No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 15: Kevin Van Valkenburg

Episode Date: March 24, 2015

ESPN and ESPN The Magazine writer, and Sports Illustrated’s NFL (co) Media Person of the Year Kevin Van Valkenburg stops by to break down Tiger, the Masters, Phil, Rory, and of course, Todd Hamilton. We chatted... The post NLU Podcast, Episode 15: Kevin Van Valkenburg appeared first on No Laying Up. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Music Be the right club today! Yes! That is better than most! How about him? That is better than most! Better than most! Alright, welcome back everybody to the No-Langup podcast. I'm Chris Solomon and I apologize in advance if I am coughing or sneezing into the microphone a little bit under the weather

from a big weekend, but we have a special guest on the show for the first time. I've been wanting to do this for a while. He's a senior writer for me, ESPN, and ESPN The Magazine, and one of sports illustrators, co-media persons of the year, Kevin Van Volkenberg, Kevin, do you have your flame retardant suit and oven mitts on and are you ready to talk some Tiger Woods? I am, I'm so ready to talk some

smoke and hot Tiger takes today. Well, the big, big news today that Nike came out with his scripting for the Masters. Is there a telltale sign underneath all of this? All of the tweets about what Tiger Woods is going to wear in two weeks. You would think so that they would want to coordinate this all together, but I can't, you know, if Tigers walk around in, you know, his home sort of spot there in Florida and chunking chip still, I can't imagine that he gets on the plane and heads over to Augusta just to embarrass himself. It would be so uncomfortable. Like, I've never been like a huge Tiger guy, but I'm starting to feel like really kind

of sad watching this and I know this is how a lot of athletic careers end and I think that's what people don't quite understand is like this is this is how most great athletes kind of end up going out but it just happens so quickly and it's so awkward for everyone who loves golf to watch this I'm not sure you're right I don't think it's we're even talking about it because we're in denial. We're just really in denial. What's happening? But the thing is about golf is this doesn't really happen in golf. This is the one sport where you can kind of basically play forever. And I mean, like you can play into your 60s on the Champions tour if you really want to. Like, and I mean, Phil Michaels since five years older than Tiger and

Rended Phil's faded in the last couple years, but his game hasn't completely disappeared. Like this isn't a normal thing to happen in your late 30s to have your game go completely off the rocker like this, especially when you're the best player to ever play the game. I think, you know, there's a hundred theories that you could sort of do about this, but I really believe that the burden of carrying the game for so long finally just kind of broke him. Like, there's, you know, it's, this all this started really not so much with the firehead, with like his dad passing away, and that sort of knocked him off kilter. I mean, this is like all like sitting in a leather couch psychology stuff, so who knows what's true.

But everything kind of slowly started unraveling. The pressures were greater and obviously like he was looking for other outlets to sort of deal with some of that. And one of the things I think is really kind of it's a paradox is we all want Tiger to play well again. But for the people who are financially invested in it, like the golf channel, every time he comes back, it's such a huge, like, I think Tiger could win,

I can't get in the contention and win the tournament. It's you know, when we saw him look terrible at the hero world challenge, whatever. And and all the sudden people like, Oh yeah, no, he'll be fine. It's it's nothing. He's he's gonna make this ha he's a little we fine. And I think that every time that happens, every time there's another comeback, it just sort of ratchets up the pressure again. And because he was so immune to pressure for so many years, we think like, I, he can deal with it, but really like you get out there and I think that the circuits in his brain are just overwhelmed right now. I'm just like, I can't deal with having to carry this sport anymore. It's just not possible for me. I don't see the same motivation from him.

And maybe you're right about saying that maybe this is just warn him all this for all all these years all the press conferences speculation on every single aspect that thing in his life Getting so exposed with the scandal Hank Haney's book injury after injury, it just I mean when the last time you heard him really Make sense talking about his golf game or talking about the state of his health or I mean he uses all these buzzwords is you know trying to get my my release patterns and my trege and my start line and so my but like we we never really got a real honest assessment of what he thinks of his game and I mean that's why I tweeted something today it's like well he's I don't think he is he's not hurt

right now and we're wondering if he's going to play in the biggest golf tournament of the year in two weeks, or if he's going to choose to play in this. I mean, I agree with you. I don't think I see no reason for him to go and embarrass himself if his chipping is still like it is. Yeah. You know, geniuses tinker. Like that's what they do.

They never, part of the nature of geniuses that you can't just sort of accept things how they are. And so, you know, one of the things I think is fascinating about Nicholson is that he's managed to sort of deal with not getting bored or not getting overwhelmed by this constant reinvention that didn't have really anything to do with his swing. It's like, okay, this year, like, I'm gonna hit two drivers. And wait, this year, I'm gonna hit it just a two-wood. This year, I'm gonna be like, stat-substance. Like, this year, I'm playing hit it just a two wood. This year I'm gonna be like stat success.

Like this year I'm playing a new ball and it's just so revolutionary to me. This year I'm gonna be just the family man, you know. I'm gonna play in so many terms because my family's the most important thing. Like, Nicholson constantly convinces himself that he's like a chameleon, that he's someone else. And Tiger on the other hand did that like with his swing.

It was like, okay, you know what? I might have basically hit, you know, 75% of green's regulation with my swing in 2000, but I don't really like when Butch kind of yaks it up on the range and it's sort of annoying to me. And so I want to go and do something totally different and kind of own my swing, my monormon, you know, of all the weird things to sort of say. That was one of the weirdest. And so I think he kept just messing with it and kept sort of thinking like, you know, if you're an artist, like, so you're a musician and you tinker with stuff and you do kind of weird avant-garde things, that's like kind of a normal part of it because no one cares if

you make bad music, like you always sort of can return to like the old hits that used to play. But if you're a golfer and you start to kind of rewire the things in your brain, like at some point you just kind of got lost. And that's why I think that it's sort of shone up now in shipping, which is the most sort of artistic part of the games. It's like the neurons in his brain are just sort of, they can't remember what swing they're trying to do with. And that's what makes it sort of kind of heartbreaking.

He's tried to make, I feel like over the years, along those same lines what you're saying, over the years he's become more and more robotic with his swing. I think he would even say that. So it's not that, I guess, surprising that, like you're saying, part of the art of chipping and the touch of chipping seems to have be completely lost on him right now.

I don't know if he's thinking so completely fundamental when he's standing over a chip that he's lost his instincts or, I mean, I've said this on like three podcasts in a row now but I just like I honestly don't think enough it's not been made a big enough deal to this chipping thing because I've never seen a five-handy cap or better golfer go through a I spell like this with chipping I've never and much less tiger woods. There's a part of me that like you you were talking with

Porter last week about how you want you know you'd love to see the old tiger come back and you know play the masters I would think it would be fascinating to see like the current tiger like scraping claws way around and like chip with a For iron and somehow being a contingent and aggressive like completely and totally impulsible but like like the equivalent of like Jordan's old man like triple pump fake Jumpers, all right, I'm just gonna basically like put a bandaid on this and somehow, like I'm gonna shoot 71, 71, 68 with a, you know, chipping with a forearm. Well, where do you stand?

I mean, do you think he teased it up at a gust? Official prediction. I'm gonna say no. I really actually don't think so. And I totally agree. I just think that the psychological damage that he could do to himself, shooting, you know, 83 there would set him back another six months almost.

I mean, I think, you know, it's almost more realistic to think like, okay, I'm just gonna keep sort of grindin' and keep playing these rounds at medalists or whatever. And then I'll show up, you know, at St. Andrews, where, you know, I can sort of, the chipping is a little, it's not quite as demanding there, you can kind of hit it a little bit wild and I just think that I just think he's going to say,

like, I'm just not ready, I just can't deal with it and it's going to be like a huge earthquake for a few days through everything and hopefully Rory will shoot 65 the first day to wipe it out on everyone's mind. That's why I can't picture it. It's like, look at how much we're analyzing Rory's current game and I don't have his recent results in front of me, but I think I saw Pete's on golf.com. It was like, Henry Extensen looks ready for the Masters, but Rory McAroy sure doesn't. I think Rackwore finished like T12. Yeah, like T10 and T15 I think here is too. And this is coming off.

Yeah. He had a, a torrid winter on the European tour. And you guys, his, it hasn't been an ideal start for him on the US tour this year, but it's like, he's just barely slipped from like a couple months ago. He was absolutely on top of the world. And we're doubting his chances for Augusta. Look at where Tigers current chances are for Augusta. What is going to make him want to suit up?

I mean honestly he always says like, wow I would never suit up unless I was gonna win but like This is so far from being able to win. I can't see his motivation for wanting to go out there and play. I really can't. I can't either. I mean maybe he just was kind of remember you know 2010 whatever when he After this candle when he's game, I mean, if you read any book, like he was in total disarray, and then all of a sudden he's scraped it around there, and you know, kind of at least was, I think he finished top five, which is number four.

Yeah, he finished top four after that. But, you know, that, that, some of that was just like knowing, you know, where to miss. And now he doesn't know that anymore. Of course, he's gonna have to hit chip shots because he's got a two-way miss going and he can't drive ball that well and he can't really save himself from the putter. It's painful and I just don't know like, he said it basically, I don't know if you saw

the golf digest speak but he flat out said, you know, like, it's the yips, like, come on, let's be realistic about this. It's not, the an injury that's ridiculous and it's I'm surprised at how few people you know other than you know, Brindle or ever kind of kind of say like look this is really bad this is not something that just kind of goes away it seems like there are afraid of the kind of old tiger you never said anything kind of negative of him because he's so controlled the sport basically and had so much power within it that you ran the great risk of kind of you know writing your own ticket out of the game if you offended him

and so people are still kind of playing by those rules but gosh I you know I mean that like I know that Brown could be sort of you know controversial and then a lot of people do not like him but I sort of admire at least that he's willing to kind of say like look this is as bad as you think it might be you're just not willing to kind of come on say it yeah I I was gonna say I agree with you that at least there's a person in the media or a person you know that is willing to take a stance and opinion against Tiger but what I want to know is can we get can somebody get on the trail and ask Jack Nichols

what his opinion is on this matter? Cause I don't, I, what do people expect Nichols to say at this point? Yeah, he's done. He's never gonna touch my record. I'm afraid he's probably screwed. It's over. It's over.

I'm in a big poppin' champagne tonight. They check in with him every month. Did you see? And then yeah, asking Phil about it every time. Do you expect Phil to be like, yeah, he's never, he's never going to figure this out. He's done. I, and silly.

It's crazy. Well, it's such a long sort of thing. You just say never, like, you know, it's like, you could take three years and sort of, you know, mess it up. And then somehow, like, you know, the-year-old Butch Harman's like, okay, let's go back and just start from the beginning and like, he kind of finds something.

That's, you know, like how long has Fred Couples been sort of competitive every now and then at the Masters? Like, it's still, you could, you could easily see a 43-year-old Tiger Woods having been kind of irrelevant for two, three years, finding it for three weeks and playing really well at Augusta. Yeah, I've always stuck with, like he's going to be fine, he's going to be fine, he's going to be fine, it's Tiger Woods, like, and you know, with him turning it around and when he did in 2012 and 2013, I mean, he was back to being basically the best ball striker

in the game. His putting wasn't this quite the same as it was in his dominant age and his ball striking wasn't as dominant but it's like he had it back. I mean, it's a way different way of going about it with the fully swing and you know his overall style of play was much more target oriented than it was you know his creative bombing shaping style but it was like he was there. He was the best and he was going to be fine until the injury happened last year and I mean man it's he's going to fall outside the top He was the best and he was gonna be fine until the injury happened last year And I mean man It's he's gonna fall outside the top 1000 in the world if he doesn't play again this year like that's insane to think about

That isn't saying I mean that's truly like I don't put a lot of stock and the ranking stuff because I guess as long as you're I mean other than the world golf championships like he could get you know exemptions to or yeah to in the World Golf Championships, like he could get, you know, exemptions to, or, yeah, to find what he would want to play, but good gosh. I mean, that's, he's going to run out of exemption at the US Open and in like three or four years, granted, but like, he literally will, great, he's never going to line up at US Open qualifying, but he like, literally could be not have a US Open golfing spot and PGA spot. I think it's PGA so I think that's why I actually look this up because PGA will grant special light on the other three. But I sort of admire that the US Open is so brutal and that they're like,

nope, like you either got a qualifier, you got to be an already set of in. It's 10 years and you are done. I'm surprised that I'll make you give a trophy back. If you don't, we're here for the Pebble, the Pebble trophy. Tiger, you just missed the cut at the last. You was opened by 15 shots. Your 15 shot victory has been wiped out. Hey, it's golf, you know, it's fair. It's what it's fair. It's fair. I mean, so I'm not only doing, I don't think he he's gonna play, I don't want him to. I don't want to do the circus, I don't want this media mockery of, you know, sitting and waiting in his parking spot and hanging on every live tweeting practice rounds. And I mean, I rolled my eyes when I first saw the headline when I saw somebody say, like, well, Tiger being at a gust to help mitigate the pressure for Rory.

I kind of rolled my eyes at first and that sort of thing about. I was like, it really might, you know? I mean, like, Rory will be the center of attention if Tigers not there, and we know Tigers going to take a lot of that attention away if he does show up. You know what's remarkable? I was talking about this a little bit earlier, is that I walked four rounds with Mikkelsen the last year at Pinehurst. And it actually made me have a whole new appreciation for Tiger because Phil is so like unable to like basically like live in the tunnel that Tiger lived in for 15 years and that we're Tiger you know it used to kind of annoy me like why doesn't he ever like acknowledge anybody it sort of says you know hey you know why doesn't he kind of give a ball to some kid in the stands, whatever, that,

that, Mickelson has to do that every single hole. Like, he can't, someone says, you know, hey, but let's go and he's got to, you know, give him the, the build up, it sums up, you know, he's got to tip his cap. And he, he looks at you when he does it, too. He looks at you. And that's a very human thing. Like, I think that there's, it's sort of like, an impressive that Mickelson does that

because it, it's what sort of an impressive that Michelson does that because it's what sort of has formed a connection for him with a lot of people, but it's, I don't know that it's conducive to great golf, to be, you know, to playing these really important rounds in the tournament, you want to win more than anything in the world, and yet you're walking up the thing and people are saying, singing Happy Birthday to you and you're sort of smiling and acknowledging and tipping your cap 50 times a hole. Tiger would just be like, I would play if there were no people here or I would play if the fairways were overflowing with people from those fans. No, you're exactly right. I mean, that matters to Phil. Phil wants to be loved. He wants

to be remembered. He wants to be loved. And back to what you were saying about him, always tinkering and always talking about his tinkering. I've always said, Phil wants to be remembered, he wants to be loved, and back to what you were saying about him, always tinkering, and always talking about his tinkering. I've always said, Phil wants to make sure you know he's the smartest guy in the room, right? He can't just invoke a strategy, he's got to talk about it, he wants, he's got to do an excruciating detail to show you how much thought he's put into it. But it does amaze me. I mean, my, I have a, basically a close family friend who went to college with Phil, and I was back in college, and I think I was sitting by in the green at the

memorial, and I actually, you know, long story short, played in a wedding, played golf in a wedding with one of Phil's roommates in college. And they'd also played on the golf team, and I told Phil's walking walking by and I just said to him, like, hey Phil, I beat So-and-So at So-and-So's wedding a couple months ago. And he just like, he's like, beep. He just like looked right up at me, started laughing, and started talking to me.

And he's like, oh yeah, House So-and-So's business still in bubble. I mean, he talked to me for like five minutes there. Like, while he signed autographs, I mean, and looked me in the eye, with everything that he said, I was like, who would do that? I mean, he wasn't faking it. There was no cameras around, like, I mean, there's a lot of people around, but like that, that is honestly like who he is, like, 100% of the time. And Tiger couldn't be wired any differently, but I think it's kind of, I don't, I, I wasn't around for the Jack

Arnie era, but I think there's got to be at least a little bit of similarity there. I don't think Jack Jack is the the dick that tiger is but I Mean Arnie was this beloved guy. I mean more so than Phil is I think but I have well I've always found the the Arnie Jack Phil tiger comparisons to be to be really interesting I think there's a lot of similarities there. Like, Phil hasn't gotten the career grants slam. Arnie never got it. He just obviously never won as much as Jack did and Phil's not won as much as Tiger has,

but made a lot of money in endorsements. It's pretty interesting. I mean, to have that kind of rival, I guess, 30 years apart. I mean, it's, I don't think that's necessarily a normal thing in a sport like this. The warmth that we sort of feel now is as a golf kind of, you know, lovers of towards Nicholas is not something that a lot of people felt like when he first came on the scene, like they resented him and sort of thought that he was this fat kid It was very fat jack old to people and that Arnie was you know was such a more like kind of blue collar kind of guy

And like you look at pictures of like of Palmer back then it was just such a cool looking dude Like it's just rocking these like sweaters that like if the fact I showed up at your course now You'd be like oh my god this guy this guy is sweet. So much swag. He's still, you know, a cigarette kind of hanging out of his mouth and he's crushing a, you know, a person in me and driver 310 yards. Anyway, back to Mikkelsen. I wanted to tell you like this, my favorite Mikkelsen story about him like wanting to be the smartest guy there. He talked about this because I opened this here.

At the first, he was open at Beth Page, after the first round, I don't know how much this story has been circulated, but he decided that he was not hitting the ball as far as he wanted to. He felt like he needed to have more distance. And so he changed irons, like from the first to the second round, to irons, not irons that go, you swapped out like a three iron for like another wedge, but you changed irons to different lofts. And so, and he said that bones like couldn't believe it, because they couldn't figure out the yardage on the course. How hard, how far do you hit a seven right?

Well, I hit the other one, you know, 175, but this one's if it's two degrees stronger loft. It's like, in the middle of the biggest tournament of your life, you're overthinking this to 175 but this one's if it's too big or stronger loft In the middle of the biggest tournament of your life you're overthinking this to the point where you're changing the lofty Or sever and he was like he's talking about this. He's like, yeah, it's kind of one of the dumbest things ever Braver bones It just the only thing is constant like I'm gonna do the claw now like up No, I'm gonna switch to the claw halfway out of the round. Like, oh, I've this forward press thing that I have going on. Is this, he's just, he's level because he's so

represents like every golfer's it. Like, yeah, this is what I'm gonna do today. Like, I've figured it out. And I'm never, this is never abandoned me. I'm kind of the same way though. Like, I always have to be, have some new swing thought. Whether it be with putting or swinging or something. I have to have like something new that I'm doing.

I don't practice enough to like keep things constant, but like I think Phil practices golf enough to really have this kind of stuff nailed down, especially yeah, out equipment. I mean, he goes to the courses like two weeks in advance sometimes to prepare for these courses. You would have had his distances dialed, but by the way. I'm curious as to what we'll see from him this year. I mean, he's really been sort of shuffling a bit, a little bit this year, but this course

just plays so well into a lot of his strengths that you know, you could see him, I mean, last year was really surprising to see him miss the cut, which is in the end also made to the PGA at the end of year. So impressive because he was just garbage all year. But like he's just, he's been in the top 10 so many times there and probably should have wanted the year that Bubba won.

He could have saved you from Bubba being a two time green giant winner. If he hadn't hit that ball on three, like down four. Yeah, but he got backwards. Or put brush, I mean like, even if he had somehow like taking a drop there, like he four. Yeah, we got backwards. Or foot brush. I mean, like, even if he had somehow, like, taken a drop there, like, he'd have were likely, you know, and it'll take him six. Oh.

Don't remind me of that. And then, yeah, yeah. I've been trying to talk myself into Phil, but I mean, I mean, your right dog, I just pulled it up while you're talking. He went from 99 to 2010. He finished outside the top 10 once in 2007. He won three of them.

I mean, I've always been saying this a lot recently. I've been telling my other no-lang up guys and some of the other golf guys I talked to. That 2004 Masters, I mean, I know it's remembered highly in golf history. I don't think it gets enough credit. Phil Miggleson shot 31 on the back nine at Augusta, birdied the last hole to win by one over Ernie L's. It's the winner's first major. It's my favorite masters ever. I mean, it's you know what? He's always been the guy who I've sort of just related to and cheered for and stuff. And like I remember just like standing on my couch, like screaming as he kind of made birdies on,

you know, on 15 and then 16. And I think he part 17 and then birdie 18. Like I was just, I was so convinced in my mind, like midway through the round that he was gonna blow it again and else, you know, shot, I think a really good score. I think 66 or something that day and look like. And also produced one of my favorite quotes ever, was they asked Ernie after I've been filming that birdie, how did you feel about, you know, not getting no playoff?

And he said, well, I was feeling pretty upset about it, but after about 6 to 7 B, I was still to feel a betta. On the spots out African accent there, I did not see that coming. That's pretty good. Well, thank you. I worked hard at my South African accent. But you were right, so yeah, back nine, 2004. So Micklesson went out in 38. Bertie, Bertie 12, 13, 14, 16, and 18 to win the Masters by one.

Kind of an unbelievable back nine. That in Nicholas's back nine to, I mean I maybe Schwar I maybe shortsals the four straight birdies at the end there I don't even really want to remember speaking of South Africans after I just complimented one I'm gonna disparage another but I don't really want to remember that Masters at all because it was hard to believe that a master's could end with four straight birdies and Everyone can be like yeah, interest in even discussing that. Remembering that. Yeah, we're all, I mean, with Jason Day, Adam Scott all there, I think Phil was in that one too.

And I think it wasn't that one, I think. Tiger was, yeah, that's the one he where he hit that five iron on 15 to about five feet for Eagle and then missed the putt. And I thought he was going to win when he hit that five iron. He's missed some like Eagle putts on the back nine, and it gots to in the last. Like, if he could have putted a little bit better, I think he would have won two more green jackets because his something's ball striking was great.

But he just, he would miss a guy. Like, the year, one of the years Phil won, I think 2006, Tiger was right in it and missed two eagle putts that he had hit to maybe five feet. I think I'm not, the preacher I'm not making this up. I know that one of the years it was like he could have put pressure on fill. Didn't and then so Phil was just like hey Frankoffel's like let's have a stroll in the park and I'll just cruise to this. You're safe. No one's gonna look this up. You're safe. You can just make stuff up. I've always said, I've said on this podcast before

that I think the 2001 Masters is one of the most underrated Masters in history. I don't know why it doesn't really roll off the tongue when people talk about the best Masters. This was Tiger at his peak, Duval at his peak, Phil, not quite yet I guess at his peak. But I mean, Tiger ended up winning it by two, but that was one, two, three. Tiger, Duval, Phil. And I think Duval had the lead on the back nine at one point. Yeah, I think I want to say so they came to 16 and I want to say that they were tied and Duval just smoked like an eight iron like over the green. Like when he hit it he was like he thought it was like hit P and I but it like his adrenaline was pumped so pumped up that he like flew the thing and I just remember that like the stone cold

look of horror on his face that he was Like letting it sort of slip away. That was a great example of how Tiger just kind of could play Sundays and never make mistakes and everyone around him would sort of implode It just would work out in his favor But yeah, he knew he do all shot 67 that day He played kind of hard to knock a guy shoot 67 But I love I just put up the Wikipedia page for that what I love love about the 2001 Masters, it goes Tiger Woods, David DuVall, Phil Mikkelsen, Toshu Mitsu Izawa, finished tie for fourth with Erdi Elz and Mark Kalkovakia.

Well, I think that means that Poppy Bonrad is going to finish like fourth or fifth this year. We're going to get like a totally random, you know That who's the guy who's in the the plough of the year that we're one it like that was Limities. Yeah, and Ken. Oh, it's a Kenny Perry in that too. No, I don't think Chad Campbell Chad Campbell We almost had some really random masters winners. Oh, man. Dude Oh, well, other than Phil winning the Masters in O4, the O3, O4 era of major winners, it gets pretty dicey. Mike Weir, one of our guys, one of our guys made the point last year, so the filler Todd said, just like a Tuesday night of the

Masters week, Mike Weir gets the dying of the Champions dinner while Lin Matisse was like playing a qualifier for a web.com event or something like that. Like one shot, like one shot made the difference in that. Like it's absolutely, it's crazy. But so yeah, O3, Mike Weir, then Furek won the US Open. I mean, it's only major title. I'll give that one to Furek. Okay. Ben Curtis won the British Open, Sean McKeill won the PGA Championship. Thankfully we had Phil won the O4 Masters, Ritekus won the O4 US Open and then Todd Hamilton won the O4 PGA or British Open. That was a rough stretch of golf. I mean that was when Tiger, I mean Tiger should have been able to dominate during those two years

I wonder if we'll ever see another major winner like Todd Hampton It was like hitting hybrids into greens Like utility clubs when I remember that you like elves is hitting like Nine iron and and Hamilton's like back like the 240 yards out and like hitting it to you know, two putting for with a hybrid. Cut to a shot of Zach Johnson like, hey, I could still win a major. I see a great story. Trevor Lennon is 300 to one.

If you're you know, looking to take a good feeling flyer on that. I think I'm good. I think I'm good for now. I made bet on, I made bet on market element before I bet on Trevor in the Masters again. I was looking at the futures of seeing like,

who is the most realistic like 300 to one, 500 to one long shot? You can get Kevin Sather at 500 to one. Like the, the fact that Kevin Sather could never, ever put that well to sort of, but it's in his bloodlines, right? Like he's one tournaments before. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, the big guns show out of the Master's.

That, it separates them in from the boys But I've a great actual Todd Hamilton story I bet you probably don't know too many people that have good Todd Hamilton stories, but we Me and actually this is way before we started the website but me fill and Todd the other Some of the other no-lang up guys every year we went to the more we would go to the memorial tournament during college We both went to we all went to Miami University. They would come up for the summer. We'd spend the week We would just hang out drink party and go to the memorial tournament every every day. It was awesome every summer and we went out at night and I think it was during the NBA playoffs at the time and LeBron went off for some ridiculous

night. My buddy either invented this shot or had heard of this shot before. It was a terrible shot. It was a gold slug or wine and something yager or something mixed. It's disgusting. It is. We run into Todd Hamilton at the bar and we got We got him a LeBron shot and

He took it and he's like that's nasty and we don't we took one with him obviously I'm just like that's nasty and my and Todd's like that's the point. That's why it's the LeBron shot He was like not abused at all. That's like you first of all, the best thing about that story is that you're probably like in the 0.5% of people in the world who would recognize something. Like, enough to be like, hey, former British open with Tom Hamilton. Can we buy you a terrible shot? But we end up shooting pool with him for like hours. And I think he ended up beating me if I remember right. And we went out to follow him some the next day.

And like he said what up to us, he recognized us. And he's coming off like the ninth green. And he walks up and there's kids that are waiting for balls and autographs or whatnot. And like eight-year-old kids, can I start? Can I have your ball? And Hamilton's like, I have a riddle for you. And I don't remember what the riddle was, but like, he just like quizzed this kid.

And whatever it was, the kid got it wrong at the very end. And Hamilton just goes, nope! And walked! That's cold blood! And walked away. He walked right by us. He didn't like say, I think it was his last hole today. Walked right by us didn't say anything else to us. And just kept walking. And we're all, can you tell, like, did he seriously just ice that eight-year-old kid? Because he couldn't figure out his, his, his, limbic or whatever.

We blamed it on the LeBron shot that we got. I had to, I had to have an influence on him. Anytime you, you mix gold slugger and wine. I'm just, I literally just named three random alcoholic drinks. I don't remember what it was, but it was something that should not be mixed together at all. But, so, I, like, the next year, I ran into him at the tournament and I was like, are we gonna have a rematch tonight? He named, he's like, Martino's, he named the bar. He remembered it from the year before.

I didn't end up going, I'm sure he was heartbroken that I didn't end up making it. So, one of my friends, we had a guy come live with us who was like a foreign exchange student from Northern Ireland when I was in high school. And he's a loiter than me. And like, no, I'm all that well. But he's sort of got to got to be close to the family, whatever.

He's the proprietor based, he's like a general manager of this really swank hotel in Belfast. He told me this great story about how after Rory won the US Open, people line up all day to get into this bar like night Like start lining up like hours in advance Whatever and like he was sort of walking up the line just kind of making sure and like Rory was standing in there And he kind of went up to him was like hey, you know Rory They're like why don't we come up here and we'll come to the VIP line and Rory was like no, I'm good I I think I should just wait in line like that's you know That's the fair thing to do and I was like wow like in terms of like drinking stories like that's remarkably like sort of nice of Roy to just be like no I'm just

wait in line like all the other Northern Ireland there's that's interesting it's kind of redeeming yeah story for a for Roy I wouldn't have pictured that for Roy I don't know why I feel like he seems and I don't have anything to base this on you can you can classify this as a firey take but I feel like he kind of seems to like the celebrity lifestyle and getting pictures with LeBron and Tom Brady and whatnot so that's refreshing to hear. I think he's both I think he's both that I think that's an accurate reading of them but I think he's also like oddly human like you know could you imagine like Tiger ever breaking up with his like a fiancé whatever and and then nearly crying in the press conference when Steve Sands is like asking questions about it.

Like, you know, like someone from the golf channel, like that thing where African Caroline broke up and he was like, I don't really want to talk about it, but obviously it's a really difficult thing in my life. Like I sort of felt like, wow, you just did this really cold thing where you broke up with your fiance on the phone, but also like I feel for you because you're up here like kind of owning it and like sort of near tears in front of everyone. There's a lot of rumors about the things we've gone on there, we can't touch with a 10 foot pole. Indeed. I'll be off the air.

Off the air. Yeah, yeah, off the air. I'm sure you've heard the same ones I have, but I have never even whispered them or said it out loud to really anyone just because they're so ridiculous. I mean, there's rumors about there about every golfer and I believe maybe one percent of them, but I believe as much about them as I do,

Robert Allen B. Story from Hawaii this year. So I think his- Robert Allen B. Is Rex Hoggard still in Hawaii reporting on this? I hope so. He's going to be out of it any moment. What happened there? Amazing. Like the Gulf General would have a hoggard camp out there to find that story, but like can't be bothered to basically like run a public record search on the Patrick Reads stuff. That's yeah, that's the point I made in there. I said

Rex hoggard worked so many days in Hawaii this year that he's got to pay he's got to file taxes there yet They're butchering of the Patrick Reed thing and been spent strangely quiet since then they were a little follow-up story on it mentioning Finally mentioning Stephanie Ways reports, but it mentioning Stephanie Ways reports, but it, yeah, a little quiet from the read camp now. I think he's finally, hopefully for his sake, realized that he needs to just keep his mouth shut. What are we gonna see from him, Pedagasta? He's gonna win. He's gonna win the answers. He's gonna tear the sleeves off the jacket. He's gonna get on the back of Billy Paton, get a piggyback ride around the 18th

degree. Isn't it weird to that he's like, I don't know if you feel the same way, but like he's such a can be such a villain, but I can't help but sort of just love his role in the game now. Like he's totally great. And he's got so much game. I don't know, like consistency wise, if he's going to sort of be able to put it together, like in every major, whatever, because last year, I thought they was going on. He kind of wasn't really kind of fizzled in the majors, but he's just, he's fun to watch because he just gives no Fs at all. Just, I feel like a lot of people are like him. And this is a weird way to say it, but like he's the only one that actually truly just

will be himself. Like he's the one that will rip a drive down 18 and just absolutely pim step it and not care what people think about the reaction. Whereas I mean some guys want to do that. Probably they are that have that inner confidence, but they don't want to show people up. But like you said, he just he gives zero fucks and he is going to do what he wants to do. And I think he's finally embracing it. I think when he won the Cadillac and came out and made those comments that showed there.

And but he was kind of put off by everyone's reaction by it. And I mean, he struggled all summer after that. Whatever happened in Scotland, he got it back, and he's got that swagger back. And as soon as he's shushed the crowd in Scotland, I literally went online and I bet on him to win the Masters at 100 to 1. I swear I got it.

I swear to God. I was like, this guy's gonna win the Masters. He's 30 to 1 now. He was 100 to 1 at the time. So I'm feeling, I'm pretty happy about it. And I'm sticking to my guns that he's going to win the Masters this year. He's, I mean, that's exactly what we've been missing the US on the Ryder Cup is that sort of just I'm going to step on your throat kind of attitude.

Like it's why like a middling talent like Polter has sort of been able to kind of carve out a whole career just by basically having that attitude during You know Ryder Cup is sort of shows the difference between why Europe is basically one I mean it's obviously talent is a lot to do with it too. They're overall depth But like if like if he ends I want all young kids on the Ryder Cup for now on like I don't really want any of these old I wish that like love it be like, you know what four guys qualify and I'm gonna pick eight so And I'm basically gonna take these picks on, you know what, four guys qualify, and I'm going to pick eight. So, and I'm going to take these picks on like, you know, on Capka, and I'll take, I'll take care, sing gliss, I'll take, you know, I'll take anybody who's basically willing to go to war with me, and that's it.

Yeah, I think, it's going to be interesting to see how it plays out with Davis Love. I think that he's not the kind of guy that's going to do that. I don't think they're ever going to get his to put his buddy buddy buddy with a lot of these guys. But I think I you know what I wish honestly we could obviously because we just lost. I wish we could line him up and play right now. I think the US would smoke Europe right now. I mean, you look around at like how well the Americans have played since that. Rory, he's still Rory, but I mean, Justin Rose has really quietly been completely absent this year. Graham McDowell, nowhere to be found. I mean, they're not trying to make their games peak in the winter, et cetera,

but I mean, like, I'm not afraid of I would line up I think the US would be favorites on and on any continent if they were put to play tomorrow Oh, too, and pussy you get to you soon. You get to have you know Dustin Johnson for sure and you probably get to take you know horsehole And you know, I suppose you could take Duffner to and so you get to leave home web and you know Jim Furek and you know What's this sort of lame dog set. Yeah, what Reed's gonna play two balls in four balls. He's gonna play two Sunday matches in singles as well.

You're gonna send him off first and last. You just have to complete the, you have to just basically sprint from the 18th over back to the first and tee it up again. I like that. Oh, I'm okay. I wanna get your thoughts on this because I'm looking for somebody to agree with me on this because no one does. But I think the Ryder Cup should be every year.

I don't see any reason. It's one of those things like, if it was already every year, no one would ever change it to every other year. Like the Masters and the Ryder Cup are my two favorite events. Like, imagine if we were like, you know what, we're gonna make the Masters every other year. Like the masters in the right of a couple are my two favorite events. Like imagine if we were like, you know what, we're gonna make the masters

every other year now. I mean, I know a granite's tradition, whatever. And for the five people out here that love the president's cup, like yeah, they kind of get screwed there. But I mean, the fact that it's only on US soil once every four years, like you can't tell me, that's the best way to go about it. It would be super fun. I'm on board. I would love it because it's my favorite event in Sports 2.

I would love the anticipation of it the excitement. You'd get more opportunity for more. It wouldn't be this huge deal of like, we've got to pick a captain and we've got to plan two years out. It would just be like, you know what? We'll just have more guys get the opportunity to kind of feel the sort of experience and the pressure. And if one guy missed it one year, it wouldn't be such a huge tragic deal where we're sort of like all these upset feelings over a guy, you know, not making it.

I'm totally on board. Yeah, I mean, think about like, especially from a casual US fan perspective, like those matches were on at 1 a.m. on the East Coast. So basically, the casual thing gets to watch the Ryder Cup once every four years. Graham McDally made the comment, he wishes he was every three years. I don't understand that at all, I really don't.

I don't either, I like to Mac, but that seems to be kind of crazy to me. I think these guys feel like it takes such an emotional toil on them because it's so different than what they're playing normally and you have to kind of make alliances and friendships with people who you're otherwise trying to kind of step on their necks every other week. So maybe that, maybe we're discounting some of the emotional toil on that or whatever, but good lord, like, J.B. Holmes, I remember how much A.J.B. Holmes kicked him a donut, like he could get our rider up team too.

Like you're told that I would smoke them this time around. Yeah, I mean, he'd be on my team right now, for one up 12 guys, I think. I have a hard time fit in 12 guys in the U.S. team right now, to be honest. When you got guys that get murdered off the tee, always bring them, like always, you know. honest. When you guys are getting murdered off the tee, always bring them. Like always.

Give me, give me blanks off the tee and basically like in those, you know, four ball matches, it's like, that's huge. They set those courses up pretty damn easy too. I mean, they're not, they're not, and there's really nothing special about Glenn Eagle. I mean, you've played it, haven't you? I have not, no. I mean, I'm Sarsen went over and played it this summer. And I mean, it's just, it's a jacknickless design, right?

I mean, it's not like a real Scottish golf course that, you know, favors a certain style of play. I mean, it's just a theater for it. And that's what no one really talks about the golf courses when, you know, you play a writer cup. I think it's actually one of the forget forgettable venues. Totally. I went to the one in Medina. I thought that was actually a great venue. Yeah. I mean Hazelteen, I mean I don't really decide these courses but I want to know. I think it should be, I would love it if it was

always links courses in when it was in Europe and like you know historic parkland courses here in the US. I don't want't want to, like, it's going to France, whatever, in two years. Like, what, you know, I don't know where they play the Paris Open. Like, I don't want to see, like, I just another lame European course that looks kind of like a US course. Like, I want guys basically, like, having to hit, like, knock down seven irons from 140 into holes and be creative and, you know, fun like that. I'm on board.

I'm on board. So who else? Okay, so I think we glossed over Rory's chances at Augusta. But what are you feeling? I mean, he's still the favorite, the odds on favorite. I am not, I don't think he's going to win. Maybe they could be famous last words. I mean, you look at his history, you would think he should play really well at Augusta,

but he just cannot avoid that big number. And I just don't think his game is sharp enough right now. I play this exact part back if he does, if he does win it, and I will own it. But what do you think of his chances? I kind of agree. I think that the sort of all the spotlight is going to be on him, the pressure is going to be so it's going to be, I mean, to be just weird that like he's one two majors in a row and no one's really talking about that fact. It's like oh you know it's the career and say I'm aspect of it as both two are you going to win a third major in a row but I I just think you're right he's going to shoot 74 on you know Tuesday and it's going to be sort of too much

to kind of overcome like his his wedge game is just sort of average right now. And he's, you know, he's always going to be, you know, he's unbelievable like long-earned player. I mean, he obviously can, is just kills it with the driver, but, you know, he just doesn't, his short game isn't great enough to kind of help him, you know, save him when he hits it offline on some days. And, you know, he's kind of,

if you sort of read some of that, too, it's like, well, you know he's kind of if you sort of read some of that to it it's like well you know you kind of just kind of play to your strengths like he's not over there like grindin' away in the bookers like trying to you know improve his you know sand-safe chances like and I think some of that is maybe indicative of like that when he's on like he can really just own a course but he isn't really his weaknesses he kind of just lets them be his weaknesses because he doesn't really want to take away from some of his strengths. So I don't know. Maybe this three-week, two-and-a-half-week break will kind of mentally get him a little

bit of rest, but I don't know. Yeah, I mean, I think, you made a good point there about his about playing to his strengths. And if basically if his drivers not dominating, doesn't win. I mean, that's kind of ridiculous thing to say because it's, I'd make the point time and time again, how hard it is to win. And Tigers really, the only guy that ever is really one events with this be game. But I mean, it's revisionist history to do this because I mean, Rory won the British open, he won the PGA, but like, it wasn't like a done deal. Like, it wasn't like, he had it in hand the whole time.

Like, Sunday at the PGA, he had a low thin three wood from 280 yards that ended up 10 feet away, that he missed hit, he made Eagle, and that turned the tide. Like, if that doesn't happen, I'm not sure he wins that event. I don't think he wins that event. I don't think he wins if I hollown. I mean, Sergio and Fowler were right there on the back nine at Hoi Lake too. Roy never made a mistake. I mean, he played perfect golf. Sergio made several mistakes and so did Fowler, but I actually don't remember Fowler making mistakes in particular.

But I mean, it was closed. So it's not like that He's been this dominant dominant guy. I grabbed a win back to back majors is extremely difficult to do But I mean, it's got to go really really well for him to win the masters I don't think people should expect him to win the masters. I don't think so either and you know just go back to the pga It's it's amazing to me that we almost like forget like how close he was hitting that ball in the water off of 18 after the foul in Rickerson. We're like, yeah, I go ahead, you can hit your T-shot, whatever. And the fact that he hit it in the bunker, and I remember looking up a few weeks ago,

just because I was thinking about this, he's like 150th in Sandsink, so whatever. So the idea that he was gonna get up and down to avoid a playoff there is sort of, it was no given at all. We kind of acted like oh yeah Roy was going to win anyway. So why not just play through the darkness or whatever like. God he totally should have you know if we're talking about like legacy should be like no I think I'll tee this up

tomorrow like we can all back and it's not a no worries here. I'm not going to just push this drive into the waterfall. I understand hitting the t-shot and maybe even the second shot before the darkness But you talk about hitting a bunker shot. He had to get it down to three shots, right? You can't tell me on a full night's sleep coming out Freshly-mode greens. They're gonna re-break that bunker for his lie that he couldn't that he didn't have a better chance to come out and And get it in three shots then in the morning at 8 a.m Like the depth perception to hit a bunker shot, too to come out and get it in three shots then in the morning at 8 a.m. Like the depth perception to hit a bunker shot too, I think he kind of chunked it.

I mean, he played it really safe to make sure he didn't blade it. But like he honestly just like wanted to get out of town. We're talking about a major championship. He rushed through winning a major championship. I mean, PGA of America had a lot of blood on their hands for how that played out. It was like one of the great majors in the last, you know, at least five, ten years or whatever, and like almost was a total calamity. Like you saved them from a total second guessing disaster. Like if that happened at a club championship,

like the members would revolt. Like if it was that poorly organized, this happened in the final major championship of the year how much would you have enjoyed to get like a wasted film no close thoughts on that because you can tell in the post game or the post game the interview afterwards that he was trying so hard not to be like angry about it and not to see he was just like yeah well you know whatever um... yeah it's fine it's making difference but you can tell he was seething about the system. Yeah, he knew though

It didn't have an impact on the outcome the only person it really affected and I felt bad for it was foul Or this I mean he had he kind of rushed maybe a what a six five five or six foot put And it cost him $250,000 that guy's not hurting for money His life he did not was not affected by that. I shouldn't feel bad about it. But he got screwed out of a second place finish when he kind of rushed that pun I missed it in the dark. That's the really all the impact it had

in the PGA of America is very lucky and worked out that way. Ricky Fowler's almost too nice sometimes, I think. Like he's such a sort of like warm-hearted, third of person it seems like. He's like, you know, so nice to kids or whatever that I sort of wonder, like, is he have that sort of like kick you

and the nuts kind of thing to sort of finish you off? Yeah, when he came out, and I didn't really, I'm not, especially at the time, I'm not really, I don't follow the college game that closely, and when he came out and he was winning the moral tournament in 2010, like this is my home tournament, like this is the tournament that I know, and he's out there he was winning the moral tournament in 2010 like this is my home tournament like this is this is the tournament that I know and he's out there in that all orange outfit outfit I was like who is this asshole like seriously who does this guy think he is like you know how stupid

he looks right now if he's Jack did this is gonna is gonna want to punch him if he's got a hand him the trophy in this all Orange outfit and he just looks so flashy and like just kind of like a tool with this haircut. And I just, I just pictured him as being this really cocky guy. And he's not like that. No, I've grown to appreciate and defend him more often than I care to admit. But he does, his personality doesn't really

match his dress and the way his celebrity is really carried. So I find myself room for him, but I agree that it's kind of a General statement, you know to say that like he doesn't have an extra gear But we're all waiting for him to really find out. He's actually been kind of quiet. Lee shaky this this far this year as well I think we'll go if you know you it's sort of it's easy to kind of have the hot take of like Doesn't have the guts to win, but really like, I always thought the tiger sort of put it sort of bright, is that like, you just put yourself in situations enough times where you're, if you are good enough,

you're probably going to win more often than you're not. And so, like I think some of it's kind of like, you know, the bad luck of like, well, you can't really control how other guys are playing. So sometimes they're just going to shoot really great scores and you're good scores and going to be enough. But like if you do that enough eventually, that's why Nicholas's record is so amazing that like finishing second 18 times is like he was in it so much that of course he was going to win 18 majors and have you know, 20 second places finish because he was every time he teed it up he was like well I'm finishing top five. Where do you stand I'm curious as far as greatness goes the best like Jack

versus Tiger. How do you I know it's a it's a this is a PTI or a first take level of discussion but where do you stand I have my own opinion on you know Jack's records Jack Jack's numbers, Tigers accomplishments, but I'm curious as to how do you compare the two? I've come to look at it this way is that ultimately like Tiger was I think the better player, but Jack had a greater career. And I think that's a fair way of sort of assessing it. Like I think at their peaks, you know, obviously they were both great,

but the depth of field that Tiger was sort of facing and the way he was completely like, just destroyed people, you know, in the British that year, in the masters, and, you know, at Pebble, you know, so, but like, we've never really seen anything like that we've never seen a person who could hit the kind of shots that he had now I don't think Tiger was like facing the kind of you know top 1% of quality talent that Jack was in terms of you know the end of Arnie's career the middle of you know at the beginning of

Watson's career the middle of Gary players career like the beginning of Watson's career, the middle of Gary Player's career. Like he took on a lot of Titans that Tiger either prevented from being great or, you know, they just weren't, weren't that great and he then looked that much better as a result. But Jackson something interesting once that I thought, and this was years ago when it looked for sure, like Tiger was going to break the record. I think he said this directly, which is like, you know, you well guys just want to kind of give it to him. Like maybe he is the greatest all time, but you still actually have to go out and do it. Like you actually have to win those tournaments. And I was kind of thought

that that was a very fair way to look at it. It's because you just like the do that we're in such an age of like hype now where Nozzious can play the role in this. But where someone does something amazing and it's like, is it a half an hour later? Is this the greatest performance of all time? Is this guy at all time great? We have to immediately categorize things in the now. I always joke about how people used to debate LeBron's legacy from one end to the court to the other Like you know if he's he's a great. Oh, he's a Joker. No, he's an all-time great

Like it's back and forth like that's the sort of nature of Twitter like people are firing off these takes and I think that like the actual Assessment can't be done until it's all sort of over Like if Tiger were to sort of find it and somehow win, you know, three more majors, yeah. Like, you can make a total argument that he was, oh, sorry, you can make a total argument that he is the greatest of all time. You know, even though he doesn't get all the majors that Jack did. But I think until you actually do it, it's hard to say, like, yeah, you had the better career. Yeah, I mean, that's a good answer.

I mean, I don't disagree with anything you said. I think at their peak, no one has ever played the game better than Tiger did when he was at his best. Granted, I was not alive for the Jack Nichol Sera, so I didn't see this up close and personal, but no one ever dominated the way Tiger did and no one ever will. I don't know how to weigh the competition Nicholas played against. I mean, obviously, Palmer mean obviously Palmer player Watson and I could be getting my timelines wrong but I mean was Ben Hogan a factor right

when he came into the scene. I mean there was there was a lot going on with the top top tier guys in that era that didn't really have the like furek koocher level player. It doesn't, if they did, I didn't really know them. And they didn't have a depth of those kind of players. And it's, I, I, definitely not easy, but like, Nicholas went like 36 for 40 or something in the 70s, at like finishing top 10 in majors. Like, yeah, that's, that's almost like physically impossible.

Tiger can literally not do that. And so I don't know whether or not Nicholas's 19 runner-ups in majors is a good or a bad thing. You know what I mean? Like, when tigers got like five runner-ups in majors, like I don't really know what that means. I mean, if you want to put a narrative on it, it's like all tigers are closer and whatnot.

But like, I feel like it's harder to win majors in this era, but also at the same time, I feel like when Tiger was winning his majors, it wasn't as hard as it currently is. Sure. It's hard to judge the quality of like a TC chin, you know, it was what you're saying, back in the day. We didn't actually see much of that kind of, you know, yeah, no, I totally agree. You know, there was no, you know, there was one great golfer from South Africa in that era,

you know, it wasn't like you'd have five guys who had the potential to win majors. And so like it's, I think it's easy to say, like yeah, obviously there's much greater depth now. But in the end, like, is that, does it matter the whether you beat, you know, 100 guys, if they're just kind of, some of them are just kind of okay, or whether you beat five guys and they're just kind of, some of them are just kind of okay or whether you beat five guys in there all great.

I kinda know. Yep, it's an unanswerable question. We can talk about it for 20 years after Tigers gone as well. So, all right, I'm gonna let you get out of here on, you gotta give me one, at least one sleeper for Augusta, we're two weeks away. I wanna know, you said you were looking down the odds sheet

for a long shot. Want some sleeper, not necessarily to to win just somebody look out for? That was a great one You know, I we didn't even get to talk about this but like I wanted to pick Keegan Bradley until I actually looked at his record It got sick. It was horrible. No, that's not going to happen. How about I'll give you my two. Okay, I tweeted about this one. I was on Lee Westwood at 65 to one because of his history there. He's top 11. It each of the last five masters. I think top seven and four the last five. And he has been quietly been top 25 in every event. He's played this year. I just think 65 to one's kind of long. And I made a play a few months back on Chris Kirk at like 80 to one.

I haven't really heard much from him at all this year. I don't even know how much he's been playing. But basically, a guy that I forget who I was talking to, but he had him valued it around 40 to one in his own personal calculations, just based on the fact that he could draw the ball, hit it high, right to left, and he's got a pretty solid history there. Oh, he can swing, you know, it's certainly pretty good. So that's just kind of my, my, my, my, he's a little deeper sleeper than I think, than Westwood, but those are two guys that at least have my eye on.

Uh, here's a random one that he's been playing actually kind of well since Charles Howe III this year. Okay. You know, he's like 251, so I don't think I don't look to him, but to him He's not gonna like but I could see him with like a sneaky top 15 or something like that. Is he in the field yet? That's a good question, like that may not he may not be This is like the time of year every year where we you know, we focus in on will Charles Hal return home to Augusta this year I haven't heard a lot of that so maybe he isn't the field But I I don't think he is.

He's not top 50 in the world right now. I feel like I kind of cheer for these guys who like a shadow hair and how who are like supposed to be sort of great and then kind of never ended up, like a sort of sad dream for some of that is like tie, try and like trials, how and shadow hair and maybe Samsung Saunders and like that.

Charles Hal and Sean O'Hare are deeply offended that you put Ty Trion in that category. Hey, what was he like 14, whatever, and in qualifier? I think he was around the same time that JB Holmes first made the varsity team. So we're on third grade that Ty Trion declared he went pro and I think he made like $25,000 or something ridiculous in his career and he has a That's a that's a horror story right there So that's what we're gonna do. That's the way that someone sent me a spam magazine guys should maybe go right. Yeah, there you go That's what we're gonna do. Once we've reached Ty Trion. we've exhausted all possible topics. We didn't even talk about Baba this

That was by design That's what I told Porter I said that you know We're gonna pick all these guys talk about it and then we're just gonna we're gonna do it again this year I'm gonna forget that this is Taylor made for Baba. This is I mean it's it's it's I I don't I don't have anything to say about it. He's he's gonna be there. Yep So all right Kevin. Thank you so much for coming on men. We'll let you know is this we're running on an hour But for everyone left listening to Swiss Kevin van Volkenberg from ESPN We will let's do it again. Maybe pretty us open. I know you're you're gonna be looking into Phil

I think first story going into the us open. So I think we should try to catch up around then. Sounds good. Talk to you soon, thanks Kevin. Alright, you bet. Let's get it right club. Be the right club today. Yes! That is better than most.

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That is better than most. That is better than most. That is better than most. That is better than most. That is better than most. That is better than most. That is better than most. That is better than most. Better than most.