No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - 1192: The Koivun Era is here + Alex Fitzpatrick interview

Episode Date: July 27, 2026

The Jackson Koivun Era has officially begun after his first PGA Tour victory at the 3M Open. We have a lot to discuss from across the world of golf this week: Koivun's breakthrough, Jenny Shin's impressive win at the Women's Scottish Open, LIV JCB, and Big Tommy Morrison's first professional victory at the Korn Ferry Tour's Evans Scholars Invitational. Plus, Alex Fitzpatrick joins the show (59:24) to chat about his season, earning his PGA Tour card, his journey through professional golf, and plenty more. Presented by Titleist. Support our Sponsors: Titleist Arccos Rhoback If you enjoyed this episode, consider joining⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ The Nest⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: No Laying Up’s community of avid golfers. Nest members help us maintain our light commercial interruptions (3 minutes of ads per 90 minutes of content) and receive access to exclusive content, discounts in the pro shop, and an annual member gift. It’s a $90 annual membership, and you can sign up or learn more at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠nolayingup.com/join⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Subscribe to the No Laying Up Newsletter here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://newsletter.nolayingup.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Subscribe to the No Laying Up Podcast channel here: https://www.youtube.com/@NoLayingUpPodcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Be the right club today. That's better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No Laying Up podcast. Sali here. Join just a two-man little gig here, two-man job.

My guy Neil is here. Hello, Mr. Neil Shoots. I'm excited to just get a little rally session in with you. Solly, toss some things over the net. See if you can hit some, hit some, hit some winners by me. Let's see what we got. Wow, it's nice that you know, you get the 3M week. You're like, what are we going to talk about?

And then we get a great story. Great. Great story unfolding. Little run of show here. We're going to go around the world of golf, of course, react to what we just witnessed at TPC Twin Cities. Then on the back half of this episode, we have an interview with Alex Fitzpatrick. Neil and I chatted with him on Friday during some downtime. So a little combination episode here, quick spin around the golf world.

Which I was very, that was an awesome conversation. Huge fan. Huge fan. Yeah, massive fan. Guys just taking a little vacay in the big city and the big apple, just hanging out. Good stuff. Easy guy to root for. Winners from around the world, Jerry Kelly wins the senior open.

Tommy Morrison wins the Evan Scholar's invitation on the Corn Ferry Tour. Lucas Herbert wins Live UK, as does Ripper G.C. Jenny Shin wins the Lady Scottish Open. Noah McLaughlin, an alternate to. the U.S. Jr. upsets Miles Russell 6 and 5 in the final to win the U.S. Jr. And of course, as we just witnessed, Jackson Coyvan

wins the 3M. He got it done gaming a setup that includes a tidalist ProV1 golf ball and 14 tidalist clubs. A few quick notes. Coivin has always been a ProV1 guy. He loves the softer feel of the ProV1, especially around the greens, and it hits his perfect flight and spin windows on full swings

as we saw all weekend. He was dialed off the tee with a GT2 driver hitting 13 of 14. fairways. He's also got the new GTS 3W prototype fairway in the bag. For irons, he's a blade guy, but he also games a T-250 utility

and a T-1004 iron. Gives him more launch and forgiveness for those approaches over 220 yards or so. Also has four Voki SM-11 wedges in the bag. He had it rolling with the Scotty Cameron Phantom 9.5 R is the same setup played by

Cameron Young and Justin Thomas. Gives him that mallet performance, but a blade like feel through the stroke. Find a fitter near year. Go to tidalist.com. Jackson Coyvan shot a back 9, 28 on Saturday, included a Bertie, Bertie Eagle finish to shoot 61, took a three-shot lead into the final round over Emiliano Grillo. Coyven kept it rolling early. Birdie's the first, birdie's the fourth, birdie's the sixth, made a big par saver from

14 feet on the 9th to go out in 32. But Scotty Shephel, you can't hold that guy down. Cannot keep that guy back? Aquaman, come, baby. Here come the waves. Made some noise. Start of the day, six-packed, but did make six birdies in these first 12 holes,

including the first three on the back nine, or the second nine, as they referred to it, at TPC Twin Cities. Coyvin was not to be denied. He birdied the par 512, had an easy two-putt birdie on the 16th, got him all the way to 25 under par, steered it in down the stretch on 17 and 18.

drained a 14-footer for par at the last to shoot a boge-free 66 to win for the first time on the PGA tour. Win by three shots, win by five shots over everybody that's not the number one player in the world, and is just third career pro start at the age of 21. That's our story, Neil. Here we go. The Coyvon era is upon us. I want to say 21 in two months. So I just saw a graphic posted by CBS on the Everything app. he's the 10th youngest winner since

on tour since 2000. Sali, can you name the others? 10th youngest since 2000? He's the 10th youngest, yes. There are, well, I'll give you a hint. There's one guy that's twice on this list, so I guess there's eight guys ahead of him. One guy that's twice.

So Spieth would have won twice. He was 19 years, 11 months. Yep. Matthew Wolfe. Matthew Wolf is fourth. There's two guys in front of him. Matthew Wolfe was 20 years old in two months Justin Thomas went at 21?

No. Recent one. Number two is recent. Maybe he was an amateur. Roy would be one of these. Rory was 20 months, 20 years old, 11 months. Aldrich Pock Geter's on that list. Gosh, this is, I should know more of these.

A recent amateur that people are going to be screaming. Yeah. Struggling with the driver these days. Kim Smith that's never Oh Nick Dunlapda There you go He's number two

Behind Spieth Okay And then I mean Come on one of your boys On this list He's on there twice Rum? No

One of my boys I got a lot of boys Global superstar Oh Tom Kim Come on 20 years old One month And then he's 20 Gosh I'm always the one

Doing the questions I know I'm not this It's a good one for you It's tough When it gets flipped on you It's way harder It is really

with the answers listed right in front of you. And then, so you got Pock Eater, you got Rory, there's two others. What kind of recent or a little bit old? One does not play on the PGA tour anymore, and one is playing good golf, but would not be considered young anymore. Jason Day wouldn't be one.

No, he didn't. No, younger than that. It would be kind of in that. Won the players, I'll tell you that. Seawoo? Was he 21? Yes, he was 21, one month. And the last one is my guy Keene.

Oh, Keene Heemann. Was 20 years old in 10 months. It's a good question. It's a really good question. So, you know, not the youngest guy to do it, but my takeaway, he looks so polished. Yeah. So polished. Elite foot action, you said it earlier on Slack, reminds you a little bit of JT and his move.

I mean, even more like hip firing going on. you know, what, like, what a golf swing that is. It looks really, really on plain normal until impact. And then it's like, God, his hips are so out front. So that's impressive. I think until, I'm including 18. The 18 was squarely, squarely drive there, drop kick on 18, but looked really solid off the tee, especially down the stretch.

A tee shot on 15, like just a low bullet was elite. It felt like just tons of control and poise there. And then the T shot into the reachable par full. par four the 16th. Just, you know, that green's massive, just kind of blow it out left. And he just executed, man. It just looked really normal. Even on 18, you know, it was a little squirrely coming home.

But to make that 15 footer downhill, I mean, that just, that was classy, man. Great fist pump. I thought his interview after he had some good things to say. You mentioned he writes on his golf glove, you know? I feel like, I mean, that seems to be legal. Can't write on your driver head as we learned in the rule. pod earlier this week, but you can, you can't write on your glove. We're going to dominate. I like these mindsets he's got. So, uh, yeah, man, I think this is good. Let's get some,

some young blood out there, winning early. We, we need to, you know, it's hard to, you know, we just mentioned Nick Dunlap. Like, there's been young winners recently, potkeeter, Tom Kim, things like that. But we, we need, you know, some of the biggest amateur names to come out recently have, you know, just not really done the job right off. It's hard. It's hard. Guys like Speed, guys like JT, guys like some of the, you know, that wave of players made it look really easy.

And we, I foolishly kind of thought the next wave of American guys would kind of do the same. And they have, they fizzled out relatively quickly. Not a lot of chances for post-type sleepers for a lot of these guys. But even some of the guys like Clanton, you know, that had great, great runs as amateurs in pro events. Once they turned pro, it just was a different. story. So what was the story going to be with Coyvin getting, you know, number one, obviously

graduate from PGA Tour U? DataGolf has him as the number one amateur since they've been tracking that since 2010, better than John Rom, better than Jordan Speeith. Plus 3.25 strokes gained. You know, I know that. I'm guessing that's compared to other college, the guys, you know, at his level, but still, like, it was, that jumps off the page when you look at the, I mean, heavy weights on that list, heavy weights only. Enormous, enormous. And so it's interesting, like, he comes out And he's not, he's super polished, like you said. He feels very well-rounded, but he's, and he's maybe a little less toolsy than some of the guys that we've seen come out with mega speed.

Like Gordon Sargent is, you know, 190 mile an hour ball speed and like what, you know, the sky's the limit for someone like him, whereas Coyvin's just like a results, dude. You know, if I was compared to like a baseball prospect, he's just putting up great numbers at every level. He doesn't have the massive exit velocities, but he has everything. He has absolutely everything you need to complete. and really, really solid iron play is what he's known for. And excellent putty.

We talked to Blaine Barber about this when we watched him at the Walker Cup. Like, what's the deal here? He's like, he just doesn't miss putts. Like, that's the whole thing with him. And it's refreshing to see someone with like, I compared to JT earlier in our slack because it was like high 170s ball speed. You know, Auburn versus Alabama, you know, all the titleless tie and all that was just kind of like a really well put together very young player that we. you know, has a massively high floor.

That's the foot action too with JT, right? Up on the toes. You brought up the kind of the five tools pretty even. I haven't, I looked at this data golf scatterplot. It's like a perfect Pentagon. So everything's just slightly outside the above average circle. It's incredible. And then you compare that.

Like you mentioned, you know, we've had some guys come out and win pot heater being an example. We just mentioned go look at his data golf scatter plot. It's not that. You know what I mean? And it's like one or two loud, loud traits. And yeah, man, just really, like, well-rounded is the way to put it. And I don't know.

It's exciting because he looks ready for, you know, for prime time here. So I got to go here next. I mean, we get him on the team? Oh, for sure. Like, first of all, presence cup, who cares? One and two, massive talent. Three, this is not shaping up to be one of the stronger teams ever. you know, five years ago we were debating

Scotty Sheffler being the 12th man on the team for the 2021 Ryder Cup team. We're not going to be having those debates at the bottom of this team. Like, he is going to be a part of the future, almost certainly, if not, might as well find out at a home president's cup

against an international team that's almost certainly not going to be able to stay in the arena with you. Like, we riot if he's not on this team. And to be clear, I thought he was on this team when the year started before he even turned professional. to take people. Before he turned professional and before, you know, he'd hit a...

You know, T.C. said that too. And he also probably said Dunlap two years ago should be on this team. He probably said that Luke Clant should be on this team. There was a tweet going around of Civen as who T.C. thought Ludwig was. Which I saw that one too. Which, and it's, you know, that's fair. But listen, I mean, we've gotten excited before. We got really excited with Matthew Wolfe.

Obviously, he decided to take his talents elsewhere. I mean, Hovlin coming out, we got super excited. Morikawa, you know, like, so I do think, though, when you look at that skill scatter chart and you see how above average he is at everything, that's, you know, that might be the difference at this age to just be so, so solid in all parts of the game. Yeah, it was, it's just really, really impressive. I had somebody hit me on the Everything app also about, is Coivan the kid?

And I said, listen, we do not toss that term around. That is not about wins and skill. That's, does he have the Riz as well? You know, there has to be like, are the people chanting his name out there? And, you know, we're monitoring it. You know, because good looking cat, I think he's, he looks the part. Like, he carries himself with a lot of confidence. I liked on 17, he hit it, I think Novela was saying he kind of hit it,

he thought he hit thin. He also was like saying, you know, go, go. And it like was 40 feet past the hole. So I don't really know. But he gave the camera a look where he was like, you know, and I like seeing a little bit of that down the stretch. And he showed a ton of emotion when he made that put on 18. So I'm hopeful that he has some charisma and some, you know, some stuff for the crowds. Because that's how you become the kid, the kid.

You need, you know, the people need to cheer you in the Coliseum. They need to be chanting your name out there. So good, you know, good start. We're heading in the right direction, but that is, that it's way too early. I say, we, everybody was so early calling Tom Kim the kid. I won't have it. We're not doing premature kid titles right now. We're not doing it.

So, so take that away. I'm with you 100% on this. The kid's got to make, make the fans feel something emotionally. The kid is rare. I don't, yeah, the kid is speed, right? That's the last one we had. That is the last one we had. That's the thing.

You know, it's like these are generational things. things. You know, the kid is a, it's not a title that always, someone's not always sitting on the kid throne. That's not how this works. Quayvon might be too polished to be the kid. Like, he's, he's been a perfect, he's a good point. He's, you know, he's had the sponsorships for quite some time. Like, he knows, he's going to, he's going to make a lot of money. It's like, does he have, does he have the Bill Shankly? Does he make the people feel good? You know what I mean? I don't feel happy. Yeah, does he make the people happy? And, and that, that cuts both ways with

with speed later on you make people feel very sad but for a while when you're young you make them feel happy baby I don't know we'll see because you do have to have the talent as well you got to you know you gotta be winning and so this is

this is a good this is a good freaking start man do you want to play I'm gonna get weird with hypotheticals here please I mean I don't know where I'm out on all of these I don't know where to hype Coyvin I don't know how excited

to get here. But like, if I was to ask, all right, is Coiven or Victor Hovlin going to have a better overall career as you're sitting here right now? Way too early to call, but like what's your, what's your, don't have to think about these at all. Just gut call. Hovland or, or Coivin, better overall career. I'm so, you know, I know Victor just won Travelers, but he feels such, like, so he's so heady that I'm worried about him. Like, I would say Coyven right now, honestly, because he doesn't. That was an easy one, I thought. Yeah, like, He doesn't seem like, I don't know, but it's, God, it's so, I mean, it's like his third start, you know, like, but he, like, I watched him for three or four holes at the U.S. Open. I mean, just handled, handled himself in a big way, made the cut, like, looked good out there.

So I don't know. It's not like it's not, it's not like he's coming out of nowhere. I mean, one, everything in college, too. So it's, I would, yeah, I'd say Coyvin right now. Yeah, I would, I would say, because I'd say, I'd say, I'd say, I'd say, I'd say, I'd say, Hovelin's underachieved a little bit compared to what he's been like since he, maybe a lot of bit since he's come out.

But next one will be harder. It was like Morikawa or Coivan. Two majors, like. I know. And I don't know if he's most certainly not done. Like that's a pretty big bar to clear. You don't think Morikawa's done winning majors. I'd be surprised if he was done winning majors.

Man, it's so tough because of that well-roundedness. You know, with Morikawa, it's like, you know, he's never going to have the advantage off The T never really putted it great. He gets hot with the putter. Hard to ignore two majors. I'm going to, I'm going to, I'll say more Kawa. But I hate it, you know, I don't like that.

It's safer, though. That eliminates like JT and speed then, I think, from the combo that have a lot more wins, more majors. But it's, you know, I don't know, man, it wouldn't surprise me if he was a four-time major winner. And I know it's your job to get hype about that. and I don't know what we'd set the actual over under at right now. He won the 3M.

And I know Scottie's in the field. And this is the part where we transitioned into TPC Twin Cities being a complete disgrace. And like, he won the 3M. And I really, really, really don't want to diminish what we just witnessed. But he made some pretty decent size mistakes on that back nine and received exactly zero punishment for it. It would be a lot more interesting to watch him try to close out a golf tournament where the golf course is actually going to present some challenges on. The 12th hole, the par five, he had a terrible second shot. He hated it.

He had a very poor bunker shot. Not a very poor. He had a below average bunker shot on the par five and then just made the birdie putt. Got away with everything. 16 just bail out way left onto one of the worst drivable force. His lag putting, though. I mean, credit to him. Sure.

His speed on the greens was elite. But so was, then you watch, you know, every putt Scotty hit was whole high and about to go in. Scott shoots, what, 63 today? and it felt like he was stuck in neutral on the back line. Like, that's, I don't know if that's a good sign. It was very undramatic down the stretch. It was like, all right, 17, dude, just like literally hit it anywhere. He hits a bad shot.

It goes on the green. Those greens are huge, man. They got to be smaller if they're going to actually challenge the best players in the world. And then, yeah, bad shot, bad approach into 18 as well after a bad T shot and a layup. And it, you know, bad T shot. I mean, good Lord. That thing went 249 off the T. took like a three inch divot before he hit the ball ends up in the fairway uh you know good on him

for recovering but you know what's funny though i do have to say i do have to say this like it's amazing that you know you got probably i don't know how many guys were at minus 20 let's see uh one two three four five six guys minus 20 or better uh just going jacusto on this place how easy it is for them and how scary that course looks for me as a viewer. You know what I'm watching with my mom. She's she's like, oh my God, that whole looks so hard. You know, the 17th. It's like 200 yards over water.

I'm like, you know, it's crazy, right? But he's 25 under par. It's just like something's not. I do need to stand back from like I watch golf every week. The shot value stuff. I completely hear what you're saying. But I'm also like, God, I would probably shoot 83 out there. You know, like I don't, I still don't understand.

These guys are just so freaking good, man. Because that, that course looks terrifying. I felt the same way at Dural when Cam Young fought apart at the Cadillac. I'm like, are you kidding me? Like this looks, it looks so hard. And it's just like, yeah, the water doesn't even exist for these guys. They, you know, Scott, he missed, I think it was like 14 or 15. He missed it left in the ruffed.

And they're like, oh, he's never going to get it close from there and just, you know, gets it out to like 20 feet like basically lips out the putt it's like man it's like nothing you could do they're just too good well that golf course does not present questions for the top level like this is even the top level of PJ tour golf this is the challenger

series of PJ tour golf and it just doesn't it's not nearly enough consequence to the to the shots it makes for an very uninteresting watch Thursday to Sunday and very thankful that we had a very uplifting story to start the show with because the rest of the golf watching this week it's just It is, it's wild this little back-to-back stretch on the PGA tour during, you know, not a lot else going on in the summer.

This is kind of why we need this championship series of like, we're going to have a more intense, tighter season that's only going to have six or seven down weeks in it where, you know, we're going to get a challenger event like this. But there's not going to be this little, you know, massive dip in the sports calendar late July into early August as of 2028. So it'll be a welcome change. I was going to look up how, I mean, that water on 17, let's see. There are, how many balls do you think went in the water this weekend on that 17th hole that looks so scary to you? To my mom. I mean, I would say the water course looks scary. I would say three balls went in the water for the whole weekend.

Yes. Two. Oh, today. That's like, it's not good enough. We're not challenging these guys. That's not, it's just way too comfortable. This is like the worst of the PGA tour, I think. Well, I saw a quote bounce floating around and like I read a,

I can't remember which newsletter. Golf Newsletters was like before, it was saying the tournament founder Hollis Kavner, I think he's like the tournament director, gave a brutally honest description of how the organizers envisioned the course playing. We want birdies and train wrecks. It's like, well, you got the birdies. We just forgot about the train.

We're not, I don't, I'm not seeing the, train wreck part. So that whole barely played over par for the week at a 200 yard par 3 over water just lets you bail I don't know. And it's just that on repeat, man.

And like 16 is just like not moving the tee up on that hole just makes it a completely thoughtless just hit it up near the green. The scoring average on that hole today was almost 3.4 which is actually one of the harder times when they've moved it up.

but yeah there was four total bogeys on suppose seven total bogeys the entire weekend on the 16th hole um on what's supposed to be a risk reward drivable part four it well 16 17 and 18 it's just no one's going backwards because they can all there's just such obvious bailouts on all of those those holes even it's like yes there's this big there's this big penalty area don't hit it in there it's like yeah there's like 50 yards of of uh of green to hit but here's here's i'm building up to this where a future world so i i i get why the 3M would set it up this way or why this event would be set up this way in terms of you want to recruit players to come play in it the more simple it sets up like I get there's also

the argument of you know the better players want it to play harder if it's going to be worth their time and their ability to be separate and not have it be a piece of shit putting contest but in a future world where it's like hey you play the championship series and you play the challenger series and you don't have you don't get to pick and choose your events yeah you can skip events if you want to within your own calendar but you have to do less pandering two players about the course setup can we see a world where some of these golf courses play more challenging and not being afraid of beating the guys up because they kind of don't have a choice as to where they're going to be playing would be a hope i would come out of this next division right because i think that is

the argument as to why i would play this easy and simple and thoughtless um but i just don't think that's the best thing for your product as you presented on television because I'm honestly being kind about it to this point. It's this and Craig Ranch that I think are like the two weakest spots on the PJ Tor calendar. Yeah. I just, I think, first off, I will say 3M like adhesives and things are sick. So like 3M. I actually like their branding at the tournament too. See, I don't like the red. I was going to say I don't. I think it. Yeah, that's what I mean. I don't like it. Yeah. No, well, you like the red. You feel like it do. It's like, I see what you're after here. I guess it fits this event, but it doesn't feel, I mean, it doesn't feel elegant, I guess. It's just so it's, I thought it was, it's too much. I mean, got massive build out, though. Didn't feel like we were filling all that hospitality, but except for the 15th hole. 15th hole was like absolutely empty and I don't really quite. No, that's what I'm saying. I felt like everything was empty. Even when they let the ropes down, it didn't feel like, you know, the mass of humanity we're looking for out there. Everybody's watching the lift highlights that must be. Let me go down the, the, the, the, the, the, the,

board for a minute in honor of Mr. T.C. Hedecki chips it for Eagle. Before we do that, I would say, like, if you were, like, to go play it, I think it would be relative, you know, there's other courses where this might pay off a little bit better. Like, you would hear, you know, when you watch that on TV, when you watch the women's Scottish open on TV, like, you hear the same thing over and over again. Every shot becomes a decision. That's, that's why I have become such a huge fan of the Arcoe Smart Laser. And I'm sure you are as well. It's the only range finder that gives you a true plays-like distance by automatically adjusting for the real-time weather, including the wind, temperature, humidity, and altitude, not just the slope.

See, you got the 17-T, Neil, and it just would have told you to hit 6 iron right in the middle of the green. It would have been no problem. Arcos tell me a lot of stuff right now, a lot of good stuff to work on. Any range finder can tell you it's 162 yards. The real question is, what does it actually play like today? That is where the smart laser gives you an edge. It is just, it's really cool. It's just one piece of what Arcos has built that. I think. is quite amazing and really, really impressive. I've been using the new Arcos app for the last several weeks.

It is completely changed the experience. When I go sneak in nine holes after the kids go down, I grab the Arcos, man. I want the data. I got to keep stuff in this thing full of data, and you keep learning from it. It used to do just like a great job of capturing the rounds and show me where I was losing shots,

but now it is actually telling you how to get better. It gives you personalized practice plans, pre-round warm-ups built around your game, AI-powered round summaries, and you can see the strokes gain on every individual shot. It's got your own PGA Tour Performance Team in your pocket. That's really what Arcos is becoming. It's not just tracking your game anymore.

It's helping you understand exactly where to focus so you can actually improve. And if you haven't checked it out, Arcosgolf.com, ARCCOSGolf.com, ARCC-O-Sgolf.com, ARCCCGolf.com, ARCCCGELF.com, OSGELF,com,000, will get you 15% off. It is. The new app's great. A lot of, you can get lost in there looking at your game and what to work on. I've just been chipping away at it, man. It's like I made it to the point where my iron play became my worst part. And it was like, I needed to make a change of some kind.

And we just made that change. And I think we're on our way back. It just is it exciting. It spits it right in your face. It's great. So I'm sorry. You want to go down the board. I do.

Yeah, Hadecki, good showing from him. T3 chips in for Eagle for a 64 today. Good to see him back bouncing around. We talked a little bit about Scotty. He was second. Yeah, what's wrong with Scotty? You know, that's shoot 63 today. It comes up short.

That'll be the narrative. But it does seem like, though, if I'm being serious here, anecdotal, but it feels like one round or even one nine a week, it has been costing Scotty this year. I remember that at Pebble. He shot, I think, two over on the back nine Friday. kind of basically cost them the tournament. So otherwise, pretty good stuff.

Let's see, Emiliano Grillo, three putts, 18 to finish tied for seventh. That ties his best finish of the year. He also had a T7 at Valspar. Harmon, you know, good showing, flipped off the Cameron's scoring after the round, which I got a nice kick out of. Another good finish for Ben Coles. He's ranking before this week was 100 in the FedEx Cup list. So he's kind of late bloomer showing some form this year.

And another guy, good friend, Zach Blair. That's a T-13, I believe, this week. Let me confirm that. Yeah, T-13. He's minus 16, falling up a T-8, a T-9, a T-32 at the U.S. Open. Zach's playing some really good golf, man. That's good stuff.

Maybe the worst golf he played this week was at the 3M. He shot a 58 at White Bear Yacht Club earlier this week. with a bogey. Did he really? Yeah, you don't see that? I didn't see that. Someone was not in Slack this week. Yeah, he shot a 58 at White Bear Yacht Club with a bogey.

Eish. Yeah. And then, of course, Michael Kim, 69, 59. You heard that correct? 7069. So a bit of an outlier around there on Friday for Michael Kim. 14th or 15th, 59? I think 16th.

And I had a little, a little, little, Can you, how many, how many of the 59s can you name? Because I, I, I looked this up and I was going to spring this on you. You got me earlier, so I'll come back at you. Let's go, we'll go Jake Knapp. Is that Jake Knapp twice? Just once. Just once.

That was round one of the cognizant classic. That's the most recent one before Michael Kim. Obviously, Furek. We'll count the 58 with Furek. And the 59 for Furek. And the 50, yeah, of course, of course. A bit of a Compton situation there. Did Ben Griffin shoot 59?

Ben Griffin has not. I don't know. I think that's all I can do right now. Not a good joke for me. Your best. Al Guyberger was the first. Guy Berger, sure. 77.

Chip Beck did it in 91. David Duval did in the final round. That's awful. In 99. I froze. I froze. So only three in PJ tour history from 2009 and prior. Okay. Since 2010, Paul Goido shot 59 at the John Deere.

Stuart Appleby shot 59 at the Greenbrier that year. Furek shot 59 at the BMW Championship. J.T. shot 59 at Sony Open in 2017. Hadwin shot a 59 at the career builder in 2017. Snedeker shot 59 in the first round of the Wyndham. In 18, Kevin Chappell shot 59 at the Greenbrier in 2019. Scotty Sheffler shot a 59 at the Northern Trust in round two. in 2020. Cameron Young shot one in 2024, round three of the travelers.

Hayden Springer shot one at the John Deere in 2024, and then we have the Jake Knapp and Michael Kim once in the last two years. So, of the 16 rounds of 59 or better that have happened on the PGA tour, 13 of them have happened since 2010. But I

don't know what I would owe that to. It must be, yeah, I don't know what that could possibly, one of the what that could be. I mean, it is, you know, a mix of dudes and randos, but it's not, it's honestly not like a, the, it doesn't feel like it's the epidemic. It doesn't feel like it's picked up pace in the last five years. Do you think that, like it picked up pace in the last 10 to 15. You know what I mean by that?

I mean, there's been four in the last three years. I was most definitely joking. It's just, oh, okay. Well, I'm just thinking about it. Like, I mean, there's been. one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine since 2017, ten since 2016. So like one a year, basically, in the last year, after there being, you know, three in the history of the PJ tour up to 2009. I mean, a true Mark Jackson, what happened to the game I love, man?

You know, there you have it. It's crazy. And I just want to raise my, I'm completely embarrassed by how much I froze there. It's hard. It is hard. Yeah. I mean, come on. Chip Beck.

I know all those. What are you doing, man? What are we doing? Like, I stink. If we were sitting around drinking beers, you would have crushed that. No, I know. My podcast, my arcose is like, that's like, you're, you got to work on your, you know, your lag putting on that one. That's awful.

I was going to maybe skip that, but after you made me look silly earlier, I had to, had to spring that pack on you. Coyvin moves up to 70th in the FedEx Cup with the wins. I still got some work to do to get into the playoffs. but as it stands now does not look like that's going to be a problem for him. Top 70, of course, make the playoffs. Do you see Lucas Glover, the Lucas Glover incident today? I did. I did.

It seemed like a lot of people were thinking it was for aim point. Yeah, the announcers did not do him any favors with this of them saying that it was aim point related. But he holds a putt, walks over to the fringe, takes his shoes off to go over and get the ball out of the hole. comes back. Max Graisman who is playing with looks very confused as it's all happening. We later got word. He commented on it later and later got word from several other players that there are people in the group, at least one person in the group behind him, complaining about the spike marks being left behind from his metal spikes, which you are, of course, allowed to repair.

So that was his way of protesting of, I don't know how I'm supposed to walk to the hole and get my ball if I'm wearing metal spikes. Not the only guy that wears metal spikes. I don't tour either, but that was... He's having a good time. He was having a little bit of a little. fun with it. But he was taking heat. I saw everybody saying it was an aim point and then he's taking heap. So I don't think the guy, you know, the guy using the long putter

should be complaining about an end point. I'm like, here we go. And just note out there, disclaimer, if somebody's using the long putter that does not mean they're anchoring, especially not Lucas Glover, who's not even close to anchoring. We don't have to pretend like everybody that uses the long

putter is anchoring. So one last thing I had. As I was looking at this, the defending champion of this upcoming tournament this coming week at the rocket is of course Alder's pot-geeter. If I was to say that something statistically relevant in the history of the game is potentially going to happen this year and it's Alder's Pot-Gueger, Neil, do you wonder what that might be?

It's not a difficult one to figure out here, but what do you think it might be? Statistically relevant in the game, he's got something to do with him hitting the ball far. again I'm bringing this up because the constant argument for not rolling the ball back or changing equipment related stuff is that people love the long ball people love distance Aldous Pocket Eater is going to break the all-time driving distance record on the PGA tour and no one cares no one no one cares nobody knows nobody knows no one cares I thought you were going to say that this is the year that the 313 challenge no it might be it's it might be he's averaging 300 130 yards this year on the PGA tour. Do you know when the last time that record was broken? Last year. It was 2023.

It was Roy McElroy. Rory's year, this year, will be the second longest year ever. So Roy's going to break his own record that he set three years ago, but he's not even going to hold the title. It's going to be a Sammy Sosa situation where he's going to hit 66 homers, but McGuire's going to hit 70. What was Rory's record in 23? Like 326 or something like that, and where he's like 328.

now in Pock Eaters like 3.30. But okay. It's just funny that like nobody, nobody actually care. Like everybody, you know, the claim is that people love the long ball and no one actually cares about what should be a record. Just because they know it means nothing,

just because it goes up and up and up every year. So. Um, a lot of golf left. Maybe that, maybe. Oh, he's going to run it up in Detroit where you could just wail on track. He knows.

Maybe it gets hurt, you know. He might get. The own run rates is still, it's still odd, man. Boys of summer. Get hurt by workout your benefit. You know, you could just, it's like the A on Risk Reward Challenge. If you had the lead, it paid well to just skip events.

That's true. We just stay where it is. You're right. Ladies Scottish was at Dun Donald this past week. Jenny Shin, she took a five-shot lead into the final round. She opened 66, 6771. The wind was whipping today, though. It made for some really good viewing early.

You know, they had the ear muffs out this week that, you know, They had the tooks on, tokes, whatever the Canadians call it, the beanies. And it looked like it was going to get interesting. She made three bogeys to cut the lead down to just three when they reached the ninth. But she birdied the 10th and the 12th, put her back to 11 under. Two late bogeys did not play into the final result. She won by two over A. A. Lim Kim, who shot a 68 in the final round compared to Ginny Shin, 75.

That was an excellent, excellent round of golf. But she won by one by two shots over A. Lim Kim. and a little appetizer. But Donald, not the best links course, not my favorite links course, but it was as baked out as I've seen it before. And it definitely brought out a lot of features in that golf course

and made it less of a, you know, kind of modern links adaptation that we kind of get with both Scottish Open courses. It just similar to Renaissance this past year, like when it gets that firm, kind of these links interpretive courses get at least a little bit more lynxy and more interesting.

So it was a good view. I had it on mute watching making breakfast, and it looked good. They had some good drone shots, and being near the water helps it. You know, it was, it looked good. The fairways did look burnt out and good color contrast on the, on the TV. And it's good. I mean, I don't know if it's sky or if it's World Feed or whatever it was, but it was not a Golf Channel production, and it was very clear just this step up in everything. Well, we really had the, it was on Golf Channel, but they had the CNBC logo.

in the bottom left corner. So I don't know. I had it on CNBC this one. Or was it on? Maybe I just, it was, you know, sometimes YouTube TV just, you know, pick the golf. And so I assumed it was golf channel. It was. Yeah.

Anytime you can see the picture and picture reaction, like, which requires just a little bit of extra effort, you know it's not golf channel. Sure. So it's, they just pipe that in. And just, it's a fun vibe. I, look, I enjoy watching all kinds of golf on that side of the world. She has, um, Shane Madeline's caddy. I believe so.

On the bag, I think I think I saw that too. Because I know Madeline is, has she, I know she's pregnant. I don't know if she's, I have not her. I mean, yeah, she was very pregnant at the U.S. Women's Open quite recent. She was seven months pregnant at the U.S. Women's Open. So she's, it's probably about that time for her. If it was not already, I'm not sure. I haven't heard the updates there.

Well, shout out to Shane. Good work. Yeah. Great, great dude, easy guy to root for. But that and like, you've seen your open this week. Was it Glen Eagles, the King course there? Like, there was some funky assholes on that course. That made for some fun viewing as well. I just, I can't get enough.

Roll right into AIG Women's Open this coming week. We're going to have a preview out this Tuesday ahead of the final major championship of the year. That is going to be at Royal Live them and St. Ann's and should be awesome. This is one I've had to circle. Jerry Kelly won the senior open. Our friend Lauren Cogman finished T5. Most certainly a notable. She is a past champion of the.

this event. Nellie Corna T-16 finished this week. Not the most competitive. Saving it, man. Come on. Next week. Big one. Come on. Dude, I just, I don't think she's Lynx tough. I'm sorry. That famous last words, and I'll save that for Tuesday. I just watch her out there and it looks like it just doesn't, you know, if she's not Evian tough, like she doesn't like the Evian, she doesn't like the bounces of the Evian. I'm like, well, if that's the case, I just don't know if if Links is for you. I don't know what the weather forecast looks like for living. We'll get into all that on Tuesday.

But I don't know. I just, I'm not really buying it right now. Did you see the Charlie Hull incident? I did. The de-greening. Correct. I did see that.

And the, I saw a comment that that was a great opportunity for her to, you know, which everybody can do at any time to just take the stroke and distance. That was your, rules expert now. I'm going to ask you what she should have at any point you don't have if you just don't like your drive you still find it you can just say now I'm going to play another one from right here and take your take your penalty and go she could have probably would have been better off doing that

in hindsight she would have it was a it was a dicey hole location on that hole on Thursday she putted it off the green and then ended up taking a nine as she kept chipping it up the hill and rolling back to her feet she could have elected to take an unplayable and go right back to where she hit that putt. It would have effectively been a two-shot penalty. She was putting for birdie. It would have been a bogey put, and she could have lagged up there and made double.

She ended up making a nine, though. But I'm sure she didn't think she was going to chip back to her feet multiple times. So it was a little in hindsight thing. But this option was also out there for Phil Mickelson famously at the 2018, US Open at Chinicock when he ran and hit a moving ball. And then try to convince us that that was the right strategy when in reality he could have just let the ball finish rolling and then take the unplayable and replay the shot.

So, Neil, it was not a great week for the Live golf tour, if you're ready to get to this part, this portion of the show. Where do you want to start with the bad news for Liv? Because there was a lot of it this week. I don't know. Should we start with the lawsuits? You want to start there? We can definitely do that. A couple lawsuits.

Live was sued over unpaid bills for its broadcast technology, Canadian technology company, Moby Systems. sued live for roughly $1.13 million, alleging $120,000 in unpaid licensing fees, 104,000 unpaid usage fees, 209,000 in lost revenue after Liv stopped using the companies any shot anytime broadcast product. Sorry, I did not note where I got that from news-wise. I can find that for you and give proper credit on that one. That's one thing. There's a Stinger lawsuit as well.

We work with Stinger. Shout out to our hitters at Stinger. Lewis in the game. This is good stuff. The Golf T Company Stinger Golf sued live over its use of Stinger G.C. They sought $100 million, which is... Which is awesome. If they're going to claim these franchises are worth billions,

no, if they're going to claim they're worth billions, you should absolutely sue them for $100 billion. Live then rename the South African team, the Southern Guards this year. and the party settled for $1 million. They said, quote, is a compromise based on what we viewed as an eminent bankruptcy. And just shout of the Stinger. They make the golf tees you find in the no laying up pro shop. Go buy something.

Great teas. Fantastic teas. And, you know, they have a right to that name. I love it. I think that's front office sports that I got that from in the sports business journal over the unpaid, unpaid fees there, if I have that right. I'd say the most significant news, Neil, the Asian tour is out. This was from Evan Priest and Joel Beal at Golf Digest.

The Asian tour is set to realign with the DP World Tour and the PGA Tour in a formal partnership, underlined by pathways and co-sanction tournaments, a move that it means it will no longer act as LiveGolf's important second tier. The Asian Tour CEO, Chomint, I hope I'm saying that right, told Golf Digest that he had to consider the longevity. of pathways for its members given the uncertain future of live. And he said, quote, but given the circumstances now, we had to look at other options. Left unsaid in this partnership, this is from the article, left unsaid in the partnership

are the ramifications to live golf. Multiple sources have confirmed a golf digest. The national opens on the Asian tour were a part of the league's proposals as it was seeking new investors. However, due to its new PGA Tour, TEP World Tour Alliance, the Asian Tour and its events can no longer be offered as part of a theoretical live package, significantly reducing lives inventory. It's tough.

I mean, Scott O'Neill was going around everywhere talking about national opens. We flagged this at the time when he said it that was like they don't have the national opens. I don't know what they're referring to here. I don't know how they're pitching this. The ones they had, they have now lost in a really, really weak state. I believe this was from Aiman Lynch's article. they might be trying to reboot the Welsh Open, which hasn't been held since 2022, and add that as one of the events.

But, man, just a, basically the seven week period they had to negotiate with all these new investors, would have included whatever they have with the Asian tour. And this happened quickly. This happened within the last week, really, this quick turnover to the Asian tour, ditching live golf. And whatever they were proposing to these investors now has to be. change because they don't have the Asian tour anymore. Just a massive, massive, massive L.

That's business, man. It happens. It is noted that the new agreement between the three tours is highlighted by the addition of at least two co-sanctioned events between the Asian tour and the DP World Tour for the 2007, 2007, 2008, and 2029 seasons. So I would just say, like, does this put lives existence in question? It was easy to picture a dumbed down version of next year. You know, maybe it's five events plus five team events.

And technically you'll count the, you know, the Asian tour events as kind of part of of live circuit or whatever it might be. But like, does this seriously bring into question is live golf going to exist in any form next year? For sure. I mean, I just don't know like what you're investing in at this point. Because then you get the investors. They're like, okay, I'm going to get into.

for as little as I can so then the purse money dries up and then I mean I kind of think there's some stuff in these contracts of like they're not going to be able to pay the you know what ROMs owed and so then like that naturally leads to I would guess like bankruptcy you know where it's like okay well now I'm insolvent because like I'm you know you can't convince and I guess it's down to two investors to basically um you know cover the bill is what it sounds like plus not having Bryson under contract. Yeah. Yeah.

I couldn't see it working out positively before, and that was before a really, really, really tough week because we're not done on the news front. This is from Ben Parsons at today's golfer, the live finale in Michigan, very much in question. Martin Kimer said it's about a 5% chance that it happens. That's coming from a league club player. Yeah, that's the first time a player's not lied to us. Well, yeah, said anything, really. I mean, you know, because I saw some quotes from ROM, like, at the press conference in London. And he's like, yeah, there's a lot happening behind the scenes.

You know, like, I'm not going to tell you guys, but a lot, you know, they've all been very coy. This feels pretty direct here. Like, five percent is a, like, that's a statement. It's supposed to be a $40 million purse involved in that one. Kimer said it's a bit sad because we all invested in this year. And I'm not meeting financially. So we invested time, emotions, hopes, the vision. And if it would fail that, that way.

the way it failed now because we've been told in February we are fully funded until 2031 and two months later it all goes down it would be a shame the call is that the call's coming from inside the house now you know what I mean like that's a that's quite a quote from Kimer

that's the first time I can remember one of the live players saying something like that yeah I mean it's it's almost like it was a massively unsustainable business model and once the pull the plug from Piff of the never ending faucet of money. It's almost like it couldn't stay on its own, which is, I

just feel like I heard that somewhere before. But anyways, that's not what tonight is. We're not going there yet. We are saving it. We are saving it. We're not done with the news, though. Golf Digest reported Thursday that inquiries from live players to the DP World Tour about 2027 have increased

significantly. Also of note flushing it. Also reported that seven live players told the account they intend to leave after this season, even if Liv secures funding. So we've now reached the portion where flushing it is reporting negative news on Live golf. Sounds like those seven players are mobbing it up. Final few notes,

Liv is reportedly down to two investors. Again, this was kind of before, I think the Asian tour news drop at bunker.co.uker. uk reported that the league narrowed a ton down to the two investors and noted that the investor interest is high and the league's top management is confident, which I believe we've heard before. So yeah, I'd love to

I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the In the pitch meeting Especially after the Asian tour news Like what is that you know Because the only thing I can think of that would be No, we're going to roll it up with Bryson's YouTube presence It was like about the only thing of value you could You could kind of put out there

That would make you know That could generate revenues that you know To pay the I just Yeah you're going to take away such prize money from these players They're all going to bounce man man. I just don't know how you could convince an investor anything else is going to happen. How could you convince an investor that all that's going to happen, anything other than this,

they're going to pay to sunset these contracts and then they're all going to bounce. You have no security if you're the investor. I don't, I just, I don't understand how it's possible. I think you are, you are in the best hope. The pitch would be is this is a post-care career non-champions tour circuit for Ian Poulter and Lee Westwood and Martin Kimer to play golf on, that it's no longer Bryson, Rom, Patton, Neiman, any real current players. But you can play for some good money and you can play team golf. Like that's the thing that you're playing over here and it's not grinding out cuts solo and trying to play Corn Ferry Tour to get status back.

Like we'll put up some decent money. It's not live golf money, but it's decent money. an alternate way of playing. You lose your OWGR's gone. Pathways to majors are definitely gone. But if you want to come play kind of circus golf over here, we're going to do this. That's the best pitch at this point. Because, I mean, bankruptcy means these players are let out of their contracts. Rom's gone. And he's back on the DP World Tour almost immediately, I would assume. Basically, all this guy's going to be DP World Tour guys as of next year. So that's not tonight. We're not, we're not dancing on the

grave tonight, Neil, we are holding and waiting. I want to give a shout to Ben Kohler. There's a lot of chatter online. I just thought he had a really, really solid summary of things this past week on the everything app. He said, Asian tour partnering with PGA tour and DP World Tour makes it appear. We're going back to where we were pre-lived, but with potentially a better PGA tour, a better DP World Tour, better connection between them, and even possibly a more global focus

where national opens are elevated further. said no doubt live disrupted things and inadvertently provoked improvements to establish tours but i would liken this to being hit by a speeding car surviving and then having a newfound love for life i don't think you'd go and thank the driver uh well said i was really the only part i disagree with a little bit is i'd love and maybe you could help me with this how this better pGA tour you know adults and you know running things i like the direction they're heading with the two tracks all that how is it a better pga tour you know adults and you know running things i like the direction they're heading with the two tracks all that how is it a better or DP World Tour. Like, you do you know what I mean? Like, I feel like the DP World Tour has gotten kind of screwed over the past 10, 20 years. Like the best 10 guys are coming over to play on the PGA Tour. It's like, oh, like the reward for playing good on the DP World Tour is that your best guys leave, basically. Yeah.

So I don't know about that part. It is, I would say this. Like, without the backing of the PGA Tour, the DP World Tour was in trouble. And you're going to lose the top guys over to a tour that. puts out more money anyways, right? Guys are doing that. You know, Justin Rose, Luke Donald, Graham McDowell, Lee Westwood, Sergio Garcia, like all of the top players, once the Tiger Money hit the PGA tour, once it took off,

that's where the Europeans played golf. And they did support the DP World Tour, but less and less as the years went on and the money kept going up on the PGA tour. They can't compete from a corporate standpoint, but with America. Like, that's just been proven out at this point. So the argument here would basically be like, It was that way before Liv, and it's just going to be a better version of that after Live. It's that.

And the, yes, you're getting financial backing from the PGA Tour. They're undermining some, you know, underpinning some purses there. It's in the PJ Tour's best interest to have a solid DP World Tour or European Tour as well. And have that be a feeder is a good thing. And I asked Keith Pelley about this when he was on the podcast of like, all right, what's the reputation of DP World Tour being a feeder? Look, we're a member organization and an offering we have to our members is a pathway to play for the massive money on the PGA tour. And like I get in theory that that weakens our tour and on the surface like just looks like that we're just feeding them and in a way we are. And I'm paraphrasing this of course.

But at the same time, like that is a great membership offer of yeah, you know, you play well on this tour. You support this tour for a year. And one of the top 10 best players, you will have access. to the riches of the PGA tour. And that was, he said there's a kind of a no-brainer option when presented. Because like, look, the alternative was they could have partnered with Piff and they could have gone that route. And like, I think they were able to see around the corner of like, I don't think this is

the most stable. Yeah. Is Piff going to be funding the DP World Tour in 50 years? Like, what's more likely that or an alliance with the PGA tour as being something long lasting and like kind of hard to fault where that has netted out? and you know that that that's my that's my that's my 10th that's good that's i i've just yeah that's a good overview and because i think like yeah you wish for the heyday of the of the of the european tour days of the sevi and the longer and faldo and montgomery he's not walking through

that door no it's that that world's not coming back without 20 million dollar purses which just isn't happening in europe i'm sorry it's just not so great man's not walking through that that's not happening that's not happening Lucas Herbert did win by six shots today. He shot 30 under par. Ripper also won the team competition as well. So that's about all I have. They hot, Lucas.

From Liv, UK. Yeah, I mean, it was not that much of a birdie fest. Like, he went and absolutely beat people over the head this past week. Other, you know, we mentioned Tommy Morrison won on the Corn Ferry Tour. He has been absolutely mowing people down to start his Corn Ferry Tour as well. had a T-10 in his first pro start, then finished T5 at the Memorial Health and was runner-up the Blue Championship and now won the Evans Scholars this past week just outside of Chicago. Already up to eighth on the points list and essentially assured a PGA tour card for next year.

That's about all I had in the notebook. As mentioned, the AIG Women's Open is on the ladies circuit this coming week while the Rocket Classic on the PGA Tour. Utah Bank Championship on the Corn Ferry Tour, Liv is off and then Bedminster. In my neighborhood, baby. Are you going to go? I was thinking about it. It's on my calendar.

I mean, it's 15 minutes away. I don't know. I'm kind of like, I don't know if they're going to have the tournament. I think they're having, I think they're very competent they're having that one. It sounds like Indianapolis is, is, is going to buy a tig. Go see what's up. See if you get credentialed. See if they try to shut you out.

I don't want the security following me around. Keep kidding me? Come on, man. I don't, I don't, I mean, that's bad. Can they afford security anymore? Are they going to have security? I'm going to flip my facial hair, get something cooking. They won't know, wait, they won't know what to look for in two weeks.

At Mexico, they were hunting Brody down. I'd be careful off there. If you haven't, I would check out our rules podcast from this past Tuesday. Past Wednesday, I guess it went out. We had Craig Winter on from the USGA. We actually recorded this ahead of the U.S. Open, sorry, ahead of the Open Championship before there was a lot of rules-related stuff in there. But Neil and I peppered. talk about those ruling.

We did not those specific examples of those issues. It was very well-timed, if I may say. So I would go go check that one out. It's a really interesting list. And we will have Craig back on as well because he's just excellent at explaining the rules to do our rules experts here. I mean, I feel like I understand them a lot better. I do too. You know, I was just living in a pre-2019 world.

I mean, I've just been. Yeah. Yeah, I still just need you to stop weighing in on them because even just. Even you saying that makes me second-guess rules again. We just, you know, we wind each other up on it. I really, really don't like it. We're going to have a preview, as mentioned, for the AIG Women's Open. We'll also be live next Sunday after the Rocket Classic raps.

I know the AIG Women's Open is going to end earlier, but we're going to wait until that one wraps and we're going to do a live show as well. Before we get to Alex Fitzpatrick, summer golf season is here. Our closets are looking a lot like the Roeback website right now. First up, the Roeback lightweight looper. This is exactly what you need when hot weather golf hits. It's got the comfort of a gym short. It looks like a proper golf short though.

It's got a stretch waistband. It's got belt loops, got a real button and fly. It's super lightweight. If you struggle with swamp ass, these are for you. They've got several colors and you're not going to find a bad one. Second, the Roback Tailwind Polo for everyday wear. I find myself wearing it all the time. I'm not usually a polo around the house guy, but it's very comfortable.

It's soft. It's clean. lightweight. You just throw it on and immediately feel. refreshed. Finally, it's swim season. The pools open, Neil, medley swim trunk. The liner is great. It makes you actually want to wear it, makes you actually want to put it to use. The designs are great as well. They got pockets. Just a quality all around swimsuit, had it on. Those swimsuit, you can work out in those.

I mean, the liner is not the mesh bathing suit of yester years. Good quality bathing suits. I'm a big fan of the medley swim trunks. Roeback.com, R-H-O-B-C-com, and code N-LU will get you 20 percent. off your first order through the end of the week. Check out Roeback. Stop laying up. Code NLU, rowback.com. Here is our chat with Alex Fitzpatrick.

Crack on, Neil. Cheers. So two weeks off. What do we do with the little time off? You know, the club's going away for a while. Are you just going to, you know, keep playing to keep riding out this hot streak? I'm curious out what the thought process is here. The hot street kind of came to an end when I was back in Europe.

So that was a little frustrating. But no, I've got two weeks off. off here, super excited to put the clubs away. So, yeah, I'll be taking a break and, yeah, allowing the clubs to have a rest for a change. Yeah, that's what we brought you in for. We want to talk about the Scottish show, but we want to talk about the Open Championship. Nothing else this year. Those are the two things we want to go shot by shot, kind of, if you don't mind taking us through

all that. Ideally not, but that's okay. That's what you want. You're a household name now in the world of golf. How has life changed in the last, just I guess, few months. I would say last year, but really in the last few months. Yeah, it's been crazy. I can't lie. Just every aspect of my life has changed. And I think, you know, every time I look back at it, it's like, wow, I can't believe, you know, how different it was than three months ago.

From kind of traveling all over the world to playing on DP and to suddenly like playing full-time in the U.S. with all the best plays in the world. And at the moment, I'm trying to find out. the house in Florida and just being over here full time. Like I absolutely love it over here. You know, we came, me and my family used to come here quite a lot as a kid. And I went to college at Wake Forest for four years. And yeah, I have, this is the place I love to be. And I'm thankful that I'm over here now.

Alex, if we go back like last six, nine months, can you pick a moment? I mean, Zurich would be an obvious answer. But is there something before that where you're like, it's starting to click, like a turning point? I would say October last year I changed coach strictly because I didn't get enough contact time with my old coach He was in the States

And I was at home in Europe And I just didn't get enough time with someone And I think that was kind of the missing piece Was having someone that I can see more often And yeah me and my brother did a switcheroo And he had my coach And I had his So it just I would say it clicked from then

but it's funny, I played South Africa in March, start of March, and I was in contention with like five or six holes to go, and it didn't happen. And, you know, I remember thinking to myself, like, I've had a few chances now, will it ever, will it ever happen for me? Two weeks later it did. So it was, yeah, it's been so surreal,

but I would say kind of changing coach was the big turning point for me. I feel like this has been kind of an underreported thing. It's like a wife swap here, Like a coach swap year. I've never heard of that of just like, hey, you know, was he looking to make a change specifically? And was it just like a convenience thing, a coincidence that you ended up swapping? Or was that kind of... Who's idea?

Who's idea? So you proposed that. It was actually, I mean, it's actually a sad story. My coach's, well, my brother's coach at the time, his wife wasn't very well. He couldn't travel back. He couldn't travel to America. He would stay back home in England. And my coach, Mark Blackburn, was full-time in the,

his full-time in the state. So it was basically a case of, well, my brother can't see Mike Walker is my coach now because he's obviously at home in Europe and I couldn't really see Mark because he was in the state. So it was like, well, who do we trust as coaches? Who are the people that we're close to and we, you know, we value and both of them. We think are great people and great coaches. And it was like, well, maybe we try this where I see Mike and you see Mark and see how that goes.

it was kind of, I would say, instant feedback. I think I finished, I think I finished ninth in my first tournament with Mike at the Spanish the Spanish Open. And I think my brother played really well somewhere. And then that was kind of it. It was kind of lift off from there, really, which is, yeah, crazy to think about all it was just, was that, was that like you and Matt, like on a phone call, like venting to each other? Like, yeah, my game sucks, right?

Me too, bet you. It was, it was, we didn't have a phone call, but it was. was like, well, my game sucks and your game sucks, how are we going to get out of this? So, yeah, that was the answer. And, you know, I'm thankful that we, that's the approach we went down. And what, what's changing the golf swing? Like, walk me through that, like, what's the swing feel or, you know, what's the improvement you made over the last nine months?

Yeah, so my, my tendencies have always been my left arm kind of gets out away from my body. It used to lean into kind of low squeeze cuts that I always, I never felt like I could optimize my driving. And if I didn't kind of, if I didn't low squeeze cut, I would back up and then I would hit it right. So I would have a two-way miss effectively. So what we did was, yeah. What your coach's name here again? Can you give his phone number?

I'll pass on his phone number after the call. So we basically worked on a bit more kind of connection with my left arm, but just more structure in the back swing. That was honestly really it. It was kind of having it a little bit shorter, a little wider. It kind of worked to a stage where it was quite loopy at the top. so then I would almost lose my club even more, and then I would back up. And it was, yeah, it took a little bit of time

to kind of get used to because my swing was so long before that having it short, felt really short. But yeah, just more structure in my swing. And that, it was the thing that really improved my driving and kind of gave me a lot of opportunities to score. I'm curious about a lot of the technical stuff as it relates to, you know, you can talk through all that, you can make a swing change, you can take it on the range, you can practice with it,

You can, what makes a golf swing hold up really well in big, massive competitive moments like you've been in the last several months? Like what you just talked about there, the structure of the back swing. Does that just put, you know, does that, I guess, raise your floor of your swing to say like, hey, even when my nerves are high, when I'm feeling different, when I'm in contention, a stronger baseline to get me started here, you know, helps, helps keep my floor raised. I'm just kind of curious because it's so different to pull this off on the range than, then, and massive. presser situations. Yeah, it's a funny one. I, for some reason, I've always been of the assumption for my own golf swing that if it looks a little better, I feel like I can compete more. I don't know if that is, you look at someone like Adam Scott or Rory where the swing just looks so good, it feels like they're never not going to compete. But for me, I always felt like

there were things in my swing I didn't like, and I felt like if I could get rid of them, I would probably have more confidence to go and play well. And I think that was really it. I think, you know, having a slightly better technique and a bit more consistency is definitely good for the mental side and coming down the stretch. But I think knowing that I'm happy with my swing and where it's at, that I can go and be comfortable hitting the shots that I want to hit. And yeah, I felt really comfortable down the stretch in a couple of the tournaments that have contended in. And yeah, it's been it's been a lot of fun. Alex, I'd never seen you play. And then I made a point to get out Saturday at the U.S. Open.

And I picked you up on the seventh hole, the par three, and I watched your T shot on eight. And I was actually, I was really impressed, surprised by you have a unique move. And the way you use your left foot, the way you use the ground at impact. And like, has that, I was wondering if that's new or have you always, you know, generated that ground force with the left foot? It's funny. So when I worked with Mark Blackburn, he is someone who uses all the force plates or the ground. round force stuff. And that was kind of where I discovered that I did that.

I didn't even know that was something that I did. I didn't pay enough attention to it or what it actually did for my swing. But I would say I've always been someone who has a lot of rotational force. I would say that would be my classic superpower is what he used to call it. I mean, I think if you've seen my brother's swing at the moment, he's been trying to get his left foot out the way to where it looks like he's about to fall over. So I was kind of lucky that I've kind of always had that and not had to worry too much about speed or distance.

But yeah, it's something that comes natural to me, and it just helps me, I think, clear my hips a bit more and get out the way. Yeah. And has driving accuracy been, like, if you look at your stats, what has been, you know, what have you done better to now, you know, fourth at the Cadillac or fourth at Truist,

ninth the Cadillac, won the Zurich? Like, what would you attribute that to? Hitting more fairways? Because your approach game seems like it's always been pretty solid. Yeah, I would say my approach play and my chipping from the crap has always been my two strongest parts of my game. But I think hitting so many more fairways has been just such an improvement for me. Because I think because my approach play has been so good for a while, I think just having the opportunity to hit shots from the fairway has been so beneficial for me that just as many fairways as I can possibly hit

as being the key to the better golf 100%. What can you take us back in time? A lot of people were introduced to you through the Netflix series, you know, kind of documenting your relationship with Matt and you got playing the Zurich and things like that. Matt, the success Matt has had. Can you take us to what your, what your belief level was in yourself at that time versus what it was, say, in February of this year versus what it was in May, kind of, did you ever have to convince yourself you were one of the best players in the world are capable of being one of the best players of world? What is your kind of, kind of, kind of, you know, kind of. belief in yourself been like what's that journey been like over the last several years um that's a good question i think given two or three years ago when i was coming out of college or i was you know my first year on the dp world tour i think you all for me personally i always i feel like i always kind of had the inner self-belief i could be one of the better players in the world and i think i found it really hard when it took me a long time to kind of uh to show you over that my game is good enough. And I think it's, yeah, golf is a frustrating game like you guys,

like you guys know, to where, you know, you either have a lot of close shades or you don't play very well for a long time. And it definitely keeps kicking you down. And it's very hard to talk yourself out of it. And that's kind of, again, why I'm thankful that I've had the year I've had, because I think in March of this year or February this year, my game kind of really improved. I really started to feel like I was becoming one of the top 100 players in the world. And then all of a sudden we were favourites, I think, going into the Zurich after we both won. So it was like suddenly there was more expectation on myself like, hey, you're actually one of the better golfers here. And then obviously being paired along some of my brother helps.

But yeah, I think it's a frustrating game. And I think the hard thing is you need, sometimes it feels like you need results to, to almost prove your self-belief that you're a good golfer and you deserve to be one of the better plays in the world. And luckily for me this year has definitely shown that my hard work and a lot of the sacrifices I've made has been, you know, for the good. Yeah. This might be anecdotal, but it feels like you play well on hard golf courses. I think back to the course in India. And I look at some of your results, like, I don't know if this proves out.

Cadillac looked like a hard course, you know, Blue Monster. I think Quail Hollow is a Beast Memorial. Do you is that, are you at home? And I would say your brother's also kind of like you see a hard setup. You kind of think, you know, Matt's going to play well. Is that, do you feel that way? Or birdie, like is an Amex, like a birdie fest not a setup for you? I'm curious how you think about that.

For me, I don't know. I don't like Birdy Fest because I don't put good enough to compete in the Bertie Fest. So I think looking at the results that I've had over the past couple years, they've all been like tree-lined hard golf courses. I don't think I've ever done well around like open golf courses to where people can get away with hitting drivers miles offline. Like I played the Scottish Open this year and I was seeing some T-shots that I'm like,

if that was at Memorial or that was at Quail Hollow, you'd be making 10, but they're making four or birdie or whatever. And especially now with my driving improving, I think I need golf courses that require harder shots and I think that's where I definitely play my best golf. What was your expect going into Zurich this year? You know, you just come off the win in India. You know, obviously Matt has had an incredible start to the year.

It's kind of kind of be hard. Knowing what comes with a win. Like no one else had what you had on the line in terms of, that was in contingent at least in terms of like what was something like, you know, a lot of guys were eligible for the next couple of tournaments or whatever that might be. You had nothing beyond that event. what was the pressure like of that and one that for you and then your brother who there's no one in

the world I'm sure that he would rather support and kind of help out in this situation what was the pressure like for me we saw him win a US open like he's handled pressure on his own really well but that had to be a completely unique style of pressure that he had coming down the stretch of it and if I hope you gave him some crap afterward like he kind of showed some of the pressure on that back nine at Zurich as well yeah I it's funny I didn't sleep at all Saturday night I mean it didn't really, I think, I didn't really realize the pressure on, like, Thursday, Friday, because it just felt like they were, you know, the first two days and you're trying to get through them. And I think the leaderboard is always so compact. You can't really separate yourself.

And then we played really well Saturday, obviously. I think we were 15 under or something stupid. Everything kind of kept going in. And then I just remember not sleeping at all. I think I ordered Ben-Jays at, like, 10 p.m. because I was like, I can't sleep and I'm hungry. So I had them at, like, 11 30s. And I'm like I just can't sleep at all. So and then I remember going to the putting green in the morning and was like, how did, ask him a brother, how did you sleep? And he was like, yeah, I slept like a log. I'm like, that's just crazy to me. But yeah, I think coming down the stretch, I couldn't imagine the pressure he had on himself to try and get over the line for me. Obviously, he hit some shots down the stretch that I don't think he'd normally hit in a different

tournament. But, you know, he's trying to do it for me and he wants me to be here. And, yeah, I couldn't fathom, you know, the pressure he put on himself. But, you know, I think we both did a really good job of managing it. And, you know, we kept ourselves in it all the way to the last hole. So we made it, we made it fun for everyone at home. And then, I mean, so Monday morning, it's like your, your whole schedule just changed. Right. Like, you're all, you're all, you're all, you're now live in a different country.

Like, you know, you're going to, so did you immediately start looking for a home base or were you, Have you just been on the road since Zurich? Kind of like, I'll figure it out week to week. Honestly, it's been kind of on the road most times. I've had a couple, I've had like a week or so off every now and then that I've tried to figure out where I want to go. But only the past kind of month and a half I'd really started looking for houses. Because obviously now, this is the crazy thing, is like, hopefully I'll be in the top 30 of the FedEx. So after that time period, there's a few events in Europe I'll play.

and then I've got a long time off, which is the first time I'll ever have more than three weeks off since I've been pro. So that's something I'm super excited for, but I've also kind of got to find a home. So, yeah, it's just nuts. And I think when you're playing well, you kind of want to keep playing, but it gets to a stage when I think mentally, not even physically, but mentally I think you get exhausted,

especially with all the changes that have happened in my life. I think it became a little tiring. I mean, yeah, I give you credit, though. You, you got to roll the, rode the bowl for a while. I mean, you know, I know the last couple weeks there's like, all right, I need a break, but good run, man. I appreciate it, yeah. That's what I was like, you know, people have a couple hot streaks. You know, you win the India event, like the pessimistic view.

You win in India on the DP World Tour and you win a team event. Like, I was almost more impressed with your run through the signature events that you got into immediately after that. It was like you just immediately launched yourself. into this into this category. I guess when you are, you know, you get transported right into those complete change of pace. Were you still riding complete confidence as you got into all of those?

Or was there any, did you have any like imposter syndrome is not the right word there? But did you have any look around of like, ooh, is this where I really should be feeling that? Take me into your mindset and how you were able to succeed so much in that run that extended past the Zurich. Yeah, I think once I played in Miami,

I mean, everyone was so friendly with me that way. it was unbelievable. I had every player pretty much and every caddy come up to me and my caddy and be like, hey, we're happy you're here, like great work. And that was something I was a little taken back by because I didn't really know how people would respond to me being out there. But yeah, I think I felt really comfortable straight away. And, you know, I think part of that is obviously being around my brother who's one of the best plays in the world has definitely made me more comfortable. and I think also I've come to the conclusion that these superstars are just literally just human beings who are pretty good at a sport. Like they're just normal people who play golf for a living.

And I think that's for me where I've been very lucky and fortunate to where I don't get like starstruck by the people around me. Or at least in golf, I would say. So I've always felt pretty comfortable being around these players and playing against them. And I think that's the nice thing as playing these signature events is like you're going to play with superstars in all of them events and you just kind of, you've got to get on with it. Like golf is golf and it doesn't change no matter where you are in the world. If you can get that ball in the hole as quick as possible, then that's all you care about. I'm curious just with if my math is right, something like $4.8 million earned in just a 10 event and 10 events on the PGA tour this year. where are you looking to live?

Where have you, you know, this is this something you would have thought of prior to the Zerk in any way of like, I'd love to live here or here's where I would be the best place for me to strategically base myself for professional golf and for life? I'm always curious about, especially Europeans that kind of most of them end up in Florida in some way. But what, what's the, how you, how you judge the hierarchy of all the big cities that professional golfers live in? And are you, you know, are you asking people from different places kind of what's, their experiences have been like. I've definitely asked people about where they live and what they think, but my brother been in Florida for so long, I think it would be nice to be close to him.

Not too close, so I don't have to spend much time with him, but close enough to where he's around. So for me, like, I think Palm Beach is where I'm ideally going to be based myself. I mean, I've been a member at a place called the Dye Preserve for about three or four years. And, yeah, I just can't believe that, yeah, four months ago, I was, yeah, I didn't have any of these thoughts going on in my head and then suddenly it's like holy crap this is this this is it this is where it is so um yeah i'll be i'm excited to look for houses i'm excited to base myself have a home here and yeah i know it gets hot in florida so i'll keep going up to new york but uh yeah it's it's been fun that's for sure are you uh you're up in new york now you're hitting uh you hitin

balls at chelsea pier you you because i as a new york city golfer for a long time this top up there man i am not i am not i am not i'm putting the clubs away. I'm having some, some well-earned rest. So I'm, yeah, trying to make the most of being in New York by visiting everything and doing my thing. Is that, so, and then take that to the off season. Are you, I know you have it because of, you know, you're trying to make it, but like, are you the type of person that wants to put the clubs away for like the month of December, for instance? Like, does that, does time away from the game help you, or do you get antsy to get back to working? It's funny. I, I mean, I love golf. I love playing golf. I love. I love.

of competing. I used to be of the opinion where like I would always want to keep playing and practicing. And I think my issue is like once I finish a tournament, it'll be like three or four days of kind of feeling guilty about not playing or practicing. And then if I have more time, like I'm happy to put the clubs away. That's just I think you need, I think everyone needs like a mental reset. And for me, like once I get over them three days of guilt, I feel way better. So it's amazing how how nice. it is once you come back because you're excited to come back and you're excited to practice and play once you have that break. I think that was the nice thing about it. Is it the golf you need a break from

or is it the travel you need a break from or just like the cycle of all of all the tournaments? You know what I mean? Like it's got to be, that that seems to be to me, I would imagine just to be like just the fact that you guys take your show on the road every week and granted your travel gets condensed a little bit more now that you're playing full time in the US versus what you were doing. and you need your passport a little bit less, and that process probably smoothed it a little bit. But is it, you know, how have you seen the balance of those two things? Yeah, for me, obviously, the travel is much easier than traveling around the world on the DP World Tour.

But I think that what it is is the like consistency of what you do at a tournament. Like you wake up early, you probably go to the gym before you play. You have breakfast. You then warm up. Then you practice after you play. And then you're going back to the gym or you're doing some. form of recovery and that's like every day so it's not like you have i mean you can take easier days as a golfer and that's kind of the the lucky thing we have the opportunity to do that but there's not

many guys out there that that have a break and have rest like during tournament weeks and it's just like waking up and doing the same thing all the time i think that's where it can get a little tedious and and it can become tiring and i think that's why the breaks are so nice because you you get excited to get back into that routine Alex, I want to go back to Shinnock, that same round I was watching you. I watched you on 11 that day. And I think, I can't remember if you hit it long. Long left.

And then you missed a shorty. And you were hot walking off that green. I think the, because I was standing up by the T on 12 and you walk by, you're telling your caddy, like, that's the dumbest golf hole I've ever seen, which was, which was sick. I was like, because as a fan, I stood there for two hours. I love that golf hole. But I guess my question is like, how often are you evaluating course architecture while you're playing? Because 11's a famous hole.

So I'm just, I don't know, take me back to that moment. You know, are you just hot or because you miss that putt? Or, you know, I'm just so curious about that. It's a good thing you don't ask my caddy this because he'll tell you I complain about every single golf. Definitely more of a heat. Well, that golf hole is just impossible. Like, I don't know, I don't know how people play that hole. I hit one great shot there on, it might have been Saturday,

and I think I hit it to like 15 feet, and the pin was all the way at the back, and then I three put. Yeah, that's a three putty. We did hit the green. I couldn't remember being chipped on or not. Yeah, I finally hit great shot. I'm like, oh, my God, I'm going to make par, and then I missed a short one.

I made bogey, and I was fuming. And meanwhile, on Friday, I got up and down from the left side to make par, and I was like, this is just, it was just a silly goal. golf hole. Like I think because it was windy as well and you hit I think a time into that green that has like five yards of room. Yeah. It just it's just a difficult golf hole but it's the same for everyone like everyone everyone's hitting it into the same area and yeah there's definitely a heat in the moment thing. Sure. I loved it. I didn't mean that to be like a gotcha. It was just so it was

very human you know what I mean? It's like it it was very relatable because I'm you know I played that hole too and I did not do well. There's something to two pro golfers, too, like finding a way to blame-ish and the blame maybe not the right way. Blame something else from a confidence standpoint. Like, that's the whole's fault. That's not, that is not my fault. You can never blame the golfer. That's what you're going to learn.

It's never my fault. I'm curious kind of, we're coming off this major championship season here. You played in the open championship, I think, in 2023, if I remember right, but kind of your first run through, you know, playing the last three majors that you played here. What, what we can, as viewers can kind of get a glimpse. an understanding of what the differences are in a major championship setup versus what you kind of see week to week now on the PGA tour. But how would you

describe the difference, the margins and everything you've learned, I guess, about major championship golf here in the last couple of months? Do you want the tame answer? Do you want the camera answer? Do you want the real? Give me the real one. Come on.

From everything that I've played in this year, I felt like they just keep putting pins on the most, in the craziest spots that you can find them. That for me is like the big thing I've learned where like PJ tour events they put them on flat spots that you can, they can be accessible and, but they're like hard. They're good pins, whereas the majors, for whatever reason, they're putting them on what looks like 3% slopes and you just, it's really hard to get close. And I think that's what, I mean,

that's what's so impressive about the guys who were playing well that week is sometimes you're playing these events. It's like how on earth are they, like two guys shot eight under, um, last week at the open and I was just as you never saw eight under like not even close um and I think that's the impressive thing is like not only are they putting it on like silly slopes there's also a lot of wind and then you've got to manage the pot bunkers last week and um definitely just from a close set of they just make it as hard as possible um and that could be that they can make you look really stupid which I found in the in the last round that's interesting because I think there's there's a part of I hear me hearing you hear

you say that part of me is like, oh, hell yeah, it should be. It should be really hard. Let's, let's see who the best golfers are. But at the same time, it feels like, you know, I guess does it feel like at times they do this with with hiding pins that feels just like score suppression and less of a test of golf, which I know can be a hornet's nest of a question here of like, you know, I think the best player is probably going to win no matter what. But I think there was a little bit of this erroneic, at least in my opinion, of really, really, really hard pins. to the point where if you're kind of out of position off the T or in a really good position, either way, you couldn't really get close to it.

And it kind of diminished a little shot value in there. I'm curious kind of whether or not you walked off those courses and were like, oh, now, you know, if I was better at blah, blah, blah, blah, I could get closer these holes or it felt like almost nobody could get close to it. Was that a great test of golf? Hopefully that makes sense. Yeah, I think, I definitely think if you're playing well, you can, you can, you can, you can, you can, you can still score.

I think it's very, they make it very hard for you to shoot seven, eight under. I think a really good score in these majors that I've played in have been like three or four under, which I think is, you know, you move up a lot of the leaderboard. Again, I think I've only played the three. I haven't played the Masters, which is the one that I've dreamed of as a kid and it's tree line, so I'm hoping that would help me. But it's definitely felt like the punishment has been like where the pins are. And also, like, if you miss the fairway by five yards, it seems to,

to be you kind of screwed, but if you miss it by like 50, you seem to have shots. And I think that was the reason, I think I was a little frustrated with a couple of them was just felt like you were hitting decent shots down off the tee and you kind of getting punished, especially at the PGA. Like if you miss the fairway by two yards in the PGA, you were moving it 50 yards. It was kind of nuts. But you miss it by 30 and suddenly these guys were having shots to the greens, which I just never saw.

But that's all, I'm new to this. like it's all part and parcel of it. So that's just, you know, something I'm adjusting to. And yeah, hopefully next year I can figure out a better approach to try and climb up the leaderboard. This, again, might be kicking a hornet's nest with this question because it's always a hard topic to speak on it in a brief way. But do you have any concerns?

Because what you're describing there, I think it, my mind immediately goes towards equipment, rollback and all kinds of conversations around this. Where I just, my opinion, if somebody's blowing it 30 yards offline, it shouldn't go as far as it does, right? I think is where some of the imbalance comes from. Are you up to speed at all on any of the discussion around,

rollback around the game, what is potentially coming with the golf ball here in now 2030, and how that might affect a player like you, or are you just head down and focused on what you can control? I've kind of heard, I wouldn't say I'm big into kind of understanding and realizing what's going on with the ball, but I've heard multiple different things.

Like, I've heard that rolling the ball back is only going to make it better for the guys who hit it further, which then defeats the purpose of rolling the ball back. But I'm also, I love kind of creating shots and seeing shots, and I don't know. I think it's harder to do with the ball we play right now, so I think it would be easier to do with the ball that would be rolled back. But, yeah, I don't know what the right answer is. I think it's a tough one, and I don't. really know where they're going to go with it and i also don't really know what the general

public would want i don't know if there would be like a ball for the pros or a ball from the amateurs and if so like i think that's kind of crazy that you would play a different ball to what the pros play because that's part of it right like if you you want to play the title is pro v1x that has a dot on it because the pros play it and that might give you know some enjoyment out of that or um or like hitting the shots that you think the pros may be able to hit so i i don't really know kind of what the right answer is. And again, it kind of keeps changing.

So I guess, yeah, we'll just have to see with it. Well, we'll come back to you in a couple of years. You get your Zillow stuff dialed. You got a lot. That's a lot of other stuff.

You just play. We'll keep talking about it. But you did mention, like, hitting shots, fuel shots. Your brother has always been kind of, the narrative is like data boy.

You know, tracking his stats. Are you, and I've heard, you know, or he may be saying about you that you're more of a field player. But where do you, would you define,

would you define, find yourself as more of a field player or are you tracking stats like how do you approach that part of the game i would i mean i've actually tracked my stats for a long time i just don't he's in a different dimension when it comes to stats like it's the craziest stuff i've ever seen in my life but like i record my stats for them to be input so i can see you know where i'm gaining where i'm losing that sort of stuff but um i'm way more of a field player like i would i would much rather go down the root of, um, of me personally is like, if you get me into the numbers too much, like my head can't comprehend all the numbers. So I'm, I'm way better at just seeing and doing, um, rather than

all the math behind it. I'm curious, uh, maybe this question's even for Neil of like, Neil, Neil, Neil has two sons. And I would ask Neil, like, can you picture a world where both of your sons are like top 40 golfers in the world or like top athletes in a particular sport? Like, Are your parents just like through the, like, I can't even imagine the pride your parents must feel watching the two of you guys succeed in the way you guys have. Yeah, I can't honestly imagine how they feel. I think part of them is a little upset and disappointed because it means that I won't be back in England as much. But, yeah, I, you know, I think having two kids that have dreamed of being out here and being, you know, playing golf together, I think the happiest thing for them is that we're together more. I think that's the nice thing that from their perspective is we get to spend time together,

which we haven't done in the past 10, 12 years. So for them, I think it's nice having us together and it makes it easier for the travel for them that we're going to be in the same spot each time. And you're going to be an uncle here soon too, right? Is I understand it? About a week's time, yeah, the fun uncle. It's a good role. I play that role for, oh, I enjoy that role, sometimes more than be a dad.

I'm solo this weekend with the kiddos. So a question for you, like, it's not just your brother. I mean, you went to Wake Forest. And I feel like around some talent there with Cam Young on the squad, did you see, like, I feel like Cam's had a breakout year. Did you see this when he was your teammate? Like is this, do you think he's under, I don't know, underachieved or over, you know what I mean? Like, where was he at when he was your teammate?

Cam was one of the, I would say, the very few people. that I've played golf with and been like, wow, this kid is like, this is seriously good. So for the longest time, I couldn't believe that he hadn't done as well as he'd hoped. I honestly believe that, like, this year is the golf that he would be playing for a long time. He just hits the ball a long way. His approach plays great. He's got, I don't think people realize how good his hands are. Like, his short game is a joke.

and then once he finds the putter hot, it's, you know, it's hard to catch. So I've always felt like he was going to do really well. It was just more of a matter of time than anything else. But he's great. He's great. I love him to bits. He's not changed since college. He mumbles all the time and people think he's unhappy, but he's not.

And yeah, he doesn't change, which I think is the best thing. You talked earlier about structure in the back swing. When you said that, I think about Cam Young. I mean, talk about, like, the way he pauses at the top. I mean, it's such an, like, incredible golf swing. Just a unique move. Yeah, that was funny. I actually talking about my left arm kind of shifting out more in my swing.

One of the, when me and my coach were trying to figure out how to help with my left arm staying more connected, one of the things we looked at was like, hey, pause in is a good method. So, like, I obviously have spent so much time with Cam that I know that he pauses like mad. and then I actually saw a video of him talking about why he pauses and I was like this could this could work so we ended up doing it as a drill to start and I think it's really seeped into my swing to where I get to the top and I'm I feel like I'm pausing so my arms don't get shifted out so yeah basically I'm just copying cam and hoping that everything works out yeah well you mentioned they're like copying and I've heard guys say this when they

when they've come out on tour or you know when they're rookies or then in your case can come on the PJ tour. Is it, you know, you're around so many world-class players. You're playing with a different level of players on a much more frequent basis. Is there any like, do you ever walk off a course and feel like, ooh, he's doing it like this? Maybe I need to think about doing it like this. And guys have, you know, maybe lost their focus on some things because they see different

techniques or they see different, you know, ball flights or things like that. Has any of that affected you in any way? Things you've seen and have just been like, ooh, I'm going to need to get a lot better at this like so-and-so. if I really want to compete and be a top 10 players say. I think putting from my point of view is the reason as to why I think there's guys that do well week in week out. My putting hasn't always been my strongest suit,

so I'm hopeful that if I work hard enough, that can improve. And I think that's from my point of view, I think that's the reason as to why I haven't done as well in the past as what I would hope. But I would say other than that, I've, you know, everyone, everyone does it differently, and I think that's what's so unique about golf is. Everyone has their style of golf and how they play,

and that's what makes it so fun, is you see guys who have weird works in the swing or weirdos that chip cross-handed or, for sure. Everyone's different, and they just make it work. All right, so with putting,

though, break that down for me. Is it a specific, is it pace that you need to work on, lags? Is it, is it attitude? Pudding's an interesting one.

Like, or to make it an easier question. maybe who's who's putting do you admire and why well yeah it's easy for me to say my brother because I feel like he's one of the best putters in the world but where I played with I played with Ricky Fowler quite a bit recently and then Denny McCarthy the two I just love the way they put like they put with no fear they're okay with rolling it four or five feet past and yeah they everything just looks like goes in the middle of the hole so you know you see that they're the people I'd look at and be like well

what are they doing that works for them and, you know, how do they read the greens and trying to pick up on little things that might be able to help your game, but also you don't want to go over and be like, hey, mate, what's making you so good at putting? What can I do to improve? So you kind of got to do it on the sly. Yeah. What's your, how have you from like a, you know, Neil just mentioned putting being an attitude

kind of thing. What is your just in your entire career, entire golf life? What's been your mental? confidence journey been like what what have you learned about kind of the mental side of golf and do you have like a you know when you're approaching some of these pressure situations do you have a mantra do you have any like kind of techniques that help you through some of these pressure situations that are maybe you know mechanisms you're using from the mental side i'm always curious to pick guys brains on this the best way i can describe that would be when when we played the zorick

on on sunday on the 17th the only thing that was going on in my head was please don't hit it in the pissed. That was like the only thing. Oh, I was not in my head. Yeah, I would say that from a mental side, I could probably do with a little bit of improvement. But I think you've just

been playing golf with these guys and playing well and being in contention, I think you get easier with doing that. So the more you can do that, I think that's why, like Rory's so good is, you know, I think a normal person would feel an extreme amount of pressure on a Sunday in contention. And I'm, I don't

I don't even know if he probably feels it in a regular PJ tour event because of what he's done in the game. So, yeah, I think it's something that you can get better at with time. And from my point of view, I've felt comfortable with my game, especially at the moment, to where I don't feel as worried or anxious when I'm coming down the stretch. But typically in the past, like trying to win for the first time and I've not got across the line, you definitely feel some nerves and your legs shake and arm shaking. makes it tough to kind of control, but I think breathing plays a big, big role in that. Do you, what's kind of your relationship like with your brother in terms of like sharing

advice or notes back and forth on something like that? Like if you, do you guys help each other with technical stuff, with mental stuff, like kind of, you know, do you have a dividing line in your professional careers in some way that doesn't let it affect your guys relationship? I'm curious kind of how that works. And say, we used to, used to do that. And now, more of his opponent so he doesn't share as much anymore. Now, in all fairness, we do talk a little bit, but not load. I mean, I think it's a strange one because I feel like we both got to where we've got to in the game just by doing our own thing.

And there's been moments, I would say, more from kind of him maybe helping me a little bit with some things, but he's a little stubborn. He wouldn't listen to me anyway, even if I offered my help. So we tend just to do our own thing. that seems to be working. Hypothetical, let's see if there's a way I could phrase it. Let's say you're trailing Matt by like four going into the final round,

but you shoot 68 and he shoots 70, you walk in, you see he shoots, he shoots 73. What's your reaction? Are you like, oh, got him? Hell yeah,

I got him. Look, if I, as long as I win and he finished his second, that's like the ideal scenario. I wouldn't, I obviously want him to do as well as possible. And,

um, I just don't want him to beat me. So that's the, that's how it is. Yeah. One more Wake Forest question. Old Town, one of my favorite courses in the U.S. How do you feel about that course?

Did you realize like what good golf course it is, you know, being a home course for Wake? I wish that I would have paid more attention to how good it was. I think once you leave and you realize what you had, it was like that place was amazing. I think the only downside, I think, was it was on the wider side off the tea, but like for approach plays and the condition of the golf course, it was incredible. And I, yeah, I wish I'd have made, or wish I'd have kind of looked at it a little different

and been more thankful that I'd put out was the golf course we played regularly. They were so good with us on the team and letting us play whenever we want. And the guys were in the pro shop were always amazing. So, yeah, I'm actually going back. I play the Wyndham, so I'm going to go back the day before. and I'm going to go see it all and maybe play around there and try and enjoy it. And then a quick follow up on that. Any courses like this year, PGA tour courses that have really stood out for you,

that you're like, man, I really like this golf course. From a genuinely irrelevant from how I played, I really liked the Quail Hollow. I've liked it before. And I loved Memorial. I thought that was great. It was just really hard. Them two are probably the two that I'm like, this is really cool. like this is sick to be here.

Yeah. What kind of adjustments have you made in terms of what your actual future goals are? Are you super goal oriented? Are you a write them down and kind of has your, you know, just like how you practice, how you play, what you're kind of planning on, has that kind of changed in recent months and years knowing now what you're capable of? Yeah, I wrote some goals down at the start of the year. I actually looked in my in my notebook the other day

and it was like they were all crossed off with enough so it was like suddenly I've got to make new ones I wrote some new ones down I wouldn't say like I'm massively goal oriented I'm trying to get better at not getting them ahead of myself and trying to be more present and grounded with the golf but it's definitely fun to write stuff down and see if you know if you achieve what you want

and you can celebrate that I think that is the biggest thing is like golf happened so fast. Like then the Zurich week and then the next four or five weeks happened so quickly. I felt like I didn't really get chance to celebrate it. And I think that's something that I'm super excited for. And I think people need to do that. Otherwise, it's before you know it, it's too late. And you just move on to the next thing and you don't get chance to appreciate what's happened.

What's aside from the actual on course success on the golf course, What's the coolest thing that's happened off the course as a result of it? Somebody you've heard from or just any, in some way your life has changed or some way that you look and be like, wow, I can't believe that this happened. That's a great question. The coolest thing that's the real cool thing that happened was we, me and my brother were at the Grove, which is Michael Jordan's place. And we, me and my brother were sat there.

This was just after the Zorik. We sat there and Gary Woodland was sat at the bar. so there was just three of us in the room and he'd just, Gary had just won the PJ tour event the week after and Michael walks in and he pats me on the shoulder and, uh, part of my French, but he walked past and he was like,

it's just a room full of fucking winners in here. I was like, that's so cool because he just strolled in with his cigars and it was like, this is the coolest thing ever. I would say that is by far the thing I would be like, this is unbelievable. But yeah, that does, yeah, I would say that's great. Well, if Paul loves it, that's an awesome story.

But I've got the, I call it the kind of the Russ Henley test. You know, Russ has had an awesome career, made a bunch of money. But I mean, Russ can still walk through the air, but I've asked in this directly. I'm like, you, you know, you walk through the airport. Like, nobody knows who you are. Like, are you, have you been recognized in public a little bit more outside of a golf setting? Airports, you know, I'm talking about like non-golf settings. No, no one cares who I am, Neil.

All right. That's the dream, though. You know what I mean? Like, you could still be normal outside of the, outside of the ropes. I don't know how, I really can't understand how, like, Rory and Tiger do it. I mean, they can't go anywhere without people pestering them for stuff. And I think that's the thing I appreciate most about it is, like, it's amazing to have a great career and stuff. But you can, if you can still live a normal life, and I think that is, that's the best thing that could happen. All right.

Well, we're going to let you out on that story because that was fantastic. This is a room full of fucking winners right here as well. If I may say, but congrats on all your success, man. It's been awesome to watch and your easy guy to root for him. We appreciate you spending some time with us and best of luck. No, thank you guys. I'd say hold off to see if you win the FedEx Cup, though, until you, like, buy that house because you could be shopping at a whole different tax bracket for that matter.

I hope. I can only hope. So I got hopefully 29 of the plays to beat. God, I'd love to see your Zillow results, man. That's fun. Congratulations. Keep us posted on that. I want to know.

I will do. Thank you, guys. Appreciate it. Cheers. Thank you. Bye.