No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 206: Jordan Spieth

Episode Date: April 3, 2019

Ahead of next week’s Masters, we sat down with Jordan Spieth to talk about what’s gone wrong in his golf game, how he’s addressed it, and where it stands heading into the year’s first major.... The post NLU Podcast, Episode 206: Jordan Spieth appeared first on No Laying Up. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to give it a try. Be the right club today. That's better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most. in person. Yeah, the last one. Yeah, tell the story of the last one. Well, the last one, I was at Tiger's event in the Bahamas, which no offense, but the view was better than what I'm looking at right now. Correct. But I think this will get probably better audio, but it was, that was a little more difficult, but that was back in the day when I was recording it, like,

from my iPhone to my iPad. And I was like, what am I, what are we doing here? Now we've at least got a nice microphone. So I turned a full studio out of this office. Well, finish telling the story. You were just telling me so I had to turn the mic. Yeah. No, I was just saying my brother-in-law is just such a massive no-ling up fan. So I was telling him that we're dropping you off at your car and you're coming over.

We're going to do this podcast. I was trying to explain to Annie and he was like, yeah, she'll never understand. He's like, I'm such a massive fan. So you've gotten a lot of questions lately. I feel like you're getting a lot of press attention and I think, and I kind of wanted to talk, kick it off with that.

You are very open and honest with the press. You answer questions very, very thoroughly and complete. Do you think that ever works against you? When times when you're not playing your best golf, do you ever get frustrated with how much media requests you get? Yeah, and I've actually gotten less or certainly less requests lately, which I guess is good and bad because typically you get the more, the better you're playing the more requests you're getting from the media. But at the same time, it's like kind of nice because I can kind of almost fly under the radar go about my own business, work my way back where I want to be.

But you know, even when you're playing well, once you get to a certain level, it's like everyone's rooting for you, everyone's rooting for you, and then you get to a certain level and it's like people want to see something go wrong. It's just like human nature. It's like people want to see the warriors lose, like unless you're a warrior's fan. Really? You felt that? No, no, no, no, it's just, I don't feel that way. Okay.

I'm saying the kind of, I guess, nitpicking or the questions, even when something isn't really off that can be a little bit much and almost dissect a little too much. It almost make you think that things are worse than they are. It's not like anybody's, I don't feel that way. I'm not comparing myself to the Golden State Warriors. What I'm saying is when you get to a certain media exposure, you know, your microphones on you all the time, so you can get in trouble easier for saying something you

When you play poorly every shots shown instead of when you know somebody else just didn't play well And it's like you just whatever and so you get questioned about it and it's and you know I'm used to that over or you know a number of years But it's been about a year since I've really been playing the golf that I'm accustomed to playing. You can start to maybe let your patience worth in a little bit. I think it's kind of the best way to put it until you start to sit back and fly under the radar.

Literally just get back to the basics and start to work back up and recognize the longevity of a career and make kind of the last year. So be the worst year that you can have and make sure that you're back and better and more consistent in the future. Because I think you can go two ways. There's a immediate overreaction in the media ourselves included. We're not excluding ourselves from this. A a couple bad weeks can be caused for concern. And it's kind of, it almost seems premature, whereas a longer run of not good play is almost, I guess I'm leading into the question,

do you think kind of the attention that's been around your play recently or the questions you've been receiving? Is it fair? Is it justified? Are they the same questions you're asking yourself? It's a bit different. Certainly fair, but again,

you run into comparisons to when you're at your best. That's what I mean by this when you kind of get into a certain level in the spotlight, then the expectations comparisons start to be to you at your best and it's like that's not realistic. Unfortunately, in our sport, we had somebody that did that. Right. And everyone in the post-hugger world

has got to deal if you have success. And Rory's dealing with it right now too. Sure, of course. I mean, Roy McRoy had a Hall of Fame career by the time he was 26 and yet, he's still talked about is not winning enough. And I mean, without Tiger, you're like talking about, hey, what can this guy still do in the history of the game,

which is exactly how the rest of us players look at, Roy McAroy. But, and I'm not saying the comparisons to Tiger, I'm just saying what he was able to do is almost, you know, it's not really human. It numbed us to what a gay, really solid career is. Right. Right. I mean, you want three majors?

That's cool. Like I work with 14. Yeah. Well, where's Phil Nicholson without Tigerwood, right? That's the ultimate, like how many more wins does he have, but how is he viewed historically, which his view is, I mean, he's looked at, I think, so much, I hate to say the word more positive, I hate to use more positively, but more exciting people are happier and rooting for him more now

than they were probably at the Tiger Phillip where you were split, right? Not even split, right? I mean, there was just, there was Tiger and there was everybody else, but Phil was right there. You just have to be very selfish in your views. You gotta reset goals, you gotta figure out. So to answer your original question there,

it's for me, it was physical. It started with kind of the putter blade, how it was viewing things. In my alignment got off because my eyes were not seeing where the putter blade was actually pointed and therefore I couldn't trust it. And then it bled into kind of my full swing and I just got off and set up that then I try and fix the wrong things and I get down the spiral that kind of, I could go a more inconsistent golf. So I could, you know, I've recently

I've been shooting five under and then I shoot four over. It's like, well, I haven't shot this many rounds more than one over par in my career, maybe in my going back to when I was 15 or 16 years old and why is that? And it's trying to figure out. In other words, I just had the time, I had the time, the club better over the past year. So then I've ever had to do. I play with very little rotation through the game.

I mean, driver to putter, I play with very little rotation. It's just the way I grew up playing. And so what got off that made me feel like I was stuck and had to kind of jerk the face at impact. And you just can't do it, like I'll have one day where I do it well, but then the next day I'm not. And I'm like, and it's frustrating because I'm, I probably put more hours in in the last two years than I did,

I would say the last year than, then even when I was playing at my best. And that's good and bad. I mean, like maybe you find something that clicks, but at the same time, you can nail in the wrong things too if you're not working on the right thing. So it's a funny game, man. It really is.

It's the greatest game. I mean, I feel that way right now. I felt I feel that way the day after winning a major. I mean, it's just it's the greatest game because It can be so Trying physically and mentally and you got to kind of figure out one and the other and one can boost the other one can and it's just finding that equilibrium and I'd imagine it's very circular in that you can't fake confidence and like good play is gonna breed confidence

And you can't you can't just like build up your confidence without the good play. It's kind of sure. It's yeah. Yeah. I mean Cameron, he'll he'll say, you know, he'll say, hey, man, it looks good. You know, go out, go out confidently. Go into that pot cocky. Like I want you telling me after you hit a good shot and I'm like, that look good.

I want you saying, yeah, I know it look good. You know, you just and I'm like, I would say that, but the feeling to me is that it's still not where it needs to be. There's still something slightly off. And we finally got on top of it recently. We finally figured it out. And now it's just a matter of repetitions. And I started putting extremely well.

I've put it better this year. And even at the players, I think I led the field, and it feels, the putting feels back to where putting and chipping where it needs to be, and it's just kind of now getting into that full swing, and it's all, it's funny how similar it's all related. Like some, for me, I've never had to work on something

mechanical in my putting, and had, it it be the same problem in the full swing at the eye alignment you're talking about yeah it's more of that started to cause me to get behind and in other words kind of body get out early and with putter the the hands get out and and ahead early and therefore the club in turn becomes open and behind you. And it's not a fun way to play the game. Right. You play scared pretty much the whole time. Well, you placed, yeah. And yeah, exactly. Because at any time there's any kind of trouble right, like my putts would miss right, even though I'm trying to hit them left, there's just nothing until you start to kind of just retrain exactly what it is. And I would say it was half-camera and half-me, just through trial and error to get it back. And it feels good. Like I'm excited.

I mean, for a while there, it's like when things are off, it takes over. You're like, you're sleeping. Like you're just, you're like, when you can't figure it out, it's just, I mean, when would you say it started? You're like when you can't figure it out. It's just I mean when would you say it started? You know, it was in 2000 late 2017. I started not really Put the ball really great in that kind of off season fall and then in 18 I just had a really rough start to the season putting and it started to get better towards the end of the year I started to figure out a little bit and then kind of the ball ball stracking got a little bit off in the middle of the season. So I normally have, it's weird.

So I normally have one of three swing fields. I have my, what I call my early 2017 field or 2017, I played with a very similar swing field the entire year. I needed to work on the same thing the whole year, and I couldn't do it too much and but it was all it was the best I was the best I'd ever hit the golf ball You were second on Strucks game T-Degrees. Yeah, it was the best. Yeah, it was the best I ever hit it My scoring average was lower than 2015 and in 2017 I was technically a better player in 2017 than 15 Although everyone's on results, and so that's that's what you look at but

if though everyone's on results. And so that's that's what you look at. But if certain guys, or I time my better rounds at different places, my results are technically better there, the ideas to have the lowest scoring average you can possibly have. You want to win this scoring title and results come from that. I have my swing field. I had at Tigers event in 2014. I played really well. The Masters in 14, a lot of 2014, I played from a swing field. And then I have my one that I had in 2015. So I have these like three swing fields. And what are the swing fields, sorry.

One of them is like, okay, I've gotten really turned inside and almost pointed too far to the right at the top. So I feel this kind of like sat back, flat off backswing and from there it just feels nice pocketed That was my where I played 2014 a lot from 2015 I'd kind of overdone that a little so I try and work this you know rolled open face early Get a nice real depth in my backswing and then I need to kind of feel like I'm coming over the top of it from there 2017 I played from this real drag my left arm as low across my body as I can.

Get that left arm nice and flat and hinge that wrist angle to try and get it back over my head a little bit. My tendency from when I was 12 years old was to take the club out and up and lay it off a little bit and then drop it from the inside and hit these big slinging draws. And when I started working with Cameron, it was to try and make that more consistent,

closer to one plane, just get it back and through similarly. But my tendency is always to take it and not quite complete the backswing. And therefore, when I don't complete the backswing, the lower body starts a little too quick and my miss is a little spinny right ball, which if you have one miss and it's just short right, you literally get away with that almost everywhere,

except for 12-odd Augusta, which I didn't one year because that was my miss. I didn't wanna say, and that's just, that I was hitting the ball poorly that week and every other hole you run into, you're fine. And that's it, and I've played you run into, you're fine. And that's it. And I've played golf that way for a long time. Well, that started to bug me that that was my miss.

Well, how do I compensate? How do I make sure that that miss isn't there? And it would only really come up under pressure because I would get a little too quick and I wouldn't have the patience to complete my back swing. Well, now none of those swing fields worked and I was trying all three of them different times through the end of through the middle to end of last season and none of them were really feeling

good through and I wasn't getting consistent ball flights and so I just had to try and think like where exactly is it getting off and I start using video more than I ever have to try and dissect it. And the problem is I'm not a very good instructor. Like I could be a good caddy, I'd be a really bad swing coach. You can't miss yourself. Because I'm looking at it from one viewpoint behind, I'm not looking at it from a face-on view

to see that I'm actually almost like stack until, like stacked and I'm moving forward. And that's what's causing it to look a certain way from behind. Instead, I'm trying to make it look at him Scott from behind. And and just like I'm like, but when I make it look at him Scott from behind, I'm even more stuck, which makes sense if you're stacked and you try and tip it even more. So it's been this kind of, you know, this, this retraining over the last, I would say month,

you know, January was rough hitting the ball. And then from then, it's been a little better each time. And with the putting coming around too, and now really figuring out a nice, I mean, you saw on the range today, I was working with Cameron, we're just hitting, you know, same ball flight, same ball flight plays many of those draws

as you can draw, draw, draw, draw. And that didn't look like a guy searching for it right now. That was like a tune up is what it looked like. Right. It was, let's go through the bag. I'll let the cameras like just, let's, it was dialing distances. It wasn't working on my swing, which is really nice, but it requires a lot of effort right now.

So I told Cameron, you know, the best I've ever hit it under pressure was Pebble Beach in 2017. I play, I had a three shot lead going into Sunday, and I hit all 18 greens regulate, I hit 17 greens in regulation. And the one I missed, I landed by the hole and took one hop over on 13. But 17 greens in regulation under pressure of having a three shot lead in a PJ tour event is really good given my tendencies in the past

I'd won golf tournaments by making putts or Hitting really good chips or wedges and it wasn't really ball striking that You know, I left it in the right spots. I'd take advantage when I wanted to but that wasn't the reason Well, that was the reason that day and so I'm like why? Why was that the best what What was what was different there? And it was and that week, I was hitting 10 to 15 yard draws every shot. I could work a fade if I needed to, but I just I was dialing in. And what that did was anytime I needed to take, you know, 10 yards off of a wedge, you know, a pebble beach, you got to hit those, you

know, 52 degrees from 100 yards sometimes and just punch them into those back pins. And the transition move was so different from what I was doing, say, three or four months ago. It was the exact opposite. It was a more compact, like a triangle shape coming down, where the club was always in front of me.

It was closed. It was square early. Kind of Steve. It was square early kind of Steve's trickrish kind of Steve's trickrish but more of like a more of like a early closed face to where I like to play from hold. I like holding my left thrice through my grip is a little bit weaker. So if I can get that club set early and it's in front of me, it's already there. Well, that's the opposite of it being behind me and open and I don't have to rotate the face. There's one person who's played unbelievable golf, having a lot of club face rotation

and that's Tiger through his career, which I think makes it even more difficult yet he still did it at the level he did it, which is insane mentally under pressure to be able to control more, especially putting, he has probably twice the amount of rotation on a putter blade than I do, putting really any distance and to be able to control that

at under the highest amount of pressure on some of the greens, you know, Augusta greens or whatever is even more insane than what he's already looked at. You know, it's, but anyway, it's, it's just been this, this process of kind of reversing the body, the body movement, the, I mean, I'm loading better now and it's just, it's more free flowing and, but it requires a significant amount of effort, right? The second, so repetition will just make that start to start to be normal. Well, it sounds like what you're talking about there. You were, you had a lot of repetition,

but you were just kind of pounding in the wrong fundamental of the way. Exactly. So weighing in. Exactly. And now you're trying to overcome like new muscle memory in that regard with repetition. Do you, it sounds like to me also, you feel way more comfortable standing over the ball this month in March than you did in January? Is that accurate?

Yeah, I mean, I, yes. Yeah, I could go into negativities, but that doesn't do me any good at this point. It's, I feel great. I feel very positive. Whether results come soon, whether they come later, it's like, I am doing the right things that will bring me back.

And the clubs in front of me, the puddings back, it's just to, to me, I look at it as a matter of time and playing the golf course the right way. Instead of when you don't feel great, you try and force it, force stuff. And just giving myself as many opportunities, green and red kind of status is what I'm looking at now. A quick break here with some exciting news

from our friends at Calaway. Now listen, in my opinion, I think Callaway leads the league in golf ball technologies that give golfers more of what they want to help shoot lower scores. And if you listen to the last episode, I'm all in on these Chrome soft truvices that I've been playing. The ball is long, feels fantastic. Greenside spin is perfect. And for whatever reason, my eye just loves looking at the soccer ball pattern. But now I'm tempted because I'm stoked to hear that Callaway just announced they're putting

their innovative triple track technology on the ChromeSoft X. If you're not familiar with it, triple track uses three parallel lines on the cover to help you aim your putts accurately. Phil Mickelson asked Callaway to put triple track on his ChromeSoft X earlier this year. He immediately shot 60 in the desert than won a couple weeks later at Pebble Beach. So now, you, me, all of us can be like Phil. We can play a ChromeSoft X with Triple Track. I guarantee I will because if Triple Track is helping Phil put better, I'm guessing it'll help golfers like me and golfers like you put better.

Find out more about Triple Track and ChromeSoft X at CallowayGolf.com and order online or pick up a dozen at your golf shop starting April 19th. Let's get back to our interview with Jordan Speeth. At that time, I think it was in January. You talked about being comfortable, being uncomfortable over the ball or something along those lines. I want to pick your brain on that. What does that mean?

What do you still feel that way? Have you gotten over that or is that something you're still dealing with? Yeah, you know, being comfortable over the ball for me is, hey, when I stand over it with a six iron, does that club look to me like it's, when I get set up, is my set up proper. I think it's I think it's the the number one thing and I've been asked this multiple times what's the number one thing that tiger woods is done over the course of his career that's different from other players that allows for that success other than just the the mental side other than you know the big puts the being able to hit it longer and what I what I say is, I've never seen him get over a shot

where he looked uncomfortable. Like his fundamentals have been so sound for 40 years. I mean, so sound that, I mean, that's honestly the biggest reason we get off is just the smallest thing, whether it's I'm lined up too far left and I'm looking too far right or I'm the opposite or ball position got moved a little bit back because I was playing on wet ground in the wind last week. It's these little things that then you get into swing problems, but it's always because

of those that basic setup and his has just been rock solid for 40 years. And from there, it makes it easier to stay consistent and to make his swing changes. Whatever he needs to do, it just makes it easier for him. I think historically, and I've pounded this drum for many years, that your ball striking has just been historically underrated. And people think that you've even mentioned it there. You said you won events with putters. But I think the way you hit the ball is kind of underrated. People almost seem most concerned about your putting right now,

but you don't sound really concerned about the putting it all. And the stats don't show that you're having a poor putting season the season at all. No, and it's, no, and unmeasured rounds for me are the North Corsetory Pines this year, the first two rounds at Pebble were there on other courses that aren't measured at Pebble Beach. And I was plus, you know, five at Tori, I was plus three at these others. So it's unmeasured rounds.

So if you take them all into consideration, and I try, I did a lot of looking, like I'd go on the PJ tour app after my rounds last year and I would look at all the strokes gained and It's not a good thing to do mid tournament. It's like You're beating yourself up over it. It either beating yourself up or you're like It's just you know, there it's just another thing of comparison versus Why don't I just get out there and my next shot just hit a just hit a perfect shot and then my next shot after that just hit a perfect shot It's like it's comparison to statistics. It's like that stuff you do at later Like it's stuff. I don't even do like just let Cameron do that. Yeah, and he'll ask me he won't say hey

This was really good last week. We don't need to work on this or this was poor last week. We need to work on this it's This shot on six on the second round From 75 yards would happen there and I might and because I maybe missed the green and it threw off my approach or my wedge numbers from and I'll be like yeah, look I mean it was a it was a tough shot the wind kind of gust it up I hit it the way I wanted to and it just landed a short and spun off the green into a tough spot It was a wind gust. You know whatever And so we do a good job of not just using that, but actually analyzing into those stats to be like, okay, well then there's a stroke

that I didn't actually lose based on anything I could control. It was out of your control, which a lot isn't golf. But this year I feel, especially kind of players on, I mean, each week's been better with the putter. And I really found something that freed me up massively inside 10 feet at the players. And it's just going to be a continuation of that. And should be in good shape. I feel like games rounding and form right in time. This is the start of my season. Well, well, so we have a long running joke on the podcast that like whoever as soon as you come on, you play really well right after it. So I can totally see exactly what you're up to by doing this now. But I annually, I pick

you to win the Masters every year. I've just said, I'm blindly going to pick you to win the Masters for the next 20 years. Should I be at all concerned with my people who have given me, they say, Hey, do you want to opt out of your pick? We'll give you a pass. And I said, no, I'm sticking with it. Should I, are you confident in my, in my pick for you to win the master? I, I feel great about that golf course every time I play it. I love it. I, I find something new and different angle, a different break that I learn more.

And stuff just kind of sticks to me better around there because there's more to think about. And because I, I think so much about the course on every shot, I think about, you know, you're off this extremely uneven lie. This is the best miss. And you just get out of your own way. I do. It's got it becomes less swing technical. It becomes so feel based. And you just kind of, you're just working clubface and tempo. And, you know, obviously just working clubface and tempo and you know, obviously on the t-balls, you know, you got to, you got to be put in the right spot, but it's not an extremely challenging golf course off the tee.

You need a few 11. It's nice if you put the ball in the fairway, but, and you know, the par five is you want to hit some good drives, but overall, it's not the most demanding off the tee. You can get away with a subpar performance there as long as the, as long as the approach shots and are on and around the greens are nice. But as I was going to say, do you light up when you see those greens? For some reason, I feel like that you're just so dangerous when you put those greens more so than any other place in the world. Yeah, they just require so much touch.

And I feel like that's just a strength I have. I work hard on it. It's not something that just came to me. I believe I've had good hands, good touch, but we have good drills and a really good plan that goes into that week every year. Has this year's preparation for the tournament been any different? Are you going about things the same way

you always have last several years? Yeah, I think it's the same way. And the only thing I can really control is the amount of balls I'm hitting, planning my schedule, of last several years? Yeah, I think it's the same way. And the only thing I can really control is the amount of balls I'm hitting, planning my schedule, and then what I'm doing in the gym to get strength but then maintain energy.

So I'm doing a very similar schedule to what I've done in previous years. I normally play, I like, you know, second, third week in a row is normally where I play better golf, sometimes a fourth in a row, and I'm I'm starting on a four-week stretch here. I plan on playing Hilton Head after Augusta 2.

These are courses or tournaments that you know match play allows me to play with more freedom I'm what I'm working on which is great when I'm in this kind of last phase of trial and air you know Things are starting to feel really good You can have a lot more commitment in match play because if it goes poorly, it's like, hey, I lost the whole, whatever. It's a lot of uneven lies. A similar Augusta out here. Yeah, and, you know, they make these, they oversee here and next week and the grass type is pretty similar to Augusta too.

You clearly have to work in the wind a little bit better, and the greens putt different. But being in Texas, I like that there's Bermuda's out here and the windy conditions. You know, match play, you never know. I mean, it's just, you can play, I can play great this week. It can be disguised as two losses in a win, and you're going home.

And it's like two guys just play great. But for me, that won't bother me at all this week. I'm literally focused on myself in progress. And I think that's the way to go about it to be best prepared for for the Masters for sure. You have obviously the one green jacket in the three close calls. What do you think more about the one that you won or the ones that have gotten away? It's more like the most recent year I think about. in the way. It's more like the most recent year, I think, about 2018 was so weird. I don't know how I was weird one.

I was a weird one. I was a weird one. Yeah, it was a weird one because I was in control at the beginning, and then I just had two poor middle rounds, and then I came in just with freedom on Sunday. I was like, nine back. It's like, hey, well, I've never played a Sunday at Augusta where I can just be as free as possible with no, you know, if I finished 40th, you know, whatever, but I can shoot 6, 7, 8, under around this place.

I've done it before. And then the Sunday pins are so exciting because you actually can do that. I mean, you just get in control of the ball. It's the easiest day to do that, I think. And just started out so well. And by, you know, what was it? I birdied 12.

And when I birdied 12, I think I was at like six on the day. And I thought to myself, you know, I've got a chance here because Patrick's going for his first, Rory's going for the slam. There's just a little extra going on behind us. And I have all people know what can happen. And the start of that back nine is tough. And you could have somebody go a couple over on those holes. And so it was just just play the course of way. It's supposed to be played coming in. I want to hear more about, I guess we got to hear a decent amount of it. The conversation you and Greller had on your shot on 13. You're in the pine straw.

Yeah. And like you wanted to hit hybrid. I wanted hit four iron. You wanted to hit four iron. He wanted to hit four iron. Yeah, I wanted to hit four iron. I thought it was the right number for that club. I wanted to, I don't, I don't hit it.

It didn't play for a draw. It just looked like a fade to me. Playing a draw there, you're now hit it. It didn't play for a draw. It just looked like a fade to me. Playing a draw there, you're now drawing it away from the hole, you gotta start it over the water. It's off pine straw. You don't know if it's gonna spin or come out a little jumpy so that a mouth of that curve changes massively

on like a four iron or a hybrid. And when I wanted to play fade, he really thought it was hybrid. He's like, look, if you hit it long, you can get that up and down all day. You just can't be short. So I like, look, if you hit it long, you can get that up and down all day You just you just can't be short So I listened to him there and I hit the hybrid and I thought it was long and actually pitched pretty far short of the whole and Ran up there ran up and stayed short of the pin

But when it let you know when I hit it it was was right on the right line And I'm thinking to myself. It's got to be the right club Playing a cut with that hybrid, but it cut up there and, man, I just wish I put a better put on it. It's like the only one that day I'm like, man, I just, I know that that, I just looks like it doesn't break, but I've seen too many people start this in the center and miss it to the right. I'm just going to put this out left and it just, it just didn't move. But where was your T-shot on 18 gonna go if it didn't hit that brain?

So I nect it. I hit it way off the heel, playing fade. So it wasn't a hook. It just, I got out in front of it and hit it so far off the heel, you know, it just twist the face. It was gonna be, I think, short of the left bunker over in the left rough. Totally in play and gonna be the one person. It would have been, it would have taken an impressive shot

to get it on the correct tier from there to have a put out. There's no chance I could have been inside at 20 feet, but it was likely a much easier par than, but I ended up having four feet for par. But I, it was, I wasn't in great control the driver that day. I had awesome control everything else. And I'd played like draw, draw, draw, draw.

And then that one you got to hit a fade. And I'm like, I'm seeing the right shot. But I'm also like, hey, all you got to do is give yourself a chance here. I'm at nine under. And if I get it on the green right now, the thing's going in. And I think I just kind of didn't quite zero in enough.

I had the right thought process, but I'm like, it was a little protective to squeaking out, fading to the right, being a little late, just knowing my tendencies. And so I just kind of over corrected a little bit and got out in front on the heel and took a branch down with it. But played the whole well from there. I mean, I had hit one Thursday or Friday or Saturday that was going at the... There's a bathroom to the left of 18. That's way... I hit one over by there

and made double earlier in the week on the whole. So it wasn't going that far left. I know what really far left is there and that one was just hanging up the left side. What if anything, what would you say the main things you learned from 2016 are? Uh, you know, I think the what I learned the most was how much input people put on a certain whole versus the entirety of 72 holes or how one-sided whether it's the public or the media's view is on something without actually diving into the details of why or what happened. It's like, I didn't choke. I legitimately was missing every shot short-right. And it wasn't like the moment was too big for me. I just won the year before.

And however many other tournaments, I had already won earlier that season. It wasn't like I got here and the moment got the best of me. It was like, no, I just legitimately had this thing wrong in my swing. I hit it right on 11, had to punch out, hit it right on 10, had to punch out. Like when the pressure was on that day, I was hitting the ball horribly. And so yeah, I didn't over protect to hit it left. I Made the same mistake of hitting it right which you can't do but it wasn't because of it was Sunday at Augusta. It's like no, it was just like I just was I was just hitting it that bad and

unfortunately That's just not the way it can be or would be looked at No matter, you know what I say who I say to it, which is okay. Like it is what it is. I don't look at myself as not able to close because I've done that plenty of times before and after. So it's like, that's what makes it weird. It's backwards. It's like you wanted the year before and then the disaster happens the next day.

Yeah. If it was the other way, it had been the greatest master story ever. Well, and if you look at, so 2017, I made a nine on number 15, but it wasn't Sunday. So nobody really even talks about that, but that was as bad or worse, because that was a wedge in my hand in the fairway that I'd hit like two of them where I shouldn't have. Well, I want you to kind of say. And I was in the second and the last group Sunday there. And I think that was maybe Friday. And so without that hole in 2017, I'm in the lead starting the final round, which is actually a better starting position

on Sunday than I was in 16. So it actually would have looked technically on Sundays full round would have looked worse. So it's just like, it's funny how the viewpoint's changed based on it, but like, and some guys, you know, they get under pressure and they play worse and it's because of the pressure. But like, and that's actually everybody to start out

until you learn how to cope with it. And you learn your tendencies and you learn. And so for me, it wasn't that at all. It really wasn't. I remember the way I felt. It was, I just simply ran into a few holes where you just can't miss it right in a row after nine holes in a row where you can and

And it just it just got the best of me. Yeah, I mean your lead was similar in 15 as it was 16 Right, your your comfort level just seemed so much different. You just weren't it wasn't totally there I think Cameron flew in the night before is that right? Yeah before Sunday because you just weren't quite fully there from a technical standpoint Yeah, I mean when you're leading the masters going to Sunday and you fly your coach in, alarm bells. Yeah, I mean, and it's not like I created those in my head, right? Because I, especially given the year before, it's I got, I mean, if it were anywhere close to solid,

I'm sitting there going, okay, well, this is just Sunday jitters at the Masters that I've had every year, you know, even in 2014, you know, it's the same deal. It's like, no, I mean, like, I really need you to come in because the ball is going right and I need to figure out why. And it was just, it was too late, but, you know, it was, it was a really good effort afterwards, you know, it's like It was a really good effort afterwards. It's like to have a chance there towards the end was awesome. I mean, it was really cool. It was the coolest moment other than walking up 18 knowing I was going to win the second

coolest moment I've had at Augusta. It wasn't last year during the 8 under. It wasn't during the final round. It wasn't even any during the eight under, it wasn't during the final round, it wasn't even any other moment in 2015. It was legitimately in 2016 when I walked after birding 15 from 15 to 16 T, and everyone just started to rise. And I just felt like the world was rooting for me to come back.

And I felt like I could do it even despite what had happened earlier in the round. And I mean, it was just, I mean, it gives me goose bumps when I could do it even, you know, despite what had happened earlier in the round. And I mean, it was just, I mean, it gives me goose bumps when I think about it. It was like, one of the coolest moments I'll ever have engulf. I mean, whenever you do decide to write the book about your master's history, like that's gonna be a best seller.

I mean, you, just, you're 25 or 26. 25. You're 25 and you've had like a career where the experience is there. It's nuts. On that Sunday as well, I remember it was dialed up even more. How much you were going back and forth, Krell, or how much you guys are conversing.

You seem to, and I watch you with Cameron today, just kind of, you seem to be always soliciting feedback. And on TV, that could kind of, some people can take that as your complaining or some kind of, I don't know how to describe it exactly, but how do you kind of, some people can take that as your complaining or some kind of, I don't know how to describe it exactly, but how do you kind of view the way you approach your game? You're always talking through shots, you're always looking for back and forth. What is that kind of dynamic like between you and Michael and you and Cameron?

Yeah, ideally less is better. When you're more dialed, you're speaking less. Yeah, and especially whether I'm more dialer, I feel more dialed. I mean, all I need to do is just feel dialed. And what I mean by that is I feel in control of my swing, you're still gonna strike the ball poorly certain days because of timing or whatever. But like today, on the range,

it's like I'm interested in what, and how much the wind was actually affecting it, or most importantly, where exactly I was lined up, because I need that to match. If I'm, that's been my biggest issues, I'm looking in the wrong place and I'm lined up in a different place and then from there, I'm trying to figure out

where I'm actually, I'm all of a sudden, my path and face are different to the actual target versus where I'm lined up. It just inconsistent, right? So, you know, in the 2016 masters, one thing I took out of that was I played slow and it was frustrating anything that I watched. It was frustrating for me. Now, I was like I mentioned really struggling with my swing so much so that it would be similar to somebody being in like 35th place,

putting really well. But I happen to be leading Augusta, which then required, like if I'm in 35th place at Augusta, I'm not gonna take as much time. But when you're leading Annie feel that poorly about the way you're striking it, it was a unique position to be in. You'd bandated it together to that point.

Yeah, it's a unique, because I'm like, oh crap, I'm somehow here, with how I feel with the way I'm striking the ball But they didn't make they didn't give me confidence in my striking instead. It's like Now my you know your blood pressure is higher your heart's pounding harder and you're still trying to figure out well sure but but you know and But it was still it was frustrating to walk and so I so I've really tried to speed up play the last few years.

That was something that kind of annoyed me about that was, and it wasn't what anyone else says, it was more like, when I play reactive golf, I play better, whether I'm hitting the ball poorly or not, selfishly, it's better for me to play faster. And I think everybody would like that anyways, you know, faster plays better, but I don't even remember the original question. I just started going off.

I'm sorry. I don't remember either, just kind of, but just how much you talk on the course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Most players. Yeah, so the more I'm talking, the more kind of, I want to say uncomfortable I am about the situation. Like I haven't had Michael read a putt for me in maybe six, seven months. Like he's maybe stepped in on one or two putts that are kind of tricky six footers that could go either way.

But for a while, I had him like looking over and talking to me and talking through like three footers because again, it goes back to this vision thing. I'm like, that putter blade looks dead shut to me on from three feet. It looks like I'm going to miss the whole left. And then I hit it. I miss the whole right. And I'm like, what the heck is going on here? And so I'm like trying to get him to be like, Hey, you're good. You're good. Just stroke it where you're looking, you know, whatever. It was actually this whole catty alignment thing would have been really useful to actually did it last year on my putting, but less is more. I am ideally doing less. I've also had a microphone on every single round for, and I feel like I talk more than

others, but not significantly, not as much as it may be portrayed. And I don't think it's a bad thing. I just know. It's, um, well, Tron is going to make me ask is is is Greller and Alpha? He, you guys ever talk about this? You know, he's it's funny. His, his personality as a caddy couldn't be further from how he is as a player. Okay. He's the guy that'll throw a club. He's the guy that'll start walking before he even hits it whether it's going in or it's missing He goes through these he goes through these emotional Confident swings like nobody I've ever seen when he plays golf he'll

He'll get to where and his stroke Cameron calls it the second or stroke. He's ever seen in his life He actually he closes the blade going back and opens it as he comes through and in his life, he actually, he closes the blade going back and opens it as he comes through. And and he's so scrappy in the way he plays, but then he'll, he'll get in these streaks where he'll make a couple like six, seven footers. And then the guy will make, will walk in 30 footers, but then he'll bite four holes later. He's missed one from three feet. And he can't hit the hole from the deep, You know, it's like, so we'll play a fraction when I'm by myself and I'll have these, like at the players I played nine holes,

one of the evenings by myself. And so I get, I give Michael a putt from three to six feet every hole, even money for 50 bucks, every hole. And I put it somewhere and I'm giving them all different ones or whatever and he'll miss the first six in a row and then he'll make the last three including you know this last time he was he missed the first five all ahead of do was give him an uphill right to left and he didn't have a chance but left to right he could

make you know because he kind of pulls it more than kind of pull cut. And uh, he didn't have a chance on the, um, but I might have been what messed up your putting me. Yeah, I do. Man. And uh, so we get to number eight and I'm like, all right, I'll give you three to one. And I give him about a 15 footer up. He'll left to right, right in the middle. And he wanted it for a hundred. So now he's up. I said, you know, right in the middle. And he wanted it for 100. So now he's up. I said, you know, I do it again, same spot, three to one,

same thing, does it again. Third time, does it again? I'm like, I'm leaving the screen. I mean, I just, I mean, I'm getting smoked. Like I just, I was, we had, you know, I was playing my own ball, playing a game against him with par as, you know, as even par, or half a stroke under par.

If I go any more, I make money if not. He does. And he just, he just went and just pretty much through that game out the window and just absolutely smoked me there. And that's just how he is. But as a caddy, he's unbelievably even keeled. And he actually has been since rookie year, which is amazing to me because that was such a different position for him. Like, for me, it was, yeah, very different. Using exemptions, trying to get saddest on the PGA tour, it was different. But I had played in PGA tour events before. I'd been playing in, you know, big tournaments my whole life.

It was a step up. But for him, it was like, man, I caddy in the summer times, I caddyed for Justin in a couple of US amateurs, me and a- in a US open in a US junior. But how even keeled he is and how chill he is, is not alpha like in a good way, he's- his personality is absolutely perfect for a player on the golf course. It's just funny because I know inside after playing with him, I'm like, man, if you were in my position, you would be like, I think I'm overreacting. And I feel like you'd be another level on either side, the good or the bad.

You'd be the cockiest. And then the most upset ever, it's just funny how he's able to kind of change who he is out there. And it's, I mean, in the big moments, I feel as much confidence as him as I would anybody else. All right. A couple more. I'll let you get out of here. I'm taking up more. I smell dinner starting to be cooked here in the house, but we've got to talk about the writer cup. The first question I have is regarding kind of some of the drama that happened on the back half of an afterwards, could you sense that building up while you're there or during that week that you did that there was

going to be some drama unfolding? No, I don't think so. It was, I felt like everybody went into it. It felt a lot like the presence cup in 17. It felt pretty light. It felt as light as any writer cup. It felt that I had been a part of. You know, I think people were trying to figure out, people were trying to figure out the pairings. There was a, you know, some new guys. There were

some, you know, I don't think Brooks and DJ were going to go, which, you know, you left two guys playing at the top of the world. who do you pair them with? Pretty similar styles of game. And then Tiger obviously being in there and him being in the pod with or fire squad, whatever we call it, with me and Justin and Patrick. It was, how is this going to mix a match? Who's going to play with who, what format? So I think there was a little bit of a hesitation on parings, but other than that, I mean off the course,

it was fantastic. And I felt like everyone had trusted, with so many guys in form, really, everybody except myself was playing well, going into it. I mean, I think by DJ standards, he had finished maybe 20th one week. So that's pretty low for him. But so now I guess before you and Patrick hugged it out at farmers, had you guys spoken it all before that? And is it totally by guns, be by guns with everything that happened?

Yeah. We hadn't. I'd seen him at Sony, I think for the first time. And I was just like, hey man, how you doing? Happy New Year. And he said the same back and that was about as far as it went. And then I knew we were going to get paired at some point. And I knew the tour was trying not to pair us just for the, and then of course, we get paired on like a Saturday or whatever it was and get control of that. So we had, I had ideas on what to do. It was, I think my, one of my ideas was to give

him a hug and that's someone Michael voted for. He's like, this is the one you got to do. I can't remember my other ones. It was maybe like, I was going to fake the handshake and pull it back and just try and blow it up even more. But I think that was, it was kind of, yeah. I mean, nothing's been different since. Nothing was really different that week. It's like, and even when we do play together, we're both still trying to beat each other up. So it's like.

I remember you saying that last time you're on is when you guys are playing a match against others, you guys are trying to beat each other. We're trying to get the credit for the match. We're trying to play better than the other, even in alternate shot. We'll literally say things to each other, like, thanks for putting me behind that tree. Like, why don't you hit a fairway? Something like that.

It's a totally different scenario than what you'd probably expect out of a pot. But you know, for me, it was, I'd grown up with Justin. And we'd always dreamt of playing a match together. So when, when I got asked, it was, man, it'd be really cool for at least one of the matches. If, if I was able to play with Justin, just because we've always wanted to do it. Like, look, the Ryder Cup is the Ryder Cup. It's, everybody looks at it as, you know, a mate, we, we, we've always wanted to do it. Like, look, the Ryder Cup is the Ryder Cup. It's everybody looks at it as, you know, a major, we approach it like a major championship, if not more so, even put it on a higher pedestal.

But at the same time, I don't wanna, you know, I wouldn't wanna not play with Justin for 20 years of playing in the Ryder Cup and be like, man, I mean, these are, I don't want to call it exhibition, but like, these are like, these should be really fun too, even with the intensity that we go into them with, like, how cool would it be to play with one of your best friends that you grew up since you were 14, 13 traveling the world with. And all of a sudden, we both, you know, are able to do what we love to do, get on to

or become major champions. How awesome would that be for us to be able to team it up for our country and the biggest event that Goth offers in the Ryder Cup? It's just like man it be whether it happens this year or not, I'd love to play with them. And that they came out with those pairings and that's what we went with. And me and Justin played great. I mean, it was, it was a blast. I mean, we had so much fun. And then, you know, the drama that happened after

is just, you know, I think Jim did a, Jim, I think Jim did an awesome job. I think Jim did a great job as a captain. I think he was a, he was a players captain. and he has to be the one to sit on the sword and it's like it's not him. Like we just didn't play well. It's that simple. It wasn't because of his job. It was like, look, if you had a if you if you if you if this were a 72-hole event, there would have been, you know, a couple Americans in the top 12th and the other 12 spots would have been, you know, a couple Americans in the top 12, and the other

12 spots would have been the Europeans. They just played better that week. The course was set up so well for them. They did a great job of that. They found where, you know, our issues were in our games and where their advantages were, and they took advantage. And we did the same thing a couple of years before. Yeah.

It's just, you've got to be able to overcome that compensate for that and hit the right shots and make the putts. And they just did that more than we did. It's that simple, like they just outplayed us. Yeah, I think the drama definitely unfolded because of the poor play. It wasn't necessarily the other way around. Sure, yeah, I mean on Sunday.

I mean, I lost my singles match and I played really poor. I played way worse than I did with Justin. And there's no question that having a partner where in the same way when I played with Patrick, I mean by Sunday, it's like a let down plan of singles match because you just get this, you're so fired up to play with a partner. We never get to do it.

You're feeding off each other, you're high five. Like Patrick broke my hand in 2016 when he hold out that wedge on number six. I mean, I mean, I mean, he like, I mean, he was, he was just, it's so much fun playing with a partner that I have a hard time, I've had a hard time on the singles days of stepping up with the, with the same kind of intensity. It's something I need to work on for our teams going forward. Should I be so fortunate to, to, to make as many as I can, It's, you know, I feel like I let the team down there

and in being going out pretty early and having a chance to put right on the board there in 2014 that really could have made an impact. So that hurt at the end of that, but personally, but I knew I wasn't playing while going in. I wasn't in form. I was working my hardest to be as good as I could be, and really just had an awesome time

that week no matter what. And there's nowhere to hide on that golf course if you're not striking a very well. That was a pretty much the wildest setup I'd seen. That's 17th hole, that fairway looked like it had been moved in. I'm sure that people will say that it wasn't moved in, but that was the smallest fairway for a 485-yard hole I've ever seen.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, with the rough-grown India. Yeah, that's quite a challenge. All right, we're gonna let you get out of here, man. Let's eat some dinner. Thanks for taking the time. Finally getting this happen. Best of luck this week at Matchplay and that tournament over in Georgia in the couple weeks.

Yeah, thank you. Appreciate it, looking forward to it. Cheers. It's gonna be the right club. Be the a right club. Be the right club today. That is better than most. How about him? That is better than most.

Better than most. Expect anything different? I Expect anything different