No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 228: Casey Martin

Episode Date: July 3, 2019

University of Oregon Head Golf Coach Casey Martin joins to discuss his playing career, his lawsuit with the PGA Tour, transitioning into coaching, winning a national championship, Aaron Wise, Norman Xiong, recruiting, and all that goes into being a college golf coach.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yeah. That is better than most. That is better than most. Better than most! Alright guys, welcome back to the podcast. We're going to get to our interview with Casey Martin here shortly. This is what I want to let you guys know. This interview was part of our partnership with Charles Schwab and their Challenger series.

I want you guys to go to SchwabGolf.com. Similar to our interview that we have with Mike Kaiser, they've got a great video with Casey Martin going through kind of some of the practice techniques that he instills in his players at the University of Oregon. We talk about some of that during the interview, talk about the poker chips and stuff. So I do encourage you to go check that out. The videos are absolutely stunning,

they're awesome visually and they're really cool stories. So SchwabGolf.com. And also before we get started, once you guys to go over to our YouTube channel, check out episode three of Taurusos just came out this past Tuesday. And we play Ohai Valley Inn. Similar to the previous episodes, the best comment that gets left on the video.

This week, you're going to win a Odyssey Golf Stroke Lab putter. The last few weeks, you've been given away drivers. This week is a Stroke Lab putter. Go on there. Leave the been given away drivers this week as a Stroke Lab putter, go on there, leave the best comment, don't ask for the putter in the comment, you have to have clearly watched the video and make some kind of funny comment in relation to something you saw in the video.

So please do head over to the YouTube channel, check that out, and for now, enjoy our interview with Casey Martin and have a great holiday. Cheers. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No-Lang-Up podcast. I'm joined today by the head coach at the University of Oregon, Casey Martin, the first college golf coach we've ever had on. We wanted to do this for a while, but Casey, how are you today?

I'm doing great. Thanks for having me. Absolutely. First question I have for you is, would you say you're known more for your time on the PGA tour or for being the head golf coach at organ oh i think i'm known most for the lawsuit with the golf cart i mean that that is why it unfortunately it wasn't that i took the pga tour by storm from a golf playing standpoint but

i would have to say that's probably why most people know my name well i got a lot of questions kind of ask about that but first i want to get into your background where you grew up and how you got into golf. Absolutely. So what you grew up in Eugene from what I gather, so I was just curious how you ended up at Stanford then. Yeah, so I grew up in Eugene.

Went to South of Gene High School, been in Oregon all my life, got playing golf at a young age and at Eugene Country Club. And just as my life is, I love sports. I grew up going to all the Oregon football basketball games and just loved it and loved golf. But couldn't play all those sports at least not at a real high level because of my leg. And so, you know, with having a disability.

So I took to golf, I could play that, didn't. And you know, got recruited by a number of Pac-12 schools. And Oregon was one of them. And like I said, I love Oregon just based on my family's connection to it and my love for the ducks. But I didn't think I could play professionally and so it was hard for me to turn down a scholarship to Stanford and so I went there

and love my time at Stanford. And so that's kind of how I got there. And then I've lived in Eugene basically, all my life even when I played professionally I I lived here and and So it was an easy transition to be the coach when I retired from golf when I was 35 or 33 Was there anyone noteworthy that you cross paths with during your time at Stanford? I'd love to hear about your your interactions with notabagay

well Yeah, I mean noted I were Were together the whole time. And then Tiger showed up our senior year. Tiger was a freshman. And I lived with a lot of the guys on the football team. And one of them, guy named Steve Stenstrom, was at one point the Pac-12 leading quarter back through the air.

I think he had thousands and thousands of yards. And so that was fun getting to know a lot of those guys. So yeah, there were a lot of famous people at Stanford. And just a couple of those guys that I Was close with but there were plenty more. What was your first interaction with Tiger Woods like? Oh, man, I Probably the first time trying to think back Came on a recruiting trip and stayed with me actually and a lot of those football players up in a home in Woodside, California we had.

And so got to know them there on the recruiting trip and then played some amateur golf with it. When he was just coming up into the amateur ranks, play with him a little bit and then certainly at Stanford for that year. So I mean, the first impression you have is just how dominant his golf game was. I mean, note and I were both a couple of time all Americans and when he showed up as an 18-year-old, he was significantly better than we were. I mean, by miles. So it was fun to be around and to see greatness up, you know, firsthand. And

he certainly hasn't disappointed. He just kept doing it. Well, what stuck out the most kind of, you know, you say, he was miles and miles better than you at that point was it just the distance the accuracy the putting the is a one thing really stuck out at that time frame that was that much better than anybody else that was in college you just said it distance accuracy uh... mental putting shipping he was just flat-out better than everything and i think what stands out at the time was a speed i mean he was so explosive that it's explosive that his hips used to fire so fast.

And just, I mean, the ball just came off majorly differently. But it was more than that. It was everything. I mean, his mental take and just his how he carried himself. I mean, he was just way different. And I played with great ones in college. I played with Phil and and had had been around Furek and a lot of these guys, you know and and nota, you know, who's great too and then Tigers just is just way different

Way different. What was he what was it like kind of socially this, you know, you know Hey, you were you were an elder guy on the team and he was young. What was how did he fit in kind of from a social perspective on the team? I'm just curious of what he was like at that age. You know, he couldn't find because he was kind of a rock star And so you know people kind of would treat him maybe a little differently just because of you know his reputation But I thought he fit it in fine. I mean, I was a 50 year senior at the time So he was a freshman so it wasn't like we were hanging out on weekends a lot together, but he seemed well-adjusted. I mean, it's hard to be totally normal when you're so great, but I thought he did a pretty good job of it.

I mean, people liked him and he fit in, and so there were no issues there. I can imagine you can describe this much better than I can, and I kind of do this for the listeners that aren't familiar, and I imagine you've told the story many times. But can you explain the disability you were born with and how that affected your golf career? Yeah, well, basically, I have just my right leg has massive vascular abnormalities. And so long story short, the blood will go down into my leg,

but it won't devalze and whatnot. The pump it back up don't work properly. So my leg will swell up incredibly. You can see it swell up. And I wear a couple of really tight compressant stockings to keep it in check. And that's basically what I've had to deal with. And that in and of itself is painful.

And it is what it is. But I've had a lot of related issues with that. When I've been really active, just the blood because it kind of pools in my leg a little bit, it tends to create some problems and pain being one of them, but also just my bone in my in my leg has been deteriorated a little bit just because the blood circulation isn't as good. So I've dealt with that since I was a kid and that's basically it in a nutshell.

Well, I mean, I imagine it might be hard to answer because you've dealt with it for eternity with your golf swing, but does it affect your golf swing? Is it, do you have like the full strength to launch off of your right foot? Well, no, I don't know if you launch off your right foot in the golf swing, but I don't. Maybe that's why I'm not a golf coach. I don't. Yeah, I mean, it's affected me, certainly. It affects me from getting from point a to point b, and then it affects my ability to do a few things in the golf swing. And I think if you broke down my swing a little bit, you'd see some unique things.

Mainly, I probably pressure into my left side earlier, and then some, because I don't like putting a lot of weight on my right. So that's, that challenge has been something, I mean, it's good and golf you want to get into your left side. So it's not a bad thing, but I have a tendency to maybe do it a little too much or a little too early occasionally. So that's been something I've had to deal with a little bit in my golf swing, and certainly dealing with pain. When you are swinging a club at 100 plus miles an hour

and you know, your leg hurts a little bit, it's sometimes hard to trust. And so those are the things that probably, plus miles an hour and you know your leg hurts a little bit. It's sometimes hard to trust. And so those are the things that probably, but by and large, I can hit the ball. So it's not like it affects it greatly, but it has some impact for sure. Well, I mean, growing up as a kid and then in college as well,

were you getting from shot to shot using a golf cart? So no, not initially. I, when I played as a kid, I walked around. But it was kind of in college when it started to go really downhill, because I was walking so much and on and all the time, and playing 36 holes midway through my college experience, it got really bad. And my coach pulled me aside and said, look, you need to do something because this thing isn't working out. So Nancy 2A had a clause for people with disabilities to be able to use a golf card and my coach basically

forced me to do it. I mean, I'm grateful for it and I didn't put up much of a fight, but I thought it because I didn't want to do it. And so once I did though, it did kind of take some of the edge off and probably freed me up a little bit, so I stuck with it. So take me back to your finishing college now, and you said it didn't sound like going into college that you were planning necessarily to have a career in professional golf.

When did that change for you, and why did that change? Yeah, that's a good question. So no, I'm a pretty realistic guy, and so when you're having a disability, it's like, you know, you got a Stanford education or try to go play the tour with the disability. I mean, it obviously makes sense to probably work hard in school, which I did. But my freshman year I was in all American. And so I started to realize, okay, well, maybe I can do this

a little bit and I started to realize about how much work it takes. And the more I got involved in school at Stanford, the more I wanted to be a professional golfer because it was hard and I was an econ major and I don't know if I really loved it that much. And so I kind of like being on the golf course. And so I think midway through college I started to realize despite my leg kind of going downhill that it was something that I kind of wanted to do. So I finished school certainly and did find, but school kind of waned as far as my passion.

When I was going to Stanford, I kind of wanted to be a doctor and that quickly was sorted by some of the classes you had to take and some of the competition I was up against. And I was like, I can't do this. So I kind of took a little easier route. Academically, it's Stanford, you know, Econ, but still pretty hard from the standpoint of you're at Stanford, but it wasn't like doing the sciences. So, but I didn't love it. And so, I think I love Galsmore and that's kind of how my life

has gone down that path. So, so leaving college, is that something you did immediately was petition the PGA tour for ability to use the card, and were you surprised that there was the pushback that there was? Well, no, I didn't initially, so I played on the PGA tours mainly the Hooters tour for a couple years down the southeast, and my first year I walked and did okay,

but my leg struggled, and then the next year I really struggled physically. And so I petitioned them midway through to give me a card and I was denied. And I found out that they had actually reached out to the PGA tour on what to do. The tour advised them to say no. And so I learned that after the fact, but I was denied that. And so I went to Q school one final time, you know, and that's when I actually made it through and that's when the whole legal thing happened with the PGA tour because they were denying me a cart and so I sued under the ADA and you know long story short was able to win.

Were you surprised at how much controversy that was and how much attention it got at the time? Yeah, I guess when you get into it, to me it wasn't that big of a deal because I'd done it in college and they knew I was coming and the ADA was in place and so I didn't think it would be a big deal, but they chose to fight it and so they kind of in a sense made it a big deal and so it kind of erupted and and you know certainly caused for some tension and for some anxious moments, but also gave me a look, you know, like I said, a name in the game. It gave me something that people knew me. So it created some opportunities for me, which was great.

Last one on this topic, and then we'll get to some of your coaching at Oregon, but we're recording this during the week of the PGA championship. And I'm sure you've been asked this one a bunch this week. But what did you think about John Daley petitioning and receiving a card at this week's PGA? Yeah, you know, that obviously just came out of the blue and so a couple thoughts on it. First off, all that system that's been in place came kind of because of my ordeal. And now that they have an ability where you can petition and doctors look at it and they make an individual assessment. So when I went through the tour, that's what the ADA says by law organizations have to do.

You have to make individual assessments to determine whether it's a reasonable accommodation, right? And the tour chose not to do that with my case. They sent back all my records, all my videos, I sent them. They said it doesn't matter. It doesn't apply to us. It lost. And while the court certainly said it does apply because it's the law and you have to make individual assessments. So that sort of was the basis of my law case. Okay. So 20 years

later, the PGA of America, they, they, John Dele petitioned and sent in doctors records. The doctors looked at it, made an evaluation and granted them a card. So from my standpoint, it's certainly, you know, I can look back and say, hey, you know, certainly 20 years later, it's starting to work more like the law would, would, would require. And, and I'm grateful for him that he got it. It's definitely a different situation than me, but at the same time, all disabilities are different. And I'm not the one to judge whether, hey, he's disabled enough or not. They looked at it, the doctors looked at it, and in a way we go.

And I think the thing to keep in mind is when you're dealing with professional golf, you're dealing with big money, you're dealing with opportunity, and someone with a disability, I mean, by law, shouldn't be discriminated against to go make a buck. And so regardless of what you think, if John hadn't taken care of his body or whatever, I know that's some of what's been coming out. The bottom line is he has a disability that's recognized and he has a chance to go earn his living this week.

And so, I'm grateful for that. And so, hopefully he plays well today and makes some money. I know you still play some professional golf, but you've been the men's golf coach at Oregon for how long now is it 2006, is that right? Yeah, 13th season. Yeah. What was that process like and how did you kind of decide, you know, this is time for

me now to transition from, you know, a full time professional schedule into coaching college golf? Yeah, well, the writing was kind of on the wall on a couple levels. I wasn't playing very well. I was frustrated and my leg wasn't doing very well, even though I was writing. I was in a lot of pain and I mean, wait, you just cost, you know, because I wasn't sleeping great because the pain was there

and every day standing and trying to do what I needed to do. It just came to the point where I could have put up with it if I was making a lot of money, but I wasn't. I was struggling and missing cuts. You just kind of, you know, through a series, you just kind of, for me, as my faith, there's a Christian I was praying a lot about it. You can just, this opportunity arose at Oregon, which was unique to me. The head coach at the time was a friend of mine and pulled me aside. He said, hey, if you ever consider not playing, you should take my job because I get ready to retire. And so it just worked out that he did.

His name was Steve Naser and he retired and he kind of brokered me to take over the job and then he became my assistant for one year over that's what he said, which actually turned into probably about four or five years because he enjoyed it. So we stayed on together. So it was at that process and that time my life where I was kind of ready to maybe do something different. And I'd always, growing up in Eugene, I love the ducks, love the thought of taking a team and a challenge of maybe a nontraditional golf school and seeing, you know, if you couldn't try to do something special. And so that intrigued me. And what also intrigued me was the fact that I wouldn't have to go practice all day and

you know, wear out my leg. And so it worked out, but it was tough, too, because I'd put so much into my career, especially legally and all the stuff you had to go through, it was really hard to stop and walk away. So I was torn with that. I was torn with my identity of whether I should, you know, I'd deed myself as a professional golfer, not a coach. And so there was a gradual transformation there of, you know, let, you know, I'd viewed myself as a professional golfer, not a coach. And so there was a gradual transformation there of, you know, you know, kind of letting go. And that was painful. But I'm grateful I did it because it's tough to make a living

out there. The players on the tour are great. And not being able bodied, in a sense, it's even harder, right? So, but doing what I'm doing now, I do love it. And it's been funded Oregon to kind of make a mark and take the program and run with it. And you mentioned it being a non-traditional golf school. What was, again, assume for the listeners that they don't follow college golf closely. What was the state of the program when you got there and the state of the program currently?

Yeah, well, the state of the program Oregon has a great athletic department. You know, track and field, that's the whole Nike tradition, you know, Phil Knight, ran track at Oregon and Nike started on Hayward Field, the really the Oregon track field. So Oregon has a heritage of a lot of really athletics and running. And then certainly in the last 20 years with football and the success there. and then Phil Knight giving so much back to Oregon, the facilities are amazing. So it was in place at Oregon to be really good at a lot of sports, but we were kind of an

up and coming school in a lot of respects compared to the traditional powers in a lot of sports. But Oregon has been coming on, but when you look at Oregon, the program was fine, it was solid, but it's hard in Oregon to compete against the Texas and Stanford and USC's of the world, just because it's a small state and it reigns in Oregon, and a lot of people like to play golf in the sun. So you have to deal with that, and so that's probably why it's never, you know, it's not a non-traditional power, just because it's a little more north and that way. So, but it's living here all my life, I've known, you can play golf here a year round. So it's not detrimental. It's just, it's a more of a perception, but it was exciting for me to take over the program and, you know, almost share

kind of what I've learned through the years and and kind of what I wish I would have done looking back on my career and try to craft a program based around that. Well, I kind of want to talk a bit about how you're balancing your role. You're dealing with kids that are at a very impressionable age and you're balancing your role between coaching them for the golf course but also shaping them for the rest of your life. And I think what you said earlier about just how you viewed why you went to Stanford

and how you viewed the rest of your life. The first thing I want to ask, though, along these lines, is, did you, is there anything you really learned from your college golf coach that has stuck with you and kind of influenced your coaching style at Oregon? Well, I think first off, I really enjoyed my time at Stanford and I enjoyed playing for a while at Goodwin, and so I had a great, I guess, my view of college golf, I enjoyed it. So why not do it again? You know, I think some people maybe don't enjoy it as much, and so why would you want to

get into coaching if you didn't enjoy it? So I did enjoy it, and so if I learned anything, I enjoyed playing golf, and I enjoyed being around the guys. And so I wanted to do that. And certainly our coach stress certain things, which I currently do. And but then I looked at our program at Stanford and what we did, and I was like, okay, what I do, do you think differently? And then I looked at my career, and what I would have done differently, and tried to come up with some different ideas of what my program was going to look like. So what we do currently is kind of a combination of things I wish we would have done, maybe more of in school and stuff we did do. It's not like it's a perfect program, but it's just kind of brought some of my experiences

to head and trying to craft them into what I would have done. This is what we do. Well, one of the things that stuck out to me from the Schwab Challenger video was the poker chips. That got my attention immediately. So explain to me the poker chips and how you guys do that. Well, so basically one thing when I looked back at my time at Stanford, when I started to really see improvement and really enjoyed what I was doing is when we competed a ton. Obviously you play tournaments and that goes that same. But when we were at home,

we used to go play for a few bucks on the putting green and it used to be me and the current coach, Conrad Ray, we go play with Tiger and Nota and all the other guys in the team, we would just go play for quarters or dollars or whatever. And we would have fun games and it was just a hoot and we had a blast and it was hyper-hyper competitive. And so I think trying to bring some of that and trying to bring some of the element of, you know, when you gamble on the golf course, it makes you feel pressure. And so how do you do that in an NCAA program when you're not allowed to gamble necessarily? So the poker chips came out of an idea years ago on my team.

A handful of guys like to play poker on my team and kind of during the poker craze 10 years ago and at least to have these poker chips and mark their balls with it. And I just kind of crossed my mind with my assistant coaches. Like why don't we craft something? Let's do Oregon poker chips and maybe create some games and challenges that we can do that the guys use kind of fake money and we have this fun deal. And so it kind of grew out of just an idea

and we did it the first year. I thought it was maybe going to be a little corny and wasn't sure how it'd be taken, but guys loved it. So we gave everyone kind of fake money poker chips that said Oregon golf and every practice we competed for stuff, we had short game drills and our team drills or we'd go play the golf course and everyone would have to put, you know, any up.

And we just kept competing and it was really fun and everyone loved it. So that was just born out of just an idea of when I played well, I really felt like I was competing all the time. I wasn't working on my mechanics every day, necessarily, I was trying to beat my buddies. And so to do that at Oregon, we tried to craft that. And it became really so popular that we just kept trying to refine it. So that's basically all it is. It's just guys out there trying to trying to beat each other,

but it was a little sophistication behind it. And that's what we do, and we do a lot of it. And I've got to seem to have fun with it. So how, how me to kind of understand how that works? Because I mean, that, that's obviously like a very well organized team practice mentality. What are like the NCAA regulations around? How much you guys can practice? And our guys kind of are, is most practice like all done together as a team or guys kind of go off individually?

What's that? What's that look like? So college golf, there's a wide variety of it. And there's a lot of programs that's very little structure, you know, and I never, I didn't want to get into and have a program where I wasn't involved. It just didn't seem like fun to me. So at Oregon, there's a lot of structure for better or worse, you know, but basically you're a lot of 20 hours a week from the from the NCAA to mandate

practice time. And so around a golf counts is four hours. So we play three rounds a golf a week, a typical week we play three rounds, which is 12 hours and then we'll do two, three hour or basically two, two hours short game or team practices, maybe three hour depending on the week or whatever. And then we'll have the remaining time. We'll do some workouts that also count. So we try to be well-rounded. But for those days that we're doing team stuff, it's not all practice words doing poker chip stuff.

But maybe there'll be a couple challenges a day that we have to accomplish. And then the rest of the time the guys work on their game or what they need to do. And so, but Brad, my assistant Brad landing and I, who also want to stay aford with me and we kind of bring, we bring a lot of our experiences together and try to craft practice that we would want to be involved in, you know, that's kind of what we do. And, but a lot of it's pretty traditional. I mean, you play golf, right? And, but I think the difference is Brad and I, both our decent player still, So we'll play with the guys and and we're just pretty active with them. You know, it's not like we just sit back and and sip coffee while they play. We're pretty active, you know, and

and watching them and trying to develop them and doesn't mean we're there all their swing coaches. But we we we're involved for whatever however that looks and we enjoy it. And that's kind of how we do it and But some programs aren't like that some programs are more laid back so to each the room Well, what you just mentioned there I was always curious the balance between being a swing coach and being just a leader I mean, so how do you do that? And is that how does that kind of compare to other programs that you see? Yeah, well, I think I think every college coach kind of wants to be their swing coach. They want

to feel like they're involved that way. And I'm no different. I like to get involved that way, but it's dangerous because, you know, if you, if you overhaul a kid's swing and he doesn't play well, and you don't take him, then he, you know, how does that work out? Or if you give one kid a lot of attention and he starts playing well, then, then how does that work? You know, there's a dynamic there, but I've kind of taken it that I work with the swing coaches that the kids have and I encourage the guys to have them and I'll try to see and relate to those coaches or the swing coaches based on what I see in competition and what I see on a daily basis. And then if a kid's really struggling, I will get in there.

I won't sit idly by, but it is hard. I mean, I have a lot of respect for good swing coaches because there's a lot of variables in the golf swing, a lot of variables in a competitive golfers mind that you have to balance. And so that part's, it's tricky. And I've had some success and some not success doing it. And so I'm happy to do whatever. I'm happy to lead and guide and put pieces around or I'm happy to get involved.

It just depends on what the kids need. So one interesting, like, tidbit on that is so air and wise who was the DJ tour rookie of the year last year. He called, he was a player of mine and he called me up his senior year in the fall of a senior year right where he had signed. He says, Coach was a player of mine and he called me up his senior year and the fall of a senior year right where he had signed. He says, Coach, I'm awful.

I stuck. I'm not at all. And I'm like, he was just kind of carrying on. But he expressed his may over. He didn't understand his golf swing. His swing coach at the time didn't understand his golf swing. And I want to be really good. But what do I do?

And so I had a chance to kind of, you know, from he was in Southern California at the time, a senior in high school, but I had a chance to kind of help him and guide him. And I got him hooked up with a guy named Jeff Smith who was a guy that I trusted with my swing and learned a lot from. And so Jeff was asking me, he says, man, if you have any young players,

I really want to help a kid go through the process. And so I just kind of, you know, I wasn't his swing coach at any level. I just kind of put the pieces together and really enjoyed that process of learning about how Jeff worked with Aaron. And, you know, I talked to Jeff all the time about what I saw and kind of put it together. And Lone the whole Aaron came up and was a dominant player, won the NCAA and turned pro after two years. Actually worked too well because he turned pro after two years and left and then was the rookie of the year

on the PGA tour. So that was probably the best success story of maybe my coaching in a sense. And it involves me not being his swing coach, but it did involve me kind of playing a role and overseeing that. So it was enjoyable at that level. And certainly I don't get the chess pump of saying, I'm his swing coach, you know, but I

got to play a role in a young man's life and got to kind of be part of it and broker it. And it was fun to see his success. mentioning Aaron Wise there, have you seen any noticeable bump from a recruiting standpoint and him winning NCAAs and him being the PJ tour rookie of the year? Does that change anything in the landscape for you for recruiting? You know, recruiting's been interesting. I mean, you'd think so and yeah, certainly it does. But when you recruit to Oregon, my recruiting feel with Aaron and a lot of these guys was,

hey, it's never been done here. Let's try to do it. And so that was kind of the underdog recruiting mentality of, hey, let's try to take down the colonial powers, come join me. And so having done that now with winning a championship a few years ago, recruiting has been interesting because now you want to recruit all the A-plus kids that have a chance to go to some of these traditional powers and it's a little different now and a little harder actually on some of those guys because it's been done. The recruiting, I guess, recruiting sell of, hey, let's build a program. Now that it's kind of been built and we've won, it's okay, what's next. And so that part's been a little challenge. I've actually lost some kids,

I think, because they either were really, really good and had options to go everywhere, or they wanted to go to a program and be that guy, the air and wise, to win a championship at a program that doesn't, hasn't won one. So it's been a little bit of a challenge, and it's caused Brad and I a little bit to look hard and there's certainly plenty of good kids out there, but that part's been a challenge. It's not been like, oh, we just want a championship. They all everyone wants to come to Oregon. It's not like that. I think they still, you know, there's a lot of great programs out there. So we still have to kind of work extra hard to find to find them and bring them to Oregon. But that's part of the fun. It's what I enjoy and the challenges, something I relish.

Well, as I was gonna say, that's relative for challenge and the being the success is causing that challenge to change the recruiting pitch a little bit. So you guys won the national title in 2016. So take me back to that time, Peary, going into NCAAs, where you guys wanted the favorites to win it,

was it a big upset and kind of what was that like, you know, it being there for 10 years to see your team win the national title? So, is it an awesome thing, one of the highlights of my career for sure, and so the, it's kind of interesting. I had this core team, I thought was really good, and Aaron was a sophomore at the time when we won it. But when he was a freshman, he came in on a team that was a little younger and had some talent. And we actually just kind of exploded. So Aaron's freshman year, we got really, really good in the fall.

In fact, we won all four of our events in the fall. We're ranked number one in the polls. And we were really, really good. And then we kind of struggled that spring. And I think maybe we were a little young and had a few off the course issues. And just we kind of faded, didn't do great at the National Championship that spring.

And so the following year, the year we won it, we started off a little differently. We started off a little slower. We're kind of trying to find our way and then peeked at the end and won. So it looked like we were a little bit of an under the radar, or in one, because they're playing their home course. But if you look at it, it's just kind of how things worked out and just kind of the

evolution of our team. It was an extremely talented team by virtue of the fact that a year earlier, pretty much the same guys, we were right number one and yet had kind of faded and retooled and came on back and then won it. But it was just a really fun process to see and it was really anxious. I mean, hosting a championship like that, we going to regionals, you know, we got ship to Arizona and had to fight our way, totally different conditions to make it back to, and I look back on that and that's the unseen thing that people don't realize is you go to regionals and you got to

finish top five out of 14 teams to make it to nationals and that was one of the most stressful weeks of my life to just knowing the stress of you don't want to host a championship and not be there in fact it just happened this last week with Arkansas they finished six and and they won't be playing in their home tournament, you know, for the national championship. And it's just, it's kind of the untold story of the kind of the pressure that some of these kids and coaches are under when you host a championship. But we were able to do it and we played in our home course and had our home fans and it

was just an incredible journey and thousands of people out there cheering us on and it came all the way down to a young man in Solman Raza who went to my high school grew up. I used to when I was still playing professionally, he'd come out and hit balls with me as a eight-year-old, right? And so to see him be on the team and be able to sink the winning putt and playoff was just a magical story of us hosting and a local kid from grew up a mile from the golf course getting to sink the winning putt for the championship. So I've got this picture in my office that I just cherish is of Somaan winning the putt and him you know with his mouth wide open screaming and it's just like it's just kind of that epic moment and and a culmination of a lot of hard work to get there and a really really really great, great feeling, you know.

Well, that's, yeah, that's what you do it for. But was, was kind of, you know, that success with Aaron and with the team, is that, what was the recruiting process like for recruiting Norman Jong and kind of how he took the college golf world by storm shortly after that? Norman did, he sure did take the world by storm. So Norman had committed prior after that. The tournament did, he sure did take the world by storm. So Norman had committed prior to that. And basically, my big selling point with him is, hey, we're getting better, we're better,

but I'm still looking for that A-plus superstar to take us over the top. And he chose to come to Oregon over pretty much everywhere for that recruiting pitch. And when I was telling you about that, that was, I had that in mind about Norman, in a sense of just an incredible iconic player, treating Oregon over a lot of other schools to try to be the guy that to do it. Well, his, his before he got there, we were able to win before he showed up.

And so he was almost like coach, I don't know if I'm still coming. I, you've already done, you don't need me, but we did. And, and so story is interesting. I just saw him and just couldn't believe in the recruiting process how good he was. And he was fortunate enough he graduated early, came actually the year after we won. He showed up in January the next year. And you know, we didn't win the championship, but we did win the Pac-12s and then lost in the finals to Oklahoma. And so as a freshman, Norman was the, he was the film Nicholson freshman of the year and only half the year. And then the following season, last year, he was a national player of the year.

What would have been or should have been his freshman year? So Norman just came in and was just so good, so quick, and just was incredible to watch. And then he left way too soon for my liking, because you know, you recruit him, and you know, thinking you'll have him for three years maybe, and he leaves after a year and a half, and it's just like it just happened all too soon.

But I'm so grateful he chose Oregon, and you know, he's strong a little bit as a pro, you know, it's hard out there, and he's trying to get things figured out, but he is such a talent, such a wonderful guy. I just cheer for him like he can't believe. Well, that's kind of where I was going to go next. And I think it's kind of relative to what you were saying earlier

about trying to guide these guys in the best way you can. And whether that be being a swing coach when needed or guiding them towards the right swing coach, I imagine something like Norman leaving after one year is kind of the same situation. You want him to be as successful as possible. So do you do you in him discuss like his future professional plans? Were you surprised? He went pro or did you look at kind of what he accomplished in that one year and say,

yeah, this is time. This makes sense. Yeah. No, I played a big role there. I mean, that's kind of why kids came to Oregon is or would come is is to hopefully have me play some whatever role I can in that. And so, Norman should have turned pro from a financial standpoint, he should have. I mean, I'm not going to divulge everything, but he made a lot of sense financially for him to turn pro. Let's just say that. And so, Norman's interesting guy, he grew up not really with a father in

his life and without a lot of money, growing up in a condo basically and a public golf kind of deal. And so when you get that good and you've got a situation where you can kind of help take care of your family, that's why you go to college, right? So I was totally on board. I mean, it broke my heart. Did not have them on the team because we really suffered this year without it. But it was the right thing I think for him to do, certainly financially. But what he's learning is, man, there's a lot of good players out there. And when you're 19 years old and you turn pro, no matter how good you are, it's not easy. And he's definitely struggled, although I'm sure it's just a function of him just,

you know, getting comfortable and just getting ready. I mean, Justin Rose missed his first 20 cuts. Did he? I think when he turned pro at that age and he's pretty good now. So I truly believe Norman will have a big impact in the game and I thought it would be this year, but it might be down the road a little bit, but I still think he's going to do it.

Yeah, he's got plenty of time. What is, what's something that sticks out to you that incoming freshmen are yet to learn, either about themselves or about golf, or lessons that you find yourself kind of repeating year in and year out with some of your incoming freshmen? You know, a lot of it's off the course stuff,

just time management and just a lot of it's mental things. Certainly, most of these kids have golf swing improvement and skill improvement, but that happens. And I think that what a lot of them don't realize is how important just emotions and their mental preparation and just getting their mind right really plays into their scores, you know, even more so than their mechanics. So the big thing is just we try to attack it on all levels. I mean, we try to have mechanical help. We try to have mental help and emotional help and just play a role in whatever these kids need

because everyone is different. Some kids need things differently. But I would say the biggest thing is what they're probably, they don't realize how much all the extra stuff plays into how they play. You know, just, you know, if they're stressed, relationally, or if they're stressed school, if they're stressed off the golf course,

it kind of bleeds into it. So we try to make sure that, you know, they're doing the right things and kind of things under wraps so that golf is a joy to them. It's not a stress. And so that's not part initially. And then, you know, a lot of the kids need different levels

to skill help. You know, a guy like Norman didn't need much skill help. But some of the kids do. And so it takes other kids a little bit of time. And, but that's what we do. We, Brad and I, we just get in there and try to play a role however we can, you know. And, you know, it's been, we've had a lot of success, so that's fun. But it doesn't always work out great.

And there's always challenges behind every door. And we don't have a lockdown on everything. I mean, we struggle as coaches too to figure things out. But we at least try hard, I think, so. Is there anything kind of in your recruiting process that sticks out to you as a turn-off that would make you want to kind of stay away from a potential recruit? I mean, sure, you can think of a number of things. I mean, like I said, Brad and I, we talk all the time about it. And about the number one thing that when we recruit is what do you shoot?

Right. The biggest turnoff is it's the shoe of bad scores, right? Because so much of all these things we're talking about when you play golf every day and compete, you post a score and it all goes into it. So if you're mechanistic, you're good and you're a mental good and you're physical, your body's in good shape and you're in a good place emotionally, you're going to probably shoot good scores and you're going to be recruited. And if something's out of whack, you probably won't shoot good scores.

So you look at when you recruit, you just, these kids shoot scores all the time and you take that and you try to recruit the ones that do that, Do shoot a lot of low scores. So it sounds pretty simple. But then once you get them, the kids struggle with different things and how to help them is it's just different for everybody. There's no set thing. But the biggest thing we do is we try to recruit kids that shoot low scores and then if there's any turnoff, certainly attitude and academics can certainly turn you off. One thing that doesn't turn us off too much is, you know, a funky golf swing because I've had some good players with funky golf swings. So if a kid shooting low scores, doing it with a little bit of funk, that won't turn me off as much as you think. But trucking clubs or being

a total punk would probably turn me off. And if you have a one point in high school GPA, that would probably turn me off, too. All right. Last one, I'll let you out of of here. Do you see kind of how do you see how things have evolved and I'm curious at that level college level in high school golf. Is there anything or do you ever get the feeling that there might be too much reliance on track man? How do you involve kind of some of the technological advancements in the game with your program? No I don't think so. I think any, you know, the technology is good. I mean, you need to use it.

I mean, you can over do anything, but the college programs now, they're a lot more sophisticated. You have technology like Trackman, and then you have a lot of the stat systems coming out and the data that's being generated from the tour, and you can take a lot of that, and a lot of nutrition stuff, a lot of workouts. I mean, the games change. I mean, Tiger changed it, working out, doing certain things. So what we're experiencing now are these, a lot of these programs are just more sophisticated.

But, you know, I probably am a little more old school too. I just, I love just going to play golf and shipping and putting with the guys and just competing. I think that's the number one thing. That's what we do, that's what we're about. Because that's what I think I want, I needed to be about more when I, when I play it. And so that, to me, trumps anything like Track Man or any really high, sophisticated

level of analyzing, analyzing golf. I think the thing, just go get dirty, go, go play and figure it out. But a lot of these programs are, are, are two, we've got a bunch of Track Man's and we love it because if there is a problem you can it's easier to figure it out sometimes. But really golf is still golf that you just go play and and and like you said try to dig it out of the dirt a little bit and and I enjoy that process. I enjoy being a coach and trying to help these kids do it and it's really rewarding when they figure it out and it is it makes me sad when they don't but it's a fun it's a fun

gig for sure awesome well thank you coach martin for the time and for all the insights into your program and career and it's it's been great thank you very much we'll hope to do it thank you thank you thank you thank you anytime thanks Be the right club today. Yeah. That is better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most.

Better than most. Expect anything different. I Expect anything different