No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - 998: NLU Personal Golf Spotlight - Soly

Episode Date: May 2, 2025

Our personal golf spotlight series continues with Soly stepping front and center for a WITB update and his recent speed training, a trip down memory lane to his first swings as a kid and some great high school golf stories. Plus his thoughts on learning to balance competitive and recreational golf as an adult and, per tradition, his current top ten favorite courses. Support our sponsors: Titleist & FootJoy ⁠The Stack⁠ Holderness & Bourne If you enjoyed this episode, consider joining⁠⁠ The Nest⁠⁠: No Laying Up’s community of avid golfers. Nest members help us maintain our light commercial interruptions (3 minutes of ads per 90 minutes of content) and receive access to exclusive content, discounts in the pro shop, and an annual member gift. It’s a $90 annual membership, and you can sign up or learn more at ⁠⁠nolayingup.com/join⁠⁠ Subscribe to the No Laying Up Newsletter here: https://newsletter.nolayingup.com/ Subscribe to the No Laying Up Podcast channel here: https://www.youtube.com/@NoLayingUpPodcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Be the right club. Be the right club today. That's better than most. How about in? That is better than most. Better than most. Expect anything different? Better than most. Expect anything different. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No Langa podcast. My name is DJ. We've got another golf spotlight episode for you today. We've done a couple of these in the past. We did one with Neil, we did one with Tron, we did one with Ben Hamin. Today, we are going to be talking to

my friend, Chris Solly Sollenberger. Solly, how are you, my man? I'm excited to talk about golf. It's amazing how much more appreciation I have for a day where the sun is out. I have no one vomiting in my house right now, including myself. We're in full health. It's been like one of 14 days and I'm like, we're good. We got this.

We're doing really, really, really good. You're kind of in that situation where you're, you know, like a quarterback checking down to just like his 26th receiver. And once we get all that down, it's like, maybe go play some golf today. I might be able to throw it 70 yards now down the field and double coverage. Love it. Well, I'm excited to get into this. I feel like a lot of

questions on my list here that I do not know the answer to, which is both rare for somebody that I've known for a very long time and also very exciting because I can't wait to get into it. But we always kind of start. Let's level set for the people. I'm sure a lot of people are familiar with your game through YouTube or you frequently taking to social media to post about your golf game. But just give the people a level set. What's your handicap? And I want to know what's your ball speed? What kind of horsepower you working with these days? So my handicap right now is 0.6. This is usually the part where

I just fill in a bunch of excuses on that. That feels about right. Feels about right right now. We're not getting out on the golf. I'm glad I've played enough golf this year to throw, you know, to get rid of some scores. Right. I had a 66 from last June that just hovered for way, way, way, way, way too long. And we finally got that at the corner. That was at Yeamans hall. Oh, that's right. So that was a memory. Yeamans hall, soft game. And yeah, summary round of golf at Yeamans. It was, I like, because she could have been a lot lower, missed a lot of putts that day. But no, it-

I haven't played golf in like five months, by the way. And I'm just throwing shots at you. Yeah, that's not a real 66. Like that's- For sure. Yeah. For sure. That's an interesting, I'm occupying myself here. So I like when Neil calls me for the mega bonus call

from the 13th hole. I'm like, what's the course rating out there even right now? That doesn't count. So the game is not that, you know, and I'm like, honestly, I'm glad to be through the Gasparilla and the creator classic and truly free of the burden of needing to have my game in shape. As has been well documented, I'm at a phase of my life where my, my golf scores just cannot be a

priority. It cannot. I have enough things stressing me out. And it does stress me out trying to like play a little bit of competitive golf or be somewhat of a good player when I've got other priorities going on in life. It's really hard to balance those things. And like, I'm, I'm free of that burden right now. And honestly, it feels really good. Not feeling like I need to reprioritize things to be like, honey, I know I got to dump two kids on you right now, but I have to go hit

balls. Like, no, it's just not, not stakes are simply too high. I got to dump two kids on you right now, but I have to go hit balls. Like, no, it's just not, not. I've got to play Gabby golf girl. Exactly. There's no coming back from, from taking a hell there. Ball speed. We mentioned, I feel like this is a good chance to, you know, I want to get your answer, but probably a good chance to talk about the stack as well.

Of course. I I'm probably around like 168 range speed right now. Haven't taken the speed right now. Haven't taken the quad out in quite some time because I haven't even been stacking, which is kind of a surprise, I would think, I guess for the last five months for how hard I was actually doing this thing. Of course, you've heard us talk a lot about this program. You can go to thestacksystem.com slash NLU

to find out a whole lot more of it. You can use code NLU as well to get 10% off the stack bundle. But I started doing this last summer when the wife was hitting bed rest with her maternity leave. I was gonna be home for six straight months and I just kinda needed something to do. And I've did something very disciplined for maybe one of the first times in my adult life of like, I worked out every three days in my

backyard, sweated my ass off throughout the summer, but had so much fun just taking this stupid stick outside and swinging it as hard as I could, you know, once every three days. And the returns were incredible. I mean, I cheat. You're not really supposed to like, they don't ask you in the programs like grab a driver and like see what your swing speed is. But I cheated one day and just grab my driver. There's a lot of like there's no way I'm actually swinging as fast as they say. Like, like, let me validate this with an actual driver. Like I know that feeling that you're talking about. Then you see it. You're like, Whoa, I actually I filmed

it because even I wanted to be like, I didn't believe it, but I grabbed a driver and swung at 127 miles an hour, my backyard. And that was just, that was not even like the peak of the program, I don't think for me. But if you stick to what they ask you to do, the returns are simply incredible. And it was honestly like a light bulb moment for me of, I did struggle a little bit with like now that I have this superpower, let's go out in the golf course and swing hard. And it took me some time to realize, no, the whole point is like, now you want to sit at what you used to max out at and like hit it in

the fairway, hit it straight in on the planet. And once I started to realize that my golf game was just like salvageable without being able to practice much. Right. Like that was kind of the whole big takeaway. It was like the most efficient way to get better at golf, I think right now, is to use this system. And if I may say for parents at home, they also have a stacked baseball program. Like I don't need baseball swing speed,

but if you have young kids that are in baseball, check this out. Honestly, I feel like there's still like a stigma around like swing training around golf and stuff with baseball. Like this is just, this is like the core skill needed in these sports is to be able to swing it fast. So you can say your 90th percentile exit velocity in either sport is really good. Like look into that for, for baseball as well, because it,

it is kind of just one of those dumb ass things of like, Oh yeah, like why wouldn't you like bat speed? Like just like, they're just learning about bat speed in major league baseball. Like why wouldn't you want to have massive bat speed? Like, Oh, yeah, like, why wouldn't you like bat speed? Like just like they're just learning about bat speed in Major League Baseball. Like, why wouldn't you want to have massive bat speed? Like, well, you might not hit the ball. No, like you want to hit the ball as hard as you possibly can. You don't have to swing it as hard as you can. Exactly. So anyways, I know I've raved about this product for a long time, but I'm legitimately like have FOMO of like all the

stuff I've been battling health wise personally, and time wise of like, I've not been I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, but a lot of value out of this winter. I mean, it just categorically disastrous winter and spring weather wise up here haven't hit balls outside yet, which is kind of says it all. But in my garage, I have a net and a mat and just being able to do the stack wedges and just dial in like, what is 71? What is 79? What is 85? What is 93? And just being able to do that like every couple days and keep those feels around for the winter is like Got me most excited because I really I struggle with that a lot I struggle with the driver and I struggle with the wedges and that's a tough That's a tough place to be and I feel like coming into this season finally

I'm like, alright I feel like I actually am retaining some of these feels and a lot of that's just because of the stack and the way That they've they make it kind of gamified and it's just it's fun to listen to music or turn on the TV and, you know, watch golf while you're doing it or whatever. It's just, it's great. And all, I mean, Cody made a good point too. It's like, I think we've, I've presented it as a speed training program, the stack, like, no, it's to get you better at golf, like the resources within it. Uh, the wedges are on their way, uh, in terms of being a part of the program.

That's coming very, very soon. And the stack putting aspect they have up there as well. It's like, it's not all just speed training. They have this learning library where you can go to for all these fundamentals. If you're trying to create speed, it's a really freaking awesome product. So I know we're talking about it here a long time, but that's kind of the whole point. It's be able to shine a little light on something that has been really, really additive to our golf process.

All right, well, for the gear heads, what's in the bag right now? What do we got? Title is GT2 driver, switch from the GT3 as I entered the dad back phase. I'm not gonna scientifically explain why this is a better fit. Sorry, you said you went from the three to the two

or from the two to the three? Correct, from the three to the two. I had the three and once I hit the dad back phase and was losing flexibility and not play as much golf balls going left and the guy was like, yeah, let's get your refit. And I felt like such a stooge doing that. But they're like, no, no, like we have guys that like sleep funny on the flight from like the US to the UK before the

British open and change drivers. This isn't that crazy. I'm like, okay, good. That actually makes me feel a lot better. Help me from getting that ball from going left. Because my goal this year, travel goal was to eradicate the lefts. We're not all the way there yet. We're not. I would encourage people to go watch the Gasparilla video. That had not taken place quite by that point. But then I would encourage people to go watch the Creator Classic video, which keeps my guy driving the shit out of the ball. But I still don't know how that happened. I went back to driving it bad at South Carolina. A couple of weeks, big time players making big time plays, man. That's what that's, that's what that was. Like also just goes to like legitimately just go on and having amnesia with swing fields

that work. And I just, I'll be like, Oh, it's ingrained now. I know I haven't worked on it in two weeks, but I don't need to keep thinking about that swing field. But yes, that might not be it. I'm learning that as I go on. That's been a really good change. I got the GT three three wood. I'm very excited to try the mini driver. I need to get fit into one of those immediately, but I got a T two hundred two iron.

I asked them to make me a two iron. Does that go far? Oh, yeah. Like comically far. Probably carry one or rocket ships in like the most fun way. How far does that go? Yeah. Like comically far. Probably carry one of our. Rocket ships in like the most fun way. Like in total, I can hit it 250 easily when it's somewhat firm

because it goes so low. And that was the whole point was like, I just literally want a club that like I can sting and it hits and runs. I want to, I got it for Australia when we went a couple of years ago, like I'm very excited to try this out over in Northern Ireland as well. I've just, I don't almost never hit it expecting to hold a green with it. Even if I'm hitting it, going into a green, it's like, this is running up to it. It's not a club I shoot up in the air. So carry distance, I couldn't really tell you other than like, if I've got like 240 back into

the wind on a par three of some kind, I'm probably hitting two iron and trying to sting it and run it up there. So you hit it off T a lot. Yeah. Off the T anytime I don't hit driver. Like I, I, I wish I was more comfortable hitting three woods off T's. I, but I think that's kind of where the mini driver will hopefully help me of like, I, I almost just almost put myself to the test of like, either I can hit an 80% driver or it's two iron is usually my decision making off the tee. But no, I freaking love that club. It's, it's been awesome. So, and then I go T 150 for iron through pitching wedge. So the T 150s, if you're not familiar

are essentially a little different chassis, I believe is the word than the, than the T 100s, a little wider sole, a little bit more forgiving, but also lofted down two degrees. When we were with Callaway, I played the Apex Pros, which were also lofted down two degrees. And when we first got with Titleist, I was in the T100s, which again, puts me back up two degrees. And I just had played so much golf at that different level that I was really struggling with kind of the concept of like, all right, now that it's 160, like that has been nine iron for me because it's like an eight and a half iron. And that has been nine iron for me. And like when I would try to hit eight

iron from 160, I wouldn't hit it hard. I just couldn't like mentally get over that hurdle. Like the way I kind of like to play golf is lower trajectory with the irons and like playing to a front number and trying to drive it in versus like, you know, trying to come in completely aerial. I don't know if that makes sense other than like when it's 170 to a back pin and there's any kind of help, I'd rather just smash a nine iron than like try to fillet the eight iron and the lower trajectory irons helped me do that.

So I've loved it. Do you think that's a swing path thing? Do you think that's like a contact thing? Do you think it's a mental thing? Do you think it's like a commitment thing? Because I struggle with the same thing. And I almost always, I'm realizing this, this was like some of the golf blueprint stuff I was doing a couple months ago.

And I'm realizing like the harder, not the harder I swing, but like the really firm, much more committed, like let me max this one out is almost always going to be a better shot than you know what I did earlier in my career quote unquote where I was like able to float stuff a little bit better and shape stuff a little bit better. I'm like man I don't know if the equipment's changing over the years. I'm obviously changing, the golf ball's changing, but like I just find that so much harder to do which I think is interesting. I don't know how you feel about that. I think it's a little bit even I'll sprinkle in a little course management aspect into that of like just dispersions on irons. And like, again, if it's a back pen 170, I don't want to draw a perfect circle around that back pin and have the dispersion be around

that. You want the dispersion to be more towards the middle of that green and what's gonna be more towards the middle of the green there, the club that is less. And I love to hold an iron in my hand that I can't hit over. Even if I smash it, it's not gonna go over, right? And look, difference, that's not to say I do that every time. Like if it's back into the wind, it's a completely different thought.

You know, I don't wanna mash something into the wind. That's just gonna increase the spin, increase the, it's just gonna balloon on me and all that. But for whatever reason, the T-150 kind of profile, if I wanna hit a hard nine iron, I can get more distance out of it. Whereas with the other lofts, a hard nine iron was just going higher for me

and spinning more and not necessarily going farther, if that makes sense. Like I just didn't have that dial-up level. If it's 170 to the back pin, and if it's 145 front, it's like, all right, even a slightly mishit hard nine iron should cover the front. I've just gotten to a better spot of being able to do that kind of calculus and understand. When you, like when you cat it for me, you know, I like that that front number and the pin numbers, that's how pros work. And like the more I've gotten to work in that mindset, the better I've been about all that. So it's more about what

that median shots going to be more than it is what your best shot is going to be is how I have improved in game planning coming into into greens. That makes a lot of sense. What do we got in the wedges? coming into greens. That makes a lot of sense. What do we got in the wedges? 48, 54 and 58 degree SM10 wedges. The 48, it goes about probably 130, just smooth, normal stock level. I don't want to hit the 54 anywhere above 110 without any help. Aaron Dill rule, just used to, I used to be 60, 58, 52. Uh, he'd lofted me down two degrees and everything said, never hit a full wedge

again. Easiest dumbest advice ever. Like of course, just why, why would you do it? You just don't need to do it. It's crazy spending 20 years just peg me in. Watch how much this thing fucking backspins. Check this, check this out. Watch how much I can rip this thing back.

It's like that. Maybe what if he just chilled a little bit? Exactly. I still get my hand caught in he just chilled a little bit? Exactly. I still get my hand caught in the cookie jar a little bit with that, but then I won't hit the 58 anywhere above 95 yards. Probably even then I've just gotten a lot more committed. I'm not necessarily better at it,

but more committed just back to just hit a nice easy little 54 in there. And it's been, it's taken me a while to adjust to the new kind of gapping and those new numbers, but I'd say we're getting there. And I's been, it's taken me a while to adjust to that new kind of gapping and those new numbers, but I'd say we're getting there. And I, I can't figure out a setup that doesn't lead me with a 20 yard gap somewhere in there. And I think I'd rather that be with like a Vokey faced wedge, like the 48 degree. I've thought about like, do I want it to be 49 degrees to kind of middle that gap a little bit better? I don't think I need to just because I feel really

comfortable hitting that 48 degrees. I can hit that one full like that, that I don't think I need to just because I feel really comfortable hitting that 48 degrees. I can hit that one full like that that I don't have no problem hitting that one full and getting more out of it at the same time can hit that 85 90% and do anything from 115 120 120 I just feel like I feel really good about distance control with that club for whatever reason. And I think that some of that gap is the it's the strong pitching wedge right like that that 44 degree pitching wedge Cause I struggled with the same thing with the,

with the one fifties and that gap between one 15 and one 30 basically one 10 and one 30 is kind of where I can find myself in no man's land a little bit. I have a gap wedge that I love now, a 50 degree that is, covers most of that or, but then I kind of get into that same conversation where I'm trying to take, trying to take a little bit off the pitching wedge, like we were saying earlier, rather than hitting it hard. But then I get into that same conversation where I'm trying to take a little bit off the pitching wedge, like we were saying earlier, rather than hitting it hard. And then that's when I tend to exacerbate mistakes and mess up my tempo or come down steep and closed

and pull it or something like that. So that's a shot. Watch this space. We're working on that one. But I think what I was talking about there with the 170 back pin and figuring out the puzzle there, it's even more important when you get into this range with wedge, because like, let's say it's 134 middle pin,

whatever, you know, and that's between 48 degree and pitching wedge for me. Again, it's going to be safe, right? Well, it's going to be, yeah, it's a calculus thing. So 116 front, let's call it. That depends. 18 on. I know even a slight miss hit with this wedge

is going to cover 125. So does that make me want to pull that club? Or do I want to introduce long with the pitching wedge and hit a really good feeler? Then it becomes like, I don't need to hit this wedge 134 for it to be an OK shot. Pitching wedge could be great for a birdie, but could be a disaster shot. You know, if I take a little off, I could pull it, you

know, and all that to say, like, I don't worry as much about finding holes in that gap, because I guess I'm just a little more comfortable taking a little bit off, you know, that 48. This is one of those things. It's like, it's very obvious when you hear it on the face, and it becomes like more and more profound the more you think about it. But Trevor Immelman kept saying on the Masters broadcast, I think he was talking about Nicholas and how he did this calculus basically like during rounds. And he was talking about, I think it was with Rory and some of the shots into 15.

He was basically saying, I think I'm paraphrasing this right, but Jack was saying like, if I think I can hit the shot eight out of 10 times, I'm going for it. And, you know, if I think it's a five out of 10 shot, then I'm also thinking like, what happens on those other five? You know, is the ball plugging in a bunker? Is it going in the water? Is it leading to double somehow? Because if on the other five, like there is no danger, then like, okay, man, it's probably worthwhile. And just thinking about it, like you just said there, is like the difference between maybe I hit it up there to seven feet and maybe I make a seven footer and maybe I make a birdie,

versus it's probably a pretty even chance that I also just like plug in that front bunker or in the creek or whatever is like where, I feel like my brain doesn't always get to that level of calculation. And that's where so many shots go to die. And it's so easy to sit here and say this on a pod versus when you get out there. But like even at my level, which isn't that great, but it's,

it's good. It's, I'm still probably statistically more likely to make bogey from 140 than I am burning. Right? Like, yes, it's a quicker way of saying what I was just trying to say. Yeah. So my goal with that should be more bogey avoidance than it is birdie.

And you will back into more birdies than you realize. It's not fun. It's not. It is, though. It will lead to more fun. Because it's not the thought process there that's going to lead you to less birdies. That's that's kind of what I get at is the fact that you know if you have the mindset of like if I can get this on the green 80% of the time from this distance, which is unrealistic for even for a scratch player like that's a really good goal and really good outcome. And that's better than like, if you hit it the green 60% of the time,

but maybe hit one or two more of them closer. I've seen it, I'm still stuck at putting into play. I really do, but like the true conservative approach into greens of just like trying to hit them and leaving yourself 25, 35 foot birdie putts, you will accidentally hit the 12 feet more often than you even realize. And you will like just have a really boring round that will be lower than it feels like. And you walk

like, Oh my god, that's totally how you're supposed to play golf. Like it really is. It totally is. But it's funny enough that I can only get there when I've taken time off of golf. Like when I've played more, I hone more and more in on the fly. I lose patience. The goal is here to hit it in there tight. Instead of getting your hand caught in the cookie jar as much, it's just like it's not a good long-term strategy. It can work in short spurts. Like we're saying, you don't want your dispersion pattern to be specifically around the pin because the closer those pins get to edges, the more likely

that is to provide a lot more trouble for you. Right. All right. We're deep in the weeds here, but we can't forget about the putter. What's the... Oh yeah. Scotty Cameron studio style fastback putter. This is a new style of putter they've got. I put it into play directly in front of the creator classic. Difference between the Phantom 7 that I had, 7.5 I think I had actually, the Gasparilla, and that was a massive difference for me. I've been asking for something with an insert, something to help slow speed off the face for me, which as you can see in that video, when you put me on fast greens in competition, the ball coming fast off a putter for me was a massive problem. And I

struggle to close the face when I'm trying to hit the putt as easy as I was in those, in those tournament rounds. And especially like on left to right putts, the immediate impact this thing had under in competition was like a, just a, it was awesome. It's great. I freaking love this new putter. I've not got to use it enough. So I haven't played much really since then, but I don't feel like I, it feels like a weapon again. You've known me to be a good putter as long as we've known each other and it just has, it's, I'm really stoked to be fit into something

that I think can actually make a difference for me on the greens. That's so wild to me too because I feel like we, I don't know, we're similar in a lot of ways, golf and non-golf. And the putter, I think is the biggest difference between you and I where like, when I pick up your putter, you've always been like an insert guy and I have never been an insert guy. I use the Odyssey O-Work 7, like a dinged up version they didn't even make anymore, not their best technology. Like I just use that putter until forever. Like it's

still like I only think it was conforming anymore for how damaged the putter is. And that was just the only I've never been a good putter until I had that one. It's just like a weirdly good fit. I've just brought that to titles people's I was like, you know, trying to find the exact best fit into all that but it was all like hearing me try to explain that I sound like a fucking idiot of like, I don't know, man. Like I just you know, this the way the shaft

could just make it like, I don't know. Yeah, no, like the clubhead it just I can't hit it offline. Like, but why I don't know. I just sound like a total idiot trying to describe why this putter but like that's just how personal putters are to people. And this is a fit and shape that I was not what I was picturing myself getting into. But the ad, it's hard to argue with the results so far. Yeah. All right. Well, I, I kind of want to go back to the beginning. Like I said, we got a little into the weeds there on some stuff, but I do not know the answer to this question.

How did you get into golf? What's the beginning of your golf story? So I pretty sure almost positive. My first round of golf was on a family vacation at Myrtle Beach when I was eight years old. Shout to Kane Patch Part Three, which I think I looked up at one point I don't believe is still there. I would be stunned if it was still there. We would have gone there for strapped if it was. You know, I used to ride around, uh, my family.

I was originally born in Charleston, West Virginia. I lived there until I was six years old and I would, I do remember riding around the golf cart with my dad at Berry Hills country club where he was a member. Uh, when I was an absolute tyke, I don't think I ever played, I didn't do more than the chipper putt or whatever out there, but I was pretty into the game. Very early on we lived in Dublin, Ohio, growing up, you know, for the more impressionable part of my childhood.

And I really learned to play at a place called Twin Oaks there in Dublin. It was a nine-holer that was not far from our house at all. Wildly shitty in retrospect, but I mean, it meant the world to me. That place was just, I think it was $9 to play nine holes, but then I think it was 11 for a full 18. So it was basically a $2 replay. My parents would make me like fake gift cards for Twin Oaks as in it was just like money really of like that for birthdays and holidays would be like,

yeah, you get five passes to go play Twin Oaks. Cause like, you know, my parents were, did not, they didn't spoil my golf habit as a kid. Like it was kind of a, you know, I'm not necessarily pay my own way, but at times, you know, pay, I had to pay, I had to chip in. I had to take care. It wasn't just like, you got a free run to go play golf whenever you wanted to, but it made me appreciate it and want to work for it and the opportunities to go actually play. Which also seemed possible in that time when you could actually get tee times

and golf courses were not a disappearing and the ones that were left were not like completely overrun and needed to be booked three weeks in advance and they had junior programs and junior rates and you know I assume anyways if it was similar to where I grew up which it sounds like it was. It will not shock you this place is not does no longer exist, it's going to be a theme coming up here, but I had a newspaper route and that's like what I spent my money on doing. That's right. That early, those early years, I don't think I fully understood the concept.

Like I had to really work backwards to get into competitive golf because I took Mulligan's out the ass back then. I played preferred lies everywhere. Another 66 for me. I legitimately, I have all these scorecards from home. They come home and I just like, like 72 as it, as like a 10 year old or 12 year old guys come on to my dad. I'm like, yeah, I shot under part of the day. He'd be like, no, you didn't, but I'm glad you had fun. They did a good job and let me enjoy the game. However, however I wanted to, but when I did graduate to 18 hole courses, a place called Shamrock Golf Club was a place we just beat up a bunch out a bunch of middle school and high school matches there. It was very much just

okay. But again, it was it was it became my world. That place no longer exists as well. Just a few minutes from our house. And then right as we were getting in, I was getting into high school, my dad joined a local club called Riviera Golf Club. I think it might've been country club at the time, but there was no pool. It was just a golf club. Yeah, exactly. It's a classic, classic design. Having the Olympics, I think. The women are playing there too. Very cool. It was owned by the American Italian golf association. It was built in the seventies, a group of Italian immigrants that were discriminated against and not allowed to join clubs in Ohio, like

built their own club there when it was just like before Dublin was a thing. It was just built out in the field. That place of course no longer exists as houses have encroached on all that and it closed down about 10 years ago. Actually one of the first articles I ever wrote on our website was about that place closing. But like me and my buddy, Frankie, I mean, this is where golf became like my thing was this place when we literally did the morning drop off at evening pickup, bang balls, play 18, have lunch,

putting contest back to the range. We had a game we'd called dirty up the red green, which was like the shortest green. And we would just like made our the range pickers guy life his life hell of just literally hit as many balls onto the red green as possible. Like how many balls can you like pepper onto that green? You know, which is good wet practice back in the day. I did ultimately work at this golf course for four years after this

membership. So I paid my dues back for all the picker life that I made help. But that was just like where I became totally obsessed with golf. We would watch infomercials on TV during our lunch break while we had quesadillas and Shirley temples. Like the hammer or what else? What other infomercials are we talking? I just remember the Adams tight lies, pure spin diamond face scoring wedge, where the guy was hitting. If you worked in the golf shop, I'm sure, do you ever get so stoked

when like in the lost and found, you guys would find one of those, like either the pure spin diamond face wedge or a knockoff or one of the ones with like sandpaper on the face or something. I always remember finding those in the lost and found and just be like, oh man, I can't wait to take, again, watch how much this fake fucking spins. Check this,

check this shot out. I do remember a lesson learned from my dad. I did not, so we like, I think it was $150 quarterly minimum, a food minimum, which I thought meant 150 free dollars of just like you could, you could order whatever. And apparently, I distinctly remember like having the bill brought to my room of like, this is what you did at the club. Like you're paying for this. Like this is not, you don't get to just like shout out the number and daddy pays. That's not how the things are going to work. And I remember having to work

backwards. I think it was a couple hundred bucks, which that was a lot of weeks of newspapers out back then. But, uh, but my favorite memories from this time were again, spending the whole day out there. But then like after work, my dad would come and either join me or me and my buddy Frankie, and we would play an evening nine. And like, that was where like I just like fell in love with golf the most of just so stoked to whatever new swing feel I found out that day show off to my dad that night and just playing in the

evening light riding around in a golf cart because we always walk you get to ride in the cart and the evening with your dad and you know you're racing against daylight we'd always get to the ninth hole as a par three and it was always so dark and I just remember hitting shots from up atop that hill and there was a little fountain and it was always so dark. And I just remember hitting shots from up atop that hill and there was a little fountain in the pond that was short of that green and it would, you would hit the shot and you would just, everybody would go silent and you would only hear the fountain and you would just listen as close as you can to be like, Oh, I think that was green bunker. You'd hear the splash and we'd go get dinner afterward.

And it was just like all I wanted to get up and go do again the next day. Like it is just, um, I'm forever thankful for those, those days and those nights, uh, spent at that place being the last people in with the golf cart and then waiting for those people, uh, when I worked there and, and, and hating those people. But those are the best tippers. Usually it honestly, like tremendously bums me out that that place does not exist anymore. That the club house is not there that housing development type of thing. It's a house, it's houses

now and it was a threat for a long time they held off as long as they could. And it just it went from public or private to semi private and it was always a low end. I mean, it was a there's a lot nicer clubs and more pricey places are around Dublin definitely Tartan Fields, obviously there's Merrifield Village, then there's Merrifield Country Club, Wedgwood, there's all kinds of just country clubs and it just became slowly, there's a middle school, my middle school was built next to it as well and then houses kept going on in all these different corners.

A new high school was built over there and the sign is still there, Riviera Golf Club, like entering the neighborhood. I know, I went and drove around it and walked around it about 10 years ago. And you could find the car paths. You could find some of the bunkers and I don't know, man, that place had a massive, massive impact. And actually you inspired me when we did our scavenger hunt, uh, to go scour eBay, uh, for, for any, um, memorabilia. I found a matchbook from the club on, uh, on eBay for a year, a country club.

Oh, that's great. Found that. And I found a golf ball, one of those like firm ass titleless balls, but had the club logo on it somewhere back here. I might've lost it already, but, uh, just, uh, I needed a few nostalgic memories. One thing to my mom, I used to go walk over there. Uh, and she found me a backdrop sign, like, which I used to work the backdrop there. And she found me a backdrop sign, which I used to work the backdrop. She found one of those and refurbished it for me. We actually have it in, actually, yeah,

I think it's in storage here. It was in the Kill House for a long time, but that's a memorable piece I keep from that. But yeah, my buddy, Frankie and I, we spent so much fricking time at that place and just have memories on every single hole of something dumb that happened. And I still remember like 2520, that was his member number. Mine

was 26, 56. Like I remember that. It hasn't been members there since like 2003. Like how crazy is that? What was your, what was your game like at this time? Were you like all, you know, again, similar upbringing, I'm sure. And the whole thing for me and my friends at that age is just like, can you hit a draw? You're a real player if you can hit a draw. Obviously now that's like the scariest thing in the entire world to me, but I'm curious what your style was.

So I was a baseball player too, so I kind of had the patented like over the top slice for a lot of the early part. And I still, I think I'm kind of over with like the, the true core of me wanting to do that. But that took like so much work at the range without any guidance. I had no, I think I had three entire lessons as a kid.

And it was from my- That's how quick somebody could have fixed it. It's pretty quickly, honestly. I took three whole lessons in my entire junior career. And that wasn't until like later in high school when my neighbor, the guy that lived five houses down from us, who was a young budding pro gave us our family, a deal of five lessons for a hundred dollars. And I only used three of them.

I remember that he still owes me two lessons if I could, if I could cast it at some time, but no, just like legitimately hit balls on that range at Riviera for hours and hours, just like trying to learn how to take divots and learn how to hit it solid. I just wanted to switch out. I want you to take the back to anybody I've ever seen. I could get the if I could get the path to go right like all I feel like I was doing Sergio stuff and I could never get that

path to go right. But I was I played multiple sports. I was never a JGA kid and I was just not that good. I just I played made the middle school golf team. And I just wasn't I have almost no good memories of like, I think I broke 40 maybe once I don't even think I actually broke 40 ever in an eighth grade match or anything like that. I just was not, not that good. I could have a good little run and four holes and I choked so hard every time I was a really bad putter. I used like the, my dad's hand me down Mizuno clubs and then I got some tailor-made super steels,

which I used for many years, but they were not fit for me. And then I ended up with tailor-made racks. I think about my senior year. Yeah. God, they sold so many of those. I went through so many different kinds of putters. My dad had the nubbins putter on, if you remember that. It was literally like a ping pong paddle face. Yeah. That's probably where you got your affinity for these stupid inserts. But yeah, my original driver was called the beast. I forgot about the beast, that driver as well, but I was a bubble shaft guy at one point. I remember that. And no, I just was not, I just had so many memories of just golf being just hitting you with golf

and baseball hitting you so much with the just gut feeling of failure so often, which is like when, when I became, and we'll build up to that when I got good at golf in 2019 and 2020, it was such a foreign, I think I truly never thought what happened in my life. Like I didn't, I never associated golf with like success, it just always ended with some kind of heartbreak in some way. Like I had, I broke par I think twice ever in high school matches or tournaments. And those like the outliers, like the rest were like Solomon shot 88. And, you know, I was a decent high school player, made the team,

made the varsity team as a sophomore, but like that was, you know, maybe breaking 80 a couple few times a year, like usually still shooting in the eighties and gagging in the most important tournaments, like always. And then by the time I was a senior, I was the number three player on the team. And I was a better, much better player then, but also the top two guys on our team played D1. So I kind of didn't, I don't think I knew in my head that I was, I always downplayed my ability

because I was just comparing to these dudes that shot like 66, not infrequently. There's a story, I don't think I ever told this on the pod when I've definitely told the Solomon shot 88 senior year where how my high school career ended. I've probably told the story in basketball and in my career on zero points as well So I'm not carrying those with me, but junior year we go to regionals Our team is so sick no way we shouldn't qualify for state like we we just no way and it's a really cold day for what? and

Apple Valley there where we had a lot of regional tournaments. And I'm thinking I'm the number four player on the team at the time. Our number one is sick. He just committed Northwestern like he's like, unbelievable. Luke Donald. He goes down and shoot 85 that day. Our number two shits the bed and it becomes like, I had a great front I shot even on the front nine 36 like when it was like freaking cold. And it became like, dude, you got to get you

might have to carry us to States. And I was like, all right, I got this. I got this. Battle on the back nine. And like, you know, I made a couple bogeys, I started getting really windy. And gosh, I made also just real good pause there real quick, just like between those two nines is the classic high school golf. Like, hey, I know everything's going great right now. But now you need to really tighten it up, change what you're doing and just start trying harder right now is what we need from you. That is like the most high school golf thing I think I've ever heard. I remember I made an eight foot putt outside the hole on both the 17th and 18th holes to shoot 75 that day, which was an outrageously good score on that day for weather.

This is a good score for me anyways, an outrageously good weather wise. And I walked off and I heard the news that like, yeah, Kyle shot 85 and like Brent shot 80 and like Blake, yeah, it did not go well. I'm like, holy shit, we're not going to make it to states. Like that's it. Honestly, never once in my life would I ever have considered

like our team was so good and I was not even close to the best player on the team. Like individual qualification made no sense to me. But not one, but two officials from the high school association came up to me to congratulate me on qualifying as an individual. Like, you know, they would take the top guys that, you know, if your team qualified, you didn't, you know, your score gets thrown out, right? It was the top individual qualifiers on, if your team qualified, you didn't, you know, your score gets thrown out, right? It was the top

individual qualifiers on teams that didn't qualify. Like, yeah, you like there's there's three groups left out left on the course. But like, you're in, you're in. And like, my parents were there. And it was kind of weird. It was like, a little bit celebratory. But like, I'm super bummed for my team. But like, my parents wanted to jump around, like, I'm unbelievable job. They're like, Do you want do you want us to take the golf clubs back for you? And I was like, ah, no, we'll, we'll, I'll hang on to them. And then, you know, we had to take the van back to

the school and then go home. They leave and like, we are, you know, we're, you know, things are wrapping up and we have to stick around now because I'm going to get like a medal for, for, or whatever, for qualifying. We hear this big roar on the on the final green. And like one guy bombed a 45 foot putt and one guy chipped in. Now I'm in a three for one playoff to go to states. My parents had my they did take my shoes. I don't know why but my golf shoes are gone. I had to wear one of my one of my teammates shoes and like get my go get the clubs out of the van and like hurry down for a playoff. And I had to go into like all these people out

there following it and sure enough, some guy rolls in like a 45 footer. Every year gets five feet longer. So it's a 45 footer on the second playoff hole to like eliminate me and I did not make it. No cell phones, like none of this. So we go make it all the way home and like my parents like stayed up. I don't think they had b, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm

like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I thought I was pranking them. Like, no, I, you, I did not make it. Uh, so that was one of my great heartbreaks. That's tough. That's tough. Oh, what happens? What happens next?

Graduate high school, go to college in Miami, play much golf there. What, what's the, what's the word? So golf kind of just fades for me pretty quickly in this time period. We would play, I don't know, three, four times a year, uh, at Miami, but not frequently enough. Other things became priorities. Um, I would still go back and work at the golf course in the summer. Like I'd work, you know, and if I worked from seven to two, I'd maybe stick around and try to play in the afternoon. I always got to play for free. And that was my way of getting golf in the summer was without having to pay for it was to work at the club. And but for the most part, I worked all summer long,

save up money, you know, to go back to school with and fund my activities there. I still loved it, but it was just like hard to prioritize at that time. And then when I got out in the real world, it was really hard to prioritize. Like I was just broke and trying to make it, trying to live in the city.

And like trying to drive out on weekends and spending like $100 to play golf was just not where the money was going in that time period. So I fell out of love with it. But a couple years in, and I met a golf buddy at work, and we just started to get back into it. And then it became like an it a real itch again, I remember, like, in my cubicle, spending time reading, I think his name is john Sabino, top 100 golf

blog, or whatever it is, like, I would just sit at my desk, like reading his blog about playing the top 100 golf courses in the world and just like fantasize about it. Like I think that's kind of where my golf wanderlust returned and why, where my, like, I never viewed golf, anything outside of competitive until around in that time period when it was just like about going out, having fun, drinking on the golf course if you wanted to, but just like being outdoors after spending all week in the city cooped up in a building and you know, not wanting to spend your weekends just amongst building go out

green grass and get out, you know, that kind of weird adult feeling started to come around in that time period, I started to get back into it. And before you knew it, I was obsessed again. And we were playing played at Ravisloe a bunch there in Chicago, you know, we would find any random, you know, and all of a sudden, I started to reprioritize not going out on Fridays to getting up early on Saturdays to go drive an hour and a half maybe to go find a golf course that was $20 cheaper

than the one that was in, you know, an hour away or something like that. And we had a good group of golf buddies that did that a lot. And I started to really get back in love with it. But then, like around 2014, right around when I got the the offer to go to Amsterdam, it was kind of like, I think I might want to do something just a little bit more fulfilling. Like I really like golf, but I think there's probably just more things I could pursue personally than just doing the same thing every weekend. Little did I know that I was setting out one of those things was just running a golf blog in my spare time. And I really did go abroad. I let my clubs collect dust in my, I stored them in my bathtub in my small apartment in Amsterdam. There

was nowhere else to put them. And I let them collect dust until like the back half of that. When I started to learn that one, we had a successful golf blog and podcast at this time and two, Hey, there was some golf blog, no laying it out. Exactly. There's some crazy good golf courses like within very short easy flights from here that you can like once in a lifetime experiences that like once I started like trying to do that was like, Oh my god, like that was when like this spring of 2016 into 2017 was when I met a guy's name is Barry O'Hanrahan. He ran an Irish golf

podcast and he just invited me to fly over and go play some golf around there. We just did a little mini golf trip and I was just completely flabbergasted and blown away by Port Marnock. We played the island on that trip and I just had never really experienced Lynx golf. I went to St. Andrews summer of 2015, but I totally didn't appreciate or get it. Kings Barnes was my favorite of those courses that we played on that because I liked the views and I liked the turf. And I just, once I started to like explore and learn like true Lynx Golf, it was mostly a pro golf blog and podcast up to that point. And then it became like a golf lifestyle thing

we were doing. And it was that time period of 2016 to 2017, which 2017 just became the year I maybe took too much advantage of what was at our fingertips and played truly like a lifetime's worth of top golf courses in the world in one year. But it was just kind of, I had this itch and this pursuit of like, now this realization that I've had some of this access that I dreamed about reading this blog. I was just totally smitten with traveling to experience what golf culture is like in Northern Scotland

versus Western Scotland, Western England, Northwest England. And meeting all these people and seeing their golf courses and learning a totally different style of play and culture of play just took me to a place where I was like, I go in from like being at a desk for so much of your time to like now being outdoors and experiencing it was one of the great trade offs I've ever made in my life. So I want to hear some more highlights of that, that summer of 2017, which is like just comically comically good. But also I want to know, I don't know if I have asked you this before, are you just emailing all the club captains and just being like, hey, I don't know if you've heard of my Twitter

account, but it's a pretty big deal. Would love to come through or are you talking to members or some combo, I assume? Mostly clubs directly. And the Irish and British and Scottish clubs were like way more responsive and supportive than I would have thought at the time. Growing up in the States, you go email a country club, I would love to come out and give you public, like shut up, like stop kid, that doesn't work. But in hindsight, like I was giving them an unbelievable offer, which was like, Hey, I will do maybe eight to 10 hours of work for you for free in exchange for one of your tea

times, it's going to go to waste probably anyways. If you'll let me come out and take pictures and write all like I didn't know the time I was like, unbelievable trade this $80 tea time at this place for me to do all this free publicity and take photos and all this but it was it served a good purpose. Like people were enjoying reading the travel content and all that stuff. And, but it was just, hey, we've got this Twitter account, it's got this many followers, you know,

we would like to do a write up. Here's an example of a write up. I did it, blah, blah, blah. Would you be interested in hosting us? No big deal if not, but figure to reach out. And they'd usually say, yeah, we'd love to sort you out. And I didn't know at the time really that that's quite common for a lot of places.

It just with media people in general, like it's just common place to lot of places just with media people in general. It's just commonplace to get comped and to kind of get golf writers or media. That's how the word gets out about your place if you want a lot of member play or guest play with it. So I probably cringe if I went back and read any of those emails that I sent, but it worked. It somehow worked. And then I became less shy doing it and got more emboldened and almost very, very, very few knows. And if it was, it was for a good reason usually. What were the golf courses that made the light bulb go off the most? And what was the light bulb? What did you kind of like, oh my God, I've never thought about that before type of stuff? I think it wasn't even just the golf courses.

It honestly was like, my dad and I went, I think it was fall of 2016, went to Western Ireland. And we flew into Dublin and we drove all the way out there. And just the, like being in Western Ireland and being on these one lane roads with traffic going both directions amongst these farms and these fields and these houses and these little towns that just were not laid out in a optimized format in some way. Just being off the map and feeling like you're back in time on these strange

corners of the earth. I wasn't that heavily traveled probably at the time and it just honestly felt like I traveled to the ends of the earth to play golf. When heavily traveled probably at the time. And it just honestly felt like I traveled to the end of the ends of the earth to play golf. Like when you arrive at like Waterville and LaHinche and these places that are, you know, Bali Bunyan and experiencing those with my dad walking at all times, playing shots along the ground, couldn't tell you at all what I would have shot at any point, but like experiencing that having pops of sunshine,

meeting people, you know, experiencing the pubs, going and getting the Guinness's after the rounds and just driving around Western Ireland with my dad, going all the way up to, I had to take over the driving at one point. He was struggling with driving on the opposite sides of the road and then making the trip all, we made the trip all the way up to Carn on that one, which I had a bad tendency of

putting way too much stuff into a very short periods of time. This at this time in my life, but that was just that was very light bulb for me of of how much was out there. How many great experiences there were to be had out there. And just the style of golf. I mean, we've talked about a million times over the years of just like, learning to disconnect, there's no better place to disconnect yourself from your score than Lynx Golf. Like it just becomes so much about embracing the challenge of one particular shot, learning that eight iron from 120 might not be enough sometimes. And I get just once that stuff started to unpack for me. And if I go back even farther, I would say summer of 15 when we did that initial St. Andrews

trip, I had a great caddy at Carnoustie. Ian, I remember his name. He was just an awesome, awesome caddy that helped the light bulb go off for me in terms of like, I forget what hole we were on, but he just tells me, I remember it was 153 yards, was a nine iron and he tells me to aim it like so far right of where I would have ever dreamed of aiming like a nine iron like right of a green the wind was off the right and he's like if you hit it over this over this hill ball's gonna disappear for a while but the wind and the direction it's gonna take everything to the left and he I hit it hit the exact shot he's asking disappeared for a while and just he's like, wait, wait, wait.

And the ball appeared like 10 feet right of the hole. And I was just like running up and down the fairway. I'm like, oh my, I get it now. I totally get it. That's the coolest thing ever. Is maybe where I would trace it back to the longer I rant about this. Man, that's, that's, gets me very excited.

We're, we're going on a trip this upcoming week over to Northern Ireland So everything you just said has got me got me fired up for that trip Also gonna be doing some packing on that trip And of course gonna be packing some stuff from our friends at Holders & Bourne So I tell the people about about H&B this hoodie right here the Lawson This is a game. I actually bought a tree farm hoodie with the Lawson and Immediately I was I'd been light on shopping on our own site

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all right, so I know it's it's easy to talk about the Magic and mysticism of of links golf, but when you get back over to the states What gives you satisfaction when you're out playing golf? You've always struck me as a score-based type of guy. I think that would be a fair assessment for everything you just said about throwing out the score when you're over there playing links golf. Help me kind of square the circle a little bit on those types of things.

It's funny because that year of 2017 for as much golf as I played, I think I played like 100 rounds. I think I played probably 25 of the top 100 courses in the world that year. Like it was truly absurd. And I did as good of a job as I've ever done of like not caring what I shot.

I don't even think my handicap went down that year. Honestly, it was just, I was really starting to enjoy golf courses and individual shots and challenges and experiences more than I was tied up in my golf score, which was different than how I'd lived my life forever. Now what came with like, ultimately playing a lot more golf, you know, in 2017 and it's 2018, especially when we're

starting out this out full time, starting to play some golf on camera was like a the itch, the feel starting to come back a little bit, I started to get a lot better just naturally at golf, I started compressing come back a little bit, I started to get a lot better just naturally at golf, I started compressing the ball a lot better, started driving it far again, started to make more birdies and like, had a few magical nine hole rounds you go out to Jack's Beach and all of a sudden I've got a birdie putt on the last hole to shoot 29. And I'm starting to

feel that itch again, like, am I good? Do I have do I have what it takes here? And like, you know, you start to get punched back down every now and then. I'm like, am I good? Do I have what it takes here? And like, you know, you start to get punched back down every now and then, but you know, we played enough golf and I just started to, I don't know, start to feel a little bit more competitive. Started working with Corey Lundberg at the Altus Performance Center

when we went up and met with him in 2019. And like started to get the itch to, you know, get maybe back into some events. Like you caddied for me, we did a US AM qualifier there the summer of 2019. The first half of it anyways. Well, yeah, I had to withdraw because we didn't know it was a 36 hole event, or we didn't know it was two day event. I knew it

was 36 holes, thought it was one day. Straight out of holes. But like I shot set like a really good finish, well finished 76 that day without having signed a card since high school, and foreputting the first hole. And I was like, man, I enjoy this. Like I really had a lot of fun doing that. Did a mid-am qualifier later that year, made seven birdies and still did not qualify

for the US mid-am, but I was like, I signed a card for seven birdies in a USGA qualifier. And I was hooked. Summer of 2019, from that following year, from that point, was a level of golf that I truly truly truly never thought I would reach. Now I started hitting really really good at the end of 2019 and when I did an interview with Brennan Todd after he won two events in a row I did an interview with him at Sea Island November of 19. He mentioned a swing tip that he had heard

to kind of eradicate some of the long ball problems he was having or the big right misses he was having about arm tension. He said he took his arm tension from a seven to a four. I was like, good, mine's a nine right now, probably. And like, when I took it from nine down, I can't, it's honestly like hard for me to describe how good I started hitting the ball.

Like it started going even farther, even more solid. We at that time decided to do, we were going to be doing a documentary on, with a part in partnership with the USGA of like, all right, solid, your job to start out 2020 is to play golf. Like, and we're going to document you playing tournaments and you're going to see if you can qualify for the US Open. What could have been man? That was going to be awesome. It really was going to be awesome. And so I signed up for a bunch of winner series events,

started traveling to play some tournaments and I got so into it, practiced all the time. And dude, I again was just like, I feel like I'm bragging about it all the time, but I still like, I never thought I would get to that. It was a, it's a frustrating thing now to have experienced five years later, because I still feel like I can recapture that. And I'm starting to come to the realization that that time period just, that's just never coming back. Ever since I heard my back. It might've been your peak. You know, I did pretty good. I won three majors, you know, I can't really sustain that for 20 years. I read, A Player from Pia and Lynn, who have been guests on this podcast multiple times. It got me seeing the mental side of golf in a totally different way. I never won a golf tournament in my

entire life. And I entered my first tournament in January of 2020. And I won. I won against like, it was 18 people in the field, but I think it had eight or nine plus handicaps in the field. And I won by four. And I honestly thought I could, I never thought I was going to lose again. My confidence completely soared. I went and played another tournament down in Tampa. I took a two shot lead into the final round.

I was leading by one with like five holes to play. I plugged the ball in a bunker, made bogey, ended up losing by, I think by two. And honestly unraveled from there of like, I thought I was gonna win that tournament too. And I never really fully captured again under pressure since that moment, but I was like, I'm not only playing good golf,

I'm playing good tournament golf. Like the thing that always killed me as a kid was putting pressure on myself and collapsing under big moments, especially near the end of big important rounds. And I was like closing them out. I was, you know, executing under pressure. We had that footage from that first tournament win somewhere. It never got aired with the documentary, but like you went out and followed me.

Like I hit, I was hitting the golf ball, man. I really was. And COVID hits completely wipes out that documentary, which was tough. And then I pro golf pause in 2020 from April to June. And like my golf, my job was mostly pro golf. Like I played a lot of golf in this time period and it was even better. I played even better golf in that time period than I had played to start that year. So I was freed up of the pressure. I wasn't, you know, there weren't tournaments to be playing in anymore. And like I, my handicap touched plus 2.6 and I still like can't.

And at that time I felt like a plus four, honestly, I could show up like hungover. I remember there was a day I showed up hungover late for the opening tee shot, uh, random bogeyed the first hole. I was like, honestly, don't even care guys., I'll be fine. And I shot 67 that day. Like that's how I was playing golf at that time. It was such a joke. And I thought it was going to be like that forever. And it has literally never even come close to that ever since then. It just as soon as pro golf pick back up later that summer. You

know, I, I do go back and look at we don't have that much footage in that time period. Maybe Taurusas, Oregon is the only time my swing has ever looked like that. That free, that low tension and that solid. And I've driven myself crazy in the five years since then like going back, pausing these videos of like, wait, how did I ever swing it like that?

Truly, how did I ever swing the club that way? How much of it feels technical and how much of it feels mental though, because hearing you describe it, I, I feel as much more confidence based to me. Well, it was way it's, it is very technical, but not in a way that is controlled by my brain. Like I was ingraining, really good habits. I don't even remember what drills I was doing or, or, you know, how I did it. I just, it was like, I had a good feel

and I kept building on it, kept building on it, kept building on it, kept building on it. And my problem was, as fast as I rose up to that almost plus three level, I didn't know how I was doing it. I didn't know like what made it special, like in this time period. So when it slipped, I had no way of accessing it

again. Honestly, I have like two videos. We'll probably sprinkle them in the postscript in the YouTube. There's one from a practice round the gap that first Gasparilla I played in 2020. And there's one from the fall of 2019 at Sunningdale. The two videos in my phone that when I'm struggling, I always go back and watch because I just like, I still can't believe I hit, I hit irons like this. I mean, I think that the Palmasia video there is like an eight iron from 189, a little downwind into that tournament. But it was like, no, I just need, I can hit it 178 in the air easily with this thing. And I'm not even swinging hard at it. And it's just like, Flushy McGee. But I was blacked out. I was blacked out in this time period. And I just was, I don't hit shots now, looking up

expecting it to be great. Like there was just almost like an ingrained like, I'm expecting this shot to be really good. Versus now it's kind of like, oh, hey, I hit that one good. That's good. And there's such a big gap between those two things. I mentioned this too, in the Ben episode too, I hit that one good. That's good. And there's such a big gap between those two things. I mentioned this too, in the Ben episode too, but I always laugh at like asking him one time when I'm just like totally lost with my golf game and Ben's obviously a good player. I was like, what, you know, what's your swing thought? Like what, talk to me about your, like your process. He's

like, oh yeah, I don't, I don't think about it. I just, I don't know. I just kind of know I'm going to flush it. I'm like, oh, okay, cool. Maybe I should, yeah, I'll write that down. That's helpful. Thanks man. Good. Yeah. No, it became clear after that point though, it was like, all right, my job is not to be good at golf. Like that's not that helpful to all of us. You know, it's, you know, we're not going to,

we learned quickly that that video series was going to be sweet, but it also was like, nah, it wasn't our best idea. It wasn't our most efficient idea. And post COVID, our business changed a lot into much more podcast-based. Video was a lot less off the cuff and it just became clear. The hours needed to be put in to justify it, but it just didn't make sense anymore. So the practice time dipped and I don't have a regret there other than like, I was doing so good at just like experiencing golf courses and experiencing being outdoors and appreciating nature and being in touch with the game. It's like now getting back into competitive.

I almost regretted a little bit of I wish I never got expectations back into my golf scores in my game. I do enjoy the pursuit of a well played round of golf and finishing out a round that is, you know, really solid. And I've done better in recent years of like, you can't you just can't let a bad round affect your day in any way. Because I did I did I would walk off courses miserable in 2020 and 2021 if I played bad. Because I was like, well wow, did all this work and I suck again like what the hell's the purpose of this? But now I am better. I still get a ton

of highs out of the good rounds, but like if I shoot 80, which I do quite frequently, like I just, I can't wear it. Like there's just no, no, you cannot do that to yourself. There's not a lot of people who are going to commiserate with you on that one. Totally is the big light bulbs. You know, when you come home, it's just like, what? Oh my God, what's wrong? I shot 86. Oh my God.

Hold on. Let's, let's call your parents. Let's call, let's go get everybody into town here. Sorry. You know, I'll just kind of build you back up. It's like, yeah, maybe we just move on. I will say this though, that little mini bit of tournament experience at such a comically low level of like Florida winter series events and not even like the highest state level

stuff. It honestly taught me so much about pro golf. You can laugh at that if you want, but like what like high level tournament, I would say more dumb things about pro golf and shots people hit and things like that than I do now having experienced, you know, like a very simulated version or a reminder of like what it was like. I thought high school golf was in competitive golf 20 years ago. More than that away from me, truly forgotten all about it, like about the balance and the nerves of trying to compete in that. And I also to that note, I talked about this with Tron too, in that like, nobody ever taught me like, and I never took the time to learn, but like nobody ever taught me how to play

golf. I know that sounds stupid. Like people taught me how to swing the club and they taught me how to, you know, here's how you hit a draw. Here's how you hit a fade. Here's how you chip. Here's yada yada yada. But nobody ever taught me the things we talked about in the first 15 minutes, right? Of like, don't aim at the flag every single time. Here's why you want to hit this club off the tee instead of this club. Here's why you want to hit this chip shot instead of this chip shot, yada yada yada, which I think speaks to the stuff that you're talking about, which is like, yeah, when my, when I look back on, you know, my quote unquote competitive golf in high school was just like, all right,

man, just try to hit the fairway and then try to hold the next shot on every hole. And hopefully we do it. I don't know. We'll see. We'll just kind of let the chips fall where they may. Where it's like, yeah, when you're trying to base a firm, fast, windy US Open performance, you're trying to view it through that lens is a recipe for saying some very stupid shit, is I think what you're getting out there.

Well, and it's also as soon as you play in tournament conditions that are really windy with baked out greens, and you watch that ball do that little extra foot and a half roll away past the hole, you recognize that on television. And I go back to that feeling I had when I was playing in tournaments against much better players of how much that exposed me.

So you know, it'd be one, I don't know if I would, that would jump off the page as much to me of like, now when I watch Valhalla, that does not happen. And I know that anything could happen in that tournament versus like a US Open where the conditions get real, it becomes like, hey, whoever is in the most control of their golf ball, and is not making dumbass mistakes is going to win this thing. And like, this is going to separate the talent. It's just an easier and that may sound obvious, but just an easier pull having just been in that spot in a simulated version

a few years ago, a few months ago, whatever that might be, of you know, I've been the Scott Brown in a field of competitive golfers among the PGA tour. And I've been, Scott Brown in a field of competitive golfers among the PGA tour. And I've been, you know, the guy that's expected to be one of the top three players in some of these really weaker fields. And like you, I don't know,

experiencing those differences, hell, at least it gives a little bit of context and perspective when we talk about the highest level of the game. Am I aware of the gap between the, in the play of these? Yes, I do not need to be reminded of that. Every time I reference this, it somehow comes up. could kind of port that part of my brain into some other golf fans. I think that's a good point.

I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point.

I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point.

I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I I'm aware of the gap. I think that would be, yeah, I wish I could kind of port that part of my brain into some other golf fans brains. Like that, that's the thing that's hardest to explain. I think to people is just like how many dudes there are, just how many dudes you, you will never even like, you will never ever even come close to hearing about that are the best player you've ever seen in your life that have no chance.

And like that's hard to explain to people. I've told the story before, but I watched a guy shoot 61 in front of Jim Furyk and that guy was unable to get status on PJ Tour Americas. Like it really, but that's where course set up and tournament set up makes a massive, massive, massive difference. Like the very next week, I think Jim was probably top 20 at the Genesis and it just people are

built different, man. People are built different for different tournament conditions. Tournament golf is, we say it all the time and I wish I had a better way of describing it. It's just like, it's just a completely different beast, completely different beast. And I'm thankful to have experienced at least a little bit just because it is like, I think my level of play is like pro-am creator classic is like the most fun I have. Like member guest level of competition is my peak level. Anything above that, like in seriousness in terms of signing cards becomes

panic and that gets just not a fun way to live. It's stressful. This is a weird comp or is going to sound like it. I hope it doesn't sound like a backhand and compliment, but like it's, we've talked about this on the pod before with someone like Joel Damon with everything we just described and how obvious it is that there are prerequisites to being a top level tour player and how much better the speed makes you and how much better all these things are like, you have to do this. And you see someone like Joel who doesn't have a lot

of those tools and you're just like, man, that guy must be so fucking good at just golf and just getting the ball in the hole. Like it just is, I don't know, the older I get and the more I learn about the ecosystem and kind of how many guys are on the outside looking in, the more I just appreciate dudes like that who are able to still hang around and keep their card and threaten to win and it's just, it's awesome.

I got a couple of quick hitters here and then we're going to get to our big finish. Okay. So kind of in the spirit of what we're talking about here, what's, what's the most complete round of golf you've ever played? Probably it's one of two rounds. I'll, I'll, I'll just, I'll drop them both probably here. Uh, it would be April, I believe 22nd, almost the anniversary of this, uh, 2020. I almost like still feel sheepish, like saying it, cause it doesn't feel real. It's, it's so much lower than anything

I've ever done before that it just still doesn't feel like a real thing. I shot a 60 like a real 64 at Tim McQuana eight under par and I don't remember what hold I've shot 31 on the front. And I had shot 31 on the front before maybe a few months before, maybe longer than that. And I remember I went turn around shot 41 on the back and I got in the car and was just like, despondent. Like I can't I that feeling from high school of like anytime you got something good going, you just

gagged it like you club feels different in your hands, reacted horribly. And I remember walking off the ninth green that day, I saw one of our buddies on the putting green, I was walking to 10th tee, didn't tell me anything. I was like, Hey, I'm gonna go get you three more. He had no idea what I was talking about, but I was just like trying to get in this mindset of like, I'm going to go, I'm going to go shoot under on the back nine. I'm instead of trying to protect the five under, we're going to do that. And made a couple birdies on the back. I'm making all these putts and I get to 16 tee and I run into some buddies of mine. They knew I'd been playing well and they were just kind of joking. They're like, oh, how many under are

you today? And like I said it out loud. I was like, eight? And like my voice cracked in it. And as soon as I'd said it out loud, I was like, I put all this pressure on myself. And they're like, they thought I was joking on there, but I honestly was eight under par with three holes to play. I think I missed all the, I missed 16 and 17 green had to scramble because I was starting to gag. And I missed about a 25 foot birdie putt on 18 to shoot 63. And I walked off and was like, I just shot a fucking 64. Like I honestly breaking 70 is an unbelievable round of golf.

And I had shot a 64 followed it the next day with a hard and true 80 very much. I went at 64, 80 and back to back days. But honestly, that day was peak. I never was the same after that. There was a round that later that September that I played. I was getting ready to do a podcast ahead of the 2020 US Open, which was in the fall with Jim Furyk, who won at Winged Foot. The US Open was going to be at Winged Foot. Or he won Olympia Fields. He almost won at Winged Foot. He was one shot of that playoff, I think.

That didn't happen. And he was like, okay, we'll do it at the club. And then at the last minute, he was like, well, why don't we play beforehand? I was like, let's get a force from the other. I'm like, okay, cool. And we go out and we're playing, but my mind is on the podcast. And usually, you know me, I can tell you where I am in relation to par at any moment of my round. And we like honestly got to like seven, like 18T before I even, I was like, I do have a

good, I have a good round going on. I looked at the card and looked down at it and like doing the math. This was back to you. So the, the 64 was from the blue tees. It was from one ups. But back tees, my best round at Tim McQuarran was 69. And I'm quickly doing the tally on the card. And I'm like, do I have I only circled the birdies today? Did I not square my bogeys at all today? Oh, my God, I haven't made a bogey today. I won. Okay, I'm 200. Oh, I forgot three, four. Am I five under right now? Like I honestly my mind was so much on the podcast and get ready to do that. The

anxiousness that comes with the technology and all of this is just you've been there on like video shoots, like you're just not focused on your golf. Usually that works in the opposite direction. And I'm quickly doing like now I'm looking at Jim's card and I'm like, Oh, he did a couple bogeys in there. Could I do I have do I have? I'm about to beat this guy's ass. He's five under as well. Okay. I hit a drive down the fairway and he hits his iron in, he hits it like 20 feet on 18. And I'm like, dude, doors open. I step up and hit a wedge to like five feet. And I'm like, holy shit. I'm going to fucking beat Jim Fuhrer today. Jim rolls up, he drains the 20 footer in the middle of the middle of the hole. It's just couldn't have been more in and now I've got this five and a half foot or six foot or

whatever it is. Looks a lot longer now it's outside the hole and now I'm anxious. I'm totally nervous when I few minutes ago I didn't even know it was on the line. Hit a god awful putt that like must have had just the you know the counteracting forces going one way I push stroke with a with a closed face or something and it like fell in on the low side and didn't deserve to. And that was a 66. I've still never gotten within better than within three of that round shot six under from the back tees,

didn't make a bogey. And that I don't, I don't think that's ever coming back ever again. All right. Well, I actually, before we go, I think the 64 is what sparked the famous internal let's go get three more meme, isn't it? I believe it must be. I feel like we've told that story before, but if we haven't, one of my favorite stories of all time, we were talking about, I don't know if it was a mailbag question or something. This was like when Neil was playing really, really good golf as well and had this rapid ascension, added a

ton of ball speed. And I think it was a mailbag question. Somebody was like, whose top end is better, you know, Solis or Neal's? And, you know, I was like, I think it's Soli and Randy's like, I think it's probably Soli and Toronto's like, Oh, no, no, I think Neal's top end is like, like his potential is like, it's five shots better than Soli's. And you, to your credit, you're downplaying it, not just being a little like, all right, let's just talk through that for a second. So my low is 64. So that means Neal's potential, he's going to go shoot 59?

Did he really strike you? You know, I think we've got a lot of video evidence out there. He's broken par one. Does he strike you as the type of guy who's going to get to, you know, eight under, nine under, just be like, yo, let's go get three more, man. Let's keep the foot on the gas. And it's just, so I think about it once a week. It makes me laugh. It makes me laugh so hard. But that's one of those he's going to go down with too. Like, yeah, we'll see. I mean, exactly. No, I'm saying top end. I'm saying top end. Exactly. Do you have a good answer to your your favorite professional golfer of all time? I got to think about it a lot. The Tiger Rory Spieth type of type of camp. I'm going to say no, just no Tiger division. Cause like that was, you know, the, the OG

in terms of getting me into it. But like, I really honestly do think it's Spieth. If I looked back at like what it was like to follow him in 2015, 16 and 17 and like how I legitimately didn't miss the opening tee shot of wherever he was playing, whenever he was playing is like probably a great sign of like, what was my favorite golfer to follow? Here, here. I don't get how it's not still like the only thing anybody ever talks about is kind of like how it, how it lives in my brain. It's like, Oh, this is the only guy, man. This is, this is it. You know, listen, I know it's been about a decade, but you had to be there, man. You had to be there. A lot of you don't realize what it was like.

I'm not sure it's walking back through that door, but it would be like the most fun if it did. It would be the absolute most fun. Uh, what about least favorite professional golfer of all time? I had to say Bubba. Yeah. Took the masters. I mean, people forget how bad Bubba was in this time period, like skipping the long drive at the PGA championship, saw the Arc de whatever in France and hated it. Truly did the worst possible thing in every

scenario while playing really good golf, which made him hateable. Like it took the, I took the Masters away from Spieth, won two Masters. He was, he was probably my least favorite golfer. Like the current version of Bubba, not as much, but like back in the day when he was really good, that guy sucked. I remember early, early story and I truly listen, things happen. I don't hold this against him. It's just kind of funny. US Open at Congressional was the first major I'd ever gone to. I was working for Golf Week magazine. It was like a Thursday. I'm writing the sixth story of the day because Jeff Root

and Jim McCabe and Brad Klein and all these other guys are there writing the top stories. So they're basically just like, yeah, we'll pay for you to go and I don't know, write about the amateurs or something like that for a little sidebar. And for whatever reason, I convinced people, I was like, I kinda wanna follow Bubba for the day and just like see what it's like, see what fans are like, people really love this guy, I wanna do a little overheard in the gallery sort of stuff

and I'll just write a little like, you know, piece of what it's like following Bubba at a major. And so I followed him for all 18 holes, congressional, so sweaty and like like just a pretty miserable experience. And then I think he like bogey the last hole and I'm waiting for him in the clubhouse to come out and just like, all right. So I'm like asking all the other journalists, I'm like, so I can just wait outside the locker room and then like I just grab him when he comes out there.

Yep. Just tell them who you are and I'm sure I'll answer a couple of questions. I was like, all right, great. And so I'm like, I dedicated my whole day to this. I'm like, all right, I got it. I got a couple of questions. I'm going to ask him to fill in the gaps and I'm standing outside this locker room. He's waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting. Doesn't come out. Doesn't come out. I think I missed them. So I'm still like standing there waiting. Finally, just like barges out the door, still pissed about the finish or something. I don't know. And

I'm just like, Hey, bubba, I'm such and such. Can I talk to you about it? He's like, Nope. And he just like, he just bolts. I'm like, kind of half chasing them half. It's like, Oh, wow. Just like, man, that was just like eight hours. And I just, just down the tubes. Like, fuck man. Like that. That's, that was the first time I think I realized like, Oh, wow. Like that can happen. Huh? Like that. Yeah. I got to pick my man, like that. That was the first time I think I realized like, oh wow, like that can happen, huh? Like that's, I gotta pick my spots here, man. This is a little tougher than I thought it was. Anyways, that's what I was thinking about with Bubba.

This is much more of a Neil question, but it's one I always like to ask. If your golf game was a car, what kind of car would it be? Let's say a Volkswagen Atlas. If your golf game was a car, what kind of car would it be? Let's say a Volkswagen Atlas. It's got a lot of good features. Yeah. It's nice. Big SUV. A lot of good features. Yeah. It's not premium. It's not special. You're not special, man. Like I've tried to convince myself. I am. I'm not special. I want to have a lot of families would love to have one of those. Yeah. Oh, it's totally nice to have. yeah. It's got all the storage you could possibly need. You could fit everyone in there.

Looks good. Sure, nice looking car. Yeah, just not premium, not special. No one's growing up dreaming to have one, I suppose. Exactly. Not a swing you're dying to have. It doesn't look sexy. I've caught myself from saying it anymore. Maybe I have said it in the past. It's just like, man't look sexy. It, I've caught myself from ever from like saying it anymore.

Maybe I have said it in the past. It was just like, man, if you give me, if everything is dialed in perfect. And if you give me all the time in the world to practice and play a shitload of golf, like, dude, I'm really good. Like, like, listen to yourself. Who would not be good with all of those things lined up perfectly? One of my favorite golf comments ever from my good friend, Big Play Ray, used to say something very similar. He's like, yeah, I mean, I would be a tour player. It's dead straight face. He would say this every time.

Yeah, like I would be a tour player. The only thing that's holding me back is unlimited range access. Like if I had unlimited range access, like, of course I could figure it out. I was like, no, I don't think you could, man. No way. You sometimes switch between stack and tilt and regular swing like on the same round like I don't think I think more range Balls would be a huge detriment to you It's just unlimited range access that phrase is always stuck in my head is one of the funniest things I've ever heard

Especially going back to the 61 in front of Jim Fierich sort of first story All right last thing If you could ask a genie one thing for your golf game, what's the biggest request? What's top of the list right now? I don't know if this is within the spirit of the question, but like, if when I do find the field wish for a thousand wishes, like actually have it get ingrained, like it not have to be something you have to remind yourself on the next day. And you know, the feeling of I never got a really good day of golf going, I was

going to play like an E9 and I don't want to go to sleep because I don't want that feeling to go away. And it always goes away the next day. And I wish I could describe it. But you know, that actual feel, whatever it is, of the club traveling through the zone, I'm not saying you got to hit it perfect every day, but just like whatever that feel is, I just wish it could actually be ingrained and become second nature to me, even with some time. It's such an unrealistic. That's why it's a genie. I

just actually feel embedded the more I sound it out. Well, I would point you back to the podcast you did with your favorite golfer of all time, Jordan Spieth, talking about all the different swing fields he's had as just an illustration of how fleeting these things maybe can be. I don't know that anybody's gone through their whole career just like, yeah, no, I have one feel and I just, I dialed it in and now I'm solved, you know, which is fascinating. It's like the best thing about golf, worst thing about golf, of course, but also kind of the best. With as much golf as I've played and lessons I've taken and resources I have at my fingertips, I do feel like my 30th percentile golf should be a lot better. And maybe that doesn't really matter, but I should not threaten the 80s as often as I do.

Like I feel, I do feel that. And I've just, my game off the tee has deteriorated so much over the years. Yeah. Maybe that's just maybe the genie wish is just like, I wish I could just find the fairway, you know, that sounds counterintuitive to like the stack stuff I'm doing, but it's actually not like I'm working back towards like the feeling of not feeling like I need to mash everything and feeling like I just can cruise down fairways is what I hope to get back to. All right. Big finish. We've done this with, with all the episodes. It's been a really good, really good, really good, really good, really good I need to mash everything and feeling like I just can cruise down fairways is what I hope to get back to.

All right. Big finish. We've done this with, with all the episodes. It's the most talked about part of these episodes. Tron lost sleep. He I've I'm on group texts with him, with members of clubs that he said was his favorite place in the world that he didn't even make his top 10. It's just, so I'm going to put you in the, in the blender here, top 10 favorite golf courses of all time on top 10. It's just, I'm gonna put you in the blender here. Top 10 favorite golf courses of all time on planet earth. Let's do it starting with number 10.

Yeah, hate the list already. So I'm gonna put any top 10 favorite list has to have this course on it in some way and I'll work back on it. And that's West Lancashire in Northwest England. Did not see that coming. Yeah, it is ranked as the 35th best course in England or something like that. So how's it a top 10 of my favorites is it's

just in that category of place I didn't know existed. And talk about like having your eyes opened to a level of golf and a style of golf. The fact that I didn't know it existed becomes such a positive of you can uncover these gems that people don't talk about are equally amazing and as fun as number nine on this list. Like I've played it three or four times now and every time I go back, I'm like, all right, I've probably overbuilt this up too much. I'm like, no, it's even better than I remember. Like it just, it has so many fun shots that are like defined links golf for me of, you know, like I

think about the approach into the second hole, which is a par five, like these guys, it's got one or two, I forget, of these bunkers that, like, just a pop bunker that frames that entry shot. And you undoubtedly have to shape a shot in some way with wind around that bunker to get there. Like you're anytime you're aiming away from the flag and trying to use contours and elements to bring the ball back to it is like when golf is at its best for me. And you just do that on repeat on this golf course. It's got so many little nooks and crannies and angles of it shifting and the shapes of the greens and the shapes

of the bunkers leading up into it. I just freaking love that golf course. And I think about it all the time. And it is representative of an entire class, of course, that I just spend so much time thinking about. I put County Sligo in that category as well of just like, dude, that sixth hole, I think about that one all the freaking time. That place freaking ruled. Siloth on Saltway goes in this category of this weird random place. Dukes is in this category as well of just these amazing golf courses that specifically aren't at the top of list that I've had such a great time. It's quite legitimately defined my pursuit of golf, I think of just, I don't know, the enjoyment I've gotten out of playing a mid tier level links course kill spendy and almost

put on this list as well of just, I wish I could tell you why I think about this place so much, but I do. And that's that one. I love it. All right. Number nine, La Hinch, Western Ireland, I really felt like I needed some Ireland representation on this list. And that place sticks out to me that front nine is just incredible. You just keep working backwards of like, that six holes awesome. Well, of

course, the fifth hole is awesome. Four, and that one's really sweet. Three though, I mean, that one's pretty darn cool too. And some great holes in that back nine. It's not a perfect golf course. But that town, the way it sits there, it's that's a magical place. And I have many, many great memories there. Eight, it's a new addition to the list. Not new that I've played,

but I just maybe have underrepresented this one over the years. And that is the old course at Sunningdale. Now this place was on just during the Curtis Cup. It just like, I have never been there, but it just exploded my brain that I had never been here watching it on TV. I'm like, this looks like the coolest place

on planet earth. Heathland golf might be my favorite of all of it. It's got all the elements of Lingus golf without like just being near the scene. It's got more, a little more undulation, a little bit more exploratory nature, kind of a forest feel to it. But they have so much width on these golf courses

that it's still just, it's an awesome playground. It is a magical, magical golf course, unbelievable facility. The new course is also incredible there. I just haven't played that one nearly as recent as I've played the old and I mean, I haven't been to this place in five and a half years, I think, but it is just an awesome freaking golf experience. And I don't think I've played 10 better ones than that one. I love it. Seven I've banded dunes. The OG bandin again needed bandin

representation here. And that's easily my favorite of it. I don't care what dope says about it. I don't care what anybody says about definitely don't care what pooch says about it. I think it's easily the best course abandoned it is the hardest one to unlock requires the most thinking and the most strategy. And the one that changes the most with with different winds and different conditions. I take that back. Pacific changes the most with that North wind because it

becomes unplayable and legitimately flawed. But abandoned is just it's my favorite that fourth hole that reveal the way they work like the 12th hole and the way 13 14 that's a little bit of a the best course at Bannon and my favorite. Number six. You're not going to fight this one. North Baric in Scotland. Speaking of nine holes, it really starts with the ninth hole. The front nine can be a little underwhelming, but nine is awesome. And it flows into one of the great back nines, great nine

holes in all of golf. Another one of those places that every time you go back, it just gets a little bit better every single time. And it's maybe even underrated at six. Yeah. Also one of those that like has just gotten so much, uh, pub on social media or wherever over the last decade that you almost kind of have this inkling to be like, I don't know, is it kind of like, overrated? Like, no, it's not, dude. It's not. See, listen, challenge flag on TC saying he'd split five rounds between here and

Dunbar. And I've never been to Dunbar and I really want to play it. There's no chances as a five and five might be one of those visits to my top five. It might be. I need to, I do him and KVV both have said some pretty powerful things about Dunbar. I need to, uh, would you go see it next time I'm there? It has felt too much like too much of a slight to North Baric. Anyways, that's a different topic. Number five is Pinehurst number two. Got to play there again in March.

And honestly, if I hadn't gotten to play there in March, it might have just over time eroded off the list, and that would have been unjust. It's frickin' awesome. It's awesome that that place is accessible. And getting to experience it with a bunch of people that were playing it for the first time, my spoiled ass can tend to, you know, just be like, it's really hard to walk off courses, like being stunned,

being in awe anymore when you're as lucky as we are, which is so like getting to experience it and like seeing the faces and seeing the reaction of like being in awe of it, seeing it for the first time, like reminded me of how special that golf course is. And it's like, perfect. It's like perfect golf course. Yes. It's like when people talk about perfect albums, perfect movies. Like, no, that's that's piner's number two. Like, it's just not there's not one one thing I would change about anything. It's it's, it's perfect. Yeah. Yeah, if you're nitpicking, like maybe like 1011

is a little weak ish stretch. Like that's honestly, that's fine. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Like it's, it's tough. Uh, number four, I have Tara. Interesting. Just dropping down the rankings. Well, a former number one holder, I believe that former tile belt holder. Well, this is this, this top four is its own tier, right? It's hard for me to like, we suss out among these top four. But again, that might've been erosion of I haven't been there in seven years. I've only been there once and played it once and it rocked my faces, multiple faces off. But it, you know, I have to have it there because I had to put the Royal Melbourne composite above it because

hadn't played it played it for the first time in 2023 and it's it's like the best capital g golf course yeah yeah and the two that I have above it are great or I have above it first for reasons that will become very clear when we get to them. But like I would say Royal Melbourne Composites the best golf course I've ever played and how it uses the land and how, and I have more appreciation for this one having watched seven days of tournament play out there, seven days of practice round in tournament play and just walking the grounds multiple times, seeing how the top players, some of the top amateurs in the world play the golf course and seeing it under competition lens and then playing it was like a different, just gave me a different level of

appreciation for the routing and what the effects the ground has on how you play it, the requirements of the shots. If the wind is coming off the right and the pin is on the right, you have to cut it. You have to, or you will be 60 feet away. Like, and that just doesn't, you just don't experience that at many golf courses in the U S. All right. Number two, I'm trying to, I have my guesses, but I'm trying to, uh, trying to just obviously know what one of them, what was that? Yeah. Yeah. What would your guess be? Oh, old courses obviously on there. And then I'm, I'm trying to, I don't know. I mean, I don't think you're going pine Valley. I'm wondering if you're maybe going hard string

pole. You know, you spoke so highly of this, this Riviera earlier. Maybe you're, maybe you're going with like really leaning on favorite rather than best. I don't know. Go ahead. It's so obvious when you, when like you're, you're overthinking it. Like it's, it's so obvious. Is it old course, new course? No, Old course is number one. We'll get there, but like. In the States or not in the States? In the States. It's so obvious. Really?

What course would you like want to play probably more than anyone in the world? Oh, well actually I don't know. Cyprus? Like one of the hardest courses to get on in the world. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, God, I totally forgot. Augusta, okay, of course, of course, of course.

That didn't even compete as like a course. I know. Play. Yeah. I've, I've said many times, like I have three favorite courses and I forget, I do forget. I'm like, I do forgot I got to play Augusta. Um, I mean, yeah, Augusta was, which one's number two Augusta's number two. It's yeah, it was, it was better playing it than I thought it was going to be even. I talked about this after we played it, but it, you know, it over time, my desire to play it had weirdly eroded or I don't know, just not, it felt too far fetched or it, you know, my, my preference for link style courses and a different style of play had play had made it up in my head

that I wouldn't wanna play it that much. And it was, and yet you're just adding this layer of context of watching the masters there for that many years and just, there's no separate, like it's not that much better than other courses on this list taking the masters away, but we just have all this different context on it that it becomes like the most, one of the most special, but we just have all this different context on it that it becomes like the most, one of the most special walks you could ever have in your life. And it, it, it deserved a place high up on the list. Of course. Which brings us to number one. I think a lot of, a lot of

bet slips probably would have, would have cashed here with this one. Sure. The obvious, not trying to be controversial with it, but like it was not a take I had first time two times I played it I've told the story often of my caddy Brett Murray who took me around the third time I played it like light bulb going off in many like that was like where my golf life began like a second golf life began that day in July of 2017 of what just shepherding me around away from the bunkers getting me the best angles into the pins, hitting the proper shots, like hitting away from certain pins at certain pins. It was just like watching the town get bigger,

like just adding up all the factors that go into it. The St. Andrew's links trust what they do to protect the experience from being heavily bastardized and corporatized and the amazing work they do to get as many people on that course as they can. The history, I mean, the history of the place is like hard to just throw that in as a sentence. Like this is where the game comes from. And the fact that the golf course is still that much fun to play and that much fun to play in different

conditions. And it's a place where you, I always like in a cheesy way, like to say like, it's a course where you can express yourself. like it does not tell you how to play it you can do so many different things like it's a skate park it's an adventure like you can there's many many different ways to make a bogey on a lot of those holes and there's many different ways to make a birdie as well and it just never ceases to become an absolute thrill ride and I just have more appreciation for it every time we go and every time we see it. And, um, I'm so thankful that, um, a place like that exists in the game of golf. Cause the old shit really just, I don't know,

the fact that it dates back to King James and stuff like that is just kind of legitimately hard to comprehend. And I'm very thankful for what golf has given me in my life and all like stems back to that place and you can go visit it and you can play it. And the golf course is that fun and the town is that fun and it becomes like the most fun place to talk about with other people and you can go into the pubs and talk about it with other people and people can spend their summers there playing it 40 times and it's just a good truly the one of the warmest places in off golf and it's my favorite. Well no better place to rap than than there.

I don't think that's a great list. I wouldn't, you know, you said you hate that list. I didn't hate about that. Well, I thought about it, but Karn didn't make it, which felt wrong. Dornak didn't make it, Brora didn't make it somehow. That's interesting that I didn't realize you hated all those places, but now we know.

It was not hard for me to leave off Pine Valley, Shinnecock, Cypress, some of the top 10 courses, just because I just, as amazing as those places are, I wouldn't say favorite is what comes to mind. Incredible experiences, have loved played them, would love to play again, not overrated. It's just hard for such a highly rated course, honestly, to enter my favorite, just like it's just hard for like a, such a highly rated course,

honestly, to enter my favorite just because it comes with such expectations. I don't know if that makes sense at all, but well, this was a, this was a delight. Thanks for, for the background, for all the stories and then for a, a tidy, a tidy good list there at the end. So it's great, great talking golf with you as always. Well, thanks for letting me, let me rant. And I have no idea if this was interesting or not, but, uh, I appreciative of, of this, this platform, uh, and this, in this whole endeavor that we're on to get, to have these golf experiences and get to talk about them.

Cause without that, it would be, uh, it would not be the same relationship with the game of golf as well. So here, here. Well, we will, uh, we will catch everybody next time. Cheers. Crack on.