No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 259: Paul Goydos and Kevin Sutherland

Episode Date: November 11, 2019

Paul Goydos and Kevin Sutherland join the pod to discuss their transitions from the PGA Tour to competing on the Champions Tour, shooting 59 in a competitive round, course setups, getting fined and a wide variety of other topics.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yeah. That is better than most. That is better than most. Better than most! All right guys welcome back to the No-Lang up podcast solid here. I got a really fun interview for you today Tron Neil and I went out to the Charles Schwab Championship this past week on the senior circuit Did an interview with Colin Montgomery that came out early this past week. Hope you got a chance to tune into that one. And this interview today is with Paul Goidos and Kevin Sutherland. Two really interesting guys that have been around the game for a long time have had a ton of success, but aren't the household names that you know you may see on the top of a lot of leader

boards on the senior tour every week or the guys you remember the most on the PGA tour. But these are the guys with the best stories, the most insightful guys, the guys that are not afraid to wing it, say some things, and this was pretty much that kind of interview. These guys were awesome, had so much insight. We couldn't get rid of them. They wanted to stick around for, even, I think it's about an hour and a half long interview, and we couldn't get them out of there. They wanted to stay forever. It was awesome. Great time. Thanks to the Schwab people for helping set all these interviews up. And we got another one that will come out some point here in the fall as well. Before we do get going a reminder, if you are looking to get some Christmas gifts for friends, if you're looking

maybe send this to a significant other, if you are looking for, if they're looking for gift ideas for you, Calaway is offering a two dozen Chrome software, Chrome software X golf ball deal for just $70 including free personalization. You know about the Chrome software that combines tour proven distance and performance with exceptional feel driven by the groundbreaking, graphene infused dual soft fast core. So whether you're stocking up for yourself or you want to go ahead and knock out this gift for a golfer on your list for this season, Go to calwaygolf.com, take advantage of this offer while it lasts. You've heard me say a million great things about the ChromeSoft. It's been my most successful year in my entire golf life.

It's been a large part thanks to the ChromeSoft Golf also. Calwaygolf.com for more information. Without further delay, here is Kevin Sutherland and Paul Goidos. I do my best to try to direct questions at each of them, so you'll recognize their voice. I think you should probably pick up whose voice is who's within the first couple of minutes. But thanks for tuning in and thanks to both these guys for the time.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No-Lang-Up podcast. We're having ourselves a day out here at the Charles Schwab Championship, third podcast of the day. Join first across the table, Mr. Paul Goidos. Hey, guys, doing. Thank you for being here and joined by what Billy Andre described as your lover. Oh great, having the other lens. Yeah, good to be here.

It sounds like Billy. Where does that come from? We just spend a lot of time together. We practice together. We practice together. I mean, you know, you get to spend time with your friends. That's where the fun is. If I had to play Pratchad by myself. I wouldn't play them. Were you guys friends

going back to your college? College, college, college, college. Yeah. Where'd you guys go school? He went to Fresno State. I went to Long Beach State. Same conference. Okay. So we played a lot of golf to go to college. First tour school. Two or school. Four or four. Paul, what's your first memory of Kevin? Probably college. I we didn't know each other in junior golf because he was Nordkowski cow Fresno State was really good back when we weren't long be sweet into your terrible I mean I never played in an NCAA tournament and I'm ever getting paired with Kevin and him and his brother both played at Fresno State They both had this backswing that when you know took he's backswing to a Quarter the way back. I can hit six shots, you know, it was such polar opposites and how we play and we approach the game

And I said thing I go who's this guy what's he doing? Hit it come on You've always actually gotten quicker hasn't it used to be slower? I think it's quicker now than it was when I was in college or even when I first started I've had people say they don't want to play a practitioner I was just Kevin swings it too slow and it drives them crazy. You've always got to take that right? For what? Just for having a funky swing, you've always gotten...

I've gotten more... I wouldn't use that funky. Flack for how strong my grip is. It used to be stronger. It was a lot stronger back in college and when I first turned pro back into my in my 20s, it's gotten a little weaker, I mean, I say weaker, it'd be strong for anybody else, but it's got a little weaker over time, but I think I take more and for bending over more than I do for back.

Kevin is the golf ball right in the middle of the club face as much as anybody on this tour. Best ball strike have you ever seen? Wow. He hits it in the middle of the club. You said you have to hold the ball. You said you have to hold the ball. If he said you said you said that's a lot. That's a ball statement. to right having that strong grip? My miss is more left, but most of the shots I do miss right are probably because you're blocking off left a little bit. But I get in a funk where I miss some things right too.

I mean, the body gets going a little too quick or whatever. It can be anything, but my miss is predominantly a little bit more left. How long into the interview do we have to wait before we talk about the 59? Because his? I want we talk about the 59 because his? Well, I want to talk about yours first because it felt like it should have been about 57 Kevin. You know it

It's funny because when that put on 18 the one it was for 57 was wasn't really a pod It was actually off the green by 10 feet, but Was going towards a hole. I mean I smoked it and But it was breaking and I was like you mean, I smoked it. And but it was breaking. And I was like, you know, I actually had a conscious thought, like, oh, this is just one of those days. I really thought I was going in. I mean, it's just like, because everything else has.

And it just, it just was, it's so hard that it went like eight feet by. And I actually had a good second putt. I mean, you know, it didn't go in. Because it's part 72 for the record. You had a chance at shooting 15 under. Well, yeah, I mean, yeah, I was, yeah, I mean, you know, it didn't go in. Because it's part 72 for the record. You had a chance at shooting 15 under. Well, yeah, I mean, yeah, I guess I was 14 under after 17 whole, so yeah, it's just stupid golf.

I mean, it's, you know, it was nine and after eight. It's just like video golf. I mean, it was just like, making every putt, you looked at it, were you sticking it to five feet? I mean, it was a bit of everything. I mean, it was a bit of everything. I mean, I made some long putts and I hold a bunker shot on seven, but then I also hit it to like three feet for eagle on five. I mean, you know, it, you know, I started on a birdie birdie, birdie eagle, birdie,

birdie birdie. Do you start thinking about it immediately? What's your thought process? Well, I, you know, and I think sports psychologists... I know. Well, yeah, you were gonna get to your 59. That was 400 after nine. Oh. I think sports psychologists would have an issue with what I, and I'm not saying what I did was right. I'm just saying this is what I did.

When I was nine and after eight holes, I was walking off the eighth hole, and I thought, I guess you're 15-9 today. And then I went, I still got to shoot four more, I guess I like to make four more birdies. I mean, that was like, because usually at night and after eight, you still have to make four more birdies in the last 10 holes.

It's like, that's where it kind of hit me like, wow, that's really hard, you know. But, you know, when I birdie 10, I thought 10 was, I actually still think 10 was always the key hole. Because sometimes rounds stall out. But when I made the turn and then immediately made another birdie and then I actually birdied 11, it was like, okay, this is real, you know, because sometimes round.

Yeah, when you get to 11 under after 11, it gets real. That's when it gets real. That's when it's real. The nine under after a, it's nothing. 11 under after 11. I'll get to three under, you know, three. Like I've been a three under a couple times my life and I'll shit my pants.

Yeah, I need advice on going low too. I play about scratch, but like, if I get to four under or something, I freak out. I don't know what it is, but you guys are both. I don't think the 59's is best round the champion store. The 60 at Seattle. I mean, the 60th Seattle. best for on the champion's tour. The 60 at Seattle. I mean the 60 at Seattle. That of course is hard. Yeah. And it was it was kind of a rainy day. I mean I played good that day and shot the one under. But pretty good. You know

I probably could have shot three under. He shot 12. That's what Furex 59 at Conway was like he'd be the next lowest guy. I was like 66 or something like that. But if you always just had the ability to go super deep. Like you just don't get fake. Like you don't think about it when you get super deep. I've been asked this question some recently and or the last whatever a couple of years is I don't know how else to describe it except for the fact that I never I don't think I don't get afraid

to make a bogey. I'm not like holding on. I'm not afraid to make a bogey. I'm not like holding on. I'm not afraid to make a bogey. But I'm also at the same time, I feel like I'm always hungry. Like I'm hungry for more birdies. Like I feel like I can eat more. What did you do at Iowa this year? Because you won Iowa this year.

Didn't you burn you in the seventh to the last eight? I burned you in the second. Well, I shot, yeah, I burned you to the last nine. You burned you to win by, do it in a playoff. I went really late last night and so you wonder why I play practice rounds with it. Yeah, it's a learning. It's a learning experience. This does not just like first round or second round.

It's like you're doing it. Some of these are final round. There is a difference. You know, just again, you talk about the round at the round at Seattle to me just stands out. But back to where time of 59s. That's why I David Devalls round, you know, the 59 at the hope to win.

Yeah. A tournament is completely different than I mean, not the diminished 59s. The 59 the first day is much different than 59 last time. It's doing Apple beans 59 last year. Apple B. I think I burger stands out too. I don't know if the golf balls even round back then. The woodwood on a golf course.

I ever played the I played the open-call fire this golf course is hard yeah it's hard with metal woods and pro v ones let alone with a persimmon wood and a McGregor turn we have a stunning round of golf so you were four under through nine Paul for you for your mine was only twelve under this is a John Deere no only 12 under John Deere yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah what you resist 2010 yeah yeah yeah striker shot 60 that right you know in the afternoon yeah I was he shot 60 that yeah I well I woke up the next morning with Starbucks and I

turned on my computer and I was like three back I'm in the shop 59 the first minute, I shot 59 in the first round. Yeah, I shot 400 on the front. On the front nine. And then we could've played the back nine first. Yeah, and then my birdie data, the nine holes on the back nine. And that was part three, five on there.

It's part, you know, so I shot what, 31, 28. 28. Yeah, so I shot 400 on the third one. Birdie the last. I birdie the last three, yeah. I mean, were you nervous? No, I don't get, I don't my most nervous pretty the last. I'm pretty the last three. I mean, were you nervous? No, I don't get nervous. I don't, my most nervous moments are never

when I'm playing really, really well. Really? My most nervous moments is when I'm scoring really well and not playing very good. Like I'm waiting for disaster to happen. It's just a complete, I should, I should, five minutes and I should be even. I'm in third place on Sunday morning

and I really should be missed the cut. That's when I get nervous as well. When is the damn gonna break? Is the nervous times? Have you had an instance of being deep in the heart? Oh, yeah. I'm like, most of the time, I don't think I deserve to be there, and you're holding on a little bit.

I mean, again, I look back at the weeks I played really well. There's a few of them where I just played well, and it was fine, but I've had plenty of weeks where I was in eighth place, and I had no business being there. And then PGA tour, because there is a secondary concept of keeping your car. You know, when it's August, and you're in 100 and ton the money list, and you're in eighth place, and you should be in 50th, because you chip in in four times, and you're waiting for the damn break. Those are the stressful, nervous situations for me.

When I shot 59, I had a similar instance of him being off, but I'm four under after turn, and I birdied 10, 11, 12, 13, 14. So now I'm nine under with four to play, and the next hole's probably the hardest hole in the back, 9, 15, and I made a missed agreement, but barely chipped it up to three feet and hit a good little three footer in there.

And I had the same thing, I have a little walk to sixteen. I had one, this is a rare opportunity. You've already the last three holds you're going to shoot fifty nine. That didn't happen. I don't think that's a bad thought. And second thought was that I'm nine under par. On Sunday nine under par is going to be in forty eighth place, maybe. There's no, we stop arbitrarily at eighteen. It's an arbitrary stop. We just come up with

that number, but it doesn't mean that because you're nine under after 15, that's good enough for the day. My mentality was, in nine under's nice, 20 under's going to win, or end of 24 under one. So, saying that I've done my job through 15 holes, I par out, that's okay, that's the wrong attitude of the PJ tour. You need the pedal goes down, the pedal doesn't let up. And here's the first round. Oh, I didn't mean to diminish it.

No, it's gonna stay in that round. Purposeful shade or yes. But that was 20 years ago, those good guys. So you did have this thought, I didn't have any. I didn't win either. I can say. But there was 20, I didn't go to school. But so I didn't win either. I couldn't say that. But I had it, there was a conscious thought that 9-0 is really not that good in the grand schema thing. 24-under is what won the tournament.

And so, and then I went right back in and made a 15 or 25-foot run, 16 for Verde, and then just, it just, 17, I couldn't, you know, it worked out well on an 18, I had three of the best shots I've ever had in my life. Are those the fun events, like if the events where you feel like you got to put your gas, the gas pedal all the way down? Do you guys prefer those or do you prefer tougher setup? Where, I mean, is that, is that the mindset every week and that maybe a good question for comparing PGA

to our golf to champion to our golf, but do you feel like you go out and are like, all right, now it's birdie time, or do you feel like you go out and play golf? Does that make sense? Yeah. Well, go. It's kind of funny.

I think a little bit of both is good. I do, I really do look forward to playing the hard golf courses. And I think out here we play, the Wayne score a lot of times for three rounds is, we're playing four this week, but for three rounds is, you know, a 15 under area is a pretty good number to start. Would you agree with that? So I think out here, you kind of like, I love to have that day.

There's been some tournaments out here where, you know, the Wayne score was, you know, in that five to six and it's fantastic. I think those are, that's a good winning score, I think, for three days. And it's, I enjoy that. Why is that, though? Do you think it favors you more if that's a good winning score, I think for three days. And it's, I enjoy that. Why is that though? Do you think it favors you more if it's a tougher setup?

No, I don't know if it favors me either way, really. I think I've played well when it's been both. But I do think that, I think it's enjoyable. I think when par is a good score, it's, I think in some ways it's almost a little less stressful, a little bit. You know, just let it, that's kind of what I mean. A little less pressure, although it's tough golf courses are only good when you're hitting it well. If you're not hitting it well, those are going to be really long days, you know.

Yeah, I would say that that, wouldn't you have a golf course that say, again, single digits, you know, is going to win and assuming nothing crazy is happening, when there was just a normal hard golf course like they have setups at the EOS opens better ball strikers are going to do better. Guy who gets away with stuff and scrambles that guy can shoot the 20 under on the easier golf course but this is going to shoot for under on the EOS open course in my opinion. Because I've been saying I've my two of my wins I shot 20 over 20 under par for three rounds. All right, maybe I'm not sure about how I might have been 19, I bogey to last all and then at 3M I was going to play off at 20 under.

But also my three of my best tournaments in the last three years have been the year of senior open. I played good at the last three of whatever it was. I guess stricter won by a bundle last year, but I played good at broad chance to win at Broadmore. I played pretty good at, I chance to win a broad more. I played pretty good at the holly. I didn't even, say, let my play good early. And then kind of fell apart a little bit at the end.

But I think that's a more of a function. Especially, again, I think it's different when you ask a 55-year-old that question, if you ask a 25-year-old, that's a question. We've played enough golf for playing good, either kind of works. Both some guys, when you're 25, you've got one style that I need that the Bob Hope or I need Colonial where it's tighter and tougher.

You know I think at this age we've played so many different types of golf terms we got in comfortable in different situations. We played enough tournaments or five under one we played enough tournaments or 25 under one. That if you're playing well enough and get yourself in the position you can kind of do either one. What's different between Champions Tour Golf at age 55? I think you guys are both 55 now and when you came out of 50.

Like, is it, I guess, what changes in your own game in that time period? You know, we hear people talk about, you know, just the older you get, the nerves of your putt and go or so and so goes, do you feel any differences in your game in the last five years? You know something is so it's hard to tell. I mean I would say that yeah I think this question is better asked me about Kevin and Kevin about me. I'm interested. Yeah because I think I think I think Kevin's playing better now and he's ever played

his life. I don't know if that's true if you feel that way. Maybe this year he's heard. The last few years he has been the one about top three players out here. Only got to take down longer in the last five years. And that year he, I mean, it was like he played bad and he finished fifth. It was, how many top, you had 16 or 17 top tens and 22 starts? Some crazy number. And it was just constantly. And then, then, not sure you played good. And good initially you won twice

Right, I think it's hard to self and yeah, I think we have a tendency to think that we're the same Yeah, you know the same you're the same guy. Yeah, and I think that you know, it's hard. It's like If you see someone every day You can't see the change, you know, you see someone not for over you go a whole year and you can oh, he's changed a lot, you know I would say that that my bad golf is worse Okay, and why what is what is worse is I would say I would say one of my strengths my whole career And even early on the champions tour that I was good at turning a 50th into the 35th and a 35th into a 25th and a 25th. I ground out that deal and I don't seem to have it to be as good as now I turn 35s into 40s and 40s into 50s and bug one the other way. But once I

get in the top 10 I'm still pretty good at turning 10 into 7 and 7 into 4 and 4 into 2 and what. I can once I get myself in the spot I tend to stay there but if I start out slow I tend to have trouble getting that momentum back in. As I've gotten older. I know that's a grind or if that's a loss of focus, I'm old. I don't know what that is. But my focus isn't as sharp at 40th place as it was 10 years ago. That makes sense.

Does that have anything to do with no cuts really on the champions? I actually thought the no cuts was the opposite. We talked about how you, I actually thought it, it made it in a sense easier because if you make an early bogey, didn't you work not, if you have a tournament, you know, we have a couple of them with cuts, but if you have it, you're on the PJ tour and you're playing pretty good, but you plug it in the bunker on four and you three put six

and you kind of get a bad bounce in a divot on seven and you're three over after seven you're thinking about making a cut. On this tour you still have two and a half rounds to make it up. You don't have to worry about that set. There's not that answer to the re-worry. Okay, you've had a bad star. Let's go and you can do that. On the PJ tour when I got into that spot I thought more about what do I need to do to make

sure I get to play on the weekend. And so there was almost a different mindset on that eighth tee than you would have out on this tour. If that makes sense. No, it does. And I may be, that may be a bad thought, but I don't get them. I'm saying a sports psychologist would think that's a great way of looking at things by the way.

I do think there's a different, it's a different rhythm out here than the PGA tour of four rounds. We play three. Because even the four rounds here is a different, with being that there's no cut, like every day, it's like a world golf championship. Yeah, every day on the PGA tour has a feel.

You know, like the first day you're kind of like a game star, a second day, you know, it's a cut day, third day, you're like, you're getting yourself a musician for the last round, then it's the last round. You know, out here, it's like being that there's no cut, it feels like nothing really happens, I should say, nothing really happens. It just feels like,

airbys is moving forward as fast as they can until they get to the last day, and then it's the last day. It's like, it's a different feel, like there's no, being that there's no cut, I feel like there's no like, there's no definition. There's no definition each day.

But Saturday's not moving day, because everybody's moving. Everybody's moving. Right, maybe some truth to that. And if something about Paul said earlier about, when he plays while he plays while, he said something about two years ago, here you were leading on the last day, right?

Yeah. And I just saw an interview where he said, one of the things, and he's always been really good. Not to say closing a term, but when he's playing well to play key playing well, is that he says, I never get in a hurry to get to the end, like not to see what the finish is. And I know that's something that I have struggled a little bit with, where I'll get, you know, be playing well,'ll get to like the fifth hole the last day. And you're always like, you know, maybe leading or whatever.

And you're always like, I don't see your fast forwarding, but you always want to, it's like you want to go at the end of the movie. Yeah, you're almost picturing, I don't know, I might be able to be celebrating with you at the end. See, well, I think that's, where I struggled with that was on Saturday. I always thought when I played in a PGA tour Saturday,

when I was in contention, Saturday was the hardest day because you don't do anything on Saturday, right? You don't win that day. You can only lose that day You hurry up. You you you you you Sundays the day action So so keeping my focus through Saturday was always a hard day for me if I had played well And you know on the first two rounds and then Sunday was always a much okay You now now now it's the time that day was always like the longest day of the week for me, was Saturday and contention. And that's a little different out here, because Saturdays are all the same on this tour.

Like, what Kevin was saying, you don't have that. So I don't have that same, I might, maybe this week, with the four round tournament you might, in the four rounders, when the three rounders, Saturdays just, it's not, it doesn't have that same anxiety. I don't know if the same anxiety is the right word but that that get it over with attitude to get to the most important day I Had I don't have that on Sunday as much as Kevin said, but I had used to have it a lot on Saturdays when I was in

Contents. Yeah Saturdays out here feel like a day Mm-hmm, you know which I'm not saying these are bad or good things. It's just it's just a different Reality of it. It's just a reality of it. I think if there was a cut out here, I think that would change. I think that when we play like the senior open, you get more of that feel of the PGA tour. No question. I know. You know, it's there's a cut in the third day. Okay, I made the cut. Now it's just worried of moving it in itself in the position and it's a final day. Yeah, it's a good point. How much different is the travel? Like having that

extra day in the week or guys a little bit more apt to kind of loaf from city to city, you can take a little side trip here there, is it? We're both West Coast guys, so we have a totally different added. We can't go home between right minutes per second. But then again, I also can buy round trip tickets. I can buy my tickets three months and advance if I want to. Because I know when I'm going home.

And for us to play on Monday, I mean, there's like three acts of God and Jesus. You know, that's the first horseman of the apocalypse if we're playing Monday on this tour. So I know I'm leaving, I'm going home. You know, if I'm between tournaments, I don't care that much about what I do on Monday. But if I'm going home, I know I have that 6A

and fly it out, going to the West Coast. And that part of travel is, in a sense, easier. What, try to help me as a, I don't follow the champion's tour probably as closely as I should in this job. But somebody that checks in on leaderboards from time to time, it seems to me, casually, that it's a lot of the same people, right? It almost feels like the champion's tour weeds out players more than like the pga tour does right I mean you check

in on the leaderboard pga tour there's guys that go on ups and downs but it seems like this tours way way more about consistency one I would say I would say the biggest difference is we only have the top player on the pga tour plays 35% of the events sure yeah the top player in the champions replace 90% right of the events. Sure, yeah. The top player on the Champions replaced 90% of the events. I've known, you mentioned earlier about the difference in about being, you know, being 15, 55 in age. I've what I've noticed about the Champions tour, especially I'd say in the last two or three years,

it's gotten incredibly top-heavy. The top 10 to 15 guys seem to play well every single week. Oh, you look at Kevin as you say that? Kevin. Yeah, I mean, so this, you know, Paul plays really good. I mean, he's fun. But I mean, I, I, but the, I, what I've noticed is that, you know, McCarran and Kelly and Goose and Sutherland and flesh and langer and Montgomery.

It's the, it's the top, the cream out here is really creamy. It's really, really good. It's a hunger, because it seems like talking to Android earlier, he was, Billy's been played Woody Austin. He was talking a little bit about how there's certain guys that come out that everybody thinks they're gonna be world beaters out here, and you guys are kind of

like in your chops, like, man, like you can't coast out here, you gotta be really hungry, you gotta be, like, you gotta be kind of like in your chops, like, man, like you can't coast out here. You got to be really hungry. You got to be kind of recommitted. It's like you're a rookie again. Again, I mentioned I think Kevin's place better is playing better now than he ever has. I would say the same thing about myself. Yeah. I would say I've never been a better, more knowledgeable, better player than I am today.

Does that attribute at all to this tour not nearly being the distance race that the PGA tour is? There's definitely an advantage to length out here. I mean... Kevin mentioned and again it's again part of that top heaviness. All those guys I just mentioned the new guys have come on Goosun. Steve Flash who's really starting to find his way out here are all hit them all a lot. Darren Clark, oh my god, how far does this guy had it? I mean the long hitters are starting to rise up. Macarons, obviously, bombs. The long hitters are starting to get up there.

Like, I looked at you no laying up. I lay up on every hole. I mean, there was a hole today. I wasn't even on the same hole as them. I mean, literally, you guys had 70 yards. I had an eight out there. Because there's a bunker out there, and I can't deal with it.

It's not, I would say, five years ago, that length was a non-issue. Really? And I'd say today it's becoming each year, it's becoming more and more of an issue for me. And there's an argument, Steve seems to think I hit it farther now than I did before. I don't know if I'm not buying that.

Steve Flash plays with us a lot too. We talked about it. We can't talk about it. It's hard to tell. I don't know if you're, it's all real. I would guess that you're hitting it the same thing. Right, so would I. So I'm not losing any distance for sure. but I think there are more long hitters on

this tour than there were five years ago. I think one different aspect to it is that most of the time we don't play with a lot of rough. So there's not a huge pre-owned accuracy. You know, driving a straights grade, but driving a little bit further is good. And the greens aren't necessarily like concrete firm, so if you are in the rough, it's not hard to get it to stop on the green mainly because if you're a longer hit or you're hitting a lot shorter clubs. And that's sure, that's not that much different than the PG.

That's golf in general today. Sure. And there's a there's a fallacy out there. We're going to get into philosophy here about the bombing and gouging well this is nonsense i would actually argue the bubble watch and in brook's kept can roi malkyre i have a game in front of them and they have mathematically figured out the best way to play it and for them to say there's just bombers and gougers is so disrespectful to the talent that they have if we had and i i'm a firm believer of this that if we had changed the game tomorrow and said driving accuracy is the only matter is a male to the ball pin high every time you

know the best plan in the world in two years roymaker and then bruce kept that and then the same guy they figure out how to do it and then they beat everybody out on the flip and this argument i think is they're playing the game that they're that they've been given just like i play the game that i was given growing up which is much more accuracy based and i i i find it incredibly

you know again disrespecting of the town when i hear these guys talk about they just bomb and gouget well that's exactly in the other they do they make a lot of money went a lot of health terms don't i think there's a fallacy though that like like rory and brook's like those guys are also some of the straightest drivers of the golf ball I mean they're exceptionally accurate to where there are other guys out there that it's like literally hit it and go find it Right. I think there's I think there's a there's a big difference along the bombers Well, that you can't be an elite player and then there's more guys and just those two and be a guy that hits it everywhere

I mean you just can't right so what would happen is that the top 50 guys would be pretty much the same. We would jumble the next 75. That's who would get jumbled. We'd have different guys for a lot of the rank and file would be that's it. The top players are the top players. It feels like to me, and I think it was maybe best

on display at Beth Page this past year in that the way that current Technology has evolved and the learning that has come like that we're in 2019 now Justin Thomas has learned to hit a large driver and a ball that doesn't spin as much for his entire life So we're seeing the young guys like Tron and I grew up. We're both 33 We grew up with golf balls. It's fun and like like I still remember the snap hooks that I can't hit one. I can't hit one like I did in middle school back then. But now the way it's gone is like even when you can hit it so far,

one, you can, I just don't feel like I ever see Brooks in precarious situations. And he's not the most, he's very accurate, but not the most accurate. He's not gonna hit a foul ball. He's not the most, he's very accurate, but not the most accurate. You're gonna hit a foul ball. When he misses fairways, when you have wedge in, it doesn't really matter if you're five feet off the fairway,

the angle doesn't matter that much. You can get the ball up and you can stop it. And that's where I feel like a set up like Beth Page just made it a prerequisite to hit it far. And obviously like you got shorter hitters, like yourself ball, you can compete on certain kind of golf courses, but just the combination of the way they've set up courses on that tour and how far guys are hitting it and what that means for your second shot is just

throwing things out of whack. Well, like I said, when the other thing that Kevin and I have in common are both baseball guys. He's an Oakland A's fan and I'm an Angels fan, so we hate each other. So again, as an Angels fan, we hate each other. So again, as an Angels fan we're envious of Oakland because that's where money ball started and it's saber metric started and there's not really a difference between figuring out that on base percentage is more important than batting average.

Oh, there's a big in my language. Well, again, I'm a Mike Traut guy, I'm a lower guy. So, but there's not a lot of difference between, you know, that we're on base percentage of the better number than betting average, it's the same concept that that 330 and the rough is better than 280 in the fairway. And they know that. They have figured this out through they're not maybe not doing actual mathematical, but they've figured out in their headway, they've that that's not doing me any good.

And we praise the Oakland A's. And again, we blast bombers and gougers. And it's just nonsense. They're doing the exact same thing. I hate to beat a dead horse here. But they're doing the same thing. Golf has become a, there's a mathematical, I Patrick Kentley is a good friend.

We have the same teacher, and we play the same course. And his approach to the game is totally different than I would ever think of doing. But that's how they play now. and that's what they figured out the math mathematics percentages. It's like three pointers in basketball. Yeah, no they should go and stay figured it out. Yeah, not shit to mid-range. Yeah, no, same thing. I think at least on our end of the table and this all can be changed. Yeah, the criticism is not at the bombers and galtiers or the guys doing it like, oh,

Lee, if you have rules are gonna let you do this, do it. And the USGA is let the ball go and whatnot. Yes. And yes, so what do you, what do you, if you, let's say you were in charge, you guys were in charge of the USGA and you go back 25 years, would you do things differently than they've done it with technology?

You know, it's, I, you know, I, I think they would love to have done something with the golf ball, but I think they were never, I was never gonna happen. I mean, I'm totally don't know this, but I just think there had been some legal problems or I think the manufacturers would have thought them like the right.

I think once the toothpaste was out of the tube, I agree, you can't really go backwards, but I'm saying if you go back 25 before the pro-fee, you do it before they actually invent- There's an all-even event to pro-fee one. There's still, and there always have been rules limiting distance, and there still are. They just let those taunts just get insane. So that's what I'm saying.

We also live in a country that's, you know, we don't live in Scotland. We don't know if we have rain and we have, it's hard to get the golf courses firm enough to where you're going to require more. The players are going to ask for spin. Having said that, I think one of the great things to do in golf, if you're a fan, is go watch the LA open and watch these guys play the 10th hole. They don't know what to do. They can't play. They hit three with on the green. They can't figure it out. There's a little bit of an angle. There's a little bit of firmness. If you don't hit a

good shot, you're in trouble. You know, they don't, you know, I'm a John America, another Long Beach guy, one there four, five, six years ago, in the playoff, he hit four iron over to the left, whoever was playing against drove it up by the green and made bogey, he made birding one to golf tournament. And you can architecturally put spin in the ball through, you know, what you have now is a golf course, a guy hits a nine iron, a hundred and seven, I mean, how you hit on nine iron to 70 yards. And if they're off by 10 yards, I got a 30 footer. We need to make being off by 10 yards, being the rougher and the bunker and about spot,

until we do that, it's a moot point. So then once that happens, then this player will say, hold on a minute, I need to spin the ball more, and the ball will change. So I think architects have turned these golf course with these big giant green complexes, because you need 40 pin placements, because your golf course can't have as too much play hasn't helped either. Every time the Kevin and I you were played the Houston

tournament and they moved to the how we were playing that was not as redstone before the private course. The back nine I'm kind of looking at the scorecard in the yard's book and I'm kind of every hole's 480 and I added up the numbers the back nine was 4,000 in something Yard's long. It was part 37. And I thought, holy, I mean, now I do the math, but that means if the front nine is just 9,8,000 Yard's long. But so it was a 7,500 Yard.

Whatever it was, Fred Koupp was shut 2200 par. It was meaningless. The long golf course was, this is a 9,2000 in whatever, 5. Well, I mean, it's meaningless how long the golf course is now. I don't have the numbers. But it seems like it seems like a lot of the courses that are playing harder on the PJ tour are the ones that are shorter. Yeah, requiring you to control distance, you know, brings the field together. Yeah, and that's what makes you like makes a long hitter control how far the ball's going. And it's supposed to lit in the ball

go as far as it wants to go. But it goes back to the 45 tournaments. If you have four golf courses that kind of don't favor bombers, they just don't play. Right. Well, going back to that. So you've had extensive success at TPC Sawgrass. Is that always?

When it was in May. When it was in May, I did zero successive march. Why talk us through that? Why do you think that is? Why do you think you played better in May than March? I would think the golf course played a lot shorter in May. The Bermuda Gratting went to Bermuda, played firmer. It was warmer.

I played better in warm weather. I thought the rough was more, the rough in March is US Open Rough. If you miss a few, again, I thought I thought the rough was more the rough in March is US open rough if you miss the feet The again, I know shambles been talking about growing the rough up You know if you grow if you narrow the fairways and grow the rough That helps bombers that does not help straight hitters Because the straightest driver ever played the game Calvin P Still miss two or three fairways around. 80% is missing

two. 70% is missing four. You hit 10 out of 14. That's 71%. You missed four fairways. If I missed four fairways and it's US Open Rough, I'm chipping it over here. That's where it used to be. Now, I think I hit at 3.30 misses seven fairways. That's three. I've started I that's why he's only missed three more than me. And if he hits it far enough, he can actually get it up by the green. Long rough, you know, again, I want firmness and angles. I don't want long rough and real super narrow. It does not fade.

Now if the fairways are 35 yards wide and then they're roughs over your head, that's a different question. But at 25 yards wide and really high rough, that favors bombers. Because everybody misses the fairway That's where I was going back to a death page was like I feel like watching Jordan's Speed try to keep up with DJ he's gonna miss fairways to just the natural dispersion

Nobody drives it that good nobody. Yeah, and that's where and we're Aaron Hills got a lot of criticism for the course set up And just because the scores were low and it rained in the wind and blow. But that was more interesting to me than watching a lot of US open setups and that it was wide. So Brian Harmon can compete with Brooks Keppka and it just brings more players into the fold. Wide with a penalty of death if you miss. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah, and short grass around the greens too, which freaks a lot of pros out. Well, yeah, a lot of times the rough keeps the ball near the green. Right. You know, and I'm telling you, rough is I think the worst deterrent in golf. Yeah, the lot of times the rough keeps the ball near the green, right? You know, and I'm telling you, I think the worst deterrent engulf is the most boring. Yeah, again, Champlay thinks it's the brand new friend. He thinks it's the most important deterrent engulf. I think it's the most boring, you know, it's lazy deterrents in my opinion. It's lazy architectures grow rough over your head.

It's hard. Well, no kidding. It's like the 500 yard par 4. They tell me it's hard. To make a 500 yard par 4 hard, you need three things. A T of fairway and a green. It's like the 500 yard par 4, they tell me it's hard. To make a 500 yard par 4 hard, you need three things. A T, a fairway, and a green. It's hard. To make a 330 yard par 4 hard takes a whole lot of stuff

that these guys don't do. But they keep building 500 yarders, and they never build a 330 yard. You have the 500 yarders for... Well, okay, 600 yard par 4. I get that. Well, I know, but 500, but seriously, 500 yard par 4s for, it's a driver name. Half of the guys in the PGA tour, it's not

in the short run. That's true. So, it's 600. Whatever the number is, along par 4, the place hard takes takes, takes three things. A short par 4, hard play, hard takes imagination and, and hard work. You have to really work at the 10th of the review. That's where I like, for me watching the open championship becomes exponentially more and more exciting every year, because it's at least the one week a year where you're almost guaranteed that guys aren't trying to hit as far as they can because they want to stop. They actually fear it, stopping.

And somewhere like St. Rostring, George's where it's going next year, a lot of pros don't like because the fairways are all weird shapes and it's hard to actually hold the fairways and stuff. And when I look up and see fairway and in the rough is bunker, bunker on the left and bunker, bunker on the right, I think that is the laziest. There's not, you're not considering anything off the teeth. Oh, okay, I got to hit it between those two bunkers. That's what I got to do. Versus the whole, the course is like, Riviera too, like a lot of those, some of those holes you need to hit a certain shot shape

to hold the fairway and sort of get to the original. It's supposed to be this. Yes, exactly. And they grew the first cut and they took all that away. Yeah. Well, the trees being brought in so much that it gets to, they almost don't need to rough me. No, no, no, that's the first cut.

It's just because it's cute. He will never get a tree to each job. You just got fired. I'm gonna get that. I did it. But if we keep some of them go into the trees, yeah. And the trees, we don't have trees on courses anymore either. And that's a whole none other topic.

But Oakland Hills was designed after kind of a gust of war. Remember we played there and they redid it and they narrowed the fairways. Well, the first time, remember the first toll, if the pin was on the right, you needed to drive them on the left side of the fairway. The right side of the fairway was no good. Then they put a bunker there. Well, now you have to drive the middle, and you can't play the 80 pen from the middle, really.

So it made so it's a bit farther. They took the strategy out of the hole by narrowing it to some extent. And I think Augusta was the same way. Augusta, though, was a lot narrower than even before the first cut. And Augusta was not, there's a narrow golf course in spots. Right. Well, seven is really narrow. But so again, for me, eight's not one.

It's not a wide open golf course to start with. But that's all about, you know, if the pins in a certain spot, you have to hit the ball here. And it is a matter of the fairway. It's not the goal. It's this part of the fairway. Seven's the one that pisses me off. You can get lost.

That doesn't make sense. You can get lost. That doesn't make sense. You can get lost. You get three wooden ones. No. The green is not a hybrid for me. Well, do you know what the whole, that a lot of the holes that a gust are modeled after, certain particular holes in the brush,

that you would never guess looking at the seventh hole now what it's modeled after. No, I don't. It's the 18th of St. Andrews. It's like supposed to be like a little, like a driving pitch hole. Like that was, that was the original, the original hole. I mean, it's a diff, it's like supposed to be like a little like a driving pitch hole like that was that was the original

original hole. I mean, it's a diff. It's not it's not a pure template. But that was a really idea. And if you go through each hole and it's like five is like the 17th hole in a certain way and whatnot. But you would yeah, that's seven. That is true. I never thought of five like that. But five is 17. Yeah. And they've they've changed a bunch of them. So now it's like, well, yeah, now it's a 460 But the back first we were saying before you know Americanized golf is very much told where you go You know, it doesn't there's no like You know you hit it here and you hit it there and it's angles aren't necessarily as important as they are other places because the ball doesn't bounce and run Yeah, but golf in America is a is a recreation

Golf in Europe is a sport. I hate to say that. No, they can't. It's a sport. I'm stunned to learn, like, when you go play in the UK, like you are playing a competition. I'm sorry. They have their Saturday medal and their deal.

Not drinking on the course. No, it's a sport. Yeah. Yeah, it's very different. You can have your dog with you, though. That's fun. Some places. But there's a piece of me that's a little envious of that. Quite frankly. We've turned it into a money-making

beer drink. For the golf cart. Yeah. The golf cart. That has changed a lot of things, not for the better in American golf. There are a couple things I wanted to get to ask you about, specifically Paul, you played with who was your partner at the 1993 18 T-Pel Beach Pro. That would be, yeah. This was coming. That would be President Trump. He was not the president quite yet. He was not. He was a real estate mogul at that point. I didn't get a chance to meet. I didn't have my third tournament of my career.

Really? Yeah. And I saw the pairings come out on Tuesday or something. And it doesn't say Donald Trump. It's a D-Trump. And I saw it kind of, I don't know who that. I mean, we wouldn't think. What my thought process was, I'm just some schmo rookie, they're not going to put a celebrity

draw. I'm playing, and the other person, I had Donnie Hammond was the other pro, and Harry Crosby, and Bing Son. So then I didn't, but I was playing my practice rounds, you had three grindin' out, what are I show up on, Poppy Poppy Hill since Donald Trump's 10th of the whole age. Marlon Maples showed up on Spidey. He made a hole in one on Spidey at Spidey Glass on the twelfth hole.

He made a hole in one. Yeah, we started on 10 to that day and he made a hole in one on 12. 14. I'm sure. Are you gonna tell him this story? Yeah, okay, go for it. It's true. I know. I don't think it's that bad a story.

That's not a bad story. So the 14 calls, the five glasses. You have to see this off of a small percentage of that. No, it's not. There you go, like me. So I drive it in the trees. A large percentage. I drive it in the trees of 14, and you have all these pine

trees, and I have to thread it through there. And I don't. And I hit this tree, and I go fine left toward the out of bounds up to sale. And there's just these two OB-stakes and this wispy, fescue-looking grass. And I get up there, you know, my mind's spinning. I'd shot four or five over the first day of shooting a million. I'm going to miss a cup by 1,000. I'm just going to show this Trump guy saying, I don't know the hell is this guy.

And I get up there. My ball is right between two steaks and you can't tell if it's out of bounds or not I mean it's right I mean it's right there so you get a call from official and the officials have like dental floss or something Some weight enough there and he did all hit I'm still you know It's a part fire should be down there hitting a hundred yarder and I'm up your 210 yards from the grain up in this house You know they've all laid up and what are you doing? You know? Why are you up there's just standing? All I call for an. He walks up there and I mean, you can, there's no way. They're grabbed.

You can't barely see the ball, the stakes there. And he goes, what's going on? I go, well, we don't know if it's out of bounds. I call for an official. They'll kind of bring out with a rope or something to the towel. And he goes, Paul, I'm the most honest person you'll ever meet. And he kind of looks at and goes, it's in. And I went, well, I don't think that's official.

I just sound official. I don't think that's official. I just sound official. I'm just gonna wait and let the rules officially. I don't wanna do anything dumb here. And it was inbound. The string went right over the middle of the golf ball. It was in bounds by, you know, an inch and a half. So he's probably on the surface.

But I thought that would kind of look like one. I don't know the guy. I didn't expect you to be a liar. I mean, I don't even know what that statement means. I mean, yeah, why prefaced that? Why would you prefaced it? I mean, it's in. Okay, that's fine.

I mean, tell me you're the most honest person, you know, all ever me. Did you guys stay in touch after that? A little bit here and there, but I said, doing play well. And then he, you know, so then I asked the turn, what, what are you doing? Why are you pairing Donald Trump with me? I mean, nobody. I mean, why isn't he playing with know, so then I asked the turn, well, what are you doing? Why are you pairing Donald Trump with me? I mean, nobody.

I mean, you know, why isn't he playing with blah, but Person X? And then to the turn, I'm in credit, um, he was Paul spangler, that was named, who's the Paul? Yeah, at the time. It was, uh, but anyway, so I asked him, well, why do you do that?

He goes, well, if we pair Donald Trump, I guess this is not a compliment at the end of the day. I didn't, I didn't figure this out for a few years. Maybe to just, if we pair Donald Trump, I guess this is not a compliment at the end of the day. I didn't figure this out for a few years. If we pair Donald Trump with pain Stewart, he's playing in pain Stewart's group. If we pair him with you, it's Donald Trump's group. That's interesting. Okay, that makes some sense. And then we had, again, Harry Crosby, who's a wonderful man, you know, Nathaniel's brother and Bing Son. And we played the last group off the first T. at Pebble on Saturday

And I was completely out of my element It's the wildest day in golf Nobody knows what golf is in the fans. Nobody. They're just screaming dongles. It's kind of crazy around 15 Oh, it's 14 14 and 15 15 people of food and there's always It's like the celebrities aren't as big a deal. I don't think anymore Who else did you play with in your career there celebrity wise I put Michael Bolton Hell yeah I had him for he got a two-stroke penalty for signing autographs on the first day didn't get on the T in time

And how about you Kevin? I played Bill Gross. Oh, yeah for 10 years. He's the Pimp Co guy. He started Pimp Co and Bond guy in the market. I played with the CEO Hertz. I played with the CEO Hertz. And I got a tag the second year. After Trump, I got the CEO of Hertz

and gave me a bag deal for a few years. And actually one bay hill, which church was a sponsor, Karen, a Hertz Renekar bag. I still have a relationship. He's a gold member. He's still a gold member. I'm a platinum member.

I don't play the gold game. How much business gets done during the 18 T. Pelbeach Pro Am. I would think so. I would think so. I feel like I hear a ton of stories. I'm like, oh, I got paired with this guy. And you have doing this thing.

I won the Pro Am. The year we played together. I got a lesson in the Pro Am. He did. He did. That's a true story. I haven't gotten a lesson. I got a lesson from. What. He did. That's a true story. I've gotten a lesson. I got a lesson from. What was that from?

From my amateur. What was it from? Well, I'm not going to say his name, but it was actually a good friend of J.H. Us. Okay. Paul, yeah. I was playing the Kurt Triplet and we're playing it. This is it back when they played Poppy and I'm walking off the seventh hole. I three-pied seven, walking up to the tee box and he goes, Kevin, you're a tentative

putter. All right. Thanks. Thanks. I'm doing a sports psychologist. So we get to 16 and we're a tee off in 16 and Kirk Church that he's often 16s were walking up to the next T for the Anders hit and he goes, Kevin you're hitting it pretty good, but you're taking it back a little closed and Kirk took this, oh my gosh you're getting the lesson.

If this is going to happen you don't want Kirk triplet in the group. No, why is that what's he like? He's going to be, he's going to, he He's gonna play it till the end degrees. And he plays it all. He plays it now. He still plays it, yeah. Yeah, exactly. He never ends.

A lot of that has to do with your playing. And Jay Haas is always kind of giving me a heart. He was playing the drive, and he's taking back a little close. You know, it's funny about that too. He's back to what Kevin did. I think he's a good ball striker.

He's always taking the club back a little close. And in 1996, that was different. Now, that's what you're taught. Ken, I'm not a technical guy. I'm not that guy, but everyone was close. Nicholas was close. Dervine, everybody takes the club back close, the Dustin Johnson does it.

All these, it's closed, is now the the way to play lot of guys do not that's actually the the in a sense the fundamental best way to play golf is to be a little shut going back to have been shot is I think probably so life a little bit do you think you even knew it i mean i i am not real technical i mean i i am i i i don't get into like you know i'm a golf machine guy yeah i when i was at fros, when it tons of guys, in fact, Mike Shai, Shai, was a Dishambos coach, was on, played at Fresno State, big golf machine guy.

And I was like, just don't say anything. I didn't know that stuff. You know, they were sitting over there and talking about all the physicians and stuff. It was like a way over my head. You know, airvay is different. It seems like it makes it a little harder than it really needs to be, but airvay needs a different reason to play. Paul, can we talk about the UBN, a substitute teacher on the side?

I'm just, I want to talk about the 1992 UMA Open. I'm going to talk about this one. I'm just want to talk about the 1992 UMA Open. I'm not going to explore. They did. Well, I just, I'm fascinated by like the early stage of the Quarters. So the Quarters. Yeah, back in the day.

The year of the Open was awesome. And the 90 was the first year of that tour. So I played 91. And Kevin and I both played 91. And they have a category. You know, the money list after the Cierce Sempt, if you finish the top whatever, 20.

And then if nobody else wants to play, they go to 21 and on. So yeah, I started, I got, I turned pro and I had, I was married, we had a child and you had to make money and working as a teacher, giving lessons or working in shops, how to, I'll do respect to the PJ, America's Standard Awful. And substitute teachers, this is 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, or whatever, this is probably 1990, 1990, 1991. It paid like $100 a day. So I could go to work at 8, be done at 230, and make $100, I could make $2,000 a month. I mean, you're not making that, I'm not making that anywhere at that point. And, you know, so then there was they needed 50 subs to teachers a day and I had 20.

I mean, it was it was you could work every single day. I got offered a long-term I got offered to be a full-time teacher. Were you dealing with a bunch of bullshit every? I only did middle school and high school because I did a kindergarten class once. Oh my god. I was like, what's that movie with Arnold Schwarzenegger? Oh my god. The hardest four hours of my life. No, I didn't deal with some stuff. I thought it was Long Beach. And Long Beach is a big diversity.

And so you did deal with stuff. There was a guy dying on the way, gang problems. And there's a couple of schools. They'd lock your car into the lot and you couldn't leave. Those types of things. But it get a paid really well. And again, my thought process was, this is before anything else. And the only thing that mattered was when you, if you weren't, if you didn't have status,

only it matters how you played in the October and November. It's been to our school was. Who cares if you're a good player in April? It's meaningless. So my thought process was, I need to earn money. I got a family to feed. And then the summertime, obviously, and not substitute teaching, I can start playing

many tour events. I'd practice. You know, go get done at three and go to the range to five, and then whatever and do, and just kind of, and then start playing tournaments in July and August and build myself up and be ready to play tour school. And then I got to finals and played terrible. And got, but I got some status on the Hogan tour at that time

and played well in a couple early Hogan events and got better status. But not good enough to do anything, missed it to her school, done, got nothing. And so I'm back substitute teaching. And that tour started on Friday. It was three rounds Friday Saturday Sunday, Prime on Thursday. And this is the first event of the year in 92, and I'm 12th alternate on Monday. So I subs to teach on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday, and they call on Wednesday and say,

hey, you're in, if you want to play. So we packed up the baby and my wife took a cup of car and drove the human one tournament. Kind of a hoagin tour daily store. You never saw it. They didn't play the course that day. Then I showed up and hit balls Wednesday afternoon or Thursday afternoon. But I had played the quite finished fourth and that tournament the year before. I didn't even know there was a sponsor because I didn't even think about asking.

I wouldn't even know what that was at the time. I guess I could have asked for one and went out one term. I remember those green ones. I haven't subbed to teach it since that day. Quite for that Wednesday of Yuma was the last time I ever did that. Whatever that haven't substitute teaching since that day, quite for that Wednesday of June, it was the last time I ever did that, whatever that night that Wednesday of, that was your last.

Last substitute teaching day. I have a random question for you, Paul, too. You were a assistant captain on the 2010 Ratter Cup team. You never played on a Ratter Cup team. How did you end up in that role? Yeah, so yeah, that this is a good one. This is a good one. No one knows.

I mean, you really have to ask Corey, so., I mean, you really have to ask Corey. So like way before, yeah, because I don't really know. So way before like, so in Mexico, playing in my a common tournament. So Corey may have just been named Captain. So this is not the year of the Ryder Cup. This is the, this is 2009 maybe March. Way, he goes, I'm, you know, I'm, I say, I dinner with him, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, okay, great, you know, you're gonna be Captain Good, you know, He goes, I'm dinner with him. Yeah, I'm okay, great. You're

captain good. And I'm picking my assistants and you're one of the guys on my list. I said, why? I mean, okay, I mean, I think he's probably got 30 people. That's nice. Thanks. I appreciate it if you need to. I mean, now I just got to whatever. So nothing, nothing really came of that. But I knew, you know, I play a I just got it whatever. So nothing really came of it. But I knew, you know, I play a practice round here in their recording. Nothing really came of it. And then we go to Sony in 2010, first event of the year. And I get a call from, hey Paul, I'm staying in room.

I'll stay in St. Hotel and you come down to my room. And I go, okay, and then he's got this beautiful room with the dolphin pool right there. That was great. And he goes, I've decided on my captains, and you're going to be one of my assistant captains. And I went, why? I got the close I've ever been to the writer cups

when I got up and turned up the volume on the TV. That's the closest I've ever gotten. And secondly, I don't get the writer cup. I mean, you got the 12 best American players. You can't figure out who can play with each other. There's nonsense. So what were your duties? I go this is nothing. Yeah. Well, so that's gets even worse. So I show up and I don't know if I should tell this story.

This is who the other happens. Yeah. This is just the tiger. Oh, yeah. So I show up. And I guess, I mean, I don't think anybody's even remotely said anything other than, why don't you buy clothes that fit? That's the biggest compliment I've ever gotten about how I dress. How come they don't fit you? That's it. I dress terrible. I was going to ask you why you always putt in your shoes.

That's because I have really big neck and really small shoulders. And so if I don't, if I do unbutton the button, then it opens up and I do wear gold chains. So I have a 19 and a half inch neck, dress shirt, 20 inch arms. It's the hardest shirt in the world. So, um, so a Monday, we get the ReFly in, we play the two-word championship, we take it around, we're doing it. So we have to bring, that they're actually bring two outfits to the course the first day. There's a picture and then you have to change for what you're putting. You actually, it's granimals.

You actually show up in your room. I didn't pack this. So if you show up in your room and they have all your clothes lined up and there's a book, you wear this on what we need you to wear every day. And it's all, yeah, there's like a giraffe and giraffe. Match up the pant and they'll do. So I get the little well Curry what do you want me to do? I don't know when you know what I'm doing. I have no idea. I mean what am I how am I going to help? Who are the other assistant captors? Davis love Tom Laman and Jeff Sallum and major

champions at scowl all you know going what in the world. I'm sure they're kind of going. I was involved in the captain's picks, and I picked the wrong guy there. We got it down to the last, we had Tiger and Stuart Sink and Zach were done. So we had one last guy, and I said, you know, it came down to, there's a good story. It came down to Ricky Fowler, JB Holmes. And I actually had a player, Charlie Hoffman came up to me. That was like after the Deutsche Bank playoff event. Charlie Hoffman comes up to me on Tuesday and goes, if I win this week, would I be considered for a pick for the writer cop when I go?

If you win this week, I'll be more than happy to lobby hard for you. And he won the tournament. Charlie Hoffman. I mean, I thought, I would have picked him on the spot. This guy came up to me before the tournament and said, if I win, would I be a guy and he wins the tournament? Called a shot. That's pretty impressive. And so we didn't pick him. So we came to kind of, who do you like?

Came to the show, I didn't like JB Holmes. He played well for A's and Erie. He hits the ball really long. He's a really good player. And they said, and everybody else like Ricky Feller and Ricky Feller mountain played great. So he gets a lot of credit for having that one match, but I don't you didn't win a match at that at that at that. At the record. J.B. Holmston. No, Ricky Feller.

He went O2 and 2. Okay. He did birdie like the last four holes that tied the match. That's right. That allowed us if yeah, if Hunter Man would have won his last two holes to retain the cup or something. So. If Hunter Man would have won his last year, he would have retained the cup or something. So, my job for early the first few days was,

I need to sit at the end of the hallway before the elevator makes sure everybody's wearing the right clothes. This is my job. That was your duty. And so, I'm so hoping that you designed the rain suits but continue. No, I was a little surprised when they came up

and said you need to talk to the guy at Sun Mountain. I go, what we have Sun Mountain, but why? So the rain gear, and I I was a little surprised when they came up to see you need to talk to the guy's son mountain. I go, what we have son mountain boy, so the rain gear and I went, they make rain gear? No. Yeah, I thought having the names on them were thought too. So, everybody's coming by and I have to look and they're with great pants in this shirt and that sweater blah blah blah. Tiger comes on, got the wrong pants on. The tiger, that's the wrong pants. He goes, that's the gray one. So go with it to the other gray ones.

And I will admit, they looked exactly the same color, just a slightly different cut. We got to wear the other gray ones. I'm some schmo, goidos, just tell me what I'm to wear. I mean, can you imagine if you tiger was and having me tell you what you're not wearing the right clothes? Could you imagine that? I mean, it's just, that's unimaginable that could happen in the world that this guy is telling me I'm wearing the wrong pants.

So he goes back and he changes. He's always the last guy too. So he goes back and changes and we get in the car. But I'm going to do whatever we do that day. Second day again, I'm sitting there and I'm like in the penalty box sitting in the corner or you know, everybody comes out Tiger's last guy And he's got all the right clothes on. Beautiful. So now I'm going to get, we go down the stairs, it's me and Tiger and Steve Williams. We're going to get the caddies around the other wing. We get in the car. It's like a take us to

the course. We're not, I think, a five minute ride. And I go Tiger, you were in your white belt, right? And he goes, yeah, and I go, I need to see the belt because he's going to sweater. I'm wearing the white belt. I need to see the belt. And he kind of gets up out of the car, goes upstairs and switches, but Steve Williams is looking at me, he let knives are flying out of his eyeballs at me. He's wearing the wrong belt. He wasn't wearing the white belt. You did your duties, William.

So he had to run back upstairs and change belts. And that's why they put you in the car. Yeah, I get that. Because I have that. I have that. You know, if the holes cut in the wrong place I could care less, but you know the little things is driving bonkers to this day you don't know why you were selected as assistant He thought go. I think he was looking for he looking everybody has

Outside the box. Yeah, that was his thought process with me and I don't know that I came up I think I was more comic relief than anything else With the best part is the first day it's porn-rang. We only played like five holes And I got he gives me Jeff over 10 and Bubba Watson And this is the brilliance of Jeff Slum and Slum and the assistant captain and rookies are problematic in writer cups I don't know why rookies are problematic in writer cup. At least I didn't now that I've been there I understand it's it's unbelievable off-term but rookies always cause problems and and goes, well, we just put him together. So the only ruined one group. Which is, that is Jeff Slim and at his brilliant test.

Great thing they play good, though. So they get up and it's poor and rain. The first hole is a driver and a three iron for these guys. And somehow Patrick, the front of us is Tiger and Stryker plane, whoever they're playing. And Patrick Harrington's playing with whoever against us. And Harrington hits into them. Flies it on the green rolls. They're up there putting the ball goes flying around and over the green into the chipping area. I'm going to do it. What is going on in this? I've never seen that on a PJ tour other than you. I've never seen that. I was in the game. Oh, yeah. Okay. So I think it's I had no you know, anybody something can I was kind of it's pouring right? I was kind of weird. So the... I was in the... Yeah, okay. So I think it's... No, you don't get anybody.

So I'm thinking that was kind of... It's pouring right? It was kind of weird. So, Overton hits it in the same place. And then Bubb is making Bogey, and then whoever Overton's partner is making Bogey, maybe it's Polter or somebody. And so they're both other green... Chip shots.

It's... It's hardest shot. As you can... I'm hiring Ten hits at about 20 feet by. So they're gonna make Bogey. Looks like. And Over 10's over this ball, and he's having, and he took like three minutes to hit this, that's a potter up over the chipmere,

and I'm sitting, it's pouring rain, and I'm going, oh my God, I go, it's getting dark, and what's this guy doing? Hit the ball, and when they, makes it, wanna, I'm going, holy shit, I'm on the radio, it's just, it's just, it's unbelievable, you can't get it on the green, from there, He made it.

Next old part five bubble Watson knocks it up in front of the green. Two makes pretty two down. We get to the third tee and call him Montgomery Stead and there with his hands. I was, what is going on? You're losing to these two shbums. And goidos.

Like, go to shb. What are those guys? They win like three and one. Was that kaboom baby? That was the next match. He hold the boom, baby. He holds a four. Obviously that match, Ian Polter played the best of any.

But Ian Polter and Graham McDowell played really well. Graham had told one last match. But on the American side, Tiger played well. Tiger striker were a good team. Jeff Overson was the best American player that way. He really played great golf. Bubba had a tough time. His father was ill blah, blah, blah. He really played great golf. Bubba had a tough time as father was ill blah blah blah. And it was, it, it, it, they played as a team really

well. But you got into it. And official. I did. Yeah. Well, that's a whole no. Well, he was over here. So I think I'm interviewing. So, another man. So we had all this rain. This is, how much time have you got? My way, this is, you know, you know, this weird. This story is why Cory had you as...

Maybe, I want to... I think I should have been in charge of dealing with the media. But he also knew that you were willing to stand up. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. You're working on a backup. So we're playing, so I got Bob and Overton are playing him and As and somebody. I'm so bad at work. This is the worst part about being 55. And so we had had all this rain and we're trying to figure out how to get all the matches and so we're actually having at the day where there's everyone's playing all six matches. So we're having four matches of four ball and two matches

of two ball turn it shot. And in the infinite wisdom, they went two best balls out then the two alternate shots in the middle and then the two more best ball. But it is confusing. Yeah. Why don't you put them out first? Because they're going to play faster.

So the guy from the PJ America, you guys set up the golf courses, you know, he is so he goes well What we're gonna do is we're gonna have him play through you. I go what is this the Pasadena to ball But you mean they're gonna play through us This is nonsense I would just put up them out first Well, there's there's always a strategy will you they want to so the guy in the last group in the morning That we's putting the first group they try to screw with pairings that way so they make people wait and stuff. That's little bit of the strategy I guess I didn't get that part of it either, you know, so

we're playing and it's Tiger and Stryker playing alternate shot and then the behind us and on number two They're they've hit and they're waiting for us and I go to to our walking rules official, who's a member of the European P and P.J. Mary. I don't think it's the European rules official, because they're gonna play through us. And I go, they're gonna play through us right now. So we're not gonna hit any more shots. There's no. Okay, well, Overtons gotta go to the bathroom.

And it's 10 billion people. It's only four, it's only four. It's way more condensed. And so I have to get them to a bathroom. So I have some pushing people out of the way and it's muddy and I get them to a bathroom. So I have some pushing people out of the way and it's muddy. And I get them to the bathroom and they play through us. And they come back and him and his head is shot.

He didn't want to wait. So he hits his third shot into the par five. Well, me and the overtenter in the bathroom. And Bubba comes up to me and Bubba goes, he hit and he was, he wasn't away. I was away, but I was waiting. So now he's hit out in the sense, hit out a turn. And then him and as he's saying, no, we didn't have a turn.

I was away and I didn't want to wait. Now there's this big argument. And I wasn't there for it to happen. I didn't know it was, he told me we weren't going to plough. So it just calmed down, Bubba. It'll be fine. You know, and they tie the whole. Next goes a part three.

And we get to the fourth hole. And now there's another group, the second group that's playing alternate shots catching up to us and waiting. And I go to the guy who looked, they're not playing through us until we finish the hole. They want to play through us. They have to do it after we finish the hole, not the middle of the hole.

And that was ridiculous. You lied to me. You said they weren't going to play anymore golf. We left. They played golf. This is ridiculous. No more. So they give you, oh, that's fine.

So we play the fourth hole. So we go to the him and as whoever's partner was and they had the honor, we're not going to tee off on five. We're going to let them play through. Okay, it's getting dark. We're only going to play a couple more holes anyways. And then they have a mess. So they're out there taking rulings and drops,

and they take like 10 minutes to putt on the fourth, they take it for every, we're just in there. And Sergio and him and his are, we need to play. Fine, we can play, I'm great with that, but they're not playing through this the next hole. And then no, we're gonna wait. So we sat there and waited for 15 minutes,

and we played one hole and it got dark. And I was screaming at this rules official. I'm going, this is a joke, you screwed us on the last. I feel my job. The players need to play. I'll take care of this. I told this to Baba. I'll take care of the rules official.

So I'm given the whole time on the third hole in the fourth fair, I'm telling you, you're competent. And I'm just way overreacting because I'm in motion and So they then they we play the next hole and then they call play because it's gotten too dark and They say your thingy I get the players I get the players and boom I get them in there and now I got there And I'm stuck and I go I don't have a ride back in So I do there's a car coming by hey get I jump in the cart. It's the rules of fish And I probably should walk in at this point I'm just laughing thinking thinking about Bubba and him and his interact. It's an interesting group. We can't let you go Kevin without talking about the 2002 match play.

What were your expectations? I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure.

I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. It's an interesting. It was an interesting group. We can't let you go Kevin without talking about the 2002 match play What what were your expectations going into that week? What was your you played David Devall in the first round? I did and it you know it's You know my expectations were you know what we two you were a 62 seed. I was 62 seed

You know, I'm not sure I had expectations really, except for the fact, Paul credits. No, I called it on Tuesday. I can't tell you Paul's a gloating right now. Yeah, he said that he called it on Tuesday, that was the win. We were at Tucson and I said, they asked who's gonna win. I go, Kevin's not gonna win.

He plays Walnut, California, he always said, Andy Ago, he's Torrey Pines, he dominates. I did play Walnut, Andy Ago. No, he going to win this tournament. I mean, I was semi-half kidding and semi-being loyal, but I called it on before the match started. And I know that because they came into the fitness trailer and you were two down with two to play the first match. They go nice pick. Well, that was, that's where I was going to go with it, though. The reality is if I go back, I was actually, I felt like I was hitting the ball really well, leading into that tournament. I was struggling a little bit with the putter

and I went to the claw that week. For the first week, I've ever put it with the claw. In fact, I can only put it with the claw three weeks. Total. One was winning the WG3. The one was a win of a world event, but so I guess maybe I should have stuck with it longer than that.

I remember I used it the masters that year and I put it so bad that I just, I don't think I ever put it again. Just totally ruined my claw putting. But whatever. So I get to, I'm two down with two to play. And it's just funny how where things go, especially in match play. I birdie 17, I make about 15 footer to win the hole. Make a 15 footer on 18 that extend the match. We both par, David and I both par one. And then he actually hit the wires on his second shot. And he looked like I think he hit it in my shot.

He got a replay. He hit the wire, had had to replay it and then hit it over the green. I knocked it on the green to par 5. He didn't go, no, I took it when the match. But it goes back to these two 15 footage you make. If you don't make those things, it's like you can toss in the first round. It's nothing. Your career is probably a lot different.

Yeah, and also you make these parts and it leads, you know, it just compounds itself to all of a sudden you win the match play. And it's just so, I think it applies also to stroke play a little bit of that. You don't know what's ahead of you. You just keep playing. And what's ahead of you, you don't know when that good golf

is actually going to kick in. And for me, it kicked in right then at the right time. And you ran through Furek and Tom's like, you're... Yeah, I played Paul McGinley. And actually, I've talked to Paul about this since then. And he said to me, I played really well against Paul. And it was shaking hands on our last hole. He goes, Kevin, you can win this thing.

And I thought about that the rest of the tournament. I remember thinking, and I said this to him, he goes, he's looking for his cut, still is, okay. But he said, and I thought, because, you know what, there's no reason why I shouldn't be thinking about winning this thing. I mean, if Paul thinks like it, why can't I? Exactly.

He didn't know that I'd called. I probably told him a month later. No, I didn't know that. But I honestly, every day I was going to the course, I was thinking about, you know what, there's no reason why I can't win this thing. Sure. And if Paul, if other people have this confidence to me, I should have the same confidence. I feel like you, the, I don't know if it's the TV execs or the tour is like conspired against it.

I feel like you're always cited that O2 match play is always cited. Yo, like this is what can happen if we match play to a black Scott McHarrin. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Or like the... I think golf fans, that's the kind of the problem, is that we're... the golf fans. That's kind of the problem is that we're, the golf fans find with that. It's the, it's the ancillary fan.

Yeah, really is the difference. We have our core, or whatever that rating is. They're going to watch it. That's not going to change. It's not going to change. It's the ancillary fan. That we're quite frankly not great at selling to anyway. We had Tiger Woods, double D, basically television ratings.

But we didn't have a sell to that. Right. You know, it's not necessarily a... Well, we didn't have a sell to that. Right. You know, it's not like a... Well, you could be recurring guests or the spot-cats we talked about this all the time. All the tournaments in Tiger, all the match play Tigers, Tiger One, when they didn't change the format, had nothing to do with it. It was the McCarron, Sutherland, Final. Yeah.

We're like, how do you guys change the system? Well, it's not fun. But it all do respect Kevin. It's not just that tournament Every time Kevin played really well at tournament they either redid the course of Or when they did the Years ago when you won. Oh, yeah, exactly. It's the whole We can't have

We play the woodlands now on the campus There's a true Southern proofing the tour they did we get to know I love the woodlands We played there. We play there now on the campus where we play there in. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth. Reese Jones, give me completely redid the law course. I was hoping he'd play well at Coghill, but I hated that place. LeCosta, the next year. Yeah, they switched the ninth. They switched ninths. They moved every T-back like 30 yards and grew the six inches of rock.

I'm like seriously. I'm like seriously? I was kind of offended. Yeah, it's not an isolated incident. He always used to say he was hoping I'd play well at Coghill, so they'd It's not an isolated incident. He always just say, he was hoping I'd play well in Coghill, so they'd change it off, of course. All right, we're gonna let you guys out here shortly,

but I got two questions. How many times have you guys been fined in your career? Zero. No, four. Four times? What were the incidents? Well, one, I will say this real quick, before he gets into all four. One of them is actually every single player on the PJ tour, including a few employees,

should be chipping in to prepay for his fine because they actually changed the deal. So I first find was I was my rookie year and I was like a hundred and you know, back then making the top 150 was a big deal you got status if you were the 126 to 150 category you played 20 events now you played none and I was like 152 and you know that was gonna make it and I was playing Callaway Gardens and I'm a California Ibermutagrass was like you know like living on Mars I could try to breathe I didn't even know what was going on I look a put up, I'd break up Hill, I didn't know what was going on. In the middle of nowhere George.

Yeah, it's great. I grew to like, really like the place. But I mean, the first year there, you're kind of, you're in a bad mood, you're missing news in your card, you don't know what's going on. And I three put some hall and I just mumbled off a few words that you're not supposed to say. And the best, that's fine.

I don't have a pro, I think language, you know, we should find. You're gonna find me for that. I really don't have an issue with that. But the best part is that guy wrote a letter to the tour saying that I offended the person standing next to him. I didn't offend him, but I offended the person next to him. I go, well, why didn't they write the letter? I thought that was just a fascinating letter.

You got fine for that? I did, that was my rookie. But they're gonna find a rookie every time. So when you just, just something in the gallery. And then again, how am I gonna get gallery? Can I have a Callaway Garden?

I mean, I could probably, I probably, you know, I can remember the guy standing in a mirror. What are they changed? What we said they changed. So, this is the next one. So, it's a fine number two. I met the World Series of Golf,

which used to be at Akron before it was a World Golf championship. And I'm leading. I shoot 66 the first round. The only time I ever broke in 75 at Firestone. And the first round I played there, and I'm playing Billy Mayfield the second round we both shot four, and they repaired. I'm in the last group, and we get rained out.

So, I only got to play 34 holes on Saturday. He played, started seven in the morning, and I'm done at five o'clock at the afternoon or whatever. And I play 34 holes on Saturday. You play, start at 7 in the morning, and I've done it five o'clock at the afternoon or whatever. And I proceeded 34 holes. I think I made 15 bogies and 19 bars. It's a hardest course in the world, I think. Now I go from lead in the turn, like, 55th place. And so now I can get a flight home,

I go to home after this week to Orange County, I can get a flight home on Sunday night instead of Monday. So I call PJ to her travel. But we're going ahead. And so they go, sorry, you know, we're closed. Our hours on Saturday are from 10 a.m. to 4 p.m. Please leave a message and we'll get back to you. And I go, you're open from 10 to 4, but guess when we play golf, from 10 to 4, you should be open from 4 to 10. And every word that I have, I mean, I'm in a bad mood.

I mean, I just shaltly shot, you know, 76. It was a voicemail. Voice mail, every word I got, I mean, I released the entire vocabulary that I have. I even made upwards that were that are dirty. And I just went off for about two minutes. And they find me and changed the hours. So you were right.

They didn't like that. Took one for the team. Yeah, exactly. That's back to where I thought every single, because it was ridiculous at the time. But I just went off on them. I just went off on them. And that everybody benefited from Paul's,

what was it, find back then? Five hundred bucks. Yeah, okay. What are the other back then? Five hundred bucks. No, okay. What are the other two times? So then I, we're playing that course in the new course in San Antonio, the TPC, the divorce course. So I played Saturday and I did a batch on it, buried an A-dion in the fairway short.

You know one of those buries, rules, Fischel-Salt and wrote me up. I go, that happens every day. I go, I have it every day. I go, well not every day. Every time. Every time. And I, he gave me, he tells me on, before on Sunday. So he says me a breakfast after,

so my round goes, hey, I wrote you up for Barry and your Ada, whatever, I earned on 10. And I go, what, what are you talking about? And if you have that, that's fine. Write it up and send it to the tour. Don't tell me the next day at breakfast. Yeah. I'm just rubbing it in and send it to the tour. Don't tell me the next day at breakfast. Yeah. I'm not right.

Just rubbing it in my face. Come on. Let me yell at somebody else about it later on. And that one was whatever. And then I also have another distinction of being fine to making a whole and one the same nine. You got fine for a whole and one? No.

Colonial. What did you do at the time? So colonial. Like, I find this is in finesteens articles. I'm a colonial Saturday to nut house, the 13th hall, to all those people, I make a whole one on 13 at colonial places going nuts. I mean, it's bedlam.

And it was really one of the cooler things that happened. So I only hold one in a competition on PJ tour. And they do the caddy race. It's a big hole pink it's pink out everybody's wearing pink for breast cancer what it's just nuts but so so if you so when you're you tee off 13 and 14 the T's in the same place which is kind of odd so I kind of get my boy walk up to the tee we put out the group behind us is not on 13 not on 12 and I think we see him on 11 there are two holes behind us but I don't what do I

care right that's their problem on my problem so we tee off on 14 or whatever we get the 15 and that the pins in the front left behind this bunker with a hazard behind the pin the greens are hard as a rock it's a hundred degrees out and I got drive it really good I'm in pretty good shape I'm probably in the top 15 or 10 or something and I think and I got to drive it really good. I'm in pretty good shape. I'm probably in the top 15 or 10 or something. And I think, and I can't hit it at the flag. I mean, if I hit a nine iron, I'm hit nine iron. If I hit the light pin, I could go in a hazard.

So I played at the right 20 feet. And I hit a 20 feet a good shot. I hit a good putt, make part. So we put the flag and we're walking off. A guy pulls up in a cart to syringe the greens, because they're too hot, and just takes the hose and just soaks the green right next to the hole. And the reason he did is because the group behind us is two holes behind so there's a gap. And one, okay he's got to do it but I'm not happy about it

because now if I'm playing I can hit it at the flag. I see this guy hosing it down. 16 depends behind the bunker, straight down when you're at back right pin. You can't hit it at that end of the win. Hit it. Landspin high goes over the green, dead, make bogey. He comes back. He comes back. He comes back. Hold on a minute. Something's all right here. 17. The pin was tucked in the right corner, hit a shot, landspin, high jumps in the back, bunker, make boat. The guy comes out with the hose hose. It was a great deal.

I think three times. No, I am sideways. I am sideways. Driving on 18 good, there's a rules of fish. The group behind us is on 15, 18 and 15 are kind of near each other. They're not, you can tell, there's no rules of fish. They're not on the clock.

They're two holes behind and they're not on the clock. They're two holes behind it, they're not on the clock. So I walk and down the 18 and see a rules official sitting under the shade under some tree over there. And I walk up and said, so the penalty for being two holes behind is having perfect greens that you can hit shots into. And I explained to him in no uncertain terms, this is bullshit.

We're out here, these guys are two holes behind. The only reason they're syringes in the grains is so they get to play. So the penalty for for slow play now is not a fine, it's better greens. And I'm screaming at him, the crowds are defensive sitting there and he wrote me up for yelling at him in front of the other people. From embarrassing him in the sense. For not doing his job. Right. Well, now they said there was aing, in the sense. For not doing his job. Right.

Well, now they said there was a master. What happened is that somebody in that group had hit it over the grandstand on nine, and it took them like 40 minutes to give the ruling. Which grandstands do. Which grandstands do. We changed the rule about grandstands, and that's fine. But you give them a couple holes to catch up,

and you put them on the clock. Yeah. All right, last one before we let you go. I was told to ask you, Paul, how you got the nickname Sunshine. Well, that's actually in dispute. It seemed dispute. Yeah, there was a rule. There was a, before you guys were with 30 years old,

so you guys are even born. There was a Mark Mitchell used to be a media official on the Hogan tour, Blond hair guy. He'd know where even, he might have given it to me. Jeff Sloomin also likes to come up with that. But it kind of comes from Feinstein's book. He said, I could find a cloud in every silver lining. That was the line that kind of did to the sky.

There's this concept that I completely disagree with that I have a negative. I completely disagree with this, by the way. I just think I have two high expectations. In your interpretation. Having the expectations of Tiger Woods in the game of Paul Goydus is gonna lead to some bad stuff. Wouldn't you agree with that, Steven? Would you always have the right belt on?

I would. Yeah, but yesterday's, but I didn't just slum in someone who coined it and made it stick. You're from my favorite hat that you used to wear was the hat that said lucky. Yeah, I really liked that one. Yeah, just lucky.

Lucky brand, you for jeans Cool, all right. Well, we let you guys go this went longer than then we said we keep you but that was an absolute blast You guys were a treat so anytime love to Talk talk like your commissioner for a day like you to your commissioner for a day. How are you fixing slow play? How are you fixing all? See there's a mistake there? Do you make a mistake you are under the impression that the PJ tour wants to fix slow plot. The premise of the argument is wrong. But I'll say this, we can we talk about that real quick?

Here's my issue with slow play though in the PJ tour and all this is that it's the only sport in America, major sport in America that's not addressing the speed of the game. It's the only sport. We, basketball wants to play faster. Football is playing faster. Baseball is getting rid of timeout. Baseball is trying to find a way. The World Series didn't help. It didn't help, but they're trying to find a way to like, shot clock, whatever, I mean,

pitch clock, I mean, anything to speed up the game. And golf is doing nothing really to speed up the game on the high competitive level. So, and it's something that has, and I think it's going to take guys like Keppka, what she's doing, to, because it's going to take the elite player to say, this is wrong and something needs to change, if for anything actually will change. But it's the only sport that I can think of that doesn't care, just seem to care about the speed of the game. And again, you know, that started a little bit with Eduardo Moranari posting the pace.

I think the pace of, I didn't see it, but he posted the pace of play stuff about the European tour. And the reason, you know, Fleshy made a comment about this. And I've been on the board of the PJ Tour and on the Champions Tour, one of the pack a bunch. On the PJ Tour, I got to think the first 20 years

I was out there, pace of play was discussed in the pack meeting and on the board, maybe not the board level, but definitely the pack level. Every every single meeting at a player meeting, every single meeting they talked about pace apply and nothing's changed. So after 20 years, and it's probably been 40 years, I think the premise of the argument needs to change that the PGA to or the USG and they don't want to speed up play.

They're happy with the pace of play. Right now, I mean, again, Thursday and Friday with 156 guys, what are you gonna do? But it comes the weekend. If you play an hour faster, that's an hour or less of beer sale, that's an hour or less of food sale. It's an hour or less of commercials. This is a business that these guys, again,

again, they may be giving lip service about trying to improve pace of play, but they are doing nothing. I got in trouble on Twitter, cause about, I don't know, four or five years ago, Chinese kid, 12 year old Chinese kid played the masters. I will do it as a 14 or 15. And he got slow play paddling. Go on to your mom, yeah.

Yeah, slow play paddling at the masters. And I tweeted out, I go, how, we've had slow play for 100 years and it turned out to be a 14 year old kid from China, it was the whole problem. It's nonsense, and he analyzed it. It's nonsense and he analyzed it. It's nonsense. And there was the most ridiculous thing

I think we've ever done in our sport. But it was the penalized of 14 year old kid at the masters. Do you feel like guys now just talking to certain guys, they said, hey, when I came out on tour, guys like Arnie and Jack, they would pull you aside and say, hey, you're slow shit. First is now, it's like, the players don't really police it as much.

Is that? I told the player once he was slow. I've done it. David Ogren, I remember, had a little incident with him in Hawaii. I mean, you are playing for $300 million. And again, if everybody plays absolutely as fast as they can on Saturday and at Tucson, let's say, right now they're taking 4.5, I don't know, they're taking 4.5 on a slow course in 4 hours on a, so they're playing 3.5, right?

That's fast. That would be, I'm thinking maybe, again, that's four commercials that you don't sell. And you have to start altering that a little bit. Is it worth the headache that's coming down the path of penalizing and finding guys for 15 minutes? The question isn't, how long does it take the player? How long is a particular shot take? Are you willing to deal with what's coming

through legal action that's going to come from this? Wait a minute, Jack Nichols played, you know, slow every shot he had. This guy took two minutes and you didn't do anything. I take a minute and a half and you penalize me. Do you want to deal with the legal ramifications to say 15 minutes? If you're a business,

now I'm not saying the players don't want to do that, but if you're Jay Manahan and his legal team, do you want that? I think where I fall out, and college golf's not helping either. Yeah, no. Norris, I mean, I think the AJGAs probably best ones at it as far as it was.

But what college coaches are doing out there now is nonsense. But and your brothers at college, right? Yeah, they're killing it, Sacramento State. They're doing good. Yeah, they won a tournament or less. They won this one in Hawaii and he's had two individual wins last two weeks. Nice. Yeah. But going back, I think when Monahan comes out

and almost comes out in support of JB Holmes a couple of years ago at Torrey Pines, when he took what, four minutes to hit a shot, planning his noran in that playoff and all that. It's like, for me, if you're not willing to even crack down on the most egregious, that's kind of my point. Transgression. So maybe you need to change the premise of the question.

If the same answer keeps coming up, then there's something wrong. And if the answer isn't wrong, it's most of the premise of the question. Yeah, you wonder what TV, because honestly, TV makes the whole thing work. I mean, I'm gonna what they think. I mean, are they going guys? We need to, this thing needs to be faster.

But they're in a set TV window. They're in a tent. It gives them time. They just don't do a good job of it. It gives you more time to get around to different shots when you have it taking individual players. And they're good at it, how? They know JB Slow.

So they don't go to JB for a minute and a half. Cantlay is a good friend of mine. They, at first, they didn't know how to deal with Ray. He'd sit there and take, now they don't. They go to him later. So some players, if they don't know how the Patrick's position, he got a reputation being a very slow player. And part of that, I'm not saying he's not, but part of that reputation came from TV didn't know how to deal with him. Right. They went to him. They went to early. He started his wagels. Yeah. Is the European Tourists still doing that shot clock tournament? They did a shock lock master's, yeah.

Yeah. Each individual situation is different, right? I mean, if you've got a wind gust, if you get a windy day on that tournament, that's gonna be kind of a disaster, I think. I don't think, I don't know. You also have to tie, if you're gonna really do,

you have to tie, yes, have a roast fish on every group time in every shop. Exactly. That's a move point. And it's a lot. Shot link is not accurate enough. No. I volunteer in an iPad is not accurate enough. And that's kind of that. So it's just a money thing. It's a money. It's a money.

I think it for 15 minutes. We're not hungry for three hours. Yeah. For 15 minutes. It's half a sign fell. It all comes back to money. All right. Cool. We're finally letting you guys off the hook. Thank you guys so much for your time. Best of luck in the final here in the championship. Thank you guys so much for your time. Best of luck in the final here in the championship. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Give it a big round of applause. Be the right club today. Yes. Yes. That is better than most. How about it? That is better than most. Better than most. Better than most.