No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - 831 - Jim Nantz Returns

Episode Date: May 8, 2024

Four years after his first appearance on the pod we welcome Jim Nantz of CBS back to detail the changes in the network's golf coverage, offer some context around the growth of the Masters coverage and infrastructure, Scottie Scheffler's recent dominance and the current fractured environment in pro golf. We also get some amazing stories from Jim's time on the road, his favorite meal spots at various tour stops, and an incredible story to close us out surrounding an encounter from early in his career with an iconic actor at an iconic course. If you enjoyed this episode, consider joining The Nest: No Laying Up’s community of avid golfers. Nest members help us maintain our light commercial interruptions (3 minutes of ads per 90 minutes of content) and receive access to exclusive content, discounts in the pro shop, and an annual member gift. It’s a $90 annual membership, and you can sign up or learn more at nolayingup.com/join Support our partners: Precision Pro Rangefinders - code NLU for $20 off fanduel.com/nlu  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

the right club today. Better than most. Better than most. Better than most. Expect anything different. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No Laying Out podcast. Solid here got an interview coming shortly with Jim Nance. Of course, we talk about the first time he was on the podcast four years ago. We talked about some changes at CBS, the Masters memories, PGA Championship experiences, where he goes to eat in different cities.

Some stories there at the end as well. He's a great guy. Got to know Jim. I've been very fortunate enough to get to know Jim over the last several years. He's truly one of the nicest people I've met in golf and we had a lot to talk about. So greatly appreciate his time.

We are also proud to say season nine of Tora Sauce is presented by our longtime partners at Precision Pro Golf. New episodes premiere Wednesday. Wednesday night's at 9 PM Eastern Time on the NoLayingUp YouTube channel. You know about the variety of NoLayingUp designs they offer for the NX10 rangefinder. They're also adding another one to the mix to commemorate Taurusau season nine.

This is an awesome design with a nod to Australia. It's got a Wayward Golfer logo on the background inspired by a jar of Vegemite, if you're watching on YouTube. I'm showing it off to the camera right here. The NX10, of course, is fast, accurate, reliable. It's got all the features you want in a rangefinder and would expect with the added touch of an NLU design.

If you have an older Precision Pro model like the NX7 or the NX9, you can utilize their trade-up program. Returning customers get 30% off a new rangefinder purchased when upgraded to the latest and greatest that Precision Pro has to offer. Everybody needs a rangefinder, give them a shout. They've supported great content from our video side of the house of Taurus Sauce.

It's a big swing for them, it's a big swing for us. All that we would ask is support them because they make a great product and have really, really been instrumental in supporting some of what we would consider to be our best content. We could not do without them. Code NLU at precisionprogolf.com gets you $20 off your NX 10 rangefinder. You can support the brands that support us. Precisionprogolf.com. Once again, code NLU for $20 off. Here's Jim Nance.

Well, Jim, four years later, we're meeting on different terms than we were the last time. I think we did a podcast in 2020. For those that don't remember, we had a lovely spirited debate about the ongoing golf at CBS and how far our friendship has come and how far CBS has come in recent years. Well, I really enjoyed that first pod with you, Sali. I really did. I think a lot of people thought it was contentious. I didn't think so, but I have good memories of it. What I really remember about it was I recorded it from the 18th tower at Harbor Town. And our tower that year, because it was the second tournament back after COVID, was overlooking the harbor there, not overlooking the 18th green. It was about a hundred yards or so from the 18th green.

And I remember it being dark, kind of stormy outside, and we had just finished Colonial the week before, which was the first tournament back. When I look back on that summer, it was a wild experience and what it took to get those shows on the air. I know we don't need to go back through all that again, but I was the only one out there in the tower.

I wasn't allowed to have any assistance. The only other announcer on site was Dottie on the ground. Never saw Dottie in 10 weeks. Never saw her face to face. Never saw the producer or the director, Lance and Steve. We were all isolated. And we had to come in on Wednesdays at that time and not leave our room except for a one hour grace period

where you could go out and take a walk. Your meals, breakfast, lunch, and dinner were left at your door. You were tested Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. I mean, it was a bizarre, lonely, crazy experience. And in the middle of that, or on the front end of that we were visiting. So just to give us some context the last time we did it. Yeah, that was a, it doesn't seem even like a real period of time looking back.

I don't remember a lot of it, even at that time, I think we're all trying to block out a lot of, a lot of those time periods, but a lot has changed at CBS in recent years It's I I certainly view your guys the product you guys are putting out much differently than I did at that time period I'm just curious kind of what you're most proud of in terms of the evolution of golf on CBS There's a ton of stuff I want to ask you about all the steps that have taken to get there and the level of investment that's required in covering Golf and all that but I'm curious for your perspective, kind of what do you sense the kind of the fan

reaction has been to steps you guys have taken in recent years? Well, I think it starts with the fact there's a commitment at the top from management. They've given us the financial backing and resources to try to be cutting edge on on technology and make sure that our shows shine. The second thing I'm most proud of is the continuity that's been there with CBS Golf. And this is going back decades. The fact there have only been three leaders in the history of CBS Golf and they all learned from the one before them.

Cherkenyan had no one to learn from. He kind of invented golf television. And then his right hand man, of course, was Lance Barrow. And Lance got to sit in a chair, you know, win Emmys and do great things for over a quarter century. And then Sellers was his right-hand man. And you think about it, other than the Pittsburgh Steelers who have had three head coaches in 60 years, the only thing you can compare it to is CBS Golf. I mean, our leadership has been solid and there's continuity that goes through everything. Our announce team has been together a long time.

Trevor's, you know, he's new. He's second year in the 18th hour. But Dottie's been there a long time. Baker Finch has been there now for maybe 15 years. And it goes well beyond that. The technical team, the other folks on the production team, Steve Milton's been a part of it for 39 years. There's continuity. There's a love. There's a passion for golf and hopefully that that comes out on our shows. 100% No, it uh, I

don't want to distill everything down into just the walk in talks, right? But that was a signal, I think for a lot of people in terms of all right, there's there's major shifting landscapes in the world of golf, and we could talk about some of that here today. But what are PGA Tour players going to do to invest in their product? What is CBS going to do? What is the PGA Tour going to do? And I think I look back at our convo from four years ago and I think of, you made some

great points on there in terms of we were maybe a bit hard on CBS directly, right? And maybe some of the contractual obligations that the PGA Tour is stipulating and the commercial load is the same on NBC as it is on CBS. And it all kind of comes back to me with the feeling that I'm left with as a viewer, right? Even if all those things are accurate, you want to take out your angst.

A lot of it gets directed to broadcasters, even things that aren't your guys' decisions. But it just seemed like at a certain point there was a, you know, if I may say, I feel like one of the other networks seems to be going backwards in this. And you said it off the top of like the investment in the product and the higher-ups at CBS that have said, hey, here's how we are going to advance. Here's what we're going to do. And man, it just seems like you guys have the ball rolling downhill at this point. Well, I'm really happy with where we are. And I really am so pleased that CBS sees the return and investing in this golf product.

It feels really good. The one thing that we were talking about, that I don't remember a lot about that conversation, but we were talking about the commercial loads are similar. I think they're actually exactly the same. And I was probably coming off as defensive about that. But it wasn't just something that CBS decided we're going to sell more commercials and sell

as many as we want. There are contractual, there's language on that. The other thing was, I may have said it back then, I want us all to be on top of it. I know people want to set up a competitive landscape between CBS and NBC. I don't root against NBC at all. I swear to you, there are so few people to get to broadcast this PGA tour. I want us all to shine. I want the PGA tour to look good. We're not on at the same time. We get a certain number of weeks. They get a certain number of weeks. We're

all in this together. So when I'm watching this summer after we finish with our second major, I'll be watching the US Open and the Open Championship on NBC. I'll be watching every minute and I don't watch it critically. I know golf Twitter and you guys can watch it and take issue with this decision, that decision. All I can tell you is there's hundreds of decisions that are made every hour. And some decisions are gonna be the right place to go, the wrong place to go, win the slot certain things.

But I'm not watching it that way. I'm watching it rooting for them, rooting for golf to be good, the broadcast to be good. And I'm really proud of what we're doing though right now. I really am. Well, that's kind of what I want to get at. You mentioned the investment there and I just kind of want to hear you talk a bit about how that all comes back together, right?

If you look at covering golf as a line item on an income statement, it can make a lot of sense to say, all right, we'll cut that camera there, we'll cut that camera there. And it's not as simple as saying, hey, if we add these six cameras, we're going to see this much financial return on it, right? It's all building up towards an overall product. And at the same time, you have these shifting landscapes in golf where, again, what you're rooting for out of NBC is if everyone's interested in golf, if they're creating a buzzworthy product, that helps CBS when it's your guys' week to come back on.

And it seems like there's just a lot of stuff dragging golf down at the moment. Obviously, with live golf, the ratings have taken a hit in a lot of places. And I'm just kind of curious how you can explain to viewers in all the sports you've been around for all of your years, how fan interest drives things, how ratings drive decision

making, how investment in the product is driven, and just kind of give us a little bit of a lesson, how fan interest drives things, how ratings drive decision making, how investment in the product is driven, and just kind of give us a little bit of a lesson on how that works. I think we can understand the real broad stuff, but just you have so many different perspectives from so many different sports. Well, again, I'm not looking at those spreadsheets

and budget lines. The only place I do that is with my wine brand, okay? That's my world when I've actually had some control over it and I can look at line items But I think that the thought process is you you know You can't look at one camera and say that's gonna cost me X number of thousand dollars for that week to get that equipment To get the camera operator and all those expenses that go with that and say hmm Did it really make up a tenth of a rating point difference?

It had you have to be a visionary as a leader to know overall you're going to get return, the quality, the appreciation of what you're doing. And thankfully, that's what we have. With golf has been, at CBS, since back in the 50s, it's been an important part of our network. The network has always tried to shine a light on it. Led by, of course, the Masters coverage going back to 1956. It's been important to this network. And I think in some respects, you could say that the Masters is the most important show on the

entire CBS television network, sports or otherwise, because there's that continuity. There's that expectation of excellence. It's a reflection on who we are more than anything. You know, somebody might say 60 minutes, somebody might say it was Gunsmoke or All in the Family or Mary Todd or more, you know, Hawaii Five-0, I don't know, name the show, but the constant has been the Masters and the quality of that broadcast being a reflection on the quality of CBS. On the note of the Masters, you've seen a lot of golf at that place.

You've seen a lot of things at that place. And I'm curious, this was my first Masters. We got to spend a little time together down there at Augusta and we got to, you know, it's my first one kind of covering it as a press member instead of just kind of being there for a practice round. And I was just amazed at the scale of everything. Everything you don't see on television, everything that's just barely on the edges of the property, you know,

in terms of parking lots for the press building, the employee dining, like all of these buildings. It really is just insane. I'm wondering if you could kind of go all the way back to your first Masters. You've seen this tournament evolve so much in the span of almost 40 years. What as, I guess if you see it year by year, maybe it's not as amazing as it was to me to just see all that infrastructure, but you've seen this tournament change so much and it is truly one of a kind. And I don't even know what my question is

other than to ask you to speak on some of that scale. Yeah, how much has changed? We had a really good visit there. I enjoyed that time pre-tournament. And I believe we drove by our former compound. You almost can't even describe what the square footage of that piece of the property would be. It was so tiny. And we had shows being produced out of there until they developed the new media content center,

which is now four to five years old. Maybe I'm in the neighborhood there. years old, maybe I'm in the neighborhood there. And I believe there are 66 production trucks now that are lined up to broadcast the Masters with every shot, every hole, all the international feeds, all that goes into it. On the scale, it is, we used to have three trucks. So it's 20 something to one in terms of the manpower and the equipment from what it used to be. I guess in just short math, that's about the best I can say it, but they haven't really missed anything. I mean, they have thought of every single thing you can come up with, as you said, right down to the media parking lot, what that's going to look like. It's perfection. It really is. It's a dream world.

Well, that kind of goes to back to our previous part of our conversation in terms of visionary and investing in your product and go all the way back to reading David Owen's book, Making of the Masters and understanding the origins of golf on the Masters on CBS, I think in 1956, if I remember right, of the messaging of here's the limited commercial windows,

here's exactly what it's going to... And just to see what has spawned from that product some 70 years later, which is crazy to say 60, 70 years later, it just kind of speaks to exactly what we were talking about there. And I don't know, I've seen the tournament on TV for so many years, but then actually go on a little bit behind the scenes and understanding how it has come to be what it is. I walked away with kind of even more amazement and appreciation for it.

And you've just been a part of almost all that history. That's what I was curious if it, you know, as it's played out, what that growth has looked like to you. Well, it's been 39 years for me now, broadcasting the Masters Tournament. I wouldn't trade it for anything. I don't mean to disparage, I don't think I am any other sport, but I would not trade that event for anything, including the Super Bowl, which I broadcast just two months before this year's Masters

for the seventh time as the play-by-play, two times as the host, so nine Super Bowl broadcasts and all, but I wouldn't trade any of them for a Masters. The Masters to me, it's funny, I just had that crazy childhood dream. That was the pull for me, solidly, was to want to work for CBS one day because of that tournament. But as much as I obsessed about it, really, truly, it was obsessive. I never could have dreamt as big as it is now. It's bigger than I could have ever imagined. The week, this blur, it comes and it goes. This year was another storybook week. It wasn't compelling at the end, but I found it really riveting. One thing about the ratings, you've mentioned the ratings earlier. We know that golf ratings are

Now, one thing about the ratings, you've mentioned the ratings earlier. We know that golf ratings are showing kind of a downward trend. And I don't know what, you know, I think we all know that part of the disruption in golf is turning some people off the game. That's indisputable. It's interesting, this year at the Masters, our Saturday rating was equal or fractionally up from 2023. Sunday was down like 20%. I do know this that on Sunday, the weather all the way up and down the eastern seaboard and roughly 40% of the country's population was bathing in the first like spring-like weather of the year on that Sunday.

And that does hurt a little bit. I just found it interesting that Saturday was even, and then Sunday plummeted so much. But one of these days it'll be back, and thankfully again, I'm not paid to concern myself with the ratings, I concern myself with the story. And I thought we had another good story to tell this year with Scotty. Just for the record for the listeners, I thought we had another good story to tell this year with Scotty.

Just for the record for the listeners, you're not reaching for a tie to this. I've heard that before in terms of the weather on the East Coast, specifically in the Northeast is so heavily populated. The better the weather, the more TV ratings dip in all sports. Is that fair to say? As I understand it, that's amazing. You know, the highest rated, not the most watched, the highest rated Super Bowl of all time. So there's two things. There's highest rating, what percentage of the televisions are watching something. And then the most watched is actually just hardcore numbers.

Like our Super Bowl this year was the most watched Super Bowl of all time, by a lot. Average 123 million constant, and actually was viewed, supposedly, by 203 million Americans at one time. But the most, the highest rated Super Bowl of all time was long ago, San Francisco against Cincinnati and Pontiac, Michigan. The Midwest, the East were stuck in a freezer. It was like minus three degrees in New York or something that weekend. And all across, it was just the country was in a deep freeze and people had no option other than to watch the game. They had like a 49.2 rating.

It was the first win of that 49ers dynasty. And that was a CBS game, by the way, a little before my time. That was like 80, 82, I guess, 81, 82. So yeah, weather has a lot to do with it. No Lying Up is sponsored by Fandl. Whether you're playing golf or betting on it, there is nothing worse than first tee jitters. Both Fandl, you can crush your first bet off the tee right now. New customers get $150

in bonus bets guaranteed with any $5 bet. It's 150 bucks win or lose. I actually just took advantage of this offer when I stopped in Colorado on my way out to Band in Dunes. They got great PGA Tour season, long bets, longest drive, close to pin, outright winners. They got great markets around major championships, signature events, all kinds of stuff. They got men's, women's stuff. It's really impressive markets they have. So you can visit fandle.com slash nlu. Hit your first bet right down the middle of the fairway with Fandle, America's number

one sports book. Fandle, official betting operator of the PGA Tour. Must be 21 or older, 18 and older in D.C. and present in select states. Gambling problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Real online money wager, only $10 first deposit required bonus issued is non-retributable bonus bets that expire seven days after receipt restriction supplies. See terms at sportsbook.fandual.com. Back to the pod.

You've seen a lot of golf in your time. I'm wondering if you could kind of come up with a comp for Scottie Scheffler and what he's doing, right? There's one guy that has kind of messed up the conversation for my generation in terms of what great golf looks like. So it's really hard to have a rational conversation about what he's doing. If somebody says he's the best since tiger, people freak out and say, nobody can be compared to tiger and said, no, that's not, it's not what I said. Best since tiger. What, what kind of comparison can you come up with for

Scottie Scheffler? Well, we're on the front end of being able to make any big conclusion. So right now we're running on front end of being able to make any big conclusions. So right now we're running on spec. He's won two of the last three majors. He's been in contention at a bunch of others and he's on a super hot streak right now. But we're on the front end of this. This is a run that has a lot more room to grow. Last week in Houston, hosting an event for Insperity and the Insperity Invitational on the Champions Tour. And one night we had a celebration

of Legends of the Game. And I hosted, before a room of about 1,000 people, a roundtable with Jack Nicklaus, Gary Player, Lee Trevino, Tom Watson, Annika Sorenstam. Scotty Shuffler was a question I lobbed out there, much like what you just did to me. So deferring now to their perspectives on it, guys and gals that have had that kind of dominance,

this was not a media question looking for a sound bite, but their level of praise for him was so effusive. I walked out thinking, this really truly is the beginning of an era. I mean, there's so many good players out there. You don't win every major championship unless you have some of those streaks like Tiger around 2000. But their trained eyes tell them dominant player. Dominant, what does that mean?

Maybe 10 years from now, he's at a total of 10 major championships. You hate to make these crazy predictions, but Scottie is nothing but a winner. I mean, he won like 95 junior tournaments and you know, you guys have had him on, you know, when he was growing up as a kid in Dallas, he won everything. And once he starts winning, he wins more.

So that doesn't mean he's going to win the PGA next week. And it doesn't mean he's going to win the US Open, but I think we're going to have him as a steady favorite to win golf at the highest level for a long time. And I love watching him play, by the way, people are talking about, oh, he doesn't move the needle, all that stuff. Well, he will. The more he becomes a dominant player, the more people are going to be into what he's doing, which

needs to be watched in respect. And that was my next question. Again, your sports experience goes far beyond golf. But I was just going to ask, what does create a star? Because if I was to name off the stars in golf, I think Rory McElroy would roll off my tongue faster than Scottie Scheffler, even though Scottie's whooping him

on the golf course at the moment. In your mind, what makes a star? Is it just dominance for a long period of time? Is it charisma? Kind of what, does Scottie want to be a star? What are the benefits? What are the downsides ofie want to be a star? What are the benefits? What are the, uh, you know, the downsides of that? What, what makes a star?

Well, I think there is something to charisma and magnetism, but I also think that just hardcore winning helps develop all of that and you start to see more things that you didn't maybe recognize initially, but the respect for somebody who's great at something, that's, we're just entering that phase with him. So sit back, enjoy the ride. Based on the legends I spoke to last week, not putting words in their mouths, but Trevino told a great story. Trevino loved to practice in his heyday at Royal Oaks there in Dallas, where Scottie was raised on the game by Randy Smith.

And Torino said he would practice there because it's so tree-lined and tight, it really served him well to go out and play on the tour after that. If I could drive the ball at Royal Oaks, I could play anywhere. He said, well, first off, Scotty was raised there. He said, I remember seeing him when he was seven years old and that leg, that right foot spinning out and he watched it and watched it. And of course, he said the same thing we've heard that Randy said, I'm never changing.

That's works for him. Thank God he never changed it. I actually remember commentators when Scottie first came on the tour saying, oh, that will never work. He's going to have to tighten that up. Well, you know, he's his own man with his own beliefs and his abilities and it's obviously worked. But the greatest thing that Trevino said was what made a bigger impression on him was that Scheffler would come to the course, even in the dead of summer there,

wearing trousers. Everybody was in shorts, except Scotty. Scotty would wear pants every day to Royal Oaks. He said, one day I walked up to this kid and I said, excuse me young man, why aren't you wearing shorts? And Scotty said, sir, they play on the PGA tour in long pants and I want to be on the PGA tour one day. It's a good one. Gosh, it's funny. I still think we're learning way more about Scotty. I think we, we don't, Scotty. I think we don't,

you know, I think it, you know, it may not have fully captivated people yet, but like you said, more winning is just gonna lead to that. We've kind of tiptoed around some of the ongoings of golf. I think we can kind of know what we're referring to in that. You've gotten a couple, you've snuck a couple subtle little digs in at Liv from time to time in broadcast. What? Yeah, just a little. What are you talking about, man? Super sly, crosswalk references up there on the CW with Kepka.

What's been the reaction to that? Well, I know they've stirred a reaction, but you're referring to last year at the Masters. Brooks was right there playing with Ram and he had to hit a layup shot at 15. His layup shot stopped on the crosswalk. Obviously this was nothing pre-planned. Everybody refers to it as the CW. I mean, yeah, there was. There's a Keppke now on the CW.

Pause. The crosswalk. OK. Playful. OK. A little bit like Al Michaels calls it, the rascal in me. But I didn't think it was a shot at him. I mean, just having a little play on words.

The other one that got some traction last year was at Oak Hill. And it may have even been on Thursday's opening round, Dustin Johnson was being introduced off of one. When the starter introduces the player, it's usually about a 15 second gap where you can insert a thought before they hit the shot. You don't speak over the shot. But Dustin, as you recall last year had won the week before the PGA.

I believe the tournament was in Tulsa and that the end of the tournament was not shown. It was a playoff. You recall this? Yes. Yes. So three man playoff. So I just wanted to let the viewers know he was coming in hot. And I said, you may not have had a chance to see it last week, but Dustin Johnson comes

here after a win in Tulsa last week. Short and sweet. I could have said the same thing about anybody, somebody that won the week before at the Nelson. You may not have seen it, but Taylor Penderith won last week in Dallas. Anyway, it created a forest fire. I certainly wasn't trying to take any shots. Those aren't shots. Those are just kind of playful little moments the way I look at it.

I will say there was one other though. It just hit me because I know that there was a reaction particularly from whoever is on social media defending Liv. They get very, from what I'm saying, you know all about that, right? It's a weird landscape. Very strong, what would you call it? Anti-missile attack. That kind of defense system. County department, something like that.

So put it in perspective, when Brooks won the PGA last year, we covered the golf tournament. Did I say that Brooks Koepka played on Liv? Yes, I did. Right at the very beginning of the day, and he was coming up 18. Didn't avoid it. I covered a golf tournament. Stated fact. When Scottie Shuff were two putted for Bertie at 15 at the Masters this year, the leaderboard was on the screen and I said, there's a look at the leaderboard and the first five names

you see play the PGA Tour. It was a fact. It wasn't a shot. I wasn't taking any attack on anybody. I just made an observation that I think actually a lot of viewers at home were aware of that too. I wasn't sticking it in anybody's face. I just happened to make a statement.

But I understand I got a lot of people up in arms that are in that department you spoke of before. I don't know if it's a lot of people. It might just be the loudest people. That's kind of a... Yeah. Honestly, I'm not worried about it. I wasn't trying to it's a lot of people. It might just be the loudest people. That's kind of a cut out. Yeah. Honestly, I'm not worried about it. I wasn't trying to take a shot at anybody.

I just stated a fact, much like I stated a fact last year when Brooks was coming up the 18th at Oak Hill that he plays the live tour. This was a big win for him and we gave him his due and his justice. Just as we will next week, if somebody like Brooks, which is very possible, wins at Valhalla, I'm there to tell the story and not really trying to opine on any of that. Well, that's my opinion on this is just like those those major championships belong to the individual. It doesn't belong to the tour either tour, right? You know, it's the it's the

individual that wins them. And it doesn't really change a whole lot for either tour. It doesn't, you know, it doesn't drive more interest for, for the, you know, the PGA tour, if a PGA tour player wins, you know, they've won six, the last seven majors, I think since the, some guys have left for live since then, but it hasn't driven ratings on the PGA tour side. And when Brooks winning a major didn't drive ratings on the live side. So it's, uh, the majors have just separated themselves into this entirely different category. Again, going back to kind of pulling on some of your experience in other

sports and kind of seeing ups and downs, can you give us any kind of sense in terms of the ins and outs of how, you know, how leagues operate, how tours operate, fan interests, TV contracts, buzz in general? Like, do you get the sense, the same sense that I'm getting that the pro golf is doing some pretty serious damage to fan sentiment and what it's like trying to make a journey back from that, right? I mean, we've seen instances with the baseball strike in the mid nineties of ratings tanking after that.

And I have the opinion that this kind of three years running now, crater that you're putting in the side of pro golf is, could have some long, long tails that we don't really fully understand the depths of just yet. And you've been in golf a long time and sports a long time. I'm just curious your perspective on that. Well, first off, I don't think it's as dire as maybe you fear it's going to be.

I really don't. Now, week in and week out, we're gonna be in Charlotte this week. They'll have a fabulous tournament, the reaction in Charlotte. I know Charlotte's my hometown. When I was born, my family's from there. They will be supporting this event like they have since it started in 2003. More specifically, what do you think is the damage is being done to the game that may be irretrievable? This is anecdotal, but for me, I go back to like, all right, if I grew up in Dublin, Ohio, if I didn't have the Memorial

tournament five minutes from my house, you know, if it wasn't the elite field that it was, I don't know if I wouldn't be sitting here maybe with you right here right now, right? That tournament had a huge impact on my golf fandom, getting to watch the pros come every year, like the excitement level. And again, that's not to say like PJ Tour events are going away, but like just if general interest is not there, if there's a fringe casual golfer

young golfer out there, that is not intrigued by what's going on on the PJ tour, they may not make it a point to go visit their local tournament, they may not tune in on Sundays, they may not become a golf fan for life that I've become just through, you know, again, talking about this early level of investment. It's lasted for me, with me for a long time. And I'm just, I get the sense that if, you know, granted golf away from pro golf is thriving right now, but I do wonder about, you know, that top funnel.

I think pro golf does get people into playing the game of golf. And if the sentiment continues on a negative trajectory, I mean, nobody, nobody, question for you is going to be what do you think is going to happen? But nobody seems to have an answer. I know we're all just wandering in this purgatory. I still believe golf is going to be fine. I understand it's, you know, take the West Coast this year, which usually gives us a little momentum going into the year. We have a pretty good foothold on events on the West Coast with San Diego, Pebble, LA. We didn't have Phoenix this year because it was a Super Bowl year for us and NBC got to broadcast it. You think about

some years in the past on the West coast, you were getting Phil and Tiger winning at least two of those. You know, you could pretty much bank on one of them was going to win San Diego, one of them was going to win Palo Palo Palo five times. Phil might win LA, you know, and there was all positive energy. Well, this year, here we are in early May, and I'm thinking back to some of the leaderboards and the champions we had, there was not a great familiarity with them. And maybe a lot of this has to do with the fact that we have created signature events

and non-signature events. But Torrey Pines, which I called from inside the stadium at the AFC Championship game in Baltimore, Matthew Pavan, take nothing away from him. That was a great performance and he's played well. He's shown he has real game, but there was no familiarity with him. Didn't create buzz.

Didn't create buzz. Sunday at Pebble Beach is a washout. That didn't help. That's the week between the AFC-NFC Championship game weekend and the Super Bowl. Golf is the thing. That's where San Diego used to reside. It was always the highest rated regular season golf event of the year because you're in the dead of winter and usually had a star-studded field. In this case, we had guys that were up there. We had Oberg. We had had of course, Wyndham Clark, who shot 60 on Saturday.

We get a chance to get three, it's actually was a three and a half hour show, three to six 30 Eastern. They got washed out, got nothing, no buzz, nothing. Hideki won the next week in LA. It felt good, you know, Hideki put on a brilliant performance there coming in. But I just think that we didn't get that momentum building start to the year. I don't see it now. I was at Hilton

Head. We took the month of March off for college basketball on our network. Did the Masters feel like? I know that's not on the, you're separating those, but the Masters feel like golf was really down? Not at all. Did Hilton Head feel like golf was really down? Support locally, it was a signature event, felt gigantic. Charlotte will feel that way. Your tournament, you grew up watching. Memorial, it'll feel like the Memorial tournament. I can't speak to everything else, but I think the doom and gloom is, is off. I know we're all tired, but golf is not in danger of turning into tennis here anytime soon.

That's good to hear your perspective on that. And honestly, Scotty's press conference he did at the players this year of like, you know, he kind of got a little pent up and just felt like, Hey, you guys are directing all this, all this angst at us. It's like, look at the guys who left. Like that's, we're doing the best we can here on the PGA tour to keep guys entertained and, and, and, and, you know, put on a good product. And that was a good pump up speech that I got from, you know, that we all got from Scotty. I felt of like, all right, yeah, you know what? You're right. You're right on this. But I do think there was something really to the fact that I'm not trying to hide from the fact that there's been this disruption in the game with guys leaving for live.

But I do think that the West Coast, we didn't have the big burst of star power and great dramatic events happening that we normally do. I've been doing the West Coast golf swing for almost 40 years and there's never been one like this one. 2023 was amazing. I mean that was an incredible run. You know, that's what you're kind of counting on that, the kind of boost things and get the ball rolling up into the Masters and everything.

I didn't even mention, by the way, Chris, is that again, nothing to do with NBC. They broadcast the event this year, but the Waste Management, Phoenix Open, you know, they had their issues there. You know, again, it was more negative energy coming off of that term, which was usually a crazy, zany celebration of golf in its own unique way. Every stop along the way didn't feel like what we're used to.

I just think that hopefully we'll come around in 25 and a lot of this will be resolved. We'll get off to a fast start on the West Coast golf swing and then people will be saying, look at the ratings. They're up 20%. What happened in one year? That's what's going to happen. I really believe. I hope so. That's the thing is I feel like my rooting interests in all of this are for buzz for

interest because I think that serves everyone. Serves me, it serves you, it serves the a golf fan it just serves the sport in general and that's that's that's where I get a little a little bummed at times on where things are trending and no real path to resolution but next week is the PGA championship going back to Valhalla you've called two PGA's have you called there you didn't call three you called 96 as well okay I couldn't I've been around a long time I know I couldn't quite tell I was trying to find highlights of that I couldn't. I've been around a long time. I know I couldn't quite tell I was trying to find highlights of that I couldn't quite tell that I was there. In fact, that was an interesting story to that.

That's where Mark Brooks beat Kenny Perry in a playoff. They played 18. Of course, by the time we came back in 2000, it was now a three hole aggregate. In 96. It was sudden death. Kenny Perry finished a great round, a Kentuckian. He's leading the tournament. Mark Brooks is still out on the course. I'm sitting with Ken Venturi in the 18th hour. After Kenny signed his card, he came into the booth and joined us, put a head start

on. You remember this? We just did a deep dive into this and I couldn't believe that this all happened. Oh, and there were a lot of people that laid the blame at us that we kept Kenny too long. But we did offer, I love Kenny Perry. We're doing an Alzheimer's charity event together coming up later this year. It's very personal for both of us.

But Kenny was free to leave and go warm up and do whatever. But he decided he wanted to watch the finish and he was sitting in the tower when Brooksy tied him on the 72nd hole and then they went out and played the hole again, the 18th par 5 up the hill, Kenny made 6 and Brooksy won a major championship. So that was, that had a lot of drama. Four years later, we're back again and the 2000 PGA, I think if you really sit down and said, let me watch, submit to me the best major championships you ever saw. That would be top five, definitely top 10, most riveting final rounds ever.

Bob May, total David and Goliath story here. He and Tiger, the extra holes, and Tiger beat him by one in the playoff. But Tiger first had a hole, a putt on the 72nd hole that I never, it felt like it took an hour to get there. It was about an eight footer and it wiggled right and left and then boom, found the cup to force the playoff. But Bob May, God bless him, I, I, you know, I've run across him a few times

through the years and he was just so from out of nowhere at that time, even though he had a stellar junior golf career in the Los Angeles area and was trained by Eddie Marantz. Eddie was his boyhood coach and tutor that long time recently passed away golf emeritus at Bel Air Country Club. So a story, the PGA, I mean, we're all just blown away by what we watched, the back and forth. I think they

both shot 66 and then they go to the playoff. The next day, I head to the Louisville airport and going to hop on a Delta flight to Atlanta, I think. And I'm sitting in the gate area and I look over and there's Bob May. He's sitting in the Louisville airport. Not one person, evidently, at least in my estimation, had reckoned. I got people come and say, hey, Jim, what a broadcast, what a tournament. There's the, you know, the co-star of this epic movie.

You know, he just fell right back into anonymity. And I'm just going to sound terrible to say, but you know, I boarded, got in my first class seat. Yeah. Let's see where this is going. I watched, I watched Bob walk by me heading me heading toward coach and I looked over my shoulder. He was sitting in a middle seat and like wrote 12. And I thought the guy was one Miss Tiger Woods putt away from flying private maybe the rest

of his life. Okay. But obviously it's not disrespect to Bob. I love Bob May, but what incredible, he didn't cave for one second. He battled and I mean, Tiger was blowing it past him, 70, 80 yards on holes and he still shot 66. And the other thing I remember about that playoff

was the first playoff holes at 16. And that's the one where Tiger walked it in. It was, yeah, you can't, I think it was the greatest call of Gary McCord's career. Gary was obviously eyeballing it, not watching on the monitor, but we're watching the ball. We didn't see this until you saw the replay. But Gary got very excited.

Oh, he's walking this one in, he's walking right after it. And of course the ball right in the center of the cup. So he had just in the moment, one of his greatest of many great calls. It's an incredible, I remember where I was watching that. We were a huddle around a TV at a golf team party, I think kicking off my freshman year of high school, I think it was. And I mean, just the whole, everybody there, I mean, the parents, kids, everyone was just around a TV screaming, going nuts. If you

rewatch that one too, Tiger has a 15 foot par putt on the 15th hole. And Bob May has maybe a six foot birdie putt. May had stuffed it in there and Tiger ran his putt way past. Tiger makes the comebacker and May misses the short putt or else that could have gone very, very, very differently. That's kind of a forgotten moment. Everybody remembers the punts on 18, but that was a big moment. And we've done a complete recap of that tournament. I think during COVID those weeks were golf, golf was off the no live sports were

on the air and I was from this computer, I was hosting shows on Saturday and Sunday, but this computer was at that time in my home in Pebble Beach instead of here where I'm right now in Nashville. Still have my home in Pebble, but I was looking into this camera and interviewing players that were in tournaments as we did these lookbacks just to fill programming. And we look back at that tournament. We didn't get to 90, I'm sorry, 2014, which again, was its own special dramatic, never to be forgotten kind of event. I just rewatched the finish there of 2014 this morning. It is madness, man. It is. And you guys did an amazing job capturing the

drama, the moment, the urgency, the light, how dark it actually was. You shut the, you know, the iris, yeah, the iris is open. Then you showed what it would look like without it. I mean, it was, it was madness. I'm sure there'll be plenty of reliving that, leading up to the next one. Well, it's funny. The, the, the 96, of course they were played in August, but the 96 and 2014 PGA's were both racing against a big thunderstorm coming in. Because when Brooksy beat Kenny, I don't think they could have gone another hole. They actually went down to the green.

We'd signed off the air and Jim Autry was the head of the PGA and they were trying to conduct a really pulled up version of the Wanamaker Trophy presentation. We'd done the interview on the air, but all of a sudden people running for the exits and man like hailstorm came in. And then Rory's birdie at 18 to close it out was- The par actually. He had a two putt par on to get or worries finish in 2014 was against darkness a race against that and a storm as well so hopefully storm free that's what we hope for I know there's been a lot of changes at

Dalhalla since the last time we were there I know the new ownership group they're very excited about presented again to the world. It's given us great drama. It's not my favorite style of golf architecture, but it's got great stadium hills and seating in the crowd atmosphere. From what I remember, really shines through in terms of creating a major championship environment. So I'm very much looking forward to that. Well, look at the storylines we have next week.

Sally, could Rory turn around and finally break the major drought at the place where he won his last one? Is Koepka going to come on and win a fourth Wanamaker trophy? Scottie with fatherhood. Scottie, what kind of shape is Scottie going to be in? We're assuming the baby's arriving between now and Thursday the 16th. What is he gonna have rest? Is he gonna be sharp?

You got Jordan, which is people forget. Maybe this is the ideal scenario for Jordan to finally find his game. He's missed four of his last six cuts. Maybe he comes in and becomes the sixth to ever reach the really promised land of going off the holy land of the career Grand Slam. Got Rom coming back into the picture after all that.

Bryce and it seems like it should be a great fit for Bryce and too. I mean, there's a lot to be excited about for next week, that's for sure. But I got a bunch of grab bag questions for you here. Hopefully a little bit more somewhat more lighthearted than some of the stuff we've discussed today, but you've been traveling to a lot of the same golf cities for a lot of years. I want to hear your go-to dinner spots. When I named some of the cities that you guys drop in on, I think I have an idea on the first answer, Fort Worth, Texas.

Well, I always have a Friday night dinner there. So now I'm going to see some people at Del Frisco's and then I go to the Lonesome Dove and loves Lonesome Dove. So those are always kind of set in stone. Dinner on Friday night is one that I have with a couple of colleagues of mine, Tommy Spencer and Kevin McHale. We celebrate our birthdays and it's on that Friday night. And I'm already looking toward the 24th and that dinner and then the Saturday night at Tim Love's Lonesome Dove.

Well, if you remember, you were nice enough to invite me along to one of those Del Fresco nights a couple years ago, Cody and I enjoyed you and I was... We had a great time. I was stunned that you ran into a group of Canadians there that you'd seen at that night at the restaurant for like 11 straight years. And of course, too. I've shown them the tower. They come down every year. It's a group of guys. This is their one guy trip they make every year. They fly down to DFW and they go to the colonial tournament

and they're just, they're just fantastic. And I, you know, you get to certain people, you know, you're going to see at some of these stops. That's ongoing. Well, that's- Yeah, speaking of Canadians, you're going to ask me about the RBC Canadian because we're going back there. It moves around, but yeah, where you can tell me about your Canadian spots, yeah. Well, this year we're going to be in Hamilton, which is a long way from Toronto, but I do have a place down in the Yorkshire, Yorkville, Yorkville district.

And I believe it's called Opus. It's a special place. But there's a little steakhouse called Shakespeare next to our hotel in Hamilton, where of course we were already one a couple years ago. By the way, you're touching on my favorite part of living on the road. Where am I gonna to eat dinner?

There's no high jinks in my life. I'm not hanging out late at night at some nightclub, but I do like to have nice dinner. So go ahead, continue on. Dublin, Ohio. Oh, two cheese. Two cheese, for sure. That's my parents' favorite spot. Charlotte, where are you going to eat? Two for two, three for three. Maybe one night in the locker room at the club because Nicholas Larocca, the GM there might be the absolute best in the nation. Um, they put on a great, a great week.

You can, you don't have to, if you want to skip this one, cause you're going to be there this week and you don't want to be tracked down Charlotte, North Carolina. Toscano. Okay. Italian restaurant. It's really good. I won't tell you which night I'm going to be there, but I will be there. I will say this too. Bring me back to Charlotte later on because I don't want to kill your momentum because we have something else we need to talk about

that's going to happen there this week. I got just a few more Cromwell, Connecticut travelers for those that don't know. Yeah. You know what? We kind of mix it up there. We really do. Yeah. It's not a set place. Got a lot of good spots there. Greensboro, North Carolina. We have a dinner at the club every year at Sedgefield one night with Bobby Long, who is an amazing guy that's really resurrected, saved with Mark Brazel, that tournament. So that one's my favorite night. And then I'm a little bit of a free agent on Saturday night. Got it.

There's a place called, that used to be Trichinian's favorite place, Moons ago, and it's still there. I went there two years ago. It was like, I didn't know you guys were still open. A family runs it, Cafe Pasta. Now that doesn't sound like, wow, it sounds a little cheesy in the name, but it's excellent. San Diego. You know, I haven't been to San Diego. Now that they moved the date, I go to Pompel Moose.

Pompel Moose when I'm there. Okay. Okay. Jeffrey Strauss is the chef and the owner. It's over there next to the racetrack. That's quite an experience. It'd be a lot of people to know exactly what I'm talking about there. But that tournament, unfortunately, falls on the week of the AFC title game. I've pulled it now three or four years in a row from a football

stadium on the opposite coast. So crazy. Last one is Hildenhead. There's a list there. I got to check the list. Coast, which is at the beach club. Charlie's, which is great, right there at the lighthouse on the waterfront. CQ's, these are all creature of habit things that I like to do. I have certain things to do in certain cities. Hilton had the big thing with my kids is we have the annual showdown with Miniature Golf at Pirates Island. They ran some video on our broadcast this year. I didn't know we were going to do it.

Saw Hithikawa having a charity day out at the miniature golf course and raised a lot of money for junior golf and filth and head. I got so darn excited. I'd already been there on Saturday morning at 10 o'clock when they opened and won the belt this year. So I was really stoked about that. What were you going to say about Charlotte you wanted me to come back to?

Well, this week on Thursday night, we're going to have the funeral for Usti. So yeah, it's going to be a very touching night for all of us who love the great man. He just passed away last Thursday. He was a beloved colleague and friend, that's for sure. A gentle giant if there ever was one. Six foot six, towering presence, but just the biggest teddy bear you'd ever want to meet in your life. And just vastly underrated for what he did as a player.

I mean, Solly, this guy won six singles matches in Ryder Cup play, won four Order of Merits. He came over and tried to play the PGA Tour, didn't have the same success over here, won the Canadian one year in 81 or 82. But we loved him. And his last time before stricken with Alzheimer's, and he actually was at this point in his life starting

to show signs that something was amiss was Valhalla. So we go to Valhalla next week. It's the last major he ever called in August of 2014. So we got a lot of the old crew coming back for this one to pay our respects to Peter, to Usty, be there and shower some love and celebrate what he meant to us. He was a soundtrack of a lot of memories for me as a kid, that's for sure. Yeah, to 17, all those years you were growing up,

you know, so prepared, so exquisitely prepared. It just had a very nice warmth about him, a little nervous kind of chuckle before he would say things, oh, that's for double bogey. He was just so kind, loved him dearly. We tried to keep in touch with him all these years as he was in the steady decline with that insidious disease. We miss him. But we may need to do a separate episode at some point on just just title it Jim Nance stories because I honestly was feeling a lot of pressure preparing for this trying to get the best stories I could out of you because you've got them all you've got them all but I didn't

heard this one until today when I did a little research but tell me about playing golf with Sean Connery where that was and what happened there? It was 1986 or 7 and it was the week of the AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am. And I played Cypress Point for the first time the day before with Frank Cherkenny and Ken Venturi. And no one would believe it if they saw me play now. But on that first time I ever laid eyes on Cypress Point, I birdie five of the first eight holes. I was 26 years old. I'm 65 next Friday, the week of the PGA. So long time ago. And obviously I've let my

game deteriorate. I don't put enough hours into it. I'm a dad, so, and I'm traveling all the time. Anyway, I had a good first visit to Cyprus. Made six birdies in all, but still shot 77, by the way. So- I knew when you led with that, it wasn't going to be a crazy score. I knew how to blow up with the best of them. Believe me, the wheels come off, they would come off. But that night at dinner, I'm out to dinner

with Frank and his wife, Ken Venturi and his wife, Vic DeMone, who's a famous singer of yesteryear, and his lady friend at the time, Diane Carroll, and Steve Nguyen and his wife at the lodge. The night gets to be a little bit long. There's been a few bottles of wine consumed. I mean, I'm a young guy just kind of watching and listening. And Trekinian was supposed to play golf the next morning at Cypress. He pulled up from the table when it was the end of the night and says,

I'm not going to go play in the morning. Son, go over to Cypress, introduce yourself to Jim Langley. He's the pro. And tell him you're playing for me. I said, yes, sir, what time? He said, get there by 7.30. So I walked into the shop and introduced myself to Jim Langley, who would be a huge part of my life, a saintly man who was 35 years the head professional at Cypress Point, absolutely beloved. And he says, oh, OK, fine. He says, well, you're playing with the group that's

on the tea already. Number one, go over and introduce yourself. Said you're playing with Floyd Sageley, who was a friend of Pat's from Arkansas, Howard Keele, who was a famous Broadway actor and was starred on the show Dallas and Sean Connery. Well, damn, I could, I damn you're passed out. You're 26 years old. I love James Bond. I love Sean Connery. I knew he was going to be in the field that week. I didn't know I was going to actually get the lottery ticket to be in his group. So we played that day at Cypress. And I tried to harness all my boyhood, admiration, adulation for the great man who carried, by the way, his own bag. I've never seen anybody do that again when caddies are

available. We had great caddies, great caddies at Cyprus to this day, but he carried his own, a man's man, he carried his own bag. So we get to the seventh hole. He's made five, I've made six, whatever. Again, I could have, I could play decently back then. And I've never said anything to him about James Bond. But it was bubbling. It was bubbling. And he looks when we get on the 17, he says, who has the honor and I said you do mr. bond you do sir and he looked at me like what the hell and I said oh boy I said well it's the seventh hole sir it should be very kind to you gave me one of those looks you know he was playing a beautiful round of golf probably two or three over at this point through six. He rope hooks a shot up onto the sand dune left of the green. I mean, I obviously had rattled the great actor and I'm beating myself up for playing my hand.

And I went up to inspect the lie and it was grim. It was buried and there was a big number coming at least I thought somehow he gouged it out of the out of the dunes and it got on the back of the green pin was on the front, but he still hasn't said anything to me. I think I've broken his concentration. Anyway, I'm standing there thinking please do something great. He knocks the putt in the hole from 40, 45 feet for a par.

And on the way to retrieve it, he stops about halfway and he looks at me and says, you were right, number seven. So at that point, we were friends. All was good. Until? Well, until the, oh, you did your homework. So now the round ends and he needs a ride back to the lodge. So does Mr. Keele.

And I happen to have a big, your Cadillac used to make these motorboat size cars, DeVilles, Cadillac, Seville, whatever. I put all the bags in the trunk. I'm going to now drive these guys, these famous actors, from Pebble, from Cyprus, to the lodge. It's about a mile and a half at the most. But it's windy, and I'm already giving myself

the little internal talk, just keep it on the road. You know,, stupid. And so maybe lost in all that train of thought when I see that the back door behind me, the passenger door behind the driver's seat is open, so I give it a good shove to look back and Connery, Bond, had his left foot still planted on the pavement. I hadn't seen that. He wasn't in the car all the way. And I shoved the door right up against that tender spot on the shin

between the ankle and the knee. And he got out of the car and he was like trying to walk. Oh, God, I'm going to have to withdraw from the tournament. I actually tore the trouser. I could see a tear and there was blood. That's not really a bloody area, but there was blood seeping through his trouser. So I couldn't apologize enough, but he still accepted a ride with me. And I guess, showing bond-like powers of recovery, we got back to the lodge and he invited us for lunch.

What is now the bench? Would you guys like to join us for lunch? We sat on a sun-splashed afternoon and he was very inquisitive about my young career at this point, nine, eight months at CBS. And he said, have you ever played Valorama? And I said, no, but I've heard about it. He said, that's my home course.

He said, you must come and play it. Are you ever on the Costa del Sol? I actually had been just recently for CBS to that part of the world, to cover the World Swimming and Diving Championships. So I actually knew the area, Marbella and all of that. This is pre-cell phone, Sully. I said, how on earth would I find you?

He says, I'm in the phone book, Jim. You can just look me up. I'm in the phone book under Connery, Sean Connery. There is no embellishment to that story. That's a great story. So I ever did anything in my life, I think of all the villains from the Bond movies that he had to have dealt with Goldfinger, Blofeld and all these guys. I might have been the only one who ever bloodied James Bond.

In the Cypress Boyd parking lot. In Cypress Boyd parking lot. And he did not have to pull out of the tournament. He played. That's fantastic. All right, well, we do got to let you go. I know you keep a busy schedule. We greatly appreciate you spending another hour with us

telling some stories and appreciate the warm welcome you've given me and the other guys as well over the last several years. Enjoyed it, probably. Great getting to know you and get a lot of really cool experiences through your eyes as well. You guys have been great for the game. You know, your love and passion for the game is something that I relate to and obviously all your millions of followers relate to as well.

So thanks for having me on and I hope it's not another four years. Obviously I'll see you many times before that, but I look forward to another chance. We can make it an annual thing. That would be a great thing for all of us. Thanks so much, Jim. Take care. Be the right club today. Johnny, that's better than most.

How about in? That is better than most. Better than most. That's better than most. That's better than most. That's better than most. That's better than most. That's better than most.

That's better than most. That's better than most. That's better than most. That's better than most. That's better than most. How about in? That is better than most. Better than most. Expect anything different for Fandel, you must be 21 or 18 or older in D.C. and President select states. Fandel is offering online sports wagering in Kansas under an agreement with Kansas Star Casino LLC. Gambling problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit Fandl.com slash RG in Colorado, DC, Iowa, Michigan, New Jersey, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Kentucky, Louisiana,

Kentucky, Tennessee, Virginia, and Vermont. Call 1-800-NEXTSTEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 in Arizona, 1-888-789-7777, or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut, 1-800-9 with it in Indiana, 1-800-522-4700, or visit ksgamblinghelp.com in Kansas, 1-877-770-STOP in Louisiana, visit mdgamblinghelp.org, in Maryland, visit 1-800-GAMBLER.NET in West Virginia, or call 1-800-522-4700 in Wyoming. Hope is here, visit gamblinghelplinema.org in Maryland. Visit 1-800-GAMBLER.NET in West Virginia or call 1-800-522-4700 in Wyoming.

Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplineMA.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY in New York. Nailed it. Thanks for tuning in.