No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 171: Final Ryder Cup decompression w/ Job Fickett

Episode Date: October 8, 2018

One wrap up podcast was not enough. Settled back in the US, Soly chats with Job Fickett on everything that went wrong for the US, as well as dealing with the drama that has transpired... The post NLU Podcast, Episode 171: Final Ryder Cup decompression w/ Job Fickett appeared first on No Laying Up. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yes! That is better than most. I'm not in. That is better than most. Better than most! Expect anything different! Alright guys before we get going here I have a first I have a confession to make to everyone.

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available for purchase. They got Euro Balls too. Those are the ones that Tron plays and they're for sale online. Visit CallawayGolf.com for more info. Pick up yours. Now let's get to our final writer cup wrap up with Job. All right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the NoLing up podcast. This is going to be this is it. We're wrapping up the writer cup after this one. No more. Mercifully. We got a lot of positive feedback from having Joe Bond from just doing some writer cup previews and stuff. We kind of rushed out the writer cup recap podcast. It was a immediate reaction. It was just right after a live show. We needed a chance to fully decompress from what happened last week in France. We needed a week away from it, away from the phone for a little while to gather my thoughts

and generate. Yeah, calm down a little bit. But Job, my first question for you, why did the US lose the 2018 Ryder Cup badly at that? Let me clarify that. Why do we get stomped? I just think 12 individuals does not a team make. I think that we had 12 individually very good golfers

that for whatever reason, we just haven't figured out the team-jelling aspect yet. We still haven't, and maybe the guys just genuinely don't like each other as much as the Europeans like each other, and that might have something to do with it. But it's just not a team, it's not a cohesive unit, and you can't force it apparently. Yeah, I just, I guess I kind of struggle with the idea

of playing as a team. I just don't know what that means. Like, four ball is four ball. Like, you play your own ball, and like, yeah, you have a teammate that is also playing their own ball next to you, but for some's, I get that there's kind of like a team weaving in an out element, but it's still about just playing good golf.

Like you can't, I don't know, maybe it's kind of an environment thing that helps promote good play. That's where I kind of draw the line on what the team aspect of it is. But there is obviously something to it because I think, and people have said that I've called this the greatest US team ever, I don't think I said that, I might have to check the tape on that. I believe what I said was the greatest collection of talent that we've ever had.

And I stand by that. I think that that's right. You know, go kind of what you said about the, you know, even though golf is still an individual sport, even when you're playing as a team, there's something about picking up your teammate. There's something about, you know, rooting your your teammate on knowing the right thing to say, having the personalities that make you feel comfortable on the golf course.

I mean, it's impossible to think that there's not some sort of intangible something that we're just missing. And it becomes obvious every time there's a beat down like this, especially on European soul, where the press conference afterwards is us just basically trashing each other in the captains. I mean, clearly it's hilarious. I loved just the difference in, I don't even remember the 2012 press conference afterwards, but 2014 obviously we know what happened with Phil and kind of just slamming

Tom Watson along with the whole process. 16 with the Europeans, they like kind of showed up, I think a little bit drunk, they probably had already started drinking. And they just like laugh their way through it and they just like tip their hat to the US. It's just interesting to me that people are getting all over me for complaining about the course. And we're going to get to this golf course because we have a lot. We actually have to cover with this might sting as far as I know. Only one of the last however many losing teams has taken the stand afterwards and just shredded the golf course. So let's revisit what happened after the 2016 Ryder Cup at Hazeltein. So Rory, when asked

about the setup, Rory said, I hope it has more rough just to say, but that's about it. And he said it with like a little smirk on his face, like I would love to say more about this course. And he didn't. Justin Rose did not hold back. Set up wise, this course can be as tough as you want it to be. There's no doubt about it. I think today, I think if we were all to be honest about it, I thought the setup was incredibly weak. I thought it was very much like a pro-AM in terms of pin positions.

They were all in the middle of the green. I don't quite understand that, to be honest. With you, world class players, 12 world class players here, and 12 world class players here in 30 minutes time. And we want to showcase our skills. We want to be tested. For example, the water holes out there, all the pins were as far away from the water as possible.

The pen on 17 was absolute a joke. It's a nine higher to the middle of the green and you stiff it. So with a match on the line, you kind of feel like you have to have something you want to have a player step up a little bit more than they have to. Even 18, if you hit a good drive down there, you got a wedge in the green, you got a wedge to the middle of the green, you're within 12 feet of the pin so I just felt coming down the stretch as a little soft well he got his wish 180 degrees in the office seriously so I do think it's funny how we just and then

in 2018 the US just starts throwing shit at each other not quite in the press conference read at least waited till afterward in quite I don't know if you didn't have the opportunity to speak at it or didn't. I've heard he was asked the question. The question was asked about breaking up speed and read and the person who asked the question did not direct it at a person. He said like either Jordan or Patrick, like, and that's not what you do because you gave speed the opportunity to jump in and take the question and not give Reed his chance to share what he had to say.

If you're a grand to the failing New York Times or a Reed Ranch. Reed was going to say failing New York Times. Shout out to Karen Krauss for getting the story of the writer, we had recorded that our Rappup podcast before Reed had decided to just start slinging. And honestly, like, what happened I had to laugh at it and like reread to get today, it's so special. Like, I'm sure I've purposely not listened to any other golf podcast this week one

because I just couldn't take any more writer cup stuff. And two, I wanted to chance to kind of develop my own thoughts on this, but Reed fully expecting to be paired with speed and he felt blindsided. He said, Fiery decided to pair speed with Justin Thomas, who starred with Ricky Fowler in last year's Presidents Cup. Reed is a petulant individual. It's every time that you think that he's going to stop taking to the next level. He's just like, he is who we thought doubles down. It's incredible. And he said,

the issue is obviously with Jordan not wanting to play with me. I don't have any issue with Jordan when it comes right down to it. I don't care if I like the person I'm paired with or if the person likes me as long as it works and it sets up for the team for success. He and I know how to make each other better. We know how to get the job done. See, this is why Turncoat Tron has the right idea. We are not a fun team to root for. Let's be completely transparent about this. I'm not going to, and I know I said some things a week ago that I now somewhat regret. But as far as wishing that I was able to pull for Europe

and I really, they are a much more fun team to root for, they look like they're actually enjoying this. But when you see the way that we played, you see how flat we came out in every session other than the first four ball session, and then you see Reed and say stuff like this, and you read the stuff about DJ and Brooks, and it's like, this is not fun.

This is not a good team to try to rally around. There's nothing that gives you hope that they're gonna be able to figure it out in the next two years, right? Not playing in Europe, and then we're gonna get to what we think is gonna happen in a future Ryder cups here, but like, but Reads Not Done.

I thought he might go back with the groups that have worked in the past. For somebody that's successful in the Ryder Cup as I am, I don't think it's smart to sit me twice. He said this after not breaking 80 on his own ball. And Tiger had to apologize to him. Yeah, Tiger. Geez.

Like, honestly, he lives in this world of, like, he thinks, thinking that these things aren't verifiable. Like, it's like his own little bubble that it's almost like a certain politician that we might not want to name. Like, he's just, everything's rosy and everything, trying to paint everything as in, this is the situation here. And I'm going to convince everyone, but unlike half of the country buying this other politician, nobody is buying what Rita's saying at all.

No. A source told the New York Post, he is so full of shit. Blindsided my ass, he begged to play with Tiger. Coucher coming in with the blame throw. I do hope that it is Coucher. Somebody, we'll get to some of the questions we got too. Somebody's asking, who is the source? All right, don't ever ask that question.

Just don't, no one's gonna give up who the source is, one, and two, searching for the source means we don't get more information like this. Sources that don't wanna go on the record do that for a reason. And finding out that source means you don't get this kind of information in the future. So anytime, if it comes from somebody you trust

that says, hey, a source told me this, there's a reason why they said a source and not in certain name right here. Secretly, we can all kind of try to figure out who the source is, publicly like granted and an Inemity to speak candidly out of sensitive matter. There's a reason why these people do this thing and we'll love palace intrigue in this country Yes stuff that we want Read finished it by saying every day. I saw leave your egos at the door and the for referring to the Europeans

They do that better than us. I'm not sure that read knows what the word i don't think so either i don't think it means what he thinks it means i don't have the quotes now in front of me but i saw golf dot com had if i had found some like facebook i think it was facebook votes from his mother-in-law that claimed that read shot seventy four on his own ball that day yeah if he picked up it yeah i think it didn't get to eighteen all what he might have shot seventy four and that and equitable stroke controls. It's hard to put it towards how bad he was.

And the idea that it was Tiger that laid that on him or that would have apologized to him. Anyways, he had that source that he would have shot 83 in his own ball Saturday. He totally screwed Tiger. He has no clue how to play team golf. I saw firsthand how bad of a team player he was. 11 players understood the concept of team golf and only one didn't. Unfortunately, that one proved to be too costly for the team to overcome. That's a bit extreme. Yeah.

That's a bit extreme. If you're asked, if you're to ask me like the one reason why the US lost the Ryder Cup, I think it's Tiger going 0 and 4. Yeah, that's probably fair. I mean, and it's, well, we'll talk, I think we should talk about Tiger just at length, probably because it's inexplicable how Tiger has been this bad at this event for his entire career. And that's what I've just been pacing around the house for the last couple of days,

like trying to try and to understand. I noticed the padded walls in the killhouse. Yeah, and my speed here. It's, this is not a safe play. It was, it was starting to be not be a safe place. The sharp edges around here had all be protected. I was banging my head up against them. It doesn't, like, he's like 13, 21 and one now or something like that in Braddock matches.

I think that's right. And it's, and some of the losses have been just ugly too. It's like, you know, not even really competitive. It wasn't even golf and it, and it's just like, I don't know. He had two twirls off the first team. Yeah, like, but it just seems so fake. Yeah, looking back at it.

It's like, you did, this game was not there. No. Something was completely totally off. And I know we talked about this with KVV. And again, I'm not going to, I'm not going to apologize for repeating myself. We were just going to try to cover this pretty comprehensively here.

But his interview that he gave after the round on Saturday was weird and slurred and just slow and not sharp. The way he delivers words and maybe we only break down Tiger's interviews in this way, but it just felt off. Something was off about him and it's I think even he would tell you that there was just something not right about him. I think he was tired I mean, I don't have any reason to suspect it was anything other than just you know, sometimes after You wouldn't know about this because you don't have a real job anymore, but sometimes after a long week,

I just come home and I'm just like, I just wanna turn my brain off. And I think that there was, if there had been a week in between the tour championship and the Ryder Cup, we would have seen a slightly more sharp and probably a tune tiger than what we actually saw. I think so too. I mean, it just didn't make sense though that he won at the end of this crazy

exhausting stretch and then showed up and played like this. Like that's the part that just doesn't add a, I don't know, it just, there's no way to explain it other than it's so much of why the US lost just comes down to golf too. We want to find all of these reasons and you know this team atmosphere and whatnot. But it's like, dude, number one player in the world can't show up and go one in four. Tiger who is one of the hottest players in the world and is climbing the official world golf rankings at a ridiculous pace went on for like Broke's Cup, he went one in two. Ricky went what one three and one or it was not great what what what he finished at and like that he

what he finished one and three. Rick Ricky was quickly the forgotten man. Yes. This writer could probably win. Yeah, the other names in front of them that played so poorly kind of took away some of the heat off of Ricky too. But I don't know. It just is like I don't think it's easy to say like all the bombers just couldn't play this course and whatnot. But like JT is like one of the biggest bombers in the world. And I know that people want to do this correlation causation. Like he went over and played the French open and he went over and came back and went foreign one.

Like maybe, but like Phil went over and saw the golf course too. He didn't play in competition, but he played it before the Open Championship. Phil went over there and saw the golf course too. He didn't play in competition, but he played it before the Open Championship. Yeah, Phil went over there and saw the golf course society fucking hated it. Yeah. And never and went back probably dreading having to play it again. I guess, which I don't know.

I don't know. It feel really, and we can talk about Phil's recent comments. He made this past week on the course set up and how he said, playing, he won't play tournaments that are like that. I didn't actually hear the audio of it, but I think he's meaning, like, if this was like a golf tournament,

like I've stroked play tournament, like I wouldn't show up and play this tournament on these conditions, which he shouldn't. I don't think he was calling. I think he made it abundantly clear with the shenanigans at Shinnecock how he felt about the overwrought setups on golf courses. And, but I don't think he meant like

that the Ryder Cup was a waste of his time or playing this event was a waste of his time. I don't know, but I don't know he meant like that the writer cup was a waste of his time or playing this event was a waste of his time I don't know But I don't know how he can go over play that golf course in in the summer Come in with the form that he was in and be like, yep, like I'm I'm a good guy for this team Like I'm I'm right for this team if and I had this blind faith and Phil I just had this feeling that he was gonna be able to flip the switch and turn it on. He's done it in the last three rider cups, and I just thought with how much he's taken on himself

with owning the process of forming the team and this whole transformation. I just thought he'd step up or have the wherewithal to pull himself back. And I think he did Saturday. I think he told Fierrick don't send me out Saturday. I think that's probably right. I mean, just like Sergio, he was never not going to be on this team. And Sergio did the thing that Phil probably should have done, which was take a little bit of time off, actually go decompress, hit some range balls, try to find something. Sergio came over, had a little warm up, Portugal and played well, and Phil came over and didn't play well at all.

And, you know, Phil in his interview was on the Fairet Show, you know, back a little while ago, was like, yeah, I'm gonna be on this team, I'm gonna be on the next one after that. And I'm probably gonna be on the team after that. And it's like, after this performance, dude, I don't know that we really, I think there might be a time

for a changing of the guard here shortly. Yes, yes and no. Because I think like, if they go to Wistling Straits, where this is not the things that mattered at the golf national won't matter Maybe he will be a good fit for this team. I don't know I mean, well, it's a bit obviously depend on how he's playing and like a lot of different factors I just this this golf course is And I already do the golf course yet is it time?

Let's do well We want to do Brooks and DJ first because that's the other big development that's happened Let's do that first. We'll get done the golf course yet, is it time? What's do? Well, do we want to do Brooks and DJ first because that's the other big development that's happened. Let's do that first. We'll get to the golf course. I promise we will because that needs its own like maybe separate podcast. Brooks and DJ, this originally came from, I believe, Mr. Corrigan at the Guardian.

It's behind a paywall, so I don't know what's in the article, but it alleges that DJ and Capca had to be separated in the European team room on Sunday night of the Ryder Cup. Multiple sources also revealed to the golf channel that the incident occurred. Tim Rosefort on Morning Drive confirmed that this did happen. Kepka says this week at a press conference in Scotland, the dusting thing I don't get. There's no fight, no argument. He's one of my best friends.

I love the kid of death and we talked on the phone Monday and yesterday he told me how he thought. People like to make a story and run with it. It's not the first time it's been a new story that isn't true that has gone out. As far as the camaraderie, it was fine. It was perfect. The problem is you guys tried to find a reason we lost and simple reason is we didn't play good.

Two takes on this. Yeah. First of all, do we really believe that Dustin and Brooks had to be separated and we're all about to come to blows? I mean, Dustin can't hit anything within three feet of him anyways. So I'm not sure that he was really going to have a problem. Try to crosshand punch. Oh my, yeah, there you go. Well, switching the middle of the kerfuffle. When this hands, when this came out, like I got tried to get in touch with a couple put guys from the team room and like everyone's like, what? What this happened? Like, nobody was able to confirm on the,

I'm not saying it didn't happen. I mean, if, you know, if Rosefort has multiple sources or whatever confirmed that this did happen, and if Keppka is just straight up lying, if for content purposes, I hope this happened, are you kidding me? Like, that's the perfect way to end this router cup. Two players are fighting each other.

This is my second take, which is that Kevco is legitimately second-tiered of people in the media not asking him questions, so he had his people leak the shit out. So that way the media would be forced to come asking questions that he could answer by denying them and continuing to be boring. I mean, he should have fed into it.

If this is what he wanted, he'd feed into it, dude. I love it. No, I think the more wrestling we can make the Ryder Cup, the better. Like this is, this has been supposed to be for entertainment purposes. The only entertainment the US has given us the last, like, a quarter of a century

that they've been going to Europe has been this drama that comes after we lose the Ryder Cup, which just happens every freaking time, which is amazing. I mean, it really is, and that's the thing that I regret the most of anything I said leading up to it. I really, I maintain this team that the US put together, and I stand behind the captain's picks.

Again, I've stated why I thought Phil was gonna be an okay pick. That's the one I could change if I could, but leading up into it, I said, there's no way you can't take him. It's just not realistic. I mean, it's easy to do the hindsight thing and everyone just gets on Twitter when Saturday, when they're losing by a bunch and says, we should have done this. It's easy to say that, but like, there's a process to this thing. And if you weren't saying on, you know, back in the beginning of September, the Xander shopper should be

on the team, then don't say it on that Saturday or Sunday. There's a, and you can make the case for fill being the right pick, but being utilized completely and appropriately, which is what happened, I mean, in my opinion, why would you send him out on Saturday in the ForSums with Friday in ForSums? Sorry, on Friday in ForSums.

I mean, it was just, you know, if you're gonna play and play him in ForBall. Yeah. I's, I mean, it was just, you know, if you're going to play in play in Foreball. Yeah. I agree. I do agree. And I'm leading up to this new UNI talk tonight, kind of debuted the take that I thought it was easier to hide a player in Foresham's than it was Foreball. Looking back at that, I think that was a lot more relative to the kind of golf that happened at Hazeltein.

And I don't think that's necessarily the case at the golf national. I mean, there was nowhere to hide. I mean, if you were spraying it off the planet there, like you're just, you're gonna lose in like less than three hours, which is pretty much what the entire US team did. Yeah, I mean, even on like the first tee, you know, you actually, you know, if you hit it just a little bit,

over cook a draw, just a little bit of pull it, just a little bit, and you're in the water. I mean, there's like no, you know, like he said, there's nowhere to hide. To hide. Yeah, and I thought, and it's not just because the US team got absolutely trounced in forSums, I thought Hazel team was a boring course for four ball.

I think there just wasn't a lot of interesting elements to it. I actually thought the golf national was interesting for four ball. I thought it was fun. It was kind of like, all right, he's out of this hole. He's taking these guys on one on two or, oh, there's only it's one on one now. What happens? Like, it was just enough madness going on that it was just, it was intriguing to kind of play best ball format.

I didn't think it was very fun for four sums. The matches weren't good. Like, there was no real good matches. And even singles, I thought it just too often, to wait too often, holes were decided on the T box, which I don't think it's good matches. And even singles, I thought, it just too often, way too often, holes were decided on the T-box, which I don't think is good golf. Still not maybe quite right, fully ready to get to the golf course yet. But so I agree that sending fill out in ForSums was kind of crazy. And we've heard kind of some rumblings of like people within Team Europe are kind of looking at the pairings of like kind of laughing at what the US did and The some wrong buttons were pressed and I like the idea of I think was Shane Shane Ryan on Twitter was saying like Bjorn like lured

Furek into the trap. That was a good take. Yeah, like rolled out his best players on Friday morning and then Friday afternoon had some just kind of question mark pairings and I don't know. I think a lot of pairings are question marks until you try them. I am like, I don't know. If your team loses, I think it's really easy to be like, wow, who would pair those two guys? You guys go like, that doesn't work. But it's like, you don't really like who would have sent out Bubba and Webb on Saturday afternoon?

And they won. And they won. Right. You just don't know how this stuff's going to play out. But you kind of can look at and see, I mean, I know Phil probably went to Jim and was like, hey, I want to play with Bryson, like I think for me and Bryson, for some good stuff. And you know, if you're, if you're Jim Furek, like what do you say? No, I don't think that that's going to work.

I mean, maybe that's what you have to say if you really honestly believe that. But if, if you know, you have a guy like Phil who, as we've talked about at length, is kind of reshape this process and he comes to you and says, I think this is the matchup that I really want to go out and try to prove myself on and try to bring Bryson along. And it just didn't work. I mean, like he said in hindsight, it's kind of easy to look back at and be like, that was a bad idea. But, you know, it's hard to, without knowing what goes into it from a first hand basis,

it's hard to second guess at the time. Now, but I think, here's where I think the US is aired, and the pendulum has swung too far in the terms of the process, and now the players have too much control over it, and it's way too much feel-based and not database. I mean, it's easy to kind of, and I kind of gave the 15th club who are like this statistical group that basically consults essentially for European tour on behalf of Team Europe or something along those lines, and they come up with these models and be like, this is who you should pair blah, blah, blah with, et cetera.

As much as that worked in 2018, let me also add that they also helped the Europeans in 2016 and they got absolutely trouts. So I don't want to give them too much credit or just be like, this is the blueprint, just do exactly what the Euros do. But there's got to be something too, like, hey, yeah, these two guys playing alternate shots together makes sense for this reason. They might win, they might not, but here is the data points that kind of support why these two should go play together. I just doubt that that's anything close to what happened on the US side. I don't think anybody,

like any data would be like, oh, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, those are the two that need to go together. And maybe that's the personnel, like they, they just kind of roll the dice with, hey, these two like each other somewhat, and they should play good golf together, or these guys talked about they wanted to play together. Let's do that, but I just don't know that there's actual enough thought, or the proper thought process that goes

into pairing guys for four sums. Whatever they're doing in Europe, is that working? Is that working? Last two ratercups, 13 to three in favor of Europe in four sums. That's just, it's so lopsided that you got to just think we need to, whatever, like you said, whatever we're doing, blow it up because there's got to be a better way. And I almost got him to seem to do that on Saturday afternoon.

It was like, because we had, specifically at the, at the president's cup, DJ and Keppga had played ForSums together. And what we had heard that they did not think that they did not want to do that again. Like they just, their, their styles didn't mesh like you, you might think that they did not think that they did not want to do that again. Like they just their styles didn't match like you might think that they would. And they didn't get paired together for the first three sessions. And then the panic sessions that afternoon they did get paired together. They did not win. But have they ever want to match as partners in the rider cup?

They won't play two together. And then they lost both. They lost them both. So I think there just was general panic because leading into it, like I know, like I'm pretty sure on kept his side, like he just like would have preferred not to play with DJ, but it also just goes to and we talked about this in the last pod, but the US players didn't know who was going to be paired with who leading into it, like all the way up till Thursday. Which isn't that seems insane. It does.

And maybe it just was kind of like maybe they kind of had an idea who was going to get paired but they wanted to figure out what sessions were. Well, I was like, all right, you know what the format's going to be? You know, and maybe they wanted to figure out, kind of maybe take a straw poll on Thursday like, all right, who was really playing well, who was seeing their lines and who, who can we roll out there? And it just didn't make a ton of sense. And I don't know. It's I think four ball is I just don't know how much

credence to give to the pairings and four ball. Like is Tiger responsible for read playing poorly? There might be something to that, I think, I think maybe there's you Tiger, they've never been able to find a partner for Tiger. like really to play his own ball well, but Maybe you don't play tiger and for ball if that's the case if tigers this exhausted Maybe he just plays for some having said that I don't remember I remember hitting tiger hitting like three shots from the fairway all week Yeah, it was not well all right So I need you to kind of help me to with something that I had no insight on but I've never seen a Twitter reaction something that I had no insight on, but I've never seen a Twitter reaction so strong of disdain towards a broadcast like there was Friday morning for the Ryder Cup.

It was despicable. It was probably, it was everything that we roast all the Sunday afternoon broadcast for as far as too many commercials, the same commercials over and over again, bad timing of commercials. I mean, it was like they forgot that there was a live golf event going on at three o'clock in the morning and they were just like, well, let's show all the info commercials that we were just going to show at three o'clock in the morning on golf channel when we're usually doing, you know, a repeat of whatever. It was impossible to get in the flow for the commentary crew. Like you could tell that they were having a hard time with it. We didn't see, we saw a lot of opening t-shots and very few shots from like the second hole,

the third hole, and then they would pick it back up again on the fourth hole with the group and they would be kind of telling us what was going on. But it was the most unified, I think, American golf fans felt all week was watching this unfold. And we're just like, how do you set it up this poorly? I mean, it was awful. It was, and I've honestly pulled up the golf channel mentions just to see it. I wanted to see exactly how bad it was. Oh my God. It was, I've never seen a company get lit up so badly. And people, I know, I know we beat to death, the broadcast thing, but like, this is why we do it. Like, if they don't start feeling pressure

and the development from Friday to Saturday from what I understand was way better, if they don't start feeling pressure from social media from anything, they're gonna try to get away with this. And like, there's a balance to be found with your sponsors and advertising and all that stuff. Like, you have to make money.

Like, that's how all this stuff works. We're not foregoing that. But there's ways to be creative about it. And there's ways to present your product so that people still wanna watch it and not wanna give you a middle finger for what you treated fans to that woke up at three o'clock in the morning.

It pissed me off. I didn't have to watch it and I was like, it was very upset. It was, yeah, it was a visceral reaction. I mean, for me, you know, I'm a junkie. I'm going to be up to watch it anyways. There was no way that I was not going to watch it, but I, you know, I tweeted out a text message exchange ahead with one of my good friends who is a casual golf fan watches the majors and, you know and occasionally watches Sunday

afternoon, I said, hey dude, ride or cup, like this is big, it's gonna be awesome. And he's like, yeah, three o'clock in the morning, but he's a new dad. So he's like, I'll probably be up anyways. He's wide awake at three o'clock in the morning, texting me and saying, like, I cannot watch this broadcast. The word he watched was, or use was unwatchable.

And for casual golf fans, the people who you're you're quote unquote trying to grow the game to, you know, it was like you said, it was a middle finger to the entire, you know, group of people that was up on the East Coast, the United States trying to watch it. It was horrible. Sixteen golf balls are in play during this time and they couldn't keep up with these matches. Like, how am I supposed to have faith in anybody to present a golf product? If this is the easiest event to do. There were no playing through commercials until Saturday. I mean, I don't think they did once on Friday,

even during the morning broadcast, like the after 6am broadcast. And it was the same ads over and over again. It was a stupid flex seal guy. I mean, it's just like, don't give them anymore publicity that they've already gotten. I don't want to hear it.

We'll bleep that out. Yeah. No, but it's, and they try, and I get the kind of, well, we were front loading commercials. If that's the case, that was not the case. Well, I was gonna say that is never the case.

There's always an, front loading commercials means like, all right, during this portion in the beginning We're gonna air a ton more and then just air the normal amount on the back end But it's not like it's not like a struck play event where you can air a bunch of commercials on the front end because it's in Early holes and it's not really getting my impact This is like you know when when a team tease off and you see the first hole play out and then you don't see him again until like the Fourth or fifth hole and you're like okay, they're two down. It's like, how did that happen?

It's very important. We talk about this particular event like for two straight years, show us the damn ball. Show us the off shot. And that was honestly, and I know I remember how bad the reaction was pretty bad too in 2016. That first session was so bad with commercials. And I remember thinking, like, I got a very last minute offer to go the Ryder Cup and I was like, dude, I bet honestly, there's gonna be a shitload of commercials and it's gonna be a shitty viewing experience. Like, I might have to go over there just to be able to actually understand what's going on.

And man, like every single time they try to tweet a highlight, they're just like, oh, well, we missed this because you guys were in commercial. Oh, it's, it's, man, I mean, we have to keep the pressure on them. I'm serious. Like the the and and and if it's anything like profession like a normal golf tour, we give probably CBS and NBC too much shit and more blame needs to go to the PGA tour because the tour dictates so much of how that is. They sell the rights for so much money that these companies are kind of hamstrong in terms of and they need to sell so many ads

to be able to make a profit of it, blah, blah, blah. Probably some of the same blame goes to PJ of America. This event is turning just in this one huge insane corporate outing and this huge behemoth of a, it's basically like a corporation, this thing. And I guarantee golf channel NBC has to pay so much money to broadcast this, that it's like, all right, we need all these commercials to be able to make this justify it. There's just got to pay so much money to broadcast this that it's like, all right, we need all these commercials to be able to make this justify it.

There's just got to be a better way to do all there does. There's definitely definitely does because when you have people that are turning it off and just saying, like, I don't, I'm not even able to watch enough golf to understand what's going on here. Why am I up at three o'clock in the morning watching this? Yeah. Yeah, that's, it's tough. Are we ready to do the golf course yet? Let's do it. Okay. So people are probably tired of hearing me talk about the golf course and whatnot. You're kind of a golf course architecture guy. I can think you could say, but what did you think of the golf national and how it played for this event? It's a better stroke play course and that's been my

my only prior experience with it's been watching the French Open and it's been my my only prior experience with has been watching the French Open and it's a better stroke play course. It's still not a good golf course. I think that from a fan perspective, like from a fan viewing perspective on the grounds and maybe you can speak to this a little bit because you were there, it's probably a pretty awesome place to watch golf if you're on the grounds because of the stadium atmosphere. The fact that you know they dug out these big lakes and used the the dredged earth to build up these big mounds. But it's as a match play golf course it just wasn't all that fun to watch. The par three is really monotonous. There weren't that many half-par holes. They only set up I think one drivable par four and there wasn't really a whole lot of trouble around it. It was a six hole and it was just kind of like everybody's just going to bomb it.

There was no risk and reward for it. And I just didn't think it produced the kind of drama. I mean, it's easy to say this is a as a fan of the Americans, but I just didn't really think it produced great matches overall. It was just kind of a kind of a blog off course. But when you say something's not a great match play course, what does that mean? Like I have my definition in my head, but what does that mean to you?

I think with a match play course, you want to see a lot of half par holes, because again, par doesn't matter, and it doesn't matter if the guys are holding, or having holes with threes on a par of five, that might be okay if it was a really, kind of like a 520-yard hole where you got to have like a second shot force carry over water and there's a heroic aspect to

trying to play it. But for the kind of golf course it was and it didn't really, it's hard to say that it didn't produce a lot of fireworks I guess you could say. I mean, that was really the part that I was looking for was, you know, something that was just kind of, you know, fireworks and excitement, and it just really wasn't all that exciting to watch. Well, I look at, I look at like something like the second hole, part three, and most of the days it played pretty long, like five or six iron to a back left pan. I think it is the one day that I think of. And you step up the water all the left. It's almost, it's not an island green, but like there's just the question that just kept being asked

was, can you hit it right here? Like, can you do this? Hit the ball right here. And you've got, first guy can step up, hit the ball in the water, and that doesn't change your situation at all. Like you still, the question's still, I've got to hit the ball right to this spot

or else I'm in trouble. I think it's a lot more intriguing if like, say that green. Talk that pin back left, protect the front, the left with the water, that's fine. But if there's a green, like a bigger green space and the first guy steps up and hits it to 35 feet to the safe part of the green, the question that is being asked to the next guy is a good one. It's like, all right, do you want to try to take that pin on to get closer to that guy or do you want to follow the safe that pin on to get closer to that guy? Or do you want to follow the safe route and go there? And there just wasn't any element to that.

There wasn't like what kind of risk should I take on to do this? It's like, no, this is just a really hard shot that I have to step up and hit. Right. And we see so much of that on this golf course because precisely of the way that it's kind of designed with, like I said, the water features, the water

hazards. There's just so many force carries on the par three. You look at every single par three and you're like, oh, it's the same hole again. And early in the morning, especially in the colder weather on day two, where we saw a bunch of guys hitting in the water on number two. And we finally got to see some golf shots on the second hole on day two. And most of them were, a lot of them were going in the water. They were bailing out way right into the bunkers that were right at the green.

And none of that is the excitement factor that you kind of hope for in a match play course. Yeah. And it's just like, and what I also said is like this, this whole golf course just kept testing the skill of can you hit it to right here? There was not any strategy really to the golf course just kept testing the skill of can you hit it to right here? There was not any strategy really to the golf course, and I know that this is kind of where it's hard to not sound like extremely sour about it, but I'm like, listen, European tour can do whatever they want with this golf course.

You are the home team, the US set it up, very favorable to themselves at Hazeltein, European tour, they're playing chess while the US set it up, very favorable to themselves at Hazeltine, European Tourists. They're playing chess while the US playing checkers. Like they went to a golf course that benefited their style of play and they had guys ready to play that golf course. Where the US aired is they had guys show up that looked like they'd never seen the course. Look like they didn't spend three, four days practicing at this course all week. It looked like they still hadn't figured out the green speeds on Sunday. And like they

just didn't prepare well for this golf course and they needed a different mentality to play it. But it's just a golf course that totally neutralizes distance is not good. Like, yes, the PGA tour course is lean too far and it benefits guys to just bomb it. And what I've always said is the issue I have with PGA tour setups is When guys can take driver to eliminate trouble and it's an easier shot with driver. That's not good design But I golf course where you just also can't take driver just because it's not good No, there's literally no fairway to hit it too, you know, Roy And but the same goes and yes, there are more guys on the US side that kind of specialize in that style of play But like Roy McHorley went two and three and was hitting irons off par five.

It's like, that's not good. Like, that's not good. Like, but it all goes back to my overall point of how the US just had a incredible collection of talent. And it go back to when Mark Brody came on the podcast and he had at Wardam, Alonari, Francesco's brother, obviously, had said something to him like, if you were, if an amateur, and I don't let this, don't take this too literally, I'm not saying the Europeans are amateurs and the US team is pros,

but if you have a professional golfer and an amateur golfer, and you want to square off against each other on a one-hole battle, would the amateur golfer choose a 20-foot putt or a 200-yard par-3? choose a 20 foot putt or a 200 yard par three. You would choose the putt, like you have the further away you get from the whole the more highly skilled player just has a better advantage. When you take that advantage away from I still believe as crazy as this sound as but heard as the

European Golf fans are gonna be about this, I think you still had better talent. Like I think all the data supports that. Now, that doesn't mean anything if you don't go play this golf course. And again, the Europeans had every right to do this. I'm not knocking that. And it's just, it's just like the way it is. They were smart in this setup

and it neutralized the US top player. So as much as we want to break down like the pairings and you know, they just didn't, Dustin can't show up and go one and four. Tiger can't go on four. Bryson was a very easy captain's pick I don't know a a formula that you can't take Bryson, right? And I think if you're biggest mistake probably it was not letting Bryson play his own ball Like if anyone that needs to play their own ball

It's probably Bryson But aside from that like you just can't have your top players go out and all post losing records aside from JT and and like you just can't have your top players go out and all post losing records aside from JT and Speed and Web Simpson had a winning record now. I we were I was I had I'm like dude I'm riding with web on this in this event. I was ready for that and he played great He did play well and he looked interested. I mean that was the other thing that I Just couldn't help but notice what the US team is at certain points They just look kind of disinterested. They look flat. Yeah. Just not really, you know, it had no inspiration to try to go out and play well. But I think it can be, it's not everything has to be

to the extremes. And everyone just wants to be, I'm not proposing that there should be no punishment for failure of accuracy off the tee. But what Phil said about the set up this week was actually pretty interesting. We said Ben Hogan had what like a five degree, the greatest ball striker of all time and like a five degree radius of error or whatever. And like with as far as these guys hit it now, you can't have 16 yard wide fair where it's like,

that's not golf, I'm sorry. And like to completely eliminate the idea of like a recovery shot. What's the, I remember one good recovery shot. Rory, like from the water hazard. Yeah, and that was, I think in four ball, when a shot he probably wouldn't have tried in singles or alternate shot.

That shot was incredible. And honestly, how can you play an entire event where it's like, all right, hidden the rough, all right, punch back out in the fairway. And like, is that fun? Was that exciting? Do you want holes to slide on the tee? I don't.

Regardless of whether. Well, the perfect example that was the 18th hole in singles in the Rory JT match, which I mean, obviously Rory got a really bad break with how that ball ended up in the bunker and I mean just completely plug sideways, but that match was, it deserved a much better ending than what it got. It did, but even that shot, I was like, I'm sure this wasn't the case,

but that's the first ball I remember landing in a fairway bunker all week. Like there's other ways to challenge guys off the tee than just like ankle deep rough two feet off the fairway. And like, And Kudos to Justin Thomas for taking driver there, enforcing Roy to take driver. I mean, Roy hit three wood.

Oh, he did. Roy dialed back to three wood. I was kind of curious as to why I don't, I don't, I didn't even go back to that tee box and understand that tee shot. It is very, I mean, it's difficult, obviously off the tee, but it, I don't know, there's different ways to challenge guys with accuracy. And I, the idea of like narrowing fairways near where you need to hit driver is, I like that. You look at that 17th fairway, that hole is a joke. It's like 480 yards and you could

clearly see where the fairway like has originally designed to be and where they set it up to be. I don't know what they do. I don't know if they brought it in from the French open. Maybe they do that on the exact same dimensions. But then also mowing the rough back totally. So it mats the ball down and the ball just sinks. So it's all it's always on these guys ability to hit the fairway off the tee is that like no School of golf that I subscribe to does the most interesting shot should it be the t-shirt I guess much is bombing it is a benefit It's all still about guys they hit the ball close to the hole as far as worry hits it his biggest weakness in the less So we're just as much play and like it doesn't hit it close to the whole close enough to the hole

It already doesn't hit as as close he used to, I should say. And there was just no element to that. I don't like seeing Rory be neutralized. I thought Justin Rose was even a little bit neutralized and Rom just looked completely out of sorts and I've been fearing that guy on the Ryder Cup for honestly, as soon as he came out, I'm like, oh, that guy's gonna be an issue for us.

Romett wanted to, Rose went two and two, Rory went two and three. A guy that had never won a Ryder Cup match before. He played six Ryder Cup matches and never won one, went five and no. I mean, come on. You can't tell me that golf course didn't play an enormous factor in deciding the winner of this event. It did, for sure.

It's ignorant and as mad as the Europeans are going to be for saying this, I believe this. If those same two teams went over to Hazel team and played the next week, I think the US would be favorite. I think the US would win. Now, having said that, there's no excuse for the US showing up and playing like that and knowing this is where the event is. You have two years to prepare for this event on this golf course. Right. They did not prepare for it and the Europeans again had every single right to set it up that way and they are playing at smart. Like they deserve all the credit in the world for that.

You can take all the strategic interests out of the golf course, but that doesn't mean that there's still not a strategy for playing it. Correct. And we didn't, we didn't, for whatever reason come up with the winning strategy for playing the golf course. And it's all, and God, the comment that I got the most that just made me what a bash my head against the wall was. I feel like you're therapist right now

in this podcast. Please help me. It's kind of awesome because I was like letting you just get all the takes out and I'm sitting here kind of like, yeah. The worst one I heard was Europeans calling this a proper golf course. Guys, you have all of the proper golf course. This is not like a US versus Europe

thing. Like we do this better. Like you guys do golf courses so much better. You have all the proper golf courses. This isn't one of them. Like this is this is this is trying to knock off an American style, you know, stadium golf course. And it came out looking like a like a cheap knockoff. Yes, it really did. And that's what people comparing it to sawgrass was kind of like, guys, it was built the same way, but that doesn't make it the same kind of golf. Or seating, right? But it's not nearly the same kind of like sawgrass is pretty good with to it.

And like there's so many elements to have. There's depth perception issues with some of the bunkering and round the fairways kind of to make it look tighter than it is and there's a whole lot of visual elements. There's a lot of risk reward that goes into a lot of those holes like it was just not a good advertisement for the golf national. Like if you're a tourist and obviously if you're a tourist you're not going to France to play golf specifically but I would look at that golf course now and be like I have no desire to ever play that golf course. For any reason. Like I can't hit those fairways. Like if these guys can't hit them, why would I want to go play that course? I mean, and that's kind of where you can make

narrow fairways too, as long as the rough is playable from. There should be an element of like a guy guessing as to whether or not the ball is gonna jump and whether or not he can get onto a green from 190 with eight iron or whatever they would hit from there, but like there was no, there was not of that intrigue. And that's where it just, the matches were duds, it wasn't close. And having said that, it wasn't close at Hazeltean either.

And this kind of goes to my overall point that I asked KBV about was like, is it good for the Ryder Cup for the home teams to set it up so drastically in their favor. Because going back to 1997, the home team is one every rider cup, except for 2004, which Halimony, Tiger and Phil paired together, Chris Riley, and a 50-year-old captain's big Jay Haas. So how much do you put in setup to that? Probably not a whole lot. 2012 was Medina, which the US led 10 to 6 leading to the final round. They led 10 for it, one point collapsed.

And love actually took a lot of heat for setting up the golf course, not American enough, quote unquote. 2008, like the zingers cutting down tree limbs for JB Holmes and like putting pins all over the middle of the greens because the euros were practicing to the corners and like taking it to the extreme and like the US wins by a bunch in that one So what I'm hearing you say, Sali is that we need a neutral arbiter to come in and set up the course welcome Mike Davis Welcome to the letter. I was wondering where you're gonna go with that. I didn't see that with cubby No, but like if if like they're gonna you you're gonna double down a hazel teen and make it 7800 yards probably

Yeah, I'm sorry they're gonna, U.S. is gonna double down a Hazel team and make it $7,800 probably. It was so straight to me. Yeah, I'm sorry, yeah, it was so straights, and they're gonna be no rough. And like the U.S. will probably be heavily favored and probably win by a lot. We haven't had a lot of good rider cups lately. 2010 was good. I didn't think Glenn Eagles was like extreme Euro set up at all.

Like they just, a much better team. They had just a better team going into that. And any golf course, they probably would have won on, I think. 2012 was a great, two teams I thought two really strong teams and it was really exciting 2010 was a sneaky good rider cup the the weather kind of neutralized a lot of a lot of the elements of that golf course But it wasn't it was much wider. I mean the rough there was very thick and it was super wet But it was just a it set up exciting play. The most neutral setups were probably 2010 and 2012, I thought, and they were unquincidentally the best rider cups. Yeah, yeah. So

I think there is something to it, and that if we're able to find some middle ground to make this event entertaining, like the last two rider cups have not been fun. I mean, it was great that the, actually, they needed a setup like a dummy proof course for the US to just finally win one at Hazel team. Right, it's been so long. And the Europeans honestly actually seemed fine with that. Like, all right, yeah, you guys needed to win one. We needed to give you one. But I don't want to go back. I don't know. I don't want it to like the Europeans to react again to being overly American set up in 2020 and then do the same thing in Italy in 2022.

I just don't think that's good entertainment. That's my take. Again, under the current set up, I don't fault the euros at all for how they set it up, but I don't know. I just think the problem is that the courses, in general, just are not, just not good golf courses to go to,

like I just wish that there was a way in which you could find some more golf courses to go to, like I just wish that there was a way in which you could find some more golf courses that are in like the 6,800 to 7,100 yard range that would just be more fun to play and match play. And we're not going to any of those anytime soon on the US side. No, and that's, again, I'll go back to what this event is and you need, honestly, I don't know if there's golf courses that can handle European, like Ryder Cup, not European, just that can handle Ryder Cup crowds.

Like, I went at Medina, I went to Hazeltein, I went to this one, none of them have been good experiences on the ground, like for viewing or for following or anything and they were not, they weren't ready in France, I'm sorry, they were not. They had to not have walk, like they need, you gotta figure out a way for traffic flow, for fans to be able to not get cut off and stuck in just massive throngs of people waiting for groups, like waiting 10 minutes for groups to pass

from one green to the next. And it's just, the traffic flow is not very good. The toilet situation was not good. The lines were enormous, like it just, it's so many people on the ground, so little golf that it's, I'm sorry, it's just not a great viewing experience. The outfit Hazeltein and at the golf national. The upcoming Ryder Cup venues for the United States, Whistling Straits, Beth Page, back

to Hazeltein, Olympic Club, and then Congressional. Do any of those golf courses excite you in any way, shape or pull? No, but I mean, like, I mean, Beth Page may be. I've always maintained, like, the Ryder Cup is, Shaper? No, but I mean, like, I mean, best page maybe. I've always been in the team. Like the Ryder Cup is, the golf courses don't matter to that much, it's about the setting. Like it's not, it's all match play, and it's not the same as grinding out around

the stroke play over 18 holes. So setting up a good theater for exciting matches should be like the bare minimum, I think. And I don't think the golf national met that test. I mean, that's, we got to see the 18th hole what two three times a week maybe maybe four times I'm not gonna defend that golf course anymore. No, it's bad. Let's get to some questions We got we got a decent amount of good ones Lake mathir says don't we that's you me American golf Twitter

Need to stop promoting the hot players before picks are made and instead promote golfers that actually fit the course for wakeups We have to have accurate drivers who can putt simple as that fiery would also be good Yeah, yeah, but like you're gonna not take tiger right I get fill is like the question mark pick He went on to we lost by 6 like that wasn't the reason You could have made a really good case for Kyle Stanley on this golf course But are you gonna pick Kyle Stanley over Bryson? I mean how could you like that's the thing is the the US's hands Hand was forced and the guys that got picked just didn't step up and play you can imagine taking like Zander over Bryson and having Zander go into and be like, we left Bryson.

Right. People still think we lost the 2014 Ryder Cup because Billy Horshield didn't go. And it's like, guys, it's just not, this is not how it works. The only argument I can accept is that if you don't put Phil on the team and you put some accurate, straight magical driver that I still don't know who that American is, honestly, like Kevin Naugh, I guess. Put him on the team that it helps the pairings fall out better and magically like read doesn't anchor, tie her down

and it doesn't mean blah, blah, blah gets paired together. That's a huge kind of domino effect that you're asking. That again, you don't know if that guy's not gonna show up and go in three. I mean, Tony Fina was not a great fit for this golf course by a lot of people's arguments. And I just thought that how Fina was not a great fit for this golf course by in a lot of people's arguments. And I, but I just thought that how Fina played the course was how DJ and Capco were gonna play it.

You can be a bomber and still play golf courses like this. Yeah, hit a lot of, hit a lot of irons off T's and just kinda keep it, but I think the guys that hit it a long way just cannot fathom having to play that way anymore. Like they just don't wanna adjust their entire mindset for one week. JT was able to do it. They just don't want to adjust their entire mindset for one week, I don't know. JT was able to do it, Tony Fino was able to do it.

But like, Captain DJ are not JB Holmes. They're not like crank driver, left to right, every single shot, and just wedging on the green. JB Holmes's formula works very well on PGA tour. But like, DJ and Capca's games translate. They can hit shot. Yes, like DJs had success in open championships.

I know this is not an open championship venue or not that style play. Like Capca has played the European tour. A ton. He played years on the European tour. Played the challenge stories, played a lot of golf courses like this. And he just didn't step up and play.

The golf that needed to be played. And that's kind of what it comes down to. All that it comes down to is eventually you just have to play better golf. And if you're not going to play well, then these are the kind of results that are going to happen. Along those lines, Will Hardy says, why are people so keen to make excuses for DJ because of his temperament?

He's world number one, and yet didn't turn up and seems to be escaping any flack. Twenty wins and one major is the biggest waste of talent in years, and people seem to let it slide because he wins in Hawaii. Good take. A bit harsh. A bit harsh, but 20 wins is I don't ever want to hear that as an argument against a player. Like, I know that he probably should have more majors, but like you win 20 tournaments by being unbelievably good at golf.

DJ is simultaneously the least relatable player for an amateur when you watch him hit 400 yard drives and he's the most relatable player when you see how his knees quiver over three and four footers. I mean, that's really, it ultimately comes down to putting for him mostly and we've seen it, you know, going Chambers Bay, I mean, you know, he had a three footer to win,

you know, and I was watching the golf field last weekend and I tweeted out like this is a dangerous distance for DJ standing for for you to wait. And he didn't hit the whole from four feet. I mean, you got to be able to make some puts when it matters, especially the short ones. It turns out switching to Crosshand right before the event and having never done it before was not great. Not the best. I, he made like a 12 footer on in four ball and Fridays. And I like sarcasticly. It's like, yeah, are we still worried about this crosshand?

Turns out one putt was not a very good sample size for me to make that takeoff of, but no, I don't think on least on this end, we're not cutting DJ any slack. I mean, behind Tiger, I tweeted this on Sunday, our biggest disappointment was, aside from Tiger, was DJ. I mean, they're not putting the world losing four matches. We're not going to win. You're just, you're flat out, not going to win the rider cup of that happen. So Michael Frazier asks are Jordan's struggles, single struggles due to a lack of motivation

or is there something about his game that doesn't translate to match play? I don't, I don't unless I love the way the questions phrase, I would just ask it like, what are Jordan's Ryder Cup struggles, or Ryder Cup presents, cup single struggles? Oh, and six, pretty big sample size. I don't know what it is. I don't either. It's weird. It is weird.

I mean, he's his team record is, I don't have it in front of me, but something like six, two, and two or something like that, and Grana that has lots of it with Patrick Reed, and bearing with JT this time around, going three and one. I can't explain. Just get absolutely trounce by to your beyond all of us and is kind of unexcusable really. I don't want to make any excuses for him on it.

I don't want to make excuses either. I think that there's an element of he's the type of player that always gets the other guys best shot, which is part of it. You know, I think fatigue playing so many matches. Definitely part of it. The tour of it was well-rested. It was ready to get out there. It's time boring. It's going to be a captain. He never sits out.

Oh my god. I don't think that there's any excuses to be made for him. It sounds cliche. It's the same thing we've said over and over again, but you just have to play better golf. Especially in singles, it's like, dude, what possible excuse could you make? There's no format. There's no nothing, there's no, there's no nothing, there's nothing to this.

It's like, it's you versus the other guy, you gotta go beat him and he hasn't done it. I don't, I don't know if there is an explanation for it other than fatigue or, I think he kind of alluded to that in 2016 when Dustin was kind of roasting him for being 0 and 4 at that point. He's like, yeah, dude, I play every match, I'm tired. All right, man, you gotta either figure out a formula, sit out a match that helps

you win your singles match or something, but man, to lose all your presence got matches, too. That's, that's not great. Doug McAfary, you get to blow up the entire US team selection process. What do you do instead? Long time proponent here of 12 cappons picks. Listen, we'll never get that. We'll never have our way with that. But saddling a team with guys that you wouldn't take over if you had the choice never seems like the right answer to. So I think the point system needs to be adjusted to not be so top heavy towards wins. Bubble one three times this year and should not have been on this team. Like, I think if you ask Bubble, like, hey, should you be on this team on this course?

He probably, like, no. Right. You know what? Bubble should have been on the team at Hazel team, probably. Right. That would have been a great format. Bubble came in three and eight, I think,

or sorry, one in six on European soil and went one and two. And two and eight on European soil. And had previous back experiences on this exact golf course. Yeah, so a system that rewards top heavy play, and listen, this is a lot longer take that's been written out on the website, but like, you want guys that are consistent week to week,

you don't want the hit or miss guys. Like, I wanna see how guys are able to grind out when they don't have their best stuff. Like a guy like Fina, who's just so freaking consistent week to week and he just laid it on the entire field every week. He didn't beat, he didn't win any tournaments but like that guy was there every week and that matters come Ryder Cup time and he proved that. He's so happy with how Tony Fina played.

I was so happy for him. Yeah, I thought Fina played great. You know kind of coming up especially hitting the first tee shot on you know, like, like, he looks nervous. Well, welcome to the rider, come rookie, you know, I think maybe if we could get to six captions picks, that would that's better. That might be, yeah, that might be the equilibrium. I don't know. Six captains picks and not tying the points to money.

Like the money, the way money is assigned on the PGA tour again, it makes sense like, create, it's an entertainment product. Like you want those guys playing for a huge prize on that last screen. And if the winner gets a million and the runner up gets 900,000, that's not that interesting. I mean, as much as like the FedEx Cup is not interesting, like you do, like it's intriguing to watch guys play for a large amount of money, but that doesn't necessarily mean you've had the best season. They've played the best golf by having a bunch of great finishes, but not any consistency. So not tying the points directly to the dollar and giving, and I think six captains picks this for the better.

So I have a hard time with. And making them all at once, too. Don't make them don't stagger them. I mean make them all at once. If you want to make them late and if the schedule falls out better, if there's a two week gap, if there's a week gap after the tour championship in 2020, which I don't know if that even is considered yet, if there's a week gap, make all the picks after the tour championship. Like the hottest players, your whole picture will be painted at that point and make all the selections right then, rather than whatever they did now. And it's, well, this has worked out.

The Horsesville pick has gone two and one in both of the Ryder cups, but they ended up selecting, yeah, I'm pumped that they went with Finao and, but like the argument, it's kind of where the hindsight thing comes in is like, dude, if there's a guy you would have chopped off this team from a captain's pick for course setup, it's probably Finao, and you would've gone with somebody like Kuchur, and then Finao shows up and goes two and one. You just, you don't know what you're gonna get out of these guys. It's, captain's got to press some buttons,

and you've got to hope it's the right one. Do we think that striker is gonna be the captain that was in straights? Everything I've ever heard says that. I mean, what do you think the strikers gonna be the captain that was in straights? Everything I've ever heard says that. I mean, what do you think the striker captain see is gonna look like two years from now? I mean, it still feels. Still feel.

I think it is still feel running. It still feels the wizard of Oz. And look, it's, I think, again, it's people are gonna be upset about it. And I think I've eaten enough humble pie. Like I was very wrong in thinking that the US team could just overcome the European setup. I just thought it, I thought it was a new era

and that their issues were behind them and their approach to the Ryder Cup had changed. It was premature. And look, one successful Ryder Cup at home covered up a lot of warts and I was dead wrong about that. Having said that, going back home,

like, I'm not nervous about that one. Like I said, I thought the US would win four out of five Ryder Cup starting in 2016. I still maintain still maintain that we're going to win the home ones. Like, I just think we should. Like it would be an upset big time to lose

at home at home. 2022, I think the European guys will have aged, like some of their top players will have aged at that point, but listen, if you get step-up performances from Francesco Montari and going 5 and 0, I can't possibly predict that four years out. So the way things are trending, the US should have a better team than the Euros in 2022. Well, what's your question about Stricker?

Right, I'm... Well, my question is just, I mean, Stricker is a super quiet guy. You know, he's gonna be in his home state, it was constant, which I guess is kind of why you think he might, might be the log for the captain seat, but I don't see him being, you know, whether it's more assertive is what we need or,

I see him being definitely a very passive captain, which I guess is why he said, oh, it'll be Phil's captain seat effectively. I mean, that's what I want to know, like, what is the captain seat now? I don't really know what it is. It's so much, honestly, like, it's so much work from a media perspective and like going to Steelers games. Just being a threat cup. Yeah, that I don't know really what it is.

And I think that I do think it needs more data. And I don't think I'm worried that the data that they use is like printouts from the PGA tour and not like actual models to understand what, like like, where are your stats, Gods now, Stolly? Stolly, people citing the driving accuracy percentage stat like that's that's that honestly doesn't Mean anything like people that are playing for driving accuracy on the PJ tour are playing the wrong game like it's just not What's rewarded out there? So why why does that necessarily mean that they're just driving it straight

Doesn't mean you're gonna play great at LeGolf national like Definitely a good start though. It would help and it would definitely help But I'm not I don't know just take Kevin Law out there just because he hits the ball straight off the team anyways very good question here from Tom cleavly Tom is European as you might be able to guess by this question Do you think the European tour is a better standard than Americans perceive? It keeps generating Ryder Cup winning teams and when Americans play in their events, they don't win, such as Finau and Keppka this weekend at the Dunhell Ligs. Team USA should play more European style courses to succeed.

Okay. There's something about the way this question is phrased. It actually makes it a very good question, because what he said was, is it a better standard than Americans perceive? Not is it a better tour, which, yeah, clearly, I mean, from a talent perspective, purely on a talent basis, it's not. But is it a better product than Americans perceive? Absolutely 100%. I think it is. Okay. I think that there is a lot of good golf that gets played on the European tour on a weekly basis. I think that there are a lot of good golf that gets played on the European tour on a weekly basis. I think that there are a lot of players that have had success on the European tour that come over to the United States and have great success here. Tommy Fleetwood being a perfect example,

Brooks Capka being another one. I don't think that American golf fans, the casual American golf fan cares as much about the European tour as maybe they not that they should but I think that if they put a little bit more effort into learning about some of the guys and watching I mean it's a it's definitely a better broadcasts a better golf product from a television perspective and clearly they're they're doing a lot of things right and they're willing to kind of change the formats and change the game And they had a shotgun start this morning in order to get in front of the weather like is that amazing?

Yeah, would anybody with the PGA to work ever consider that of course not there. They're a little bit more innovative They have the golf sixes They you know, they just they play a little bit more they have more fun with it And and maybe having more fun with it is what helps the European Ryder Cup team kind of come together and enjoy one another's company. And you know, that's my take. Let me clarify that.

I love the European tour. I do too, like the vibe on the European tour, the PGA tour, like 10 times out of 10. Like the atmosphere, the guys out there, the actual players, like the whole, just the supporting crew of European tour staff and every European tour event we've been to is a blast. Like way more enjoyable.

They're just so much, they let you do so much more stuff. There's way less red tape, there's no rules out there. Like I enjoy watching the European tour more than I enjoy watching the PGA tour on almost a Yeah, almost a hundred percent basis a lot of that has to do with the broadcast though, too That's true approach to it and the European tours attitude towards making sure that its product is really good on television I'm looking at you PGA tour fix it anyways having said that I guess the way I view the quote-unquote European tour is very different than I think what Thomas

Amplying here like what 11 of the 12 European European team members play on the PGA tour play a majority of their golf on the PGA tour Toby on Olson is the only guy by my amateur Thought process. I haven't looked this up as the only guy that doesn't play on on the PGA tour and is not a world golfer, I guess you could say. And so the European tour itself like isn't very strong to me. It's like a lot of the top European tour players go and play the PGA tour, the majority of the time. And like they reallocate the rules this year to like, Paul Casey is a European

tour member by token only. Like they made, they changed the rules so he could play on this tour. Like, yes, the golfers from Europe are phenomenal. Like there's, you're better at the rider cupping us. Like that is, if the question is, do Americans not perceive European golfers as being good enough? Yeah, probably. I don't. European golfers are incredible. I would never argue that the European players are not good. The B5 have the European tour, the world ranking points and what not for the events where

they don't bring in the top players are way skewed way too high. That level of golf isn't nearly what it is on the PGA tour. So listen, if we want to do a strictly like players that only play in Europe versus players that play in the US and have that Ryder Cup, that's not going to be a very good competition. We actually had that one for a lot of years. It was the US versus Great Britain in Ireland and it was like 27 to 3 final scores. Like, that's not the case. Like, the best golf is played on the PGA tour,

mostly because all of the top Europeans come and play on the PGA tour, right? Does that make sense? Yeah, that does. So, yes, they are European tour members and whatnot, but like Tiger Woods has the third most European tour winds of all time, and by my mat, he's never been a European tour member. But, I guess my take is just that there's a lot of good golf being played in Europe that probably

goes under the radar because it just doesn't get the... I mean, it's probably harder for most golf fans to watch the European tour because of the odd hours, especially early in the season when they're playing in Australia and Asia and stuff. I just think that there's a lot of good golf that goes under the radar. They get played around the world on the European tour and more Americans should invest some time

in getting to know that. I don't disagree with that. I don't disagree with that. I don't think there's players lying in the weeds on the European tour that you could just insert on this team and would have tremendous success. But there have been some that have come up kind of quickly. I mean, Hatton Fleetwood, some of the guys that really were not household names in the

United States at all that played most of their golf on the European tour two years ago, and have now broken into the American golf scene a little bit, you know, have ended up. There's still products of the European tour. Yeah. I agree. And that regard, I guess I just, yes, Tommy Flew would place on the European tour, but like he's a PGA tour member. And like I view him as a PGA tour player. Now, I think he's going to be playing, he's like playing almost

exclusively in the US next year. It sounds like he's really upping the Ateon as golf in the US, which you should do. But that's like the product of the money. Like there's more money on the PGA tour and all the best players are coming over to the US and play. And that's kind of probably why it's going to morph into one tour eventually, but No, I mean like listen, I just don't think like Luke's Bear Guard. I've Kind of won't been a little key like favorite European players for a long time. I remember Peter Uline

I just had mentioned him on the podcast a couple years ago as I can underrate our guy that he's seen on the European tour that people don't know yet. He just won today. That was awesome. That was really cool. I don't think he's bound for decades of European or European team success, like Henry Stenstner or Justin Rose or anything like that, but like, I don't know. I asked this guy and becomes the definition of European tour. Like, Romm is a token European tour member. Hatton and Fleetwood guys that are products of the European tour, like you said, probably should be viewed through a different lens, but watch more European tour. It's a lot of fun. The part that I had to trouble with is Fino and Keppka playing this week and not winning. Be part of his argument. It's like, wait, is the standard that

when the Americans go over and play the European tour, they have to win? Like, they both finish top 10 this week, is that not good enough? That's kind of the logic of like, guys, I don't know what the European fans want us to say more. Like, you beat us. Like, you crushed us. What do you want me to cry on here? I'll cry if you need me to.

Like, why do you have this? I don't want to say inferiority complex about it, but it's not even good enough to have won the Ryder Cup. Like, we have to just bow at all of your feats and you guys are the greatest golfers ever to walk the planet. And I love European golfers is the problem. Like, I don't enjoy interacting with European golf Twitter. I'm just going to say that.

Like, oh man. Well, it's not been fun. And like, I root for like a lot of the European players like Tommy Fleetwood's one of my favorite players. Roy's one of my favorite players like but God like there's just no perspective that comes from from the European golf fans on Twitter like for the most part and the problem is the ones I've interacted with in person have been so much fun such a blast. I follow you there now on following Sully on Twitter.

I want to come follow me. It's at JW Fickett. I talk about the interviewer. That's fine. This is fun. We have a good time. It just it goes past like friendly banter. Like this point right here is like Fina

and kept getting you to win this. Like, oh my god, I just can't. I can't do it. I didn't do it. I just I hit the mute button so freaking often. There's like so many non sequiturs of like, oh you said that they were going to destroy them. Like, where's your article now? I'm like, I'm not out on chipmunk. I didn't write in the

article. I don't know. That's why I made a nice hedging. I hedged my bets very well the week before the writer company. Writing it to figure out the piece of saying how the European team could win. And it ended up being way worse than I ever could have imagined. I, again, like that, that's kind of the thing with what happened to is like no one predicted that. 50 people out of 7,000, I guess predicted 17 and a half to 10 and a half European, like less than 0.4% of the people predicted that final score. And like no one, no one predicted like worse than that, I'm pretty sure.

Like that is the worst case scenario that could have possibly happened to the US. If they teed it up again, Europe would probably still win. I would imagine, but it wouldn't be 17 and a half, 10 and a half. I can't foresee a situation where it could have gone worse for the US. It won eight straight matches. That doesn't happen. That doesn't happen. We've answered this tiger question.

Anders Hofstedt, how come only two European rider cut players, how come the only two European rider cut players both beat the only two USA rider cut players playing in the Dunhill links, three different courses when the golf national was the main issue? Again, this is kind of what we're dealing with here. It's like, guys, you won. Do you want a point to one more stroke play event the week after the Ryder Cup to help validate this win? Like, you won the Ryder Cup.

Why, why, why is this still, like, somehow a point or a question? Because we put, because we're asking for it by giving us podcasts. I guess, man. Craig W, should the format be altered in the future to even things up, example, Europe versus the rest of the world?

Oh my God. This is tip of the iceberg of what we're dealing with here. I just wanted to throw a few examples for, because I know that people here, what they want to hear on the podcast, and it's already, people have already shut this off and are blowing me up on Twitter. So my can't see why on earth did the US only go

to the golf national for one practice session and with only half the team We've known about the course for more than two years. I bet you players visit a US open course for practice around much more frequent Do you think this is one of the problems? Lots on rap here one. I don't think the players visit the US open courses for more for practice on as much more frequently I played the Chinacock this year three weeks weeks out from the open, the US Open. It was nothing like it was three weeks later. There was nothing to really learn about it. Very unrealistic to just expect US players

to hop across the pond for. Again, this is, as much as you don't say, it was as much as fans care about it. It's an exhibition. There's no money in this event for the players and that dictates so much of what how they set up their schedule. It's easy for us to sit back here and say, Hey, care more, like care more. But like, I don't know, if people want a point to JT going to play in the French open and going for and one,

speed didn't go play the French open. He went three and two, Fina went two and one, Web went to him. Like, it's not, it's not a correlation causation thing to just be like, you had to play the golf. I agree playing that course in competition would have helped. I think it had to have. It had to help with some of that shell shock look that we saw on a lot of their faces. But I don't know. It's so much easier for Europeans to play a Ryder Cup course in practice on it

because they're all based in the States, basically. So it's just a very different animal. And the argument would be like, I when they come over for the open, they should go play the course, basically. So it's just a very different animal. And the argument would be like, I, when they come over for the open, they should go play the course a lot of them did. So I don't know. James Torinos asks, why not give the captain another chance?

Furek has learned loads from this experience and would be able to build on this, makes no sense to keep rotating captain to give everyone a shot. I think there's something to this. I've always wondered why they changed cappons every year, but it's also probably, the cappons probably don't wanna do it more than once.

Yeah, I think Davis loved doing it more than once was strictly and anomaly. I mean, I'm not really sure what the rationale was for giving him another look at Hazeltein. I think one of those spots was slated for Payne Stewart, to be honest. I don't remember which one, but it was like, all right, you got, this was supposed to be painstier

and it went to Davis and that's why he got two goes at it, I guess. I don't know, there's a lot of change at the top of the PJ America and whatnot and how they select it and so I don't know exactly, but I don't know, if I'm a captain, I don't necessarily want to do it more than once, I think. Like it's a complete overhaul of your schedule for an entire year and it's fun, but like,

you get like a decent amount of credit if you win and you get all the blame if you lose. So there's not a lot to gain from it. So in the mash in out in the team room is Phil Mickelson an added value or a nuisance to a team captain with less charisma. It's a very fair question. And Phil has been a part of so many losing Ryder Cup efforts and taking as much on to this to his plate as he has, like a lot of the blame for this one has to come on his shoulders. Like, and I credit him a lot for 16. Like he took so much on, he played great, and they whooped some ass. He still has a lot in his plate.

He played terrible and they got their ass peat. So like, but there's, I mean, coming forward with Tiger and Phil, now we're going to be captains and upcoming team events. Like, there's a lot of losing history and the same with Furek this year. I mean, it was not a good rider cup player. Like, there's, there's going to be a streak of teams here, there's a lot of losing history. And the same with Furek this year, I mean, it was not a good Ryder Cup player. Like, there's gonna be a streak of teams here where there's gonna be guys that by default are gonna be captains that do not have

sterling Ryder Cup records as players. And we're just gonna have to get past that and figure out a way to use it, to use other things to our advantage. Like you said, if it's the stats or if it's, you know, having six captains picks and actually finding guys that like each other, there's got to be something because it's not going to be, we're not going to rely on all the good memories of Phil and Tiger playing when they become

captains. I think it's easy and convenient to point back at what Zinger did in O8 with Valhalla and those pods, like the pod system thing is just beating to death. But what Zinger did the best was those four guys, like, would have gone to war for each other. And there was no doubting who those four guys are. And there was a plan in place. Like this week, it was just pod-ish.

Like it's like, all right, yeah, you guys are kind of together, but there wasn't like this battle mentality of like, here's what we're doing. Like you four going to battle together, you guys figure out who's playing what and let's go and we'll get behind it there was still too much like maybe it's read the only one doing the blaming but there just wasn't that kind of mentality of like I got your back you got mine it was too much individualism along from from from from top to bottom really so they that's that's the element that I think they're missing is just like a total buy-in to the pairings and like a total buy-in to the pairings and like a plan in place.

And guys should know well in advance who's going to be kind of playing what matches. I thought this podcast was going to feel very cathartic, but it's getting more upset. We're an hour and 17 into this too. So we might have to wrap. I think it's the last question I had saved. Andrew James golf. This may seem crazy, but do you think it's possible that there wasn't all that much wrong with the US team Other than the fact they were outplayed and outpotted by the euros. I mean, it's golf. Sometimes you got your a game

Sometimes you don't I think we kind of covered that but like that's probably the main reason like as much as we want to break down reasons like Dustin Johnson Ricky Fowler Brooks Keppkin Tiger Woods are very good at getting the golf ball into the hole and they were not for this week. Yeah. And good to see it up that there's just a certain amount of element of just sack up and do it and they didn't. Like, I don't think there was some magical thing if you could have done to make them play better golf.

And that's kind of, that's why the US got beat so badly. Yeah. And I think that there's a momentum aspect to it that feels probably more real for the players than it does for the fans. When you can kind of hear the things going on around the golf course and you know that you have to put more pressure on yourself to play well because you can tell by the the sounds of some of the roars and stuff a few holes away that your teammates probably aren't doing well and I think all of that just kind of builds on itself and you know eventually it comes down to digging deep

and playing better golf, which it's easy for us to say because I'm not a professional golfer. I don't know what it feels like to be in that arena, but it comes down to it like who wants it more. And clearly the Europeans wanted it more. Yeah, there was just, I don't know. It was just amazing that Sergio played so poorly all year long and comes out and goes three and one.

And then there was the super predictable stuff, which was, you know, Tommy Fleetwood and Francisco Mollnar, maybe not predictable to them each going undefeated in the team formats, but you kind of knew that they were probably going to play well as a team. Yeah. And that's, yeah, I've done kind of making my course point. But like, is that, is that the best, that kind of answers the question. Like Tommy Fleetwoods, a world-class player for Jessica Monari's won the open championship this week. I had the best year of his career and has transformed his golf game. But like, you never won a better cup match before. Like I said, so I just don't know how

you could possibly prepare for that or predict that or think that that would happen. And that's the thing is like as well as Europeans played like you look at like their top players having like a losing record and being like whoa they could have put up 20 points on us like that it's just kind of jarring. So you're right this this podcast didn't make me feel any better. We're ready to put it behind us. I'm sure we'll get blown up all over Twitter for this, but that's this well listen. Like what did you expect coming for us coming into this tournament? Do you expect us to just be like, oh no, I don't know who's gonna win like we'll see what happens like that's not Fun for anybody. No, we thought the US is gonna win. We were wrong and we admitted it and I don't know what else you want from us

So roast away. This is off season is gonna be boring Go go listen to the Fred X Cup podcast because I'm fired up for like fall golf now We all have these Fred X Cup teams. So if you guys don't know what that is go the trap draw Podcast feed listen to that and try to find some you'll find some some rooting interest in some players And if you haven't listened to Maxwell my yet, you're I know what you're doing amazing I'm gonna try to really focus on turning on some good content for the European tour for the end of the race to do by, because there's some good tournaments coming up.

Walden Heath this week. Yeah. British Master's gonna be awesome. So, yeah, for anybody that said LaGolf Nation, that was a proper golf course, watch the British Master's this week. Walden Heath is a proper golf course. So, all right.

Let's let the raid come on in. course. So all right let's let the rain come on in. Yeah I feel like John Snow at the battle the bastards pulling the sword with all the with all the everyone charging at me. I'm not going to speak about the rider cup again until the year the calendar year 2020 so from here on out let's just let's just forget that this happened and move on with our lives. I'll be ready next week to start predicting who's going to be on the 2020 team. So all right right, thank you everyone for listening and listen to this rant, cheers, Cricon.

Cricon. Yeah. Let's give it a nice club. Be the right club today. Yes. Ready, that's better than most. How about it, yeah? That is better than most. How about in? That is better than most. Better than most.

Expect anything different?