No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 189: Annika Sörenstam

Episode Date: January 21, 2019

Annika Sörenstam joins the podcast to talk about her remarkable LPGA career, reaching the pinnacle of the game, winning major championships, playing on the PGA Tour, retirement, and her life after golf. We try our... The post NLU Podcast, Episode 189: Annika Sörenstam appeared first on No Laying Up. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Be the right club. Be the right club today. I mean, that's better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most! Expect anything different. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No Laying Up podcast. Mr. DJ Pajowski is across the table. Thank you for joining me on your Sunday evening here.

Of course. Yeah. Happy to be here. I think as No Laying Up's in-house Adam Long correspondent, I felt like I kind of had to be here. It's kind of an emergency. That's something i couldn't have pictured saying like a year ago yeah we need an emergency adam long podcast here because i think what we just witnessed was legitimately awesome it was awesome i seriously enjoyed that totally awesome uh we are going to get to later in the show um we're going to try to keep this to around 15 to 20 minutes or so we interviewed annika

sorenstam earlier today which was fantastic fantastic. We really, really enjoyed that. I'll encourage people to stick with this one. I think there's some really, really good stuff in there. And very infrequently, do you get a chance to sit down with somebody who's probably the greatest ever to play your sport? Genuinely the best person that's ever done what she did. It's really hard to try to tap into some of that, but we did our best and we're excited about that one. But first, we have to talk about Adam Long because I think I can say maybe even like two, three years ago, this is the exact tournament I've been like, oh man, like, come on, Phil, you should have won that. Now I'm the exact opposite. I'm like, all right, Phil, you have won plenty. Like, we're good. All right, you're fine. A story like Adam Long is why we watch golf to this day.

I agree. I think that it's easy and sometimes very fun to be cynical about all the money in professional golf. And, you know, this is an example of that money, I think being being put towards changing a good life. You know, there's there's so many people out there that are these superstars that have been around forever and have, you know, been pampered and catered to forever that just feel very unattainable and kind of unrelatable. There are a bunch of young players who are kind of like pampered juniors or kind of like these maladjusted like junior superstars. And then there's people like Adam who are the most the realist dudes you can meet, the most normal people that have been grinding forever and been punched in the face at every level possible. And seeing something like today was

just, yeah, it was awesome. It was like a genuine life changer. It's such a cliche, but it really is. And it wasn't like he was knocking at the door for a long, long time and like really close. He's never won on any tour. Exactly. It's not to say he's not talented at all. I think it just goes to say how ridiculous the depths of talent in golf art which he's he's banged around on the mckenzie tour on web.com tour latino america he turned pro and before that like i think when i first met him was probably seven or eight years ago uh and he was playing the hooters tour he's like a friend of a friend and uh yeah he's grinding away in the hooters tour and i think the cool part is like he never in in the seven or eight years I've known him,

he's never taken a step backwards. So he's always, he went from the mini tours to Canada, to Latino America, to the web tour, kept his web tour card for four or five straight years. Which is hard to do. Which is so hard to do. Especially going through some swing changes and coaching changes and doing all that stuff.

Got his tour card. And yeah, I mean, just look, it was not. Yeah, it was not trending. I was happy to have him on my Fred X Cup team. It was much more of a heart pick than a head pick. Your team is just gelling. My team is really coming together. I think that's that's two Fred X Cup wins in 11 events.

This is the stuff. You can start your scripting for the BMW charity pro. I was going to say, there's a lot of golf left. Uh, listen, there's, there's a lot of, a lot of tournaments to be played, but I, I feel like I did, uh, lock in my spot at the, at the BMW charity pro. You might get a battlefield promotion if you get one more win, but, uh, it's funny to see, not funny. I mean, the guy turned pro in 2010, and he made $585,000 over the last eight years. And he made $1.062 million today.

Almost doubled his career earnings in one day. And my favorite part of the day, two things that happened on the 18th green were so awesome. Three things, actually. He walks off, and he gives his girlfriend a kiss and a hug. And he walks off off and he just kind of looks at the people that were waiting by the side. He's just like, holy crap. He even couldn't believe what just happened. Second thing, really cool camera shot. They had a camera locked on Phil.

And he's looking at his yardage book and he makes the putt. And Phil, it wasn't like a for TV, like, wow. It was just really under his breath. He's just like, wow. He just did not see that coming. Nobody really thought that Adam Long would be the guy that chased down Phil today. And the third was Adam Hadwin just kind of like dropping his putter and like clapping for him. I know we kind of make fun of the sportsman,

the slow motion thumbs up that they love to show when somebody like Jordan Spieth is, oh, what a great sportsman he is. But that feels very real and genuine with hadwin he's been so close to this event for like four straight years and that was just like kind of a classy moment that happened there on uh on the 18th green yeah hadwin was nailed too yes his iron play was spectacular phil it was just an awesome finish to watch it was everybody played great nobody gagged nobody like nobody did anything i mean phil obviously missed some short putts throughout the day he got he hit it lights out all week uh and just couldn't just couldn't make any putts couldn't make any putts listen total putts is a bad stat in general but

you can look at 33 putts and be like okay that's a lot of putts that shouldn't that should not happen yeah strokes gain we pay much more close uh closer attention to that and he lost over three strokes to the field and strokes and putting uh on on Sunday. There's not a lot of strokes gained data for the week because of the rotation of the courses and stuff, but not Phil's best effort on the green. He shot 2,500. He led the field in driving distance which, what is he, 48?

Yeah, he's moving it still pretty well. That's pretty impressive. Ninth in strokes gained approach. He's doing everything well. He just couldn't make any putts. It was really he's doing everything well. He just, you know. Couldn't make any putts. Couldn't make any putts. And it was really just kind of today.

Couldn't make any putts. I think the rest of the week he actually putted pretty well. Can we talk about long shot into the 18th hole? Oh, my gosh. Off a downslope in the dormant rough. And go back and watch the replay and look at how far below his feet that ball was. And I'm going to say this having watched it on TV. And I have no insight on this,

but I'm probably going to guess that the TV did not do justice for it. It never does for how severe slopes are. And you can even look at that shot and say, wow, this ball is way below his feet. That water is left. And I think it's kind of a... We saw the way he had to step through the ball, too. Right. It's kind of a misconception that when the ball's below your feet, that that'll spray it off to the right. I at the professional level i've heard paul azinger say that it actually you're more likely to pull it off that lie because the heel the toe is up it grabs your heel and it covers the face so with the water lurking left that shot biggest shot of his life by yeah by i don't even know how you measure that and then he steps up and makes the putt there was he had about

eight to ten of the biggest shots of his life on that back nine. He just kept making them. It was awesome. The par putt on 17 was super impressive to leave himself like four or five feet left for that kind of shaky ass par. Again, and kudos to him for not looking rattled at all but uh you know having really not won in a very very very very very long time and nothing close to at this level staring down phil mickelson and making a five footer for par on 17 and going to the last tied for the lead was awesome we try i think somewhat to be i don't have objectives the right word but kind of whatever but like we like rooting for the

good guys and adam long is one of the good guys and like a fun guy to be around and just a very genuinely positive person and a guy that's very easy to root for so if you're not familiar with him one we're not judging you at all i was not really until this year and we're kind of giving you like this is a guy this is a win you should celebrate because that was really fun yeah and it's cool i mean again i sound like kind of the cliche broadcaster but the way this does like change his life is it's not a throwaway line and it's not just the money it's and it's not just the masters it's he gets into the players he gets into you know all these other all the invitationals he gets into all these other events and is the tour programmed you to lead with that no he's got she's in the first major of the year exactly gets into all five majors this year

uh and not only that obviously like the two-year exemption too i mean it's it's a big deal incredibly hard to keep your web card it's incredibly hard to keep your pj tour card it's almost a three especially when you know he'd just been reshuffled down uh so it's kind of like these are the events that he absolutely had to make hay in and there's for a lot of these guys it's kind of like a this was kind of a fred x cup major this week this was this was a big one listen we know you're doing well no just for everybody for those guys coming out shout out to scott langley as well t12 you guys wouldn't believe how often the fred x cup comes in conversation around these parts these days so um just want to cover one other really thing on the pga tour professional level

hosung choy comes out this week he's got a sponsor's exemption into the at&t sure where's your current stance on the on the hosung choy phenomenon um i don't care i don't it's totally fine it doesn't offend me again it's kind of like the tv graphics thing where like if you wanted me to get worked up about it i guess i'd say like yeah maybe people are turning turning them into a little bit of a cartoon character, which isn't my favorite. But I think it's fun. I don't know. If it gets people to watch and it gets people to share little videos about what he's doing or if it gets people to kind of imitate him out on the range or whatever, I guess that's good.

It's harder than it looks. It is a lot harder than it looks. It feels like you're gonna tear your acl uh i think that it's a shame that they would prop him up before beef's corpse is even cold uh all the people have kind of moved on from from beef to hosung choy but that's maybe a story for another day i think i saw a tweet this week that kind of i felt it was the correct take it's like i keep trying to get sick of it i keep thinking he's jumped the shark and he does something else more ridiculous the 360 he did on the putt that i don't know if you saw that this week oh yeah spectacular went in uh it's kind of

like all right if he can somehow keep one-upping himself then i'm on board but it is 100 gonna jump the shark and we're we're getting we're inching closer well you know chaos theory loves ho song choy like for sure don't get me wrong but i'm nervous about like what what like golf channel and everyone's gonna do with this kind of phenomenon because it was kind of fun when it was a little internet thing that was flowing around but now i'm like all right well that's everything that everything eventually when i think we might be hipsters that's that's part of what we're dealing with here. Definitely fair. I think what frustrates me more than anything maybe is I think, I don't even know this because of the point I'm about to make,

but I think the guy has like a crazy interesting story. It is. He's like lost a- Former fisherman, lost a finger, reattached, like all this crazy shit. And like that's what you don't ever hear about. Instead it's just like, oh, look at his goofy this goofy ass swing oh my god how does he make contact and if somebody and maybe they will if somebody will take that week at pebble and kind of like shine a light on why this dude is interesting much more than just you know the way he kind of seizes after he makes contact i think that would be a good thing for everybody yeah i agree um without much further

delay let's uh let's roll into our interview with annika i want to debrief on it briefly yeah um i think i i sometimes feel kind of bad just like reading from wikipedia pages but my rule in general is if i didn't know this then i would i don't think a lot of our listeners knew this stuff so i'm just going through kind of trying to put her as a professional golfer yeah she's from sweden sweden uh she's she but the level of success can kind of get blurred i mean a lot of people know her as the greatest female player to ever play the game and it's very difficult to dispute that but the level of greatness is hard to really comprehend and we kind of get into that a little bit but some of my favorite stats that I found are, I mean, it's Tiger level. Between 2001 to 2006, she won 46 of the 124 LPGA events that she played in. She was top 10 in 102 of those 124 events.

So 10 out of 12 events for a five-year period she was in the top 10 she won 72 times on the lpga tour she had 212 top 10s in 307 starts 66 percent of time two-thirds of time she was in the top 10 and this was over what only like 14 years yeah something like that she missed nine cuts in her career she won 10 majors she won more majors than she had missed cuts and i think when you kind of get the later part in the interview when she talks about retiring and kind of the analogy she makes was a light bulb going off moment for like we don't understand her world like we can't understand it and kind of the point she makes is like i'd accomplished it all at that at what point are you like do you is it not fulfilling anymore we're talking about on the way home you made a good point where

it's kind of like you know when you would hear pushback or something from somebody like ah you know i've got some thoughts on on this retirement and it's like cool no one cares yeah like no you know your opinion's really very irrelevant here and if she doesn't you know i mean you'll hear it in the interview, but like, if she's not feeling it, then she's not feeling it. That's it. The end of the story.

And it's just kind of, I don't know how, it's probably like when Babe Ruth was playing baseball. I was like, all right, what, what? I'm so much better than everyone else.

Like, what is the point of, do you have any idea how easy this is? Yeah. That was a good one. For some reason, I thought she was younger when she retired. She would,

she was 38 when she retired. And I, I know it was, it was a big story in For some reason, I thought she was younger when she retired. She was 38 when she retired. And I know it was a big story in the game of golf, obviously. But it doesn't sound like she misses it at all. And I learned a lot. Just hearing, you'll hear this later on, the preciseness of her pre-shot routine was maybe one of the more mind-boggling things I've ever thought of. I haven't ever thought, I have a different pre-shot routine for every shot. And she's like, my pre-shot routine is this many seconds. And I was like,

Oh my God. Yeah. That's when you really realize that you, the listener and us, like we're not playing the same sport that on sort of standpoint. It's not, it's not the same game. It might look like the same game,

but it were, it's not even close to the same thing. And at a certain level, she can't even explain it to us. Yeah. And I was, that's what I was trying to tap into. And it was was just like i don't even think the right words in the language exists for you to be able to explain this so i can understand it yeah she was great i'm glad we got

to glad we got to do it final thing before we get to the interview i was uh talking with hashtag chad this evening we thought the calloway plug was going to be an easy one because they had the leaderboard surrounded with phil up there adam hadwin, Taylor Gooch, and thought it was gonna be a nice and easy what's in the bag plug and play, but then Adam Long happened, so obviously still a great week for Callaway on tour as they finished two, three, and four on the PGA tour, as well as winning the driver count in Abu Dhabi. They even had a non-staffer win the event with an Epic Flash in the bag, so I'm ready and waiting for my Epic Flash to arrive. This is the first ever driver to be engineered with artificial intelligence. Callaway used a supercomputer to test, tweak, and retest over 15,000 faces to find the fastest one. And the result is flash face technology.

It would have taken a normal laptop computer 34 years to complete this calculation. I don't know how they come up with that number, but I'm not going to try to disprove it. So learn more at CallawayGolf.com slash AI. They are available for pre-order now and in stores on February 1st. So now here is our interview with Annika Sorenstam. First question is one we love to ask our guests. When was the last time you paid for a round of golf? It been a while i don't even know what currency it was do you have an approximation a guess of what year it would be um no i don't but i have paid for golf balls at a driving range just recently have to put some coins in a machine that i remember what's it like when you go to a normal range? Do people recognize you quite frequently?

Yeah. I mean, when I wear a Callaway hat and golf shoes, it normally kind of gives it away. Yeah. We want to kind of start, you know, there's a lot to cover with you, but I want to first hear about your childhood as a competitive golfer. When did you know that you really had a very special talent? We're going to ask you to brag on yourself a little bit today, just to warn you. You know, it was probably pretty late.

I mean, I tell people I was a late bloomer because I played all kinds of sports. And I didn't really get serious with golf until the age of 16. And then I went to college. And then that's kind of where I started to win some tournaments around 17, 18 years old. So I guess, I mean, I was just enjoying it. I set up some goals and so forth, but I never really thought, you know, how far I could get. It was more just goals as far as achieving. And then I guess when you win the U.S. Open,

you realize that maybe it was a good choice to be a professional. So I was 24 in 1995 in Colorado Springs. We want to know, it's kind of, I guess, a somewhat infamous story within golf circles. How many junior tournaments did you purposely not win so you wouldn't have to talk to the media after the round? Yeah, it wasn't just the media. It was just, you know, the attention just kind of being

in the forefront of an event. I don't really have a number, but I do know that, you know, getting a prize was kind of an incentive. So, but you get in Sweden, we get a prize for first, second and third finishes. So, you know, I was pretty happy in a way to get something, but of course, inside of me, you know, I will be disappointed knowing that I had a chance and, um, that to miss on purpose so that I didn't have to give a winning speech is, you know, just to have that fear. And, um, you know, but that's how we, how we learn. I think we all have, you know, things in life that we fear or things we feel uncomfortable with and you know sometimes you can run away from them sometimes you do it intentionally or or maybe not intentionally but and then you always kind of look back and say I wish I would

have done that but that's just part of growing up and and luckily I had the desire to to want to win I mean I'm extremely competitive so I think that just kind of overtook my fear and say, Hey, you know, this is not acceptable. I got to do something about it. What was it like after winning the US Open? I think I read somewhere that you after you won the US Open, you didn't play for a month because you wanted to avoid the media attention related to that. Is that true? I don't know if it was a month, but I do know that I, you know, I flew home after the US Open and I was supposed to play in New York the following week. And I mean, I had so many messages. It was at the time when you have like

a box next to your phone and it's blinking how many messages you have. And I've never had so many messages in my life and I just didn't know how to handle it. And I, you know, I called the LPGA and said, you know what, I just can't play. I'm not ready mentally. Physically, I'm ready, but I don't know. I don't think I can handle this. So, and obviously, I got a call from the commissioner five minutes later saying, hey, this is something you need to be doing. And we had a little conversation. I said, you know, I promise you I'm here for the long term.

And when I'm ready, I'll be back. So, I don't know if it was a month. I think it was maybe a week or two. But that's the thing is I've always wanted to wanted to show up when I was ready ready to play I was never a player I'm still not a person just to show up to be seen and be heard I mean I want to have a purpose I want to have a reason to be there and be ready so yeah that was kind of my my motto and still has been was that one of the most surprising things about turning pro to you just just the attention and dealing with that stuff?

Obviously, it seemed like you were pretty ready for the physical side of things and competitive side of things. But had you kind of planned for that aspect of it at all? No. I mean, we practiced hitting drives. We practiced our wedge games. But I really don't practice necessarily how to hold the trophy, what to say, and then what comes with it.

You know what? You get better with practice. So, yeah. But, you know, yeah, it was, and like I said, I didn't play for the attention. I didn't play for to be in, you know, in the middle of everything. So, and when you're quite shy, it's, I mean, I really just wanted to take the trophy and run away. But it just doesn't work that way. What was the junior golf scene like in Sweden?

And was it different for boys and girls? And I'm just kind of curious what it was like growing up there. Yeah, no, I mean, of course, we had a lot of tournaments, mixed girls and boys, some, you know, some just girls event. You know, some of the programs are similar to over here. But, you know, I played all kinds of sports. Also, I wasn't just into golf. I mean, when the winter came, it was, okay, now I'm playing soccer or I would play volleyball or skiing.

So I would just, luckily, we had a basement. My dad bought a big net and a mat, and I could hit about 20 yards into this net, and I would do it every day. And that was my practice. So I worked a lot on my technique in the winter. And, you know, there's a little hole. My dad made a hole or a little cup and I was putting. So it was a lot of technique focused in the winter. And then I did all the other sports. So I feel like when the kind of the snow melted and I was excited to go out, I've kind of taken a little bit of a break. So I think it's healthy to try different sports. I'm not sure quite sure

how to ask this question. But in kind of doing some research, I'm trying to gather. And I'm wondering your perspective on the difference between maybe culture in America and culture in Europe when you're growing up. And the way I kind of read it was it was almost in your culture, it was seen not frowned upon to be so successful at something, but almost kind of when you stick out a little bit amongst everyone else, you can feel more like a more separated than you were like kind of admired in that. Is there any, do you have any perspective on that? Is that, am I onto something there? Yeah, I think you're onto something. I don't know how to ask it. No, I think that that's probably true. You know, it's the common person is, you know,

is seen upon. Okay. But you know, when you stick out a lot of times, you know, it's like it's not really that welcomed as much, whether it's success or whether it's just, you know, being a little bit more open and talking about stuff. I think things have changed the last maybe 10 years or so. But early on, you know, it felt like it's acceptable to win the lottery. But, you know, to win a million doing something well, it's kind of frowned upon. So, but like I said, I think it's changed, but for a while, that's kind of how it was. What was it like going back to Sweden after you had become famous? Well, I mean, it was really nice.

I mean, obviously, you know, I had a little bit of a name as a junior golfer and then to come back after college and then to come as a professional and trying to follow the footprints of Lisa Lott Neumann or Helen Alfredson who had both had won majors and to kind of be the next Swede so it was it was very nice a nice welcome and you know golf at that time was you know it's big I mean it's still it's big today but this was 95-96 and and girls golf was popular. So you won the U.S. Open in 95. I want to know, when was the first time you kind of felt comfortable

in calling yourself the best player in the world? Yeah, I mean, it took a while. Yeah? I mean, I think winning one tournament is obviously great, but it doesn't justify you to be the best or belong to that kind of group. So, you know, I felt like I had to win some more to prove to myself that it's, you know, it wasn't a fluke. You know, I had more in me.

And so I think I just, you know, what was good for me was it gave me confidence that I made the right decision and I'm working on the right things. In my mind at that time in 95, I mean, I felt like I was, I had so much more to give. I mean, first I was just second year on tour and I certainly felt like I hadn't reached my potential in any aspect of the game. You know, I could hit it further.

I can hit it straighter. I could hit more greens. I can have fewer putts, et cetera. I mean, I was, so I think it just kind of gave me the motivation, like, hey, this, you're doing something right, keep on working on it. And so I, you know, I just kind of changed my goals. I elevated them and I pushed myself harder. And, and then, you know, when I defended the US Open title in 96, I think that's more, you know, I felt like it wasn't a fluke. It was more, okay, this hard work is paying off. And this is, this is something that I think is going to, you know, I felt like it wasn't a fluke. It was more, okay, this hard work is paying off.

And this is something that I think is going to be one of the harder ones for you to answer. But you only get so many chances to kind of tap into what makes somebody great. And so in your own mind, what specific skills or in what way were you able to achieve the greatness that you achieved? Was it, for people that aren't familiar with your game, you weren't hitting it 50 yards past people. You were very precise. But how did you achieve that in your own words? I think being very determined, being very disciplined, being stubborn probably. And just really, I mean, I put all my effort into my game. I mean, to be successful in anything in life, you have to dedicate yourself.

You have to commit yourself. You can't be distracted by you have to dedicate yourself. You have to commit yourself. You can't be distracted by a lot of different things. You have to stay the course. And I think in my case, like you said, I mean, I wasn't, you know, I didn't out drive people by 50 yards. I mean, I didn't, you know, it was just, I think the consistency, I really didn't have a lot of weaknesses towards the end. I worked on my weaknesses. Early on, I have a lot of weaknesses towards the end. I worked on my

weaknesses. Early on, I had a lot of weaknesses. I love to practice my strengths. I mean, it's fun to hit shots that you're good at. And then you start to grow up or realize that you got to spend time on the things that you're not that good at, forearms or putting or whatever it was that I just didn't like. I started to spend time on that. And when I started to spend time on those type of shots, I realized that, of course, I got better. And then it got more fun. And eventually, it just didn't really matter what shot I would hit, I would just enjoy the challenge. So I think that, you know, maturing and understanding your weaknesses, but just knowing yourself is really important. But in golf, it's between your ears. I think that my strongest club was

probably the 15th club. Just having a strong mind. Again, it goes back to being determined and disciplined, but believing in myself and, you know, standing over a shot, trusting it, be able to dissociate crappy shots through the years, you know, stand there and just, you know, just see perfect shots. And so I had a lot of confidence, I had a lot of belief in myself. And I think, you know, like I said, I'm 5'6", so I'm not the tallest there and not the strongest, but you put all those pieces together. And, you know, when you look at players today on tour, you can see, you know, they have

a lot of those type of things. You look at young girls, which I do here with our Anika Invitational, is you can kind of see it's not necessarily the players that have the most technically sound swing. Or it's just in golf or in anything in life, I think it's like a puzzle. Their pieces need to fit. And the pieces need to fit who you are. You know, you can't take somebody else's piece and try to push it in. You know, it's like you take a square and a circle and you try to bang it in. It's not going to work.

But having said that, I think there are a lot of combinations to make it work. You find your own recipes and believe in yourself. Because it's funny, we talked about the US Open and winning in 95, when I got that call from the LPGA, the thought that I had, or kind of what I read between the lines was they wanted me to be the next Nancy Lopez. Well, it's very hard to be Nancy Lopez. Nancy is very special. She has done a lot for the game. We have total different personalities. And I felt when I hang up the phone is I can't be somebody that I'm not. You know, I'm not, you know, I'm from Sweden. I'm more shy.

I'm, you know, but hopefully I have other skills that could be, you know, important to the tour and help the tour in different ways. So I think for anybody listening or for whoever, it's just, it's okay to have your own way, you know, but I think you need to be authentic. I think you need to be, you know, true to again, yourself and others. And it's okay. You don't have to pretend to be somebody you're not. When you were a young player, did you ever, did you ever have to learn that the hard way?

Did you ever try to imitate something from somebody else's game? I did look up to other players. I mean, I would look, you know, growing up in Sweden, of course, we didn't have the technology that we have today. So it was through more golf magazines or whatever, Golf Digest I read. And, you know, so I saw Bernard Langer from Germany. I just saw his, you know, he was just such a workhorse. And then you've got Greg Norman who's just got this charisma and power.

And then, again, you've got Nancy who is just this beautiful smile, just welcoming. And then Arnold Palmer, very similar. Jack Nicklaus, who just won everything. So for me, it was like, okay, well, if I could have a little bit of that, if I can have a little bit of that and just kind of learn from others. So I think that's just kind of how you look at things. Speaking as somebody that was very impressionable as a kid, our high school coach used to have us watch LPGA

swings and try to learn from that. He said, don't try to swing like a PGA Tour pro. Learn from these swings. I have to say you are a bit responsible for some hosel rockets I hit trying to copy your move where you kind of turn your head a bit and you just struck it. You and David Duvall had a move that I was always trying to copy as a kid and it didn't

translate to it that well for me. You've got to be your authentic self. I know. You can't be trying to steal this from anyone else. Just say it. I was like, if I were to listen to your advice instead of trying to copy your swing, it might have been more successful. I'm curious, going through a lot of what you just said there, the idea of golf kind of being everything, eating, sleeping, breathing, golf, in order to achieve these goals. Did that ever become difficult for you at times?

Did you ever feel like you were missing out on stuff? Was it ever hard to go to the range or were you that into it? I would say that I was pretty much into it. I mean, of course, there were moments or events that I would miss out. But to be clear, I mean, I divided my season up into three parts. It was a practice season, tournament season, and the rest season. And I really focused. When I talk about rest, I'm talking about rest.

You know, I wouldn't touch a golf club for like five weeks, so I would kind of do the things I liked then. But when it was practice and when it was tournament, that was my thing. So, you know, again, it's like anything. You know, you sacrifice a few things to achieve some other things. And do I regret that? No, I really don't. I mean, my goal when I joined the tour was to leave it knowing that I have given my all. Right. and prepared. But I would say that, you know, once I stepped away, which is now, you know, 10 years,

I'm making up for the things that I missed. So, but, you know, you just have to kind of put a window and say, hey, this is my career, this is now. And especially as a female athlete, I mean, that window is not very big. And, you know, luckily I was, you know, I was only, I was hurt a little, but not much too. And so you got to take advantage of that opportunity. I mean, if you don't keep on working forward, other girls will pass you or other athletes. And so it's a tough race. It really is. And again, I just wanted to, I knew this was my window and I was going to do everything I could to achieve everything I wanted. What kind of things did you do during the rest season? I mean, I stick to different hobbies and I tell all these girls, it's okay to have some time off. I stick to, you know, different hobbies and I tell all these girls, it's okay to have some time off.

It's okay to have some you time and do what you like. I mean, whether it, I mean, I love to cook. I love to do other sports. Like I would ski, I would play tennis, you know, I would work out and just, you know, hang with my friends. You need to unwind, you need to charge your batteries. So it's important to have a hobby, whether it's photography or painting or whatever, it's rock climbing, do something so you can get away from the busy times on tour. Because once you get back on the plane and you know you have a few tournaments in a row, there's not going to be a lot of time for that. But again, everybody has to kind of find their niche, what works for them. But when you come out to a tournament, again, you need to be ready to play. My first year on tour, I was so excited that I got my card. I played seven

tournaments in a row. And it took me a while to realize, well, maybe this is not the best way to play your best every week. So eventually, towards the end, it was two to three tournaments in a row. And that's where I was able to keep my consistency. So it all depends on what you want, your goals are, and your expectations. I want to kind of talk a bit about, so you had this early success, you won the two US Opens in the 90s, and then Arrival emerges for you, Akari Webb, and you changed things at a certain time point. You changed your fitness regimen and everything, your dedication to the game. Talk us through that transition. What was the main motivation for that? And what all did you do to kind of take things to the next level?

Yeah, it was in 2000. I know exactly. You know, I was number one, like you said, after 95, 96, 97, and then I dropped to fourth place. And I was not happy about that. I knew I could be better. And so I went back. What led to that, by the way? What do you think? I mean, obviously competition, and they were playing better. And I had to try to figure out that myself. So I went back to the drawing board, and I kind of looked at, you know, I've always been doing stats. I'm a big number cruncher, maybe because my dad worked for IBM, and he sent me to computer school.

And I did statistics early on. So, you know, some people might think that, you know, it's nerdy. But for me, I like numbers, and I took it into my job, so to speak. So I thought this would be a fun way to figure out my strength and my weaknesses. So, you know, I looked at it and I said, you know what, I can be better at this. I can be better at this. And then eventually I just said, hey, if I am the number one in every category, driving, distance, greens, bunkers, whatever, putter. I mean, if I'm number

one and ever, nobody can stop me. So I said, okay, that's my goal, which is very, very, very high. But why not? So then you start with one piece and you say, okay, how do I hit more greens? Okay, then you're trying to figure out, is it a technique thing? Is it an equipment thing? Is it mental? Whatever it is, I'm trying to figure. And, and so I spent time on every part. And then that came to the fitness aspect of it. And I realized that, you know, I've always been into sports. And then I realized, you know what, I really don't train like a professional athlete. If you look at other sports, tennis, skiing, whatever, volleyball, basketball, they have like a fitness regimen. I mean, they do. And what do I have?

Well, I go jog a little bit. I would go in the gym. I take some dumbbells or whatever. And I said, you know what, maybe I should do something. I mean, at that time, fitness wasn't such a big deal. Tiger had come to the scene. He was following Gary Player and Greg Norman, I would say. But we really didn't have that on the ladies' tour.

And I remember starting with a trainer and having a weightlifting program. I got so many comments, you're going to get so bulky, you can't swing. But I took the risk. I said, I need to be stronger because how am I going to be the longest on tour if I don't have strength? If I don't have strength, I can't get, you know, and I need more speed and then I get the power. So I need to have, especially the upper body, you know, it's pretty strong from tennis and soccer and skiing. So I felt like I was strong in my lower part, but not arms and back and chest. So I took the risk of working out more. And so I started three to five days a week, you know, consistently,

and I've never done that. It sounds funny when you're, you know, top of the world in a sport that you ever knew worked out. But so, you know, it took about three, four months and all of a sudden, you know, I was hitting the club. I'm not kidding. It was just, it was further because I had more speed, I had better control. And, and, uh, I was like, wow, this is a great winning combination. So I believe I was number one by the end of the year again. But, you know, yeah, Kari came on the scene, Sari Pak came on the scene. We had a fun rivalry, the three of us,

from totally different parts of the world. I would say we're different personalities but still had a lot of respect for each other. But, yeah, the three of us, we won a lot of majors for a few years. Yeah, and that year alone, you won eight times. You won a major, and you shot 59, and you won $2 million that first year. Not too shabby.

First one to ever do that. And then Kari Webb said, if you would have won eight more tournaments in 2002, that she would eat a hat. You won 11. Did she follow through on that promise? I don't know. I need to find out. We might have to get in touch there on that. What was the first made-for-TV event that you played in,

kind of under the lights or alternate shot or skins game? Do you remember what? The first one I could find was in 2001, alternate shot, you and Tiger against Kari Webb and David Duvall. Does that sound right? Yeah, that was one of them. That was fun. I mean, that was totally TV, and it was a. I mean, that was totally TV and it was a big horn.

Was that nerve-wracking? Yes. I mean, these guys were the best on the PGA Tour, even though Kari and I were the best on the women's tour. But knowing the last few holes would be in the dark, it was so much fun. I mean, that was the first time I kind of got introduced to those guys and we had a lot of fun.

Tiger was my partner, which was, I think anybody would take him as your partner. I'll never forget, we were one of the first few holes. He drove it into, we play ultimate shot, he drove it into a bush, some kind of spiky bush. And I'm standing there and I'm trying to looking around, trying to figure out where I should drop it. You know, like, where am I not, because this is in the desert. He comes up to me, he's like, what are you thinking? I said, well, out where i should drop it you know like where am i not because this is in the desert he comes up to me he's like what are you thinking i said well i'm gonna drop it he goes drop like there was not an option so i normally don't practice out of bushes but okay i'm in the fairway buddy and he's like well just focus the way he said just focus i said yes sir and i headed out somewhere did you learn from from

Tiger in that process or what was it like kind of play that was your first time playing alongside he's very intense very intense very I mean luckily I've spent some time with him afterwards the next few years but just the mental he was so intense, so focused. So that was a great learning lesson. I mean, of course, they can hit some great shots, but just the way he was, that was very different than some other guys I play with. And then on to 2003, you win two majors, almost win the other two. But I could be wrong in saying this.

It seems like the 2003 Colonial stands out as the moment of 2003 for you. What was the process like from getting a sponsor's invite into that event to deciding to play? Is it something you always wanted to do? Was there any kind of decision to actually be made there? Or once you got the offer, were you all in? Well, you're right. 2003 was a big year for me. You know, again, I'd been number one now for a while, and I still felt like I could be better.

You know, in my mind, I mean, of course I looked at the rankings I looked at, but I also looked at my statistics. And I knew in my mind that I could be better. So I was trying to figure out ways to push me to kind of get there. You know, I practiced with the guys who were living in Orlando. There was a lot of PGA pros in the neighborhood. I practiced quite a bit with Tiger, learning from him. And, you know, grew up when as a young girl, I mean, it was, it was just boys at the club, my sister, and then the two of us would, we would hang with 10 boys. It wasn't, it wasn't like a gender thing. It was just more, we play golf together. So, so I said, well,

I remember getting a question at a press conference where they said, hey, would you ever want to play with a man? And I was like, yes, that's what I need. And I said, sure, I would love to. And I remember walking away from that press conference, Mark Steinberg, who is Tiger and a few other guys, agent, and had been mine for a long time. He said, do you have any idea what you said in there? And I said, yeah, I'm playing with a man. He goes, okay. So this was in January. And then eventually we, you know, we decided to play at the Colonial, it was called Bank of America. And so I had four months to get ready. And it was, it was a great journey. You can call it a journey to get to prepared for, first of all, a longer golf course, you know,

different competitors and all the things that I thought I could, that I needed to be ready for. So it was an amazing experience. I mean, I look back at my career and that's certainly one of them that pops up and it's not so much about how I played. It's more about the experience, the people, the, you know, the lessons I learned and, you know, to kind of generalize it a little bit for, for other people to kind of put their, their own perspective is, you know, we, we get opportunities in our life, but we never know how many we get and, and then they do come and, and, uh, you know, being shy,

it's, it's very easy to just say no, because, you know, you maybe don't have the courage or you just wonder, you know, am I going to make a fool out of myself? But I said, if you don't say yes, you will never know. And this was that opportunity. I could certainly have said no, but I'd probably sit here and I was still wondering what it would be like. You know, if you're going to get better at something, if you want to test yourself, you know, you need to have the courage to say yes. You know, I had four months to prepare and I'm so glad I did it. did it. I really didn't really need to play over the weekend because it wasn't so much, again, about the golf.

It was more about the experience. And I remember going back to the LPGA the following week or the week after, and I just had so much more confidence, so much more just belief in myself. And I think that's the reason why I highlight that event in my career. Because I imagine that at that point, you've already won several major championships. You've accomplished so much on the LPGA scene. I imagine there's not any situation that would have made you any close, that could simulate the nerves that were like teeing it up for the men for the first time. I remember seeing and reading about kind of you struggle to get words out on the first tee.

Is that right? I mean, take us to that first tee, the first round Thursday. Yeah, but like you said, I mean, again, how do you prepare for, you know, what happens after you win? How do you prepare to play against the men if you've never done that? I mean, this to me was, you know, the biggest stage or, you know, the biggest, I mean, talk about something I never would have thought I would do, you know, when I was missing tournament on purpose to, you know, when I was missing tournament

on purpose to, you know, fast forward 15 years, you're going to tee up and everybody's looking. Because for perspective, no female had played in a PGA Tour event since 1945 before you did this. Yeah. So it wasn't something that was very common. So yeah, I mean, there was, I remember, you know, a few things. That's the thing is I remember a few things and there's some things I really don't remember, which is funny because, you know, I was there, but I guess I was so focused. But walking down the, you know, from the putting green to, you know, the first tee, I kind of looked at my caddy and I said, you know what, I'm not really sure we got it, what we got ourselves into. He goes, well, it's a little too late you know we're gonna be on the tee and you know 50 yards so but yeah no i stood he told me after terry mcnamara my caddy the last

you know nine years of my career super guy and so it was kind of an experience together but he told me afterwards that i had turned to him before it was time to hit and my lips were moving but no words came out oh my god and he's yeah that's kind of what he said. How is this going to go? So, yeah, it was – I mean, we all deal with nerves differently. You know, I played extremely well from tee to green. Around the greens, that's kind of when I get a little nervous. You know, I have a tendency to lose the feel a little bit on putts. So, it could be a speed thing.

And these greens, of of course were very fast so and speed is so important when you have 180 greens to kind of find the combination so but you know I had a putt to shoot under par so I mean I was very pleased with my performance and you know to go out there and I mean I knew that the guys I would play with first of all they could have not been any nicer I knew that they would outdraw me with, you know, lots of yards. So I always be hitting first into the greens, but just having that mindset. And so but you know, again, you know, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, right? Well, this may this may qualify for the blackout period that you don't remember what happened. But you you say something out loud to yourself as you get ready to stand up to the ball in the first tee kind of with a little smile. Do you remember what you loud to yourself as you get ready to stand up to the ball in the first tee, kind of with a little smile.

Do you remember what you said to yourself? Well, I try to be positive and say, you know what, you've done this 100 times. This is just another – because I was hitting a forward. That's what I had in my bag at that time. I said, this is just another forward. The ball doesn't know where you are. I mean, the ball is just being teed up. And just, again, I have a special

pre-shot routine. It's 24 seconds. And I try to keep that all the time. You know, by the time you put the glove on, by the time you do the waggles and by the time you visualize all of that, it's 24 seconds. So my caddy actually timed it and he said it was 23 and a half. So I was still kind of on time. So that was my thing just kind of do what you normally do and you know 24 seconds i've never thought of thinking of the pre-shot routine down to that level but probably along along the same lines i'm thinking of that t-shot if i was super nervous i would have taken the biggest club head in the bag and hit driver and just pounded it forward would not have been the club on those lines i'm curious do you remember what your bag

setup was for for that week? Because obviously, you know, long ways into a lot of greens and stuff. Yeah, no, I mean, I had my normal setup. I did use my, you know, at that time we didn't have hybrid. I know it's only 2003, but, you know, 15 years, a lot of things have happened in technology. You know, I did have a seven wood and I want to say a five wood and a four wood. So it was a four wood plus. So to say a five wood and a four wood. So it was a four wood plus. So it's kind of like a between-ish. But I did hit a lot of those

seven woods into the green. I mean, that's the thing is, you know, people always ask me, so how come you picked that golf course or that tournament? Why didn't you pick that one or this one? I said, well, I wanted, you know, a course that would obviously highlight my strengths and that one of them was accuracy. So we wanted a course where accuracy was important. But what I realized once the course was set up, that it seemed like anyway that every fairway bunker was at 250 yards carry. And that's when I, at my peak, I i carried about 252 so it was right there so every time i came to a par four or par five the question was do you want to try hit the driver and it was

right at my carry so actually i hit a lot more forwards off the tee than uh than drivers just because to me i figured it's better to be in a short grass and hit rather than standing in a fairway bunker with some severe lips. And that's the thing is the guys I play with, they carry more than 250. So a lot of these bunkers don't even exist. So looking back at it, I mean, you can always do that,

but it was good. That's why a lot of times, I mean, I hit a lot of fairways because I hit forward, but then I had longer clubs in. For people totally unfamiliar with the with the ladies game how much yardage do you think you're you're giving up to the average player out there oh i mean i'm talking probably three four clubs yeah minimum yeah i mean they were hitting seven eight hours in and i'm hitting maybe seven would so maybe even more at sometimes i mean there was a few

holes so i hit the driver but you know so i, so I carried, I mean, I carried, I drove at about 270 and the guys I played with at that time, you know, it was like 290. But then I'm hitting forward, so you can imagine. So I gave extra away. After that week, did you, was that kind of like, I checked the box, I've done this, I'm moving on? Or did you entertain playing in more men's events into the future? I did not entertain playing any more PGA events, but I was lucky to get invited to those what we call silly season events, skins games,

different TV opportunities. Those need to come back, by the way. Of course, the players like them. It's entertaining. It's fun. I think it's good for the game. I enjoy watching when the girls and the women and the men play together. I think we's good for the game. And I mean, I enjoy watching when the girls and the women and the men play together. For sure.

And I think we have things to offer to each other to make it a little bit fun. So yeah, it was a fun time. I mean, I look back at my career and it was just had a lot of fun. Did you take any of the criticism to heart? Any of the players that were critical of you being out there? Did you brush that right off your shoulders? I tried to brush it off. Yeah. I mean, I was very lucky.

I got an invite, and I knew it. I didn't necessarily ask for one other than they came, and I said, you know, thank you so much, and hopefully I add something to your event to make it and appreciate the opportunity to play. And, you know, it was another reason. I wasn't going to do it anymore. It was a one-time thing, and, you know, a lot of times, you know, they give reason i wasn't going to do it anymore it's a one-time thing and you know a lot of times you know they give it to a local to somebody um so yeah no that was that

was it well what was the best thing that happened that week what what sticks out i mean i'm telling you that the people that i met the stories i would say that probably surfaced afterwards the stories of parents fathers taking their daughters out to watch. We did a golf channel kind of summary 10 years later, and they had found these people that came to the tournament that I didn't necessarily meet at that time, and they came and shared the story how they drove thousands of miles to watch, how they said, I wanted my girls to see another woman trying to pursue her dream or her career,

to inspire them to do what they wanted to do. You know, that to me was, that's what I look back at the colonial, that it made, hopefully other girls start dreaming about fulfilling their dreams that, you know, don't have, you know, the gender thing be in the way for, to stop you to achieve what you want to achieve. And I mean, I have a daughter and a son. And when the age is right, I'm going to talk to them about fulfilling their dreams. Gender shouldn't stop you because your mom, I played with a man in 2003. And I want my son to understand that, that it's okay for girls or women to pursue a dream.

So I think it's just more having a more open mind. And again, it's 15 years ago, which is not that long ago, but I think things are changing. And I think it's great to embrace people. And I mean, the story that I love most about this is I was shooting a commercial with Arnold Palmer with Callaway just, you know, a few months before. And he asked me why I was, why am I playing with a man? And I tried to explain to him that I'm trying to get better. I want to learn from the very best in the world. And I can't think of a better place than to do this. And, and he kind of looked at me and, and I didn't think it really resonated with him. So, but anyway, I had a friend of mine, Charlie, meet him, talk to him.

He was his right-hand man and he had been the commissioner of the LPGA. So he's like, let me just talk to him a little bit. You know, 10 days went by and I get a letter in the mail and it's got that famous umbrella on the outside. And, you know, I opened up the letter and it's from Mr. Palmer and it says, I just, I know you have a big task ahead of yourself. And I want to wish you good luck if I can do anything to help you. And obviously, that was very neat.

But I wanted to know why. Why did it change his mind? So I spoke to Charlie. And Charlie tried to explain to him that I was just another golfer trying to become better. And if there was another tour at that time, when Palmer played, let's say or somewhere, you know, he probably would have played a tour that was better. So just putting in perspective. And I think that's really the whole moral of the whole thing is just to not be afraid, take opportunities and challenge yourself. And you'll be amazed how you kind of step up to these different tasks.

There's plenty more from your career to cover from 2004 to 2008, but I kind of want to talk to you a bit about your process of retiring. You retired when you were 38 in 2008. How did you know it was time to give up the game and do you miss it at all being competitive? You know, I don't miss it at all. I mean, it's funny. It's been 10 years, which is a long time, but I feel like a lot of things have happened since then. 10 years, which is a long time, but I feel like a lot of things have happened since then. You know, I stepped away because I lost my motivation. I stepped away because my heart wasn't in it anymore. I realized that winning a tournament wasn't going to change my life. Winning a major wasn't going to really change anything. And that's when I realized, so why am

I playing? You know, if you're not hungry, why go out there? And especially knowing how much time you put into it. I mean, all the effort you put in all the hours. And if you feel like it doesn't matter what the outcome is, then why should you do it? And so that was one of the reasons. Another reason why I just came back from an injury, a back injury, I was out for about three months and, and I knew in my mind that I can do it if I want to. So I won a few tournaments my last year, 2008, and I knew that I can do this if I want, but the issue is I don't want it anymore. And so I just, it was more just realizing that. And that's when I also started to realize I have so many other interests. And the only way for me to pursue those interests is to step away. And the analogy I use is I, you know, I try to climb Mount Everest for many years.

I get to the top, you know, you sit at the top, it's nice. But all of a sudden you realize that there are other mountains out there. And for me, I wanted to climb those. And the only way to figure that out is to get down this one and start over. So I did that, you know, as you know, in 2008 and 09, I got married and we started a family and foundation, which is one of the reasons I'm here at St. Augustine today for the Alnwick Invitational, but just wanting to pursue other things. And so I don't look back. I don't miss the competition. I loved it when I did it, but I think there's a

time and a place. And now I'm all about sharing my passion and my knowledge to the next generation. What's been the toughest part of the business aspect of things? Well, I think when you step away, when you're good at something, you think you're good at everything. And then you realize that you're not. You know, it's like you're like an 18 handicap in business and you make a lot of mistakes and and also when you step in step away in 2008 the probably the worst economic environment we've seen in a long time and here i come you know full force with you know high-end wine high-end clothing and you know people got their hands in their pockets, you know. So it was like wind in my face, like, okay, hang on a minute.

But I think, you know, some things you just don't know, you know. So I learned a lot of lessons. I learned to be patient, which, again, one of the things that we preach all the time, golf is very similar to life. It teaches you so many things you're going to need. Patience is one of them, you know. Integrity is one of them. Determination. So I just had to be very, you know, take my time. You know, it took me a long time to become number one. I figured I got to put in 10, 20 years to be decent at business. So, you know, it was a wake up call, but also fun. I love the challenge. And you got

to kind of stick to what you know. Adversity is the thing I think that people can learn the most about golf. Like there's way more failing in golf than there is succeeding. And like that's kind of can translate to a lot of different things. Talk to us about your foundation and how you got involved with this event on the AJGA tour and kind of what we're doing here in St. Augustine. Yeah. So when I stepped away that I knew I wanted to get back to the game, I wanted to kind of say thank you. And so I kind of look at the things that was important to me and, you know, female, golf, competition, global, those things kind of, and healthy, those five things came to my mind. So I said, well, let's just, you know,

do something with that. Let's create a competition for young girls or global. you know do something with that let's create a competition for young girls or global have the top tier players be here and then I want it to be more than golf which is our tagline today it's been the last 10 years so we we try to do workshop or educational sessions to teach them more about what's out there where it's nutrition or fitness or whatever to make the tournament a little more special in that sense so yeah here we are. Fast forward, this is our 11th year, and we now have seven tournaments around the world. We have five Anika Invitationals, which is a competition when you have 72 girls ages 12 to 18,

and we now have them in five different continents. We started here in the U.S., not here at the Hall of Fame. In St. Augustine, we started in Orlando, but we've kind of moved around a few times to give the players an opportunity to try different courses. And then we went to China, Mission Hills, which is a golf course I designed outside Hong Kong. Then we have a tournament in Sweden, so that covers Europe.

And then we have in Argentina, which this year actually goes to Uruguay after three years. So we're exploring, we're expanding, getting young girls the opportunity to play. And then we have a tournament of this caliber in New Zealand. So five different continents. And then we have two other ones, a college event. Any on the moon yet or anywhere? No, not yet.

The goal is to get in every corner of the world to inspire young ladies to play this wonderful game. And so this tournament here is really our flagship because you got the winner, the runner-up, and the third place finishing. And all these events, you all come here. So this is a top field where you have players. This year, we have 17 different countries represented. So that's kind of how it started. And then now here, this is where we are again. So now it's been really a lot of fun to just spend time with them. I do a clinic, we do a fun welcome dinner, or we have some kind of different educational sessions. And today we're actually going to have the first tea chapter here in St. Augustine. And these young girls are going to be their coaches. So they're learning how to give back. And so there you go. And so, yes, it's a lot of fun.

Do you still play a lot of golf? I do not play a lot of golf. I really don't. It's tough to... How many rounds a year? Well, it's more than 10, but I don't know if it's less than... Well, it's certainly less than 20, but somewhere in between. I'd still do a lot of corporate outings.

I still do charity events and obviously do a lot of demonstrational clinics with the foundation and so forth. But, you know, to try and juggle family life, our kids are nine and seven. So, you know, being a full-time mom and taking care of the household and trying to be a good wife, it's tough to do everything. One final question that we'd love to ask guests as well. What is the biggest golf fashion regret of your career? I've had a few. Yeah, if you kind of look back at some of the photos that I've seen, you know, when I won the US Open in 1995, I had some really colorful socks. I think there were bears on them, and that photo keeps surfacing.

So, yeah, it's been interesting. But luckily now I'm with Katerin Back, I got my own line. So I get some – No excuses. No, no excuses. I get some good advice from the fashion designers. There you go. Well, Anika, thank you so much for having us down at your event here

and spending some time with us. This was a blast, really insightful. I really appreciate it. Great. Thank you very much for having me. Thank you so much for having us down at your event here and spending, spending some time with us. This was, this was a blast, really insightful and really appreciate it. Great. Thank you very much for having me. Thank you. Be the right club today. Johnny,

that's better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most! Expect anything different?