No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 13: Ashley Mayo

Episode Date: March 12, 2015

Golf Digest Senior Editor Ashley Mayo (and one of Sports Illustrated’s top 100 sports twitter follows) joined me to chat about the golf industry, Golf Digest’s “new age”, social media, Tiger, Rory, Rickie, Spieth, golf courses, and... The post NLU Podcast, Episode 13: Ashley Mayo appeared first on No Laying Up. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yes! That is better than most. That is better than most. Better than most! All right, welcome back everybody to the No-Lang Up Podcast. We have a special guest today for the first time ever on the podcast Senior Editor from Golf Digest and one of sports illustrators top Twitter Top 100 Twitter accounts to follow in sports Ashley Mayo herself Ashley. Welcome. How are you today? Thank you. I'm good. How are you? I'm good. I bet you didn't think I tried to embarrass you right off the bat I know

I'm like blushing. You know when I saw that on sports illustrated. I was and then who the other golfers were on that Good company. It's great company. You know number one golfer in the world Baba Christina Kim and Ashley Mayo. It's great company, you know, number one golfer in the world. Baba, Christina Kim, and Ashley Mayo. It's like crazy. Did they contact you before that happened? Or were you completely surprised when you saw that? I was completely surprised. My friend Charlie Couts is the one who texted me like, oh my god, have you seen SIs,

you know, Twitter 100? And so that was the first time that I had heard. And yeah, it was a cool honor for sure. Well, have you thought out at all from the New York winter? Because everything I'm seeing from my friends in the Northeast, it's been snowing basically every day. I haven't seen snow yet this year. Not to rub it in.

So what's going on in New York? Well, Chris, today it's 60 degrees. Oh, okay. All right. Yeah. So today's going on in New York? Well, Chris, today it's 60 degrees. Oh, okay. All right. Yeah. So today's the very first day that feels like spring. We got a little hint of it yesterday. And yeah, Trump, Fairy Point, which is the new Trump's new course in the Bronx, just allowed tea time bookings today. So, you know, I think it's supposed to open on April 1st. So the golf season is dressed around the corner.

It's very exciting for us, Dorothy Snerz. That's what I was gonna ask next is how much dust have your clubs been collecting so far this year? Wait a minute, Chris, I'm lucky. I get to travel a good bit. Yeah, we see it, all right? I know. I know.

You are quite lucky. You don't have to explain that to us. I'm very lucky. Yeah. And so my clubs right now have just a little bit of dust. They have like a small thin film of dust because I haven't swung a golf club for about a month. But that's going to change actually on Friday.

I'm playing with Shane Bacon and Charlie. And we're playing in Austin because we're going there for South by Southwest. So that'd be a lot of fun. Yeah, yeah. You're playing in Austin. Yeah, Barton Creek. Barton Creek, okay. I don't know that one. I've played it. Falcon Head, I think it's the name of the course I played in Austin. It's really, it's pretty good track, but I don't know much about Austin golf, but yeah, I'm sure your guys' tea times are fully filled out at this point. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

So what's going on with South by Southwest? What is it South by Southwest? You guys are going down there for what's the what's the golf connection going on there? There are four of us who are going to speak on a panel. And so it's myself, Shane Bacon, Charlie Couts and Andrew Kipper. And we're chatting on a panel on Saturday at 9.30 a.m. at South by Southwest just talking about the future of golf. So it'll be a lot of fun. The four of us kind of bring a different background to the panel and the conversation

is going to cover quite a lot of topics. So it'll be good. Yeah, I keep about the future of golf is one of the topics I want to talk to you about, because I keep seeing so much on social media and so many articles about. And I don't know what to believe regarding the numbers in the game. I hear less people are playing the game now,

but I hear rounds are up. Total rounds played are up. And everyone has a theory as to what the future of the game is in the game's doomed. I don't really buy any of that, but as I'm an avigol for myself, you're an avigol for why do you and I, other than you want a golf die just to sell magazines, for me personally, I'm fine if the T-sheets open on Saturday. I don't need a ton of people out there playing.

Yeah, and I've heard that from a lot of people like hey I'm good with three and a half hour rounds like but you know I've heard the same thing and I play a lot of well I play most of my golf at public courses because I'm not a member anywhere and when I go to the Bronx it there six hour rounds easily so I'm just like I don't know where all these drop offs in rounds played are happening. But yeah, when I hear that figure that fewer people are playing the game today than five years ago, they're not accounting for the people, those numbers are accounting for the people who are leaving the game, not necessarily coming into the game.

The fact is that growth has been stagnant over the last five years, but we haven't lost participation. We're not seeing the big boom that happened 15, 10 years ago. But every sport has its ebb and flow and its high time and low time. And golf is a sport that is healthier than it's ever been in many ways, because we have people that are super creative like the top golf so the world and the brine brothers who are putting their own little spin on golf and so all these different kind of ways to to play the game or emerging

and i think golf the definition of golf is more fluid now than it once was yeah and i don't think it hurts the industry when there's people that play maybe four times a year that now plays zero times a year i don't think it hurts the industry when there's people that play maybe four times a year that now play zero times a year. I don't think we're losing the real golfers. There's no one that's been playing golf their whole life that's now saying, you know what, I'm done with the sport, it's too expensive. It's a sport with a huge barrier to entry, it's very frustrating, it's expensive to play.

But I mean, like I said, if my cousin goes from two rounds per year to zero rounds per year and I don't play with him anymore, the game's not suffering that badly. Yeah, exactly right. And so that's why I think the problem golf is facing is not with the avid golfer. You're right, the avid golfer is hooked. Once you hook that person, they are hooked.

Like I said the other day, you're not going to see an avid golfer a weekend. Just get used to that. But what we're trying to be more creative with is hooking people into that game. And like you said, the barrier to entry is so huge that you really have to convince people right off the bat and like overwhelmingly that it's worth it. So things like what the PJ tour is doing

with the outside the ropes experiences and top golf with just like offering a little taste of what golf can be, it's really cool. So I think it's effective. And I think it's kind of, it's interesting. I don't know. I'm sure the boom you mentioned about from 10 to 15 years ago had a lot to do with one golfer in particular

And I don't think but I don't think that particular golfer I tried I tried to avoid saying his name as much as possible. It's he's talking about way too much I don't think his current struggles will would cause any effect on the industry as far as people leaving the game I mean it's gonna affect television ratings, I think. But people aren't gonna stop playing golf just because Tigers, not the guy that it used to be. Right, exactly. I think the people who are really love Tiger, who are golfers are still gonna play golf.

They're not gonna leave because Tiger left. Now, the people we might see leave are the people who really love Tiger who are not golfers who'd never played. Well then they might stop watching golf. So I think that's where the danger comes into play as far as he's concerned. But all we need is for some of these younger Americans to start winning. Because they have the celebrity, Ricky Fowler, his celebrity transcends

anything he's done on the course or like, you know, everything he's done on the course as a whole. His celebrity goes way beyond that. Jordan's speed, as soon as he starts winning, I think his celebrity could be very big. So, you know, there's promise. Yeah, no, I think from a year ago around this time to now, I think the tour is taking a huge leap in that regard. Because we were looking around this time last year. This was right when Tiger started struggling, he got hurt, Phil had no top 10s leading into the Masters,

and we were looking around like, who is going to win the Masters this year? Like, how is this going to happen? There's no one, there's no one peeking. Rory was, his game was still not quite there. And you look at the year we've had since around this time last year and how many times we have, we have Patrick Reed's emergence. Rory has returned to the number one player in the world. We have Dustin Johnson back now. Speed, while he, he only still has the one career win, we have so many storylines going on in golf currently and it's I feel like the game is in as good of a place as possible to handle the post tiger era.

Absolutely, absolutely. And I think golfers know that, like you and I and people who play and watch very closely and soon enough, the general public is going to catch on. I mean, that's just how it goes. Yeah, it would be huge if we could get Tiger and Rory. And just one week in, one week in in a major, these guys going head to head to bring people back in to realize that there's other extremely talented guys out there.

The guys that are more talented than Tiger is currently. I mean, his ball striking and his short game, obviously, are not nearly what it used to be. And Rory has emerged to be the best ball striker in the game. And if you had a chance to see him side by side, I mean, Tiger can still compete with him, I think, if he ever gets his game back. But it will show people that, look, there's guys

that can not do what Tiger did, because I think the field strengths are just too strong these days. No one's going to ever dominate like Tiger did. Rory is going to be pretty close to that kind of dominance compared when you compare to the different competition level of today I think. Didn't we get a little taste of that at the PGA last year? I mean Tiger List finish? Yeah, and ratings proved it.

You know, ratings were and and we were all compelled. I mean everyone I know was glued to their television at the finish and guess what there was no tiger. Like you know we had all of today's current stars right in there in the hunt in a crazy finish. So you know yeah we saw that we got a little taste of it at the PGA and I think there's more of that to come for sure. Yeah, and it's kind of the same way where I'm not that interested in drawing in those fringe golfers that don't really play the game. The casual fan that only pays attention when Tiger is watching, I'm not going to be able to relate to that person anyways. I can't have a golf conversation on that.

I mean, when Tiger gets hurt and I see Skip Bayless and Stephen A Smith talking about it on first take, I'm like, no, like you guys don't have the pedigree to be able to weigh in on this. Like we don't know. You can't only talk about Tiger, okay? Like there's so much more going on. If you want me to take what you have seriously, you have to show some kind of knowledge of what else is going on. It can't just be Tiger all the time. Absolutely. Unfortunately, a lot of times it is, but yeah, no, I absolutely agree. I am a little bit hypocritical because anytime he does something, I'm all over Twitter reacting to it every single, I'm a sucker for it every single time he does next to anything. So, you know, and that's

also, yeah, no, totally. And that's also why, you know, people ask me, do you want Taker to play the Masters? Like, do you want to see him when you're there in Augusta? And I'm just like, honestly, no, I mean, you know, I want him to play there when if he's ready. And I don't think he'll be ready. And if he's not ready and he plays, all he does is bring the circus with him. Yeah, it's hugely enormously distracting because even if you don't want to focus on him, you have to. I mean, you can't not. When they're filming him in the parking lot, getting into his car, there's no thing that can't be false to watch. When

they're filming him an hour before he gets the parking lot, just the parking lot, like the space that he's going to pull into. I mean, that's literally what they did at the PGA Championship. That was just such a joke. I mean, but yeah. A lot of the people in the media will argue, look, he's the guy that moves the needle, like he's the guy that generates the page views, and it's like, it's kind of a cyclical thing in my mind.

Like the more you talk about it, the more people are kind of forced to care about it, and will pay attention, and like, it's, when it's all anyone's talking about, you kind of have to weigh in yourself. If you can't just sit there and ignore it. So it's kind of, it's cyclical, it's dangerous in that way. But again, speaking from a hypocritical standpoint,

because we've been talking about tiger for the last six minutes. I know. I might be the best of 40 here. Well, ultimately, I think a tigerless Masters will not be a bad thing. We've got to start preparing for that, and I think it might be a blessing in disguise, even though a healthy Tiger Masters would be amazing. I'm ready for a Tigerless Masters.

If you could tell me he's going to finish top 25, I would say I definitely want him there. I want, I want the even the possibility of him making a Sunday charge to be there, but I don't want it to be the first, I mean, if he plays the way he played, obviously in Phoenix or in San Diego, he's going to miss the cut. It's going to be all golf centrals talking about,

and all anyone's talking about. When we could have Jordan's beef in the lead after 36 holes, and we're missing out on experiencing that. So I'm totally with you. That's exactly what I say is Tiger just waited out until you're ready to come back. No one wants to see what you what we saw in Phoenix and San Diego.

But for what? For as much as I mock how much people talk about him I honestly don't think the chipping thing has gotten enough attention because the best player of all time he can't hit a golf ball around the green anymore. Like how is that has gotten enough attention. Because the best player of all time, he can't hit a golf ball around the green anymore. Like, how is that physically possible?

I don't understand that. I imagine you, I mean, I imagine you play the game at a very high level. I think you played it Virginia, is that right? I did. Yeah. Okay, imagine like you or one of your teammates or a five handy cap that you know,

just that was sculling and chunking chip shots all over the place like wouldn't that like make your job drop like to me if I saw my friends do that I would I'd be like oh my god this guy's got the e-ips what's going on this is tiger woods this is crazy and it's shots that he's flubbing are really basic like they're really basic and I keep on telling people who are like just beginning or my friends who are thinking about you know playing golf and I'm just like guys tripping is actually not that difficult. And athletes are supposed to make these really hard feats look like such a cinch so he's doing just the opposite

and yeah it's really mind-boggling but I can't pretend that I know what the yips feel like or even exactly what it is and I think maybe he might have it but I don't know. Well if you're able to get a sit down with Tiger he may be able to explain to you what the yips are. Okay I'll get back to you on that Chris. Well I want to talk to you a little bit also about not PGA Tour Golf and about what you guys are doing in Golf Digest. I know that it feels like I've read Golf Digest growing up and I feel like we're entering this kind of social media age.

And I maybe I didn't have a full perspective on it as I was growing up, but I feel like things are changing at Golf Digest in the way you guys cover the game, in the way that kind of social media, I think golf is maybe a little behind other sports as far as it being a true second screen experience during events, but I feel like it's catching on more and more. And I feel like you guys are kind of one of the leaders in adapting to the social media age. So what is it, I guess when did you guys start recognizing this craze and what specific things are you guys doing to adapt to a younger audience?

Yeah. Well, I think that's two very different answers, whether social media is one thing that we've been focusing on. And then the other is attracting a younger audience, which is kind of a more a newer initiative for Bowers. So I started working at golf diet just eight years ago right out of college and when I started Twitter hadn't been a thing, Facebook literally had just opened up to like adults, you know, like real like outside of college. I remember my co-worker at the time, friended me on Facebook and he was the first non-college person to friend me on Facebook and I was just like,

that's weird. Like. Now everyone's on there including your- I know, yeah, grandparents, great grandparents, like, donks. And so, yeah, my job initially was very much writing and editing for a print product for the monthly magazine, and that's it. And then, I think it was the 2008 elections

is when social media really became a thing for brands and for publishing and media companies. And I started kind of picking up on it. And I was just like, well, we can't afford to not be on these platforms. So that's when I started our Twitter account and Facebook page. And just kind of as a pet project on the side,

it was me and Matt Janella, who is now the kind of courses guru at the golf channel. That's job and moral. That's job and moral. That's job the world. Best job in the world. He knows it, dude. The ultimate bachelor. Anyway, he and I went to Jerry Tarty, the editor in chief of golf digest.

And we were like, Jerry, we've got to take these platforms a little more seriously. You know, we're going to start investing a little bit of time in these. And he was like, yeah, I sure do whatever you want. You know, just make sure you get your jobs done and then do whatever you want besides that. Perfect.

So we went off and running, and he and I became kind of like the duo who just kind of started tweeting and Facebooking and sharing the information that we wanted people to read, and we thought people were reading, but we wanted to make sure that it was getting in front of their faces. And in the beginning, as for everyone, social media was not a great source of referral traffic. And now, fast forward, he's gone on to the golf channel and I've hired an awesome person to help me and Cory Bradburn.

Gosh, 30, 40% of referral traffic can come from social mail. And it's just, it's become a huge way, a tremendous way that people consume information and share information. And it's been a lot of fun. You know, it's started off as a pet project. And now it's my main job. And I can't tell you how many awesome people I've met and and then just the number of people we interact with every day is really

cool. So we're on Snapchat now. I didn't realize that we would have so many Snapchat followers. A legacy brand like Golf Digest really connects with the Snapchatters. So that's kind of cool. That's what I was going to ask next is every time, do you get a bump and pay every time there's a new app at least where you have to keep up with all these social media? There's a new app. That's a great idea. I will not snap chat unless I get a bump and pay.

No, the secret, don't tell my boss. No one listens to this podcast anyway. Secret is I would do my job for free. So I don't need the bump in pay. But yeah, so that's kind of what we're doing socially. We're just trying to be share relevant information in a timely way and kind of be someone's best friend who knows everything about golf. That's our goal. Yeah, I think in general the

social media age people have kind of changed the way they receive news and they wait they basically can filter for what they want to see like on their Twitter feed or on their Facebook feed and they are filtering for what headline seems appealing to them. It's not instead of you me going to golf.js.com to figure out what I want to read today, I wait for a tweet that Mike sounds interesting to me that I'm going to read that. I don't go to CNN.com for news. I wait for a headline that I need to read. And I think you can tell which companies are behind on it, in which companies are, you know, in golf, especially, like we're

going down the stretch of a PGA tournament with two holes left and they're tweeting a story about the guy that lost in the... No. ...Hero Indian Open, 12 hours earlier, that is not relevant at all, no one cares about that. So you can tell who has the ear to the street and is ahead of the game versus the ones that are still kind of figuring this social media era out. Yeah, no absolutely. I think the PGA tour does a fabulous job and now with scratch TV. They really get that people maybe might not be tuned into their TV

which is by the way a heavy kind of rectangular box that's like fixated and mounted to their wall in a living room. You know, they're looking at their phones, they're outside and that's how they're consuming information is they're very mobile. And P.J. Tor really kind of gets that I think. And you know, DJ over there has been doing a great job. Yeah. gets that, I think, and DJ over there has been doing a great job. Yeah, and I think it's also, I don't know for me, I've picked up new hobbies and become interested in things because I hear chatter on social media.

If I'm not watching golf and I see 50 people reacting to Rory throwing his club in the water, I feel like I'm missing out. It's like, you need people talking about what you're doing on social media. I think I have a maybe an overblown perception of how many people use Twitter and use social media But to me it feels like a big community and when I see you know people freaking out during the final round of the pga Like if I wasn't in front of a TV at that time. I would have been I'd been panicking. I was like Jitters. Yeah, so it does drive it drives a ton of interest I think and I think The pga tour has come a long way and how they how they react to that I think the European tour does a great job with that too. Yes highlights getting immediate highlights out is such a key getting the gifts out and

And the things that people want to see is it it's changed the game in the last four years alone Yeah, and European tour is a great example of Here's a tour that a lot of people in America don't pay attention to. That's the sad truth because there's so much talent there and so many great players. A lot of people in America do not pay attention to European tour for a plethora of reasons, you know, kind of unknown names, different time zones, you know all those things But European tour and social has made them relevant, you know to a lot of people who use social media and consume information that way I mean they are just killing it. They make you want to tune in so it's it's really cool

Yeah, it would help if they played European tour events on the continent of Europe because They need to rename that tour. I'm sorry they absolutely need to. I think one of their first 20 events of the year this year I looked it up. Only one is in Europe and it's an island off Portugal and Madeira. That's the only one of their first 20 events of the year that's actually in Europe. So when I just moved to Europe about six months ago and everyone told me oh you're gonna become the European tour expert. I'm like, they play PGA tour events closer to me than they do in Europe in the Philippines. It should be like planet earth,

everywhere about America planet earth tour. The world tour that Greg Norman dreamed of is what the European tour currently is. Like I get it, it's cold this time of year in Europe. We don't have the West Coast and the Florida swing and areas of the continent that are Are really warm enough to play a lot of golf, but yeah, they just need a rename That's that's my only beef of the European toward this point. Yeah, it's very true. I've never thought about that

But going back to like how golf digest is now trying to attract that younger audience That's a very different initiative for us and even social I mean social plays into that for sure. Instagrammers and Snapchaters are by far younger than our traditional print reader. But yeah, last year or two years ago we started researching millennial golfers and what they want. We did qualitative and quantitative research. I kind of hate that word now, such a buzzword. But it just means younger people. It does sound like you're speaking from a PowerPoint right now. But yeah. Right, right.

Yeah, sorry about that. I'm not. And so we research them. And really, we unearthed some pretty interesting kind of facts about how they approach the game differently than their older kind of counterparts. You know, younger golfers listen to music while they play much more often than older golfers and we hate wearing jeans. But older golfers, you'll see them in jeans because younger golfers tend to care about

style more and stuff like that. So it was really kind of interesting to read about all that. And then we used what we learned as sort of a kind of paintbrush to kind of paint the new golf digest. And the core of what we are hasn't changed, where it will always be what to play, where to play, how to play. More pages are devoted to instruction in these like redesigned issues than ever before. But the kind of information that surrounds that is far different, you know. Two years ago we would never have written about smoking weed on the golf course. Or being on the golf course, or flying drones and how to listen to music on the golf course, you know, smartphones. We're writing about all that now and even two, two, three

years ago, we never would have. So that's really kind of the real kind of difference for us is not only are we kind of writing about relevant, very relevant, maybe some taboo topics, we're also kind of incorporating this element of surprise with every issue and hence the covers and all that. So it's been fun. Yeah, we've been kind of belling the same thing as far as when we started out I think everything we did kind of followed the same theme and it was kind of repetitive and we still at this Times, you know, we're previewing tournaments. It sounds the same week over week

But you need to learn that you like we were talking about earlier about people kind of picking what they want to read picking different headlines That you need to create different material for different types of people. I mean, me personally, this may be blasphemous to say as a golf fan, but I don't care about equipment. I don't know anything about equipment. I just don't. If I don't read articles about equipment, I know I play clubs that are five, six, ten years old at times.

I should probably have played. I know. That's not what it takes me. I know. That's just how I thought. I don't care about it, so I'm never gonna, I don't really write about equipment ever, but some people love to read that kind of stuff. You need variety, you need to be doing different things

as far as, I mean, like for us, I think we post a preview every week of every tournament, and it gets around the same amount of traffic every week. And then I post something about the two people that Tiger Woods follows on Instagram. And it blows the preview traffic out of the water. Like the stuff that people care about isn't necessarily what we wanna be writing about.

I know, yeah. And I feel like with digital, you know, when we were just a print product, like we kind of guessed what people liked. And But it was always a delayed thing. Like we never really knew instantly what people liked. But now with the web, you're just like, whoa, it blows your mind. What stories do really well? And then which ones fall flat that you might think do amazingly well. And more often than not, which is pretty sad, the pieces that you invest a lot of time and energy in are the ones that fall flat.

The pieces with the most thought, or usually the ones people just gloss right out of, are like, no, but I'm not gonna try to comprehend that. Thanks guys. People like them short, they like pictures, and they like it on juicy topics, that's pretty much what I- What does that mean, Chris Chris for like our future? I wondered that like are we gonna have like I wonder like these kids first I think about this when we see these kids that have these crazy names like the parents that are in this naming these kids these weird trendy names like yeah, I have a president someday named like Braden or like are you gonna have a doctor operating on your name Jaden or something like that How is that gonna work like yeah

These are things I think about these are things I think about but I I'll blame it on Amsterdam So I'm guessing that you if everyone in the US has the same perception of Amsterdam They think it's this crazy crazy place and it's not it's really not. It's really not I speak out every time somebody gives me Trust me. You try to give me a some crap about it. It's pretty have you ever been? Nope, see you're missing out. I know. I did teach you some Dutch words today. Have you been practicing? I will. You should be learning from me. I'm not very good at it.

You should not be good from me anyways. No, I'm not very good. Oh, come on. No, you're a brilliant person. Not it's speaking Dutch. Trust me. If you heard this language, if you heard what three senses this language you'd be like, that's disgusting.

I'm not going to like, I'm not going to try to learn that language. Are you speaking it? Yeah. In Beechet. In Beechet later on. Oh, there you go. That's that's disgusting. I'm not gonna like I'm not gonna try to learn that like I'm speaking Inbate in Beijing. Explain in Beijing later on. Oh, there you go. I hope no Dutch people are listening because that would they would laugh at my accent Every time I try it at work everyone laughs. It's it's pretty it's pretty embarrassing That's funny. So I wanted to ask with I don't know about you. I'm in full masters mode. We're less than a month away I'm not particularly I'm looking forward to any tournaments between now and then. I'm going to be traveling a lot in the next month, not paying attention to a lot of golf, but I want to know what are your, what traditions do you have for the masters? Like, what is, how do you take it in, how do you watch it, do you have parties,

what do you do for the masters? You're one of the biggest golf fans on the planet. We need to know how Ashley Mayo celebrates the masters. Oh, man Well, I used to host a Sunday masters kind of gathering But I've been lucky enough the past two years and this year will be my third year to actually go to the masters. So I know I shouldn't I should have been prepared for this answer. I don't know why I was like this. So I feel like a great master's gathering includes, oh well, I was tweeting about Isaiah's this morning.

I mean, definitely make a Isaiah, which is a lot of the best drink that they serve at Augusta. Pimento cheese sandwiches are kind of a good idea but not really because people won't eat them. They're actually kind of gross. I've had them, I've been doing this, I've had them. They're not that special. People only react to this. It's literally just spread on Pimento cheese. There's nothing special about this cheese. Sorry to verse anyone's bubble that's never been but go for the golf and the golf course. Don't go for the Pimento cheese sandwiches. There's a thousand other things that

are better about the masters than the Pimento cheese sandwich. Absolutely. Absolutely. And everyone's like what? It's like a grilled cheese. It's like a grilled cheese before they grill it. Yeah. It's so... It's like... It's like a machine. The cheese is cold.

Yeah, it's actually hot out. It just, it doesn't really, it doesn't hit the spot. I forced myself to have one, and then I called it. Yeah, you kind of do have to. And there's gonna be some people that are gonna hate on us for this conversation. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. No, but one of but I think the greatest assignment that I've ever had for golf digest was to write about my first master's experience for the following years, master's preview package. And we do that every year. And guys like Tom Brokall have done it. So when they asked me to do it, I was just like, okay, cool. And I got to say, I always knew that the course was going to be

hillier than in person than it looks on TV. And man, that is true. Like, the undulations that you see on that course and those green complexes are amazing. Like, they really can't do it justice. The TV cannot do a justice. The TV cannot do a justice. And I, I, I, I, people told me the same thing.

The first thing people tell you about a justice, you won't believe how hilly it is. And you can describe the 10th hole to people. You can tell them how hilly that hole is. That is a cliff. That hole goes off a cliff. Like that, I'd never, I've never seen a hole go that far downhill.

Like people don't, I don't understand why it doesn't show up better on TV, but that is, that whole is a theater. I mean, that whole little bit of theater to me. Yeah, it's amazing. It's gorgeous stunning. But I kind of, I knew that going in. What? I was just saying the slopes of the greens. I mean, like there's certain spots on number eight if you get behind the green. If you're on the wrong side of a hill, you can't see the green surface, like just those right next to the green and you cannot see it. Yeah, and I don't think you fully appreciate it on TV also that there's like no rough there.

I mean, now there used to be absolutely zero rough. Now there's this like first cut, you know, far away from where we play. You might get your badge taken away. If you, they hear you calling it rough at all. Just like that. It's a custom version of rough, which is still very pristine. But it's amazing to know that the ball can just kind of roll and roll and roll and just go on forever. And you really kind of pick up on that when you're there

in person especially, you know, it's amazing. What got me and what that kind of made me, everything is so close together too. It's an old golf course back, like old golf courses just in general, the holes are all very close together. I always felt like I was missing out on something because you're only a hole away and you hear this huge roar, but it's so close to. I always felt like I was missing out on something, because

you're only a hole away and you hear this huge roar, but it's so close to you, like, whew, what did I just miss? And I was there in the practice round in 2012. I was like, behind hole number three for some reason, which 16 green kind of sits near the third green. It was the day that Martin Kimer skipped it off the pond in the prax world and made a hole in one. So we see everyone stand up and jump and we missed but we missed it. We missed the whole thing. Oh no. Yeah, but what a spot to be. 16. Oh my god. Yeah, it's, I mean, you can't do that place justice. I mean, I'm dying to get back there. My dad gets to go for the first time this year. So it's, oh, amazing.

I know, he won four tickets and he's like, are you going to be, uh, going to be able to make it? And I'm like, I kind of live 5,000 miles away now. So I'm probably not going to be able to make it. I know, I know you're making a face at me right now, but I really can't. Yeah, I think the thing though, that totally took me off guard and that I was overwhelmed by what this smell and Augusta.

And just, I don't know if it's a mix of like pine needles with the flowers, like the azaleas and all that, but the smell, it's like perfume. You just kind of walk around and it's like this garden more than a golf course. Smell and look and everything. But yeah, it was that smell that kind of just blew me away. I was this is amazing. They must pump that smell in with the with the bird sounds that they are accused of pumping into the right. Well who are your what kind of sleepers are you looking at for the masters? I mean we know the favorites are going to be Bubba, Rory, Adam Scott.

You have anyone out there that somebody hasn't thought of yet that you like their chances at Augusta? Maybe a snettaker or a, if you want to find your way to my heart, Brooks Keppka. Yeah. Yeah, no, I think, um, I mean, Speed did so well there last year, and no one's really talking about him entering the year. I don't think he's had a great, like a fabulous start to the season,

but the way he handled himself last year was really amazing. You know, he was first time playing in the Masters, really kind of hung in there the entire front nine on Sunday. Let it go. Well you know, Bama just played really well on the back nine. Although Jordan made some mistakes going down the stretch for sure. But I think for some reason he just feels comfortable out there. It looked like he was really comfortable. So I wouldn't be surprised if he plays really well there again this year. We also see, you know, Jason Day has played really well there in previous years.

And this will be interesting because he's not injured this year. And we haven't really seen that in a long time. So I think he's the guy that I bet on late last year. And I'm sticking to him. he'll he'll play really well at a best time. You know you just jinxed him right for his entry. I don't believe in jinxes. Okay. So I can I can drink all you want. Okay so from one amazing golf course to another I forget who wanted me to ask you this today, but we're dying to know how you got on Pine Valley last year.

Sorry, I didn't get the last part. Sorry, how did you get on Pine Valley last year? We're going to know. Well Chris, I played Pine Valley twice last year. Oh god, here it is, it's just, it's so frivolous, this is just so frivolous. This is so frivolous. First time was with Pine Valley has like this charity day and it's on the Tuesday. Normally women can play only on Sundays, but this was a Tuesday and since it was for charity, they allowed me to play. And it was an awesome event.

Members can host these for sums. And again, all the money went to charity. And that's how I played there, the editor-in-chief of Golf Digest is a member at Pine Valley. So he's the one who kind of hosted us. So that was my first time at PV. Second time was with another member. It was really funny.

Three years ago, I had lunch with his daughter who's really interested in media and breaking in, not golf media, more fashion media, and being that golf digest as part of Conda Nast, which is the fashion capital of media. She was really like puffed about having lunch with me. At the time, and for three years, I had no idea her dad was a member at Pine Valley, but he reached out and just kind of said, you know, the lunch that you had with Lily was so awesome

that I want to kind of say thank you by inviting you out to Pine Valley. So I don't know I guess be a good person. Can you can you forward me her contact info because I would like to take her out to her as well. Well, gladly pick up the tab if that's what that involves. Yeah, yeah. And Pine Valley, I mean, what a dream. The second time was even better, because like the first time you're just so in awe, and you're seeing things that you've never seen before

in terms of just like golf course architecture, that the second time you can really just kind of appreciate it. So that was fun. Everyone says the same things about Pine Valley. I've never heard a bad word about it, but as someone that's never been there before, I've only seen pictures, and I've seen pictures of, I've played Pebble Beach, I've been to Augusta,

and to me, those pop out on camera, a lot more than Pine Valley does. So what is it about Pine Valley? You touched on the architecture, but what is it that makes it so special and that everyone that walks away from there agrees that it's the greatest golf course ever? Yeah, I think the reason why Pebble and all that looks so stunning and even band-in

in photos is you have the coast. Yeah, don't get me started on band-in. No, we can talk about band-in. You do a whole other band-in park. Yeah, that's a lot of fun. But you have the coast and the water and just waves crashing and blue skies and that kind of contrast with the green. It just, it looks amazing. At Pine Valley, Pine Valley is in New Jersey on the border of like Philly and you definitely don't have coast or anything close to that.

But what you have is the actual holes and like the architecture and design of those holes. And so it's kind of even more interesting than Pebble and Bannon in a way because you're just forced to kind of appreciate the golf hole for the golf hole and not for the environment that it's in. And so I think the most kind of special unique thing about Pine Valley is each of the 18 holes are so different. You never feel like you're playing the same hole twice, not even close. And not only are they so different, each of them incorporates a design of an architectural element that you probably have never seen before.

And more often than not, you've never seen them. Like, you know, just the first green sits up on top and like three sides of the first green just drop way down. So, you know, it's just an awesome way to start. Not only that, it's a dog like, right, and, you know, placement is just key. And so every shot is just you have to think about it so much more than than your normal kind of golf course. The Athole has a double green so sometimes you have to go to the left green and other days you have to go to the right green. That left green you know the Athole is a short part four. You're never really going to have more than maybe 80 yards into the green. Hardest approach shot ever. I mean not only is it a small green, it has the

most of your false front you'll ever see and then that false front is guarded by bunkers. So it's just kind of the yeah like I said it's like walking in art. It's like interactive art fine man. Well I don't I don't believe you so I'm gonna have to have you prove it. I'm gonna have to have you get me out there to prove to me that this this course is this nice. I wish I could do that. But if I ever hear of anyone needing a fourth I'll let you know. Yeah, I will get on a plane from Amsterdam and make it to New Jersey. Don't know where you got that. Well, along the same lines, we had a couple people asking some, uh, tweet in some questions for the podcast and Brad Repplin, Jura asked if you could be given a membership to any club

for free, where would it be? Oh my gosh. Easiest answer ever is National Golf Course in America. Wow. I'm expecting that. OK. Yep. For a few reasons. One, the golf course, very much like Pine Valley,

is super unique and fun. And you see kind of elements of design that you won't see anywhere else. Two, the golf course itself and the membership is surprisingly relaxed. It's not stuffy as you might imagine. You know, people are really laid back. The clubhouse overlooks the 18th green, which overlooks water. It's kind of just a beautiful spot to be.

Three, it's local. It's in Long Island. And I'm in Manhattan, so I think that would definitely like, gosh, be a dream country. I could play that course, you know, every day of the year and have a different experience there every single time. So that for me is huge. All right, well, I'm going to tell the gentleman who invited you out to Pine Valley that you didn't choose his club for your number one club. You're going to start some fights.

Yeah, I just moved up one ring on the list of guy, every player he's coming in, invite out to Pine Valley. Please, I would go to Pine Valley in a hurry as well. All right, Sean Seminets, I believe how you pronounce it. He wants to know what your favorite spot, favorite bar, favorite place to go in New York City is. Oh gosh, there's a few options. There's a few options.

Yeah, yeah, always a few options when it comes to places to go in New York City. If you're talking straight alcohol, Pony Bar is just like craft beer king. If you're looking for craft beer, Pony Bar will have it. And it's a really cool environment. It's a lot of fun. But if you're looking for beer and food and sports.

There's a great little spot that a friend and I go to all the time called the Jeffrey and it's in Midtown and it has a backyard area and it's really great and he's also a huge golfer so we go there a lot after our rounds on the weekends and just kind of can I curse? No. Yeah, that's really good. Yes, absolutely. I didn't know in the eloquent way of saying that. You follow

us on Twitter. You know your lesson. So that's those are my favorite bars in the city. But oh and there's speakersies also. Yeah, quite a few great Speakeesies in Manhattan. My favorite happens to be Reigns Law Room. Are you supposed to be talking about these? Aren't these supposed to be secretive? I guess they're supposed to be. In the 1920s, they were, right? But yeah, this place is unmarked.

You go down this flight of stairs, not gonna door. The guy who's fully dressed in like 1920s garb, writes down your phone number, says he'll call you when they're ready. Every single time. Like for a date or? Yeah. That was this job. Then he calls unmarked number in like 20 minutes, so then you walk in and it's like walking back in time. So it's really cool. OK. I think I've been in New York several times, but I know it's probably a touristy spot. But Mixorlies is a place that I always end up

in New York City. Oh my gosh. Mixorlies is awesome. Yeah. Tourist year or not. Mixorlies is amazing. Because I get 50-50 reactions from New Yorkers on that one. Because some people are like, oh, you do.

Everyone goes to Mixorlies. The hipsters usually are the ones that are hating on it. Oh, hipsters hate everything. That's their job. But it's great. I love it, sorry. Yeah, you can only order two kinds of beer, lighter dark, and the waiters and waiters there, they have these mugs

that can carry up to eight mugs in one hand at a time. Just the way that the mugs all fit together. It's supposed to be the oldest bar in America. A lot of people, a lot of bars clean that but that's my favorite spot in New York that I've been to. Yeah, no and for that reason my favorite burger joint in New York is Corner B-Strow because they have so few options to choose from. You know cheeseburger or hamburger. You can only pay in cash. Yeah, yeah, love it. That's what I do miss about America. It's a good old good old hamburger cheeseburger. Yeah, I mean you just made me hungry. I haven't had dinner yet.

But thank you so much for coming on. We're gonna let you go. We almost kept you an hour here. But thanks for taking time out of your day. Of course. For all your interaction and What not and we will definitely do this again sometimes. Sorry it took as long as it did But yeah happy to have you happy to chat. Thank you so much You're you're an awesome follow and it's great to finally chat with you Yeah, or kind of in person kind of in person For anyone still left listening this was was Ashley Mayo from Golf Digest. You can follow her on Twitter at Ashley Mayo. And I'm sure you guys are probably already doing that.

So until next time, thanks again, Ashley. Thank you. Be the right club today. Yes! the right club today. That's better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most. Expect anything different?

Expect anything different?