No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - 1201: Match Play at the Tour Championship

Episode Date: August 25, 2026

It’s Tour Championship week in Atlanta, and we react live to PGA Tour CEO Brian Rolapp’s announcement of major changes coming to the Tour in 2028, including the return of match play. We break down the new season-ending format, the two-track event system, the Returning Members Program, his comments on LIV Golf, and much more. Plus, Max Homa joins the show to share his perspective on the changes and where he sees the PGA Tour heading. Presented by Titleist. Support our sponsors: Titleist - the #1 ball in Golf! Rhoback - code NLU for 20% off at https://www.rhoback.com Lagoon - code NLU for 15% off at https://www.lagoonsleep.com/nlu Looking to travel this year, check out East Sands Golf Co.: https://www.eastsandsgolf.co/nlu Join us in our support of the Evans Scholars Foundation: https://nolayingup.com/esf Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Be the right club. Be the right club today. I mean, that's better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No Laying Up live show presented, as always, by our friends at Titleist Breaking News edition of the show.

Tuesday afternoon version of the show, joined by my esteemed colleague, Mr. DJ Pihouski. Hello, DJ. Hello, Sally. Good to be here. Good to be talking about some good news, man. I'm excited. We did it. We rocked it.

We rocked him. T.C. calling in from the Northeast on assignment here today. Hello, T.C. Greetings gentlemen. Sorry, I couldn't be up there in Atlanta. You guys know how much East Lake means to me. But, you know. Will you still support the East Lake Foundation, T.C.?

Will you still support it? I will. I will. Yeah. I am on a site visit to some of these courses that we're evaluating, some of these top 100s. Yeah, I think we found the perfect man for that job. You know, I think, yeah, we'll get into it. But now, yeah, I'm excited to be a D-Wrider for the tour now.

Now that they're putting our ideas into mission here, we're going to react to the news that was announced, of course, today. We have, I'm sure, plenty to say about that. React to other things that were brought up at Brian Rollavis Press conference today. Some key questions. There's great questions asked, if I may say, by the KrepGulf Media, that we're in attendance there and grilling them on some things. We also spoke with Max Homa. We've recorded this yesterday. We're going to play that for you at the end of our conversation here.

His reaction to the changes for a player's perspective, how that has gone about, how the tour's been communicating kind of under this new regime, things like that, and a lot to react to. Today's show, we're going to run this opening segment here, commercial free thanks to our friends at Titleist. Still plenty of golf season left. Go get fit. If I may, go get fit now while you're playing some golf. You know, maybe if you're thinking about

in the off season, though, do it now. Like, you don't want to be rusty and shaky, kind of on a fitting session. Titles.com.

I said that free, but I included that. That was my own editorial comment there, if I may say. So Dej, what happened today? Take us there. Let's assume somebody is,

you know, not spending their lives on Twitter and social media and watching, you know, PJT-Tor press conferences in the middle of their work day. They're looking to get caught up.

What happened? Take us there. Yeah, there's a lot that happened today. I think it's worth reiterating just out of an abundance of caution what's already happened, which is that it kind of was laid bare by the press conference today. I think just like zooming out for a second. We were in East Lake a year ago, Brian Rolap kind of introductory press conference. What's, you know, what's the deal, man, what's going on? And he laid out a lot of things that were like, we're going to look at this. We're going to look at this. We're going to look at this. And it was kind of wild today to sit there a year later and be like, he laid out a lot of things that were like, we're going to look at this. And it was kind of wild today to sit there a year later and be. like, oh, man, we've kind of, we've kind of rocked him on a lot of those things that he kind of laid out what he said he was going to do. And it seems like they've kind of done it. And so what's been included in that is a two-track PJ tour, the championship track and the Challenger track, which is going to kick off in 28. And a lot of what we talked about today is what is the postseason look like for that championship track. So rather than the FedEx Cup playoffs, it all comes down to this.

how are we reimagining things a little bit so again if you allow me to kind of zoom out we're going to have this challenger track that's about 130ish 132-ish uh guys will have 120 or 120 man fields with cuts will be that championship track of events and then uh what it's going to end up happening is we're going to have a championship like uh what do they call it the pj tour uh series finale championship series finale is going to be really the final event season. We're going to figure out who are 90 guys are that keep their cards of those 132. The rest will be relegated the following year back down to the Challenger series. A lot of qualifications and stuff still to come on how all of that's going to work.

Just clarifying really quick, you cut out for a second, if you said final event of the season. This championship series finale is considered part of the postseason. It is a postseason event. There is a final 130 person stroke play event of the regular season, whatever they're calling it. And then to kick off the postseason, there's a final 90 person stroke play tournament. Those 90 people are keeping their cards for 2029. And from that 90, you're willing it down to 32 for match play. Correct.

And of those 32, we're going to have a two-week tour championship, two different venues. The first week, we're going to knock 16 of the 32 out via match play, which is going to be a thrill. And then the final 16 are going to go to another venue to play four rounds of match play. They're all going to play each day, which is kind of interesting. You know, so I think they'll play for the difference between the 16th seed and the 15th seed and the 14th seed all the way up until identifying the one person who is undefeated, who will be your playoffs winner, your season winner. So a lot of good out of here.

But, I mean, T.C., I'll throw it to you, what was kind of your, what's your first reaction here? I think it's been a great rollout, first and foremost. I think in the past, it felt like they would have tried to explain, like they would have told us anything over the last six, eight, 12 months. And then they would have announced everything today, done it kind of poorly. And then everybody would have been really confused. And they were overpromised and probably ended up under delivering. I think today would have. was like he just keeps meeting the milestones, right? Like when he was at players, you said, hey, I'll have more for you at Travelers. At Travelers, he said, hey, I'll have more for you at Eastlake. I'm sure we'll hear more in November at some point.

But it just feels really coherent and simple but not easy, right? I think between the different levels, but also like it's pretty clean. I thought the explainer thing, the visualized, you know, tweet was like that's, that's the kind of stuff that, like, those are the kind of details that I think help you buy in from a fan perspective as well. So, you know, a lot still to still to come as far as, you know, how the point system will work and all that stuff. And I know we'll have last chance kitchen there in the fall and, you know, how, like how these, these fields are going to

kind of net up and down from, you know, like how you bring in the, uh, sponsor exemptions, but how you bring in the lifetime membership or career money list exemption, how you fold in all these kind of PGA tour entitlements from, from, you know, the last few decades. But I think overall, like, this is the massive step forward that we've been looking for for the last decade. I keep finding myself a little shocked that there just doesn't seem to be a ton of detractors from, from most of these decisions, right? And we can get to, when the rubber meets the road, we'll see if that actually becomes the case. And if everybody's as happy as they seem now.

But it's the same thing with the track one, track two is like, hey, no, it's basically the same amount of events playing for more money. We seem to have listened to kind of all the stakeholders. And like, everybody seems to be walking away a winner here.

And with this instance, it's like, okay, all the fans seem to want match play. They all want stakes. They all want like real gravity towards the end of the season. But at the same time, we got to reward a season long champion.

So we'll do that at the championship, you know, the series finale or whatever they're calling that like championship event. And then we'll have a basically a separate thing to, to kind of satisfy, you know, the fans after that. So even that feels like kind of an all sides win. And it's just a, it's mind blowing after years and years of just like, oh, no, we can't have that. Like you guys wouldn't even understand why we can't do that.

And maybe some of that stuff I, you know, that's be glib. Like some of that stuff, the last five years probably needed to happen in order to get to where we are and to force things to break and to force things to, you know, to be okay with these changes. But man, now that we're okay with those changes, it seems like everybody's pretty fucking happy about it. I don't know. It seems like maybe we could have skipped some heartburn and just gone right to this. But alas, we got here eventually, Sally. Yeah, it's not, I wouldn't say the format is, is perfect.

I know we've been a part of many, many, many, how did we fix the FedEx Cup finals, playoffs, whatever you want to call it, episodes. I still encourage people to email nealat nolagup.com with all of your ideas there. He reads through all of them. He responds to all of them, and he greatly appreciates that.

Can I pause out just super quick? If we had to have 19 different iterations of the fed, maybe that was not a good system. I was going to say, you know, and I think that's not a lot of detractors. props to roll out for being like, okay, well, no, no, we're not going to try to fix this.

We're going to blow it up because it's also not playoffs anymore. It's postseason. Which is funny because it actually is now a playoff of some kind. But I think it, the one, there's not many detractors because it had gotten so bad. It was just like legitimately, I don't know if you could have crowned it in a worse way. Like I don't think you could have brought the season legitimately to a close in a less emphatic way than they're currently doing. And that is, but that's coming from somebody that actually like the starting strokes. much better than how they're currently doing it, as I've said.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Much better. Or the old way they were doing it pre-starting strokes. All of it better than just like 30 man free for all, the winner of the tour championship is the pediatric. Awful. So you know how fucking silly that's going to seem? 10 years to say, even this year and next year.

The next year is to do it. The next 18 months or 13 months, you know, 13 months, you know, operate under that, that update, now outdated. you know, mechanism. It's hilarious. So, yeah, there's, there's issue. A lot of, a lot of stakeholders,

a lot of things to consider. There's TV, there's players, there's money distribution, there's venues, there's all kinds of things here. So I was not expecting things to go exactly the way we had listed it out or the idea that we had had of, you know, just basically doing a sudden death final in some way,

maybe some buys, a double buy for the top seeds, kind of given people, people remember I rolled out a somewhat finalized version of what I'd like to see but it was like the top eight seeds or the top four seeds are going to get double buys the next four seeds are going to get single buys the next eight guys of those 16 will you know kind of start the back of the pack and have to play a bunch of match play to identify a champion this way it is I mean one through 32 make it into the match play and granted there's you know the first you know the 32 seed is going to get in the bracket with the one seed.

I assume and probably, you know, 15 and 16 or 16 and 17, however that shakes out, would be in that one. But otherwise, there's not a ton of advantage to being one versus 32. Like we are going to kind of roll it out and kind of figure it out from there, which, you know, are we trying to exactly mimic playoff settings from other sports? Maybe not. But like NFL, you get a buy if you're the number one seed, Major League Baseball, if you're the top two seeds, you get a bypass that first round, things like that.

and golf is not going to go they're not going that way and it is they seem a little caught between this you know the idea of we need to produce a lot of matches we cannot have just a few a little amount of golf out there like that's a very clear takeaway from this like there's going to kind if i had a concern it's like there's going to be kind of a lot of pointless golf going on uh because once once you've lost in the championship series i don't picture myself caring whether you finish third or 16th i could be wrong on that but uh that's clearly a a a something that they're having to work around and go for. I think it would be cooler if it was a harsher sudden death. But, you know, how these matchplay events work, like it just kind of does invert where most of the excitement is. Like, I would expect most of it to be in the early rounds, which doesn't line up great for weekend viewing, which is what the PJ Tour prides themselves on.

But it is, it's match play, man, and it's going to be head to head. And we talked about this a bunch with Max here at the end, but I think it's going to take some time for it to, like feel important important from the end, you know, for the players and to make it feel like the the exclamation point on the end of the season. But man, just such a better way to conclude it. And I hope the players seriously buy into this, bring energy for it. I like that they're make, you have to play the championship series finale. Like you can't skip that one if you're automatically qualified for it. Call it the Rory rule if you want. You're playing that final event if you want to

play in the matchplay part too um but yeah it's with match play it's it's it's what we've been asking for even if it's not perfect i'm i'm supporting it i'm i'm excited about where this is headed these people have thought believe it or not have thought about it more than i have and have considered a lot more things than i have and i'm willing to willing to see where this goes from here sally sally's he's willing to look past the fact that we're not getting the mule drive yeah exactly the Mule Drive might be later in the fall. We'll see. I like a couple different things.

I actually don't mind the, I don't mind the one doesn't have a buy, one doesn't have an advantage stuff, because I think that's kind of what I was saying earlier is like the championship series finale is where you lock that in. And I think, again, we'll hear Max talk about it. But the whole, the problem with the FedEx Cup

was that it was just a bonus distribution system. It was a, you know, a chance. to give like backload these guys earnings for the year and we just have a shitload of money that these guys we need to get out to these guys and we need to try to make it interesting and it's never going to be interesting when the thing you're rooting for is who makes more money right and so if they can use that championship series finale as a way to be like here's the big ass reward for your whole financial reward for your whole season I think that's a very natural way to do that right And like Scotty, who has finished in the top five 12 times or 13 times, whatever, this year, like, yeah, he does have an advantage because he's number one in the points, right?

It's like that stuff all feels very natural to me. And then it's like once you get into the pool play, no, it's not like the NFL. It's not like baseball. It's like the World Cup, which is kind of a funny thing I was thinking about this morning where I'm like, they're trying to push all this stuff through as like the most successful World Cup in American history is kind of like, is all good. Like, that had to, that's the kind of break you can't, like, plan for. Like, I think they had to be saying in those meetings being like, did you watch that fucking England, Mexico game last night? That was great.

You know, that really made me laugh. But it's, it's, uh, they had that break. Even the third place game was great, right? You know, that's, yeah. I would support, like, making the, the consolation matches trick shots of some kind. Half, half sets, like make it weird. Make it, you know, you can take a club out of somebody's bag. Like, make that part weird.

I'd be in support of that. Yeah, I mean, I don't think anybody's trying to, I don't think they're trying to strangle the like, oh, we need this seventh place, 11th place match to be like life and death. I think they know nobody cares. I think that's just more for the people that are on site. It's to show how the other holes are playing. Oh, get a load of this pin location when they get to four. Like, I think it's stuff like that rather than trying to make that like some hugely exciting. Yeah.

Yeah, it's not taking like. Yeah, it's not taking anything like. So that's all you said earlier, like, I wish it was a harsher sudden death thing. I think it still is harsh, right? Like, the guys, that's almost more of a penalty for Scotty. Like, wait, you're telling me I have to go play this seventh place game? That's true. Yeah, I just, yeah.

Again, I hope that part's not lost for all the, like, they need buys. This is unfair. But it's like, no, that's settled in the in the stroke play thing. And that's where, again, it's like, I, if I was a player and I was like, man, I'm really trying to, to really pay off, like, my whole year. It's like you're going to do it that first week of the postseason. And then the matchplay thing is like a totally different event to me is how it seems. And I think people, I think people get up for it.

I think you get good venues. You get good, you know, it's kind of a, it will be a big deal to make it in. Like, I think it's like, I think there's a lot, a lot here that's going to work itself out in a good way. I agree. I think where I was kind of going with that is, is, it's a way of almost guaranteeing your Rory's, your Scotty's your top finishers, get farther in the bracket. And it's a little bit anticipatory, right? And look, I get why it didn't shake out that way.

Maybe they go that way in the future. I get all that. Where I think this next part is like the capital, whatever letter, like the number one most important thing is we've seen pool play at the WGC Dell matchplay. We've seen the PGA Tours television broadcast partners try to cover matchplay goals. and I'm talking about one of them in particular of the two that has struggled with this at times. When pool play is on,

especially that Friday, I have no fucking clue what is going on. I don't know what match is important. I don't know who is in whose group. And I think this is extremely important that every time you show a match on TV, you are showing, if Cote,

if you can show the example, I mock this up of like how important I think this is, of if you are seeing, a match with Scotty Sheffler playing Robert McIntyre. Cody, if you don't mind flashing it up there. Show me who else is in the group and show me how many points the other guys have and what the status of that match is. You can see this graphic shown right here.

Scotty has six points. McIntyre has three. In the other match, it's Brian Harmon against Ben Griffin. Harmon's got three. Ben Griffin's got zero. I can look at this graphic and say, like, man, if Harmon just holds on, he's going to be one of the two. and Scotty is going to be the other one to advance.

Otherwise, like, it is, it's a mess. It's an absolute mess. And I get why they don't like to show a lot of this stuff because there's so much stuff on delay. And it's hard, you know, you don't want to give scores away before you've shown the shots on TV. But, like, man, that's going to be super important to get right because there's going to be a lot of golf going on

and it's going to be very hard to keep track of all that stuff, plus all the commercials she kind of fit into all this. That is why I'm not a fan of pool play, because it's just inconclusive. The part about that match play that is so appealing, it is very from the jump, like from the early part of the round, it's very easy to understand exactly what's at stake on each hole. And it's not a pacing mechanism.

It's like, dude, you make this putt, you tie the hole. If you miss it, you lose it. Like, that's awesome. That is what your selling point is. And I got to be able to, the viewers got to be able to understand how this all fits into the context of the pool player or else. That's just going to be a wet. It's going to be worse than Steve stands on the whiteboard,

trying to calculate the FedEx Cup points at the end of the year. And I would lead to show with that, because I honestly think that is like the most important thing maybe of all this. It's like you guys, they need to be on their television partners to present this, right? Because we have very good evidence that they will not do this on their own. What if they sell each pool to one of the proud partners? So this is the Coca-Cola pool.

This is, that's over there on True TV. I love that. bet on that. That will have it. This is the Southern Company region. Yeah. Half the matches, you know, there's 32 players instead of 64. Maybe that helps a little bit.

But yeah, I think that's very valid concern. But once we get to the second week, hopefully it becomes a little bit more just like, did you win or did you lose? Yeah, definitely. But I think that early part is, you know, that, yeah, like I said, it's just, it's really, really hard. And look, like, we've seen NFL's had a, had a playoff bracket forever. And it's, it's been a long, like college football has had this for, it's been like 12 years now. Like, it's been a long time since, since college football went to the playoff bracket. They've changed it.

They've expanded it. And I mean, college football season, like, it's here. And I would say our, our closets are looking more and more like the Roeback website. And here's one thing about Roeback's college football thing. One thing about Robax's collegiate game day collection. They're not just slapping a logo on a stock polo. Every polo hoodie or quarter zip is custom designed for your school, whether it's campus landmarks, logos, traditions, school colors,

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Exactly. We should say a few words about the venues, potential venues. I know Josh Carpenter had had some specifics named. I'm trying to remember off the top of my head. I think he said Sleepy Hollow, LACC, and Interlocking. Interlocking as potential venue, which is always a funny one, right? When it's like sources are like, well, can we, well, we did have it.

Well, we had a call. Well, we had a site. Well, no, they're going to get mad if we say that. It's always just funny, which ones actually get named. Who knows what it'll be, but those were the three that he, he reported. The big thing with this that I think has been kind of part of this conversation as long as we've been talking about it. But if you go to match play, if you go to something like this,

you're not trying to stand up a 72 hole stroke play event. It seemingly can be a golf course that has a smaller footprint. Doesn't need to be 7,800 yards. It's just beat the guy that's across from you, which obviously brings in a lot more potential venues. And then I think we'll change the fan experience, right? If there's not T times from 8 a.m. until 2 p.m. or whatever, like it'll be a little bit of a different probably smaller footprint maybe more intimate maybe more

close up i don't i don't really know how that's going to work but i'm curious if you guys have any thoughts venues fan experience uh some of that stuff i think it's uh i think of walker cup as like you know some of my favorite events i've been to that said it's i think the walker cup at cypress was 2,000 fans i think the one at lehinch will be you know probably six to eight thousand fans and so like how do they how do they juggle that are there are there going to be ropes or they're not going to be ropes because i think unless you have the the fans like right up there up close and personal there's a lot less fans you need you need that energy and that intimacy i think um can feel empty fast yeah and yeah you know empty and just kind of soulless

um going back to i think lACC is a pretty interesting They didn't exactly roll out the welcome mat to, you know, Walker Cup fans or U.S. Open fans. And I can't imagine that the unwashed masses coming in for a PGA tour event would be welcome with open arms plus their whole PACs, you know, PR problem that they've got out there as well. It is. So that's certainly an interesting first West Coast venue, I think.

It's so funny that we've gone. in the last whatever eight, nine, ten years from live under par. This is all about the fan experience. Just like, we're one of the most private fucking places you have ever heard of. We're going to have 4,000 people there. Who knows how it'll shake out. But I thought Roll-I've had some good stuff about like, man, it's a chance to go to places that people don't get to see a lot.

You know, it's a TV product. Yeah, and make it a full-on TV product. Yeah. And when you're setting it up for either, you know, a round of 16 or 32 match-play matches the considerations are decidedly different, like decidedly different. You can do all sorts of more driveable holes if you want. I mean, you could, I was thinking about this earlier, you could get so creative. Like you can turn like par fours that are not proper length for PJ tour players, turn them into par threes. So you guys are playing this hole from 180 yards to a diabolical front right pin.

Instead of like playing this as a 380 par four that's going to be silly. Like, why don't we do that? You can do so many creative things. You don't have to worry about what these. you know play into a certain par number you don't have to worry about guys shooting 20 under anything like that uh you could play i mean you could play a whole you know depending on how the routing works you could play the whole once as a par three you can come back to play it a different way as a par four like you could do very creative stuff that i think um isn't usually in the spirit of the pgat to word but like hey we got this far throwing out some ideas like might as well uh might as well keep throw these out there and keep keep pushing the envelope with this dude i think the uh that's where i

I get back to LACC as far as like the actual golf product. That's a killer match play venue with all sorts of half holes and different ways to set it up. You could set it up, you know, part three or part four on some holes. So, you know, interlocking, I think that like, like that's another one that, you know, you're like, oh my gosh, like great market up there. It sounds like the Sampo is like I keep throwing out Chambers Bay. It sounds like the Sampo is kind of Seattle's our market.

and we're going to either, you know, Sahali or Chambers. So Chambers is off the table for now. And then Sleepy Hollow, you know, never been. I'm in the area. Swing. Hit me up. I was thinking about it. Max gets into this a little bit more as well.

But I have always been in of the mind that like, man, TPC sawgrass works because you go there every year. You have all these memories from number four and number 17 and 16 and 18 and all these different holes. And I actually am like kind of coming around to the tour championship being a chance to flex different venues as more of a more of a positive, unless you can go to something that's as good as TPC sawgrass every year, which TPC sawgrass, like the reason it works is because it's a really, really good golf course. It's very memorable. Because we go to East Lake every year. We see it at East Lake every year. And I'm like, dude, I've been there 10 times and I don't remember anything about that place, you know? And it's, I know they did the, the, the, the, Reno and

And it's gotten better, but it's still just a really hard place to grab onto, whereas it feels like the tour has worked so hard to be like, we need a major, we need a big property, we need something that gets golf fans really excited. And obviously this is not going to take the place of any of the majors or anything like that. But it is a zag in a way that like I would be pumped at the beginning of the year to talk about like, oh shit, the tour championship is going to interlocking in LACC. Like that's awesome.

The same way we would be like the U.S. opens going to Oakmont or Shinnecock or whatever. You know, it is a, it's a different way to get in that conversation, but it's like kind of the same conversation. Well, and it's pretty clear. Like, Rolap is, is rolling with the, uh, the NFL news cycle strategy of like, you know, just sprinkling information. Like having that be a part of the conversation anyway, yeah, look forward to, you know,

in a couple months, we're going to announce the tour championship venues for next year. And, you know, that'll come out, you know, maybe 18 months in advance, 16 months in advance, of that and like you can look forward to that or maybe they have they do a us GA style and start rolling those out several years in advance and we can do that thing where we look at the future Walker Cup venues and say oh my god look at look at where they're going in this one like it man it it it's still a lot of words it's still we haven't seen a lot of this come to fruition and we haven't seen any of the challenger championship match but we haven't seen any of this it's just roll up announcing these things but it's pretty darn easy to get excited about

someone that's been able to put this much change into process this quick can speak so clearly on it, has clearly, I wouldn't say, from what I can gather, garner the respect of the players, the trust of the players to figure out the answers to the tough questions when he doesn't have an answer to a question in a press conference. He's very clear about that. He does not over promise on a lot of, I mean, again, that's why I get kind of hyped is like, dude, the things he does say out loud turn out to be true and the things he doesn't are like, we're going to come back on that.

And here's when. Here's where we're going to come back on, you know, stuff on eligibility and things like that. It's just he reeks of competence and at the same time willingness to shake it up. I mean, he came from a massive, massive, massive sporting brand and was not brought. You know, say what you want about Monaghan. Like Monaghan was not brought in to shake things up at the PGA tour. Rollap was and he's doing it. And it's just very easy to get excited about what is.

possible because we're not hit every time we bring up an idea of like you don't understand it contracts this is how we do it we've thought about it you haven't and now it just legitimately seems like they're putting things into place that like fans are saying and that's a north star for them max talks about that as well like the north star seems to be the fans for once i i think was thinking again thinking about this morning just as as he's rolling through this and i i was like man I'm really excited about watching postseason golf for the first time and a very, very long time, probably maybe ever. And it's just such a stark difference from the last couple years where not to pretend like we're exempt from this in any in any stretch. But this world where like golf media has kind of had to pretend to be MBAs or lawyers or geopolitics experts.

And it's just like, you know how long it's been since it's just been like, oh, what if this player played this player? Do you guys think that would be fun? you know and it's like we're feels like we're kind of back to having some of those conversations and I know maybe they're trying to sweep some of the other stuff under the rug like front running the charity stuff I thought was super interesting today that that almost felt like a kind of next battleground being super loudly nothing's changing on charities like well I wasn't thinking about that until you said it but okay that that's one thing who knows what happens with sponsors who knows what happens with like you know eligibility and all that

stuff is still kind of remains to be seen. But man, it feels like they're getting the fan stuff right. And it feels like for the first time in five fucking years, maybe fans can just kind of focus on like the golf rather than like, you know, it almost reminds me like when people start talking about movies. And instead of it's just like, did you like the movie or did you not?

And people get way into just like, well, how it performed at the box office. What you got to, it's like, it's not your money, man. Who gives a shit about how it performs? Who cares how the business outside of this stuff works?

Can we just get back to like talking? and a little bit about is the golf fun to watch or is it not and who do you think's going to win and it just seems like this massive step in that direction i think the excitement is like is in the change right is in the the unknown like they don't have to nail every single one of these things either they're going to get stuff wrong along the way but progress and new stuff is fun inherently and i think that i mean shit i'm i'm already thinking about you know like like would posse tempo ever be a fit right probably not it's pretty remote in Santa Cruz there but what if it was like that would be you know or like you know people throw abandoned dunes all the time as like you know like

all right grow up Peter Pan but you know what if there's there's only 16 guys like maybe you could do that you know so I think the um that and then I do think that I'm really curious to see like we ran through that whole schedule exercise for 2028 and with the Olympics in there in L.A. don't know how that's going to work like on the with lACC on the back end of the olympics uh with these guys playing like five out of six weeks maybe in kind of that july august time frame uh that's a pretty jammed up schedule so i'll be really curious to see you know as we matriculate from this idea phase to the details probably coming out next year around the players um you know just exactly how this looks you know into twenty twenty eight but but is it

Isn't it, it is interesting T.C., but isn't it weird to sit here and just be like, well, these people that are doing it, they're decidedly not clowns. Like, I'm kind of like, I'm like, I think they'll figure that out. Like, I think they're like, what they will, the conclusion they will reach, I think will be like, that's pretty reasonable. Not perfect, but like that's pretty reasonable versus like the previous regime. If they try to do this, I'd be like, I will believe it when I see it. I'm sorry.

I will. And I don't think it will happen. And then I think the hope then, too, is like, all right, if, let's say it's, Sleepy Hollow and Interlock and an LACC, if it goes well, they've proven the model, then it's, all right, cool, let's go to, let's go to Seminole or let's go to Cyprus, let's go to Chicago Golf Club, and, you know, they'll open, I think they kind of got out over their skis and mentioning some of those off the bat, but, you know, it's, you know, those places love doing TC is really disrupting. They love just, like, unproven concepts. Let us, let us just open the kimono here.

being used as a carrot. Yeah, exactly. So I think, yeah, it'll take a couple years to figure it out. But, you know, if it's positive, then I'm sure they'll get rewarded for it. Is there, we're very kumbaya here. Anything, Solie, besides a group, you know, some concerns on the group stuff and how it'll be portrayed, anything else? What do you guys not like about this? Anything else that kind of you're bumping on?

Let me talk about this some of Max. I promise it's coming up here soon. We keep teasing and I know. but like I'm not like positive this won't feel bolted on in year one. You know, I don't think it's going to be super easy for this to feel like the granddaddy of them all from the jump. I think a lot of that's going to come down to like how serious the players sell it and how excited they are about it and kind of what kind of atmosphere they're able to create around these events and whatnot. But it's it's not, that's not a guarantee for me, I think, sitting here as of right now. At least that's going to be something you have to earn over years.

You mentioned it earlier. It's not even really related to the playoffs or the postseason. It's more just them kind of front-running the charity thing, which I think Lucas Glover's been pretty vocal about, hey, my mandate as the new PAC chair is to make sure that that stays top of mind. Everything's been money for the players, money for the players, and they've gone to a for-profit model. But I think between that Finchum announcement yesterday and just some of this stuff today,

it seems like maybe they're going to more of a centralized model on the charity stuff, and they're going to give a smaller sliver of the pie, a much smaller sliver of the pie, based on what I've heard from various host organizations, like their fee is going way, way up to be a PGA tour event. And they're given a smaller sliver of the total cut to these charities, but maybe making a more focused concentrated effort, you know, on, you know, like just more of a targeted thing. So I think that'll be a really interesting thing as we as we move along here over the next 18 months. The only thing I was going to add, I mean, I think it's natural every

time you talk about match play is like, well, what if you get a stinky, what if you get a stinky final? What if you get X player versus Y player and nobody wants to watch it? And I think that is a very inherent risk. Granted, it's the top 30 two players in the world. Hopefully it should be good. The flip side of that coin, I feel like is,

I was again thinking about it today, especially when they rolled out the hype video. I mean, which was sick. How many PJ tour events did Stephen Ames play in? Hundreds. Hundreds. What do people know Stephen Ames for? Right?

9 and 8. Yeah, that's it. And no offense to him. but like that's the power of the power of mag grand the power of tiger woods but it's the power of matchplay as well yes i think i think plenty of offense to stephen ames i don't think anybody likes stevenames the i think that there's a uh i think there's a power of match play to like we say this with scottie where it's like well scottie didn't get interesting until he won 10 times on the pjta tour that's really hard to do slash kind of impossible i think in matchplay

you can kind of microwave the personality and the graviton of some of these guys a little bit faster. You see that at the Ryder Cup where it's like, here's this no-name person that you've, you know, whoever, Thomas Peters, right? It's just like, holy shit, that guy is bawling out and now I'm going to think about him differently

forever, right? And it's like, I bet I could do this to you, I think you were there. Jason Dave versus who at Dub Mountain. I bet the match. Oh, do we saw. I thought you were talking about President's Cup. Yeah.

No, no, no. When that happened, everybody remembered that. Like that, that was a, you know tiger had the huge comeback uh in the against who you probably remember that one on the wednesday of the old match j b holmes it's exactly right but it's catnip for casuals like it's it is mono and mono it's the red team playing the blue team right and it's very easy to digest and understand and i think it's yeah it's like number maybe not one and two i mean scotty and rory are kind of in a world of their own but number seven is so much closer to number 32 than

it's ever going to seem. And to hold 32 to just like, well, you got to win five times before anybody gives a shit is, it's just really hard. And it's, I think it kind of, it kind of in a weird way dovetails with what they're doing with the challenger track as well, where it's like if you have all these on ramps to get these guys into the ecosystem, get them on this challenger track and kind of get them into a chance where they can become a,

I just think they can maybe not superstar, but I think they can become recognizable names much, much faster through the challenger stuff through match play through all of these these different things yeah yeah uh we'll we'll find out man i again i think that part of the reason why wgc match play went away or wasn't working in a lot of ways was like it was just a match play tournament and it was not it was not this this is different yes this is different and i'd like that tournament it was good variety but uh this is decidedly different from that uh because couple other, just smaller things that roll up commented on,

and some might, maybe not even smaller things that roll up, comment on it in some way today. He did, of course, get a question about live players returning here. I believe this is Gabby Herzig from the athletic asking this question. And here is his answer, question and answer here in full. Live players returning, I guess what is your personal opinion on them coming back, just as a leader, as someone with a conception of, you know, the sports entertainment, and the need for stars? to come back and play on the PGA tour,

and how does that compare to what you're hearing from players and stakeholders in the tour? Well, you asked about my personal feelings, and that's one thing, but in this job, you have to take into account everybody's feelings and all stakeholders. And I think what I would say on that is I think fans are clear where they want to see the best golfers

competing week in and week out. Our competitive model that we've been working on is an attempt to get closer to that standard. I would also say three things when it comes to live players or anyone else who wants to be on the PGA tour. One, the PGA tour is built on meritocracy. Every player, whether they're already here or they're trying to be here,

they're going to earn a place based on their performance and on their success. That's core principle of the sport, and it certainly is of the PGA tour. Two, the tour is a membership organization and has rules. Those rules exist for lots of reasons, for fair, competitive reasons. They exist so we can actually create the tour, as you know it. Rules matter.

And three, rules will only matter if they're enforced. So accountability and discipline are essential to any organization. and certainly for the integrity of the tour and for the game, especially in a game that prides itself on rules and integrity. So those are guiding principles for us. Rules matter. Again, I've been very public that I want to do what's best for the PGA tour, and that's still my guiding principle,

and whatever happens, those will be the guiding principles. I did absolutely adore the timing of a question very shortly after that about Rory not meeting the minimum 15. numbers and well that rule we're going to look at that one don't worry about what your brother's doing okay what the point is you did not finish cleaning up your room and we're going to drag i'm going to talk to him don't worry about that but just we're going to focus on the issue at hand here johnny johnny rumbo don't get any ideas yeah they're getting any ideas uh no good stuff i i love it i love it's good answer man it's not going to be it's not as simple as they're going to

they're going to be of great value to the tour, let them right back in. Like that is the side statement of that is not going to be that simple. They broke rules that everyone else in the organization that is currently playing on the PJ tour adhered to and followed. They didn't. They've paid their penance, their penalties and are back on the PJ tour, Brooks and read of that. But it will not be a wave back through the door thing for Bryson and Rom and any of those,

any of those guys. It was pretty clear answer. I didn't catch it. What was was club pro guy there? asking them. I don't know who, there was a gentleman with a very deep voice that sounded like a little bit of a club pro guy voice there asking some pointed questions.

Asked a good, good question right off the jump. That was, that was, yeah, he got hit with that one hard. He asked, do you believe good good took enough accountability after the whole Callaway

debacle? Roelhepp said, I think initially no. I think what we saw was concerning and it's clearly not aligned with PJ tour values. We take it very seriously. I think their initial response was disappointing. It was a bit defensive and late. But I think the responses are getting better.

I think we've seen some things this morning. We've had conversations with them. So we'll continue to monitor and work with them going forward. But no, we were disappointed with what we saw. Oh, God. T.C., where do you stand? Where do you stand on this? It's hard to feel kind of existential. Good. Good. Cal I put out a statement at like 2 a.m. last time. Yeah. Man, I don't know. There's a, there's a line in, uh, this movie. you bottle rocket where somebody's asking him like do you want to do you want to go water skiing or do you want to go lay out in in the sun he's like not only do i have not want to answer that question

i don't want to answer another question like that for the rest of my life that's kind of how i feel i'm starting to feel about just some of the things going on and let's just get back to who's who's the one seed and who's the 32 seed who's playing in the first round of this match play because i i just yeah i just can't can't have too much of a take on on some of this stuff sally i think the best thing is like for the first time I feel like all the live stuff was maybe worth it where like

it led us it led us to to a better place that it's like it's like you know crawling through that that you know Andy Duframi Shoshic redemption thing like oh my God like there was a reason for all this stuff

you know it yeah I see exactly where you're coming from I think I believe we even have it you you've theorized on this back in the very very very early stages of live if we have it this is supposed to be for internal use oddly no this is publicly out there you guys were so fucking wrong about everything you guys don't know what you're talking about for those that are not watching live on youtube DJ tweeted on February 3rd 2022 Bryson P. Cochrack and a number of pissed off olds don't sleep on the fact this thing could both

consolidate many of the capital worst people you know and fail to gain traction while lighting a billion and a half dollars on fire, which would be objectively sick. Six billion dollars. That was off by four to a half billion dollars. T.C. replied saying, and possibly forced the PJ tour to give a shit about their product in the process, nuke the WGCs into the sun in favor of something decent. Feels like a win-win. Yeah, fly the banner on that.

I'm pretty sure. We rocked them. We rocked them. I do think the comment from Morgan 84X DJ and TC chess move 32. I think we have got a little addicted, myself guilty as well, of like the newsish part of it and like becoming a little detached from the golf at times. And that's going to be the golf hasn't been very good. I know. I know the hard part's going to be like getting back into just the birdies and bogeys of it all with full, you know, investment.

in it. And the pediatric are not getting complacent again just because the competitor is going away. I mean it's and I don't just like mean financially. I just mean like continue to do you create an entertaining product that people want to watch and want to associate with. So, because that was definitely lacking prior

to live and they're not out of the woods on that one yet. And I think rollout has said pretty much the same. So it's going to come down. Roll-up's going to do this stuff and he's going to tackle the president's cup and he's going to tackle pace of play and equipment issues. U.S. Rider Cup team. Be the captain of that one, too, please.

It's going to come down to details. I mean, you can win the press conference. You know, you could do all that. But, I mean, that's one thing, the difference between good and great golf usually comes down to the details as well, having everything dialed. And more and more guys on tour,

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So, Sully, idea. What about if, just thinking about meritocracy and such, what do you think, let's say they put on an event and they said, all right, this is the live redemption tour, the live recidivism tour, whatever.

And, you know, however many guys can tee it up, and only... Like the hunger games. And only four of you guys are getting a car back. And the rest of you can never, ever tee it up in a PGA tour. Sounds like one of those nuclear golf poles.

Like, 50 million if you make the whole one, or you die if you don't. make it. It'd be sick. Good content for Bryson's channel too. It sounds very YouTubey. TC. It does.

It can be a co-lab. Yeah. Do you guys make anything of Bryson's Instagram post of like, he said it's been a good run or it was a good run cryptically? I regret bringing it up. What do you?

Yeah. Sounds like you want to speak out. No, I don't. I shouldn't have said anything. He's probably got a good, like, he's probably got a new running shoot coming out with with Reebok or something. Next week.

You're probably right. Yeah. It's like Tony P's, yeah, never mind. The hog reveal didn't go. Exactly as they were expecting it to. The hogs.

It was like a Travis Matthew drop or something like that. But as mentioned several times. Everybody hates Tony P. I know. I know. I know. You know, you live long enough and come to the village.

That's your boy, T.C. Tony T. and good good should collapse it's just the whole thing god it just feels so just so not even predictable just like you just see the same cycle like over and now there's going to be some youtube video like let's talk we need to talk about what happened it's just all awful is it feeling a little performative at this point like from people online i don't know for sure yeah the whole cycle is just like entire internet is performing. Yeah. I know, but

it's both like equal, it's performative but also like it was that bad. It was bad, but yeah. All just such a shit sandwich of like the stupidest thing that could have possibly happened from every angle. Even the latest ad you could have made stupidest thing that could we talked about at a BJ tour press conference.

It's all so fucking stupid. And it just like you can't wrap your head around. How any of this is real life. what's what what what's Tony peace thing all right wrap it up what was the no what is it uh something masculineity i know that I got to get offline all right we have an interview with max homa chatting about all this stuff uh he's uh he shines a ton of light on a lot of it we greatly appreciate uh max join us for this so stick around for this and uh thank you for tuning into our live show I'll be back on the back end as well to bid you guys to do but here's max home on

to talk about all the changes. Max, match play coming to the PGA tour conclusion. What's your general reaction to this? Where are you at when you heard the news or I'm sure you've been up to speed in the process as it's happening? But are you stoked? Do you hate it? Do you love it? What's up? So I definitely am in the love it camp. There's a lot of it that I totally get, you know, we don't, why people like immediately weren't, I guess jazz. Some guys, you know, do love it. the idea. But match play, we don't play match play all year. It's kind of like we joke about it in college golf. Like, it's season ends with like a match play event. And it's like you just play stroke play all season. So how are we determining it based off of that? However, you know, I'm

home right now watching the playoffs. And I totally get that there's so much of that BMW that was inconsequential. And it was a very fun golf tournament. But the main, you know, five sports and especially you see a sport-like football, every single week, it's like do or die. And that is the closest thing we can get to that. So I think that there's so much more for the fan to want to see us, you know, there's just way more volatility. I don't know. I just think it's going to be, you're going to see a lot of, like, demise and excitement all,

like immediately, kind of like a Rider Cup or President's Cup, where every day you're going to have like a highlight reel of somebody doing something awesome to win a match or whatever. So I think it's the best way to make it exciting. And at some point, we've been told by the fans that that's what they want. And at some point, you've got to pull that rip court and do it because I think it will be awesome. And everything takes a minute to get used to. But I think once people get used to, it's going to be sweet. Does it feel like best of both worlds, too?

having the, kind of that stroke play regular season finale, and then you've got like the match play. And having it over a two-week stretch makes it feel like it's got its own critical mass. Yes, and I love the idea that like the first bit of it is going to be, you know, like a group play type thing where it's not like you don't lose one match and it's just all, sorry, you're out of here, you know.

So I like that. I also like just the idea that the regular season will have its own championship and that most of like, a lot of the accolades for the season will still like end at the end of that season because I've always been a big fan of, listen, like, a season of excellence should not just whittle down to even how it works, you know, has been working for so long with just like, and at the tour championship, that is your slot for the season. And, you know, it's like, well, I've had great years and seen about great years, and they'll finish not great at Eastlake. And it's like, well, that's, you know, you finish 16th this year. I remember Rom did it one year. And I was just like, he had one of the best years, you know, and he fell. And the one that always hits home for me is Will Zalotaurus, the year he hurt his back

and had to pull out of the BMW was like at the very worst that season, basically, especially with the stagger was going to finish like fourth. and he gets hurt, has to pull out, and he gets 30th place. He gets 30 place money, like bonus money, and 30th place on his, like, card. And it's like, no, you had one of the best seasons of everybody. And there was nothing he, like, gained really from that regular season. You know, I was talking to somebody at the tour once, but I was like, imagine you just, like, you worked so hard all year and you did a really good job.

Like, you were, like, employee of the month, a couple months, and you were awesome. And on the last week of work, you went on your, you know, PTO, you went on your vacation. And that week, your boss came and said, hey, everybody, who's here? You get your bonus. It was just like, she's not there. Couldn't get it. You know, had one of the best years of anybody there. So it just felt like you weren't getting, I guess, enough credit for the regular season as far as, like, you know, like, again, it's called a bonus.

It's like, he deserved a bonus. He did it amazing. And then it all whittled down so much to like one golf front for your season's accolades. Now, I like that for your championships and whatnot. I think that's exciting for the fan. It's exciting for us. But there should be something like to credit someone like a Scotty who every single year has been winning the points list.

Like he should get something. But then it's like, hey, we can finally get away from the money, stop talking about the money and go like golf for a trophy that we should be like excited about that opportunity to win. And at some point, you've got to figure out a way to make the FedEx Cup trophy and the season long trophy, like the thing. And that's been a hard thing for whatever reason to do. And then the money gets talked about too much.

This feels like there's a separation and we can finally like focus on like who's going to win the thing, not just who's going to get like paid out. Yeah. Plus hopefully at a dope venue too. Yes. That also would be, yeah, different. Like even just rotating. Yeah, that just seems exciting as well.

So here's where I'm excited about this, but I think it's going to be really, really critical that the players are bought in and are, there's something to like, so the cop I'd make is baseball, right? There's a 162 game season. And then you get down there and it's like a five game series to start, you know? And it could.

Yeah. But that is. These guys sucked at it for a while. And you can just, you can just buy it. Anyways. But that is the baseball that, matters, right? Like if you're the Dodgers, you are going to structure your team to be like,

how can we set the advantage for that series? That's the baseball that matters. I think golf would have a long ways to go to clear that. Like, I don't think year one, it's going to be like, this is the golf that matters. We have the players championship. We have the majors. We have the season long points race. How do you, how do you anticipate this not feeling bolted on? And, you know, the energy around it being like, this is, we joke last night on the show was like, we're talking about the player of the year conversation before the season finale. Like the player of the year should just be the winner of the like how do you see what I'm getting at here.

How do we get this to where like this feels let not just a bolted on almost silly season championship at the end and yet at the same time like not take away what's happened from the regular season? That's a push pull I'm a little concerned of. Well, yeah. I think we're always going to struggle to like fight that battle of, you know, winning a major. Yeah. I don't think that will ever be. Yeah, nothing will be bigger than that. And that's just, I don't know, that's just a weird part of our sport. However, I will say that just personally, the playoffs and especially, you know, getting to the finale has felt like a bit, especially for me, I never played it when it wasn't staggered. And when it's not staggered, I know I've had one year where I did awesome. It felt impossible for me to actually win. Like I was, like, I was like,

like eight back to start an event. And so it just felt like a payday, like how well can you play to make a bunch of money? And to me, I've never played golf, like, directly for the money. I really don't think about the money very much. So it was kind of just odd. And then as the fan, I'm like, I don't know why I would care if somebody was making more money. You know, like the only time in sports, I really seem to care about that is, you know, when you have a, you know, Baker throws it to Mike Evans for a thousandth reception.

He gets a bonus. It's fun. like that's like a fun thing to not thousandth reception thousand yards or whatever he got so he like something like that is the only time as a fan you're like kind of interested in that and then it goes by the way side

if you can again when you separate the two I do feel like over time again to your point it won't be probably year one but you're gonna if you can start getting the player to be excited about how difficult is to win but how attainable it is to win it then I think you start to like put stock as a player in that like reward. I feel like it's been so

ridiculously hard to win again like any sport it is. But in football there's so many less teams. There's such a more there's with the volatility like you can get a Giants team that goes in there the or the Patriots were undefeated and they kind of like just barely get into the playoffs get dumb hot and they win and it's it's exciting. You know there's there's a lot. to that. With golf, it's like, again, I had an incredible year and one year and I am so far behind the best player in the world to start the only week that then matters to win this thing. And it's like, I don't, you know, I don't have a chance. Like, I mean, I'm playing like I do, but I just don't have a chance.

I, like, read something that year that, you know, he had lost, Scotty at the time had lost by seven to like one person for the year. Maybe nobody. Like, I don't even remember. It was just something like before the week. reading and I'm like, good God, I'm going to have to play good. And then to your point, T.C, like with one golf course, one singular golf course, East, like, especially when I played, is absolutely favored, because they had trees on the left side of like every hole. It favored a guy

who drew the ball off the team. And again, I've played great there. But yeah, Zander and Rory have just killed it. And that's great, but I just don't see how that's, when it is distilled to one solid week of stroke play that seems nuts uh and whatever so it just was hard for us to care now i will say i was someone who did very much care about trying to win that and everything i do think when you get there you are hyped to do it but it was just hard to really get that up for it now making east lake has always been like i think the goal of the season we think that's amazing that isn't that's not exciting for a fantasy like you know there's parts of it are like oh it's cool he made it you know like that they that's great but they don't get how much that like would mean to us and I don't think

that they should care about that so I think over time it because there's a separation because it will be difficult but you're going to see a lot of hopefully different types of winners you know someone who you know more or less obviously you have to have a great year to even have a chance so like you're not going to have some random person that's I think the misconception some of the players have had over the time and and I think the tour as well trying to almost like contrive yes the final and that drove me nuts because i was we're in a meeting a year or two ago and it was like well we just don't want to have someone just randomly win and i was like yo listen if you are in the top 30 or 32 or 28 at the time we were going through all these things that is

not there's no way you can say that that's not random i'm sorry like there is no year on this tour with how many events we play and and all that that that you can just like be a no name person and make it even to Eastlake and let alone win it the final. So I was like, I was so sick of hearing that. And I think finally now you're going to have the fun of it. And if it's not contrived, I mean, we had the Pacers Thunder finals was incredible. And those are two markets that typically, you know, it's not like the NBA was stoked about that for ratings. You know, they have the Knicks. And now all of a sudden it's like crazy. You need all of that. You need somewhere. It's like, wow, how did that guy win? Or wow, like this is like a quote unquote Cinderella.

like win or underdog against whatever for so long it's just been like we know ish who's gonna be there and it's just like out of those three guys who's gonna win that's just like not super exciting and there's fun to it when not when like the reason to watch yeah that's the racer's thunder j t poston versus russ henley sure it just sign me up maybe you have to have that and again over that means that over the course of that time people have there are loads and loads of fans for those people, but it's not like, you know, Rory and Scotty are the lightning rods. They just are. Like being on this fan subcommittee, man, when when they are playing well and at the top, like,

Rory could win by 50 and people watch religiously. And if there's another, if I'm winning by 50, it's just the ratings like plummet. And it's just, it's just these guys like have it. And there's just been so much like, let's make sure then that we get them. the latest possible and that's cool but at some point you have to have you have to have that uh feeling for the fan to like anything i don't know like like yeah like i don't know i'm a dodger fan this is probably a horrible thing but dodgers yankees when it did happen just out of like looking at the ratings and and from kind of the fanfare of it it was like wow this is like a miracle we get the

two biggest markets in it. And it was exciting because that wasn't, you can't contrive that. Like it just worked itself out. And then when you have other years where it's not that, it's still exciting because I'm like, oh, now I'm watching a team I don't typically see in here, whatever. I just think that that's important for the fan to be able to, the randomness of it in a way. And I do think then the players will start to really look at that as like, hey, now I can do that and it's just going to feel more attainable and then overtime i don't know theo ebstein said something years ago that just really hit home he said everything's a gimmick until it's not and uh he was talking about the pitch clock and baseball and i mean how quickly that just like became seamless and now you know

we don't even think about it but it's like one of the best things that's probably changed the sport ever uh and it just happened and the players yeah well i'm definitely pro that but we can do that a different time. But just things like that, I don't know. It just we got you got to it's again at some point you got to do it and the fans have been asking for and it's like that's all that really matters. So let's just go do it and see. And I think I think the players will enjoy it at the end of the day. What has been the sentiment amongst people you've talked to? I mean, it can't be 100% are stoked about. I know we interviewed Tony Fied out like the day the match play news came out. He was like, no, I don't like that at all. What is the general sentiment amongst, you know, from top players to, you know, guys that like yourself,

that you're describing that it's opening up a chance for you. You know, our top players maybe not as into it. Kind of take us to what the general conversation's been like. Well, I just think in general, like I said before, about the college golf kind of finale. It's like match play for us is so random. And it's not perfectly really indicative of who should, you know, always move on that week.

You could have an off day. I mean, if you look at golf just in general, wind them last week. plays just an incredible three rounds of golf. You're thinking like he's going to be probably win seven and six, seven and six, seven and six, seven and six. And then Sunday plays kind of whatever and would have lost. And I think for us, we're so used to if you play the best for a week, you win. And it's all just tailored exactly to like who is the best player for a week. So matchplay has always been an icky thing for everybody. I mean, one of the greatest records that I will not

never be broken and I in my opinion and that doesn't get enough credit is like tiger winning six straight match play golf tournaments throughout the in the junior am to the am like that's just so many matches to just like not lose so that's difficult now I do think that the structure of like the pool play into you know a little bit more just straight up like March madness is better because it'll give you a chance to kind of like lose but still have a chance to move on So I do think that'll help, but the players definitely, like, I just think anytime it gets brought up, you're just kind of like, you know, match play is just such a coin toss. But I think that's what sports are. I think that that's like fun.

And again, if the season long race, especially with the payout, the bonus, all those things, a lot of that is getting handled before that. This becomes like its own like just championship golf tournament. Again, something that I think over time players will be like so now I want to win that. Like that is how the playoffs in sports work. So it's, I think that'll land. But it's not that people are just completely against it. It's just, man, like, how's this going to work? We've also really been worried about the whole TV thing because as you get later,

you have less matches on the course when people lose and there's still a match for, you know, we saw it at the World Cup this year, like the third place. That was like a match. It was. Yeah, it was. That's always, you know, especially in America, I just think we're like, why in the world are we doing this? like who cares about this. But I do think that as when you watch it, you're like, oh, this is fun.

So I think there's been a bit of worry about that. And that's what we've been told for so long is that like match plays tough because on a Sunday there's one match that matters and blah, blah, blah. So I think people have been hesitant to it. But again, I am in the camp that I think it's going to be cool. And I think we need to go see it before we just completely write it off. And again, when it comes down to it, I'm going to keep saying it. But the fans have been asked for this.

And like, that is what matters. So let's do that. like why would we not do that we've kind of fallen flat quite a few times on how this is going to work and that's just been i'm kind of tired of like dancing around it and uh so as much as the players might have some pushback i do think that i'm i'm pumped that the tour's just like yeah we're going to do it and i'm way more people than not are like cool with it again but it's just there's of course some hesitancy to it is a humongous change for how you know it's it's different than any term we play all year so

But so are the playoffs in other sports. So I like that. I do wish that we didn't call ours playoff so early because it didn't feel like it. But now that we kind of fully bought into that, it's like then we need to make it where there's a lot of, there's a lot at stake each day. Match play take golf tournaments, stroke play tournaments go like this. They crescendo towards the very end.

Match play flips that. It is like the reason the first tee at the Ryder Cup is exciting is like it starts from the jump. And if you don't have it, for a while you do not have 72 holes to get going and that sound that can sound like nails on the chalkboard to a golfer that plays 72 all stroke play tournaments but the fan that can be like okay let's go i will not miss the first three holes of a match i i can tune out for the first three holes on thursday like i do not need to see that i can catch up on it but for match play that flips that and that's where i think the thinking has been backwards of like what if we get a bad final it's like

well what if you get a great wednesday like that you know it could be it's like that first The first weekend of March Madness. Yes. Totally. None of that necessarily matters. Like if the 16 wins, they don't like win the whole thing, but it's fun. My coach Mark Blackburn said my first president's cup that he goes, he loves these things for the player because at the end of one week of a team event, you have a rolodex of highlights.

You can use the rest of your life. You can make a put for par on the first match on Thursday. in some alternate shot format, and you will remember that forever. So when you have a big put later in your career, you're going to be like, man, what's your favorite shot you ever hit? I hit this bunker shot on Thursday at the President's Cup on 16, and I just like think about it all the time. If that was a stroke play event, that bunker shot's cool,

but I'm not pumping my chest and like high-fiving people, you know? And I think, you know, kind of transition that into like how the fans could see it. that will be something that to your point, Sally, about like the first tee, like, you better be up. I was playing that match against Victor when he chipped in on the first hole in Rome. I mean, it was the loudest thing in the world.

And it set a tone, like, holy cow. And I don't know, you just don't, if he chips that in on the first hole of a tournament, it's cool, man, but it's not. Yeah, it's just a birdie. So I just think that that is going to turn out to be so exciting for everybody. Again, hopefully the players all,

continue to like that. I think they will. Match play is fun because it is straight up do or die. You can get a day where you shoot eight under and lose. You can get a day where you shoot two over and win, but it is just about win your match. Figure out a way to win your match. And, you know, some things are going to change. Some ways you're going to play holes are going to change. Just like how in baseball, over a 162, you play Blackjack. And you play a five game series, especially maybe, you know, even in the seven game series. And it's like, hey, Yamamoto is going to pay. hitch every day. So we're just going to have to figure out. He's going to have to figure that.

You know, it's just stuff like that is is so fun and different. You would never do that in the regular season. You're not going to maybe, you know, bun as much. You're not going to play the same exact game. And I love that idea. And I am excited for how it's going to look and translate to the fans on TV. I think that just stuff is, I think there's just so much excitement to it. And there's just going to be highlight after highlight after highlight. Instead of hoping to God, we have a close Sunday where then the highlights pop. out. I think now people are going to remember so much more of each year. Like, oh, do you remember in that, you know, 28 finale when so and so on Thursday made that? I mean, when Tiger comes back against

J.B. Holmes, like, that's the stuff. Like, that would not, that was such a fun day. And it's just, and it's something that I think, like, like so many people remember. And I mean, most often, it's not like J.B. and Tiger are duking it out on Sunday. It's because Tiger was up by so many on everybody by the end of so many events. Now it's like, hey, we're going to get this every single day, a lot of these highlights, and it's going to really matter. So I just, I, I, I, that's why I like it, because I am a golf fan before a golfer. And I've, I, I just want excitement. And that just seems more exciting. Plus the venue, like, I think, I think match play allows to have these great venues and, you know, over the edge setups that are going to, that are going to dictate having more drama, right?

instead of, like, we can't put this pin on this slope because it's not fair. Yeah. No, it's two guys out there, doing it out. Yeah. Exactly. My only, this has been my only real hang up. I'm all for the kind of, they've been saying the signature venues and go into, I don't even know how to put like exclusive places.

I've always been about rotating. I've been a bit worried about the signature idea of it up until, I guess, a few days ago when Adam Scott was talking about it to us, but so much of the playoffs in every sport and ours, I think revolves around the fan energy at the event. And some of these, you know, kind of signature courses and that model will allow for less fanfare, I guess, at the event. And I think it shows on TV personally. Like, I just think that, you know, when it's 12 million degrees,

and no one's out there watching, which I do not blame them. I actually blame the people out there for because I don't know what they're doing. You can feel it, you know, you don't get, the roar just kind of fall flat. However, I will say that there will be years where it's at a place, maybe that doesn't have the infrastructure for tons of people, but then there's going to be a year the next time it does. And I just, I actually think that that's kind of what Adam was explaining. And I'll say, you know what, that actually makes sense.

Not every year is going to be, you know, East, like, like where they're running behind tiger and rory and it just feels like there's every person in the world is at that golf tournament there's going to be other years where it's you know the the course is the story um but i think having that as an option is really cool and that's when i think i'm going to kind of be on the side of like over years i'm like why did we not do this forever and as you guys point i was so fascinating because the course can be the story so often and when you have have the same one every year and people are used to it that that story kind of just gets played out. So I think that will be cool. And especially if we can go to some of these places I've been

pitched. I don't really know how that would that would work. But like most of us, I haven't played most of those places. So that would be so cool. Like places that when you're in that town, you're like, man, I wonder if I can get over there and play some this week or whatever. So I think that that that will end up being good. That has been my hang up because I want it to look cool on TV. But I think that I think blending that with match play where it's just like do or die, then it all kind of comes together. But I'm with you for the setup stuff. It's like you're going to get a lot less people so overly concerned about it being perfect.

And again, in golf, that's just such an impossible game. Yeah, fair. It's just impossible. But on our end, that's what we want because we want to prove that over four days I played better than you did. And if there's some funky whatever, like that might deter from that. In this case, it's like each day, I'm just playing a guy and I got to beat that guy. So I think it'll end up evening itself out in a good way. Max, last question for you.

What, just the process of this. It feels like the tour is kind of gone from asking, you know, instead of finding reasons why something won't work, it's like chasing an idea of like, no, like this, this would be a great improvement to the product. Let's, let's figure out a way to make it work.

Has that been kind of the guiding light? Like, and you're someone who, who hasn't been in the room for a lot of these meetings are taking this to you, like on the on the on the larger membership what have you felt like well i'm kind of the longer answer to this is i know a lot of people who are in the room i respect and admire so much the time they've put into this and the models they've thrown out and how many have just immediately by the players

just been like they get you know jumped on for it and i wish people would give it a second and like to breathe because i do think that a lot of the ideas have been shot down have been good but the time that they've put into this is really remarkable. And I do think that they should be given a lot more credit for, like, just how much work's gone into the kind of like storyboard? How are we going to make this work? And what are we going to change? But I think it starts with, again, like, the fans said they want X, Y, and Z.

Like, okay, what of that is feasible, possible? And what part is just not going to be what they think it is. And then it's, okay, but if like this is, if X is, what they want, how do we make that happen instead of just being like, we can't do that. I remember another story, Theo Epstein told us about the whole baseball thing as they asked baseball fans, like, what are your favorite parts about baseball? And they were like, you know, in play action, so like diving catches, whatever. And home runs and then stolen bases was one of them. And they went through. He's like, all right, we got to, how do we make bases, or stealing bases

is more of a thing because it just has become not. It's not, you know, the smartest thing to always try. It's just so hard to do. And they went through all these things and finally someone was just like, what if we made the bases bigger? So sick. It's so sick, but it's just the whole,

his whole point was he says, we are going to figure out how to do this. We're not just gonna say, ah, we can't. That's not how that works. And I was like, man, that's just, that's the answer to everything, to your point T C. It's like how, how do we do it?

So match play, again, like a thousand iterations. I've, not maybe not heard, but thought of and heard so many of them and been like, that's not going to work, that's not going to work. But it just was like, we're going to figure out a format that this works, where it is quote unquote fair for the player in some way and where it is what the fan has been clamoring for. So I just think that, again, I try my best when they bring an idea

to recognize that this isn't just the idea they came up with 45 minutes ago. It's difficult because so many players, the first thing you do, or so many people, I guess, just immediately go like, well, yeah, but that part won't work. And it's like, yeah, great. But like, can we keep the, can we keep kind of like the nucleus of this? And like, how can we make that work? And I'm really pumped for the, that the, that the players, that the higher-ups have, like,

kept that focus because at so many, like, turns of this, they could have just been like, you know what, let's just do X instead. And it would have been so much easier. But they kept kind of pushing for it. Like we're going to make this thing with the nucleus be a part of it. Like how? And I'm very proud of that for them because that is hard. You know, our PAC meetings especially, not the board ones that I haven't been in.

The pack wins are fun. Everyone's, there's so many people and there are so many opinions. And it gets distilled sometimes to just like the smallest part where you're just like pulling your hair out because you're like, that part is, we can change that. Like don't hang up on that. And I did that. I did that last meeting about this. the signature course thing, I was like very kind of just like, how is this going to work?

Like this, you know, what if nobody comes out? And then that's again, why it's important to have these people who are, one, so much smarter than me, but two, have worked on this so much longer than I have or thought about this so much longer than I have where it's like, yeah, I know what you're saying, but like, look at it like this and it's like, oh, yeah, you guys have spent so much more time on this than I have. So, but it's tough, you know, our doors, you know, 220 equal people or however many people we have equal opinions, equal everything. and, you know, like eight of them or whatever are working on this 24-7.

So it's like unfair for me to just come up like, nah, I don't like that. It's like, yeah, I'm sure that they thought about that. So you ask the questions you work through it, but they've held strong in all these things, and I'm pumped for them with that because I love this. I do hope that we stop changing so often. That's been old news. I mean, I'm very tired of having to do this every like two or three years. You know, just have these, like, the press release at the finale about like what we're changing.

But I do think that this has some legs. It's gonna take a minute for people to get used to, but I think it's just gonna be a thousand times more exciting and cutthroat. And I just think fans love that. So good for the guys who made this happen because it's a big sweeping change, but it is directly impacted

and pushed along by the fans' opinions of what they love and what they want to see. Awesome. Appreciate your time, as always. Max, thanks for joining us today. And yeah, we're stoked to see it as well. And best of luck with the fall and whatever you got going, man. It's a, it's a, you know, different time, different, different, different era.

Yeah, mostly just school drop-off. So that's about what I got going on this time of year nowadays. It used to be sitting on my butt, but now it's actually way harder. Yeah. Thank you, my friend. See you guys. All right, that's going to do it for today's show. in the spirit of things that, you know, we've been asking the PGA Tour to do and putting into motion,

there is a premiere tonight 8 p.m. Eastern Time on the PJA Tour YouTube channel of Chasing Sunday. The second iteration of that will be from the BMW Championship. They had wind of miced up for all of it. They hit the jackpot with this one, getting the winner of the tournament in there. We've long asked for an NFL sounds of the game, the one from the players, I thought was excellent, some really good content. So the second iteration of that is coming tonight as well. this week, the NOU podcast is brought to you in part by The Nest.

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