No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 147: Mike Davis

Episode Date: June 12, 2018

The CEO of the USGA, Mike Davis joins us to talk about his background in golf, the U.S. Open returning to Shinnecock Hills, the USGA’s reaction to the low scores at Erin Hills, and how... The post NLU Podcast, Episode 147: Mike Davis appeared first on No Laying Up. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Before we get rolling here, let's take a quick minute to talk about the stars and stripes chrome soft truvas golf ball that Callaway released last month. It's one of the coolest looking golf balls I've seen and it features Callaway's popular truvas pattern in the patriotic red white and blue design, which is fitting as all of Callaway's chrome soft balls are made here in the US and of course it is US open week. In fact, the Callaway players are going to be using these truvas balls on the range this week. The ball features everything you love about the performance of ChromeSoft, including the graphene infused outer core.

It's allows Callaway to engineer an incredible feeling golf ball that's low spin off the tee with the increased shot stopping spin around the green. These golf balls are often offered in limited quantities available for purchase at select retailers and online. Visit calawaygolf.com for more info and be sure to pick up yours before they're gone. Let's get to the podcast. Be the right club today. That is better than most.

That is better than most. Better than most. Expect anything different. Alright guys, we're going to get shortly here to our interview with Mike Davis. We had about 25 minutes within this morning. This is Monday of US Open Week. So we're going to play that for you and then stick around to after that, the whole crew here is going to talk a bit about what Mike had to say.

We're going to talk US Open setups and whatnot. So for now, let's get to Mike Davis. All right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No-Lang-Up podcast. We're joined today Maybe the busiest man in the world this week the CEO of the usga mr. Mike Davis Mike I know you're gonna get a ton of questions about the us open and all that we're gonna get into that But I kind of want to get into first a bit of your background

How you grew up in the game of golf? What kind of golf courses you like to play where you play now, and kind of your own personal history with the game of golf? Well, listen, I started out for sure. It's great to be with you. I started out at a fairly young age. I think I was maybe eight years old. I used to tag along with my father, and this was in Chamersburg, Pennsylvania. So they were members of Chamersburg Country Club. From a very young age, I fell in love with the game You know, I played junior golf and then went on to play college golf, but You know, I've loved it from the perspective of I

loved the competition Obviously, you know followed the the PGA tour for many years and I can remember my father Taking me to the 1975 rider cup and I went to the 1980 and 1981 US Opens that were held at Baldest Row in Marion respectively. And I, you know, there was another part of it. I always enjoyed was just studying golf courses. I, from a very young age, had a love of golf courses and architecture and you know it's such a unique thing about our game that other sports really don't offer is that the playing field is so different in our sport versus others that and it's something

even to this day you know I still love playing the game but I find myself often times out on a golf course, particularly those that I haven't seen before, looking around at the architecture and thinking about what the person who designed it and built it was thinking on certain things and different grasses, you know, the bumps and bumps. And so from a very, very young age, I've just been enamored with the game and continue to be to this day. So, what is one of the obviously your main responsibilities over the years has been

being in charge of the core setup for the US Open, and we're just kind of curious as to what your game is like. The guy that's kind of in charge of all the setups, are you a bomber, are you pretty straight-hitter? What is your golf game like? Well, listen, it's I've gotten older. I'm getting shorter and more crooked. Is that why the fairways are getting wider at the US Open? It's exactly. Yeah, it's my, I need more width. I did play competitive golf,

but certainly did not play at the level of these US open players. But I've been around it most of my life. And while I can't play to their level of the game anymore, I do understand their game. So when I can understand, and I watch a lot, if they're hitting a six-iron, I understand by and large what they can do with that six iron, the trajectory they can hit it, how fast they can stop it. I think that by and large understand, again, can't play anymore at that level, but I think that just there's such an interest in that game at the elite level that, listen, I would say in terms of golf

course setup, I've always felt that for somebody to have competency in it, they really needed four different things. And one of that is to understand the players that are playing in a given event. So if you're setting up the US open or you're setting up the US women's open or you're setting up your club championship at your golf course, you need to understand the capabilities of the players playing. A second thing I really do firmly believe that having an interest in an understanding and golf course architecture is very important in terms of setting up a golf course. You really have to get into the mind of what,

what did the architect want each hole to be played? What, was it a green that's accepting of a very long shot that you can bounce in? Is it typically played down when, or is it a smaller green that's maybe fronted with a bunker or a water hazard that you have to fly. And, you know, with that in mind, how firm can the greens be? And, you know, you work your way from the green back to the drive zone and say, you know,

what did the architect want the drive zone to be? And then you work your way back to the bunker, excuse me, to the teen ground. So in some ways to set up a golf course, you really do have to dissect each hole and think about how that hole fits. And then there's a cadence to the golf courses that you don't necessarily want a bunch of long holes in a row, you want a nice balance, a nice rhythm, ebb and flow.

And then beyond architecture, you really do need to understand agronomics. You need to understand grasses. And I say that because grasses react differently. I mean, a ryegrass rough, for example, is very different from a bluegrass rough. And when you get a wet ryegrass rub, the club slips through it just easy. When ryegrass gets dry, it gets very tacky. Bluegrass tends to be a little thicker, and particularly when it's wet, permutigrass, the ball and the ryegrass tends to sink down. Fest you grass tends to just go dormant if it doesn't get enough water versus other

grasses will literally die on you. So understanding all those things about grasses and how maybe on the pudding green, there's a blend of poana versus bent, how's that going to affect the role of the ball late in the day versus maybe it's a bermuda grass green and there's grain in it and how does that affect things. So knowing agronomy really is important. And then the last part is just it's mother nature. It's understanding what the weather might do

to the golf course and your setup. So is it a hole that's into the wind or downwind? Is it a crosswind? What's the evaporation rate on a given day and how much is the golf course going to dry out? So if it's a humid day with cloud cover, you know, you can put a little less water on the golf course. If you're lucky enough to have firm conditions and maybe get away with it. But you know, here's an example this week at the Shinnococ where this is a sand-based golf course. It dries out quickly.

It's a windy golf course. And so for us, understanding how quickly moisture leaves the ground is very important because we want to make sure that the golf course is a proper test not only in the morning, but also in the afternoon. So all those plan to, you know, what we look at when we're setting up the golf course. So along those lines, I know we were at the media day and you talked a little bit about CB McDonald and William Flynn and the history of Chinatown Cahill's restoring, restoring shot values. And I think people are going to see a much different Chinatown Cahill's in 2018 that we did in 2004.

But I want to know how much of that change is the club. Is Shinnecock Hills responsible for how much of those changes are the USDA responsible for? And what are the changes that you felt needed to be made in your mind? Well, a great question. You start with, this is one of the greatest golf courses in the United States.

And for that matter, in the world, this is the only golf course that's hosted the US Open in three different centuries. This is a club in a golf course that's had a profound effect. And really the formation of golf in the United States, you go back, I mean, it's one of the five founding clubs in the United States. You go back, I mean it's one of the five founding clubs of the USJ. It hosted the second US Open, the second US Amateur 1896 and I can go on and on in terms of its history and its prominence and how it's affected and impacted the game. But you know fast forward to today and really where this course is and to your question to today and really where this course is and to your question, the club has done a magnificent job in really restoring the grandeur of this William Flynn design.

The William Flynn came in in 1929 and essentially redesigned a course. And it was moved a little bit north of where it sits right now because there was literally a railroad come through. And frankly, the game had changed with innovations, with clubs and balls, but what Flynn designed in 1929 and ultimately opened in 1931, if you looked in an aerial from that time, and we have looked at aerials from that time, you'd quickly find that they have literally, whether it's the size of greens

or getting bunkering into play again, and it's been a remarkable restoration. And that has really been the club itself. And we certainly didn't direct it, but we applauded that. So I think you know in terms of restoration, what's different about this US open than what you would have seen in 2004 or 1995 or even going back to 1986 is that you've got Bunkering that is now in play Where it's not covered up by rough anymore the way it I mean it it almost just become these narrow hallways that you know that I think William Flynn If he had been alive probably would not have approved them and now there's so many angles

There's a lot there's just frankly more strategy. The Greens over the years had become round ovals and now the sudden, you know, the club has taken it back to the original and they, you know, they did work some with Bill Koran, Ben Crenshaw that were very helpful. But the credit really goes to Shinnecock Hills and a few key members here that really wanted to see that great William Flynn design return. So I would say that our input really was just looking at it from the standpoint of how

we would set the US open up. We did add 10 new team rounds for this open. So you know, slightly over 400 yards additional yardage. And I would tell you that we did that, not because we wanted more yardage and necessarily wanted to make it harder. We did it because it made sense

to really get the course back the way the architect wanted to play. So, there was frankly some drive zones that if we had not added yardage, you know, you know, bunkering would have just been taken out of play. So there was frankly some drive zones that if we had not added yardage, you know, you know, bunkering would have just been taken out of play. And there are, you know, there are, there was a handful of holes here at Shinnokok that have incredible angles to them. And we were able to with some new teas to get some of these, you know, these bunkers back into playware, for instance, if you play more left on a drive zone,

there's a bigger carry over a cross bunker, but you get a much better angle into the green. So there's a little risk award that the players are going to have in some options. And so at the end of the day, wow, it will look a little different. We think it's just going to play beautifully. And from what we've heard from players so far, they're loving the golf course and the architecture. For those that, I'm, it's well documented that the fairways have averaged about 26 yards wide in 2004 and they're going to average 41 yards wide for the 2018 US Open. But even before the USGA began the setup, the fairways, I think we're averaging somewhere around 61 yards wide, which you guys came in and did narrow them some in a lot of locations.

Was that in any way a reaction to potentially the very low scores that came out of Aaron Hills last year with the abnormally largely, the abnormally wide fairways? You know, I listen, in part, I think it was, but it wasn't so much the scoring, as it was when we look back at Aaron Hills, which is a wonderful golf course, great architecture there, obviously a new golf course.

That traditionally was an exceptionally windy site, and it's two sits on a very well-draining sandy kind of gritty soil and you know our experience had been last year that it was such a windy firm site that you had to give the players more width for them or it just could become an unfair experience and you know as it turned out last year the wind really was kind of a non-factor, and we got a lot of rain, so it just played slower and frankly wider because it was soft conditions without win. And I think as we look forward to this year,

it was interesting because we knew we were gonna have a wider golf course because of the restoration, and we applauded that restoration here at Chinacoch Kills. On the other hand, I think we, you know, accuracy is part of a US Open test. It's not the whole thing, but it is part of the test. And we felt that there were just some holes that needed to be narrowed.

And by the way, when we talk about that 26 yards average width 14 years ago versus 41 now, it's not as if every whole is 15 yards wider. There are some that are, you know, down in that 26, 25 yards in width. And there are others, I mean, I can think of a couple that are 60 yards wide, but they don't play that wide because it's all about angles saying you take the eight pole, for example. Well, that's 62 yards wide, but if you take it down the left side,

you've got to carry it some 300 yards in the air to make that part of the fairway. But if you can, and generally it's into the wind, you get a great angle into the green versus if you play kind of up the middle of the hole, it may be a 270 yard carry and if you play down the right of the hole, it's 220 yard security. So, you know, while that may be a 62 yard wide fairway, from the player standpoint, they're having to pick a certain distance with an angle, so it doesn't really necessarily play that wide. And I also say because the course does sit on sand and it's windy, whatever these wits are, they play narrower than what they really are because the ball's going to

be bouncing. And again, it's trying to control your trajectory and your shape of the shot and when is, as we all know, is obviously more difficult. Yeah, I think one of the things that gets lost even amongst the best players in the world is when they see wide fairways their brain turns to, I can hit it anywhere I want now and not start not thinking about some of the things that you that you emphasize there about playing up the right sides of holes and angles and whatnot. So I do like seeing that element brought back to it and kind of more and more of a test and just hit it long and straight every single hole. But one of the topics you touched on here was kind of the shapes of the greens and how some of that was restored.

But also how some of the green surrounds are going to look different than they did in 2004 with a lot more short grass and the opportunity for that ball to roll away from the hole and have a little bit more challenge. A different kind of challenge with the approach shots around the greens. Can you talk a bit about the philosophy behind maybe not as much thick heavy rough near green sites and the different look that we're going to see this year for the US Open? Sure. Well, this is really going back to trying to be true to what the architect wanted. So if you go back and you look at Chinatown Cochills, this is what William Flynn designed years ago. And this is being true. What's interesting is this doesn't mean that every year you're going to see this happen. I mean, next year Pebble Beach at the US Open, you will see thick rough generally speaking around the greens. When the following

year, you know, those elevated greens with a lot of contours at wing foot with the flash bunkers, the thick rough round the greens, that's what wing foot is and that's what pebble beaches. So this year, this is what Shinnecock kills is and what's interesting is that, you know, intuitively, you'd say, well, if there was rough round the the greens it would make it harder and I think most of these players would agree here that when you get firm fast conditions and you get these closely known areas where the ball all the sudden instead of rolling over the back of a green stopping on an upslope and some rough all the sudden a sudden now it runs 30, 40, 50 feet over the green and they've got this really tough shot

to a blind green that they might put. They might hit a bump and run, they might pitch. It gives them options, but options aren't necessarily always easy and just putting that little bit of doubt in their mind. And we've already heard players talk about that. They love that. And I think that if we get these close-see moon areas right,

you're going to see some players put, some players hit kind of a bump and run, maybe with the hybrid or three wood or maybe a little chip and run with a seven iron. But you also may see flock shots. And that's the beauty of Shinnecock Hills is that it really allows the players to show their shot making skills.

And I think we're incredibly excited about that. By the way, the other thing it does is it intimidates players. I mean, there's several holes out here that you're just saying, oh my God, if I go over this green or I go left over or right of it, I'm going to know man's land. And if it was rough, they'd know the ball's going to hit and just stick, but that's not the case this week. You get maybe more feedback than maybe anyone else in the entire golf world, especially from the pros.

There's a lot of complaining that goes on. I'm sure that some of it gets kind of brushed aside, but I want to know what's the best player feedback you've gotten, or the best player feedback you've gotten or in recent years feedback you've gotten from specific from the players that you kind of really rang with you and kind of something that you actually did react to. You know what's interesting, one of the things I've noticed over the years, first of all, with US Open,

there's always a lot of talk about the golf course. And part of the reason is, it really is golf's ultimate test. This is a different week than they experience week to week. They've got to be on their game. And if they're not on their game, whether it's their shot execution or whether it's their course management, this week will expose that and and so the players always come on come in a little on edge and by the way that that's not something new. I mean if you read history this has been going on for 125 years. I mean you go back to the late

1890s and you read about you know US, US Opens played at a myopia hunt club. Same things were happening then now. And, you know, you talk of some of the greats from yesterday's, you know, Jack Nicholas. He loved this event because he knew it was more than just shot making. It was course management. It was handling your nerves. And, you know, he used to think, you know, one of the reasons I love the US Open so much is that some of the players come in and they've already, they've already gotten in their head how hard it is or they're, you know, whatever feeling about the course and he'd say, okay, well, I don't have to beat them because they've

already beat themselves. And, but, you know, I listen, this is, you know, this is more than just, as I say, execution. It's a mental test. And I think that's one of the beauties. But, you know, back to your question about input from players, there are some incredibly cerebral players that will offer things up that absolutely we, we, we will listen and oftentimes do react. But I would also say sometimes you hear, I'll give you an example, sometimes you hear from players in practice rounds, you need to speed the greens up. Other players will say, hey, these greens, they're too fast right now or they're too firm or they're too fast right now or they're too firm or they're too soft and so we listen,

no doubt we listen, but I will tell you we observe more than we listen. So we want to go out there and practice days and frankly we do this in championship days too. We want to see how balls react. I mean, if for instance players are hitting mid-Irns into a green, we might want to ball, you know, struck properly out of the fairway to kind of bounce, bounce, and then begin to stop. And so, you know, if you're just talking to a player, you may not get that versus if you can actually go out and witness it yourself

and understand where the furnace of the green is, where we want it to be, and sometimes maybe we'll soften green up because it is getting to firm or vice versa. We will firm it up because we're just seeing balls stop too quickly. So it's the player input comes both from us listening, but also as I say, Candle, it's more watching than listening. You last couple here. I know you're pressed for time here, but I know you're a bit of a history buff, and I was just curious as to what are some of your favorite

courses that, like in a perfect world, you'd love to see a men's US Open hosted at, but are considered maybe too short by modern standards. Wait, you know, if you go back, in some cases, maybe the R2 short by modern standards in some cases maybe it just don't have enough space to put all the operations in but you know if you go up and down the list of the greatest golf courses in this country I mean think about some of the classics that are in

that top 50 list or top 100 you know we can all think of some course you'd say, wow, what would it be like if you had a US Open at X? I mean, you know, like a Cypress point is an example that, you know, it doesn't have enough space for a US Open and it doesn't really have enough length anymore, but it architecturally is absurdly good. It is just a great course that Alistair McKenzie designed that's right on the ocean, that's a sandy site that's exposed to wind.

You know, it's one of the world's greatest walks and architecture pieces, but you know, it can't host because it just simply doesn't have enough room for all the operations that you need at a US Open. But that said, our list right now is so good of sites we have that frankly, we have more sites that want to host the US Open that we have room for. And so I guess that's a good problem to have. But there are certainly, we all know if

we follow golf and architecture, there are some really cool sites out there that will be fun to have a US open, but probably will never happen. All right. Last one. I'm dying to know, do you stay in touch with the Jungle Bird from Olympic Club in 2012? You know, it was what's interesting about that is that when that all happened, it, it, I think back that all of a sudden, I see this person come on right in front of the camera. You have Bob Costas of NBC doing an interview with, with Web Simpson and all

of a sudden this bird man came up. And first thought is, what is this guy doing? He's ruining Webb's big moment. So I'm looking around and there's nobody going to do anything. So I almost instinctively go out and grab him and then I'm pulling him off the green and I'm thinking, what am I going to do with this guy? And bottom line, I tossed him in the bunker. But I look back and then I quickly went back behind the green and I'm thinking, I cannot believe that just happened. Pretend like it didn't happen. Anyways, but he did what's really interesting is he called me maybe two, three months afterwards and he's really, and it's

hard to believe, but very nice guy. He's highly educated. He was from England, and this was all about rainforest, basically deforestation. He was really on a kick to say, I'm going to show up at the world's biggest sporting events. He was really on a kick to say I'm gonna show up at the world's biggest sporting events And he's I he went to a Notre Dame football game and ran out the field He's been to I think you did a World Cup soccer I forget where else he's been but he was actually very nice and I took his call and we chatted for about 10 minutes and Haven't heard from him since since but you know, it's funny. I you know

haven't heard from him since, since, but, you know, it's funny. I, you know, Graham McDowell, who won our 2010 US Open, he thought that was so funny. He sent me, he sent me one, basically, the same hat that this guy had on, which is the UK flag, what he called the Union Jack flag, and a picture of it. And I do have that in my office. UK Flare with what he called the Union Jack flag and A picture of it and I do have that in my office that so it's I've tried to kind of forget that But I look back and with some good laughs. It makes us laugh every time So Mike, thank you. Thank you so much for your time best of luck this week with the US open And we'll definitely be tuned in and I hope to do this again sometime. Okay Chris great being with you

Thanks so much for having me cheers thanks okay take care alright guys what did you think about uh... what mr davis had to say today uh... i love it always always a fan i think i could listen to him uh... he's a bit of a filibuster i think he uh... which is good i don't you know no fence to yourself but i'd rather hear from him than from you that's the point uh... yeah he definitely is not uh... not a short answer guy, but he's very thoughtful and very calculated, but genuine, I think, is kind of my take from him.

I'm a huge fan of listening to him talk. Yeah, I've learned more about him just in the research process, too. I didn't realize he's just like this guy from Pennsylvania that went to Georgia, Southern. I imagine there was some culture shock there. So I think he's got a pretty interesting story. Lookatius even. That's the word that comes in mind for me. I enjoyed the interview.

I wish we could have a little bit more of his time. I thought he was going to be kind of stiff and buttoned up. And I thought at least maybe today we caught him and he was just very open and warm and I think much more personality shown through than what I was expecting. I thought that, you know, from a journalism perspective, I thought you asked about the Jungle Bird was an important question. I thought it was going to be pissed if you didn't ask that. I thought it was a disgrace.

You didn't hold his feet to the fire out backstopping. Personally? Shockingly in 25 minutes could not No, I think we would be great to sit down with them one time and sometimes not during us open week Probably and just get his backstory and hear about him personally a lot a lot of different stories I can imagine that guys the stories that guy has to tell but he does he knows he's doing a lot of media this week And it's a spokesman role and he's gonna hit the talking points, but I think we all agree.

This is kind of a different level of excitement for the US open, going back to a course like Shinnecock, then like some of the mystery courses like Aaron Hills and Chambers Bay. It's crazy, it's been 14 years since they've been back there. I mean, it's kind of the quintessential along with Oakmont. I think the quintessential US Open. Yeah, site. So it's been thrilling speaking of 14 years ago. It's been just absolutely delightful to watch the footage from that

04 US Open of balls rolling off the greens and I mean, it's just Really like I know, you know, they they'd like to have that one over but as a fan who was watching Carnage, I've been a big fan of watching that stuff again. It's amazing how, I guess, Okman has hosted two US opens since Shinnecock has hosted the last one. I'd imagine the 14-year gap is a lot to do with how poorly the one went in 2004. I think when we're up at the media day, how much they talked about, kind of, as being a new era and all they've learned from that, there is a lot of, we see a lot like me, a culpa admitting the fault and a lot of the mistakes they made.

It does seem like they've learned a lot from this process. I mean, Fowler said, welcome to the new age. Twice. Welcome to the new age. Welcome to the new age. Yeah. This could be what he was referring to. That might have been what it would haveag it up for the folks at Fox. Great art takes a lot of time, a long time to process. Sometimes it, and interpret.

But I think a lot of what Mike says about golf course setup and he gets a lot, they've got a lot of criticism for widening the fairways at Aaron Hills, which we can talk a bit about Aaron Hills. And we're going to see a much wider golf course, obviously, this year than we saw in 2004, but he explained kind of the reasoning behind that and why some of those averages that are thrown off by like the eighth hole is extremely wide, but it's you stay on that tee box and it's not a

hole where you feel like you need the width, right? And we stayed on like that third tee box, which is a 500 yard par four, it was like, tight, just legally tight. And so it's not like it's just gonna be bought. I don't know, just the reaction to some of the caddies been out there so far this week. Like it's gonna be a bomber's paradise. I don't necessarily think that's the case. I think that there's some funny kind of stats going off.

Like, you know, I remember when Azinger, I think it was Azinger was going through on the podcast and kind of rattling off some of the widths of the fairways and stuff. And he was talking about number eights. Like, you know, that one's 65 yards. And when you're looking at it on a list, like, yeah, that seems ridiculous.

But when you see the hole and it's like, well, no, it's a really short, like angular par four. Like that's why the fairway is set up like that. It's not, you know, a bombs away kind of like hit it wherever you want sort of thing. It makes a big difference. So it's like anything. When you look at it on paper, it's a lot different than when you look at it. And the part you want to hit the ball into is not necessarily 60 yards difference. So it's like anything. When you look at it on paper, it's a lot different than when you look at it. And the part you want to hit the ball into is not

necessarily 60 yards wide. So it's not, yeah, it's not. No, I think, I mean, we said it before, but I think and this maybe kind of leads into the next point, but if they get the conditions that they want, this seems like it is the absolute perfect kind of golf course for this tournament. And the thing that's interesting about that, and I've been thinking about it more and more, and when you have a golf course like that, where it's so dependent on conditions, and by that, I mean, getting firm and fast, and not getting the right amount of wind and the right direction wind, and all that stuff,

when you don't have that stuff, you have to look for controlling those constants. And that's where I think you've seen the US open and kind of become what it was in the 80s, 90s, where it was, you know, trees, you know, having tree-lined fairways doesn't matter which way the wind is going, or, you know, less so. Whereas, you know, it's just interesting,

when you, it's kind of a risk when you go to courses like this that are so dependent on conditions and wind and all that stuff. But when it pays off, it pays off and at Aaron Hills, it didn't, and, you know, there was, because it was soft and because it wasn't windy and stuff. But, you know, when it pays off, it pays off and at Aaron Hills, it didn't. And you know, there was, because it was soft and because it wasn't windy and stuff, but you know, when it does hit, it should be as good as it possibly gets. Yeah, Aaron Hills got rain.

Weke of, I think, in the week prior, and I've been trekking the weather in Long Island, there's not been rain in the last couple of weeks. Weke's got rain and then it just didn't, the wind just didn't blow up. Well, we got some reports from some caddies. It's like, you know, 1978 British open, like puffs of dust.

We, you know, it's the balls landing out there now, which is sick. I deal. I mean, when we saw the course a few weeks ago, we were kind of, you know, we got an idea for the layout, but we both kind of walked away, saying like we didn't feel like we actually played. The golf course of these guys are going to play

because you could hit it in spots around the green and you're backspinning the ball up the up slopes. Like's going down the hill but you're backspinning it up the hill. It's so soft. It's not that hard to shout really. But that's what I'm saying is the course is defined by hitting it in these spots that you're going to make bogey from like 100% and you might make triple from it. So I think they needed that cooperation from other nature so far. They've got it. And if they get the right amount of win for this, it's going to be probably like the best possible US Open test you can have.

Randy, when when the US Open, when you hear US Open, what course pops in mind for you? Oakmont. Yeah. That's it's pretty quick. Shini. Yeah, Shini's not far behind. Is that a weird way of pronouncing Aaron Hills or what? No more than anything I'm a I'm a car crash guy like Five six over as a winning score is that's what I'm that's what I'm here for You want you want the carnage? Yeah, I want the carnage. I want it to be brutal parser elephant. I hope this well Not not to me, but carnage isn't I hope this, wow, not to me.

But carnage isn't even, you know, you can have carnage without having crazy low score, or you know, with crazy low scores even if there's just some holes that are a little bit extreme. Like that little par three at Aaron Hills was sick. I love that hole. Well, that's what it's looking back. I did a little research on air and hills and stuff.

And seeing, of course, 1600 par one. And there was a decent amount of guys, you know, resting at eight under par. And there was a lot of decently low scores. But seeing six, I think six of the top 10 in the world got ejected in the first two rounds and did not make the cut. Like, very shooting 78. And, um, that, that, that, that, Rob didn't make the cut. DJ missed the cut. And it was was like the scores were, the high scores were all out there, right? It was like a really strong dividing line of, if you had your game on and dialed in, you could take it pretty deep.

But man, if you weren't, like you were hacking out of that FESCU for the two days that you were there, and then you were shipped out of town. I think if you put guys on a par 72 course, and you get the soft conditions and not the win, the scores were inevitably going to be low. And I think if they have set it up any harder than they did and if the win blew harder and if it got any drier than that, then they could have been a recipe for disaster. And I think they are going to hopefully. I take issue with the word disaster.

I, you know, from my point of view, that's awesome. That's not a disaster I think the disaster is what we got which was a kind of an anti-climatic boring US open from that standpoint Can we talk about so sorry to interrupt you there, but I think you know from my perspective at least I think the disaster is mean something different. Can we talk about? I had already forgotten Fescue Gate last year, where on Tuesday morning before the US over last year, they were out there with like weed whackers knocking down the best queue because players were complaining about it. I don't know if it was because the players were complaining about it or if it was just,

you know, always part of the plan, like they kind of let on to believe. But it's like once you look at the forecast and say, oh, the wind's not gonna blow, then what's the reasoning for not having that? Right, that higher fescue there. Well, I think it's still played really tough out of the fescue. The issue is the top guys were not hitting out in the fescue at all

because the fairways are so wide. Right, and I think Mike talked about that on the podcast a little bit too, that I think that's like what you get at the US Open that you just don't get at other tournaments. It's just this hugely serious dissection of the golf course, which is just from like an absurdity standpoint, it's just it's the best. I love it. Everybody gets to put their their experts. Yeah, exactly.

Well, I just don't understand the rush to, you know, at Chambers Bay and Aaron Hills, what's the rush to have a US open there? Let it grow in for five years or 10 years or whatnot. We have a plethora of awesome golf courses like, I mean, shit, LA Country Club's having it in 2023 for the first time ever, and that club's been around for decades, you know? Yeah, I wanted to get into that with Mike,

and we didn't get a chance to, but just like, what is kind of the philosophy in bringing in two new courses in three years, and whether or not he views them as a success, and I think just inherently, when you don't have the classic element to a course, players are even less likely the whole back of their opinion on it, they have no membership to adhere to or anything like that.

And there's no tradition there that you're stomping on when you just shred Chambers Bay greens, which deserved it for in fairness sake. But I think... Go ahead. Sorry, I wonder if the promise to host a US Open helped in the development of those courses. Yeah, for sure. For sure. But I don't think it's a bad idea to see it either.

Well, like baseball stames like, like oh if you build a new state We'll give you the all-star. Yeah, exactly five years from now. It's just kind of an impetus down Like yeah, we'll build the course and you'll host one in 20 years I don't think anyone's really signing up for that deal But it's also that that like that introduces a host of different variables then that aren't present and other tournaments like you look at You know they at Chambers Bay they hadn't been through a bunch of summers where you know totally oh for sure no not saying what's right or wrong yeah I think it's yeah it's just like a big event to be to leave all that stuff the chance especially when there are

blueprints but I think kind of going in in line with the distance discussion that you know surrounds the USGA is where in the last 20 years, we've been at this era where balls are going obviously way further than they ever have in the past. That list of courses is strengthening. Is shrink, shrink, shrink and in. Shrink and in. Just tighten, they're shrink it, just shrink it,

just go ahead on. So yeah, maybe there aren't, they're kind of worried about just sticking to two, I don't think you can have two tight of a rotation though. I think the OPE, the British open does a great job with that and they don't, it never feels too repetitive to go to the old course every five or six years or anything like that.

But I don't know, I think the key is gotta be and I don't feel you were talking about wanting the carnage. I think we all wanted to play difficult big Randy. But the issue is when the great shots aren't getting rewarded and I think that's kind of what they feared what happened at 04 and in opens in the past like a Marion and whatnot There's just some holes that you can hit a absolutely perfect shot and play it right in the way that you think you should Be play it and it not work out and I think that's that's the dividing line of you know I'm fine with a good shot getting ejected because of how hard the course is,

but a great one, I think there should be some reward to that. So, I don't know how you find that line though. That's gotta be the hardest thing. I think that's gotta be the hardest, yeah, the hardest thing in golf today. And the fly so close to the sun. You gotta be a habitual line stepper. Well, I was gonna say, if a shot doesn't turn out,

well, is it really a great shot? I mean, not to get philosophical, but if it's not possible. You can say it was a great play, but if it didn't turn out well, then it's not a great play. If there's literally no option to get it in position though, that's kind of where, like some of the Chambers Bay shots

where guys were landing the ball left of the fairway, and it was missing the fairway to the right. That's kind of like, alright what do we do what are we actually doing here? I think Gary's playing with the best take on Chambers back. I think it's I don't know. Yeah sorry go ahead. It's a fantasy. It's actually a tragedy.

I just like that these pros for maybe one week a year just aren't in complete control. And to watch guys like freak out and melt because they're not in complete control is fascinating. That's why I think it's great when it encourages playing the ball on the ground. On the ball on the ground, they don't quite know exactly what it's going to do. And whoever's most in control of their golf ball, the ball's on the ground is in my mind the best, you know, the best approximation of who should win the US Open. Speaking of which, big Randall, I know you love predictions who's going to win the US Open. Well, of course I don't know.

But, but, but, I think in my heart, in my heart I believe that Mikkelson is going to win a U.S. Open. And it seems like Shinnecock would be just about an ideal place for him to do that. Is he going to go full button down this week? It's going to be kind of cool to be a question. You know what, I'll say this and I was thinking of this watching him in Memphis. Some of his outfits are disgrace and he wears these like all navy ensembles and the navy suit. Bagged.

It's actually a tragedy. He needs to be white and black and just be really crisp this week. I'm a firm believer when he dresses well, he plays well. It's a dress of color, so. Yeah, he's got to leave, he's got to leave the,

can't get cute with it this week. I'm gonna have to fact check you on that, because I feel like I remember him playing well when he's got like the really ugly brown pants or like the striped, like the candy striper pants. In a big tournament? Maybe not. Maybe I'm misremembering.

Do you remember his open championship outfit? Yeah, you're right, just black and white. Just black, it got to look good. And you know the thing is, you know, stripes out. Well, studies have shown that college teams play more aggressive when they wear black. Is that the best fill quote of all time? It might be. They get more penalties.

Going into the final round of the masters. Yeah, they play more aggressive. They get more penalties when they wear black. So I'm going to be wearing black tomorrow for the final round. Yeah. Like, I think that's what I fell in love with Phil. That's what I was like. All right, I get it.

I see what you're doing now and I'm in. It's working for me. Tron, do you have a pick? I guess, Randall, what was your pick then as Phil, your pick with your head and your heart? Yeah, I think Mikkelson and Speed will probably share it. Okay. Two won't play out.

Two won't play out. No, they'll end tied. I'm just going through some odds here. Brandon Grace, 31. Two won't play out to no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no You're a big brison guy. Yeah, he might be. What does the data say? He's trending. You all watch out. Yeah, he's in a spot. I wouldn't be shocked. Arcaddy said that he was out there like about a couple of weeks before we were out there for the media day,

and he said he shot 66 out there from back tees all the way back. I would imagine he would play the back tees, but. Yeah, I think he's going to play it all the way back. Probably. It's TNF I guess yeah Um You know my heart says leash

50 50 to one right now. I'm gonna probably throw a hundred bucks on him Cool man, that's cool man But my head says either Justin Rose Trust Fund Tron Tron is hundreds of dollars He's third right Justin Rose or I fund Tron. Tron is hundreds of dollars. He's the third right. Justin Rose, or I think John Rom makes some noise.

Deach. I was going to say Leeshman as well. I think it is absolutely perfect for him. And he's been playing well. So I had to be kind of tag team. You're take there. But I was going to say, I mean, I pick Leeshman for every single year.

Well, I was going to say Leesh is, I don't know know if he I don't know if it's because a lack of confidence But he was thirsty for the bump this week. I ran into him more like yeah If you want to if you want to chat on the podcast before we go out there I was like why don't you go win it and then we'll do it but and like looking back at it I was like he just wants the podcast bump. I could be it could be a it could be a good norin week also. It could be very much so. Um I think Randy's grimacing at that idea. You don't want him winning the US American Open. No, I don't know. I just don't feel it's a norin week. Okay. I picked JT before the season started. I'm sticking with that one. I think it's a good fit for him. But again,

let me have says we don't know. Let me know the greatest player of all time is going to be bucking his head a lot lately too. He's coming. He's going to say, try and go on with Justin Rose. No, I just like my hair. No, I just, I'm trying to slow play. I don't want to jinx DJ. I don't want to, you know, leaves me wanting. I got leech for car news tea. That's the one I had just tea that for him. I think it makes

a lot of sense. And then Rory and Fleetwood are sharing the title in St. Louis. Okay, the PGA. Yeah. A lot of major winners this year. What did you guys think of? Let me ask you this. If it is a quintessential US open, who are two or three guys that kind of fit that profile of a Riteef goose and somebody that's Rowe's Like that was the first thought I had A Gruden grinder. Yeah, yeah It was a good Ricky week

And again, I just love it enough for really? Yeah, foot Randy at his back foot Who else Paul Casey? Can see see him being in that profile. You know who I think would be a I be way in on him contending in New York Poulter. Yeah, that'd be fun. And that would be rich. That would be just thick. Rich and compelling. Yeah. What did you guys think of Ritefcusen not getting a special exemption from this? What's the what's possibleose and not getting a special exemption from this. Just grace. What's the possible reasoning behind not getting it?

There's got to be something there. Did he get one? I thought he got one in 2016. You can get multiple. I mean, I think winning. Yeah, I can. Winning two US opens might. Probably didn't run it.

One and run it back that quickly with him. I think everyone probably forgot that he won, too. Yeah. Including like the USJ might have been like, oh, shitty. One, two of these things? Oh, gosh. They're trying to just. They're one. They don't count. Oh, for. Forgiven. Forgetto. Four. Yeah. One I acknowledge it. Just delete it from the history. That has an asterisk in USGA history. Well, so who else has has gotten special exemptions? Hey, everyone won the US Open on a special exemption. Did he really? 1990. Whoa. Never knew that. It's the first time I'm here, you know, there you have it.

All right, here's a couple names that have gotten special exemptions. If you guys are ready. Ben Hogan. Who's he? Sam Sneed. He was the club maker guy. Sam Sneed.

Arnold Palmer. Aseo Aoki. Arnie Wood. Scott for Plank. In 1986. Scott for Plank. In 86. He finished T15.

No. But according to USGA. He had the amateurs so he might have been an amateur. Oh, I bet he won That was when he won as on tours in Amateur and I bet that's why okay David is she don't know who that is Hail Irwin 1990 confirmed Tron teaching first Jack Nicholas Jack Nicholas Arnold Palmer, Jack got a lot of special exemptions. Well, that's, I think, I would think they'd be wanting to normalize it because we're going to have to start giving cat exemptions next year. Jack got seven special exemptions. That's a lot. And his best finish on one was T27. Think of the guys that could have got that spot.

Think of the guys that could have got that spot. Oh no, I take that back. He got even more. He got one in 2002. Oh that was a pebble, that's why. There were like five of them in tooth, sorry, to commandeer this with just reading things off the internet here, but 2000, all these people got special exemptions. Aaron Battley, Michael Campbell, Jack Nicholas, Greg Norman, Curtis Strange and Tom Watson. Why? Sick. people got special exemptions air in badly michael cambell jack nickless greg norman courtesy and tom watson why

so i mean what's it's a nickless you know yeah and there's any the list goes on from there watson hailer when raman floyd got one in two thousand four at shinnokok uh... riteef kooz and got one in twenty sixteen alright maybe maybe they told them like i do you want to use your special exemption this year because we're only going to give you one? I don't know. I think it's fine. I think getting one is more than fair. I just don't understand.

Elves and Fury, they gave both of them an exemption this year. Why not, Reteaf? Like I understand if you don't want to give any, if you don't want to feel to be too big or anything like that, but if you're going to give two guys that have won previous US opens, Ernie's won two, Reteaf won at this course, doesn't make sense. It's fair question. To disgrace. We haven't mentioned the cat. What do you have to say? Well, is he gonna, will he make the cat?

I think so. I'm still worried about the accuracy of the tea. I mean, when cat misses, he misses badly. And I think some of the courses he does well at are the courses that you can miss so badly that you're like far enough right that you actually have a shot. And at Shinnecock, if you're missing, you're going to be in the Fescue every single time. And there's no like, go way right. Go way right. I'm actually worse out. I'm a little bit disappointed. I'm just going through here

on Wikipedia. I'm a little bit disappointed when Kat'm just going through here on Wikipedia. I'm a little bit disappointed when cats us open record He's only one of three times. Oh, yeah, I'm glad Major. He's one. I kind of attributed him more us open title I got a funny feeling. I think I think things are aligned in for the cat He's I'm not saying he's gonna win. We see Kevin. I think he's gonna be Top 10 can we talk about how it's been 10 years since he won a major? It's a lot of years. Oh, I'm a broken leg. Can you, like, can you believe that sentence?

You guys won a major in a decade? I can barely drink the last time you won a major. I'm trying to think what I would legally do. Is there any way of a dark horse? Can we talk dark horse? Cat? Bryson is kind of a good dark horse. He's not a dark horse.

He's 35 to one. The general public. That's a disgrace. I'll get that one. I got to take out of here. Kyle F. Instantly. Yeah. I think he could work out this week. I really do. I think it's going to be a ball striking, the heavy emphasis on ball striking and the guy is going to be this closest closest to the hole after two shots at this open is going to make biggest difference. It's can't lay a, uh, it's can't lay a dark horse. I think that works. He's going to is gonna be this closest to the hole after two shots at this open is gonna make biggest difference. It's can't lay a dark horse. I think that works.

He's gonna get ejected by the New York crowds. If you think, no. I think we're gonna see Sergio 2.0. Yeah, for sure. This isn't like Beth Page crowds though, at Shinnecock, right? This is like the great gasping crowd. I mean, it's not like they just erect some wall. No, I know, it's not the same.

Beth Page is, I don't know. I don't remember O4 being that, anything like O2 and O9. But the part of it is when you're in tight with like the corridor of the Beth Page, you know, people are kind of versus things are out in the open at Shinnah. I'm nervous for Patrick.

Yeah. He should be nervous. I mean, it's he and Jimmy Walker should be nervous. Oh, man, I don't think that your crowd strikes me as the crowd super Amphed up about backstopping, but hey one can hope, right? But the amount of times that can't look at a target when he's standing over the ball It's it's remarkable. I mean, I got to stop clock out when I was at your I didn't want to say anything about it Just because I'm already sick of people just mentioning it every walk of every step he takes. You gotta remember this is shot clock master season Where it is true?

This is true. We're living in a in a post shot clock era. So If can't he isn't contented with out a doubt He's gonna be hearing from the crowd in some capacity. I got two guys. Okay, Francesco Molinari Playing really really well right now. I think he's worth taking a flyer on and Sam Burns 600 to 1. Oh yeah I like that. Do we want to do who's not going to win again because this went so well for the Masters? Did you want to lead us off? Well okay let me reiterate. Okay I'm gonna say Patrick Read doesn't win. He doesn't win the first two majors of the year.

What's he done since the Masters? He's done pretty well I think. He took a little time off, but it's been... Let me remind you guys, the point of this is to pick someone who could win. Correct. But say that they're not going to. He's only played three times since the Masters. Who's not going to win? He plays at Wells Fargo. I don't think. 41st at players, 29th at Memorial. Oh cool man. I Would say Rory won't win. Okay. I'll say big cat All right, God now I'm thinking speed might win he might win actually You know kind of shocking that we haven't mentioned him. Oh wait wait wait. I'm not sure

Jason Day will not win. Okay. That's, that's safe. He might. He might. Yeah. All right. These are good. These are a lot of guys that might win. All right. We're on the record. You heard it first. So, all right. We're going to be doing live shows here from the Kill House. Uh, at least Thursday through Sunday. We're going to try to get one out Wednesday evening as well. Uh, unsure on that as of this moment. But we need comp passes or fuck yeah. We need to fix our up a speed has got got some issues here dropping if you're listening to this it's coming out Tuesday today is the first episode of Taurus sauce our series about our trip down to Australia that has been a lot of time in the editing bay for us so we would appreciate if you guys

would swing by the YouTube channel check that out this is the dream of DJ Pie this this series and it's coming to life. And hopefully one episode a week for the next eight weeks. It's all right. Swing by the YouTube channel. And subscribe. Yes. Big shout out to our editor, Matt.

Matt Golden. We brought his head. We bucked his head hard on getting the series ready and got Golden Boyd. Couldn't have done it without the Golden Child. Shout out to the folks at BMW for the support on this project and it's, it's, we got, hopefully, a lot more seasons of this to come, but it's a lot, it was a big, it was a lot to take in for a first time going around it.

We learned a lot in the process, but we had a little fun too. We had a little fun along the way, but we're pretty proud of the, of the final product. So, swing on by, check that out. And in the meantime, we'll be checking in with you guys later this week crack on The right club beat a right club today That's better than most That is better than most. How about in? That is better than most. Better than most.