No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - 877 - Justin Thomas on links golf, Royal Troon, and bouncing back from his 2023 struggles

Episode Date: July 31, 2024

Justin Thomas returns for his annual visit to the podcast to discuss the bonus golf he played in Scotland and Ireland, reaction to his week at Royal Troon, bouncing back from his 2023 struggles, what the US team has learned at the Ryder Cup, his involvement with Keegan Bradley getting selected as the next captain, how he wants to see the golf wars resolved, and a ton more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Music Be the right club today. Music Better than most. How about the end? That is better than most. Better than most. Music Expect anything different? Better than most!

Expect anything different? Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No Laying Up podcast. Sal here got an interview coming shortly with Justin Thomas, our annual interview here on the No Laying Up podcast. We greatly appreciate JT's time. We talked a lot of stuff. The Ryder Cup pick last year, how it was depicted in full swing, his dip in his game, getting his game back. World Troon, his, you know, a lot of other stuff, overarching stuff that's going on in the golf world. Greatly appreciate JT's time and perspective on all these things, some good stories and some good insight throughout all this. You will see I've got my Roeback crewneck on. You know I'm rocking Roeback. I'm wearing it pretty much every day.

There's a reason why you always see us in it, the reason why we're always talking about it. They just make so much incredible stuff. I love putting it on. I'm comfortable to wear out in public or just wear around the house. I'm always rocking the hoodies. They're extremely comfortable. You know, there's a reason why I cycle through the same hoodies on repeat because I just can't take them off. They're the best. They're my favorite thing to wear both inside the house and outside the house. They make great shorts. The

everyday shorts are fantastic. The Looper shorts are great for the golf course and a more formal look. They got great vests, polos, you know, Q-zips, the entire, they got the whole gamut. They got the whole thing. Joggers, I cannot wait for jogger season to come back. If you haven't already, time to load up on some Roeback for yourself and for others. Code Nlu at rowback.com get you a generous 20% off your first order through the end of this week that's spelled RHO back.com 20% off bottoms q zips hoodies and more with code nlu summer isn't the same without row back without any further delay. Here's our podcast with Justin Thomas. So how many

rounds of golf did you play overseas that were not practice rounds for the two tournaments you played in not competitive rounds for the tournaments that you played in not competitive rounds for the tournaments that you played in how many other extra rounds of golf did you play in the UK and Ireland? I played five total. So yeah, I played what played at North Berwick on Monday of the Scottish Open. And then after the open went on a little trip to Ireland and played four rounds and

three days there. So yeah, I'm a psychopath. I played a lot of golf. This is new. This is not something you guys have done after majors or after the first open, is it? No, it's not. I think we, I mean, it was, it was myself and Jordan and Smiley were the only golfers there. The rest were just kind of our buddies that, I mean, it was, it was more, you know, obviously them on their time off, they want to play golf. And I knew this was going to happen. Jordan, the whole time is like, dude, there's no way I'm playing every day. Like, it's just going to be too,

like we have 13 people anyway. So it's like that someone needs to sit out, like I'll happily sit out and watch. And I told Smiley, I'm like, there's no chance it skips, I guarantee you. And every single round like I knew I knew what was gonna happen but it's just yeah I mean I like I've always loved Lynx golf but I think after explaining and showing our buddies like it just I there's not very many places where I would want to go take a golf trip like that and I'm obviously not in the UK ever unless I'm for there. And I love golf, but I'm not going to go. It doesn't really make much sense time wise to take time out of the season to

go there. And with this amount of time off, it was perfect. That's what was surprising is that, you know, I could see kind of, you know, you play a few on the way over and, and, you know, getting ready for tournaments on the back half, man, you guys had to be exhausted one, but, uh, I don't know. That warms my heart, man. It's cool to see guys out playing some cool golf course, experiencing different parts of the golf culture, you know, that helps drive your profession and all that

stuff. But I just, I find it interesting. You seem to have a decent, uh, appreciation for some of the quirky golf courses over there and that style of play. For sure. And I think it's like, I told all of us were kind of telling the, the, our other guys, the, I guess the amateur players, if you will, is like, you think it's like I told all of us were kind of telling that the our other guys, the I guess amateur players, if you will, is like you it's not, at least to me, and you've played way more than I have. But like, it's it's not like

America, where like you pull up to a Muni and like it can be bad. But like, I have a hard time believing there's really any places over there that where you walk away and you're like, wow, that was terrible. Like they're all fun. And some even if it's, you know, 5700 yards from the back tees, like there's a reason it's 5700. Like there's some wild stuff going on. But yeah, I think, you know, if there's a scenario, like if the Scottish isn't when it was like if I was going to, I would probably, you know, go early before the open,

you know, maybe you can go play some places. But yeah, I mean, looking back, I would have preferred the trip on the beginning as opposed to the end in my interest level in golf, but it was still fun. What does playing that style of golf do for you? I mean, in terms of, can you freewheel it a little bit better? Do you find something in your game in there?

Like the efforts are so different, obviously, and just playing casual golf versus competitive golf, like, you know, are you able to think less about your swing? And do you find anything that would help you in competition next week, next month, next year? I'm just curious kind of how how that part of the process works. Yeah, I think this year, this I feel like leaving the Open this year, I mean, I've always had plenty of confidence and I've always loved Lynx Golf, but this is truly, I think, the

first time where I very legitimately feel like, okay, I'm ready to win an Open. I feel like I can do all the things that I need to do to win an Open Championship. And I think I've struggled as much as I love Lynx Golf. My record is not very good at it other than the Scottish. I played well a couple of times at one open, but it's the adjusting. And the hard part for me is it's, which is essentially what happens on a trip in Ireland where it's not competition. I can't hit a normal shot.

My caddies, I actually kind of feel bad, but like I just, when it doesn't mean anything, like, I mean, I'm literally an eight iron from like 90, a hundred years. Like I'm just like, okay, is there anything in the way? Like I'm just going to run it because it's my score does not mean anything. And I made so many pars of just because it's stupid, but it's also like, I can't do it, you know, you can't do that in the States. So it's, but the reason I say that is tying that into like the competitive or helping side is like, I have a very artistic, creative mind. And I think sometimes I've struggled with knowing when to feed that and when to not feed that. And, and, you know, there's just a lot of times, like, if I step up on a hole, the first shot

I see is what I see. And it's very different than probably everybody else and how they're hitting it there or what they're doing. But it's just, it's what my mind initially sees. So that's likely what I need to do the most. And there's a time and a place for it. So little things like that, I think think can be helpful, not just in. Blinks tournaments, but also just regular golf in general.

Well, it's an interesting, I wanted to ask about this too, because I hear this a ton, I see this a ton, you know, we, we, you know, on rounds, like I'm thinking back to like Saturday, 2022 players championship, the wind, I think you hit seven or six iron on 17. And I remember being like, like J like, like everybody says JT has all the shots. He has all the shots. He can hit it high, he can cut it, he can draw it, he can do all these things. And it was like that day called for, hey man, you better have all the shots.

But I think a lot of pro golf, when you stand up on a lot of holes, it doesn't ask the question of do you have all the shots a lot? And I see guys like John Rahm, Dustin Johnson, that consistently hit the same golf shot on repeat, have a ton of success in pro golf. So I'm kind of curious, it really does seem like you have a very unique skillset in terms of what you can channel and we've messed around

with track man and stuff on the ranges, all the cuts and all the stuff you can do with it. It sounded like from what you were saying there that that can maybe potentially have a in some ways a negative effect on how you are coming up with a plan for golf shots on competitive golf events. Is that fair? I would say so. And I think a lot of it too is the headspace I'm in at that current time. And also, you know, I mean, like

Rev is now getting comfortable enough where he's seeing enough of these shots that, you know, if I pull out a club on some holes, he in the beginning maybe was like, what are you doing? Whereas now is seated enough to kind of understand. And I mean, an example I immediately just thought of, like, at the Canadian open, like 2020, 22 when Rory won, there was a par three. I think it was like the eighth hole maybe. Um, but the, I, it was like seven or eight, but the green kind of sat at like a 45 degree angle, right to left. And it just was kind of a bowl more on the left, but kind of a bowl and like the back pen, you know, would be like 230 yards or something. And it's like, as soon as I step on that tee, I just see

like aiming 30 yards right at the green and hooding a six iron and the ball just feeding up the green. I'm like, it just like, look, it's right there. And, you know, then I would, I'd like heal it or miss hit it. And I just, you know, at the time with bones, I was like, I feel like I made that shot a lot harder than it needed to be. So that is it but at the same time, like that's it's also 230 yards, right? So like, if I don't pull it off, but it's a situation where I still very easily make three, then like, that's the right shot. You know, I think it's why Bubba was so successful

or has had the amount of success he's had, I think on certain courses. And because yeah, there's just plenty of weeks where that creativity works in certain, you know, conditions, firmness, whatever you call it. But yeah, you know, if you go to a super soft place, big fairways, flat, like you don't have that same reason to hit all of those shots.

So I think there is a reason why, you know, you don't have to be as one dimensional or whatever anymore. But I do think that it at least helps knowing you can go to a course and you feel like you have the shots. It might not visually be comfortable to you, but you know that you can't hit them, if that makes sense. Yeah, and I think it, and we're getting really in the weeds with this, but I think it can be, you know, let's just throw this out.

Let's say 50% of the time you're hitting a stock shot, 50% you're kind of working against whatever stock shot that is. The best, maybe let's say, you know, somebody that's on a different slide of that scale might be 80-20, 80% of the time I'm gonna hit my stock shot, 20% of the time. It's worth it to go against my stock shot

and go after a draw, right? Have you trended in any direction on that? Like, do you see, do you, have you identified like, hey, I need more stock shot, I'm gonna hit more stock shots on the PGA Tour? I would say, not necessarily. I would say. Not necessarily, I mean, I think I I predominantly always still like to hit a cut. I like to see I feel like when I'm

hitting it my best, it starts a little left. It falls a little right. I would say that with my irons I probably I work at more right to left than I used to, but it's more so than I feel like I can kind of change clubs to fit certain shot shapes if it's needed, but I think I did get away from that a little bit and I got too much into like, this is the shot I need to hit versus what's the shot that's most comfortable to hit. Um, and, and little things like that.

And I think it's very situational, of course, but also kind of how, how I'm playing, I think if, you know, if I'm not swinging it well, me going out and hitting shots and kind of on the range, maybe going back and forth of hitting a draw, a cut, and then maybe a bigger draw, a bigger cut, a huge slice, a big hook, and then it's like then I maybe accidentally kind of start figuring out where the club face is and making sure I'm missing on the right side. And then it's kind of next thing you know, you end up playing yourself into like a little bit of a groove. So, um, you know, that doesn't really answer your question at all.

It does. It does. But it's, yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a sliding scale for every single week to, you know, it, uh, it depends on what kind of your feels are and all that. But what do you, what do you make of your week at the open at True? And you start with 68, of course, that's fantastic. Your opening nine in the second round didn't go great, if I'm being honest.

I mean, it wasn't great. But shoot 33 on the back nine. You know, you have a good Saturday, a bad Sunday. Do you walk away from that week saying, you know, it sounded like you had a positive takeaway of saying I can win one of these, I can do it. But kind of what's your reaction here five days after the open? It is definitely way, way more good than bad.

I think my good is extremely, extremely good right now, which is great. But at the same time, I mean, I've always said this, the differentiator of the top players in the world and the people of the 20s and 30s in the world is how good their great is. I'm sorry, how good their bad is. And my bad has just not been good enough lately. That's just the fact that's hands down. But some of it is putting too much pressure on myself or kind of getting in those moments and feeling like I have to do something versus just trusting it and letting it happen. It is funny you said about Saturday, I told Jordan and he was making fun of me. I feel bad, I don't wanna put the guy on blast,

but it's more of the funny story of the guy, I think from Japan on Friday Did you see like I think you shot? 52 on the back. He shot like 90 made back-to-back nines. I know at one point. Yes. Yes So I just was curious. I'm like, you know, I saw it I looked at a scorecard and I'm like, hold like he he clipped me by six on the front and I was like I gotta look and see how this match play would have gone. We went to 18 all square.

But I beat him one up on 18. Then Jordan had a field day with that once he found that out. But it's just golf over there is wild, man. I think the bad days are very, very hard to rein it in when things are not going well in those brutal conditions. I think if you're not playing well and it's calm, like, yeah, it might be harder, but like the ball is still going to kind of do what you think.

But it's just when it's that windy, it's just, it's so hard to get the ball where you need to get it to like make a par and salvage pars. And I just kept missing greens. And it's just like, you could hit so many good chips to four to 10 feet, four to eight feet, and then that kind of win that's just unrealistic asking to make all of those. So it was, uh, it was definitely more positive than negative, but I still had some, a nice some nice negative in there.

Well, you could tell too how you're playing of once you flip and the wind is less uncomfortable direction, if you will, you've shoot two under on the back or three under on the back, I forget which side, which was what, but like, and you surrounded it by so much good golf. That's why I'm just curious, one really bad nine and otherwise you're right there in it. For sure. I mean, I was honestly really proud of myself for Friday that back nine Friday, too Because I think I mean I'd had you know, I had a terrible finish Terrible back nine at Augusta last year to miss the cut I've had a literally a four hole stretch at Augusta this year on Friday that took me from

In contention in the golf tournament to missing the cut, which I never have had happen. So it's like there's a little bit there that is like, oh, shit, like we don't need like this can't be happening again type situation. And like I was saying, it's not like it's easy to just like, OK, you know, we're good. Let's just do whatever. But I I was proud of myself for that because I did. I battled really hard and very, very tough conditions on a very, very tough nine holes there and, and then played myself into

contention on Saturday. So obviously Sunday didn't go how I wanted, but it would have never been available if I didn't hang in there on Friday. Do you think this is maybe, of course, me projecting, but I'm just looking at how golf has evolved in, basically since you've been coming on this podcast, which is almost a decade now, which is insane. But looking at, you were the number one player

in the data golf rankings as of May 23rd, 2022, right? Which you were around like a two strokes game level, and I'm getting in the weeds here, but now that number one player is at three and the number two players like at 2.5. And like the, it just seems to me like the level of play on the PJ tour at the highest level has changed so much. It's incredible.

I mean, get to some of those factors at all, but do you, is there any level of like pressing that has come from like how competitive? the highest level of competitive golf has gotten and that you you know, I don't know how to ask this other than like hey if I'm Slightly less than perfect today I might not be in contention at all and that causes a dip all the way back into just being around average Which is you know instead of hanging in competing for top 10s top 15 top 20s You're trying a little bit too hard to be perfect and it can have a negative effect. Have you felt any of that like internally in terms of where some of the game is trending?

I've, I've felt it. I felt it a little bit, but probably not as much in that the way you said of like a, like I haven't gone into a tournament. Um, definitely this year. I mean, I had plenty of wild array of thoughts last year. But this year, I felt like once I started, you know, after Napa and then and hero, it was like I went to Palm Springs and I was I haven't played this year, even in the elevated events feeling like I can't win the golf tournament. Like, I haven't played this year even in the elevated events feeling like I can't win the golf tournament. Right. I don't feel like I have to be perfect to win.

But on the other side of that, probably the way I'm most similar or that I feel to that the most similar way is that I feel like I played quite a bit better this year. There's definitely little things here and there that I would always want to be better. I haven't finished off tournaments as much as I wanted, but, and then I look at things like a world ranking or a data golf, whatever you want to call it. And I'm like, I feel like I'm playing really good and I've done a lot of great things.

And I've, I've moved down from where I was last year in the world ranking. And then it that's, so that's a part to me. And, you know, constantly being reminded of like, when are you going to win again? When you do this again? It's like, well, it's, I'm trying. It's not, it's not from that, but it, it also kind of put into reality a little bit.

And also made me feel good about myself of like, in order to be in the top there, you know, the top couple, like you have to, you have to be winning because you can't finish second, third, fourth every single week. You have to be winning and like as consistently as I was in the top five in the world, I would say, or 10 in the world, like I'd won a lot. So not winning, I realized how hard it is to be in that upper echelon, if you will, ranking wise in the top handful without having those victories. And that's what I haven't had the last two years. So it's hard to expect that without having that kind of thing.

Well, it's just hard. It sounds like you feel like you've played, you haven't gotten as much out of your good golf as you might've thought this past year. played you haven't gotten as much out of your good golf as you might have thought this this past year? 100% I think a lot of people that have either played with me or watched me play or or you know Rev or myself like they know that I'm playing exponentially better than the results are showing and that's just a part of it and staying patient on my end. No laying up is brought to you by Fandl whether you're playing golf or betting it, there's nothing worse than first tee jitters. But with Fandl, you can crush your first bet off the tee. Right now, new customers get $150 in bonus bets guaranteed with any $5 bet that's $150.

Win or lose, there's a lot of great action to be had on the upcoming men's golf side. On the Olympics, there's a lot of other Olympics offers they have out there. Of course, Women's Olympics golf event is next week as the following week as well. Check out their markets, go for the green, all PGA Tour season along with bets like longest drive, closest to the pin, outright winners and more. Visit fandual.com slash n-i-u.

Hit your first bet right down the middle of the fairway with Fandual, America's number one sports book. Fandual official betting operator of the PGA Tour. Must be 21 and older, older in DC and President select states gambling problem call 1-800 gambler visit rg dash help.com first online real money wager only $10 first deposit required bonus issued as non-retributable bonus bets that expire seven days after a street restrict after receipt restrictions

apply see terms at sportsbook.fandl.com back to the pod. What you mentioned some of the struggles you had last year and we can get into some of that, but I wanted to start that part of the convo with asking, I mean, you have incredibly consistent run basically from 2017 through 2022, 2023 is your first kind of subpar year by year standards out on tour. You've gotten things back on track,

you've bounced back from that year though, it's still not quite to the level that you'd like. Do you, what are you looking for in 2023? Are you like searching for something? Do you know what you need to be doing to improve on it? And are you trying to get back or are you trying to figure out a new path forward? I don't know if that makes sense at all,

but like, bodies change, lives change, everything. Going back and trying to do whatever you're doing in 2019 might not be the answer. I'm curious kind of your journey towards finding what is going to work for you at the highest level. Yeah, no, that's a great question. I think it's also just a great point. Like it's, I, that's something, you know, like Julie, who I work with, and kind of the mental side of things who, rightfully so, I don't wanna say blown up, but has become a bigger name with the past couple years of people she's worked with, but of like, don't try to go back to an old me,

try to become a new me. Anything that's happened in the past, yeah, I can obviously build on it and wanna use it as a learning experience, but there's no reason I can't and do think that I can be better than I have been in past. So why there's going to be little things here and there, but I think that's a trap and easy to get into of looking at videos, comparing things here and there. Like, I think I have these couple characteristics of my swing that I will always have

to some extent, but there's maybe little tiny things here and there that, like you said, you know, you things change, like my body, it changes. It's wild, but it's just the reality. And, but I think the quicker I realized that, or did realize that the better off it was for me because it's it is it's you can go down some dark holes of putting things side by side and trying to Okay, I had to do this and do this. But like, look at here and how's that and it's like, I mean, okay, what does a camera angle like, you know, just how does that change?

How does this it's like, there's so many things that you can just drive yourself mad. And did you, you helped me understand, did your dad is your swing coach completely? He's been your swing coach since you were a kid. Is that in total? Did you seek any other opinions during any of this? Was that a thought process of how you're trying to figure things out as well? Yeah, yeah. There was a couple coaches I talked, like at the end of last year and just, I mean, my, our big thing is, is I didn't, I never wanted to go to anybody or do anything that was going to make it more complicated. It just was like, you know, maybe, maybe this person could say a thing or two that like we're missing. Because, because I think we, my dad and I would both admit that like we were really, really, really good at fixing the issues

that I had for that certain amount or the certain period of time. And I was very fortunate that I basically had kind of like four or five things that I just rotated through that like, you know, I, my setup, we get a little this way and like my right arm would get high. Then it's like, I would get the club shut going back. Okay. I would get too long. I would get stuck underneath and going down.

So it's like, okay, check that out. Check this out. Maybe grip thing here and there. But, and then I think both of us, like, I just ran into it or got to a place where. It was completely different than everything that we had worked on or looked for that neither one of us really knew how to fix it. And it's stupid. Like that shouldn't be the, you know,

you should be fixing what you're seeing, not, but I think we both got so comfortable of like, all right, yeah, look, it's a little inside here. So like, let's just take it outside today. And then, so that's, we were so used to looking for those things that all of those things seem right. But then like, it's one of those things when you go back and look at it, like I look at a video of my swing last year and a video of my swing like four

years ago, I'm like, how the hell could either one of us not see how drastically different this was, as it's going on. So how drastically different this was as it's going on. So yeah, it just was, obviously would have rather not happened and not got to that place, but you know, you learn from it kind of thing. Well, we've seen, I mean, I can't, I'm trying to think of somebody we haven't seen go through this at some point on course where, I mean, I'm sure you're working on things and then in this time period, correct me if I'm wrong, you're probably thinking more golf swing than you want to be thinking when you're out there playing. And you in this time period, correct me if I'm wrong, you're probably thinking more golf swing

than you wanna be thinking when you're out there playing. And you know, the journey, you know, when you're in the midst of trying to solve, and there's a difference too when you're arriving at the golf course every day, thinking about how to solve something versus like ready to go compete and go play and find out how good you are instead of fixing the bad,

I think. Where are you at in that journey now? As you're, you know, comparing like how you're playing right now versus a year ago, are you thinking less about the golf swing on it? Do you feel like you're back in a total competitive mode? Yeah, I feel in a great place. I really do. And kind of like I said earlier, truly to me is about just getting, just cleaning things up, you know, just making, getting rid of those bad mistakes, those maybe those couple mental errors here and there, there's always little things here and there that I can, that I can improve on swing wise. But a lot of these swing thoughts that I've been able

to kind of get back into this year are all familiar. I feel like I got back into my fun, my DNA and my fundamentals that kind of have made me a really good iron player and a really good ball striker that I got away from. So getting back into those just brings back some memories, some muscle memories, some feels, some thoughts to where I like having one or two things to think about while I'm playing. But that being said, yeah, it definitely is something where I can't be going to the course every day like, all right, yeah, how am I going to fix this or what's going to happen?

And I think it's it is like last year was more of I had good enough hands as I kind of explained, I feel like I had good enough hands to make it work for a day or two. But over the course of a week over the course of like a year, it's just, there's no way what I had going on as a cutter of the golf ball, there's just, it was not, it couldn't hold up. So, um, I feel, I know and feel that I'm in a place that it can, it's just more of executing it and doing it. What is that like in our, in a Ryder Cup year? Obviously you were at the a subject of full swing zoomed in on the the possibility of being selected were you genuinely Concerned about not being selected. Was there any indication, you know from you know

Captains along any point of the path to kind of try to ease your stress in the prime I'm curious kind of your view on that process and did that contribute to you know, some of some of the struggles you had last year. I on that process and did that contribute to, you know, some of some of the struggles you had last year? I think it had a lot to do with it. I felt extremely similar to to 2016. I remember like trying so hard to make that Ryder Cup team and I want to do so bad and it literally just it took over my life like it's all I could think. I was out playing tournament rounds and instead of trying to birdie 18 to finish third

instead of seventh, I'm like, I really want to birdie 18 so I can get more Ryder Cup points and then be on. And it's just, like those things are obviously reality and you know it, but like you can't be thinking that. And last year was, that was on steroids. I was I was thinking about it so much and I truly. It's hard to say because I feel like, yeah, if I got in the playoffs, I was kind of starting to hit a little bit of rhythm and go into a place that I

really like that I felt like my competitiveness could have maybe got me through, but if I would choose right now, if I, you know, would have done what I did and then and made the playoff or and made the Ryder Cup team or not get picked for the Ryder Cup team and gone to Memphis and, you know, finish 60th and finish 68th in the FedEx Cup, like I'm taking the Ryder Cup all day. So it was, it definitely was something that took over and is something I don't need to have, you know, do again kind of thing. What did you think of how that was portrayed in full swing? It was kind of a little bit to me, but like it was kind of painting you as campaigning

for a spot a little bit. Were you campaigning for a spot, Juan? And how did you think of how that was portrayed? I definitely wasn't campaigning for a spot a little bit. Were you campaigning for a spot, Juan? And how did you think of how that was portrayed? I definitely wasn't campaigning for a spot. I joked, I was like, we got done. I watched it with Jill and I was like, I kind of find myself rooting for Keegan after watching this. It's tough, but I mean, it's also like, it's the reality. Like Keegan, if you put our years against each other, like he deserved to be on that team more than I did. And I think it's not a secret or it's it's not anything hidden of why I

probably end up getting a pick. And he didn't and I and that that was probably the biggest thing to me is that, you know, it made it seem like it was like the only captain's pick. It's like, you know, there's there's, there's six captain picks here. And obviously, there was a I would say, three, four that were shoe ends and very obvious, but I feel like that last spot, if you will, could have easily kind of three or four names could have been thrown around. But it's TV, it's what kind of wanted to create.

But yeah, I jokingly, I was like, yeah, watching this, I don't really feel like I should have made this team. And kind of rooting for Keegan to get this pick. But- How did that have any effect on how you approach the Ryder Cup, how you felt in the team room? Did you feel any extra pressure on your play and kind of how would you evaluate how your week personally went?

I mean, I felt like I let the team down. I felt like I played terrible. I was gutted to not win more points. I was gutted to not be playing that first morning. Like there was a lot, it was the first time I've fortunately ever had to rely on a pick to make a team. And, you know, like I obviously had many conversations

with Zach throughout the year, like he does with everybody. I mean, communication was big to him. And I just remember feeling like telling the last thing that I told him, talking to him whenever it was, however many weeks before, is it was just like, look, if the guys on that team and the captains and you, if you guys think I am not a better addition to the team, then you 100% should not pick me. Like I've been in those conversations of guys in the team and we've picked people that maybe are ranked lower than others, but we feel like it's what's

better for the team. And you know, it's so that was kind of what I wanted to tell him is I was like, I don't want you to feel like there's any pressure on this situation to feel like I have to be that person because of, you know, I've played well in past. Like if you think that there's people that are gonna play better on this team and the other guys in the team do, then that's a hundred times out of a hundred what you have to do.

And, but everybody on the team made me feel like I deserve to be there. You know, although my year may not have said that, but there's a part of me that said I did deserve, there's a reason to be there. Although my year may not have said that, but there's a part of me that said I did deserve, there's a reason I was there. And how they kind of relayed that to me, if you will, just made me feel like there was no other way, which is what's good teammates do.

Let's say you would not have been picked. Would you have wanted to go over, be an assistant captain of some kind? Would you have wanted to have been part of the process or would that have been too difficult? Yeah. I definitely would have. I 100% would have,

I would have done anything that I could do to make a team better. I mean, the first, I would say again, the first thing I tell any captain that is named captain at that time, or whenever it is, is like, just let me know if I can ever do anything to help you or make this team better, whether and I say whether I'm on the team or

not, like it's it, I just they're, they're such a special week, and it's such a special feeling. And if there's anything that can be done to make others whether it be more comfortable or enjoy the week more, like I would have happily done that. It would have been weird, but I would have happily done it. Well, I want to get it and things are obviously going to be changing. We'll get into this kind of some of the reaction with Keegan being named captain of the next team, but I'm sitting here.

Of course, this is my job though to pontificate on a lot of golf stuff. I have point, maybe 0.1% of the information necessary to come to a conclusion like this, but I'm going to come to it anyways. But it doesn't seem like as a whole, the United States Ryder Cup team in general, like gets it like the talent is there. You Americans have won seven straight majors, like it's obvious Europe has talent, but like statistically, the US is a, you know, more talented group, they were more talented going into Rome. It's been seven straight times going over to Europe and it hasn't worked out right despite having some good teams right. So we hear a lot of they just played better, they made

more putts. And I as a fan watching it, I feel like I'm watching two completely different processes in terms of how players and teams, you know, are getting ready to potentially play their best golf, right? Like I feel like and this is a broad general stroke, I'm painting it. You guys are very confident in your talents and you will say, we are the best players in the world and we're going to show up and we're going to play our best golf. And a lot of times you don't. Whereas Europe seems to get the most out of everyone contributing.

And it seems like the Rory's and the Rom's and all those guys, like take their name plate before the week starts and they slap it outside the locker room door and they don't look at their their name again the rest and they will do literally anything they can to win it from there on and I'm wondering do you one you're nodding with some of this which makes me feel like less of an idiot but to like do you look at anything that Europe is doing and with a little bit of envy and a little bit of like hey they're willing to do this they're willing to do this this isn't on captains like from, hey, they're willing to do this, they're willing to do this. This isn't on captains, like from a player perspective,

they're getting the most out of all these players. How can we emulate that? And do you get a sense that it's, you know, things are going to evolve on that front? Yes, I would hope so. I mean, I think that's a big reason of, I think this Keegan pick, I think. I know being on the committee, I mean after Rome, yeah, all of us were pissed.

And I think it was, I think if we were asked the same questions we were that week, whether it be before the tournament or after the tournament about preparation and taking that much time off beforehand, I think it was easy in the moment for us to be like, no, like we, you know, we're ready, we're rested, whatever it may be. And, but looking back at it, like, yeah, obviously

we should have all played more. We should have found something to play. I did because I missed the playoffs and I had to go play Napa and that's a different story. But it's hard to... I wish there was something that was like a little more consistent that could be when it is every year, because I feel like my first one I went to, we went straight from Atlanta there. And then we've had others where it's like that,

where it's like five weeks off after the tour championship. And I completely understand where guys are coming from that. After that grind and going and playing in Atlanta, because the only events really you're playing in, you're not necessarily wanting to go travel internationally and go play these events. So I wish there was potentially some more consistency in that front of like, OK, we know it's gonna be,

maybe there's an agreement of like, well, after Atlanta can't be more than this amount of weeks and can't be this amount of weeks close to a big European tour event to where it's a little bit more like, hey, you still need to do something, but it's not all over the place. But I do think there's efforts being made to,

just to make things better. I think of guys that everyone's excited to be around and everyone's having fun with. And I think that hasn't not been the case in past, but I think that it really struck me in Rome looking at the variety of their vice captains. And I was like, there's a reason every single person is here that is here as a vice captain. And just when I, when I saw that, I felt like, OK, like they're clearly thinking about something that maybe we haven't been. And that's something that we should do a little bit more. And I feel like we have and potentially, and hopefully will more. And that's where it feels like they did a great job of,

we had Eduardo Molinarri on the pod and they, you know, he talked about a lot of this stuff and they did a great job and they've done a great job going all the way back. If you listen to, we did an interview with Paul McGinley, who was captain back in 2014, he talked about taking Graham McDowell, who was a top five player in the world, months in advance, sitting down with him

in the back of the limo and be like, hey, essentially you're gonna be babysitting Victor Dubuisant for the Ryder Cup, okay? And if you do this for me, only enforce him, that's all you're gonna do, you're gonna go out first in singles. So like months in advance, he knew what he, instead of like, it just seems to me,

again from 10,000 miles away, that you guys end up, you're very confident in your abilities and you end up putting a lot of pressure on yourself just to play great golf, like to play really good golf and to beat the other team, whereas they're able to break things down on a more micro level of like, you're gonna play with this guy and you're gonna do this,

go do this for me, hang that point on the board and don't worry about the rest. And I'm ranting and I mean, I could talk about this for for hours and hours, but like, it does seem like there has to be a reason with this many in a row of having talented teams over not play their best golf. And you know, it there has to be a reason contributing to that is what is what I'm getting at. And I'm wondering, you know, kind of give me some confidence that

this is going to get flipped around. I Yeah, I mean, it's, I I'm confident that we're making all of the efforts we can to have it be to be in a better position for success is what I would say. I mean, obviously, it's, I think that's the big thing, right? Is that, you know, like you look at France and look at last year and obviously last year got closer than it was.

But like as a whole, like that was an ass beating and same with France and like, that's the thing. Like you can, there's clearly a lot of things that we did we could have done much better to to get our butts handed to us that bad right so I think that's the big thing is there's so many great players and yeah there's been plenty of times where they they've played better made more putts whatever you want to call it but I think you you know you've hit some some points or brought up some great points of like, there's obviously some things that they're potentially doing that we're missing. And the hope is to, if that's the case, then let's find them and see what we can do to fix them. And so that way, once we're there that week, we're in the best position for success possible. And then once that first match tees off Friday, we feel fully confident that this isn't anything

other than the best we can be. Yeah. So you said as part of the committee, you were, I guess, we were part of the team that ended up anointing Keegan the captain. What's your role in that process? And what was any of that like? I don't think any of us really know how Keegan ended up

being the Ryder Cup captain. Yeah, no, I was I was on all the conversations and knew and it was it was a tough, tough secret to keep because I mean Keegan and I practice and play a lot down here. And I've become very close with them or a lot. I should say a lot closer with them over the past couple of years. Just I respect his work, work ethic a lot and he really gets after it. So we'll play practice rounds from time to time. And we just like coincidentally happened to play back to back weeks of practice rounds after I had known what was going to be happening.

It was tough, but yeah, it's, there's a lot of conversation. There's a lot of looking at it, hitting it from every single angle to make sure that this is what everybody on board felt like was the right and the best option type thing. Yeah, it's certainly, it's interesting. I think it, I was surprised to hear about the process of Keegan,

not knowing he was the captain until he got a call to say it, but like, I think I can get there. I think I can get on board in terms of what that's gonna bring a little bit of youthful energy brought to it. And John Wood's gonna be able to bring a lot to the table. I really do think so. And it's got me, it's got me excited, excited, I think.

But I guess, do you see, I mean, obviously, it's a president's cup year and obviously you have a home rider cup and then you have another president's cup before you have this road rider cup thing that I think is the dark cloud that is following this team all around to any event you play in until you win one of those. So is the process, is the team strategy overall

changing now for president's cup? Does it change next year for rider cup? Is it changing really at all? This seems like a big turnover is what I'm saying. now? Like for President's Cup? Has it changed next year for Ryder Cup? Is it changing really at all? Like, kind of went this seems like a big turnover is what I'm saying. When is that like, is it a slow roll into to kind of this new approach? I would say so. Um, yeah, I mean, I think especially since all of this was done after present, exactly. Yeah, like

it's it's, and you know, it's hard to say because yeah, you would, I think if you were to pick the, the exactly how it was going to go the next six Ryder Cups, then that would mean that it's all going to go unbelievably well. And you, you know, you know how it's going to happen. And you wouldn't be changing anything. So I think that's part of the reason of it is like, I mean, I know that was a big thing for all of us is we're like, why rush this?

Like, I know that this is maybe when we've put out the captain the last X amount of Ryder Cups, but like, what's the point of us rushing this to get maybe the person that we don't think is right just to meet a deadline of you guys wanting to get a press release out. Like what's more important here? And I think that's something that Jordan and I both are trying to bring to that side of it. And especially after Roman talking to every player on the team is like, all right, guys, like, what do we need to

do differently? What do we need to do better? What, what, what's everybody's opinions on things? And it's all just like, look, like we just want to, we want to, like I said earlier, we want to be in the best place for success possible. And however that is done, it doesn't need to be by the book or whatever we've done in past. Like we just need to do what we need to do. And that's it. All protein bars generally taste the same, but not one bars. One made protein bars that are actually delicious with Reese's and Hershey's. Only one Reese's peanut butter lovers protein bars made with Reese's peanut butter. Only one Hershey's. Only one Reese's Peanut Butter Lover's Protein Bar is made with Reese's Peanut Butter. Only one Hershey's Cookies and Cream

Protein Bar is made with Hershey's Cookie Bits. Each co-branded bar delivers 18 grams of protein and 3 grams of sugar. One also has other delicious flavors like birthday cake, maple glazed donut and blueberry cobbler which contain 20 grams of protein and 1 gram of sugar. One bar is the perfect protein bar to get you through a busy day. Whether you need a quick pickup between meetings or just need some fuel to power you through your workout, one bars are the perfect treat. Find all

one bars at a retailer near you or visit amazon.com. Back to the pod. I was trying to work this in when we were talking about your game earlier, but I wanted to ask you about ball speed and kind of distance overall on tour. And I have a few stats here. In 2017, you were 29th on tour at 175.7. You have gotten 1.8 miles an hour faster on average. You're 1.775 now, which is now 50th.

You've gotten faster and gone from 29th to 50th. Xander's up, Rory's up. Obviously people are familiar with what Bryson has done. It's everything's turning that way. Have you gotten caught up at all in chasing ball speed and do you see value in that? Is that something that do you feel like you're losing ground now out on tour? Do you feel like not one of the longest hitters anymore?

I'm curious kind of your journey on that because obviously it can lead to a lot of different paths but I'm curious how your approach is on that. I think I did a little bit in the in that COVID area of like the of trying to hit it further. But yeah, I'm not I'm definitely not very much faster or really hit the ball much further than than like you just said seven years ago. But I do have the ability to hit it 10 or 15 yards further in the air if I need to now that I think I didn't have before.

And for me, I would much rather hit two more fairways around or have my, if you want to call it distance from the center of the fairway, be closer and not gain that much distance versus gaining a certain, there's obviously, this is way past my pay grade in terms of smartness, but there's gonna be some point there where it's like one would be more beneficial than the other, but I feel like to my game and my strengths

of an iron player, a good iron player, hitting the fairway more and getting that is more important than gaining more distance. And I think especially with my training, I've been a knock on wood. I've done a great job of staying injury free. And that's the most important thing to me while gaining distance and hitting it way further is cool. And maybe having huge muscles is something that like people what they like to feel subconsciously for them. But you know, playing I can play this game till I'm 5055 years old at a really high level. So, you know, chasing that and the weight room in other ways might

not be the best idea for that, in my opinion. See, I'm not one of the best iron players in the world. So I'm chasing distance right now. I've got it. I'm not accurate. So I might as well be longer and not accurate. It's after talking to Stephen Yeager about his approach got it. I'm not accurate. So I might as well be longer and not accurate. After talking to Stephen Yeager about his approach to it. I'm like, you just described it. I played with I played with Yeager Bay Hill first time in a while. And it was it was like a typical like a proper hard day

at Bay Hill where it was pretty windy and like the first four holes are you know, downwind with two being a part three. And he steps on one, which is a pretty hard tee shot and just full left foot and just was like, damn, he's going pretty hard at that. And then we get on three, same thing, left foot fully back, the hardest he can hit it. And I was like, wow, okay, you must just be doing these holes. And then he gets a four par five. I obviously knew he was going to do it, does it there, next hole hits like an iron. And then we get to like six

We get to eight we get to nine to all these holes that are like you got a thread of needle and he's just Smashing it and I just went up to his caddy. I was like what the hell is going on He is swings I don't I don't ever play with someone that I feel like swings harder than I do and but he was driving the piss out Of it. So I was like hey power to you, dude He said he got so much more accurate. He hit it better, not just longer. His swing got better, the harder he swung out of it. Driver, it's like, gosh, that's a heck of an approach. But there's been, obviously, Scottie's had just a ridiculous heater of a year. Xander is obviously now trending

on the heater and won two majors this year. They've done it in different ways, but you've been on massive heaters. But what do you see out of these two? Number one and won two majors this year. They've done it in different ways, but you've been on massive heaters, but what do you see out of these two? Number one and number two in the world. Kind of what's it like to watch your peers? I know you wanna beat these guys a ton, but I'm kind of wondering, what are you able to appreciate

about that along the way as well? Well, I've always felt like, and this is not a disrespect to Xander at all, but like I felt like he has been like the most, I don't underachieved probably isn't the right thing to say, but I feel like he has not, he had not won as many tournaments as the quality of his game. Like every time I played with him since the first time I played with him in like 2016 or 17 was like, holy shit, like this guy's really good at everything.

And like the thing about Xander that I think his demeanor is arguably the best on tour. I think he stays so level-headed and he just grinds and like salvages away and finds a way to get in contention or finds a way to make cuts and then back door in top tens. And it's little things like that, that while, you know, a lot of people would prefer the career of winning, you know, two, three, four times in a year and having five missed cuts, but like that stuff builds confidence. And confidence is something that I don't think anybody can necessarily just go out on the range or just flip a switch and they're more confident.

And I think Scotty and Xander have so much faith and confidence in their abilities that they just, they're better at staying present and staying in the moment and playing the course for what it is better than anybody else right now. And I think it's really hard to play well when everybody expects you to play well, and they continue to do it. And I think that is, that's the part that at least for me, it has been in past and still is at times is playing well with those expectations. And they're clearly in a great place mentally and in a good headspace to be able to do that. What do you, I mean, their profiles are different. Xander is an incredible putter.

He's really underrated as a putter and I don't think people, you know, he's such a good ball striker that I think people maybe don't notice that as well. Maybe it sticks out a little bit more because Scottie is not known as a great putter, but his ball striking this season has been just like truly unparalleled. I mean, we all knew he was a very capable player, but like, what is it like to watch somebody hit the ball with that level of consistency? I mean, again, I'm kind of out of ways

to describe what that's like. So I'm just kind of looking for your perspective on like, yo, I mean, he's a really good player two years ago, but he wasn't like this. It wasn't this good. Can it get even better? Kind of what's your reaction to what he's been able to do? And this might be a crazy thing to say,

but I'm gonna say it. I think that, I think Scottie is a better driver than he might be an iron player. Like it's absurd how good he drives the ball. And the way that stats work, which is statistically is how he's kind of breaking all of these records or doing all of these things. You're just, your bad shots are going to be so much better from the fairway than

they are the rough. Like you don't have that. He's not going to have that, um, time where he's got to chip out twice around because he hits it way offline. And then that's a terrible statistic to, to that, like, because it's Because he hits so many fairways and he hits it far and his bad drives are barely missing fairways that he can always get it around the green or on the green. When you're such a good iron player like he is and you're hitting 10 to 12 fairways around, you're essentially guaranteeing yourself at the worst, like 12 birdie putts, and a lot of times probably 14 to 16.

So it's obviously his iron play is unbelievable, but every time I play with him, I'm like, this guy does not get anywhere enough credit for his driving. Like he drives it so good, it's wild. There was a time period, it may have expired now, but I looked over the last three, six, and nine months. He was the best driver, the best

iron player and the best chipper, like all three of those, like it just legitimately seems unfair, like in of that level. And that's what, you know, it wasn't like I heard a lot of people two years ago, like peers of his or somebody like you being like, Oh, wait, wait till this guy figures it all out. Right? It's just been this leap that like, means one of the best players in the world two years ago, but now to be like this clear cut is just it's kind of

shocking, man. Yeah, I joke with with Strix. And what I guess it would have been 2021. When Ryder Cup, you know, when you had the whole COVID year, and we're all sitting in Atlanta, like going through the who we want the captain's picks to be and what we're thinking. And it was kind of, it basically got down to the point of like between Scotty and Sam, you know, we're like two best friends and it was like, who,

who does everybody think and going around the room and everybody, every single person was like, we can't go wrong with either one of these guys. Like they're, they're both great. They're great for different reasons. They bring everything to the table in terms of having a teammate, whatever. But at the end, I mean, Strick obviously wants an answer and a perfect world of like who between them. And I was like, I mean, to be honest, I was like, Scotty hadn't won yet. I was like, Sam has won. And he like maybe one of the best putting strokes and setups of a putter I've ever seen. And I was like, so I mean, if I had to

choose, I was like, I'd probably choose him. And then, like every once in a while after Scotty wins, I'm like, Hey, remember when I told you that Sam was probably better? And I was like, did you somehow tell him this? And he got really pissed off or something. But so that's all joke was strict about that. Sometimes I'm like, damn, as good call me, Sam's an unbelievable player. And Scottie's made him look like, like nobody always made everybody look like nobody. That's the crazy

act like that. Last time you're on which we somehow missed it. We didn't do our pod last year. I don't know if I was afraid to call you because you weren't playing well. Last time you're on was like the height of the live stuff. It was an emotional time, you know, I would say a lot of the tension seems to have died down a little bit. And I have a two part question here. What's your what's your gut feeling like when you see live guys at majors?

Obviously, your guts when you're gonna, you know, get in touch with them now. What's your feeling like? And two, is that a different feeling based on whether or not that person was one of the people that sued the PGA tour? No, it's not. I would say my feeling toward them is just, is honestly kind of it is who they are. Like I don't, it sounds bad to say, but there's, there's plenty of guys that are on Live or went to Live that I wasn't like, we weren't, we didn't hate each other or we didn't bash each other, but like I wasn't friends or friendly with that person. I didn't hang out with that person. So it wasn't like a thing of like,

oh, now I'm really going to ignore the person. I'm like, no, now I'm still not going to talk to this. Like if I didn't talk to him before, like I'm probably not going to start now. And then there's guys that I would see down here, whatever that I just, I'd say, Hey, and catch up whatever when I saw him. But to me, it just was more the guys that wouldn't stop talking when they just really didn't need to kind of thing or when they didn't need to be talking. stop talking when they just really didn't need to kind of thing, or when they didn't need to be talking. And just saying things that were just so egregious and didn't really

make sense that I'm just like, it's like I've, I, yeah, I got, I got nothing for that. So I didn't, wasn't exactly going out of my way for for some. Well, I remember you saying, you know, like, you've back in I think this was June 2022, when we talked about you were just like, I've spent like, just way too much time like of my I'd never imagined I'd be spending this much of my own brain power thinking about a league that I'm not even like playing it right. And did that like, what kind of effect did that have on on you personally, like professionally, right? Just not ignoring what's happening

all in the golf world. But like, golf world got up ended, you know, there was a lot of people took a lot of flack from a lot of different people in a lot of different ways. If you stood up and said something, blah, blah, blah, people, you know, roasted you online or whatever that might be like, what kind of effect did that have on you professionally? I think it did more at first because like we had said, I was very wrapped up in and I was like, I felt like I needed to like check every day what was going on, who's the rumor, who's leaving? I mean, you know, the amount of texts I sent you, I'm like, is this true? Like, is this person really? And it's like, as we, we eventually found out that just the outlandish things that were being thrown around in terms of rumors and, and kind of whoever or whatever it was to get those kind of conversations going for attention was

eventually we all or I shouldn't say all but most of us got smart enough to not really give it any time a day but I was there for a little bit and it just was like who cares? I mean it is what it is and it's the unfortunate reality at that time and at the end of the day like if I'm not playing well, whether this tour is happening or not like I'm still not playing well so I need to play better or play well and still win tournaments and instead of being worried about this thing that I realistically don't have any control over unless it's something that I wanted to be a part of, which I didn't. So yeah, I've eventually learned to stop giving at the time of day. Has anything changed for you personally since SSG has come on the scene?

And what will change as far as golf fans are concerned, entertainment product wise and just kind of personally, did that help kind of calm any uncertainties or any ill feelings some of the guys had about how things had played out? I don't know. Like I said, I tried to, and I still am just not keeping my distance, but just kind of letting it play out. There's literally people that tour players and lawyers and businessmen, whatever that are there for that reason to handle all of that. I just, I think I finally, I don't know when it was, but just got to the point and understanding and although it sucks and do I think it's entirely fair?

No, but just understand that it just is for the best. If the sooner that we are all playing together and they're back, the better it is for golf. And like it sucks because they're going, yeah. The fact of the amount of money that they, some of the guys got paid that myself and my peers, if this was to happen very well, could have had the exact same thing. Yeah, of course that sucks. But it just, it is what it is. Like

there's just got to, had to kind of swallow my pride on that and get over it. I've just like, look, it's, everybody is better off. Especially the game of golf and fans and everything if we're all together. Like it just was, and it was something I think that's, you know, the hardest to admit is when, especially if you've been so strong and adamant about something and I still have the same feelings of some certain things. But the one thing that, yeah, that is just like, look, if and when it happens, like it sucks, it is what it is. But let's just move on. And let's play golf. And as long as the game of golf is in the best place possible, then like, whatever, so be it.

Yeah, it's kind of like, I look, I wish we weren't in this spot. But what's the best we can make from here is clearly this thing, right. And I know it's not it's an uphill battle with some people that are both in charge of some of these decisions. And you know, just otherwise, otherwise just out on tour of being needing to be convinced that that, you know, guys should be able to come back if they want to come back and what that even looks like. That's the whole thing. I've honestly stopped asking you guys about it. Because if you do know, nobody's really saying anything about what's going on. But I still don't think people know what's really going on. Correct me if I'm wrong, you may have a lot more information from recent weeks or months, but I've kind of stopped digging on it, and it's kind of like, we're just sitting in wait,

until somebody can explain to me what the tournament structure's gonna be like, you can sign some papers, I'm sure we'll hear about a deal, you know, something, we'll hear about something like that way before we hear about what the actual structure of competitive golf looks like, which is what I care about, right? And I think it's like, what you're saying is, that's what I have to focus on as well, or I have to focus on what is in front of me, and I can't get overly distracted by some of this stuff.

and why that is is because initially when I felt all of these things, there was a scenario where it, they, they just didn't have enough people to have, to take away some of the fans necessarily from the PGA tour. And now that, you know, if I have just a little trickle effect and enough people and enough big names have gone that it's just, it's a thing now. Whereas like maybe in the beginning, it wasn't as much of a thing when I've really started feeling these things the way that I was and did. But it is, it's just

like we're not a big enough sport to lose our most marketable people or some of our most marketable people and just think that everything is going to continue to be the same and great. When if we just added those very marketable people back, how would it not be better for us? It's like, yeah, it sucks. But it's just it's not the way it was when this first happened first started. Like there's been trickle effect to where it's just it's a different it's a different situation. It's well said. And it's just, it's a different, it's a different situation.

It's well said and it's very, very different. What I I've heard about is some increased energy, if you will, about like, all right, upping the entertainment factor of the game amongst fellow pros in terms of knowing kind of what this, now that you have an ownership interest in PGA tour and PGA tour Enterprises, guys feeling a bit more like some ideas percolating on how they can make golf more entertaining for

us golf fans. Have you gotten any kind of insight into that or kind of any ideas as to where this is coming from? I think, yeah, I think a little bit of it, and that could have something to do with it too, of it. And that could be have something to do with it too, of guys. And it's like, Hey, you know, like with being literal part owners of the tour, if, you know, if, if it's a better product and more people are involved in, like that's, yeah, we might be pissed off that some people are playing, but like, it's better for us. So like, you can, you can try and justify it. You know,

sometimes like, um, the golfers, as you know, we like to like reason everything. Like, we need to get, it's like, you see someone, you're like, Oh, you got a new putter and they have to like give you this long explanation as to why they're using that putter when it's like, dude, I just wanted to see your putter. Like, I don't need that. I don't need you to tell me everything why. But so I think that some people could kind of use that as like a way to help them rationalize some things.

I was more thinking in terms of just like the walk-in talks, like people are saying, people are saying yes to things, right? And you like, you're always participating in content of all kinds and whatnot, promoting your product of, you know, as a pro, but sometimes it can be difficult. Even booking guests for the show can be difficult, booking people for videos

Like getting people getting pros to do things I know you guys get asked to do a ton of things but just in talking with some of the guys that seem like hey We've got some decent ideas flowing on like how we can make how we can make pro golf rise as a whole. I Yeah, I think in terms of like specific ideas I at least to my knowledge there's nothing that's like Yeah, like oh, okay, these couple are good. But I think something that's hard for a lot of people to swallow, especially the big part of the age demographic of fans of golf is nobody wants that change. Nobody wants anything to be different. It has to be this, the tournaments start on this day,

they end on this day. You know that this is the order of these events and this happens then. And it's like the thought of something being different. It's like that's like, oh no, we can't do that. We've never done that before. It's like, well, like, yeah, but you know, changing the tour championship format. It's like, okay, like we can do a lot of things to get that tournament with way more, way more people there, way more people interested in watching it, way more people involved to where, okay, well, if that change is something that maybe we're not comfortable with within reason, obviously, you don't want something that's like making us look stupid or dumb out there. But if that's what we have to do, then that's what we have to do. And I think you see that in other sports of, like the playing tournament, I'm sure guys were like, that's so stupid,

but look at the attention that it drew in the middle of their season, both with fans and on TV and both in person. So it's, I think little things like that where we could potentially get creative to come up with some good stuff that would be helpful. in person. So it's, I think little things like that where we could potentially get creative to, to come up with some good stuff that would be helpful. 100%. I'm in favor of a mulligan, a mulligan token or a card. Every player every week or however many weeks a year gets one mulligan for the week and they use it whenever they want. But they,

but they can to use the mulligan. That, that'd be intense. I have no use the ball again. That'd be intense. I have no notes on that one. That'd be incredible. You might have to like, then, you know, somebody shoots 59, then they gotta put a whole new asterisk on that whole page. Can't happen, Justin. You can't think outside the box, okay?

You can't do that. It's not how we've always done it. See, too much change. Can't do it. Oh, start over. You've dipped your toe into a new element of golf court of golf. In general golf course design Panther National. Remind me is it open open? I know it's it's at least okay,

full time open. Tell me about this place and what your involvements have been like what you've learned there. Yeah, yeah, it opened up in November. It's it's I mean, I guess it's closed right now for a couple of months, like a lot of the places down here in the summer just for some maintenance stuff, as you know, it's very typical South Florida, but it's, yeah, it was really cool. They're making a couple tweaks to couple the holes in the golf course that just could change to make a little bit different but just better. And I think that's something that both the initial process of watching Jack kind of go through everything

on the first steps of designing the course for its original state, if you will, and then kind of when we were going through this, some changes and he wanted me to be very involved in changes, just like any change that he made to the course initially. And it's just little things here and there that, you know, where it's like, well, we have members that are that really don't like this and, and feel like it all runs this way. And Jack's like, it's been open six months. Like just, like you don't even know how it's, like give it some time. Like there's some things that needed to be changed

that were changed, but then there's little things where people are so quick to be like, no, no, you can't do. It's like, it just like, relax. Like you need, you haven't even played it long enough to see how it plays and how it's going to, once it fully grows in, once the green run like this, the slopes do whatever. So, you know, little things like that. I would have, I would have initially thought that, oh, that needs to be changed for sure. But that's not the

case for everything. You know, you kind of need to see it's way, way too small of a sample size to make big changes. But it's really cool. It was really cool to watch how his mind worked and works and kind of watch it go throughout its stages kind of thing. What was your role in it? I mean, what are you, you know, are you the pro consultant on it? Are you designing the back tees? Are you kind of, how would you describe your role?

I mean, I would, I mean, co-designer, I guess it's what I am and was listed at, that it just a, but I obviously did not know near enough of designing a course and what it takes to be taking the lead on anything. I think it was very much a, you know, we're looking at this, how's this looking? And I mean, the range and the par three course,

I feel like I had a lot of say in in terms of how to make it functional and make it great for both everyday users, but professionals and guys that wanna use it to like practice and train. But just I feel, and Jack is obviously very opinionated in terms of the distance and little things here and there, but I still, I know how the game is played now, you know, better and differently, I would say than he does just from obviously

playing. So I was able to bring a side of that to where he's like, you know, hey, we have this here and we have this bunker here and there. Like, what do you think about that? And I'm, you know, I don't know, where's the prevailing wind? What is that? It's like, okay, well, if it gets downwind, like this bunkers 310 yards, like I'm shipping it over this thing every single time. So like you need to Okay, then you'd move it, you know, bat and move it back and change it little things here

and there. So yeah, I did more than I thought I was going to do, but I also very much knew my position and role that I was observing and I was helping in any and every way that I could. Well, I'm guessing there's probably maybe 80 to 90% of designing a golf course is all like, drainage, like all this stuff that's you know, you know, what the the actual grading of the slope, you don't know the exact percentage that it should be for it to play. So

you know how it should play, but you don't know the details of how all that stuff would work. So I'm guessing but you know, it sounds like that that's the part that, you know, but actual design stuff, I could see where what you're talking about right there, you'd have a big impact on. Yeah, like the the tent hole was just a dog like laugh to big fairways are it's totally different than anything in Florida. Fairways are very big, a lot of undulation, they moved

a lot of dirt, but big fairway in the green sits up and you can't see the surface of the green and we're out there one day, Jack says, Well, we need to move the green at an angle. And again, I just kind of sitting there and listening and they're like, okay, well, we'll do that. And everything he did both changed himself and asked me, he would ask if I understood that or what I thought of it. And he's like, do you know why I'm doing that? I was like, no, I have absolutely no idea.

He's like, well, when you're hitting up to an elevated green like that, and you can't see the surface, if the green is facing the same way, you have no idea where He's like, well, when you're hitting up to an elevated green like that, and you can't see the surface, if the green is facing the same way, you have no idea where the pin is. If you put it in an angle like that, when you're playing, you remember whatever you're playing, you know where the pin is based on what side of the green it's on. So if the pins on the right, you know, it's on the back because of how it's tilted. And then if it's, you know, middle, middle, left

on front, so it's like something like that I never would have thought of or never would have known but when you design a bazillion golf courses you you very much know that. Is it 8 000 yards from the tips I heard or something like that? Oh yeah I didn't have anything to do with that. I don't I was gonna say it sounds like a video of going to play for the tips. Yeah, I don't play the back on a lot of holes. What about I don't know if we ever talked about where SPF this is Can you kind of take us on on your journey with that and kind of what that's meant to

you. It's definitely been a huge passion project and I had a I've had some moles taken off and my parents were good about having me go get checked in like high school, middle school, high school, college. And in 2019, I went and got checked and I had just a tiny mole on my back of my left calf. And I asked the doctor to look at it just because I can. It looked a little different. I had had enough taken off that I understood that and, and yeah, and ended up being melanoma and which is a what is a 26 year old, that's a pretty, you don't really know a whole

lot about melanoma other than it's bad. And, and after then getting it taken out, and the doctor telling me everything was fine, and I was probably three or four months away from being a patient in the hospital, like that hospital. That's pretty alarming. Going to dermatologists anywhere, let alone in South Florida, you don't see a lot of other 26 and 27-year-olds. The average age seems to be about 80, 85 when you go in there. It's something I think a lot of people my age don't think that they need to do when it's serious, it's real.

When you're out in the sun all the time and wearing sunscreen and just washing your skin, it was making a great situation out of a huge scare for me and more of it is just to help raise awareness and tell people to just go get checked so they don't have a bad incident like what almost happened to me. A hundred percent layer up people, rub it in, spray it everywhere, get it. It's especially if you live in Florida, man, there's no messing around with that at all. I know. And I just recently got a mole taken off like two months ago. The first one I've had taken off since then.

And it was wild how different I thought about it versus the other ones. I was like, ah, yeah, I got a couple of had taken off since then. And it was wild how different I thought about it versus the other ones. I was like, oh yeah, I got a couple of them I was taking off, whatever. But it was like the one, I mean, I was like, when are you gonna be calling? When are these results gonna be in? I'm like, what's happening?

And it was right before I left for the Scottish in the open. I'm like, what happens if it's bad? Like, do I need to not leave and all this stuff? So it definitely got my attention and rightfully so. What's the next couple of weeks look like for you? You are the king of when you got time off man you are chilling. What's going on? What's chilling at home look like this phase of your life? Yeah not much just man I feel like we've been gone so much that that stretch there kind of what was it like

PGA kind of through travelers was was a wild one. We'll go we'll hang here a couple more days and then I'll Jill and Jill and I will go to our place in Tennessee probably and hang out there some and I'll play in practice just to get ready for the playoffs and yeah I, I mean, it's funny, after even coming back from Ireland, getting back last night, I was already kind of today like, I wonder if I should maybe go out and hit a couple of balls, but I'm forcing myself to stay away.

So I'm just, I'm really going to be, you know, kind of hitting the gym hard, trying to eat, get really rested, hydrated, because it's a big a big big couple weeks And a really hot couple weeks. So just making sure I'm you know mentally and Physically in the best shape I can because that's you know, that could end up being half the battle more than anything 100% Well, appreciate you spending some time with us fresh off the trip I thought you'd want to punt this down the road farther away from just traveling back internationally yesterday

I think you said you were so yeah, it's good. It probably kept me from napping on the couch. I thought you'd want to punt this down the road farther away from just traveling back internationally yesterday. I think you said you were so Yeah, it's good. It probably kept me from napping on the couch. So I appreciate that. I thought that might be a good thing. So appreciate your time as always JT best luck with the remainder of the year. I'll see at some point down the road. I'm sure I'm left to get out and we're supposed to at some point we're supposed to shoot a video. We got to get out and get out and do that.

This fall. It's a little better to play golf in the fall 100% so alright, buddy. Appreciate your time. do that. This fall, it's a little better to play golf in the fall. 100%. All right, buddy. Appreciate your time. Take care. I mean, for Fandl must be 21 or older, 18 or older in D.C. and President-Select states Fandl is offering online sports waging in Kansas under an agreement with Kansas Star Casino LLC.

Gamble problem called 1-800-GAMBLER. Visit Fandl.com slash RG in Colorado, D.C., Iowa, Michigan, New Jersey, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Kentucky, Tennessee, Virginia and Vermont. Call 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 in Arizona, 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut, 1-800-9 with it in Indiana, 1-800-522-4700. Visit ksgamblinghelp.com in Kansas, 1-877-7700. Stop in Louisiana, visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland, visit 1-800-GAMBLER.NET in West Virginia or call 1-800-522-4700 in Wyoming. Hope is here.

Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-Y or text HOPE-Y in New York.