No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 177: Maverick McNealy

Episode Date: November 12, 2018

Stanford standout, and fresh off his rookie campaign on the Web.com Tour, Maverick McNealy joins to talk about his golf career. From walking on at Stanford, to winning the Haskins Award, and tying Tiger Woods’... The post NLU Podcast, Episode 177: Maverick McNealy appeared first on No Laying Up. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Our guest today is Maverick McNeely and Maverick, you're known for a lot of things, but I think what most people would know you for is your junior shootout win at the web.com tour championship this past year. I know you've lifted a lot of trophies, but I want you to talk about how much that win at the web.com tour championship this past year. I know you've lifted a lot of trophies, but I want you to talk about how much that win meant to you. Well, you know, it was massive is to end the year without a win would have been so disappointing, but to be able to come out on top with that one, that we really, you know, and at the tour championship that it just made my year.

I mean, you, I could champions are determined on the Mondays of the of the final tournament of the year as we do. So for that for those that aren't clear on that Maverick and I and were teammates with a couple juniors to win to win a I think there's only four teams in it but we managed to win it in a playoff. Mostly thanks to Tron putting in the chip off putting it into a bunker from 50 yards. Yeah, that was a low light, but you know, all right. One of our partners did hit it to about six inches and I just didn't want to follow that. So I was going to say we can't take too much credit for it because the I think she was about a 14 year old girl

ended up winning the chip out for us. But all joking aside, you were a former number one ranked amateur in the world. You had insane college career at Stanford and you recently just finished your rookie year on the web.com tour. We'll get to a lot of that stuff. But first, I want to kind of get some background, how you got started in golf, what your upbringing was like, and how you ended up where you are. Yeah, so, you know, for me, everything kind of starts with my family. I have three younger brothers, mom and dad, and my dad taught all of us how to play golf, all five of us.

And if you saw us all play, you'd realize my brothers and I all get it from our mom. She hits it about 250 down the middle on a string. She'd rather aim for a sand trap. Or sorry, she'd rather aim for the water than a sand trap because you don't have to hit it out of the water. And she's broken 84 times, and she's never played golf until she met my dad.

But my 300 brothers are all great players too. The middle two are at Stanford. The second one's on the team at Stanford, Dakota. Third one, Colt is an amateur, plays amateur golf. He's a computer science major as well at Stanford and he made the cut at the Monterey open and the North Cow open. So he's pretty solid players well.

And the youngest one's scout is a senior in high school about to play for Baylor next year. So we're pretty solid players well. And the youngest one scout is a senior in high school about to play for Baylor next year. So we're such a tight family. My three brothers and I all grew up sleeping in the same room. We all played ice hockey. A ton of other sports growing up. And it's really a family deal. That's that's how I got into the game. And you know, the six of us will play 18 holes in three and a half hours. Is it six of them? When was what was your junior career like? When did you know that you kind of had an exceptional talent and we're going to play at many different levels after that?

So I played more ice hockey than golf grown up, honestly. Yeah, I played, I didn't play outside of California until my junior year high school. Wow. And I got two offers to play in college. One was from Gonzaga University and one was from Stanford. And that was just just to be on the team, not even scholarship, just because I didn't play any age AGA's. I didn't play outside of California. I just played the North Cal junior tour and got my head beat in by Bryson D. Chambo and Karen Champ and a ton of

other guys. And but I played mostly hockey and I think the reason I actually was recruited to Stanford is I was paired with Coach Ray in my freshman year of high school in the state amateur qualifier. I was 311, which was absolutely careering it for me at that point. I choked it back to even par and then I made it in a playoff, 4 for 1 playoff, the 6th hole at San Jose Country Club. I sniped a 3 wood about a fairway and a half left in the playoff zone, and had a perfect gap through the trees, hit a wedge, about 6 feet and made it. Actually, one of the other guys in playoff was my future assistant coach,

Graham Rockington, who is on the team. But that's just the lucky circumstance that allowed me to be recruited to Stanford because I had no pedigree as a junior. I went to school thinking I'd pro golf wouldn't even really be an option. So it wasn't until later. Probably got my junior year that I thought this might actually be something that I could do. And we'll get into some of talking to you during that web.com tour championship

week about how things were reported about your debating whether or not to play professional golf was we'll get into some of that. But so you show up at Stanford not on scholarship and what was your freshman year like when were you on scholarship and then it kind of explain well let you brag on it. And if not I'll list off you the here, but explain kind of what your early career was like at Stanford. Yeah. Well, when I showed up at Stanford, I was a hockey player that played golf.

That's, that was my mindset. That was what I was in high school. And I was just really excited to be on the team. I thought being a Stanford athlete was the coolest thing ever. My polo shirts were like jerseys. I wouldn't a stand athlete was the coolest thing ever. My polo shirts were like jerseys. I wouldn't let them touch the floor. Everything was perfectly folded. My red backpack was sacred. I was just so excited to be at Stanford having grown up 10 minutes from campus and wanting to go there my whole life. And watching, honestly, I watched every

single team for the last 10 years because I practiced at Stanford go through and I had, I used Rob Groobie's old bag. He was throwing it away. It was this faded pink Stanford bag when he got his update. And I used that for a year and a half in junior golf and did mine when every starter in junior golf was confused when they announced Maverick MacNeely with Rob Groobie written on the bag, but that's all right. So that was my, and I remember thinking to myself, if I qualify for two events my freshman year, that would be a great year. Because we had Patrick Rogers and Cameron Wilson, the two best players in college golf.

David Boot, straight off of five top 10s his freshman year. Virat Badwar, who you know, became my friend in roommate and And he was the best international recruit from Australia top 10 in the world and Jim Blue was the best US recruit and he won the US junior at 14 years old younger than Tiger did when he won So I was just thinking how am I ever gonna crack this lineup? but I Actually one tied for the win and qualifying in my second event. Oh, actually, more fun story.

First day on campus, I was so nervous before I first ran a qualifying at Stanford that I tried to force down one extra pancake in the dining hall. And I was a little bit, I mean, I just walked straight outside the door, straight to the trash can, and just deposited my breakfast in the trash can. And I still remember Ferrat's face just looking at me from the door going, oh my god, dude, are you OK? I feel better now.

And shot a miraculous one over. It didn't qualify. That was for just qualifying. Yeah, that was the only time I've ever thrown up before golf. I've been close a couple times, but that's the only time I've actually thrown up because I was so nervous. And I've come a long way since then, but I ended up qualifying for most events.

The last event I didn't qualify for was Las Vegas. I was so mad that I played while the team was away for five days. I played Stanford Golf Course every single day and texted Coach MyScore's every single day. I think I shot between 65 and 68 for five days in a row. Coach put me in for the home tournament the next week and I finished top 10. I had three top 10s to finish my freshman year. Probably the biggest heartbreak was semi-finals in the national championship against Oklahoma State. I was playing Taylor Gout who was a fifth year senior at that point, probably about six years older than me, not quite. But we were locked in a dead heat in the third playoff hole. He made a 25 footer on me,

and we ended up losing by one point in the semi finals, the national championship. But that was my freshman year. And then I just remember having a good summer, but not a great summer. I will actually five days after that, I blacked out and qualified for the US Open at Pinehurst. So that was what it's going to say. There was something in there

between there. Yeah, I had a stretch of six holes where I went for five holes where I went 600 par. I lipped out a pitching wedge and a through it and back to back holes made birdie and ugl. And then promptly missed a two footer on the next hole because I could I couldn't feel my hands. But I managed to get through and then, but I missed the cut there. I remember I had a nine footer for, and this is kind of important just because I feel like I was close but didn't quite get it done for the entire summer at a seven footer to get inside the cut line on 17 and 3-putted. And then I had a terrible Sunday at the players' amateur

and then on Sunday, or the second round of the US amateur, I was one inside the cut line for match play and I laid up in the water because I picked the wrong number, made triple, missed a cut by one. So you get for laying up? That's all I know. I know. I know. I know. I know.

I should have just blasted it in the back bunker and taken my four. But yeah, that's, yeah, I walked straight into that one. But then the kind of the mindset shift was, you know, okay, Patrick and Cameron are gone. I'm playing number one. Somebody's got to step up at this point. And, you know, what's our team going to be without those guys? And I was so nervous, so uncomfortable.

My first six holes at North Ranch, our first event, my sophomore year. I think I was two over par through seven. And eight was this 230 yard downhill. Parf three, pin was short left, just over the water, long left was dead in a bunker, and I just, I really didn't want to hit the shot. I was so nervous and not unhappy, and I actually backed off of it, and I had a little chat with myself. I said, Maverick, what do you mean you don't want to hit this shot? But just man up, stop being such a wimp. This

is what you play for. This is what you're supposed to do. You're supposed to be a hockey player. Take it on the chin. And I I striped this for iron to two feet. I think I shot 32 or something on the back nine ended up winning by five. And then I won the next event at Olympia Fields was kind of off and running. And how many times did you win sophomore year? Yeah, I won six times. I won twice in 2014. I won seven out of 12 events, including the Noracow Matchplay in 2015. And then I won three times in 2016, once in 2017, and then my lone win came in the junior shootout in 2018 with you. So thank you for keeping my streak alive. But yeah, it's been an

interesting last couple of years for sure. I 2015 with I just blacked out for a year and a half. That's a long time to black out for you one. I think you won pack 12's as well, right? I won by 10. Yeah. That was good. That was you were the Haskins award winner. You won 11 events, which tied some other guy that went to Stanford as well, correct? Two other guys actually. Patrick Rogers, he did it in three years and Tiger, he did it in two. Oh, it's forces. But I got the degree. So, I'm... So you got that on him. I'm holding that over him.

Yeah. So it's just got... it's such an interesting career path because you kind of... It sounds like you came in to Stanford. I don't want to say an unknown, but just definitely like a not, not on the trajectory that you ended on. Did that put you kind of in an uncomfortable position as far as expectations that were laid on you after that? I mean, winning so much as a sophomore and even you had kind of described when you were here, how you didn't have as much success in junior

and senior years, that's all very relative because you're comparing it basically to yourself. But what kind of change in that time frame from being kind of an unknown to being a world-beater to trying to find the middle ground as to what you actually are? So much, and it's honestly something I'm still working on. Even as a junior, I played my best call from behind.

I think I made it to the quarter finals of the US junior amateur, my junior year of high school. I was the first time anyone ever really heard my name. And I was behind in all four matches that I want with four holes to go. And, you know, kind of the same thing. I had no expectations for myself starting my freshman year. And after a 2015 like that, all of a sudden you have expectations from yourself, from Mia, from teammates, coaches,

everyone, and it's just a fact, it's there. And I kind of started my professional career in the opposite end of the spectrum. I mean, thinking of kind of expectations that were laid out for me, I don't know how it would have been possible to exceed those, especially with guys like John Ram right before me doing what he just did. I mean, these guys are making something that's really, really hard, look really, really easy. And I remember, I think I was interviewed by golf channel at Canavery this year in the web finals and I was asked a question, what have you learned this year? And I gave some terrible answer. I only remember what it was,

but walking away, I thought, you know what I actually learned? I learned that this is not easy. There's a lot of good players out here, and the guys like Cameron Chan, John Rom, Aaron Wise, all these guys that are tearing it up, it's really, really impressive what they're doing, and there's a reason they're exceptional. It's because they're an exception to the rule.

And, you know, I definitely did not live up to the expectations I had for myself this year, and definitely a lot of other people, but that being said, it wasn't a disaster the year. I finished top 75 on the web, and I've got full, full exempt web status, which is, you know, better than where I was last year, which was going to Q-school.

So, yeah, all in all, it was in a disaster of the year, but I think really, really struggling the last three months of this summer, you know, going to places that I hadn't really been on and off the golf course. It's made me really reevaluate a lot of the things I was doing and I think a lot of bad habits I picked up after that You know, golf is so easy when you're playing well, and it is so hard when you're not playing well and there's just so much You know, it basically playing poorly makes you have to really really think. You can get away with anything when you're playing well, basically.

You can get away with bad habits, but you have to be so much better when you're not playing well. And that's what I've learned. Well, over some of the bad habits you picked up. I think generally, if I were to just put a blanket on it all, it was just done with what's easy and comfortable. There was a lot of stuff in pro golf that makes you everything is designed to make you uncomfortable. Everything from pin positions, every pin location is on a crown. If you miss right,

the putt breaks more right, if you miss left, it breaks more left. It's stuff you don't see on TV. They love to put it on changing slopes and grain changes, just to mess with you a little bit. So things like dealing with TV, that was different for me. I think worrying too much about what other people think is a huge thing for me as well. I'll be, I'd lie if I said I wasn't wondering what commentators were saying as the tea. So you see the close ups of people's face when they're walking down the fairway.

What you don't see is that five steps in front of the actual player is two guys, one with a camera, and one with a big rod shuffling backwards, five feet in front of them. It's a little bit, it's just not something you're used to and having a camera in your face, and you know, my whole life I always just thought a little bit too much about what other people think, and I'm realizing in this profession you just can't. So that was something that was uncomfortable that I've got to do a better job of dealing with. And honestly, it's just the difference between wanting to go somewhere quiet and do your own thing and kind of keep your head down or do what the best players in the world do which is stick or chest out, hit a great shot and think watch this. I'm going to show you something that you're going to be

watching for years to come. It's just a little bit of a mindset switch like that that I think is huge. I'm sure it's a bit circular too as well. I mean if you're playing well it's so much easier to have that mindset and that's not a mindset that you can talk yourself into if you don't feel like your game is right there. Is that fair to say? Oh, for sure. I call it peacocking. I mean, what is a peacock?

It stands up there and spreads its feathers and it's, it's look at me. You know, I, I did the opposite of that for a lot of this year. I remember I would, I'd hit a bad shot and the camera would want to get off in my face and I'd really automatically find something really interesting in Travis's, you know, in the golf bag, my caddy Travis. And, you know, I think they really annoyed that I kept hiding behind him, but, you know, just, just stuff like that that, you know, I look back on now and think that's kind of silly, but, you know, it is all a mindset shift that, you know, you just, just got to deal with it better.

And that's what it's interesting to hear the perspective on that because one, you're 22 years old, you are a rookie on the web.com tour. And you answered a lot of the questions I had just about looking at other young players' success on the PJ tour, on the web tour, and everything, and how that kind of has an effect on you. And it's those guys being the exception to the rule

is exactly what I say about it. It's like, there are so many guys out there just grinding to maintain web status. And I think it's, that's a very good sign for you that in a year that you did not think was a strong year for you, you at least kept your web.com tour card, which doesn't sound, it made, to some people, listen to this, may not sound like a big deal,

but you know, we're tracking some of our friends on the web tour and then losing web status and battling for it. It's not an easy thing out there. Did you find the web tour to be more competitive than you were expecting? What were your expectations going into it and kind of what was your big takeaway

from competing out there for an entire year? Yeah, the biggest difference between the web or any professional golf and college is the fields are so much deeper or any professional golf and college is the feels are so much deeper. The top 10 and either pretty comparable, but the difference is the top 10 on the web, you layer that on the next 10 and the next 10 and the next 10. You know, in college, there's probably 15 guys in any given event that could realistically

win. In a web event, There's probably 100 mm-hmm, and It's just that that just means the the level it of golf the quality of golf It takes to win and to finish in the top five and top 10 is so much higher and in college You can get away with a bad round if you just play well in professional golf You have to turn that 75 into a 70, the remain competitive. And that's what the best players in the world do, is their bad rounds are 70-71. But that being said, though, another thing that kind of surprised me is how top heavy everything

is in professional golf. It does not matter about miscuts. It does not matter if you finish outside the top 20, really. The difference between 40th and 30th is negligible, compared to the difference between 3rd and 2nd. It's all about your good weeks, and it's not about your bad weeks. It's kind of weird how that works out. It's like that on the, especially on the web tour, kind of in following the money race. So we like to laugh about it. Tron, Cady for Zach Blair this past year,

and he accidentally got him a two-shot penalty in one of the rounds, and it cost him like $38 or something like that. And like when it happened, we were like, oh my God, I can't believe you actually influenced an event and then it was like, oh, because he made the cut, but he was near the bottom of the leaderboard there.

And it was just crazy to see how exactly what you said, it's so tight at the bottom, but there's such a huge difference. I mean, getting top five, you need top fives, really, to get in the top 25 on the money list to get Earn Your PGA tour card. And if you're not top fiveing, you can almost top 15 every week and still maybe not make it.

It's crazy kind of how top heavy it is. I'm sure that's hard to balance though with like, you know, if you miss a couple cuts, it really doesn't matter that much. You just kind of need to have the big weeks. And almost, does that make you feel more like you're gambling when you tee it up or more like I need to play out of my mind or it doesn't really matter?

Does that kind of, I imagine that'd be easy for it to start doubling down on you when you're not, you know, top 10, top 5 every week. Yeah, I mean, I'm probably not the best person to ask about this because I struggle on weekends this year, to be honest. I think I remember somebody sent me a picture, one of my friends sent me a picture of myself on golf channel. It says, Hey, I see you on TV.

And what it showed was a picture of me. And it said, Maverick's Thursday Friday scoring average, 6.9.2, first on the web.com tour. Maverick's Saturday Sunday scoring average, 72 points something like 85th on the web.com tour. I said thanks buddy, I appreciate that. But yeah, it's, you know, that being said though, if you're in 45th place on Sunday,

teen it up, you're pinning your ears back. I don't think I changed my game plan too much, but you're just not going to leave your birdie putt short. You're thinking that I'd rather just not be, I mean, you can't be afraid to go in low. You have to do it. And especially on the web.com tour when you get in the middle of that summer and 20 underpars is the cut for top five. Cheers. So, yeah, it's a different mindset for sure, but then again, it holds the same size and you just got to play better than everyone else. Real quick break here, guys, and we are going to get to the good stuff here with Mavic

McNeely. But quick reminder might be the end of the year, but momentum is not slowing down for our friends at Callaway, who actually won the driver count this week on the PGA tour at the Maya Coba Classic. This win was led, of course, by the Rogue drivers with the jailbreak technology, which have been on a roll lately. Following Mark Leachman's win at the CIMB Classic in Sergio Garcia's win in Spain. I know it's only mid-November, but if you're looking to knock out some Christmas shopping early from the golfer on your list, the Rogue Woods from Calaway would be a good

place to start. So visit calawaygolf.com slash gift guide from Calaway, golf's new number one driver brand. Let's get back to Maverick McNeely. What is there a specific thing that you feel like you need to improve on the most in 2019? Yes, and that's that's just being, I don't know, just being a better, being better at professional golf, I think what it is, I think my game is fine. My short game improved so much this year. And I think honestly, due to some of the imperfect lies that we get on the web.com tour. You know, there's some places that, whether due to weather or just general wear and tear

on the course, you don't get perfect lies all the time around the greens and you have to be more creative and you have to learn the bottom of your wedges better and that's helped me a ton. Pudding wise, you know, towards the back half of college, kind of the 2016-2017, my only wins were when I absolutely blacked out with a platter. I was just a little bit more focused on the plan. I was just a little bit focused on the plan. I was just a little bit focused on the plan. I was just a little bit focused on the plan. I was just a little bit focused on the plan.

I was just a little bit focused on the plan. I was just a little bit focused on the plan. I was just a little bit focused on the plan. I was just a little bit focused on the plan. I was just a little bit focused on the plan. I was just a little bit focused on the plan. I was just a little bit focused on the plan. I was just a little bit focused on the plan. I was just a little hit it to the same standard that I did in 2015. So that's the big one for me.

But honestly, my catty described the last couple months is kind of like a cleanse. It's like you go to GNC, you buy a cleanse, you'd grab your pants for a little while and then you feel better. I feel like I just, I had to, I needed a bit of a rude awakening to realize that some of the stuff I was doing just isn't working. Some of my mindset isn't working.

And it comes back to taking ownership. Like, I, a lot of the times I would, you know, want to look into something in my equipment, you know, maybe this didn't feel right. Maybe that's the reason why I fell into the trap of looking at my 2015 golf swing way too much. Thinking how to but if you get if you want to get back if you're trying to get back to where you were You're never going to get where you want to be I forgot where I was going to that What was the original question? I don't know but you ended that with a really really the intriguing thought there

I like that that if you're looking at what you were, you can't figure out where you're gonna be. I was hoping you would give me kind of a segue because I know this is something you get asked about a time. I was, we're 25 minutes in or so, and you haven't mentioned your dad yet. I was hoping I could say, hey, you brought it up first so I can ask about it now. But I wanna talk a bit about,

I mean, you made some headlines whether intentionally or not when you were in college talking about whether or not you would actually turn pro you're the number one ranked damper in the world Wall Street Journal called you golf's best prospect and this kind of story went kind of nuts Can you tell us a bit about for those that maybe don't know the background who your dad is what he does and why there was this conversation around Maybe potentially you might not end up going into professional golf after college. Yeah, so this was completely blown out of proportion, I think. I would have imagined so.

I could see that from a mile away. Yeah, so my dad was co-founder and CEO of Sun Microsystems. It was a multi-billion dollar company, which for the record doesn't mean he owns all the company. That's just not how it works. People love to use the B word about my dad. It's not true. But that being said, we were very well off. We're very, very fortunate to have the resources that we do. But the way we've always been raised is my dad and my mom would put an opportunity in front of us,

but it was up to us to take advantage of it. It was up to us to make something of it. My dad raised us saying, if you don't act like you're not going to get a scent, that might actually be the case. And so he says that when I graduated college, he told me that you've got a summer, three months to live at home and this is the same deal for all four boys. You get that summer to live at home, we'll pay your room and board, and that's your job finding summer.

You've got to find out, figure out a job and get yourself established. I played, basically, one of the coolest schedules as an Amarigal for a run through, really quick Palmer Cup, US Open, John Deere, Reno, US Amarigal at LACs at Riviera and Bel Air and Walker Cup at LACC, pretty cool stuff. But when I turned pro and got my signing bonuses, I paid my dad back for all my travel expenses, just because that's the way we work. And my dad doesn't pay for anything. I think half of the web tour this year

thought I flew private and stayed in five star hotels because I had a couple people ask me, so hey, how are you getting to this next event? So I double booked on Delta and United, and I'm going to cancel whichever one I can't make depending on my T times. And they look at me like, are you getting to this next event? So, oh, I double booked on Delta and United, and I'm gonna cancel whichever one I can't make depending on my T times. And they look at me like, are you serious? Really?

It's kind of hoping I'd get a ride with you, but. Not how it works. No, no, I've got companions that are on Southwest. And you know. It's great, it's great. My catty flies for $5. That's awesome. But yeah, I mean, that's the way we work.

And people were, you know, I just didn't know what I was going to do when I turned pro. Or when I graduated school, I was 20 years old. I pro golf had never really been on the table for me until my junior year. And who's ever not heard of a 20 year old that doesn't know what he's going to do with his life. I mean, it was a big life decision to turn pro and play professional golf and I didn't have to make it for another two years. And I guess I'm different in that I went to school not thinking I was going to play pro golf, but that's the case. That's what it was. And people love to say, say oh he'll just go into the family business but we don't have a family business. That's good to say. That's not how it works either.

What does that even mean? My dad always, and people ask me what would you have done if you didn't play pro golf? I don't know. I would have gotten a job anywhere they would have had me and I would have tried to do that job so well that they'd want to give me a better job. And that's just the way I work, that's the way I operated when I started my freshman year at Stanford. I just, I wanted to outwork everyone on the team. And I'd always want to be the last guy. I'd always chip in putt for just five more minutes after the last guy left, just so that I could be the last guy on the range. And I think a lot of that is what helped me improve. But yeah, my dad and my mom are my biggest fans.

They come out and watch me play. But I'm on my own dime and I'm independent. And I love them and they support me. But and I love the fact that, and I'm proud of the fact that I'm doing this on my own. It's my career, my life. And they've given it, like I, and I'm proud of the fact that I'm doing this on my own. It's my career, my life, and, you know, they've given, like I said, I'm so fortunate for all of the opportunities to go to Parker High School, to go to Stanford, to have the resources to play golf and hockey, which are not cheap sports to play.

But, you know, it's all me now. And that's the thing, and I definitely got, did not ever get that vibe when the little bit that we hang out during the web.com tour championship week was like, you don't come off like a, somebody that's been handed everything. And that's kind of a misconception, I think, about, some maybe even guys that are sons of professional golfers.

It's, obviously, there's a ton of financial resources that go into getting started in golf and being able to travel and go to tournaments and stuff, which doesn't sound like you really had. You didn't play much outside of California at all until late in your junior career as you mentioned. And you start to put the work in. It's still about scores. You can get some sponsors, exemptions here and there based on a lot of different marketability and a lot of things. But other than that, it's like put up or shut up. There's no faking in around in any way.

And that's, I think kind of your perspective on and building up towards this point of when you came into college, you weren't expecting, like Progolfo was even on your radar. And around the time that these questions started getting asked to you, was right around that sophomore junior year where you had so much success that you hadn't really fully entered that mindset of, oh, maybe I am that good to play professional golf. And it just kind of all happened quick. I guess were you surprised at all at the kind of the way the story went kind of nuts, wondering whether or not you were going to make the transition to pro golf? Yeah, I really was really quickly. I'd jump in and say one of my favorite things about

golf is that the golf ball doesn't care. It has no clue who you are, what you believe in, what you like, what color your skin is, what your upbringing was, it does not care. And that's one of the great things about this game. I think there's nothing subjective about golf. You know, there's some, you can pick, but you know, in terms of all of the sports out there, there's nothing subjective. There are no contracts for status. It's a number you got to get to. There's, you know, the guy who shoots the lowest score is going to win. And that's, that's all that really matters. And that's, you know, one of the things that's drawn me to golf, honestly. But yeah, the story, especially things like my dad's selling his house now,

you know, it's, I realized that we're different. I remember, I honestly remember when I was 12 years old, we were at a family camp in Minnesota, which we went to every year, we just play golf and paddle board and bike, and my dad and I were paddleboarding across the lake. And it was just the two of us in the middle of the lake. And he says to me, Mav, I want to tell you something. And I go, what is that? And says, we're very, very rich. And I looked at him like, really?

It says, yeah, you know, your mother and I have tried to, you know, hide this from you just so that you guys could be normal. Yeah, you know, your mother and I have tried to hide this from you just so that you guys could be normal. But I think when I came home, I'll set an upset because my third grade classmates started calling me rich kid. I was a little bit confused. And I think at that point, my dad just said, you guys are gonna have to work harder.

You're gonna have to be nicer. You're gonna have to have higher integrity and you're just to have to be nicer, you're going to have to have higher integrity, and you're just going to have to, you know, prove to everyone that you're not, you didn't get to where you are just because of the opportunities you had. And that's something that I think has been a little bit of a motivator for me is, and that one of the more attractive things about golf is, you know, if I make that five footer to win, I made it. That was me. And that's kind of, it's the ultimate meritocracy. That's good stuff. Along those lines, I think it was, was it the Wall Street Journal story

that really fan the flames that really got things going? Okay. And I will, so I'm going to lead up to this. Your dad had, did have a quote in that, which I think, did help fan the flames of bending. It's a quote he said, part of the challenge for Mav, and I think the thing I worry most is, will he get intellectually bored after three years trying to spend eight hours a day

on the range, playing six hours and traveling around like a gypsy. If you're an entertainer, it's counterproductive from the standpoint that people stop doing anything and just sit and watch entertainers. The guy serving you food at a golf tournament is in many ways doing more good and moving the capitalist ball forward than Tiger Woods. Do you wish he didn't say that? No, no, I mean, he said that was taken a little bit out of context.

And I think now, I mean, that's my dad, you know, if you go back through his whole business career, he's known for sound bites, you know, he used to call, he made comments about bomber and butt head at Microsoft and he would, you know, just stuff like that. That's the way he operates. And he said stuff. And that's why people love him and that's also why people sometimes don't like him as much. But it's true. And that's important to me because golfers are entertainers. Our job is to entertain people. But that being

said, there's so many things we can do with that that are greater than entertaining, that are better than entertaining. And that's more than that, he was saying that what you're doing needs to be more than just entertainment. It's not all about you if you choose this path. That's more what he was trying to say. And yes, I mean, it's a different, but I don't think there's been any shortage of intellectual stimulation trying to figure out why I can't get an A-dion on the planet. I mean, there's so much that goes into trying to play good golf, and we get to meet incredible people.

And in terms of just meeting cool people, golf is one of the greatest sports. Successful people like to play golf. And people have this, I still think is a little bit weird how people think that we're cool because we can hit a little white ball really far. I totally agree. People find that really, really awesome. And I'm benefiting from it, but I just think, why does that really make me so cool?

I think leveraging that and doing good things with this. That's actually one of the things that I kind of came to is I feel like I need to have some sort of purpose. I've, you know, at Stanford, my purpose was to win a national championship and I played for my teammates and, you know, playing ice hockey, growing up. I love playing team sports. And funny enough, three of my four best finishes this year were when I was donating to a cause per birdie.

I think it's not like I was standing over an eight footer thinking, if I make this, I'm going to donate $100 to this cause. But it just so happened that I played really well in all of those weeks. And so I, one of the things my dad has started is Currickey.org, which is an educational startup. And he says, Currickey is the most my dad has started is curriculum.org, which is an educational startup, and he says curriculum is the most expensive thing he's ever done. But it's, it's really cool. It's got 260,000 online free learning resources for K through 12 education, and the goal

is to basically lower the cost of education and educational materials. And that's what it's done. It's brought teachers online and I know it sound like an infomercial right now, but it's actually really cool. It's important to me because I've had incredible opportunities from education. I realize how fantastic that is. And the goal with Curric key is to build, basically create the building blocks to build your own Curriculum.

That's online, self-paced, completely free and accessible and customizable and Starting next year I'm going to be fundraising for them and I'm also doing a little bit of work just a couple hours here and there on the side to help them out There were who I did my community service hours with in high school and That to me is exciting. I'm going to be donating per birdie next year. I'm going to try and, you know, reach my goal of raising 100,000 for this, which in the long term, when I'm talking about those building blocks, it's going to cost about

50 grand per class. So we can put on a sixth grade algebra class for about 50 grand is kind of our ballpark estimate. So if I can raise enough money to create two classes per year, that's really exciting to me. And so I think there's so many guys. The PGA tour donates more to charity than the NFL NBA MLB and NHL combined. It's pretty amazing, their business model. And so long story short, yes, we're entertainers and that's what my dad was saying, but there's so many ways to do so much more than that

and being in golf is what I do, it's not who I am. It's kind of what it comes down to. No, that's, I feel like that's a story that everyone in golf should have heard before a lot more than kind of the surface level report that was. And I don't know if, I believe in reading that article, it says that he said this out loud and it wasn't direct quote from you, but he had asked you, if you weren't sure,

if you had Jordan Speet's career, whether or not that would be fulfilling enough in golf. What's the context around that quote or kind of what, because that I think was also one of the things that put a little gasoline on the fire. What's the context behind that? And is that something that you maybe, your perspective on has changed in the last couple of years?

It was actually pretty simple. He said, if you were Jordan Speet, would you feel fulfilled? And I said, yeah, I mean, he's done amazing things. And I think, I mean, I'm never going to be Jordan Speeth, that's nobody else is ever going to be. But, you know, it's, it's, people just like to read into things. It's really not that, it was just asking me, if you were, you know, what, okay, what's the best case scenario for the next five years what what's the best case scenario for the next five years and what's the worst case scenario for the next five years in golf and then what's the best case in worst case if you do not golf. I mean that that's all

you was asking me and you know to my dad's credit he's the best devil's advocate in the world. I came to him and coach Ray and my coach and my mom's kind of early January, kind of middle of my senior year and said, I think this pro golf thing is something I want to do. And my dad laid out every reason why I shouldn't be. And so it flipped my world upside down, went back, thought about it for two weeks, brought them all back into the conference room, said, yeah, this is still something I want to do. And my dad says, great, that's exactly what I want to do. I want you to take ownership of your decision and go through every single scenario in your mind.

And then the only reason, the only way you can make a bad decision is to not commit to it, is if you regret, look back, wish you hadn't done anything. And I'm very fortunate to say I have no regrets with any of my career decisions that I've made and I sense I made the right one. And I think looking at it, I'm sure he brought up some excellent points and even in that quote that I read talking about the work and the travel and everything that goes into it. After spending a year on the PGA or on the web.com tour, do you at least see kind of what he was getting at and to be and to try to prepare you?

At least make sure you are that this is what you want to do because it's not quite the glory ride that a lot of people think that it is. Is that fair to say? It's a grind. I played 29 events since I turned pro 54 weeks ago. It's a lot. I love the travel a lot more than I thought I was going to. The airports and rental cars and hotels get a little old, but I love seeing

different parts of the country. Fun fact, Oxford, Mississippi is the favorite city that I've visited this year. North Mississippi classic on the web.com tour. It was just the coolest place with the nicest collection of people I've ever met and Just stuff like that that I wouldn't have seen or done otherwise. I'm gonna assume that's the non jacks beach, you know Classification there. That's fine. Continue. Yeah, yeah, so I've enjoyed that but you know two months ago three months ago I You know is going through a really tough time on and off the course, off the course, which, you know, it's really hard to play golf when you

don't have everything outside the golf course in order. And I just kind of, I was hitting it all over the planet, I couldn't control my golf ball. And I was in a pretty dark place, you know, on and off the golf course was not a fun place for me to be. And I realized that I needed to continue, I needed to have a good reason for why I was doing this. I needed to have a really, really good reason that was under control and under my control and something that was, you know, that should be in my control.

And I realized I was kind of operating, and this is kind of what I said about a cleanse. I was operating on a lot of things, a lot of sources of self-confidence and self-assurance and feel good that were just bad, bad reasons, bad reasons for why I'm doing what I'm doing I had a lot of bad reasons for why I was playing golf like I'm making good contract money This is what I'm committed to do this is I Don't know what else I'd be doing. I don't know how to start over. I don't know Just bad reasons for playing golf and I realized I need to come up with I get myself two weeks

I said if you don't come up with a really good reason for why you're playing golf. And I realized I needed to come up with, I get myself two weeks. I said, if you don't come up with a really good reason for why you're playing golf, I'm the quit. And I thought about it. And I was talking to one of my buddies about, you know, kind of all I had learned through this past month, month and a half of sucking. And that's when they hit me. I said, I know why I play golf.

And I know why I love doing what I do and it's because Golf is really really hard and it puts you in some really uncomfortable places And I realized that instead of running from those uncomfortable places and hiding from them That's where the most of the learning happens. I feel like I've grown so much as a person and as a player Because of all the struggles. I've golf has put me through because it's really hard. It messes with your head. It's not, it's just not easy. And I love the process of getting better and learning stuff

about myself and trying to make myself better. And that's why I play golf is because it's forcing me to be better as a person and as a player. And so now I think next year starting this process over again, I'm excited to be uncomfortable. I'm excited to learn how I react in those different situations. And I have a poster over my bed that says, what are you going to learn about yourself today?

And I think it's a really powerful question. It's, I want to make it something good every day. I want to go to bed and say, I learned that, it could be something as simple as I was walking down the street and I saw a piece of trash I picked it up and threw it away. I like what I learned about myself in that instance. Or it could be, I was four down with six to play against one of my buddies

and I buried five last six and one one up. Like I learned that, you know, X, it's just, it's a powerful question and golf makes you learn a lot about yourself. So that's, that's why I play and that's, that's my reason and that was really the start of things turning around for me. Hmm. You got me feeling inspired after that one. A couple more and we'll let you get out of here. I was curious if there's been any guys out on the pro circuit that have kind of taken you under their wing at all. I know it's a little different on the web tour

compared to the PGA tour where it's even more of a grind probably on the web tour and no one is out there really coasting along, but as there've been anyone that you've been kind of drawn to or spent some time with on the web tour circuit that has maybe helped you with anything through your rookie year. Yeah, for sure. Honestly, I get along with the older guys out there really, really well. I'm not the coolest.

I don't think I don't fit in with the cool kids as well, but in the older guys, you know, guys like Ben Crane and Jason Gore and even Marco Mira and probably my best friend out there has been Joe Bramlett who is he's 30, actually incredible story. He was at Stanford seven years before me. He turned pro was the first African American guy to get his tour card since Tiger, his first year out of school, and then had just terrible back injury. Couldn't play for two years. I remember I was practicing out at Stanford. Now it's he and go hit a couple of wedge shots and kind of just bend over and

go back into the hitting bay and roll out and stretch for another 30 minutes and then he come out and try and hit a few more and it was just so hard to watch and I think how could you know 99.9% of people in that situation would have quit and He came back he was on a medical he had four events during 17 grand and in Mexico He shot a final round 65 locked up his his medical. And he ended up finishing the year, to get this.

Finishing the year on the web.com season, number one in scoring average, and number 20 in combined regular season and finals money. And he didn't get his card. Oh my God. Yeah, it's tough out there. But he's been like an older brother to me. I have 300 brothers, but he's been like an older brother to me. Like practice rounds together. And just just having a guy like that that is so just I look up to him so much and admire so much of what he does and the way he does it. And he's helped me through, you know, on the golf course, off the golf course stuff, learning

how to be a professional, things like that. It's stuff like that is invaluable. Yeah, and then it's been so fun just to play with guys that played with in college and meet new friends out there and play with new guys and practice rounds and stuff like that. But in terms of guys kind of taking me under their wing, Joseph, Patrick Rogers from Stanford, and a couple of the older guys out there for sure have helped me a ton.

Where do you live these days? What are your home games like? Who do you play with out there? I know the answer to this, but that will be the stories. Yeah, I live in Vegas. I moved just over a year ago, packed everything I owned in my mom's old Ford Explorer and drove to my three-bedroom apartment here in Summaryland, five minutes from TPC Summaryland. Oh, man, it's a great time to ask me this question. Doug Gim just moved in with me two weeks ago. He's my Walker Cup

partner. You know, one of the guys I met through golf, it's now one of my best friends. And we were in the Monday qualifier for Shriners two days ago. And five for one playoff after shooting six under. And he cans a 40 footer, and I miss an eight footer. And he gets the last spot. So we know his rent's going up. He's going to be banging on his walls all week

as he before he tees off. No, I was telling him I was going to win this week. So if you took my spot, you better get the trophy. That's my spot right over the kitchen counter here. God, that's that doesn't, for everything we've talked about today, that doesn't, if that doesn't personify it, six under in the qualifier, it doesn't get you in and you're still kicked out

That's kind of shows the struggle of pro golf so I'm really encouraged because it was better But yeah home games There's tons of young guys that live out here in Vegas. We've got two TPCs and probably half the number of pros But it's kind of like Jupiter the West you got Aaron Wise wind and Clark Chintaro band Alex and Danielle Cain, John Oda, and then you've got the pro guys Kevin Ryan Moore, Scott Pierci. It's a new center of golf, it's kind of like the young center of golf in the West and it's a great place to be. Awesome. Hey, Matt, thanks for the stories and in all the perspective, this was a fun one.

I had a feeling this would be a good one. And I learned a lot. And I think a lot of people listen to this. We'll be rooting for you going forward. So what's next coming up for you, this fall, this winter, and into the next year? I get an off season now, which is fun. Last year, my off season was Q-school.

So I don't have anything now other than a palbeats imitation program next month until the Bahamas in January. But I appreciate you guys doing what you do. It's cool for us. You know, it's guys like you and what you do and everyone here that's listening. People that care, that's let's us do what we get to do and we all really appreciate it. You know, like I said, we're entertainers and I'm glad we're someone entertaining because that means I get to do what I love for a living So thank you guys for doing what you guys do you bet. Thanks again, man chairs. All right, how do you get on? I Mean that's better than most.

How about him? That is better than most. Better than most. I expect anything different.