No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 209: Kevin Van Valkenburg on Tiger Woods and the 2019 Masters

Episode Date: April 17, 2019

One episode on the 2019 Masters was not enough. Kevin Van Valkenburg from ESPN joins to share his perspectives on one of the most historic weekends of golf in the history of the game. We talk about what it meant for him as a parent to see Tiger win in front of his kids, all he's been through to this point, and a ton more from his incredible comeback story. And of course, Gary Player makes an appearance. Thanks a ton to Kevin for the time as always.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yeah. That's better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most. about that kind of take or anything, but Kevin Van Volkenberg from ESP. Here are a deck of hitters. Here he comes. Oh my God, that's Kevin Van Volkenberg's music. Oh, so, okay, so we did a recap on Sunday afternoon after Tiger Woods won the Masters,

which still doesn't sound right to say. But I don't think we could do it justice in the moment. I thought if there's ever a Instance and golf that called for a follow-up podcast that can't try to bring this to terms It was this one and you were the only guy I could think of for the job Kevin welcome to show boom. Thank you Damon Yeah, I'm still a little bit Shocked myself

Did that really happen? It's funny, I was thinking about all the times I've been on this podcast and Tiger didn't win a major and we spent half the time talking about Tiger. And now we can talk about Tiger. It's like there's no one who could be like, oh, God, could you guys just move past Tiger, please? Well, not only that, all of those times that we talked about him are now validated

in that we were talking about it, holding out this hope, this crazy hope that even looking back at it, I think was dumb to hold out the hope for, even after winning. And like it was the hope that this would happen. And it did. And I took the entire day off Monday yesterday,

didn't look at anything other than trying to figure out why our Apple podcast feed isn't working. I'm not allowed to use to that for anybody that's dealing with that. But I just couldn't, I had to get away from it. It was just like, I feel like we peaked. I feel like that was, it's all downhill from here. Yeah. I mean, I don't know.

In some ways, it's like bigger than words. I remember Rick Riley talking about when Jack Nicholas won the Masters in 86 that all the writers afterwards were in the old Augusta press room and one of the guys was sitting there like mumbling to himself like it's too big. I don't know what to do. I don't know what to do. It's too big. I'm sure like if I had been there, what have sort of had similar thoughts of like, how do you even begin to like put it all into context? It's just the words are never gonna like really match what you saw with your own eyes and stuff. So I, you know, I, I, I'm happy to admit that I was one of the doubters, one of the people who... The haters and losers of which I... The haters and losers.

And I think it's funny, like people, you know, the old freezing cold takes stuff has one of my tweets back then where I was, you know, like, man, like I think this is over. And saw all these people like come at me, you know, yesterday a few times, like, what's up now, you loser? I'm like, yeah, okay

Like I'm happy to admit that I was done and you know what if Tiger pinned one of those things on his fridge and With like Dickless did in 86 and they said he was done then I'll take some of that credit to Been a part of the motivation like I enjoy you think for one second that I didn't enjoy the hell out of that yesterday That even though it like that I was more interested in being right than I was, you know, in seeing Tiger Win again. Like, what kind of a just you could take is that. I, I struggle on that one because I think like I agree. I agree. I didn't think I think this would happen. I don't think I ever said he's done. I don't want anyone to go back and listen to all the podcasts because there's probably a chance

where I'd written him off at some point, but I at least, I don't know. I did not think this was possible and the people that called him done, I see where you had enough evidence there to really think that. And the one thing I kept coming back to was whenever Phil was asked about it.

And it's beyond a token. Throughout all of this, you have to give Jack Nicholas credit. He was like, I still think he can win. I still think he can win. I still think he can get my record. And we kind of laughed at it. Like when Tigers on the operating table, like for the second time in six months, like, you know, we still think he could beat you, Jack. Well, it turns out, yeah, he can because I think what really scared people away, scared me away the most, was not even the injuries, it was phoenix, and it was the chipping,

and it was like, okay, all of this crazy embarrassing stuff that's happened to you, now you suck at golf in front of our eyes. And that was the thing that was like, dude, the magic is gone, like the game is gone, it is just totally washed over him. It turns out that was still more injury related than we even realized at the time. I mean, I don't know. And again, I think it was even you

that made the connection on the podcast about the potential of, you know, the painkillers that he was on. Or I don't, we don't really know what he was on, but how that has to affect your nerves and your chipping ability and all these sensitivities that come with the game of golf. And now looking back at him, and it's this transformation is not something that we could have predicted in any way. So I don't fault you for calling him done, but I mean, you could not have predicted this.

No one predicted this. Even the believer of all believers could have said, like, yeah, he's going to come back and truly win the Masters. You know who else thought he was done was tiger thought he was done when he said at the champions dinner right done I'm done with competitive golf. I will say my friend Michael Rosenberg who writes pro-sostrated I remember talking to him years ago and saying you know nobody's ever come back from chips nobody's ever come back from you know this kind of search or whatever and Rosenberg was kind of like, yeah, but like nobody ever did what Tiger did before.

Like you're putting a weird standard on a guy who already sort of exceeded every excitation. Nobody ever won the US Open by 15 strokes. So I'm not really quite ready to say, like just because no one's ever had, you come back from the chipping yips and been great at chipping again, that Tiger's not gonna do it. And I was thinking about that yesterday. It was like, that was a pretty good point.

Like I got lost in the sauce a little bit there. Well, it's also like the narrative, and I know you tweeted something about this too, of how I've been, how I've been, how I've been never come from behind to win a major. And like they were hammering that home else. I was kinda like, well, you know what, like none of this other stuff has ever really,

like if used his back together, he was done for all intents and purposes. Like this him being there is more miraculous than him coming from behind to win a major. So let's not like try to even, try to pretend that these trends matter anymore. Nothing matters anymore for him to be in that scenario. And like I don't know how to revisit the likelihood of that happening yesterday. When I was looking

up, his stats are like, I was looking at data golf, which I like to follow as a day goes along, like the chances of somebody winning. Forgetting about all the chances of him getting to that scenario, he teed off on Sunday with a 17% chance to win. And through six holes, it was 11%. And through 10 holes, with eight holes to play, it was 14%. And it's like, it still wasn't likely that this would happen. And it still did. Does it feel any different than it did Sunday night after letting it simmer for a couple days? I think so. I mean, it just, you know, I'm sure like every Tiger fan kind of dreamed that this would happen. And they would have to the masters.

I never thought like, you know, I think we were sort of in unison and thinking that he might win a British or he could win a PGA, but that that course just hasn't suited him for a long time, or there would always be somebody there who would shoot like a great round. And it's just, it's too easy for someone to do what Cantlet did and have, you put seven birdies together and all of a sudden looks like they're gonna shoot 65.

And for him to be able to kind of like not only overcome the people in front of him, but the people in behind him, I just never thought that that was gonna happen. And yet, here we are. Like I hope that we will be able to keep it in perspective in the sense of like, you know, what always used to bug me at the height of his sort of greatness is that like when Sport Tilture was like the king of the world in golf coverage, they would every year like write a thing like contarg one the Grand Slam this year. And it's like, you know, yet there's a reason that like

nobody ever won it in a calendar year. And he's the only person who ever did it for an row. You know the the grand slam that Bobby Jones one is completely different kind of thing. But like I just you know he's not going to win all four majors this year. He might contend in an all he held. He could win. Whoa. I'm going to draw the line right there because I'm ready to predict that he's going to win all four majors.

I think is that is that being one of the haters in the doubters? Let me stop you right there from falling all over yourself again, KBV. But yeah, it does feel, it just feels, you know, it's surreal. I'm so glad that it happened at Augusta because of the synergy like with his dad and then the beginning and it's just, you know, if he never wins another major again,

that moment was worth all of the sort of misery and stuff that we went through. I'll never say that it was worth it what he went through, but like just being someone who appreciated what he did for the game, that moment was enough for me. I don't need to see him break because his record to feel like he's the greatest of all time. Like that was enough. He came back from that. I'm good. He's won it now. I'm not sure if I'm even believed this hyperbole that I'm about to say, but like I just want to jam home the point again of how unlikely it was that this happened.

I would almost be less surprised if he won the next three majors than I am that he won this one. You know? It just didn't seem like it was too fairy tale to like, oh yeah, the masters is the one he's gonna come back and win 14 years later. I mean, I was 19 years old when this, 18 years old when this happened at the first time,

like, or the last time, I don't know. It, and you wrote something about this and I'm only kind of getting some of these details or you had some stuff on Twitter. Well, actually, or the last time, I don't know. And you wrote some about this, and I'm only kind of getting some of these details, you had some stuff on Twitter. Well, actually, let's back up. I want to, first thing, you were not at the masters this year. I mean, you talked about what you were going to write and struggling to figure that out. What do you think you would have written if you had to on on Sunday night? Oh, gosh. I think I would have just tried to write some kind of scene. I think I could have, I think I would have written like just 800 words about fathers and

sons and daughters and that moment behind 18 green and that's what I ended up writing just a little bit on Twitter about. I mean that, the cyclical nature of that and how it made me feel I I think, was really channeling how a lot of people felt. You don't have to be someone who loves Tiger to have been moved by that moment. You don't have to, you can be annoyed with some of his personal foibles and still feel something, because as I sort of said a little like, Tiger's always kind of been a vessel for a lot of our feelings. Like, he says his life, and I think sometimes this has been too big for him to handle, but his life says a lot about race relations and ambition and talent and the monster of fame and, you know, how we kind of like to see people fall when they're at their heights. And then we like to see them redeemed or rebuilt.

And I always just think like great stuff from majors is just, it's something you use zero in with the microscope. You give something a really small, like everyone just saw Tiger one of the masters. I don't need detail recounting like about the injury or whatever. I just want to read, you know, some moment about him and his family right there because of what that means and how it made me feel. I want to know kind of what as you're watching him come off that green, I guess let me set it up with how I kind of I felt and watching the true emotion.

And I'm talking about the part bypassing when he's hugging his kids. I still wanna talk more about that, but it was hard for me to watch him walk down that walkway, two-fiss in the air, smiling, cheering, and hearing the raucous applause. And not like Marvel at the, I, like, the irony's not the word,

but just the spectacle of like, this guy that by most accounts for most of his life that has not been a good guy, he has not been like a great person to root for, and the fact that people are so willing to forgive this, myself included to be caught up in this moment, to be so happy for him in that moment. I feel like a lot of people that root for Tiger are rooting pretty

selfishly. They wanted for their own sports watching fandom. Again, myself included. But that was maybe the first time I ever watched Tiger win and felt like, man, like, I am happy for that individual. Did you feel any of the same thing? Absolutely. I mean, I was very much someone who did not root for him early in his career. Like, I was more of a fill guy. I just, you know, I felt like he was just so cold to people and so, so hard to kind of wrap my arms around that I just felt like I was rooting for a machine, you know, the same as quote about, well, Chamberlain saying, nobody, nobody roots for Goliath. And that's to me what Tiger was. But in a lot of ways, we came to sort of be thinking

of Tiger as the breath of Harle whole lives. You were 1911, the US Open, the last one. And I was 1911, the first one. And I was 19, when he won, the first one. And so that whole period of time covers a huge part of our lives. Like, different cities we move to, different people we fell in love with, different heart breaks we had, different jobs we had.

And Tiger was kind of there as a constant through all that. And so in a lot of ways, when you're seeing the arc of his life, you can't help but think about the arc of your own life. And so that's where like the emotional connection comes. And then on top of that, like, I do think Tiger is a lot more appreciative of the love that he has from people now. Like in the beginning, it was always, I'm doing this for myself, I'm doing this to kick ass and be a destroyer of worlds. But as he sort of came around this time, I really feel like he grew to love the kind of feelings

that people wanted him so badly to come back because of the joy that he had given them. And so to see a person kind of come full circling to appreciate how much people missed him and how much he meant to their sports watching lives is a really neat kind of thing. Before we continue on with KVV, I've got some exciting news from Calloway, their Chrome soft ex triple track golf ball, the golf ball you see, Phil Mikkelson playing with you see that those blue and red lines rolling on the green instantly recognizable. They're coming to stores. They're going to be in stores starting April 19th.

The triple track is already on the ERC soft golf ball. If you're a fan of distance golf balls, that's a golf ball you're going to want to check out. But Phil plays the Chrome Soft X with the triple track as soon as he saw the triple track, he asked Calaway to put it on the Chrome Soft. People have loved it so they are now putting this ball available for sale. We just got a bunch of them. I've tried it out.

It's really cool. So you probably can't tell just from looking at the ball, but if you look straight down on it, it looks as if the lines wrap all the way around it. And it really just feels like a, it's kind of hard to describe. Like there's a thick line that makes me have a little more confidence standing over putts. It makes me feel like I don't have as much pressure on myself to hit it truly end over and or hit it straight.

So it's helped my putting, it's helped Neil's putting. I know he's a fan of this golf ball. So go to cowwaygolf.com starting this Friday, they are available for purchase. Let's get back to KBV. So and again, on that note, you talked a bit about how it felt as a father to watch him win. I wanted to start with what I felt with him walking away. Some of his flaws as a character, I want to do that first and separate out.

By any account I've ever heard, I would guess that you've ever heard, there has never been a bad word said about Tiger as a father. He raves about his kids and I've talked to some players like hey, that have played with them like what do you talk about? He's like man, I kind of tough to talk to but once you mention his kids he perks up and talks about his kids. And I've always had that image in my mind like all right, this guy is a flawed guy for all these reasons but watching him with his kids has always kind of given me a weird about a joy. So that moment when he comes off the green

with that excitement and his son comes running under the ropes and hugs him, the son has never seen him win a major. Kids have never seen him win a major. That moment hit me. That was like the moment of the entire week that hit me the most. It's like, holy shit, this is an incredible moment. The outstretched, like the thing that hit me the most of like, holy shit, this is an incredible moment.

The outstretched, like, the thing that hit me the most is like, I think so much of his, when he, his emotions, when you see like him making a really emotional expression, it was always like an excitement of like, I just made this great putt, like, I just did this thing. I'm fizz pumping, I'm, you know, that's a sort of a combination of excitement and rage and that emotion as he's coming off the green there that's on his face is just pure excitement and joy. It's just so I'm so happy that you were here for this and you're the only, you know, two people who really matter, We're here for this and you're the only you know two people who really matter

You know Sam and Charlie and that to me. I just lost it like I was my daughter was sort of sitting on my lap and She was like dad. Why are you crying? I was like It's just a long it's a lot for me to contextualize in this moment Molly that gets hard for me to say why but this is really like, you know, I just, you see yourself in his shoes, like even though I'll never be anything like Tiger Woods for better or for worse. But in that moment, you can't help but think about your own sort of, uh, your own kids and your own joys and your own sort of wish that they would be able to feel proud of you and celebrate you at your

your best moments. And so that's why I think just all around. I mean, people joke all the time, but oh, dads and golf boy, aren't you, you know, nerdy dads who, okay, yep, I guilty. You will boy, you got me there. I'm really, you know, if you were too much of a cynic that you were an asshole about that moment, like, I don't know if really any business folk, we hanging with you because that moment just to me was one of the most genuine that I've ever seen in sports period. And that's what I said it at the time and I was worried about the hyperbole, but didn't really get, I only got corrected by a couple of people. I was like, that's the coolest thing I've ever seen in sports.

Man, I mean, that's like the one guy that transcends golf into other areas of the game did it. And that was the only looking back, it's the only way that could have happened. And I don't know, I don't feel bad saying it, that that was the coolest thing I've ever seen. We're all kind of here in the Kileshows looking at each other like, is this real? Is this actually happening? Because it didn't, again, it's easy to look back at now that it happened, but you know, six holes to go. This was far from a locked happen. I mean, there's a couple of things I wanted to ask about too. Well, you had a comment on your Twitter.

I was admittedly way behind on Twitter, but you referred to Moanari as Ritef Goosin. And I felt the same way watching him cut. Those plots were going in the center of the hole. Were you, how surprised were you to see him hit that ball in the water on 12? Just stunned. I just couldn't believe, I mean I still can't believe that all those guys hit the hole, you know, that that Capca did it, you know, Polter was the one who sort of started it, Fino did it. I mean, I just feel like it was, I don't know, you know, what exactly snapped in Loner's brain at that point, but if

he hits it over those bunkers like where Tiger did and just plays it totally safe, there's a very real chance that he ruined this whole fairy tale. Like he's holding the one stroke lead at that moment. Like there's maybe a chance that Tiger just is not able to catch him and he doesn't buckle. And that the goofs and thing was sort of reference to like, you know, Phil probably should have won the US Open at Chinacoch way back when it was there. And he, because he basically outplayed Goosehan who just couldn't hit like a green. And, and he think he one-potted bacon rewatched it. I think once in a cell, he one-potted like 11 greens or something, nuts and theose open. Like, you know, the fact that you can, that's sometimes how it happens. You win a major when you don't, when you aren't the kind of guy who plays the best on the

final day, you just happen to kind of do one thing super well. And that's, they're the sort of synergy between, or the, I guess, the mirror image between 86 and this with Jack is that a lot had to really happen for Nicholas to also win that major and a lot of guys had to sort of buckle on the moment and screw up in the sense of like Sevy had to hit it in the water from the middle of the fairway on on 13 on 15 and you know Tom Kite had to hit it in the water and Greg Norman had to flare a four iron like like 40 yards right of 18 green. And so you could see all that kind of happening. Like, you know, I don't know that,

like Tiger made them do that, but maybe the moment just sort of made them sort of feel like it was too big, too big to handle. I just, Mulnari was the last guy I would have thought. He basically had already stood up to Tiger and this kind of moment and still did it. So I'm sure he'd like to have that one back. I don't know whether it was that shows you why that hole is so devilish, so great.

They've expanded everywhere else on the course. It's got longer. Golden Bell stayed essentially 150 yards for 50, 60 years. And it still terrifies them because short right is dead and long left is tough. And I still don't know why more guys don't choose long left or like just dump it in those backbongers if you're that nervous. But I guess they just they think like, I can make this shot and I can step up and it's just short right goes right into the drink.

Well, a couple things on that. I think three of maybe the biggest narratives in golf are about how the wins swirls on number 12 On how the masters doesn't start until the back nine on Sunday and how much of an effect Tiger has on his playing partners And that all swirled together into one moment I was like no wait because you just hear this so much that it's like, do I really even believe that Tiger has an effect on playing partners and that this shot is that hard. And we got burned on that three years ago. Like, you know, with speed coming up to 12, I just didn't think that he would hit that in the water.

And literally, while Mo and Ari's ball was airborne, it looked good to me while I was in the air. And I was like, oh, gosh, I said it out loud. I was like, he was never gonna miss that shot. And it hits the back, it goes in the water. And everyone in the room just starts looking at me. I was like, I mean, maybe he missed it, sure. But I want to share a DM, I got it. I won't share the guy's name because usually DMs,

they prefer not, but somebody that was there, he said DJ is on the 13th hole. And he is about seven feet from the ropes on 13. I guess he had hit it right. And he's waiting for Cantlay up on the green. And a huge gust came from 13. So 13T was playing basically downwind. And a huge gust came as Frankie and Tiger are on 11 and Brooks is teeing off on 12 and DJ said it out loud loud enough for the gallery to hear He said Jesus. I'm glad I'm through 12 So like at that part of the property or a little further away from those trees and kind of where 12 green sets back

He could feel that wind and I think he kind of wondered like whoa I wonder if those guys can feel it from 12t Oh, that was a really interesting little nugget that yeah, because both Mollonari and Capca, they both looked pretty mystified when that ball came up into the water. I think it's, I saw someone sort of tweeting saying like, well, you sure don't want to hit first on 12. And I thought, oh, yeah, that makes sense because you know that you have a better understanding of the wind. But what you realize when you're there is that like, what the hardest part about it is the gusts kind of like it's almost like a canyon down there in the corner and the trees hide enough of it to where Gus kind of just come ripping around the corner there and so you just don't really know like there's no consistency to him if any like PGA tour player can handle like a steady wind that's blowing from one direction. But it's like when

you're when you're getting like wind, no wind, no wind, no wind, no wind, then that's what's so hard because there's some luck to it. And you know, I would Tiger have, you know, if he had stepped up first and hit it and then had gotten a gust, maybe it blows his ball right towards the pin, you know, or maybe it blows it in the creek who knows, but that's why like I think we look for like fate in sports sometimes and it's and it's almost always bullshit, but it's sort of fun to think about like in that moment like, yeah, you know what, someone's up there thinking like, let's throw Tiger a ball here, see if he can, let's blow Monar's bottle of all these balls in the water and see, we're going to give it to Tiger, but we'll see if he can bring it home after this You're receiving, let's blow monarchs bottle of all these balls in the water and see,

and we're gonna give it to Tagger, but we'll see if he can bring it home after this moment. That's why I think we're just living in a simulation. That's what it felt like for that to actually come true. I wanna share a tweet that you had also written and then I wanna ask a follow up to it. Your tweet said, prodigy, phenom, superstar, legend,

Icarus, scandal, punching bag, cautionary tale, charity case, relatable, medical miracle, doubt, promise, skepticism, stunner, joy. All those awesome. It's like that's like the arc, right there. But what were some of your favorite moments from the Tiger era from 2008 to 2019 before you won the Masters?

Oh man. I mean, I'm partial to the double ACL surgery as Dog had to have, Taz, I think I can 2015 I think. Which if you guys haven't done it, go back and listen to the trap draw episode. I know I said this in the last one, but the trap draw from last I think August, episode 17, where we just did the story arc of all the things Tigers done off the course since 2008, and it was a blast.

Post is post scandal. I think honestly, like, I don't think he's ever been more mortal as a golfer than that day he was at congressional and our buddy, Porath was there and they had him hit three balls on that towards the part three and he hits three in the water and the fact that like the guy, the whatever made it, I forget who it was, you know, some promotional guy is like, oh no, Tiger, take one more chance.

And like rolls another ball to him. And what's Tiger gonna do at that point? But like, no, man, I got my back's killing. Like I'm not gonna, but then he hits another wedge like in the water and just the eerie, uncomfortable silence of like, oh my God, like what happened here to this guy? This guy used to be able to just throw darts at things. That to me is like such a human moment. I think, you know, no matter how good or how bad you are

on a golf course, you've stood there over the ball and just been terrified at one point of like, I can't do this. Like, I don't, you know, and you nobody was ever better at wiping those thoughts out than him. And so, like, just seeing that, oh, God, that was so uncomfortable. And to think that that guy came back and won the match just blows my mind. That's that. God. I still can't believe it. I still can't believe it. All right. I got some questions. First, Mr. Player. I just want to congratulate you on hitting it past Jack again on the ceremonial opening T shot. Walk us through what how special it was to be out there that Thursday morning.

Well, some people yesterday was saying that I had we had tied the previous year, but we all know who won this one Chris, you know, if you can't hit it past old gay player, you have to be out selling beans. Fitter the never, I say. Well, what did you think of Patrick Reed looked a little slim down this year? Did they have to take us Cody in again? Or did you say anything to him at the champion's dinner? What I told him take us Cody in early and make him wear it to the ground like he's

like he's an over stuff balloon and he'll lose the weight. Shame is a great motivator, Chris Sullivan. Well, there's some rumors going around. I don't know if you saw a Kiridek copy-bondrat hit a hook around a tree there on the back nine on one of the days and fell over that he may have injured himself. Do you have any any insight as to what may have happened to him there? Dear God, we was like watching one of those like punching bags like tumbled to the ground and just flailing away. There was a fabulous shot but dear God man, you'd wanted to have someone photoshopped in Gary Prey and stayed

in that moment so you could better appreciate it. I didn't know how to ask an LMO question related questions. I had some Gary Player ones prepared, but... Good, good. So we got a bunch of Twitter questions I want to get through. Nick Anderson asked a great one. Why does Bubba put a mark on his yellow golf ball? God. He pays me half a to, you know, hit up on the green and there's four other guys who just,

you know, maybe Bob and Bob is mind everyone plays a yellow golf ball. He just doesn't, he's never paid any attention to anyone else's deal. I just another oddity that is, Bob, I guess, you know, probably habit of all weeks having put a mark on it. There was that brief moment when he what eagled 15 Oh god, I was like oh god. This is the worst case scenario This is it right here when he birdie he goes full short slow and birdies every hole coming in and there's a there's a third green jacket Like oh well

I yeah, I warned this in the preview episode. I said like just be cautious on Sunday of Overvaluing somebody's position on the leaderboard if they said, like, just be cautious on Sunday of overvaluing somebody's position on the leaderboard. If they've gone through 15 and 16 because those are the birdie holes and you can get higher up on the leaderboard and make it look like your time to lead, but really Tiger hadn't finished 13, 14, 15, 16 yet. And sure enough, it happened. I'm like, oh my God, is that what I'm going to win the Masters? I guess you can actually go. That was the fear and having all of us seen that Schwarzl thing happen in 3rd and 11, like that possibility

of somebody just running away and hiding and birding, it could have been Capca. I mean, Capca had good looks on 17 and 18. What did you think of, Capca had a pretty tumultuous week leading in from brand- els spewing some hot fire. And we got a question, I'm struggling to find it right now, but kind of, why do people find it hard? I guess I might have answered it right there, but why does this particular listener find it, it's will homes.

He said, why is it so hard to root for Keppka when he's such an incredible player? Yeah. You know, I don't know. I mean, I have sort of Kind of embraced Brooks like I It's funny like watching with my daughter. She whatever reason she's just nine years old She really likes Brooks. He doesn't know anything about him But she just just when she's watching his golf game is like oh Brooks is my favorite player like she was way more rooting for him than Tiger and

So like if you just look at the golf game if you're nine years old and you're ignorant of anything else, like he's awesome. But I do think that a little bit of his cockiness doesn't really have a lot of like humor to go with it. Like Phil is cocky obviously, but he also is willing to kind of poke fun at himself yet. And Brooks isn't quite have that thing, like even DJ kind of cracks jokes about himself a little bit. And so I think maybe Brooks would, people would be more willing to open up if he had a little bit more of a sense of humor about himself, but he just doesn't. I mean, you know, Reynolds take about how he's going to fall apart, I thought't, I mean, you know, Randall's take about how he's gonna fall apart. I thought was Sercilli, and, you know, but that's Randall felt like he had backed it up

with, you know, his experience and research, and all good, I think we both agree, but we love Randall. But I don't know, I was stunned that Keppka did not close stronger. Just seeing him hit in the ball and water on 12, to me was surreal. I mean, that to me was like when Sevy hit it

in the water on 15 in 86, because Sevy was probably should have won that master's or certainly Norman. And like, I never thought Brooks would flinch in that moment because he'd never flinched before when he'd been in that situation. And I don't know, like, will... I once compared Keppka to like Hogan and saying like, oh, like maybe he's our version of Hogan, like just a sort of a really,

surly kind of, you know, I don't really hear to be your friend, I'm just here to kick your ass kind of guy and sort of the more modern version of like just pound the shit out of the ball kind of guy and sort of the more modern version of like just pound the shit out of the ball kind of version of that not having like a pretty metronome swing but just a guy just unloads driver. I don't know maybe, maybe Brooks will be more, you know, when Brooks is going for eight majors or whatever and he's come back from his own scandal or something down the road that will be scanning Brooks and willing to be excited about him. Breaking news, you heard it here first. You will be chanting Brooks and willing to be excited about him. Breaking news, you heard it here first. The thing is, almost every player, think about this.

We tend to think of career arcs as like a straight line. It's just not. Every single player over time goes through some huge highs and lows, some, you know, whether it's, you know, they have something go poorly in their family or their marriage or, you know, they have issues with their kids or they, you know, they blow their fortunes or something. Like, you're talking about, you know, a normal human beings and we think, you know,

that just because they're really good at golf, they're not gonna be affected. I mean, Jen, Jen, Jen, Jen sort of said that the only thing it was going to stop Tiger from breaking Netflix's record was a bad marriage or injury. And at Jenkins was wrong about a lot of stuff, especially Tiger, but he was sort of right on those two things. Is it like those two things that we never really could have seen coming were what kind of derailed tiger's crores.

So it's very possible that Brooks has something like that looting the future. It's very possible that like worry and speed are going through like their own sort of searching in ways that we never could have anticipated when they were just kicking ass. And that's why you can't sort of predict anything is going to happen and golf. It's someone's always going gonna have something on their eyes and it's Totally unseen. I think well where I net out on Brooks is like I've struggling with for a comp for him

You know, I know you mentioned Hogan there. I'm not sure if that's it. I think it's it's a bad comp No, I know what you mean. I know what you mean there, but it's it's almost think like It's almost ooze-tazin, you know, just in that this big game hunter that has showed up in so many big moments. And I think we, I don't know, the fact what you touched on there about him winning three majors and thinking, you know, we haven't seen him falter down the stretch. It's like this was way more likely to happen than him winning three straight majors. I mean, it's, it's way more likely that the guys will have up and down.

It's even, even if you've already won it, we've seen this a lot with, with guys recently, speed, winning and 15. We thought he was going to close 16. That's what made it so shocking was like, oh, he can't be nervous here now. I mean, he's already done this before. Surely the hill do it again, but that's just not the way things work out. Going back to Riteef Goosan, he wins it in 2001 at Southern Hills and wins it 2004 at Shinnecock

and then was supposed to win it at Pinehurst the next year and just fell apart on that Sunday and gave it to Michael Campbell. Like it doesn't mean that it's always gonna happen that way just because it's happened for you in the past. And that almost kind of, this one slipping away from Brooks made the first

three even more impressive to me. It like made him even less fluke. It's like, no, this guy's actually stepped up and done it three straight times. And that was putting into perspective how hard it is to actually close and win these things. So I think what you, what we don't realize is like as good as Nicholas was, like he finished second 20 times. He didn't always win those ones that he was in. And that's why Tiger always said, you know, I just, I just need to put myself in contention to give myself chances. And he was right.

Like eventually, like you can't, you can't be just absolutely nails every single time out. And you're going to falter. You're going to have a bad day. You're going to have a bad day or you're gonna have a bad swing Or a bad bounce even and so you know Brooks will probably Go back to winning a couple majors over their course of his career. Maybe a bunch me only be only few more But you know this that he's gonna also be you have ones already blows because that's just how golf works

I mean Tiger had ones with he lets up up way and he's a pretty good closer. Yeah, I mean, Tigers only got seven runner-ups in majors and four third place finishes to go with 15 wins. And Nicholas had like 19 runner-ups and 17 third place finishes. I don't know, again, I said this before, I don't know what it means, but it's not like he's had a ton of close calls. If anything, I think he's tended more on the lucky side of these things falling his way than he has really gotten screwed out of any of them. But he's also- I was thinking like, just sorry, like, you know, like if Rich Beane, they'll hold, when I was thinking about the part about Ellie's never come from behind to win a major.

Well, that's some of that is because like Michael Campbell happened to sort of like hang in there and Pynerson when he was chasing like because Michael Campbell happened to sort of like hang in there in Pynastone. He was chasing like an enriched beam happened to make an incredible frickin' I think, Eagle at the PGA that when you're at Hazeltein, when Tiger was birdied like four in a row to come right out. I'm like, you know, why he Yang stood up to him when no one would imagine that that dude was ever gonna,

you know, Tiger could have scraped around and shot 72, and most of those times won that, won that PGA. And so, like he had a few guys who just were able to kind of say like, yeah, you know what, I'm not gonna, I'm not going away. So he'll did a couple times do him with the masters. So, you know, it's, you just, no one's gonna be, it isn't like Michael Jordan.

I always think that Michael Jordan so much, he, he ruined our perspective of like what an alpha should be in sports because he had six shots at the finals, anyone all six. But it's not like that in golf. Like Michael Jordan also lost a lot to the pistons and the Celtics and all this face on the way up. And that's like the equivalent of like a golfer losing, you know, finishing fourth or whatever, like just because Jordan made it to the finals six time, didn't mean that he was like every time he had a chance

to win a major, you know, if he was a golfer, he would have won it. Right. And that's the separate argument where the defending I've done of LeBron in the past, of how many times he's lost in the finals. And it was like, would you rather have lost in Round Two? Like is that better? Like making some people with that dumb, you know? That's why I was sick. Like, yeah, close calls and golf mean something that doesn't mean,

you know, it is as much as we place so much value on the winner, it is not all about winning events and golf, which again, makes Tigers record of winning them even that much more impressive. So Steve Klein had a great question, do we need to discount everyone else's record from 2014 to 2018 while tiger was injured? No. Does that put an asterical in all Royce majors or two of them? No, I mean, you get the majors that you get, you know, you have the field in front of

you. They're hard to win regardless. And, you know, hey, tiger played in that Chambers Bay major that, that's the spieth one. I think he played the Masters that year too. Yeah. That's right. He competed. He was up there. He was around. He was there. You know, he played at Chinacock when Brooks won. And he did actually okay in all the other majors. So, you know, it's hard to say that, you know, that one shouldn't count either. I mean, all this like, oh, I shouldn't count. Like, that's, it's a funny question to sort of ask because we know it's hard to say that, you know, that one shouldn't count either. I mean, all this like, oh, it shouldn't count.

Like, that's, it's a funny question to sort of ask, because we know it's like not deep down, not serious. But some people who are huge tiger fans, like think that way. Like, if you didn't beat tiger, you know, I remember listening to this years ago, way before I worked for the US band, like an ESPN radio thing. And there was a debate about when Phil was, he was on the cusp of winning. I can't remember which major it was, but Tiger was like way out of it.

I think it was, I don't know, might've been winged foot and Tiger might've missed the cut that year. And so it looked like Phil was gonna win wing foot. People were saying, well if he wins this one, does it really count? Because Tiger was way back. Tiger wasn't in contention like should it really like yeah I think it counts you when the freaking US open better with tigers doing

good go yeah let me give the Kyrger and slam and and doesn't count in everyone's eyes because Phil you know Tiger wasn't around that was that was right after his dad died he that was like the only cut he missed for like in majors for us and crazy long period of time because he came in so unprepared, but I it did remind me about Tiger always brings in non golf people to have like golf debates and it makes for such terrible arguments It's like almost comically bad It's like almost comically bad. You know, you know, you say that, but we got maybe my, one of my favorite takes ever, which came from Skip Bayless on the Fox one of the Fox Sports previews a couple years

ago, which was, you know, was Ricky Fowler tall enough to win it there in Hills. He's like, I'm short to win a major. He's too short to win a major, which was, oh, it's just Italian chef kissing hands right now to that That was my favorite I I used to get really bad when those would come in and Like some people came in this weekend you know from NFL and whatnot I'm like oh my no one does a better job with golf and CBS Nick Fowdo is with the best analyst in the game and I was like oh If I came in it swooped in an NFL Sunday,

the Super Bowl was like, oh, Phil Sims is the best at this. How well do you think that would go over it? It's funny because me, because I cover football too. And so it's like, I get the rare crossover. So that I think my boy Rich Eisenhower. Yes, that's what I'm referring to. And I was like, I wanted to like, do you have to be like, my man, like,

we need to have a talk. To say it, dog. Oh, Faldo is, uh, Faldo is Faldo. I mean, I'm so glad. I think we were sort of, we were tweeted, but I said this one Twitter, but I'm so glad that neither

Nance nor Fal though said anything in the two minutes after the last putt went down and they just let the moment sort of speak for itself. Who knows if they had some restraint there or if someone in CBS got their bikes out. I want somebody riding the oral history of the CBS producer cut their mics or at least cut foul Those it was the guy from forest gum with the Vietnam the Vietnam rally This ripping the chords out that was it was perfect. It was perfect It was like and yeah that moment delivered Bigger than I could have imagined a delivered delivering and there was a lot of there's a lot of macho men here that

And there's a lot of macho men here that made me really, really fight against crying. And I would like to report I did not cry, but you being around your daughters maybe, apparently was enough to bring you down. Yeah, that was not related. When someday when you have children, when Charlie Woods wins one, and you're sitting there with your kids,

and he's hugged and tired, then you'll allow yourself to do that. That'll happen pretty easily. Doug Walker had a question. If the shot on 16 had dropped, would it have been the greatest, most famous shot of all time? He said, I was there. The ground started to move as it neared the whole from the sound. It was incredible. I must say yes. I would have to think so. I mean, I saw our buddy Sean Zachas tweeting about how the thing about how the 16 pin is bad and how maybe needs to be

in different place. I totally just. Yeah, I love. I love that you hit that slope. It's coming down there. It's got a chance like that's just it builds for drama. I don't care. It's like an easy shot. Like, okay, make the easy shot. Like Brooks didn't hit it on the right side of the slope. And so, you know, maybe it was bad luck or whatever, but that was, I thought it was going in. I don't know if you thought it was going in,

but in that moment, I was like, oh my God, this just happened. Like this is another kind of repeat of like the past of like, this is like 2005 in the chip, but better. Imagine what would, what would Vernon have said if that had gone to you? Like, I don't think he could have said anything. I don't think he would have heard of him if he was, if he said anything. What would Tigers, I was thinking about this this morning, what would

Tigers reaction have been? Like, he's still got two hoes, you know, to play, you know, he's got a three-stroke leader at that point. Like, would he have gone bonkers? Would he have been able to sort of restrain himself? Like, I don't know. That, okay, so Big Rainy had a thing like, it went a little gimme, he had on 18.

He should have scooped it and walked away from the game forever. If he'd have aced that, that he definitely should have walked off. He should have walked across the water, picked the ball up out of the hole, thrown it, and then retired and just left. That I've beat him. Yeah. To that point, that shot on 16, it's easy, but it's not in that you have to get it in the right spot.

And there is kind of a bowl there, but you can get it within the bowl and use the slope that doesn't always leave you the easiest putt. If you hit it too long, you end up above the hole. And that's kind of what happened to Spethin. Was it 16? He had birdied 15. And if he birdied 16, it gets within one of the lead,

I think. And he's... The reporter and I were standing right there. And it looked like in the air, like he was gonna dub it. And then it left a really impossible putt coming back. Like a really hard breaking left to right putt. And that kind of where they put that pin is, it's just in a weird spot.

Like, it's hard to use that slope and leave it in a spot where you have a really easy putt. Yeah, when it's two feet, it's pretty easy. But even if it's five feet, it's not like an easy putt. And the guys that missed that bowl, I just, I love shots that have kind of that dividing line of, this isn't that hard to get it in this spot. And if you do, you're probably going to get rewarded. But if you miss this, you are punished severely. And having guys having to deal with those nerves

and bone said something on the podcast last year around the, for a master's preview about how, how much filler watched like videos on YouTube of guys in the pressure on Sunday at the masters and watching them go long. And he's just like, man, there's just something in the air on that 16th. And he's just like, man, there's just something in the air on that 16th.

And he's like, honestly, I know it sounds crazy. There's a lot of people there. I don't know if there's like a lack of oxygen in that little part of the property, but the ball goes further on Sundays. We just have no idea why. And I think it was in 2004, they had, so maybe it wasn't YouTube that they're watching this one,

but it had seen highlights, whatever, 2004, he says all right let's we're putting it into theory let's we're it this is as I might get the clubs wrong this should be a seven iron we are hitting eight and he hit eight and stuffed it and it made no sense for it to be an eight iron but it was and watch the ender shop Lee I think it was the ender shop Lee went long he was kind of staring it down and he was a younger guy and he went long on that Sunday. I had immediately thought back to that quote. I remember a devolving it long in the water on 2001. Like if I was like in that master's where tiger completed the slam, tiger and fill and devol were all kind of doing at one another and devol was like leading I think at that moment and it looked like he was

like he was going to kind of close it. And he just basically hit a hard drive, and he could not believe it. It went so far that it went into the water long, not, you know, like bounce right, but like where it goes past the bunker, whatever. Two things were like one on the recap episode. I said that Zander Bogey'd 15 and 18 to lose the Masters by one, I was dead wrong on that. Thank you for those correcting me. I was looking at the round three scorecard

for some reason, that's what you get for trying to piece that together quickly. And four right, once a say, he says, please, please, please, talk about the guy who won a million dollars betting on Tiger. Do you know much about this story? I saw the headlines and the guy was like $25,000 in debt and bet 85K on him and won a million bucks

I didn't see that he was in debt. Yeah I would I loved about that as For a long time, you know Tiger was the sucker bet in right majors and so Casinos or sports books whatever made a ton of money on People who were like, oh oh man I'm gonna bet Tiger I don't even follow golf but I love Tiger I'm gonna bet and just we're basically like ladding their money on fire because most of the time like you were now you know even in his best he was winning whatever 18% of the majors and this time I

love that like Tiger soaked them because he knows like looking in the couch cushions for coins to sort of meet this tiger obligation. So that's a little bit of enjoyable payback in the situation. I don't remember where I saw this, but I saw a tweet fly across on Sunday. They just said Vegas about to grab their ankles right now. I lost it. We got a good question from Josh Borsek. I think I may say that right. Over under 6.5 years until Tiger finally embraces his baldness and goes full buzz or shave.

So I was talking about as my girlfriend. I don't understand in some ways why he hasn't done it already, but she was like, not everybody looks good with their shaved head. Jordan was able to pull it off because he was a really handsome dude naturally. In the whole arc of his career, he was a bald guy essentially, or he was wore it so tight that he essentially going bald was not any different. What do you think Tiger would look like if he buzz wore it so tight that he essentially go involved was not any different. What do you think Tiger would look like if he buzzed it tight? Like I, you know, I'm just surprised honestly that he hasn't embraced it considering he was a Jordan guy anyway.

And I think he would, I think he would look okay, but I don't know, just maybe just take some getting used. This is the easiest one ever for me. He needs to shave it again and then die at blonde like he did back in the mid 2000s when he looked like Juntao from rush hour like everybody wins in that scenario. I don't see what the possible reason against that would be. The picture the picture with after Trump was elected but not just getting there. It's the Mac Daddy Santa thing and they're playing that that is one of the most surreal pictures ever of tiger with the big blonde goatee in the blonde hair. And Trump and his hair is like

sticking out sideways and he's barely stuffing in his shirt. Like, you could not have shown anyone that picture in 2000 and been like, let me tell you about what's happening to these two guys over the next 20 years. I thought it's wild man. As soon as I saw Trump's tweet on that he was giving Tiger the presidential medal of freedom, about what's happening to these two guys. So, the next 20 years. I thought, it's mild, man. As soon as I saw Trump's tweet on that he was giving Tiger the Presidential Medal of Freedom, I was like, you mean that guy that showed up in the Mac Daddy Santa to play golf with you?

Like, I was so, I was laughing so hard. Also, like, I mean, could Trump like try to steal the moment for himself anymore? Like, I'm giving you this medal. Just be quiet and let the man have his moment. This is something that Obama gave to Charlie Siford when he was like 85. Like, what exactly does... I love Tiger.

What has he done to get the presidential medal of freedom at this moment? I don't know. It's an odd thing. A couple more here quickly. One, and this may be incredibly obvious, but I don't think I've really heard it talked about in this realm yet of, not only is Tiger's three short, major wise of Jack now, he's one short of the green jacket, total, one more major. He's got five to Jack to jack six which is kind of

kind of remarkable. Neil Smith asked we know Jordan's speech ceiling is crazy high but how low is his floor how much further down the official world golf rankings will he go before turning around. Oh boy this is a heavy question I don't know was, I think I floated this question in our chat when we briefly thought that it looked like Speed was like talking to Sean Foley about something and I was like, no, no, no, no. I mean, I like Foley. He's a great interview. And obviously, whatever he's done with Justin Rose, this worked great. The last thing you want is like a young player to start thinking, oh man, let me rebuild my swing and go with a completely

different philosophy. To me, as long as Spieth sticks with Cameron McCormick and keeps figuring things out, he'll come back and get hot again. He just may be the kind of player who goes through searching periods. And that's some of his inability to hit it super far and his inconsistency with or he's

it's streaking in with the putter, whatever, this is gonna make him that kind of player. I mean, on some level, does it matter how far you fall in the world rankings? Like, who gives a shit in some levels? So that was good enough to get into the terms you wanna play, the WGC's like, or whatever. It's not like speed's gonna like,

endanger of losing his card or he's not gonna be exempt for majors or whatever. So I think even if he kept falling, he could still sort of like play professional golf and figure it out until he kind of got a... What you're... If what we're asking is, is speed's going to keep falling forever and lose it? No, I don't think so. And then, if as long as you accept that premise, then I don't think it matters, like what is world ranking? If he's 40th in the world, no one

having seen him be the number one player in the world. I don't think anyone thinks he's you know The 40th ranked player in the world, but you know he might he might just be a top 10 player for the rest of his career And that's you know that's that's okay. Yeah, I would say so top 10 in the world at this point Yeah, that's pretty good. I think I'd like to be top 10 in the world and whatever it is. I do I have I have complete faith in him Yeah, my good friend Jordan speed told me on our on the podcast that his swing has figured out. No, it honestly you take away that front nine on Thursday, which I know you can't do. It's part of the deal. You can't if you took away every player's worst nine holes, you know, it's not a lot like the same,

but it put him behind the eight ball and you played a lot of really good golf to make it, you know, to get back in contention, not in contention, but to make it respectable. So it was a fine showing, but kind of a microcosm of his season of a lot of good going on, but man, the bad when it's bad is not, it's so bad that it can't be overcome and you can't really contend. So last one, he's he's going to contend at Pebble. I I promise you I like that. That's my last one I want to get your thoughts mr. Player on CBD oil. It seems to be all the rage there on the on the circuit Have you have you dabbled it at all yourself? CBD, I've never heard such a thing. I would

Sometimes I would go to the the garage and just take a little sip of motor oil and see like how tough is Gary play out deep down this it's test his intestines and and seeing it you know if he's just gonna process this right through if he's gonna be rolling in pain and lose five more pounds and he can't drop the stomach oil sickness wait what is CBD oil I don't even get I know Toronto is tweeting about the gum thing and like it's all the rage amongst the players privately but what what do you, I don't get it. What is it exactly? It's kind of like, I've heard a lot of good things about it. It's just like a calming, it's kind of like THC.

Got people that actually know about this are probably going to have their head spinning with my explanation of it, but kind of like THC, but it's totally legal and it just just like a, kind of helps relieve anxiety and just watching kind of tigers And I don't I cannot confirm or deny that he is on CB you taking CBD or anything But we saw Phil take a turkey paster to his tongue at one point I don't know what that was but I don't think it was cough syrup but Yeah, it's supposed to just kind of relieve anxiety Maybe it helps with the nerves when you play golf. Maybe we should try it I don't know maybe we need a CBD sponsor or something like that.

But for the listeners, sometimes I'll give a little warning to KVV on what we're going to team up for Gary Player. I gave no warning on anything this week. So the motor oil came out of nowhere and did not see that coming. I was saying before I wanted to be happy being a top 10 player in the world at anything. I think maybe I'm sneaking the top 10 in terms of Gary player impressionist. Maybe, maybe Connor sketchers. I don't know where you'd rank exactly, but I think I'm somewhere in the top 10.

You have the best Gary player impersonator on this podcast for sure. So that is fabulous. So well, KVV, thanks for jumping on this morning and helping us kind of put this historic moment in golf. I have no problem saying that. I think it may be obvious, but this moment into perspective for us and makes me you made me feel even better about all the things I was feeling internally about what we just witnessed. So, you know what, sometimes sports solid, we get to experience just really cool shit. And I, I will be forever sort of thankful for all the fun sort of conversations

that we've had about Tiger that was sort of building up to that masters because it made it all the more worth it because really like everyone everywhere was having those same conversations about Tiger. And in some ways like we're almost like traffic cops kind of directing some of that and where it goes and so whether it was humorous or silly or whatever all the payoff was there and you know I I don't know it's hard to it's weird to be happy for someone you don't know like I've talked to Tiger and press conferences of, you know, so I certainly don't know him.

Like, but I was really happy for him in that moment. It was just kind of a cool thing. And that's why sports is undefeated, man. You just can't, you can't, can't beat it. That was the best. I'm glad that this is my limit. If you had to guess what line I'm gonna end this with, what line I would choose, what would you guess?

Can you guess it? Man, what's the one question I've been asking our group text for years and years and years? What if he won? But what if he won? He won. You gotta think I'm a new one now. I know.

Why am I just saying that with every day again, until he wins another one? I, God, when you said that when he played in the Bahamas? Right for the first time. Yes. So it was like, that's why. Here we are. And he did.

It's been the Elvis Videride. KVV, thanks for the time, man. Cheers. Always buddy. Get the right club, be the right club today. Yeah! Yeah! That is better than most. How about in?

That is better than most. Better than most! Better than most! Expect anything different! Expect anything different.