No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 144: Lucas Glover

Episode Date: May 31, 2018

Lucas Glover joins us to talk about his career as an elite player at Clemson, to winning on the PGA Tour, to becoming a major champion, battling through injury and the yips, and his career... The post NLU Podcast, Episode 144: Lucas Glover appeared first on No Laying Up. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yeah. That's better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most. Expect anything different. All right.

We're going to get the best of the best. We're going to get to our interview with Lucas Glover here very shortly. I would imagine that a group of you are tuning in to hear about Lucas' recent run-in with his wife and Pontavidra. It's been all over the news and it's no secret to anybody in the golf world. I want to set the scene first that Lucas and I had agreed prior to the players to do this interview during Memorial Tournament Week. Obviously, this incident popped up in the meantime and Lucas was kind enough to honor this podcast request and it was kind of still his idea to follow through and go through with

the podcast. So, I did, of course, ask him how he wanted to handle the recent incident in terms of the podcast. And he said that he cannot say anything about it. I'm welcome to ask about it, but his response is going to be that I literally can't say anything about it. So there is no discussion about it on the podcast and that it was Lucas's request. And obviously we are understanding of the position that he's in and that if he could say anything about it,

he would, he's looking forward to being able to speak about it into the near future. But there is no conversation about it on the podcast. I hope that's understandable. And we sincerely appreciate Lucas's willingness to go forward with the podcast during this difficult time for him and his family. So with that in mind, we get right into it.

No formalities, no introduction. We start talking about the Memorial Tournament and of course his career on the PGA tour. So I hope you enjoy it. And I hope you respect Lucas' privacy in this time related to the incident and understand the situation that he's in. And I'm really appreciative of the content

that will be got out of this. And I hope you guys enjoy. Cheers. So growing up here as a kid, I got to attend the Memorial Tournament. I didn't know how special of a tournament it was growing up here as a kid.

What makes the Memorial special to someone like you? It's Jack's place, first and foremost. And the history here, the conditions of the golf course. And just the best field, one of the best fields of the year, and one of the best courses of the year, one of the best weeks of the golf course and just the best field, one of the best fields of the year and one of the best courses of the year, one of the best weeks of the year.

Great for family, great for friends, great for the fans, it's always right here, Memorial, around the Memorial Holiday, either the week of or the week leading to. So the fan supports great, Columbus Golf history is. And just killer week all the way around. So from a hospitality standpoint, I feel like other tournaments have started to catch up to Memorial. How many years have you been coming here? And can you see kind of the influence this event has had

from a hospitality standpoint for the players at other events? Yeah, absolutely. So this is 15 years on tour. First two years I wasn't in. Didn't finish high enough to qualify myself, but since then I haven't missed it. And hospitality-wise as far as you know you drive up, they valet, they take your car, locker room, stop shelf, food in the locker rooms, amazing.

You can eat dinner here, it's one of the, I think when we got three events now you can eat dinner at the clubhouse, which is awesome. And yeah, this was, I think this was a model for a lot of tournaments and they've started catching up, but they got it nailed here for sure. From a golf course standpoint, what here suits your eye, what does this, is this a good course fit for you? Yeah, I like it. I've always liked it. There's a lot of shape, shape holes, shape shots. You know, I kid Mr. Nicholas

when I see him in a lot of them are fades, but you know, being a hooker, giving him a hard time about that. But I thank everybody at Bay Hill for the right and left, but no, it's great. It's got a lot of courses, if that makes sense. It's got trees in play like a hilton head or a colonial. It's got short holes. It's got long holes. It's got reachable par-fives and they're so Nicholas perfect, risk reward, which he's known for for par-fives. And they're the best set of par-fives risk reward I've ever played.

And if you're driving it good, long irons fairway wouldn't it good you can make a ton of birdies on the fives. If you're not the layups are tough the wedge shots are tough etc and typical of a necklace the par-3s are amazingly good slash difficult. The back nine wins first of all are like perfect replicas of 12 and 16 of Augusta almost perfect right but just more difficult Right, I agree green still doesn't hold balls. No as well as the other holes No, I won't hold a javelin. We like to say All right, this question. I've always wanted to ask you this because it drives me absolutely insane

How do you hit a golf club of golf ball without wearing a glove? I don't understand it. Yeah My hands don't sweat for whatever reason. It's got to be crazy humid to just get a little bit, but I didn't grow up using one. My first instructor or my first real instructor as a kid was Dick Harman. And I remember the first or second time I went to Houston to visit with him, my grandfather went with me.

And I hit so many balls, my hands started to so they old man tough love went inside cut the fingers out of a glove and said well at least your palms won't hurt and that was the last time I wore a glove I was 12. You have not one one that have not worn one since. Even when it rains you don't need a glove. Nothing nothing so if I get like a bead of sweat on my hands I put my rain gloves on because I can't I maybe my you're you must have like really good, just strong grip on the club. Yeah, I may grab it a little too tight. But no, joke, my buddies like to play on me is if they want to laugh, they give me a glove and say, here hit me a seven iron.

I'm a solid 15-handie guy. Really? It affects you that much? Oh, yeah, I got no idea where the club head is. No idea. I can't feel the club head. I don't know where it is. And I see there are dead block or rope with a glove. It affects you that much. Oh yeah, I got no idea where the club head is. No I can't can't feel the club head. I don't know where it is and I see their dead block or rope with a seminar. The irony of the US Open that you won being like the most rain soaked event ever without the glove just again just blows my mind. I can't physically we'll get we're gonna get to the US Open but sure you touched on it there with with DeCarmen but what was your what was your upbringing like in golf?

How did you get into golf and what was your young golf career like? Yeah, grandfather was an athlete baseball football growing up, took up golf when he got into business after his sports career was over. I'm just fell in love with it and ended up playing a lot of, I guess they'd call it customer golf for entertainment and turn himself into a pretty good player. And then my mother, my mom has five brothers. And when I was growing up, I think their combined handicap was around 10. into a pretty good player. And then my mother, my mom has five brothers. And when I was growing up, I think their combined

handicap was around 10. So a lot of good holiday golf with the fam. And so did the whole family thing, started playing tournaments around 7 or 8 and full-fledged junior schedule at 10. And Jay Haas, who lived in my hometown hometown and was a member of the course we were members at. My grandfather went to Jay and said he's passing me, I can't keep up. I don't know what to tell him anymore. And Jay said, well, we got, you know, right now

you got two options if you want to go take him to see the best and see if he can improve and maybe take this thing. Where you all think you can, you can go see David Ledbetter or Dick Horne. And our plan was to see both. And we saw Dick first and no offense to David, but I didn't feel and my grandfather didn't feel at that time. We needed to go see David. It was just a really, really good fit with Dick. And the way he was with me.

And so it worked with him all through high school, all through college until the day. In 2006, but high school's typical high school golf and summer schedule, a couple tournaments here and there and then college at Clemson. And what was the course you grew up playing, sorry? Thornbleite, where you just were. My grandmother probably watched you head a few shots

on 17 there. She's to the left of 17t. Still there. And then College of Clemson and had a solid career there and decided, I don't know, about halfway through that, I wanted to really go full force and try to get out here. Yeah, well, you're breezing through it rather quickly. So, I know that's all good.

High school golf, you were at U1 states as a freshman and sophomore. When did you know that you were like a special talent at golf? And not just better than your closest peers, but you had a special talent? It was interesting. Early on, I was a big kid, so I hit it further than everybody from you know eight years old to 12 or 13 and because of that I seem to do very well because you know obviously you hit it further if shoulder clubs end and it's easier. Well as everybody caught up to me in size and then therefore in the length it became harder for me and the complacency might have caught up a

little bit early in high school. Some guys I was beating a lot started beating me and that really opened my eyes. All right, we got to change the way we work at this. And my grandfather and my parents were very instrumental in that. And they said, look, if you want to do this, we're not pushing you, we're not telling you, you have to do things. But there needs to be a little more dedication because we spend a lot of money traveling in this and that.

And if you want to do this, let's get what we can out of it. And that resonated, but only when some guys I was used to beating started beating me a good bit and more than I was beating them. So that turned it around. So probably sophomore junior year of high school, I knew I wanted to play in college and then I knew, I knew I kind of wanted to do it, but I didn't really know if it was realistic yet. I thought I needed to see what happened in college.

And when you went there, did you think you would be an elite player there? Did you think you'd fit in with the rest of the team? Or where did you think you racked up at that point? I knew I'd fit in with the guys because I'd been over there fair amount. I grew up only 40 minutes from Clemson and spent a lot of time there going to football games and sporting events and a lot of family history there. So I visited there a lot and knew some of the guys that were a little older than me when I was a junior.

So I knew we'd get along. But I didn't know how to, or I didn't know if it would train like, I didn't know if I expected it to. But in the back of my mind, I was like, you know, they're not giving me a spot and starting five. I still got to go earn it. And you got the defendant to a individual champion, Charles Warren, who was there, his senior year,

my freshman year, two other seniors that had played almost every event, and another freshman coming in with me. And Jonathan Bird was going to be a sophomore. So there was no guarantees. And it turned out good, but all those guys made me better. The competition made me better. The silly gambling games that practice made me better and all that stuff.

But we were pretty well loaded for four years. And the competing for Nash Jammiships as a team and individually and all that stuff was pretty good prep. And I kind of saw it. I thought I had a pretty good chance, but it was still motivating. My first couple of years weren't great. I played okay, but my last two years were pretty good.

And I felt like if I kept on the right track, I could get out here and maybe make some noise. So you went three events while you were at Clemson. You won the South Carolina AM three times and then played on the 2001 Walker Cup team. So you talked a bit about seeing where your game racked up as you moved up the ladder. What was the Walker Cup like? Was that another chance to play against people from another country and see where you stood? Absolutely.

That was a pretty stacked Walker Cup when it comes to pros that ended up playing at the elite level. We got worked. That was special. I played on the Palmer Cup in college. That was so special. That was the first opportunity I had to carry the red, white, and blue on my back. That was really cool. I think that in the Walker Cup formed my affinity for team golf and my respect

for it and want to. You know, still a huge goal to play on a Wager Cup. But yeah, Wager Cup with the team we had, the team we had, it was going to be a test. It was going to be a good barometer for where I stood. Because a few of their guys played over here, Luke Donald. Gosh, I'm blanking. Graham McDram. Nick Dordey, I knew I knew of him.

He didn't go to school over here, but I knew of him. And yeah, they were loaded. But as a team, didn't put up a very good fight, but I felt like I played pretty well. I do remember being 300 through four against Luke individual and being, and being three down. So. What?

Yeah. I was thinking he buried, or two down. I'm sorry. He buried three holes and made an ego and, all right. Cool, man. So. Yeah, exactly. Who were, so around this time, you're about to start your transition to professional golf.

Who were the guys you looked up to the most on the PGA tour? Who, if you would have walked into the same room as you have been star struck by? Um, obviously Tiger. It's 2001, right? Yeah, 2001, 2002. He's, he's, he's tip top, right? But, I mean, he was, he was, he had already taken the world bus storm but he was winning everything and winning everything bus a lot. And you know he had the best swing in the world, maybe

in history right around then. And did for a long time. I'm never going to say anything about Tiger's Golf Swing. I'm still in all of it and the things he can do. That being said, I was always very impressed and have a great relationship still with J. House, hometown. I grew up in the same town he lived in and raised his family in. And I looked up to J, since I was a kid, and doing that and then getting advice from him, getting some push from him, getting some tips from him, and even still a walk in a room and it's still like, man, there's Jack. How cool. But Tiger was the one at the time everybody was star struck and bright-eyed by him and we all should have been. But it was still a few years before I'd see you in person. So if you could go back to Lucas Clever in 2001, 2002,

and give that person any advice, what would it be? What's something that you were just completely ignorant to about life on PGA Tour or anything like that? It's hard. It's not wake up real out of bed, go to the tee. And I talk about this a lot with juniors or Q&As or different things we do, is it's the Monday Tuesday,

Wednesday grind to get ready for Thursday was so different than I expected. Traveling, playing nationwide tour, then, and then transitioning to out here, and then transitioning to out here and then transitioning to traveling with a family and just the Monday Tuesday grind of tour life no matter what tour it is was a surprise to me. I knew it wasn't easy, I knew traveling was not easy on the body, easy on the game,

that's not, I didn't realize. And maybe to leave in my late 20s how tough it was. Especially back-to-back weeks. Yeah, yeah, yeah, three in a row. Yeah, two, three, four weeks in a row, or you're not playing well, and you're trying to play your way out of it, and you feel like every day you need to be grinding

when it might be better to take a day off, and then learning which ones better for you or not, or et cetera, et cetera. But, and all that, a personal thing too. You got to know your body, know what you need, know what you don't. But, I was, if I, you know, your original question, go back. What would you tell yourself? You got to be diligent with your time early in the week

and make travel day, travel day. Don't try to cram too much in. All right, I got to get there at noon on Monday, so I can practice all day. And let's make Monday a travel day and just make building to cram too much in. All right, I gotta get there at noon on Monday, so I can practice all day. Let's make Monday a travel day, and just make building a day off every week. A lot of times early in my career, I was trying to bust out of town Sunday,

get in at midnight to the next town, and get out there Monday at 9 a.m. and work, and then play Tuesday, and then practice all day Wednesday, come Thursday, I was kinda tired. Yeah, man. But I think that's also being excited about being new on tour and excited about competing and excited about trying to beat the guys

you looked up to all your life. But that is a trap I think. And I see it now with some guys that I play some practice rounds with that are just new out here and they're so excited to go to the next place the next week and I say, hey man, just let's just kind of dig as well. Yeah, well, you know, let's, let's, let's kind of walk in instead of running in this weekend. But even even established professionals and you're probably still experiencing it that I mean, Rory talked about getting to tournaments earlier this year and having kind of a new schedule when he gets to tournaments and preparation wise. So people are always kind of tinkering with that schedule even after you've established, quote unquote,

established yourself, there's different routines that you try. And I think Phil has tried every different way of preparing for the US open and for the masters, and everyone's got their own different cycles. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And a lot of it depends. Are you in the program every week?

So do I get in Tuesday night at an event? I've played the last 10 years or do I get in Monday night? Play non Play nine holes Tuesday and then practice what? And again, it's a personal thing. And as you are more established, chances are you're you're you're having a family or you got family obligations. So do I do a slot home for a Monday, Tuesday morning and then get back out and the next week may be different. So it's all it's all reading your body knowing what you need especially I'm I'm 38, 15th season out of here and I'm still learning and doing things and having to talk myself into a day off or talk myself into a grind or you just got to listen to your body and

listen to your mind, to your rest of your brain out or to, where does that sound? No, it makes a lot of sense. A quick update from our friends at Calaway as they continue to bring the heat with the new black smoke rogue pro irons. These murdered outpro's are some of the coolest irons I've ever seen. The iron heads feature a sleek black PVD finish with a custom black medallion and they come stock with a limited edition blacked out true temper XP 105 shaft, and a Black Grip. Rogue is the number one selling iron in the U.S. this year thanks to the combination of

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first year but you broke out in 2003 you won on the nationwide tour or earned your card. What was what did that nationwide tour kind of teach you about professional golf? I'd imagine one of the first things is it's not all glitz and glamour. That's exactly right. That's exactly right. Yeah I did the many tour stuff kind of end 0 one and 02, played, I don't know, four or five different tours all around 02. But I'm Monday to Nuff into some nationwide events

and had enough top 25s. And I ended up with probably a half of a schedule that year, and I'm finished high enough to retain or to get status the next year. Miss McCut by a shot in 02. And I say it, I've said it a hundred times that's the best thing that happened to me as a pro was not getting my card in 02 because I was not ready. I lipped out a chip on nine at Stadium Course in PGA West to get my card and was completely devastated, but two, three, four years later,

15 years later now, it's the best thing that happened to me. I was not ready to be out here and to your point. That showed me that all right, now I'm on a tour for the whole year. I can pick my schedule and start learning how to play golf, weekend and week out. Different courses, different.

Grass. Different cities, different grass. And adapting to adversity, you know, adapting to not having your game, but not to cut when you need it, you're trying to get your card. So, our 150 other guys out there, but that year, O3, having that schedule planned and laid out and just learning to her life with a schedule with a plan was huge and I think at one kind of three quarters of the way through the year to ice down my card after playing pretty solid for the year.

That's what almost everyone I talked to about their established tour pros talk about their time on Nationwide Tour, web.com tour whatever is, they almost all kind of say that same thing. And like that taught me how to be a professional. Absolutely. Absolutely. If you go straight out to the PGA tour, you're just not ready to handle that grind. So, yeah. It's remarkable what a lot of the young kids that are out here winning are doing without

experiencing that. Yeah. It shows you how good that young crop really is. And that's what that, you know, you go out into web events and you see such a eclectic mix of journeyman and young guys and guys in their thirties that are still trying to make it And it just gives you that much more appreciation for the guys are able to retain their card Year in and you're out. So your rookie season pj tour was 2004 you finished outside the top 125 you regained your card at Q school But what do you remember most about that year? Was there still kind of that shock factor

when you got out there for the first time? Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I'd played in a couple of events on some sponsor exemptions because of some things we talked about earlier, Walker Cup and pretty decent college career and qualified for the US Open in 02 at Beth Page. That was my first major. So when I got my full tour card in 04, there was still a little bit, oh

man I'm on tour full time, I gotta do this, this, and this. But there was also a little sense of comfort because I'd played in a handful of events, leading up to that season, but I remember my first full event was Sony and Hawaii and I played on Sunday early. I barely made the cut. I played Sunday early with Lauren Roberts. And Lauren Roberts hit about six greens and shot a couple under. I think I hit 15 or 16 and shot a couple over. I remember walking back over to the hotel, thinking, man, I probably should go chip and put a little because that guy's been out here a really long time and it didn't look like he should have beat me today.

But one of those learning experiences from those established guys, you learned, you know, he didn't have it. He just grounded out a 67 or 8, whatever it was, hit in six greens, getting up and down, and might have hit six fairways, whatever it was. But that season was great. It was again a lot of learning and Miss McCard went back to Q-school. Birdie 3 to the last four to get my card back, even though I had a little security, that 126 to 150. You always want that full exempt status for scheduling. But, and then that was kind of a blessing also in disguise that you get out there.

It's not guarantee. You got to work, you got to grind. So have you always been known as a ball striker, like when you came out on tour, you were a ball striker, did you, was it, when you came out, that first year, I know you just Was it when you came out that first year I know you just referenced that story but did you know you're putting and shipping needed to improve drastically or did you have any kind of grasp as to where your

strengths were and where your weaknesses were. Yeah always always been a good a good ball striker always been a good ball hitter and always you know was comfortable curving the ball and trying to shape it. Predominantly a hooker, but don't mind cutting it if I have to. But yeah, that was kind of bread and butter. That's always in my back pocket, or especially then. But, you know, short game day in and day out out here, it's the most important thing. And I can't tell people that enough.

And it's hard to understand when all they show is us hitting drivers and tapping in for birdie on par-fives. You know, I feel like that's all we see anymore. But I didn't know at the time that it needed that much work because it was solid, but it wasn't great. But days like that and then seeing how two or players that had been out here a long time, practiced and prepared their short games

for the week at different places and different different shots. They may need a different courses was eye opening, a good good experience and a good learning learning experience. It's interesting here you say that the short game being the most important because the statistics have come out in recent years. I'm not sure how familiar we're with Mark Brody and the Stroke Schaien analysis. I was just blown away at how much emphasis he thinks there is on T-Degrean and how that makes up essentially 70% of the game, whereas the remaining 30%

is putting, have you looked into the statistic analysis or done any research regarding that? Is that helped you at all with any parts of your game? I do look at it to see, weekly, where did I stack up? My instructor, Tony Rogero sends me a little info packet every Sunday night after a tournament. Here's where he's stacked up against the top 10, he's where he's stacked up against the winner. And then obviously the tour stats are easy, you can just go in there and look. But it is a great thing, great barometer to see, all right, where did I stack up against everybody that played better than me,

or what did I do well or not so well that week according to the whole field instead of just the top ten or the winner. And frankly for me it's usually in that putting short game area. So I didn't know about the 70% that the TD green so that that meant good for me. Well, that's the biggest takeaway I had from that was I kept blaming myself for missing like 10 foot par putts. And I said, if I could just putt, I would be such a good player.

And then you look at the end of the day, I'm like, oh, I hit eight greens today. Like I shouldn't probably shoot under bar. And it was so much emphasis gets put on whether or not you hit the ball into the hole, but you don't factor in the variance of the likelihood that you'd actually make that put. Right.

So what blew me away and this has been a few years now but I was very irritated at myself about like six to eight foot puts. I was pretty good from short doing pretty good 10 to 20 feet in these little six eight footers. And somebody I think was another player. I can't remember who he said, you know what? Don't be so hard on yourself. Two are average from there's like 61% or something. So how many are you making? I was like, you know, I feel like I make two out of three and they go, that's better than two are average

bro. I'm like, oh, you never know what to think about it because you think you should make every six foot or eight footer. And then you think about it, you know, maybe I should lighten up on that a little bit. So to your point, you know, it'll be so hard on yourself about 10 footers. You're already going to get the podcast bump this week, so now that I'm giving you, giving you tips here, you're giving me all this stuff. No, but I, the more I look at it, the more, and that's why I was especially interested to talk to you, that I think so much of this game is about getting the ball close to the hole in two shots, and on par three's in one shot. And that so much gets decided. And now with my own personal game, I'm trying to miss on

fat side of greens much more than get after pins because the amount of shots I cost myself by missing in the bunkers and shortsighted myself is way, I miss, I lose more shots than I do making birdies at those pins. It's a different game for you guys, obviously. Well, think about it this way. When your short games, you know, really good, let's take Jordan's, clicking on all cylinders. Short-siding doesn't scare him. Short-siding doesn't scare Phil. Short-siding doesn't scare Tiger. Because, all right, I'm gonna pick my spots,

but if I do pick a spot and miss on the short side of my short game's good enough right now Or I'm making all my my puts if I hit a decent to average chip or bunker shot or whatever So that frees up your mind a little too um And I from my own experience. I feel that way when when I feel like my short game and the putters good and that's just that confidence I have and You know again short game good short game in your back pocket billy out of some trouble and so anyway that's here and over there yes. All right so 2005 your first victory in tour you win at Disney what do you remember most about your first PGA Tour win? Crazy bunker shot like 38 yards or something 38 35 35 yards. And I remember obviously that coming from kind of nowhere,

I shot 31 or two on the back, but I remember waiting on a playoff. Like I remember standing over there on the range, Magnolia Course at Disney, and I think Tom Pernese was the only one that could time me and coming up 18 and I just remember standing there And I think sluggard was there and he's just you know He's like cool and calm and I'm you know, I could painting. Yeah, I'm full full panic

What do I do if he makes that 10 footer 12 footer whatever Tom had and so I got to go back to 18 All right, give me the driver. I got to hit some kind of draw out there and then it's probably like an eight iron I'm you know, you know know I didn't even think about things moving quickly. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And but you know I remember obviously remember the bunker shot and I remember my little goofy reaction like did that actually happen and then I'd really just remember standing over there on the range in full panic like oh my if he makes that what do we do now? Oh yeah we got to go play and again it, it was just, you said it perfectly.

Things were moving quick. Things were moving fast. And he was playing really, really slow at felt like. But to me, things were moving fast. So in then 2006, and I don't remember exactly what kind of where you stood, but you had nine top 10s. And you had, it seemed like you had one of your better years on tour.

Were you in the running for a captain's pick for the rider cup at that point? Do you remember how close you were? I was. Six and eight. Definitely. Trying to remember. I get the years confused who was captain win, but six was eight was singer.

Yeah. Six was Tom Lehman, I think. Yeah. Definitely was in the running there. Played Brexon out of the Tom at TPC and he was kind ofenan I think. Yeah definitely was in the running there. Played Brexon with Tom at TPC and he was kind of feeling me out and believe he ended up picking Scott Replank and Stewart still to this day to him a better friends and we're two of my better friends on the tour then. So no

hard feelings there but nine top tens and a win the year before. And I felt like I deserved it. I think they picked a lot earlier then. And if I remember right, they picked Monday or Tuesday of Akron and then a finished fourth in Akron that week. And you finished type 8 of the Torch championship, too. Right. So my memory's not as bad as I think. But I did feel deserving then, but I also understood

Tom's reasoning. I got a bunch of rookies and I need some veterans. I said, hey, man, I get it. And he told me that new he was picked. And I said, you know what, those are my buddies good for them. And, you know, I was happy for them. Sad for myself, but, you know, life goes on. And I still played pretty good golf that year.

Next year, you get a captain's pick from Jack Nicholas for the president's cup. The first team golf you mentioned how much you enjoyed it. I mean, what was that? I had to feel like quite the honor. Yeah, that was amazing. That was, that was amazing. And I had a pretty good feeling that it was going to happen. I'd seen, I'd seen slew a bunch, Jeff Sloom, and news assistant captain, and Jeff did a great job

of sticking around everybody and staying in touch. I remember walking through the airport the night they were picking and phone rang. I don't even know if I knew what Colorado he was, but I knew I didn't have a programed in my phone, and I said, well, that's an odd number. Maybe I should answer this one all night like this this and it was Mr. Nicholas and I knew right then when he said, look, it's Jack Nicholas. I couldn't say it just then, or making any emotion about it, but I was just, I was elated and relieved too because it was something I'd focused on and grounded about and kind of

stayed up a little at night thinking about it. I wanted it. I wanted to have that feeling from a one Walker cup with the red, white and blue on your back. That's a pretty good feeling. Yeah. And so what was let presence cup experience rise? You mentioned for playing in sync being some of your buddies. You paired with them for the first three rounds and you put with Charles Howell as well. What do you remember most about the president's cup? Just the experience. It was it was some of my first outside of the ropes experiences with some guys. Tiger Phil. I played with both of

them before. I played with Tiger in Flint that year when he won his 50th tour event on Sunday. That was really cool. But my first real experience was a lot of the top echelon guys off the golf course. And that was really cool for me being pretty young, seeing how they operate, seeing what they do, seeing what they don't do, seeing how they react in the team room. Because at the time, I wanted to be on those teams every year, and at some point, like now being 38,

I wanted to have been one of those mainstays. It didn't turn out that way, but that's okay, that's golf. But I wanted to see if I did continue to have success and how they treated people and how they treated everybody in those team events. And it was amazing, it was an amazing experience and makes you want to get back on those teams because it's truly fun. It's a lot of fun. That's what everyone talks about. Yeah, it was an amazing experience and makes you want to get back on those teams because it's truly fun. Yeah. It's a lot of fun. That's what everyone talks about.

Yeah, it's so much fun. It's so much fun. Did you feel like you belonged in that room or did you feel like you're walking on X-Hels being a rookie around some of those guys? They, I did it first, but they made sure that I didn't feel that way long, all of them. And I had a pretty good relationship with Slu, leading in because of Jay Davis, a lot of the older guys that Slu was friends with. So he kind of grabbed me before and he was like, man, we picked you because you deserve it.

So let's go plug off. That's all it is now. And that was great. And I needed to hear that. And I needed to feel that acceptance to get to Thursday. You know, you don't wanna feel like you're walking on eggshells, but everybody was accepting and fun. I mean, it was just fun, riding the bus,

just in the team room, eating, every meal was team dinner. It was awesome, it was cool. Cool. Am I reading this writer, do I research this right, that you shut it down shortly after the Presence Cup in 07 for a while? Did you take a break? Oh, wait.

Oh, wait. Okay, I had a year wrong. So, well, your 08 season was a bit of a setback. Was there anything in particular you were struggling with in that year? I don't think I was just burned out. Yeah. It was a little burned out. I played a ton of golf, and unfortunately I played a ton of good golf into five,

into 05, 2006, 2007, that push to make the President's Cup. Make the President's cup after a whale of a year come out in O8 with real high expectations. And I didn't meet them and I kept trying to meet them and trying to get better and trying to win and trying to win again and did it and did it and pressing. But yeah, perfect word, pressing. And I finished FedEx cup and I went, that's enough. I was burnt out, tired, and just shut it down.

I think so we ended then, playing to August 1st, to September, I think I touched a club with Thanksgiving, which was a long time at that time for me, you know, six, seven weeks off. Literally put them in a closet and didn't want to see him. And the best thing that probably I could have done. That's going to say. Yeah, it turned out all right.

Hard to argue with what happened next. Well, looking back on it, you know, if it went the other way, I'd have been the dumbest guy in the world. But some, you know, that's just the way things work in life, I guess. So you had a T3 at the Buick to kick off the season. You tied for second to quail hollow. And then you go to the Beth Page, your US Open. That week comes around.

Did anything feel different about that week going into it? Yes. Do you have my numbers there from that year? I don't. I can't. I either missed the cut here at Memorial or played so bad that I played really early Sunday. I remember being here on Sunday afternoon on the driving range. I didn't go over and play practice on the lakes or Brookside because I played them before in qualifiers. I was playing so bad. I just wanted to hit ball and I found a little something on the range here. Oddly enough, we're here having this doing this podcast.

And it was pretty simple. I was just trying to take the club back a little bit lower, going back and it just got my turn a little fuller and I started hitting it, you know, solid again and just smashing it. And I shot 63 the next morning at the lakes. And then all I had to do was hang on. It broke side of the thing. I got one under your qualifier pretty easily.

Had an off week, took the next week off Memphis to get ready. And luckily I'd qualified for O2 Beth's page. So I knew the golf course, knew what to expect, knew what to work on in that week off at home. And I remember my grandfather went with me to practice like he did every day. And I remember I'd always practice in the morning, we'd have lunch and go play a few holes. And we're on the golf course playing. And I did two drivers on practice in the morning, we'd have lunch and go play a few holes. And we're on the golf course playing. And I'd hit two drivers on every hole, and I'd hit two orange outs.

And I'd play basically play two balls. And we were driving back home and he said, looks like you're swinging pretty good. You're going to have a good week. I said, well, why are you saying that now? He goes, well, I was just thinking about those drivers you hit. He goes, every one of them, I think I could have,

as he would say, an old Southern term. I think I could have thrown a blanket over both of them. And I started thinking about it and I was like, I'm right. I hadn't driven it this good in a while. So I had really good feelings leading them to both Pays and O'Neill and about my ball striking and still at the time and it's still true today. And I think it's just my makeup. It's all about how the putter goes. So I figured, all right, make some pots and we'll play well because I'm striping it. And I got there in practice prepared, practice prepared, the swing thought was still working. Ball still drawing.

It's like, all right, here we go. Didn't get to play Thursday. Yeah. So it was just like, all right. Let's kill the momentum. Did all the practice rounds go as normal? I don't remember that. Yeah. Everything was just like, all right. Let's go to my mental. Did all the practice rounds go as normal? I don't remember that. Yeah, everything was pretty normal.

I think we got some weather. Maybe Wednesday evening or something. But I was already, I was long gone by then. I'm usually at nine hole early Wednesday in the majors and done. But yeah, I went out there Thursday for afternoon time and I really shot. Didn't even go to the range. And it was just, it was just bizarre week from then on.

Well, you were there in 02. That was the first US Open Health that got a public course in New York. And I don't know how long. And the crowds, I just remember being absolutely insane. The anticipation for that event was huge. What did you were anticipating that same kind of crazy atmosphere going into the week?

Yeah, yeah, I mean, it was nuts. You know, remember, unfortunately, they were on Sergio for the waggle. Yeah. Seeing an happy birthday to feel, I guess, and all that stuff mean it was nuts, you know, remember unfortunately they were on Sergio for the waggle and Singing happy birthday to feel I guess and all that stuff it was nuts, but had that crazy weather there for out of sight or D Remember the cut was 10 over because I shot 11 and I was like 10 over. That was the cut. Oh my god I mean it's hard to even fathom that but But again, it was it was it was good to go back there. I'd obviously played in three or four other US opens leading up, but no one want to work on, no one want to expect with the fans,

no one where to go, no one where the parking lot is all that stuff can be tough at a US open if you've never been to the venue. It's overwhelming. Yeah, overwhelming and the stands are bigger and the crowds are bigger and they obviously the difficulty of the test. But having been there before was definitely a benefit from knowing what to expect. So you go off your first round on Friday, how many holes did you play Friday? Six. Six? Six.

I remember Saturday playing 30 or 31 holes. I played five or six the first day and doubled the first hole. Which was, yeah. And I've said this a lot, talking about the best thing for me right then, and looking back on it, after walk over the road, back a couple hundred yards to talk to myself and say, you know what, big deal. Everybody's gonna have some screw ups just to the US open, let's just refocus and you know, make some pars, make birdies when we can. Everybody's struggling out here, it's sloppy,

it's tough, it's the US open. If I gotta go 20 yards to the tee and see might have been a different story on the US Open. If I got to go 20 yards to the tee and see, it might have been a different story on the next hole. But as it was, that might have been a break, maybe not. Maybe it was just something I'm looking for, but I think it was beneficial to have a long walk. Once you were playing, I don't really remember, was it raining while you were playing? Not often. Not often. It was, that we rained so hard that the play was canceled for everybody. Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, I think some people played a few holes Thursday, you know, eight or nine, ten holes maybe, and then it just came.

And then, you know, we never played the ball up. That coulda was to the main and staff and maybe the USGA being stubborn, but I don't remember a mud ball, oddly enough. But it was, it was a day loose Thursday, I think a little Friday morning, and then it seemed like it just would decide to rain overnight every night. And then, but they maintain, I don't know how they did it, the course was still pretty perfect. But unlike any other US Open, unless it was like that, where the ball went, it stayed. Right. So you hit a good shot or you didn't, or wouldn't any bouncing through a green or bouncing through the rough on a dog leg or any of that. If you hit it there, it's pretty much going to be a foot or two feet from where the ball went. And then in that third round, you hit a rough patch as well. You

know, I think I've got bogey double bogey stretches. That right. But before that, I mean, I guess we're the soft conditions Did it just kind of give you a green light to attack ends as what did you see that as an advantage for yourself? Yeah, well going back to to really having confidence in my golf swing and and what what what my golf ball is doing I think you know I remember Tiger talking about it years ago He felt like he had his hand on his golf ball You know when he was really playing like he was and I had that feeling Leading into that week and I still had that feeling that week that I knew which window it was gonna come out of and I knew

I knew how to make it turn over 10 yards and I knew how to make it not turn over 10 yards if it was a right bend so And that it was just working and But again that rough patchy reference, it's still one of those things, like, all right, everybody's gonna have that here. It's hard, you get in this rough, it's wet, it's gangly, it's just hard.

And you almost give yourself a pass at a US Open for having a bad hole or two bad holes or a little bad patchy golf, because it's just difficult. But again, if I hadn't had that experience there before, if I hadn't had the experience a couple years before, wouldn't have known that. But just, yeah, if you know where it's going and you know it's staying, or I'm sorry, if you know, if you know where the ball lands is where it's going to stay, you do have dream light more often. There's still some spots there you can't really go out or I didn't feel I could go out.

But if I was trying to hit it 20 feet left with a hole in the fat side like you were telling what you're doing, I did it. And that's you us open golf too and major golf. You were one back of Ricky Barnes, you pair with him for the final round. Did you play your entire final round on that Monday or did it start on Sunday? It started. I played number one on Sunday night. That's it.

So my first shot Monday morning was second tea. Okay. And did it feel like you were you were for a clear of third place? Did it feel like a two horse race or were you like this is the US open anything that happened? It did feel like a two horse race. I misspoke my first shot. Monday morning was my second shot on number two. Rick and I hit her t-shirts on two. Pardon me. It felt like a two horse race, except for the horses that were like three through ten. Right, right, you know?

The score wise, it felt like that, but in the back of my head, and I'm not gonna speak for Ricky, but I assume he felt that way too. Again, I don't know, but those names that were behind us, one that was probably gonna wear red and black, and one that left handed and you knew

they were gonna make a run and you knew something was gonna happen and sure enough here they can. I'm standing on 17T looking over at 18 and fills up there by the green, I'm thinking, oh my God, he's driven the greens and we're chipped at it and be tied, you know. But anyway, we, again, can't speak for Ricky, Oh my God, he's driven the greens. We'll chip that in, it'll be tied.

But anyway, we, again, can't speak for Ricky, but I had this feeling that if we didn't hold serve, they were gonna make a run and make it tough on us. And sure enough, they did. As they should have. Yeah, did the fact that the beak was extended and had so much weather issues, did that at all help you think with the nerves?

I mean, did that kind of throw you off your schedule and you had less time to get nervous in any way? Yeah, you know, there wasn't much sleeping on it. Yeah, because sleep was pretty quick. It was, you know, every day it was home and dark. Grabbed in or on the way home and get as much sleep as you could because you're up, you know, whatever it was, 4.35 o'clock, your restart at 7.38 o'clock.

And so, yeah, there wetting much sleeping on it, sleeping on being in the last group of the US opener, sleeping on being in the lead or sleeping on anything. It was boom, boom, boom, and you're back out there again and slopping through it. And so yeah, that definitely eased it a little bit as far as the nerves and thinking about it a lot. Would you classify your club choice

out the 72nd hole as a layup? I'll defer to my caddy on that because he had the driver, I think, tucked under his armpit. So we talked about it. We talked about it, actually. I was, so I didn't see the T was on it. Yeah.

I started, I walked up the hill behind 70 green and took the right and all the fans went, no, no, no, you're up here on it. No, I'm going. No, look, that was, whoa. And they were up on number five as well. So I said to Coup, my caddy, 16 years in August by the way. So put up with me a long time.

That's amazing. And I said, well, you know, what's the cover on the bunkers on both sides? He's like 27275 on the right. I said, all right. We think about driver. He goes, we're in six iron. I'm in. We are. He gets. Yeah. He goes. You've it five of us from the back to the 150. He goes, it's one 92 to the 150. Six iron nine iron. Let's go. And I looked at the bag and he had the driver

tucked under the bib on his arm. So yes, it was a layout. But it was because of him. I was good at this. So just ask, I told the couple of our no leg up guys about that we were doing this interview, of course, and they said, all right, well, you got to ask about the 6-iron 18.

If there's ever a pass to be given, it's on the 72nd hall of the US Open. So I'm not going to give you a hard time about that one. Two six-horns off of par four T's in the USO and found a round. Really? Five also, yeah. That was more strategy.

They put the T's up on five. Big dog like a left down the hill, you can't see the green. And Ricky had the T. And he hit three or five with one of the two. And if he had hit a nice shot, I'd already made it my mind that I was going to go for it also. Well, he had it left. And I thought I couldn't see it, but I thought it was, I knew it was short-sighted, I thought it might be in the heather.

So I laid it up to the top of the hill and still had a wedge in, and sure enough his balls in the heather and I picked up a shot. So that was all, that was dependent on him. And, you know, if I had the tee, I'd have probably gone for it there, but anyway. Playing a little match play. So after you won, if I had the tee, I'd have probably gone forward there. But anyway, playing a little match play. Um, so after you won, how much did your, did your life change pretty much overnight?

Being a major champion, second, second tour win. Yeah, literally overnight. Yeah, my, uh, uh, Michelle and management group, she called me and she goes, um, that flip phone you got. I said, yes, she goes, that's out. I said, what do you mean? She goes, I have to be able to get a hold of you and you have to know how to read an email and answer an email on your phone now, bummer. But no, it was quick.

It was, I say it all the time, all of a sudden, everybody wanted to know what I thought, like all of a sudden I'm smart. What do you think about this? You didn't ask me that two weeks ago and I hadn't won anything. But yeah, it changed. I got busy and I got a lot of offers to go,

a lot of places and play a lot of cool tournaments and a lot of them I didn't. I wanted to focus here and I thought the best chance to do that was having off-season rest and.S. Open was contending at the PGA. And you know, back then on Sunday, I would have been right there, I finished fifth or sixth. So that was kind of the validation of, all right, I did it and I competed again and that was fulfilling, I think, and gratifying you know, good word. What was the celebration like after you won? It was great. We straight to the city and Benjamin Steakhouse actually.

So, you know, typical Giammi old bunch of steak and a bunch of red wine and Tignanello. That was great. So, yeah, we got a good time. So when did the beard come into play? Fall 2010 out of just sheer laziness. I just, you know, two things I hate more than anything. Shave in an ironing. One of them, I don't do anymore.

One of them I do as little as possible shaving. So I just got lazy with it and somebody went, hey, man, that kind of looks cool. It looks pretty good. I was like, yeah, what I really are like, no, no, I'm trimming that and leave it. I was like, all right, we'll see. Let it grow.

Next thing you know, that it was. Yeah, that's a thing. I enjoyed it, you know, it was something to talk about in the locker room other than the seven iron. So it was fun. So then in fast forwarding to 2012, you had injury. You left knee, right? You heard it.

Paddle boarding, is that right? Right knee. Correct. Yeah. Out in Capelua. Yeah, it was paddle boarding. And I'd been paddle boarding four or five times a week for six, seven months. And I guess Hawaii, when you hire a guy to take you around, you gotta wear shoes for their insurance because of the coral.

And I was falling off like I'd done a hundred times and tried to spin over and fall on my back and my right shoe caught on the edge of the board. And I heard it pop. So yeah, busted my MCL up pretty good and torn on the Niscus. So it took a few weeks off and tried to play and the bad decision, tried to rehab it, play through it. And just one of those, I don't know, the term competitive bad decision. One of those things you looking back on, you wish just to got it operated on in February and been done with it instead. I waited till

September and formed some pretty bad habits and I'm also trying to play through it and protect it. That's kind of what I wanted to ask is that when you're living is made through your body, right? Like everything is kind of based on your body, it's got to be so hard unless you are devastatingly hurt to really hang it up and just say I'm not gonna play. Right, right. No, that's exactly right. And it was it was one of those things like in practice. It was okay. It was fine. But once I got out walking the stress on it from walking, trying to continue my workouts. And then the grind we were we've talked a lot about of weeks in a row and it

just it worked out even more and my golf swing was already suffering and I was in you know in train in a transition on a six-iron number five in Greensboro and it completely gave out. And you know again like you said hard to stop if you're not unable to walk I played five more holes. Just borrower. And so anyway, did that and that was it. Surgery month later. You know, bittersweet because I got out of surgery and my wife was the one that was sick and we were pregnant for the first child when I got out of surgery. So bittersweet surgery, but that was cool. Do you and your game kind of took a dip during that time period but you've had a bit of a career of resurgence

in the last few years, what do you attribute that to? Pudding butter, yeah. There's no secret while I was struggling, I've fought the yips and no problem talking about it, no problem saying the word, I had it, not a thing, but got a pretty good handle on it. Still getting nervous, still getting anxious over some short ones, but I've worked hard enough on the mental approach and some physical stuff.

I think my putting stroke is good as it's ever been. What is that like to go through that? Everyone battles at some point, I think. Yeah, it's absolutely devastating to mentally, to hit the ball like I normally hit it and walk up to a green and be nervous, even if it's the first one on Thursday. And you know, you hit a nice seven-hundred and there 15 feet, roll it by a couple feet and miss it. I mean, it's devastating. I just played the whole as it should be played. And because of an issue I have, a mental issue, I have, I've just made bokeh. And, but yeah, I fought it for years,

and I still get nervous. How did you address that or what did you do to kind of come back? Well, I got over instructed, my fault, too much information, too many people, instead of sticking with one thing. And I'm not blaming any of those instructors. They were all great. Had my best interest, gave me a lot of good information, but I took too much information. And I got mentally swamped and I kind of forgot,

I forgot what made me a good putter. I'll be at a streaky putter. I was a good putter. When it was streaky, it was really good. But I lost sight of that and kind of fell victim to technology, kind of fell victim to equipment, kind of fell victim to warning information. I'm not a dumb person, but I play better when I don't know much. Anyway, again, I'm not taking anything away from anybody I've ever worked with, but I asked for too much and all they did was their job. But I think that compounded my issue because all of a sudden what I naturally did well

wasn't natural anymore. And I'm just now kind of getting back to that natural kind of hands forward, keeping them forward through the ball stroke instead of the neutral stuff that The new putters promote which is you know, which is a fine way to put obviously there's tons of people to put well that way I'm just not one of them and I last year and Predominantly clawed most of the year especially from short And most of this year I've been regular handed and you know, been good, not great. You know, there's been some streaks where it was really good

and some streaks where it was bad. And statistics say it was bad, but I don't feel like it's been that and ball striking isn't where it needs to be. So far, but we're working on that too. I gotta read is the Mark Brody stuff, and you won't feel any pressure. I'm gonna get you out of here on this. So I gotta read the Mark Brody stuff and you won't feel any pressure. We'll get you out of here on this.

So I hear you're quite a reader. What do you read these days? Or what do you like to do? I just started a book called Sapiens, which is like a history of obviously, I'm a Sapiens bunch. And like six pages and literally started the last night. I read everything.

I've made a pact with myself for every, I call them airport books. For every airport murder mystery, I got to read two proper books that I can actually gain some intelligence from. So, trying to read this Sapiens just for some insight on human history, basically, and how we got here. I think a lot of it's maybe sensationalized because nobody really has an account of depending on what you believe a million years ago or 10,000 years ago, but it's drew me in the back of it. I'm interested. What's your number one book recommendation?

Pillars of the Earth. Pillars of the Earth. And there's two more world without end. And the newest one just came out. A column of fire, English writer named Ken Follett, English history, religion, love, romance, murder, ename, every book has everything. It was recommended to me by family member. I finished it.

And I just kind of reflected on it and I said, I've never read anything where I've like hit every emotion possible in a book. And that one did it and then the second one did it and now the third one's done it, I just finished it. So, pretty amazing. So that's my favorite of all time and that trilogy would be up there for recommendations. Did you really read four books during the US Open? Yes, that's how that's how much

down to I was in the hotel. And you know, yeah, I mean, again, those were those airport books I was talking about. Pick them up and put them down and there you go. Two, three hours of your time with them, but anyway to pass the time out here when you're soloing a hotel. I understand it. So all right, thanks so much for your time with them, but anyway, to pass the time out here when you're so low in a hotel.

I understand it. So, all right, thanks so much for your time, man. Sorry to take up so much of it, but thanks for joining and best of luck this week and on the road as well. Thanks so much. Appreciate it. Give it a like club. Be the right club today.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's better than most. How about in?

That is better than most. Better than most! Expect anything different? Staying different.