No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - 845 - Stephan Jaeger

Episode Date: May 30, 2024

Stephan Jaeger returns to the pod to discuss his first win on the PGA Tour as he beat Scottie Scheffler at the Houston Open in late March. We also cover his distance gains off the tee and overcoming driver issues earlier in his career, embracing meditation practices, his first Masters appearance and more. If you enjoyed this episode, consider joining The Nest: No Laying Up’s community of avid golfers. Nest members help us maintain our light commercial interruptions (3 minutes of ads per 90 minutes of content) and receive access to exclusive content, discounts in the pro shop, and an annual member gift. It’s a $90 annual membership, and you can sign up or learn more at nolayingup.com/join Support our partners: Precision Pro Golf - Father's Day Sale - $30 off all rangefinders fanduel.com/nlu  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Be the right club. Be the right club today. That's better than most. How about in? That is better than most. Better than most! Expect anything different? better than most. Expect anything different. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No Laying Up podcast. Solly here got an interview coming shortly with Steven Yeager, recent winner out on the PGA Tour. Steven's on the podcast, I think it was six years ago now, episode 150. We get into a little bit

more of his background and whatnot in that episode. we did not spend a lot of time on that. Uh, for those of you not familiar, Steven is, uh, of German descent. He lives in Tennessee, went to school, uh, there in Tennessee. And, uh, if you're confused on the accent, that's why I'm explaining this, right? He is a bit of a German yet also Tennessee accent mix in there. I love it. Great dude. Really happy for his success. He's had incredible success. We talk about where that's coming from, what he's done to add distance to his game, and how he's made himself into a

top 20 in the FedEx Cup in PGA Tour. Pretty remarkable. We are proud to say Season 9 of Tora Sauce and this podcast are presented by our longtime partners at Precision Pro Golf. They recently launched the Titan Elite. It is the new gold standard for golf range finders. The Titan Elite stands out with its incredible build, quality, durability, thanks to its aluminum shell and IP67 dust and waterproof rating. Plus, you can connect the Titan Elite to the Precision Pro app and take advantage of groundbreaking features like GPS front, center, and back of green yardages, as well as Find My Titan. It alerts you if you left your range finder behind. I know everyone listening to this has done that at some point. Of course, it has the same accuracy and speed that

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and save $30 on your next rangefinder. Don't forget to grab one for your dad as well. Again, PrecisionProGolf.com. Let's get to the pod. All right, I need you to tell me, if you see Scottie Scheffler with a cup of coffee, like do you smack it out of his hands and do you tell him that coffee is for closers? Like do you let him know that you run things around here?

You know, it's funny because I obviously saw him at the Masters a couple weeks after that tournament, right? And we play, I want to say we played together, I want to say we played together at RBC on Saturday, I think. And he actually played pretty good. He beat me by like four. I think he shot eight under and I shot four under. And I was like, hey, I'm pretty happy with it, right? But I remember telling Ted, I was like, hey, man, I guess the Masters was a decent consolation rise to losing to me in Houston.

He just kind of chuckled. He ended up winning the RBC as well. I was like, Jesus, this guy is unbeatable at the moment. So it's a pretty impressive run he's been on, honestly. I'd say, yeah. He even, I remember watching last week at Fort Worth, shot two over the first round. I was like, oh my God, is he gonna miss a cut?

What? Sure enough, has a damn chance to win the tournament on Sunday. I'm like, this guy is just relentless, right? I mean, it's pretty impressive. I mean, I obviously didn't play on tour when Tiger was out here and making that kind of look easy in a sense, right?

But I'm sure glad he missed that putt, to be honest with you. It made my life a lot easier. And obviously getting in the big events and all that kind of stuff, getting my first W was awesome. So I appreciate that five-footer he missed. And I wish him all the best of luck for the rest of the year because I don't care. He missed that one. So I'm pretty happy without him. I doubt I wonder if he even remembers that he missed that one. But well, I promise we'll talk

a little bit about you as well. But just pausing on the Scotty thing. We seem, are we justified in how much we've been freaking out about what's been happening lately? I mean, it's your appear of his, you're competing against them. Like this is, this is as absurd as we're making it out to be in the media, isn't it? I think, you know, I just think that that dominance that you might've seen like in the Byron Nelson days and the old days, right? I feel like, you know,

I don't wanna step on anybody's toes here, but I feel like the pool of great players was smaller back then. Even in Haiga's area, I feel like the pool of great players was smaller back then. Even in Haiga's area I feel like you know there was maybe a little less that that couldn't compete at that point like early when Tiger came out. I feel like every single guy I meet, Semgiti's guys got a college dude and they're unbelievable. I played practice round with, I remember playing a practice round with Colin in 2000, when did he come out on tour, in 2017 or 18 or 19? I can't

remember. 19. I played a practice round at the 3M. I remember that because him and Wolf were in a playoff or like got him the last hole or whatever. And I was like, this kid's been pretty good right here. And sure enough, like got him the last hole, whatever. And I was like, this kid's been pretty good right here. And sure enough, like finished second the first week, wins Barracuda, you know, Ludwig Ebert, like he comes out screaming, plays on the Ryder Cup team. I mean, these kids are so incredibly good and prepared to play on tour life.

Like I was not prepared. Like I was barely coming by with driving to Gainesville, Georgia to play the Hooters event at the Chasta. Like that, like I could find a day's end and that's about it, right? Like I was not prepared for that. So that learning curve for me was always a lot longer, but these guys, like the colleges do such a good job now to

You know get these guys ready like hey you have to have a trainer you have to have a physio you have to have a Coach you have to have a mental coach like all that stuff was You know, I don't know if it was available I'm sure it was but I feel like now it's just like holy like this is this is new level so it's just like, holy, like this is, this is new level. So kind of going back to your question, I feel like Scotty doing that with all that talent, all that, you know, it's just impressive. Like anytime I've played with him a bunch this year and it's just, he never, like it's so incredibly boring in the best possible way, like the best possible way. When I say boring, like he never misses an iron shot. Like he never misses in the wrong side ever. He chips

it great. You know, his putters, yeah, it's fine. God, thank God his putter is not amazing. We'd never win a tournament. That's insane. He's the best driver, best iron player and best chipper. Like it's just insane. Like, don't give him the putting to like, we don't need that. Right. So but so in the final round of Houston, are you like, again, this is a different level, you've played a lot of top town, but this is a different level run, regardless of the sustainability of it all, like it's a different level run.

Like, how are you how do you stay in your own process of like, you know, we can, I want to we're're going to talk about your kind of career path and everything. But in this moment, like how am I going to beat that guy today? Plus a bunch of other people up on that leaderboard, knowing exactly how you're describing this guy in a very, which is the honor of Palmer. You might as well give him that tournament every year. But he ended up obviously winning the players as well coming into there. So, you know, I've said this a lot in interviews after the round. I felt like he's such a good dude to play with. You kind of forget that you're playing with by far the best player in the world at the moment.

Like, you know, it's, he's worlds apart from everybody else. I mean, you see that in the, you know, in the world rankings, you can see that in FedEx Cup. I mean, he is, I think his lead ahead of, I don't know who's second, that's in Xander now. It's like 1700 points or something like that. It's more than like from second to last place on tour or something. It's insane. But you know, you just like I really enjoy playing with him. He's super cordial, like he'll talk to you. He'll talk about anything. Obviously, they just had a baby. So and we have a one and a half year old. So you know, I just kind of gave him the rundown on, you know, like, this is what is about to happen in your life, right?

And he's just a dude, right? Like, he's so easy to talk to. He's so awesome to play with. And there's not the, you know, that intimidation factor or the fear factor. I felt like I didn't have that. Those guys talked about when Tiger was playing, he was just like, he wouldn't even talk to you just go straight and I could see how that's intimidating and and kind of like hey you know like this is this is kind of scary so you know in any tournament you try to play your own game you try to you know um focus on what you can do and you know I knew that if I could just on that golf course that back nine there's I mean there is just trouble everywhere right So I just try to give myself as many birdie looks as I possibly could and I actually did a good job with that I felt like You know if I go through I had a good birdie look on 10

11s kind of like a par hole 12. I think I made bird now I made part of it all person in the back nine But like the only like trouble I got in was on 13 a little short one and I may ended up making like a 20 20 footer of a par but the rest actually had pretty good birdie looks and I I just didn't make any putts I think the only bad putt that hit it was on 17 and it just kind of slipped by and but yeah I just try to kind of stay you know like just keep trying to hit greens you know those greens are kind of crazy. So being able to have putts at the Fiberty was a big deal.

So you said something afterward, believe your quote was you, you had to change a few things that weren't a great fit for the PGA tour. And for those that aren't familiar, you had incredible corn fairy tour career. You've won six times on the corn fairy tour. You've been, remind me how many times you've gone to the PGA tour and back to the corn fairy twice. Is that happened? You've been my first year on tour was 17 and then I lost my car that next year. I actually got it back in finals. That was back in the

day when I had finals. So I actually kind of I never really got back to the one fair. I just played another year on tour. So 1718 1819 and then I lost played another year on tour. So 17, 18, 18, 19, and then I lost my card again on 19, didn't get it back in finals, ended up playing the COVID year, which just ended up almost being two seasons on the corn fair. And then got back out here and I guess it had been 2021, maybe the fall of 2020. And yeah, I obviously had a great career or great long season out on the corn fairy tour, won a couple of times and won the money list. But I felt like that 2021 early in the season, I kind of ran in the same stuff that I did in the years past,

right? Like you've got to drive it better on tour, you can do on a corn fairy. It's just a fact. you've got to drive it better on tour you can do on a corn ferry it's just a fact. I couldn't really get away with that a little bit on the PGA tour so I kind of looked at my stats and I was like hey you're kind of like bottom of the list driving and I was not very long I you know I wasn't hit a lot of fairways so I was like is it which one was easier right is it easier to to gain your distance or is it easier to hit 75% of your fairways? And I felt like, hey, you know what? Let's just gain a bunch of distance and see where this takes us.

Not thinking honestly, between me and you, I didn't think it was gonna turn out that way. You know, like I just started, and the whole process was a long, obviously it was a long deal, but it ended up making me less anxious, more free. And I was hitting a 25 yard target. I mean, for those that don't know, you made a massive leap in distance, right? Yeah.

You were ball speed. It was pretty big. Yeah. Ball speed in 2018 on the PGA tour was 169 average. Now you're up to 178 average, which again, average why, like you're easily capable of 182, 183 in tournaments if you're averaging 178, for those who don't know, like it's just really hard to maintain a really high average and that's a high average on the PGA Tour

and you're not a big guy. That was not your MO for any of your professional golf career, like, and I guess what I find unique about your story is we, I was catting in the same group as you, you were playing on a Monday qualifier. I think it was fall of 2018. Who were you catting for? Justin Tuber.

That's right. For Sea Island. And so like, take away, I've played a ton of golf, Tuber, played a ton of golf with a lot of the guys in Jackson. Like I would just say, like, you just end up in this bucket of players where when you get in it, you can look around and be like, holy crap, there are so many players around my level right now. How do you bust out of this? On the other side of the coin, there's I don't know how many tales there are out there about the perils of chasing distance. It can wreck

everything. It can ruin things. There's a lot of horror stories out there, right? So did you, I mean, in all of the years of your career, did you have that experience of looking around and saying like, all right, how am I gonna separate from this pack? What's it gonna be? This is worth the risk of if I do go backwards, it's worth the risk to get longer out on the program. I've had this conversation with a couple of my buddies recently actually, because I remember remember I remember Joel Damon he's

obviously a good friend of mine he I remember a couple years ago I think he was kind of chasing a little bit of distance to gaining a couple miles an hour but he was one of the straightest drivers of the game right like the guy was hitting over 70% every year so I wouldn't say that's maybe the best way. Like I don't know if I would have made that decision at that point. But but I was hitting your inaccurate and short 50% of my fail is at 285. Like you can't compete. So I was like, what? I was like, I can't hit it any more cricket. Like, why don't we just go far? Like, let's hit it far. And the fact like, I might not, you know, our average, you know, like it's still gonna hover around 60. If I'm around 60% of hit fail, that's great for me.

But, you know, like also mentally for me, that was a huge difference in how I felt about my driving. Like I would go up, you know, like also mentally for me, that was a huge difference in how I felt about my driving. Like I would go up, you know, I could get up to a hole that's, you know, let's call it honor palmer number two, or number three, I mean, like I could just, I know like, hey, I'm not going to be anxious about this hazard on left. Like I'm just going to try to hit as hard as I can and find it. And the more I did that in practice and the more my setup at home was amazing for that, I never even thought about it. But the more I did that, you know, I'd hit one, like two or three good ones in the

tournament. I was like, Oh, wait a minute. Like I can do this. So the confidence grew and my belief in like what I'm doing grew, the speeds are growing higher. You know, like if I did feel a little anxious, like I knew how to deal with that. Like I had a plan for that. So it's just, you know, and then once I got better at that, I was like, wait a minute, like my ceiling has just gotten exponentially higher, right? Like you said, like the cesspool of people that were on my level at my previous speed was huge.

I mean, it's everybody, right? Like unless you're the best putter in the world or whatever, you know, kind of just to find an extra, you know, extra gear in that end gave me huge confidence in being able to compete. That year I finished, it was my highest finish in the FedEx Cup, I finished 86 I think, or 81st or 91st or something like that. It was like low 90s I think.

94th, 21, 22. There you go, 94th. So I was like, hey, you know what? Kept my card, let's take deposits out of it. But I kept continuing to do it and continue to improve that part of my game. And now, two years later, I feel like I can rely on that a little bit more. Like now I'm excited to play golf courses that are hard, like Memorial next week. I'm super excited to play that place

because you've got to drive it into failure, you got to be long. So those are the two things that I've kind of worked myself towards. Got a little bit of a spark back in my game. Like, you know, if you continuously like back and forth and like, what am I doing? Like, I think I'm good enough, but why is it not working?

It's a miserable place to be in, right? Like that's, as a golfer, if you don't have the answers and you have no way to figuring out what's happening, it's bad. So for that to have worked out the way it did, I never would have dreamed it. And I'm really happy it did because now I have the opportunities to kind of,

I wouldn't say later parts of my career, but like, you know, the middle part, you know, the part that's most important, like I can really take advantage of that, work on every part of my game, knowing that, you know, I don't have to worry about a tee shot, you know what I'm saying? So it's a cool spot to be in. I'm really happy with it. Took a lot of hard work. I think people sometimes forget that. We skipped right, we were just like, oh yeah, now you hit it really far. We'll get to how you got there. Why didn't you do that before?

And that's one of the things I think is impressive. And you see it a lot of times on tour now. Xander has gained five or six miles an hour. Oh, he's been so fast this year. Yeah. I mean, he was always in the low 80s, but I mean, he's like 87, 88. Like that's another 10. Rory's trending upwards. Always going up. You know, like all these guys, now Rory always kind of.

He's always fast, but now he's getting faster and nobody like, people don't even notice it or realize it. It's just the numbers get up so quick. It's just a numbers game, right? Like once they came out with that strokes game and they told everybody at 320 in the rough or 290 in the fairway, you're better off in the rough. At 320.

Like, I mean, some golf courses, maybe not, but 90% of them you're better off because you hit four less clubs. Your ceiling goes up a little bit on that end and it kind of, it helps you, you know, gives you shorter clubs in, makes life a little easier and it's a lot more fun that way as well. No Lying Up is sponsored by FanDuel.

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See terms at sportsbook.fandual.com. Back to the pod. The distance is one thing, but you've talked a little bit about the anxiousness or things going on in your driving. Can you take, I mean, from what I understand, you were going through some pretty dark times with the driver, not just not hitting it far.

I believe, may have gotten a tip that at one point you were hitting drivers off the deck, off the tee, give you the best chance to put the ball in play. I mean, was it was it Y-word stuff? Are we allowed to say the Y-word on that and kind of? You know, I never felt the Y-word. I'll say it. I don't have I've never. And I might have mentioned it. I never felt the yip, honestly, but I think every problem that I think stems from that,

and there's a technical problem in there, right? Now, that technical problem leads to the, holy shit, like where is this, like what is this doing? Yeah, that's a problem, like what is this doing? So it's, there's, you know, there's like, there's a technical problem and then your body's like, oh, I can't play from there.

And then the more you do it and you're like, oh God, like what? So I actually played an entire, I wanna say I played an entire year. I might've been close to an entire year without teeing a driver up, ever. Really? Ever, and I'd tier three above, but it was just the funniest thing.

So I can't remember when this was. This must've been, this is in the early, it was like 2016, 15, 16. I was playing a little bit of Latin tour. I was playing some Web.com tour, which is the corn fair tour now And I'd always been a good driver off the deck guy. Like I'd always loved to hit it on part fives and stuff and

the guy I was working with at the time and He was like, why don't you just do a little like Scottish to you right like knock a little I was like I'll try it You know, that's I mean, I was so good at it. I was so good at it. So I remember playing PGA national where we played, used to be the Honda, the Cognizant class at now. And I played Q school there in 2000, I want to say 16.

Might've been 16 actually, yeah. We're 15 and I never tee the ball up. I mean, I would hit every, I mean, every've been 16 actually, yeah. Or 15, and I never teed a ball up. I mean, I would hit every, I mean, every tee ball, I would, cause it's perfect, it was Bermuda, right? Like I could get a little, little, it was like this high and I could hit the ground. And I would, I drove it so good. It was like, I had hit it to 16 there.

And I was like, you know, it was amazing. And on 18, you know, on that golf course, you've got like, you're cost phobic the entire time. But on 18, I looked at my guy, my coach was counting it to me at the time. I was like, she would tee this one up. And he's like, definitely not. This is gonna stay on the ground.

Anyway, so that kind of gave me, like, it just, it was to the point where it wouldn't be every drive, but it was like once or twice a turn, once or twice a round. If you blow once or twice a round, PJ, you're off the map. I mean, that's a professional golfer, buddy. That's two shots. I mean, that's four shots, really, if you think about it. So it was a really bad feeling, right? Like we practiced so hard and at home it was fine,

on the range it's fine. And you get on like, it wasn't even the tight holes. Honestly, the tight holes were easier. It was the ones that you're like, oh, you can't miss this one. And it just, it was kind of stuck underneath and it was, I mean. Off the plate. Right.

And it was a bad feeling, man. I was that's where I kind of was like, I don't know if I've got this. Like, I don't know if I can play with this. And then it got better in like 17, a little bit, but still have it every once in a while. And it was something I was, I wanna say it was something I struggled with for five years at least. And it just never,

like I would be okay for three, four, five tournaments. And then, yeah, I'd hit one, I'm like, right? Like it's the worst feeling in the world. I mean, literally worst feeling in the world. There's some dark times in golf wise, right? Like it just the worst feeling in the world. I mean, literally worst feeling in the world. There's some dark times in golf wise. Right. Like it just it was hard. But if I compare where I came from on that and how I feel over it now. I it's I would have to smile every time because it's it's it's I mean, it couldn't be more night and day.

It could not be more night and day. And you go watch that like the 18th hole or 72nd hole at Houston. It's like, I mean, I honestly didn't know all of this about your path. And I watched that drive and I was like, man, he sent that thing. Like that was full trust, like low arm tension, just full, like no inhibitions at all, there was no guide in that swing. It was like, I'm going to do this. I'm going to hit this. You make that replay, go for people, guide in that swing. It was like, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna hit this.

You make that replay, people go watch that clip now and be like, holy, hear that backstory and hear that. One new pizza tour of it. Yeah, you know, you asked the right guys, man. They've seen some stuff, right? Like, I don't know who you got this information from. I must have known some of my buddies that we used to play with, right?

And it wasn't pretty, right? I mean, and I was cutting lights out and chipping. I've always been a pretty good chipper. And I was missing 15 cuts on the corn fair tour because you just can't, like I said, you cannot play like that as a professional golfer. You just, you can't. I mean, you almost have to quit, right?

And to kind of persevere through that, I mean, I tried everything. I mean, you you almost have to quit, right? And to kind of persevere through that. I mean, I tried everything I tried. Psychologist, I tried name it tapping some baseball guys like how much you tried tapping on the hill. What is that? What is that? I mean, everything. What is it? What is it happening? It's like you tap something. I never I tried it one day. I was like, no, this ain't it buddy.

I mean, everything. Like you cannot imagine the things I've tried to fix that. And sure enough, trying to gain 10 miles an hour on ball speed sure did the trick. I have, I've read or heard that the one thing that has stuck with you though is meditation. Is that right? I mean, what is, I hear some people that rave

about meditation and the benefits of it. I'm wondering if that is. So that was actually, it's fairly recent, last probably two or three years thing. So maybe that was, maybe kind of subconsciously that it helped me. It's something, it started out of, like my wife and I used to do,

we either would take something away or add something for one month. So like, let's not eat dessert for a month or fried food for a month or alcohol for a month, or let's do, I don't know what we added. Like, added like, you to do a hundred push-ups every whatever day. I can't remember. But one month I was like, Hey, I'm going to meditate every day.

I was like, I don't know how to do it. I have no clue. This is years ago, but I'm going to try it. And through that, I really resonated with it. I loved it. Like it gave me kind of a quiet space in that psycho brain of mine that I had. Right? Like if you think about it, what, what, when you drive it like that, what's going on in your mind? I mean, it's, it's a million miles an hour, right? So it gave me a little bit of break from that. So starting with that, it kind

of got me into that space of what we'll call it self-healing or you know whatever it just kind of gave me a little bit more perspective I'm like hey this that I guess your awareness of what you're thinking about in your mind and a lot of kind of stuff and it was really interesting to me so like I kind of stuck with that and when you know I started reading books about it like you know all the kind of not the golf self-help like more of like the general idea of it and I mean I still do it it is rare that I'm I don't get at least one in a day

sometimes it's two one in the morning one at night I mean it's not it's not an hour it's not I'm not a monk but I do like 15 minutes in the morning and maybe 10 minutes at night, right? So it really, I love it. I've tried all of them, like different kinds and it just resonated with me and it helped me kind of this path of, I don't wanna call it enlightenment

because that's way above my pay grade, but like kind of just like, hey, there's a little bit more to you know life than trying to make as much money and play professional golf and win golf tournaments right that comes with it. And it's it was been a really really cool path and you know it's really helped me in that sense. And that could have been one of the reasons why I slowly got better with with my driving because I've maybe not put as much pressure on like, hey, this is the most important

driver life rather than like, hey, let's just do our best and see what happens. Wow. Yeah, that's that's impressive. I think I should definitely try meditation because I think about like, the clearest time I ever have thinking maybe once every three months, we'll go get a massage. And like that, I don't have my phone, my eyes are closed. And like, I'm like, I walk out of that. I'm like, I've just thought so clearly. And I just sit around looking at my phone and looking at computer screens the rest of the day, like it can't be I wonder which one's better for your brain. started actually in the beginning, there's a little bit of a learning curve because once you are quiet, you realize how much your mind actually talks. It's insane. I'm aware of it now, but I never used to be aware. I'm like, dude, shut up. It's insane. It still does it to me, but I obviously have the tools, you know, I guess, you know, the tools and stuff to be like, hey, wait a minute, this is actually not what I'm thinking.

This is not me, right? This is just my mind talking. But to be like absolutely in that zone in a sense is, it's, I love it. I really do. It could help a lot of people with, you know, like if you talk about anxieties and all that kind of stuff, it's, I think it's a healer of everything for sure.

So again, we're, we're about a half hour into this and we haven't gotten to how you gained the distance that you gained. Right. And it's, you know, I, I understand you've worked with Mike Carroll who runs fit for golf. Kind of just take us into your process of getting started and kind of what the physical journey and how it works with speed. How'd you do it? It's honestly, you will not,

I don't know if you know the answer or you probably do your research, you probably know what I did. It's really simple. I just hit 30 balls every two or three days with my driver that I play every round with as hard as I physically could. That's it.

That's it. I did not know that. Now you've got to like I you've got to know where your baseline is right like you have to write this stuff down you have to have a track not a track man per se but there's these little radars that you can get that are fairly inexpensive and you have to be able to track it right like I knew that I started at the first session I ever did I can't remember when this was this me and Mike talked about this last or two weeks ago but I mean I lashed at these guys I mean absolute full on as hard as I could, and I think my average was 168.9. I mean, I lashed at it, right? Like I went full board, like 100% at it.

And I couldn't, I, I couldn't get to 170. So after like a month or two, I was like, hey, what, you know, I got good to 73, 74, then I could get to 76, 77. And the coolest setup for me was I went to the practice facility, I practice as a UTC facility here in Chattanooga where I went to college.

And they have a really good setup. They have great range and they've got a couple holes. One of the holes is a par, it's like a 310 yard par four. All like trees lined down the left and you can kind of cut it off and that's what I was saying about you know visually it helped me so I would do that on that hole because I felt like if I did it on a hole it would give me a good visual I'm like actually driving on a golf hole rather than the range you know you have a 70 yard out wide range and it does the

same but it just visually for me and I did my first session I hit 32 balls I hit 27 on the fairway I had two left in the woods and like three I hit like in front of the bunker or something I was like wait a minute I just hit 20 I mean I'm going both of my feet are in the air I'm going full sand right like I'm going at it of my feet are in the air. I'm going full sand, right? Like I'm going at it. And that's when I started like, hey, am I gonna get straighter through this? And, you know, like trial and error a little bit

here and there on like what worked best and like how my body would react and all that kind of stuff. But like it was, it was kind of of amazing the first time I did it. And the more I did it, the more I did it, I realized, hey, if I'm tired, I'm gonna be two miles an hour slower. If it's cold, I'm gonna be three miles an hour slower. If I just worked out and it's hot,

I'm gonna be two miles an hour faster. There's so many variables, and that's why you said early about the average speed. You know, my average speed is 78 right now. If it's 80, I think in, I can't remember in Dallas, my average for the week was 81, I think, or 80. But then you play like pebble and it's 75

because it's cold and it's windy and you have seven layers on and it's in the morning, whatever it is. That's pretty much it. I did that for probably two years. I don't really do the sessions anymore. I had this conversation with Mike the other day, he's like, hey, you still keeping up. I was like, well, every time I hit a driver, I go 100% at it. So there's my speed session. If I had 15 drivers on the range and 15 drivers on the golf course, there's my 30 balls. Well, it sounds like you're combining the couple things we've talked about here is like you're getting out of the way of some of the mental stuff of trying to guide it. I mean, everybody that goes through driver's stuff is probably trying to guide it

at some point, whereas like your technique is better when you go faster and harder than, you know, just getting your brain out of the way and going. So nothing changed physically in terms of workouts or mobility? I did a little bit of heavier workouts, maybe not as golf specific, a little more like actual fitness, a little heavier squats, a little more lower body. But nothing, I mean, no, I was 185 when I started and I'm 185 now. Like there's no, I might've gotten a little stronger,

I would say. Here's the thing, I think your ceiling goes up, right? Like if you're super strong, you've got to teach your body to swing fast, right? Like that's, I had this conversation with a buddy of mine that's one on the dry that plays on the coin fairy tour. And I was like, if your ceiling is at 175, you got to get stronger because you want your ceiling,

you want your body to be able to swing faster. Like everybody is going to learn how to swing faster. However, like if you're weak or short or whatever it is, technical flaws in the golf swing, your ceiling is going to get lower, right? And my swing was kind of short and laid off. And through the training, it actually got parallel and across the line,

which was a technical flaw that actually got me in the problem areas for years. Like I would kind of, it was laid off, not laid up, but it'd be so far underneath that I'd either flip it way over or I'd hit it way right. And for me to be able to get close to parallel, even past parallel was for me, I had so much time on the top, right? Like I was so used to be like, that I was like just had so much time, right? And that was a technical thing that helped me with, you know, with my golf swing in a

sense on that, that end. And it was like, you know, it, I'm not saying that's gonna happen to everybody. I was gonna say, this doesn't quite sound like advice for everyone, I'm just going. No, I'm not saying that at all. It's hard as you can. I'm not saying that. When I say this, like, hey, you may hit less fairways,

just be ready for that. If you wanna be faster, you may hit less fairways. I don't know, I hit more. So I don't know how to explain that. So if you go to dial up, like I want to hit this harder, like you can easily say swing harder, I'm gonna swing harder. I find that if I just try to swing harder,

sometimes I will slow down, right? If I don't know if that's tension or what's causing that, right? If you go, how would you explain to someone how to go faster? How do you hit it harder? How to swing harder? Like where does it come from?

Is it arms, hips, legs, knees? Your feet, your body just doesn't know. Yeah. Your body doesn't know. Your body has, you've hit so many golf balls, especially pros, you've hit so many golf balls in our life that our body just, that's our speed, right? Like, so those sessions are to teach your body to swing faster. That's

the only thing you're trying to do. It doesn't matter where it goes. Like if I had a speed session, like I've had wayfile balls in a speed session. Like my fastest balls ever were kind of a pull straight ball because they just go for, like they're faster. So if you're doing the sessions, you're actually not thinking about technique. I don't think about technique at all. Like I'm just trying to get as as much speed as I possibly can in this golf ball and your body will figure it out. You know, if you're a good player, your body's gonna figure out now if you're 15 handicapped, you've got you've got some work to like you, hey, figure out how to be a scratch first

and then figure that part out, right? Because you've got 120 miles an hour and you're 15 handicap, like I know what kind of driver you are. Like it's gonna be wild. But like, you know, so it's all about teaching your body to swing faster. And that's why I love that, that, you know, the speed session, because it was your drive, it was my gamer driver.

I would hit it on the golf hole and I would hit it as hard as I never did speed sticks. I never did stack. I never did any of that. And I'm sure it works. You know, I just, I felt like if, why would I want to get quicker with a rod and a weird weight on the end, and then I would go my driver and it feels totally different. I want to get faster with my actual driver. That just made so much sense to me.

Obviously, there's a lot of knowledge and a lot of research behind these things, and I'm sure they do work. I never did them. That's fascinating. I truly did not know the answer to that. That's really interesting. It was, it's kind of boring, but it's, and I'll tell you what, it is, you're exhausted after 30.

I've done some of Mike's stuff. Yeah. And it's, I mean, three sets of eight drivers hitting as hard as you can. And it's like, you're just dripping. Don't even care how hot it is. You are dripping sweat. Yeah. Yeah.

And you saw it the next day. Yes. Yeah. I've not, no one's fault but my own. I hurt myself doing it. I think I've just like. And that's the next part where I realized that I was kind of getting a little bit back issues.

So I needed to up my physio strength recovery program. Because if I'm gonna put that much more pressure on my body, I'm gonna have to be able to calm it down too and make sure it doesn't flare up every single week. And that was something I learned as well. I knew that was gonna happen. I mean, it's just a matter of, like if you're gonna go harder at it,

your body is gonna hurt more. Totally. Simple as that. I mean, for those that aren't following closely, it's paid off in a great way. You're 17th in the FedEx Cup now. I mean, you had, even since the win, you had a T18 at Heritage, T20 at the CJ Cup,

T21 at Wells Fargo, and you have a T3 at Mexico this year as well. T3 at the Farmer's. I picked you to ball out of Pebble. You've course finished 71st in that one. That's great. What 17th in the FedEx Cup now like, I mean, I would have to imagine goals have pretty seriously changed for this year. Is there something you can point at the end of this year to say like, if this if this happens for the remainder year, I can look back this year is a great great success

You know, I actually don't really do goals to be honest with you. Um, they Not those kind of goals. They they actually get me more frustrated than anything. I could say I don't hit them Yeah, right. So I'm more of the guy that I try to I try to have a Growing mentality of all times right Like I want to get better. And that's something I've done over the last couple of years. I want to get better every year. Now, of course, I have goals. Like, you know, of course I want to make the tour championship and I want to be on the Ryder Cup team. All that, you know, all this cool stuff, right?

You want to look back at when your career is over and be like, God, that was cool, right? But I still have so many things that in my mind I can get better, way better at that I can be up there with the best in the world. And that's my goal, right? Ultimate goal is to give everything I got and the time I have left on being able to play professional golf and being able to compete. And if I get everything out of it and I didn't get some of my goals or whatever, too bad,

but at least I gave it my best. And that's kind of the main thing. I want to just want to get better. I want to get better at driving. Obviously you can always get better. I want to get a better iron player. I want to be want to get better. I want to get better at driving. Obviously, you can always get better. I want to get a better IM player. I want to be a better wedge player. My putting needs to be more consistent.

So there are so many things that I still want to do. Mentally, I still have to get a little bit better here and there. So it's a work in progress. And this game never stops, man. You stop working on that when you're done playing golf. That's pretty much when you're done. If I forget to have included this in the intro for those listening, Stephen plays under the,

you're German, so this would be the European Ryder Cup team that you would be playing. Sometimes I forget this as well, because I was like, Ryder Cup presence cup is this year. What are you talking about? No, he's German, he's German. The accent is not quite. It's not talking about? No, he's right. He's German. He's German. The accent is not quite.

It's not there anymore. It's a little bit, but not, not very prominent. Southern, Southern, Tennessee. Tennessee. Yeah, that's right. That's the best. Yeah, that's right.

So, you know, you get to live the dream. Like you have the, your, your young son and wife run out on the 18th green PJ tour event and come hug and kiss and all that. You look so stoic through all of that. I mean, you just like the emotion isn't really, you know, a parent, are you in shock in that moment? Or is it, you know, kind of all the journey you've been on you with, you would think it's kind of overflowing at that point. Yeah. I, um, you know, I, I try to be good. I try to be good loser, also a good winner. And I don't really, celebrating somebody missing doesn't seem like, now if I would have made that putt

and Scotty would have had no chance, I probably would have gotten nuts. But like I just didn't, I had to actually this conversation with my wife the other day. I was like, I just didn't feel like fist pumping in the guy's face. Like that didn't seem right to me. And you know what, I got humbled pretty quickly.

What got we, after all the media stuff and I had Miller lighted the media stuff and I got home and I went in the bathroom with my kid and put him down to bed and we had to go food for celebration. Like as a family, you just kinda, man, you're back to work, right? Like you don't have any any we didn't go out

Celebrating with all my buddies and dinner like I have a son at home that needs to go to sleep at 730 right like that's You're back to reality We did have a nice couple nights at home when I got home and had everybody over and it was it was awesome But yeah, I just didn't feel I'm'm not the look at me guy in a sense. I try to kind of fly on the radar a little bit. And I just I didn't feel like it was the right thing to do to just let loose. And honestly, I thought I was gonna make it. Yeah. I just I was I was seeing my I went out standing now remember when I stood over there. It was face on. And I was standing there, I remember when I stood over there, it was face on.

And I was like, okay, so 18. I was already in 18. Because you kind of get taught that, right? In match play, you're like, hey, you expect that guy to make it, especially that guy. Giving him that opportunity, it was a no-brainer for me. And so we missed it. I was like, wait a minute, what? Just wait, what?

And then like everybody's cheering and I was like, holy shit, I just won. I was, you know, it's my dream for so many years that it was, like you said, it was kind of a little bit more of a shock. And then my wife came out and she was kind of crying and my son was like, I don't know, he always laughs when she cries. I'm not sure what's going on there, but he't know, he always laughs when she cries. I'm not sure what's going on there, but he's laughing and he's looking at all the, you know, pointing at all the cameras and stuff. It was such a cool moment and I'm glad they got to be

there. And you know, one of the goals of my life is to win one when he remembers it, right? Like he don't, he won't remember that. So, you know, hopefully he, you know, when he's six, seven, eight, uh, I may, I may have another shot at it and he actually remembers that being a cool, you know, Hey, that guy's kind of cool. Um, you know, we all his dad's want to do that all the time. So you, you know, you, you pack up, you know, you go home for a week. I said, you didn't play the next week. Did you, you go to, no, I, I was going to play, but then you're off to the master- Then you're off to the Masters.

You're off to Augusta. Had you been to Augusta prior to playing in the Masters? This is the first time? I went down there. I'd always, I mean, I knew a couple members and stuff, and I always said the first time I was, I'm gonna, I've been down there. I mean, I went to a couple of racks rounds years ago,

but I never played it. That was like the first time I wanna play it is when I actually get to play it. We played Thursday before. It was me, my caddy drove up and it was, yeah, it was just us two and the caddy, local caddy, great guy. It was blowing like 30. I was like, hey, yo, what is, like, wait a minute,

this place is impossible. And then sure enough, ended up being impossible for me that week, man. That was once again, a humbler. Golf is a great humbler in life, right? Like he, it just, I actually didn't even feel like I played that poorly. And I shot, I can't remember what I shot the first round, I think two over an 80 second round. That wind was absurd. I mean, that was, I was, I wouldn't have believed it

if I hadn't been there in person on that Friday for just how windy that was. It just was, you know, that place, you have like two or three yards in certain spots, right, to land it on. And you're playing, like, I remember a couple of holes, like I played it in on the right, and then all of a sudden it would be down off the left.

I'm like, how, I don't know what to do here. I don't know how to play this golf course like this, but hey, the best player in the world won, he figured it out. So I don't really, I'll have my revenge on that one. I'll go back and I'll be, you know, not revenge, but like, I wanna have another try at it, you know? It's kind of, kind of coarse that like, it, it,

as soon as you walk off it, you're like, ah, I can go right back and do it. I'll do it differently. I know what to do now. Yeah. I know what to do. And they don't, but it just, with the wind swirling like that, it just was, man, it was insane. Like I've never, I'd never, like you couldn't, you know, as a professional golfer, it if we have 175 and we know we just hit it 175 and you're like

posing on it, you know, like oh my god get down or go. It was just, it was a wild week obviously the first time, you know, we had family there with a big house and it, you almost have to, right? Like it's, you know, like oh you know, we had family there with a big house and it, you almost have to, right? Like it's, you know, like, oh, you know, I want to compete. But it's, you know, it's everybody's dream. Everybody that's kind of been in my corner forever, you know, like you want to share that with everybody. That's kind of the fun part too.

So, but I want to have another crack at it for sure. Yeah. We'll make that tour championship. Then you'll be, you'll be right back. What did you think about Valhalla as a major championship venue? It's my favorite one I've ever played. And I've played three US Open's and two were probably the worst US Open's of all time. And I can let you guess which two there were.

You played? Well, it was in the last six years, eight years. You played three US Open's. You played 15 and 17, which I would call you guess which two there were. You played- Well, it was in the last six years, eight years. You played for US Open, you played 15 and 17, which I would call, that's what's funny. I think Valhalla is a terrible major venue and I think Aerid Hills- What? I love it. And Aerid Hills and Chambers Bay,

I think are fantastic golf courses. Oh, that's terrible, Jesus Christ. If somebody paid me a million dollars to play Chambers Bay, I wouldn't play it again. Would you with like, the greens are way better now? Would you play it again? Was that the biggest culprit of it? I just don't know. I just sometimes Aaron Hills was better. I feel like Aaron Hills was better. Sometimes I just don't love goofy stuff.

Like, Bros don't. Yeah. Hey, trust me. I get it. Like you down into that property and the, I don't know, is it a Hope sound? What's the sound behind it? It's picturesque. It's awesome. It looks cool. It plays terrible.

I didn't enjoy it. I really didn't. Anyways, I really like Valhalla as a golf course. I think it's like now it played as easy as it could get, right? Like the fairways weren't super soft. They were running a little bit and the greens were mush. Like you can't give professional golfers an easier setup. The rough wasn't that thick. It was thick enough, but it wasn't that thick. So I think if they grew the rough up a little more and the greens get firm, I think you should 1200.

Yeah, it it. It seemed like a medium, like a medium level PGA tour course to me, right? It just the way it played and that could be rain or whatever it was. But it Yeah, I like the majors because there's something different, right? There they just Yeah, you like carnage, it's what you like. Not even carnage, it just requires a different level of precision.

Like, you know, I don't want to see just silly golf, right? I don't want to, it just feels like, comparing it to Oak Hill the prior year, it just felt like there was a better balance of risk reward of trying to balance making birdie versus making birdie. Oak Hill was great. Honestly, Oak Hill was good.

It did have some funky stuff too. Some of the holes, like when it gets, it did have some funky stuff too. Some of the holes, like when it gets, I can't remember, number seven, you had to hit like a four iron if you landed anywhere right, it would go in the water. Not a great hole. But okay, I think the PGA does honestly the best job setting it up every year. Like US Open, they just honestly try to aggravate you non-stop. Well, they've stopped trying to do that since Shinnecock at 18. They've been pretty soft on the setup since then. That's true. You played way too much. Well, we'll see what

the planet Earth is going to look like here. I don't know what the weather looks like in North Carolina, but if that place gets firm and fast, you know, that'll be fun to watch. But you know, in an honestly, that's something I definitely need to learn as well, right? Like you've got a you know, if you want to compete in majors, there is gonna be some goofy stuff and you're gonna have to get, like you said, more precise and you know, put it on a list, man. That's something I definitely need to get better at. I want to get better at because I want to have a change. You know, I want to be able to win. There's no reason you can't now. Right? I mean, that's the thing is there's no, there's no, you've passed the prerequisite, right? You hit an above average

distance. Like that opens up just so many doors for you. It really does. I agree. I agree. I agree. Last question. I hope this is, how is no baked cookie dough still going? It is not going anymore. It is not, darn it. Okay. It is still going period. Okay. So you can still buy some online, but it won't do us any good. Okay.

No, we closed shop this year actually because it was a kind of a combo between my wife and her sister and they had a second baby and we had a baby. It just nobody had time for it. I figured as much honestly. With Suzy, I saw that you had one and a half year old. Yeah, I mean, it just we didn't have time for it. And but it was a cool deal, right? Like the product was unbelievable. What was it for those who don't know?

It's like a it's an edible cookie dough that was, you know, that was really easy to kind of travel with cause it was, it used like, he treated flour. So it wouldn't like, you know, there wasn't any issue. I mean, I can't say it. Like there shouldn't been any issues on like being able to not have in the, in the refrigerator all the time. And there was no egg in it.

But I thought it was the best product I've ever had. And I love rock booby-doh, right? And it was cool. It was fun, but now we do not have time for that. I would be very confused as to how you would have time to work out. Yeah, I'm like, hey, dude, go practice. Right? Practice and take care of your kids.

That's right. That's right. All right. We're gonna let you out, man. We'll be seeing you a lot more in the remainder of this season and really happy for you excited for your success. I'll dig up the episode number we use Stephen's been on the podcast. Gosh, that was what 2018 we were in Germany. I think we did that. That pod in cologne in cologne. That's exactly right. Yeah, about six years ago. Terrible there. We weren't hitting anywhere back then. Yeah, that's true. Yeah.

And that golf was kind of tough. So but super pumped for your success, man. We really appreciate your time. And yeah, keep it going. I think you're just you're just getting started. I really do believe that. So that's your time. Cheers. Thanks. Be the right club. Be the right club today. Johnny, that's better than most. How about him? That is better than most.

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