No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - 946: NLU Personal Golf Spotlight - Neil

Episode Date: January 23, 2025

For this episode, we debut a new concept with the Personal Golf Spotlight - a biographical journey through the golf game of a member of our team. In this first episode, Neil takes center stage with DJ and Soly getting the Czar's WITB update, his story of learning to play as a kid while tagging along with TC, and his growth over recent years as his handicap has ticked towards the low single digits. We close the pod with Neil sticking his neck out with a personal list of the top ten courses he has played. Subscribe to the No Laying Up Podcast channel here: https://www.youtube.com/@NoLayingUpPodcast If you enjoyed this episode, consider joining The Nest: No Laying Up’s community of avid golfers. Nest members help us maintain our light commercial interruptions (3 minutes of ads per 90 minutes of content) and receive access to exclusive content, discounts in the pro shop, and an annual member gift. It’s a $90 annual membership, and you can sign up or learn more at nolayingup.com/join Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Be the right club. Be the right club today. Johnny, that's better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most! Expect anything different? Better than most. Expect anything different. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No Lying Up podcast.

My name is DJ AbsolutelyGiddy for today's episode. We've got a new idea, new structure, new concept that I think people are going to really like to help me lead the ship, steer the ship. Of course, we got my guy, Sali. Greetings, hello. Hi, hello, cannot wait. I'm weirdly, weirdly excited to talk about somebody else's golf game today, which I think is the biggest compliment I can pay our guest that you could possibly imagine.

And you know what? That word guest is important because this guy that we're gonna be joined by today, he said something a couple weeks ago that really struck me like a lightning bolt. He's often a guest on other people's podcasts and I always I absolutely Hoover them up. You might have heard him on business breakdowns. I'm you might you might have heard him on on all kinds of other things.

And what he said was, you know, I know this is a little self-serving and a little weird, but we don't really take the opportunity to be a guest on our own podcast very often. And just like, you know, often we're three, four or five co-hosts all kind of talking about the same subject today. We're going to turn the guns on one person. Sally and I are going to just absolutely pin him down, get all of his thoughts on golf. And of course, it's the merge. Our Neil Schuster Neil. Good morning.

Greetings gentlemen. Yes. How's that for a fucking intro, man? I'm excited. I'm excited. I'm a little nervous. Dej put together some good questions, but I wouldn't say I'm a frequent guest on other podcasts. I should probably say. Well,. I'm a little nervous. Deidre put together some good questions, but I wouldn't say I'm a frequent guest on other podcasts. I should probably say, well, I couldn't

think of any, I couldn't think of any others after I said this is free. I'm going to be a guest in a high school class to talk about, talk about lights. Don't be like me kids. Anyway, yes. We're just trying to think about like, I think little tweaks to our pod can make a big difference. And, you know, like we did the house meetings last year, the roundtable becomes a, you know, a little inefficient. You don't feel like you can unpack anything. So I'm the guinea pig. We're going to do a golf spotlight here on a, on my game. And you guys are, you take me wherever you want to go.

Your game and your likes and a lot of other things that not just, it's not a shot by shot of every round you've played over the last recent weeks. It's a lot. That's a lot more which I wish when we talked about this idea, I was like, guys, that's gonna be really boring. But, you know, getting into some of the questions like, oh, this is gonna be great. This could be a lot of fun.

I think so too. And, you know, of course, we are brought to you by our friends at Titleist. So, Neil, I do want to talk a little golf clubs in this episode, but first let's level set. Just let the people know where are we at. It is January 16th as we're recording this. I would imagine it's about 30 degrees up in New York. Probably not playing a lot of golf right now. So just level set for the people.

Where are we at handicap wise? And I wanna know where we at ball speed wise with the driver. Yeah, it's currently 26 degrees here in Carroll gardens. Sunny though, very nice, very nice day out the window here. So we are at a 1.9 down from a 3.8 at this time in 2024. So feel good about that. Is this the lowest you've ever been?

I think 1.7 is the lowest. So we're right, yeah, we're kind of right there. And ball speed, you know, I have not, I kind of just did some stacking with Solly when we were down at Jack's last week. So my first experience with it, I'm excited to get a little bit more into it. I think looking back, like when we pull the GC quad out,

I see that 171 ball speed number a lot. 178 is a number I've seen a couple of times. I mean, I really, if I'm in the simulator and I really want to durden one, I want you to hit me as hard as you can. I could probably get over 180, but I start to top out at like in the high one seventies and then I think one 64, one 65 is kind of that second serve ball, right? Lane one hand on the steering wheel, you know, turn it, turn up some Dave.

We're just, we're just cruising it. Yeah. And so to, to, you know, your point about the stack stuff, Sally, like if I could get the second serve into that one 70, Oh my God, forget it. That would be fun. Right. And then maybe we could, you know, maybe we could touch one 80 when we were feeling it. That would be, that would be cool. But that's, that's for the future. Right now. I'd say one 71 is kind of the number has the stack stuff. I feel like there's, there's phases of it,

and I know you barely started, you haven't even started your actual program in it, but for me, the initial curiosity was where I started, and I know I make this comp a lot, but kind of like Bitcoin, it took me a little bit of time for me to realize the end game of it, of like, oh shit, I didn't even like consider

the, you know, this output. It seemed like you've zoomed into that part of saying like, man, if I can get my cruising speed in the 170s, how different the game of golf all of a sudden looks. Yeah, I think being able to swing a club as hard as you can in a safe space, instead of like on the driving range is probably light bulb went off on that. And honestly, just the mobility stuff,

like a lot of overlap with the TPI mobility program that I got, uh, now that we've cleared our cardio goal from last year, it's time for me to like actually do some productive workouts. And so I think I'm going to get deep in the 500 miles. We did 501. We're going to get deep into the mobility stuff. That's, that is a sense. That's what this all comes down to is like, is my body going to feel good after golf? It should. And sometimes it doesn't based on like where I put my, like the position I put my back in too often.

All right. Couple of tactical questions and then we'll get into the more big picture esoteric stuff. But, uh, Neil, I just, let's start with what's in the bag. Sure. Walk us through it. What do we, what do we got right now? So we're in the GT. We'll start up top. I got the clubs here. I have a GT three GT three. I'll talk into the mic. It's set on a two. It's an 11 degree. I got bumped up to an 11 degree, which I feel really good about seeing the ball come out a much higher window has

been good for me through what's GT two. And then I got put in a seven wood. How do you feel about that? I love it. It's really good. It's really, really good. I hit it high. It's it's in talking to the title is fitters. It was like, Hey, you know, I really like the U boat and or the you know, kind of T 200, three iron two iron, but they kind of made the point of like, your launch angles too low with that. And like you should keep that club if you're going to go play in the wind, you know, or if you're going on a trip, you know, to Scotland, but for

golf in America, like you are costing yourself strokes on par fives by not getting the ball up in the air. And as Sally, as we discussed par five scoring is a priority for me this year. And I, yeah, I just really, and I don't know how to go about that goal just yet of like, well, yeah, cool. Like I want to score better on par five. Like, just don't bogey par five. Yeah, I just really, and I don't know how to go about that goal just yet of like, well, yeah, cool. Like I want to score better on par five. Like, just don't bogey par five. Cool. All right. So we don't know how we're going to get there, but it is a priority. And I think the seven would helps that priority moving down the bag. We've got a T 204 iron, which I really like. And that kind of helps the, the gapping between the seven wood and the five iron. And then from five to pitching wedge is the T 150s, which I love. I have project X 6.5, you know, pretty heavy, pretty heavy lumber in the shafts. I got the red golf pride grips.

I'm really pumped though. I'm getting my, my Columbia blue grips back, baby. We're gonna, we're gonna change the grips out this year. 48. So the pitching wedge of 44 degree, then I've got a 48 degree wedge, which I love. It's probably my favorite club. I always just feel like I feel like I hit the 48 degrees so much better than I hit my pitching wedge. Weirdly, my pitching wedge is the club in my bag that I just feel like I, I get clanky with. Then I go to nine iron, it's great, you know, it's like, but I want that club to go like 140

to 145. And I feel like I'm always like stressing to get it there, which is, I don't know, it's more like a mental thing. Like, it's no different than the Nine Iron, I just almost get in my head with pitching wedge weirdly. And then I've got 54 degree, and a 58 degree, all of them are SM 10s. So, caddy at Liberty National, I'm gonna air him out. He put my T grind in my buddy's bag. So that is up in Fort Greene.

So I've been playing the A plus grind for the last like three months, which has been good. But I wanna get my T grind back. The A plus has been nice, but I think that T04 that we took down to Australia last year, I just love that 58 degrees. So that's the setup. And then I have, um, a lot of us ended up in that 58 degree for tea. That seems to

be popular. It's so good on the grass. You know, it doesn't feel like I'm going to like middle the ball, like some wedges with the bounce. It's like, it's sitting up too much. And then I have like, I just call it the max putter. Um, yeah. Is it the 5.0? Yeah. It was a Phantom 5.0. Yeah. And I have the little like, it's not like the rolling hinge, but it's just like the little quick, like 45 degree one. Um,

and I feel like I've been, you know, overall, I'm probably too hard on myself putting, but I feel like I, I've rolled it pretty well the last six months. That's really funny. You say that. I remember when we did our first putter selection with the Scotty Cameron guys Like what you tell me man, like where you want to start? I'm like, God max's putter so cool We just can we start with that one. That would just looks just looks awesome All right. Well one more question and then Sally you take us wherever you want to go Neil

One pair of shoes in your collection you would wear every day for the rest of your life, dude I have to I have them right here. I in your collection you would wear every day for the rest of your life. Dude, I have to, I have them right here. I just unboxed the new Hyperflex. If you're telling me I have to wear one pair of shoes, do I like the way the Premieres look a little bit better? And do I like to have a little flash on my feet? For sure. But like these Hyperflexes are the most comfortable golf shoes. They're durable. And I just feel like, you know, you're glued to the ground. Yeah. I mean, if Bryson's using them, they're good enough for me, brother. And then, yeah, left, I play a left dash golf ball.

So that's probably a newish call out, right? Which is, yeah, I switched in like May 1st. So what was the first round? First round I played with it was when I beat Ben's ass at Pinehurst. You can find that on our YouTube channel. Is that the reasoning for staying in it? Because Ben beat his own ass that day. I don't know if... No, the reason for staying in it? Because Ben beat his own ass that day. I don't know if, uh,

the reason I'm in it is I find and sure this could be anecdotal, but I just find it less spinny off the tee. And I was starting to struggle with, uh, spinning the Pro V back with wedges too, like getting a lot of zip. And I feel like this golf ball has limited that like greenside spin. I don't really need that. I get a lot of spin on the ball, like through the bag. And then I went and did the driver fitting and Lucas, my guy was like, yeah, I think this is the right golf ball for you. He's like,

I don't really want to mess with the golf ball today, but he, we hit a couple of pro V's and then hit the left dash. He's like, Oh, this is, I think you're right. So, uh, self-medicated. And I think I got the right dose. So that's cool. And you're still getting plenty of height on the driver and ball's still getting up? Yes, and I think that's like, he's like, oh, we could change the club. He's like, if you like this golf ball, we can just go to an 11 degree driver.

So it's kind of like, which side of the spectrum do you want to change? So the more we do these fittings, the more I feel like I get working knowledge of this stuff. One place I want to kind of start with you, when did, how long did the phase last and when did you stop tucking a towel into the back of your pants when you play golf? Cause that was, that's kind of where I was. That was like one of the first images I have of you playing golf.

So that comes from a trip in 2016, PC and I were up in St. Eugene mission in Canada. We drove up there for a wedding shout out to Gary Marshall. And we played like, God, we played like, four rounds of golf, like before the wedding, like over the we were up there like three days early. And had this like, pretty, like bootleg casino that was actually sweet. It was like a wild west town up in like,

like just across the Montana border. But the golf course really cool. And I, I don't know, you know, what was really hot back then was all the D backs and football were tucking towels in, like instead of in front, they had them like hanging out the back. It's kind of like the mouthpieces now, you know,

they got like one sticking out of their helmet. They got one dangling from their face mask. And then they're like, you know, actually using a, it's just, it was just flare, you know? And I just decided like, Hey, why not? So that, that, that was a very, very short thing. Sorry. We didn't roast my swing on that. I think back in that, uh, 2016, exactly. I think Graham McDowell weighed in even on that. If I remember right. Let me see here. I could, I found it.

Let me see if I could. I think it was also the early days of us like selling golf towels. So you know. All right. Yeah, here it is. Such a big towel. Yeah. It's just a standard golf towel.

I mean, is this like an alignment aid or any kind of like swing aid? No, it was just like, why not? I start there just to say like your journey in golf has been kind of, uh, I, we kind of breeze past that you were essentially like a 10 handicap when we started this thing, maybe eight, maybe nine. I don't know exactly if you, if you have a memory of like what you were and like turning into like somebody that like

threatens par a lot, doesn't break it very often, if we're being honest, but of course it's been a pretty ridiculous ascension. Didn't even threaten par until a couple of years until 2019. I think it was, uh, I was a vanity nine, you know, it was back when it was like, Oh, I have a handicap, but I don't know. Like I forgot my USDA login, you know, coming out of college. Like I didn't have a handicap through college. And then I got one. It's 11th grade. Yeah. But growing up, I didn't, I never got comfortable below like 78, you know, like breaking 80 was a big, big deal for me. Cause I quit playing like competitive golf in ninth

grade. I played Atlanta junior golf, played a little bit of southeastern junior golf, never played, you know, AJ, the real AJGA. I played on the high school team ninth grade, I got such a, like, undeserved varsity letter. I played in like one event that the golf coach shout out to Ron Bell, our IP legend. He was like a historically good basketball coach in Georgia. And he coached the golf team to just like for fun. I was a good basketball player. So I think he just kind of like put me into a varsity event, just like, cause I went to

private school. So if you didn't have a letter jacket to wear blazer. So getting that letter freshman year was a big deal. So you could hit, you know, once you got out, once you got into like winter uniform and sophomore year, your boy was in a letter jacket. That was, that was, uh, like social, uh, social cache, some cloud score stuff there. So he gave me, you know, he let me play in this like just like barely varsity event. I think I probably shot like 87 and then he was like, no, cool. You, you, you, you played on the varsity. You get the letter. So I was like, okay. And then I didn't play golf. That was the last season I played because then I got into football and I quit basketball. That's something going into sophomore year. And I played

lacrosse for a couple of years and I went back to basketball as a senior. But I would continue to play in the summer, play golf. And again, I always say like, it's like an instrument. I learned it young, I took some really good lessons, followed TC out to the course. And you know, so then I, when I came back to it after college, I remember going to like the Columbia football, like there's an alumni outing every year, first, first Monday of May at Hackensack golf course. And you know, they asked some of us like seniors to play

in it and it's a scramble and I just, you know, I could still hit the ball and all my buddies, none of them could play golf. They all sucked. And I was like, Oh, this is great. Like, what do you mean you can't the golf ball? You know? So then that's, and yeah, then you can come back to it. So it's, it's a great thing to learn as a kid. What would you attribute this rise to the most? You know, what was the biggest lesson you learned? What was it? Just reps? What was the, how did the handicap melt away if you had to distill it down? Well, I think I've always approached it as I had some pretty good fundamentals

in, in other sports too. Like it was always important to me in basketball that I had good shooting form. I remember as a kid, like in fourth or fifth grade, I worked under the hoop. I would shoot 500 just like, you know, beef, balance, elbow elevation, follow through. Like, so I was always like kind of addicted to having like, I want my form to look good. And I think that was the same thing as a kid with golf. So I always had a pretty good foundation of like,

hey, left arm's gotta be straight. You know, you turn your shoulders under your chin, like all that jazz. So then when you come back to it and I got this big, you know, this big right miss, I had this big slice for, you know, let's start in like 2014 when we started, I started playing in San Francisco, then NLU gets going. It gives you a foundation to build on. And then some of it's just like being around you guys, you know, like solid starting to go like when we went to Australia, I played horrible. Like

I played terrible on that first tour of sauce season. Same with, you know, California, same with Ireland. And then you start to be like, okay, we got to make some changes here. Like you can't try to kill it every time. Like on a golf trip, eight day golf trip, you got to like dial it back a little bit, like start to find the fairway. So I started to just think differently. I think that was some of it. And then playing some seriously real golf courses to kind of like teaches you golf, like real good architecture is going to teach you like, Oh, oh gosh, here's how I kind of need to play it and think. I would actually argue, I don't disagree with that. But

personally, and this is still the case for the last 10 years, I would say I average maybe three or four courses that I play more than once in a year, which is a crazy thing to think about. It was a little bit different with Jack's Beach down in Florida. But like, that leads you crazy thing to think about. It was a little bit different with Jack's Beach down in Florida, but like that leads you to, I think when you have a home course that you play all the time, you can kind of, it can be a crutch.

It's like, oh, well, you know, I'm just gonna hit this little slidey four iron off this tee, versus like every time you go play a course for the first time, you don't know, you know, what not to do. And so you're forced to execute like hard, you're forcing yourself to execute shots, you probably shouldn't. But I think that probably improves your like your game. Like, okay, I'm going to

try to hit driver here, you know, and peel one around the corner. And then you get up there, like, that was stupid. But a lot of times, you know, more often than not, it probably works out and you just you don't have any scar tissue from it. So the point I'm making there is I think as my handicap started to drop, it went from like early, like 2014, yeah, I'm a nine. It's like, yeah, fucking nine, you know, like you just want to say you're a single digit to like, yo, I'm a pretty dangerous four, you know,

or pretty dangerous five because I'm costing myself two or three strokes every time I play just because I don't know what I don't know it on these courses. If you go all the way back, what's your earliest golfing memory? So I have two. The first one is Tron and I lived in Canada for two years from 1994 and we came back a week before the Olympics to Atlanta in 1996 and I was five six years old. Up in Canada. I remember doing a golf clinic at a driving range, crappy driving range. And it had a, I don't really remember the clinic, but I remember it had a, a pup, putt course and it had a top gun theme and the pup, putt course had a real sand in the bunkers. And I just thought that

was so cool that I was like, Oh, look, this is like a real course, you know, like TGO. Yeah. Yeah. But playing off real sand on the miniature golf course, it was, it was, it was wild. So that's memory. Number one, the actual real golf memory was we grew up in, you know, in Dunwoody, Atlanta, north of Atlanta, a suburb. And we were cool and tennis members at Dunwoody country club up until like, so when we came back in 96, probably until like 99 or 2000. And then my dad got the golf membership because more so because. Tron wanted to play. Like he was, he was into it. I was a really good tennis player as from like third grade to sixth grade.

I was like, you know, that was my best sport. My dad still says, he's like, ah, if you wouldn't, you know, that, that was, that was your, that was your game. I was a lefty. I was, I was just like good at it. And, but I wanted, you know, Tron starts playing golf. I started following lefty. I was, I was just like good at it. And, but I wanted, you know, trying to start playing golf. I start following him to the golf course. So in third grade, I remember we were still like social members or tennis members, but they would let in the summer on Friday mornings at 7am, they would let juniors, whether the family was a golf

member or just a pool and tennis member, juniors could go off number 10. And if you were, I think it was like fifth grade and up, you could play all 18. But then like I was allowed to play nine holes. And I remember that first round, you know, looking back, waking up for golf was like the only thing you get me out of bed for sure. So it's like 6am. I'm like, I'm ready. Let's let's get up there. Easiest way to wake up in the morning.

Oh my god, still. I'm managing your golf events in the summer, like I'm up at 530, like cleaning my clubs, you know, my mom always used to laugh about that. So I go out and play, I had a set of that way. I'm managing your golf events in the summer. I'm up at 530 cleaning my clubs. My mom always used to laugh about that. So I go out and play. I had a set of five clubs. I don't even remember, maybe US Kids. I don't even remember what brand they were.

But I had a driver, a four iron, a seven iron, shitty wedge, and a putter. I had this like snake eyes putter that my mom was from my mom's set. And I remember I teed off from the forward tees and I got to hit the best drive. And then I just chunked it, chunked it, chunked it, chunked it, you know, and, and TC, you know, I'm playing with him and a couple of older kids and he's

already like, pick it up, man. Like you're slowing me down. Like I can't believe mom made me bring you out here. Don't embarrass me in front of my friends, you know? So that was kind of the vibe early on in my golf career. And then we got the golf membership probably two years later, which is interesting because like your, your parents don't really play, right? I was like, I'm going to go to college. I'm going to go to college. I'm going to go to college. I'm going to go to college. I'm going to go to college. I'm going to go to college. I'm going to go to college.

I'm going to go to college. I'm going to go to college. I'm going to go to college. I'm going to go to college. I'm going to go to college. I'm going to go to college. I'm going to go to college. I'm going to go to college.

I'm going to go to college. I'm going to go to college. I'm going to go to college. I'm going to go to college. I'm going to go to college. I'm going to go to college. I'm going to go to college. I'm going to go to college.

I'm going to go to college. I'm going to go to college. I'm going to go to college. I'm going to go to college. I'm going to go to college. I'm going to go to college. he just doesn't have the patience and focus for it. But he enjoyed going out and watching, you know, playing with us and seeing us get better. And then so we got that golf membership. And then again, I just kind of followed TC, like he ended up getting, you know, getting good and into it. And so he starts doing Atlanta junior golf. So I'm like, Oh, I, I should do that. That was a great experience. You have to take the rules seminar. So you learn the game like the right way. You learn to play competitively. We went to George Kellenhofer for like three or four lessons.

That was David Duvall's coach. And he was up off of 85 Northeast of the city at this double-decker driving range. And he used to pump these like VHS tapes into the machine. And he would draw the yellow lines on Duvall's swing. And so that's kind of the foundation that I learned. It was like swinging it like Duvall, like getting that shoulder, getting that full turn. By this point, I was playing my mom's.

I would not classify your swing as looking like David Duvall. Well, T.C. on the other hand, with his head. But I had a really good move as a, I'd say fifth, sixth grader of like, I hit a draw. I didn't play a driver for years. I played a three wood off the tee and I would just hit this like lazy draw. And I would, I had a big length, like long swing. I want to like over parallel. I just, I think I've just lost flexibility with, you know, working out for football and stuff. So the swing, my swing has definitely changed a ton since then. All right. I got a question for you on this topic. How do you take this in any

direction you like? How do you feel about being a country club kid? Because I did not grow up at a country club. I have a kid now. I belong to a country club. Just always, I've always, always thought about this and I'm curious as a, what are you 35, 36? How do you, how do you, how do you reckon with this? I'm not ashamed of it at all. Dunwoody Country Club was, it's now like a city club. Like because Atlanta's grown so much,

it's now very, very sought after membership, which is funny because back when my parents first moved to Atlanta in like 1988, it was like kind of the sticks and they were like begging for people to join. The course was, you know what it was? It was convenience. We literally lived behind the seventh green, like one street over. So I would ride my go-ped up there. And so for my mom, it was like, great.

Like I'd be gone in the summer, like probably fourth, fifth, sixth grade. I'd go up there all day with Pat Steelman, my, who was my neighbor, good friend of mine. And now he's a member there. So he's stuck around, he lives down the street. But we used to, we play golf first thing, in that junior time, and then we'd go to the pool and then we'd come back and hit balls. Maybe we could sneak out for another nine holes, if the tea sheet was empty.

It's sweet, man. Does it suck that country clubs are expensive and exclusive? I think that's more honestly more of a modern thing in some ways, or like the last 1015 20 years because they're not building any more of them. The only courses getting built are resort courses, or like, you know, billionaire and I want to just have 100 members, which is, you know, that's, that's fine. There's just not, there was still land

in these suburbs to build golf courses. And Dunwoody was one, I think, a rare one in Atlanta that was not built as part of a planned subdivision. It was kind of like, it's a self-contained course. There's some houses on the outside, but it's kind of like, it's, it's a nice place. So looking back, I'm like, man, what a, what a sweet setup. But it wasn't like my, you know, my dad did a TC and I's dad did, did well, but he was not like chasing a status thing. He was like, Oh no, my kids want to play golf. Like I should probably summer. Yeah. And so, and it was so close that it was, uh, it made sense. I think. And that's what's funny about just thinking about my own childhood is like, I grew up at a very

much in the sticks, very small town that just happened to have this like really nice golf course at it, but nobody ever came and played it. So it was essentially empty. I lived across the street as well. And as you're describing that, I'm like, oh, that's like, yeah, that's what my setup was too. Like you could just ride your bike down the street. Nobody was there. You kind of have your run of the place. And so, And that's just part of like the golf scene in Atlanta. The public scene is a disgrace. And so, you know, did I play a lot? I played a lot of Chastain with friends as I got into high school, just for fun. And it was like, Oh, this isn't as good of a setup. I should just go to Dumbwitty.

Like my parents, you know, once they got the golf membership, they just, they've kept it. Now my mom plays a lot. And so it's, they've been members there for longer than I've been alive, which is crazy, but they didn't get the golf membership, they just, they've kept it. Now my mom plays a lot. And so it's, they've been members there for longer than I've been alive, which is crazy, but they didn't get the golf membership until 2000. So, and now they've redone that course. I mean, the club now is like a, it's, it's like a big number to join, you know, all that stuff. And, um, so we, I think it's like anything in life. It's timing, you know, it's like if you bought land in Monterey in 1940, it was not expensive back then. But it makes

sense as a move now, probably not. But at the time you kind of grandfathered in it's, it's, it's very different. And listen, I like, I would love to join a golf club, like right now, I'd love to have a club. But what matters to me is I need to be within 1015 minutes of it, or else I'm just not going to use it. And it would be, and the number around here in the tri-state area, it ain't happening until it's like, yo, I'm going to, I'm going to be here like four times a week.

You know, so we don't have any ads on this podcast on this episode. Like how are we going to possibly be a hundred percent? No. Cause I've, you know, I've had a few people be like, Hey, maybe you should think about doing the junior membership here. And you're like, dude, that's like a, you know, that's a big number. What if I moved to the other side of town? Can I, if what have I moved to New Jersey, can I be a national member? Nah, it doesn't work like that. All right. Well then I, you know, what I like to join. Yeah. But it just doesn't make any sense. Do I get my money back if I leave? No, definitely not. Absolutely. So yeah. And I don't, and I'm not around of golf. The other thing with, with clubs is like, I'm much more into, I don't really care that much about like who designed the course. It's

like, yo, is it in good shape? Are there 18 holes? Does it have a grass driving range? Like I'd probably be pretty happy anywhere. Even if that was a public course, if it came down to like, yo, there's a public course 10 minutes away, you could get like a monthly deal for, or there's a club 20 minutes away, I'll probably just be like, yo, I'm gonna go to the public course. Like, I do not care. If you can get the tea time. That's the thing. That's that's Yeah, exactly. Can I get a tea time? That's that's the really the thing that matters. That's the hardest thing I find today. I just growing up being adult, especially inserting kids into the equation, like there's just not the flexibility to get out and play like gifts. You pay for the convenience of like, dude,

if, if I can decide this afternoon, I can go play it is too late for me to get tea time at Jack's Beach. But you know, if I have a club that I can go play at, like that's what you're that's what you're buying out of. I mean, so there's a the crappiest driving range in the Northeast Mount freedom, driving range out by my in-laws. So it's probably it's north like Mendham, I guess the town is Mount freedom, but Mendham kind of up in that like west of the

city. It is like a like a cow field, but like the guy lets you hit off grass. And so I'll go out there and I get so much joy out of just banging balls off of grass. I so I'll go out there and I get so much joy out of just banging balls off of grass. I just, I don't like hitting off a mats and you know, you can buy like a bucket of like 200 balls for 20 bucks and just spend two hours just like, yo, that's all I need. I don't need a whole lot more than that. Like would I like it to be a little nicer shirt, but I don't need it to be, and I don't need to wear and no offense to anyone, but I really don't need to wear a club's logo on my belt or my shirt.

You know, when I, when I fly, you know, it'd be like, yo, yo, really? Is that, is that how you, are you balling like that? It's like, no, man, I don't need that shit. God, the airport is such a specific great time. I mean, I'm so attuned to it. You got the carrying little leather, a leather shuffle bag from the member guest. You've got the, you know, ask me about my club. Basically.

Yeah. Just going to say, Oh, you know, for me coming to Newark, Ooh, Balty, huh? You know, go ahead and ask me about it. Very cool. So Baltas Crawl is catching a stray there. I won't, I won't detonate anybody else. It's a good logo at least. I don't know if you think about golf this way or if you if you if you kind of post

up like, you know, a pyramid of things you want to accomplish and what the top thing on there would be. But if I was to say, what do you want to achieve? What's a goal that would make you like the happiest to achieve in golf? Where's your mind go? This is a this is a prescient question or a good one, because I've it's been on my mind a lot more the last year than it has the previous five. I think if you asked me last year, or two years ago, be like, I want to break par, you know, but that's such a short term, like,

thing. And the older I get, the more value I place on consistency. I would like to be a plus handicap. I think that would be a really not the final mountaintop, but a really good mountaintop for me. I'd be like, all right, that would be kind of like, all right, we did it, you know, because that felt that's always felt so far away. And then all of a sudden, you know, you're at kind of a 1.8. You're like, man, that's, you know, now I'm going to have to break par more often. But I think I need to stop saying like, I want to break par. It's like, no, I want to break park like more often. You know, it should be like on my goals list was like, let's break par three times this year, instead of placing all this pressure on one

time. You know, it's almost like flip the script a little bit. And then I think the other one now is like, I would love to like long term win an MGA event or the NIT. You know, those are the kind of the two things like, or if I moved like whatever my local golf association is, I don't need it to be a, you know, USGA event, like maybe qualifying for something nationally would be cool long-term, but these MGA events have been really fun and they give you a built-in like set of goals

because you get out there and you start to look around and you're like, man, I'm hitting it just as good as this guy, yeah, he beat me by three strokes today or six if we're talking about my guy, Harrell Deege, but it's like, yeah, I'm hitting it just as good as this guy. Yeah, he beat me by three strokes today or or six if we're talking about my guy Harold Deege, but it's like, yeah, I'm blowing it by him. Can I just control my golf ball a little bit? Can I make this easier on myself? That's what I know I talk about tournament golf a lot. But like,

do you just you getting like a taste of it is so great. It like it. It's kind of everything like you don't you don't need to play a lot of it just to have that as like, you have to have some kind of golf that counts for real. Like for real. And for a lot of people, like, it's pretty easy. Like my for real golf is my Saturday morning game. And it just becomes, you do it so often, there's no pressure on it.

And it's really fun, but like, it's a different thing to go sign the card, play with strangers, like play with different styles of players and play under tournament rules. And then like taking that back to normal golf is what makes it's just it's almost like a baptism of some kind of you kind of can't go once you've like

learned that and done that the rest of golf is going to be different for you forever as well. Especially on you I got a little bit of that like member guests are great. And it's always fun to be like kind of in the running for, like I had a good run with this guy, Jim Glenn at the Rockaway hunting club member guests, you know, got down to the final group ever, you know, in that like 200 people are watching you come down 18 and,

and you know, people are throwing up all over themselves. Yeah, basically, you know, you know, maybe your partner's shanking a wedge from 80 yards, you know, and then then lipping out a par save. Sick. So you feel it a little bit there, but there's, I don't think there's a replacement. So you and I are kind of wired the same way.

Like I like the, you know, maybe I'm a weirdo, but I like the personal competition, you know, when it's just you out there and it's like, okay, what, what, how good can I get at this? So yeah, I think the thing I love about, how good can I get at this? So yeah, I think the thing I love about golf the most, it has been the competitive outlet for me since my other athletic endeavors have, I've retired from first football and then, you know, rec league hoops. Yeah. We see, I had to, I had to hang them up in the, in the New York city league. Just we can't be blown out in Achilles, you know, it just can't have it. So, so yeah, golf, golf's the competition golf and tennis, and I've gotten

back into tennis, but I love to compete. So that's, that's kind of what I'm looking to do. So what's the path to being a plus, and I'm not going to let you answer make less doubles, no, no doubles. You always, you always say that you're always, you know, no doubles, no, blah, blah, blah, my, I don't think that's, I don't think that's the answer. That's not the path you're always, you know, no doubles, no blah, blah, blah. I'm like, I don't think that's the answer. That's not the path. That's the result. That's a result. But what's the actual path to getting to plus? You know, I think working on my wedge, my approach, like,

so I hit the ball far enough where, okay, what number do I have? 80% of the time, if I hit a good drive, I'm going to have between 60 and let's say 120. And that's really three clubs. I'm hitting one of the 58, 54, or the 48 from there. And it's kind of three, can I get my clock system dialed? I think would be capitalizing on scoring opportunities. I mean, you would say like, I think I have started to limit the doubles. But the data boys would tell you like, yo, everybody thinks like, I need to make more birdies to be better. It's like, no, you have to like limit the bad holes.

It's right. It just would say it's here's here's the thing. There's another question that Deidre kind of lobbed in here into our agenda, which is like, if you could ask a genie for one thing about your golf game, what would it be? And, you know, what my answer to that is like, I think the data boys would say, Oh, proximity, you know, hit your wedges better, like get better, get inside the 15 foot circle, you know, and give yourself, you know, whatever 40% chance to make it

or 50% chance to make it. I think there, though, there's like, if I could ask the genie, it's, it's kind of a mental thing for me. I, I have never been comfortable since junior golf making birdies. They are always a big deal for me. And Sally, when I play with you, I always notice how you can go on a heater. Like if you're feeling it, like you are like from 10, 12 feet, it's like, God, that putts going in. That's a bird, another birdie putt. And I almost in the opposite, like we were playing last week at Tim McQuana and I had a, I made

a birdie on the first par five. We come into the second par five, played it great. I got a four and a half footer and I'm over that ball. I'm just like, I have bad things going there. There are bad things going on. Yeah. Oh is a bird. Oh, you're going to be about to make two your par five scoring average off to a great start. And then I just fucking miss it, you know, and it's like, what are you doing, dude? Like, and so I don't really know what like the fixes for that a little bit other than just like, yeah, put yourself in that position more often. But I have a lot of

rounds where I feel like, man, I'm getting a lot of five to 10 foot birdie putts. And I'm, the more I get, it almost like builds this pressure of like, Oh, another one. Like, and there's like this weird voice in my head of like, Oh man, you're bound to miss one of these. The odds would tell you that not all of these are going to go in. And whereas with par putts, I think it's, it's a completely different thing. I'm a little freed up. It's like, oh yeah, let's just try to, let's try to bury this and save it. You know, it's so I don't know that. I don't know if I'm explaining that properly, but it's a little bit. Sorry.

Like your, your thoughts on like be comfortable going low. Don't be scared. Like, but I get into these, it's just birdies are still like, um, uh, you know, like a little kid, like, oh my God, I have pretty putt. And it's like, yeah, man, it's not that big of a deal anymore. Well, it's 1.8 handicap. You should have birdie putts. The answer to that though is, is honestly like just better ball striking, like and get in just giving yourself two more

birdie putts per round, not even like great opportunities, but in two doesn't sound like a lot, but on average, over the course of a year, your handicap will fall multiple shots if you're giving yourself two more birdie putts per round, right? So I think I'm on the right track. I'm saying like, yo, if I, you know, in working with John Sherman on the game improvement video, it's like, yo, this is in the offseason. I used to think like, I don't want to hit wedges at

the simulator, like it's turf. And he's like, No, that's exactly what you should be doing. You should know exactly how far 60 yards is and 65 and 75. And how can I hit it with, you know, because like, if you feel like you can hit 75 with a 58 and a 54 with different trajectories, like that's going to translate really well. Like you might not hit it exactly on the course, but you're going to get like, he's like, you're, you're going to

get so much better because then all it depends on is like, Hey, you're going to have good days off the team but you're going to get like, he's like, you're, you're going to get so much better because then all it depends on is like, Hey, you're going to have good days off the tee and you're going to have bad days. You know, hopefully like it's a little bit more consistent, but I'm the kind of golfer where like some days I am just striping the driver. And it's like, okay, on those days, it's like, yo, don't miss these opportunities with wedges and hit it from 95 yards. You're hitting it to 20 feet.

It's like, that's just not good enough. Yeah. The data, you might send the data boys after you on that. Well, that's a good point. Like, don't, I guess don't make some unforced error with wedge. That's everything. Don't hit it in the back bunker. Don't miss the green.

Let's put it that way. That's where I think like, I,, some of the most helpful advice I've ever gotten it was publicly on the podcast with Mark Brody of like, Hey, you're a blah, blah, blah handicap. How would you advise them getting better at golf? And he said, practice shots from 150 yards, like wear out on the range from 150 yards. And I went straight to the range and started doing that. And like it became like, all right, I'm not going to hit it perfect from 150 yards every time. I'm not going to stuff it, but I know what the ball is doing. Like I, from a, I can hit a nine iron and if, you know,

if it's a little help and it's hot, I can maybe hit a wedge there, but I can get the ball from 150 yards. I can hit the middle of the green feels like every time. It's not literally every time, but I can do that from there going down to wedges is just like, oh, I mean, I could do it from 150. You put me at 120, I absolutely can hit the middle of this green and leveling up to like, all right, if I got seven iron here, it's time to be conservative. Like 150 is my number, like that's my go-to.

Like if I'm hitting the green with seven iron, I feel great. It's where I feel like if you wore out 150 shots to the point where like you're not, I don't mean literally, you're gonna make mistakes, but you're not making mistakes from there. Everything from below that honestly feels pretty simple. And it really, you've gotten so much better at making golf boring. And I think you still have like some uncharted

territory in terms of like, how simple good golf is. And you can get your hand caught. I don't say hand caught in the cookie jar a little bit other than like losing focus sometimes from 100 yards and making a fatal error is kind of where I would say a gap between you and some of the tournament guys that I see play. I'm not even saying myself, but like those dudes just don't make the same frequency of errors. Well, and I see it a lot like basketball. And when I was, I

was very good in like middle school at basketball and you know, it comes from practice, like the minute you I used to shoot so many three pointers that they became like top of the key, I'm going to make that like I'm expecting this to go in, even though it's like, yeah, you're shooting 30%. It's like whole open three from the from certain spots. That is fucking going in. You know what I mean? I don't know if I have that feeling with wedges and I want that feeling.

That's very, that's kind of what I'm trying to, trying to maybe explain here is I, it's almost like I've had that feeling in another sport and I want to have it here. I will, I will second John's thing on the simulator wedges. The best I've ever hit my wedges was a couple of years ago. And just all I would do is it was when I moved up here and I had going to take the 10 o'clock swing. The clock system thing works for me. Like let's keep it super simple and almost like a real time thing. Like,

I'm going to take the 10 o'clock swing and I'm going to take the 10 o'clock swing. And I'm going to take the 10 o'clock swing and I'm going to take the 10 o'clock swing. And I'm going to take the 10 o'clock swing and I'm going to take the 10 o'clock swing. And I'm going to take the 10 o'clock swing and I'm going to take the 10 o'clock swing. And I'm going to take the 10 o'clock swing and I'm going to take the 10 o'clock swing. And I'm going to take the 10 o'clock swing and I'm going to take the 10 o'clock swing. And I'm going to take the choke up on this one and I'm going to take the 10 o'clock swing. Like the clock system thing works for me. Like, let's keep it super simple and almost like militant. And, but it, cause I don't need, like, I'll put the ball back in my stance to make better contact. Like I'm no longer,

I think for a little bit with golf, I was addicted, not addicted, but I was, I had this habit of like, I want to hit the perfect shot. And now I've definitely graduated to like, dude, just hit just like, hit the green. Yeah, put it back. If you're not hitting it, if you're not striking it well, like, just move it back and inch in your stance and just like, let's get solid contact and you know, you kind of know what that ball is going to do. So I feel like you would benefit kind of almost the same no pin

challenge that we did with DJ several years ago of like, you set out, Ben and I have tried I've messed around with this. I don't know if I've ever said it on the pod, like created this little internal scoring system of just giving every full shot a zero or one grade. So basically, it's kind of like, would you want to mulligan on that one or not? Like if you hit a driver in the fairway, it's all I mean, unless it hit a tree and popped out, whatever, like that's a one like if you drive along for that's a one. And if you hit it

on the green, that's a one. Like if you drive a ball in the fair, that's a one. And if you hit it on the green, that's a one. And like, I'll give myself extra credit. If you hit one to two feet, I'll count it as two points. But just, you play golf that way, just like count how many good shots you hit. Like 20 is like a decent day. When you get in the upper 20s, it's like, dude, that's, like that removes, like putting is volatile

and is gonna vary. I'm like from every single player in the world. Like it's just kind of hard to be an amazing putter every day. You're going to have days where you hit it okay and putt great. Your numbers are going to look great, but there's no way to get of getting better

without tangibly hitting the ball better consistently. And which I'm totally bought in on. I just think sometimes the, when I bring up like the putting mindset thing, there's just a little bit. It's almost like this monster under the bed on birdie putts that maybe I'm maybe I'm just like, it's that that's that basketball feeling I was just talking about. It's like, Oh, God, I'm you know, I got a

little bit of a, you know, mental hurdle to cross there. But you but you're right. It's like, yo, just get more opportunities. That's it. That's that's literally getting eight less of an issue. If you're getting eight birdie putts and only three of them are really good looks, you're going to feel the pressure over those three. Yeah.

Whereas if you're getting 12, 13 technical putts, like by the math, you're probably going to get four to six that are really good looks. And like you might make three of them. And that obviously like me, I made three birdies today. Like that was pretty solid little round. Whereas like again, it took some tournament play to realize like these guys just keep hitting good shots. They don't make every putt. Whereas like, again, it took some tournament play to realize like these guys

just keep hitting good shots. They don't make every putt. They absolutely do not make every putt, but they're hitting better shots than I do. And you tally up their birdies at the end of the day. It's like, Oh shit. I mean, that guy gave himself like 14 decent looks. Yeah. And I know he had a couple par fives where he too putted for birdie, you know, it's like that's that yet. So that's where the par five scoring comes in. I love it. Make it easy on yourself, brother. Have you, have you gone back and read any more of Pia and Lynn's books? I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like my I felt like I had like locked in syndrome. You know, I just like I was just trapped in my own head.

I couldn't actually like, you know, externalize anything. I was like, God, I need to do something. We can't ever do that again. And I went back and read every shot must have a purpose. It's so good. I think I just it feels like it should be like a once a year type of type of read. So it seems like they saw they have the same scoring system type of game in there. A lot of like daily, you know,

like what's your playing purpose like over every shot, Neil, like, I know you're, you're big on this, but they get very specific about, you know, going, walking into the play box, as you know, uh, in, on every shot is like, you set an intention for the day. So it might be, I'm going to visualize every shot before I hit it. And it, or something like that. And it's just like a constant check back into where it's like, it's not like, oh, the open swing on a par five, where there's no trouble and I can swing as hard as I can. And the, oh, I have a six footer for

birdie. Like you treat those exactly the same way uh, not a master at it by any means, but it's a good thing. I mean, their stuff's always made sense. It's just, it's, it's so reliant on consistency that it's so easy. But like, ah, well I, I'm already out of the playbox, you know, and what's hard too is like, you also, it's like sometimes their stuff's like mentally exhausting. You really got to train it. Yes, for sure. I've talked to Toronto about this a lot too. And like, this is a separate conversation probably, but you also don't want to turn golf into like a boring math equation either. Right. Like it is supposed to be like an artistic fun, you know,

like can I hit the shot or not type of like, you know, exhilaration as well. So it is, there's a constant battle in that, which I actually, you know, it's part of like what makes golf great, but you can, if you, if you truly, you got to decide what you care more about. Is it like, I want to have fun on the golf course and have highs and lows and peaks and valleys and you know, whatever, or I really fucking care about this number that's in this app and I really want to get it down. And both of them are totally valid and I, I can't commit to either one of those. And I think I have just been stuck in the middle for years now. I've gotten a lot out of like John Sherman's four foundations of golf. It's a little bit more practical, I think for like an everyday golfer.

I mean, P and Lynn stuff is like kind of the benchmark for me, but hit some, like something I've taken away from him is, and I think I did a really good job of this last year, is like not giving up on rounds, which I think would help. Like I think is a big reason why my handicap fell is because in years past, it's like, well, yep, there's a double and I'm, you know, like, get me off the ride. I want to go home. And instead it's like, no, like you start to create game, a game within the game. I think that's all the scoring system. He was talking about it. You know, it's like, I can still get to 15. I can still get to 18. And then that keeps your mindset better.

And it's like, stop looking at everything as this like 18 hole painting. And you know, try to break it up into smaller chunks. Where I was going with that, all that stuff is where, this is like for me personally, saying like, if I go over to marsh landing here, first hole, I can, like, you can kind of see all the trouble on that pretty easily and things can go wrong really quickly.

But if I'm good, if I'm in a good mental spot and like my mindset is I need the ball on the green and regulation, all of a sudden my eyes go towards where I want to hit the ball and where, how, what's my, all right, I can hit it on from 140, 130, 120, 110, 100, and I can hit it from on from any of those spots. But if I don't have that kind of focus, I'd be like, all right, let's rip driver over there

and try to give myself 70 yards in. And that brings in a whole other group of equations. And it just takes like, that's the kind of shit that I find fascinating is it takes like, what you're just saying, it takes so much mental discipline to have that every time. And it just doesn't, even though I feel like so, I have the answers to a lot of these questions and I cannot put them into practice. Yeah. Yeah. Like so I'm playing at the Publinks and you know, I'm basing a lot, you know, whether this is good or bad. A lot of times I'm basing what club I'm hitting off of what the guy in my groups hitting. Like, all right, I'm, you know, as the round gets going, you're playing 36 holes with, you know, the same guys, like

I hit it about 20 yards past these old guys. Great. 25. So it's like, all right, if they're hitting three wood, I better, you know, now I got to pay attention, you know, and even when they're hitting driver and then, you know, you pull up the, the gin app and you can see like here, I can hit it here. You know, you can, they kind of have the map so you can like take a look. And it's like, okay, like sometimes, oh, guess what my point is? Sometimes I don't believe it. I'm like, so I could hit four iron and have 140 in

and then you look up, you're like, that's not true. I should hit three wood. You know, like I know that's so stupid to say out loud, but it's like, I mean, I don't know. I don't think four iron is gonna go that far. You know, like that does that. Are we playing the right and then you start looking like did they move the T's up? Am I you know, and so I think sometimes like trusting the discipline of like, no,

just like just hit fucking four iron dude, like you don't need to like, try to thread something here in a competitive round. It's like and John Sherman was saying to me in our our video, like, spend the night before and just write down, like, go through that map and just say like, okay, number two, the play is to hit four, like have the make the decision, the decisions already made when you start the round. Like, so a little bit of prep, he's like a little bit of prep for competitive golf goes a long,

long way because it almost takes pressure off, you're gonna have to make a bunch of other decisions like what to hit out of the trees when you miss the fairway. He's like, so like the decisions you can make ahead of time can make a massive difference. So that, that also resonated with me. What would you say? I mean, of course you broke par.

Uh, you stole the thunder in my wedding. I don't want anybody to talk about my wedding as a you broke part of the day before. Uh, I don't know if this would be that round, but what is the most complete round of golf you think you've ever had? That was certainly not the most complete round. I started off with a double, like first hole.

What Rental said too, was it? Most complete round of golf, and it's hard, it wasn't really a round, but I played 36 holes of what I would call flawless golf at the Roos Club Championship at Sweetens Cove this year. So it's nine hole course. So, you know, I lapped it four times from different T's, you know, so it was kind of different pins, different T's, but I, you know, I played that course probably a hundred times now and it's a really happy place for me. And, but you can still get yourself in trouble.

Like that place goes into doing stupid stuff. And I just played, I shot one under over 36 holes and I did not make a double bogey. And it was just like, talk about boring golf. I took advantage of number three, I made hay there. I didn't get myself into trouble on number six. I played number seven really smart. So it's just, I think that recently that's been the most complete round of golf I can think of.

Because of the 36 holes, I've never done that over that amount of golf to be like, man I am just kind of cruising right now. Like this feels like autopilot. And I think one of those nine holes was like two over and one of them was three under, you know what I mean? So it wasn't perfect golf, but there were no doubles in there. No train wrecks, pretty sensible stuff.

I can't get out of here without giving you a couple of analogies. I know you're a big analogy guy. We've thrown this one out in the past. And I'm just curious if the answer has changed. If your golf game was a car, what kind of car would it be? Well, I have to go back to football. Uh, in football, I always said I was the, the crown Vic for the Vic, the victimizer, the police cruiser. It wasn't pretty, but it was sneaky fast, durable as fuck, pretty easy to fix. I didn't get too banged up. Stay in the fight and then just kind of always cruising around,

like just looking for the ball, like looking for trouble as a free safety. Like, Hey, what are you guys doing over here? Guys loitering over here? Huh? You know, just kind of maybe pulling in for backup, you know, getting the call over the radio. So like I was never the flashiest football player, but I definitely like, you know, I used the brush guard well.

You know, I had all the supplies in the trunk. It accessorizes as well. Yes, exactly. And then, and you know, someone intimidated, I was pretty big safety. So I was like, Oh, okay. That guy's like, you know, it's not like undersized back there. Like, okay, he, he might, he might be able to come downhill. Uh, in golf, I, you know, I was thinking about this this morning and I'm going to give a shout out to BMW. I think X five, I think it's solid all around. Good brand, you know, like the swing looks good. Like everyone's like, Oh, that's, you know, like good, good sway. Oh, man, that guy,

Neil's got a good swing. I think it looks, it looks good on the T, you know, the, the, the checkbook doesn't always balance, but like, you know, I can make an 81 look good and be like, ah, dang, you can, like a lot of times you could be so much better, but you know, you got the, you got the end package too. I think, well, that's what I was going to say. It's also nothing special. Like you see a million, I think X5 is like the best selling SUV in America right now. And so you see product. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Like there's a million, million to handicaps, right? It's not that special, but I think the key is can I put the end package under the hood? Can we get the black on black rims?

You know, can we get the heated, the heated seats and the massager in there? I don't know. We, we got to find out, but it, but the, the chassis, everything's built for it to be like accessorized and like souped up. Like it, it, this frame can fit it. It's just, it's going to cost you. The other thing I would add to that too, Neil is, and this is true of every, you know, any kind of foreign car. That, that computer goes, if that, you know, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you, that too, Neil is, and this is true of every, you know, any

kind of foreign car that that computer goes, if that, you know, if you, it's going to be, it's going to be a headache. Try to get more so the windshield, the heads up display. Yeah. Like you can't call safe life for that bad boy. We got to, we got to get that thing custom. Something goes, we might be looking for specialty parts to get this thing. Well, yeah, I think we just put racing tires on it, you know, this,

this past year. And that's when you have tough time. Like, yo, we don't have those here at the, at the shop. Why not? Also, sometimes you got the wrong tires out for the conditions. You know, you get the racing tires out. It's, it's snowing outside. You're slipping all over the road. Yeah. I still, uh, what are you doing? Why are you trying? I know. And you can't haul, you still heavy wind conditions. And that's when I'm going to start trying to like manipulate the golf ball a little bit too much. And that can get ugly for me. Sure.

What's the worst thing about golf? I mean, I've never been in a golf course. I've never been in a golf course. I've never been in a golf course. I've never been in a golf course. I've never been in a golf course. I've never been in a golf course. I've never been in a golf course. I've never been in a little bit too much and that can get ugly for me. Sure. What's

your go-to swing thought? Is it still fucking tempo? No, it's not. It probably should be. No, I worked with a Ness member down at Vero Beach. What the only lesson I've had other than maybe some tips I've picked up from, from TPI and stuff is, uh, from Andy Nelson, uh, down at, in Vero beach. Yeah. And he, you know, I had this feeling for a long time. It was like, I need to get to my front foot. I need to get through the ball. And he kind of showed me, you know,

in working with him for a couple hours, like, no, actually, man, like you're, you're the way you swing it. you're going to get there. Like there's just the physics say that like, that is not the issue and that's why you're sliding your hips. And so the feeling and the thing that stuck with me from him was like, they call it a downswing for a reason. So like when I feel like my elbow and the, and the butt of the club and everything is dropping straight down and it's almost like the force and the weight is going through the inside of my right heel. If I can get to that like that spot where it's like everything it's almost like if I was driving a stake into the ground with all

of my energy when I feel it going through the inside of my left heel, it usually means like rarely do I get that feeling and there's like a horrible result. And then I think the follow on feeling to that is did my shoulder, my right shoulder come under my chin, which I think is, you know, sometimes I not like TC I'll peak, but like that's telling me that my head is still and I'm truly rotating around like, I remember going to Georgia Tech golf camp and early swing concept was the coach, I think it was Steve Jones,

who was the coach at Georgia State, I believe. There are all these like college coaches there. He's like, imagine I'm spinning a whistle. What's, you know, how can I spin a whistle faster if I move my arm, like my whole arm, or if I just move my finger, you know, and it was like, obviously, if you just like keep your finger tight and you get a lot more torque on it. And he was like, picture the fingers, your head, the more your head's bouncing up and down, like the, you know, it's going to be more inefficient. Now, like you

look at some pros and the way they clear and the head goes down, you know, like I know there's probably some, I'm not a swing expert, but that's, that was a simple concept that stuck with me of like, can I rotate my torso and my shoulders under a, like a pretty stationary like head that has been a, a field that I've, I've tried to keep for a long time. So I don't know if those are good fields, but those are the ones that I've kind of stuck with. That one reminds me of the Sergio one. I think, I think of

Sergio that like the only swing thought is when you get to the top, you're just, you feel like you're grabbing a chain and you were just trying to pull it straight down into the ground. Yeah. Like if I'm, my elbow feels like it's tight into my body, like, cause I'm always trying to keep the club inside. I'm fighting the over the top stuff. And now we've learned a lot of that's just based on my setup and my spine angle at address. So that's, you know, this feeling has a combining that

feeling with a new address posture has led to the left miss. It's not so much intentional. It's just like, Oh, man, I am now feeling what it's like to hit the ball inside out. God, guys, those Hovland quotes. So good. Oh my God. Like I thought, like truly those could be my quotes of like, yo, I didn't, you know, I've historically cut the ball. I wanted to feel what it was like to not cut it so much. Guess what that led to me hitting it left. I don't really want to hit it left. But like, oops, you know, like that's kind

of where I'm at is like, all right, cool. Now we know what that's like. But like, I don't want to stay there. Don't know where the edge is unless you find it, you know? Yeah. So, so does that swing feel have to change a little bit with the new posture? I don't, I don't know about that. I think I just need to get in the, I just need to practice, you Like first and foremost is like, you got to stay healthy. And if I don't change the, if I don't stick with this like neutral spine stuff, then like I'm going to blow my back out. And so like we have to make this change whether you like it or not. All right.

I got a couple of golf course related games before we do super quick, super quick. Who's your favorite golfer of all time? Who's your least favorite golfer of all time? I think this is the question I struggled with. I just look up to yourself thinking about a lot. Don't look up to anybody else for no, I just don't feel a strong pole to a lot of golfers. I never really have. I'd always root, you know, root for tiger growing up. I never felt like a deep passion for him. Like the way that Randy felt for, for Mickelson. I'll bring up Duvall, I think as a, you know, middle schooler because I was being coached on his swing.

I was always pretty interested in like him in his golf game. I remember when he shot 59 at the AMEX and won the British open or the open championship, excuse me. So that, that was more just because of like, I felt like I had a connection to him through his coach. The last 10 years, it's tough, man.

I mean, I find, you know, lucky for us, we have some personal relationships with players like Max, you know, it's like guys that you like as a person. I find that I'm drawn to Rory because he's vulnerable and I think he's authentic. You know, I think, God, he's had a weird three years, you know, but he's, I'm, I'm always going to be a Rory fan from a golf standpoint. I find his game kind of relatable as well.

Just like the boneheaded wedges he hits and stuff. I think Spieth, same reason. He feels very genuine and just my personal interactions with him. He's a hard guy for me to root against. I like Jason day actually back in like when NLU started, I was a really big fan. I think his backstory was like easy to root for, you know, poor kid from Australia. His caddy was his coach and kind of like his father figure. And then I, you know, but then he started getting hurt.

It just felt like he got, he reached the mountain top and got disinterested. And it was pretty easy to be like, Oh, well, that's, that's kind of lame. Like, um, this is the most TC answer ever to who's your favorite. Like I was trying to think through it. Like, and then looking ahead, it's like Ludwig, again, some personal relationship there, just nicest dude in the world. And like crazy talented, like I'd love to see him do awesome stuff. Gordon Sargent spent a little bit of time with him twice and really like really like him fun to fun to watch him hit the golf ball. So I hope he does well I'd like I don't have like Oh my god I am

just that's my so that's my guy is like I guess Rory would be that guy. One person to win the Masters. If you got to choose who would be Rory. That's a better question. Yeah, it would be Rory, but it's a little bit like, is that just because? Yeah, I think so. But that might be a storyline question. Like, I just think that would be so fun to watch.

Like him accomplish this, like, you know, him kill Moby Dick, basically. Didn't end well for Captain Ahab either. No, it didn't. It might not end well for Rory either. him accomplish this like, you know, him kill Moby Dick basically. Didn't end well for Captain Ahab either. No, it didn't. It might not end well for Rory either. Spoiler alert. All right. What are Lee's favorite? Is that easier? I mean, not so much. I don't have a deep hate for a lot of guys. I'd say, I'm going to give you a similar answer. I'd say Sergio. I never liked Sergio at first. Valhalla, the, oh, I can't see that. I hit it out of the tree and I couldn't see it. It's like, you know, Medina, whatever, like just, oh, and then him just being propped up as like Tigers, you know, nemesis competitor.

I was like, no, this guy's not that good. Like, and then, and then like everybody, it's like, okay, you get beat down enough and you fail to win a major for long enough. So then when he won the masters, I was like, I found myself like, oh, I boomerang, I'm rooting for him. Totally. And then, you know, he's kind of a turd, doesn't seem like he treats people very well. So not a huge, not a huge and that's less to do with the live stuff and more to do with like just the stuff he said, like rules officials and even I, you know, I saw it personally at the players in 2021 Carson, I

were out there, he hit it left be able to do it. And he's like, I'm going to do it. And he's like, I'm going to do it. And he's like, I'm going to do it. And he's like, I'm going to do it. And he's like, I'm going to do it. And he's like, I'm going to do it. And he's like, I'm going to do it. And he's like, I'm going to do it.

And he's like, I'm going to do it. And he's like, I'm going to do it. And he's like, I'm going to do it. And he's like, I'm going to do it. And he's like, I'm going to do it. And he's like, I'm going to do it. And he's like, I'm going to do it. And he's like, I'm going to do it.

And he's like, I'm going to do it. And he's like, I'm going to do it. And he's like, I'm going to do it. And he's like, I'm going to do it. And he's like, I'm going to do it. And he's like, I'm going to do it. And he's like, I'm going to do it. And he's like, I'm going to do it. And he's like, I'm try to hit it out of the pine straw. Sergio gets up there and the kid's like talking a little loud to his dad, like, Oh my God, dad, like there he, and he literally turns around. He's like, you know, basically get this kid out of here, like move them back. And I was like, what? And then he kind of realized like, Oh, I shouldn't have said that. He was like, well, just make sure he's quiet. It was just like, dude, like that's the kind

of stuff. You're just like double middle fingers, man. It kind of seems like his default setting is just aggrieved. Yes. And I just hated that specific interaction was like, all right. I did. I was right. You know, 15 years ago, this guy stinks. I mean, Patrick Reed is, is on the list a little bit. Honestly, Brooks Koepka, no doubt, like do not, I got a lot of respect for his game, killer instinct, but I just, he's never, his personality's never jive for me. Easy guy for me to root against the ping ponging between, do you know how fucking easy this is for me? And like, you guys are so stupid to the, like, I'm, you know, I'm fucking hurt dog. Don't ask me if I'm all right. I put my heart into this, man.

You know, and then it's just like, yeah, just take all of that away. I'm, I'm, I'm out. And then it's just like, yeah, just take all of that away. I'm out. God, that's good stuff. All right, Sally, let's do. So this is every time we go on a golf trip, every time we're playing a bunch of different golf courses, I think we always kind of come back to this 10 round split game. How would you split up 10 rounds between these two courses?

I don't really have anything prepared. So Sally, you and I are just going to, we're just going to go, uh, we're just going to ping pong a little bit. Well, I'll, I'll, I'll do a two one first, cause I, this is an interesting one and in dunes and Pacific dunes, how you split in 10. Well, that's a great start. I would probably go six, four Pacific dunes. And the reason is, is I, is, when I'm out there,

I feel like Pacific dunes is the hardest course, and I like, you know, I kinda want the boxing match one more time than the like, and the more you play bad, the more I like it, but I just get the, there's a little bit more of a wow factor for me on Pacific that I think I'd want just one extra round there, but they're pretty even for me.

All right. I'll throw out my two and we'll just obviously stick in the courses you've played here. But National Golf Links, Pine Valley. Oh, God, I love the Bunker Museum versus the Walk in the Woods. I think because of the challenge, I'd probably go 7, three pine valley to, to national and honestly the vibe. I love getting your brains beat in. Well, I think the, I think that over time, maybe this, I've only played Nashville. I played Nashville twice back, like 36 holes. And I played really, really well.

I made six birdies in a row to finish the round and then birdie the first hole on the second round. Yeah. You made six birdies in a row in a round. Yes. birdie the first hole on the second round. Yeah. You made six birdies in a row in a round? Yes. I birdie the last five holes of my first 18. Let's go get three more. And then I birdied the first hole on the second 18. What did you shoot with the five birdies? I shot 75 on the first round and I shot 79 or 80 on the second round.

I played really good. How did I never hear about this? You made five birdies in a row? I did. And that was after I went to the founder's locker room. So taste it, CB, taste it. Never heard this story. It was during COVID. It was 2020. It's like August of 2020.

This might've been right around that pod when TC said, uh, what was the story? Which of you two is going to break, uh, 60 first or have a better kids than a shooter? TC said Neil's ceiling is five to six shots better than mine. Uh, which means Neil would have to shoot a 59 or his Neil's ceiling is 59. Which of course was the famous, uh, do you, do you think Neil's going to get to, you know, six under seven others? Like, let's go get three more, man. Why not? No. And I love nationals. It truly, I fascinating place.

And I just think the, uh, over time, the more you play a course, I kind of like the challenge of it. Because I think I would play, I would struggle more at Pine Valley, so then I would have the desire to unlock a good round there. Versus National, I might go not into autopilot, but some of the wow factor might wear off on like the the museum, like looking at the same pictures. Yeah, a bunch. So I think I think I go

73. And I and I also love the thing I love most about Pine Valley is not the challenge and all that. And I played it once and it was early season. So the greens weren't like raging or anything. I just love the walk in the woods, the band and trails feel of like, oh my god, I can't see like very rare, very few holes in that course are like you seeing another hole. I think like 15, 16, 17, you can kind of take a peek around the corner, but otherwise it felt like, man, this is a whole new environment. I just walked

into. Yeah. All right. So you throw out one, I'll throw out one. Pioneers number two. Ooh. Uhers number two. Ooh. Tobacco road. That's a tough one. God, I would say I've only played tobacco road once, but to, to pineurs number two's credit, I play there six times and I never get sick of it. I would, I would go, I think I'll go seven, three again. Number two

versus tobacco road. I think three loops around tobacco road and, and you know, just like kind of play pine or summer two, twice tobacco road once, you know, let's, let's go with that, that kind of cadence. I think that's right. Uh, TBC sawgrass. Dang it. That's what I was going to throw out. The ocean course, Pete died massacre I feel, feel like, and I like golf by the ocean. I don't know. I'd probably just go five and five on these two. It's a, neither one of them's like, Oh my God, I love playing that course. Um, I probably, I've only played TPC once and I enjoy, I really enjoyed it

because I've never played golf before. I've never played golf before. I've never played golf before. I've never played golf before. I've never played golf before. I've never played golf before. I've never played golf before. I've never played golf before. I've never played golf before. I've never played golf before. I've never played golf before. I'd probably just go five and five on these two. Neither one of them is like, oh my God, I love playing that course. I've only played TPC once and I really enjoyed it.

Cause let me say this, I'll go six, four, because I have more, I've watched so much golf at TPC Sawgrass that I would probably want another crack, like an extra crack at hitting those shots again. Yeah, I think that's right. What about Kingston Heath versus Royal Melbourne West? Man, I really thought Royal Melbourne is super special. But I feel like Kingston Heath kind of grows on you the challenge

of it. I would go seven three Royal Melbourne West, I think it's a more enjoyable setting. And you know what, though, that might be unfair to Kingston Heath because of the weather we had. But Kingston Heath is a little bit, you're on edge a little bit. It's just like sneaky stuff where you're, it's a stressful golf course. And I mean that as a compliment. I really, really liked it. I just think that there's an air, there's a, I don't know, it's a little bit more open and it feels less intimidating at Royal Melbourne West. I actually thought the East course greens

were like scarier than the West. Yeah. All right, last one. Luffington Lynx and Visby. Oh man, I think I'd go Visby 8-2. Wow. All right. Maybe 7-3 just because Luffington's I'm going to go with the Vizby. I'm going to go with the Vizby. I'm going to go with the Vizby. I'm going to go with the Vizby. I'm going to go with the Vizby. I'm going to go with the Vizby. I'm going to go with the Vizby.

I'm going to go with the Vizby. I'm going to go with the Vizby. I'm going to go with the Vizby. I'm going to go with the Vizby. I'm going to go with the Vizby. I'm going to go with the Vizby. I'm going to go with the Vizby. I'm going to go with the Vizby.

I'm going to go with the Vizby. I'm going to go with the Vizby. I'm going to go with the Vizby. I'm going to go with the Vizby. I'm going to go with the Vizby. I'm going to go with the Vizby. I'm going to go with the Vizby. I'm going to go with the Vizby.

I'm going to go with the Vizby. I'm going to go with the Vizby. I'm going to go with the Vizby. I'm going to go with the Vizby. I'm going to go with the Vizby. I'm going to go with the Vizby. And final question, this is the one he came on the stream was, well, before we do, I want to, I wanted to drop in a house ad. Sure. It's, it's, I'm just going to call it, shout out the nest and specifically, well, one nest gifts are going out this week. So get into the refuge and our message board and you can probably already out by the time this, this comes out, right? I think Casey said we're shipping them today or tomorrow.

It's the Jan 16th. This is coming out next week. So yes. Yeah. So they're probably in the mail. Can't wait to see what the the feedback is good and bad in that gift thread. But I want to shout out the roosts. So I had a couple event calls this week, and NLU roosts ramping back up local clubs around the country. I believe we have 35 this year, we got a new one, Lake Effect, Western New York. But each roost meets up

for informal golf at least and has at least one bigger event, which we call a roost major and these majors have qualifying spots for the n it, which is our nest invitational tournament, our championship in November. So it's got a you know, kind of an event series feel to it. But honestly, it's just informal. If you're looking for other avid golfers to play with in your area, check this out. You don't have to be a Ness member to join a roost. And if you're interested, or want to

learn more, you can go to no laying up.com forward slash find dash my dash roost. So no laying up.com find my roost and add some dash marks in there. For more general event information events.no laying up.com I feel like we'll have like a complete calendar and the event site up to date by like, you know, probably early February, but I think just shouting out the roost because I feel really like I was pumped to hear like some of the plans. A lot of events like already on the calendar and some of these, especially the places up north, like stuff for March. I just got the year in the supper club events calendar looks looks dialed. I can't wait.

I'm going to get more involved. Major. I'm ready for me. Ready for the next one. I just got the supper club events calendar looks, looks dialed. I can't wait. I'm going to get more involved. Major. I'm ready for, ready for that at Washington County golf course. We've got our, you know, the March mudness is always a good event with the, the Chicago roost.

We've got the, the bourbon is a good spring one. So a lot of muddy golf, a lot of golfers thawing out together, you know, and, and dusting the clubs off. It's just, it's the best, man. I've never, never had a bad experience at a, at a of golfers thawing out together, you know, and, and dusting the clubs off. It's just, it's the best, man. I've never, never had a bad experience at a, at a Roost event. It's a great way to meet people and go play some golf. Yeah. I'm pumped to get more involved in the NYC or the kind of the tri-state area Roost. One other thing I'd say, I mean, a lot of, with,

you know, other golf brands, they're planning like 40 events, which is sick. And I, and like, they look awesome, but I think if you're, my goal here is like more consistent, Roost enabled to plan their own events, a little bit more informal, a little less expensive, just kind of like the goal is like kind of meeting people and being consistent about it. So both like just meeting up, if you're looking for a foursome, some of these Roost are great. A lot of them have discords or WhatsApp groups. And so if you're looking like, hey, I got a tee time. I need three guys for X day. If you're into that kind of thing,

that's kind of what the roost have been great for. Yeah. All right, let's do it. Main event. The main event. We put this as the last thing on the agenda. I said, Neil, I want you to list your top 10 favorite golf courses in the world from 10 to one.

Of course, these are golf courses you've played. I'm not asking you to get your arms around, you know, and properly rank all golf courses on the face of the earth. These are the top 10 courses you've played. Favorite instead of best, I think is an important distinction. No rankings, no public rankings matter. This is your list and almost judgment-free. We may poke fun at something.

If you put Vizby in the top five, I'm gonna poke fun of it, but the rest is your list and almost judgment free. We may poke fun at something. If you put Vizby in the top five, I'm gonna poke fun of it, but the rest is your list. Okay, sure. So I have a 10 and I'll go down. I have an honorable mention list of 16 that I had to really think through. I won't tell you those just yet. What was this process like for you?

It was hard, it was very hard. I get this question a lot when I play golf. Hey, what's your favorite course? And a lot of times I break it up into like, well, I think you have to say golf on the ocean versus not on the ocean. That's not what we're gonna do here. That's a little bit of our Uber driver.

What do you think about life? Yeah, because like I'm a big setting guy. Big question. And so I'm trying to, I try to think about this in two ways. One, complete experience from start to finish. Like, did I feel welcome? Did it live up?

Like, expectation matters a lot. Things that exceed your expectation. But I think that the only way I can think of this is like, what courses pop into my head immediately? Things that I think about a lot, where it's like, man, I always think about that course. It's kind of seems to be maybe the tiebreaker or like the best way to do this.

And so I'm gonna start off with 10 pasatiempo. I just, this was one of the first like good golf courses I ever played back in 2013, I think. My friend Paul Connors and I went down there. We took a little road trip down and played. We'd heard like, oh, you know, just kind of starting to learn who Alistair McKenzie is. And just the fact that, you know, I'm always drawn to courses where like the architect kind of,

you know, just kind of hung out there and, and, you know, maybe died and his ashes are there. But the setting it's like near the ocean, but it's not on, I just think it's very unique. And I played there four or five times and I always walk away wanting to play more golf. And so that one is just a sneaky, it's just always kind of been there of like, Oh, you know, I just really love that place. It just makes me smile. When I think about it, I like the semi private vibe to it. It doesn't feel stuffy. They, they, you know, you gotta, you know, you're gonna have to pay for it, but you can go play it.

Uh, which is nice. Uh, number nine, so you're going to love this. The old course. I love the old course and I love everything about it. I played it three times, but I don't know. It doesn't have some of the, I don't know. I know how you feel about the strategy and the onion of it. And so that's why it's in my top 10, but I don't find myself often thinking about it.

Sometimes maybe that's because it does feel a little bit like a museum. And I feel not a factory. That's not fair. I think it's awesome that it's a town square. There's a lot of things I love about it. But I've only, yeah, it just feels. I don't know. I feel like I'm dissing it, but it's in my, it's number nine. Just, I'd have to unpack that a little bit. So maybe we could, we could, I'll keep going. You seem I'm comfy with putting it at nine. That was not a very confident answer.

I think it's higher. You just, you're fighting it. You're fighting it. I don't know if I am. Lot of pressure on these next eight golf courses. Pinehurst number two, number eight. Wow. Over the old course.

Yeah. I feel I find the Pinehurst. Okay. So maybe some of the old courses, I don I find the Pinehurst. Okay, so maybe some of the old courses, I don't find it quite as challenging. And that could be because of the time that three times I played it, the weather was pretty docile. Yeah, so I've only been twice the shit out of me with those hickories. Remember

that? Yeah, which was like an all time round, you know, but like with the I don't know, I just feel like more I was I was joking with I think the old course for me is more of an experience and less as I look at competitive golf less of a competitive golf test, even though yeah, they play the open championship there. So this is why this was really hard. Pinehurst I just love the it feels like a true test from for beginner to the best golfers in the world in the best way I don't think I've ever lost a ball on Pinehurst number two and I don't think I've shot better than 78 and I

I just love it. I think it's you know, I've had absolute car wrecks out there The feeling you get when you play well out there and you execute shots is is kind of second to none And I love that it is it is public. It's expensive, but it is publicly accessible. And it's very simple. I like that. It's so simple. Like the challenge is very simple and feels like it could be replicated in more places. So I put that one there. Cypress Point. I just think this one lived up to it for me. You can't think of a more striking coastline. I mean, obviously, people know what Cypress, like the feature holes look like. I think what was, I had high expectations for it. I played it last February. I was blown

away by the hospitality. It really felt like guests were welcome there. And it just was a really stress free experience, which I didn't really expect. I kind of thought it would be a little bit more egg shelly, like some some other places in this tier, of course. And then just the history with like the Mackenzie and it's sneaky challenging. It's not long, but you can still, you know, make a mess, especially on the front nine and then just, you know, executing some of those like famous shots is just really fun. So this one, this one lived up to the hype for me. Number six, the creek.

The creek to me is if I had to pick out a country club that I'd want, like if I had to create a country club in a lab, as far as just like amenities, like the setting goes, I mean, it's got the history. Come on Gatsby Gold Coast, East Egg, baby. You know, you know, the strap boy likes to wet his beak a little bit. They have this awesome beach club. It's the old cravath estate. If you've heard of the law firm, like it's his old summer house that they turned into a country club. Thing I love about golf courses when they have three

like distinct sections, the creek is the best embodiment of this. It's like the front yard is like six holes. Then you go down the hill and you play into these unbelievable holes on the Long Island sound. And then you come back up the hill to the clubhouse for the last six. And I think it's the best Rainer McDonald. Like it has some of the most striking templates I've ever seen with the beer. It's and the water comes in at high tide and then it's mud when it goes out.

I think the other thing on my, that's dictating this list is I played the creek four times or five times. And that really helps this list. It's hard for me to like, Cyprus would be the only one on this list that I've only played. I guess there's one other one or two other ones I've played once, but we'll get there. Where are we at? Number six? Number six. Okay. Number five, Sylvie's Valley Ranch. Think about it. I think about it. Honestly, Vegas just, I mean, just

I can't think of a more unique place. And this is the whole enchilada, right? Just the ranch itself and the setting and how far there's no cell service and just the experience of getting there and that part of the country. There's no other reason that I would go there. You know, are there better golf courses? Technically, sure, but I just had so much fun on the two trips I've been there playing the course. I love creative stuff like reverse routings.

I think I could spend two weeks out there playing that goes to golf courses, which is basically the same golf course, and never get bored. The balls on the ground, it's running like crazy. They're kind of on a shoestring budget. And it looks great. And it's very rare, you get a course to yourself. And it's because it's so far away. I can't recommend like a better value. If you can get out there, I just think it's an awesome, awesome place. Great. And I'm actually now I'm second guessing. And maybe it should be higher on

my list. That's I respect that one. Oh, yeah. Number four is Kingsley for a similar reason. I freaking love Mike DeVries. I think it is a souped up version of sweetens. I think similar, like you kind of have the course to yourself a little bit and so creative. I just think about Kingsley often, an inland place, kind of like, okay, yeah, it's in Michigan, you know, like, and some of this, maybe my expectations were, were not very high to know what to expect. And it just blew me away. I really liked, I thought that course also had some sections to it. And I, again, I think it's DeVries, it's my favorite DeVries course. And, and I like a lot of what he's done. So, uh, I think it's DeVries, it's my favorite DeVries course. And,

and I like a lot of what he's done. So, uh, and the fact that we got to play with him probably influences this too, of being able to talk to the artist a little bit. And I've said this before, but you know, played with like Doke at number 10 last year. And it's on, I'm a little bit on eggshells. Like if I, am I going to ask Tom the wrong question? You know, like, oh my God, how could you be so stupid? You know, whereas degrees like, Hey, what are you thinking? I can't wait to tell you what I was thinking here. You'll check this shit out. I was on the dozer. Right. I just I was thinking like,

what if I did this? And I'll make you hit a seven iron. And it's like, what do you think of that? I'm like, fuck, I love it, Mike. Let's let's keep talking. Let's go get some fucking beers. That guy's the man, period. Number three, Visby. Full experience, Solly. Full experience. I can't think of a place that I would like

to take my family more than this golf course. I wouldn't say it's the best golf course on this list, but it's my list. I love the glamping. I love the, just the whole, the whole feel of that trip. I think about Visby often and that clubhouse hangout. But I you know, honestly looking at this list, I probably switch Visby and Sylvie's at this point. But let's let's leave it. This is what I showed up with. I'm

putting Visby here. Number two is sweetens. That's home for me. I love it. Love everything about it. I've said a lot about Sweeten's. I just love the golf in golf out is the most interesting concept in golf, I think. And I would love to see it replicated other places. And I just, I think that Sweeten's is this high on the list because it's only nine holes, which some people would say is a detriment to it. I think that makes, I think that strengthens its case for me because again, I probably played a hundred rounds there. I never get sick of going around that golf course. With the way you can change up the tees and play the different flags, I think it's just,

I think about it often. Can't explain it any other way. And number one is- We gotta do some predictions, I think. You gotta guess, Solly? I'm trying to think. He said there was, it's gonna be one he's played multiple times, because I think there were two more. He said he'd only played once, which I assume is Visby and Kingsley.

I'm trying to think. Well, it'd be Visby and Cyprus. We played Kingsley. We played two rounds out there. I'm gonna get really triggered if Visby's in the top five and real Melbourne didn't make the top 10, I am going to get probably a little triggered on that. Sure. I'll just tell you it's car and specifically it's the back nine and the DJ

Kilmore nine. Uh, I just think that the, I'm on the record as saying one of my favorite things about what we do and golf is it is a reason to go to the end of the earth and You know, I think Lofoten is this way but Karn is actually an awesome not to say the photons on a good golf course But Karn is like it is worth the trip from a golf standpoint for me and I love big the dunes of Ireland like it just when I think of that the the Irish tourist sauce is probably,

if not my favorite, it's in the top two. And a carn is like the pinnacle of that for me, because of how hard it was to get to, I didn't know what to expect. And I'm almost worried if I went back, I would feel differently. But I think about carn similar to Sylvie's. I just think about it all the time. I loved it. And the way that the weather changed like five different times, you know, I'm wearing like, I felt like I was like, you know, touring on a freaking mountain bike going through that place. It was just awesome. And it was so like freaking rustic. So I just got a lot of respect for like, courses that are like, just digging it out of the elements. It's, it's just so cool, man,

to see what they were able to do with, with limited budget in the Northwest tippy corner of Ireland. God, that's what an electric list, man. I would have not, I would not have scored well if I was trying to predict your, your list, which is great. That's why we, that's why you play the games. You know, and I think you might be right now, Saliha, honestly, of Visby, I probably haven't ranked too high, but I, again, I just had such a good time there. And I felt like what Visby represents to me was like what we were talking to Noren about of like,

it's aspirational. It's like, man, could I find a place like this? If I ever could have a second home, I'd want it to look like that place. And it's not like Nantucket, no offense to Nantucket or, you know, or, or honestly, even fishers, like, uh, fishers was on my honorable men. You want to hear my honorable mention list? Sure. I've got Charleston, Muni, very fun, right outside the top 10. I've got Fisher's Island, Pine Valley, Somerset Hills, Royal Adelaide, Colorado Golf Club, Camargo, Banded Trails, LaHinch, Peninsula Kingswood, Royal Melbourne, Kingston Heath, Austin Golf Club. Sneaky. Love that place.

Sleepy Hollow and Springfield Country Club. No, no love for Harding Park. I would have thought I would have thought your beloved Harding Park would have been up there. Maybe a miss by me, but it's not in my top 10. That would have been a nostalgia pick. Yeah, that's kind of that was kind of a marriage of convenience. But no, no shade to Harding. I love I love that place. Did I hear like no LaHinche no Bally Bunyan no

No, I had LaHinche was in there. Sorry, I don't have Bally Bunyan in there. Tough Candidties there. Honestly, I would probably weirdly, I love Tralee. I think about that place more than I think about Bally Bunyan. I want to go back to Ireland. I think the front nine is underrated there and the back nine so striking. Like that, that course was so dope. I loved it. I think, you know, what is not in here is I have tri-banded trails in here. And this is, I want to make this

point. There is probably no place I'd rather go tomorrow than Bandon, but it is like greater than the sum of its parts for me. Like to your question earlier, like Bandon trails, Pack Dunes versus Bandon Dunes. It's like, dude, I don't know if any one course is like- It stands out enough. It stands out, but like, God,

do I want to go play all of them like equally? I just want to go to play any of them. When I go, you've set such a dangerous precedent for whenever TC goes on one of this, you had 16 in your honorable mention. TC's going to have 16. I'm not going to go into that. I'm not going to go into that. I'm not going to go into that.

I'm not going to go into that. I'm not going to go into that. I'm not going to go into that. I'm not going to go into that. I'm not going to go into that. I'm not going to go into that. I'm not going to go into that. I'm not going to go into that. I'm not going to go into that. I'm not going to go into that. I'm not going to play any of them when I go. You've set such a dangerous precedent for whenever TC goes on one of this. You had 16 in your honorable mention. TC is going to have 60 then. Like that's, that's what's going to happen.

I wanted to get, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I templates, but like, I just thought that place was awesome. And then Fisher, I loved Fisher's, Fisher's Island, but honestly, like the get, get in there. I know it's part of the experience, but it kind of sucks. You know, it was tough, man would love to go back, but it's just like, dang, getting through that traffic in Connecticut was like kind of bonkers. I'm not going to be a member of the Creek, right? But it's not, because I'm not, I'm not going to live out that way. I'm not like, but I just think the God, that place is so beautiful. I'm like, I'm going to live out that way. I'm going to live out that way. I'm going to live out that way. I'm going to live out that way. I'm going to live out that way. I'm going to live out that way. I'm going to live out that way. I'm going to live out that way. I'm going to live out that way. I'm going to live out that way.

I'm going to live out that way. I'm going to live out that way. I'm not like, but I just think the God that place is so sick as like, if you think about like, man, what a cool place. If you could talk into our conversation earlier, if that place was 10 minutes away, I'd probably stroke whatever number they're asking for them. If they would, if they wanted me to join. Any parting thoughts? Should we, should we land this plane? Well, you had the last question. What gives me the biggest satisfaction in golf, which I thought was, it was a good question. Um, and I, I put in two, two points. One is the feeling of building around,

which kind of goes back to that feeling. Like the older I get, the more joy I get out of consistency and the less joy I get out of like the idea of, you know, I'd love to have another hole in one, but like hitting one shot good or having one good round. I just love the, so honestly, I think I get so much joy out of not having double bogeys. Like I had six of them last year and I, I'm dead serious. Like you can ask Randy after we played Liberty, I shot, I think I shot 79 or 80 didn't make it double. And I was just like kind of walking on air. It's like, man, how about that?

You know, like that's, that's it, man. I love it. Like it's just kind of rare for me. And it feels like the, uh, I know I've used this analogy for the old course, but that game with the marble, you didn't get in the holes, like that feeling of like, I avoided all the grenades. Yeah. No train wrecks is, so I guess I hope that I don't get so much satisfaction out of not making doubles in the future, but up until now that probably is one of the bigger satisfactions. Call your shot. What's your low round of the year in 2025?

I'm going to shoot 69 this year. Nice. That's it. I, you know, almost, I might, might scoop a putt if it's for 68, I might scoop it just cause I'm just kidding. I wouldn't do that. I respect the game too much. Neil, this has been a thrill, man. Thank you for, for thinking, thinking through the questions, putting together a couple of lists. This has been great. I look forward to do this with everybody. I think this is a great idea. Likewise. Hell yeah. Thanks for having me on your program. Anytime. Soly, thanks for joining. And we will catch you guys next time. Crack on.