No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 252: England's Golf Coast (Lytham, Birkdale, West Lancashire, Formby, Formby Ladies, Hillside, Southport & Ainsdale)

Episode Date: October 9, 2019

Part I of my England debrief goes deep into the links courses played on this trip (Royal Lytham, Royal Birkdale, West Lancashire, Formby, Formby Ladies, Hillside, & Southport & Ainsdale). We talk cost, the highs and lows of these courses, what makes each one special, and England golf in general. This was a dream trip to a very special part of the golf world, and can't wait to make it back to the region. Stay tuned for Part II which will include the Heathland courses played on the trip.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yeah! That is better than most. That is better than most. Better than most! Ladies and gentlemen welcome back to the No-Lang up podcast. Thank you for downloading this episode I am going to start it off with the largest disclaimer Maybe ever in the history of this podcast and that this is going to be a solo podcast for only the second time ever I believe I did one of these after an Ireland trip I took with my dad in the fall of 2016 and everything changed very very shortly after that I think the very next episode that we recorded was with Roy McElroy I actually remember talking to the guys like, hey, should we, before we post this,

should I delete the solo podcast? I knew we'd have a bunch of new people on the feed and I didn't want people to look back and be like, wait, what the hell is a soul? Who the hell record, who would care about your damn golf trip? I was not planning to do this episode, but did get enough DMs and stuff on Instagram about the trip asking, say, I can't wait to hear about it, can't wait to hear about and stuff on Instagram about the trip asking

say I can't wait to hear about it, can't wait to hear about it. It was a solo trip with my dad, I guess so not a solo trip, but it was with my dad. We went through the Northwest coast of England, England's Gulf Coast, if you will, and then we also went down to London for a little while, played some Heathland golf, and I'm guessing this is probably going to have to end up being two parts because we played a lot a lot of golf courses that we played in order. Form B ladies club, hillside, West Lancashire, Southport, Nainesdale, Form B, Royal Lidham and St. Anne's and Royal Burkdale all while staying in one hotel in Southport.

And actually you could probably do, you could do all those except for for Lhythm without having to get in a car, which is nuts. I mean, if you stay in Southport, you can jump on a train. You can be at a couple of these places in just one or two stops, a couple of them are five or six. You can access liver pool easily by that train line. It's it's nuts how easy and how great the infrastructure is in that part of the world. The second half of the trip we went down to Surrey, detoured a bit on our way to London and played at Holland Well Golf Club.

Otherwise known as Nott's Golf Club, then carried on to Walton Heath, the old course there. Sunnydale, the old course, the Berkshire Red, Nott Berkshire, as I was informed via Instagram. And finally, St. George's Hill. It was, man, it was about as good of a golf trip. I, everyone keeps asking,

what's your favorite between Scotland and Ireland and England? And, you know, England kind of gets forgotten about in a lot of these. And my answer for that going forward is just gonna be wherever I was most recently, is probably gonna be my favorite. And, man, it's been so freaking cool to visit some of these places.

And England is just, there's there's just so many golf courses. I kind of double back on some courses that I'd already been to before, and I feel, and I really enjoy them. I mean, it's one thing, you go to these courses, you enjoy the hell out of them, and you say, man, I can't wait to come back. And rarely do you get the chance,

because we're usually on to the next thing, trying to see different places, trying to cover different places, but it was nice to come back. I didn't do this trip for content really. I filmed a couple videos while I was there. But my dad retired this year, said, I want to go. He'd been to Ireland, been to Scotland. He said, I saw what you did in England, especially those links courses. And I want to go back. I want to go there, take me there. And we did. And it was awesome. I mean, he's, he just turned 60. And he said, I don't know how long I've got walking a ton of,

you know, maybe 36 a day and all that. And we just had an absolute blast. It was a 10 day trip in total, cover those two major regions that we talked about. And again, I think England might be the most golf rich country in the world. I'm gonna touch on that topic as well as all of those 12 courses. Answer some questions from Twitter. Appreciate everyone that sent those in.

The aforementioned trip that I'd previously taken to the Northwest of England was with Tron in the spring of 2017. Those podcast episodes are still out there if you'd rather hear, you know, two people talk about golf courses in a more conversational way than this will be. Episode 73 and 74 in our archives. Fair warning, those are pre-microphone days. Audio quality is pretty much what you'd expect. It's going to be really hard for me to differentiate between these courses. There's only so many ways of saying like, this was sick, this was sick, this was my favorite.

I love this, this was great, blah, blah, blah. It's going to be a lot of that for however long it takes me to record this. But it really was as epic of a trip as I can remember having, excluding the Scotland, Northern Ireland, England, 38 day trip that I did right after I quit my job and before I came back and did this full time. I still can't believe that trip actually happened. That actually numb me to golf by the end of it. This was a great length of trip and I left kind of being like, man, I could be here for another week and play.

The Heathland Golf is what really, really captured me and I'm going to get to that eventually. I set out for some Twitter questions, got some good ones, going to get to a few of those as we go along. I touched on this in the beginning, but usually on a golf trip for us, it involves filming, droning, interviewing, packing up, moving, but it was so, so enjoyable to sit in the same hotel for six consecutive nights in Southport. We stayed at the Lord Street hotel. I think it was about 85 pounds a night, two twin beds there for myself and my dad.

As much as people will give me shit for being in the sea suite, I do tend to travel a bit on the strap side budgets. I think my dad would have sprung for a little more of an expensive or nicer hotel room, but I'm used to traveling like that and it worked out great. I had the place pretty much to ourselves. It was a very quiet hotel. It was not really filming. I filmed two crash course videos. Our new series on our YouTube channel. For those that aren't familiar with that head to there, there's a video on the Form B Ladies Club, which is the first course I'll

get to as well as Holland Well. Of course, I was extremely excited to get to. But like I said, we often get to these places and say, can't wait to come back and we rarely do. And as you might imagine, my thoughts on the golf courses change pretty much each time I play them. And I hate ranking them. You can't help slide some courses around I guess after seeing them in different conditions and man the more and more I do this the more I'm leaning on I might not be able to separate how I played from what I think of the actual golf course but uh stray vacation with my dad perhaps maybe perhaps little teaser out there there might be a bit of

location scouting for a future tourist saw season. The only issue I see now being is I don't know which region we're going to choose if we do go to England because you could set up shop to do the Heathland courses in Surrey for an ungodly amount of time. And as you're about to hear the golf in the North, the links golf in the Northwest corner of England is out of this world. J smooth 1140 on Twitter asked, what's the next part of the world that you haven't been to that gets your golf juices flowing? It's, it's, it's isn't the next part of the world. It's literally the part that I just came from, which is England.

It's, I mean, there's, there's maybe 30, at least 30 golf courses there that I've heard of and read about and gotten familiar with that I want to get to. They're just not in the maybe the most convenient places. England's a lot bigger geographically than you might think it is. Scotland's really easy to kind of shoot around. It's just a totally different kind of landscape getting to and from a lot of these places in England and there's so many just great pockets.

There's north of London, there's southeast of London where Royal St. George's and Royal St. Port are. There's South of London, way South of London on the coast, kind of near where Rai is. There's a bunch of courses in the Southwest. I've never even been out there. Gosh, you'd go over into Wales and play a bunch of them. It's just so unexplored for myself.

And I think it kind of speaks to how golf is marketed between Scotland, Ireland and England. And of those three, England is definitely the place that I think is the least visited, at least for Americans. It's just you don't see the tour vans, you know, of just dropping off tons of Americans. There was a lot more of that at the Royal courses, Royal Burkdale and Royal Lotham and St. Anne's. I ran into a few bag tag berries, but you're going to see so many more of those in Scotland and Ireland. And you're not in remote places, so you don't feel like you are exploring places that are undiscovered. You know, all these places are very well populated, and there's a lot of members playing, but it does, you do feel like you're just kind of visiting

a club that's in its natural habitat. Like when I go to Royal Dornick, it doesn't feel like I'm visiting like the members at Royal Dornick. It feels like, okay, there are a ton of guest T times, you know, hit after hit after hit. Members of course have their T times and they're time today that they can play, but you just feel, it just feels like, you know, the only, only people that have really been to Scotland and Ireland are going to be, are going to be showing up in England. That's not 100% of course, but it just seems like once people have played those places, it's, they, they start to explore and go to England. Am I, I was the same way?

And, you know, when we went a couple of years ago, I couldn't wait to come back and it's, it's not, it's definitely not because the quality of golf is any less. It doesn't have the history that Scotland has or it has a shitload of history. When I say that, I mean, yes, I mean, these courses were like designed in the late 1800s and early 1900s, but it doesn't have a St Andrews and the home of golf and all that stuff that fits in very well with marketing. Please do not misinterpret that as any kind of shitting on Scotland.

It's still probably my favorite place in the world to play golf. But it's just, this is something special. And we're going to, we're going to uncover a lot of that as we get to a bunch of these golf courses. I felt like the clubs that we went to also just didn't, they didn't feel like they needed the visitors as much as the, not the same vibe we got in Ireland and Scotland.

Some places are just super excited to have you there because they help the visitors help keep the do's of the club extremely low. And it really is comical how how small the do's are at a lot of these places. But it's probably why people like myself included tend to prioritize the other two countries. But again, it is no in no way, shape or form inferior. It's not to say we didn't feel welcome at these places. Either the members were super nice. They obviously hear your accent.

They know you're not from around there. And they'll come out of the way to say hello to you, what brought you here, and what else are you playing? Oh, you should really check out this place. Make sure you don't miss this one. The hospitality element is still there, despite it not being just pushed on the potential visitors nearly as much as it is the other places and back to what I was saying earlier about England just having the incredible volume of great golf courses

It's not necessarily Essential to have a huge volume of great golf courses to play in a trip because you can go to Scotland You can visit two regions and just play nothing but incredible courses You're never gonna set out to play all of these courses on one trip and you don't have to play every golf course in a country to have a great trip. But every time I've been to England, I walk away feeling like I've got so much more to see

and I know that sounds very rich after the 12-day bender, but that's exactly the point. Like I barely made, I feel like I barely made a dent in the landscape out there. Lastly, before we do that, I'm speaking on my own personal experience here when I say, for people that haven't played in England or traveled around, their understanding of the geography of the golf is very poor there. I was the exact same way.

Before I went there, I had no idea where a Liverpool, Royal Burkdale, and Royal Lovum in St. Anne's. Golf courses we all know from the UK British Open presented by our Majesty, we're all less than an hour drive from the Southport area where we stayed. That's exactly where we set up shop. All these historic clubs are built right next to these train stations. That's how people got to and from golf courses in the 1800s and early 1900s. It's, I can't describe how cool it is.

Every time a train rolls by, I grab the cameras fast as I could. I don't know why I love trains rolling by golf courses. I always do a mandatory crowd wave at the train as it rolls by. We did not go down to Royal Liverpool. The Walker Cup was getting ready as we were there. The club was shut down for all visitor play in that time period. We didn't get out to wallacy down there. Try not to I went there a couple years ago, really enjoyed that golf course,

but we stayed, stayed pretty close to where we were staying. One final question before we get going on the golf courses from Reg, Hughitt on Twitter, he said, is there a difference in terms of spirit slash golf soul between England, Ireland and Scotland? I'm sure there is a difference. I'd, I'd struggle to define that difference for me personally as a visitor,

the parts that strike me in the golf soul to use the words he used there, there isn't a difference. It hits you in the exact same way. And that's as much fun as I can have playing golf. How do I stay here forever? How do I find a way to spend a couple months here and just walk around and play all these golf courses?

Because again, we'll touch on this too. One question we got from Chai Town Golf Guy. How excesses are these courses for the public? Every single one of these courses we played on this trip is accessible via credit card. You can call them up, book a visitor of tea time. I'm gonna go through the rates for every golf course that we played.

They vary greatly depending on the time of year, depending on the day of the week and whatnot. But again, a big difference between golf here in the US and golf in the UK and Ireland is all of these courses are available for play. That's not to say every course in both of those countries is available for play, but everyone that we're going to go through today

And LUNAGE How are you? That's right. It's the merch are shamelessly interrupting this podcast to say you some CBD products from our friends over an herbal active If you're anything like me, you're probably sick of hearing the acronym CBD and the claims that it cares everything from cancer to restless leg syndrome I along with the rest of the NLU crew and the claims that it cures everything from cancer to restless leg syndrome. I, along with the rest of the NLU crew, thought that as well. And we were ready to say thanks, but no thanks. However, we gave the samples they sent us a two-week trial,

and when the supply ran out, everybody was kind of wondering sheepishly if there was a re-upcoming. And personally, I've noticed a huge difference in sleeping better and unless joint soreness, especially when I put the herbal active drops in my coffee for a few days straight, and then if I forget to take them, the sleepiness, and the groginess in the morning, and the soreness is very noticeable. That's my expert non-medical amateur opinion, and if you don't trust me, take it for my mom. She's been trying to give me to take CBD for the last year, after she got her hip or place. She swears

by it. And per usual, Peggy was right. So if you're at all curious about CBD, I whole heartedly recommend you give herbal active a try. Don't waste your time on the gas station in Bodega knockoffs. Go to herbalactive.com and use the code NLU20 for 20% off. That's urbalactive.com and NLU20 all over case for 20% off. And it wouldn't be an NLU podcast if we didn't have a little something in here from our friends over at Calloway who just unveiled their new JAWS MD5 wedges featuring the most aggressive grooves in golf. Simply put, the JAWS wedges are awesome. The JAWS MD5 is a breakthrough in wedge craftsmanship and

performance from Caloay's chief designer Roger Cleveland. Who's a legend I'd like to add? And his team, they've created a new JAWS groove along with proven groove in groove technology to take spin and control to the next level Simply put I'm dialed at the flushing meadow pitch input these days The walls edges and angles are all milled into the face to achieve the sharpest edges and tightest Tolerances ever from Calloway. Nice littleeration, guys. The result is a wedge that's built for total performance. And every detail from the optimized head progression to the five grind options has been perfected

to help get the most out of your short game. It also means if you go to CallowayGolf.com, you're probably going to spend way too much time figuring out what lie, what loft, and what grind is right for you. It's kind of fun. So give it a try. CallawayGolf.com.

That's all I got. Sully, I'll let you keep rantin' about English golf. See ya. Alright, first up, Form B Ladies Club. This was my first time playing this golf course. I had been to Form B before. I had played FormB golf club. So there's two clubs within one piece of property. We flew into Manchester, got our car headed straight there.

We have a tee time a few days later, maybe three days later at 4B golf club, but we were first set up to play the ladies course. I'd heard about it and even glanced over at it when we played KVV and I played for and be back in 2017. And honestly, I could, I, that first hole, I could vividly picture it in my head for that entire two year period. It was so unique. And when they told me about the course, the idea of a 5300 yard golf course that both men and women could play, it was, it was, it was seriously intriguing to me. Perfect course to play straight off the plane. Several par fours that are under 300 yards. The par fives were essentially like medium length par fours ranging from like about 410 yards to 435 yards. But it's not a breeze. It's not simple. It's not just really dull and boring and straightforward golf holes. It's

challenging. I wouldn't call it difficult, but it's challenging. And I think that there's a difference between the two. I'm hopefully going to flush that thought out over the course of these podcasts as best I can. But basically, what I like to chase in golf is a proper challenge. And that's way, way, way more fun to me than a course that's really difficult. So like the first hole is 261 yards, but the T sits left of a fair way that bends right to left. And I promise I'm not going to break down every single hole one by one, but the direct line to the green on that first toll is covered in Heather.

Now what Americans think of as Heather is, you know, we just basically call any Fescue, any tall grass we end up finding a way to call it Heather, but actual real Heather is kind of like a, I'll probably mess this but actual real Heather is kind of like a I'll probably mess this up, but it's it's kind of like Gorse It's a small amount of Gorse, but it's beautiful in the summer It has this purple tint to it. It frames the fairways really nicely But man, you do not want to be in that stuff you can find the ball most of the time But it is basically the thickest possible rough you could have it just is gonna grab your club head

You can't you can't like whip a six iron through it in any way. You're hacking out into the middle of the fairway. But yeah, it's kind of gorsy, kind of thorny. And it's beautiful, but again, it's a nightmare. So the whole exercise of this golf course is to avoid this heather. So naturally 261 yards, just boom, bang one right at the green, right?

Well, if you miss the green green you're probably in the Heather because the it's really firm on this kind of turf And it's gonna roll and see they're gonna stop in a bunker or in the Heather so when you stand on that tee It's pretty clear that the proper play is to hit about a seven iron off the tee Fairways extremely narrow only goal you have is to avoid the Heather and Fairways extremely narrow. Only goal you have is to avoid the Heather. And I mean, naturally, I of course, I got this new Epic Forge driving iron, so I had to go for it.

I mean, what the hell? It hit the turf hard, and thankfully it got swallowed up by a bunker right next to the green, not in a bad spot. But that's kind of what I'm going for here is, I had to take on risk for this shot. It's a 260 yard shot, but it was not easy. It was not simple. I mean, it's an easy hole. I'm going to probably, you know, birdie that hole a fair amount of time, but I took on the risk in one. And if I missed it, I was

probably making bogey, but it was thrilling. It was, it's not an easy shot, despite it being 261 yards, wind is down off the left. So it's really got, you really got to try to hold it up and hit a draw. Again, I'm not going to go hold by hole, but that's kind of what it was like. I mean, I think some people when you think of like about a 50, 300 yard golf course, you're think you're just going to kind of get dumb silly little straight forward golf holes. And it's just simply not the case. Next hole is like a 410 downwind, par 5. Again, just got to avoid the Heather. I hit a 5 iron off this tee, and I still hit it in the Heather, but you muscle an eight iron out of the Heather

and hit it up near the green. Four is an awesome 280 par four into the win. It's enticing enough to go for driver. The fifth is an awesome stunning par three. It would fit in any golf course in the world. And the course just winds through dunes, through pines. You get great views of Clubhouse. The 4B Clubhouse is one of my favorite Clubhouses

in golf. We'll talk a little bit more about Form B later on as we get to that part. But for a lot of golf courses, ladies' teas are not set up in very good places. A lot of the golf courses, frankly speaking, are not designed for women. And a lot of them are often too difficult for women.

I mean, they just kind of plop them in. They're too far back And a lot of them are often too difficult for women. I mean, it's just they just kind of plop them in, you know, they're too far back in a lot of cases. And it's just how it is. And this one is obviously an exception. The form be golf club does not have women members. The form be ladies club does not have male members, but they are allowed to play each other's clubs. So it's not, it's exclusive in, in a way, but it's also kind of not. Both courses are accessible and, and, uh, they're, it's not uncommon to go see the men go play the, the ladies club because it is a mental exercise and it's, it's quite a fun. You get all the links, elements with the wind, the turf, it's in tremendous condition. It's just a perfect course for us to play right off the plane. You got to stay disciplined.

Uh, and it would, again, we'll get to form B, but it would be an awesome 36 whole day to play both courses in the same day. I love playing 36 a day, but sometimes two championship length golf courses in one day while walking is a bit much, but this would be a perfect fit. I always think 18's not enough, 36 is too many.

And, but if you tag team form B golf club and form B ladies, that'd be a great day. I shot 67 at the ladies club. A lot of people were giving me shit, but in the video for saying that I left a few out there, but the standard scratch score there is 66, basically. So the 67 was basically equal to about a 73.

I was 40 through five. I thought I was gonna shoot 59, but I kind of forgot that. It's a very big theme on this trip that all those downwind holes going out. I cruised and then coming back inward was a bit of a struggle. So, if you're not gonna head to Form B Ladies Club,

please do take me up on this suggestion. If there's a course you play often, your local muni, your local public course, your local country club, whatever it is, if you play there often, mix it up with your buddies sometimes and just play the red teas. There was an event at Tim Aquana Memorial Day this year where we played six red teas, six white teas, six blue teas. And I hit shots that I've never hit on that golf course and it was awesome.

I mean, some of the par five's turned into, you know, just 440 par fours. But now I'm seeing different bunkers. I'm seeing different lines and different considerations. And if you're used to playing a course on cruise control with your brain turned off, I promise this will change that. So it's a fun exercise, try it out. Form B ladies club in the summer, it's between 62 and 72 pounds to play.

Multiply that by about 1.25 as of this date to reach your US dollar price. And that's gonna obviously apply for all the golf courses. But can't say enough cool things about Form B ladies club. Don't be turned off by the name. You will likely be humbled if you come in thinking you're just going to tear this place apart because there's enough out there to get you in trouble. If you hit even a little bit wayward shots after a bit of sleep,

our next stop on Friday was Hillside. They hosted the British Masters this year. It shares a border with Royal Berkdale. As you come down the 18th hole just across the dune, you can climb up the hill and peak over if you really want to. Is the 17th fairway at Royal Berkdale. You can see the Berkdale Clubhouse, all that. And then just on the other side of the tracks

is Southport and Ainsdale. So the three courses literally sit on the other side of the tracks is Southport and Ainsdale. So it's the three courses literally sit on the same exact terrain and setting. Again, as a championship course right next door and two awesome golf courses right next to it. Fred Hatchery redesigned the course in the 1960s. On the website, they claim it as the finest links not to have hosted the open championship.

Greg Norman claimed the back nine holes as the best nine holes in Britain and top 100 courses.com has it as the 23rd ranked golf course in England. So I want to set the scene with how much praise this place has gotten as I'm going to critique it a little bit. It's a risky thing to do here because I know a lot of people, you know, I'm trying to separate out between some of the best golf courses in the world. And it's really difficult.

And I can sit here and tell you that every course is the best ever, but if you're planning a trip and you are trying to prioritize stuff, that's not going to help you a whole lot. So along that same vein, I want to talk a bit about expectations and how that affects what you think of a golf course. So a place that comes in like this really highly praised, I mean, it's hard not to get excited for it, hard not to get really get your hopes up. I had played it once before and I'll say the courses that I'd played, that we played on this trip that I'd heard very little about automatically have such an advantage. The barc sure in London comes to mind.

I knew next to little about it. Thiraly enjoyed it. I wouldn't have to believe in large part because I had no expectation. The opposite is probably the case for Hillside. I hear people just rave about the back nine, say it's the finest nine holes in England. Greg Norman of course just said it as I mentioned above. The front nine is a bit underwhelming and you know, everyone's what everyone says, wait till you get to the back nine. We just didn't have that experience, my dad and I. And he was, we were pretty much aligned in this one. Again, this is where I have to wonder whether my shitty play affected my opinion.

But that course in tough cross wins, it just felt like a bit much. It's not wide. And with the rain, they've had this summer, the rough was, it was, it was thick with two seas, Dennis. I lost like four or five balls in the back nine. I didn't, I didn't feel like I deserved that. And I know that's probably an eye rolling comment. But I was four or five feet off the fairway on some of these. And we just couldn't find it. I mean, if you missed the fairway by even

a little bit, your ball was toast. I think I made like six birdies and I shot 80 because I had six or seven doubles or worse. It was just, it was a bit intense. And when I say that, I like a good challenge. I'm trying to think of like a mid-handi-capper when I talk about this as well because it was the course my dad enjoyed the least.

The wind was whipping, it wasn't a real pretty summer day, but I just remember spending too much time looking for golf balls, more so than any other day on the trip. On a sunny and calm day that we would have played better, we might have had a totally different experience. There are some excellent, excellent golf holes out there.

I love the 10th, I love the 11th, and the dunes really do come alive on the back nine. But the two nines feel a bit disconnected. And again, I want to stress that we're splitting hairs among some of the sickest golf courses in the world. I'm not recommending skipping hillside. I just personally prefer some of the other courses we played on this trip.

Hillside summer rates range from 160 to 190 pounds. Fall and spring rates are between 110 and 135. I did get a Twitter question as well, someone saying how bad is hillside overrated? And I also got another question, and said hillside is easily the best of all those courses. So I do think it depends on your day. I would love to play hillside again,

maybe in slightly different conditions when the rough is not quite as bad as it was. It just stuck out kind of from the rest of the, of course, as we played on this trip as far as how much time we spent looking for balls, and it is my least favorite thing to do while playing golf. It was not the worst round I played on this trip, so please don't, please don't assume that I'm

slotting it in near the bottom just because, you couldn't find your ball. It just doesn't quite add up. I'm trying to come up with an analogy that, I don't know if I'm ready to debut this yet, but I'm gonna try. Basically, I'm not saying this isn't one of the best courses in England, but if someone, I might be a fan

of the hundredth ranked Restaurant in Jacksonville, but if they've got one or two things on that menu that I love, it might be one of my favorites. And if everyone over there loves, you know, the 20th ranked restaurant in Jacksonville, but their menu is just a bit not my style or just doesn't quite, you know, they got, I'm a picky eater. They got too much shit in the food. A lot of other people might really enjoy the variety and the different things they can get. But you know, what I like this one thing on the menu over here. And for me, that's the next course.

Is West Lancashire, it doesn't even sniff hillside in any rankings, and it absolutely blows my mind. Because for, and again, it's going to come back to expectations. I have no idea how West Lancashire is the 44th ranked course in England. That's where top 100 golf courses.com ranks it. I consider that to be a pretty good and unbiased ranking source much much less scummy than the golf digest or golf.com lists or anything like that. I even heard from a member there that one list that they

saw had them ranked like 66th or something. It's not even in Tom Doak's confidential guide on Great Britain and Ireland. And I'm personally I got to put the royal courses in a different category. They really are next level. We're going to break down those courses. The West Lanks is easily my favorite non-royal course on England's golf coast. It's the truest links. It's right up against the sea.

The breezes a bit more extreme. I heard from a lot of people saying, this is actually the most difficult of all of them. Like holy shit, what a difficult golf course. They do have some open qualifying there on a near annual basis. I don't know if it's every year. But the golf holes are just tremendous.

It's what I call simple links. Like it's pretty straightforward. You can see where you're going, and you can see, hey, there's a bunker right there that I need to avoid. On the second hole, it's par five. There's two bunkers short and left of the green, and there's one short right. And the way the wind comes in from the left, you just got

to position yourself to run up a shot. All you got to do is put these two bunkers. It's so straightforward, it's so simple, but I just love it, and it's so well designed. When I say simple, I don't mean that it's not brilliant, because I really do think that it is. The holes are extremely well defined, and you are chart kind of charting yourself around. There's a giant contour, short left of the third green that you got to avoid, this short kind of short part three. Great mix of long part threes and short part threes, long fours and short fours.

It's a couple of drivable ones, depending on what tease you play. This night was no doubt helped by the best weather we got, the whole time in the area. But this is my third time coming to Westlanks. And you know, I went back, you know, in summer of 17, I thought, you know what, I know you and Tron loved it in the spring, but you probably overrated it just because you hadn't heard of it. And I loved it even more the second time. And on the third time I came back, it somehow keeps getting better. It's one of the 10 oldest clubs in England. It was founded in 1873.

It's got an extremely simple modest clubhouse. It was designed by C.K. Cotton. Again, train station right next to it. It runs right along the 11th hole. The back nine stretch from 11 to 15 is just spectacularly 11. There's an awesome par five again right against the train tracks, which I visited with my second shot. A long par 312, the par 413th is an amazing whole

blind tee shot on the 14th. And then you go back and play the 15th, this whole that's just jammed right up against that wall that borders the train tracks again, heading the opposite direction. It's just special. If you go to this area and don't play West Lancashire, I will be disappointed in you.

Again, it doesn't reach the top of a lot of rankings. And if you go off that, you may not end up here, but it gets my top recommendation. You don't need a recommendation for the Royal courses. You're probably already playing them. And as much as I hate ranking them, West Lancash is a clear number one. I can't be much more clear on that in that next tier of courses.

And again, that might be personal preference, but everyone I've ever talked to that has gone and played it has had nothing but glowing things to say about it. The price is 125 to 150 in the summer, around 80 to 95 pounds in the fall and 90 to 110 pounds in the spring. So it's even a little more affordable than Hillside is and it just doesn't quite come with that expectation. Now I may have ruined the expectations

by that glowing endorsement, but I am willing to sign off on that. My dad absolutely loved it. There were not really any courses that we were far apart on any of these. It helped that he played really, really well out there and he loved it. But it's, go to West Lancashire.

I promise you won't be disappointed. You might see the clubhouse and kind of think you're not in a special place, but once you get out in that golf course, I promise you it's special. All right, onto the next course, Southport and Ainsdale. So when we go on these trips, we often get a lot of messages from local people inviting us out to their local courses. It is so, so, so generous, so greatly appreciated.

And it sucks, but we're rarely able to make it work. We come with full itineraries, rarely do we have full four hour windows at time that we need to kill. But it works out great sometimes in the UK and in Ireland because God, the pace of play over there is insane. There were courses that, you know, some of the places we play with members, they say if you play in four hours,

like you're getting a letter from the secretary, and that's a four ball. And if you're a two ball, and if you're even like sniffing three-thirty, like you are holding up the golf course, and it's just, it's amazing that the stark difference. And everybody's walking, everyone uses a trolley. I strongly, strongly believe that golf carts

with two people in them slow down the game of golf. I have no doubt. The only thing faster I've seen than walking with a trolley or a push cart is the golf board, which I did that at True Blue in Myrtle Beach. I've really, really enjoyed that. I thought that was incredible for pace of play, but English are no exception to this. They keep amazing pace of play. And again, we always come with full eye tenderaries. And this day was actually an exception. It was a Sunday. My dad, he was up for 18 holes a day.

18 is rarely enough for me as I mentioned. We had an afternoon tea time at Form B. And a gentleman named Stu slid in the DMs, offered up around at South Port Nainesdale. I'd seen it from hillside. You can look right across the train tracks and see it. I kind of, my image of it was pretty, I don't know what I'm saying other than my expectations

were low again. I kind of thought it was easily the third best of those three courses that are all lined up together. And I've been curious about it, but it wasn't a big priority for me to get over there. But when he said he could arrange for us to tee off before the club even open, it's awesome. I was like, okay, great.

And he and I went off at about 7.40 and went out and had just an absolute treat of a morning. It's a James Brade golf course designed in 1922, held the Ryder Cup in I think 1937, I believe. And again, this is where I come back to expectations. I kind of viewed it as the third tier course, figured it was overshadowed by its neighbors for a reason. Wrong, I loved it.

It does help that I struck the shit out of it on that morning. Just, just couldn't make it to Pots. Wonderful, pure links course. For me, it flowed much better than Hillside does from, from one to 18. I felt like I was playing the same golf course. It was the best bunkered course.

One of the best, I should say, one of the best bunkered course, one of the best, I should say, one of the best bunkered courses we played in the area, Lhythm's gonna take the crown on that one. But it gave me what I call the exercise in my mind. It's like essentially the puzzle that you got to solve off every T. And the strategy I found best is to clearly define, maybe even say out loud, what bunkers you are taking out of play and what bunkers You're trying to take on

This is not a golf course where you just reach back and you know pound driver over all the trouble because again It's firm. You don't want it rolling off into the tall stuff like like we did out there at Hillside But otherwise if you if you don't clearly say out loud and and kind of think through what you want to do You can caught in between you can get caught in between strategies and make some really poor swings. So if you're going to play short of a bunker, you have to take a club that cannot reach a bunker. And the ball's rolling out at all these places. It wasn't nearly as fast and firm as what we got in Scotland last year.

But if you're trying to take on the bunker on the left, meaning you're hitting a club that will go in that bunker if you hit it on that line. You gotta identify that bunker that you're avoiding and you gotta either decide, hey, I'm covering this one and I'm taking this one on, meaning I'm gonna cover this bunker on the right, but this bunker on the left is gonna be trouble for me

if I hit it on that line. So it might mean you have to lay back a ton. It might mean you might need to hit driver to take certain bunkers out of play. You get that over and over and over again at South Port name style. And it was just tremendously condition had quirk to it wonderfully contoured. It was just an overall treat. First hole is 190 yard par three. Some people don't like that. I'm way, way in on par three openers green contour there. It's really friendly. It's kind of got a punch bully kind of thing going on in the front. It's a little tough, you know, rolling

out of the car and hit a five iron at 740 in the morning, but it's a nice little warm-up hole, and it I loved it. The 16th hole is the hole you see from the train and what you'll see from hillside. It's a blind second shot over a huge dune, has some bunkers on it with railroad ties, shout out Pete Die, easily my favorite hole on the golf course. And they're just some seriously meaty par fours on this course. I had a ton of five iron, six irons in the greens that there weren't even necessarily playing into the win. We actually, I didn't play very far back much on this trip.

We played back at Southport, Dainesdale's about 6,800 yards, which is kind of a rarity on this trip, but absolutely no qualms. I have no shame about moving up boxes on links courses, because the yardage just ends up being so damn irrelevant. 6,800 yards there and my mine equals about 7,200 stateside, just in terms of difficulty. I know the ball goes a lot further on a lot of that turf,

but man, you get some of those holes into the wind and we're gonna get there, live them. A lot of par fours end up not even being reachable. South Port and Ainsdale is 135 to 150 pounds in the summer. 100 to 120 in the fall and spring. Again, I don't know where I was kind of coming from thinking this was a third tier course pricing wise. It's up there and I wouldn't call it expensive was coming from thinking this was a third tier course pricing wise.

It's up there and I wouldn't call it expensive, but it's not cheap. I do think it's worthwhile. If I had the option to pay whatever 135 to 150 to play there or pay 160 to 190 at Hill side, it would be a pretty easy decision for me. And I would be heading back to South Port Nainesdale. Great clubhouse, just awesome vibes. I wish I could describe it. There's just nothing fancy about it.

It's kind of simple locker rooms and I just got a smile on my face looking back and thinking about it. Next up on that Sunday afternoon, back to Form B this time for Form B golf club. We met up with a member who's led in the DMs. His name was Jordan. This really does add to the experience.

If you get a chance to play with any members on any of your trips, it's definitely worth it. I cannot speak for any club, but usually if you ask them to set you up with a member, sometimes members will volunteer. And it's just really nice to have a bit of a tour guide. You end up learning more along the way and it makes you kind of appreciate things

a little bit more than maybe you would if it was, you know, for me, just the courses we played with members and with local people, it just helps to hear the accent while you're playing, it just reminds you of where you are and otherwise you're kind of getting, you're just getting a different experience. So if you're doing something with a group that's smaller than four, I would try to do that as much as you can. Form B golf club, again, this is different than Form B ladies, same piece of property, but very different kind of experience. The very different than the other courses on this list.

It's got easily the most trees of any of them. They're not really in play. If you're behind one of them, you are, you're going to deserve to be. It's a mixture of a links course and a Heathland course. It's got a lot of Heather out there on it. It all plays the same. It's the same kind of sandy soil, same types of shots. And we're going to talk a lot more about that when we get to get to the Heathland part. The course opened in 1884. It was redesigned by Willie Park Jr. in 1912. James

Brade came in and did some work. Harry Colt was involved and it's been touched up plenty over the years. It used to run seaside, but due to erosion, they moved the whole course in Linda bit. It's just a really, really solid golf course. It's not spectacular. It doesn't have ocean views. It doesn't have the true what I would call standout holes, but it's got a ton of really good and enjoyable golf holes.

One of the coolest clubhouses in golf aesthetically, I mean, it's just, most of my pictures from that day are just of the clubhouse and the different views of it you get. The members were so nice. Funny story two years ago, KVV and I, that's Kevin Van Volkberg. We were playing there. He had just gotten off a red eye and the secretary there paired us up with two members. I think one of them was the captain of the club at the time. KVV's flight was delayed. My train was delayed. We were late getting there. We just felt like just daft Americans showing up just scrambling late and I hate, hate, hate being that guy. KVV was really tired and he did not bring his A-game straight off the plane. He was topping drives,

which he does not normally do and he was pretty embarrassed by it. But I just remember the two English guys that we played with, they were hysterical. So KV would just top a drive, there'd be awkward silence, and they would just break the silence with like a, hmm, bit unlucky there. It's still a line that makes me laugh, and KV and I still do that to this point.

It's hard to deliver it as well as they did, but just trust me, it was really funny. I enjoy the golf course a lot. It's got a lot of character to it. I was a little exhausted on this day going for 36 holes. I probably didn't appreciate it as much as I should have, but again, like I said, the Form B and Form B ladies double dip is a hell of a day at golf.

And it's just got some wonderful, wonderful golf holes. And again, it's got the most variety in the change in landscape, kind of at times feels like you're going through a forest and then you pop right out and most variety in the change in landscape, but kind of at times feels like you're going through a forest and then you pop right out and you're in the dunes. It's got really, really interesting greens, some cool bowl-shaped greens and a couple greens, they just are kind of blind as you approach them around dunes.

And you get up there and you're like, holy shit, this is a way bigger green than I gave credit for. This was not that difficult of a shot. I'd love to have that one over again. Really cool part of threes as well. And yeah, it's a great, great golf course. I come highly recommended.

I put it probably right below Westlanks on the list of courses we played on this trip. The price, it's complicated. It's next summer. It looks like it's gonna be between 165 and 185 pounds. It's a grand big experience. Winter and fall months range from the 90s into the 150s. Again, a highly variable but very reasonable price is considering the overall experience. And if you can

get that double dip between form B and form B ladies, it is definitely definitely worthwhile. So this is a club that I felt like we got the most most of the club experience, I guess I could say, or I felt like I was visiting a real private club, but yet at the same time, you could show up to it and pay your fee and be on your way. So, highly recommend, Form B, and that brings us to the end of the non-royal courses in starting the whole different category,

which I really, really wanted to play this role when we could, go to make these podcasts. Like after we got on the form, and be like, you know what, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna rank one of these other courses above Lhythm or Burkdale. I'm gonna do it because I just feel so, so highly about Westlanks, I just think it, you know,

I'm gonna be a true hipster. And then we played Lhythm and Burkdale, and it just became very clear that those two need to be separated into a different category. This was the maybe the longest drive we had to make. It definitely was the longest drive we had to make 52 minutes up to Royal Liddham in St. Anz. As the crow flies, it's only about seven miles, but you got to go all the way up and around and up on up this peninsula. 11 time host of the open championship. Course was designed by Harry Colt, Herbert Fowler and Tom Simpson.

It's also the Ryder Cup twice and it is just a staple in the world of professional golf. Now there's rumors circulating that Latham has lost its place in the Rota and after visiting there, I can understand that, but I promise you it is not because of the golf course. It is so freaking outstanding. I love that even more the second time around, it just simply lacks a lot of the necessary infrastructure for a modern open. I mean, it's himdened on all sides, train track to the south as you go out. There's houses on all other sides, and it just gets super tight out at the furthest point,

and you just need so much space for grandstands, walkways, and just the traffic flow just doesn't work great. I don't even know where all the infrastructure goes at a place like that. So in that regard, I understand it, but man, I would hate to see this course truly be out of the road. I don't know if it is. I've seen a couple articles that just kind of raised the question wondering if it's out of it. I have always said that it feels a little weird that they have three courses. Now that where a Liverpool appears to be very much back in having the 06 and the 14 open. And I believe having the 2022 open championship as well. It did seem weird that they had three in the road in that small of a space in the world. And with Port Rush entering, it does appear that there is maybe some space for one of them to get dropped off. So I would hate to see it go, but I do understand it.

For the golf course, I'm ready. I think I'm ready to declare it my favorite in the area. It's so freaking good. This in Burkdale are 1A and 1B. I tried really hard to separate them, but here's how I, the best way I can define it. 10 rounds between the two, I'm going five and five. It's the bailout answer, but I'm sticking with that. Now if I had 11 rounds, I'm going six at Lidham and five at Burkdale.

And it's definitely not because I played my best round of the trip at Lidham because I did not, and you will hear about that shortly. First hole, part three. Again, I get more and more in on it as time goes along. Tremendous little hole introduces you to the exercise. Again, which is avoiding the 206 bunkers of Royal Lidham and St. Anne's.

I think I think that's right number. I've heard it. I've heard they've taken a few out. I might just be, let's just go with it. 206 bunkers. Her they filled some in, but the point is it's right number. I've heard they've taken a few out. I might just be, let's just go with it. 206 bunkers, heard they filled some in, but the point is it's a lot. And this is where I kind of separate out what I think of the golf course

versus what maybe a mid handicap or would think. My dad had quite a bit of trouble with the bunkers. He plays off 12 or 13. I don't blame them, they're deep. They're not big. That makes it harder. Everything feeds down into them, the slopes to the left and to the right of them, insured them and above them. They play way, way, way bigger

than they are. And there's so many of them that, man, it's just not even about hitting great golf shots. It's just about avoiding these things. So it's amazing what it does to your club selection, your targets and your decision making. And that gets me so much more excited to play than the normal, just like hit it here, and hit it here, golf. But if you're a higher handicap, I could see this being a pretty big detriment to the experience and the day,

just because it is challenging, it is tough. And man, it will eject you pretty quickly. So we had wind coming out, just a helping wind going out to that southeast corner on the front nine. I wouldn't say it's easy. I mean, it's firm enough that you got to really map out your shots and plan out your run outs.

So there's a lot of driving irons and three woods just to make sure that you leave yourself a nice full shot. And on those downwind holes, I don't love hitting driver on them because you can't get the ball to stop. And it's almost definitely gonna stop when it gets to longer grass. Really like the sixth hole. It's a par five for us, par four for the open bends to the left and we had the prevailing wind off the right. It's just a really cool green surrounded by

bunkers that are just death. You can go for it at your own peril. You likely aren't getting up and down from a greenside bunker. So if you hit a great second shot onto the green, it's, you'll be rewarded, but it is, it's a short five, I think it was, I hit like driver six iron into it, but if I miss that six iron, I'm not making birdie. And again, it's just a wonderful, wonderful exercise.

Ninth is a tiny little part of three, just jammed in at the end of the property. And then it's time to turn around and come for home. And that is where I absolutely got blown out to see the win really picked up as it got in our face. And I shot 47 coming in and I promised that I hit it well. It was some of the most difficult golf I've ever played. I made the mistake of playing about 6,700 yards that day. There's, the back nine is longer than the front and it played into the win.

I hit a bunch of shots on some of the cross-win holes that the win just didn't touch and I just kept making doubles. I mean, you know, pull one a little left and try to let it ride the win, but it drew into it and boom, bunker, double. I totally see what happened at Adam Scott, bogeying the last four holes to lose the 2012 open,

but I had imploded before I even made it to 15. And then I got to 15 pounded driver, pounded three wood, and I was short right in the heather, made a double. That one as well, that's a par four, and about 450 yards, just dead into the teeth of the wind. I think my pound of driver went maybe 230 and I got absolutely all of it. I mean, it was just relentless.

The win picked up at the right moment and I just got exposed, but man, it was so much fun. I never stopped having fun. I love, love, love this golf course. Can't wait to go back and play it again. It's just such a tremendous exacting test. I do think I can play it well. I hate walking off a golf course feeling like I can't play well at a particular place.

Just like that place felt too hard for me. It's definitely not the case with Lidham. I feel like it's just a puzzle and that can be solved. And I'd love another shot at it. I'm over too at it. I haven't played well there at either time. But it's wonderful. I love it.

Can't say enough good things about it. You can actually, I've never done this, but you can stay right there off the first tee in the dormy house, and it's supposed to be a great experience. The rate is reasonable. I think you have to send an inquiry in for the rate. I don't know the rate,

but it's not extravagant. You get a discount on your tee time at Lhythm if you do stay in the dormy house. It is 200 pounds in the summer and 250 pounds on Saturdays. Again, compared to, you know, form B and some of those other places and hillside, that's not expensive if you ask me for the premium that you get out of the experience. That's definitely worth it. Those rates fall by 50 pounds if you stay in the dormi house. And in off season, it is between 140 and 175 pounds. Very, very much worth it. You

don't need me to recommend Royal Lidm to you, but it is as good as they say it is. And next up is Royal Burkdale, the crown jewel of England's golf coast. I want to give a shout out to Jeff Harris from England's golf coast. He helped put our itinerary together and he really did have them just crescendo. I mean, just kept getting bigger and bigger. Again, I wanted to say that I like some of those other courses better than the Royal ones. And I can't do it. These two courses really are just next level.

Everything's just a bit more grand. Green's a bit more smooth. The stage and the scale just a bit bigger. And there's a reason why, you know, the oldest golf tournament in the world keeps going to these places. And it's because they're tremendous. I wouldn't say that Burkdale inspires as much within me as Latham does. It's probably, it's a little prettier golf course. It's got just really well-defined holes within the dunes. It's tremendous. The open has been there 10 times.

Most recently, of course, spieth one in 2017. It is also host of the Ryder Cup twice. And yeah, the fairways are just kind of set at the bottom of the biggest dunes in the area. They're framed so well and it's just, it's so pure. It's well-bunkered, not to the extent that Lidham is, but it's got, you know, bunkers in the right places and it still gives you that same bit of exercise off the tee. I wouldn't say it necessarily has many standout holes,

but it's just so, so solid from one to 18. I'd have a hard time saying any of the holes are not really good golf holes. Again, just right there in town, right off a train stop, shares a border with hillside and South Port name tails, just across the train tracks. A lot of the fairways are perched at angles, so it's not a place where you can just go whale on driver.

Corners are really tough to cut in links golf, so it's not a place where you can just go whale on driver. Corners are really tough to cut in links golf, so you got to plot your way around. Again, we had a ton of wind while we were out there. There were no breaks at all in the coast. I enjoy this. I think it's the reason why you travel to go play a special place like that. Jeff actually joined us on this trip and promptly informed us that he plays off plus four, which the sound of the ball coming off his club face is still echoing a bit in my ears. The par threes at Berkdale are especially impressive.

The seventh, 14 T's both sit way up on these dunes, played downhill to pretty friendly green sites. The 12 is a really challenging shot to an elevated green that some of the scariest bunkers you'll ever see on both the sides of that green. If you come up short, your balls coming back down the hill and maybe coming into these bunkers, extremely challenging. This was my dad's favorite course of the trip. It's about as close to my favorite as you can get.

The 17th and 18th are both awesome par-fives. Another pros play 18 as a par-four. But it finishes with three par-fives in the last four holes. You got a chance to kind of get some shots back there at the end. Parts are relevant, of course, but it does have a little bit of a psychological effect on you as you come in. And again, there's just always just an added element when you're playing a course you've watched on TV and you know, where you have specific memories of things that

happened. I mean, like in the last 20, 21 years alone, we got, we got speed on the driving range on 13, which once you go see where he was, it's, it is comical. We've got go get that on 15. Padrex approach in 2008 on the 17th hole, Justin Rose, holding out for par as like a five-year-old on the 18th hole, as you finish like T4 or whatever that was. It's just a, it's a memorable place, a special place. Great vibe in the clubhouse afterwards having a beer out there on the deck and watching some of the other players come in. It doesn't, again, it just doesn't quite, quite speak to me the way that Livam does,

but I'm actually really splitting hairs between those two. Totally deserved of its spot in the world rankings, which is basically in the top 50 of virtually every list I've ever seen. The price is $2.35, $235 in the summer, and $265 on the weekends. Those rates go down to 175 to 210 in the off season. And that's it for the link's leg. Happy to answer any questions anyone may have on the experience. A couple more questions we got.

James Rooney, who played is a professional, who's a member at West Langs, said, asked him what the favorite moment on the trip was. I have a feeling the eagle on seven at West Lanks will be up there. Yeah, that might have been it. I drove the seventh hole. We were playing some pretty friendly tease. That's, that's that's a bit of a humble brag. I guess you may say, but, uh, to cut the quarter of this green and actually made like a 20 footer for eagle. That was a, that was a highlight. But the evening that we got with the sun out and the wind whipping and at Westlanks, that was that was

my favorite moment. It's not again, it doesn't quite, quite hold up next to the best to the two royal courses, but that place is just a special special place in my heart. And we the sun came out for us on that and some of our best pictures and best memories. And I personally just love seeing how much my dad loved that place. I mean, he was just raving about it. A couple of other questions. One more question we got was from Alex Cooper. If you could be a member at one, taking into account practice facilities, clubhouse, hospitality, food and course, which one are you going for?

Price is not an issue. Um, I got to do this on the non-royal side. I think I would take Lhythm of all of them if we did the Royal Side, included those, but those are just different places. Again, that was the only places we heard other American accents of any kind. It wasn't like it was by the boatload, but it was the only

place we heard visitors. But if not, not one of those, it would definitely definitely be Westlanks if that's not clear by now tremendous place to go play every day a place you can never get sick of playing. I would have to think Thomas Dean asked any plans to make a return trip to England Gantan, Syloth, Woodall, Spall or Mustplays for their north wall St. George's, Sinkports, St. Inodok, Sonton, Parent port, port call on Pennerton Wales as well. That's kind of what I was getting at when saying

that I've just scratched the surface on England. So yes, I'll be back for sure. Phil Murphy asked, best front nine and best back nine. Whew, I'm not gonna do the hillside best back nine. I know that's probably what he's expecting or what a lot of people might expect me to say. I'm gonna say Liven's got the best back nine despite the eruption that I had coming in there.

And I will give the best front nine to Burkedale. Honestly, you could flip either one of those two. And that you could convince me that was the right answer. I probably didn could flip either one of those two and that would and and that that you could convince me That was the right answer. I probably didn't answer that one very well. But anyways, that's gonna do it for the link's leg I'm gonna do part two which is gonna include all the Heathland golf hauling well Walton Heath Sonny Dale Barkshire and St. George's Hill If you somehow aren't sick of this then please do tune into that and say tune them that'll be coming soon cheers Be the right club today. Yes!

That is better than most. How about in? That is better than most. Better than most. Expect anything different? I'm gonna close.