No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - 1224: LIV's Treasure Trove of Documents + Weekly Recap

Episode Date: October 26, 2026

With the Butterfield headed for a Monday playoff after the tournament was shortened to 54 holes, we spend tonight’s pod chatting about the latest updates from LIV 2.0 including DJ’s top ten favorite LIV website domain names and other notes from the LIV bankruptcy filings. Then it’s on to updates from international golf course architecture including Coul Links, potential Royal County Down changes and Tiger’s new links design in Northern Ireland plus some miscellaneous news and notes and personal golf updates. Timestamps 00:00 - Intro + Butterfield Recap 9:00 - LIV 2.0 updates 18:30 - DJ’s top ten LIV web domain names 29:00 - LIV bankruptcy filing notes 54:00 - International golf architecture updates 1:16:00 - Misc news and notes 1:22:30 - Personal golf updates Support our Sponsors: Titleist Holderness & Bourne Lagoon Sleep If you enjoyed this episode, consider joining⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ The Nest⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: No Laying Up’s community of avid golfers. Nest members help us maintain our light commercial interruptions (3 minutes of ads per 90 minutes of content) and receive access to exclusive content, discounts in the pro shop, and an annual member gift. It’s a $90 annual membership, and you can sign up or learn more at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠nolayingup.com/join⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Subscribe to the No Laying Up Newsletter here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://newsletter.nolayingup.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Subscribe to the No Laying Up Podcast channel here: https://www.youtube.com/@NoLayingUpPodcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Be the right club today. That's better than most. That is better than most. Better than most. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No Laying Up podcast. Solly, you're still light out here as we're recording a fall episode.

Got my guy TC here with me. Hello, TC. Hey, I just, I've got Brewers fever courtesy of DJ. Something going to run. Baseball. DJ Pyes here. Hello, Dej. How are you doing? Game three

was tonight. No, game three is tomorrow. Oh, all right. Well, they need to fix the app because I thought there was going to be an off night. But you open it up. Fix the app. Might have some people going to live. It looks like it's not going to be a lockout if they fixed the app. No, as far as the players know, I believe game three is tomorrow.

But we are here tonight to talk about some G, guys. And it's just, it's good to be with you. Tonight's show, we are barely going to talk about the Butterfield. but we will mention the Butterfield. We've got a trove of live stuff to get into some really good stuff. Tranch. The documents released. It's trotch season.

We've got a little bit of an architecture corner, some ongoings in the world of design, championship golf. A lot of those things of that nature around the world. We're going to talk a little bit about that. Some odds and ends. Some silly season team stuff to chat about a golf game update or two. Who knows what else? We're going to get to some winners around the world.

Yuto Katsura Gara. Gosh, I practiced it. and I still feel like I butchered it. Wins the Genesis in South Korea on the DP World Tour. Yuri Yoshita wins the BMW Ladies' Championship. John Catlin wins the Link Hong Kong Open. This episode is brought to you by Titleist, and we do not have a PGA tour winner as of now

because we've got an all ProV-1X playoff tomorrow in Bermuda between Austin Smotherman and Seamus Power. Obviously, some pretty intense win this week at Port Royal. One thing that's absolutely essential when playing in conditions like those is having trust in your golf ball. You need to know that it's going to fly out of the right window, spin the right amount, hold its line and crosswinds like you're expecting to. And guys, unsurprisingly, every player in the top five and nine of the top 10 this week.

We're playing at ProV1 or ProV1X golf ball. Go to Titles.com to find out which model is right for your game. I'm dying to get my hands on this 2027 golf ball. I've been hearing some amazing things. I tested it this week in the wind. Aerodynamic, very aerodynamic. I don't know how we're going to marry this out, T. We're going to do a golf game update at the end where you're playing very poorly.

I don't know how we're going to work that into a positive ad read. Very unrelated. Sounds like he was flighting it just like not. I would just just maybe into hazards and things like that. But the ball was fighting through the width. Yes. Yeah, John Catlin and then Sean Crocker too, just another. Yeah, kind of birds of a feather.

Yeah, kind of vagabondy worldwide careers and DEP World Tour had a great social post. Crocker got his. Like, I think he finished 100th, got up into the top 100. He shot 29 to get to top 100 on the back nine, on his final nine to get in the top 100. And he had a whole tearful thing about, you know, he's, he's a new father and, you know, just not having to go to Q school and all that. Of course, there's the flip side of that. He bumps Eddie Pepperel down to 101. Eddie had a great thing on, on Instagram today, among other things.

Eddie's put out a couple good things. Big content week for Eddie. Eddie. Yeah, exactly. Great substack write-up that was about this exact potential. Yeah, we're getting ahead of ourselves. So we'll get to it. Well, we have that played out on the PJ tour this week.

I have an official statement here just before we hit record. Do the unfavorable weather forecast for Monday at the Butterfield Bermuda Championship and the uncertainty surrounding the completion of the entire final round on Monday. The tournament results will be considered final through 54 holes in accordance with PJTor regulations. A playoff between Seamus Power and Austin Smotherman will be conducted to determine. to determine the champion. Ten will be scheduled for 9 a.m. local time on Monday,

subject to weather conditions. Playoff will be broadcast live on golf channel. Don't love it. I felt like I talked to some players this morning. They were sending me some videos from just around the island. Didn't look crazy. I think there was some Gus. It looked like they were maybe a little bit premature and canceling it.

And then the fact that, you know, The rest of the field can improve their position, but two guys can. I don't know, man. I don't know if I like it. Kind of like, do we need this tournament? Like, do we have it in the middle of the ocean? I kind of like watching it. It's fun.

It's good viewing Thursday Friday. Yeah, it's windy, but like, you know, you're literally out there on an island. And there's got to be a lot of considerations, both with the severity and the exposure that they have out there with, you know, tents and insurance and all the things out there. I don't know. I get why they got there and I'm not a meteorologist, but I was trying to figure out, like, because the weather looks bad for Monday,

what would happen if they can't even do a playoff over like several coming days? Could they just split? Have there been split winners ever before on the PJ tour? Can't do a playoff or won't do a playoff. Exactly. You know, I feel like,

you know, possible is nothing. They could do a playoff if they want. It's a matter of whether they, whether they will. Do they have courage? I feel like I had I had dozens and dozens of pages of notes about the butterfield that I wanted to get to. I don't really feel comfortable, you know, spilling a bunch of that with the result uncertain.

So I'm going to probably hold most of my my comments on this tournament. This was a bit of a flip the switch for me. I kept, you know, it's an exciting week here in Milwaukee. I truly was like, all right, man, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, like, let me, let's lock in. What's going on? what's what's happening at the butterfield and you get you get 10 15 20 names down you're just like all right we'll double back on this on sunday and yeah it's you know is what it is we've got a lot of these tournaments they can't all be the best uh i guess is what's what i'll say was that clip of adam shank

the deciding to think three and four iron was that this year or last year i think that was this year i think that was from this week okay okay yeah you never know with scratch the scratch posted that and i I saw the headline. I just assumed that I hope I didn't get got. But it was, it was great, it was great content. But yeah,

I just, I saw all of how windy it was. I saw some clips going around. So, nope, that was a, that was a year, a year ago.

Really? Yeah. Excellent. Yeah. I mean, rest of the top, we got, uh,

leader board wise. Solly, I mean, first of all, I hate this for the Irish. Shame his power is not, not going to get his due on this year podcast. If he ends up winning.

but you got smotherman power taylor more corey conners ben silverman uh are your top five hoagy kirk chan kim danny walker chanler blanchei and tc we're good t-11 t-11 who do we got cam davis luke clinton baby luke clinton another another good result for luke clinton sallie you starting to worry at all i remember looking at the leaderboard last night and being I'm like, oh, okay, well, it's pretty disastrous right now. At least there's one more day. Like, I mean, something could happen here to make this interesting. And we got, yeah, perhaps the most uninspiring.

You know what we're not going to do that? We're not going to move back the Sunday recording of this episode to, to include the winner of this one. So I think we wish that, you know, we wish everybody the best. Hope they're going to get a good winner between Smotherman and Seamus Power, both just completely adept pros, you know, deserving winners on both sides. And we'll circle back when we get there.

Power's been in the wilderness the last few years. His game really fell off over the last year or two. So good to see him playing well again. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's kind of how it works for Smotherman. He can't, he's already 52 in the FedEx Cup. And he can only move up one spot from here.

He's got another win this fall, obviously. And power is, you know, it's projecting right now that he goes from 103 to 53, but that's projecting a win. I don't know exactly what he would go to. if he's runner up there. But safely inside the top 100 for that to be the case. Yeah, I mean, powers fallen from, he was well inside the top 50 in the world. He's down close to 200th in the world right now.

So anyway. Yeah, we hadn't heard from the Irish for a while on that one. But you could transition to the next top, but you could tell me he left for Liv. And I'd have been like, oh, I think I missed that. I totally missed that. But he might be coming back at this point because a lot of news came out this past. week about guys that are saying so long to the Live Golf Tour.

A few of those names. I'm not even sure I've captured them all. Honestly, Louis Oostezen is out. Ian Polter is out. Tyrol Hatton is out. Lucas Herbert is out. Brandon Grace and Tom McKibben are some of the top names that have, I believe, publicly announced or acknowledged that they will not be joining

Live 2.0, whatever that looks like. Does Grace get to bring the Rhino drive with him? Wherever he goes. Split that up. Oostezen, obviously. owns equity in that. Yeah, that'll be interesting

how that shakes out. That's what's just so hard. Because like in the Rhino jive, they told us it was Southern Guards forever. And I'm just struggling to marry the two because it, like it, it kind of looks like to me

that when the money ran out, the Southern guards were no more. But I don't know. I haven't done a lot of digging into that. But that's just kind of, if I was to maybe join the dots on those two things. The Saudis have the first right, to the assets and, you know, payouts, like they have the primary, uh, they're first in the

pecking order because they're technically the Saudis are owed four or five hundred million dollars according to the bankruptcy filing. So technically the Saudis might own the the Rhino Jive. Or it could be a, you know, a PGL thing. Maybe the fans own the Rhinel the Rhinel Jive. No one owns the Rhino Jive. Maybe it could be a TGL thing. Yeah, exactly. Terrorist Golf League. we'll get there. Reportedly committed, there's some actually some more reporting that came out.

Can we gobble back to Poulter's thing about going to spend more time with the family as his reason for his reason for dropping out, which is also his reason for going there. That's so sick. Nothing. I know nothing matters and we kind of have said nothing matters for a long time here, but that's just the most crystal clear example of just I'm leaving for live golf to spend more time with my family.

I unfortunately am going to be leaving LiveGolf to spend more time with my family. I've got to respect it. Annie wants to play senior golf too. Yeah. For the listeners' sake, we've teased this a couple times. We did this past week spend, I believe, over eight hours recording the beginning of what we're calling the oral history of LiveGolf.

So we've already, you haven't heard it yet. It's going to start coming out probably as of this coming week. We have already spent a lot of hours of our time this week, breaking down, live, looking back at it retrospectively, you'll get a whole heck of a lot more of that here in the coming weeks, really upcoming months, because this is going to take us. We got through eight hours and we were only through 2023 in our recording for the record. So it also, if you hear anything that sounds outdated in that, you know,

stuff's changing on a nearly daily basis here. I am a little afraid that it's going to already start feeling that way. So, but with that in mind, we'll get kind of into kind of what, you know, the names that are reportedly committed as of now, though, at least as of late in the week, Bryson, Richard Bland, Pat Perez. Is this Ben Campbell? I see what's Ben Campbell. Cam Tringale and Brendan Steele.

There was an article from our friend, Sajid Endop from the Financial Times that said that around 15 golfers have tentatively committed to the private equity-backed successor to live golf. Several players expected to join next week, indicating enough interest for the startup league to seek a final deal in the coming days. BC Partners is seeking a league of at least 20 to at least 30 to 40 players to start.

A $4 million bankruptcy financing BC had called for player commitments to be received by Sunday, a deadline which is likely to extend given the initial interest it has secured. The Athletic also report on Sunday that some members of the wheel group led by Dustin Johnson are tying their commitment to live 2.0 to their live 1.0 payouts being satisfactorily resolved. The wheel group. I'm, there's a group of people working under a certain, I only pulled a few quotes from the article here, but there's a group under a certain set of lawyers that are seeking. That's in Gabby Herzig's reporting at the athletic.

Class action suit, basically. Yeah. We demand to be paid. Is there a claiming group too? I don't know. Yeah. We're trying to get a league of extraordinary gentlemen together here to save this thing. And it's, it's, I don't know about, extraordinary, I feel like would be a strong word as far as who's committed thus far.

but there was a line of that financial times thing that they have like you said enough enough technically enough people committed to get going we don't we don't have all of those names i think that was in there um but yeah it's just a what a weird weird in between time we we find ourselves in and trying to i feel a little bit like you said solid we've had we've been doing these like oral history deep dives and as you go back and you read you know the first met the first mention of SSG or the first of, you know, PJ Tor Enterprises, you're like, I feel how, I remember how I felt when I heard those. And it was kind of this murky, muddy, like, I'm trying to read everything. I'm trying to figure out what's going on. I feel a little bit like that with Live 2.0. You know, the more you

read like, Sejit's reporting and some of that stuff, I'm like, wait, is this just like a, are they buying this to as like a tax write off? And they just need warm bodies to, like, because this is enough of a you know, basically like balance sheet liability that it's worth putting the money. Is this just like a zombie golf league that they're standing up? It's just is, I'm like, well, that can't be the case. Like, surely things aren't so dystopian that that could be the case. And I'm having a hard time reading anything that would make me think that's not the case. It's just, it's tough, bleak, interesting, funny times to be DJ Pyehouski right now,

I think is how I would sum it up. Well, we don't have to put on the corrupt golf media hat to do the operating loss thing. Like Scott O'Neill, the CEO said this out loud. Like in his pitches, like part of the appeal of LiveGolf was these massive operating losses that can be carried forward to offset profits in other entities for an investor that wants to come in. That's exactly what BC Partners is doing. I think it is pretty darn contingent. I'd say entirely contingent on including Bryson. if I'm BC partners, I'm not doing this if there is no Bryson.

If I'm BC partners, I'm not doing this to begin with. But I would have to imagine they at least thought they had a shot at ROM when they started this process. And I would think whatever the reporting from the athletic about Dustin Johnson and his cabal, potentially maybe still lingering out there to possibly re-up in a certain way. I just don't know if you're convincing the players that the equity is going to be worth anything. And again, from what I gather, equity could be equity in kind of a new holding company that includes profit from other companies and everything. Also, it seems like that's kind of part of the mechanism of how quickly, quickly so far out of my depth here. But it seems like that's part of the mechanism by which to claim some of these losses is like a lot of the ownership has to go to. Yes.

You know what I mean? Like the certain. Yeah, exactly. So it's like it just kind of the more you read about it, the more confusing and sort of bleak it gets. Because at the end of the day, again, we're like if it, I hate to oversimplify here. If it didn't work with $6 billion and all the good players, I have a hard time thinking it's going to work without the $6 billion and without all the good players. But I've been wrong before. So we'll see.

I think, I mean, we might have to add tax loss harvesting to the list of things that are sick. There should be a team of harvesters. The tax loss harvester should absolutely be a live team. International harvester. They play in the Big 12. It's just now kind of downing on me, though, just how ridiculous it is. If Live 1.0 was more financially successful or less financially disastrous, that Lyft 2.0 wouldn't even be possible.

Like the only reason it's possible is because the operating less are so big that it could actually make sense for somebody like PC parties. that has run this playbook before. Again, we're out of our depth talking about it. If you want to listen to a whole podcast about it, we did want a couple weeks ago with Sajid end up from the Financial Times that explained all of this a lot better than we possibly could. So check that out.

It's a complicated topic that you can't kind of do in less than an hour. And he does a lot better job explaining it than we have. He does great reporting with the Financial Times and is on top of the story. How about Scott O'Neill? It just continues to get absolutely paid. I was going to say, let Sajid do all of the bankruptcy stuff. let's have some fun with some documents that were dropped this past week. I spent most of my Friday evening pouring over these.

I'm not usually that person. I usually wait for others to read it and kind of, all right, tell me what I need to know. My jaw dropped when I got to a certain section of the UK part. And it was the moment I realized that Liv was squatting on an outrageous amount of extremely valuable internet real estate. And rather than give you all the names, which are several, several pages of just dot orgs.coms that LiveGolf owns, our own DJ Pihalski has looked. I think there's 874 domains that they've registered. We want your top 10, the top 10 best live golf domains that they own. Did you look through all 874?

I did. Yeah, of course. This is an exhaustive, exhaustive process and a thorough investigation here. And yeah, let's just let's just get into it. I mean, they're all on the list for a reason, but they're all on the list for, you know, different reasons. We're trying to create a whole view of this thing. Number 10. Do you think they used Bob Parsons go daddy?

I don't know. Your question, security. I think it was. I think it was because I tried to go to some of them and it brought me to something go daddy related. Okay. T.C., there's a tie at number 10. Of course.

This is between money grabs, Grabgolf.com and bloodmoneygolf.com. I think both of those, again, of course, a lot of these are kind of getting out in front of it. Domains. Don't let T.C. sign up for one of these domains and put up some propaganda. We're going to own the domain. And so it's just kind of a funny, like, what's on the mind, what are they thinking about? Money Grabgrabgolf.com.

I think it's like a, here's what I'll say up front. A lot of the ones that made my list are ones that sound like kind of sick. It's a little bit of like a band name of like, oh, that'd be a sweet band name sort of thing. Money grab golf is just like rolls off the tongue. Blood money golf is, you know, the subtext. Sounds like a rap. That's what I'm saying. The subtext is very, very tough.

Obviously, I think we all know what is being referred to. But from the like, you know, the hip hop sort of punk rock, like blood money golf sounds pretty cool. So I put that one on the list. That's a tie for number 10. Number nine, we're going in reverse order here. golf corruption.com. This just sounds like an investigative. Investigative watchdog.

This is Gibb Strickler's block. Exactly. That's the other thing, that's another reason why some of these made the list is I think they're blocking important work from being done outside of, you know, it's not all about you, live golf.

I think money grabgobgolf.com, that could have applied to any number of things. And now we don't have access to it. So whatever, which I think brings us to number eight. I mean this totally sincerely. This would be an awesome, this could be a cool golf brand. You could turn this into a legitimate brand.

I know this is. Which is shady golf.com. I think you absolutely could draw up a good logo. You could create like a, you know, kind of an alternative sort of golf lifestyle brand. Shadygolf.com I think is just, I think it's great. You know, it's kind of a, you could just feel that at an ad read, use promo code shady for 15% off your first order. Number seven. This one, it's not the most clever.

It does have to be on the list. I would struggle to put it higher than number seven, but I'm a completest. It has to be on there. That's just fucklivegolf.com. I think that's probably one of the first ones they bought. And I just, you know, it's on there. Of course, you got to respect it.

It's clean. Are there any other iterations of the F, live golf on the list? No, there's not. You feel free to run through any of them if you Like I thought that was kind of making a statement Putting that one on there I was pretty exhaustive on some of the other ones It was like you know

A dash here Yeah I got them and if you got kids in the in the car I do apologize for this next section here But it's work that we're doing here though I think the kids would understand There's fuck live golf invitational.com Fuck live golf invitational.org Fuck live golf league invitational.org

Fuck live golf league.com Fuck live golf league dot com. Fuck live golf league dot org Fuck live golf. dot com, fuck livegolf.org.org.org.com, fuck livegolfleague.org. Fuck, fuck, fuck dash livegolf.com. Fuck, dash livegolf.org. Fuck dash livegolfleague. God, it's not the same thing. Do we think the PGA tour has done this as well? I have to feel like this is a pretty common practice, I'm guessing, just because I think they would,

they'd kind of come up with these terms and then they would just add terms on the end of them to just They're almost like search terms more than, you know, URLs, which I think brings us to number six. And, Sally, you mentioned a couple of these. I think they get exponentially funnier when they're dot orgs. Always makes me laugh, which number six is clocked in our first.org. And that's live golf invitational sportswashing.org. Which again, just sounds like a letters. A very informational website on how to sports wash and how live golf.

golf, how we're pushing sports washing forward through the live golf invitational. You can learn more at live golf invitational sportswashing.org as an invitational as a crew. Number five, again, just sounds kind of informative, livegolfracism.com. Just what are, you know, if you'd like to check in on what's going on on that front. It takes all of us. You can do that there. Let's end it, TC. number four.

This just sounds like this is what it feels like to be on Twitter. I think these are the people who are hanging out. And that's livegolfmen.com. If you're looking to find other live golf men in your area, people, big, strong men who support this league, who support this mission,

who know like this is, this is where the world of not only golf, but entertainment writ large is going. Go to live. livegolf men.com look for an event in your area uh meetups you know book clubs uh all kinds of things live gulf spaces twitter spaces live golf men dot com i thought was you know they're there they're on that one it's like divorce only men only live only yes which brings us to the top three a very competitive competitive list and you could i you know you could have you could have

you could quibble with any of these, but number three is going to be oil barrengolf.com, uh, which alternate, you know, I think that name would have played, uh, for, for the league as a whole, um, you know, I didn't really, I, nobody uses the word baron anymore. I, here in Milwaukee, they talk about the beer barons, but I'm just, I mean, that's Aaron Trump. I think all the barons went extinct in like 1935. Like, I don't think there's any barons left. So oil baron golf. It makes me laugh, but I don't think it's super effective. Number two, Sali, I mean, as soon as I say it, you're going to know what's number one. But it's terroristgolfleague.org is number two.

TGL. The TGL. I think they obviously had terroristgolfleague.com as well. They're not both going to make the list. Terroristgolfleague.org is way funnier. And therefore, it gets the number two spot. Yeah, what more can I say? And number one, totally random,

because all these other ones kind of track, like I'm saying, they're just kind of like you're adding a word here, you're bolting a word on here, you're adding dashes, you're adding dot com.org. But this one was just in there by itself. It was a total hanger,

not tied to anything else. And the number one spot goes to live golf my ass.com, which is the one that I'm like, of all of these, I'm like, I don't think anybody's going to actually set up like a protest website on any of these other ones. But I'm like, live golf my ass.com. I'm like, I can see actually somebody be like, you know what, enough of this. Enough of this.

I'm going to start, I'm going to start putting up some blog posts, putting up some shots. I don't like what they're doing over there. And I'm just, you could, if you want to read more, go to live golf my ass.com. LGMA, that's right. LGMA. She gets some hats that say that. But listen, I'm, I'm here to take any kind of, any kind of quibbling, any kind of disagree. But that's that's my list. That's my committee's list of the top 10 domains that live

squatted on over the last six years. Were these all built or all bought from the outset or did they buy these? I don't know. We don't know. We don't have purchase dates. We don't and we do not have values of what they're worth. All of the values are to consider to be undetermined. And I would say if you're looking at it says there were. Yeah. And I from a, you know, we've learned a lot from Phil on the what's a good negotiation. and what's not. I know I just kind of put myself out there as far as the ones I'd like to have, but if they are looking to offload any of these, hit me up.

I think there's, I think I would look pretty seriously at buying some of these domains if they're looking to liquidate. Live golf, my ass.com. Guys, it's fall and you can find my ass in some holderness and born, okay? The H&B fall collection is here. They got great new arrivals, new colors, inspired by the landscape color and coastline

of Northern California. Your favorites are there, plus a whole lot more. I think I talk about hoodies every time with H&B, but they have so many freaking good hoodies. I've got the stow on, I believe. T.C. has called the Ellison, the hoodie of the year, I think. I got the Lawson on right now, Sally, the little merino wool. I mean, it's just, it's unreal.

Sporty, sharp piece. It is. It's the piece of the fall for me. Solly, I didn't realize it. I've got a whole, I got a whole set on right now. You got your ass is in some H&B as well. Oh, God. The joggers are incredible.

We have some of those in our shop as well. The Jackson's a great hoodie as well. I love the corduroy pants as well. They just, they keep coming out with banger after banger. Everything they send over is great. We've had their polos in our shop for a decade now, but Holderness and board continues to just absolutely stunt.

We've worked with them for over a decade. We're going to continue to work with them, hopefully. NLU10, get you 10% off at HBGolf.com. That's customer loyalty right there because it's still the only, discount code you can find anywhere on the market. NLU10 at HBGolf.com. Don't sleep on the McDaniel Pants. Those are a new joint and they are best pant I own right now. So some other takeaways just from these documents. And again, I'm not an expert on reading bankruptcy documents. I can read financial statements, but bankruptcy was a lot of confusing stuff in

there. But there is a lot of documentation in here about basically, as I understand, when you file for bankruptcy, you got to, you have to report what you have paid in the 12 months prior to this. And so you can kind of see what the activity is leading up to this ultimate bankruptcy. There's all this stuff about hierarchy and who has claims to whatever and blah, blah, blah. But things we learned in this, Greg Norman and Scott O'Neill did not stop getting paid during this time. And first off, Greg Norman got a $9.4 million settlement and bonus through September of 2025 last year, which was almost a year, I think, after he had kind of, moved on from his role there.

So he got paid within these 12 months as well. Scott O'Neill in June got a 6.375 retention payment on June 24th, 2026, well after, of course, that the league was already on their way to crashing down. This league, man. Interesting. No. This cracked me up. The CFO got 3.37 million.

What was this guy doing? Like, what was this guy doing? what was the getting a real workout on one of the columns on his ballot sheets the other one that's called that's some wrong price money man yeah prices price's income statement looks a lot different than this guy's does he's writing a lot of checks i gotta be yeah you know price was learning his money well while steamboat j was out ripping lips he was he was sitting in front at Congress there. I'm trying to sit with that $9.4 million to Greg Norman. And I'm sure it was more than that all in when you kind of like, you look at everything, obviously. But it's a

reputational hit for Sharkey is is, is tough. He's in a tough place in the world of golf going, going forward. And it's just, I don't know. I know he's not, it's not earning on like the same levels as some of the other legends of the game, but I do, I don't know, I just wonder what the alternate universe of his financial career kind of looks like without live golf. Does he, basically a long way of saying

like how much was it was worth it to not be invited to the masters to, you know, to like, to do all those, all those different things is, it's an interest, I don't have an answer, but it's an interesting question. I think he'd be in a shit ton of money. Like, probably. Do you think that settlement is,

getting bought out of certain equity on his way out the door in 2020, you know, before 2025? Or is it something that's, that's, you know, just a golden parachute that he negotiated in? Probably, probably that. But, you know, the money was absolutely flowing at this point and had not been abruptly cut off and probably didn't look like much. I mean, yeah, he did, he was one of the, him and Phil were the ones that had just a small percent of equity in live golf. which I look guys for sure I'll give I'll give some equity in this if you really wanted you know if that's a bargaining moment for you

but I mean I think Norman made I don't know what he made but I would guess it comes close to nine figures I mean I think he more than 50 million maybe approaching a hundred million from this would be my estimate I'm sure I had a massive sign on bonus with it so good on Sharkey then I think Sharkey needed it I mean yeah he's got Greg Norman Enterprise I think this is probably the best financial move he could ever make, could have ever made in his 60s and 70s.

Is he almost 70 now, I think? Like might even be 70. Like, yeah, I fired his captain. Now maybe he can hire a new captain for his yacht. He's 71, so. Yeah, wow. Jeez. So Phil Mickelson kept getting paid this past year.

Kept getting paid is the PPA, the player participation agreement. He, Phil only played one event. on Live Golf this past year, but was getting paid somewhat of a salary amount, about $1.2 million quarterly, up to almost $5 million annualized that we could find in the statements. ROM has made about almost $60 million in the last 12 months. 36 million was in contract payments, $23 million in prize money, and is walking away from a $7.47 million claim on that.

So his payments were just under $5 million quarterly. annualized at about $20 million, but then it includes some payments as well from 2025 in that last 12 months. So that's, yeah, that's just for putting on that Legion 13 uniform. And it was a little confusing

because there's UK statements, US statements, and I'm not like, I'm not a million percent confident in how all the accounting, you know, flows. But now I wouldn't say there's a lot in there.

It was like completely shocking. You know, Rick Shields has owed $1.4 million. Good. And we're going to build up to the point where like a lot of people got paid, but there's still a lot of people that did not get paid. And that's a discussion to be to be had here. But Cam Smith got just over $3 million a quarter, about $12.5 million annually. DJ got almost $2.5 million a quarter up to about just under $10 million annualized. Bryson 1.264 million quarterly, 8.7 annualized. But that, again, this is where I'm not positive how everything flows through the crushers. Some of this is UK.

Some of this is U.S. But yeah, between Ron Bryson, DJ, Kam, Smith, Bubba, and Phil, they were paid about $140 million in 12 months. Meanwhile, vendors, the listed claim of vendors is about $67 million of people that are owed money across the board. On top of that. Yeah. Many of whom are like totally unrelated to golf at large and are just, like doing their jobs, like catering companies or, you know, people you rent like portable shitters from, stuff like that. Just production companies who made the sizzle videos, just all kinds of,

all kinds of things. All kinds of social media groups, all kinds of agencies. Um, you know, board members were getting paid a lot, including the restructuring directors that were added, making almost a million bucks each. Piff's lawyers made $7.2 million dollars in the final 90 days The CAA got paid $3.15 million as well. Live paid a $1.5 million settlement for the canceled Michigan finale to the Poltze family there. And in the documents, you can see, the public investment fund holds a $494.8 million secured claim over substantially all of Liv's assets. So it gets paid out ahead of the vendors, ahead of Fox, IMG, MDL, Beast, Rick Shields, Louisiana

economic development, Valdorama's Foundation. the PIF holds claims ahead of all of those creditors as of this date. Other items of note in there, Cameron Young, it appears, had a contract. I know we talked about this actually in the upcoming recording that you guys are getting ready to hear that Cam Young had. I feel like we knew this, but I feel like this was also news at the same time this past week that Cam Young either has said in the past that he had a signed agreement or a non-disclosure agreement of some kind. there was a contract with Liv that Cameron Young had that Liv decided needed to be canceled in the course of these proceedings as well. But that was signed July 24th, 2022.

It was somewhat newsworthy, I think, this past week. So alternate world where Cam Young goes to live and professional golf might would have definitely looked a little bit different because I don't think he would have been kind of the only one to fall in that time period if he was won. That's just, we just chalked that up to some injuries. stuff with him, right? It's like some worries on whether he was going to be healthy and and like he was struggling with some stuff at that point, right? No, he's got immediately post post-open championship. And post he finished T2 with the rocket.

Yeah. So this July 24th would have been like the week after I think the open is runner up at the open, which again, I think you got a point to like the Delaware meeting man a month later. you know, I don't know if he had canceled it prior to that. If somebody, somebody got in his ear and flipped him, man. And there were a lot of people in this time period that were unable to be flipped by people, you know, the Brooks's, the ROMs, like people that tried to convince these guys to stay, didn't listen. And Kim was one that did.

So do we think as part of it, like he was like, all right, I'll still come play the song because he played the Saudi International the following year as well. He was the only. That very well could be, you know, he was going to get a release. to go do that if he if he stayed with the pga tour i'm not i'm not sure who will get asked about that and we'll kind of get a little bit more clarification on that this one was delicious stenson signed his contract it's it would appear on may 10th 2022 meaning he was for almost two months was secretly a over two months secretly was a live member while also serving as the rider cup captain

It's like the espionage. This was shortly after he had signed a contract with the DP World Tour just in March, you know, saying that he was going to only, would not play the Live Tour, would only play PGA Tour and DP World Tour and serve as the Rider Cup captain. Thanks a lot, Alan Stanford. Yeah, he had to go. He was broke. I mean, it can't just, I don't think it can be said enough times, though.

What a what a tipped pass that turned out to be for. Totally. For Rider Cup Europe. I mean, that's probably couldn't have convinced him necessarily at the time. But God, look back at that four years later as Luke Donald. Like, you know, yeah, they're getting ready to just carve statues of Luke Donald. It's an unbelievable sliding door sort of thing. Sometimes I look back. I'm like, did I stunt too hard after 2021? Was I an idiot here? It's like, well, they said they won by a record amount and Europe couldn't keep a captain. It's like, I kind of feel like if I'm not going to stunt, then I don't know when I'm going to. Of course, what would, any time I get too high on anything, it comes back in very embarrassing fashion. It's the real benefit, Salley, wasn't in Stenson.

It's the fact that Westwood will never be a captain because we've seen how fucking stupid and unintelligent that guy is. Leads me to my next one. Westwood said anyone with an exemption should be free to come. You talk about DP World Tour. Should be free to come back because as we know, the DP World Tour endorses. members going to another rival tour and already have 10 cards for it. But if people don't have an exemption, they should have to go through school like everyone else. And anyone that thinks the PGA tour aren't rivals and our partners are either blind or fools. Yes, they provide

funding now, but to what end and to what cost to the DP World Tour, the end of 2027 will be interesting as to what assets they ask for. I think Westwood's, he's part of that generation of people that did see what the DP World Tour used to be like. you know, I think there is some remnants of just like, man, these used to be two equal tours and that was probably better for the golf ecosystem and all of that stuff. But it just is, which I think there's a lot of, I'm not trying to both sides, but I think there's a lot of validity to that perception. But man, it's just really hard to still have that take in 2026 and ignore everything that's happened over the last decade. And it's really hard to ignore the part that you

played in that. Dude. Like you're the one that went to a rival tour, man. That's, I wonder why things have been so tough for the DP World Tour. You know, it's, it's just,

yeah, it's having all the cake here. And it just is, I bend over backwards for that first half because I'm like, I do, man, I am a little romantic about that, that old school DP World Tour era.

But dude, you just, you can't, you can't be the mess. for that one, man. Like, you need to shut up on this, on this topic. Remember in prior years, he has said that the PGA tour were bullies because they offered up so much money on that tour

and all the European tour members had to go over and play for that. I had to go live there and had to do it. So, like, they, it was, you know, now that PJ tour's giving out too much money was an excuse that he has used in the past as well. But, yeah, it's just tough. I mean, it's sweet. Sorry, last time, say like you'll hear this in the live golf oral history but it's just hard when the rubber

meets the road for any of these guys to sit in front of a microphone to not end up sounding like this you know because they just they just end up they just end up kind of having to deal with the consequence of like of their actions you know and why they went which again is what we keep saying is like if you just had been kind of honest about it's for the money and I'm I'm going to be pretty soulless about this then like the wheel group yeah that but as soon as you try to do any kind of justification, any kind of, you know, yeah, any kind of backing out of it or slipping away from the responsibility, you just end up sounding like an idiot. And it's, that is undefeated over the last four years. What is so hard if in Westwood's spot to just be like, in my 40s and 50s, I was offered

an incredible opportunity to make more money than I could have dreamed in that that time period. I regret some of the divide that it caused in the golf world. I don't feel great about that part. I did feel like it was the best possible decision I could make for my family. That's no longer an option. I do wish I could come back and play the DP World Tour. I've said some things in the past that I kind of regret that I regret saying, but I look forward to this next chapter doing everything I can to support the DP World Tour and it sponsors and I'm willing to commit to blah, blah, blah,

and look forward to get back out there with my peers and talking with some of them about this. I wonder. Well, what's the downside of saying that? I wonder if it's riding the line on any kind of non-dispair. or, you know, anything like that with signing up in the first place? Like, I don't know. Yeah. But of course, do they have come at you now?

Like, I just, it's not, I don't think it's that hard to do. I, otherwise, you're just going to keep getting asked about it. And I just, maybe I'm, maybe I weigh too much of like what people say on social media, which is not real well. But Lee lives on social media. Like, he sees all of that. He should understand that that world works a little bit and just, it just can't be that hard to transition out of this.

I wouldn't think Bryson's in like a different spot. Like he kind of fucked people in a totally different way. Westwood, it made a whole heck of a lot more sense to do that at that age. And I just don't get what the point is of trying to win this battle in public anymore. But we just can't log off, man. Yeah. Refuses to log off.

Eddie Pepperol wrote some about this. You mentioned this up top. I'm not going to read everything that he shared on Substack as well, but just talked about talking with Guy Kinning some about about guys that are coming back and things like that. An example he gave was Charles Howell III. He said, not somebody I had on my list of Knights and Shining Armor for the DP World Tour.

This is the calculation that Guy and his team will have to make as we move forward. Who do we invite back and what might their impact be? I've spoken to Guy on this very issue back in the summer. I won't betray any confidence on his side, but my view was pretty simple. Give a few players invites who undeniably add stardust. The Joaquin Neiman, Cam Smith, Bryson, of course, John Rom,

Tiro Hatton have their exemptions. Truthfully, from my perspective, not much else needed to be done, just ensured that everybody else goes back to the qualifying school. The idea that Charles Hout the 3rd is on this list, with all due respect to Charles, he's a terrific guy, is utterly bizarre. That represents a miscalculation to me, along frankly, with additional names like Thomas Peters, Brandon Grace, and even Louis Ustazen, as much as I admire his swing.

None of these players are going to put enough butts in the seats or in front of TVs to materially improve the balance sheet in 2027, period. I hate to sound certain about it, but I just can't see how it can be. I loved it this week. Everybody that chimed on the Charles House stuff was like, absolutely not. He should not like, whether it was Lauren Thonnikin

or anybody, absolutely should not get his card or any guaranteed starts or anything. But what a nice guy. Like everybody qualified about that. He is the best. He is a great guy, yeah. That's what makes it the perfect case. Like this is not personal about you, Charles.

like nobody I you're not going to find a much more popular player in professional golf than Charles but at the same time like I totally agree with the sentiment like what on what grounds should he get a spot over players that have like that they're there they're I hate that like some of the star guys can skate by on this stuff of like you screw the DP World Tour over a lot rom especially you refuse it'll pay the fines refusal just play the starts that they were offering and all this but you do put butts in the seats and like the tour's going to be better off if you come back. That sucks. That's hard to swallow, but makes sense. The howl thing doesn't to me. A lot of this, a lot of these guys are going to be kind of in that

same bucket. The names he mentions, I think, make a lot of sense. And I don't know what I would do of how SkyKinnings, to be honest. Man, I have no idea. I'm so with you. And I feel like for, again, this feels like the culmination of a lot of things, but you feel it with the, the whole mules conversation on the PGA tour side of things. You know, I feel like you can, you can either choose to zoom way out on these topics or zoom way in on these topics and when you zoom way out it's exactly what Eddie wrote in his substack thing which is yeah man just bring back walking you know walking neman and john rom and bryson

and let's let's run it like a business and then you zoom in and you're like well who's number 101 on the dp world tour oh fuck it's eddie like uh damn and he stayed and he didn't go to live and he was pretty eloquent about things all all throughout and like didn't have some huge payday that he could have taken. And it's just is brutal, man. Again, it's the same thing on the PJ tour where it's like, you don't really know which hat to put on. I feel like nine times out of 10,

we kind of have the fan hat on, which is the, yeah, just bring back Bryson. What are we talking about? But then you zoom in and we've had a lot of fun with the Ryan Armour Mules quote, but it's like if you're an administrator of this league or an executive, it is pretty,

hard to look at somebody to be like, hey, man, you've, you've worked your entire life to become one of the best human beings in the history of the world at this craft. But we're just going to kind of break the rules and we're going to shift you down the priority list and have fun at Q school because we're bringing back some other guy that's just marginally like a little more popular than you is like, dude, that's also was pretty responsible for like being a very big detriment to our tour, a tour that went after our players, our sponsors, our venues. our vendors, everything, like everything. Very tough. It's tough. And so you say all that out loud and you're like, man, you hope that an executive would be a human being and side with, you know,

the human beings on this one. But it's, but the other side of that though, Deves that we haven't talked about is it is also an opportunity. Like they've said out loud, you cannot do both next year. You cannot do both. It is an opportunity to get somebody back in the boat and to not have them go to and like and live potentially. Yeah. But a guy like Charles is like he was never in the book. No, I know. Right.

I know exactly. He's, like he's, he's a citizen of a different country. He's a part of a different Navy. I'd say for the people that are still deciding out there, though, like that question being out there for guy, for that specific player.

I don't know. No name is coming to mind off top of my head. But that's, that's an interesting part of it. But I do tend to say like, man, I just, these guys are going to get their cake and eat it to. Just kind of got to live with.

it at this point. And yeah, and DP World Tour is a different situation in the PGA Tour. It really is. It's been handled differently. It's been treated differently. And the effect has been very different on things. But it's going to be fascinating to see how the PGA tour does it with with the senior tour moving forward.

You know, even a guy like Westwood, right? That like he's, let's say Westwood wants to go play the senior tour. Well, there's no Q school anymore for the champs tour. So you either have to go Monday and I'm sure they're going to tell. anybody and everybody not to give him a sponsor exemption. It's a rival tour. It's the same with Blandi, right? Like Blandi's won two senior majors

the last couple of years in the fact that he's signed on to stick with Liv. Like, I don't know what Blandi's doing, man. He needs to, he needs to get back into the real ecosystem. I disagree to you see. I think he's building something. He knows what he's building with the cleaks.

What are the cliques are going to outlive all of us? Or what was the quote? I think he just, I respect him for stick of that, that work out. Blandy should buy LiveGolf my ass. He's one of the live golf men, you know. The Westwood thing is funny from a PJ Tour champion's perspective because he only has two actual PJ Tour wings. Right?

So don't you need to? Same as Charles Al. What did they move the minimum to, four? Yeah, but if you're a major champion, oh, wait, no, that never happened either. Shit. Yeah, so it is sponsor exemptions and then trying to get, which if he has aspirations to even do that. God, we didn't spend enough time how stupid that fucking quote was.

Like, I know, I know the PJ Tour funded the tour. Basically is keeping the DP World Tour alive with their funding, but you don't consider them a rival. Yeah. Oh, my God. I mean, Westwood, maybe you can go play the Stasia European Senior Tour. How about that? Or your golf tour, if he's on.

just online. Beats up the influencers. Last thing I had, we kind of mentioned this, but Gabby Herzeg got the athletic report. They're not getting all their cake, Sally. They're not going to get all their cake. Dustin Johnson and 10 other live players, 10 plus other live players,

are rallying together in the hopes of negotiating with the public investment fund for their claims. They total over $100 million. They seek severance payments and are not expected to sign with LiveGolf 2.0 in its current form. The group's public emergence comes just before the Sunday deadline for player commitments to

Liv's 2.0 iteration, although Liv's new investor, BC Partners Credit retains the power to push back that deadline. According to a source familiar with the player group's thinking who spoke on the condition of anonymity, none of the players in Johnson's cohort are expected to sign the restructuring agreement between Live and BC partners

in its current form. I'm sure they're lining up to pay those outstanding money. I tweeted this as well, but it came up in our oral history of literally after the very first event, first day of the first event,

DJ Pi said, what happens when this thing goes belly up? What kind of recourse are you going to have against, against Saudi Arabia, good luck with that. It just was, it was incredibly, incredibly prescient. Enjoy the jail cell, pal.

I wish them luck in their endeavors. So anything else on Liv, that was, that was, that took a long time. I think, yeah, I could see you guys were starting to start to doze a little bit of,

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like I got two lagoon pillows plus my travel pillow. We've had to restock for two more because, my wife and I started fighting over them. I'm like, I'll get you your own. There's fantastic. Use the promo code, T.C. Exactly. There's some architecture stuff around the world

that we are due to catch up on TC. Dealers' choice here. We're going to talk about cool links as well. The cat is designing a course in Northern Ireland, Royal County Down. Some things happening over there. Derek Duncan had an article with Golf Digest this past week. Where do you want to start?

Let's start with cool links. Let's get the bad news out of the way here. Although I guess the McKenzie and Ebert stuff isn't great news either. But yeah, cool links. Cool links for those that are uninitiated. It's a potential golf course. It's been a fight up in the Highlands of Scotland near Royal Dornick for several years. Over a decade now, I believe.

Core Crenshaw design course in this dunescape that is just outrageous. It looks like it's meant to be a golf course. Mike Kaiser involved in it had been a headache from a, It's a scientifically site of scientific interest. Obviously, there's been some issues with golf courses in Scotland, namely one in Aberdeen that caused a bunch of issues in the construction of that one. So been a big, big, big, big bureaucratic red tape fight. It's looking good.

It's looking bad, bad, bad, maybe a sign of good, maybe not so good. It looks like it is finally officially over. Yeah. I know they've tried to appeal it and all sorts of stuff. But yeah, actually, I'm going up to Pioneers number 11 tomorrow. to get eyes on that and I'll see Bill Corr. So there you go. Get some intel.

Check in with him. It's, we obviously this comes at the time that all of our our Scottish Highlands Tourist sauce episodes are airing. So we've got the Highlands kind of on the brain. And it's, yeah, I mean,

what everybody's been saying for a decade, but getting the, the big draw is there with Royal Dornick, the thing that we'll get trips there and, you know, kind of makes the all boats rise. effect to take place, but man, one more would just open that place up to to even more, even more of that effect. And so it is a big time bummer not to see, not to see this one go through.

Yeah. Critical mass is big up there. You want, yeah, like you, you want economic, you know, you want economic opportunity for people and like, like, I feel like people, like young people are leaving the highlands and they're losing population. So you need, need good stuff to keep. keep people in that magical part of the world. Yeah, and it sounds like the overwhelming majority of people in the area want the project to go forward, which is, you know, there's golf status article about it that you can find. It's called Scottish Government rejects controversial links course, likely ending a decade-long golf fight.

Details a lot of stuff in there where people are quite frustrated with the so-called democratic process out there's from Joel Beale and Jamie Kennedy, October 23rd date of that one. So more details in there if you want to. part of me still thinks this might still loom in the background and still have a chance, but gosh, seeing a quote in there,

sadly, this is from Gordon Sutherland, one of the five directors of communities for Cool, said sadly, I think this is pretty much the end of the line. There's still a lot of anger floating around. So, bad news there.

You want to do the bad, you want to double dip of the bad news? Yeah, let's just keep it going, man. Let's not jolt people back and forth. This is, I believe Jeff Shacklefer reported this. What was the first,

I don't know what the first, first source of this one was, but McKenzie and Ebert have a plan for Royal County Down, which when that, you hear those sentence, it sounds like is Royal County Down being considered for a spot in the Open Championship Rota? It is supposed to the Irish Open before. But yes, McKenzie and Ebert potentially likely getting their hands on Royal County Down, what's your reaction to that? DJ, you tell me, I've never been to Royal County Down before. You know what? I was there last year, Sally and I and Randy had a,

just magical day and i didn't walk off thinking like man they need to change that place uh that was not that was not my blind shots that was just not my uh takeaway tc i i would have to imagine from reading between the lines and reading some of the reporting that any changes that would be made would like you said be to to bring the open championship or to make them uh more of a a contender for an open championship and i guess i would just counter with maybe not every course has to host an open championship. Maybe not every course has to host a U.S. Open. Maybe not every course has to host a PGA. Maybe some things are just the coolest place in the world as they are. And boys, just please be careful with doing anything stupid there, I guess, is what I would probably say. All of that

said, I know I know what it would mean to bring it open. I know all the drivers of how fantastic that would be for that area of Northern Ireland. But oh my God, man, it's just such a cool place. And it's just, I don't know. I think it's a, it's just, honestly, it's kind of a good push and pull with, um, with this other note that's on our, our agenda here. But Derek Duncan wrote a piece for golf digest that I think all of us just really, really enjoyed. It was a short kind of punchy column and he's writing about, uh, basically what he was calling the death of the championship golf course and this whole idea, just kind of getting his arms around the, the big swings of, of trends, uh, in golf course architecture and how you get into the 60s.

in the 70s and the whole every trend in golf course design was just how hard can we make it how good of a how how brutal of a test can we make this championship golf course and it just led to so many courses that nobody likes to play it led to uh you know just a lot of bad stuff whose idea was yeah and i you know you kind of get if i'm squinting i get how it happens right i mean golf's just kind of like coming on TV. It's being, you know, we've got Arnold Palmer. We've got all this stuff driving all this new interest in the game and a lot of people learning kind of from the pros and, you know, you get it with the augustification of everything needs to be green. And you see that kind of a similar

effect in other things. But yeah, his question and he didn't, he was not surmising an answer or anything, but it was basically have we swung too far back the other way. And, you know, we've got places like mammoth dunes or places like um you know certain things that stream song the greens are too big that for the corridors are too wide and and you know are we are we making things too wide and too uh you know focused on this other style of extreme playability uh and where is the line and it was just a good it was a good thought starter that we can come back to in a second but it does lead me to weirdly tie these two stories together on just like i saw i don't know how you feel but i'm like i like Walking off row county down, I wasn't just like, I had a really good time.

But if they played the open here, it'd be so much better. I'm just like, no, I just had a really good time. And I think everybody on earth should try to go play that golf course. I can skip a ton of steps in the conversation and just say one thing and we can work our way back to it. But that one thing is we have a massive distance issue in golf. Right. Okay. That's, we just fix that.

Right. That's going to cause a lot of this. Don't get me wrong. If we could bring the open there. Yes. I would sign me up for that. So let's go back on that. But that's where we're going to end up there, right?

We have a massive distance issue in golf. It's not just about shot value when I say that. Like it's about traffic flow. It's about building tunnels to get fans through. This was a light bulb moment for me at Medina, like watching where they had to put some of these teas and how far set back the fans were from the action at the President's Cup of like some old, like basically to the point now with the way the game is played,

there's very few sites for open championship level competition and event hosting that have beyond the golf course what they need to support it, right? And that includes getting fans behind. If you stretch T's to the very back of an edge of every part of the property, you can't get fans in behind there. There's no flow of traffic. And so what you have to do likely is make great golf course sacrifices. And again, we're ahead of ourselves. We don't know what the true plans are for this, but I would imagine. Jack had some of them.

He put him in his newsletter. And yeah, I mean, it's reshaping of various stuff that one of them looked like the, the par three that they put in at Burkdale, which like, go, go prove you can fix that first before you start bidding on other stuff. You went, you went, go, I thought you were saying. I know, I was like, damn, dude. Oh, my God. I mean, it wasn't great, but it wasn't, you know, it wasn't that bad.

No, and then, and then, and then I'll just tell. like the people at Meerfield. My hitters in the honorable company. Keep at it, man. Stay strong. All right? Come on. I love that they're saying no to these changes

that they want them to make. And hold the line, guys. But yeah, all that to say, yes, if you sacrifice what makes that golf course special, you know, for the sake of hosting an open there. And look, you can't, They're not going to come in and just strip the golf course of all of its charm. You know, that'd be pretty impossible.

Like, it is an incredible, incredible sight. Oh, I was just going to say, yeah, I mean, I'm with you on what you're going to say. They're not going to obviously, like, get rid of all the, all the good stuff and bring in only bad stuff. Of course. But there is a, and some of this can get pedantic or eye rolly or whatever. But if we go back to Burkdale, I am thinking about the great man, Jordan Spieth, who've played one of the coolest stretches of golf in the history of the Open Championship to go on to win in 2017. And like some of those holes don't exist anymore. And there is a, there's just a big push and pull between messing with history,

I guess, is, is what I'm saying. And I know from an open championship standpoint, we're not getting rid of certain holes. We're not getting rid of certain whatever. But you are touching up, theoretically, hypothetically, you are touching up one of the greatest golf courses in the world. And it's, again, I know money talks and it's, we're trying to do. you know, we're trying to bring an open championship there is kind of the impetus of this. But think about all the buddy's trips, man. Think about all the fathers and son trips. Think about all of the things that have happened at that place over the last 100 plus years that,

I don't know. It's just to what end is a big question that you have to ask in moments like this, I think. And Jack does say in his newsletter, he says, the possibility of the work luring the RNA to a warden open seems highly unlikely based on lack of lengthening plan to manage today's, you know, his shot at the distance, how the guys hit it today, nor does it address weighs more than 15,000 people a day could get to the isolated Northern Ireland venue. So basically the fact that the RNA is focused on big open attendance with the exception

of royal rhythm, kind of rules out RCD as well, he thinks. So, yeah. Yeah, we'll see. I mean, I don't know, I just hope that if you had somebody putting together plans for this, solicit more bids. let's see what other people want to do or figure out how to restore it back to the best it could be maybe

instead of needlessly changing stuff. So I need to look at the plans more though. Circling back to Derek's article, going to call the Death of the Championship course. It is funny. Like you read about it and you are kind of, I still feel like I need to read like a book explaining the thought process behind

the post World War II era of making stuff hard. But a lot of it was real estate plays and just it was about a lot more than golf. I will give you, I will give you the Robert Trent Jones. I don't want to eat that. It's like 450. It's like 500 pages long. And the author,

I think he's a professor at Auburn. He ran it, he kind of ran out of gas about 300, 350 pages in, which was actually like, I think Robert Trent Jones's late career. There were some absolute debacles and just weird real estate plays. in the south of France and stuff.

But if you want to figure out how it got all fucked up, like read about that guy because he was a total, a complete nutter, like basically purported that he went to Cornell and got all this works, all these WPA funds, and then basically just kind of faked it until he made it.

And his whole thing was like a difficult, you know, difficult par easy bogey kind of thing. Like that's fun. That's a true test of golf. Which I think you can do that for amateur golfers, you know, without making it just brutal to play. Like there's a ton of very challenging golf courses that I have a blast playing.

I just don't have a ton with narrow fareways, thick rough, unnecessary forced carries and a lot of the things that have defined golf for a lot of years. But Dege, I know it kind of seems like for better for worse. Like we're looking at like US opens, we'll put PGAs off to a separate category. Kind of know where all those are going to be played, right? And we tried two newer ones. one I think was pretty you know Aaron Hills and Chambers Bay

I don't think they deserve the scorn that I think they they are typically associated with but as far as like them some golf architecture nerds like that stuff but as far as the golf masses which the USGA is trying to appeal to like pretty clear verdict of okay we are going to do the classic

golf courses almost nothing there's going to be no no golf no US opens held at courses built post World War II anymore right like for any of the time coming. Why do we need to build more championship golf? And that's not what Derek's saying in the article. Like we need more championship golf courses. I just think like golf is catching up. I remember we walked off Mammoth Dunes and I said like probably it's probably 80% of the golf world's golf courses

are too hard and 20% are quote too easy and it probably should be completely flipped. And I think the more work that can be done to to equate that out because good players are going to enjoy playing easy style resort style courses. I think there's even more room to go. Like we just got. done playing Pinehurst number 10, like that could have been an easier resort course. Like I think, you know, there's some dope stuff in there that I think makes it, you know, a couple punches in the mouth that I'm like, oh, if you're just there as a resort get, like some architecture junkies are going to like that. But like, if you're just there as a resort, my dad might have a problem with that one.

Like, I don't know about that. So I've, I've yet to play a course in any of these new courses that is too easy to the point where I don't feel like I got like a challenge out of it or enjoyment out of it. And when that happens, when I play 10 of them, I think we got a problem. Otherwise, I like the direction that architecture is still going in. I'd argue the one course that we've played lately that is like designed to be a championship golf course is. But like putting a modern spin on it without high rough and narrow fairways is on the PGA Frisco. Fields Ranch and like, you know, Fields Ranch West.

gave me like 10 rounds between Fields Ranch West and Fields Ranch East. And I'm like a Gilhant's psychophant, you know, psychophant. Like I would probably say like I'm probably 5'5. Because Fields Ranch West is just too much golf course to play every day. No, I agree. And that's why I think it's, that's why I like the article I think because it got me at least thinking about this. And so I was, I was kind of with you where I'm like, well, have I played anything that It was like, I felt too easy and like too not challenging enough. Like, I don't think I have, but it, you know, I, Randy's big on this block.

I wish he was here to kind of talk about this. But he's, of the five of us, I think he's the most like, guys, this is supposed to be hard. This is supposed to be a challenge. This is supposed to be difficult. And I think he, I'm curious what he would say about this, because I think he does like to kind of embrace the suck at times. I think there's two different kinds of suck. I think there's suck that is not fun.

And there's suck that's like Pinehurst suck is like, you know, when you get punched by Pinehurst 2 is the best feeling. I don't know. I can't explain it, but it's like, I could have done that, man. And this punishment just feels right. Yet, you know, there's some, if you got Heather on both sides of the golf course and you're,

you know, you're playing with, you know, a 10 handicap that is having a miserable time, that's too hard of a golf course. Like a 10 handicap is not a bad golfer. Right. And that's the, that's the part that I think is, I'm very comfortably saying,

a couple of saying, like, we don't need any more of those courses. We'll call you. Because a lot of these courses live in the middle. Like, they're not hosting any championships. They're not, like, long enough and they're not, like, set up to be stages for championships. And they're not, even, like, those designs aren't the best ways to challenge the pros. So they just live in this impossible middle zone of, like, the, most people don't enjoy playing them. And you're also not hosting tournaments.

Well, I think that's what's funny, Sali, about that you kind of alluded to this. but with the, at least on the USGA side, with the anchor site mentality or the thinking of we're picking these eight, however many golf courses and like this is going to be our, essentially our rhoda. It's just funny, I think back on like Aaron Hills

and the whole legacy of that place being, you know, tracing back to this guy Bob Lang and him being at the 2000 U.S. Open and like that was his driving force was, I'm going to build a golf course that's going to host a U.S. open. And he did it, barely long story everybody i would recommend you should go read the backstory but i just wonder about yeah how many other people tried to do that and failed and now there's just a miserable golf course

somewhere that uh you know people are just walking off shooting 105 uh and so there is some good clarity from the usGA on just you y'all can stop we got we got it like it's not going to happen uh so just designed it to be a little different and to Derek's point. It's like I do think you've seen a lot of those new projects all just kind of zag in the complete different direction. So it's just it's interesting to follow what will happen over the next 10 years on that front. I do think the USGA should have a like a once a decade wild card. We're going to these eight or nine sites every decade. But the one you know, the one year there's there you know, we announce it maybe five years out and it's going to be we're going

draw the name out of a hat. Chambers Bay, come on down. I love that. I love that they were in that kind of experimental mode for a little while and they would put the amateur there first and they'd have kind of a dry run and you could kind of see. But yeah, I understand. I mean, it honestly kind of goes back to the,

the Royal County Down thing a little bit too where, and I should clarify, like all the, all the reporting on the County Down stuff is like, no, it's not necessarily for the open. We're just trying to, you know, they had the Irish Open. They're just trying to make things a little better for what they're doing. And maybe that's true.

Maybe we're taking some of the open championships too far until we get there. Because of PTSD with McKenzie and Eber. Yes, exactly. And I think that there's some, I understand the point of changes like that to, you know, have a place where you can keep going back to, to only change things once, you know, at one place. To keep making, you know, Shinnock a little bit. bit better. Maybe that's a bad example because it's a unique golf course, but to keep making Pinehurst a little bit better so that you don't have to keep doing that at five different venues,

I think is good for this conversation as well. Yeah. I mean, another, again, obvious thing here, like USGA and RNA got to figure out the distance thing. You can't, they're going to have problems with some of the venues they've already selected into the 2040s if they don't figure out this distance thing, which is supposed to, you know, we're behind, we're way behind on that, even with kind of, of the most recent plans on that. So all that, I say that to be like in a world where they don't figure out the distance thing, we're going to need to purpose built more championship golf courses, like 100%. Yeah.

Which on that note, the cat is going to design a new course in Northern Ireland, the Lynx course. Yeah, not a ton of details other than kind of the location was in there, I believe. But it's like, that's, yeah, I don't have a ton to add other than. then we'll see. That's that's kind of fascinating. It would be his first foray into that, that type of golf, I believe, right?

Yes. It would. I know he works with Bo Welling and, you know, Bo kind of does the majority of the work in it, but I would be very, in Tiger's mind, like the way he describes the old course,

I'd be very curious, like to play a design of Tigers in some way on a link's golf course. I, yes. I don't know how I feel about this one. Because I feel like I've waffled back and forth between like my first impression was just like, I don't know about that.

My second impression. I hated Paines Valley. I haven't had a ton of experience on Tigers golf courses, but yeah, that one was not my favorite. Then I kind of ping to exactly what you're saying, it was just like, I don't know that. I mean, the guy does understand Link's golf.

Like, that's kind of his, it's one of his superpowers. But then I'm also thinking about, like, well, Jack Nicholas was good at links golf too. And I don't know if his, you know, some of his architecture stuff doesn't totally jive with. Actually, like, coming back to the, is it going to be fun for people to play? Lange. Like Arnie's stuff at Trilly. Trilly, yeah.

Trilly is so wildly different than any of his stuff. And I know that's Ed Say and Minchu Mania and those guys. but like that's a legitimately great links golf course it is it is that's that's that's that's more of where I was headed with that all right TC we got some mods and ends we got to get through here what you got yeah I'm told Bryson played with the Amish mm-hmm did anybody watch this uh I clicked around just to kind of just to kind of see you know what was going on this was another one of those just immediate obviously like cash me out flip the switch uh you know But then I did click it too.

I watched a couple minutes. I'm like, you know, screw on the game, man. You know, he's out there. He's out there. These kids look like they're having a great time. Like, I don't think this is hurting anybody.

So I think he's fully embracing his role as the YouTube golfer. Would this be, do I, could I picture Scotty Sheffler on the road to like becoming the best professional golfer possible doing something like this? No. But I think Bryson's a one of one. So yeah, nobody else is doing it like that, T.C. Maybe that's my takeaway.

You got to hand that to him. Speaking of which, Brody Miller had a great piece on Scotty Shuffler this past week about how he's, you know, kind of, yeah, taking the opposite approach. Yeah. Just a quick summary of that, it was just to look into how many millions Scotty leaves on the table by not really having a full endorsement portfolio. He's got, you know, seven or so sponsors, but just likes working with certain people and just as not. not living a life of trying to chase the dollar at every stop and was a refreshing, you know, basically TGL is not going to work for Scott. It's going to pull me away from my family more than I want to be and we're not doing that.

We're not doing that here. So it was a great, great read. What a refreshing. It was a loyalty too. Yeah. He was like, yeah, like I work with Huntington Bank because it was Veritex Bank and they supported me when nobody else was sponsoring me straight out of college kind of thing. So what else we got?

Our old friend Harry Arnett back at Callaway. Yeah. Back in the golf. Yeah. Was that municipal giving that brand going for the next, God, that had to be, I don't even know, six, seven years. Something like that. Yeah. Golf's better with Harry in it.

That's great. Congrats to him. I am monitoring the battle of the caps lock playing out between the players championship, you know, no caps. no cap and the players so currently right now on the schedule because of course the tour has gotten rid of the all caps so it's just the PGA tour like it's cycling out yeah like style you know stylized as a normal human being would stylize it and but it's still it's the players championship you know lowercase except for the first first letter at the players all caps stadium course still. That's how it's listed on the site. So I'm just

inter-sentence fighting going on there. Yeah. So we'll see how I give it maybe 48 hours until it's changed on the site. They're going to have to probably reprint a bunch of it's it's a bit like your 150th open thing. T.C. They're going to have to reprint a bunch of like stuff on site. It's all in tag. Yeah, exactly. This guy TCs all over us. We've got to get us unified. You should remember when you left all those. Back on the Google. Yeah, remember when you left all those Google.

reviews on the individual holes at sawgrass you should you might need to comb through those see if you find i will i will uh what else we got we got a fun controversy out in l a big big uh like handicap i guess a couple of guys have gotten kicked out of a club out there for for cheating the gin system or like deleting right you know posting and then deleting rounds and stuff there's a whole thing on um cc confidential uh had this so i think I think it's at Lakeside Golf Club. I'd heard some rumors of this prior. So, and then, yeah, actually the people from that high school golf cheating scandal,

one of the guys tracking that reached out. He wants to talk to Neil. He wants to fill him in all the way on that out in Iowa. Educate him. Yeah. And then the Hero Indian Open is back on the schedule for DP World Tour for March, all praise to Dr. Mungal

and condolences go out to Kevin Kisner. Maybe he'll go. Maybe they're growing the game too much in India. Yeah. So that's not to be in peace with the November or the October event that they do as well.

And then we just had some silly stuff in TGL. Silly stuff. Yeah, silly season. We had some five-man teams announced. We got Motor City as the seventh franchise. That's Kepka, Coyvin, Siwu, Jake Knapp, Bud Colley. We had a trade, Dali, a trade of Shane Lowry went from the Bay to Boston. Building a coalition over there, him and Roy.

I think for some sort of player compensation to be named later. I don't know how those guys are going to get along with Keegan. Yeah, he's got kids in school, too, that move all the way across the country like that. It's tough. I hate it. I hate it. So out of TV. They're in win now mode, man.

You got to go. Go get a ring. They're going into the second apron. Exactly. The luxury tax. It's going to be big. Kisner is out. Zander is out.

Adam Scott is out. And Lucas Glover is out. And in our Ryan Fox and Blades Brown at the Bay. And then Keith Mitchell slides in at Jupiter Links. Love it. Feels very. feels very apropos for him

and then Ben James is in at L.A. The Gulf of the future. The Air Friar. And then Michael Brennan in Atlanta, which, yeah. Fantastic. And then, yeah,

some Grant Thornton pairings. Nellie and Michael Brennan, maybe the two best players in the world their respective genders right now. Kira Romero and Jackson Coyven. That's a fun one. a fun one uh like i think like eight months pregnant lexie and harris english that'll be interesting and jennifer cup show and chris godderup it's a very strange one so uh yeah that's what i got

saw thank you uh tc can i ask if i could be so bold what's going on with your golf game because i feel like we've got some messages this week that were just really bleak really bleak Some of it seems like it was weather related, but it seems like you just, I don't know. I feel like, you know, these videos come out and like, of course, who knows what will happen in the finale of tourist sauce, but you're obviously playing some good golf up until, you know, this point of the season that people have seen. You've been playing great golf for the last year and a half, probably. I mean, just playing really good.

And I'm just getting a critical mass of messages. I don't know where the ball is going. I don't know how to score. I don't know how to play golf. I stink. I suck. I need to take time off. Just maybe your response to.

Yeah. Yeah, one of the guys I was playing with this week. We had our, the Blue Man group was our club championship here at PVIC. We're getting the same weather as they're getting in Bermuda. It's been crazy windy, like 30 to 40 mile an hour winds, higher gusts than that. I mean, it must have rained two inches yesterday while we were on the course and then it drained off real quick. And we went right back out. But yeah, I'm playing like legitimately horrible golf.

I just can't. I can't figure it out. I have not been the same golfer since the 11th pole in Alaska. That was it. That was the peak. Yeah, I just, I've like totally forgotten like how to strike the golf ball and just turn my hands over and and everything.

There's been little glimmers here and there. But like I think I went three and a half rounds without making a birdie here lately. And grant, some of that's, yeah, playing some time. tough conditions down here the last few days. But my iron play has just been atrocious. My driving's mostly fine. It's just my iron play.

My wedges are inconsistent. My putting has been, I put like two 30 gram weights in the bottom of my putter. I think that potter might be a little too heavy for me right now. You're just exhausted. Swing of that. I'm trying everything. The only thing that's left to try is to stop playing for like three or four weeks.

and just totally reset. Man. Yeah. So it's not good. That was the Friday. We both played separately on Friday. And it was like wind, just like with some wet,

moist, tight, starting to go dormant Bermuda and just like golf course is coming alive. Like that little 83 degrees plus humid, you know, ball's going to stay in the air. It's going to carry. It's going to be soft

and you can get away with whatever you want. That's gone. Winner is he is coming, Jacks. So I had a scorecard in my hand. hand on Friday. I started out. I lived for Bertie on one. I'm like, oh, hell yeah. Like I went up, I warmed up appropriately. I had a great session last week with with our friend Aaron LaTrell up at Pinehurst and in the type of us. Yeah, I just felt like my bags dialed all that stuff. And I made,

I made, I made, I went par quad, par quad. That was my start in our cloud championship. And I'm like, you know, I'm eight over through through five. And it's like, like, some of it's fluky stuff. Like I got caught. I bladed one from one bunker to another and I was in the back of this bunker. And then I bladed the next one like from the back of the bunker, just trying to get it out anywhere into like the space between the lip and the sand. But you could like lift up the,

it was like lifting up the covers. Like you could like lift up the sod and like the ball. So it technically wasn't embedded. So I played two balls as Arnie did back. What would I already do? I made an eight with both balls. Never found out what the rule was. Yeah, it did matter.

Yeah. I asked our, like, we took pictures. We took a little video. We're like, all right, here's the ball up underneath there. So, but yeah, it was, yeah, just pretty, pretty demoralizing. So we'll keep your posts on if we find a, find a solution here. Yeah. We're just going to have to dig it out of the dirt.

I'm not setting up an ad read here, but the stack. I think what you're describing with your body would just those golf muscles, man. They'll get moving. I also shot 81 on Friday, so I'm kind of right there. What I'll say is it's just, I don't know how many times you can go through the cycle

of like you play a good round or two, like you're playing good, and you just completely convince yourself that you are it, like you are the guy. Like you've got it. Like what can I sign up for? Like here we go. go just have it crashed down immediately like two rounds later.

I don't know how many times you got to do that cycle before you stop doing the I'm the guy thing. I don't know. I can't tell you how many times I've done it. It's amazing. This time I thought was different. And it's just not. It's amazing. It's crazy that that wasn't different.

I know. Never I'm the guy because I'm always like, man, like I stink and like this is so fleeting. Yeah. So straight up, I don't have that problem. I don't ever feel like out the window at any point. But I feel like, I feel like, I feel like when. I was in Alaska. My back swing just got shorter and shorter and shorter as that round went along.

Yeah. And I just haven't recovered from it. And I'm afraid to pull the club back too far. I'm scared. I think if anybody's got swing tips for TC, you need to hit them up. Yeah, send them in the mentions. TC, you're not, you're pronating here. You need to be supinating here.

All that stuff. We need to get them deep into swing thoughts. All right. That is going to do it for today. The PGA tour this next week is off to Vedanta World. The LPGA has the Maybank and Malaysia. The DP World Tour is off until Abu Dhabi the next week. We'll have the Asia Pacific Amateur is down in New Zealand at Teirai South, of course.

Or both courses? South. South. South. South. South. Yeah. Big South.

On our front, we have the first three episodes of Torres Sauce are out on the No Layup YouTube channel. We will have the season finale out this coming Wednesday. If I give a shout out, T. T.C. had an excellent write up in our newsletter. this past week if you're not subscribed to our newsletter. We can put a link to this show in the in the show notes here to do that

just about what this trip meant on a lot of different fronts and we've got a lot of great, great feedback from a lot of people on this season and you're going to love the finale as well. And then shout to the trap draw from this past week. Randy missing his flight while sitting at the gate

was pretty electric but I think the underrated storyline from that was Randy Randy's aversion to travel size. I'm so glad you said that. I shouldn't agree more with you. I was sitting in the room in the moment. As I was, as he was spilling that out, I'm like, what are you to? Well, I just don't know where to find.

Where can I find to these? I was like, anywhere. Anywhere. I forgot my toiletries in, at the Piner's trip. I went to CVS and found travel stuff immediately. So because he doesn't have travel sized toiletries, he packs his, his toiletries. So then if anything gets, happens with his luggage, he doesn't have his toiletries. He's crazy.

he's bringing those huge armen hammer toothpaste with them just toe of those towing those things all over the world arm and hammer um also this past week dj and i sat down with butch harmon uh for a podcast episode that people have really uh loved and we loved as well so that's on you can find that anywhere you get your podcast if you haven't listened to that one but he's allie i had i had four different blue men come up to me on friday and saturday blue man with texie like i'm like i I love that pod you guys did with with Butch. That was awesome. Keep it up.

And these are, you know, these are anywhere between 35 to 65 year olds. Yeah, there's something for everybody in that one for sure. When he started bringing up presidents, I was like, it was a roller coaster of emotions and like where he's going to net out on this.

He was like, he ripped a red president and then he loved a red president. Then he ripped a blue one. He loved a blue. I was like, oh, man. Okay, we navigated that one.

Good job. Yeah. That's a great one. And as mentioned, in all likelihood, the first episode, kind of the prequel episode to the Live Golf oral history will likely be out this week. So stay tuned for that. That's going to be a series that we're going to roll out here

over the next several weeks. Looking back at state of minds, state of play, tried to get back into these different years for the crazy last few years that we've experienced. But this episode will span everything up until the beginning of 2022, which, believe it or not, was a lot of stuff. so make sure you're subscribed and ready to rock on that drops. Premier Golf League, terrorist golf league.

If you're one of the Live Golf Men, you need to check this one out. Yeah, you can get early access to it at LiveGolfmen.com. The Birdhouse Reservations are open as well, T.C., is that right? They are, yes, so far as our property at Sweetens Cove. We've got a few dates still lined up for, There are a few open dates. They're still out there for, you know, dates that the course is open for. So especially in the downstairs unit.

So check that out, birdhouse. Dot no laying up.com. If you book in the next week and a half, you get guaranteed passes to Sweetens as well, which are tough to come by. Sweet. Thanks to our friends at Tidalis, Holderness and Bourne and Lagoon. Thank you all for being here with us for another fun fall episode. We've got a lot of great ones coming.

They're made of this fall as well. So like and subscribe. We'll see you back here next week. Cheers. Cheers. Right on.