No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 263: Harry Higgs

Episode Date: December 1, 2019

Harry Higgs joins us to discuss his rookie year on the PGA Tour, competing for the title in Bermuda, and his fast rise from the PGA Tour LatinoAmerica to the big leagues. He discusses what changed in his game, swing feels, making fake grudges against players to motivate himself, and so much more. Harry is gonna be an extremely popular player on tour.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yeah. That's better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most! Ladies and gentlemen welcome back to the No-Lang at Podcast Do Not. Do not I repeat do not fast forward through this part We got a lot of great deals from a few different partners and us as well to share with you We're actually uploading this episode a day early to make sure you guys hear these offers in advance of Cyber Monday. Great interview following here by Harry Higgs, Rookie on the PGA tour who was, we're getting the great detail. He was playing a lot of TPA

tour Latino America in 2018. Now he's competing out on the highest level professional golf. Great stories, great perspective from him. I hope to do do interviews like this with him throughout the future. He's the part of the greatest Fred X Cup team ever built as well. Before we get going, Callaway Golf, you know about them. They are our premier partner. They are the sponsor of this podcast, callawaygolf.com slash gift guide. It has got all kinds of stuff that's either perfect for your wish list or the golfer on your list. There's special pricing on the Chromesoft and Chromesoft X golf balls. It's 34.99.

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First of all, do you know what the Fred X cup is? I kind of. Okay. Well, I'd like to formally, but I definitely listen. You're on the best team. I know I'm on your team. I definitely listened.

You guys had too much going on in the first part of it, so I had to keep fast forwarding. But then I didn't want to miss my name. So I can't, you know, back and forth, back and forth. Your second round pick. Yeah, I felt a little disrespected, but then again, I don't have any reason to go ahead of the guys that went ahead of the first round.

But the guys that played programs with you and passed on you, like that should have been the disrespectful one. Yeah, I didn't expect you to be on the board coming back around. I had a strategy, I'm not gonna say it out loud because it might affect future drafts, but like you stuck out, like the numbers were sticking out to me.

I'm like, why don't see what everyone's doing? I don't really mess up that bad Sometimes I have bad weeks, but most of the time I feel like my career is just gonna be like Good weeks we have a chance to win and bad ones like you know, but that's the 40th or better. It's okay That's pro golf though. Yeah, like you don't Consistency isn't necessarily rewarded out here. I thought I saw something on Twitter. Maybe a few months ago something like if you got in and I think if you took like six weeks off so whatever that is 30 some 35 events and finish 30th and everyone you would not keep your card.

And don't hold me to that. I don't know that. I'd probably be a little harder than 30th. I think I see what you're getting into though. Like you can make every cut and not keep your card. And don't hold me to that, I don't know. I'd probably be a little higher than 30 if I think. I see what you're getting into though. Like you can make every cut and not keep your card. Yeah, oh gosh. But like a couple top fives is really all you need. Yep. It was something, I don't remember if it was on the podcast or not, Maverick McNeely said, he's like,

I stopped getting upset about bad rounds and bad events. Yeah. It's like golf is about managing your hot streaks. Oh absolutely. Just getting the most out of your hot streaks. So without a doubt. Well, we're going to do a lot of your career, but you've been on the PGA tour here for a few months here.

Has it been about what you expected it to be? What's the first reaction? What have you learned? What's it been like? What's the first few months been like? You already have a solo second place finish. Sure. Part of me thinks, and no disrespect to these tournaments

in the fields and everything. Part of me thinks that I really haven't played a PGA tour event because Tiger hasn't been in one. Like it's just different and where it was, Napa, I played with Adam Scott on Sunday. So that was like the first little intro into, okay, now there's some like serious people around. Right. And no one is cheering for any shot that I hit. And, you know, like Adam just hit it to 25 feet, I hit it to 12 and everybody's like roaring for the 25 and like the 12 footers. Oh, okay, yeah, yeah, sure. This is club pro that made the game.

Yeah, well who's this guy? Like he doesn't look, well I definitely, as you know me versus Adam Scott, we look a lot different. He's a very good looking man, and he's a little bit more fit than I am. But no, it's the first couple of months, it hasn't been a whole lot different. And it's great transition for guys coming up.

Yes, I think it's a positive. I think I got, we played the five in a row and I got a little tired and a little irritable. I think it's a positive that it happens so fast because you just are so conditioned to just show up, do your Monday to Wednesday, and then play Thursday to Sunday. Like it's just, it doesn't matter

that there's bigger stands or more people around for the most part. You just kinda, okay, it's just golf, like same thing, learn the course,, and let's do our best. Now, you get a couple of weeks off, and then you get some of the bigger names and everything, and there's just more people out on a Thursday. That's just more non-golf stuff now that you have to account for.

You walk across the range, and there's somebody from media that wants to chat with you. I just had an atrocious rain session. I didn't feel like talking to anybody, but you know you do it and no offense to them, but I just like, I want to kind of like sit down and just think about what I just did and see if I can make it any better. But that's also the 30th of end of the year. You kind of, you don't know that I'll hit, I might not hit a good shot all week, but to be honest, I haven't really hit that many great shots last two weeks and I had I played fine in Mexico and statistics wise I did some

things great in Bermuda when I finished second but what I normally do well is approach play to the green and give myself a ton of good looks and I didn't have any really good looks. I chipped in a bunch or All right, chipped in once. I had a lot of pitches and chips to tap in and I made a lot of 18 to 25 footers, which I didn't think I could sustain for four days, but I did. I didn't win, but it was a great finish. Like, seriously, I mean, you were there when I did my stats and it's like a lot of red for a approach approach which is not good and green for chipping and putting which is do you have stats for that event like they don't show I put it in okay with my instructor

okay do the little we also share an instructor course you share as well we've been sneaky like the coolest guy 20 for me in the studio together and I call him my instructor But that's about as much time as we spend in the studio, too, over two years, because all of our lessons usually are like this, and we just sit and talk, and then, yeah, let's go hit a few. Yeah, that's really all that we do, is talk. What do you, I mean, is that just led by you?

You don't necessarily want instruction. You just want to chat. Most of it's led by me. I'd love, I don't mind the instruction. Information is good, but we kind of just talk through like I'm very feel oriented and very, almost very aware of like, oh, I knew on this shot, I wasn't, I knew I wasn't going to hit a good shot here. And I, you know, sometimes I feel like I'm just going to hit a slap shot and it's going to be like a six iron instead of

going to go in two or five, it's going to go 190. So if I have two or five and I'm feeling like I'm going to slap it, I'm going to hit five instead of six. Like, and over time, over the last handful of years, basically, I thought that and tried to hit the perfect shot for the first three or so years of my pro career. And then it was like, why? Yeah, it's about the score. It's not. It doesn't have to be the six. Like, yes, there are some weeks where I'm not going to hit it well enough to realistically more than likely have a chance to win. Because it's just some of the, you know, that Chippy-9 iron, you get to that back right flag, I don't feel like I'm going to pull that one off.

So you hammer the wedge and it's 30 feet. Like, somebody's going to pull that Chippy-9 iron shot off. So you're probably not going to make the 30 footer. But no, we talk a lot of stuff about that. A lot of stuff about kind of where my mind is as I'm playing golf. Which can be where is that? It can be all over the place. It can be not on golf. It can be too much on golf.

Well, he told me to ask you about some of this swing fields. And I don't know if that was the specific way he's talking about, but like what you're kind of thinking about when you're dancing over the ball, feeling out shots, is that kind of what maybe he's referring to? Yeah, over just. Yeah, I tend to like slide. Everybody stood over a shot and I'm like, man, I don't feel great about it. You just like, you don't feel like you're going to strike it appropriately. So in your mind, you go up a club and say like, all right, if I can't get over it. Yeah, just like, I'll go to another club or sometimes it's like, well, maybe if it's that six iron from 205, maybe the best way to do it is like kind of punch it up there

and run it up there. So I kind of like get over the ball. And I'm, that's kind of, you know, I do my best behind the ball to visualize what I want to see. And then I try to rehearse it, and then I walk in, and sometimes right there it's like the record stops. Like, nope, none of that is gonna happen. So then I kind of, and I don't really care to back off,

I can figure it out. That's what it's like, you stupid. I might, and when I back off, it gets really weird because then I like see everything. So I'm just standing there, sometimes I'll back off, it gets really weird, because then I see everything. So I'm just standing there, sometimes I'll back off and change clubs if it's that dire. But sometimes I'm not going to hit this six iron clean enough. So then I find myself inshining a little further back

in my stance and just trying to drive it in there instead of trying to be perfect, the high cut, the soft one. But sometimes, and hopefully I can get it before Thursday this week, I haven't had it in a few weeks. Sometimes I get in the ball and then I kind of start shuffling my feet and I kind of feel the motion. I'm always trying to basically fall forward,

kind of get my upper body and lower body more stacked. Like cover the ball, basically. Is this something specific you've worked on like with for ever? For ever, this is something you work on. Yeah, I tend to have my lower body slide out in front and then my upper body will hang back. So my side bend to the right.

And I side bend, I used to side bend way too much. And now it's been a little better and a little better. And literally the only thing we ever really do is we have probably four or five different drills or fields and stuff to try to eliminate that. And sometimes there I've gone, I've gone, I think I went down here a month this year on the corn fairy tour with like when I got into the ball and started shuffling around, it was like I was not going to side bend at all and I was just flushing it. But then the problem then was I was willing to hit any shot. Like the six

iron over water to the back right hole fears. Instead of like just you know hey let's make a score and just hit seven to the middle and put to it. No, no, no. I'm pushing it back there. I'm hitting driver on off. Every one of these teams, and fortunately, during that stretch, I did have good results. But I had a couple finishes. The event right before I won in Springfield in Omaha, I started trying to pull off every shot on the back nine.

And I made a few birdies early, and it was the event if I'd finished, I think if I'd finished, I think I'd finished 20 second. If I made a few birdies early, and it was the event if I'd finished, I think if I'd finished, I think I'd finished 20 second. If I'd finished one shot better, I would have like mathematically locked up my card. And my goal at that time of the year was just to make the cornferrey tour media people tweet out that I have a PJ tour card.

So that's all I wanted to do. Make them tweet it, make them tweet it. And I got, you can't, like it could be your five-day tweet. Yeah, they tweeted in theory, and they were, and I think, oh, you the card if they tweet it. No, no, they definitely don't. But I think they definitely would have had, I think I would have been locked up anyway

with the finish I had in Omaha. And it was sneaky, the best thing for me was having this garbage finish with, I felt like I was invincible. So I called Corey when I was in Springfield and I was like man I feel like I can hit any shot. And then I feel like it's almost a detriment to me that I can't feel this way because then I try to do it and I wind up making just terrible bogies. And he's like, well, let's make it a goal this week to just be as objective on every shot as you can.

Like, do you, okay, I feel good, so yeah, and I've got a good number. All right, I'm going for it. Or, nah, this, not quite the one you should score on, let's play away from this one. And I did that in Springfield and I felt like I was gonna win that golf tournament. You knew that. I called him and I told him,

I think if I do that this week, I think I'll win. Not to sound ridiculously arrogant. But yeah, I told him, I think if I do that, I will win. And sure enough, I wound up winning the golf tournament. Well, that's like, I feel, I don't know where the, the basis of all this is, but I feel like is a movement or trend in golf for course management more conservative,

because you guys, like you said, you feel like you have all the shots. Why wouldn't you aim dead at the flag? Like why wouldn't you? But it's like literally mathematically like a dispersion pattern the way it works and the way some of these pins are, especially I'd be curious to get your pin on that compared

to, you know, PGA tour compared to the corn fairy tour, like your dispersion around the whole, like, short left might be dead. And like, you're gonna hit there, and that's gonna cost you a full shot. Yeah, this week, some of these, like, you are not hitting it anywhere near it. Right. But then you have to, if you aim 25 feet right,

and you, my, one of the college coach, my first year used to call it, Uchig, Uchig over there to the left. Like, you still hit a bad shot, you might get away with it. But like, you still, if you're aiming at 25 feet right, and it has to go 25, you have to pull that thing off. So that was kind of, for me, during that hot stretch,

it was like, okay, well, wherever I was aiming, wherever I was looking, it was going. So let's just be real conscious of where we're looking. But yeah, you, and I, I, I like that Uchi, I like that. of where we're looking. But yeah, you and I I The uchi like that. The uchi. Yeah, Higgs. Any of you. Higgs quit uchi and it over there towards M-flag. And I just they called me high school Harry and I couldn't figure out like what was going

on and I just kind of thought but basically it was because I wasn't really swinging at that well. Like I knew not to hit it over there, but, you know, and then I realized like, I had to be pretty disciplined with where I was looking. Sometimes you're, and then your last look is to the flag and you kind of just react to that. Versus like, oh, that tree that's 15 feet left, stay locked in on that tree.

Do not look at the flag. The flag is irrelevant. You're just, that's point C. You need to take care of A and B first and then you can get over to C. Well there's, you know, if you, let's say you're aiming 15 feet right of a flag, if you hit a perfect shot and hit a 15 feet right of a flag, you can build off that. I just hit a perfect shot. If you pull it a little bit, you're gone. You've been closer to the hole. And I've always always found I've always found that if I'm maybe 15 feet right and I pull it and I let's say I wind up to

six feet. Let's say let's say it didn't go too long and it just was just right More often than not. I'll miss that six footer if I hit it to 15 feet I make it like it is not more often than not right I don't you have less of a chance to make that six footer If you didn't intend for it to go there and then I found that the more I'm aware of kind of those thoughts And if I'm trying to hit it 15 feet right and I pull it off That's how confidence builds because you you start into a plan Yeah, you made a plan and you executed it and the ball is sitting right where you wanted it to be You're not gonna get up there and be irritated that it and the ball is sitting right where you wanted it to be.

You're not gonna get up there and be irritated that it's 15 feet away. You're gonna love it. You're gonna love the challenge of the next one and you're gonna hold the putt. Versus the six footer, you're like, ah, I just pulled it. You know, around the hole sometimes around here,

there's a whole lot of slope. But you shouldn't make the six footer, you should make the 15 footer. It's weird. I was actually going in a different direction with that. I feel like you can gain even some fake confidence by hitting it in real quick. Sure. You just built in this buffer zone for you. Yes.

Whereas the three basic results that would come from that center of the green are 15 feet right, hit a great shot. Perfect. We're going to either make that or miss the putt, probably make it maybe 20% at a time, 15% at a time. If you hit it even close, you might make bird in your bad shot. Way right of that is a 45 footer. You should probably got a two-putt that,

like more than like. So you've all just eliminated, but if you aim with the flag and then pull it and miss it short left or long left, absolutely. You've cost yourself a shot in a lot of situations. Yes. And just the way that adds up and the way that confidence. I don't know. I feel like

Ferd players say the better they're hitting it, the more conservative they end up hitting. Yeah, for sure Yeah, because you know it's gonna go there. So it's stress-free golf is great Bunch of tap-in bars like if you shoot 65 you get the par-fives you have Two wedges that are good numbers that you hit in there close And then you probably either pull a seven iron to eight feet or you make a 30 footer. Yeah. There's no secret as how these things happen.

Guys, you don't shoot 65 by making seven 35 footers. So you don't feel like when you teed up, especially like corn fairy tour or rescores you low. You don't feel like I got to put gas to pedal to the metal right away. Some mean, when you tee off Thursday afternoon, you're already nine back. Yeah, that's kind of in your mind.

But yeah, I just kind of always thought like, if I start getting good numbers and I feel good, then we'll go. And then you can build momentum where it's, you know, you hate when you have, like you're playing 12, 13, 14, and 15, and you make a eight footer on 12 for birdie, and then you give yourself a good look on 13 and miss, and then you get irritated on 14 because of that, because you haven't made enough,

and you hit it in the rough, and then you don't have a chance to make birdie, and then let's say 15's a par five, and now you're super irritated, and you take a, maybe it's a three-shot hole, and you take driver instead now you're in a spot a bother and you might make six. So you turned in a chance to maybe go two, three, four hundred and four holes to even one over, you know, I never I never really yeah it's hard to not because it's this guy's just shoot zero but you I mean you can't really force it you got to to, that's the thing. When you get it, you get it. You get it, you get it, you get it. No, no, because I had a run in Latin America last year

where I finished, the last five events I finished, 10th or better. I finished 10th, 10th, win, 3rd, 2nd, 4th. So a 10th and four top fours. In those five events, I had one round that was seven under or better. So that's the only reason why I had those finishes. Now granted, I was building towards that

all year long basically. I felt like it was coming, I was getting more and more comfortable with kind of how I manage everything and how I do everything, that these days are gonna come. And all of those days, you don't wake up and think that. And one of the days I bogey the first hole. Like it's just, all right, that kind of sucks, but it's not over. I mean, I got 17 more of these holes.

And for the most part, if you do things the right way and you take care of your business, you should have, I'm always looking to have eight to twelve birdie opportunities a day. So something kind of inside 25 feet or so. And you really get, I mean over at seaside, there's only two par-fives, but you really get about four decent looks a day with par-fives. And heck, some of the short par-fours, you're going to really have a decent look there if you can just get it in the fairway

and then get it up around the green somewhere around the hole. Like, it doesn't have to be, you don't have to have a bunch of tap-ins. We're coming off a couple of tournaments where there were birdies you were at a, you know, quite frequently had. This tournament is pretty much kind of somewhat similar, but have you seen, you know, this fall stretches in the most gruesome from a golf course perspective, but is there any adjustment you've had to make on mindset, on scoring from Cornferrey toward

a PGA tour so far? No, I think they've been, the courses would relate very similarly. Yeah, Houston was a big, big ballpark, so you, you wind up not having as many wedges, but it wasn't overly firm. It got a little windy, it got actually ridiculously windy. I think it was Saturday when I was finishing up my second round, and even Friday afternoon. But every other course has been kind of benign, and they've all been fantastic, but kind of benign where you, if you just think your way through everything and kind of spot a

year in there and there's nothing. But you just do you and it'll hold some putts and you shoot good scores. We're I mean coming off from you, you finished solo second in Bermuda. You two years prior to that, you're playing Latino America Tour. Could you picture yourself? I mean, was there any kind of like holy shit moment? I might be exempt for years. Oh, yeah.

I mean, you start thinking about that the whole time. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, to think I thought definitely thought. I mean, I'm not good at blocking that stuff out. I think it's full zaryn to try to block all that stuff out. But I definitely had a thought like, literally, I think it was the week before was a year before, so the week before Bermuda was a year to the date when I won for the first time in Peru on the PGA Tour Latin America. And to think that almost like 12, 13 months later, I could win my first PGA Tour event,

it's just mind blowing. I remember it was a year, I've been doing this now because it's kind of funny and it's kind of fun when we played the green bire and then flew a charter plane from the green bire to Jackson, Mississippi because both of those locations would be very difficult to travel to and from. A year ago to the day from that charter flight I flew from Dallas, DFW, to Toronto, to get to Sao Paulo, Brazil to save $1,000. Oh my God.

Flash forward 365 days, and I'm on a charter getting served from milk and cookies going from my first PJ tour event to my second one. Milk and cookies. Yeah, amazingly they had milk and cookies on the point. That's what you asked for. That's no.

They were literally walking around with a tray. The cookies came first, and you could smell them because they heat them up. It's like, okay, there's some cookies coming. This is going to be great. And the next dude is carrying milk for the cookies. It was incredible. So yeah, I mean, I am constantly having pinch yourself moments. And there's a little different up here.

Yeah, oh gosh, yeah. I mean, the BMW X5 this week, Gray and I have been rolling around C Island and St. Simon's just, I mean, you gosh, yeah, I mean the BMW X5 this week Gray and I've been rolling around C Island in St. Simon's just I mean you just yeah, it's so cool It's absolutely and it's so smart by BMW because I'm not a huge car guy and I'm not in the market for a car But if I keep having some good results and there's some money burning a hole in my pocket I'm going to buy a BMW X5 like I don't know why I mean You should have said that man. We got contacts there Well, I know that played in the Vars. I played with I played with a BMW executive in the in the program at and Greenville Real house. No Max Metcalf. Okay, Max. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, who was awesome? Yeah, had a ton of fun

But yeah, it's unbelievable. I flew privately from Mexico to here. Like it's ridiculous. I didn't have to pay anything. The tournament needed a few of us to come up and play on Monday. Now, granted, I had to play 54 holes in like 30 hours. That was a little aggressive. I was watching that close-leads.

Like, he might be pushing the podcast back. Well, but then yesterday was so nice. We got reinvigorated. I had a great ProM group. And they were actually sponsors of Brennan Todd. So they're just giving me crap all the time. That their guy beat me. We had a ton of fun.

They're just drinking beer the whole day. And it was perfect out. So all the things you're trying to block out down the stretch of Bermuda, what are they in particular? I mean, PJ Tour winner comes with, you know, that title is incredible, but is it money? Is it exemption? Is it the tournaments you would be in this coming year?

Like what are you less excited about? Less, not necessary. It wouldn't be money. Okay. It would be the three year exemption. Well, basically three years. Yes, it would be three years. It would be better tea times.

Yeah. I wouldn't be last off every single time. It's it would be the exemption and the access to it would have I think it would have been the players and the PGA and then the event Maui. Yeah. I would have I'm my galorism rookie out here. Next two months, right? Yeah. I mean, he's he's getting married that week and we were kind of joking with him or me. Like, hey man, I can't be there if I win. And you can't be there if you win either.

But yeah, no, I mean, I was battling that more Saturday. And it's weird because it's so much different now where you have a good round. And I'm in the lead now. I have a two shot lead and your phone just blows up and I had a lead in Latin America and like my mom and dad and a few friends and just like, hey man good luck. You shoot seven under in Latin America and like four people text you. You shoot four under on the PGA tour and you've got like 60 to 80 text messages. Like it's just, it's, it's, but I don't mind, I don't mind, I like, I appreciate these

people care and they're supportive and they reach out and I'll always get back to them. But you just like, it was just a lot of, it was weird. But then basically what? Four or five. Seven holes in it was over on Sunday. Yeah. So then it turns to like, okay, I'm half rooting for this guy because I think he's about to shoot like 54.

And you're knowing a little bit about a story and then having played with him. Like you can't not fruit-roof for the guy. Like it was awesome. It was unbelievable to witness. But then it was like, okay, we gotta refocus here because a second is better than a third. A solo second is way better than a three-way tie.

We're in the same spot here, man. Not worth Fred X Cup here. I'm like, so we got a big jump. Big jump. That shot like hit him 17. It was so funny too. I didn't really think of you guys, but I got up to my ball and there was a bunch of people up on the right.

As soon as I hit it, you just have to yell for it because I bailed it instead of the water left. And you're kind of hoping that it nicks somebody, don't hit them hard because there's a cart path, I have his cart path that's out. Done. And I get up there and no one's hurt, so okay, that's huge. And I'm kind of like walking to my ball and there's just a bunch of people in my way.

So I kind of look, I'm like, okay, it looks like I got a decent lie, looking over to people's shoulders, like I don't really have any way to get around these people. And then the guys are kind of talking, what do you think he's gonna do from there? What do you think he's gonna do from there? And I'm like, well, I'm probably gonna go for it.

Looks like I can just cut it around those trees and then we'll be back. Yeah, there's just a few guys. And they look back and they're like, oh, we can get out of the way, get out of the way. And I was like, it's not a big deal. You said to the guy, there's a guy in your sight line. Yeah, there was a camera guy, right?

And I wanted to not say anything because the photo would be so much cooler. It would have been so cool. And I had to not say anything because the photo would be so much cooler. It would have been so cool and I had to like scoot him around. He was pretty much dead in line with the flag. My ball was gonna start way left of that and start coming around sideways. So I wasn't really gonna hit him, but I didn't hit the best drive in the world to get to where I was. And there's a lot of nerves and there's some rough and it's a hanging line. Like, I don't know where I'm gonna hit this. I'm gonna try to do this, but I don't to where I was. And there's a lot of nerves, and there's some rough, and it's a hanging line. Like, I don't know where I'm gonna hit this.

I'm gonna try to do this, but I don't know where I'm gonna hit. It was like the St. Augustine Roof, too. I mean, I had my club face like 70 degrees open. And honestly, I was trying to just catch a flyer and hit it long and left and chip down in the front right flag. And it came out like kind of flyery, but kind of soft and right and

then it landed just short and got like a little kick to the left and it was just past whole high. And then I remember standing over the putt thinking like, if I two putt this, I'm solo second. Okay, that's fine. 18's kind of hard but solo second, you know, I could just make par on the last and I was like, well wait a second. I could just make this putt and could just make par on the last and I was like, well, wait a second. I could just make this pot and make bogey on the last and finish solo second. And I'm literally kind of like, I didn't, I wouldn't say all those thoughts were in my head, but it was definitely

like two putt here, okay, and I don't know, no, no, let's make this. And I just, even though it was accidentally close to the hole, you were able to make it. Yeah. Yeah, well, that was an accidental one, which I probably, I definitely didn't deserve, but I had a an accidental one, which I probably, I definitely didn't deserve, but I had a really good thought right before I hit it, so I gave myself a better chance of earning that putt, a really good like, oh, no, no, I make this, yeah,

that would be a nice three. Yeah, and then I got up to 18, and it was, it's not really a driver, and I was like, well, I got myself enough cushion now, I'm hitting a driver. It just smoked one up there. It amazes me. For us, people that watch golf on TV, and knowing,

you get to the 18th hole, sometimes the commentators will say something like, this putt is the difference in 200,000. It's like 100,000. Anytime you ask players off and on the record, they're adamant. It's really not about the money. It's really not. It's really not. For somebody like you yourself, you haven't not about the money. Like, it's really not. It's really not.

Is that, like, for somebody like yourself, you haven't earned a ton of money yet playing VGA Tour of Off. That you were pretty fast and it felt like a very genuine answer when you're saying, like, no, it's not money that's driving you down the stretch. Yeah, it's not, but you always know. Yeah, like, you know, I mean, we all know.

And if you want, you can easily look. Like, you sign your scorecard and they have a sheet Exactly how much money you're gonna make yeah with a five-way tie a six-way tie seven-way tie up to like You know you knew exactly what the second the second place person don't ever Pick that sheet up, but when I sit down I glance and I look like okay I think I was I was in about 18th. And then I don't look at the, like it's like a Excel sheet, basically. I do not look, I look at what 18th alone would be. I just scroll right down, okay, that'd be about, you know,

whatever it is, 100 grand, all right, and so, and then I go back and I think like, oh, there's probably a five, six-way tie, so I probably made about 90 grand. And then it's like, wow. That's almost as much as I made for winning the PGA Tour Latin America money list. So, I'm saying.

I mean, yeah, you, we, it's not the driving factor when you have a chance to win. And then it's technically not the driving factor any other time because that's not what we get rewarded for anymore. It's FedExCut points. But they're, you they're the same thing. Like, I guess not technically because some person is a bit different.

But you're thinking points and money, if you're not, if you do not have a chance to win. Right. Like I wanted to finish solo second because I get way more points and way more money. And people don't pay, I feel like people don't pay enough attention to that. Myself included, only when it's Fred X-Cut points on the line, am feel like people don't pay enough attention to them. I self included it. Only when it's Fred X points on the line. And I'm like, come on man, let's go. Oh yeah, I don't remember the criteria of what events do and don't have.

All of it's all that some PGA tour counts. You're thinking of the Folak series. That is. That's the world tour that we kind of lost track. The Fred X is a lot, well it was competitive until you represented this quad, and gave us this big lead. But how much did you win for second? $327,000. $327,000. You knew that I was up here.

And zero, zero, zero. Anything that you're like, okay, well now I'm doing this. Now I'm doing this, now nothing. I'm not a big like, I now have to pay, I live in a condo in Dallas that my dad owns, I now have to pay him rent, but he takes that right out of my account, so I don't really have to write that check.

I bought a bed because I needed a bed, I had, yeah, I mean a bed and bottles of tea does, like, what else? We did, for the Higgs, our Christmas, we're big Philadelphia Eagles fans and big Villanova basketball fans. And on Saturday the 21st of December, Villanova plays KU. The next day, Sunday, the Eagles play the Cowboys.

So my dad and I split six tickets for each. So that's the only thing. I'm in and I split six tickets for each. So that's the only thing. I didn't buy a car, I didn't buy a house, I didn't buy. At some point, I'm probably going to be talked into by my girlfriend, slash mom, slash dad, to upgrade the couch in the condo. But other than that, is it seen some things? No, but it's just entirely too big for the room. It's a tiny little room, but I have like this kind of L sectional, and there is one way in and one way out. It's about two feet wide.

Yeah. But I love it because it's got recliners, and it's just, but at some point I probably just need basic couch, a couch, maybe a chair, and an ottoman, and that's it. The reason I asked that is, I'm not looking for the frivolous purchases, but I remember Eddie Pepperon here once said, like, yeah, if I play well in Dubai, I get to redo the kitchen.

And there's always plenty like, people, I think it would make people care about this stuff more of you, like knew how it affects your life, right? Absolutely. When Rory went to my life, it doesn't, yeah, I mean, that means nothing to me because it's cool to,

it's cool to, when it comes through on it's usually Wednesday It they just direct a positive I 100% log into my account and look and I vividly remember Not ever wanting to look at that account because it was almost always near zero and now it's Not right anywhere near zero and it's it is really cool to think anywhere near zero. And it's it is really cool to think two years ago I was still basically begging people for money. I when I started the year in PGA Tour Latin America last year I did not have enough money for both halves. I could

have probably afforded to play just the first half and I didn't have anybody else. I had two people chip in. I didn't, and I kept striking out with folks to help out, and they always say they want to, and then they never cut checks. I was fortunate to get a few more people to support in the middle of the summer, and then also have a second and a third to have enough money to be comfortable to play

the second half of the year. Like, I've seen what my account balance balance before was it's just a Toronto. It's just near zero. I mean you fly to Toronto to get to Brazil from Dallas to save a thousand dollars. And then you miss both cuts and you just say like screw it. I'm leaving and I'm flying straight into Dallas. But you I mean four times last year I did did, I'm sorry, American Airlines, but I did the skip lagged, where you like say I'm flying from Argentina to Denver, but it stops in DFW. Well, I have to get my bags for customs anyway, so I'm going to get my bags and I'm going to leave.

And the flights were like $1,000 cheaper. And they never, I think if I had done it maybe like one more time, they start whacking the miles off, like you didn't really fly the leg like But yeah, I mean you got to get creative. I've seen what my account has been and it's not that anymore Do you play differently when that's the case? Not really no, no, it doesn't really yeah, that doesn't really affect me I like playing good golf and I like hitting good golf shots for doesn't if I have zero It's you still want to do well how's the

sponsorship thing work there I mean are these individual people that you know I always went through and you pitch like are you they are you offering like shares of your earnings yeah has that work business plan the whole thing just in case anybody wanted you know to make it really official I had I always tried to get 12 12 people slash 12 grew in a like divided up 12 ways and I always tried to get 12 people slash 12 in a, like divided up 12 ways and I always tried to raise 75 grand for a year's worth of golf. That's your year's expense. Which is way too much.

But I'm also fortunate that in Dallas for the first three or four years of my professional career, like I had a place to live because my dad owned a condo, he would buy my gas, my food, my groceries, and Dallas. So I didn't have to put, you know, guys have to raise more than that because they have living expenses at home as well. And I had people help me. I mean, Corey, all of last year, didn't ask me for anything, which was nice. And now he's asking for some, and he's earned it, and I will happily write that check to

him. The guys we work with, I work with William Brandham at the Move Project in Dallas. We've worked with them all throughout school and he always comped everything that I did from my treatments to my workouts to everything and I will happily be writing him a check to. You know, that's kind of, I think,

almost the coolest part about all this is that now I can, and it's not even really giving back, but I can like square off my debts in a way. I'm not waiting for your show. But yeah, it's like, OK, you know what? You've been a huge help. Like, you are every much a part of this as I was. I get to do the fun part.

You have to deal with me at home when I'm trying to get better and all this stuff. And now I get, not that they don't need it, they're both, you know, everybody's very successful, but I can now do my part. Like, okay, now I can give you the money back. Like, thank you for all you've done. You know, maybe even a little Christmas bonuses,

you know, on my even a little Christmas bonuses. I'm a placenta clause this year. And that, to me, is that's, I like to play well for stuff like that. That makes a lot of sense. And some of the guys that signed on last year, they're members that turned 24, signed on in terms of like paying, giving me a check. And they said, and I was fortunate, I never had anybody

that actually did it for an investment. They never wanted their money back. They just wanted me to go do me and I had a couple guys tell me all all we want is we want you to be successful and we want you to pay it forward when you get the opportunity to. That's cool. And I will absolutely do that. My brother used to play and he's working now and I guess he's I don't know what the heck he's doing, but he just he just texted me so he applied to get a job at ESPN So I don't know but if he decides to want to play golf again I would be one of the first ones to hey man

I will happily cover this expense or you know like I know how hard it is And I know how many guys out there have to stop playing because they run out of money and So many of those guys could absolutely win this golf tournament this week You really that that absolutely it might take them four or five events to get used to all this stuff Absolutely, I played with guys on mini tours that are PGA tour stars they just can't get there. They can't get past where they are separate yourself Yeah, it is yeah because you have to shoot six under every day stars, they just can't get there. They can't get past where they are. They separate yourself from that. It is. Yeah. Because you have to shoot six under every day.

You can play with a guy that shoots three under every day and he finishes 25th and he was so impressive. He might not have had great bounces, you know, little bits of breaks. And he might have made a few aggressive decisions that didn't go his way. So he has to learn from those. But you can play with a guy that is so impressive that finishes 25th. And the guy that wins, if you play with him, he might not have been as impressive. And you might not think he is a PGA tour player.

And most guys are, and I don't pretend to know the difference between. But you start playing at all of these levels that I've played through, not everybody has out here. You can kind of get a decent idea of what's what and who's who. Is there any names that stick out to you as like, I can't believe, like I hit it so good, I can't believe he hasn't found more success.

Might not be people we've even heard of, I guess at this point. Yeah, I think a guy that will be on the PGA tour in, well, this time next year is Austin Smytherman, and he's a former team in a mine, and he's a member at Trinity Forest, much like me. So it's hard for me to remove my bias. But I think if you had asked anybody which one,

you or me or him, we'd both graduated from the PGA tour Latin America together the same year. Who would have their PGA tour card? I think if you pulled 10 of the people that know us, they they would say I think eight or nine of them would have said him. So what's the difference for you? I mean you were in your PGA tour Latino America two years ago when like at least from my feedback from Corey is that's around the start the time you started working with Altus. Yes. So what is what changed? I mean what I told were you playing you know what was your professional

golf experience up to that point? I played the how old were you playing, you know, what was your professional golf experience up to that point? It was, I played the PGA Tour Latin American 2015, as well, and finished like 90th on the money list. And then I made it through to Final Stage of Cue School that year, and I finished 93rd, something there, so you got absolutely nothing. So in 2016, I played some in PGA

Tour Latin America because of my at the time web.com tour status and then I played some in Canada. I chased Mondays and then I went to Q school and I wasn't really ready because I hadn't really played a four-day golf tournament and I just wasn't really that good at the time and I missed. And then two thousand, it would have been 2017, right? Yeah, 2017, I had nothing. So then you're playing, I played a bunch of Adam's Tour events, Monday, Qualifiers, Monday, and I think I, sneaky like almost always Monday, into Wichita.

I think I Monday, into Wichita that year, maybe one other. And then I started like, okay, I started being the guy that was shooting under par almost every round, finishing 15th to 20th, not quite having that seven under round in your tournament. And I kind of started to feel like, okay, this, all right. Now I'm getting a good handle on kind of started to feel like, okay, this, all right.

Now I'm getting a good handle on kind of me and my stuff, and I kind of can figure out how to shoot scores when things aren't great, and when things are great, I now know how to maybe get a turn 68 into 65, and I go to first stage of Q school, and I played well in Utah, played well all three days, and I was right on the number. And before, all the whole night before I'm thinking like,

okay, if I fail again here tomorrow, I have no status again, I don't really, I mean, I'm out of money, I mean, you probably should think about getting a job. And I went out and shot 63. Jesus. And cruise through. Like, it was the easiest 63 of my life. And that's ridiculous, because 63's are never easy. I didn't do anything wrong. I mean, I got a couple bonus puts to go in, but it was just on autopilot all day. And then I missed it second stage by like eight.

But that day, what I did in response to those thoughts, I was like, okay, and I went and started working with Cory around that time, and I went to him. I had to go to PGA Tour Latin America, Q school last year. Like I didn't have any sense there. Last year, last year. So 20 school, won the money list,

corn fairy tour now here. Yeah, so like what? I guess that'd be like 20 some odd months ago, 20 years ago. Well, it's gonna say like we can say in two years ago, but really like this, we're talking like. Last year, like 28 years. Yeah. And off the backs of what I did in Utah, I went to Cori

and I was like, dude, I do not have status on the PGA Tour Latin America. That's the route I'm going to go now. I've got a little bit of reinvigorated. I got a little bit of juice now after the response that I had to thoughts of getting a job. And he was like, okay, yeah, let's just work our way through some things. We have eight commandments. We basically just sat down and talked.

When I perform my best, what goes on? What are my thoughts? They're basically all thoughts. I wrote down the commandments on a sheet and it's in my yardage book. I should have brought it in. One of them is when I'm around the cutliner, around the lead, things are heightened. And I feel like I have more focus. Like even if you're too off the cut line, you're like, okay, I'm gonna bury the last, and you've got four holes left,

and I'm gonna bury two less four, and I'm gonna play the weekend. You're around the lead and you're like, all right, I'm gonna hit the shots necessary and I'm gonna win the golf tournament. Why don't you just do that as much as you can on Thursday? It's hard to do it on Thursday because you can't fake that. All of us, me, I'm still trying to get in the rhythm

and all right, let's see what am I battling this week. What am I, but when I have something to worry about is when I'm really good. Okay, I'm avoiding the right miss all week. How am I going to do that? Is it different club selection? Is it a different shot shape? Like that triggers my mind and I really,

I love that. I love that part of everything. So we went, went through, put our commandments down, started making improvements in my less slide and slap, started hitting the golf ball a little bit more solid, a little bit more often, and I went and finished second at Q school, and then I went to Guatemala, which I hate and made the cut so that was awesome and then I was I remember walking down finished on nine in Guatemala I remember walking down and writing down on that week what I wanted to do different and better for the next week just as I'm walking okay I want to do this I want to show this up I want to show this up went to T to show this up, I want to Tijuana and finish third, Austin won there.

And then basically it was just that. I stuck to my commandments, right after I finished, I wrote down what I wanted to do, carrying into next week, and that's that. Just do that and you'll be fine. If you get a few days to add up to 5, 6, 7 under, you're going to have a chance to win. And if you don't do your best, do not, like I remember Team Wana, I really wanted to win. Obviously, it's my first kind of like a real chance

at a professional win. And I remember getting on the back nine and every single shot on the my back nine was in between clubs, every single one. So I just hit the safe one and I made a bunch of powers and I finished third. Whereas a year before that I probably would have tried to force every single one of them and I would have turned a third place finish into a thirty third. So and I figured I'm going to stretch this thing out over this whole year and I'm going to get these guys at the end of the

year and at the end of the year what happens Seriously for five weeks in a row Every yardage I had was absolutely perfect and I felt like I was gonna win every golf tournament It was oh, this is just this the chippy nine iron to the back right flag. Yep perfect perfect number one thirty eight Yep, I'm gonna hit it one thirty four. It's gonna bounce right back to it. So it's all it's just straight mental and approach It's like the difference maker. So yeah, how thin is the line we're talking about? Like the actual golf that you're playing, then like before you're making those adjustments to now.

I mean, is it like, I think it's really thin. Really thin. I do not think, but I think it was, I wasn't listening to myself before. I was, man, you know, you, let's say you've got 142 and long as dead. And when you're really feeling good and you can kind of like chip a nine iron, land it about 138 and get it back in there, okay. I feel like I'm going to do that.

Let's do that. When I don't and I get over the ball with a nine iron and I know I'm not going to do that, I back off and I hit my wedge and I just be easy about it, it's fine. I'm just going to hit it short and I'm going to put to it. Whereas I kept getting over shots, knowing and it wasn't necessarily a negative, the negative part was I didn't readjust, like I just would hit it. I knew I wasn't going to pull the shot, or not really pull the shot off, but I knew it wasn't the right shot. So in my mind, I know these things, okay, so my mind at least is working well, listen to it. Like, don't hit it.

Trust yourself. Yeah, don't hit the nine iron, hit the wedge. Don't do it. And sure enough, then you know, you hit a wedge to 25 feet and you walk up there And you're pretty calm and you're pretty easy and you get a good read and you've got good speed on the greens and you make it like it's It is not it's not about the flash especially even for me like now sometimes You know obstacles in the way this shot at Bermuda like Kind of felt like I was gonna pull that one off? There's stuff all over the place. You can really focus in on that, but when it's Thursday and it's this fifth hole and you're

one over through four, but you're hitting every shot how you want, and you have this back right flag that longs dead and you do not feel like nine iron and you try to force the nine iron and you hit it long and make bogie, you're going to miss the cut. When you hit a short with a wedge and even if you two putt, you've got a great chance. You've got a great chance to have a good week. One thing that somewhat similar that Paul Easinger said, I think it was on this pocket. I couldn't remember if it was not. I asked him, I was like, do you have, like in your prime, did you have a hundred and fifty

two yard shot and a 150 four yard shot? And he looked at me like I had three heads. Yeah, of course, you better have that. He looked at me like, I think I lost all credibility in his eyes, but to me, that's like a insane precision. Some weeks? No, I don't have a hundred, I don't have anything in the 150s.

Some weeks, nope, not even close. Other weeks, I can't have 100, I don't have anything in the 150s. Yeah, so I'm going to wait, nope, not even close. Other weeks, I can feel almost exactly how fast I need to move my body to hit it 130, 132, like right before when I'm behind it, I can feel and I just step in there and it's like I can feel the length, I can feel the speed, I can feel the strike and I know, I mean sometimes you hit it and you know exactly, yep, 138, perfect. See, my, clearly I don't play golf at the professional level, but I feel like I've just accepted.

Some days the ball goes pin high and some days it doesn't. That's, maybe I'm better at controlling it, or worse, I guess I should say, maybe I'm better at controlling distance when I'm hitting it well, than I think I am. Some days you just hit a good shot and it's like, well, shit, that was 10 years short. And some days, it's like, whoa, that got pin high.

I don't know, I have a question followed really to that. But I just, this is control seems to be something that, it's huge. We always are, yeah, your evaluate, shots get evaluated. It's like, did I hit it straight? Was that a good shot? But in reality, like distance controls. Straight really, doesn't it?

Yeah. Straight for doesn't. Yeah. Straight for the most part. It's only really off the tee. But after that, you can curve it anyway. I mean, you can curve it off the tee too sometimes not. But no, my nickname growing up, and it was kind of me. And he'll agree with that for this, was Ho-Hi Harry. Ho-ho.

So I hit it Ho-Hi, a lot. Ho-Hi Harry. Yes. Then shortened to Triple H. That's a great idea. I hit it whole high, a lot. Whole high, Harry. Yes. Then shortened to triple-age. Triple-age. To triple-age. Triple-age.

But no, see, I think you'd be better, I think you would be a lot better than you thought. And even if you went through rounds, like you were probably trying to execute a shot that was, your whole high was going to be 10 yards short. Yeah, I think so. Like, to get it whole high, to force it up there, it was one more, and it was less, and I think an amateur player, an amateur, a handicap golfer, someone with a, I need a little bit of athleticism, is all, and you clearly would have that. But I think people underestimate how good they could be. Like even if it is an hour on the driving range

and you get your range found out and the flag is 100 yards. Just start hitting shots. Okay, that's how hard, you know, the length of swing, that's how hard I need to hit a 100 yarder. Okay, I hit it five yards further. All right, I just need to maybe add length of the swing or add a little bit of speed or more hit, you know, whatever it is.

All right, I went 105 and I hit it five yards shorter. I think if you got a little bit of athleticism and you can hit it relatively in the middle of the face, I think people would underestimate how good they could be at that. That's the thing, I never practiced that. Yeah. And then I get up there like a 72 yard shot

and I don't hit a pin high. I'm like, how did the, like, sure, you look back, why would it go 72 yards? Yeah, I should, 72 yard shot and I don't hit a pin high I'm like how did the like you look back? Why would it go 72 yards? Yeah, I think you didn't get a chance No, I don't know how to do you try to hit you know, it's like the college golf thing like you know 150 yards eight iron 150 yards You know into 20 mile an hour went eight iron 150 yards into you know a 40 mile an hour at really hard eight No, dude like at some point, you're gonna need the little Chippy five. It's not always gonna fit,

it's not always gonna fit into the green. You know, if it's too flat and it bounces over, that's a bad thing. That's probably something I would think you guys get out of Trinity Forest. It's, like you, Ling Skolf helps me, like if it's 130 yards, that doesn't mean grab pitching wedge, it means you gotta hit it at 130 yards.

It might be seven iron, it might be sand wedge. And it plays, and I have a lot of a few people that, you know, oh, you play a turn of the force, and they ask me why, as if it's, and the tournament has not been as firm and as fast and as windy as people would like. So it's played relatively easy, but I think it is one of the best places in the world to prepare myself for PGA to orgoth, any to orgoth, because when the ball is hit and it

lands it's not done. You have to think a step ahead every time. And then the greens are, for me, still are insanely hard to put. There's a grain and slope, and they don't always match up. And you're constantly second-guessing yourself. If you second-guess yourself, you're going to hit a bad shot. So I've caught myself, and I've started putting, I've become a great putter.

I always thought I was, but I probably really wasn't. But half of it is thinking you're good at it anyway. I've caught myself, I'm not second-guessing these anymore. I know this straightens up at the hole, so I'm taking less break out. Like, I'm hitting it a little harder, I'm taking some break out. And then, you know, some of the corn fairy tour events last year were, you have 120 yards, you're just trying to fly it in the hole. Like, there's no bounce up there. I do not think the best thing for trying to fly it

in the hole at 120 is practicing on soft 120. I think it's, oh, I have 145 to this back flag, downwind. I need to land it 120. I think it's better to practice when the ball, when it lands, it's not done. And then I think, and I grew up on a link style golf course in Overland Park, Kansas. It wasn't, I mean, it's not really lace.

It would have licks golf at kids. But it's open and it's windy. And I constantly saw my drives go in the fairway. From when I was 10 years old till now, I constantly hit it in the fairway because it's relatively easy to hit it in the fairway from when I was 10 years old till now. I constantly hit it in the fairway because it's relatively easy to hit it in the fairway. And at turn of the forest, it's relatively easy to hit it in the fairway. So I constantly see my ball on the fairway. So I get on in Mexico last week, it's a little different.

Held as hell. Windy, really narrow fairways. And I didn't drive the ball great last week. So this is not a great example. But I just think I'm going to hit it in the fairways. And I didn't drive the ball great last week. So this is not a great example. But I just think I'm gonna hit it in the fairway. Cause I've constantly seen my ball go in the fairway. I always am the other side of things. Like when people say, oh, it's a really easy driving golf course. Well, there's a, you can take some confidence from that. At least like, think of it's a really easy golf course, driving course, and you're missing the fairway.

Like you're double hammering yourself down. Like, you hit every fairway today. That's hard to do. I do not care if every fairway is 60 yards wide. And whether or not, you know, when you're playing Trinity Forest, the exercise you're going through isn't like necessarily trying to hit every fairway. You can take confidence in that. But like, if the Greens are as firm as what you're referencing, you were trying to hit the left side of the fairway. You can take confidence in that, but like, if the Greens are as firm as what you're referencing, you're trying to hit the left side of the fairway. You're hitting sides of fairways.

Exactly. So then you've got a big area, but you know, and you play with a few of our friends, they're all catching on now. They play enough golf with us. They realize, and they're all smart and good players. They all realize that all the pros are going left on this one. We need to go left, you know, or you hit, and they say, good players, they all realize that all the pros are going left on this one. We need to go left, you know, or you hit and they say good shot and it's in the right side

of the fairway and you're like walking up there like no, it's not good because I don't really have a chance for me. It's not good at all. But thank you. It's in the fairway, yes, but it's not good at all. I really hope Trinity gets a good weather year this year. I think criticism is really not found. I mean, it's founded, like it hasn't been great viewing the last couple years.

And it's just not, that's how it was designed to be played. No, it's so cool to see it in different flows. In May, in Texas. Yes, it's just, if we can avoid some rain, and we may get a little bit more wind, that would be phenomenal. And it's just nice. I've watched it on TV the last few years,

and I'm very fortunate that I'll get to play it. I mean, it's cool to see it different. It just looks it on TV the last few years and I'm very fortunate that I'll get to play it. I mean, it's cool to see it different. It just looks different on TV. Yeah. It's not every, it's not the same golf course over and over. You are preaching to the choir right here. I feel like we are leaving some Latino America stories on the table here. Yeah.

So, so, I've got your boy in here too, to like make sure we get all of... I'm not great at remembering all the stories. It's my least favorite question to ask. I know you told me your best story. It's so hard at remembering all the stories. My least favorite question to ask is, I hate to them your best story. It's so hard to draw the best one. But I mean, kind of you just said, Guatemala, which you hate. Oh, yeah, you hate to go out of the golf course?

Yes, the first hole. And actually, I never hated it, but it was a volcano. And the volcano erupted. It was, that was the place that erupted. I mean, it was like, it was last year, 2018. It was like six weeks after we left. And it's gone. Like, of course, it's just gone now.

Oh my God. And I think there's some loss of life. So I'm, I said that to all that. And I'm not, I didn't hate it for that reason. But I hated it because the first hole is the most narrow t-shot up this volcano the whole way and it's up into the right from the 150 yard plate it plays up 40 40 40 yards just straight up and the green 150 plate you're playing at 190 yes holy shit

green is dead flat up there so you just bounce it over every the first part it's a huge upslope a huge false front dead flat So you just bounce it over every, the first part is a huge upslope, a huge false front, dead flat. So you just bounce it over the green anyway. But that's if you can get in the fairway, if you tug it at all or hit the wrong club that day at all, some years they had sandbags on the cart path, but the cart path lines up the entire way to the left. If you hit it through the fairway and it gets on the cart path without sandbags, it will literally almost come back to your feet. It will come all the way down. It will roll 200 plus yards down into a hazard. Who that happened to have Bermuda?

Boho. And that was and that was he was in our group 118. I wanted so bad. I almost and I would have probably fallen down if I had ran. I wanted so bad to just run over there and kick his ball to the side. Like somebody stopped his golf ball. It was unbelievable that these people all for like 50 yards were getting out of the way. I've never seen people get out of the way more of that. That well. And then you see the caravan running down downhill on the car path with the camera, he crushed it. And then two in Guatemala is basically the exact same thing.

Straight up the hill, it's like 410, and then from you drive it to like 100 yards and it's up like 25. And you have, every year but one, you just have to walk up it. And it is miserable. Wait a second, you're miserable. And you get to seven and seven's like 730 yards,

dead down volcano, downwind. You can hit two iron, seven iron onto the green sometimes. But sometimes it's into the wind. And oh my god, you're so high up. And it is so narrow with so much wind in it. That's the worst That's the worst Any size been out of bounds

Guatemala was like the scariest place to play golf Because of the golf course was just so visually intimidating like so intimidating Safety like a traveling around Latin America all not at all 100%, 100%. You have, wait, there is no safety or? Oh, no, no. It tons of safety. Okay, like, you have to find the trouble. Okay. Like, you have to be out by yourself drunk late at night.

And sometimes that happens. That's the mean. That's the story. Sometimes that happens. Sometimes, guys, get a little, no, I don't think there was ever any big issues. There might have been a, I don't really know. There might have been a few arrests and then the tours got to like help out. I love Colombia. Colombia was great, beautiful women in Colombia. But you're playing it like 8500 feet and it's cacuia grass and I never could hit it solid

enough to actually get the ball to go as far as it should so I could never play good golf there I Told the the pro am guys in our group. Yeah, I need to make it more G-rated probably than what I don't have to I'm I'm glad I hate that I'm doing this but so I Cordoba Argentina they have one in 10, are 10's like a 150 yard par 3 downhale, and one's like a 390 yard par 4 going the other way.

So everybody tees off from there, and the sponsors from the event bring in like three or four, five girls, and they all have like shorter golf skirts on with, they are like the sponsored t-shirt. And it's, to my knowledge at least everybody there All the sponsors wanted to kind of have like the three or four five of the best-looking women So it was a competition and they all are around One in ten and then on 18 to this usually the traditional Sunday flag is like back right

18 to this usually the traditional Sunday flag is like back right There's so one in ten are really hard t-shirts these girls don't really know anything about golf anyway But they're just these beautiful women all around. There's like 60 of them just staring at you I don't know what's going on, but they're just staring at you almost always hold number L.A.s and looking all nice and One year the first year I'm there. I finish up and I'm in like 15th or so, and this is gonna be my best finish of the year so far, and it's like fifth or sixth event. And I hit it like 12 feet short and left

of this back right hole, and this grandstands are right, like literally, three to four paces from the flag. Like you could easily just, just, whoop the grant. Like you could easily just, just whoop the grant. Like you could just land it in the back fringe and just hit somebody's shin and it just comes back. It was so aggressive. It was so aggressive I was looking at my putt thinking

like I can't even get behind the hold. I kind of want to squat down around these people. So I kind of walk back, I do, I wind up walking back behind the hold, I get my read, I come back on the other side and I like, you know, get squat down and I'm looking through and the girls are in the front row. And sure enough, you look ball, hole, and some of these girls were not sitting very lady-like.

And it's just like, how am I gonna to make this point? Like, what? How do you focus on your read? Like, this is ridiculous. And sure enough, I left a 12 foot or short. 12 foot or short. It was, it was ridiculous. That was the one, that was one. There were, there were story, I mean, I played in Honduras, there were the tarantulas and guys rooms, I played in Honduras, I played the last two rounds, it was so hot I played with, and my stomach was just on edge, I played with two rolls of toilet paper in my golf bag. There, stuff like that always happens.

Yeah. It's just like, I can't imagine all the, the locales in travel and the expense of the travel and like trying to play your best golf in these scenarios. On golf courses that are, I would imagine, not set up. Like, they're not training you for what you're doing. No, not really. Some were pretty good for, I would say, like training you for the corn fairies season

because like a lot of it you could bail out and you could hit like three iron, seven iron, or you could push your driver up there and have 80 yards and separate yourself. It was almost easier to separate yourself down there. If you were driving it well, when guys were always, all the Americans were bailin' all the Latin guys,

they don't care, they're sending drivers all over the place. Driving in the trees, whatever, just hit it through the trees, no problem. No, it was, the courses were hard there only because they were designed. I wouldn't say poorly, but just like weird. Yeah, like that way. Just got to wildmolos, but I see the,

how do I have to pull this off? Like it's, Guatemala, I mean the range, you'd get to the range. You'd hit a couple chip shots, and you might hit another wedge, and you get about to eight iron. The range is so steep up the hill. If you catch that eight iron a little thin, and don't get it in the air,

I mean, it's like damn near 90 degrees. You get an eight iron, 50 yards on that range, because it would just fly right into that thing. And then imagine the last year, yeah, last year when I was there, I don't remember what they did the first year I was there, but they had kids running up and down this probably like 70 degree incline,

hand picking the golf balls. So when they, I mean, and you could hit, you could easily hit them. So they would kind of like run up the right side. So everybody would have to hit it to the left side now. And then they'd shift over and run down the left side. So then everybody has to hit on the right side. I mean, it's, like you can't, you can't even imagine

the stuff that you see. And it's not any disrespect to the event. Like they put on a great event, and they pick Rangeball's force in that manner. There's kids running up and down this slope all day long. That's, I mean, people think you guys kind of live in a bubble, right? You know, that everything.

It's, but that's not the reality. I mean, the things you're seeing and doing, you know, between the golf courses and being in, you are, I mean, it's kind of, I wouldn't say, the places you're playing in Latin America are necessarily reflective of the rest of the country, but you are getting a cultural experience. You're getting it all of this.

Yeah, absolutely. And I enjoyed, I enjoyed the, it was either resorts or cities basically. You're either away at a resort and you just stay there and it's a little easier maybe. I enjoy going to cities and like staying in the city and finding places to eat and trying to piece together enough Spanish to actually do.

So that's where Spanish is. It's like if I was down there for three weeks stretch by the third week, it's pretty good. I can order myself enough food. I can usually get around in an Uber or a cab and my golf Spanish is pretty good. Okay, my golf Spanish is all right. What's in the golf Spanish people can learn?

Like, Viento would be the wind, and it'd be Favore for downwind, Contruff for into the wind. Because you're just getting local caddies there too. I had a, for the most weeks, I had a guy, I think for about eight weeks, all in South America, not, you know, some events in Central America,

Mexico, Caribbean, all the South America events, I had a know, some events in Central America, Mexico, Caribbean, all the South American events I had a guy, but he worked for Argentine guys. He was Argentine. He worked for Argentine guys in Europe, like he knew exactly what we were doing. And we had a really good run. And I'll be honest, there was a really, really long thought about having him come to the states and doing it again. And over time, me learn more Spanish, him learn more English, so we can just like, get along better.

Like, I really enjoyed our time, and we basically would just show up, and it was kind of like Claudio, we're doing our business, and all these other guys are going to have to find a way to beat us towards the end of the year. Like, we were really good together. But I got Mike Karek. I think I got the oldest Kati here. How was he? He's 73. I think he's even older than Fluff. Fluff? And Fieryx Kati. I asked him and he said, yes. I don't know how old Fluff is, but I asked Mike, are you older than Fluff?

So, and Mike's the man who's... Mike Karek, where he worked for Tom Kite for 21 years. I think he's. Wow. Yeah. One the US Openup Heible with him. Wow. So yeah, he's too good for me, for sure.

There's a couple things that we got to cover before we bail here. But Corey also mentioned to me something about how competitive you are. He says, you'll make fake rivalries with people just to fire yourself up. How's that work? I walk past someone like I'm a man. Yeah, like I don't like that. I can't let that guy beat me. I have basically what I call a list of guys that I hate losing to.

Hate. What would be the reasoning? Just like, I don't think that guy is any good. And they're all really good. But I don't think they're good or I don't think that guy is any good, or, and they're all really good, but, you know, I don't think they're good, or I don't think that's a nice guy. Internalized. I don't think he's a nice guy, and he's the nicest guy ever. But, like, you get listed, and I'm just like, nope,

and I, that's the list I want to see. I don't want to see the command list. I can't let that list. Yeah, I could, some guys, I was just like, I can't let that guy beat me, so that was my motivation. If I'm six behind him after Thursday, I'm just gonna beat that guy. I do not like losing to the guys in my group. Like if I'm in a threesome, I want to beat the other two guys.

And even if you know, I'm in a hundredth and they're in 120th, all right, I beat them like I beat some guys. I just yeah, I like beating people and I love coming across guys. It's like oh yeah, he's on the list. Are my assistant coach at SMU, my last three years, Jason Enlow, who played a bunch out here on the corn fairy tour, which was the nationwide, whatever it was, we would always play matches in school, match play.

And he would almost always beat me. and I hated losing to Enlo. Hated it. And I would always press, and I almost found myself always like saving the press, saving the match because I pressed. Well, it got a little, a few times last year, Corey suggested I pull a photo up of Enlo before T off and just imagine like I'm three down to him. And I definitely did that a few weeks.

And those were some great weeks. So yeah, I'll try anything. And I'm good at manufacturing like a chip on my shoulder. But there is, there always will be. The way that I went about things and did things will be more prevalent over the years. People, I think more and more people will go to these international tours and then graduate to the corn fairy and then be here. But that will always give me at least in my mind a little edge, a little advantage.

I will always have a chivalmer shoulder. And I love beating all Americans. I was never even close to being good enough. Like I didn't get snubbed from being an All-American. Nothing, but I love beating All-Americans. Love it. What do you play much with Speed back home? At Trinity Forest.

No, no. We've played one set, Trinity Forest, and one set Dallas National. He plays most of his golf at Dallas National, I think. I see him out there quite a bit. What did you learn in the fight? Did you learn anything in any of them. Did you learn anything from him or? Yeah, we played together.

I this is a pretty good story. We played together kind of if I can tell it, right? It's a good story. Me, Jordan, Kelly, Kraft, and Cody Grimmel. Kelly had just gotten out onto the Web.com tour the time. This is before Jordan won the Masters. I think it was the fall of 14. He had just won, and I think he might have just been picked to the Presidents Cup.

He just won John Deere, and then Cody was working his way up through mini-tours, but like starting to really have success. And then I was, I think I was a junior in college. So, 13 was a speed on the Presidents Cup at your field of field. Okay. Yeah. Well, then he would already play the president's cup. I think he's yeah, yeah Yeah, some are like before he won the masters and I remember we played what what is now marido the old otterscores and Dallas and 16 was like a downhill T-shop par five and then three woods slash driving iron with water left

Back left flag you can hit it a slash driving iron with water left, back left flag, you can hit it a mile right and just pitch it onto the green, use the slope, run it down. But you can get a funky lie, you might not have a great look, you might hit it to 20 feet. I think I hit first, so I think I hit the shorter self-the-t, and I bailed to the right, fine, totally fine. Cody goes next, bail's to the right.

Kelly goes next, bail's to the right, Kelly goes next, Bale's to the right. And Jordan was the longest one off the tee. And I remember, you know, I was the first time I played with him, and he had just won on the PJ tour, and it's Jordan's beef like he's, he's going to be great. I want to kind of get a feel for this. I kind of been paying attention all day to what he's done. And every time and it was super heightened on this shot. Every time he would just like you could almost visually see him not I'm not accepting bailing off to the right. Like the furthest right of the flag I'm going to hit it is 30 feet.

I'm just going to hit it to 30 feet at worst and I'm going to have the easiest two putter. I'm going to have a chance for Eagle. And it was so heightened in that moment. It was like, whoa. If you can find a way to have like the refusal to bail out and the certainty to know that you're gonna pull this shot off and you're not going to bail right, and sure enough, he hit it to like 30 feet right of it.

And we were playing a little pretty high stakes for me at the time in college gambling game and I got it up and down from right and tied Jordan. I may I remember having like an eight footer and being a little like shaky at the time and I just Throated this putt and I sometimes I'll think about that putt sometimes now when I always kind of refer back to shots and moments You know, maybe similar pressure pack moments when I feel this way, but I will never forget and I'm always trying to get to where holy shit, like he's not bailing out.

Like the easiest thing in the world is to hit a short right and chip on. He's gonna hit it either close or he's gonna hit it to 25, 30 feet and have the easiest hoop up birdie of all time. That was like eye opening to me. So I'd love to play with a more and everybody's asked who you're going to play with

in the Zurich and I don't know if Jordan listens and I mean we know it's you know well enough. He listens at times. I don't know if he listens an hour and 14 minutes in. I don't think he's going to listen to me. But if he wants to play, I mean, I could always ask Bryson to. Like, it's kind of a no-brainer. Like, he's pretty good.

I mean, what's you went to college with Bryson for two years? Can we, the level of knowledge and application of physics, what can you give us? Well, my knowledge of that is like next to zero so I don't know that I'm the foremost expert but Bryson is really smart about Bryson's stuff. I'm not a physics, I sort of don't really know anything about physics. He's also super smart and like if he takes the time to think through it, he knows it. Sometimes he can say things that he might not know a whole lot about and it's like,

no, that's not quite right, Bryson. Like, we know this. No, no, no, no, no, no, that's not it. So no, it was interesting playing golf with him for two years. I can imagine that. Well, I think on the physics front, we're gonna get to it in a second. This is what I equate it to.

Is that seeing the 40-year-old Virgin, where Steve Carell is like, yeah, you ever just feel a boob and it feels like a bag of sand. And everyone starts like, wait a second here. That was last year when he referenced terminal velocity and had nothing to do in terminal velocity. I think everyone knows that. I was like, I remember seeing on Twitter some SMU physics

impressive, it was like, wait, no, no, no, that's not right. That was like lightbulbs. So what's the, I think Bryson Skull physics is like, I know doubt he understands his own game and how it's seen. But it might even, it probably, to my knowledge, is probably even wrong in terms of like physics, but he just like, yeah, I know this. So I'm just, that I'm getting really, yeah.

I think the, I'm, and I think sometimes he uses it as an advantage. He just kind of talks his way and uses big words so people just don't get to know. So he's just the only one, he owns that. He's just the only one that knows how to do this. And I, we'll see, I think in a few years, like he's on to something.

If you stand over a seven iron versus a four iron, you're probably gonna think you're gonna hit a better shot with a seven iron. I think he's on to something. Yeah, it's kind of rocket science, but it's kind of smart, too. Right, he's, I cut you off, you're getting ready to tell us a Bryson related story,

I believe, what was the only tip of your tongue there? Oh, I just remember him showing up and being like, whoa, all these clubs are like, really, we're doing this. And I remember we convinced him, I think it was his freshman year in the, like, part of the spring season. He used a normal-length lob wedge.

That was it. But then he's like, you know what? No, I want to do it my way. And to his credit, then he spends 10 hours a day on the chipping green figure. You're not a way to do it with his club. Like, there's no, it's not because of all this physics that he is, who he is, and how good he is. It is his belief in this, and his refusal, kind of like speed, I'm refusing to bail out. Bryson's refusing to do it any other way. He is going to find his way, how to do it.

And that, I mean, he's going to be good for so long. Oh yeah. I mean, I've seen him go six months without hitting it, exactly where he was looking. So then he started having to figure out like, oh God, I'm hitting at every one of these flags. Like, if I just off, or I get a bad break, I'm gonna make some bad bogus. So he started figuring it out, strategy, word A, and all this stuff.

And when you actually hit it where you're aimed 98 times out of 100, you're gonna be really hard to beat. I've actually a little surprised. We haven't seen more success out of them. Like what we saw last fall, I was like,'s it like he's like this is it this is gonna be a takeover this is gonna be 30 win career I was surprised in a way at how much he's won already because he won while I was in school he only won once he won our conference championship his sophomore year my senior year that was

his only individual win and then he went on to win. I think one or two more times, and then obviously won the NCAA, championship and the USAM. So that there was a trend, but he did not win a ton. And he finished like no worse than sixth for like 60 events. And I always used to joke that I don't care about anybody else. I want to beat Bryson, because if I beat Bryson, the worst I'm going to finish is probably like eighth.

Like if I in one shot ahead of him, he probably is in ninth. He's one of the all Americans you wanted to beat. Oh yeah. And he still is. Bryson, Bryson, I love him to death and he's a great friend, but Bryson is forever listed. I would love to beat Bryson by a shot for the rest of my career. I have a lot of learning and a lot of getting better

to do to do that. He is insanely good and is only going to get better. So that is kind of my, and it's kind of funny with Scotty Sheffler now. Like Scotty and I have been really good friends. Scotty is eternally listed. Who else on the list that you could say? Who else?

NLOW was always Jason, was my brother always. Gray is too nice. I would, I mean if he wins, like, okay, that's fine. Guys come and go too. Oh, Lotto. I love beating Lotto. He's so good, it's hard to beat him. He's a teammate of you. Obviously, is he on our team? The red X cups. Okay, well then we've got to be winning by a minute. Oh my God, it's over.

Lonto is almost always listed. Not in a bad way. Like no one's listed in a bad way. But I love to beat these guys. I'm sure the people listed in a bad way. There are one or two that are listed in a bad way. You're not going to give us those, I'm going to guess. I don't really remember who they are,

to be honest with you. I do not going to give us those. I'm going to guess. I don't really remember who they are. Yeah. To be honest with you. I do not like losing to Lanto. What, for sure? For sure. I just don't like losing to it. No, no real reason. Right.

He's not on there. A taunting winner, is that why, or is it? No, he's not. Lanto's great. But I love beating Lanto. I think it's, it might be me. I love beating Scotty. I love beating Bryson.

We might be getting to the part where I'm ready to wrap this up just so you'll tell me all the off-the-record stuff. We'll see I think Keppka will be like somebody that I'd love to beat. I remember playing that was the gosh what was a South Beach international AM or something like that and my dad was cadding for me and I was a I think I was a junior in high school, a just committed to SMU. And I played with Brooks and he was like maybe a sophomore, a junior in college and we didn't know anything about college golf. And his brother Chase, who's insanely good, was cadding for him.

And we got playing and I was like, man, this guy's swing is pretty good. He, that is pretty good, but he, he kind of just got a couple of bad breaks, a couple of loose swings. And he had a Florida State bag and, oh, so he's, you know, you play a Florida State and they were kind of quiet, keep themselves. So I just kept a couple bad breaks, a couple loose swings. He had a Florida state bag, oh, so he's gonna, you know, you play a Florida state and they were kind of quiet, keep themselves, I just kept myself. And then he started getting ballistic, like he was just slamming clubs and everything.

And, you know, I think he's talked about how like, he's fought his way through it. And what he does now is so impressive after what I'd seen. Like, he honestly didn't deserve to be on a golf course. He was acting so poorly. Really? And we finished. And my dad asked me on the car ride back to the hotel,

like, Harry, do you think that guy bought that Florida state bag in the bookstore? There's no way he's good enough to play on that team. And I was like, dad, I think I've kind of heard this guy's name before. I think he's pretty good. Like his swing was pretty good. And now that's just our running joke, that he's like a whatever,

how many time Ryder Cup player, four time major winner. I think he bought that. Best golfer in the world. He did not buy that bag of the bookstore. I knew he's gonna be good. I knew he's gonna be the best player in the world. That's pretty impressive. Well, he's Royce.

He's coming. He's coming. He's coming. All right. Well, let's let you out of here on that. I hope this is nothing less than that because that was an awesome hour plus and people are going to really appreciate this. I'm happy to. I gotta let you get on that. I'm your way with the rest of your week though.

So appreciate you making the time and best of luck this week at RCM. Yeah, thank you very much. I'm gonna be the right club today. Yeah! That's better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most! Expect anything different!

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I'm gonna be the best. I'm gonna be the best. I'm gonna be the best. I'm gonna be the best. I'm gonna be the best. I'm gonna be the best. I'm gonna be the best. I'm gonna be the best.

I'm gonna be the best. I'm gonna be the best. I'm gonna be the best. I'm gonna be the best. I'm gonna be the best.