No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 239: Cabot Links

Episode Date: August 14, 2019

We took a trip up to Cabot Links this summer for our annual board meeting and a few rounds of golf. We talk about the backstory behind one of the world's great golf destination, what we thought of Cabot Links, Cabot Cliffs, the accommodation, how we'd split ten rounds between the two courses.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yes! That is better than most. That is better than most. Better than most. Alright guys, welcome back to the podcast. In this episode today, we're going to debrief our trip up north to Cabot Links and Cabot Cliffs up in Nova Scotia. And our experience there, the five of us all went up there for a couple days in July. Had our annual board meeting, played some golf, and then myself, DJ and Tron are gonna be

on this episode breaking it down. Big Randy's on vacation at the time that we recorded this. Neil is of course up in New York. So, before we do officially get going, I wanna give you guys a quick reminder that if you are ever having trouble dialing in your equipment

or you aren't sure about specifics of getting custom fit, make sure you guys give the fitting room podcast, listen, AJ and Nate from Callaway Golf, dialing in your equipment or you aren't sure about specifics of getting custom fit. Make sure you guys give the fitting room podcast, listen, AJ and Nate from Callaway Golf, take a deep dive into really interesting fitting topics, tell golfers everywhere, make sure they have the right gear in the bag. I'm embarrassed to say that I used the wrong shaft in my driver for an entire year last year.

Justin Huber, who just catty-for- me in a mid-amp qualifier, he looked at my shaft and was like, what are you doing here? This isn't even close to the right fit. I did go out to Calaway. We all did to get fit for our epic flash drivers in January. I have now officially cut my handicap by 4.4 shots just from getting properly fit. I made some swing changes in there as well, but the differences are, I can't even explain how big of a difference it's made in my game. So they do release episodes every Monday, the conversation this week was centered around

what makes the three wood so difficult to get fit for, how to know you're playing the right one, they got a live calling show on serious XMPJ tour radio, every single Monday night, 8 PM, 5 PM Pacific. So make sure you give the fitting room listen. Just search the fitting room anywhere you get your podcast and it'll be a better player because of it. And without further delay, here's our episode on Cabot Links. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No Laying Up podcast. Sully here with Tron and DJ

here in the Kill House. We're going to debrief our trip to Cabot Links that we made a couple weeks ago. Neil and Randy were with us as well. Neil is in New York and he's, who knows what he's doing today? Big Randy's on vacation, so it's just gonna be the three of us talking about Cabot and basically everything you need to know about it and what we thought of it.

So Big Randy's on vacation from his podcast, talking about his vacation. He's pure Michigan. So we went up to play the two days of golf at Cabot Links and Cabot Cliffs in the second week of July. First trip for myself, first trip for everyone that was not named DJ Pie. DJ, I want you, you wrote a story in the golfers journal about Cabot. So I think you're a resident Cabot expert

on all the background information about it and the setting and whatnot. So I was wondering if you could take us there and help tee up this place. I'm sure a lot of people listen to this have been there, but I'm sure also a lot have not. So take us there. Yeah, well, when the glaciers melted back

in the icy cheesecake. I was a, you were drawing me in the middle of the ice. I assume that's part of it, but my story doesn't quite go back that far, but more so in the town of Inverness, Nova Scotia. So Inverness is up in the northwest corner of the province of Nova Scotia, up on the west coast.

New Scotland. New Scotland. New Scotland, which is, you notice when you're there because you're driving through all the towns and they have names like Inverness and New Glasgow and all these different things. Oh, I'm just trying to piece in that together. There you have it. So Inverness is a very, very, very small town.

Up there was at its peak in its heyday, it was about 4,000 people. I was a little disappointed that they didn't have whiteness was one of the towns in Northern Scotland. I didn't see that one 4,000 people. I was a little disappointed that they didn't have whiteness. Was one of the towns in Northern Scotland. I didn't see that one up in New Scotland. I don't know. Yeah, we had still building towns.

We haven't been everywhere in Scotland. We got to check that out. But it was a coal mine. So it was like a lot of the towns up there. Coal mine up until the late 50s, I think, 1958. When that shut down, I mean, it's kind of a tale. Becoming a tale is older time a little bit. But when that shut down, I mean, it's kind of a tale, becoming a tale is old as time a little bit, but when that shut down, I mean, the whole town kind of ground to a bit of a halt. That was kind of the main employer and you know, like I

said, you've seen this kind of everywhere where these minds shut down or the big industrial or manufacturing jobs shut down in a town and then eventually, you know, the kids go away to college and they stop moving back and these things kind of slowly decay. And it's just this sad story that's kind of playing out all over the place. And so the same thing was kind of happening in Inverness. And not only that, but you had all this, you guys saw it. Obviously some of the most beautiful coastline that you can possibly see,

and it's all kind of covered, it was all unremediated mind-tailing. So it's just these gray gray mind-tailing like left over. And just, you know, I certainly wasn't there at the time, but not a tough scene, tough scene at the time. And so, with what I had heard about Inverness, I was expecting an even bigger town than what it actually is. Yeah. It didn't even look like a town to me, just kind of setting the scene for how small this

place really is. It's, yeah, it harkened back a little bit to the town I grew up in, is not a ton bigger. It was about 4,000 people as well, maybe a little bit more now, but when I was there, it was 3,000, 4,000 people, and it's very similar. We certainly didn't have the beautiful ocean or coal mines or anything like that, it was all corn fields, but.

I thought you were from Chicago, did you? No, guys, we don't have to re-igate this conversation. So, flash forward, or flash sideways, I guess, to a guy named Ben Cowan-Dewer, who is the owner of what became Cabot Cliffs and Cabot Links. And Ben was grew up in Canada, outside Toronto and was 25 at the time. And he had started his own kind of like golf travel company. So he's going around from, you know, booking trips for well off businessmen and golf travelers and stuff. And so through that had kind of seen much of the world's top 100 courses and had kind of

been all over. And I was a huge architecture buff as well. If people know golf club at list.com, he wasubatlist.com, I think one of the people who helped found that with Rand Morissette. And so through all of this and making some money on the travel stuff was kind of like, hey, I think I know how to... I've seen a lot of good golf courses. I'd like to try my hand at developing one, which I think he would be the first person to tell you

that's the ignorance of youth type situation. Like, yeah, I've played courses, like, no, I'm just gonna go build one. And it certainly wasn't as easy as he thought it was going to be. So he was at a dinner in Toronto, ended up running into the Canada's Minister of Tourism, I believe his name is Rodney McDonald. The guy was kind of, they get to talking about golf and Ben's like, oh, you

know, I'm kind of kicking around the idea of developing a course and the minister is kind of like, hey, I, you know, that got this perfect place up in Inverness, Nova Scotia. It's, it's absolutely, you know, perfect for a golf course. And Ben says is, you know, his reaction was kind of like no offense, but every farmer who has like 50 acres thinks it's the next far flung golf destination. And that, you know, I appreciate it, but like, let me go see it for myself.

And so obviously goes and sees it and falls in love with the place. And so it really starts like kind of kicking around the idea of actually like making this thing happen and piecing together the financing and doing all that. So of course, his first call is... Which to put into perspective though, it'd be almost us sitting around and being like, hey, we should like design.

We should like own a guy. Young, young guy. We've definitely never had that conversation. But to actually go do it is kind of important, I think, to put into perspective for such years. Of course. I think he kind of, you know, immediately the gravity of this project kind of settles in.

So his first call, you know, no surprise goes to Mike Kaiser, who had been wildly successful at doing this already, you know, through Band-In and Barn Bougal and Stream Song and places like that. And so he goes to Mike and kind of says, hey, this is what I want to do. And, you know, which side note, like imagine how many calls like that Mike Kaiser must get at this point, like if Ben's quote about,

you know, every farmer who has 50 acres, like imagine how many people are going to Mike Kaiser, like this is better than bandit. You have to come see it. So anyway, so he goes to him and Mike had just built, I believe trails, bandit trails in Barn Bougal and down in Tasmania and- Lost farm would have been at that time.

Yeah, so I think he was kind of, at that time was like, dude, I don't know if he says dude, but it was kind of like, yo, I'm a little long on a far-fall-ung destination golf right now, like keep me posted on how it goes. Sorry, that wouldn't have been lost farm, could it have been the Barn Bougal you were right? So I would love to help and like keep me posted on how it goes. I'm sorry, that wouldn't have been lost farm. The barn people you write. So, would love to help and just keep me posted, but there's not much I can do right now.

And so it took Ben basically like three years. So we've seen, you know, you can kind of piece together how this stuff works. It's not like you buy one chunk of land to do these courses. You basically, you have to go around to each farmer and each, you have to have a separate conversation, a separate negotiation and convince everybody and then eventually you can piecemeal enough land together to build a course. Which also to note, like most of the best quote-unquote links land in the world this day and age is if there's not a golf course on it, it's because it's protected doing this game skirmamentally, environmental landscape. So this is mostly property that people would want to develop on.

Similar to stream song, though, this being like unremediated land, basically, is kind of a... Yeah, there's only so much stuff you can do with it. Right. After. And so golf course is a good part of it. But so one of the other things that he had gathered talking to Mike was basically like, if you're going to do this, make sure you have enough land for two courses before you even start, because I think Mike, Kaiser's quote, was something like, you know, one is a one course of curiosity and two is a destination. And so, now Ben is trying to figure out like, okay, how do I get enough money and funding

and how do I handle all these negotiations for one course, let alone two courses. So it takes like three years. He eventually does it when he has all the land secured. This is early, probably 2007, something like that. Perfect. How many different parcels of land? That's a great question.

I don't know. We can take that offline. 16. No, nobody fact check. It was 32 pieces of land. But he goes back to Kaiser and he says, OK, if you've got all the land secured, I'm going to come see the site, loves the site, blah, blah. So he helps kick in the rest of the financing.

And off they go, right in mid 2008, perfect timing. As you said, so then we go. Obviously the financial crisis hits and they, to their massive credit, I mean, they kept going, they had enough funding and stuff to keep the project moving. I think at that time they were, gosh, they had to be one of, if not the only active golf course

project in the world, certainly on the very short list. That was the line in your golfers' journal story that stuck out the most to me. It was like almost kind of haunting of like when the bulldozers were going at Cabot Links, it was probably the only place where they were going on any golf course anywhere in the world. It's just wild. Yeah, it's out of that way. So very small crew of people, many friends of the, friends of the podcast that were out there working on it, Riley Johns and Keith Reb and Keith Cutten and people like that,

these kind of do it all, shaper guys that can kind of do a little bit everything. So they were out there working on that. And I think one of the most interesting parts about it if anybody's been to Cabot Links, which is obviously the first course that they built, is that that land was like pool table smooth, like dead flat land when they got there. This old mine was, it's not like it was rugged, it's not like it was all shaped or they're

finding golf holes out there. They had to pretty much do the whole thing from building in the sandbox and really figuring it all out, which I think kind of speaks to, it certainly doesn't feel that way, at least to me. I'm not the geologist or an architecture scholar, but when you're playing that, it feels very natural. It feels like it all kind of emanates from that one big dune in the middle of Cabot links where the 14th hole is.

You had said this to us when we were there and I had forgotten it until now. Like even though I'm knowing that, I had forgotten that it was like all not natural. Yeah, so I think the only other thing kind of worth mentioning on the backstory is, so Ben and his wife, Alie, moved there in 2008. They were in kind of downtown Toronto and ended up moving to Inverness, which like I said, was 4,000 people

when the coal mines were humming, I think it got down as low as probably a quarter of that, if I had to guess, as things were, you know, things that kind of just dropped out, like there just wasn't a lot to do in town, wasn't a lot to keep people there. There's a bunch of quotes, you know, when I was writing the story, I went and hung out as one does at the VFW up in Inverness and just heard a bunch of stories from guys who had been there forever and people are like, oh dude, you could, it's a very Trump quote. But yeah, you could shoot a, you could shoot a gun down Main Street and like you're not going

to worry about like hitting anybody like nobody's around. People would, they're like people would fly through here like they don't touch their brakes as they like, as they come through Inverness. Like they're off getting to, they're trying to get to somewhere else, they're trying to get to the end of the island or whatever. This is not a place you go. You just, it's not a destination. Yeah, and so Ben and Allie, you know, they move, they kind of wrap up all of their financing,

all of their stuff into this project and end up moving there in 2008. And Allie, his wife tells this great story, you know, about, she was 35 weeks pregnant at the time when they moved as well. And she tells this great story about how like she started crying like literally as they drove into town. She's like thought she said, I think her quote was like she felt like she was moving into witness protection program. So just to point out like, you know, you don't say that to like poke fun at the town or

anything, but just to point out like how remote it is when they do there. So eventually all the whole project gets off the ground and Cabot Links gets built by Rod Whitman and a crew of very talented contractors and off we are, off we're running. There we are. First golf course is Cabot Links, what year did it open? 2012. And then Cabot Cliffs opened

Probably three years after that. Okay. We'll start with we're gonna start we played them in this order. We played at Cabot Links and I think you know you touched on the kind of the setting and whatnot But I think the first feeling I got right on site as we got we get you pull up the rooms are Directly in front of you. Yeah. Looking right at the first toll. And as a restaurant looking, right at the 18th, even before that, what really stuck out to me when we first pulled in was the resort is right in the middle of the town. Exactly.

Which that's what I was going to say is you go to stream song or you go to band-in and I mean, it's it's remote. It's a remote road that you're on, first of all. And then you take turn the left On to this three mile road that like takes you back to the resort You know like you don't see another human being that's not the resort and whereas this is You could get a ball into the town if you really want to I mean you're you know one left is the ice cream shop or whatever in the next Left is into the resort, you know, it's really in the middle of it's awesome. I really enjoyed that I like that that kind of element of it, but then it's it's got this intimate feeling even

when you do go into the resort, pro shop and restaurant and bar kind of there in the middle and then all the all the rooms are off to either side, but it is straight all with the view of the course and the ocean. And so the last thing to say kind of about the town is I'm sure we're going to be golf with St. Lawrence. What is it? I always mess with the body. It's technically ocean. Yeah. It's a golf. The last thing kind of, you know, from a macro level, because I'm sure we're going to get very golf heavy after this, but it's really cool and interesting and heartwarming and complicated and all of those things to see

kind of what's happened to the town since the resort is there. Because now, like I said, when I'm not exaggerating and saying like there wasn't that much, there just wasn't places for people to work. There wasn't places for people to go. And we've seen that in a million different places. You see that in Band-In. We've seen it in Scotland in places and Ireland in places like these golf resorts, it might sound kind of flippant to say this, but they really have such an impact

on just the economy of these places. And that affects your experience too. Totally. Just people are like, I feel it at Band-In in certain places. Like, people are more excited to be there and working. It just seems like they're there. They know the function that golf has in the area and they want you to have a great experience

because, like, their business is tourism. And it goes beyond that, too, where it's like, you know, yes, people are working as caddies and people are working in the restaurants and people are working in the hotels and all of that stuff. But they're also opening breakfast spots and coffee shops and pizza spots and brewery

and, like, there's all these things going on. And on and so the knock if you're going to find like the pessimism is it in it is you know well these are a lot of these are seasonal jobs or temporary jobs and you know it's not there's no benefits and there's all that kind of stuff which I think is is sort of fair but at the same time it's like what's the alternative right you know like there's not a big factory that's know, like, there's not a big factory that's going to go in. There's not a big, you know, you're not reopening the minds. Like, the alternative is the town ceases to exist.

Yeah, and so it moves the Halifax. Yeah, so it's just a really, really interesting place. And honestly, I think it would be cool to go there, even if you just wanted to see the golf course. Like, if you're up on Cape Breton Island and you just wanted to drive through town and just see it, it's a very cool thing just to see. Yeah. Even if you're up on Cape Breton Island and you just wanted to drive through town and just see it, it's a very cool thing just to see. Yeah. Even if you're not playing golf. I'd go up there. I'll see if you should play it though. You should play for sure.

But if you're listening to this podcast, you'd probably be interested in playing it. But even if you're just like, it's an awesome vacation spot. Yeah, I mean outside of golf, I'd go vacation there, hiking, fishing, the warmest waters north of the Carolinas that everybody likes to keep saying. We didn't, it looked pretty freaking cold. Eating, copious amounts of lobster. Yeah. And yeah, I mean, so yeah, as soon as you're there, I mean,

it's just like, it's sick. Like the first view you have of it and you immediately just want to want to go play golf and it's got all the Kaiser touch and that the rooms are exactly what you want in somewhere to stay. It's not where you want to spend all your time while you're there. It's got warm beds, nice showers, everything you need. It's just all very welcoming and comforting and you feel at home almost immediately.

So, I think that, I forget who I was talking to for the story about this. I think it almost has more of a, I'm curious what you guys think, but it almost has more of a feminine quality to it. I almost think it feels more welcoming to wives and spouses and all of that kind of stuff. Just not that there aren't women there

to actually play the golf course as well. But, hey, the golf courses are, there's no force carries. They're all very, very playable for the ladies game. But also, there's just more stuff to do in town. And there's more, the restaurants are a little nicer. And like, the off course stuff I thought was a little more, a little more welcoming than if you were gonna go to bandin or which is obviously as good of a golf experience as you can possibly have.

I thought the non-golf experience here might be more conducive if you're trying to take a trip with a partner. It's got a couples trip vibe instead of a buddy's trip. Yeah, that's what I think about it. We feel like we saw a lot more couples there that they would have ever seen at band and which makes sense because it's, you know, you're closer to the east coast and you can get up there for a long weekend from New York or Boston. It was difficult to get there. We had to take from Jacksonville.

It was three flights plus a three and a half hour drive from Halifax. It is a remote location in the same way band and is, but it's... You can get there in two flights. Let's talk about the logistics of how you actually do it. So you basically have to fly into Halifax, right? Is there another small airport up there that's possible? Eventually, there might be one that's working on it. Well, there's another one called Sydney. Yes, that's what I'm thinking of.

It's not that close, it's like two hours away. But I was reading up on it, I guess once a year, somebody always shows up thinking that they bought a ticket and they show up thinking that they're flying to Sydney, Australia. That's amazing. So I, like a couple of years ago, it was a guy from Norway or Sweden, he shows up and he's like,

oh, I'm in there like no sir you're in Sydney. We got their way faster than I would have thought we would have. But the Rockies feel a rock here than this. So my big takeaway was Neil and I flew through Newark and the flight from Newark to Halifax was like we got out our laptops and they're like no you got to put those back away we're landing soon. It's like a 90-minute flight and you know right over the coast of Maine and I was blown away at how close it was as their crow flies.

Fun to know that there's a time zone east of the the Eastern time zone as well. That's how it's you's what I throw that is. Yeah, and then they will shuttle you between the airport and the resort. We got the ride the shuttle had a wifi on the van. That was nice. It is a long drive. It's a beautiful drive. It is.

It's nice drive. I would recommend it because it's hard to get to. So unless you're coming from New York or Boston or some northeastern city, it's tough to get there. It's a full day of travel. but if you can get there when the sun is up and you can actually see that drive, I've done that drive in the dark and I've done that drive in the light and the latter is a lot more interesting for sure. So we get to the golf.

I think it's about that time. Cabot links we teed off. First of all, this is our annual board meeting. So we went up and had a nice big meeting in the board room up there for about four hours and the morning sick board it was awesome uh... we teed off that afternoon at uh... at cabit links uh... who wants to start us with cabit all started uh... kinda eases yen short par five you know kinda reminded me of

you know a lot of the newer courses that you play. They just easy in with the get your way from the clubhouse. Yeah, a lot of the older courses. And you can, you know, pretty wide, you know, pretty wide fairway. You can send one up there. Big green that's pretty perceptive. Yeah, I mean, that one didn't really, didn't really knock my socks off or anything like that. What was your, what was your guys overarching thoughts on Cabot Links before we get too granular? So I'll, I think you're gonna have the most, well, I have a lot,

I think taking, well, I have a lot, a lot, a lot of qualifiers before I say anything about Cabot Links. Listen, listen, you know me, okay? You know me. So first of all, we've talked about the setting. Like there is, you absolutely cannot have a bad time on that property, like you just can't. Like it is so beautiful, I would go back immediately

and play this. This is the place, cabinet links is the place where I truly learned that I don't think I am personally capable of separating out a golf course from how I play. If I play really bad, I just don't feel like am personally capable of separating out a golf course from how I play. If I play really bad, I just don't feel like I get the experience. And we show up, and again, this isn't that important, but I just want to set the context before we say anything about the golf course.

My wrist started acting up, and I felt like I could barely hold a golf club, and I played absolutely horrendous this whole day. All that being said, plus realizing the hardest thing to probably translate is the fact that we got some of the most ridiculous pen positions you could imagine. Now I know what that probably sounds like, I can't imagine how douche that sounds like these guys are bitching about the pen positions at Cabot, but we got the greens are wild. The greens are insane and some of the pens we got were comical. To the point where I was like, dude, you should not have put a pen here. We'll get to the eighth hole is a par-five.

Someone's gonna hurt themselves. It was, it was dangerous. It was going ski slopes. It was, you could miss a putt, like a straight up the hill putt if you missed it to the right of the hole and hit it past the hole, like a foot, it would roll back into the hole. Like it was just, what just said?

Well, it was, it was just like comical. And there was four putts, five putts going on. So all that being said, I felt like I walked off and I was just a little bit confused by it. You were part of the butt hurt nation. I was very open to it. I was trying to understand it, but I was like, I didn't feel immediately blown away by Cabot Links.

Which, first of all, a lot of this can be summed up by, you shouldn't play golf that well to begin with, because I never play well. And then my score never dictates how I feel about the golf course. So I would recommend that. I'd recommend getting worse. And then I think you won't be so wrapped up in how you play. But I don't think I was like that wrapped up in it.

I just felt like I was like, I'm not sure I'm getting it because I'm so all over the place. That's true. That's my overall point is that like, I don't know that I got the experience, so I don't know if any of the stuff is on it. That's the looking back and the more I reflect on it. And I think we had a long talk with Keith Kutten and Keith Reb and just, you know, like

these guys after we played it and I feel like that kind of unlocked some of the magic of it, where part of the reason it's maybe a tougher course to get to know is because there is so much going on with the greens and there's probably 30 different holes within each one of these holes. Yeah. Where, you know, like if they change the pin from even, you know, even 15 feet away from the pin location you had yesterday, it's going to be a completely different hole. And that, like, that conversation we have with Keith afterward was like, oh, yeah, you're right. Like, oh, yeah, you're right. And for everyone that is in those guys that have worked on it and that are local and that have played these courses more times than you can imagine, they favor links over cliffs. And that, and what the more he, like talked about, and we're going to

get into cliffs, of course, but cliffs is kind of hits you with that wild factor, but on the repetitive nature, it gets not that interesting to play over and over again, whereas Links is different every single time. And I was like, oh, yeah, that's probably true. Talking to Keith was almost like, when you watch a movie or a TV show or a read a book or listen to an album or something,

and you're like, you just totally, it all goes over your head. And you're like, yeah, and I thought that was like, kind of cheesy, how they did it. And it's like, it's actually like a metaphor for the fall of the Soviet Union. You're like, yeah, and I thought that was kind of cheesy. How they did it and it's actually a metaphor for the fall of the Soviet Union. You're like, fuck, I didn't realize that. It's like drinking a bottle of wine with a line maker.

Yeah, which hole was the metaphor for the fall of the Soviet Union? All of them. Yeah, all of them. No, it's interesting and it's kind of a double-edged sword. And I think Neil pointed this out, and I think we've talked about this with regards to other destinations as well as so many of these places are,

like literally it's bucket lists, once in a lifetime type of trips. And that's what I want the perspective on that to be like. For sure. What I'm coming from is obviously we've been really fortunate to play a lot of insane places. Well, I don't even, I don't even mean it like that. I just mean like on one hand,

so for you to walk off that course and feel that way, I don't blame you for failing that way at all That's totally fine because I know you know all of us kind of felt that to a degree, I think But what sucks is if that's the only time you're gonna ever play that course. Exactly. It's hard to it's hard to feel that way But on the flip side of that The conversation that we have in the pub and if people do take that next step to like think things through and Really let it kind of grow on you. I think that in all of a sudden, it's like, fuck, that's like the ultimate marketing tool.

Because now, since we left, I'm like, God, we gotta go back. I missed so much about this golf course in blah, blah, blah. And all I'm thinking about now is wanting to go back. And so does that happen for everybody? Like, probably not. And I think that was your point. That's a pretty high barrier for people to try to clear.

Whether we got at Cliffs too, that we got the Cliffs experience is what I felt like. And I don't feel like we got the full links experience. I think all of us were kind of like, dude, I kind of want to like another crack at that. I want to see it. I think with links, because one of the things that blew me away

about building golf courses up there, is like, they don't, it's not very sunny for that long during the year. So to grow grass there has to be exceptionally challenging. But you know, talking to those guys up there, like, it sounds like August, September, once you get a little bit more heat and a little bit more long, sunny days, because that was the other thing with links. It sounds like it's more dependent upon the conditions and all that. So if it's a little bit more burned out,

but the other thing was just, I loved having two courses. I felt like you could dig in. And I suppose you could start different. Startling different too. Yes. But at banding, you almost feel like you're a little bit stretched then, because you're just trying, you know, even if you play all four of them,

you're probably playing them just twice. You're playing one of them three times maybe but you could really dig in and kind of get to know Each of these courses, but for me I think with links if I had 30 rounds to play And I had to choose between the two I'd play links if I had three rounds to play I'd play close Yeah, that's that's kind of I put that in the story too, but that that's like the quote that you hear from a bunch of people up there is, you know, if I was gonna split 10 rounds, I'd play eight of them on links, but if I was gonna die tomorrow, I'd play Cliffs. For sure.

And it's interesting, like when we walked off the golf course and it almost feels like not patronizing, but you hear from all of the locals, you know, when they heard us kind of say like, would you, all right, you played them both, what do you think? And a lot of us were kind of like, oh, like Cliffs kind of blew it away for us, at least like our experience. And you just see them smile and they're just, yeah, all right, well, like you just haven't

played them enough. Like you'll get it eventually, but like, yeah, you're just, go keep playing them. And you'll realize eventually, like, links is way better. Which is, which is like, I'm not, I'm on one side of the other there, but it's just interesting to hear. Overwhelming, like, almost unanimous praise for it. Links felt like barm-bougal dunes, and Cliffs felt more like gloss farm.

Yeah. Well, yeah, yeah. But back to the point on the pins, though, is I feel like because of Cliffs, or because Links, for all the reasons you just said, links is like super interesting to continually play because of all the cool little different ways you could play it. I felt like it, we almost got like the hardest way

to play it on each one. And we just didn't get, like the second holds of part three is a Beirots, which like, I didn't even notice that it was a Beirots until we got up to the green because we had the front pin on that one. 17th of part three, we we got a super up front pin which is like the backlet.

That would've been awesome. And so again, I can't imagine how petty it sounds to like complain about the pins, but and we're gonna get to get, again, more on cliffs, but I feel like, and maybe it's just because I've played way more core crenchal golf courses, but when I get to their greens, I feel like I can look at them and be like,

oh, they were envisioning a pin here, they're envisioning one here, they're envisioning one here. And I felt to their greens, I feel like I can look at them and be like, oh, they were envisioning a pin here They're envisioning one here, they're envisioning one here and I felt like on links Like they really souped up those greens, but I would imagine like when they built this little section of it They weren't thinking all right pin it right here. This is gonna be awesome It was almost like all right. We're gonna do something crazy here today Let's put it here and we just got a ton of those and it was I know was, I don't know. Cliff's is a bunch of long, broad, very gentle slopes and links is like, if you just crumpled up a piece of paper and you know, kind of smoothed out,

maybe a couple little spots, what otherwise. It's interesting like on the pins thing, which I agree, like I can't imagine what that probably sounds like. You've been there more than once. Exactly, that's how I was gonna say. You had different experience. That's my point.

And that's what I think, I know it's convenient for the resort to say this, but you have to play it more than once. You have to play it on different days. But that's why, if we had another day, I would love to play links again. Cliffs, I liked Cliffs more, but I would rather play links to them.

So we only played two days, but I think if we had to do all over again too, we would play, we played Links and then we played another nine on Links or almost another 18 on Links that same day. Instead, we should have switched them and played Links and then Cliffs that afternoon. Yeah, I think the play is to play 36. Play both courses, both days or there, or spread them out over three days or whatever. But yeah, to your point, like, when I was there,

I was there in, when was that, like, last October, I think? Walking off, you know, playing with you guys and whatever and walking off and people being like, got the greens or like, they're like too much. I was like, fuck, I didn't even, that never crossed my mind the entire time I was here last time. And I think it just, it really does speak to the pins and how just different that makes

the experience, which some people like that, I don't know. It also speaks to how freaking hard it is, like, marry all of these elements. Tell it right, because you got to make it interesting. And it should be interesting, but like, so I don't even put that on anybody that designed the course. And again, I don't want to like blame the superintendent that day, but it's like everything marrying up together is really, really, really difficult to do. That's what impresses me the most about how often like, dough, cans, and core crenshaw, like

nail it, is like a difference in slope of like 1.8% versus 2% can have the biggest impact. Like, if it doesn't play the way like you intended it to, and that's what it felt like for a little bit of our day at links. And I know we got a weird wind at links too, but it just felt like everything wasn't really all in sync at the same time. Yeah, it's just it's cool to be able to, it was actually cool to be able to feel that way,

and then to be sitting in the bar later and going back over him and being like, oh gosh, yeah, if this would have changed or if this would have changed, or if the wind was coming here, if this ran out to here, like you said there's 30 holes inside of each hole, it's just really cool.

And Tita Green, the place was absolutely sick. I thought, I mean, it was awesome. We can go through some of the holes too, but I mean, the third and fourth holes were, I think the third and fourth holes, that's the best two hole stretch on the entire property, on links, like three is this short, that's the best two hole stretch on the entire property on links like three is this short, you know, it's 320 yard bunker list par four bunker list

Like a mound on the left side of the green Hazard all up the right. If the winds come in other right direction, you can fly the green But just super great risk reward. You can literally hit anything off the tee that you want. I love stuff like that where the, almost feels like stream song or something where there's one dune kind of like in front of the green that's only, you know, whatever, 10 feet high, 12, 15 feet high, something like that. And it just dictates like the entirety of the whole.

And you don't need bunkers, you don't need water, you don't need anything to really like feel it. You just, that dune exactly where you want to be and how easy your second shot's going to be, which is great. And then I thought four was one of the top, you know, three best holes in the entire property. Just a handsome ass part for.

So I didn't get the center line bunker. And I know we, you know, we're all so really in book room. But it was, you get up there and it looks so much different from the tee than it does from the fairway. And you get up there and it looks so much different from the tee than it does from the fairway. And you get up there and you're like, wait, all of that is dictated by this one bunker because it looks like the bunkers are right in a row and you got nowhere to hit it. And then you get up there and it's wide open. Well, that's what...

To your point on the centerline bunker thing, what makes them so interesting is, it's just way more intriguing to have a really wide fairway, but not being able to hit it right in the middle because it makes you have to make decisions, right? I mean, a golf hole that just has bunkers on the outside of the fairway, like I know the question is like, hey, where should I hit it?

And it's directly between them. Where as the centerline bunker makes you think, like all right, if I wanna take it in this left portion of it, it's a little smaller, but I'm gonna have a way, way better angle at the green. And out at a golf course like this with firm turf and firm greens, the angles really, really do matter. So like this whole chess match, you know, you're kind of working from the green backwards. It's more appealing to go right, but I hit it and I hit it over there and I got done.

I was like, whoa, this is not the right place to be. And then the green, there's a sharp fall off on the right side. There's these two bunkers in front, one back left. And it's just a, it's a remarkable fall. Another highlight are the, uh, both the eighth and the 13th holes play in the same direction and share the same green, just a massive, massive green. These, I think these were our two craziest pin positions. So I did affect our play there, but those were like two of my favorite holes out there,

especially the 13th of par four, very blind T-Shot, a little rock to hit over, had very real county down vibes, and just a super mega wide fairway that you can come in from any spot you want and go into this huge massive shared green. I love that hole is awesome. And the sixth was, I think that's one of the,

they would probably say one of their signature holes with the, it's this long k-pole, you got all the lobster boats and, you know, kind of a little harbor over on the left. And then, it was a tough carry, especially with the wind we had. Again, we had this wind out of the, was that the northwest that really kind of precluded some of the, yeah, it was not the prevailing win the first day. That one reminded me of Ireland quite a bit. Going back to the double green a bit,

we don't wanna undersell what a dope, like the green is literally a hundred yards wide. Yeah. It's like, it is, especially on a day where you have, if you have the wind blowing, like whipping across and you can hit it in a bad spot, I mean you can literally have a two or three hundred foot put. Which we had a guy, which is awesome.

When we were playing 13 the second time, there was a guy that was playing eight, ended up playing to our pin, and we're like waving at him in the fairway, we're like, yo, other pin! And he's like, look at that, it's so windy out there, you couldn't really communicate. Like, no, other pin!

I do think it would have been maybe even better hole if you play if you used to be very sad. Cross country, I agree agree. We wanted to do that but there was another group coming up behind him. But so what did you guys think about the par threes at links? I thought they're great. I mean that's kind of where I was a little bit conflicted. I thought the fours and fives were awesome. The par threes were I thought five was spectacular. It's kind of a downhill. Downhill one almost plays down to this little like cove or lagoon type thing that branches off of the bay. Really wild green. Tron doesn't like it because I hold like a 40 footer from off the green to win the hole. Seven was, I didn't really like seven very much. There's some cool like chocolate drop mounds up

but the tea but otherwise it didn't. Yeah, I was kind of capture me kind of a I don't know it felt disconnected disconnected or forgettable or whatever 14 I thought was really cool or 14. Yeah, yeah, so both courses have these short you know, you know kind of postcard little holes. Yeah, it's a hundred yards typically plays straight down winds It's just really really hard to stop it straight out to the goal straight. Yeah, it's 100 yards. Typically plays straight down wind, so it's just really, really hard to stop it. Straight out to the goal. Straight out to the goal. Yeah, it's beautiful for sure.

Like it's the most gorgeous kind of part of the property on links, because you're up on top of this dune, which again, like if you picture this whole thing as being a completely flat site, it's, you're built up on top of this 30 foot dune or whatever that you're hitting, you know, hitting down 50 feet or something like that Down to the screen and I don't know. It's not the most spectacular part three ever played

But it's it's fun. I think it's really fun to hit those shots Well, I guess just knowing that they like man made this dune out of it It just felt a little too cute for me as I think where I land and it just it wasn't It's cool like a little 95 yard pitch shot down the hill, but there just wasn't that much intrigue. Again, not to go back to this, but it might have been the pin we got that day, but we had like a front little pin. It just didn't seem like there was a ton of, there wasn't much to the shot.

Like a really short part of three, I think are some of the most brilliant holes because of the like the thought process you got to go through to, you know, make sure you can't miss it here. If you miss it here, you are so dead, blah, blah, blah, and it just felt like I didn't really have that element to it. Yeah, there's that bunker front, right, too. And I felt like you're just, all right, cool.

I'm just trying to keep it out of this bunker and get it on the ground. I love nine. I thought nine was like this. Well, in the Part Three, I thought 17, the last one. 17 was cool. I thought that was the best hole. Or the best part three in the property. I thought like the last one. 17 was cool, I thought that was the best hole. Or best part three in the property.

I thought like the green again, like our pin was, I was kind of like, up in like, just one pace off the front, but it's just massive, massive green with all these different tiers. And it's kind of sort of blind, depending where the pin is, kind of sort of visible. It's just like a barrel roll in front of it.

Yeah, and it was just really severe. Spectacular green that I wish we had kind of gotten to see a little bit more of, but I think that one's awesome. I think nine was this, it's a part four, it's only like 350. And I think when it probably burned, that one's probably much more interesting in August or September when it's super firm and fast.

You know, kind of a blind tee shot, you hit over this ridge, and again, you can hit anything from four iron to driver, but then you gotta worry about getting it too close. There's some bunkers kind of scattered along. And that's a good example of one of the holes where you could play it 10 days in a row and depending upon where the pin is and where the tee is,

you're gonna get 10 different holes. Yeah, exactly. And I think it's definitely one of the wildest greens. Like that was another pin placement that was, if you missed by six inches, you were rolling off the front of the green or rolling off the side or whatever. But I think it's one, also,

you don't realize the first time you play, like, okay, shit, this kind of almost shares a fairway with one. And if I really wanted to, I could probably, like, now all of a a sudden it's 130 yard wide fairway. And all of a sudden it's like, you know, if the pin is jammed over way on that left, I can almost hit it out in the first fairway

and like have a better angle and a better chance of holding the green. And yeah, there's just a million different ways that it can change. And that's kind of a hint to what Keith was telling us to of like all the things that get unlocked when it really gets going firm And like in the middle of summer and all the different ways that you that you would could I in theory play it and tens the blind drive

Not nine. Nine's yeah, nine's the super wide one 10 10 was like another one It's it's almost 400 yards from the tips, but you could probably get it up there close Yeah, it's not that one when it gets firm that it's like yeah yeah, you got to think about how you can keep it in that fairway and what's shot shape you need to hit and where the wind is going and all that stuff. I think the green almost like, it kind of feels like you're going to come around to this dude and see like the most spectacular green in the world. And it's pretty average like looking green. It's just kind of outrun in the middle green a little bit.

But yeah, I think that one would have a lot more intrigue if it was firm too. So let's talk 11. Here we go. I know this one. I love this whole. I need Neil here for me. This shit reminded me of like, Bally Bunyan. And like, it was awesome.

There's these, it's just long par five, longest par five on the property, I think, about 600 yards. The fairway can't stand to the right, and then it goes back up to a plateau and then there's another plateau beyond that with the green. And there's these probably five bunkers down the right side that it feeds into these bunkers and then the fairway pinches in very, very, very dramatically. The bottom is hill and it's still, you know, probably 20 yards wide at the bottom,

but it was definitely one of more polarizing holes of the trip. I know Sally and Neil had some thoughts on it. The people who hit it in the fairway, I thought it was great. The people who missed the fairway, I thought it was shitty. Well, let me be clear about one thing here.

Like, I would be clear. Let me be clear. I wasn't anywhere close on this day. I got, so Neil hit like a good drive and it went through the fairway into, and he lost his ball on the left side. Neil had problems with distance- He did a little bit, maybe that's not a good drive.

Well, Neil hit a great drive into the shit. TC was riding the middle of the fairway. I was getting the middle of the fairway. We're gonna get there on this, okay? I was like duck hook. My criticism of this whole does not come from like, I hit two great shots and it didn't work out. I duck hooked it, like I was like duck hook. Like so my criticism of this whole does not come from like, I hit two great shots and it didn't work out. Like I duck hooked it.

Like I was nowhere near. I think so to this point, the whole kind of pinches in and goes down like T.C. was saying, but you're still like 275 out to the point where it pinches in. So, and if you lay back from there, you're gonna be like on a down soap and have no real chance to go at the green.

So my whole thing was like, it's a par five, you're not entitled to go. I'm not saying you don't find it. You don't let me, you never have let me finish the actual take. Every single time we've done this, I'm not saying you should be entitled to go for it. I'm saying, all right, if you wanna make a whole, at that point, the shot is risky enough

from the second shot. If you get down to like, if you're 250 out, like it is a risky shot to try to hit it at the green. So I like the idea of like enticing a player that can hit it far into trying to go for it. There's no real reason to actually go for it. It was my entire point. Like if the hole's a three shot hole

and I'd have to play it a lot more times to like really learn like how to play it, but to me it's like a three shot hole. It's like a driver's not to play off the, and I have no real reason to actually go for it. That's the whole point. I disagree with that, because I think even if you lay back, you've got plenty of room up there to the left, short left of the green, to where you've got that super wide landing

area for the second shot. If you want to lay up, or you can go up and there's those three bunkers up the left but if you keep it right at those and keep it left of the kind of that valley, it's like a 300 yard shot uphill. Like it's not. It wasn't. Maybe it's two, seven, three from this first bunker. Maybe because we played two, seven, three to the green. So you're talking, it's like two, two thirty, two forty to get up to where you need to be. Like you just hit a, that's, that's, but that's already driving into the part that narrows. But that's what I'm saying.

Like that's why I think it's cool. Like, so I hit driver there. I hit probably the best driver of the day. And granted we played, I forget, whichever T we played, it was like up whether it was green or whatever. I think we're on green at the, but I, I hit it into the narrow part and I had a five wood like to the green. Like it was, if, if you hit it in the skinny part and I had a five wood like to the green like it was If if you hit it in the skinny part like you can absolutely get there. Did you get on? I pulled it like pin high life

Okay, I don't hit it very far. Yeah, I don't hit it very far like it is possible What do you think you're playing the silver tees? I was playing the green tees. I think I just also I think there's a lot of drive 340 yards No, listen I hit a driver in a five-foot pin high. So whatever Tia was playing, that's what happened. And it's downhill, I mean, it's gonna... It plays way downhill and it's... Off the tee, but then your second shot is up.

So like this. But Neal's point and where Neal's argument was, was if you're trying to hit it in that tiny, and it's tiny relative, it's like you said, it's 20 yards, but it's almost like a funnel, like everything kind of feeds into that. If you hit the right's, tiny is relative. It's like you said, it's 20 yards, but it's almost like a funnel, like everything kind of feeds into that. If you hit the right spot, 50 yards back, it's going to run.

30-hits. Yeah, it's gonna run down into that spot. And Neil's point was, if you miss it right, it's a lost ball. If you miss it left, you're up in the, in the heather and the shit, and like, it might be a lost ball out there. Which I don't totally, totally disagree.

I'm sure that that stuff is thicker than they would like it up there. But also, if you're trying to hit it, if you're trying to hit it as far as you can in the smallest spot possible, yeah, there should be some risk to doing that. And I think it was very fun and very, it's admittedly super fun for me to hear you and Neil.

But this is stupid, I can't just hit dry, I know that's not what you're saying. That's what Neil's saying. That's what Neil's saying. That's what Neil's saying. No, Neil wasn't saying that either. Like you're saying, I shouldn't lose my ball on both sides. Like no, yes, you shouldn't hit it there.

And this is very scummy. You're not even telling the full story where you guys were on the T-Box. You're like Neil, I don't think this is a driver here. Oh, it says parts should be. It says parts should be. I already got it out. And he fucking loses his ball. And it's like, this is dumb, I shouldn't lose my ball. The here. Oh, it says parts should. It says two light iron to got it out. And he fucking loses his mall.

It's like, this is dumb, I shouldn't lose my mall. The other thing is there's a, like I think there's a lot more going on with the second shot. You can hit three or four different shots for the layup. Like you can go way up the right, like you got to hit a good golf shot. It's not just like, oh cool, like I'm,

I'm biting time for the third shot. I'm just, you know, I'm just trying to advance at 140 yards. Like, no, you gotta hit a premium golf shot out there. And the green is cool too, the way it can't send it, almost kind of like reverse redan type slope that you can use up there if you are hitting one in there. To Neal's point, his left ball, I think he's, he was fine with getting punished for it.

He's like, I just wanna be able to find the golf ball. Right, which I agree that they probably should. That stuff is so hard to keep that thin but punishing, but not lose it and not have it get too overgrown. That's a really hard balance to manage. We might have been playing different teas on this whole, because I remember it is very, it's just all very different. But again, it's like I would love to play it again.

I just felt like I'm totally fine with, fine with, holds taking driver out of your hand, and I don't think everything should be, it should be a clear risk reward to it. And I felt like if I was to play it again, I would hit iron off that tee, and I'd be hitting it somewhere up the left to try to hit a third shot on. And it's like, my overall point too,

is like, there's so many features there that are really punishing that if I have like a 220 shot at this green, like it is a risk reward shot. Totally. And like is not a guarantee, it's not an easy birdie and in no way do I think that that's how it should be. But it's like the elements are there to be like, all right, you can bail left if you want,

it's not gonna be an easy up and down. And if you miss right, you're gonna be down a cavern pitching 80 yards back up the hill. That is sweet. And tie me into that though. That's what I was going to say though, is like I think it isn't just looking at the whole like it, it's an easy par. You know, like there's the fairways 70 yards while I do whatever.

The longest toughest par five on the layup. The layup is like easy if you're trying to play to that easy layup spot and then the green is pretty massive. Listen, I'd love to play it again. But the point is like all of us made bogies and doubles doubles and all that stuff because we were trying to go for it I think I was out of the hole. I was good. I duck hooked it like I had nothing to do with how I played the whole so Going through just more I thought 13 was really cool another centerline bunker, you know, make your jokes That was that was the one the chair degree. I was one of was the green with eight. That was that was one of the more wild, like even that half of the green.

That was one of the ones that was the nuts, you know, the crazy pen. And then, you know, 15, you're playing down to the north along the golf. Really, really cool, cool green up there. Some greenside bunkers kind of set into the hill there. You got to hit a really good second shot in there. And then 16 again just farther down the coast, long par four. That was a pretty demanding hole. That one. Those two reminded me a lot of band and yeah. Like a Pacific to like the 13th. The Pacific kind of stretching out there. Yeah. 17. I think we talked about briefly, and then 18 was, 18 was almost horrible.

That tells a scene of what happened on the 18th green to Neil. Well, so 18, the golf hole itself is, I thought really spectacular. I mean, it's crazy, crazy wide. You can drive it up the left to get a great angle at the green. You can blow it 150 yards right, and have a little bit tougher angle to kind of a thinner angle to the green.

And then you've got the restaurant and the bar. So everything just looms over this 18th green. And everything in your power is just trying not to hit it left, and it just attracts every golf ball over there somehow. And so the screen, I don't know if it necessarily pitches right to left, but there's just a massive drop off on the left hand side that just funnels all these balls, basically down and right in front of the window where the cab at bar is.

And so everybody's in there sitting, everybody there has already gone through the hole, which is like a fun thing where, you know, you've already like either made double or made birdie or you've got your own context when you're sitting in there and so that you can just spend the rest of the day watching other people try to get it up and down. And so people are sitting in there in the bar and just drinking and watching and you feel like you're in like a zoo for a minute, you know, because everybody's looking at you and you get the restaurant upstairs. There's super mean spirited back left. So you can hit it. You're just hitting it like there's a lot of people around. It feels like you're in like almost a stadium or something when it's kind of lunch time

or dinner time. And so we were going back around and we played 18 and then we went and played nine more, kind of like a all-, scotch four sums. With our caddy, Neil. Yeah, and so as well, another Neil. So Neil and Neil were paired together and Neil, the caddy, kind of hits it, you know, pin high left, couldn't wear, you know, 60% of the people hit it. And so Neil Schuster is standing there and it's like,

there's like five carryovers and it's like a big hole, you know, whatever, we're not playing for like a lot of money or anything, but there's some fun tension in the air. Like everybody's trying to get it up and down for par and force another carryover and another hole. So Neil's standing there, going through all his paces. First of all, he like, I think it was Randy and I just there's nobody behind us So

Neil's like right up against the building so we make him go through the full slugger white drop two T's in the ground Two club likes making shit. Where's your nearest point of relief that ball is now in play? The atrix for the people that are watching complete theatrics. So this is next level grand stopping. That's a great clubhouse stopping. That's exactly right. You can't speak on this topic anymore after you banked it off the grandstand to Pro Am. So I landed a pin-eye there. So Neil, it's total theatrics.

And so everybody in the bar now, all of a sudden, he's like, whoa, what's going on here? These guys must be playing for some big money. So Neil takes his drop. He's getting ready to hit his shot. Tension, you can just cut it with a knife and takes his club back and all of a sudden you just hear, like this guy just bangs on the window,

right in Neil's ear, right as he takes, right as he takes the club back, all of us just fucking die laughing, except for Neil who throws up an immediate middle finger to the entire bar. He had a pretty good shot. He had a great shot. Really good shot.

I thought he was like kind of fake mad at it. No, he was like actually upset about it. He didn't shut up the rest of the trip. He's still talking about that guy. Man, that was bullshit. That guy, that was bullshit. That was bullshit. Most dash guy, man.

He doesn't know what we're playing for. We could've been playing for $1,000. Like he doesn't know. Well, he works. It's like, yeah, we worked. It was really fun. It was objectively very fun. And then these guys, so we end up tying that hole.

We went to a chip off. These guys called me a scumbag. We're in the chip off. I pulled a hybrid for sure. And we won. Yeah. That's cozy. I thought it was great.

You were my partner. Yeah. I supported it fully. Well, Neil was not, refused to participate in the chip off because of you still mad about the guy banging on the window. So, so let's, let's do your, your one word to describe Cavit links. Date, Deleon. I don't even know what that means. It's not a word. Yeah, it is. I believe it's a way. Jason, know. Jason Dalyan. It's like ingeniously or cunningly designed, artistic, ingenious, intricate, skillful.

What a compliment. Yeah. Yeah, it's just like I need, I feel like I feel inadequate to based on my experience to really judge the course, you know, playing it one and a half times. Yeah, that's why mine was perplexing. Yeah. It's like I felt like I haven't solved this yet.

I haven't really fully, yeah. And again, I felt this way about the old course two times after playing it like, yeah, I mean, okay. And the third time I was like, oh, shit. Now I see it. So that may be the case, but I'm perplexed to this point. And I would absolutely love, love, love the chance to see it again.

I had academic. I thought it was, it, love the chance to see it again. I had academic, I thought it was, it requires some study, requires you to do your homework a little bit. You gotta make big, you're better off. You gotta be decisive. Can we again just set the scene for baseline? Like if, you know, in my mind, honestly,

and as much as I don't wanna do it, I'm like comparing this to bandin. Like it's, the setting is very similar, right? It's the first thing you think of when you see it. So that's like the baseline. If you've like never been to bandin. The setting is very similar, right? It's the first thing you think of when you see it. So that's like the baseline. If you've never been to bandin or never been to cat, you're gonna walk off this course and be like, dude, that was some of the most fun 18-

that was a golf I've ever played. That's what, yeah, it's all relative. It's all relative. Even when we were kinda talking about the pins and whatever, it's you walk off and it's like, how was it? Well, you know, it was okay. Like it was whatever. I hope it was the same.

It was the same. I mean, it was still like, you know, it's like one of it was, I hope it was whatever. I mean, it was still, like, you know, it's like one of the 20 best quarters I've ever played in my life. But like, you know, it was just, it was okay. It can't be overstated to how you're on the West Coast. So you're getting this sunset. Yeah. There's some of the best sunsets I've ever seen. Yeah. Late, too. We were ready to move to Cabot Cliffs. Let's do it. So the main reason why I'm very comfortable with the way I've described and talked about Cabot Links is I know the feeling I had when I walked off Cabot Cliffs and I know it was a very different feeling. Like I don't think I'm imagining it. And it was like, okay, that was that was the kind of experience I was looking for because initially Cabot Links to Me was like, okay, it's like Bannon, but probably not quite as strong. And Cabot Cliffs was like Bannon Trails

and Pacific Dunes merged into one. Like Bannon Trails, but on the coast, with spectacular views. And I was like, whoa, this is unique, this is something I have not ever seen before. Yeah, I think it's just, I don't say this as a slight or anything, but to the everyday resort guests, it's just like easier to understand why you like it, you know,

where its cabinet links is like, like I said, like nobody would expect anybody to sit and have the conversation in the bar, you know, breaking down the intimate details of each hole and why it's good and why it's bad and blah blah blah. Like, I realize how snobby that sounds. I promise it's super fun and I would encourage you to do it. But I realize that that's a tall ask for a lot of people. Whereas Cabot Cliffs, I think it's just so much easier to be like, dude, it's just the 16th hole, man. Like you hit it right over the cliff and like I've never seen anything like that in 18.

You're right next to the ocean and it's awesome. It's a cool part five and I made a birdie and I blah, blah, blah. And it's just, it's a lot more accessible, I guess. I think the feeling that you're left with after playing cliffs would be kind of a sense of amazement or astonishment or like you're reveling in the experience versus after links. It would be more of a sense of accomplishment. Yeah. I think that's, I think that's what I said.

And again, like I don't want that to sound like a backhanded compliment or anything. I don't even know, even through all of this, we can get to our 10-holes. But I still don't even know which one I prefer to play. But it's just really interesting to think of those two differences and how each one makes you feel and how it makes the everyday guest feel

versus the architecture, not versus the person who's never played versus the person who will come back every year and all that stuff's interesting. Well, I want to go through to like all the advantages that Cliffs has, which is links. One huge one being it's way easier to have the second course, like at a resort like this. I mean, I think Pacific Dunes a lot not. I prefer band and dunes to Pacific dunes, but most almost everyone else prefers Pacific to abandon. That was the second course. Just the advantage of all the lessons learned from that first one.

And two, it has a much, much, much more dramatic land. And it was the originally the site that Kaiser wanted to build the first course on, but Ben Cowan-Dewer had an agreement with the city that what eventually became Cabot Links would be the first golf course. So yeah, this is just a better site for golf. It's more, you can be more imaginative with it,

more creative with it. And to the advantage of also going second, they got pretty screwy with the, I mean, not screwy, but like unique with the routing. Like, it's six par-fives and six par-three. It's like that immediately is fun to me. Like six chances at par-fives. Like, it's just a cool variety. If's like that immediately is fun to me. Like six chances at Part five. Like it's just a cool variety.

If you do that on the very first course, I just don't know if you have that kind of freedom to do something like that. So all that considering it adds up into, and this is where I'm hoping that, I mean, obviously I knew that it was a core credential course. I'm hoping my love and appreciation for them doesn't like make me have fun before I already

tee it up on it. Or give them two preconceived notions. Yeah, or give them too much, I guess. The CNC music factory. Yeah, I mean, it's like, as soon as you play, like, oh, this is number four at Bandit Trails. Oh, this is a good way. Yeah, the best.

It's like not a template. It's like, oh, this little feature reminds me of something else They've done and it all just works so well together and I just walked off being most impressed with that golf course of any other Core crenchalls I think I've played including lost farm. Yeah, I mean just the set that setting was just that was nuts man like that night We got and like all that some of those fun shots on the back nine. That was that was idyllic So so talking about the holes, one pretty similar start, right? Like you go south and then you, you know,

you're basically kind of a wide open, par five that inviting green and two was, I think we got all agree two is probably the, I think two is the best of the 36 holes. Yeah, I think it's just absolutely phenomenal in every possible way. I could, like that's one of the holes where you could drop, you could drop a bucket of balls and like play that hole all day.

Cause you play like eight different ways. Yeah, I mean, it's like to just, if you haven't seen it, the fairway is literally, I think 120 yards wide, but it is a force case. So you're hitting downhill off a big hill to this wide fair. The hole's only about 330, 350 yards. Maybe it's like the ocean. You've got your forest up the left,

this marsh down to the right. But the fairway is really wide, but it also ends. And there's this marsh hazard area that you definitely don't want to hit it in. It's almost shaped like a y. Yeah, with two kind of fingers of the fairway that kind of go in opposite directions and shape around this giant dune. And the green sits up on a hill with what I believe they call the Franken dune, which sits...

Yeah, a friend of mine who was working on it was like... I was saying the same kind of thing. I was like, what's the... This is so cool how you guys use this dune to just like inform this whole entire golf hole and it wraps around it and comes back like basically the fairway goes out in a y and then the green is kind of like a y in reverse. So you can play it out to the right and have a shot around to the right of the dune. You can play around to the left of the dune

but I was like, God, that's so cool that you used that dune that way. Like, oh yeah, that was, we built that, that was all. None of that was there. So that's just a big frankin, and then we just built it. Just massive false front on the right side of the den. But like, your instinct is when you see on that tee, it's like, oh, it's so wide, I just want to hit it

down the middle, because like going to the right, it's like a more of a forced carry and a little narrower strip. And you totally can't hit it down the middle. It's just like, totally blind. Totally blind on your next shot, or you can take it down the right and have a great look at the pin.

And just, that hole is just phenomenal. I mean the elevation changes in it and I just it sets the it sets the tone very early Like this is kind of what you're in for yeah, yeah, it sets a tone of like hold man I don't think I've seen anything like that before and then the third hole It's like I got a hogs back down the middle of the fairway, which reminded me I think is the fourth hole Like I said at bayonet trails might be the fifth hole I was a little bit conflicted on three because it's got this, you can go up the left side or you can go up the right side.

But I didn't really see the value on going up the left side. I didn't. Honestly, I think later in the year, you might not want to go right because there's going to be a ton of divots down there. Because all the ball's funneled on there. Yeah, I think it's basically just a massive,

almost like a split fairway. It never actually splits, but it's a big top tier on the left and a big bottom tier down on the right. And if you if you play on the right, I think the only benefit to going up the left is there's no bunkers up there. So theoretically, a safer shop. And then it's a blind shot coming into the green. It's a blind shot over this massive bunker. And then this big kicker on the back side of the bunker. So playing from higher ground up there. I mean, I agree. I did. I do want to play from the right side there. The fourth hole, part three, with two greens,

an upper and a lower green, which I thought was really cool. We played the upper one. I think the lower one probably would have been a little cooler to play. But a big slope in between two of them, I accidentally missed the upper green to the left and it kicked down and went on the lower green, 60 yards away, which I couldn't have done that.

If you have two greens, you really have one. That's well said, John. Or connected to. kicked down and went on the lower green 60 yards away, which I couldn't have done that a lot. If you have two greens, you really have one. That's well said, Tron. Or connected too. Yeah, it was, yeah, I wasn't sure. That seems like unnecessary maintenance because the ball can't really stop between the two of them. It was a great view.

I thought that the way, almost like the horizon lines worked and stuff on that upper green was really cool because, you know, once your eye focuses on the green and then you get past that and then all of a sudden like you kind of see the rest of the golf course and the ocean. It's a cool advantage of kind of like almost these like foothills that are up there and that was that was pretty cool. I thought how they how they use that. But yeah, I didn't I don't know if I totally get why there was two. Maybe a usage thing or like if I don't know.

The six, the awesome K-Pull again, similar to the fifth hole at Cabot Link. So that's one that makes up your tease a little bit. Cause when we played the second nine there, like being able to carry the hazard one round and you know, have to hit it out to the right, the other round was fun. Like it's fun to play that whole two different ways.

That was the most outrageous hole location that we've ever seen before. There's this tiny little shelf on the right side. And Keith was like, yeah, that's like, that's like not as fast as we all. Even talking to, uh, talking to the Caddy and stuff, or like, it was just, like, it was not possible to get close. I was like, I'm gonna try to do,

I'm gonna try to like cut it against the wind, and maybe if it stops here, it'll trickle out to stay up on that top tier. Like, yeah, no, you can't do it. Just try to make four. Six was a kind of divisive part three. I think it was, it's a cool, it's called the cup and saucer, and where like the upper part of the green,

it's kind of, there's two tiers. There's two punch balls of it. Yeah, saucer, and where like the upper part of the green is kind of, there's two tears. There's two punch balls of us. Yeah, there's two tears, but the back part of the green is below the, it's like totally blind. And we got a course of pin on the front part so we didn't get to experience the back part. And it was a little bit, it was very narrow. You couldn't really play much of a run-up shot

without risking going in the deep stuff, which I think a lot of it. It was really hard too, because I think that, you're kind of playing through these, almost like this little half pipe of these two dunes on each side, and I think a lot of it. It was really hard too, because I think that you're kind of playing through these, almost like this little half pipe of these two dunes on each side, and I think that completely blocks the wind. So as soon as your ball gets above that, there's all this wind up there that you don't really feel, and so I just, I have such a hard time of trying to get that, keep that ball straight

without just getting you to wind. So very low key. Like, you had to be really thoughtful. It was cool. I'm trying to get that keep that ball straight without just getting very low key Like you had to be really thoughtful. It was cool I remember the the first time we played it was to that backpainted it was it was a lot more Yeah a lot more really yeah to it back to back part five's on seven and eight Some pretty cool holes and then the ninth was their their version of the short part three going back I think seven is a good example of I could see Cliffs being maybe a

little bit harder for high handicap players. It definitely was the first the first time I played it was like the wind was crazier and that's what everybody kept saying they're like oh Cliffs is like four or five shots easier like no way like it's so much and I was that was the exact shot I was picturing was it's it's this pretty massive carry and massive carry, and the carry kind of gets longer and longer the further right you go. So when you think about most players hitting kind of a slice,

it just, I can't imagine how many balls are in the bottom of that gully down there. Which, I think we all agreed, like Cliffs for Us was probably, and we're not, we're kind of the gamut from scratch to a 12 or 13 handicap. And I think to a man Cliffs was probably three or four shots harder for each of us. I'm sorry. Sorry. Easier for each of us.

Yeah. Whereas I think links, there's less, there's less force carries. But if you're trying to get the ball really close to the hole, it's, it's not as easy to. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I thought, you know, I thought seven and eight like kind of hat like sevens Really hard par five and then eights a super easy par five more of a you know for par four and a half It's cool to have two par fives that run directly opposite directions also because you know Yeah, you're gonna get one easier. You're gonna get one hard and so I think that that was a cool cool device that you don't see all that much The green site on seven was one of the best ones. It's so cool, kind of a green angled from front right to back left with bunkers that protect

it kind of sits up perched. We didn't get a win that was beneficial to go for it in two, but it would be a really, really fun try to hero carry to try to get on that green in two, which made the next part five was with the win for us and it was like driver mid-iron. Which pretty easy eagle if you ask me. That's scummy, pretty easy to say that. Ten's a part five, two, three, three, four, five, four holes.

Yes, and it doesn't feel, I don't really know, you don't really know, you don't really know, do you know what I mean? We don't know, just it's just like, because not in my challenge. Nine is so different too, nine is it? Right, you know, 110-yard little postage type, part three. Which you like walk the distance of the hole

and then play it back, which is kind of interesting. And then, yeah, the 10th hole is just a stunner, part five, the ocean all down the left, with a little cavern in front of the green. It kind of makes you want to play down the first fairway with the right wind to try to, that was the Icarita line. Yeah, exactly.

To try to get a good angle into that one. I love that one. But let's you do that. And it's really cool because of how how it's just cool when you see how they maintain kind of the dunes and the waste area type stuff because, yeah, once you've played it once or twice, then obviously you're looking back from the green and you're like, shit, why didn't I hit it? Why didn't I hit my second shot way out to the right?

I'd have so much better of an angle and I wouldn't have to carry this whole hazard and blah, blah, blah. But there is a little like it's a little riskier to do that because of the stuff between one and 10. And there's a nasty bunker and there's if you miss like you can, it's a risk to do that. But it is probably easier. Well, then I kind of tried to, like the first time we played it, I had, you know, good number in.

I was like, all right, well, I'm just going to blast it through and try to get it back side of the green or even in that back bunker. I put it in that back bunker and word to the wise, that back bunker, there's not a whole lot of sand in there. It is, which I think was a conscious thing for them. And then you're worried about putting it in the hazard upfront. So it's a, and that was one of my favorite greens

on the course too. It was to really kind of back to front slope. And it feels like the end of a knot, it's the 10th hole, but it feels like the end of a knot because you go right up to the 18th green, which is right behind it, and then you kind of cross over to where you tee off on one. Which for the setting too, looking at,

you know, they're doing a bunch of construction, they're doing the big putting green and the short course and building a half way house and all bunch of construction, they're doing the big potting green and the short course and building a halfway house and all sorts of stuff, but you've got these couches up behind 10 green and 18 green. So the setting there, it's like on this little boss, it's just wild and you're like, God, I can't. I'm so excited to play the next eight holes, but I also can't wait.

So just go sit on these couches up there. Well, between our two rounds, we had two T times kind of booked at Cliffs. We played it twice in one day. And I think there were some wires crossed just internally with us about when our next T time was. And then I was looking at my phone. I was like, Oh gosh, we don't have to go to the T. Like we don't T offer another like hour. And everyone's like, Oh, sick.

We can just sit on these couches and just drink beers for an hour. That's way better than going back out. 11th hole, par four that goes up the hill. And I think I like this hole a lot more than the rest of it. I love that hole. I liked it a lot. It was like a classic core, crenshawhal hole. If you carry the bunker on the right,

you get a much better angle. And at the green coming up the hill. Yeah, but everything kicks down left towards the markers and then blind shot. And it's just, yeah, that was cool. I think 12 was my favorite part three. Really good part three back at the water. It's a tough hole.

I mean, I don't want to do every hole, but like gosh, every hole is somewhat noteworthy in some way. I mean, 13's like a wild Alps Part Four with a totally blind shot into a green to a huge mound that you hit over. 14 was probably my favorite part three on the whole course, just this stunning setting,

like this green just kind of sits perched. It reminded me a lot of the sixth hole at Augusta. It's perched up a little higher, but like, we didn't even get this pin, but like a bottom left pin was a cool little bowl pin. Like we got one on like a top left shelf with this little death bunker behind it, and just a massive green that had so many options to it. There's a rock. Yeah, like a rock left shelf with this little death bunker behind it. And just a massive green that had so many options to it.

There's a rock. Yeah, there's a rock carve out. Like that one duck out. And there's the got there was just, like that was the best golf evening you could ever imagine. There's this little bunker directly behind the green too of like carve out of the trees. Yeah, it's super weird.

It's just, yeah, that takes your day from bad to worse. Yeah. Yeah. You hit it in there. And then you walk up to 15-T, 15 was, again, it's just kind of similar to three, a little bit, almost like a hog's back or whatever you want to call it, kind of like a split, two-tiered fairway where if you drive it up the left side, you've got just this incredible view of this reachable par-five. If you drive it down the right, you're kind of going to be a little bit blind coming in,

but just like from a fun, reachable, birdy-able, triple-able par 5, I mean, that's about as much fun as you can have playing a par 5, I think. And there's this little mound in front that kind of informs the way that you hit your second shot in there, and if you get the kick off of that, that was really cool. I think for me, some of these holes, I wanted them to, like looking back, I wanted them to be more strategic than they were.

I think, and maybe that was just a matter of talking to some of these guys about it where if the pin changed, I don't think you'd play the whole that different. Yeah. Right? To where, you know, and that's not necessarily a knock. That's part of the reason why I'm so approachable for the Resort Guest. And it's a great course to play on a trip like this. That was kind of my thinking with, like,

Cabot Cliffs is, it's just the barrier to entry is lower. Like, it's just, it's right, this is what it is. Like, it is, maybe if you played it 20 times, you would play the whole at the exact same time, the exact same way, but I mean, this isn't like a member's course, this is a resort course, and you come to play it twice, three times maybe,

but I know they want you to keep coming back, but I thought that's like that is what I would want out of a resort experience. It's stunned me. Yeah, I think that's the, that's the wrestle or the argument, is like a whole like 13's a perfect example of, we all played it, it's a straight uphill, you know, Alps type,

part four where completely blind, you, you just kind of crest this big hill and then behind the hill is almost like this punch bowl, like really big, but kind of punch bowl type of green sort of. And we all played it and we all crested the hill and saw the pin for the first time or like, oh my God, that's like the most fun shot ever. It's like one of those jumps in like like the X game, like the air competition. The pins like right behind the ramp. And so we all like absolutely loved it. We're freaking out about it on the green. Like that's such a fun shot to hit. And then you start thinking

about it, like, well, would it be as fun like the 20th time? Like, probably not. Like it would probably be similar. And that's where the follow-up question to that is like, doesn't matter. Like, it was really fun the first and second time. So I guess that's kind of a win. But even versus some of the, you know, stream song red or old sandwich or lost farm, it just, it felt like it had a little bit less.

It was more, hey, it's, it's right there in front of you than those versus another core crunch off. Well, let's get to 16. You guys of you than those yeah versus another core crunch. All well. Let's get to 16 You guys start off. I don't want to come in. Well 16 is the whole that you would have seen pictures of it's part three Just a t-shirt directly over a cliff To this little green it's on this little piece of land that is almost too small to have a green on and it's it's I know I've seen some pictures of it. I'm like huh, like yeah That looks pretty wild like how do you actually see the green like how does it how does it work? on. And it's the I know I've seen some pictures of it. I'm like, huh, like, yeah, that looks

pretty wild. Like how do you actually see the green? Like how does it, how does it work? And you get up there it is kind of it. It's like a thrilling shot over the cliff. But I thought it felt like to me it was a very postcard picture hole. And like we'll look great on a drone and all that. And it wasn't that intriguing to actually play it. It's tough. I mean, part of the, part of the green was closed off. Like the right portion of the green was closed off. I don't know if it was closed off for maintenance issues or we heard some whispers.

There were some sinkhole issues going on over there as well. So they might have some pretty massive repairs to do to that green in the coming years. But it's just a, if you sound up in a word, I mean, it's just a little awkward, I think. It's that you can kind of do one of two things. You can fly it right at the pin and try to stop it. If you do that, you're probably going in one

of the bunkers short or long because the green is so narrow and typically it's fair to know the more narrow again. Yeah, so you're either gonna filter all the way down to that fat part of the green, which is way on the right hand side, which is where they they couldn't put the pin when we were there Or you're gonna go over the back into one of those back bunkers or there's a massive It's not a not a redan, but it's kind of this a reverse rename, but kind of the same

Sort of shape like if you were looking at it overhead it would almost look like that, but it's way we were looking at it overhead, it would almost look like that, but it's way steeper. And so there's a shelf, you can try to hit probably, I don't know, 20 yards left of the pin that will trickle it all the way down, but it's such a small target to hit.

And a lot of times the ball just ends up kind of hanging up there. Or there's a bunker just a lot. Or there's a bunker there. Or it's just a very awkward shot. Yeah, it just leaves you itching a little bit. It's kind of like, oh, I don't know if that was, I think fully. It's spectacular and it's thrilling to hit

and we took a lot of photos there and it's, if you go play it, you'll have a really fun time. But if you're breaking down kind of like the golf components of it, it's a little weird. It's just weird to play it is like a 16th hole too because it's late in the round. You got, you know, if you got something on the match or I don't know.

I didn't even think it was that thrilling to hit. It's certainly scenic and everything. Um, and, you know, people have mentioned 16 at Cyprus. But 16 at Cyprus is like a much bigger green and you can see it and it's can't do a certain way. And I'm like, I've never played Cyprus but just looking at it and just seems like a much more eminently fair hole even though it's longer. Whereas this one, it felt like it was almost... I wonder... I wonder how we would have felt if we had the front-right green that part available. I think it would be, it would almost be kind of... It looks

hard, but it's the effect of that would have been very different. Because with the pin we got, I was just like, and I can't imagine how sick of people are if you're gonna talk about the pins, but it dictates so much. And the pin we got is the most awkward one and you don't get the real exhilaration of hitting over that gap.

Yeah, I mean, for me, I was shocked that, like after playing it, I was shocked that people have rancid and raved about that hole and I think it's almost irresponsible. Because I think it's a slide on the rest of the course that they've, that everybody picks that hole to rant and rave about. It's like, yeah, it's like, you know, it's pretty,

but is it a good goof hole? I don't think so. I think we can say the same thing about the next hole. I mean, 17th, drivable par four is, it's more unique. So I think I like this hole probably more than you did T.C. But it is, it's because it's one of the most unique T-shots I've ever hit. I mean, you're almost hitting sideways up over a cliff. Like, it's not. You look at it, and I've seen, again, from pictures from it, I was like,

dude, this looks really awkward. Like it was like a really awkward shot and it is an awkward shot. But never in my life have I hit up over a cliff. I don't know, that is sick. No, that's probably more of a thrilling one than 60. It's a thrilling one, but then you get,

like you get down to the green and you're like, oh, there's a bunker there, front left. If you're not gonna carry it all the way to the, or you're probably not gonna carry it all the way to the green and you're like, oh, there's a bunker there at front left. If you're not going to carry it all the way to the, or you're probably not going to carry it all the way to the green, it's really not a good option to go to lay back with a six or a seven iron up left on the hill because then you got this weird ticklish downhill shot. And like, I'm not, I played it fine.

I made par and birdie on it, but it was just a matter of, again, I just felt, especially as the 17th hole, it just felt so overly gimmicky to where, you know, just a weird green shape for what the hole is. Like, you have no, especially, especially for a resort, like, you have no idea how far right to take it. The caddies to their credit really don't either. You know, it was just like, it's a total guessing game. And like, we love, I love blind shots. Like, I love blind shots. I love short par fours.

And this one just didn't do it for me. It's hard to have it completely blind and then also have that kind of small, almost like random bunker in there. Because like you said, there's, like the trade off to, you know, well, if you don't like the bunker, like you should lay up. But like you said, the trade off to, well, if you don't like the bunker, like you should lay up. But like you said, laying up,

then you're hitting like a seven hour into the top of the hill. And then that feels like really weird. And so it's, yeah, it's a little strange. Like I liked it a lot more the second time when we hit it on the right line and it rolled up on the green and we two put it for birdie. Like that was fun. But it's hard to,

like the first time I hit it almost in the identical spot that I hit the second one and it won the bunker. So it's hard to, I don't know, hard press to critique Corrin Crenshaw, but like if that bunker was just a smaller pot bunker, that was like, all right, yeah, it's not free, it's not like free access to the front of the game. But when I go for the green, it might go in this bunker.

But like this one's like, or if you go for the green, it might go in this one. But like this one's like, if you go for the green, it's probably gonna end up in this bunker. Other than you might get it through this 15 yard gap and it might sneak on the front, but other than that, you're gonna end up in a bunker. And the bunker's not the worst place to be. No, it just feels like it's totally playing a relat.

Yes, that's a great way of putting it. And it's just a weird, it's such a substantive, gorgeous, but also, like, eminently fair golf course before. And I hate to use word fair, but just eminently, like, you know what you need to do and there's some flourishes, like, 13 with that big mound or there's certain things that, you know, you gotta play it right and you gotta get a little bit of luck going. But it's just a weird finish for 16 and 17.

Like I think if 16, like if they weren't next to each other, I'm not sure we would be quite as hard on them, but it's like two straight holes of just like, what the fuck man? Yeah, I think it is also just with the rating, like the kind of the appeal that comes with it. Like their postcard material, both of them, and you'll see pictures of them,

so you kind of expect them to be the best holes. And that's more of a praise on the rest of the golf course. So then it is like criticisms of the hole necessarily. Yeah, I think, I think for me, it's just confusion that those are the holes that I heard about before we played it. And I'm like, tell me about those after you tell me about number two and number 15.

Yeah, those holes. Yeah, I think it's almost like the reverse of the bar conversation, right? Where it's like if people aren't having the, aren't having that bar conversation breaking down the holes and talking about really what the intent was and all that stuff, like, it's their impression of those holes are probably,

like, yeah, here's my picture. It was great, look how pretty it is. And so it's hard to fault people for that too. So I agree with you, I don't think it's my favorite, my favorite holes to play, but I mean, it's scenic and a lot of people like that. It would be fun to keep playing. I think it's way more fun to play than 16, I think.

Like it'd be fun to keep hitting it at the top of the hill and finding out where the ball goes. It's kind of fun, I have no idea what's gonna happen down here. That part is kind of fun. Something else to is, Rainy and I played with a couple guys from Ontario and our first round there. And one of them was probably a 15 handicap.

The other one was probably a 22 handicap. And those guys did no chance. On 16, really, or 17, you know, which was frustrating for them because they want to enjoy this part of the property, but then they're back into their pocket and not even knowing where to drop, basically. 18, part five, water, ocean, all to the right, perched up on a cliff. It's not the most spectacular design hole, but it's just beautiful.

It's awesome. It's a great hole to play. It's not that unique. There's nothing crazy about it, but it was just awesome. I loved it. I love that hole. Yeah, it's a great finish to you. I mean, it's a good, like that encapsulates a lot of what makes clips so good. It's pretty wide. It's gorgeous. You got a chance to make a birdie or a triple. And it's just a very cool greenside bunker. This small little bunker that a lot of stuff, it kind of dictates how you play both the second shot

and if you're playing a third shot, the third shot, everything, it's like a magnet, everything rolls into that and then you got to deal with it if you're coming in and all from the left. So it really gets you to play down the right side if you want a good angle in. What's your word for a caboclyph? Thrilling.

It was a thrill. I walked off with a big smile on my face and just like, whoa, I just saw something really, really special there. Mine was similar. I'd rollicking. It's a rollicking good time. Up and down and it's all over the place. I had candid.

Candid. Yeah, it's just a little bit dramatic. Other than 16 and 17, it's pretty direct. It's pretty, here's what you got to do. You still got to make decisions and everything, but it's pretty direct and pretty right there in front of you. And I think you're going to like it right off the start. All right, the judgment day.

You got 10 rounds to divide between the two courses. How are you doing it? My ratio has shifted wildly over the last. Even since October, since I went there the first time, but I honestly, I might be at like 5.5 now. Which I don't even know, I don't know if I've ever split two courses, 5.5. I'm just, I'm way in my own head on which one I like more,

I don't think I can make a decision, which is great. What a testament to which is great. What a testament to a great place. I'm going six links for Cliff. That's where I was right between that. Which I feel like a total fraud because I walked off the cliff. That's the first time I was like,

oh, fucking eight, two, man. But just like the more I've reflected on it and dwelled on it and kind of that second time around links I think was really a creative to knowing what you need to do and just some of the magic of it. I think I'm, so I can go two ways with it, kind of like to me as somebody that needs to, not needs to, but would like to speak very intelligently on these courses. I would go five-five, like I think for experience wise, I think it'd be important to do that.

Now, me, golf fan wants to go play golf at this place and just have a great time. I would say eight-two cliffs. Really? Yeah. I mean, it was, dude, like, again, I go back to the feeling I had walking off the two different courses. I was like that.

That was something special. That was truly, truly something special. And I could have been the pins. Might have been the pins on links, but I felt very different walking off the two golf courses. And that's, I can't hide my feelings anymore. That's great. Well, look, I think we gotta go gather some more data.

Neil had an eight too, right? As well, in favor of Cliffs. I think Randy was probably more. Well, I just found it interesting that you, like, I think it can speak to, and again, we've qualified this a million times of how, you know, your different experience can be, but you literally went to this place like it's nine months before we did and had a flipped experience than we had. Yeah.

I walked off and like, and again, I think a lot of it was how I was playing and I think the wind got, wind was way higher higher on cliffs the first time I played it So all of those places that you think high handicaps might lose balls like I lost balls in all of those places The win was like on 17. It's whipping left to right and I'm and I hit a cut and I'm like the others Like there's literally no way this is not going the ocean and there it goes and on 18 There's literally no is not going in the ocean there it goes and so it's There it goes. And on 18, there's literally no way this is not going in the ocean. There it goes.

And so it's, yeah, I, like I said, I'm trying to manage my expectations and not let all of that dictate everything. But yeah, I walked off the first time and was like, oh, it might be 7-3, 7-3 links. And then we had spectacular daycliffs. So look, we just need to go back. We need to gather more data. We need to keep send us your rankings. If you've been there, how would you split your 10 rounds?

Send us, tweet us your answer to that if you've made it this far into the pod. Traum, what's your answer? Join the conversation. Where do you get your answer? Yeah, I was six four. You're six four, so. Six four links.

My brain's much at this point. Yeah, that was, I didn't know if we were gonna get a full podcast out of these two golf courses and here we are in our half-blit. How are you, two-blit? Yeah. We touched on it,

but there is a short course going in over there, a ten hole course that they were working on over up there as well as a putting green there at Cabot Cliffs, and they're hopefully going to be building more courses there in the future. Yeah, of course, there's a solution going down, which you probably can't do in the same trip, I wouldn't imagine, but can't wait to get down there and check that one out. I think just going back to a couple of other things we want to point out, the pub. Yes. The pub was fantastic.

Really, it felt like it didn't feel like you were on a resort. It felt like it was part of the fabric of the town. What I think it was, I mean, you say a lot of, it's definitely not all resort guests. The caddies, the guys who are working on building the short course, you know, people that work at the resort, it's like, come one, come all, everybody's welcome there. We also figured out Canadians love loud music. It was very loud. Loud, loud music.

Of noxiously loud. But yeah, great, great outdoor area there up at the pub and then bunch of beers on draft, great menu there. And then the upstairs restaurant, on property, panorama, restaurant, was great, Cabot Bar, downstairs. Yeah, I mean, just like the setting was, it fell a lot more intimate than any other

Quintet Quintet resort that we've been to. If you're looking to get off campus, by the way, I mentioned this in the golfers journal story that we keep referring to as in issue number eight, but the Glen Nora distillery is, we didn't make it up there with off, you know, this NLU trip that I spent a lot of time there last time I was there. And it's 10, 15 minutes up the road and just an awesome kind of like little hotel and distillery and restaurant and bar and just really would would be a good ad to your trip if you're looking to, especially over there

for a few days and starting to get island fever, trying to get off campus from the resort, that's a really cool spot to go check out. Entirely worth the trip. I mean, it's awesome, awesome place. 10 to 10 would return. I would go back immediately. I hope that.

I would say also, Neil and I flew up a day early. We were in Atlanta and we flew up a day early and actually hung out in Halifax, with a friend Joey Palov. And we put it in Ashburn at a great time, but the food and beverage scene in Halifax was awesome. And we haven't talked about it yet but the exchange rate, favorable.

Very favorable. For at least our American listeners. Yeah, living like kings. But yeah, I mean Halifax, there's some cool golf run there. Highland links sounds like it's worth checking out next time we're up there too. So yeah, Nova Scotia, really eye-openingly cool. Brings the noise.

You know, laid back and the people or the people could not be nicer. They are too. Awesome time. All right, let's wrap it up that. Thanks everybody for tuning in and until next time, we're coming back, Cabot. Keep our beds warm.

Yeah. Cheers. Thanks everybody for tuning in and until next time, we're coming back, Cabot. Keep our beds warm. Cheers! Let's get the right club. Be the right club today! That's better than most. How about it? That is better than most. Better than most!

That is better than most. Better than most.