No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 19: Shane Ryan on his book, and the US Open

Episode Date: June 15, 2015

Shane Ryan, author of the book that everyone in the golf world is talking about, ‘Slaying The Tiger’, joined me to talk about the book, and the U.S. Open. The book is fantastic, and can... The post NLU Podcast: Episode 19, Shane Ryan on his book, and the US Open appeared first on No Laying Up. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yes! That is better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most! Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No Laying Up podcast. I am Chris Solomon and back for, I believe the third time, is author of The New York Times best-selling number one book, Slaying the Tiger, a year inside the ropes on the new PGA tour,

Shane Ryan, Shane, the book came out last week. What is the last week of your life, Ben? It has been a madcap wildhouse romp. It's been good, man. The reaction, I think, has been hugely favorable. It sold really well. It sold beyond what kind of any of us expected so far. Yeah, I mean, I

just say it couldn't have asked for a better week rolling it out. It's been really busy, but you know, this is this is the good kind of busy for sure. I think the the reaction has been overwhelmingly positive, but I think you for an author of a book, you it has drummed up pretty much just the right amount of controversy to the point where people are talking about it yet. You've come under some criticism for a certain part of the books but overwhelmingly I think the overall response has been very positive. What you agree with that? Yeah, I think so, but I think you're right. It's like I'm biased of course, but I personally think that the controversy that's been drummed up the people who have been on the opposite side of the argument have come off looking poorly.

the people who have been on the opposite side of the argument have come off looking poorly. So it has been. It's like been the kind of controversy that's been like sort of easily surmounted, but it's enough to like get people's eyes on it, which means that my cynical formula worked. This is exactly how I planned it. No, no, no, it's the same thing, man. I keep saying. It's like, you know, you've read it. Like I just was trying to be honest and write an honest book about the people that PGA Tour and that has pissed some people off and it's been great. It's been wonderful to piss them off and it's been wonderful that they've drawn attention to the book. I think that says more about the culture around the PGA Tour than necessarily does about

anything you wrote. I know your background is not necessarily rooted in the PGA Tour. This has been a new thing you did following the tour for around a year. It's the same reason I exist or our website exists, as we like to do things differently than the traditional golf media does things. Would you agree that that's the root of what negative sentiment there is out there? That was the root of it. You ruffled some feathers and did things a little bit differently and maybe approach some topics that other people aren't fully comfortable approaching. Yeah, I think so. And I think it does make people

very uncomfortable. And the ways they try to spin it are funny. I was out there and I spent 32 weeks or something on the tour at different tournaments and I think a lot of people are trying to push forward the idea that I went left like on a Thursday of a minor tournament, saw bubble lots and like refused to give someone an autograph and then went and wrote a book. And that is very much not the case. Yeah, I was there in French. I probably went to more tournaments that year than most normal beat reporters, but yeah, I don't know, man, what do you think? It's like, it's almost like in golf, people, there's a certain section of fans that identifies with the players to such a degree that if you criticize the players, it's like you're criticizing them, like they're getting their best buddies with Patrick Reed or Bubba or something.

It's very confusing to me. I just, I don't understand. So, so a bit of background, I think tell me if you think I'm describing this properly that some of the criticism you've come under is talking a bit about some certain parts of players past or their background that weren't made available by that player necessarily. There's been some contesting of facts you've stated in the book relating to Patrick Reed, but for the most part, no one's really criticized the truth behind what you've said about Victor Dubuison or Boba Watson in that regard, but the controversy has been around, you know, you've uncovered these

facts and you've also come to your own opinions on the question is why write about it that that's the that's the antagonist article i guess uh... argument there so how do you respond to people that say you know it's not your place to write about these certain things yeah and i think i think you're right that there's been a attempt by people to uh... attack the truth of it. And Patrick Greed's the most famous example. And you know, anybody who's curious about that should

visit the dead's fan article, I think the title is Patrick Greed, Attempts to Defend himself or takes a swing at defending himself slices into the woods. It gives a full recap of that. And I just like to point that out because, you know, anytime you're reported and people are saying you're writing lies or that you didn't research it fully, you can't back it up. The comments like, you know, you want to defend yourself. But anyway, yeah, no, it's now, so the argument is shifted because they can't prove that something's not true. It's shifted to, well, you shouldn't be doing this.

You shouldn't be researching the background of the player's lives. And I honestly found that very difficult to argue against because as far as I know, a principle of journalists in an American has been that if you're writing a profile on somebody, a public figure, you investigate their life and you don't just get one source, the player. You know, you know, otherwise a player can just hand me a statement and say, here, I want you to write this. This is how I view myself. My agent cooked the stuff, so just publish this and whatever out that you're writing in. Yeah, I did journalism.

Like, period, yes. If you don't like journalism, then yeah, make that argument, and that's fine, but I disagree with you. I mean, that was the crux of page McKenzie's argument, was that the players should not be looked at beyond the results on the course, And I vehemently disagree with that attitude. Yeah, I think that that back to what I was saying, just about traditional golf media in the way they quote unquote report is that times they are for better or worse or more aptly described as their PR arm for the players, right?

I mean, it's sure they can. Yeah. And I think in this sport more than others, and I don't really have the data or the evidence or the background to really support that statement. But I feel like in golf, it's like that more than it is, maybe basketball, football, or baseball, where writers can be more critical, or they don't necessarily need the access to players like golfers, like golf media does. I mean, it's a pretty tight knit community.

Like they recognize the guys in the press conferences and if there seems to be this culture of if you're gonna write this about me, I'm not answering your questions anymore. I'm not giving you the scoop on anything. I think that's kind of what the golf, I've was very critical of the way the golf channel approached the Patrick Reed story

and that they were basically acting like a PR firm for Patrick Reed and they were protecting their own, their players, the guys that they report on, whereas if this was 150th ranked player in the world, but they would be taking the same angle. So I think that that's where, again, you've just kind of ruffled some feathers and some people that it doesn't sit right. Yeah, and I think, I will say for the goal to, they had me on Thursday and gave me a ton of time and I think I will say for the golf tour, they had me on Thursday and gave me a ton of time and I appreciate that. But yeah, I agree with you, and I think the difference is that if you're a reporter covering a team sport, you're covering the team.

Whereas when you're covering golf, you're covering the individual. So if you offend somebody when you're covering a team, well, they're going to be traded eventually or you have everybody else on the team you can talk to or whatever. Whereas in golf, if you're a beat reporter and you piss off by the Watson or you piss off Tiger, that's like 25 years maybe, or you know, you really damage your career, you've cut off access. And so there's a very good reason why sometimes golf media seems like a PR arm. And for the record, I don't think that's true across the the board but it comes across that way because it is that way I mean the system is entrenched that way and that's why you know with this book I was like the philosophy was I don't care I don't care what happens to me after it if

I never cover golf again or the players boycott me or if agents hate my guts and whatever it's whatever the book is I'm just gonna write an honest book and let the chips fall where they're gonna fall I, yeah, that's the whole attitude behind it. And it's, it's obviously ruffles and feathers. Well, I think, I mean, it's worked out well, though. I mean, I, a full disclaimer. I would, I've read the book. I just finished it this past weekend. And you and I are friends. We've never met in person, but I would lie to you and say that I loved it even if I didn't but I I would But that is not the case. I really did love it

I plow up through it once I had the time to sit sit down and read it Had about two hours in the Budapest Airport this past weekend to read it and Everyone that was waiting for the plane that I was waiting for was had a had a copy in their hand as well So the people the people of Budapestry are big fans of slaying the tiger. I would love to get an email from my publisher, Agent Bing, like, you're not going to believe this, but your book is selling like crazy and Boot of Best in Hungary. I mean, they are really into it. There was no golf alter there, but they're, they're really taking this. I will say I was on the plane yesterday finishing it and there was a really nice Malaysian man sitting next to me Who wasn't even being sneaky about the fact that he was just reading the book like paid word for word

He was just had his eyes on the book Like almost to the point where he was kind of upset when I would turn the page if he wasn't done yet So you're going a little quick. This is not my first question. I would ask you to slow down. Well, that's good. He's going to take it back to Malaysian. Now, it's going to spread in all these very strange countries. You're welcome for spreading your book worldwide.

So if you were somebody that's listening to this podcast that hasn't bought the book yet, what would you if you were to share, I mean, there's been excerpts that have released online and you've released a chapter Bubble Watson, chapter on Matt Everey, I've seen one on Patrick Read, obviously. What would you point someone to? What part of the book would you point to? And be like, this is what you're going to get in this book that you can't get somewhere

else. This is what I, this is my story, this is what I got. This is what I said that somebody else isn't willing to say. What would be your main, what would you would share with somebody as you're selling point for your book oh man yeah that's a good question there's just a it kind of depends on on what you're looking for I think you know obviously I wrote all these chapters and I love them all and I stand behind them all you know if you're looking for like a kind of uploading story about a guy who came from Rags to Riches you know

you'll like the Jason Day story or the Ricky Fowler story or the Billy Horses story. If you're looking for, you know, more information on guys who are controversial, Patrick Reed and Bub Watson, I really, like, so I think some of my favorite writing the book comes in the Rory chapters. I guess I'll stop there because I'm slowly naming every single chapter

in the book. You should be proud of your work. You should like it. Let me just read you the Table of Contents, Chris. But I will say the last thing is I think my greatest feat of investigating reporting in the book was the Victor DeGleeson thing because it was this mystery that kind of eluded everybody and there was a language barrier there. So there was a lot to go through and I'm pretty proud that I got his story.

So yeah, various things like that. So there was a lot to go through and I'm pretty proud that I got his story. So yeah, various things like that. The whole book. Well, let's follow up to that or the complete opposite of that. What is something you wrote in the book that you already, I don't know when you submitted a final draft, I know you had submitted several chapters or most of it and I believe in the fall and then you had wait a chapters or most of it in, I believe, in the fall. And then you had wait a long process of writing a book.

It takes a long, a long time for it to be published. And like, there's a follow up chapter on what Jordan Speed did at the master's issue, but it's very short spoiler alert. Sorry if I'm ruining your book. But is there anything you wrote in the book that you look at, like looking back at now, you're like, oh, I would already like that one back. Oh, that's funny. Yeah, spoiler alert.

Speed for the master's. Oh, I would already like that with back. Oh, that's funny. Yeah, spoiler alert. Speak on the mask. What if there's somebody out there who's just been like not watching golf for a year waiting for my book? I don't want to ruin it. It's got a DVR. It's long with last night's Game of Thrones. He's got him both DVR and he hasn't watched it yet. Yeah, that's the benefit. That's why all the Budapest readers love it. Because they have no idea. This isn't one anything. It's all very suspenseful. No, you know, I think the closest thing that comes to that is the Jordan's beef chapter I think I you know I think

that's the one where it's like well you write about the season of struggle and you write about these times when he came really close in these big tournaments but seemed to sort of talk himself out of it, and you spend a lot of time analyzing the weakness, like sort of mental weakness as I identified it, and devote a good amount of reporting and a good amount of energy to that, and then what happens is he overcomes the obstacle in less than a year and months of masters.

But what I've said before is that, yeah, that looks a little, I guess you could look at it that way, but I always felt like I was watching someone grow up. And I think what's awesome about the book is that you have now this document of a guy overcoming the last thing that's keeping him from greatness. Obviously his game is there, obviously he's more mature than any other 20-year-old in the history of the world. But he had this one impediment he couldn't get over and this is the story of the year where he was trying to get over it. You know, we'll never see that again in the speed. So I'm actually super happy that I have that. What's one thing that's come from the book since since its release or before its release that has been I guess the coolest thing or like

the biggest surprise like somebody you heard from like,, I did not expect this person to read my book or this person to encourage people to buy it. What's been like the coolest thing that's come from this whole process? Yeah, Tiger Woods reached out to me and she said, I don't read books. I've never read a book before, but yours was amazing.

And I'm gonna write an Amazon review for you. So that was it. Just one question, Mr. Ryan, why is my name on the cover of the book? I'm gonna write an Amazon review for you. Just one question, Mr. Ryan. Why is my name on the cover of the book? I'm just... Like, no, I wasn't referring to you, Tiger. I'm sorry for that misconception. It's a metaphor.

It's a metaphor. I love that. No, you know, boy, that's a good question. I feel like it's a lot of the usual suspects we've read it, but there have been a lot of media people who've reached out to me. It's been cool. You know, Kerry Williams on the Coltino has been just a huge supporter of the book. A lot of people saw the interview and they're like, well, he kind of grilled you. And it's like, yeah, but that's what he's supposed to be. That's how it should be. And so, yeah, he's been a big supporter. You

know, President Clinton, I guys like that. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding.

I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding.

I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I'm. Kanye reached out and said, can't put it down. Riley Curry, I'm sure you heard from her on the book. Riley Curry has been an enormous supporter of mine, even before this book.

Going back to my grant one day, she has been amazing. Well, one question I've been stewing over and going around in my head is, again, back to some of the, let's keep bringing up all these criticisms of the book. I feel like I'm down trolling your book. But you, something like the bubble lots and most of the, or a lot of what's in the bubble lots in chapter against spoiler alert is about how he basically wouldn't talk to you. And one of the analogies that Paige McKenzie used on the golf channel when she spoke about it was that you, it's, she's it sound like maybe to her that you came

off like a scorned writer that basically bubble wouldn't talk to you so you went and shredded them. I think you would argue otherwise but an analogy she used was that which I know you probably don't want to be too critical of people to golf channel but I have no problem doing it. That she was once snubbed by Corey Pavan in a golf tournament, 15 years prior, but for an autographed and she hated him for 15 years. And then she, her brother met him years later and it was the nicest person ever. And she compares that to you trying week after week after week after week to get in touch with Bubble Watson in an interview and not being available.

And then, but I think you make it pretty clear in that chapter that what you're writing is basically your opinion of him, based on what you've gathered from others, and you gave Bubba the chance to speak on the record to talk about his childhood, to talk about him in general, and he wouldn't speak to you. Is that a fair representation of how the bubble lots and stories written? Yeah, yeah. And you know, like the Corey Payton story, let's be honest, it's devastating to me. It's going to go down as one of the great moments. The biggest time you've gotten burned in your entire life

That was that was so confusing. We'll see if that story We know what was up or what was down. I didn't get to see it at the time because I left But you know I watched it later and it was like what does that mean? That's it's I too I was at work and I just like tuned in to just that like I turned it into the first time and just saw that part And you weren't there. I was like, what is going on here? Why is this being just going? Wasn't he just on? Why couldn't she have said this when he was on? What is going on here? No, but you know, what's come of that? And I just, with one guy wrote a whole negative review on his blog saying that Shane Ryan, all he did was write positive stories about

players. He had access to a negative stories about guys who wouldn't talk to them. Well, let me give you guys who talk to me. Patrick Reed, Justin Johnson, I had a long interview with, you know, Victor DeBleason, I had an email interview with, okay, here's guys I didn't talk to. Adam Scott, Rory McElroy, I'm trying to think who else. A Kimer I barely talk to, you know, and Ricky Fowler I talked to at the very end, but that chapter would have looked super similar, even if I hadn't talked to it. So, there's like your reputation right there. Like, there's a lot of guys who said no to me all year, all year, time after time, and they came off looking great in the book because I'm honest. I'm not some petriot dude who is like, you know, I'm not like looking at Cory Pave and not giving an autograph and then writing a scathing chapter That's such a stupid reduction. Sorry of what my book is and it's insulting

You're not there. Yeah, it's it like I really honestly and And this is actually like going I'm gonna make this point to people talk about oh Nobody's gonna talk to reporters anymore because of your book There's nothing in my book, or like almost literally nothing, that I got from a one-on-one interview that was astoundingly negative. Okay, Patrick Reed didn't sit down with me and talk about, you know, everything, all the controversial stuff. Patrick Reed sat down and talked to me and gave me the glowing details of that himself,

as you would expect as anybody would, and that formed a big part of that chapter. If I hadn't talked to Patrick Reed, that chapter would have been even more negative, because I wouldn't have had this other stuff. You know what I'm saying? So there's no downside to sitting down and talking with reporters who are going to write about you. I think, unless you're literally like someone who's going to spout off racist hate speech. You know what I mean? If you're anything short of that, you're going to come off looking good. So anyway, yeah, the thing about access and punishing people for not talking to me is just blatantly untrue.

Well, it's not like you miss...no one's accusing you at any point of misquoting anything. So that whole argument of no one's going to talk to the press anymore, basically that would stem from you running with something they said and turning into something that it's not. But that's not the root of any of the criticism you've received isn't no no that that goes back to the thing nobody's nobody's attacking me on like the truth of the book you know the merits of the book except Patrick Reed but yeah you know so so you what you're seeing here is the argument adjusting and the argument transforming over and over another thing I've heard is that I hate golf and that's what you know

why am I ready to book about golf and I hate it? That's the newest iteration of the anti-slinging tiger takers. There'll be more. They'll be other things. I met Amazon reviews saying the book was too obsessed with tiger. I don't know. There's a lot of different angles, I guess, people are taking, but that's the way it goes. That's good, though. That's good to drum up interest in your book I think. I did see, I think you're doing this later on. You're doing, ask me anything with folks on Reddit golf. Is that right?

Yeah, and I'll tell you Chris, this is just hot off the presses. This is breaking news on your podcast. I am also doing Doug Gottlieb's show this afternoon. Wow, wow. I got to you before Doug Gottlieb did. I'd say to say I've got the access then huh? Yeah, and I believe me. I'm not gonna give him anything You can drop a no-ling uptake on Doug Gottlieb's show then the dead will then repaid

question every answer is going to start with. Well, as I said, I'm no late enough to find that. Well, I had what I saw what I did see today, and I don't I'm trying to pull out it, I don't find it is some kind of comment you made regarding the Baba chapter in Christianity. And what was, can you describe what you made on the comment so far before before people have opened up to asking you questions about, I believe you said there was a chapter in the book on Christianity that didn't make it in the final cut, because I know in the book you, and I remember you said on the golf channel that, you know, but, but, but, but, but, lots and basically, Bragg's it being the best Christian on, on, on tour, maybe on the planet. And you find them to be a big hypocrite for that. And I, I didn't, I was curious, I, as the first

I'd seen anywhere where you had said that there was a chapter on Christianity that was taken out of the book Can you tell me a little bit about that? Yeah, well, you know, it was the same thing of like okay There's the Christianity is huge on the PGA tour There's there's a you know Bible studies. We always hear about every week and so my thing was you know I grew up Catholic, but I don't necessarily go to church or anything like that. I probably have like a spiritual side But it's not a huge part of my life And so I want to understand it, you know what I mean? And it's stupid as that sounds. It was so big, I wanted to have a deep understanding of this. And so I spoke with this guy Stephen

Bond who runs the college golf fellowship and is the chaplain that runs the weekly bible study meetings for, you know, something like 15 to 20 weeks out of the year. And so, you know, he's close to a lot of the players. He's a very charming guy. He's based in Alabama. He delivers the message of the Bible to these guys in a way that really resonates with them. And then I talked with Michael Thompson, who is one of the, a really big Christian and a nice guy

and has a great perspective on it. And so I wrote this chapter on Christianity on what it means to these guys, why it's useful in golf. And, you know, giving a very, like, short version of it, it's because every golfer, no matter what they choose, needs some kind of, they need to be outcome independent. And the ways they choose to do that are these things that give them, like, comfort, or I guess that make it less nervous and less horrible

and less panicky on the golf course, and Christianity is one way, and I think that's part of the reason it attracts so many people. Yeah, I went in depth on this, and I really hope it's published somewhere. I think I want to try to publish it somewhere soon. Yeah, I wanted to understand it. So now, because that chapter got cut from length, as a lot of chapters did, I get a lot of people saying, oh, you're just attacking you're just some like stupid liberal attacking bubble is christianity and what the point i try to make is that i really respect

a lot of these guys who are christians not that i you know not that i live their lifestyle or anything but i look at what they do and they they're sincere about it and and that's my criticism of bubble not that he's a christian that's that's fine the the criticism is he doesn't live by Christian ideals, despite the fact that he spouts them at every possible chance. Does he? I haven't seen that anywhere. I'm not sure I'd see that. You're welcome. We got to look closely. All right, well, if I hadn't given it a hard enough sell yet, I would say to anyone listening,

you really should check out Shane's book. It's available on Amazon. I'll share a link to the book within the post of this podcast. It's something you can't get somewhere else. That's what I found so interesting. I can honestly say, I learned more about every single player within the book than I knew going into it. It's stuff that I haven't read in other places and I don't think you're going to see that kind of reporting and that kind of background information. And plus,

it's just kind of fun to relive that season. I mean, it started off at a very slow start of the season and ended with, you know, all the fun we had with Rory in the latter half of the year and Horses, FedEx cup run. It's a great book to keep on the coffee table. And it's easy read, easy to plow through, 400 pages or so that it's easy to read when you have Malaysian men looking over your shoulder on airplanes. Which you mostly will. Yeah, most of you will have it. And just to recap, Chris, what have said he loved the book?

Yes. I would. But he would not have issued a disclaimer saying that he would have said he loved the book. He hadn't actually loved the book. That's how you know it's the truth. No, I'm all about shaking things up, doing things differently than the stuff that we traditionally see. There's plenty of things that happen throughout.

A lot of it's been released online through your control, obviously. I think the stuff that you did release gives people a great insight as to what the rest of the book is about and you've done that without releasing everything and it's a great read. I really, I mean it and I think a lot of the criticism is unfounded but I'm actually happy for you that it's happening because I think it's generating even more buzz and making even more people want to read it. Absolutely, thank you. Well, thank you and we're going to put the disclaimer on the cover of the jacket in the next edition. Would somebody review, yeah, they could put book quote reviews, and that's my review. I would have lied to Shane and said that it was good if it wasn't.

I really do appreciate it, I mean, I actually, you're, I don't want to flatter you here. I'm not trying to, I don't, I can't think of the idiom at the moment, fluff your feathers. I'm not trying to fluff your feathers in your press. But no, your opinion was one I was eager to get, because I love reading your stuff, and I think you represent the golf counterculture on Twitter, and I know it sounds ridiculous, but that's, I I mean that totally sincerely. Which if I did, if I didn't represent that, would you lie to me and tell me that I did?

If Chris, if I didn't believe that Chris saw what represent the golf car catcher, I like him enough that I would lie and say it. However, I wouldn't issue the disclaimer I'm issuing now. And I expect this to go in no way and go out and put him just saying. We are just, we're nauseated at this point.

People are turning this podcast off if they made it as well. Yeah, they hate us. That's what I want to do. I mentioned this. I isolate everyone over the course of this book. We are just we're nauseated at this point people are turning this podcast off if they made it Well sliding on for the book promotion the us open is of course this week You will be at Chambers Bay. You're on your way there at the moment, right? You are stuck in Seattle. I believe Yeah, and one of the things I said in my book slaying the tiger Available on Amazon.com We are in sufferable, this is great.

Yeah, I flew in yesterday, see I don't got to walk around the city, it's my first time out here. It's great, it's a beautiful little hillie city. So if I ask you, who the guys that you like this week are, are you just going gonna go in order and name the chapters of your book for the same guys that you wrote about? Yeah, no, I like Justin Rose. I like Jordan speed the book slaying the tiger I would say that the two guys I really love and this is gonna blow your mind This is this is a hot hot take I'm up here are Justin Rose and Jordan's speech dude I swear to God I'm on those two exact guys and one more and that's Billy Horshaw the two guys that I like the most are speed and rose that's that's amazing that you said that people are really turning this podcast off now yeah I mean like obviously like people

talk about like speed he's a great, he's game fits his course and Greller, you know, started his career at Chambers Bay, which, you got it, you got it, I mean, it's possible to overrate that. Like, if Speed comes out and plays horribly, the fact that his caddy knows the course doesn't mean anything, but, if he's playing well, you kind of think it's worth like three or four strokes, right, over the course of the weekend. And, yeah, Rose, I mean, we saw Rose have well he played in in a tough course at Marion when he won the US Open. He's in an amazing

form and it just seems like he's hungry in a way that maybe he hasn't been since he won the US Open. Yeah, I think those guys, I mean, I think they're great pick. I look at like, I feel like Kevin Kizner, Chris, he's just been so good lately that I feel like he's going to have a great tournament. And I love Jimmy Walker. Jimmy Walker is actually the guy that, if he doesn't finish top five this week, I'll be a little bit surprised because I think he's played great the majors the last two years, has him quite cracked it. I think this might be the one where he gets really close. Interesting. Now I think back when you're saying about Grelar and Speed, that kind of golf.com, I think, had a headline or something that said about Grelor and Speed, that kind of golf.com, I think,

had a headline or something that said, the main reason why Speed is going to compete at Chambers Bay, his caddy. And I was like, well, wait a second here. It might be the fact that he's the number two player in the world and just won the match. That may help him compete. But, and of course, where people don't really know, you do, and I did, all I've done, the only research I've done about Chambers Bay, I did flip through the flyovers

of all the holes today, but I mean, there does just seem to be this mystery about this course that is really, really unique. And, you know, I've already been joking about how much we can anticipate the players bitching this week, but I really do think it's gonna be a lot because these green complexes look like there are elephants buried underneath them.

And if, if the USGA is not careful with some of these pins i think billy horse was even said that he says he likes the course he's worried about how they're going to set up the greens i'm actually a little bit nervous after watching the watching the flyover what do you know about chambers based so far i know you're not haven't made out on site yet but what are you hearing and what do you think about how it's going to play this week yeah i always say you know i love reading Shane Bacon when he writes about golf courses. I think he's just got such a great insight.

So I poured over. My research was to pour over his take on Chamber Spade. So essentially I'm just parroting him now, but it's like the fairway is going to be super wide. That's one thing. And so, you know, obviously you hear that and you're like, okay, well, good for the, you know, good for the bombers. But these greens

are gigantic. And like you said, they're crazy, they're crazy, crazy humpbacked. And I don't think the quote was like, some greens are like four and one. So you can get on the green and get to a place where a two putt is virtually impossible. Or you have to make an amazing second putt to two putt. So I think like distance putting is going to be big. Obviously precision irons are going to be huge because you want to be on the correct part of the grain. And that's kind of why I like Walker a little bit because he's good at all those. He's the best putter in stroke gain. He is looking at my

stack. That's the idea. He's 11th in fairway approach proximity and he's along off the T. He's like 20th and driving distance. So yeah, I just think it's going to be tough, but I don't know, with a dry week, especially if it brings a little bit, I kind of wonder if we might not see someone who pulls the chimer like last year. Yeah. And someone who lacks scores really well in this course. Well, thank you for spoiling Bacon's take, because I think I'm going to have him on the podcast tomorrow. So no reason for any of that. I think what you're saying about the greens is going to kind of help neutralize putting, in a sense, that kind of the way last year did, I think it's going to be a ball striking

fiesta. The guys that are going to strike the ball and hit a lot of greens in regulation are going to be kind of the way Kymra did last year, and basically anything he missed on the green, he put it from off the green and put it to tap and range and made par. So I don't know why, the more I learn about Chambers Bay, the further I get away from Horsel, but I still keep having this image in my mind of Horsel just terrorizing this course with his irons. And because the driving areas are big, but you need precision in certain areas from what

I've seen. And there's going to be so many different looks off these T-boxes that you're going to need guys that I think can not only can hit their drivers really far, but hit their three woods in the tight spaces. And I feel like he's a guy that really does that well. And I mean, obviously I'm not out there following his play and watching the way he shapeshots. But I've watched him hit his three wood off the tee. And it's a lot bigger weapon than I think people realize. It's not quite the same length that, you

know, Henry Stenson is, but I don't know, I keep getting that image in my mind, but also I picked speed before the season started to win the US Open, so that's kind of the reason I'm sticking with him as well, but kind of, I think Adam Sarson made this point today. Not a lot of a whole lot of Rory talk going on right now. Yeah, and one thing real quick I want to bring up about speed is, so he won the Masters and we saw the hype machine go crazy for him. And then I think you and I and a couple people were like, well, like hold on, Rory McRoy is still the best player in the world.

And it's like, why are we ignoring Rory? But can you imagine if speed did when the US opened? Like how crazy that would be? Like he, all the sudden, like, you could legitimately say he's on Rory's level to some extent. Like he's like, oh, he's really close. Like that would change, that would change, like what we know about the young generation of golf. It would, it would start the rivalry, I think.

I mean, they would be, they would be the major title holders of all four titles, like the two of them, but under the age of 26, I mean, that would, all right. Yeah, you just got me way too excited for the US open at that of 26 I mean that would all right yeah you just got me way too excited for the US Open at that time. I mean that would be a huge perspective. It's possible to overplay stuff like this but I don't think you can overplay that. It's this speed wins this. It's like game on. I mean that would be that would be awesome. Yeah it's hard to do the what if game obviously on on the Monday week of the US Open but I mean it's it's already it's already been a dream season.

I mean, and if Capca could have won yesterday, we would have had, you know, Rory, Speed Walker, as Walker, I think, is one twice this year. Yeah, Rory, Speed Walker and Capca as two time winners on the, as the two time winners on tour this year. I mean, the last three weeks, we've had kind of no name winners, but before that, we were hitting the jackpot every single week. I feel like we, this is the course, this kind of course is going to, I've heard people say like it's anyone's game.

This is, if there's going to be a major where we get a random winner, it's going to be this one, but I don't, I can't picture that. I can't picture anyone outside of the top 20 favorites winning this event. Yeah, I'm the same as you. I don't, I don't think it's the kind of course where we're gonna see a no-name win And I hope it's not actually I mean if I can say that I mean good for them if they do it, but But Rory I you and I talked I think before the masters and we were both like why are people saying Rory's gonna win like look at the For him. This is not his tournament and I have to say this might sound stupid because he won two tournaments in America

like a month ago. However, I don't necessarily think you come off being fatigued and getting cut from two straight tournaments and looking terrible and play your best golf at the US Open. So I almost feel the same way as I did the Masters where I'm like, yeah, like for sure I could sneak a top 10, but I just don't see him winning this. Yeah, I mean, the thing with Rory, I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's, it doesn't even seem right to criticize him for this, is that he has his runs when he is clearly the best player on the planet. There's no doubt.

Yeah. And his, his, his, not his, you know, his C game, his D game or whatever, it's a pretty far drop off. Again, I hate the, the flinch instinct to compare everything to Tiger, but we want him to be Tiger and, you know, that's the one thing instinct to compare everything to Tiger, but we want him to be Tiger, and that's the one thing about Tiger, and his prime is when his game was really off, he was finishing 25th instead of missing the cut to back-to-back weeks. So, I mean, I don't even think that is necessarily a criticism of his, rather than it is just the truth.

And so, we don't know what we're going to see when he shows up. I mean, if he was hot coming into this, I would say we can pretty much pencil him into the top 10. I don't think we can pencil into the top 10 this week, but I'm not counting him out. He could turn it back on in a heartbeat, but it's just, there's still that element with worry that you don't know what you're gonna get, maybe even more in the way.

I feel like I can trust speeds results more than I can, Rory's, I don't expect speed to just completely hit the eject button anytime and he never really does. Whereas Roy can just go on these 77-78s and you know send people right into this back in this turmoil trying to figure out what's wrong with his game. Yeah, it's true. It's true. And I think he's a 1 cut speed since February and that was when he played with Rory over the first two days of the play of championship, which I don't know.

Sometimes you read into the psychological aspects and it's like, well, I don't know if that's true, but I kind of do feel there may have been something there because it seems like we look at it's the only tournament where he struggled the way he did any time in recent memory. And so, yeah, he's playing with day and rose, and I think that's pretty big too, that he's not going to have Rory in the same group on Thursday and Friday so yeah we'll see I mean like you said Rory I mean if he all of a sudden starts driving brilliantly I mean yeah he could he could do what he did at Congressional a

couple years ago so we'll see I'm so excited man I think this tournament's gonna be awesome and I just can't wait for it to start I can't either man being a golfing Europe has never been harder than it will be this week, because this is gonna be on a prime time on the East Coast, but it wraps it four and 4.30, the coverage on Saturday and for me, on Saturday and Sunday nights. Oh boy.

I have a full time job. Are you gonna stay up? Like, what are you gonna do? I think I have to, don't it's a major, right? I mean, I have to. But like... I would not do it Saturday if I were you. I would do it.

I would save everything up. Maybe do it Friday and then get your rest. Because then Sunday, you gotta see it Sunday, but you're gonna have to go to work, like two hours later, right? Yeah, I mean, I have to stay up Sunday. No doubt. Maybe I just naped between like noon and... Or midnight and two and then see the ending

I don't know I mean I do have to see it, but I don't I haven't really game planned around this yet, but Yeah, it's testing, it's testing me. And I don't know, I haven't developed a strategy for this yet, but normally I like it because watching golf in the evening, like I can live, I can have like a full day. Like I just yesterday, I was in Budapest until 5.30 p.m. Got on a flight, came home and the God, and then players weren't even on the back nine yet.

So I could still see the end of the end of the round of golf. You can still have a full day. But this is a game changer. Going to the West Coast in the summer where there's basically unlimited sunlight, it's gonna be, it's a game changer for me. I just wanna say I'm so jealous of your life because I feel like I look every weekend

you're traveling somewhere cool. You seem like you have cool friends. You just need to, just what a life you're living. Chris, over and you're like, yeah, I really though, I look at him like, damn, I would love to be doing what he's doing I don't know if I want to like work at KPMG like I'm sure you're way better at telling like I would destroy the company With a better week, but

But your social life seems awesome. Well, I'll say the truth at this time a year ago I'd been to three countries in my entire life the US Canada and Mexico Wow, and as of now, I've been to 20. So I've just, I got moved to Amsterdam in October and I've just been in a traveling maniac and trying to see as many places I can while I'm here. And it has been fun, it's been a lot of fun, but you know, at times, you know,

I still miss things about home, is seeing people, I got just missed one of our no-ling up guys' weddings two weekends ago. You know, it's just a thing, you can't, you don't think about the things that you do miss about home. And you know, I've got a stamp super late to watch the US Open.

So my life is really, it's a lot harder than it looks, man. So. Yeah. You're living the struggle, I get it. Yeah, I think the US Open, I like how you're like, you know, this is wedding I miss, but the US Open. That's really, I really can't say. Well, there's this wedding I miss, but the US soap. That's a really good thing. Well, that's the thing is I checked in with Todd.

It was the guy that got married and, uh, so, hey, man, how's the wedding? It's like, oh, man, how's great. What happened to Dustin Johnson? Did he get ejected? It's just... Right back in the golf, it's awesome. That's great. That's what it was. Yeah, the wife's good, everything's fine

she actually wants to know what happened to Justin Johnson what do you think a guy who is the guy this week that we're going to hear from the loudest or first as far as whining about the course? I have a guess yeah, she, who could that be? is there anybody out there who's obviously very temperamental and puts his foot in his mouth all the time and is known to be a

mental midget when the courses are tough? It's gonna be like when there's water on the club face or suggested throughout a hypothetical. It's gonna be Lewis Thusazin. I know exactly what you think. It's exactly what I think. Now it's either gonna be Bubba Repulter,ter right i mean like there's nobody else besides those two that uh that's gonna do it who knows i mean well yeah i bet i boy pubbera pubbera's got to have the best odds on that one well who's gonna bitch about the drones first because fox has been you know talking about how they're gonna be using drones out in the course

i know i i i i i see the things that pg and two are players complain about there's no possible way this is going to go over well with them. Like not a single possible way, right? Yeah, I just want to say like an overzealous Fox producer, like, he's drawn like really close to a player. I see that as a backslame. I'm taking off after the ball. Yeah, no, that can't go well.

But I'm sure they know, I don't know. The Fox coverage in general is going to be very interesting, I think. I'm sure they know, I don't know, the Fox coverage in general is going to be very interesting, I think. I'm telling you, it probably won't be, like, there's going to be some hiccups, right? Because this is the first huge go, but I don't know, hopefully, hopefully it's great, but I didn't hear about the drones. That's fascinating. Well, you know, here's what I say about Fox.

As long as they're showing a lot of shots and telling the story all right, I can live with, you know, the the commentators not being fully having great chemistry and I can live with Joe Buck. What things I hate about CBS is like, I feel like they get too caught up in trying to tell this great story. Whoever's winning, like how, you know, telling his story in this great drama unfolding, whereas if you just let

golf happen, it's pretty dramatic and pretty awesome in itself. And I feel like other like other channels ESPN did a great job when they held the US open of just zooming from guy to guy shot to shot and letting that the action be the action rather than it being this big drama production and so go and NBC I don't think is quite as bad as CBS said it but I don't know I'm fine with Fox taking over I think it's gonna be a new angle it's gonna be a fresh look it's gonna you'm fine with Fox taking over. I think it's going to be a new angle. It's going to be a fresh look. It's going to be, right, it's going to be imperfect. I think we should be prepared for it to be imperfect, but I mean at the end of the day, the professionals, they should know how to, they know how to call a sporting event.

They got a lot of people on there. Yeah. Shane Bacon's going to carry that broadcast. Let's be honest. Oh, he's going to be on TV. I forgot about that. Yeah, I think that's the plan. Last night spoke to him. That was the plan. I guess that'll, that's all more reason to tune in to the next, the next episode of the NLU podcast, because we're hoping to have Shane on tomorrow.

Yeah, so this is the perfect time to pitch him the Shane and Shane video. I've been waiting for it. It's some kind of influence. Finally. We should get off three of us on one at some point. The Shane and Shane show. The Shane and Shane show with Chris Salman.

That's a tall. I'm like one of those drops out right away, such as you and one Shane. It just rolls right off the tongue. The Shane and Shane show with Chris Salman. Yeah, the Shane and Shane show with Chris Salman and Kyle Porter. It becomes a media. But no, no, you're right, man. CBS, like we'll go to any length, won't they, too, to have a trickly kind of story.

Dustin Johnson, when he was young, he had the flu for a week, and maybe they cut away to him. I didn't know when I'd come back, that was a week. That your Jim Nance Hush tone is really good. It's really good. Oh, I got it.

Hey, look, it's imperfect. Jim Fox, this coverage. Jim, you're in the booth. No one can hear you do not need to whisper I don't think we're gonna have that problem with Joe Buck All right, so your final pick you're going either speed the rows if you got to pick one of them. Who's your pick? Let's say it's gonna be a rematch and Rose is gonna get in this time. All right. Okay. I'm going to speed this my official pick I like Rose and I think or if I'm going outside the 50 to one guys. I like Horshull So that's pretty much it man

Kissner is the guy you named. I like that too. Yeah, I'm just with Kissner because I think it could be one of those weird stories where like he's never won a tournament, but it's going to be the US Open. It's going to be in 1920s and then. I just got a cup of coffee. I've never heard of Scoops Callahan. Do you know who that is?

Oh, yes, I love him. So funny. For those that don't know, I think it's a Dallas radio guy that gets some access to these sporting events. He goes into this 1920s reporter voice when he asks people questions. He's done it with Phil Mickelson before too, and it's so good. And he addresses all the players like, champ, champ. What was it like out there?

You seem like your office was doing the Charleston and you were doing the jitterbug and everyone just gets so confused And he does this he does it to fill and feel just like why are you yelling at me you're a foot from me Thanks Scoops. Scoops. I feel like one of the best reactions. My favorite reaction of all was Eli Manning because he just answered the question like it was any reporter talking to him. Same with Mac Brown.

You realize that anybody who's doing anything different. Yeah, same with Mac Brown. And then one time, there's one of Peyton Manning. He sees him and like as he's about to get caught on, he's like, no, no, no, not this guy. Not this guy. You're not getting me a good. I'll put the link in the podcast post. So anyone left listening to this will know what we're talking about.

But. Champ, champ, champ. That's any podcast we do from here on out, both whenever I come on yours or you come on mine, you need to introduce me with. Champ, champ. Champ, champ. Who's going to be us open this week? All right.

Well, let's wrap it up there. For those of you that weren't fully convinced, you should check out Shane's book, Slang the Tiger, a year inside the ropes on the new PGA Tour. Follow Shane on Twitter at Shane Ryan here. You can also find them at tobaccoroadbluez.com. You can read this stuff on Golf Digest, Grantland, Paste, and I think that's it. Is that it? Is that your whole biography?

I don't know anymore. Watch the Golf Channel think that's it. Is that it? Is that your whole biography? I don't know anymore. Watch the golf channel clips that you have and you can go to backerobloose.com. I just embedded all four of them. The first three are my interview and then like Chris said the money, the money one is the fourth one which is the panel discussion afterward featuring Damon Hack and Paige McKenzie. So yeah, that's about it. You got it. All right. Well, hey, enjoy the US Open. Get back to me on what they can do about those tea times

moved up, and otherwise we will catch up sometime this summer. Awesome, because yeah, it's always a blast with you, man. What a little personality, I want to show him around. I appreciate that, I enjoy it as well. And I did forget one thing. Shane is also host his podcast, The Friends of Tiger, which is my favorite golf podcast out there so you guys should check that out and I think that covers the ass kissing for this entire podcast. You know what my favorite

podcast is Chris? No don't say it. Friends of Tiger. Alright man until next time thanks a lot Shane. See you guys. Bye. Until next time, thanks a lot, Shane. See you guys. Bye. Give it a big thumbs up. Be the right club, today. That's better than most. How about him?

That is better than most. Better than most. Better than most. Better than most.