No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 173: Zac Blair and Rob Collins on Sweetens Cove, and the building of The Buck Club

Episode Date: October 23, 2018

After spending the weekend at The Ringer at Sweetens Cove with Zac Blair and course architect Rob Collins, we caught up wit them on the masterpiece that is Sweetens, and to get updates on the... The post NLU Podcast, Episode 173: Zac Blair and Rob Collins on Sweetens Cove, and the building of The Buck Club appeared first on No Laying Up. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yeah. That is better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most! club, Mr. Rob Collins. We wanted to catch up with them to see what the status of the Buck Club is. A lot of people have a lot of questions about that. And we also spend a lot of time talking about Sweden's Cove. Of course, a lot has been written about Sweden's Cove over the last several years, but it is a pretty remarkable story about how this golf course

came to be. And having just left playing it all weekend, I was even more impressed the second time around. And it's a course that a lot of people have had a lot of good things to say about over the last several years, but wasn't really until this past trip that I really, really would say that I now get it and kind of see the genius behind it. So as best as we can, we try to talk to Rob about how it came together, and what

is inspiration's where the challenges that come within, how they're going to replicate that at the buck club in Utah and why Why Zach has employed Rob to help him with the project and help design it? So we we left again feeling pretty pretty inspired after talking to these guys and Hearing all they had to say this weekend and seeing seeing the actual layout and the plans for the buck club So hope it stands. There's a lot of questions that are out there about this golf course that does not fully exist yet Except on paper. So, before we get going, I want to make sure you guys check out Calloway's new golf

lives home course. It's original short films, and they set out to profile three unique golf locations around the country based on their stories, the communities, and the characters. The three stops are at Edgefield, which is a laid back golf course outside Portland. They got two par three courses there. 12 and 20 holes and a distillery bar as the pro shop. And then there's Langston. It's just about 15 minutes from the White House.

And it's known for its triumphant role in the desegregation of public golf. And lastly, is Wild Horse Golf Club. It's widely considered one of the top public courses in the country. And it was built by farmers in a community in Gothenburg, Nebraska. So the cultures across the series are remarkable. The cultures across the series are remarkably diverse and the courses are united by the passion of the players who

call them home. A lot like the golf courses that we're going to talk about on this podcast with Zach and Rob. So visit CallawayGolf.com slash golf lives to watch each episode of Golf Lives Home Course. Now let's get to the podcast. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No Laying Up podcast, Sully here, Tarran is here. We wanted to try to catch these two gentlemen this past weekend at Sweetens Cove at the Ringer.

We weren't able to make it happen, but we're joined by the co-architects of the Buck Club, Zach Blair and Rob Collins, am I saying that right? Yeah, that's right. So we want to talk a bit about, obviously we all went to the ringer at Sweetens Cove, Zach. I want you to first take us to why we were all meeting at Intenacy this past weekend, what you and Rob are working on, and why Sweetens cove has played a role in this.

For me, kind of I had this idea a few months back of trying to get a bunch of people that have been interested in the project and wanted to learn more about it or meet other people that have liked the whole idea behind TBC and try and get them in one place to just kind of, it was more honestly of like a networking event to meet some people that are interested and kind of share some ideas and hopefully those guys know a couple people that are interested where they can kind of tell them what went down and what they learned. And yeah, I mean, we chose Sweet and Scove. It was a perfect spot. You know, obviously Rob and Tad did an awesome job out there and it really showcases kind

of their ideas and their design philosophies. So it was a perfect place to hold that at. And everybody had fun, so it was great. Rob, I can't imagine how many times you've told the story, but a lot of people listening to this podcast, I'm sure I've been to Sweetens Cove, but I'm sure there's also a lot that have never been there. So I want you to take us there as to what it is,

what it was before you turned it into Sweetens Cove, and I can't imagine how many times you've told that story, but we'd love to hear it. Yeah, for sure. So this is, I'll kind of give you the Reader's Digest version. And if you want to, if you need any additional details, I can definitely fill you in. But so, Ted and I were hired in 2011 to rebuild the old Tacquatchy Valley off in Country Club. And there's still the hilarious blue sign up there that they are day opening day in 2014

Ari Techner of my one of my partners in Queens cove when I stuck this little sign down the road sign and that's kind of all part of it too but anyway Tattenay started in 11 we finished in 12 the guys who financed the construction, basically deciding that they didn't really want to deal with it. So they ended up leaving it to me and after a little bit of a negotiation period. I took it over with a group of partners in 2014 and we got it open. And as far as what it was like beforehand it was just a dead flat pasture land of Squatchy Valley golf course with just a really country flat golf

course and you know Tron called Swingscove like Disney lands and I mean that's basically I mean I think that's like the best like one word description of it I mean it that's basically, I think that's like the best, like one word description of it. I mean, it's kind of just all pulled out of thin air and in the middle of this random place. It's just, you know, a lot of fun shots, kind of different looking and, you know, things are, it's all my favorite stuff in architecture, just kind of blended up and put it out into one golf course. That's basically sweet and cold and we've been open now for almost exactly four years and Bringer was the perfect four year anniversary for us because it's unbelievable we can't. Rob, how did you find it in the first place?

I, you know, it's like the, I call it a big adult sandbox. As well, it's kind of the most fun you can have if you're a golfer. But how did you get set up at Sequatchee Valley in the first place? I really was desperate to get back into architecture. It's kind of a victim of the financial crisis in 2008. You know, my partner, Tat King and I and I had discussed going into business before and the financial crisis kind of forced our hand and we were like, screw it, let's do it.

So we went into business and we were really looking for a first course and I was doing anything I could to sustain the business. I really wanted to get involved with the project of the 20, which is a nine-hole course at Gilhans did. I actually went to Swanee, so I knew a lot about it. And I got in touch with this guy who was kind of running things up. The thing is King Himmig. He's kind of a local golfing legend in Chattanooga.

He was heavily involved with the Swanee project. And and he said I'd love to help you out. He didn't involve with that but I just heard about this new project down on the valley. The guys that owns Quatchy Concrete are thinking about doing something there. I'll put you in touch with them and one thing led to another. Could you have imagined that sweetens cove would have turned into what it is today? It's unbelievable. I mean, it's, you know, it's a little bit of a surreal feeling. I mean, because I live the whole story of it in the ups and downs. There's been a lot of uncertainty for the last six, seven years, you know, through construction and then the course, you know, getting left and then there was a gap in time where we had to take it over and you know, we went broke in 2014 right after we opened and then the fact that there's people from all over the country and the world there with Bissac and all you guys last week is just it's kind of hard to believe.

I mean after everything that we went through to get to that point it does blow my mind, but I will say that I was so intent on getting back into architecture and making a name for King Collins. The analogy I had in my mind, I've never really said this, so probably sound kind of obnoxious, but I wanted to give a crumpy and effort to it. This was going to be like my mind valley. I was going to tie out there if I had to to get one in the ground. And now there's no way in L law I was going to stop or quit. And somehow, some way made it happen.

And I knew it was good. And I knew that if it ever saw the lie today, people would really like it. But there was so much uncertainty and so much financial uncertainty that I didn't know if it ever would see the light of day. So that's really the amazing thing is that we've made it this far. But Zach, what was your your initial kind of reaction or did it? How did it differ from how people described it the first time you played it? I believe back in March or April of this year. Yeah, so I had you the first time you played it? I believe back in March or April this year.

Yeah, so I had heard a lot about it. I had actually talked to Rob and Tat kind of over Twitter and seen all the posts. Her to Andy talk about it. Her do you guys say how much you liked it? So I obviously had high expectations going in. And when you go there, it's kind of undescribable. How much fun it is, how many options there are on each hold. The green complexes and all the short grass everywhere. It's just so much fun.

It's so much different than what you see at really any other golf courses you go play, that it's kind of, I mean, it's just amazing. It's really cool. So, you know, I had already decided to bring Rob and Tat on to help with the Buck Club before I went in Saw Sweetens and literally like two holes in. Once I got out there, I was like, yeah, I made the right decision. So it was pretty cool. Well, broadly speaking, I know you were on the podcast

last year and we talked in some pretty good detail about the Buck Club, but kind of want to hear from you. For those that didn't maybe didn't hear that, what the Buck Club is, how you dreamed it up and kind of what the progress has been over the last year since we last discussed it on the podcast. Yeah, so the whole idea behind the place is to just bring a pure golf club to Utah. We don't really have anything that Cater's just strictly to golf, and we don't really have any place kind of like sweetens or like you know a

cal club or a whisper rock or you know where the kind of golf geeks can go nerd out and have fun and I thought it would be a perfect place just because there are a lot of people in Utah and around the area that appreciate that stuff so I thought it'd be cool to do that. You know, it's been kind of a project for the last You know six years I would say and it's picked up a lot of momentum over the last couple years and especially lately and Yeah, just basically looking for some investors and some people to help out but Everyone's kind of catching the buzz and kind of riding the wave right now So it's been really cool to see the progress.

And hopefully we can get something going here shortly. For those that haven't seen either play sweetens coves, it's pretty much at the bottom of a valley. And the buck club is very mountainous terrain. So it's very different to rains. But Rob, I want to know what you thought of what eventually would become sweetens the first time you kind of saw that land, how that went. Well, I came call me and said, Hey, Rob Rob let's go out there and check this place out.

We went out there and we're walking around and there was this old shed down there with a bunch of broken down equipment and you know we were just looking out this dead flat piece of ground with the open concrete ditch running down the middle of seven in a and I thought what in the hell are you doing with your life elucer? I mean this is not good. I mean this is where you've got to start. There's a problem and it was you know, Tadden and I have said this. I mean, it was the worst golf course I've ever seen. And that's not a hyperbolic statement. That's just what it was.

And we got the job. And the great thing about it was, it was a blank slate. And I don't know that, I mean, we could not, we got so lucky with our client, Reed, Thomas. I mean he just, he believed in us and he just was like, you know, he let us go out here and do that. I mean there's a lot of guys who are far more accomplished, you know, have a much bigger resume than us for a project that wouldn't get turned loose like that. So we were really, really lucky.

We'll have him believe in us and turn its loose. And we had some extraordinarily talented people helping us. And that thing, you know, Sweden's go, came out of that. But it wasn't, it wasn't, there was a tough beginning, I guess. We'll do that. And going from that kind of location to start with to a place like the buck club, are they opposite ends of the spectrum? Oh, totally. I mean, you look at the land at the buck club and you're just freaking out at the possibilities.

I mean, the whole that we call them mega redan, I mean, the first time we were out there last year and I'm hit the end of October. I mean it's obvious that it would say the same thing that that is already am. And it's just got this huge kicker on the right. There's like this perfect cliff where you can build a bunker. I mean you hardly have to do anything. And it's just Taylor made for this all-world redam. I mean you can be an idiot to not build a good redam there. So thrilling to be involved with this project is a place to have this much potential. I mean, it has got so much potential.

It's just, God, we get goosebumps just thinking about it. I guess the question for each of you, Rob, what have you learned from Zach or what are you most impressed with by Zach coming from a professional golf background and then conversely Zach what have you learned from Rob as this process has gone along? Well somebody asked me a question the other day kind of about how Zach and I work and I'll try to answer your question John. I'll start off by saying that back and I, oftentimes, feels

like we're kind of sharing a brain on this because we're basically mining the same well of information, the same pool of information. We like the same stuff. We're, you know, coming from the same place, like Dackel throw out an idea in Every single time I'm like wow, that's a phenomenal idea. Let's do it and so we're kind of we're in the same headspace and you know, I have learned From Zach I listen to him talk about how different ways to challenge the tour player and the better player. It's kind of solidified, I believe, that one thing I don't think of a lot of modern golf courses get right is the dynamic of

how playability versus penalty works. And, you know, I am all for a very, very playable golf course. Tweeting the code is, as you guys know, a very, very playable golf course. But, you can get ejected. I mean, if you get in the wrong position. And I think that's a really important dynamic that you have to maintain. I mean, that's where the thrill of golf comes in. It's in the thrill of challenging that hazard

or challenging that contour and being successful. And if you're not successful, bang the price. So, you know, Zach, in the way he looks at things and his belief that, you know, you need to have that dynamic is strengthened, you know you need to have that dynamic. His strength and you know that that belief in me and I think that that's a place where Zach really excelled because he could hit shot at the rest of his cant pit, so for maybe solely and um and you know it's he thinks about things and understands how you can challenge the lead player, but at the

same time give other people a chance. I think that's going to be a really cool dynamic at the Book Club. And Zach, going to you, what have you learned from Rob through this process? Well, I would say first off, originally when I had this idea, you know, the first couple of years, I had kind of said, hey, I'm going to do this thing on my own. We're not going to hire an architect. You know, we don't, we don't need one. You know, I can do this myself. And I feel like I could have done it myself. But after talking to Rob, you know, via Twitter,, that's literally how they started. I was asking him ideas and asking him what he thought and just random chats on Twitter,

every couple of weeks. Then hearing about Sweetens Co from people that I trusted their opinions, we need to get these guys out here and at least see what they think, meet them. And I would say within like 30 minutes of needing those guys and talking to Rob and getting on the, you know, on the site, walking around, I was like, okay, like screw my idea of like doing it by myself. Like this guy is like the guy I want to bring in. And he mentioned that, you know, we think very, we think very similarly, we have a lot of ideas

that are the same and like he said, when I say something and he's like, man, that's a good idea. He does the exact same thing like every time we talk. And we talk about this every single day. So it's pretty cool to have somebody like that. We have the same design philosophies about making courses playable and making them fun enough for the average golfer, but hard enough for players that are good.

And I mean, that's the thing that Utah for sure is definitely missing, and it's missing in a lot more places than Utah, but we have nothing even on the same level as something like Sweetens' Cove. And if we can build something like that, 18 holes, or however whatever we're going to do out at TBC, it's going to be a home run and people are gonna travel from all over the world to come play it like they do at Sweden. So I'm very proud to have Rob and Tad on board and it's been really cool working with him. I mean, Rob talked about how he may, how sweetens was kind of his version of Pine Valley with compared to Crump and how it was kind of his version of Pine Valley with, you know, compared to Crump and how it was

kind of his brainchild and he literally died on property working on it and trying to make that happen. And, you know, that's kind of what we've done with TBC. It's something that we do every day talk about all the time. And, you know, we've got so much blood, sweat, and tears into this thing in this whole design process that I think it's going to really blow people away with you know when it's finished and when they see it. I want to piggyback on some Zach was saying right there and you know that is it I mentioned that to Zach when I was in Utah I I was fortunate that we first got approached in July of 2010

and there was kind of this relationship with the client that didn't formalize for like eight months. So I had like eight months to dream about it and each hole that we didn't go with through like four or five iterations and like the first versions of the holes I thought were were really good. But in hindsight, they weren't anywhere near as good as what turned out. In that sort of baking process that it went through, really made help make Sweden's code what it is. It gave me time and it gave Tad and I kind of formulate this full-on plan and

in result was much better and I'm sure that wishes and some respects that the TVC was already built and we were doing this podcast from the portion of the clubhouse but the time that it's taken to go through things and you know each time Zach throws out an idea it's infantile better you know some fear he just incrementally just keeps getting better better better and and now we're finally at a place where I really think we have a plan that's mature and has kind of gone through the process and gone through the necessary revision. I mean, it's like writing a book in some regard. I mean, you know, you don't go with your rough draft. I mean, this is a fully-baked concept.

And it's money. I mean, it will, we're gonna kill it. I mean, I'm not joking. I said, I walked away from this weekend just feeling inspired. Like, I think Zach, when we talked last fall, I mean, you had ideas for holes, you had sketches, you knew kind of what you wanted to do, but is it fair to say, like, you didn't have this concept that currently exists. And if I'm

right, and if I'm right in saying all 18 holes, and even some bonus holes are laid out and like set in stone for what you guys are going to do. Is that right? Yeah, yeah. We have like a, you know, a championship style routing that you can go play 18 holes. We also have, you know, some fun holes that kind of, you can play if you want. You can kind of go do whatever you want. This idea that we have right now with this place is pretty outrageous. You know, we got like 22 green complexes, a ton of fairway, big, putting surfaces, and you know, you can go play it like I said, like a normal 18-hole golf course, or you know, if it's not busy, you can go out there and kind of treat it like a big putting green and just go play to whatever hole you want.

And that's one cool thing that they offer out at Sweetens Cove. And it's just something you don't see that often. And it's something that I think takes a lot of thought and a lot of, you know, it takes a lot of thought to pull something like that off. And like Rob was saying, you know, this thing has gone through the ringer and just, you know, iteration after iteration changed and gotten better and kind of matured to where it is now. And, you know, it's at the point now where, you know, if we can get some funding, you know, we're going to have one of the best golf courses in the world,

which will be fun. As far as once you do get that funding locked up, when you do get that funding locked up, what do you envision the membership model or whether it be semi-private or private or kind of an English, Scottish style club set up? Describe that for us. Yeah, you know, the one thing that I've always wanted, I've always wanted a great national and international membership. We wanted at a price point that is extremely doable for people all around the world and all

around the country to be able to come in and show this place off to their friends and bring groups out, kind of like they do at Sweden's Cove, and have this course ready to play for a bunch of people and just so everyone can come in and have fun. So I guess to answer your question, looking for a big national membership and hopefully people will be down for that and come out and support and join the club and bring a bunch of their friends and go have fun. So would you will need a member invite to get out to play any unaccompanied rates or anything that's going to kind of follow like the sandhills model or any or a Terry ED model or anything like that? Yeah, you know the sandhills model, I'm a little familiar with it, not so much, I'm not as familiar with the Terry ED model, but, but we definitely want to offer an option for people

to come play it. That's how you get a good national membership, I think, is by allowing some sort of access for people to get out there and play it. Because I think it's going to be a type of place where if you can go out and play it or if you get the chance to go and play it, you're definitely going to leave being like, okay, how do I make this work? Like, this is something that I need to have work. So yeah, definitely think you'll have the ability to see it and play it and hopefully want to join right after you're done. Playing the Devil's advocate role here and I'm going to take the role of an online hater, which I'm sure there are at least some on Twitter that kind of are very skeptical about this coming together and a lot of people, some of the reactions I get is like, what are

you wearing there? What hat is that? Oh, it's the butt club. Where's that? Well, it's going to be in Utah because you have an entire merchandise line belt. Every piece of swag you could imagine exists for this golf course that does not yet exist. What is the purpose, I guess, of all of the extracurricular stuff that has come with this project or with the buck club gear and all of the hype? What is that? What are you doing that for and what's that doing for the buck club?

Well, for me, I kind of just went in saying, like, okay, I have this idea. I really think it's going to work, but I don't have the money to pull something like this off by myself. How can I, you know, spread the word and get this idea out there for somebody that hopefully falls in love with it. And my idea was like, let's make this brand and push this stuff out there, get people talking about it, get people wearing it, get people loving this idea. And that's kind of just what I did.

I started off with hats. And the first couple, I guess, months or first year or two, when I was selling this stuff, I think there were a lot more haters and a lot more people that were very skeptical of this idea of like, oh my God, who would wear a shudder hat from a course that doesn't exist. But I would say now, that idea is pretty laughable to think at, I have people coming up to us all the time. Being like, where can I buy this hat? Where can I buy this shirt?

How do I get in on this? Tell me more about it. And it's been this gorilla marketing effort just getting the word out there and casting this huge net out in the golfing world and just hopefully somebody bites and catches on, falls in love with it and wants to be a part of it. Zach, what's the status of the land that you have out in Utah right now?

Do you have a purchase? Do you give an option on it? How's that work? Yeah, working on it right now. One of the partners came out to the ringer had a great time and kind of I think it was a real eye-opening experience for him to kind of really fully realize like wow this isn't just like some kids idea with you know a couple of friends from Utah you know he saw 60 plus people from around the world come out and support this event, you know, for a golf course that doesn't exist. And not only that, there were hundreds of people who had, you know, who were on a waiting list, I mean, who is an unbelievable response.

Yeah, so, so I think we're going to get in some, you know, serious conversations in the next few days with the landowners. And hopefully we can lock something up. And Mike, we said, just still looking for people to come help out and jump on board. I think we have a real unique opportunity offering something that not too many places can offer, getting in kind of on a ground level and being involved in a process of building and joining a club that really has a chance to be one of the more special projects in the last, you know, 20 to 30 years of golf. And Rob, you touched on this a little bit in Zach.

I want to hear from you next on this because you've done a basically a shitload of travel around the world to learn from a lot of different places. But Rob, I know we talked some about what your inspirations were for sweetens cove, some of those courses. But is there anything else you're drawing inspiration for in the building of the butt club that you've seen? Well, I think that Zach and I have to share a mutual affinity for national golfing in the old course. I mean, there's an exact one degree that there's a whole lot of the old course and a whole lot of national kind of baked into the bucklobe. One of the things I think will be really cool about how that all shakes out in the field. You know, it's

just back and tat and I kind of massage things in, is that you may not look at something and go, oh that's like you know the 14th hole at the old course or that's like you know number three at national, there's gonna be like little bits and pieces of it and kind of expressed in a different unique way. It's mainly taking the underlying lessons from those types of places and applying them to the amazing piece of property that we've identified and all this time, you know, coming up with this plan on. And Zach, where, what have you seen that's just kind of like, has really sat with you, really resonated with you or anything maybe you've seen in the last year that has changed

what you thought you might do with the buck club? You know for me It it's just I've had the opportunity and it's been lucky enough to travel and play the best golf courses around the world and my idea kind of from the get-go was to go to these places and see what makes them great, see what makes these holes great, or see what makes these clubs the way they are, and just kind of cherry-pick ideas and philosophies from each place and throw them all into one huge pile

and just make this amazing club. And as far as the golf course, I would say, you know, our trip down to Australia, you know, going over to Scotland one more time and just seeing how amazing, like, short grasses has really been pumped into TBC over the last couple of months. I've just like, you know, kind of taken some bunkers out around the greens and, you know, making it more short grass, just giving people more options and some different playability that they won't see necessarily too many places in the states. I think that's kind of one thing that will be a definite tone set

or something that sets it apart from other clubs and it's going to be really cool to see how it shakes out. Zach on that on that subject from an agronomy perspective what kind of grass do you have out in Utah and you know can you get it as nippy and as firm as you need to to play like you want it to. Yeah, I think a big thing for me and Rob and some other people that are involved is definitely playability of the golf course. You have all these ideas and you want them to play a certain way.

And in order to do that, we're not blessed with being on some sand dunes, like in sand hills or on the coast of somewhere with some real sandy property, we're going to have to, you know, spend some money and bring in some sand into sandcap to place more and making sure we can get it firm and fast because that's kind of an underlying principle that needs to happen in order for the course to play well. Because we want it to play firm and fast. And as far as the grass goes, I think we're going to have to do some testing and see what works. But as far as I'm concerned, there are places in Utah that you can get really firm and

fast. I'm excited to see what route we go with that. I think people will be pretty happy when they see it finish. Having spent now, I guess, four or five full days at Sweetens, what's your favorite hole out there? For me, five is pretty ridiculous. I think that's one of the five and seven, I would say, are two of the best short part fours in the entire world.

Describe them for us. Five, you know, five, how long is five Rob like three? It's like five like two eighty three from the tips two nine something like that. Like way way back like we were playing it. we played it a lot this weekend from like it's kind of fun playing it from like 2.42 to 75 probably as long as we played it this weekend. Yeah so it's you know under you know sub 300 big fairway but like you know you're always going for the green it seems like and there's one big giant you know not giant there's one bunker right in the middle of the green it seems like and there's one big giant, you know, not giant. There's one bunker right in the middle of the green basically that the green wraps around it and the green's built up, you know, 10 feet, probably 8 to 10 feet, falls off, you know, all directions.

And, you know, the internal contours on the green that kind of let you, you know, allow you to play balls to the right side of the grain that will feed around the bunker kind of these to these back left pins, you know, it's pretty it's a pretty brilliant hole that's like so easy and tell you screw up and then it's just like disasters lurking everywhere. Like we have we have we put a couple of pins kind of left this week over this bunker that were so nasty like I think a couple people died in the bunker. There have been so many good ejection videos showing up on Twitter. I was walking a couple of days up Peter Smith and Jim Hartz Hartz, the amazing ejection ever.

Yeah, I mean, it's just such a cool hole. And like I said, it's just like, it's so easy. It's like, you know, the greens, the greens pretty big. How many square feet is that? Like eight or not, you know, like 8,000 square feet, probably? Yeah, you've had something like that. I mean, yeah, a lot of room to hit your ball, but the second you miss, it's just like the second you miss on that hole, you you kind of told Rob in this whole design process.

That's the type of stuff you want. You want options and you want holes to be scoreable. But when somebody screws up and gets aggressive and misses in a wrong spot or or tries to hit a miracle shot, if they don't pull it off, you kind of want a punch in the face. That's kind of a hole like that. And then seven is another hole, you know, probably like three 30 driveable little teeny green. It's kind of like, I would say, got, has some pine herds number two in it, like a, like a bowl turned over, falls off on all sides. And I mean, I don't know if I've ever seen like so many people get ejected as I saw. You know I personally I that whole like haunts my dreams. I don't think I I figured out I

probably play that whole 50 or 60 times now. I don't think I've ever figured out how to play it correctly. I've gone I've gone 70 yards left. I've gone down the adjacent fairway on the right side. I've hit an eight iron off the tee. I've hit driver over the green. It's like I've been searching and searching and searching. And there's no recipe for it. You just got to sack up and hit two good shots.

Yeah, exactly. That's exactly the perfect way to describe that. You could hit nine 9-9 off the tee, you could hit driver, you know, or whatever you do, you just have to kind of like say, okay, I'm going to hit it in the middle, or in the middle front or the middle back, wherever the pin is, and just try and make a putt because that hole, you know, anytime the pin is not in the center of the green, any time it's around the sides or the edges, if you try and take it on and you miss, you know, you're staring like double or triple in the face, you can just hit it back and forth all day.

But if you went into that hole saying like, okay, I'm going to hit driver down the right and have a 70 yard shot or a 60 yard shot And I'm just going to hit it to the middle of the grain. I would say you'd make par like 90 5 to 99% of the time if you hit a decent shot. If you execute that hole, yeah, yeah, yeah, but that hole is so tempting to go for the pin. You know, you have such a short shot. It doesn't look as intimidating as it really is. The second you go for it and miss, you just kind of get ejected. That's the perfect, I mean, that's what you want engulfed though.

And that's what we want to do at TBC is, and that hole is surrounded the pullway, short grass around the entire hole. There's no greenside bunkering. There is the you know there is the big bunker short left like in the fairway but that hole you just are presented with so many options and you know you can drive the green and make eagle or you can you know try and drive the green and make a seven so it's pretty cool. I was shocked this weekend. How many people we played a four club round, you know, competition. And I was shocked at how many people scored better during the four club competition than they did with a full bag. It was just like taking, you know, like making them do a certain

thing and committing in committing to it instead of instead of trying to decipher how to play it and then not being committed to a shot, and if solid you were blown away at how well you played with the four clubs. It might just be a four club player now. It works so well at sweetens. I mean, it is kind of like a, I mean, at one point I had to decide

between hitting a driver into a par five or a nine iron with a two clubs between, and I said like, I had to punch a driver and like try to use a slope to kill it into the bank. And when I executed that one, that more joy than I ever would have experienced if I had to hit like the six iron that I probably needed to. So one thing you guys introduced this weekend

to for our competition. So for the ringer, you know, 60 people are playing in this event and we did like all kinds of different formats, stablefords, you know, four club challenge, a team event. But I've never seen this where you introduce two different pins and the stableford points were different. If you went for the colored flags, it was more points than the easy pins. And for a golf course that already presents just a million options, I was overwhelmed with the option, like three different times the pen, the front pen on one. I said, this is the hardest pen I've ever seen, and I ended up getting goaded into going for it all three times. How did that process

come together of coming up with that format? For me, you know, I went in thinking like, sweetens has these very unique green complexes that there's a lot of really easy pins like in bulls and then there's a lot of pins that are on, you know, totally flat parts of the green, but are like surrounded by death. And I was like, this course would present so well with multiple pins out there. You know, you, because we were only there for two days and we played golf, basically sun up till sun down, both days. But at a truly great golf course and a place like Sweden's Cove, you have to keep playing it over and over to really see different things.

Every time you play it, you learn new things or see different stuff. So I thought it would be a cool way to kind of show the course off even better than it shows off with one pin. And I think people really, really loved that format and it was really cool. And I mean, that's another thing at TVC. I think we should do that. A couple of times a week have multiple pins out there. the greens are so big And they're you know, they're the idea behind them is to allow so much a variety that it's pretty fun to go do something like that It was really cool going around with people who had never played the course before and like a number four The front pin on Saturday. It was I think it was like a hundred yards.

It's 83 yards. It was a hundred yards between the flags. Between the flags. The front pin was like 83 and then the back one's like 170, something like that. And Rob, what was it like, I guess having 60 people or 60 or so people come in from pretty much everywhere to play this golf course after all.

You guys have been through. And could you have ever really pictured a picture of Sweden's cove becoming what it has become. That was just the biggest thrill for me. I'm pretty much on a shitty degree on my face the whole weekend. I mean the fact that there were 60 people there just having the best time and enjoying the golf course in the way that was intended to be enjoying was unbelievable thrill for me. And you know the way that it was intended to be enjoyed with unbelievable thrill for me. And, you know, the games that Zach and Manter Mike came up with were so clever and so much

fun. I mean, I've played that golf course tons of times and Patrick's played it like a thousand times. And like I was talking to Patrick, I mean, we were seeing shots in different things that we've never experienced before because we were like playing from one pin to like, like playing from one T to a pin that we've never seen. Like that pin that was on one, that front left pin, I've never seen that before. And, you know, I shot the worst round, I've probably shot there maybe, maybe ever in the stable performance because I was being aggressive on every single one. I just, I was just getting ejected on every single hole.

And the more I got ejected, the more I was like, well, I've got to go for it because I'm so far out of it. I've got to get five points, you know? So that was like a really fun dynamic. And I just, the whole thing was, it was the most fun I've ever had playing golf. I just, I can't thank Zach enough and all you guys and everybody who came together, it was, it was so fun. I mean, I think the quote of the weekend for me was, somebody said, what happened? What's the disaster plan of something happens to golf Twitter? You know, like a catastrophic event in Queens County. Like

For good. Every much everybody was gonna be gone. That was it was just amazing having Everybody out there. I just It was the incredible Rob when you're designing a whole like Like number four like the green out there number four like at any point where you did anybody pressure you to Soften it or tell you that you are absolutely insane And then and and and and B has that Have you brought that mentality anything that you learned from that into the buck Club where you know now you're like all right People told me I was insane and then I built it and then now everybody's like oh this this whole is awesome

You kind of bring that confidence. It's almost like an irrational confidence. Yeah, to be clear you are insane But like the right just the right amount Yeah, no, I mean absolutely. I mean I totally agree with you all I mean there is definitely a touch of insanity out there Adam Lawrence have the English golf writer had the best wine ever the first time he saw he's like bloody hell Rob I've seen a Himalayas grain but never on the golf course And so you know I will totally compete and I've said this before that I had you know several sleepless nights during construction In particular when we were building number three. I was just like oh we've we've got a reward you know it's but you know we were trying to touch the line but not go past it and you have to give a ton of credit to a

tad my partner in the in the finish work you did an absolutely amazing job finishing those grains so that they maintain their playability. All of our pinnacle areas are really subtle. A lot of the contours outside the grain are kind of on the edges of the grain are big transitions, but once you're in the right spot, you're going to be okay. So you can go from one part of the grain to the neck, and so most of the time stay on if you hit a good shot, you'll be okay. And so you can go from one part of the grain to the neck and still most of the time stay on it. If you hit a good shot, you'll be rewarded. So it maintains its playability

because of in large part because of the tab skill, but also because I mean, there was a ton of attention to detail, they just in the regular shaping process and the construction process to make sure that we didn't come untethered and just just flowed away into the ether. I mean we had to keep it grounded in the fundamentals of good architecture. We were definitely trying to push the envelope. I mean I you know there was a couple times I was a little nervous. I mean I was a little nervous

home for the guy that shaped the whole. He does for like the fifth or sixth grain he had built and he and I were like really on the same page at that point. And we was just a bunch of dirt out there. And we kind of, I painted the outline of the grain kind of new where it was going to go. Had it some basic ideas. And he's like, Rob, man, just let me go fucking crazy here. Okay. I'm like, all right, got go for it man and and that's that's what came out you know and that's what you have to do with like really talented people like us and and other people you know you have to get them to buy into the vision and you have to trust them and understand you know no as long as they're working working in a box that part of the overall vision that you want,

you just let those guys go. And if they're still working in that box, if drawing from the same well information that you're drawing from, you know, you're 99% of the time you're going to get a great result. And it's more fun for goods too, you know, because you've got freedom and you can have fun. And if there's something that's not right, I mean, you know, you change it. Like, on number four, for instance, I thought that the back of the grain during construction was too severe and there weren't enough pinnacle areas in gods. It's like, Rob, come on, this strength's like 20,000 square feet.

I'm like, no, man, we gotta, got to mallow it out in a couple spots. And those are like the little changes, the little details that you make. You know, everything was like 99% perfect. We just needed to like, we could just attach and we did. And then that came in and like finished off this perfect grain. And now it's like, it's like one of the coolest grains I've ever seen. It's like it's more similar to a native American like serpent Mounding like burial ground than any group any golf course I've ever seen Like compared more to that than a golf course. It's awesome. It's like my favorite all in the world

Number number four is your favorite tron. I yeah, I mean, I love five, but four is... Yeah, I mean, that's cool to hear, because I love hearing people say they're favorite hall. And a lot of times, that's like one of my favorite things, is that, you know, people always say a different hall, and I think that's really cool. I think it's a different hall every time I've played it. I mean, for some reason, I love two, especially that bottom, that bottom bowl pin there on two.

Oh, yeah. Five is always incredible fun, but eight, when you, especially when you put the pin right there in the middle of the beards there, that one's an absolute blast. And that's what's cool. What's one about playing two pins at once, like we did, is that fourth green, it's basically like five greens in one. I mean, you can make 20 different golf holes out of one golf hole. And for a place that's only nine holes, I think, that along with all the cross country holes, which we haven't really even talked about.

Just to say, I think my favorite hole's one of the cross country holes, but I won't get into that. And that's just kind of what makes this place just this, that we're saying like a huge sandbox is, you know, yeah, you need the variability when you have a nine hole course to really take it to the next level.

And that's what you guys done. But if we're sitting here, it's October 22nd, 2018. I hope like 40 years in the annual somebody will uncover this podcast and hear this about the building of the butt club. But you're gonna answer it now. What is a realistic expectation for shovels going in the ground at the butt club date wise?

I mean, I think when snow melts in 2019. Really? Yeah, I mean, we've got a lot of momentum right now, you know, a couple of the partners of the land are a lot more on board, I think, after seeing what's been going on the last little while and coming out to the ringer. And just, you know, a lot of people have just kind of offered their word, just said that they want it to happen that they'll be willing to kind of sack up and do what they need to do. So we've had a lot of positivity behind this thing so we're ready to get it rolling. Zach, how do you balance your golf career with that timeline or just with the buck club in general? How do you know, especially

with that timeline or just with the buck club in general. How do you know, especially may, we'll just say May 1st next year, shovels are in the ground, you've got, you know, you got, that's kind of the, you're on the web tour primarily next year, that's kind of your big time of the year. How do you, how do you square those two things? Yeah, I just kind of play better, I guess.

I can take more time on to get this thing done. At the end of the day, you know, something like this is, you know, bigger than some, some, some bigger than golf almost, you know, it's kind of a chance to build something that not a lot of people get to do. You know, there's a lot of great golfers in the world. There's probably fewer, really unbelievable places, at least in America. So it's a cool opportunity for sure.

What on the financial front, how much do you need, how close are you, what else do you need on the monetary front to really push this thing through? One, we definitely need to lock this thing up with the partners at the land to see what we can do there, which I think we're on the right track. And then there are a few different options. We either need somebody with super-to-come-in and fall in love with the project and want to do something like this. Or we need kind of a lot of people to step up and get involved, founding members and stuff like that. But we've had both sides of that kind of reach out and show interest.

So now we just need people to step up. Well, last thing, once you plug will, what you got going on with the online auction here, what's up for BID and what all that is going towards. Yeah, so we got this online auction going on, we got some rounds at some really good clubs around the world. We got some pretty unique, one of a kind,

pieces of artwork and some putters that were specially made for the event, you know, some irons that are custom for anybody who wins them. But all of that stuff is going to kind of the planning and development and the things that we need to kind of get in place as far as like Rob and Tad did this master plan kind of for free or did it before they got paid you know which isn't like you know master plans aren't cheap. Stuff like that for, you know,

that I think you need to be able to show people serious investors and stuff like that. So, you know, that stuff's going to pay Rob and Tad. Future site visits, bringing people out and just kind of the planning and development to make this thing actually happen. I guess last question, Ryan, what, uh, what hole for each of you guys? What hole are you most excited about?

It's on the current current plan. I mean, for me, um, it's, it sounds crazy, but literally every single hole. I'm not, no, I'm not letting you have the hook like that. One hole, one hole. I'm pretty excited to see number seven, to be honest. It's this big Cape style hole. The green kind of hangs out over the edge of this cliff. Kind of three sides of the green fall off, way down this mountain, it's like 390,

but you can drive it kind of everything that lands into like 260 to 270 area gets this massive kick and goes towards the green but at the same time if you try and bite off more than you can handle you could probably like get lost in the sauce out there for sure. Rob what about you? Well I'll answer two different holes, one for me and one for Todd. I know that Todd is like over the moon excited about shaping the sit well grain. There's a grain that's inspired by McKenzie's famous sit well hole. Our version is going to be probably pushing an acre inside. I mean, it's going to be like twice as big as the big grain of sweeten.

And it's going to be so big to an age in wild. I mean, it's going to be close to 40,000 square feet. And it's just going to be cascading up this hill. I mean, it's just going to be utterly jaw-dropping when it's done in one of the coolest holes in the entire world. For me, I was going to say seven, I think that's a really good one. Number nine, the little short hole kind of encapsulates a lot of the stuff that's going to have been talking about. There's little downhill shot. We're going to build this big barrenca like think little downhill shot. We're going to build this big baranca like think L.A. Country Club or something like that, you know, kind of a natural drainage wash area. And this short hole

kind of inspired by the one in National Sits in the middle of the baranca. In like plus at Hampo, you know, there's these gnarly bunkers that are kind of crawling up out of the barank and, you know, throwing into the green and then right behind the green is number 10, T and it's all just this island in the barank and not exactly our real sticklers about transitions between golf holes. That's one thing that we both pay a lot of attention to, like really good golf forces. They like nail the transitions between holes. It's like it's so good it makes you want to go crazy. And like that that has like maybe the coolest transition on the golf course. Plus it's got the chance of like a birdie or maybe a hole in one if you step up and

hit the great shot. Or it's going to be like total ejection city. If you if you don't hit the shot, I mean, it's kind of got all the dynamics I think that whole is going to be amazing. Well speaking for both of us using some words of wisdom that I just learned today I think I let me say just just go fucking nuts guys just go do it. I love it. Yeah so we're excited. I love it.

I love it. Congratulations on a great week Zach and Rob and for all you guys have done. And I think you're doing to get this project off the ground. I know a lot of people think it might not happen, but I left feeling pretty motivated and inspired to do anything I can to help make it happen. It sounds like it's going to be a real special place in the golf world. So thank you guys for taking the time to walk us through it, and for giving us a great weekend of golf.

Awesome. Thanks for all your support, guys. It was great hanging out. You. Thanks for all your support guys. Great hanging out. Yeah, thank you guys. Appreciate it. You know, we got to work on those handy caps next year. I won the course, man. It wasn't even that.

Oh my God. You can't sandbag when you win it. Groly, solely took off the big toys. Listen, listen, all the ones that you would let me take home. And, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, Alright guys thanks a good time cheers cheers see you later. Cheers Be the right club today That's better than most That is better than most Better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most.

Expect anything different.