No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - 920: Offseason Chop Session - PGA Tour Eligibility Changes, Neil visits TPI, and a Gary Player Surprise

Episode Date: November 4, 2024

With no PGA Tour event this week we've got a bit of a topical grab bag on this weekend's recap pod. We start with a look at the proposed changes to the PGA Tour qualification system or, as TC has named it, the Mule Replacement Program. We also cover Neil and TC's trip to the Titleist Performance Institute, a new rapid-fire E-9 segment with some assorted news and notes and we close with KVV digging into a rumored Gary Player story about an interaction with a young child at the Masters in honor of GP celebrating his 89th birthday. If you enjoyed this episode, consider joining The Nest: No Laying Up’s community of avid golfers. Nest members help us maintain our light commercial interruptions (3 minutes of ads per 90 minutes of content) and receive access to exclusive content, discounts in the pro shop, and an annual member gift. It’s a $90 annual membership, and you can sign up or learn more at nolayingup.com/join Support Our Partners: Titleist Holderness and Bourne Pinehurst Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Be the right club. Be the right club today. That's better than most. How about the end? That is better than most. Better than most! Expect anything different. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No Laying Up podcast. My name is DJ. Thrilled to be with you tonight for an offseason episode. I am joined by the Carter brothers, the Schuster brothers, whatever you like to call them by. TC, Tron Carter, how are you?

Uh, whatever you like to call them by TC Tron Carter. How are you? I'm great. I'm absolutely buzzing after that Jags Eagles game. It's like, that was why I watched football. That was, it was awesome. Speaking of ball knowers, we've got his younger brother. The merges are Neil Schuster, uh, also coming to us from the big city marathon day, I hear up there marathon day in the city.

Yeah. A great day. Fantastic. Good energy in the city. DJ, I'm sorry about your Packers, but fired up to be with you guys and happy daylight savings time. First time as a father. It sucks. And also with you. All right, guys. Later in the show, we're going to be celebrating moments of joy brought to you by a partner who knows a little bit something about joy. Foot joy, the official shoe, glove, and outerwear partner of No Laying Up. Wherever, whenever, and however golf has played, one thing is for certain, most players will be wearing Footjoy shoes.

This is true everywhere, including this year's NEST Invitational Tournament, where over half the field trusted their game to Footjoy. I love that we have a shoe count from the NIT. That's big time stuff. When it matters most, players choose FootJoy for their commitment to comfort, style, and innovation. Feel the joy with FootJoy. Boys, it is November 3rd as we sit here. There is no PGA Tour event this week. Many people

may be saying, why am I even listening to this podcast? There's one this week. Well, there was no PGA Tour event this past week. But you know what? We've made our bones on, you know, we would barely even talk about competitive golf on this show anymore. I feel like it's all moving parts and qualifications, regulations, who's merging with who. So, I mean, I feel like honestly, this episode's going to be kind of perfect.

We're going to talk a little bit LPGA was in Japan. We are going to talk, the PGA Tour made some sweeping eligibility changes or proposed some sweeping eligibility changes to be voted on. We will talk about that. We're going to talk about the Carter brothers going to TPI, the Titleist Performance Institute, kind of like going to Willy Wonka's factory out there in Southern California. Can't wait to pick your guys' brains about that. And we got a couple segues. I'm filling in for Sall in for Sally. Sally is waiting with bated breath as he and his lovely bride, you know, prepare to welcome twins into the world. So, you know, I cooked up a couple other things. We've got a segment called the E9 that I'm going to lead.

And then we're going to do a little bit of housekeeping. We're going to talk about our week in golf. And then we've got KVV closing it out the ninth inning with something I'm just going to call one for the road. I just told them to dig in KVV, go find some Gary player stories and we're going to shut down the bottom of the ninth with that. So T.C. let me any occasion for the Gary players? Yes. It was Gary players 89th birthday. Yes. Good question. Thank you for tracking my train of thought there. I had to tie that in. I didn't, I didn't catch a lot of it. Daylight savings time. As you said, Neil, I'm wrestling for my life in those wee hours of the morning. So I'm just not watching a lot of LPGA golf, but it sounds like I kind of missed a banger a little bit. You did. You did. It was, uh, I think it was, I think it was a good question.

I think it was a good question. I think it was a good question. I think it was a good question. I think it was a good question. I think it was a good question. I think it was a good question. I think it was a good question. I think it was a good question.

I think it was a good question. I think it was a good question. I think it was a good question. I think it was a good question. I think it the morning. So I'm just not watching a lot of LPGA golf, but it sounds like I kind of missed a banger a little bit. You did. You did. It was, well, it was shortened to 54 holes due to a typhoon. Do we know the name of the typhoon? I might have to get it out. Please let me know if you get it, because that's, you know, weather.

Overall, the LPGA has been mostly lucky with weather this season. But Rio Takeda won in a six-hole playoff over our friend Marina Alex. Marina's kind of starting to stack up some good finishes. She's back, I think, and played really, really well today. She had 66 today. Rio just played better. You know, I think they both birdied the first playoff hole and then Rio birdied the sixth playoff hole to win it. So, hey Ron, you finished one shot out of the playoff. You leave me no finished T4. And after a couple of pretty rancid years by her standards, she like, she was a, I think she was a Solheim Cup member a few years ago. And she's been just in the wilderness. She's kind of back. She's had a really, ago and she's been just in the wilderness.

She's kind of back. She's had a really, really good last five to six months or so. And LPGA is in Hawaii this coming week. They've been in Asia for the last month or so. Hawaii this week and then they go to the game bridge down in the greater Tampa Bay area down in Braidenton, Minnesota. Pelican. Pelican.

We had a Pelican and then they go to the CME down in Naples for their tour championship. greater Tampa Bay area. And then, uh, and then they go to the CME down in Naples for their tour. Champions were coming. I was going to say it's getting crunch time on the, on the LPGA. So, uh, Typhoon Kong Ray was the name. So wish everybody Kong Ray. Yeah. K O N G a hyphen R E Y. So wish everybody, a safe passage on that one. Can I just say something? I'm a massive fan of Toto products. Is that right?

Yes. Yeah. Well, no, more so the bidets. When I worked at Google, they had the like, well, I wasn't until I worked there. Kind of intimidating. But they had like the automated version with like flow, gauges, you know, like you can really, you know, a lot of, a lot of bells and whistles. Anyway, apparently in Japan they have some like high level stuff

over there. Yeah. Yeah. Like Ferraris of toilets. Yeah. So just a shout out there. Guys, personal story here. I went over for a few weeks, I think my junior year of high school to Salamanca, Spain, stayed with a host family and I got there and I was wondering for the first four or five days, what is this second toilet in the bathroom? Crouching now to wash your hands? What am I supposed to do here? Sure enough, found out it was a bidet. You wash your tush with it.

It's speaking of the tush, the tush push unsuccessful. Yeah. I think I would vote for more wide sweeping appeal of the bidets after dipping my toe in on a trip to Korea a long time ago, but we can take that. Thus concludes our coverage of the Toto Japan. Take that over the refuge. Yeah. We can dive back in on that on another day. Guys, main story tonight, we're going to talk about TC. I know you've been trying to you've been looking to fly the banner on this one. The PGA Tour has proposed eligibility changes that basically a set of proposed qualification changes for its field that if approved could take

effect in 2026. I would recommend everybody who is interested go look at mondayq.com. Ryan French published the entire email that kind of went out to a bunch of PJ Tour members and high level what this means or what we're talking about here is essentially shrinking the game. Isn't that right TC? Yeah, it's the mule replacement program. To break to get down into some of the specifics.

It means a bunch of things will kind of go one at a time. Smaller fields at most tournaments, right? I mean, that's that's kind of the big headline here is most fields. Most full field events are going to be trimmed to between 120 and 144 players. So a lot of the 156 player fields are just going to straight up get smaller. We can talk for some of the about some of the reasons behind this. Fully exempt status is going to change on the PGA Tour.

As you know, in the past, that has always been the top 125 players on tour are fully exempt. That's now could become only the top 100. The number of Corn Fairy tour cards is going to be reduced from 30 to 20. Monday qualifiers, they're taking a machete to those. Likely. Everybody's getting a little hair. All right. All the stakeholders except for- Everyone's making sacrifices guys.

The best players. But the best players, that's not like some, you know, cohort that's predetermined. Like that's just whoever placed on. Yeah. So Monday qualifiers likely going from four to two spots for most of the full field events, events with 120, 120 players or less. Monday qualifiers would likely go away completely the restricted sponsor exemptions. So this is basically sponsor exemptions that come from different categories. This is where you see a lot of past champion type guys that get in, not necessarily the Tony Romo, Steph Curry, unrestricted sponsor exemptions, but the restricted sponsor exemptions, which are the guys who are in the field.

You don't really know how they got in type of things. Those are going to be reduced. I'm sorry. Those be eliminated completely and they'll just go to the next eligible player on the priority ranking. And then that be the college kids too, like at the Memorial when they invite the Those are unrestricted. Yeah, those are the unrestricted ones. Restricted are like JB Holmes or Josh Teeter or you know, somebody who's like 148th on the FedEx cup from the previous year.

Okay. And then the final change that all of this kind of like shakes out to is basically FedEx cup points are the distribution of FedEx points is going to narrow a little bit. So right now, you know, things are very lopsided with the signature events. You finished 19th at a signature event and you get a lot more points than if you finished 19th at a non-signature event. That gap is going to be closed a little bit. So meaning like the top guys can't run and hide quite as much just based on pure signature

events. So there's a lot that goes into this. There's a lot of reasons why it happened. But TC, I'm going to start with you. Just initial thoughts on the changes, big picture thoughts, opening statements. Yeah. I think, A, I think it's sad that the tour has to use pace of play to kind of get this through. I was going to say they pin this on daylight savings time, TC.

Yeah. That was my big takeaway too. It's like a whole page of like, yeah, it's guys. It's just not on the daylight. I'm sorry. Which, and they're doing that and also de-fanging some of the pace of play penalties as well, which feels really, really off. So the fact that they can't just be serious and enforce the rules and figure out a better way to, you know, hey, like actually penalize some guys or make the dollar amounts bigger for the penalties, all of that. But overall, I think the 125 has always been an arbitrary number, right? 125 tour cards or 156 guys in a field. And I don't think that, you know, knocking 12 guys off, like we've said, there's

too many tour cards out there. They can't properly service this many members. And that's kind of, I think it's right sizing the tour. And I know that sounds like a private equity term, which I'm sure some of that is, is involved here. But I'm just amazed at how much they were able to get done. Like I know the, the still needs to get approved November 18th, but I don't think they would have proposed this if they didn't have the votes on the pack. The points stuff needed to happen. It's more about that fatty middle of a second place now will be the same as it was prior, but it's that 11th through 24th that was really getting too big for the riches, just feeding at the

FedExCup points trough there. Everybody's kind of taking a haircut. I think they probably could have gone farther or further as well. There's still some entitlement reform out there. There's still the top 25 and top 50 money list guys that they get their one time. If you're on the top 25 or top 50 of the career money, you get basically a free year. And then there's the same thing with 300 cuts made. If you've had 300 cuts made, I guess the DP World Tour guys didn't get a haircut either. All 10 guys who weren't otherwise eligible will still get cards there.

And then I feel like some of the Monday qualifier stuff, like there's Monday qualifiers. They're not going away. Some of them are going away, but there's- A number of spots are going away. I don't think there needs to be four. Yeah. There's two spots instead of four in certain spots. For some of the bigger events, they're going away.

So overall, I don't know. They're making it tougher to keep your tour card. Overall, I don't think the churn should be... I've been texting with a few people, DMing with a few people. I don't think the churn is going to change drastically. I think it went from 25% or 24% to 22% this last year. And I think the aim is to keep the churn at the same percentage year over year. So I'm all for it. I think let's move some of these mules off to the side and make some room for the new blood.

Neil, you have any initial thoughts from seeing this? Well, reading through the letter, I thought it was actually a strong move to root it in, like I was making a joke about daylight or pace of play, but the stat that stuck out to be 28% of tournaments in 2024 had at least one round that didn't finish due to darkness. Like that's too high of a number. And they presented a graph and some stats about the changes from like, so they go in waves at the biggest tournaments off of the front and back off of one and 10 and it's 13, you know, groups and and back not off of one and Ten and it's thirteen, you know groups and dropping that to twelve groups will you know make a massive difference

So basically you're you're losing in like four groups. It sounds like right four groups of three like twelve guys From the morning wave for a lot of events just to kind of give an overview. So Sony will go from $144 to $120. Farmers $156 to $144. Phoenix $132 to $120. Players $144 to $120, which I think is interesting and probably should have been done a while ago anyways. Valspar $144 to $132. And then you go after daylight savings, Canadian Open, Rocket Mortgage, John Deere, I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point.

I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point.

I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point.

I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a, you gotta be in top hundred in the world. Like that feels like a very- Not top hundred in the world, but top hundred. Well, that's what I'd tell her in the FedEx stuff. You know, like I probably just said, yeah, you're one of the top 100 golfers in the world. It would be nice if we could unite those lists, but that's a different topic. One thing at a time.

TC, who's gonna be pissed off about this? Who are kind of the, who are the losers in this situation? I mean, other than Ryan French from Monday Q info. Which let me, I guess my opening thought would be like, yeah, I think what a lot of this should be prefaced with is people like the game for very different reasons. Right? And I think one thing, I mean, Ryan French is like the perfect avatar for a lot of this because he literally covers Monday qualifiers and he covers underdog stories.

And that's, you know, he's very open about that's why he loves the game is because it's incredibly democratic. There's always guys going in and out. There's always, you know, if you can, if you can play well in this Monday qualifier, you can tee it up next to John Rom or Scottie Scheffler and, you know, kind of be a couple good rounds away from breaking through and maybe changing your life. I think that's fair that that's why a lot of people do like golf.

They do like those underdog stories. I think some of this conversation gets clunky is that this is the latest instance of just massive growing pains in the sport of golf is what it feels like to me, right? Where when you look back at what pro golf used to be, it was these weekly circuses that would go to Memphis and Greensboro and the Quad Cities and all these different places and they would put up their tent and they would say, I don't know how many players can we fit in here in daylight? Let's give people as many as we can, that they can come out and watch with their kids and make sure we got a full tee sheet and you can watch golf from sunup to sundown.

And sure, yeah, the final round's on CBS. Yeah, great. Awesome. Maybe we'll get some money from TV as well. And now that the pendulum has just swung so violently into like, no, actually this is a big, big, big dollar entertainment product with massive sponsors. And now all of a sudden irrational actors who can pull away the game's top stars, it just has to change. Right. And this is where I think a lot of this, a lot of this comes from. So Neil, I'm with you in that,

you know, it's almost like getting Al Capone on tax evasion, right? Where it's like, oh, sorry, daylight. I wish we could do that. I wish there was more daylight, mules. Nothing I could do for you, man. But I get why they have to do it like that because other than that, it is pretty much just, I mean, saying the quiet part out loud would be like, yeah, there's too many guys that people just can't recognize and don't care about. And maybe if we go from 100. Well, and the stat about the guys, you know, that Monday qualify in like, you know, 75 or 80% of them missed the cut. Like they had a stat in there and it's a little bit like, Hey, anybody can run for president third party candidate. Yeah. I don't know, man. Like,

you know, it might not work that way. Yeah. It's supposed to be the elite tour on planet earth. Right. So I like the idea of meritocracy. Yeah. That's not going away. Stories are great. Just bringing everything in proportion. I think the biggest thing for me is the fact that the last couple of years, the corn fairy tour guys increasingly, like this has been an issue for a while, but over the last two years, especially since the signature events came around and guys, like they didn't really know what the knock on effects were going to be from, you know, the points changes and smaller fields and those, and really all the corn fairy tour guys were just getting pushed farther and farther down the priority list because guys were making more starts.

And so you would get to the Florida swing and guys have only made one, maybe two starts. Maybe they started at the desert and Torrey maybe. And so it's early to mid-March, you're two and a half months into the season and guys have got one or two starts under their belt. And that's tough if you're coming out of the 25th or 30th spot. You won on the Korn Ferry Tour last year, but you didn't have a great season. But I think a tour card should mean a tour card. You should be able to get off to a good start, know what your schedule is going to look like, have a representative amount of events and go get it. Where I think part of it too is over the last

few years, the 126th or the 140th guy from the previous season's FedExCup has gotten 25 starts. There's some bottom of the barrel shit out there as far as the Barbasol or the butter. And then you got the fall series stuff, which is another conversation that stuff's probably going to wither away. But I think now it's like, all right, cool. If you have your card, you have your card. If you don't have your card, go play the corn fairy tour. That strengthens the corn fairy tour. I think they need to keep strengthening the quality of the courses out there so that they're identifying the right talent. Well, just to linger on that, I mean, basically what can happen is when you don't have the

right golf courses, like I was talking to somebody about this with AAA pitching, right? Where you have guys just feasting on AAA pitching and then they get promoted to the major leagues and all of a sudden it's like, oh my God, I don't, I have never seen a slider that slides like that. I don't, what, how am I supposed to do this? Same thing can happen in golf, right? Where you're not playing hard enough golf courses and you go out and you rake because you hit it 405 yards kind of all over the place and you chip it up there and can putt a little bit. And then all of a sudden you go to, you know, I mean, most PGA tour courses, we like to dump on them as you know, birdie fest, but they are harder, man. The greens are firmer. Yeah.

There's rough. The pins are closer to edges. The roughs are tougher. They're longer, all of that stuff. So yeah, that's an important point. Yeah. But part of that too is like, all right, then you can treat the players you've got better, right? You can like, you know, and I was laughing. Billy was on, Billy Horschel was on the pod with, with Ryan French, one day Q info pod. And you know, Ryan's like, Hey, what, what benefits are there for fans? And Billy said, you know, the players don't have to warm up in the dark. There's, there's, which there's always time with you. He's always pissed about that. He's always there's, uh, their dining is fantastic. You know, we, we get the grass fed steaks. Now we get the, uh, the, you know, wild line

caught salmon, all of that stuff. But no, I mean, you know, to like, to be fair that, that stuff does trickle down to the product. If there's 25 less guys in the field, that's 25 less courtesy cars you have to get. That's more money that you can throw ostensibly if they do it right, that's more money that you can throw into the corn fairy tour down the line. There's trickle down effects, hopefully. Now, I'm not sure, but I don't know. Bottom line is I'm shocked that they were able to get this passed. Now we need to start with major medical reform. One thing at a time, TC.

Governance is slow. It takes a while. Can I just say one thing I like simple. And you go to a top hundred. I think that's a good first step. I feel like the signature event should just be the top hundred and have a cut, like a 20 man cut. Like I feel like that would solve some of the problem, TC.

I agree with you. You were talking about with like in the, in the email, they evaluated that, but they talked to the sponsors and everybody decided they didn't want to mess with that. So I don't know. And based on what I heard, like they, they could have gone a lot farther with this. They could have, they could have kept, kept, you know, really far ahead of the team. They could have gone a lot further. They could have, they could have kept, you know, And based on what I heard, like they could have gone a lot farther with this. They could have kept, you know, further. God, I'm messing that up. That's my pet peeve when people mess that up. I'm messing it up. And they didn't. Like, I feel like they did it. This is rarely am I ever on the side of the PGA tour. I think that like this is something that I wish they

could have done 10 years ago. It's clarity for the fans, it's clarity for the players. Yes, there's winners and losers. But at some point, and what I do wonder is now how does that gap between the Champions Tour and the PGA Tour, that gap's going to get wider. There's going to be less hangers on at 44, 45, 46 years old. And so what are those guys going to do in the meantime? Yeah.

Right. And then you've got a bunch of those 48 and 49 year old guys beating up the corn fair tour because they get automatic status out there before they go. So they're going to have to- It's always going to be bad actors. That's the next wave of this stuff. There's always going to be bad actors looking for loopholes, but we got it. We got to take care of the bulk first. So this is, it's a shout out to the pack, the player advisory council. Do you guys, do you guys know who's on the pad? I did for a long time. I feel like it's, it's

changed over so much and who's, who's on and who's not, and who's on the board now and who's not. I would Mr. Vagegas is the chairman, but I'm going to throw a few names at you. There's the directors, which is Camila Vagegas, Patrick Cantlay, Peter Mulnaughty, Adam Scott, Webb Simpson, and Tiger Woods. And then you've got, well, yeah, then you go down to the, just the council itself. So I'm going to throw some names at you. Tell me if they're on the pack or not. We'll do a little test here. Shameless power. Yes. Yes. He is on the pack. Yes.

Ben Griffin. No. I'm going to follow TC. I'm going to say no. He's not on the pack. Let me answer this one. Brendan Todd. No.

Brendan Todd. Yeah. Yes. Shit. Brendan Todd is not on the pack. All right. All right. All right. Keith Mitchell. Yes. Max

Grazerman. No, no. That's correct. Nick Hardy. Yes. Yes. Adam Svensson. No, no. All right. All right. You did pretty good. You're pretty good. Let's see what more Neil is on the pack. You're pretty good. Let's see what we're nearly is on the pack Well, I'm going to use on the pack Mackenzie Kenzie Hughes is not on the pack. He is gonna say yes. He's always he's always spouting off He's got too much information to not and you got a man Because he wasn't part of the process. No, I guess he got on it this year. Yeah Lanto I guess is the the squeakiest of squeaky Adam. Shane, where a few guys had the quote.

And then, you know, I didn't, I don't know if I love this, but I don't know how I feel about this. Grayson Murray still listed as it as he as being on the pack. I believe he was replaced by Mav McNeely, but that's still on the website. So many to update that one. So and then Justin Thomas, Josh Teeter, Nick Taylor, Adam Schenck, Kevin Strilman, Brian Harmon, little Brian Harmon. He's bouncing around. So yeah. Always doing stuff at the pack meetings. What else kind of from this are those waterfall knock-on effects? I thought Joseph Lamania and

the Fry Dag had a good breakdown of the whole situation, would encourage people to go read that. One of the things he pointed out in there, I was not really thinking about was just kind of the propensity for maybe big names actually playing more of those late summer events. I mean, it makes sense. You got to be in the top 100 instead of the top 125. All of a sudden it might the, the non-signature events are getting weighted a little heavier than they are now. Uh, he used, you know, Jordan's speed. There's the example of, I think playing for the first time since 2015 at the John Deere. And it's like, man, if, if guys are worried about not being in that top 100, this might actually

get them to some of those, some of those events, but anything else you guys are kind of flagging or I think the, I think the decrease from 30 to 20 on the corn fairy tour, that's going to be interesting. So they said they got 30, 30 spots. The last couple of years, that was like the 30 now it's the 20. So there's going to be more than a few guys that win a golf tournament out there and don't get their tour card. Yeah. Which I think kind of a tough, tough break, but hey, you got to put together a full schedule. One thing I'd love to see them implement would be like a percentage of cuts made as well.

Like if you don't meet this minimum threshold, doesn't matter. Like, you know, and then I'd like to see them not, uh, not all guys. Validate your, you know, finish top, you know, top three and then miss every other cut for the season. Cause I think it's gotten a little too feast or famine. And then I think something else is guys stacking years like from multiple wins in the same season. So, you know, like that, that just adds another year. And like, it should just be be like eat what you kill. Yeah. There I think try to have more. It's like who's playing well right.

Your exemption. If you win. I'm fine with a two year exemption. I just don't think if you win twice in the same season, it shouldn't turn into a three year exemption. Yeah. My opinion. So they did some stuff with PGA tour university added a few things as far as access goes there. And then the strength of field regulation is still, still there as well. Like if guys don't participate in 25 events in the current or previous season, the following season they would have to fill the strength of field regulation by participating in at least one tournament that they have not previously played during any of the preceding four seasons. Oh, anything I put this. What? They did a sponsor value program thing to this.

The sponsor value functions are currently scheduled from 2 p.m. Tuesday to 7 p.m. Wednesday. Like this is out in the weeds. This stuff is many players have expressed concerns about the Tuesday start time as it impacts their practice and preparation for the tournament. Additionally, tournament organizers have requested a schedule change because many C-level executives are not available on Tuesdays and Wednesdays. To address these concerns, it is proposed to push the Tuesday start time to 6 p.m. and then add in the option of a

shorter function following a player's morning round on either Thursday or Friday. See, this is where I think maybe I have a lot more sympathy for the PGA Tour folks than you do, TC, is seeing some of this stuff behind the scenes. Neil, it's a true like, hey, we hear you, we are not going to be getting those bagels from that place for the breaker many more. I hear you loud and clear. Those were not good. You're right.

We deserve better than that. I mean, they have to figure out like that kind of shit. And also, how do you design this incredibly complex machine that is like totally fair for as many people as possible? Unless you have 40 events all over the country, you got a different organization running all of those. I mean, it's just fucking circus, which it also, I think, speaks to just how hard it is to kind of turn the battleship around and why some of this stuff is A, long overdue and B, it's going to probably keep coming, right? As they're kind of rebuilding and you get all the live stuff forcing all these changes, I mean, it's just going to keep happening until they get it down to whatever makes the most sense as a pure like entertainment product.

So, which yeah. And if there's, you know, 200 total active tour members instead of 250, feels like that makes the 200 happier. And it's, you know,, it's yeah, I know those 50, but aren't, aren't happy, but what better, man? There's 200 spots, you know, any, any soft spot, Neil, I'll start with you. Any soft spot in your mind for kind of the, you know, the, the Monday queue type of stories. This guy worked at Dick's sporting goods. He got through. Yes. He's playing, he's playing the 3M this week. But I think those stories, I think those are becoming just that stories. You know, so they're, they're kind of few and far between. I, it's,

it's a shame, but I guess I would trade those for a little bit more, uh, a simplified structure that I can understand a little bit better. And they're not going away completely. So you just got to finish second instead of fourth. But yeah, I mean, you gotta go out and like, it's gotta go shoot like 60. And there's a lot of events where straight up there just is no more money qualifier. But also I, I, you know, keep bringing up baseball stuff, but it's like, there's no contest to like go play third base tonight either.

You know, sometimes you just have to like put in the time and make your way to major leagues. That's just how it works. But I don't know, anything else on this before we move on? Just the pace of play stuff. I take my hat off to the tour. I'm so impressed that you guys were able to get this through. I just don't understand why you had to simultaneously.

It's like a rider. It's like on a bill in Congress, TC, they had to, they had to throw some money at some bridges and some in Idaho. I just wish they'd published this, you know, average stroke time. They're calculating everything. Like, are you 12 seconds slower than the field average? Like you're going to get fined if you do it three times. We need to put our resident big J journalist on, on track in that. I'd like to know the times. I think that would be fascinating Intel. Let's get our hands on that.

We should have somebody hack into Shotlin. That'd be great. TC, tell us about H&B, our proud, proud partners at H&B. Oh, I'm wearing it right now, man. I got the, I got the Wallace hoodie on. Where's Wallace at? This thing's like my go-to fall hoodie, especially now that we're through to... God, we're into daylight savings is truly like one of the biggest shams perpetrated on this country. H&B has nothing to do with that though. Yeah, they got nothing to do with it. If anything, they made it more, during this time of year. So you can get stocked up for the holidays, their holiday collection and gift guide is now live on their site,

hbgolf.com. They got gift tiers under 200, under 150, under 125. They got gift boxes for holiday orders. I don't know. I wear this stuff to play golf and I also wear it every single day when I'm not playing golf. It's a versatile off course product like the Baxter corduroy pants. I don't know if you guys have got to know. I'm so in on corduroy. I might need to seek that out. There was these blue shorts that I wore this weekend to the, I went to the cocktail party, the world's largest outdoor cocktail party here in Jacksonville.

I wore these bright blue shorts that were radiant. I love them. Their shorts are just absolute fire. The cashmere, the sergeant sweater, all of that. NLU10 for 10% off at hpgolf.com. And you know what? I would also say this is their 10th anniversary. This is our 10th anniversary. We've kind of been working with them from our start. Great vendor for us, great partner for us. And follow them on social too. Their Instagram and Twitter accounts are fantastic. Like Fridays, they do the Friday cocktails or the Friday drinks and they do all the details. They're into details. I can't believe it. I've never been this guy, but yeah, I've started following more clothing brands on socials. Just let me see what everybody's doing. Trying to get some inspo for the brands.

I don't know. Let me see what everybody's doing. I like it. I echo everything you said. Great guys, great team, great products. There's a slogan for you. Holder is important. They're product guys. That's exactly right. Simplify shit, understand shit. That's right. Play better gold. Speaking of which, Neil, our next story tonight, we're going to talk a little TPI, Titleist Performance Institute.

Let me, I'll, you guys, you guys describe it. Neil, we had a video that came out this week of, of your time there working with Dr. Greg Rose. Tron, you were waiting in the wings. You were also being assessed. Your video has not come out yet, so don't spoil too, too much throughout this conversation. But Neil, what is, what is TPI? What did you do? Let's start there. Well, I mean, you were my John the Baptist, right? You had a, you had a TPI video come out two months ago. So you've been through the assessment. No,

you and Cody both said, you got to get out there and Casey. Well, but you two specifically were like, this is, I think you would really enjoy this. I like being a guinea pig for this kind of stuff. So yeah, it was a very eye opening would be the word, the words I would use for it. It's been very helpful. But it's not a it's not a lesson. It's it's more information. It's the truth. Like, knowledge is power. And I have the knowledge, but we have to continue to put in the work to make it better. But I have

what your, what your reality is. Yes. As a golfer, it is the ultimate benchmark. Well, here, I think the thing that sticks out to me is the assessment is, it's, it's nice when someone assesses you, but to have the ability to compare you to thousands of other golfers, most of those being topped here, like this is what the PGA Tour averages for upper body power, core power, and lower body power. So they've kind of created these tests that they put you through. So it gives you kind of a physical benchmark.

And then it's the learning about the power process of how, you know, and I also say like teachers matter. I think Dr. Greg Rose is the one of the best teachers I've ever been around. I was only around for, you know, three or four hours. But I think I said in the video, he reminds me of a few of the history teachers I had in high school that you're just like, God, that guy, like Dr. Easy from Marist DC, our art history teacher. You just like, God, that guy, like Dr. easy from Marist TCR art history teacher. You just like, man, this guy is making this information stick. And the way he would explain, which is the key to your heart rate for me, but also just, okay, here's how it works. 95% of golfers and 99% of the top

golfers create power in a specific process. hips go first, then they drop, then they turn and then they basically push off the ground. And you know, there's like you could use like you could kind of flop like one or two of those things, but it's going to be kind of funky. So we know that we and we've measured this on 1000s of golfers. And this is just some do certain parts of that better than others. And sometime it differently. So he's already kind of explaining like, it's not that there's one way to hit a golf ball, but there's one way to transfer

power like efficiently. And so it starts to like, immediately, I'm like, Oh, okay, that's simplifying things for me. It's the same time, he's got 30,000 charts up there. And so he's like a Sherpa of like guiding you through all this data that you, you know, couldn't understand on your own. Which is wild when he gets done with it and he's showing you the kinematic sequence or the kinetic sequence or whatever. And you're like, Oh yeah, no, I totally, I could, I could read this now. Like you're doing such a good job of teaching it that like, I know exactly how these force plates work.

It's, it's wild. You obviously don't, but he makes you feel like you're doing it. I've watched the video now, you know, three times and I feel like I'm still learning, like learning from it and applying that to some of the workouts I have. And like one that stuck out to me is the, and I think you'll, you'll see this in TC's video is the mobility stuff's really important for me because my, especially my right hip and, and there's an exercise he made me do where he's like, I want you to keep your upper body still and turn your lower body. And I really struggled to do that. But then he was like, now I want you to keep your lower body still and turn your lower body. And I really struggled to do that. But then he was like, now I want you to keep your lower body still and turn

your upper body. And I had great range of motion. He's like, Oh, you're over the top. Like that's why, like your brain's going to go the path of least resistance. And so naturally when I take the club back, I'm fake turning basically, a lot of it is just in my upper body. And then that creates a bunch of problems. So it's really funny. He starts it off too with, you know, imagine I'm a genie and you get three wishes. And I thought like reflected, you know, before I went on the trip of like, what do I want? And I wanted to understand, I said to him, I was like, I don't really want to draw the golf ball, but I want to know what it feels like to hit a draw and, and come inside out. And he basically taught me how to do that. Now, a takeaway is with great power comes great responsibility. So

you start using that left leg, Deege and some, some push, uh, as he said, like pushing off that left leg or, you know, it's almost like cracking the whip. A good analogy for me is like, you're, he's like, you're great on the way out, but you never snap. And like, there's no, there's no place where you snap the fulcrum and actually transfer the power through the club head. And that really stuck with me as well. But like I said, you know, you start,

you start snapping the whip and that ball starts going left. Oh my God, I got 10 years of aiming up the left side of the course. You tell me I got to aim right now. So that's been a big adjustment for me. And I haven't had a ton of range time, but I have been working the mobility stuff. That is a heady decision by you. Let me just pick that apart. I don't just teach me how to have the feel of the shot that I definitely don't want. No, no, it's not that I don't want it. I just want to know. I feel like I'm, what I said to him was I'm constantly, I feel like I am fighting to stay above water. You know what

I'm saying? Like I, I, to, to, to be on plane or just to have a zero on the launch monitors, like the path, I just want the club path to say zero. I don't want it to say negative. You know what I mean? I've never met somebody who is so, I don't know. Maybe I'm, maybe I'm, you know, projecting or assessing you too closely, but you love making the numbers say the right thing. You don't give a shit where the ball goes. That's dangerous. He's like, he's like the cat, the cat's like that. I remember going to like coastal indoor golf with you and Jackson, it's just like, why does the face to pass say minus three point

four? I hate that. I hate that. Like, no, it's like, I hate that. I hate that. I hate that. golf with you. I know, I know. It's just like, why does the face to pass a minus three point four? I fucked. It's like, hate that. I hate that. Like, no, it's fine. It's like outside in seven. Just like a little cut. It's fine. No, I hate it. Should be zero. Well, because it creates a spinny ball because in my head, what I told him was like, that feels very inefficient to me.

And I would like my swing to be more efficient. I don't like feeling like I'm not maximizing the power that I'm generating. And you know, we learned that you're not like, yeah, that I thought your assessment, like, I think mine was interesting. I don't think it was shocking. Well, I thought yours was fascinating to me. Three wishes or did you say a lot of a lot of directions I could go?

Yeah, I struggled with the wishes because- Hide for fit, I have. No, because it was like very like, how granular do you want me to get kind of thing? And I was like, I know if you fix this, it's going to fix that. This is all laddering up or whatever. But yeah, that whole conversation was a complete mess. But there was like genuine wonderment and amazement from Greg when he saw both my lack of fitness and mobility and also my, I think I'm a 28-hand. So one of the best things about the assessment is he puts you through all this, like, you know, if you're watching the video,

like what's your range of motion like this? Okay. Do this. Okay. What's your range of motion like this? And he, and he measures all of those things and how high can you jump? Okay. Now jump on one leg. Okay. How, how long can you hold this? Okay. Great. He's got to stop. Watch out. Like he measures all of this, puts it all into a computer. Then it gives you like a fitness handicap of basically like what you're capable of right now. So I forget what mine, I think I was right around there too, TC. I think I was like 28 or something. I don't, I don't remember what my fitness handicap was. I was pretty much my, I think you were at like a seven or an eight, you know? Yeah. My, my upper body was like above

average and then my core was, was below average and my legs were like right, just slightly below like PGA tour average. It was like, Hey, you're doing pretty well. And I was at 19 actually. That's better than it better. Is it in the TPI? It is. It is. But he looked at my swing afterwards and he was like, wait, what's your handicap?

I don't know. I fluctuate between like a one and a three. He's like, are you serious? He starts, he starts digging in on my swing. And he said, he said, you have the closest thing I've ever seen of anybody I've ever worked with to a gate swing. It's the exact same on the, on the way back and the way through where like, like you have all these limitations, all this crazy physical stuff that like your, your, your midsection just straight up doesn't work. And yet you are so remarkably on plane, it's crazy.

I was like, man, I don't know whether to be ashamed or be proud of things. That's what's so cool about the assessment too, is you go through all this stuff and I'm looking at the app now and it gives you like, okay, on toe touches I get a yellow light, but on my pelvic rotation I get a green light. And you know, there's probably a couple of red lights in there too.

And it basically says like, okay, due to all of these limitations, you probably struggle with loss of posture, early extension over the top, like everything that I'm just like, yep, check, check, check. And he's so his whole thing is like, man, I just really, if I do this assessment, I don't really need to like, I'll watch you hitting a couple of golf shots, but like computers are already going to know what you, what you struggle with and kind of nail you to the wall. So, uh, well, I kind of had them fooled for awhile. Uh,

yeah. Neil's had this unbelievable reveal. Yeah. Cause that was basically going into it. What I was going to say earlier, and it was like, I was more fascinated for years than it was for my own of where is all of this power going? Like Neil should be hitting the ball 330. I mean, he's got great hands. He's got a fast twitch. He's got explosion. He's got swing speed. Great position at the top.

Where is all this like like where's the leakage at? And we were able to identify that. Yeah. So my my wish has got kind of blown up because of some posture problems. And then it's a good wishes got kind of blown up because of some posture problems. And then it turns out it's a good thing. Your wishes got blown up instead of your back. Yeah, true. And then I wasn't using my left leg, but I just, uh, I, I dunno, I really appreciate, uh, you know, the redoing some of the titles performance, like the campus, you know, and they're putting, they have that, you know, they're, they're working with other sports,

baseball players. It's just really like, I think it's awesome when another industry goes searching for answers to like an unrelated industry of like, maybe you can help us solve this. I think that's really, really cool. Can we talk to the golf people for a little bit? Maybe they, yeah, exactly. Well, and also the golf people, we were talking about the driver, like, yeah, we had to find a new polymer for the, for the drivers. So they're talking to somebody, you know, in the rocket, rocket space, you know, in like Taiwan, like it's, I don't know, I find all of it fascinating. So it's really cool. And the fact that they have, I don't know, it's such a headstart on the collection. They've done such a good job cataloging all

the golfers that come through there. You know, so they, they'll pull up like, you know, you know, they pull up max's swing or just pretty much anybody's swing. And it's like, here's what these guys do. And so the comparison is really where the value is, is like, okay, you start to pick up on patterns, which is really, really interesting. And there's a lot, there's a lot of guys that you have no idea that they're going out there to work.

You aren't on staff with Titleist or some of the best baseball players in the world. Like it's truly biomechanics and it's, it's hard to talk around it because there's no, you know, like endorsement deals and stuff, but it's just, it's people you've heard of, I guess is what I would say. That's where they're going for answers. So it's a weird, it's a weird one. Cause the takeaway I know from a lot of people is like, Oh, like, how do I get some time on Greg Rose's calendar? It's like, ah, well, I don't know, we're,

maybe more options. They're expanding the space. So it's, it, well, what I was going to say is TPI is like a nationwide program and there's TPI fitness instructors all over the place. So there have been a lot of people who are like, yeah, a lot of people who have like framework and a philosophy. Yeah. A lot of people who have really, man, I saw these videos and I booked a session with my local guy and now I'm doing similar workouts and all that stuff. So, uh, just, uh, I dunno, this wasn't like an ad, uh, an ad site. This is like what we wanted to talk about. Yeah. Thank you to those guys for having us out. Cause it's, it's truly like, we get to do a'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like,

I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I in like when I watch TV and stuff and, and you know, sometimes I won't do the whole program as at once, but if you do the exercise enough, you start to remember them. So you're like, Oh, I'll just do the, uh, the clamshell one right now, you know, or like the, the hip disassociation stuff. Um, but God, if you don't do it for a week, then you go kind of start back from square one. So I'm trying to make it.

The little wins little wins add up to something big. I'll be candid. I haven't done enough of it. I'll go in spurts like two or three weeks and then, you know, I'll travel for a week and a half or two weeks. And I'd need to get better at doing it on the road. But yeah, I'm looking forward to this, this winter too. Go watch Neal's it's all it's, it's freaking sweet. And Zach, just in time for golf season to be over up here in the Northeast. But Deidre, we might have a big finish to the year coming up, buddy. I love it.

One more chance, baby. One more chance to put that left miss in play this year. Bring your clubs down for Thanksgiving in a few weeks, Neil. Go play. I think I might have to. Do you guys know who the best, uh, best physical handicap, uh, like best golf, physical handicap index golfer is in the history of TPI? God. And it's been like true throughout his career. Like from the, from the time he got there all the

way till now, Jordan Spieth, Adam Scott. Really? Really? I could see that man. Surfing, you know, the surfing just works every muscle, works every bit of mobility. You can't, you can't fake your way through that. He's like a unicorn as far as physical. I was 26, so I wasn't much better than you guys. Yeah. Really? Whoa. Yeah. I had some bad, some bad. Was some of that like the shoulder and the hip? Yeah, especially my hip, a lot of red on the hips. I feel like the Adam Scott thing is kind of the perfect example of watching TV and being like, man, why can't I just like,

why can't I swing it like Adam Scott? It's like, well, cause you don't have like his body. Like your hips don't work like that, your ankles don't work like that, and your wrists don't work like that, and your shoulders don't go like that. Well, I should work like that. Your wrists don't work like that. Your shoulders don't go like that. Well, I should probably give Solly an apology for calling Mr. Penguin because he was like,

he was like, yeah, just open up your back. Just open up your feet. I was like, ah, damn it. I don't want that. Nevermind, I'll just hit it right. No, I'm just going to play a cut. All right, well, thank you. Thank you again to the TPI folks for having us out.

Go watch Neil's video. Like you said, our buddy, Zach Lee edited that. I just will, from a production standpoint, impossible edits. Those videos are so hard to edit. And Zach is like a TPI guy himself. So he knew, he's like, oh man, I can't believe you got to meet Dr. Greg Rose. I'm just, I'm such a huge fan. I've seen everything they've ever done on social. I know you don't even have to give me any direction. I know exactly what this edit should be. So he's the best. He did a great job. He's also sent me some extra stretching stuff. You guys need to get into the knees over toes guy on YouTube. He's got me into him. Well, Zach had a great, if you go to the,

well, five minutes and 20 seconds into Neil's video. That was a sweet edit, TZ. 20 seconds into Neil's video. That was a sweet edit, TC. Yeah, it was basically like some... He's talking about how you go over a cliff... I was like, you can't get more flexible after 26, I heard. He's like, it's actually 43, and TC's like... It's basically just like some people are ticking time bombs that are just like about to blow up,

and you just cut away to TC's face. It's just really good. But like, meanwhile, Greg's literally telling me, he's like, oh yeah. Like I'm sure, you know, every eight months you're just seeing like four last yards and you're just getting shorter and shorter. I'm just like, Oh my God. Yeah. How'd you know that? That was just nothing. Yeah. I don't know. All right. Let's keep moving. We got a lot. We got a lot more to get to somehow still, but before we do, we are going to talk about

our friends at Pinehurst TC. Who could forget the duel between Bryson and Rory down the stretch at the 2024 US Open and who among us is going to want to try Bryson's shot from the bunker to see if we can get it up and down. That's a great question because you need to be prepared to face your own pressure on that shot with a Veranda on the 18th green full of golfers who have already finished their day. Now watching you try to finish yours. Love sitting there on the deuce.

That's the best place to watch people. Nobody ever hits the cup. That's the best bet. If you're sitting out there, make bets with your friends on whether they're gonna actually hit the cup or not. Everybody scoops it. No, don't tell your friends.

And then you just, you know, then you play some bets. Don't forget just a couple of months before the US Open reminded everyone of what kind of a gem number two really is. Pinehurst also opened a new course, Pinehurst number 10, which opened in the spring of this year and was designed by Tom Doak. Number 10 features dramatic elevation changes,

natural sandy areas and remnants of an early 20th century sand mining operation. Neil, you got to see the eighth hole. You saw number 10 all in its glory in person, right? We got another video that people need to go check out of that too. Yes, Ben and I set the all shot course record. Congratulations.

I've been meaning to congratulate you about that. I think it's 81. Come get us. Pinehurst continues to invest in its present and future, making it better and better every year. Renovations at the Carolina are now complete, offering fresh and inspired takes on its guest rooms and lobby.

Pinehurst even debuted another new restaurant, the Carolina Vista Lounge, which has an expanded cocktail bar with contemporary menu unlike any other at Pinehurst and offers guests a stylish and satisfying respite befitting its setting in the historic Carolina Hotel. Best breakfast in America also, Neil has called the Carolina Hotel. And the manner is great these days too. The manor rules. And there's so much good stuff. The Ryder Cup. 2025 rates are out now and anyone can book a trip to Pinehurst through 2025. Also, we

have, I believe our registration for the Donnybrook is open now, Neil. It's closed now. We already pulled the lottery. So you guys, so you got to go to... So you got to book a trip. Yeah, I'm now. We already pulled the lottery. So you guys see you gotta go to... So you gotta book a trip. Yeah I'm sorry you missed out on ours. We're gonna have a bunch of people there but you might have missed out on the registration so you might have to book your own trip at... And play number three. Number three rules. Number three is awesome. All right guys this is a this is a different one this we're gonna you know we're gonna debut a little new segment here TC we've always got so much shit that we're trying to work in but you know we don't to, you know, we're going to debut a little new segment here. TC, we've always had so much shit that we're trying to work in,

but you know, we don't, I don't know if we're going to have a half hour conversation about everything. So I am going to kick this off. We're going to call this the E9. I put together nine things that I wanted to talk with you guys about. Some of them long, some of them short,

and we're just going to kind of rifle through them. Okay. So please stop me if you need to talk about anything, but otherwise we'll just keep moving. Number one, the Ryder Cup TC is headed to Spain. Much like the Carter brothers have just been spending, you know, as go you guys, so goes the world of golf. I feel like, you know, you guys are taking trips to Spain. According to the Spanish Golf News outlet, Ten Golf, the Ryder Cup is expected to return into Spain in 2031. Report says that Camerol Golf and Wellness is the overwhelming favorite to host. Neil, I know you love golf.

Love it when someone's running a wellness retreat. That's good stuff. Former PGA Catalunya was the name of it too. So it's about an hour south of Barcelona. I don't know. I don't think it's the greatest. Yeah. I'm sure we'll talk about this at length over the next, until 2031. I think we've kind of said all we probably have to say about Ryder Cup venues. They never are going to go to a good golf course. They're going to go to wherever they can make the most money and try to have people who are booking, you know, big expensive travel packages, give them cool

places to go. And as someone who went to Rome, seemed to work pretty well. So I don't know, we'll see what the golf course is, but at the end of the day, they don't really seem to think it matters all that much. 2031, Ludwig might be a captain. I was hoping it would go to Spain Ludwig might be a captain. I was hoping it would go to Spain or to Sweden. All right. Moving on. Number two, Grant Thornton teams are out. TC, I know you were all over this. I want to know who's your guys' favorite team and why at the Grant Thornton. This is of course the mixed team events. One man, one woman playing some sort of format in Naples. I'm not really sure what it is. Yeah, I think, I mean, there's a few that I love like Lauren, our, our young hitter, Lauren Coughlin playing with cam young. That's another friend of the program. That's great.

Yeah. I liked that. Uh, saw hits playing with Rose Zang, uh, JT posting, getting the call playing with Maya Stark. Uh, but man, you know, Billy likes to talk. I didn't get that vibe from Andrea Lee. I don't know. Maybe she seemed a little more like a I didn't know. I don't know if I totally, I don't know if I totally saw that one. Billy's kind of a, you know, Billy, Billy likes to talk. I didn't get that vibe from Andrea Lee. I don't know. I don't know. Maybe she seemed a little more, a little more quiet, a little more reserved. But maybe Billy will be doing the media for that team. We'll see. I know TC is going to be writing for little Cory Connors and Brooke Henderson. That's fun. That's a fun one. That's kind of in your ass, TC. Team Canada.

We got Kutcher and Megan Kang. Kutcher's beat this tournament for decades now. He loves it. He loves it. All right, number three. This was an interesting one. This is a story from Adam Schupack at Golf Week. Schupack, I feel like we shout him out a lot.

He's always got good stuff, man. He's always sniffing around. Go Lions, he's a fellow Columbia guy. Come on. He's always got good stuff. All right, so here's what he had to say this week at Golf Week. He's always sniffing around. Go Lions. He's a fellow Columbia guy. Come on. He's always got good stuff. All right. So here's what he had to say this week at golf week.

24 players and nine captains who participated in this year's president's cup, and I believe also the 2022 president's cup as well, if I read the story correctly, received a stipend of $250,000 that they could quote, do with whatever they please. Previously, participants for the President's Cup, just like the Ryder Cup, were not paid, but they were given an allocation, you know, like a donation in your name, basically. We are going to make a donation to X, you know, whatever cause, whatever charity you like on behalf of you playing in this event. So this is a departure from that. This is like a check for 250K to go do with what you want.

I think the hope and I'm sure the reality for a lot of players is that they will still pass that along to charity. But I think on the other side, it kind of gets the PGA Tour out of the headache of having to reimburse for travel and for hotels and for all kinds of like weird stuff, which again is just one of those things like the tour has to deal with it or like in conjunction with also just making all of these guys all of their money and trying to put on a world class like a entertainment. I love the use of stipend.

Stipends is a great word. Anytime you get that in is, is it dumb? It should be used for expenses. So I guess 250. Yeah. I guess the private. You got to do stuff to get your allowance. So I guess the uncharitable reading of this, the very, very cynical might be a little bigger, but we'll see. It's kind of an interesting one. For something that has been such a big deal for so long, should players get paid for these events? Should they not? For this to just be like a really kind of like quiet, I hope no one notices that that part of the media guide where players are giving charitable donations to disappeared is just, it's just really funny to me. So

I just wanted to make sure this made the list. Any other reaction to this? Yeah. I mean, I think at some point it's like, all right, well like why are we only getting 250,000? Like this is, and I think the next question, maybe it's a little bit of a, how did you decide on 250? Yeah. You see the path. Yeah. Show us your math. The PGA tour, like this is helping fund the overall operation and everything.

Whereas, and even the Ryder Cup, they're getting what? 20% of the, I think the top line revenues. Is that right? Yeah. PGA tour is. Yeah. So there's, it's kind of a, it was kind of a, what's good for the gander was good for the goose and now it's, now it's kind of flipped on its head.

The geese are migrating back up to the north. The geese are down in June. Get a good look at a T-bone steak. I'm going to go with the my gin today. Trying to remember Brown's honorable mention. My guy, Mike Carini down on King Island. He was up here for the World Series. Not to be confused with Carini. Right. But he's so bummed about Los Yanks. That's a long way to fly. He's honorable mention. I have to give it to my guy, Harold, from the public. I was hoping so. He's a Dominican dude. I think he was 61. He shot two under in our first 18 of a 36 whole day. He started playing golf at age 41, and he beat the shit out of me.

And just everything about him, like the sun sleeves, the fit, his caddy was wearing loafers. It was sick. And he's just like a public golf menace. And it was awesome to see. And it gave me hope. I was like, damn, this guy's beat my ass. And then it's like, man, my best golf's ahead of me. I love it. That's one of my favorite moments in the history of maybe the history of my golf career. Definitely

the history of strapped was when we play with Scott Fagley and Peoria and Neil's waxing on him. He's like, man, he's just got that like old dad game. You know, he's just chipping it away out there. Like that's what, you know, that's what my game is going to evolve into and Randy's like, no, it's not dude. Like you could do that right now if you wanted. You just don't want to do that. And it just started this whole great discussion. Just really anyway. So Harold's kind of the, uh, the natural evolution aspirational hit it to 40 on just a, you know, tight draw all, all day long. All right, TC, let me go next.

Just because this is an easy one. We've talked about them a lot, but I think he is the, uh, he is at the tip top of my list. I'm going to give it to our guy, Matt Malika. Uh, it's a guy I have played with before. He's not a new golf partner. Obviously played with him during the first season of Toursauce, but a guy that is truly like you could be any citizen of the world and be dropped into that foursome and he's going to find something unbelievably engaging to talk to you about.

He knows everything about everything, but not in a braggadocious way. He is just like a curious, fascinating dude who I could sit and talk to for just hours and hours and hours. So he's, he's one of my favorites. Well, I could probably would have been on my list, but I didn't, I didn't actually play with him. That's why I figured, I figured he wasn't going to be

on your list. I didn't want to take it away. Yeah. I had a bunch from when I was over in Scotland this summer. You get one. No, I know. I know. I got a professional skier who lived in Vietnam and Thailand for decades and he was fascinating.

He was like one of the political debate people. I met a mother in Iowa. She never gets to play golf anymore. We met this ER doctor, Dr. Ballspeed, we called him. He's an ER doctor in Glasgow and he just treats like a bunch of stab wounds all day. He works all night. But most interesting guy, it was actually, I'm kind of cheating because it was a father and a son. I didn't play with the father, but I had dinner. And I met him on the campaign trail. Stan Morrison at Turnberry, Preswick guy, Turnberry

guy. He grew up next to the hotel. Like his parents own their family is a big Scotch distillery family. So they used to own like the Macri and they own the house next door to Trump Turnberry, the hotel. Just talking to them about all of that over the last 20, 30 years. It was fascinating. He used to work for, I believe, Williams Sonoma out in the Bay area. Sure. Post college. And now he runs a Scottish distillery over there. He plays in the Crump Cup. He's a proper player. He played rugby growing up. Didn't start playing golf until he was in

his 20s. Sounds like a citizen of the world. He's like a plus four or plus five. He's just nasty. So Stan Morrison and his dad, Tim, two of the more interesting Renaissance men I've ever met. I love it. That's a great prompt. I'm going to keep thinking about that one. It almost feels like everybody should have an individual power ranking. It's like the Gatling, Randy's Gatling list. What a thrill it would be if a new person, if you find a new person, they move on to your list.

All right. Number five, TC, I'm reading about this Jalen Hurts has a no golf clause. He doesn't. Maybe that was mistaken. Yeah. It was, it's just a courtesy to owner Jeffrey Lurie. Lurie said, quote, I don't want you getting obsessed with golf and that distracting you. So Hertz, it's more that Lurie doesn't want him playing golf and he's being considerate of that. But I guess they played with, uh, say Kwan and a couple other guys played, uh, Marion

E. So Marion with Obama and Hertz was like, yeah, I was just like, he was like, yeah, Hertz was just watching. He couldn't play it since contract that he can't play. So, which is kind of a fall well situation at Marion, just tough. I have to put that sauce gardeners contract. Exactly. Anything that Neil, I know you're kind of our head of HR, anything you're looking to put in the future, future NLU contracts. Maybe stop get Randy to stop playing tennis. You know, we just, I don't know if that's taken away from his golf watching.

I might put it in that Randy has to do bonsai classes again. I think that was good for him. We should put it in that Randy has to do bonsai classes again. I think that was good for him. I agree. We should put it in that Randy has to play golf. That's where I thought you were going. Yeah, that's well said. Yeah, that's where I thought you were going with that one. All right, TC, number six.

I'm gonna throw this one to you. This is just a simple, does this mean anything? This is a live golf edition of this game. I'm gonna read you a couple things. You tell me, does this mean anything or not? Number one, Greg Norman's live contract is up in August 2025. Does that mean anything? Yes. Could be moving on. We'll see. Yeah, we'll see. We'll see what happens. Paul Casey and Peter Costas split up. TC, does this mean anything? No, it's an election year. Anything that's true.

All right. Eddie Peverell claims on a podcast, I believe the chipping forecast that the PIF is going to buy Wentworth. Does this mean anything? Depends on what your definition of anything is, right? Because then, you know, your DP World Tour headquarters isn't Wentworth, I believe. It is. MWPGA is there. All of that.

I got this as a big, maybe they'll redo the 18th hole for a 19th hole. I think this does mean something. I think this is a canary in the coal mine. If the game unites, I think the PIF goes on a spending spree on things like top golf adjacent golf courses. They're just going to try to get in the game like in with acquisitions like this. That's yeah, that's going to be fun. Well, how about how about your TPC network? I mean, why wouldn't they do something like that? I'm with Neil chip Bre, speaking of which he was floated as one of the guys for the PGA of Americas. Yeah. Really? Yeah. I don't think he's one of the three finalists, but he was in that. That was another shoe pack story. She packs all over it. Well, fantastic article in the financial times about the Callaway top golf, I guess, merger acquisition and then now the divestment and where it all went wrong.

Turns out top golf's very capital intensive. All right. Last one. Oh, and Jay and yeah, last one here. TCJ and Yasser reportedly playing in a pro-am in Riyadh this week. I believe that was a LAT Aramco series event. Does this mean anything? This might lead us into number seven here.

Yeah. I mean, it seems like they're, you know, we've heard mixed things over the last couple of months on where they're at. So stoked to see them playing, playing Riyadh golf club together under the lights. I believe too. It was a, it was a night pro. Good to see Jay taking an opportunity to wipe a competitor off the lights. I believe too. It was a night pro. Good to see Jay take an opportunity to wipe a competitor off the board.

Exactly. I wonder who do you think wins? I don't really know much about Yasser's golf game. I didn't really watch much at the Dunhill. Somebody tabulated it. Now, granted it was with the, like their pro partners from the Dunhill. And I think Jay won like three and two.

Let me ask you this. Who would win the ratings, this next match that's like the fake live versus PJ tour, Scotty Rory. That's not even a match. No, that's not. Showdown. That's a showdown. The next match is like Wayne Gretzky. Right. Which God knows who we can talk about that on the next, the'll see if that makes the next E9. But the next one, Rory and Scotty, uh, Bryson and Brooks, what gets better ratings that or Jay versus Yasser just like straight up and like winter winter gets like a, you know, increased bargaining chip in the negotiations. If there are real stakes involved, like some type of bargaining chip, that would

be awesome. Then I think it would get better ratings. But if not, probably the showdown. Loser leaves town. All right. Number seven. Okay. So this is from the Sun in the UK, which I'm not going to denigrate any reporting, but I think maybe a little fast and loose with the rule, with the facts historically, kind of on that tabloid side of things. They might not be wrong. They might just be right. That's exactly right.

That's why it's making the E9 TC. They are reporting that quote, golf civil war is all caps over as Rory McElroy and Tiger Woods have helped negotiate a $1.3 billion peace deal between Live Golf and the PGA Tour. It says Live will now quote, come under the PGA umbrella, end quote, and that the deal will give the PIF an 11% stake in the tour as well as two board seats, including the post of chairman. Any takeaways here?

What are your thoughts? Yeah, I tried to confirm it's... All my reputable people are like, I haven't been told about this yet. It seems like two board seats plus live continuing on and playing under the PGA Tour umbrella. 11% feels like a cool... But, cool. Like, but it just gets me back to even two years ago. Like if that's where we're going to get to, like, this is the deal we were going to do. Like, why couldn't we have just done this two years ago? And I know they had to set up PGA Tour Enterprises or, you know, the for-profit arm and all of that. But I think it would be deeply, deeply, deeply funny if Liv keeps going under the Torah umbrella. And like that

would piss Tiger off so much. That's right. Yeah. But then, I mean, who do you draft? Like, you know, would like, I would say, cool, like Fleetwood, like you get the cliques, man. The cliques are your squad or, you know, you force other guys. Like you force some of these guys that were in the hundred, 125, you, you force them to start playing, playing live. First of all, I know you don't want to hear this, Tron, but Fleetwood would be on the Majestics. Like that's no question. I think that would, I think that would be his. Neil, any, anyone? Then they would have to turn over the team completely.

Well, I just feel like he fits that kind of, I mean, that's the British squad. I think team Rose would be on the majestic. Okay. That's actually fair. I take it back. Neil, anybody you're immediately putting, if this is true and all of a sudden everybody's kind of under one umbrella, anybody, anybody you're saying, hey, you got to be on the iron heads or the, uh, you know, the, the fight, Lowe's fireballs. I'm, I'm, I'm, I feel unprepared for this one. I will go Tom Kim ironhead. Yeah, I could see that. Uh, all right. Well, listen more to come there. I, I, my sense is they are probably fairly close to some sort of deal, but this even like is so non-specific that it's like

literally, you could have just changed the eight point three billion gonna change the date to like You know June 6 2022 it would have been like the same, you know the same story. So TC I'm gonna I don't know if I don't have Cody here to put up slides on the on the screen And this is just a prompt for everybody to go watch the show on YouTube. But can you guys see that? Mayan temple site? No, this is one of the newly released holes

from the upcoming TGL. Who's the architect TC? You got Pisa. Pisa. I forget his first name. Augustine. Augustine pizza. He used to be Brandel's, you know, co-design partner. I think they've since gone their separate ways. For those that are not watching the YouTube channel and my clunky overlay here, it's basically just two giant pyramids. You can obviously see the strategy here TC.

You could either, you know, you could lay back into the wider part of the pyramid or you could really go for it. I think maybe this promotes like true bombing gouge, right? It's like the farther you hit it, like the more space you seem to have to, to hit it down there. But just curious if you had any thoughts on this. I know we talked TGL last week, Sally and I, and I don't know if you had any kind of lingering thoughts as the season approaches.

Yeah. I had a call with actually some, some of the TGL guys. The tech sounds like it's ready from everything. It sounds like Neil, it's truly the arena truly reminds me of baseball. Really? Yes. That's fantastic. Yeah. So like in a good way, I'm, and then I forgot they're playing off a real grass. Yeah. They're always fucking the grass stone is the arena ready? Cause that was, if I remember correctly, getting ready last year, well, the roof as you remember, that was, I was understating that a little bit.

Well, like the roof was the arena. It was a bubble. I still, I'm still not ready to choose my team. Any contenders? Do you want a release of a top three? I really like the squad with LA, but I just, I can't get down with that ownership. That's the Serena and Al Serena.

Serena and Ohanian and yeah, their whole rollout's been extremely thirsty. We'll see, we'll see. I think the, you know, but I'm, I'm, I don't know. I'm bullish on the whole, like, clippable moments. Yeah. It feels like, I mean, we kind of said this last week, but the, the thing with live is like, it's not different enough from the PJ tour, right? Where it still just kind of feels like the, the bad stuff about PGA Tour golf just with worse

players and music on the range and they're wearing short music on the court. Yeah. And so I'm like, I don't think that's going to really solve the problems we're talking about. Whereas something where the players don't have to walk, there's no downtime in between shots. They're like, everybody's mic'd up, everybody's standing together. It's not quiet, you can, you know, there is a lot of things where I'm like, okay, this is actually if I'm a 12 year old kid, like, man, this is actually

like much, much different. And you know, kind of, you can bet on it. Yeah. Maybe not for 12, but yeah. I mean, you could have a place. God, where did it cross Twitter is going to go nuts on that pizza design. It's just unbelievable, man. Yeah. Oh, well that was, so that was one of my questions. I said, will you guys have, I don't, I don't know if I'm allowed to say who the rules official is yet, but Tony's are pulling. That would be one of the ultimate things for reintegrating. Yeah, but I was like, Hey, like, like, will you have TIO?

I believe they got, uh, yeah. But I was like, Hey, like, like, will you have TIO? Cause there will be like, like in some of these holes that they've designed. So all the holes are like singular, right? Like there's, they're like 18 different, like one of them's in the desert and that's kind of sick. So they're not like, and they're like 15 whole matches. I think there's like 30 holes that they have. And so they'll put together which core, you know, which hole. So it's, so it's just a collection of cool. We're going to choose 15 hours here and go for the home team. But there, there could be TIO, which I'm really, really concerned about. And I just, I don't know like that whole, that distance from God, there's nothing fucking funnier to me than

betting on this stupid thing. And then like your ball goes through like a CGI cactus that it should have like gotten knocked down by or something like that. Like God, I'm with you TC. I think that like, you know, the rub of the verse. Yeah. I feel like I'm going to be, I don't know, I'm going to be downed and just kind of the pure chaos like absurdity. Sorry, it should be the rub of the screen. The rub of the screen. That's just the rub of the screen, man. Deal with it. It sounds like they're going to have so many layers of, what do you call it, like resiliency

as far as the technology goes. There's backup radar, there's backup sensors, there's all this stuff. So if it doesn't catch it, there's no way that they're not going to be able to glean data. They may have to do a, you know, a booth review or something like that and figure out where to put it. But I think that that stretch from like the 20 to 50 yards is going to be really awkward. Yeah.

I'm, you know, we'll see. It's a fascinating thought. Maybe that's where they have to do like, it, man, we just got to move it either to like 15 or back to like 55. Yeah. The technology is just simply not there. All right. Number nine, rounding out the, the inaugural E9, what's the best way to do that? I mean, I think it's like, I think it's like, I think it's like, I think it's like, I think it's like, I think it's like, I think it's like, I think it's like, I think it's like, I think it's like, I think it's like, I think it's like, I think it's like, I think it's like, I think it's like, I think it's like, I think it's like, I think it's like like 15 or back to like 55. The technology is just simply not there. All right.

Number nine, rounding out the inaugural E9 here. This was from Neil's hometown paper, the New York Post. A golfer in Canada was arrested for smashing a club over another player's head. KVV brought this to my attention. Did you watch the video? Oh my God, man. It's so hostile. The guy just it's kind of a sound of Blair Witch or like what's

that other Cloverfield type of camera situation going on here where like you can't quite see it. The guy's got his camera down because it's a hostile situation. But the context clues certainly would lead you to believe that our main character just absolutely hit this dude in the face with a driver full swing. And of course there's, I don't mean to laugh. I hope the guy was okay. But one of the onlookers is, you know, Casey, we're, you know, wondering if it was a Canada

just to say, Hey, we can, we could deescalate this thing. Hey, it just really made me laugh. None of the guy that got hit, none of his buddies, like, yeah, they were all pretty, I mean, I would have, yeah, I want to grab my Potter and my driver and gone right over there. I was on that plane. It wouldn't have gotten like that. You know, stab, I would have broken the thing in half of my knee and impaled him with it. Allegedly for legal reasons. That's not a threat. KVB followed it up with this. It begs the question, what is the most mad either of you's ever

been on a golf course? Good question. Yeah, that is a good question. I think, well, in recent memories, we did a wild war of golf at the yards in Jacksonville, in Ponte Vedra. And I just got my bucket doors blown off by Sally. I was so pissed during that whole, like the last four holes. I was like, I was legit mad. It's just that situation. First hole, you airmailed the green by like 40 yards into the back. I forgot the mark. Yeah, I just remember being real pissed by like 40 yards into the backpots. I forgot the number. Yeah, I just remember being real pissed that whole round.

You shoot the wrong thing. Yeah, I shot the tree behind the green or something. Like behind the pond behind the green. Yeah, yeah. I was like, oh, that seems off. But OK, we'll go with it. All right, let's go. Time to go get it. Green light.

Got to hit that. First hole. They hit that great, too. He sets the tone. Oh, man. That's a great answer. I forgot about that day. Man, I really struggled with this one. Do you see you got it? You got anything that comes to mind? No, I mean, there's stuff from growing up where like Neil and I got in fistfights out of golf.

No, I remember TC just wrapping his six iron around his golf bag on the fourth hole at Dunwoody Country Club. And then I was like, oh shit. And then he was like, don't, you know, don't tell mom. And TC just didn't have a six iron for like the next three months. Oh man. I, I, I get hot. Like when other people throw clubs is not, that's, that's not my thing. I don't like that. I've been out with people who just can't stop throwing clubs and just smashing clubs into the carts. And I mean, on that note, honestly, it was, it was Barzabek with love. That was sick. I've never like that, that double hit or that, you know,

series of contact felt like it went on for like 10 minutes. Like, like, like I was like, time was stopped and I was living in that moment. And it was awful. I wouldn't wish that upon anyone. I appreciate it. Well, guys, thank you for humoring me on the on the inaugural E9. We had a lot of ground to cover there, but I think that led to some led to some laughs. So hopefully we would keep that around. We'll see. Let's let's land the plane here. We're going to talk a little personal golf. Your your guys is weak in golf. As we do that, it's time for another moment of joy. As I said on the top, brought to you by our friends

at Foot Joy. Neil, you got some joy you want to share? We had a big finale, a moment of joy. I can't wait for it. Well, we had the NIT last week and my moment of joy was beating TC seven and six in our match in the, like the last, we were in the last group in our flight.

We were both in the basement and I just blew his doors off. So that was sick. But I also want to, on a better note, just Dobson ranch. I think it's a, a, a lighthouse in the, in the bleak kind of municipal public golf scene that just place was bumping. Amazing. What you can do when you're thoughtful about your business and you put a little money into the course and the driving range, just kids clinics for two straight days. The place was just packed, but like in a very healthy way,

like not overcrowded, just like good vibes at Dobson Ranch in Arizona. So I want to give them a shout out. I got a lot of joy out of seeing that firsthand. I love it. Mine will go, it is fall, very much fall up here in the middle west. I'm going to just zoom in as tight as I can on this actual moment of joy. And I'm going to give the moment of joy to the moment where you take the hoodie off about midway through the round of golf. Right. So there's been a round of golf this week where it was probably 37, 38 degrees on the first tee. You kind of have that fear of like, God, should we be at Ginkgo trees?

It is. The leaves are going to fall on the Ginkgo. Is this what we should be doing this morning? Should we have just gone to breakfast instead? Yeah. Do I have to get the rain gloves out for warm? And you kind of get through those first five, six holes and you get to like that seventh hole and you're like, you know what, man, I'm loose. I'm warmed up. I'm good. I can, I think I can take the hoodie off.

I got a long sleeve t-shirt on underneath this. You know, that, that moment is just, is undefeated. It's kind of why you come back. I also, I also have to report, I said this last week, I had a six match losing streak going against my nemesis, the guy that I played the most golf with here, AJ, lost again this week. So that is now a seven match losing streak. And the year is quickly running out. So I don't really know if I'm going to get another crack at it, but just wanted to update

the people there. TC, this is very exciting moment of joy because you know, Well, yeah. First of all, Neil, I lost, I think I lost four or five down. Well, no TC is this we do. Remember guest scoring rally scoring rally scoring. I think I've already two out of the last three or four holes and so he just ran out of holes.

So yeah, sure. Five up, I think. Which stops the ranch was fascinating because it was just overseated and the greens were really firm. But they're really slow too. And like really sloppy hole locations and just like sloppy greens in general. If you want to, like, I think one or two events a year

on the PGA tour should have that mentality. Yeah, I'm with you there. No, I'd be one farther TC. I think it should be, they have to carry their own bag. They can't have a caddy. Like the setup should be like what you have to do when you play municipal golf. And we should have, we should put the pros through that. Love that. You know, at the length that would challenge them, but could you find a course where you can stretch it to 7,500, but they couldn't, they'd have to carry their own bag. A lot of

strategy there. I think that'd be fascinating. I agree. This is very exciting. When TC knew we had a moment of joy, we got some new foot joys in the mail this week. He wanted to do a live unboxing for his moment of joy here. What do we got, Tron? Talk it out. We got, I believe these are from the grounds collection, which the grounds collection had me thinking about just all the places I played this year and that brilliant green. Those are sick. Those are gorgeous. Those are gorge. So stoked to get out in these golf seasons kind of just starting down here in Florida. I need to head south. I'm playing, playing a little bit, uh, going out to California

this week, actually. I'm gonna play a little bit of my bring these with us, uh, for, you know, some good golf out there. And then actually I played the park down in Palm Beach and I have very, very complicated thoughts on it that we can dig into on a future episode. I look forward to it. I need to get down there too. I'm excited to see that place. Shout out to Footjoy. Thank you for their support this week. Guys, any housekeeping stuff? We got any news and notes on the NLU universe that we got to get to here? Yeah, we got the Birdhouse. The early booking window closes tomorrow and then you'll get an email from... So basically, if you booked the Birdhouse for 2025, you'll get an email

with a link from the course to book passes. Of course, our house is in Sweetens Cove. Yeah, it's Sweetens Cove. Back better than ever. And, uh, yeah. So that's, that ends end of day Monday and then emails will go out Tuesday. So opportunities to still, what's that? Opportunities to book the house. Yeah. So early spring, late fall, or still still some good birdhouse.no, laying up.com. There you have it. I want to shout out KVV's special project on the T-time situation in LA. Just a fascinating story that I just loved him diving into and story I

had read a little bit about when it first happened, but didn't have nearly the context and the color that KVV provided. So love having him kind of turn loose on those types of projects and look forward to the next one. I've got two shout outs. One, I appreciate everyone that filled out the NLU census, got that through our email newsletter, or if you're a Ness member, awesome survey that we will share the results of, break them down on the next Ness podcast in November.

So some work ahead breaking down. Dej, I don't know, I haven't checked. It might be just over or just under 7500. So it could lead to a little TikTok dance for your boys. I hate that. So I'll keep you posted. I'll let you know tomorrow what I what I find. And then in the pro shop, we were running a promo, spend $100 and get 50% off one piece of ladies apparel. Ladies night. Ladies night, come on.

Get something for your wife, girlfriend, mother. We got some good stuff from Roeback and the women's collection. Ladies 30, all caps, that is the code. So spend a hundred, buy something for yourself. Get something for your, you know, for the special woman in your life. Why is the code ladies 30?

There's no 30 in the deal. That's interesting. That's good. Quite. Maybe we're going to make it 30% off, but I think I upped it to 50. Yeah. Yeah. I got, I got, I did.

I was like, you know, we're going to move some product or I could be wrong and maybe it's 30% off. So you got to go try it. Now I probably have you intrigued store.no laying up.com. Test out ladies 30. Please try my product. Guys. This was a blast. We've got, we've got one more little segments that we're, we're going to send it over to KVV. We're calling this one for the road. Like I said, at the top of the show, it was Gary players 89th birthday. So, uh, uh, KVV just dug up a birthday to Gary. We never said happy birthday.

Indeed. And happy birthday to my wife as well as her birthday yesterday. So guys, great being with you. Unless you have any parting shots, we will send it over to KVV. Bangalang! All right, Kev, not a lot of competitive golf in the landscape this week. We're digging deep. We're scraping the bottom of the barrel. You and I were kind of doing some planning. You said it's Gary Player's 89th birthday. I said, all right, for our first one for the road here, you take it in any direction you want, but give us something on Gary player. What do you got? Well, Dej, Gary always, whenever his birthday

comes around, he does kind of a little, a little Instagram reel, you know, where he's hitting some balls, where he's doing some jumping jacks, whatever kind of offers up some health tips on how does he live such an active life at such an old age. Now he's doing some jumping jacks, whatever kind of offers up some health tips on how does he live such an active life at such an old age. Now he's kind of says the same thing you need to go to the gym, you need to under eat, and you need to have some love in your heart. You know, the big three, big three, exactly. The under eating part got me thinking a little bit about an anecdote that I've heard for years. I think you've

probably heard this anecdote to the Gary player once made a child cry. Sometimes at the Masters, this is where the studying of this occurred, by telling that child that he needed to stop losing weight and stop eating fatty bacon, start losing weight, excuse me, and stop eating fatty bacon and white bread, and that his parents were sort of lying to him and it was a terrible, terrible thing. And the child stormed off in tears. This story has been around in media circles for many years. Some people claiming that they witnessed it. Some people claiming that they were part of the effort to sort of make sure they were right.

This was also just to clarify, this is like just kind of like on the rope line at Augusta, right? Isn't that the whole thing? It was not like a health summit or something. It was just like a true Mr. Player, how are you this morning? Like, well, let me tell you. So that is how the rumor has been for years. Obviously, you and I were not there when this occurred. We could sort of testify to it personally, but that either occurred like under the big oak tree at Augusto or on the rope line or whatever. So, you know, it got me thinking as sort of like many things involving Gary. I was wondering like if some of the details have been exaggerated over the years or if they'd morphed into other stories with bits and pieces

plastered in here or clipped and just taking out of context or whatever It didn't really fit in the storyline when we did our big narrative pod earlier share the tall tales of Gary player If you missed that I hope you'll check it out because it's really a sort of wonderful fun colorful look at Gary's life But it did seem kind of funny. It did seem something that, you know, I wanted to kind of dig into a little bit more. I just wasn't quite sure like, we didn't really need to, you know, spend a lot of time in that pod like about, you know, he's such, it was such an interesting life that spending good six, eight minutes on Gary's pension for fat shaming didn't really seem like a great use of time. Yeah. get a hint of a quote by a player that sort of speaks

the same themes early in that pod. He was doing an interview once with a journalist and after that journalist left the room, another journalist came in and this is from Today's Golfer. He told this journalist, it just amazes me to see a young man like that 50 pounds overweight. Why can't he realize that he's going to die? Such a nice young man, obviously intelligent. He has very good questions, but he is going to die. He's going to get diabetes, a heart attack or cancer. And within 10 years, he's going to die.

The doctors, they're bastards. Doctors should be saying to him, look, you're going to die. You've got to stop eating. And I find it fascinating. So I was like, you know what? For our first one for the road, I'm going to kind of dig a little bit into more of this. Like what's true and what's not true.

And then at the end, you can kind of determine as the judge of this, whether you think it is likely that this story was true about Gary or not. So in 2009, Maginella, formerly of the Golf Channel, did a little work with the Golf Digest. He did a Q&A with Gary Player that was mostly about his design philosophy in a golf course he was building in Mexico. But near the end of the interview, Janela asks Gary about this infamous rumor. He says, I have something to clear up. I once heard a story that

you went up to a kid in a gallery and told him that he was fat. Is that true? No, the player said. I never go up to any kind of kid and call them fat. I love children. My great ambition is to educate children around the world that their body is a holy temple. Did you know that 8,000 people a day in America die from obesity-related diseases? More people die of obesity than all the wars of the world put together. I don't judge a kid and tell him he is fat. Every story gets exaggerated.

I go to a kid and say, "'Son, how are you?' And he says, "'Fine.' And I say, "'You know, I love young people. And can I say something to you? I'm only, fine. And I say, you know, I love young people. And can I say something to you? I'm only telling you this because I love you,

not because I'm trying to be rude. I want to help you. My daughter was very heavy and she got rid of her weight. And today she's a healthy person. So now you must try to lose some weight. You must exercise. You must try to eat properly. It's nice, Gary said, if you can help save lives.

So kind of a denial, non-denial there. Yeah, I maybe grinded my feet on this little kid's couch. Exactly. But you know, I've felt, you know, that's just sort of like the first clue and thing. So I wanted to kind of see what was out there. Kind of did some digging, spent an afternoon getting into the archives of the SI Vault, newspapers.com.

What had been sort of reported out there? Well, in 1996, Haim Ideas did a big Gary Player profile in Sports Illustrated that year. And in fact, he says that the original rumor was in fact true. You're fat, he once told an obese boy who had asked him for an autograph. I only tell you this because your parents are afraid to hurt your feelings,

but you must change your diet. Pretty good evidence there from 1996 that perhaps this story was true. In 2014, the Pioneer Press in St. Paul had a story with the headline is harsh words from golf champ Gary Player inspire Chris Davis to lose 65 pounds. Whoa. Okay. The baseball player, not baseball player, a young man, a young golfer. The lead of the story is your fat. Gary Player bluntly told the 16 year old that was five years ago, just after the golfing

legend regarded as the game's pioneered fitness had given a short putting lesson to an attendee of a junior event in Pebble Beach. That person was Chris Davis, who is now 21 and headed into his senior year at Carroll University. For the first time since that day in 2009 Davis got to visit afternoon with the man who hit him with those blunt words. So he this guy goes to Yeah, it goes to say that, you know, Gary basically called him fat and he just completely turned his life around.

His father says he completely turned it around and became a health nut. Uh, he gained confidence. He was taken off his shirt, meeting girls, and he became even more sociable. It did tremendous wonders for his confidence. How about that? Yeah. The Chris Davis said he couldn't believe how angry he was at player that day, but he says the thing is I didn't know how honest of a person he was for him to sit there and tell me you need to lose weight. It'll help you be a better person, help you look better, help you

feel better about yourself. That really meant a lot to me. Instead of sulking and pouting, I used it as motivation. I wanted to prove to him that I could use the way lose the weight. Player in turn reacted like a proud Papa. He got a message to pass on to all future Americans. You live in this great country. You should kiss the ground every damn day you wake up and be proud of it and do something for it and not expect to get things for nothing but to earn it." He said, Davis said,

all my success, I really credit to him. It's been a great ride. I'm definitely loving my life. So we have some pretty good evidence here at each two instances that Gary Player probably told someone they were fat. In 2014, he did a Q&A with Bill Clinton as part of the Humana Challenge to combat obesity and he off-handedly brought up how fat people need to exercise or they will quote, never see their private parts again. Apologies, Mr. President. In 2016, the Daily Mail reported that Gary Player was the person who sparked Rory McIlroy's fitness regime. Rewind to seven, eight years ago at a time

when Rory had hair sticking out everywhere and puppy fat around his middle. He was struggling with a back complaint. And Gary allegedly said, you need to get fit Rory. Look at the weight you're carrying. And Gary Blair said, pinching Rory's belly. You need to strengthen your core. Player who might well be known these days

for his dedication to fitness as his nine major championships, then invited McElroy to punch him in the stomach. As you can imagine, who wants to punch a legend into his seventies Roy's first couple attempts were tentative, but he was shocked when he landed a harder blow. It was like punching a wall said Rory. You're right. I do need to get fitter. If I was worried that situation about yeah, no, you got I see it man. Let's please just stop. Dej in 2017, our friends at the loop of golf digest, they did a video piece with Gary, where he wandered around the open

championship for a day just roasting people for being overweight. Sure. What is this here? He said tugging on a man's belly at a fish and ship stand. You haven't seen your knees in the last six years. Jesus. White bread and fatty cheese on a fatty hamburger. He said to another patron, you know what? I'd rather eat the box. How many beers have you had in the day? Gary Player asked. What is this here patting his belly? When's the last time you saw your knees young man? Make me a promise. Gary Player said to a small

child after asking him to punch him several times in the stomach. You'll never have a fat stomach. In 2017, he was doing an interview interview with Instagram influencer Elise lob L O BB I'm not sure quite a pronounced her last name. But he told her a story and said in 1965, I was playing in the World Cup and I didn't have a gym to go to. I said I've got to go to the gym. I had a very fat man rooming next door to me and I thought I've got to let him sit on my back so I can do squats. He then

proceeded to ask globe to climb onto his back so he could demonstrate how he did squats with the fat man to let her to stay fit. Also in 2017, he was interviewed by our dear friend Brendan poor asked for espionage in which Brendan asked him after talking about fitness for a while. I need you to be brutally honest. How would you assess my physical fitness in a sentence or word? And Gary said, yours. Brendan said, yes, I need you to be brutally honest. And Gary said, so we're going to have a bit of fun. Well, I meet you. I noticed your stomach. You haven't seen your private parts in at

least five years. And that is a sad thing. Gary's staying on message with all these people. Very true. Brandon, as we'll say, I don't know if he credits Gary Player, but he has lost a significant amount of weight. It looks great. Best shape of his life. Yeah.

Just a couple of years ago during the par three contest, right after he was jogging down the hill and said, quote to the camera, oh, my friends are dead. Right. He picked up a small child and essentially clean and jerked him into the air. Player then pointed at an overweight guy in the gallery and said, when I play with him pointing at the fat guy, I have him stand on the right side of the green because I prefer left to right pots. It's a good one.

A few more instances. Three years ago, people were tweeting about Gary Player and one username, Murray responded about Gary getting the Medal of Freedom on January 7th. And he said, I remember meeting Gary Player as a child at Carnoustie. The only lasting memory I have was when he told me to stop getting fat and stop eating sweets. Another person chimed in later that year in 1976 as a 10-year-old. My grandfather drove me two hours to Memphis. I followed Trevino Floyd player all day.

I got autographs. Gary player gave me a lecture about staying fit because I was a fat kid. He inspired me to get a full ride to Memphis State. So I think Dej ultimately we can conclude that this anecdote is likely rooted in, I'd say 90% truth. In fact, it may have happened many times. That's my takeaway is like, not only is it true, it just is kind of his move, right? I think he sees himself as a bit of a health vigilante, right? Just, just, uh, shocking these, these little chunkers out of their stupor. I mean, that's

Gary's out there holding the line. You know, he really, I could have used a little Gary player in my life. I'll tell you what, when I was about 12, 13, I would have been formative for me. Gosh. All right. Well, happy birthday to Gary player. Kev, thank you for diving in on that. A little one for the road. I think we'll maybe we'll keep doing those. We got some of these lean weeks. You know, we'll come up with a topic and we'll just let you go nuts on, you know, let that newspapers.com subscription kind of pay for itself there. I like it. If you have a suggestion for ones to the road, you can definitely send it our way. Please do. Or send it right to Gary Player. You know, we're following everything he says

anyway. So I'm sure that that's just as good of a place to send it. Kev, thank you very much for helping us wrap up. That's gonna do it for us. Thank you to Neil. Thank you to Tron. Thank you to Titleist. Thank you to our friends at Holderness and Bourne and Pinehurst.

And we will see you guys next week. Cheers. Cheers.