No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 118: Waste Management Phoenix Open Recap

Episode Date: February 5, 2018

Neil, Tron, DJ, and Soly spent the weekend at the Waste Management Phoenix Open, and survived to tell the tale. Tune in for tales from the desert, including an inside look at the debauchery that... The post NLU Podcast, Episode 118: Waste Management Phoenix Open Recap appeared first on No Laying Up. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yes. That is better than most. I'm not in. That is better than most. Better than most. Battle the most! Ladies and gentlemen welcome back to the No-Lang-Up Podcast. First ever, first four-manor that we've got with the new, we got some new equipment here. We got the new rig. We got the new, the nuclear football here. Uh, new mixer here. This is, uh, we are here in Phoenix.

We just wrapped a week at the Wasteman's with Phoenix Open. Young Neil, AK aka little Merchie On the mic first ever mic pod for you first mic pod long time listener first time mic Dup or yeah, you don't know what to do with your hands happy to be here Took the chips away from Tron so sound quality should be crystal clear. We got Tronald here You should have said presented by the AK Chin Indian community. That's true. They came up big this week.

That's the name of the tournament. The waste vanishing Phoenix Open presented by the AK Chin Indian community. DJ Pi, got some video editing going on over here. The Super Bowl is on right now. Super Bowl is on. We are bypassing this, the Super Bowl. We could care less.

It should be the Jags. Should be the Jags. It's a bit of salt in the wounds. And actually the Jags would have put up a better fight. We could care less. It should be the Jags. It should be the Jags. It's a bit of salt in the woods. The Jags would have put up a better fight. That's for sure. So far it's 15-3 at the moment. We're not going to do a play-by-play of the Super Bowl. But want to talk about our week weekend, really, at the Wastemanagement Phoenix Open. Presented by the AK Premier. First time for me, first time for Neil. Dej, a veteran of the event, how many times? I think this is probably my fifth time I've been here,

fourth and fifth time. And Tronald? This was my second, but like a decade apart. How much has it changed in the last 10 years? I was really worried about the corporatization. That was a big concern coming in. Of number 16. Yeah, Randy was concerned. I was concerned. We were like, hey, did we want to come?

You know try to kind of amplify what's Maybe that we don't like here coming but we actually turned out well. I was Blown away it that tournament hasn't lost its soul I was kind of thinking like it with how much we've heard discussions of the corporatization of 16 and of course It's changed a ton that the everyday man was getting shut out at no point during Saturday Did I think that there like wasn't enough seating for the actually increase the seating? I think they have yeah It seems like the ball is kind of bouncing back the other way towards adding more

More public seating and stuff. I mean, I don't know if we have any hard data to support that. It's it's very smell test the only caveat that I'd make is adding seats, I'd say, is more structured and there are longer lines. I wouldn't know that because I'd never been here, but I got to think that when you put stands in, it prevents people from just walking up to a grassy knoll and sitting down and just kind of, it's a free for all. The lines were serious. Very serious. At like seven o'clock in the morning on Saturday.

Yeah. We'll get to Saturday. Yeah, we'll get there. We'll get there. Can you give a quick shout out to the circumstances you were here under the last time, 10 years ago. I'm a big fan of the whole situation. Yeah, Randy and I would take a hiatus from our studies at the U.

Sybatical. Yeah, Sybatical, Shao Rory. And we were actually in Breckenridge, Colorado, kind of ski bumping it for a few months, decided to head down here. We'd heard good things, so we, I was still under the age of 21, so I was drinking two-bucked chuck in the parking lot trying to get It's much of a buzz on as possible. Statue limitations on that Actually just picked up some two buck chuck just to

And it was yeah, that was 2006 I believe 2007 so But yeah, it was fantastic and like we actually even go to the tournament on Sunday, we went Thursday, Friday, Saturday. It was great. I've been wanting to come back ever since. Friday, we roll in. Should we talk about who won?

Oh, who did win? We were most like, I wasn't watching much in the tournament. I was deep into edit, Bay. Yeah. Most people were telling the tournament. There was not a, it's Sunday. Today we focused a lot about the golf. It was a Sunday. Today we focused a lot of building the golf. It was relatively serious. There's not a lot of watching watching going on at this golf tournament. As you

might imagine, the crowd was like today was the lowest attended day. Wednesday at the practice round Wednesday had a low higher attended. It's like the worst hangover day. Well, it feels like everybody has the Sunday scary. But even then, it was 60, it was like 64,000 there today, which is probably a great number for any other tournament for a Sunday. Incredibly massive number for any of the tournament. You could not do it. After Saturday.

I mean, it's like I said this, like there's no way I'm ever going to doubt their attendance numbers again. I've never seen anything like that. It sounded like they were relatively Well sourced. Well, I would like to also point out we thought that they counted the cars in the parking lot Which It's this is not true because everybody gets scans a ticket to get in so that clearly have a count of who gets in the gate Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. It's been reported in the past. It's like 3.2 people per car is what it is. And some of the, I don't know how they still do it, but that was not the one.

Look, Sally's not here to audit. Yeah, well, I don't know just like, say, whoever said that, I mean, that seems erroneous. It's reckless, really. There's tickets. They scanned me. They know where you are. You're inside the gates. They knew where you were.

Yeah, you were talking about that. You're kind of in the system. Yeah. Well, yeah, I mean, wasn't a lot of golf watching going up from me. I was trying to get her to land merch. Yeah, you know, the merch star was out there trying to get rid of some t-shirts in the Scottsdale Police Department didn't feel real good about that. So he asked me to leave.

On how many fronts were you shut down trying to distribute merch this week? Well, too, so the air cannon was also gonna be a no for the tournament Not an air cannon a T-shirt T-shirt cannon trying to get a t-shirt cannon inside this inside the stadium at 16 and it's gonna be a no for the Once we got the t-shirt cannon, I realized it did look a little hostile and I think it would have been a liability carrying that around yeah So you know, I just had to use the howards on my right shoulder to just hawk to easily play. A lot of play action. Yeah.

A lot of play action. But yeah, I was able to bounce back after my guy at the Scottsville PD escorted me off the premises and get back out there. And then we ended up actually what the premises technically well I told I allegedly was he said I was a nice old older gentleman about 70 years old Bob Bob a T from me and As we were doing the haggle to down to ten bucks. Yeah, he got he said 20 and he's like I got ten I said sign come on man. Let's go, you know

I'm we're a small shop and as we were making the exchange the guy cop came up behind me not real good But he said I had to have some kind of permit to sell stuff I don't know small shop, you know small business. I didn't see him saying that to the Girl Scouts That's what I was thinking Did you tell that there were people slaying a Girl got cookies up there? No, I didn't get that. He's looking the other way. He's probably on the take. No, I had to take my box of shirts

to an undisclosed location. All right. Well, then we ended up. We did find a hey, it was a good ending. It was a good ending. We went and dropped them off at the Patriots outpost for birdies for the brave. Yeah, birdies for the brave.

Which we should just done to start with. Yeah, I agree. But as the merch star done to start with. Yeah, I agree. But as the merch are, I figured I had to, you know, I got to earn my stripes out there, you know. Sure. I mean, what kind of, kind of proprietor of a peril would I be if I wasn't hawking an outside of sporting event? You were throwing, you were, you were Tom Bradying out there when, during the rush on Saturday

morning, just pointing people out. Saturday was for hucking. Yeah. Well, let's get to the only talk Friday first. Sunday was for Hocking. Let's all surprise on our flight from from Atlanta to Phoenix Charles Barkley around the roundabout. It's like. That's terrible. I don't think that's terrible. I don't think I've been. And we obviously are around like golfers a lot and kind of see them as famous people. I've never seen like what like what happened to Charles at the Atlanta airport I've never seen like what, like what happened to Charles at the Atlanta airport

I've never seen before. First of all, it's like six o'clock in the morning. It's what 20 people came up to him within a 10 minutes. 15 minutes. Yeah, just asked him to take pictures. And he was perfect like every single one of them. He was heading to Phoenix to pick up his boys and then they were off to Vegas for the Super Bowl.

I just never seen anything like that. That was crazy. I like, how about Stu sink walking up to That was the only guy that walked up to him that he knew Stuart sink roll enough to sink out And Stu can stew go away back and stew and stew rolls of carrying his Trackman in the neoprene sleeve in the official track man sleeve. Yeah So we got that we got in Friday. We just want to get a little land.

We didn't see a ton except for, we're walkin' by the range. First thing we see, walkin' by the range. See, only guy out there hitting balls, pretty late at night. Deep in the process. Deep in the process. Alex Noren, we saw him hit one ball and he shanked it. Yeah. He did.

He did. He looked at me. He did. And then I just, I saw it. Solid, what's your norm take? The case closed. The case closed now. I saw it too. And then I you know, I just saw it. What's your norm take the case closed? Case closed now. We saw saw the shake which we've seen we've seen Tron shank it on command though. He could have been working on that West West Brian said that means you're an excellent ball striker. You could have been like

right. You're right. I said from shoulder through working on the shank shot shape. I'll say so I came out of New York on an American Airlines flight and it was the land of quarter zips. And there was a lot of lots of logos. A lot of batches. A lot of batches for parties. Oh my god. Out here this weekend, a lot of batches for parties on the flight. A lot of people telling you about their best love.

Loving it, having a hashtag for it. What was it, the glow job guys? Yeah, shout out to the glow job. Shout out to the glow job guys yeah shout out to the glow job for the go jobs uh... and then uh... what was the norin shank was a four warning for what we would see on friday night the sixteen i was not a remember exactly one shot that we saw on friday afternoon

uh... and that was uh... he and polter shanking into the grandstands and that's coming to rest within the grandstands and dj and then not only it so it came to rest. And then someone, and this is when I think 16, like 16 really, I've been there a bunch, really kind of cemented its plays in my heart. This week I think, you know, all I'll regularly feel someone threw the ball back.

They chanted throw it back. And then someone threw it, ill into the fairway. Paul's remind us of Henry Rowan Gardner. Exactly. And then the shot tracker said the ball just ended up in the middle of the fairway. Yeah, it did. It messed up the shot tracker.

Pulse, all right, I think I'm ready to kind of say it. I might be coming around on Pulse. He laughed about it. He went high five, the guy threw it back. And then he came back next day. They boot him, obviously, missed the green and then put his hand to his ear, trying to pump the crowd up. I think he's just, he's like a professional wrestler yeah but then we saw

he was not a parking lot in the in a four he's on his phone on his phone and he was hot he was hot the wine the way he almost mode on and old he did he was not he was not he's not respecting his elders uh... i thought i was gonna get my credential revoked was that oh god i was so nervous after that shot was hit

because Tron was directly behind the T-box, literally jumping for joy. No, I wasn't even jumping for joy. He was just reacting like so shh. There's a shock that what I had just witnessed. He just started bouncing up and down. I couldn't contain myself. I thought for sure that was gonna be a TV.

So that about wraps Friday night, we were just totally wiped, because we were getting reports. Well, we got some sushi. Well, we did get some sushi on Friday, but the goal, the main purpose of it was to do the whole thing. Oh my God, really.

It's so fire. The, the, oh my God, roll. Tin foil, twist some tin foil, and then they put a lighter underneath it. I call it the Kurt Schilling role. It looked like a tin foil hat. That was a good sushi place though. Wood return.

Who knew a thing? And pay us and we're not going to say the same thing. Not good enough for me to leave a review, but I'd go back. Got some sushi and then woke up Saturday morning that we essentially came to see Saturday and kind of document it. The breakfast. The whole experience, the breakfast club, from beginning

to end, and we'll have something very shortly here that kind of illustrates that more visually. But we would say the hotel is basically walking distance. We come outside the hotel and we turn the corner and you could already start hearing it. 6.30 in the morning. Yeah, totally don't. Maybe even before that. I mean it was pitch black. The breakfast club is the first year they've done this I think. But guys have started lining up. The guys in the front of the line started lining up at four. They were probably what

2000 people there at least. Maybe. There was some fire safety issues there. If we're being honest. People were lined, just stacked up and just screaming, just lined up in front of the fan interaction. Yeah, tamty-fagged. I don't think there was like, it was like an obstacle course. I don't think there was any fire safety issues because they had a couple of massive fire trucks, right? That's true.

That's fair point. But Neal tagged. People were singing the national anthem. There's beach balls flying and stuff in the line. The media is just lining up on the inside ready to catch the run. Yeah, the local news too. Yeah, the local news is on the spot. I think the national media was ziggin' and they were ziggin' because they had some good news. It was funny to kind of the state of local news state of local media

They didn't really interview us. They just kind of screamed at us from across the street Where you guys from kind of be quick. Yeah, I think Todd y'all do So not my favorite part was they didn't let anybody in until 7am on the dot. And everybody's seen like the horribly awkward footage from the masters when the gate opens and everybody does like the all hip power walk. Trying to get out to Amen Corner. Race walk. This was the exact opposite of that where they're like, all right, 7am.

Everybody run literally as fast as you can to get to 16. They did let them through and Staggered so it was I mean shout out to the tournament for Keeping things from giving us the first time It's like all these people running just sprinting and then you like somebody crushing really quick Crutches something like a like one of those wheel, like knee surgery. Yeah, knee surgery.

They're using like a, you know, putting one foot on a wheelchair or whatever you want to call it and trying to go by as fast as possible. We set up in different spots and set up in a tunnel. Kneels in the tunnel in the back and just looking for receivers. I've got T-shirts rolled out.

I was throwing Spider-2, Y Banana, with the best side of the NIS. And then I threw a couple run pass options, the RPO. The official line, I think Neil was three for 42, for 19 D.R. It's in four-interstession. Come on, man, I had to do a pinchable bolt. The timing was off.

They didn't want to run a big route. His receiver sucked. They did. His receiver's let him down. I think the eye in the sky does not lie. Peter King said he has happy feet. I'm going to be. We're going to roll back the footage.

We're going to check out. We're going to watch the tape later. We're going to check the tape. It's never as good as you think. It's never as bad as you think. All right, a real quick break. Tron, we played around golf this week. First round of golf with the rogue in the bag.

I want to hear your review. What do you think? A second round of the year. Yeah, what really really straight. You don't have your little wipey-fade anymore I don't think yeah, I kind of I was kind of taking it back. How does it feel different? Just for more forgiving. Yeah, I think it was it seemed a little bit hotter sounds different to sounds better We're excited about it from the rogue are you pretty I was kind of Were you excited about it for the Rogue or are you pretty I was kind of Be honest not yeah, like I don't I thought that pick was kind of a big leap forward and then the Rogue was all right Whatever like I'm not sure how much more they can improve upon it and I was blown away. Yes pretty impressive

It's pretty easy transition. I thought it was gonna I had to in my bag for a second just a kind of ease in the transition And yeah, I'm ready to move fully onto the Rogue up I'm surprised how many guys on tour we were out this week, had the road already in the bag as well. I don't think I remember seeing anybody with the epic in the bag. I am just as excited about, probably more excited about the Faroei Wood. Everybody says the Faroei is in the bag.

I know, I'm ready for the Faroei. So I haven't hit it yet, I'm so ready for that. The jailbreak is coming in the three wood. CallabyGolf.com for more. Callaway is the number one driver in golf. It is in stores this Friday, February 9th. Let's get back to the podcast. But the 16th of all is far enough away

that like everyone runs and then like we're kind of walking just to get there and how far we're running you think it is. You were running out of breath. Oh, you get up for sure. For sure. You were running out of breath like a way. No, they get out of breath. You get up for 17th hole and then like, they were running out of breath like a minute. They were probably not the way that. They got out of breath at 18th tee.

You know, you come around the corner. It was probably three quarters of a mile. Yeah, people underestimate, they're not totally prepared for that. Because I was out there, I was waiting on 16. You could hear the rush just coming. And I could hear people and then I saw like, Elmo and Big Bear.

So yeah, Big Bear. The bird nerdy. And the Teletubby is like everybody, like all of a sudden I just see all these people. And then people started running over the T-Box on 17. And like the Marshalls are freaking out. It was great. So I mean, the first, the people,

doors open at seven. The first T-Time is at 10 o'clock. So there's legitimately, push back even. Yeah. The first people to come through was Ben Martin's group at 10 o'clock. So there's legitimately. They're pushed back even. Yeah. The first people to come through was Ben Martin's group at about 11, 30. So they're at four and a half hours. And I don't think they start selling beer right away either.

Like you kind of just sit there for a while, but the first half hour was nuts. As soon as it fills up, the music starts, there's a DJ there just spinning. Yeah, a DJ that wasn't too. And Angie Shulow-Merchie here was just in charge of pumping up the entire crowd. And just people love free stuff.

They love power trip for you there. Love free stuff. Just manipulating the crowd. Well, you know what, he figured, all right, you're not gonna let me have a t-shirt cannon. I'm gonna put my real cannon on. Totally. I got loose in the entire lock on the way.

Your completion percentage went way up out there. He was throwing five like just hail Mary. It was kind of get settled in Huh, you just need to make some you need one series to get settled in. I know man You had your feet on your your can we go back to Friday those those dudes from Minnesota That were just like he Chris oh Yeah, we had saw his got some famed These guys from Minnesota they were just, they just kept calling you Chris. They were churred.

They were heckling. I was getting heckling. Like, hey Chris, I bet he misses this. Five bucks, five bucks. They had the high position, that's the thing. So you're under these bleachers and it really feels like a baseball stadium. It's probably 10 to 12 foot up until the end of the stands.

And people are just looking down on you from an elevated position. All of the rock, and the scene in this shower on Alcatraz. The assisted room. Yeah, you know, they come out and they, you know, you show your, you're kind of, you're outflanked a little bit. And, so I think got rattle a little bit there. I got, I got a little rattle.

Yeah, but you can't like, respond. Well, the other thing that we talked about too, that kind of, it shook me was, you get out there, we had filled our backpack up with T-shirts, you know, we're stocked, but you get out there and there's two three thousand people in one section You feel the pressure and everybody is just clamoring for a shirt and you get overwhelmed Yeah, and then you know like some old ladies telling you you promised her a shirt on the last round You could be throwing up waving bags of poop

Yeah, and then I got the old guy asking for a double XL I'm like man in the bottom the bag. I got the old guy asking for a double exhale. I'm like, man, it's in the bottom of the bag. I can't get that for you right now. I don't want to out any of you guys. Yeah, I was behind the camera. You guys were slinging shirts. One of you just blew through all of the shirts in about 30 seconds.

I'm raising my head. I did not hit it. I did it very well. Chris was not good at telling people about it. There's a lot of pressure. Damn, if you wanted, here, here. Here. You guys are doing it wrong. Hey, just take it into my bag.

I think it's sealant. I wasn't even throwing it. You're just giving them, handing them out. I don't want to lose the front row. I was rattled about what happened to me. You want to lose the locker room. If I lose that front row, I'm going to get heckled again. All right, guys, everybody's going to see something on the video.

It's me. I come up woefully short on a throw, there was not a rubber band around the t-shirt. Tron got booed by it. I've never seen someone get booed by an entire stadium. That's the first live as the crowd got. My guy's been setting up for 60 seconds. He ejected him.

I was expecting a rubber banded t-shirt. You know what they call that? It's good content. It was great content. All right, so I will say this though too and it goes back to the Charles Barclay thing in the airport. And so you're in there, and you have so many people yelling out whether it's for T-shirts or just shouting out

to NLU, like, I don't understand like how Phil does it, like when he walks past. And everybody's just yelling his name, and he's just able to like acknowledge them and like give them what they're looking for. I think it's just, yeah, it's just yelling his name and he's just able to like acknowledge them and like give them what they're looking for. I think it's just yeah, it's just a gear that I don't know. It's just a gear you get into and what's like I think what's what's even Weirder about it is just think about you know the one time that he doesn't react or he doesn't whatever It's me and fuck that guy. Yeah, it's that guy going for the rest of his life. Oh, that guy's a dick. Yeah

Like I screamed in his face. What time he didn't even give me anything. He got, okay. That was like Ricky today, after the round. I mean, he's, he's, he's to their ensign for. Yeah, everyone. 40 minutes, he hung out with, like, and that was actually relatively emotional, like the kid that, that passed away.

His family was, you know, like his family was there and like Ricky spent 10 minutes with them after the round. Like Ricky had a really disappointing day, you know, know and like just you couldn't tell one bit it was watching those guys after the round go from like media hit to media hit to media hit to sign to like golf channel sky CBS just all the crap they got to do it but the press do it that's what the guys that do it well man I have the utmost respect for because like you said yeah it's awkward like when people are just especially when you have like the free t-shirts. Yeah, well, I'm just not used to being inside the ropes like you know I'm not I'm not on the the pro am circuit like like these guys in here, and it's like it's a little overwhelming

I can only imagine if I actually like was good Or somebody that it would be twice as bad or ten times as bad, but what is it about? People are just yelling, you're walking down the inside of the room so people are just like yelling Sometimes no laying up stuff sometimes just because you're in there Like it's like this got things you see. Yeah, like it's like I don't know what to do Well, I think so that's maybe like a way to transition in the kind of like the general vibe of this event because I've been here Like quite a few times like I said and the I guess where I've kind of settled on it is for one day, it's like as much fun as you can have. And novelties are good.

It's awesome. But I've also been here on trips where I'm here for seven days, and by like day seven when someone's like, yo, what's your camera for? Yo, take my picture. Where's this going? Yeah, on my website.

Oh, maybe this isn't the best. Imagine playing the highest level of golf in the world at the same time as something is doing that. It's just, it's a player's looking a little rattle, more rattle than I thought they would be. I think if you're playing this event, you should know exactly what you're signing up for. Or your Bubba and you're going for your sponsors.

This is true. They've re-embraced it. But like, yeah, I don't know. Guys were getting really, I don't know. I just kind of always thought on like 16, you're used to people yelling while you're putting and stuff, but like, caddies were getting really pissed. I was all like Tim Nicholson freaked out on a fan that like

yelled, bear down, and ROMs backstroke. That's a fun thing. Not even his player. It's not even his player anymore. And he made it though. He made the plug. Look right at the dude. Yeah, can we talk about Ram being just total sociopath?

Ram. I love it. But I mean, Ram has got like, runs high. Interesting temper. Like I've ever seen. He does not care if anyone around him hears him swear. Like he, he'll get right next to the crowd

He'll talk it like some people like trying to say something supportive to him And he will like curse right back at the person like you got this No, I don't but he just gets it out. Yeah, he just gets it out. You say that he doesn't care Lisa's the poison he does not care Okay, so I don't even know what the name that song is but last night It's called I don't care and DJ So I DJ and I were we went to the bird's nest for the Nelly concert I went to to take some notes on Nelly's hype man

You know the way he's getting the crowd. I was laying in bed cuz I'm in this is like my my super bull Sleeping in a comfortable bed. It was like 8.30. I was like, oh, God. Yeah, try and stay behind. Try and stay behind. He's been on low energy. No newborn.

But so Nelly opens for Z. And so all the Z heads are ready to rage. And Z. mix is in that song at some point. And I stopped and I turned to DJ. And I said, I think this is the official song of Arizona or maybe this tournament I think yeah, I think the consensus for me is it's the it's the new money Kentucky Derby Kentucky Derby 2.0 maybe it's a hard to describe vibe out there

And I think the way I kind of said it earlier was you know nothing Nothing makes me realize how stressed out I am all the time, like being around people like this that are just couldn't be more in the moment. And the one thing, they're like lasting concern is like, dude, what time are like, should we get Margarita's tomorrow? It's just like, it's crazy. Like I'm envious of the amount of laid backness.

I think there's a reason that the recession hits Phoenix harder than anywhere else. Yeah, I don't let it long-range planning come on. I don't think. It's hard to describe, and I'm not saying it's bad or good or anything. Well, that was a big takeaway for me. It's weird. It's unique. How inebriated everybody was yesterday and just how many people were in a confined

area and like there weren't any there weren't really any fights. Everybody was pretty dossed. There was one. There was one. But but like, but like in at the players are like anywhere else like you would have just like fat bro's just going at it and that just really wasn't, there wasn't a whole lot of testosterone. Right, it was like a competitiveness. I actually heard in the way out today, I took a quick shuttle back here and the guy drive and said

that the security is like 10 times more than they had last year. Like they were able to drive to the front of the gate. This year they had to drop people off like half a mile away. Was this when the cop brought you back? Or was it a different time? No, this was later when I changed outfits and went back into the skies with the shirts on my back. But with a bunch of shirts anyway.

I had to wait till the heat was off. But for 200,000 people to be there, I think we were talking to somebody after the round yesterday and they said, there was 20, or I was talking to be there, I think we were talking to somebody after the round yesterday and they said, there was 20, or I was talking to somebody today, they said there was 26 incidences the entire day, yesterday. We're like, they had to escalate something, which was for 200,000 people being this spot, like that's not.

That's pretty good. That's a very low place. That's what the guy, the driver said that it was, this year's the first year they've had metal detectors. Like last year, it was just dudes with wands, like kind of gold mosh. Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, that's totally. I'm impressed that I am impressed that I see a very hostile towards the end of the day when it became the walking dead. Everybody was just super relaxed. There you go. There you go.

But I mean, it's good bags the question we told this earlier. It's like, all right, if you're a golf fan, I feel like it's kind of a destination golf tournament for people to go to like, oh, you've never, never like people were lighting me up. You've never been the waste management Would you guys as golf fans like make the trip here like we get to we weren't We like the purpose of us being here was like we had we had unbelievable access and like our day was spent documenting what is all gonna be like So we didn't really experience it from like the the grandstands and stuff So would you guys want to do like Saturday attending the Phoenix Open?

If I was playing golf personally, maybe like the day before the day after, and it was part of a larger trip, I think so, I would have a tough time with the lines though. So it would be interesting for me to see if I would want to like walk the rest of the course. I just think I saw like the lines from beer the lines just to get into the 16. You got to do it. I don't like lines. I don't like lines.

Or if you have access to. Yeah, so I don't want to sit here and be like, oh man, you can't miss this turnie. How about the greenskeeper? How about it? Oh, you mean the hospitality? Yeah, the hospitality town was pushed legit. I mean, you would think it was just for a grown-in-us and stuff It was actually the biggest hospitality ever seen it was it looked like a pool party in Vegas

sponsored by Hawkes on I guess we talked to Carlos Danger Carlos danger the yeah the head Thunderbird chairman Carlos Super competitive from year to year. Yeah, well here I don't want to change topics too fast. I think that's an interesting question about like would you come here or not? And it's it's a hard one like like you said Todd. I mean, it's like It's worth seeing once for sure, but I don't know. I'm kind of stuck in the middle on I would feel bad Telling the wrong person to come on Saturday. Well, maybe that's and having them show up We see a ton of bachelor parties. Yeah, and and if it. And having them show up is like, we see a ton of bachelor parties.

Yeah. And if you're, if that's what you're going to do, like you will have a awesome time. But if you're looking to watch golf and, and granted, I mean, you can go to the other side of the golf course and you can, it's a normal golf career. I think Thursday Friday, you can watch a lot of golf too. But Saturday is, I mean, is unlike anything else.

OK, so, so question off of that then for you guys. I didn't, because I was busy with the Scottsdale PD. What was your favorite whole outside of 16? 17. Well, okay, that's a good point. But 17 starting to look a lot like 16. It is, so they're trying, I feel like they're, at least looking like they're trying to expand this 60,

like overflow of the 16 into the 7. The cove in the bay. Yeah, they've got like two big seating areas now and it's like turning into, it's not never gonna be the same setup but like it's just trying to spread, you can only fit some of people in 16 and it is totally full 100% of the time.

Yep, well, you know what though? The corporate boxes were not totally full. They were, I actually, I thought they're more full today. They were full. And they were worried started. They just people don't have to line up early to get that was the one thing that was missing from 10 years ago to now was there was chance or there were chance like corporate sucks.

Corporate sucks. And there was none of that this year. There's no rivalry between they would just like point out like green shirt, green shirt. Yeah, they just peer pressure. Yeah, guys in the upper deck and it's just kind of a bipartisan Arrangement out there. We're working together America's divided no No, but you've got so you've got it back behind the tee and then on the right side up by the tee It's like very shady and quiet. It's like it's like it feels like ancient room It's like that's where the senators are sitting sitting. They're looking down, they're looking down on the Yomin, down it, it's just baking in the

sun. I think in this one dude, like, it's just, it's huge gart, a, a double XL tank, and he threw it out immediately. I think he lasted in it for like 30 minutes before he was just getting, he was baked. He was getting baked, so he had to take it off and put his shirt back on. But they're just, they're very different vibe between the two sides of the, the, the call of seam. So I think I, I would want to go. I would want to see it like, but I would go to Drink Beer to be. Yeah, totally. Go with your buddy.

And yeah, like a, like a, like a Kentucky Derby. Like I don't go to the Kentucky Derby to watch the horse race. Yeah. There are so many. You want to watch horse racing and you had a keen one so many people. You wanna watch horse racing, you go to Keenland. Sure, yeah. But yeah, you go, the little time we spent in the hospitality, I was like, you kind of lose your desire to watch golf, it kind of just drifts away.

And some of those like expo areas of that one fan zone area was just like overflowing with people. It's impossible to describe how many people there were. It's more like a music festival. Yeah, and those, yeah, exactly. It's just a huge social event. I'm not gonna lie. I thought, you know, with what I heard on the hype going in, I was expecting more more artificial mounting than we saw. I think more false fronts. More false fronts. I think minimalism is back.

I don't know. I don't know. There were some fun bags out there that served no purpose. There was some guys I'm gonna sit this one out. I'm gonna conchie and just leave Jack. There's no more to say other than I was expect only because of what people have said Gary McCord has said this on the broadcast before this is a safe topic to discuss but I don't know I was expecting more on that front I'm not disappointed. I was I was impressed so you were unimpressed. No, I just thought it was gonna be like an absolute mob of fake press Well, you know, they're there are some balls from but I would say I also well I saw some classy ladies dressed up in the morning, but by the Saturday Afternoon looks like the walking dead it really looks like's a zombie fest and a lot of people that look When they're they're dolled up and they look nice and

Then by the end of the day long faces and oh little like to make up starts to smear a little bit and and There's a hill there on 18 where it gets a little steep There was some documented a lot of a lot, I will say this about the fast too. A lot of rompers. Rompers seem to be very, very in. Yeah. I didn't see too many high heels. I saw a lot of high heels.

I could have seen a lot of heels. So why did a few high heels? Some people tried to navigate some hills. In high heels and rompers. Yeah. So that would be another reason if you wanted to come to term it. There, I would say it's phenomenal people watching. Yeah, that's true.

Right. There's a lot going on. There's a lot favorite jersey. Maybe the best. going on. There's a lot, like favorite jersey. Big jersey, Tony. So favorite jersey, I was so pissed I didn't wear the much eggs, Andre Ryzen jersey. Well, shout out to Randy Moss. He was all over the place.

He got nominated or got inducted or not. I inducted, but he's set to be inducted into the Hall Fame as of yesterday. Lot, big Minnesota continuing out here. Totally. It's really huge. And there was a ton of kind of clicks of like hockey team people. There was a bunch of Edmonton Oilers. A lot of whole.

That happy Gilmore. That happy Gilmore was pretty good. He was my favorite for sure. I think Brock Lesnar. Or the Randall Cunningham. Sixty, that guy was like a stalwart in the stands. The Lesnar 69 Viking Jersey, I think was my favorite. Very strong.

Shane Falco Jersey decided to do that. I didn't see that one, it was fantastic. There was a whole group, like the whole starting line of the mighty ducks was out there. I saw a con way out there. Yeah, you shouted him out in the hallway. It's just going, Charlie Coneway. I did. I tried to hit him with a shovel pass. He caught him a cake eater

That was out of banks. Yeah, he tried to put the varsity Aside from jerseys. What was the best outfit we saw? We saw Big Bird. We unmasked Big Bird. We did we have that footage that that may have to stay in the archives I liked the Teletubbies were good. I like the big squad wearing decalb corn t-shirts. That was just spoke to my heart. Actually, my favorite thing to, I saw a good day today with an alligator strapped his back. A good inflatorable alligator.

He walked around with it like that all day long. One thing we, you mentioned the greenskeeper, the hospitality, one thing we didn't mention on Saturday was the cheer that the greenskeeping crew got. One, the mower of the hospitality. One thing we didn't mention on Saturday was the cheer that the greens keeping crew got. One, the mower of the green. So like it gets on his mower and like rides on his sideways and is mowing or is rolling the green and he rides it. Like the crowd like builds all the way as he gets to the edge and then like erupts when he gets to the edge. That was cool. Builds as he goes back the other way. The guy plays it totally cool. It was like the Super Bowl of a Grime.

Yes, and then they bring in the guy to cut the hole. I missed this, somebody takes me there. So I mean, we've all seen a hole get cut where you gotta do some downward thrusts to really get the tool going. And every time he would bottom out this tool, people would just cheer. And then when he finally cut it,

I mean, they just went nuts. Like, he knew that he's playing into it and hamming it up. They're doing push ups. Yeah, exactly. It was kind of runs down with the flag. Yeah, he ran from the T-box to the holding both an American flag and the pin flag. It's as much fun as you can like safely have in golf.

Well, it's done really well. Of course, you could do it more ridiculous. Yeah, you could have a t-shirt, can it? Again, there's a lot of people looking at you, Mad Bro. After the safety of this thing, and there's a ton of alcohol there, that's the most fun you could offer. I was surprised.

They started selling beer right away when it's seven o'clock, I think, which was... No, I don't think they did. I saw a bunch of Miller-like cans. They had a vendor going through, I've never seen the vendor going through the, I don't think they do that during play, maybe they do. But the weird part about the whole breakfast club situation,

so the reason they called the breakfast club was, for the first time ever, they were literally throwing cases of water and breakfast burritos up to just 3700 3700 breakfast burritos delicious. Chairman, you were really good. Chairman Carless. Carless, it's a thunderbird. But that's by the way, another thunderbird.

Oh, it's a burrito shot. It's like vertical integration, yeah man. But they've never done the breakfast thing before. So just keeping guys hydrated and full and everything was cool. The thing that's kind of weird about it, and I'm curious what you guys think, it's almost like the anticipation for people showing up

was kind of better than, you know, when like Ben Martin comes through. And like, well, there's a lull after the first hour, there's a bread. And then it just kind of, on the Neil Thursday shirt. Yeah, he keeps people going. Well, it said what what it was 123 yard wedge

By the way the pin today on Sunday was much better than the pin yesterday Like I think that's a mistake to make it a short and it's tucked over that bunker Yeah, put it back left and let guys kind of swing away. I mean, Kutur almost aced it today. It was sick. Before you got an FCC violation on 17th. Yeah, first ever captured What a dickhead. I would say I'm riding in Golly man I've got a I got a Kutur take I want to see what you're trying to say about it. I think... Coacher may be the next in line for the throne of the people's champ. I mean, people love the guy.

They cheer him. They're not booing. They're not booing. They cheer him out. They're coaching. Not as they cheer to comedists. That's how they cheer Bubba and Polka. You don't have to sell me, man.

I'm team Coacher. Man, the flip flopper tron over here. Some guy yelled like, Coacher, those sketches look really comfortable Somebody that was you no way he didn't deny it That was a takeaway for me was seeing Kooch in person and seeing the way that the crowd went they went Nuts for the big homie. We were lucky enough to be nuts for the big homie. We were lucky enough to be suffering through watching this on television. Can we talk about the one hour coverage gap on Saturday afternoon? I'm I love it. I think I think the only way

this is going to get what this is going to get better is it we got it. It's got to be inside the rope. Solly loves it. Solly was so in his access. Solly was happy about it. It's the basketball game actually ended on time. Yeah, I want it blown up I want it to go so poorly that something has to change now some day comes along Apparently the CBS broadcast started at on time at on golf 302 or something. Yeah, how has this been possible the entire time and they were only now doing this for the first time I think it's just been people just rattling cages. I don't know I think it's just been people just rattling cages. I don't know. I think it's all graphics.

People were, I've never seen people have that mad. It was 46 minute delay or something yesterday, 49 minute on Saturday. I've never seen the social media reaction that strong. Especially for a tournament where like there's, you know, a 16th hole, so. Yeah, it's such a spectacle. Yeah, you want to see as many groups come through there

as possible. And like, guys, you want to see as many groups come through there as possible and like guys You missed five groups in 45 minutes. Let's not let's not crown their asses just yet I mean we are in the Arizona of the land of Dennis King Dennis Dennis Green you a crown their asses you can crown them, but let's not let them off though. Okay It happens this week. There's a chance. We were talking about it. There's a chance Okay. See what happens this week. There's a chance this week.

We were talking about it. There's a chance. A lot has to follow the right way. There's a chance that Rory could be leading Pebble and playing 7, 8, 9 during the blackout this week. It's going to happen. The 79 always gets blacked out. Is that how it works though normally on Sunday where the leader, always coming through

the best holes on the golf course? The best hole on the golf course But that's kind of still a thing I don't know if I put totally on see I can't and then they come back and we have a Sevia sports desk and then they flip it right back to commercial because they have to make up for lost No, then they hit you with it this a moment ago, but and then they go back to commercial again It's a tap in from from Carlton because that that's the other problem even if It's a tap in on 17 from Carlton or like any or no or Ray Romano is Ray Romano is shankin one in on 18. This is the CBS when they come back from the from from the coverage gap That should be the lead in for nants.

Let's clarify that. I don't think that's a CBS problem. It's a structural, like, yeah. But only thing is, maybe you move the college basketball game up half an hour to not run them up against each other. You know what? Maybe CBS and golf channel, you guys work together and figure out a graphics package that both of you guys can use. That would be wonderful.

I'm sure there's more to it than we don't know. I know that you can go to PJ tour live and stream it. I know you can go to CBS.com. It's amazing how often that's not a realistic thing. Not everyone's at home on Wi-Fi. You're home over. We were out at a bar the other day after we finished Round of Golf and like the coverage gap came on.

While we were at a bar and we're like, shit, what a party. It's just friction, man. It's like making you to air play their phone to their TV. Yeah, exactly. It's like playing with TV. It's tough enough to turn on the golf. If you get anybody to turn on the golf anyway.

Right. And then, but so something else to the two is like, even if, let's say, all right, so the broadcast is 45 minutes shorter than it would have been otherwise. And yet they still have to play the same number of commercials that they would during that larger block of time, but they have to squeeze them into a block of time that's 45 minutes. But like, how does waste management put a, like, what is their reaction to that? Like, the term that they sponsor, what is their reaction to that?

The term that they sponsor, they want their three hours coverage and it basically gets cut by 30%. How does that go over? I don't understand that. I don't know. I think part one of the ways they make up for it is if you notice the replays that they do, the following year on Golf Channel are tournaments that got short-changed by the garbage gap. They do, they do a replay. Like instead of playing, you know, say the

best tournament in the history of that event. Like, you know, like on Tuesday and I they'll do, instead of doing the, let's say the, you know, 2000 pebble, they'll do, they'll do, you know, the 2016 pebble or 2017 pebble because they got short-changed and they'll show that So Tinfoil hat there here is this true? No this is true. This is straight from the horse's mouth. Um, alright what's the best shot we saw

this week? Cooture. Cooture almost asing 16. Shank on 16. Who I don't know, who was, who went long yesterday Shoffley? On Friday. On Friday. Friday. Yeah that was ridiculous. Who I don't know who was who went long yesterday softly On Friday Friday. Yeah, that was ridiculous, too I love watching guys T off on 17 all the different I was gonna say the drivers the driver the vantage point from behind The T on 17 and watching those guys hit like high cuts or like rope a draw in like and into Todd's favorite

Golf drug in the Speed slot. Coming off the bunker on the 17. Speed slot. There's so much strategy that goes into that hole, especially depending where the pin is. It's an easy hole. Guys make a ton of birdies there, but there's trouble waiting if you go left. And you got it.

If the pins on the right, you have to play further left or else you kind of get short-sided. And there's just so much. They dig Rick when the water again is here. He did on 17 on 18 or 17 again on Sunday. I will say one of the best shots I saw a week was Chez hit the like his T shot on 17 today was super solid. And then for him to make that put to force a playoff that was mega stones

chess Michael Michael this is his home home you know home event and all that stuff we barely we haven't talked much what's your yell preview of Chera Vay is it Cher Chess it's chess I've chag Jay Michael Michael Chess are Neil I think you had a good 16 a day and I turn the time I said Ches reminds me a little bit of The guy in high school football that like plays like back up center and like works real hard like grinds in the weight room

But it's kind of a rudy type. Yeah a little bit of a rudy type and just but just kind of like you know I think I think I think Rudy plays that extra work. I guess it's a little bit. He's a little, he's a little dumpy, man. Like, I don't know. He's like 5, 10, 2, 20. Once a year, the coach is like, you know what, guys, I'd kill to have 11 chess.

Yeah, exactly. Yes. That's not, I'm kind of like, would you coach? Yeah, okay. This guy's heart-spirer than a rail. Yeah, the guy's been with a tough, not a word. Yeah. At the end of the season.

He was stones, pretty much most of the day. He had a bad shot on 16. I mean, he probably would have won the tournament if he didn't hit a wall. He laid up on 15, too. He did lay up on 15, the whole week. I don't know if he has that firepower. He didn't have that.

How long was that whole 5.7? I think 15 green and the thought of hitting it into like marveled us for quite a while That's just like not like lengthwise just hitting a three wood into yeah, you got trouble on the green Yeah, both Trouble everywhere. Trouble is everywhere. It's an island It is an island. Yeah Woodland we didn't talk much woodland somebody tweeted it it, won the tournament. Tweeted today and said, he's Capca Light. I would say he's the original Capca.

Yeah, he was a favorite in the series. Maybe now I've forgotten Son of Anilio. Neil turns to me and he goes, God, Woodland's huge. I was like, no, he's on like six foot, but he just, he looks huge. It's a commanding presence. And he walks around like he's got just a python. Yeah, some people were saying that like they don't they don't like it.

He's got that strut. Well, he's the starting running back for the NLE football team. You know, it's a tailbacker fullback. He was tailback. Okay. Yeah. He was like, we're gonna have to round back. Yeah. We talked a little bit a little bit. Yeah, we're gonna redo it later this year. But he like, he's like, he's like, he's made the team. People are saying that they don't like him or like, these vanilla and like, bad personnel.

I'm like, that guy is like the nicest guy ever. He gets along with everybody out there. Hey, what's up, man? And I've never even like met him. So like, I asked his agent once, I was like, you know, what, this, do I, should, that guy, no Gary, no Gary's like no, he's just like that with everyone I can't just like people walk by on the street. He's like, yeah, what's going on man?

He's like the nicest guy you can feel like he's he's like kept go without all the like the Like the I'm an athlete stuff, and it's like no like he's actually an athlete It doesn't yeah, he's like yeah, he's supposed to be like probably the best basketball player on I know DJ can dunk But so Gary Woodland Can we get like a one-on-one DJ versus all the content? I don't think it'd be even close Oh, yeah, I think it's Andrew Loops versus Louisville play. Yeah, I think those are your two best players literally played in college right? I know more. Scott Stallings, quite a bit of him this week.

He's like straddling that line between low-key, thick and absolutely yoked. I think he's trending towards the latter. Yeah, he's got to stay off the PD. But he's been talking to some guys about, just a couple players. He was kind of, like, a brick shit house. He's got a guy. I've been following Instagrams, man. All he does is just crossfit all the time.

I think we'll have to stick. All right, what else we missing? Well, I would like to induct a few people into the Opus Day Society. You know, I know this is going to be hard to believe, but you might need to explain this a little bit. So we were out there. And it was Friday.

We were on 16. And I think some DJs come through. And you notice it in person, because you don't really see much on camera. Some guys just just lash themselves. And so any fans out there are the Dan Brown series, DaVinci Code, being one of the books. May remember Opus Day as the brotherhood or the priest that

Influx self wounds Self-flagelating. Yeah as penance for it for things they've done wrong I think there's a few guys on tour that are definitely members of Opus Day I'd say I saw a new inductee bowhawseler coming off with 15 after a, Tron after a three putt, Tron predicted a big week just muttering. He kind of he kind of spit the bit a little bit today, but muttering incoherently to himself and just you just yeah, Rob's on the team. Rob's the captain. Yeah, D Shambha is definitely out there. Baba probably is that if he's

out the chair of the nation, he's definitely like the the Pope of the of the butter nation he's definitely like the the pope of the of the opus day community. Ram is gonna have a all-time meltdown at some point. Yeah, maybe Ram might be the president of the butter nation. He's so Spanish. Um, JT JT might be an opus day. You know what? No, I don't think JT is as much

self-flagulating as like we saw him on 18 T today. And I'm like, oh my God, his body language is awful. I'm like, he must be having a terrible day. He was four or five under. Maybe it's just expectations. Do I have regrets about hitting 59 watch? Six holes in? First person, they should have a shoot in the 70s.

I'm 15. No, I'm sorry. I pushed it into that. We were kind of, we pushed it into that. I told you, no, my hands are clean he needed six hurt the button 12 holes left you're responsible to par five and easy pens on 16 and 17 I think that was that was time to

press it he might be the first guy in history to shoot part to be put on 59 watch shooting the 70s we ran into a milliote grilo atllo at the bird's nest that during the Nellie portion. And he just comes up to me and goes, never do that again. He's like, what?

59 watch after six holes? So yeah, that's a fair call out. But I got one more take to kind of lay in here. I think Nellie might be past his pride. Yeah. Now he was to say it nicely a little pitchy. Yeah. Not lip syncing though. Well, the same he was he was definitely not lip syncing.

Well, the rest of the St. Lunatics there. No, he had one hype man. No, he had one hype man getting the crowd lit. A la NG shoe out there on 16. So I was like, yo, that's my homie up there Um, I was taking notes, but yeah, but then Zed came on very talented guy We could we just you know where is Ed from? Before really in Germany is it Russian German? Yeah, so he's Germany excellent pianist and

It was a metal drummer for a long time respect. Yeah, he's got good musician, but I don't know this about Delta Airlines I did I'm out of the airline so I'm in with Zed I just you know like DJ's camera look out into the crowd and see these people are just going buck wild In a similar vein when he's mixing this song in, and I, you know, it's just, you know, I think it's depending on the state of mind that you're in. If we're talking about nicknames and such, you're talking about the Opus J Society, I think Martin Laird, his new nickname is Kirkland Signature. K-SIG.

Because he's like the Kirkland Signature version of Justin Rose. That's fair. So, that's tough. That's tough, the fair. I'm not even saying that's a bad thing. No, totally. Orlando, guys.

Yeah? Similar swing, similar builds. No, I like that. He's one what, four times on tour? Sounds right. He's. He's had a way to... He's one what four times on tour? Sounds right. He's He's had a way to person that you think you know.

Low key really good career. Where's terrible sunglasses? Actually, it's work. It's yeah, it's colds up for you. I'm quite a few levels. We should mention at this point the refuge. We got a new part of our website. If you guys haven't seen it yet, swing by we created a discussion group slash message board called the refuge big first week a lot going on there we're gonna work on some organizational tactics of it but appreciate everyone that's come by and leave some comments and refugees a little organized it's a bit of an organized we're working on it it's it's

under construction I recommend spending a couple days just reading and then then chime in. You know what? Be very, be very discerning. If you want to start a topic, think twice, think three times. We don't need any more topics. Is everyone benefiting from the start of this topic? That's that's good. Ask yourself. And we probably need some interns to help moderate it. Yeah. If people want us to be moderators, let us know. Anything else we're missing here? Right out of night. Yeah. Time to head to the airport.

And look out for a little hype video coming your way. It's time. To add a little visual to this breakdown. To be watched in conjunction with this, listen to this podcast. So by the way, shout out. I think, I think Woodland, last five years, he's finished between 40, it's then 55th in the world ranking.

This brings him up to 26th in the world ranking. I think it's time for Woodland to kind of... Buck his head. Start Bucking has had a little bit, you know. Show up big on a major Sunday. Hopefully more to come there. To be discussed more in the future I'm willing to throw out Zander Shafley for a likely Ryder Cup spot. It's done. Oh, yeah

Guy moves it you got play to fill all four days lucky guy about that. Yeah All right, let's wrap it that we're gonna JT here is Justin Timberlake is going nuts here on the halftime show We're gonna get to watch a Super Bowl. It's all the ones that won. Hop on a red eye. Yeah, we're gonna we're gonna work on that but on that note DJ Pi won't you play us out and we'll see you guys again soon to play us out Well, that means to play us out We'll do a live crack on I'm gonna get rid of this, I'm gonna take my people home I've touched my heart and I'm waiting so much for anybody

I'll be your shit in the world like that