No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 250: Safeway Recap + Akshay Bhatia Interview

Episode Date: September 30, 2019

Cameron Champ wins his second PGA Tour title at the Safeway. Soly and DJ Pie discuss his game, how it translates to the PGA Tour, the crazy story of his grandfather, the marketing behind him, and a lot more. We also discuss Bryson's comments, the driver testing findings, Rory's comments at the Dunhill, and the Kris Ventura incident. Lastly, Soly sits down with 17-year-old Akshay Bhatia (45:38 mark) to discuss his transition into professional golf, what his first few PGA Tour events have been like, George Gankas, getting a driver's license, and a lot more.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yes! That is better than most. I'm not in. That is better than most. Better than most! Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No-Lang-Up Podcast Special Monday morning recording of this. I wish we had a good reason why we didn't record last night. It was a long day. It was a long day. We're live from Wisconsin. This is a live show, zero audience, but it is in a remote location. We don't have Jim Wagner here to entertain us all,

but we're at Whistling Straits, played Whistling Straits, I said we're gonna talk a little bit about that here towards the end. And then the back half of this podcast is going to be our interview with Oxe Batia. This was done this past Wednesday before the Safeway. He is the 17 year old that just termed professional

has made 2PGA Tour Starts. He has ended up missing the cut in both of those. But he's got a shitload of potential. He's a really interesting story. You wanted what year? Well, that's the very first question of the interview. Wait, for the interview, come on.

I haven't listened to it yet. No spoilers. All right, sorry. He's very young. He is very, very young. I just found it really interesting kind of his path towards the PGA tour and professional golf. I wanted to pick his brain on it a little bit.

So that's in the back half of the show. We're going to talk briefly about the safe way, the Dunhill, just literally just receiving words about this driver testing as we're going to record this. We're going to talk about that, but it's officially Cam Champ, S-E-N. It is. We're in the fall. It's Cam Champ season again. You know, he was, I think he made it what,

it's first like six or seven cuts last year. I coming out of the gates, just blazing, winds in his second start last year, and then kind of hampered by a couple things we can get into. But back problems were definitely among them. Many people saying from carrying the load for my Fred X cup team. How many times have you heard that excuse from everyone around the world, you know? No, I think it's really cool to see him break through yesterday and a lot of the stuff that a lot of the stuff we'll talk to,

we'll speak to is that makes it so cool is what's going on with his grandpa and a lot of other stuff, but just seeing him back in the winter circle, I think it's good for everybody. Well, somebody that's gonna, I don't want to accuse Cam Champ of this, but I'm going to use this phrase. Somebody that's going to game the system might as well game it, right?

So two things that work really, really, really well in professional golf. Hitting it way further than everybody else. I mean, we've seen it. It just correlates to making a shitload of money. Another thing that works really, really, really well is winning some golf tournaments and missing a bunch of cuts. There's no rule that says you have to be top 25 every week,

have to be incredibly consistent. You'd rather be like a cam champ style. If you does this for 20 years, he'll have a more, he'll make more money, he'll have a bigger pedigree than like, I don't want to beat on Charles Howell, but he's like maybe the most consistent player of this entire generation. Finish what, T4 this week? Yes.

He's just always there. Quietly. Yeah. There's another, here you go, Charles. There's another $300,000. Yeah, he's going to be top 25 in career earnings. He's Charles Howell, a better golfer, absolutely. But in modern day professional golf,

if you are a hit or miss guy, I mean, I feel like it's the Scott Stoneings program. It's kind of, Adam Long is kind of like this as well. I mean, he's been, he will miss a bunch of cuts and he will pop up at the very top of the leaderboard. He jumps in and out from that spot and he of course won last year. So I got, I don't know, I feel like everyone was really really hard on them when things

went south this past year, but injuries were a part of that. And it was a rookie. Like you're not supposed to win as a rookie in your second start. Yeah. Like he screwed up his own curve. So I think that's exactly right. And I think going back through and reading both some stuff from last year and some stuff from this year After he won yesterday. It's like You know, I think when you really break down like what happens after you win is so camp champ is I don't even know how old he is. I mean he's a couple years out of college. You're 20s to 22s. Yeah, he's young guy and You go and you win in your second start and then all of a sudden and the you know

We can get into kind of like the tour marketing machine if you want but All of a sudden you are in all the promos, you're in all the featured groups, you're playing alongside Rory and JT and Brooks and all these guys and you're getting interviewed after every round and all that stuff is, it comes with the territory, I don't think anybody feels bad for Cam Champ after having to deal with all these pressures

after winning a tour event, but it's like, that stuff's got to fucking wear on you, man. Like, can you imagine how hard that is to deal with all that stuff just immediately? And- While you're still trying to figure out all the golf courses on the PJ tour, like how often do we hear people say, you know, okay, my second season on tour, like now I know all the golf courses I know where to stay, I know how to practice. Like, he's learning all that stuff at once and he's got back injuries and he's got all this other stuff.

So I think, you know, when you dive into the stats, like it's bleak as far as kind of the bomb and gouge. Yeah. Scene goes looking at his stats from last year. It was like he was sixth on tour in Stroke's game driving and then approach around the green, T to green and total. He was outside the top one 50 in all of those. And putting he's somewhere around like 120.

Like I think he is kind of a slightly better putter than people probably give him credit for, but I don't know, we need a bigger sample size this year. I'm excited to watch him this year, especially now that he's got another win under his belt and he's gonna probably feel a little more comfortable. I'm excited to see what we see. I would expect all of those skills to improve at the time.

His game is very unique in that he hits it very far but he also hits it really low. Yeah. So it's not like you got to see in the pro. We did. I may have outdriven him on one of the holes. He hit, what are you finished like third that way? Yeah.

He hit like six iron off the tee driver from the up tee. But anyways, the way PGA tour courses are set up, if you hit it low and far, there's been to fairways, right? So they're gonna, he's either gonna run out and he's gonna have trouble, not trouble carrying dog legs, but if you play a running shot, chances are, it's gonna be hard to keep it in the fairway. So he doesn't, the bombing gouge that like Rory and DJ have is a completely different ball flight.

Well, I think that's what makes Bubba so impressive. Yes. He's able to, you know, fairler ball flight, but he can shape it so well that he can hold fairway exactly. He can mirror the shape of the hole or go the opposite way if it's landed one way or yeah, it's just, I don't know, we talk about Bubba a lot, not always in the best terms, but like nobody on earth gives Bubba enough credit for the way he plays golf.

People ask, like, hey, we're heading to this tournament. Who of like, you know, the guys you've had on the pod or some of your favorite players? Who should we go follow? Like always, Bubba. Just go follow Bubba. Like he's probably the most exciting person to watch golf. Also like maddening, like so annoying to watch play golf.

But, but yeah, I can't, his game is not gonna translate to a bunch of golf courses Is I know that like it kind of goes it goes against like hitting it really far You're gonna win a bunch on tour and finish at the top. I don't think his game is necessarily like that and especially like major Championship courses, right? Like you know know where it's really about, you know, there's some courses I think like Beth Page where we talked a lot about, and listen, I don't hit the ball 370, so I can't really not often. Not often. So I can't really relate to this, but you know, we talked a lot about Beth Page where it's

like, oh, it's only long hitters. They're the only ones that can compete there, but a lot of those guys, like you said, they're hitting it so high that they can clear a lot of the trouble and stuff and when we're when you're not hitting it that high And you kind of got to shape it around it probably gets a little tougher And I'm not saying came doesn't have carry distance No, he has absurd carry distance. He can carry anything But I just think that that particular ball you watch Rory's drives when he cuts it over a dog like like it lands and it lands soft And it rolls a few yards for the most part and that's just not the way that that can't play.

Anyways, this is a little maybe too much in the weeds, but I think it doesn't surprise me to see him win twice. Yeah. It doesn't surprise me to see him struggling a lot in between. I don't think. And I, but, and if we're talking about the marketing and if it's a backlash against marketing, we're talking about he's 24 now. He was 23 when he won his first event.

The guy that literally hits it further than everybody else and also is African American. Like I can see why the PJ Tour turned for him for marketing. Yeah, of course. And so I don't know where the blame is really getting pointed in there. No, I agree. I mean, I think a lot of it's kind of like hipsterism

where it's, you know, when something becomes popular like nobody wants to see any more of it. But I think from a marketing standpoint, it's like, it's such a no-brainer. And it's such a cool story. And I think we can, that's probably a good transition, but the story of the weekend was his grandpa, Mac, who lives near San Francisco,

and so Cam was staying camera, I believe. Sorry, I don't know if he likes being called Cam. I think that's a whole thing. But he was staying like 60 miles. That just means it's gonna be Cup Camp, for sure. He was staying like 60 miles away. And so he could stay near his grandpa who has got stage four cancer

and is in hospice care right now. And so he's commuting to this, you know, to the golf course every day. And just being with him and his grandpa, like reading there were some great stories. And actually one of the best ones I read was Michael A. Fletcher from the undefeated, actually wrote a story way back in May, which was kind of interesting timing,

because I think that was kind of right in the throes of his struggles and everything. But his grandpa was the guy who taught him to play golf. He has just this kind of like epic American story, his grandpa did. He was an Air Force guy when he got back from the Air Force, like even in the early 60s, like just got treated horribly because he was black and lived in Texas and the South was not extremely kind to people like that. And so some of the stories, you know, he caddyed at an all white club in Texas and never played golf.

Caddy did this all white club where he would find golf balls and he'd take him home and like him and his friends would make homemade golf clubs out of like, rot iron and stuff. And it's almost like, you know, like one of my favorite things is the adventures in golf episode and in Mumbai, the slum golf episode where the guys are making their own clubs out of rebar and the way it gets painted is like, it's very similar to that. That's how he first started hitting golf balls and then eventually was allowed to go play.

There was this great story about him shooting like 132, the first time he played golf and he was just hooked, like he was just obsessed. And so he became like obsessed with golf, helped him and his dad helped Cameron learn how to play and it kind of went on from there. But there's all these kind of crazy roots. So he's up in San Francisco and I think Cameron grew up

like near Sacramento. And the only reason like their family was in California instead of Texas, which is where their grandpa grew up was because he married a white woman and, like, interracial marriage wasn't legal in Texas, so they had to move to California. And so when you really start thinking about it, it's like, gives you chills to start thinking about, like, the ripple effects and all of these things. What year was this?

This was like the early 60s. Oh my god. It's not that long ago. It's nuts. And so I think, I mean, not to get way into kind of like the, you know, the sociology and all of that stuff of what happens here, but like you see the ripple effect

and like the way the deck gets stacked against a huge group of people. And it's just, I don't know, it gives you chills to like start thinking about how long the odds are and how it's a 50 year process for someone like Cameron Champ to make it to the PGA tour. You know what I mean? And that's where people say all the time, and like, I know we can roll our eyes and get

really cynical about some of the, the girl of the game stuff and blah, blah, blah. But when you see it actually, like, when you see how long it takes to really come to fruition, it's like to, like, some of these people are right. We've got to do even small things and even kind of, these things that seem superficial or whatever, they have an impact. It might be 30 years down the road, but it has an impact. Maybe there's a first T-Kid who is going to play golf

for the rest of their life and teach their grandkids how to play golf and that's how the ripple effect works. But it's just really freaking cool and really not golf. It's like, how often do we have stories like that in golf that we can point to? And so it's something that, if you're cynical about celebrating Cameron Champ or Cameron Champ being overexposed, like, come on, man.

This is about so much more than, you know, people who like watch too much golf and see the same commercial too many times. Yeah, I hope he has continued success as much as I think it's not, again, not integral. Like he's got two more, this is the best time of year to win. We talk about this every year, winning in the fall.

You're exempt obviously for the whole rest of this year, which he already was, but then you get two full years after that. It's time to work on some things and time to build a career really in that time period. So I think one more thing kind of like on the ripple effect is like, you know, it's again, it's not unlike hitting the ball crazy far like this is something I absolutely cannot pretend

to relate to. But you hear a lot of these like seemingly throwaway lines about people you know like oh when I saw that person on TV do it like I know that that you know that helped inspire me because they looked like me or because they like me or because for sure of any of these things. And so like think about our experience watching. Every fucking golfer we've ever seen is just like a middle aged white dude. With the exception of like one of them.

Well, but you know what I mean? Like it's like, there's no shortage of inspiration that's just like, oh yeah, no, like I could probably do that. Like that guy looks like my dad. That's very true. Like I look like my dad. Like, you know, and so how often do we hear like, you know, 90% of the other times we hear people

bring up their grandfathers is like, oh my god, he's so inspiring in this win It's like, you know, he was the head pro here, you know, and to win on this course. It's just so inspiring and it's just so different Like it's I don't know. It's just so cool to have a story that's so different. That's well said a quick break here to remind you guys about something We've been talking about for a couple weeks the the the new Callaway Jaws MD5 wedges, they had the most aggressive grooves in golf. The Jaws MD5 is a breakthrough in wedge craftsmanship and performance from Callaway,

chief designer Roger Cleveland and his team. They've created a new Jaws groove along with proven groove and groove technology. Wow, I got that one in one take this week. To take spin and control to the next level, the walls, edges and angles are all milled to the face to achieve the sharpest edges and tightest tolerances ever from Callaway. The result is a wedge that's built for total performance with premium shapes, striking finishes, outstanding feel, and exceptional spin. They are in stores now. You can go take your info online CallawayGolfagolf.com to experience the JAWS MD5.

You can check out all the performance technologies, which grinds are right for you. You can do five different grind options. You can do all kinds of head optimization. It's kind of scary how much time you can spend on that website. Kallowagolf.com for more information, let's get back to the pod.

Sticking with the safe way here, just came out this morning from a Reuters report. I believe you have the author, the gentleman, you can grab that. Yeah, I do somewhere here. Well I read it is believe that Corey Connors, Robert Streb, Jason Duffner, Michael Thompson and Mark Hubbard were among those whose drivers did not pass the driver inspection test on Monday or Tuesday, Monday, slash Tuesday, both days? Yeah, I believe. On a Tuesday. At the safe way.

Tori has begun random testing of 30 drivers at tournaments this season. The next line in the article also says there's no suggestions, manufacturers are making clubs that are not within the games rules, which the two sentences above that would do. I'm guessing, I guess that what that alludes to is the creep that you hear on all of these things,

it's like you make a driver that's conforming and then the more center hits, it gets the more trampoline effect it has and it kind of like slowly creeps over the line. So I'm guessing that's what the author meant. The author Andrew Boath or Boath, I'm not really sure how you pronounce it. It goes both ways.

It goes both ways. All right, I'm gonna say, just I'm gonna say exactly what we said after what happened at the open championship presented by her majesty, the queen. If you took, and I will also say, if you took Xander and or Callaway to task over what happened at Port Rush,

I hope to guide you are taking each one of the manufacturers and all five of these players. Even if two of them are on my FredEx cup team. Look, it's going to say we need to have you issue a state. We'd like to push the limits of success. We're just moving so fast. We're breaking so disruptive. So what happened to Zander, and maybe if this didn't get through to people at the time

because it was Callaway related, and we are of course sponsored by Callaway, is that almost all the drivers, and I can't say for sure But a lot of the drivers on tour are are nearing that limit. They are close to that limit the guys are playing hot heads and the more and more center hits you have the more They can add a spring like effect to the driver and you can go over the limit There's tolerances we can get really technical if you want but a lot of these drivers are Yeah, I didn't do the research actually, but we did on that one pod.

If you want to go back to that recap. But basically, for one, this is all alarming. If five of 30, first of all, I was gonna say, is that a good success rate? Yeah, 30 people randomly tested and five don't pass. Like, what is that one sixth of the- So if one sixth of the field is out, so like 30 guys a week maybe,

are having non-conforming drivers. If that is believed to be a good sample, which it sounds like a very arbitrary and random number, I'm sure that PJ Tord had a ton of sampling analysis into that, then there's a huge issue out there, which we said at the time, this was not a calomething, it was not a zander thing, even that week alone, there were four guys that got dinged in different manufacturers. It's like, all right, here's the issue, this should have been tested a long time ago, I have no idea why it would never was.

They should still be testing the three woods, which I don't know why they're not. And here we are, five guys get dinged for it this week. I think it's like, again, if you took a soapbox up to shred everyone that was involved in July, my ears are keen to hear you do the same for these five guys. It's like the four, the foreshouting police that took up Bob McIntyre's side. Big shot Bob.

Over Kyle Stanley. I hope every single time somebody doesn't yell for that you are roasting them as much as you did Stanley. So I think the only thing to say is ban all drivers. Drivers should be illegal. Yeah, I think God, I can imagine how much my world ranking would improve if all drivers were banned. So yeah, I'm guessing a lot more to come. This has to be a big story.

I would have to think. I mean, as big as the deal it was when Zander got popped. Is it though, like, I mean, like, what's gonna happen? Like, I'm with you and it's like a huge, it seems like a huge issue facing professional golf, but like, when you really look around the corner here at what's gonna go down, like, I mean, is this something that's gonna like break through

to the mainstream, like slow play, and I don't mean condescending, but it's like, slow play is something that like, everybody can wrap their head around, you know, it's like, God, that guy's slow. Fuck that guy. Whereas this is like, well, characteristic time and tolerances and strenpling effect in the way that's like, it's just, it's almost like

two complex of a thing to have like a rational conversation about. Yeah, it's not. And people are like comparing it. Maybe I just listened to me dumb people, but people are comparing it to like steroid, air and baseball and cork bats. And it's like, no, like basically the rules are written to say, all right, you can have three pieces of cork in your bat. But if you have four, then that's too many.

Basically, I mean, the drivers are so insanely hot as it is now, that it's not like that there's, it's not like doping and cycling or anything like that. But if there is a rule, which the rule is absurd as it is, like these drivers shouldn't be launching the ball as far as they do, but there is a rule, and there's still people, the drivers are still going over it because it's a difficult thing to measure and keep consistent. And so they're so close to the line,

everyone wants as much distance as possible that there's gonna be drivers that go over. If it's a slap on the wrist and you gotta change out your driver head, there's no risk to players. Well, that's what I was gonna say is, what do you think about the idea of doing this all is like anonymous testing?

And granted, the Reuters report named names and it is just a report and hopefully it's an accurate report and all of those names are not needlessly brought up in this conversation. But I mean, what are your thoughts on that? Because it does kind of absolve the players of the responsibility like you're saying. I didn't love the people that were saying,

it's not the player's responsibility. And Xander, I know I keep going back to this, but he went and got his driver tested that week at Calloway and their measurement was below the tolerance. So that's the gray areas. Like you can't even get an exact real. Which shows you how close it is. Yes.

And so, but there's not much responsibility to take here. It's like the player's got to put a new driver in play. Yeah. So, but I still see no reason why Dustin Johnson, Jason Day, wouldn't show up with a juiced up driver. And then if they get tested on Tuesday, I'll hit him back up. Yeah, that's fine.

There's no punishment for it. So this may change things though. Maybe every driver is going to be tested. If it's going to be a sixth of the field that your testing is getting dinged, you got to test everybody. Or if you're publishing the results of, if you are more upfront about,

I'm just trying to go back, if you are more upfront about, like I'm just trying to go back to what I was just saying about, you know, is this something that can really like cross through to the mainstream? I think kind of the only way you'd fix it would be, it's a lot like the slow play stuff, which I know this would be kind of a transition into what we're gonna talk about next.

But it's a lot like that stuff, and that it's like if you really want to have an impact, like you kind of need to air people out and make them fearful of not failing the test. Yes. You know what I mean? Otherwise you get like in this protected bubble or goal of golf. Yeah.

And so it is hard because more on that with the Ventura thing. Sympathetic to the tour because it's, you know, the three words we say all the time, member, run organization. Right. Like I, of course, the tour is not going to air out their members. Like, I mean, I completely get that. But at the same time, it's like, man, if you want to fix the issue here, it's kind of, you're kind of left with not that many ways to do it.

Right. And one of them is to air be bull out. So, well, it's transitioned exactly to that. Then with the Bryson slow play more, it bucks its head again. I don't think we'll spend as much time on this as we did last time we talked about it. But I don't even know how this came back up. I guess Friday there was a press conference question to him or something. I think it was.

So he had a shot. I don't we didn't get to watch a lot of the golf this weekend. Off a grandstand into a hazard and was apparently complaining about which was. Yeah, but it was apparently complaining about it hitting the grandstand and going into a hazard and he didn't know where to drop and all that. I think it was basically saying if it didn't hit the grandstand, like it wouldn't have gone in the hazard. Yeah, which is like how often do grandstands help you, but then it did. Yeah, so I don't know what to tell you.

That is what we call the rub of the green, my friend. Anyways, he brings it up something. There's data. He says there's data out there. I'm going from a deadspin article. There's data out there now that shows that I'm not the slowest player at all by any means. What? Quite the boastful comment. I'm pretty sure. What a statement of the 200 plus players that will play on the PGA tour. I am not the slowest player.

Not the slowest one. Right. And then says, when asked, he's like, I have the data out there. When asked to elaborate on the data he's referring to, D-shimbo is less than forthcoming. Well, the PGA tour has it. I've seen it. I don't know if I can disclose any of it, but I'm definitely not in the top 10%. I'm not close to that.

That's from shot link data. We have that. So I can say that I know, I can say that without a shadow of a doubt. So about top 10%. Well, the top 10% is all caddies. For sale. It's the caddies fault.

They're the slow ones. So we make up the whole top 10%. So he's quite clearly in the 11 to 20%. I am 11%. He's definitely not in the top 20. Or else he would have said, I'm not in the top 20% or top 50 or top 70. Right, exactly.

So again, this is all just like a political spin that if you buy this, I feel sorry for you. I don't know what, I don't even know what he's selling here. Yeah, I'm not like the slowest. I saw a tweet this morning from this comic, Mike Berbiglia, Mike Berbiglia, who's very funny, you should watch this stand up. But he was talking about politics

and just kind of like summing up politics in 2019. And the first quote was like, you know, hey, there's a cockroach in my meal. And the second quote was like, yeah, but what about the cockroaches and all the other restaurants? It's like, yeah, no, but they're still like, like this one you're responsible for right here.

Like, well, let's just talk about this one. And I kind of feel a little bit like that with this. It's like, yeah, no, for sure, there's other problems, but like, let's just focus on one thing and then we're like, you're cady is the problem for you. Your cady, Tim is the slowest. He's the problem. Tim!

Last, last thing for the safe way. One more thing on that real quick is like, it's similar to the driver testing stuff and I kind of alluded to this, but like if you're one if, so to set the context, which I don't know if we totally did, it came out at the end of, I don't know,

at the end of the season or the Northern Trust. The whole, it still feels to me like it's like the 2013 Season has just never ended because there's no offseason, right? I'll just keeps just all keeps going it never stops I have no sense of of time or space, but It came out that like the tours looking into the slow-play stuff blah blah blah. They have shot link they're gonna use hashtag big data to solve the problem and blah, blah, blah, they have shot length. They're gonna use hashtag big data to solve the problem. And one of the things that they were saying was like,

we've created these individualized reports for everybody so they can see how long it takes when to play shots and blah, blah, blah. And so on one hand, again, I get not airing out your members and I get protecting the interested parties in a quote, member-run organization. But on the other hand, it's like,

if you wanna speed these guys up, the only way to do it in my mind is public shaming. And so I think maybe a place to meet in the middle would be like, just tell us who the 20 fastest people are. And let us celebrate those guys and like let us create kind of like some positive some positive reinforcement with these guys, you know, like try to get in the top 20 try to get in the top 50 whatever like I don't know that maybe that's a place to start but at least like give us some context at how fast a

player should be because right now like I even kind of have no idea what it you know we do I guess got idea we could reach out to every PGHore player and ask for the data. Sure. And release the tapes. We'll get maybe half of them and it will clearly be only the top half. That's a good point, actually.

We can assume that everybody else is just the slope. If you're an anonymous PGHore whistleblower, please reach out to knowingupatgmail.com or do not a spy just a whistleblower. Just a whistleblower. You'll be protected at that point. On member run organizations is it doesn't mean that there's no rules. Like everyone within the organization needs to

follow a set of rules and they have come up with a set of rules related to slow play. Well, because that's so if you don't enforce them against the people that violate them, you're that are paying the price. Yeah, exactly the ones following exactly. And that is where it's like slugger white's explanation for the slow play made zero cents. I'm like, that was literally the best. We should do an entire podcast on that quote. Yeah. He was pulling the thread of, you know, if I give someone a slow play penalty, you know, it's possible they could lose hundreds of thousands of dollars.

It's possible that keeps them from buying a house. It's possible. that keeps their kid from going to the college he wants to go to or she wants to go to and yeah It was just like which that house doesn't magically appear like if if it costs that one person a house in a college You know it I should say if one person is getting the benefit by the slow play of getting the house in college It's costing someone else that opportunity, right? So there isn't even trade off, but anyways, that's enough on slow play of getting the house in college, it's costing someone else that opportunity. So there isn't even trade off, but anyways, that's enough on the slow play. Quickly, I don't know if anybody cares about this, but the Christopher Vinciera, we didn't even talk about Roma, Roma will like shot us

to under part 70. Yeah. I will maintain that every event should have a round scratch player that plays in it. They'll be gonna all follow some weeks they'll shoot 90, like maybe one time out of every two years, somebody will make the cut at a tour event,

and it'd be awesome to follow every week. I would maybe go even further. I think that was like the Spencer Hall thing that every Olympic sport should have. The average player to show context. Yes, but golf especially. Yeah, I mean, it's so perfect because every golfer has gone through the experiment

like, well, if I play the backties, internament conditions, like, I could make it, I could, you know, I could shoot 8, 78 out there. Shout out to Tron, which is, like, a real thing. I mean, I think a lot of people, like, your best 20% rounds, if you went to the backties and did internament conditions, you would post a respectable number, but the other 80%.

Yeah, that's what happened to Roman the second round, which is like, okay, a couple things go wrong, boom, 76 or whatever. But like, Kudos to him, man. Yes, and I know he's impressive. He's had a couple like, you know, opportunities. A couple of opportunities are a couple like tournaments under his belt, which sounds stupid to say, because he's still a former NFL quarterback. But think about it as a factor. That's a factor. I know.

I think about this all the time. Like, there are how many NFL teams are there? 32? Yeah. There are 32 starting quarterbacks in the world. Of all the people who have ever played quarterback, all the people who have ever played football. There's only 32 that make it to that point.

Imagine being able to do that and to break par at a PCH event. And like Steph Curry is obviously like, well, I was gonna say, even more. Romo is at least after his playing, his football playing career. Steph Curry, while being the best in theory, LeBron still better. The best in theory, basketball player in the NBA,

shot a 71 in a corn fairy event. Which, I know they're different, but they're not that different. Like nothing, it's hard to make me, it's kinda like the Alex Honald free solo stuff. You just watch it, you're like, God, where are there just like different species? Yes.

Like there's no, like, how am I supposed to compete with you with like anything? Yeah, it's very, all the kudos to the real world. So like let's put all of it to bed, any one complaining about a sponsor's exemption going to curry Or Romo or anything like that because it's worth following. I'm not even a Romo fan in any kind But like I was hanging on I was checking whole by whole like yeah, I think it's a fine line still I mean, I think it still has to you still have to kind of pass the test of like public interest or public caring because there's still

Plenty of people who, like sponsor exemptions are still very shady in a lot of spots, especially on the corn fairy tour. Right. People are buying spots and has a whole bunch of a lot of them go set up. But a lot of them goes to like, go to like, pros that are like buddies with the tournament director.

Like older pros. That's what I mean. So what I'm saying is like, I don't think it's just like, willy nilly, like, anybody who can break par like should get a sponsor exempt. Yeah. Like, it still has to pass. par, like, should get a sponsor exempt. No, no, no. It still has to pass. Like, it still has to be interesting to the public.

Of 156 spots every week, like, it going to one interesting person to see how they would go. It's really great. Even if you shoot 90 shows in by the panel of us. Yeah, well, it's a size, yeah. Officially the sponsors, uh, sponsors exemption committee.

Lastly, on this, uh, Romo, from 278 yards, hit into the group in front of him on Friday. I believe yeah, it was Friday and hit it to like five feet. Uh, Christopher Ventura is going to go put tap, like tap in a putt for par. And I will explain the video how I saw it, which was he kind of gets in his stance and then wiggles a little bit more into his stance and steps directly in robo's line

Which may or may not have been his intended stance, which is fine I'm not saying he stepped in it intentionally But tapped in for par and then after he got out looked like he looked down at the ball and like made a motion with his head at the ball and I just like the the announcers like sets I think the announcers even said something like oh He doesn't look too pleased with Romo hitting into his group. And I don't know where the spinning thing came from. I honestly don't.

All of some people are like, I literally quote retweeted the video and said, sick because it was sick. Well, I took that as like, it's sick to see somebody like hit into a group of that whole scenario. It's something you'd see on like Sunday morning at your, yes. Like drama. This was drama. Like, I don't like Sunday morning at your... Yes, like drama. This was drama. Like I don't know what, and all of a sudden I see a golf digest article, did Christopher and Cher a spit at

Ramos Balls, like, where do we get that? I mean, there was no evidence that he spit. I never, I definitely never said that. People are blowing me up from left and right on you know, fanning the flames on this. I'm like, no dude, like this was a scenario that doesn't happen on the PJ tour. PJ Torpillars don't hit into each other like that.

And he looked pissed about it and it was justified. If he was pissed, it was justified for sure. Ventura responded on Twitter saying, I didn't spit. Sorry to disappoint you guys. I was like, I didn't say you did buddy, but we are all fans of Christopher Ventura. We're rooting for him. I did not think any, I thought more of him after the scenario, because he looked pissed off.

I would have been like, are you kidding me? This Jackass pro football announcer hits into me. Like, are you kidding me? So yeah, that's my rant on that. I just, it epitomized why I don't like fuck with Twitter anymore. It's just a shittle, I hate it. It sucks, man. Follow something.

Everything gets ripped for updates. But everything gets dumbed down to this. Which is where it's just kind of like just ignore it. Like who cares? It's completely nothing. When it's like that every day though, it's not worth it. But imagine. So I think about this a lot too.

Imagine in golf, it's still so freaking tame. Like golf is, I think that's kind of one of the biggest In golf, it's still so freaking tame. Like golf is, I think that's kind of one of the biggest issues with golf and people in golf industry and whatever, I think that's why everything turns into, you know, got these guys are such class acts. Like it's the class acts open every week is because like there's still a little, like the floodgates have an open on like the complete hostile shit storm that it is in every other sport.

Yeah. Politics or, you know, music or whatever. All those voices that are thriving more than the others. Yes. But that's the thing is like there's still a small amount like it's counterintuitive, but there's still like a small enough amount of negativity on Twitter that it like matters. Whereas in every other sport it's just like, oh yeah, those are just controls like we've heard.

So it's almost like we need more negativity to just have everybody turn it off. Maybe, here we go, I guess. Lastly, before we get to the Akshay interview, Rory had, Rory had some comments after the Alfred Dunhill links this past weekend. Do you have those quotes for us, Mr. DJ Pock? No. Am I supposed to? No, I did not prepare you for that. From John Huggins, friend of the pod, golf.digest.com report at

the Dunhill. I'm sort of honestly sick of coming back over to the European tour and shooting 1500 par and finishing 30th said McAroy who has played only four regular European tour events, 30th said Macaury who has played only four regular European tour events non-majors non WGC's this season at the Dunhill Rory Post's course of 70 67 70 67 sorry second on 66 doesn't matter yet finished seven back of winner Victor Perez and said I don't think the courses are set up hard enough there's no penalties for bad shots it's tough when you come back and it's like that I don't feel like good golf is regarded as well as it could be. It happened at the Scottish Open that Renaissance. I shot 13 under and finished 30th. Actually, T34. Again, it's not a good test.

I think if the European Tour wants to put forth a really good product, the golf courses and setups need to be tougher. I'm reading that from Jeff Shackleford.com. What are your thoughts on Mr. McElroy's comments? Well, first of all, long live Rory post-round, like, brain dumps. Only on the European toy, because he's Mr. PGA toy. Well, that's true. I just mean, like, Rory, like,

no matter what people say about this, like, I saw already this morning, he issued, like, an Instagram apology. Oh. Well, blah, blah. So what I want to make first and foremost very clear is keep expressing your opinion. And maybe some people are going to agree with it.

Maybe some people aren't. But what you think about golf courses and what you think about everything matters. Because you're one of the best players in the world and we care what you think. And we want to hear what you think. And don't go put it behind a paywall. Well, I was going to kind of say that a perfect place

for an outlet. Like a perfect outlet for thoughts like this is a podcast where you can flesh these thoughts out a little bit more. And we can have more of a repartee back and forth. But it does get dumbed down. And it just becomes more shrill when it's in print, black and white. And that's not the generalist fault. And it's in print, black and white.

That's not the generalist fault, and it's not, that's just the nature of how it is. But it was the whole reason he, so I feel like the whole reason he used to come on our podcast was like he would get tired of things getting dumbed down to the lowest common denominator of what he said, and he got a chance to laugh about it and speak about it, and it cleared a lot of things up

and a lot of people's minds. So I think what happens when you have these little, like when you have these poll quotes, and I'm not by any means like apologizing for it, like we can get into what he actually said and what we think about it. But what happens is you take two sentences of this now will become like the European tours like too easy, basically.

Right. What's gonna be to still down into this. And like I don't think that's what he's saying. I mean that's a bit like there's a kernel of that in there, but what I would love is just like him talking about this for 15 minutes and giving more examples and giving more, like I just want to hear more of what he has to say rather than just, it's going to get dumbed down

into like, the PJ Tours Too Easy, Rory hates the PJ Tours, he only likes the players, he only likes the FedEx cup, like, it's like, dude, that's not, maybe that's part of part of it, but like, that's not the whole story. Like like, see, that's not, maybe that's part of part of part of it, but like, that's not the whole story. Like, you know, that's not the whole story, and that's why he, like, if I was him, this is, this kind of just speaks to like, you know,

if you were like a famous person, why the fuck would you ever say anything? Never. Ever. Like, why was played it perfectly? What upside is there to ever, like, give any thoughts? Right. Because people just ruin it, and it's, it's socks, man. It's very depressing to see what happens

every time somebody famous opens their mouth and doesn't have 20 minutes to give a full explanation of what they're saying. It's why podcasts are successful. To finish out Roy's quote, he said, it's been a great year. I've won big events and I've consistently played well. Every week I show up, I shoot good scores and play good golf. If I continue to do that I'll be in a good spot. I don't want to travel that much anymore. I've done it for 12 years. I want to have easy flights and not have to go across eight nine time zones and have to get acclimatized. I'm happy to do what I've done this year. So basically how can you argue with that? Not even a little bit can I argue with that. But I agree with a lot

of what he said and there's also kind of I'm kind that. But I agree with a lot of what he said, and there's also kind of, I'm kind of, okay. He's not a European tour member this year. He didn't take up membership. I don't believe, at least that was the story at the beginning of the year, I don't know if he's earned it through playing it up, whatever. It's still 2013, you know, who could say?

But if you're not gonna be a part of that tour, I don't know how you can come in and criticize it. And I think that was like his Instagram apology here was basically like, you know, this was not the place to like spout off about this and I was just venting after, after a week where I didn't, you know, perform the way that I kind of hoped. And I think that's like the big criticism that a lot of people are going to have is like, well, dude, this was a pro-M set up and it's not supposed to be. That's far from there, Dan.

Yeah. I think, you know, Renee Sons, I feel stupid to say it that way. But the Renaissance Club was, you know, that was another example of like, there wasn't much wind. And we can, you know, everybody knows like these links courses. It's like, if there's no wind, if there's no conditions, like, yeah, people are going to go crazy, freaking low. And, you know, bad shots are not going to be punished as much.

And it's a rubbery green. That's the way it goes. Yeah. Again, I don't want to nitpick after ranting about how you should nitpick what he says. Like, 13 under on a bunch of par 72 golf courses that are set up for pro-amp as well. I was going to say, I'll tell you, that's not good enough. Par is, yeah, par is also, this is a good example of par being kind of a construct. It is.

Right? Like it, we've been saying this for years, of course, par is relevant. And I do think there is something to a bunch of scores being bunched, though, that shows that golf courses aren't set up very hard. It's like either par or birdie. And you know, going back to whatever the dope quote was of like the best golf holes are where the line between birdie and bogey is very close. And I think that's kind of what he's getting at. Is there's not, and kind of what Justin Rose was mad about the set up of the rider cup.

Pins are too easy. That, you know, if you don't have a risk to take on to try to make birdies, then everyone's going to end up bunch and it's not a great test of skill. Now, again, almost everything comes back to professional golf is an entertainment product. And if you're going to have Justin Timberlake out there and Luke Wilson and you know make a big deal about the Pro Am part, you're not going to set up the pins to be, you know, to really test the best golfers in the world. Totally. And so there's a trade-off with all this stuff.

There is, but I think that, you know, I know we're speaking about a Pro Am set up, which again, I don't want to pretend like Rory was saying that was projecting this Pro Am set up into everything. Maybe he was a little bit, but he obviously had more thoughts on his mind. But I think that to your point, it isn't an entertainment product. If they did set up the golf courses harder you know, stars would probably shine more. So I do think he's right. Yes.

I think he's right on a lot of this stuff. But, you know, I think the natural comparison everybody's gonna probably make is to the PJ tour as well. And our guy, Noose Faratu, was at VC 606 on Twitter. One of the like best Twitter followers, there follows there is out there. He's always doing world ranking stuff. But he was basically breaking down kind of like the average scores between the European

tour and the PJ tour. And like on average, like the PJ tour always has lower, it's like a stroke and a half lower than the European tour. And so I guess the natural counter to that would be there's better players on the PJ tour. But I don't know, the whole thing is just, I think both sides can be right and I don't want to make it a cop out, but like there are weeks, like I think Safeway is probably a pretty good example where it's like, yeah, you can kind of hit it all over the park and you're not going to

be punished super hard. And so I think it's kind of funny to have this conversation on a week where Cam Champ, like one of the, you know, non-premier ball stri strikers on tour, goes and wins because I think there's, there's definitely some truth to what Roy's saying. Well, but to me, the whole thing reads as Roy, that last part I wanted to read, that was important because it reads as him looking for, like, trying to justify, probably to European media, why he's not playing

the European tour anymore. Right. Which all that makes, the last part made the most sense. Yeah. I don't think he's not going over there because he's I don't think he felt like he shot played his best golf shot 1300 looked up and was like oh, I finished 30th What the hell I think he's probably didn't play his best golf and you know is a little pp Like it's the same reason like we walk off a golf course We didn't play great. Yeah, and we kind of nitpick it is like that didn't feel great to me. That whole, I didn't have a great week, and I'm not going to stand up and say rosy things at the end of it.

There's a couple interesting things to there, where one thing I think he's going to probably get punished on for these quotes, fairly or unfairly, is, you know, okay, well, when we had a really hard set up at Rural Port Rush, like, how did that go? Yeah. You know, so I think, granted, that one week and what I've made, cherry picking. That's, yeah, one week. But that's the headline from this one. Did you know?

No, yeah, it's gonna be yours. Yeah, exactly. DJ Pye says, well, Rory. Rory, too big of pussy for majors. But no, there's that part of it. But I think that the other thing is, you know, his comments were directly or indirectly like about the old course as well.

And so what happens if the win doesn't blow in 2021 when the opens at the old course and we end up having this, you know. He's singing Randy's tune right now. That's true. Of course, absolutely. But it's like, you know, it is kind of a canary in the coal mine a little bit where it's like to you.

What if we have just a horrible setup and like a very non deserving winner of a major championship at the most famous course in golf like that's that's not good either So I I know that there's a 0% chance that this happens like maybe less than zero But if there was ever gonna be a time where a golf tournament should be held where they everyone's got to play the same exact Sure, it should be the 2021 open at the old course. Yeah, I think they probably would be sick. I think they probably would have announced that by now if that was gonna happen.

But that be sick if they just did a week up. But you know what, you know what, always. Well, you know what, always like shakes me to my core is like this idea that like, oh my God, changing a golf ball, like, can you imagine what a shit storm that would be? Can you imagine? We might need 15 years to prep for that change

and tie it all together when Rory was on the podcast, he sat with you and I in the hotel room and he said, we asked him directly, like, how long would it take you to adjust to a ball? He's like, oh, I don't know, you know, like a couple rounds. Yeah, three rounds. Three rounds a week. Yeah, a week would be fine. We totally have it dialed in.

I'm like, I, I, I, why are we not doing this? Why are we not funding this? I'm like, I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I- by far by a long shot the youngest member we've ever had on the podcast. I just want you to say it out loud. We're with Oxe Batilla. What year were you born in? 2002. That's just, it's absurd. You're almost, I'm almost, almost twice as old as you. All right.

So you're out in Napa for your second event as a professional. You just turned pro last week played in your first event as a pro. It wasn't your first PGA tour event, but again, like I said, the first as a professional. You just turned pro last week, played in your first event as a pro. It wasn't your first PGA tour event, but again, like I said, the first as a pro. Was it any different than your previous start? It was. I mean, I kind of got that wow factor out of the equation. So I was pretty calm. I mean, it was a great week just to get it started.

I obviously didn't play my best golf, but I'm just learning along the way and I'm ready to go for this week. All right, so you just, you just signed with Callaway, you're 17 years old. What's it like having like a, has the check cleared yet? Like you got a little bit of money in your pocket yet for somebody your age, you probably, you're probably walking around more money than you should. What, has that changed life at all? Nah, yeah. Only, only money I got right now is I beat Pat and because I earned a practice round

and took a little bit of cash off of them, but other than that, while it's still not big. Oh, you gotta learn quickly. You don't air out other pros when you take money off of them in a practice round. But all right, I wanna know, okay, so you mentioned kind of last week you didn't play didn't play your best golf. Is there is there any concern at all on your end for that first tournament? And I have usually people really overreact and I actually

haven't seen any overreaction to it. But did anything feel different for you being out there on that stage compared to other golf events you've played in? Not really. You know, I work with George Gankus and we talk about just having no expectations going into the week. So I mean, I wasn't expecting anything out of myself just to have fun. And I mean, I just got a little tired. I had to play 32 holes that second day. And it was whatever, 95 degrees.

So that was a bit challenging because I just made some lazy swings coming down that I guess the last 12, 15 holes. But I mean overall, it was an awesome experience and you know, I'm ready to go for this week and this place is pretty pure. So, yeah, why'd you get going? Well, let's, you mentioned George there.

I want to find out and understand kind of the timeline of when you met George, how you got to meet George and what your swing looked like before you started working with him and how he got the most out of you to this point. Yeah. So, I was an eighth grade senior now. So I think that's five years.

I've worked with George. And it's kind of crazy. I mean, I didn't have a swing coach before. And so the first time I saw George was Mike Cousin, John. He was like, I was playing a Monday qualifier for the farmers, I believe, and I wasn't in the great. And my cousin goes, do let's go see my coach

He's 45 minutes away. We can probably get you in at the time George wasn't as busy as he is now But so that's kind of how I got to meet him and my swing was Pretty similar it. It's just a lot tighter and a lot better now Obviously I've gained speed and just kind of I understand the golf swing now. So, you know, I know what I need to look for, but that's kind of how George and I have met and it's been an awesome relationship ever since. You say you understand the golf swing better now. What does that mean? What have you learned about the golf swing and is it your swing in particular you think that you have especially

learned about? I've definitely just, I understand what I need to look for when I'm looking at my swing videos. Or, you know, I'll face I'm George a lot, a lot more than I probably should, but yeah, I just, I know what I need to look for and I understand when I'm doing something correct or I'm not. So, all right, let's set the scene for anyone that hasn't seen you play before. What is your game like? What are your strengths and what are your weaknesses? And I just I don't know if if the little bit of time you've spent out on the PGA tour has kind of helped you identify weaknesses if there are any, but define your game. Are you long, medium, short? Are you just a great putter?

What how would you define your game? Well, you week we have Stroke's game now and my stats are out of this top 10 and driving distance which is pretty cool because I'm 128 pounds, 130 pounds and I'm in it. I think my average is like 318 or something. So that's pretty cool just knowing that. As I get bigger I'm hopefully going to be one of the longer guys on tour when I'm 2021. So I did learn that I need to improve on the Part 5 scoring and, you know, I look back on the days and just trying to figure out what caused me to make cars or what did I not do to take advantage of the holes out there

because that's the biggest thing on the PGA tour I feel like. If you can play the Part V's great, then you can definitely make a lot of cash. Is there a noticeable difference in the way golf courses are set up compared to most of your experience and we're going to get to kind of India into some of your experiences with Monday qualifiers and whatnot? Obviously the majority of your experience experiences playing amateur golf events, does it feel like a really drastic difference compared to what you're mostly used to? I think the biggest thing is how much the golf course changes over the week as it goes

on. I mean, I played junior golf at some of the, you know, some really good golf courses, TPC, Sawgrass, PGA National, you know, Balthus Rall, and the courses here just get so firm so fast and the clubs, just the clubs in the greens are just so different. I remember playing Balths Bar and I was hitting eight iron from like 200 yards and it was landing 180 which is like never happens in junior golf or amateur golf. So I think that's the biggest thing that I've noticed on the PJ tour so far. Was that any, I guess you got some of that experience playing in the Walker Cup at Royal Liverpool

earlier this month? Had you played any links golf before? Was this your first experience doing that? Yeah, I knew I was going to be pretty close for the Walker Cup. So I ended up going to play the British amateur, the European amateur, and then British Hopin final stage qualifying. So I played a bit of a bit of a link sculf, but it wasn't anything like the Walker Cup back off courses, basically a true link sculf course. And the two irons are going 350 yards is pretty amazing. Did you enjoy that style play? Oh it's great. I mean the practice rounds that we had was cold windy rainy and then we

get to Saturday Sunday and it's 60 degrees and 10 miles of wind so it did definitely favored Americans going over there. But it's fun because you got to, I mean, you got to play more conservative and just different shots you got to hit from. I remember I was playing a fraction on my own. I hit two on from 180 and barely got to the green. Did you lean on any of your teammates that maybe had a little more experience playing that and kind of what what who did you play with over there and kind of what what did you get out of that experience from playing with such a incredible collective group of talent. I mean we're all we were all really good and we were I mean we're all still pretty new to Ling Skol if you're never gonna really figure that out but obviously Brandon Wu played in the open championship so his experience he kind of helped

us on, I guess, the type of shots he needed to practice before the rounds. And a player that stood at Haggisdeb, Mid Am, he was huge great. I mean, he played in the Walker Cup in 2017. So he knew what the feelings we would all get on that first tier in singles matches. So we kind of relied on him a little bit on what he had to say for us, but he knew we were all good enough to do it. And it's just a self-belief at the end of the day that brought the trophy home for us. You've played in team events before, junior presidents cup and junior writer cup, I believe

in my, if I have my records right, but did anything compare to competing in an event like the Walker Cup? Nothing. Nothing will ever compare to that. Once you play that, it's like your in fraternity for life. And just everything about that event, especially going overseas and the crowds are just unbelievable. And it's definitely prepared me for what I'm going to expect on the PGA tour and these bigger stages. But it's just something I'm just super happy to be part of.

Was, when did your plan on when you were going to be turning professional come about? I want to get into the specifics of why, you know, when did you, when did it become clear that you were going to wait till directly after the Walker Cup? And also, when did you kind of make it clear to yourself that you were not going to be attending college and we're going to be turning pro at a very young age? Yeah, so I mean, I grew up in L.A. I mean, I wasn't, I wasn't that good drawing up. I, we played the U.S. kids' world, my sister and I in Pine Nurse, North Carolina. And I was in that good drawing up. I played the US Kids World, my sister and I, and Pioneer's North Carolina. And I was eight years old.

That was a very good, I think I finished like 40th. But we were just checking some houses out and eventually moves to Raleigh, North Carolina in 2011. And I think I was right when we moved here, I was able to practice at some pretty nice facilities. And I think I just told my dad I was like, Dad, I just want to play golf. I don't enjoy school that much.

I just want to be out there on the golf course all day. And that's all I put my work and my passion towards. So I mean, I told my dad, I don't really have any interest in going to college. And obviously, when I was in eighth grade, I'm just saying that because I just want to play golf all day, but as time goes on, I got better and better and better and then last year was kind of the point

where I knew I was ready to compete. And I'm good enough to be out there. I just did so many great things and just proved to myself that I can be out on a PGA tour and my games good enough. So that was I guess the reason I turned pro just because of my mind was all set to it and there's never looking back. So are you officially homeschooled and when was the time frame of when that started and I guess what are you continuing school through like the end of this coming spring or how does your school schedule work? Yeah, so I think I started when I was right when I moved to North Carolina.

I think it was in eighth grade or freshman year, I started doing online school. I mean, it was just way more convenient. I could travel with schoolwork. I could get way ahead of my school and then I would have time to practice. So, I mean, it's been great. Obviously, you can't miss a lot of school. And as much as I traveled playing junior golf, I just was missing too much school. My principal wasn't too happy with it. So now it's just I've graduated early, I have my high school diploma which is awesome and you know if I ever need to do anything else, I have the opportunity to do it but I'm just in a great spot right now where I don't have to worry about finishing up school and I can just focus on what I need to do.

Without inditing yourself on any of this, what's the workload like for that kind of online school? Is it a significant weight off your shoulders and are you just able to get things done faster than sitting in a school building for six to eight hours a day or whatever it is? Yeah, it's definitely a lot easier. I get a better understanding when I do it on my own versus trying to listen in a classroom,

which is that silent. I just, I don't know, it's certainly easier and you can just get it done way faster than when schedules assignments are in school. How much of an influence did what Jack Nicholas jack nicklaus had to say about his college experience i believe what he told to you what how much of an influence that have on that on your decision making process and you can you uh... can you can you read back what he said to you

yeah so walker cop practice session we uh... for fortunate to play the bears club and have lunch with jack nicklaus and mat mat wolf he asked a question. He said, you know what, we have one of the players here. He's not going to go to college. What's your take on it? And he said, if you're going to play golf, then I don't see the point in going to school, which obviously was just something you wouldn't ever expected to come out of Jack Nicholas's mouth, but that was crazy, but obviously if you want to get a

education you want to get a degree and you focus on golf and school then you said that's great, but hearing that from him was kind of cool because he's obviously done some amazing things in this game and doesn't say anything against what I'm doing. Well, everyone tends to be an expert on these things and without really even knowing much of your backstory or your preparation process for the PGA tour. A lot of people, I guess the question should be, do you receive any advice or criticism about the process you've decided to take and how do you deal with that if so?

Yeah, I mean, it's gone both ways. Obviously, it's in a way, it was really hard not to go to college because at the end of the day, you want to win a national championship for the school or your team yourself and people say it's some of the best, you know, four years of your life. But a lot of people say you take the criticism and the motivation, you want to prove them wrong. Here, Brooks, Kevgett talk about it all the time.

And just seeing what Matt Wolfson call and stun, it's certainly inspiring that if I can do it, I can do the same thing just a little younger and hopefully you know this starts to have I can make the most of it and you know be on my way. What would you say is some of the best advice you've received so far? Probably just to be just be humble, have fun and you know you're good enough to be out here, just, you gotta truly believe that you are and just stay patient, really. Because obviously at 17, some people can try and stay at the golf course all day and you know, want to be out there, be in awe, but

you know, it's time to work and just be patient, just stay hungry and whatever happens happens. In following your progress these last few years, one thing that has always impressed me is your willingness and eagerness to put yourself out there in the most difficult of situations being, playing at a PGA Tour event, obviously any opportunity you get

to play in a professional event you're gonna take, but playing in a ton of Monday qualifiers, was there a moment, I guess, I guess a lot of people that haven't gone through that path, myself included, don't really know the major difference between playing top Amateur events and playing in Monday qualifiers, and they're both extremely competitive, but was there ever a time or a turning point where you felt like, whoa, I played in this and you know what, I belonged out there and that surprised me, and now I have way more confidence. Did you ever feel, is there any specific event that you look back at and say that was the turning point?

I don't know if there was a turning point, but probably the greatest feeling was winning the Jones Cup and earning my first PJ Tour exemption before I got into Valspar. That was probably the point where I was like, finally I'm in a PGA Tour event. I did it on my own and like, I'm ready to be out there and I can't wait. But just, I've done Monday qualifiers since I was 13 or 14 years old. And I've been so close to getting in so many times. It's like, I just want to get there. I want to get there. I've gotten into several playoffs. I've been on the cut all day, and then someone

shoots 61, and kicks me out. Or I mean, I'm going to qualify into one web.com of that this year, which is probably a great ceiling in the world. But how many Mondays would you say you've played? I'm going to say I've played at least 30 something. What's the mindset going into one of those things? I mean, because you got to take it deep. I mean, is it if you start if you're one over through four holes,

is it really easy to give up? I guess what if, how do you approach that kind of mindset mentally versus, you know, what is a four day tournament? Honestly, it's probably the greatest feeling in the world knowing that you have to go out and do something special and You can't I mean I've watched a bunch of I played with a bunch of guys who started out not so hot and End up making it so Yes, it's easy to give up But it also is just like you got a grind away

You got to focus harder than you'd ever imagine. On every shot, you can't let one shot slip away out there. I mean, it just prepares you to go low, and that's what you got to do on the Web. Or the corn fairy and P.J.S. where you got to learn how to shoot those low numbers, and when the qualifier is certainly healthy with those. So you've got seven sponsors' exemptions that you can use. What is your philosophy with that? One, is it pretty easy for you with the notoriety that you have for you to get some sponsors' exemptions into these events?

And is your philosophy going to be to use the first seven that you get? Is there any kind of brainstorming or application of experience that you're trying to apply towards using up those sponsor's exemptions? That's kind of where I lean more towards my sports agency because they've been out there, they've watched my agents watch me plenty of times, so he'll know what kind of golf courses I should play and what tournaments we should apply for. But I Mean, I have three straight start starting out this last week and you know if you can get hot then that's huge because

The momentum can definitely carry on towards these several weeks and you know, try and make as many FedEx cup points as I can. And hopefully if I need to take some time off and then I need to get ready for later on in the season, then I'll do that. So what is your goal with these exemptions? Are you, I assume you're going for special temporary membership? Is there any kind of backup plan, Q-score, anything else this fall regarding,

what is the backup plan saying? Because a lot of people don't appreciate how hard it is to get special temporary membership. You know, you need seven starts to basically earn as much as the one-twenty-fifth guy on last year's FedEx Cuplist obtained. So what is your plan? Let's say it doesn't work out. What's the next step for you? Yeah.

So second stage of Q school do at Southern Hills. I think that's sometime in November, whatever happens there happens, but if not, like I said, George and I always talk about being okay with anything, any outcome. And if I have to do money qualifiers and do it that way, and that's fine.

So just take it one time, one step at a time. All right, now we're going to go all the way back then to February at the Valspar. I know we kind of kind of talked a little bit around this, but I want to know, you know, you've never been one to shy around from the big stage as we mentioned. But all right, first T Thursday at the Valspar, did that feel any different than any other event you played in? Yeah. I was my heart was racing.

And I was the last tee time out. I was the last ball that I was hit that first day. And the wind was blowing. And Copperhead's not a very easy golf course. So I mean, that first of all, I just, I remember my family was there. And there's so many people around me. And one of my coaches at the time just said,

just hit it as hard as you can. I think that was my longest drive all week. I think I hit it like 340 or something. But now it's up the nervous. Were you star struck at all being out there? I mean, was there anyone that you kind of bumped into? You're like, oh, wow. I guess I'm really on the big stage now.

I don't know if I was stars, but it was cool. I think it was Wednesday or Tuesday. I was hitting balls and left to me with Dustin Johnson riding me. It was Jason Day. I was like, wow, this is this is pretty cool spot to be in. So I probably just beating around those guys obviously have done some pretty good things and thus some of the number one at the time. That's pretty cool. What did you learn that week? That I just, I want to be out there and that's the life I want to have. It was just, it was obviously a great experience and the support that I had going there was amazing.

I was thankful for the opportunity that Tracy West gave me that week. I definitely learned that I need to get better at my driving and my wedges because it's kind of where all those guys are doing better than me. That was definitely going to be one of my questions. But what is, so you two starts, what's the reception been like on tour? I mean, if guys gone out of their way to say hello to you, it especially nice to you what have you what kind of welcome have you felt out there I mean it's been great I've been running to anyone who's who's given me any beef but I mean it's it's great they kind of just treat me like another another guy and you know if there's anything I need

I can I can rely on some of these guys but it's been fun doesn't feel much different honestly I expected myself to be out here and thankful for the opportunities I have now so I mean it's it's awesome. You mentioned Pat and Kazai or anybody else you've you've sought out for practice rounds or who have you who have you been practicing with if anyone? Yeah I mean I was fortunate to play with John Raul at Valspar and I played with Harris English this week. I played with Sung Kang and Michael Kim. It's been pretty good.

Is there anyone who's career path that you look up to, especially regarding how they've made their way onto tour and how it compares to the way that you're trying to make it out on tour. Not really. I can't really think of anyone that inspired me doing what they've done. I've just seen walking Neiman and some of the guys that him win recently and some of the guys that have made it uh... you know him win recently and and uh... some of the guys that have made it made it to the tour without going to college i was i was i'm not sure if you're uh... if you're well versed in kind of the uh... some of the uh... some of the alternative

routes that other people have taken yeah i mean i guess walkie and stuffly one of them he was obviously really good growing up you know played the masters he did a lot of great things and junior golf and amateur golf and areas now. PGS were winter and to your exemption. And I think that was pretty cool. Just knowing that he did it from, you know, coming from Chile, it's not much going on there.

And there's not a lot of money going on there. So to see what he's done and the impact he has over over there in his own country is uh it's pretty cool. How many uh how many times does the name Taitrayon been mentioned to you? Uh not not many to me maybe to some other people but I actually played in a Monday qualifier I played in a playoffs against him which is is funny because I was like, oh wow, this guy's a, this guy turned pro really too. Did you pick his brain at all? No, I mean, we're playing against each other. Yeah, that's probably the best time in a playoff.

Are you do have any other, I guess, friends of people you had friendly relationships with professional golfers before you got out there? Anyone that's been available to kind of mentor you in any way, both before and after your decision to turn pro? Yeah, I mean, I get to practice with Chess and Hadley. They're going to mount Chris Wilson, who's got some status on the cornferrey tour. So I do, I hang out with Chess in a lot, is which is cool because he's he's funny He's you know, he's got a great outlook on life and I've talked to him a little bit just on The feelings I you get when you're on the cut line or when you're in contention because

He's had a good career so far and he's still out here, so Is there anything that they kind of help you with preparing why like things that you maybe wouldn't think about? I've always thought that you know tour life isn't quite as glamorous as people make it out to be or what that I what I once thought it was. Have you had any realizations like that just with transportation hotels anything like that that anyone's kind of helped you with? Not really. I mean my agency, my managers done a pretty good job of where I need to be and what I need to to notice. Overall, I kind of know what to do ever since I played Valsapar, which is great. Now that you're professional, is there anything you're going to spend some of

your new money on? Anything you're going to buy? Anything you're targeting? Maybe a car when I get enough money because I need to get my license first before I do that. But you don't have a driver's license? Not yet. Are you taking driving courses? What's the play it on that? I have my learners permit.

So you're good enough so far. Don't have to pay for insurance. But that's about it. Do you still live at home and do you have plans to move out? Yeah, I do live at home and hopefully, when the time's right, I'll find a place somewhere else. But for now, just, I'm traveling so much, there's no point in spending money on an apartment or anything.

Do you have anywhere where you're targeting potentially to live? There's golfers gather in only a few different places. Are you looking at one of those hubs to potentially live in? Not quite yet. I mean, I got to kind of find which who I want to hang out with and probably welcome. So just do what I need to do out here and hopefully some guys will kind of lead me to where I need to be or where I should be. And last one, I'll let you get out of here. I know you tournament starts tomorrow.

Where would you have gone to college if you were to go? Was there any, did you do any recruiting visits? Did you, you know, was there ever any effort put into that part of the process and what were the kind of some of the lead candidates? Honestly, I don't know where I would have went. I did a few college visits, but I definitely have to find somewhere where I would like to What would have a good, I guess, major? I don't know. That's a good question.

I don't follow college football or anything, so I don't even have a team for that. There was, there is not a question on this, but maybe you can help shine some light. We played in the junior players last year with a friend of yours, Cole and he you know, we asked kind of we asked him about other players and he told us about you. He said, I've never seen ox, a miss a put that matters. What does that mean? How many times did you break his back? I guess in matches or whatever. Uh, we've only played, we haven't even played together. We just, we've played the junior rider cup together and I think that's, I saw you there. Yeah, I was, I was, I remember this, you know, I was, uh, the US was getting just destroyed and I'm drowning my sorrows on a hill and you guys came rolling up and I was like, hey, don't, don't be like me.

Don't be this guy. Sit on the hill. Try to get a beer don't be like me. Don't be this guy. Sit on the hill. You're gonna be here. Be better than me. I don't know. That's probably my favorite part of the game. It's just I love the pot. I mean, I could be on the potting green for four hours

if you, if they would let me. Yeah, I've heard you pour in some hours on the potting green, is that right? Yeah, I don't know. I just, I feel like that's where all counts is. I mean, you can hit as close as you need to, but when you need to make 20 footers, or you need to make puts coming down the stretch

to make a cut or to win, I can lean on what I practice. There you go. All right, man, we'll let you get out of here. Thanks so much for dialing in. Look forward to following your journey out on tour. And best of luck to you, man. I know a lot of people here are rooting for you. Thanks, man. I appreciate it. You got it anytime, bud. See you. It's a great club. Be the right club today.

That's better than most. How about him? That is better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most.