No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 261: Brendon Todd

Episode Date: November 20, 2019

From the deepest depths of the wilderness, to getting into Korn Ferry Finals, to earning a Tour card, to winning on the PGA Tour, and winning AGAIN on the PGA Tour, Brendon Todd breaks down the ups and downs of his last five years. From developing a severe yip, hitting it off the planet, nearly getting into the pizza business, and everything he did to figure it out, this one is a wild ride. His perspective on this is incredible, and we're super appreciative of his time and willingness to get it all on record. The outcome is one of my favorite episodes we've ever done.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! That is better than most. How about in? That is better than most. Better than most! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah!

Expect anything different! Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No Laying Up podcast. This episode is going to be a straight interview from Brendan Todd. I can't believe he held his appointment. We had it scheduled for this Tuesday here at Sea Island and he won Monday in a different country and surprisingly, he act like it was no big deal.

He's like, of course I'll do it. And we recorded this here on Tuesday morning at Sea Island after he just won back-to-back tournaments on the PGA tour after visiting the depths of the wilderness. And we're gonna dive so deep into it. There's no detail really left unturned. We were talking a bit after we stopped recording and I actually almost, I thought about turning the mics

back on for what he was saying of, you know, like that time period, it was hard to go the grocery store, like you just feel down all the time. Golf is just part of it. You'd be like, everything you do, you're still thinking about how crappy you're playing and how just, you could tell how much all of this meant to them. And we do break that down in great detail,

but it's very important to understand all of that context when evaluating what just happened and when he backed back to back tour events, which is just insane. So thanks a ton to Brennan for the time. You guys are gonna love this interview. It's one of my favorite ones we've ever done, just because of the wide range of the golf life,

I guess he has lived. And it's always a lot more fun to do that out the other end and on the good side. Before we do blast this off, it is not too early to knock out the perfect gift for the golf for on your list this holiday season. Our friends at Callaway have made that unbelievably easy to do. You know, we talked about the Chromesoft deal last couple podcasts, but if you go to

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Just take that link, send that on to somebody and say, hey, here's what I want. For Christmas, hey mom, here's a free idea for what I'd like and it takes care of everything. So thanks again to Brennan Todd for the time and without any delay, here is the interview. So take me back a year ago this time. Is that when everything started to turn around?

It really is. I had gone on vacation in August of 2018 and I took Bradley Hughes' e-book with me. It's called The Great Ball Strikers. And it was recommended to me by an old college teammate on our national championship team in 2005 at Georgia, David Denham. And he said, man, I really like these guys' videos online. He's got some really good lower body stuff and some footwork drills. And I think you should check them out.

So I went on his website and got his book, one of a occasion and read it and just thought it was amazing. He talked about his career and what a good player he was and the feelings he had. And then he basically goes through all the grates from Bobby Jones to Ben Hogan to Nicholas, Palmer, Trevino, Sneed, Tiger. And just kind of breaks down their swings and shows you what the real similarity is. And pretty much every good player, no matter when they pick up a club or how long they've been playing, from about halfway down in the Gauss-Wing through impact, it looks pretty similar. Everybody delivers it fairly shallow, gets the face squared up pretty and then releases it and you know finishes to a full finish full balance

This is the 430 impact. Yeah, so he calls it the 430 impact position as if you were looking at a clock And you went to where the 430 hand would be Mm-hmm and you put that clock down below your feet and you try to put the golf club at 430 on the way down It's probably from the down the line camera view, it's going to match your right forearm. I think I saw a recent golf digest article that showed like the top 10 drivers on tour in almost every eye. Pretty much every guy had the driver laying right on his right forearm. So it sort of proved his point. But anyways, I go on vacation, I read this book, I like it, I book a couple

lessons with them. I thought a stuff was really vacation, I read this book, I like it, I book a couple lessons with them. I thought a stuff was really good, but I was still just mentally not there, burned out for missing. And we're far into the process, right? If you've worked with a lot of different people up to this point. I've worked with a few, yeah, but I was just, you know, I was, this is the end of 2018 season. I just missed all eight cuts on the PGA tour that year. It was my third year in a row, basically, of having the swing yeaps and hitting the ball to the right with pretty much anything from a seven iron through a three wood off the ground. I did it sometimes on my driver,

but mostly, like, if I got that, that just long iron or that three wood off the deck where you're looking at that tight little draw or even looking at just a tiny controlled fade, if I got a little quicker ahead of it, the ball went 50 yards right. So I take six weeks off in the fall of 18th September 2018 and Brad has sent me some of his drills. And if you're a Brad Hughes fan, you go online, he has a eight drill series that you can

buy online that are phenomenal and they can help anybody from a professional, a tour pro, the best player in the world to somebody who just picks up a club and that's sort of his genius is that he's broken the swing down into a series of what I would call feelings or forces that you're going to feel in the off swing that will help you line the club up on the way down, field impact should feel like, and field what a proper finish should feel like. He's not that particular about the backswing,

even though he does have a backswing drill in his series. Well, I hope you're getting a commission on the sale of these books, because as soon as I read the article about what you've done to get back to where you are, I'd say, I've downloaded that book immediately. I'm like, oh, this sounds interesting for me. I got through like 20 pages of it. I'm like, oh, this sounds interesting to me. I got through like 20 pages of it. I'm like, man, this is an investment.

Like this is not like a quick tip, this is not a quick tip kind of thing. This is like a philosophy. I'm like, man, I've never thought about my forearms on a downswing or anything like this stuff that he talks about. But it is kind of like a, it was eye opening to me if I go out and never thought of the golf swing like that.

So what is it in particular that about his techniques and drills and fundamentals that stuck out to you the most? Was it the forearm thing on the way down? It's that he wants you to feel things. He wants you to feel pressures in the golf swing and he doesn't want you to paint lines on a camera. That's the biggest thing. Most teachers are going to video your golf swing, put you in this neat studio with cameras

and TVs and lines. They were sitting in right now. we're sitting in right now. And they're going to say, make the club go here and here and here. And they don't really tell you why, except just that they tell you that's going to make you a better golfer, except what it does is make you have a prettier golf swing. It doesn't mean you're going to really know when the face gets to square and where the golf ball is going to go.

So these are pressures that were proven by him when he played well, because he's a two-time Australian master's champion in 93, 98, 94 presidents cut member eight or nine years on the PGA tour from 95 through 2003. He grew up playing with Greg Norman, studied his swing. He's in the book. I really trusted that.

I'm getting this information from a guy who's been there and done that. Who's watched other greats do it. And now has taken, you know, he stopped playing in 2008. He took five years, basically, I believe, to sit down, think about what he wanted to do, how he wants to teach, and come up with all these, he didn't come up with these ideas, he wrote down what he thought was important

in the golf swing, and he went and studied the old swing. Like professionals aren't necessarily, they understand their golf swing, a lot of them, and they don't necessarily aren't prepared for to handle not just another person's swing, but a lot of different golf swings, right? Because everybody's swings the club a little bit differently.

Exactly, and he shows that in the book, because you go from Jim Fierrick to Raymond Floyd, their backswings couldn't be further apart. I mean, literally the club had to probably two feet apart from each other if you were to put those swings on a camera next to each other halfway back. So he just shows you can take it back any way you want and they all bring the club down in a similar fashion

and that's what gets you that pure, squared up strike and impact. So for me, back to your question, what worked for me is he started me off hitting an impact bag with just my left hand and just my right hand from that 430 position. In my basement at home when I'm not going out playing tournament rounds I can literally just retrain my body how to move the right way and I say retrain because obviously I've done this at a high level for probably my whole life but I got

away from it. Part of it was mechanical, part of it was mental, and eventually it was all mental, because I'm sure I was lying in the club nice at times on the range, but I was going to the golf tournaments, and I was scared, and I didn't know where it was going. That's one of my questions. I'm afraid you're hitting it good. What? Sometimes. Yeah, I mean, the thing is, there was three years there, 16, 17, 18, so yeah, for sure,

like, I had the yips for me started, like some people might know, at the 2015 BMW championship in the third round, Final Group of Jason Day, high pressure situation, I've got a four iron ball above my feet on the fourth off from probably two-ten to a front-right flag, and I've got a new golf swing, so to speak. And I don't really trust it right there, and all of a sudden the ball gets 50 yards right in the bushes

I make a triple bogey and I'm like whoa, where did that come from? I haven't at that shot in six years, so you know, where is that coming from and unfortunately I didn't realize that the swing adjustment I'd made before that event Which was just closed my club face going back, is what probably caused this because I had some immediate success with it in the shot, 6863, the first two rounds that week, and hit it pretty solid. So it's like, oh, this works.

Then all of a sudden, you get under pressure and it doesn't work. And you're like, hmm, is it the change? Is it me? Where do you go? So I kind of stick with the feeling through the fall. But I go to Vegas and shoot 6680. I go to Jackson and shoot a couple rounds in the mid-70s. I come here in MDF here at Sea Island,

and I remember being really scared on a few of these T-Shots, like five and seven where you've got hazards right. And all of a sudden, I'm like, we don't hit that 50-yard right shot again. So the- Is that a tough place to play? Yeah, so they go for it. year, like it got in there fast, and it was very mental.

And so for my teacher at the time, he got here, so it was very difficult to then go, okay, let's go back to what we did, or we were doing before we made this adjustment, because then when I come back to tournament golf in the spring, I mean, it's still in my mind. And the thing that people don't realize about competitive golf is, 18 holes takes five hours to play.

That's a lot of time to concentrate. There's a lot of time to think. There's a lot of time to wait between shots. You're going to have a lot of different emotions and feelings and pressures during the round. And then, over the course of four rounds, it's 20 hours. So, you really are putting in some time out there. We have to be very calm, very focused, very trusting in what you're doing.

And that's something you cannot practice on the range, right? I mean, you can get it. So, but I want to go back to you. You've described this as a YIP. What is a, I think everyone listening to this knows has their own version of what a YIP is. But in your mind, what is a YIP? Because not a lot of people associate that

with the full golf swing. Yeah, a YIP is when you can do something automatically, a movement automatically that you've done, probably thousands, 10,000 of times, which is the golf swing for me or the putting stroke for any pro, putting, shipping, golf swing. We've all done it 10 plus thousands of times.

And in a way, it's really automatic. You go up and down the range of the PGA Tour event and everybody hits it good, they put it good, they chip it good. But you see guys in baseball, basketball, free throws, probably archery, field goal kickers, golfers, they get what's described as the Yips, where they're performing in automatic motion that they've done tens of thousands of times, and when it comes time to do it in competition, they have a performance anxiety or a mental block that causes their motor pattern to stop working the same way and kind of spas out.

And so, what was your yip in particular? The ball's going way right. Is it just at impact you had trouble closing the club face, you're coming over the top, I don't understand the calls for that. Right, so for me, the thing that was so frustrating about it is that, you know, we pro golfers work on, all golfers work on our routines, and we get our routines dotted to be the same every time,

and that's what a sports psychologist would tell you is gonna be the answer to, you know, hitting the ball consistently well. Well I've had the same routine at this time for like six or seven years and now I've had it for probably ten years. So while all of a sudden that routine stopped working for me, well when I would get over the ball and I would take my last look at the target and I would take my last waggle, by the time I start pulling the club back I've got so much pressure in my hands and my arms

and my brain is literally just like, oh my gosh, don't hit it right. And for me, all that extra attention in my hands and arms led to a faster transition at the top and then a little bit of a steeper downswing and just no time to square the face up as you set it in packed. And that's when the thing is that while like I said, we hit 70 some shots around or 60 some shots around. And it didn't happen every time, but it would happen for some reason a few times around just enough to shoot 74 instead of 70 enough to throw fear in you. I exactly not be able to play with confidence because the way you

guys aim shots and the way you guys approach shots, you can't stand over a ball and fear it going some direction. It's like, no, I've got to hit it at this target. And so I imagine you have played at least, you know, to the point where you've got to be extremely successful and competitive, that the way you're aiming is very different than when things started to go wrong. Yeah, so the difficult part for me was it did change the way I aimed. I'm all of a sudden aiming to more general targets. I'm aiming just in the middle of green, in the middle of fairways, and it was more difficult to create that

visual that you went over the ball second. Okay, this ball is going to start right center and it's going to turn left center and it's going to get 10 feet right of the flag or, you know, it's going to start in the edge of the left or off and just fade into the middle of fairway. And like you said, what a professional golfer is on. Their aim is very specific. The picture in their head is very clear. And we are able to hit it very close to the hole.

So from what I gather though, your struggles, we're going to call that the stretch from 16 to 18, it was not necessarily just the YIP, because the YIP triggered you taking a lot of action with your golf swing So what else what did you do to try to combat this? What were you working on? What changed in the rest of your game to kind of because that was the way I see it is the Yip kind of was like the Jenga a piece of the Jenga Jenga board that kind of everything kind of fell apart after that So can you we're gonna eat the positive stuff here? Yeah, I promise, but kind of take us through that.

By the end of 2016, obviously I finished two, or nine, maybe on the PGA tour FedEx list. So I don't have PGA tour status modest, my fast jamming status, I don't have corn fairy tour status. I go to the corn fairy, second stage of Q school, and I miss. And so I knew I had the next year I would get some past champion of starts.

But really for me it was just I didn't work a whole lot with the teacher the first half of that year and I really just tried to go back to feeling some of the feelings I'd have when I played well. And I did that and I mean I had some decent results. I went and shot 66 and the Tampa Qualifier and Monday to end, but I missed the cut. And I went to the Byron Nelson and made the cut and finished 40 something. And then I go to Wilmington for the Walls Fargo Championship

and I shoot 68 and Monday Qualifier. But I couldn't make any of the cuts because even though I could shoot 66 or 68 on a 7,000-yard Monday Qualifier course when I get on the big golf course There's still just not enough confidence there in the tank and there's both right in mid or long irons on the Yeah, I mean you're hitting nothing, but you know four to seven irons for me being a below average length hitter So I was just in a position where I was still aiming to generally didn't have a specific shot shape And I just really wasn't fully back. So at the end of 17, you know, me and

Scott Hamilton are still working a little bit. And he recommended I go talk to another teacher, Vijay Troleo. So I do something his stuff from December of 17 through about April of 2018. And he's a great guy and I love him to death. And I feel like, you know, some of his principles are very sound. And I'm probably doing some of them a lot better now. But at the time, it just wasn't clicking. And I don't really know why that was. And that's the thing about the struggles

is that just because one teacher works and those teachers doesn't, doesn't always mean that that teacher is so much better than the other. Sometimes it's just timing. It's a match up. Yeah, like when do you go work with a guy or you're coming off some stressful lengths or do you have some time off?

Is maybe their formula right for you? Maybe it isn't right for you. The biggest thing I've learned through this because unfortunately I've had two slumps in my pro career. I like to feel like the club face opens going back and squares up coming down. And if you tell me to keep it square or close going back, I'm probably going to get in trouble. Maybe not initially, but definitely down the road. So,

it's too bad I had to learn it twice and it's too bad I've had to have a three-year struggle, but I think we can say today, right now, that it was maybe not worth it, but it's made me so much stronger, so much better. It's provided me this opportunity now to have great success and understand my game and myself so much better. And I feel like now, you know, sort of the golf is my oyster in a way and I actually have an opportunity now to go have a really long successful career out here, which has always been my dream.

Well, that's, I mean, again, we're coming off directly off back-to-back wins on the PGA tour. I mean, this is the biggest layup easy question you can have. Like, could you have pictured this happening? Or I guess, better question. When was the first time you thought you could picture this all happening for you again? Again, it wasn't until, permuta, really. Really?

Yeah, because winning back-to to back is so difficult out here. I don't even necessarily mean winning back to back. I mean, like competing, like being extremely competitive. Not even necessarily winning, but like saying. So I would say, you know, back at the Wells Fargo this year, I finished 17th or 18th in that shot. Maybe a Bogey free 400 on Sunday there. And I really felt like I was back.

Because that's a very demanding golf course. T-Degreene, I had to hit a lot of good drivers, a lot of good fives and six irons into the greens there. And I did it well. I played very solid that week. So I think that was probably the week where I was like, OK, I feel pretty good about where my game's heading. I've got a lot of confidence in my ball striking.

How did you get that start? Was that past champ start? I got a sponsor exception. So shout out to the Wells Fargo championship and their tournament director tournament director Gary soba who was super nice and generous to me to give me a spot this year and you know I've told him a million times how much that rejuvenated my career yeah well that's that's we caddy dj and i went out and caddy'd at the monday qualifier for here yesterday and like legitimately the conversation around that was like, hey, Brendan Todd was here a year ago, he's got 61 and got into RSM.

And like you were literally, while we were out there, we're like following it and you would want the event. So it's like something that I can, people can view Monday qualifiers and kind of get beaten down by them. It's very low percentage people to get in. And then even when you get in,

you're not guaranteed to make the cut, of course. And it's, but it's like Also your life can change with one golf tournament and so for you and in 20 Sorry, this was 2019 you're playing you have no status anywhere correct except for you're getting your skidding pass champ starts Is that right correct? And so you played enough on the PJ tour in 2019 through pass champs and probably through this finish it with Wells Fargo to get enough points to be 126 to 200 on the FedEx which gets you into corn fairy finals. Right. Which, first take us there.

So let's go back to, I've read Brad's book. I'm doing his drills at home in September. I'm taking a month off of golf. And I get a phone call from an old caddy on the nationwide tour award-javis and he is now a performance golf coach and he's a stutterer and he has what he would call performance anxiety and he says look I can help you he says I think what I battle with stuttering is similar to what you're battling with the

Yips and golf and at that before then I probably never even called them the Yips because I you had an identify I really I wouldn't believe it you know people ask me like you know how did you go three years playing that poorly? I never believe you could come back. And for some reason, I look at golf, the practicing golf mooras, like a process and something I enjoy doing. And essentially playing on the PJ tour is the dream I had as a little kid. So I had enough money in the bank to afford the struggle for three years and not make money

and keep the belief. And I took the approach that I am going to go play Monday Qualifiers. I probably played 10 to 15 each year, 17 to 18 and 19. I mean, I probably played 10 or 12 more this year. And I viewed those Monday qualifiers as my tournaments. So I would prepare during the week before just like, guys would prepare for a regular PJ Tour event. And I would go there on Sunday morning,

I'd play practice round, I'd spend the night, I'd be disciplined, I'd show up the next day and try and shoot a low round. And I would learn from whatever I did in that, and I would try and go get better for the next one. So during that time off in September, I knew I had the second stage of Q-School coming up again and I had ward helping me out, I had Brad helping me out, and all of a sudden things start to click when I picked the clubs up again in October, and I'm

playing some nice golf. And I remember I walked four rounds at home to try and get ready for second stage, so I hadn't played tournament two and a half months, which you don't really hear if two or players walking all that often. I haven't played some rounds by myself. I mean, I always like I'm doing this. And I go to second stage, I shoot maybe 71, 74, 68. And I know the last round, and I'm in Mobile, Alabama.

Scores are low. And I know I've got to shoot probably 61 to qualify. So essentially, I've got a Monday qualifier on my hands for the fun around. It's like go out guns blazing play the best round of your life and see if you can make it. So I'm trying to birdie every hole and I happened to shoot 9 under 63 that day and it was like man that was fun. I felt in the zone that was a good feeling. That's what wardsman tell him he's like you just got to sort of neutralize the negative you know get what get what he would call forwardly, constructive with your game. You know, look at each day as a new opportunity

to go out there and play great. I did a great job of it that day. And so then I've got the RSM qualifier, it runs with Country Club coming up, which is a place I've played. And I go out and shoot 961, and I'm like, holy cow. It's there.

It's there. Funny story about that day. I'm carrying a golf bag that on the seventh hole, I pick up the bag with a strap to walk up to the green. I'm 300 par and I've got 15 feet from Burdy in the strap breaks. And I'm like, oh my gosh. I'm playing great right now.

I can't believe this is happening. I'm gonna have to get a caddy at the turn to carry my bag suitcase style. And I go make the putt and I come over and I find a way to fasten the strap back to the bag. And I go to the next little hystripe it and make a par, a birdie nine, a birdie ten, and then I shoot 61. But I literally thought that the broken strap was gonna derail my, you know, like the

best round of my life, if you will, from Caddy Shack. And qualify in, shoot four rounds in the 60s. And that's when I got the momentum to be like, all right, I'm not pursuing anything else. I'm going to play golf for at least another year. I'm going to chase these Monday qualifiers. I'm going to play my fast champion in starts. And, you know, I went on to, you know, build up a pretty solid year because in 10 or 11 events, you know, I probably made $350,000 in qualified for the Corn Ferry Finals. Because that's the thing too. And that's the big thing.

Is there's a certain comforts, not the right word, right? But when you make out your schedule, when you know you're going to play 25 events, you can game plan. You're going to choose the courses you want to play. You can plan for your family life. Like there's more things that go into it. When you don't know when courses you want to play, you can plan for your family life. Like there's more things that go into it when you don't know when you're going to play,

then the pressure on each week has to be that much greater. So are you, let's go back actually. Let's, I heard you say some things about, you were thinking about giving it up, you were close to maybe giving it up. What was the closest you got to it? And what was, I mean, obviously the struggles are what leads to that, but what was,

were you getting kind of beaten down just saying, I don't wanna do this anymore? Well, take us to the low point. You know, after I missed all the cuts in 2018, and I've said, take six weeks off, I mean, my wife and I were definitely talking about potentially doing something else and trying to find another way to make a living.

So, my financial manager from Atlanta drew Clept Check, drove over to Athens and sat down and we had a nice meeting and just like look, you're still OK financially, but I do think it's good for you to at least explore options elsewhere. He's like, you can go in the corporate world, you can become a college golf coach, you can open a franchise.

He's like, personally, I think if you're looking to still place some golf, he's like, I think owning some sort of a franchise is probably the way to go. And you end up finding a good manager and they run it. And he had a friend who helped your pie, which is a pizza franchise out of Athens, start these pizza franchises. And so he helped them and he's helped some other franchise

companies. So we're going to sit down with him in December and have a meeting. And then I go to second stage and then I go to the RSM and I play well. And we squash the meeting and we say, okay, you're off and running. So it was that close. It was that close. Yeah, if I did not shoot 61 in the RSM Monday, Qualifier and I shoot 68 and I miss, I'm probably not sitting here today.

Oh my goodness, that's unbelievable. What, take me to another person, a book that you read, also that helped you kind of, this came from Ward, I believe. Right. Another person that has dealt with kind of this performance anxiety that you mentioned, take us to with the book that you read.

Right, Rick Ankeel, who is a famous facial player for the St. Louis Cardinals, wrote a book called The Phenomenon. And it talked about his battle with the pitching yips. He was a superstar baseball player from the time he was little in the state of Florida. And he went on to the major leagues, and he's a young, hot rookie sensation.

And I'm not sure if it was his first or second or third year in the big leagues, but he's pitching in the first game of a series in the playoffs. And he throws five or six wild pitches that pass the catcher. And he, at that moment, lost his ability to control the pitches.

And for a guy who's been such a great athlete his whole life and probably it didn't throw five or six wild pitches all year. That was a really scary moment for him. And he wasn't able to come back, you know, pitching the next couple of years and be anything like he was before that that game. So he had to take a step back and re-evaluate and sort of reorganize himself as a basal player. He decided to become an outfielder and work his way back up. And I think he played some honor league ball, and then he got back to the majors,

and I think he ended up winning the World Series as an outfielder. So just a super story about a guy who dealt with performance anxiety and kind of went through the same thing that a lot of athletes go through where you're great, and then all of a sudden, you have this you know one bad motion and it you know just uproots your career.

So are you reading this and just thinking like, whoa that's me that's me that's me that's me. Yeah exactly. What I think is fascinating about this is all these kind of things circling up together right. Right. Which is the Rick and Keel part word talking about coming from the stuttering background right you with the full swing and we've I mean countless of PGA not so PGA is where players but just people in general big Randy one of our guys as well has dealt with a YIP with the putting stroke so I think the first piece advice would be to read this book as far as getting over that mental hurdle but if you're to give teach some lessons about what you've learned mentally

and how you got past that you mentioned some of them kind of been passing about channeling the negative or neutralizing the negative but what are the lessons take us there yeah I think so let's say you're you're a that you mentioned some of them kind of been passing about channeling the negative or neutralizing the negative. But what are the lessons? Take us there. Yeah, I think, so let's say you're a golfer and you know, whether you're playing matches with your buddies at home, your home course or you're playing amateur events or professional golf, you have to understand that 18 holes is a four or five hour experience and there's going to be a lot of waiting during that round.

Every round you play, there's going to be a lot of waiting during that round. Every round you play, there's going to be a lot of waiting. And then there's waiting in between rounds. So you have to learn how to not beat yourself up when you're waiting, but build yourself up. So don't remember all the bad shots you hit. Let's think about some of the good shots you've hit. Let's go to the let's think forwardly about the future shots you want to hit. So I think that skill in and of itself is maybe one of the most important to let's say never getting the yips or if you are battling maybe some struggles like everybody does to neutralizing those struggles and not making them worse than they actually are because we as

humans do a very good job of turning okay situations into bad situations instead of okay situations into great situations. So and then the other thing I would recommend is the probably the best lesson I got from Bradley Hughes this year was in, I want to say, April or May, but we were on the driving range at the University of Georgia and he asked me to rate the tension in my hands, my arms, and my feet over the ball, out of ten. And I said, my hands are a seven, my arms are an eight, and my feet are an eight. He's like, all right, let's make them all a three. He's like,

and hit a couple shots. And then he said, okay, that felt better, because I was freer. And then he said, all right, ideally, we would want your arms to stay to three, because when your arms get tight, the club stays really far away from you, and then it's heavy, and then you're gonna do things to compensate for that coming down, and you're gonna lose your timing.

He's like, so let's keep your arms a three, but let's make your hands and your feet a five before you go back. So you're putting the most important, you're putting the pressure in the two places that actually are fixed to something. Your feet are fixed to the ground, your hands are fixed to the club. And when I did that, all of a sudden, my arms are free.

And so they're moving, um, like sort of a flowing state. I'm like taking notes right now, like this is my problem. And then my hands now have the control to control. Where the club goes, how much it sets, where the face goes, and squaring it back up. And for me, that was huge, not only because it made me hit the ball better at that moment, but it was something tangible I could use in competition

when I'm under the most intense pressure, like I was this past weekend in Mexico, or even yesterday, or if I'm just warming up for a round and I want to make sure my swing feels good that day. So now I've got a scale to rate my tension level and to create rhythm and timing in my golf swing, which is probably the most important thing we have is rhythm and timing.

Yeah, like legitimately, that attention thing. I'm like, well, yeah, I do agree with it really tight. That's amazing. All right, so let's go back. We've done all this build up, and I think that's very, very, very important to cover to set up for, we're back at Bermuda, because you're coming off for miscuts.

Why don't you just, for miscuts, but then I made the cut in Houston with that miraculous bunker shot on nine, my 18th hole on Friday. So is that, are you building off what happened in Houston? No, no. So you're showing up. Okay. So you're in Bermuda. You're feeling you're feeling you're feeling good going into that week. I'm feeling great. Really good. I just shot. I want to say 65 or six in the

final round of Houston. So I played a heck of a round on a golf course that's long for me. Never been my favorite golf course on tour. And so for me, that's a heck of a round. So now I've got a 63 at second stage, a 61 at the RSM qualifier. I shot 10 under the Osobin qualifier, 36 hole section qualifier. I shot a bogie free four round, the fauna round at quail. I shot a low round, the fauna round in Houston.

And I finished second in Columbus with a bogie free, or maybe a one bogie free or maybe a one bogie final round 66. So I've now played some very important rounds this year and I'm going to Bermuda like all right I've made a cut this fall my game's in a good place I played some great rounds in Houston and I get to Bermuda and it's just a golf course that fits my eye perfectly. To do a backup just to be clear, through this whole last year, is there even one single Yip moment at any point?

I did have one come up, a couple come up there in Evansville, Indiana. So the third Corn Ferry finals event. So let's just say during the year, the interesting thing was, from second stage of cue school last fall, through the John Deere. I can honestly say I was walking in the shots still fearing hitting it 50 yards right.

But I was able to focus on the right pressures on my golf swing and still hit good shots. And I was like, man, all right, I've got this. But why can't I get that fear walking into the shot out of my head? So I talked to Ward and I talked to Brad a little about it. And you know, Ward's advice is just like look, you've got to look at this in three moments, you've got, you're going to plan the shot, that's your planning moment, you're going to execute the shot, that's your execution moment and you've got your feedback moment when you see the result. He's like, you need to get from the planning moment to the execution moment and instead of freaking out during that time that all of a

sudden you have to execute and you're afraid of a bad result, relax and say, I've planned it, I'm going to hit it and then I'm going to get feedback and then I'm going to go wait and then I'm going to go do it again. And so he looks at this as just like four moments in that there's plan it, execute it, feedback and then wait. And it kind of freed me up to say, okay, I know the fear is there, but if I actually practice moving from planning to executing a little bit better,

maybe I can learn how to relax during that time. So instead of trying to get rid of the fear, it's like, let's address it, let's see that into it. Yeah, let's move our attention over to what we want, which is to hit a good shot. We want to see the ball go into this little circle on the green that you've pictured in your eye during the planning moment. So that was a very important time for me, and I was able to use that to play well at the

John Deere where I topped 20, then I think the next week was Lexington, I made the cut, and Reno, I finished maybe top 25. And then I go to the Corn Ferry Finals and I finish second place at the first event in Columbus and I'm feeling great, no yips. I've reduced the fear, walked into the shot, some navigating the moment's really good. And I get to Evansville, Indiana, the third Cornfairy final event of our... After you secured your car. Already locked up my car, the course is big. It doesn't set up that great for me.

17's got water right. 18's got water right. I've got to hit driver on both of them. And on Friday afternoon, I'm probably tired. Probably not, maybe even a couple under. I'm not doing that well in the tournament. And all of a sudden, I sail a driver, you know, 20 yards right into the lake.

And then I go to the next hole, and I sail a three wood right into the lake. And I think I sail another 20 yards right into the lake. And then I go to the next hole and I'd sail a three wood right into the lake. And I think I sail another three wood right into the lake. And I guys like, he's like, take your time here. He's like, are you good? He's like, calm down. You know, you just put this one in play, where I think I make like a nine on 18.

And it had to have been the third round, because I'd already made the cut. So anyways, I shoot like 80. And you know, that was a scary time because all of a sudden I've now kind of reintroduced the yips into my game again. Did it was it the Yip or was, I mean, it's the three straight right balls.

They came, but this for me it felt so similar. OK. And there's enough scar tissue there. Yeah, and so I went to the first, you know, the first couple fall events on the PJ tour, obviously I missed the cuts. But I wasn't battling the dips really during that. I'd kind of rallied and was starting to hit it fine again. But it definitely did pop back up and I've had to move

faster again. All right, now we're back in Bermuda. And what is the point? You have great start to the week, but it's a very bunch leader board heading into Sunday. And then are you channeling the some of these things we've talked about here like this final round of key school It you had all that and you are you Black out the last round and have a shower fifty nine in our coasting home

Right you walk off the 16th green and say hi to your wife and kids. It's like you've already got it one Yeah, what like are you what's the what's the emotional reaction to that all like? Are you thinking about where you've been and how you're standing here there or are you very present in the moment? What's that like? I was pretty relaxed there the last day and from you to, and I would say that. That whole just looked like a notion to you.

Well, there's just no doubt that what I learned in the final round of Second Stage of Cuseco in the 61th of the RSM, I found a way to get into this mental state where I can go be aggressive, I can go trust my game, and I can go try and shoot a really low number. And I've been able to tap back into that a handful of times this year, and it's been really special

and something that I'm sure the best players in the world have and could speak to at length. I personally have probably never had that. I've never been a guy who just goes and rattles off nine hundredths all the time. I've shot them a couple times, but I've never felt like I've done it this many times in a year. So I definitely channeled that mental energy the final round of Bermuda because I knew with a guy like Brian Gace sitting there, I think he was 15 under with me. Harry Higgs was already 700 for the tournament, playing great golf. I knew I needed to 1700 for the tournament, playing great golf.

I knew I needed to get to the 2020-200 part to have a chance to win. So, you know, me and Mike Caddy said, let's try and hit our short irons to tap in as many times as we can. And fortunately, I was able to go out there and I hit it close on two. I hit a five iron close on four

and another wedge close on five. And I just, I go off to that flying start. And that's where it's, you know, I know a lot of people have, and we have here, like, have lingered on, you know, the times where things went wrong, but that's what makes that moment what it was, right? I mean, so are you, you won the Byron Nelson in 2014,

but what's the best way you can simulate that feeling, walking off, having won that golf tournament? I mean, you've been said in the interview right after, like, I didn't know if I was going to be playing professional golf in the world. Like, it's one thing to come back and be competitive. Like, you won, and we haven't gotten to Mexico. You will for the next week.

So, like, so, I've been successful at every level of golf. I won some of the biggest junior golf tournaments from the HGGA Rolex tournament champions to big college events, SEC Chamberships here at Sea Island, East Regional, my senior year. I've won twice on the Cornfairy Tour. I'd won on the PGA Tour, I'd won PGA Tour at Q-School. So I'd played well under big pressure moments. Even when I had the Yip, so it was a 75 shooter at home. I still knew I had that in me. It was just a matter of getting

in position. So for me, I'm remuted. I wasn't surprised. I still knew I had that in me. It was just a matter of getting in position. So for me, Amber Muda, I wasn't surprised I won the golf tournament. It was emotional because of where I'd come from and I was proud of the way I'd fought back and I was proud of the way I was able to tap back into that mental state where I played really good in the fun around when I really needed it because I've always prided myself on playing well in and around the lead. And if you look at my career, I have done that because I've always prided myself on playing well in and around the lead. And if you look at my career, I have done that. I just haven't gotten in lead that much. You know, I've never been a fast starter in tournaments. I think I've now only held maybe a couple

54 whole leads and I guess I've converted, I've only held one I think and I've converted it at the buyer. So, you know, it hasn't been something I've been in that position very often. But you win instead of a huge celebration, well, I guess you get a week off on the well I imagine we had a huge celebration of your mood on Sunday night And that was a blast and then right and then right to Georgia guys stuck around with his brother my caddy Couple of their caddies, you know, we went out of a big steak dinner and some wine and you know We lived with up right that night. Did you feel and Curious during that during the darker time,

like were there guys that were reaching out to you guys that were kind of mentoring you in any way, or kind of saying, hey, I've been there, man, what was feedback from other players during that time? 2017, 2018. Yeah. You know, it was pretty quiet. My phone was pretty quiet.

There's no doubt. I've probably leaned the most on the people near where I lived. I live in Watkinsville, Georgia near Athens Chris Kirk lives 10 minutes from me we played a bunch of rounds together at home So I'd pick his brain when I could There's a couple good there were always some good guys who had graduated from Georgia that were playing So we always had money games and I really just used those money games to go out and kind of see where I was at See if what I was working on was good.

The tough thing is sometimes you can play your home course, shoot 64, and you're like, oh, I've got it, but then you go to a tournament, shoot 72, and you're like, okay, I don't have it. So, you know, Coach Ak was very very supportive, my wife, my family were all very supportive, but unfortunately I can't, you know, say there were a lot of you know, other pros that are reaching out saying, hey, how you doing? What can help you with? And I'd say because of that now, the situation I am in now, I live in a college town where the University of Georgia is.

I'm trying to help those guys as much as I can. There's some other young pros in town. I'm trying to help those guys as much as I can. Even out here, I've talked to a handful of players in the last couple weeks. And if they're picking my brain or if I'm picking their brain, I'm just trying to kind of encourage them because I now see that as such a valuable thing that's not done very much in the pro game anymore. I was going to say, like when you were talking about opening up a pizza shop, I'm like,

man, if your golf knowledge was going to waste, like, I remember, I saw you two years ago right around this time in the fall. You were doing like an outing for a mutual friend of ours. And you were getting like chipping lessons. I still refer back to some of the things you said during that chipping lessons. But that's for deep, deep into the future. Because obviously you're going to be out here for quite some time. But going, okay, so going from Bermuda, straight to Mexico.

Right. Are you still obviously feeling incredible about your game? Are you showing up ready to win in Mexico? Are you ready to go back out there and do that again? It's interesting. I took six days off after I won Bermuda. I didn't touch a club. I responded to the 400 texts I had as many as I could.

Hung out with my kids, took them to school, soccer practice, gymnastics, changed diapers. Yeah, I just did the whole dad thing, and you know, was loving it. And I went to Kevin Kysner's charity outing last weekend in Akin, South Carolina, which supports the Akin community really well. And that was a successful event at Sage Valley.

And so that round on Sunday was my first round back after playing from Utah. And it happened to be a scramble from 6,000 yards. So I got to go out there and make about eight or nine birdies, which was good for the confidence. And I show up in Mexico feeling good about my game still, because I knew exactly what feelings worked for me in Ramuda and in Houston and in Columbus

and at the John Deere and all those events I'd played while previously. So the good thing about where I'm at now is I don't feel like I need to go, read tool anything, or go seek a lot of advice. I felt ready to go. And so, okay, so take us there to that final round. Are you thinking, yeah, to be honest with me, are you thinking like, holy crap,

I could do this two weeks in a row. Does that thought of a couple of years? That was probably the biggest mental hurdle during that final round was I felt extra pressure that I was putting on myself to go back to back. Because we know how cool that is. This is not US Open, so this is Masters. And because you got your two-year exemption, you went and winning in the fall was the greatest thing ever because you have to exempt for the rest of that. This year and two years after that, but you didn't get Masters.

It wasn't an opposite field event. It wasn't a full person. It was full FedEx points. Like it was the Mexico win. I'm it wasn't your first win being back, but it was even it was much, much more significant. Yeah. I mean, no offense to any player out here. But winning against the field in Mexico was feeling better and more difficult,

you know, during those last two rounds than winning Bermuda. But it could have just been a case of how I played. Obviously I was eight under through seven under through eight in Bermuda and I wasn't off to a fast start in Mexico in the final round. So I had put a little bit more pressure on me by not getting a big lead. Me and Vaughn and Harris were all making birdies. We're all going back and forth and then we had Adam Long and Carlos Ortiz moving up leaderboard, and I played with Adam the first of the days, he played incredible. So, I knew all those guys were threats.

It's a little bit more difficult, of course, in Mexico too. There's hazards on both sides of every hole, you've got to be very laser focused off the tee, the greens are past palim, so they're always a little bit difficult to put. So here we are, your first FedEx cup. Obviously the new your head turned over. It's unbelievable, but there's potentially some injuries coming down the line to the current the current presidents cup team. You're the hottest golfer probably in the world right now. Have you gotten any phone calls? Do you have any interest? Do you think you'd be a good fit for that team? I have a

ton of interest. I think it'd be a great fit. I've always been a good team player. I was on the morning drive this morning and Damon Hack and those guys were all brave and about it. People are drumming up. They're saying I'd be a great pick. But look, I understand that the presence cup is a one or two year process to qualify for.

The guys who are on that team earned their way on. The guys who are sitting just outside, the number earned their way there. And rightfully so, Tiger can pick whoever he wants to replace, whoever might potentially not be able to go on that trip. But we don't know, maybe all 12 will be able to go. But obviously if I had the opportunity, I would be thrilled, and I think I'd go on there and play great because I feel very good about my game.

So that's a good fit course, too. I'm a royal Melbourne. It could be great for me. I've always played good on firm golf courses in the wind. That's what I was kind of, when I saw that kind of popping up in media, I was like, is this a media created thing, or is this a real thing? And I started thinking more I thought about it.

I was like, man, you might as well. But we'll see what happens with that. I don't know if it's, I was curious if you had gotten any phone calls or... Unfortunately not, but my phone's open on the radar. If you win three, if you win this week, put them on the, you should get a battlefield exemption onto this. The funny thing is, I was talking to Jerry Foltz in Bermuda who works on the golfider. If you win three, if you win this week, put them on the, you should get a battlefield exemption onto this. The funny thing is, I was talking to Jerry Foltz in Bermuda who works

for the golf channel. Before the tournament started, we're on the range, like, man, your games in a great place. He said, you know, go win this week. Heck, go win three in a row. Maybe I'm the president's cup team and you guys actually know you want me to present this cup, even if you win three in a row. Jerry's the best. He is a great guy. All right, so I think goals, questions can be kind of boring, to be honest. But now that you've won twice, what does your, going back thinking about this, some pros I've talked to you have said,

when I used to try to make cuts, I lingered around the cut line. When I used to try to top 10, I lingered around the top 10. And when I started trying to win, I started winning. So does your goals or mindset does it change going forward having this success so far? I'd say yes and no, obviously. The know is that what's gotten me to play so all these last two events is sort of harnessing that, let's go try to birdie every whole mentality, every round.

And that's what I had to do, you know, during some of these low rounds of shot, is basically go feel like I've got a birdie every hole. And that present aggressive mindset is probably the best place to be in golf. And so my goal is to maintain that mindset for as long as I can, because I know how easily it could potentially slip away. And probably the more I focus on it, the better chance I have of actually using it well. When the time gets like really made fun of as a boring thing to say, but it really is

the reality. It is, but I think you can look at more and more of it all mentality in that one shot of the time or one whole of the time. Let's just go play every hole to make birdie and not be cautious and not, because what do we have to lose at this point? I'm 34, I've got a few wins under my belt, I'm ready to just go chase wins basically.

If I can get in contention more often and see how good I can be in contention, that's basically what I've always been playing for. And now I finally, I think, have the game and the opportunity to do it. So that's goal number one. And then, yeah, so the other goal would really just be, continue the success, see if I can't go finish first in the FedEx Cup this year because that's the ultimate prize.

Don't start tinkering now that you got status locked up. No doubt. That's a lot of guys to do. Well, I got to say this was one of my favorites. I'm thrilled that, thank you for making time with us one a day after winning your second Tor event in a row. But when we saw you two years ago, I didn't think I was looking at a guy that was going to win back to back.

I'm sure you felt the same, but I think this story is one of the greatest in golf that since I started covering it. I think it's awesome. I appreciate it. Appreciate your willingness to embrace it, steer ahead on and talk about all these things because I think it really is what makes the story

what it is. I'm a sucker for a good perseverance story so congratulations on all your success best of luck the rest of the year and hope see you on the president's cup team that'd be awesome yes sir thanks you're having me on all right cheers club today. That's better than most. How about in? That is better than most. Better than most.

DEPRING!