No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 276: Brad Faxon, Part II

Episode Date: January 29, 2020

Brad Faxon is back to talk even more on putting, what to expect with Winged Foot, his Augusta experiences, how he processed his playing career coming to an end, as well as his take on the recent Patrick Reed situation. We also talk a lot more about his work with Fox, and he shares one more great embarrassing story. Thanks again to Brad for his time, these are really fun to do.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yeah. That's better than most. I'm not in. That is better than most. Better than most! Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No Laying Up Podcast. We're going to get to another hour plus conversation we had with Brad Faxon here shortly. Since he is the putting guru though, before we do get started, you heard me talk on this weekend's recat pod about Mark Leishman and Madeline Sagsstrom

winning on tour with Odyssey putters. Well, the number one putter in golf has even more news for you. So for those that struggle with your alignment with putting, this is gonna be an absolute godsend. They've announced their new lineup of triple track putters, which features a concept you've seen on the Calibre golf balls. The three distinct alignment aids, the lines that help you line up your puts.

I kind of, I'm about 80% of the time I'm a truest guy, but when I need a different look, I go to the triple track, and I will say if you have fallen even remotely in love or interested in the triple track, you got to see what they've done with the triple track lines on the Odyssey putter. So they line up perfectly. The ball has the triple track and the putter has the exact same triple track. The test data shows 88% of golfers are better aligned

with triple track technology. Neil uses the triple track. He's the most religious user of it amongst all of us. And he's making putts all over my ass because on a consistent basis. The triple track putters are available in the most popular Odyssey shape. So my favorite, the Odyssey 10,

I need to get one of these in the arsenal. So when I do go back to that triple track that I've got the Odyssey 10 putter to go with it, classic two ball has it, even the double wide blade among others. So for more on the Odyssey triple track, visit odysigolf.com, Triple Track visit OdysseyGolf.com that's OdysseyGolf.com without further delay, here is Brad Faxon. Well I know we

talked a lot of putting last episode. I am gonna want to talk more of that. I know we talked a lot of Rory. I think that was pretty well covered other than noting right after we had you know this discussion about the practice session that we viewed last time, he went out and won a tournament. So we knew we were sniffing around the right trail around that time. Well, I said to somebody today at the demo day that one of the secrets to being a great coach is coaching great players. Seriously, I mean, make a good guy. I mean, make a good guy is, you know, a once in a lifetime player.

So he can make any teacher look pretty good. But his approach is so much more unusual today than what everybody else is doing. He's had one instructor, his entire life, a caddy that's the best friend. They don't go to tournaments, the instructors don't. For general, they don't. And I got lucky with the timing of when he asked me to come watch him. And I listen, I'm proud of it because he, his numbers have gotten way better on the greens in the last couple of years. He's played unbelievably well. He's a tournament away from being number one in the world, doesn't he? Yeah.

One victory. And he's number one. I can see that happen in soon and going back to a place like Torrey Pines where he played well last year. And I think his putting rankings would have been lower last year because he shot, I believe 64 on the North course And they don't use shot link on the North course and you know, he made seven or eight birdies that day So that would be deep in this time. Come on Trying to pull I was so I listened back to our episode from October I was playing an evening nine yesterday and I wanted to listen back so it was fresh

I didn't just make sure we didn't talk about the same things over and over again But one of the things we talked about was one of the practice drills of going and hitting putts was something other than putter. And I was actually struggling with my putting a little bit and I went and hit like 10 putts with a 60 degree. And immediately I was like, wow, why does that feel better? Because I think I got too far on my head on putting stroke and that drill immediately brought me right back to like, no, no, no no just like being athlete and let your instincts take over.

Right. It's a it's a phenomenon really and I'm going to get a reputation for oh, Faxon will just tell you to be athletic. He'll just tell you to free it up. He'll just tell you to forget about everything which is probably a good thing to do for anybody. I've yet to have a top player come to me and say I need to think about more. I need to take longer.

I need to make sure I'm more perfect. Nobody's saying that, okay? And what I'm trying to get players to understand and to feel and to realize is when you do that, when you take your sandwich or lob wedge, all of what's correct goes out the window. And what I mean by that is a lot of players are used to use in a mirror or chalk lines or something to help them square everything up and look to correct that they're watching video. They're trying to make their posture perfect. I see a lot of players when they set up, they're looking at there, you know, that maybe there's toast dance line, their legs, their hips, their shoulders, see that everything's square before they hit a

pot and I'm like, wait a minute, this has taken all your senses away from what you're supposed to be doing and thinking about where you want the ball to go. And if you can't feel the difference in what you just said about taking out a lob wedge and just trying to hit it down there, all of a sudden, it doesn't matter how you hold it where you aim.

You're just trying to belly the ball and some people soul the club, some people raise it up. It's a leading edge that's usually, it's not straight, right? Most of them are some kind of leading edge that has some kind of curve on it. So you're not lined up perfectly, and all of a sudden people go, oh, I feel so good.

But you've got to know what that feels like before you can ever feel it like that in competition. Yeah, and that's something. In recent weeks, I've been feels so good. But you've got to know what that feels like before you could ever feel like that in competition. Yeah, and that's something, in recent weeks, I've been playing more golf and I've had some putting rounds where I have been as close to blacking out as possible. I mean, like 10, 12 footers are practically gimme's for me. And then I will go play a different course the next day and I can't get the ball to leave the putter face in a straight line. It comes off left, it comes off right,

I just can't channel that. And I have no idea what the difference is. I can't, that's what I'm trying to channel and I wanted to kind of pick your brain on. When things aren't going great, say in a round with your putting. I'm trying so hard to channel black. I don't even think about it.

Don't do anything. I try to go back to like, hey, just feel like you swing the heel on it. Or I get more vertical over it and try to feel like the heel comes off the ground a little bit, a little bit more like Steve Stricker. But it never seems to be something that I can flip the switch in the middle of around. Is there anything you can have there? No, it's a common problem really. I go back to, first of all, we're human beings,

we're not perfect robots and machines where every day is going to feel the same, how you get out of bed is different every day. But most of the people that have played this game and you would agree with this have had a shot a full swing shot or a putt that you knew you were going to make or knew you're going to hit straight before you swung that club, right? Everybody. And that's a great feeling. And whether you wanna call that black dot state like you did or a flow state like we're here and more about, I think that research on the brain is virtually,

we're just tapping into it. There were two or three percent of the way there. And how do we get somebody to be where you wanna be every single time they play? And there's a great challenge to it. But I was really good for a long time when I played at not blaming something mechanical in my stroke when I missed or when I kept saying to myself,

keep doing your routine over and over the same way, keep doing your process and wait till these putts go in. And now, when you're missing, that's a hard thing to do. But at the elite level, I don't think you really have a choice. And my favorite line that I've ever heard, I have a lot of favorite lines from a lot of people, but from Bob Rhotella, is you gain control from giving up control.

You gain control from giving up control. And I'll tell you more applicable way that you could think about that. I used to try to play a lot of my practice on top players, Greg Norman a lot of times. Tom Kite was, took me under his wing early on, Peter Jacobson. So I was going to the first tee in a practice round with Tom Kite at the TPC at the Woodlands. And the first hole there was a dog leg right, par 5.

It was kind of narrow. And I think it was a new course, probably in 1984, 85. Bob Rotella was out there with us. It was kind of the first round he had ever followed me around. Kite had been one of the first couple pros, Dennis Watson, Kai. And as Kai's walking on the first tee, he turns around and goes, wow, you could miss this fairway

if you tried. And Rotella said, no, you couldn't miss it if you didn't try. So that's kind of like a tangent to that, gaining control by giving up control. So I always like those little sayings because everybody kind of knows what it means. It gets them a little frustrated sometimes

because they don't buy into it right away. But when you're playing your best, your abs and a thought. Yeah. I think there's a difference between hitting good putts and not making them and just not feeling like you're putting it well. I think it's kind of, we talked about that some last time. Yeah, you got to live with, hey, I hit a great putt there and whatever golf happened and you're putting it well. I think it's kind of, we talked about it some last time. Yeah, you gotta live with,

hey, I hit a great putt there and whatever golf happened and it didn't go in. Right. I think it is just so hard to channel, you know, in that middle of that round, when it's not going great, how what makes you a good putt. And I think it's as simple as like,

I was playing by myself last night, absolutely no stakes. And I had like an actual birdie putt. And I hit it so poorly, I just, it was just never had a chance. And I tried it again, and as soon as I looked up at the hole, I saw the putt totally differently. I just, I wasn't thinking about this is for birdie. You as a 20 footer, it moves a little to a lot. I just saw it totally differently, and my mind was more freed up.

And I don't, I don't remember if I made it or not, I just remember being like, whoa, that's a really different feeling and so as a common phrase it's like first team all the second ball all-American people say when they hit another shot but what is that I mean you understand mental golf better than any of any of the the me or anyone listening out imagine what is that well I want you to go back and listen to what you just said to me because early on right here when you said you don't even remember whether you hit the putt in the hole or not. But you were in the right state.

And I think the best players in the world, especially when they're putting their best, they'll hit putts. And when they don't go in, they can react in a positive way, have their acceptance be patting themselves on the back rather than beating themselves up. And I know personally when I've been thinking about my stroke and trying to find some magic in there, there's always a balance, right? Every player's got some technique issues, every player's got some mental issues, what's going on upstairs, and you got to blend those. And sometimes you add a technical thought to clear up the mind and

That'll work sometimes and it really is so individual on the player. Well, do you do you know? What let's say you're when you're putting your best in your day Do you know what you were thinking like did you have a thought a swing thought with the putter? This is the first time I've ever seen you look confused I definitely have and I've they've all been different, but I've told this a rory, especially, and he likes this feel. I always felt like if I had my right shoulder, my right elbow, right hand work is kind of a piston and a chain down to the head of the putter. That thing, that always felt good to me.

I'm very right-handed and very right-sided, So that was a feel that I could keep and work well. But one of the things, the more instruction I've done, the things that I like to see, I like to see how good guys are at imitating other players. Could you imitate some of those silly strokes you mentioned, stricker? His hands are high, his heels off the ground, his grip pressure's tense.

Can you hit a button, make it? I had Rory do that a few times with old putter, old wooden shaft to putter, you know, a straight blade. And he got crouched down there and looked like Harry Vardner or something. And he made him. You know, he was really good at that. And I've had some guys get, let me see how resty you can get

and make a putt. Let me see you do Lauren Roberts where you feel like the blades face it. And do you still have that awareness of face and path together and still can make those putts. Those things help you. And it's kind of like, learn a little skill on how to juggle that eye hand coordination stuff. Yeah, I think that's kind of similar

to picking up a wedge and doing something like that. Who were, and I know you've mentioned some of them, but who were some of the guys that really commanded a lot of your respect when it came to putting? Well, it's funny. I just had a conversation with Ray Floyd a couple days ago. Ray Floyd designed the course, Old Palm, where I live in the development.

And he was the architect there, and a guy that was one of the most intimidating players to play with. And I remember specifically the Westchester tournament was the Buick Classic, maybe even the Manny Hanny before that, but we were on the 10th of 12th, 13th T. And I had the honor. I was a slow player as a young guy. And on the front of his T-box, it was up pretty high. There were a bunch of people walking down below. And Floyd was front of his T-box, it was up pretty high. There were a bunch of people walking down below and Floyd was to the T to the right, on the right side of the T. He couldn't see these people. And I stepped away twice from a shot. Can I say the

F word on your shirt? Say whatever you want. He, I stepped away for the second time. And it was a tough T-shirt for me. He goes, will you play fucking golf? And I've never swung so fast in my life. I hit the worst shot and I went over and I put my head down like, oh my god, right? So I just told me to hit the fucking. And he was a guy that commanded respect. And I said to him, you know, we had an hour at his house a few days ago. And we were talking about a lot of things. And particularly this short game because he was a wizard around the greens and his whole thought, I asked him, I said,

did you have anything you ever thought about when you put it? He goes, no, I never thought anything. All I wanted to do was be comfortable. And if you can think about Ray Floyd standing over a pot, he had a 38-inch long potter, which was very long. It was a zebra. And he has very short arms and a long torso. So I actually stood up next to him. He showed. It was a zebra. And he has very short arms and a long torso. So I actually stood up next to him. He showed me this was a remarkable. My hands, my fingertips, were four or five inches closer to the ground than his. So he needed a longer putter. It was really heavy. He had great flow, but bent elbows, arms far apart. And you could see his feet always tapping, always moving until he got comfortable.

And he said, I never thought about anything when I put it. I'm like, never. I mean, four-time major champion. And we played one round at the Masters years ago. This was in the 90s, mid 90s. He's still a great player. And he hit a back then, a high-lofted sand wedge on the 14th hole, which was that intimidating green.

The whole location was front right, and a lot of times you'd have it hit off the false front and come back, and it would get into the ryegrass fringe, which was tightly moan and most people would be running this thing up, but then once it got to the top, it would run away. He took out his 60 degree or whatever, 58 degree. He had a JP Wilson Sand wedge, and he hit this ball back in the top, it would run away. He took out his 60 degree or whatever, 58 degree. He had a JP Wilson sandwich, and he hit this ball back in the stance on an upslope,

banged it into the front of the green. And as it crested the hill, it had a little six or seven feet to go, way before it was even close to going in. He was walking it in, left arm up, and it went in. And it went in so soft the flag stick was in. But it's almost like the ball never hit the flag like how did you just do that and he says I practiced that stuff all the time I always had different shots I was imagining I'm like here's Ray Floyd and what was it was remarkable about that

Chris is players like Floyd, Sevy, Hubert Green, they were unique in their styles and commanded a lot of respect. And we would say to those guys, you have great touch, you have great feel, you have great hands. And now I see, you know, here we are looking at the PGA show with all the merchandise, how many grips do you see that are thin anymore? Almost none. And every teachers now, let's take the hands out of the swing. Let's use big muscles. Like big muscles. Come on. Let's use little muscles. Let's use your hands and fingers and one of the little practice exercises that I like to do is to, you know, if you're having trouble with chipping, if I stood to the side of you and rolled the ball to you, so you would hit the moving ball, I bet you'd start chipping

pretty good with that hitting and moving ball. I bet you'd start chipping pretty good without hitting a moving ball. And it would even work with a putter too. And you wouldn't be trying to use big muscles to do that. I'm trying to get Ray Floyd for a podcast. They haven't replied to any of the emails, so I might have to get you to set me up there. Everyone's got a Ray Floyd story.

He's so interesting. And I always think people with a twang, whether the accents from Scotland, which would be the broke, obviously, or North Carolina, where he grew up, he's so interesting to listen to. He's played with everybody, and he kept in touch because his both his sons played with the modern day game. You should get them on. Yeah, I'm working on it. He just seems like such a, like the story he just told there, he was like an authoritative figure in golf. I mean, he was an alpha.

He pushed people around a little bit. Yeah, he did. And he, I had to talk to him about him, something about an old poem about the golf course design there. We were having an argument about something with a couple of people. So I said, I want to meet you face to face because he's not really a texture. You know, he's just about 80 years old, not quite. But I said to him, I said, you know, your wife Maria used to tell you you had that look

in your eye. And he got famous for that. And I'll tell you what, when I said to him, I looked in his eye, I had to say something. I'm like, oh my God. It's really intimidating. So to play against him in a singles rider cup something, I'm like, oh my God. It's really intimidating. So to play against him in a singles rider cup match, I wouldn't want it to be that guy. What you start talking about the wooden shafted putters and stuff there. How much has technology in putting change?

We talk a lot about the golf ball change, the driver's getting bigger and how far guys hit it, but has technology in putting numb the skill of it at all, in your opinion? There's a little bit of evidence that you can see from the shot length data that's showing that players are improving slightly across the board from putting distance, certain distance, whether three feet, six feet, 10 feet. And would you say that's the skill of the player or would you say the agronomy is better?

Green surfaces are smoother, soft spikes are taking out a lot of the marks that were in the greens you can fix. And that's, I don't know. I think greens are definitely better. You can see the grasses and what's really better is brimutagrass now. We used to dread going to brimutagrass screens. Now it's your favorite love putting brimutagrass. Don't you? Which I would have never said many. I came from Midwest, but now I've been down in Florida for two years.

I wonder if I'm only good on brimutagrass. You used to be worried about grain, particularly the common brimutagrasses that you saw before, and now these new strains of tithegyl till the door of celebration, you're like, this looks like a carpet. There doesn't look like anything irregular here. The colors are all similar. It's definitely helping players. But it's a combination.

Scottie Cameron, when I first started seeing him in the mid 90s, he had a patent on the speed of his cameras. It was so high speed. And he could slow down everything about the stroke that you could see, the collision of the putter with the ball, how it left the putter head, and how the loft affected the ball. Then you could obviously see the entire stroke in the body. But I think that if you looked at the evolution,

the lofts on putters back then, and those putters, the calamity chain, putter of the Bobby Jones used, would have had a lot more loft. The sweet spot was really hard to find. The grasses were higher, so you needed more loft. Hands were for as a rISTI stroke, you know, a very RISTI stroke.

So now, I think you'll see, I mean, even from like your, like when you came out on tour to now on tour, do you see putting, despite all the other outside factors, the technology that's actually in putters, do you see a big difference? Yes, and what I see now is with the mallet style putters that have the MOI's.I.s changed so much that you can hit the ball off center a little bit

and it never twists. It's easier to swing, they're almost self swinging. I think the drawback to those and they're heavy is there's not as much feedback as you might have got from a traditional blade putter whether it was an 802 or a, what I use, the fact-stay the Laguna model. But I would say we're going to see as the younger players

continue to use putters that Adam Scott or Justin Thomas or Rory Maccaro use that are more mallet, don't twist as much. You'll see more face balance. I had trouble, like I resisted switching to a mallet. Now I feel like I think I'ded switching to a mallet now. I think I think I'd be getting bigger and bigger for me. I just feel like it it's a hurdle to get over initially and then it's like oh yeah I wouldn't almost

why wouldn't you have something like that. I see in the in the the juniors you know at Fox we do the US junior boys we see the US junior girls we saw the young amateur players just more and more mallets now that I've ever seen., if you guys are listening to this podcast that means that it is here Taurus sauce season five is here. It is live on our YouTube channel This season is brought to you by original penguin. It takes us through our road trip through the Carolinas episode One is at Sesson golf club in Bufert, South Carolina It is an enjoyable 24, 25 minute watch. The live premiere was on Tuesdays.

If you want to catch the live premieres, we're going to do it every week at 8 p.m. on Tuesday nights. A lot more people can join on Tuesday nights. We had a great turnout on a couple of thousand people, I guess, we're watching the live stream, the live platform to tell you a bit about original Penguin. Listen, they've got styles for everyone. So if you want something wild,

like you're gonna see Neil and Tron wearing in the course of this season, original penguin has that. If you prefer a more conservative, more traditional look, they have that too. You're gonna see that with many, many different shades of blue for your boy. It's the fit of the clothes.

It's specifically the polos and pants are extra, I don't not describe it, I wear these clothes both in the series and when I'm just casually laying around the house, it's a great fit, it's one of the more comfortable fits. It stands for originality and celebrating good times both on and off the course. You can wear almost all their stuff on the golf course and off. Actually, you started wearing the hoodie a little bit on the course, which definitely gets a couple of looks, a couple of curious looks. But we demonstrated this both wearing it on and off the course, this entire season. You're going to see it. So always remember to be in original, check out originalpenguin.com. We're going to have contests within throughout

the course of this entire season. They've been a great partner to work with. And if you do win the contest, for the week you get to choose your favorite outfit from the episode, and you are gonna send you one, we're gonna send you the full original penguin outfit. So again, head to our YouTube channel, check that out, and be sure to check out originalpenguin.com. Let's get back to Brad Faxon.

What you mentioned talking about video there on, and I never knew about that patent on the camera. The camera speed got what a pioneer that guy is I guess I should say. What did you learn about seeing your putting stroke on camera? I don't know if it's for the first time or how far into your career before you really started studying your putting on camera. But what did you learn about it? Well did I ever show you the putting chart on the yellow pad piece of paper? I don't think so. I'll show it to you while we're talking because it's remarkable and I had two giant influences on my putting career and one of them was a

conversation with Ben Crenshaw and one of them was the first time I went into Scotty Cameron's when I saw my stroke when a little bit straight back and then I kind of went over the top and cut across it. Now I had done that most of my life and I was doing this talk for last year's PGA show and I'm gonna show this to you now. I wish I could post this. I can post it with the episode of People Consent. So here on the left column or the year I started 1984 and that's just the years I played.

And the first stat they kept in putting was putts per round. So if you hit 10 greens, you'd have normally less putts per round because you'd chip it in there closer than your iron shots would go. So here's my rankings, the first five years in putts per round. And they didn't have the putts per green and regulation stat that later came out. So I was 69th, 47th, 34th, 12th, so a good year in 87. 88th, 89th, I was 66th and 112th. So you'd say, I was a good putter, maybe a little bit better than I was, but not extraordinary. I met Crenshaw here, now he had one as masters in 85. And is that correct? He did, 85 to

94. Yeah, 85. So I talked to Crenshaw here in Orlando at the Disney tournament. At the Palm Course, it was late on a Tuesday afternoon and a buddy of mine named Gary Smith who used to work as an instructor for David Leadbetter wanted to video Crenshaw's stroke. And he asked me if I would ask Ben, and I was nervous. Here I am a fifth year player. I knew Crenshaw master's champ, but not well enough.

But it was a quiet afternoon, and he was gracious as you would expect and I said hey Ben Bradfax and my friend Gary wants to video you're stroking this back then VHS tape You know the big camera and Crenshaw said sure and he goes he actually admitted to us that I'm not playing that well Not putting that well Crenshaw said that to me. I'm like well, I would never say that and I go well, what's wrong? He goes I'm stroking Add it not through it which is hard to decipher. What is that? well, what's wrong? He goes, I'm stroking, add it, not through it, which is hard to decipher. What does that mean?

Sort of, so, Tarek. And I'm like, hmm. So he goes, what do you do when you feel like that? He goes, well, I try to make my back swing longer and my follow through a little bit shorter. And I allow, or I try to let my knees, my head, my knees move when I put. I don't know what.

And Gary Smith almost dropped the putt and I go, you allow your head and your ass, is it's a little mini swing the putting stroke, he says there's weight shift and stuff and it keeps me softer when I putt. I don't have as much tension. And he had that putting stroke when he took it back, it was free flowing and the putt kind of had a little loop

and it got up in the air and he dropped it on the ball, used him gravity. So, I mean, just to continue with the stat. So, after I met Crenshaw, I went from 112 to 8, 22nd, 14th, 4th, 34th, and then we add this other stat, because this was I was always told, you don't have a lot of putts per on, because you miss all the greens, because they hit it great. And then the putts per green and regulation was supposed to be a more accurate measurement of how you put it. So, only the greens you hit were hit at grade. And then the puts for green and regulation was supposed to be a more accurate measurement of how you put it. So only the greens you hit in regulation.

So here I was, 120, 17, 26, 11, 12, very inconsistent. So I meet Crenshaw. I went 13, 58, second, 38. And then Scotty came to titleist in 95, and we started working on putters and strokes. And it was really the first time, like I said said that I'd seen my stroke in this high speed and So this gets pretty good 95 I went from 34th to 6th first first third second first fourth 11th 18th 6th 5th 9th and so those last three years 0 4 0 5 0 6 I

Was 43 44 45 years old so that old adage that you only can put well in your young, might my streak here from, I call it a streak, 95 to whatever those years, when I was never outside of the top 20, won the title three times. I was 34, 35, 36, 37. So you can get better as you get older. So I learned a lot about my stroke from Scotty. And then what I liked the most is I won the title

on the other stat that puts pre-green regulation. So we didn't have the strokes gain putting until my final three years. And I was winded down. I had tore my ACL in 03. So I played injured for a while, but ninth, fifth, that's a second, ninth, ninth second and fifth. Even though I didn't feel like I put it my best for the last six or seven years I played

in the tour, I think the only two guys that were in front of me were Luke Donald and Tiger Woods. So was I born a great putter? That's what pisses me off on people say that. I go, no, I mean, I practice, practice, that discounts or discrets everything you've ever done as a kid. Yeah, and when I asked who the people that commanded the most of your respect for pudding, I was expecting you to say, Crenshaw. I knew there was a Crenshaw tie, but I don't think I knew that, that whole story to that. Woodstrokes gained, you know, that didn't come into play until it looks like

2014. Oh, three, I think was the first year they started using. Would that have helped you? Like, would that have, you know, there wasn't the putting stats just, I guess, did you have any other data back then that was better than putting average? Because there's some flaws in that stat. Yeah, there are sure are. And all of them. you could you could say that there may be there's flaws in in stroke scheme but what it never tells you in what statistics never tell you is where your head is before you hit your shot. Right so I mean if you if you made up a criteria of stroke scheme to attitude how would that affect or change the way you put it or you look to when you did it?

And I'm trying to find a picture as I scroll through here of my favorite one of Ben Crenshaw, which I'll find in a minute, but his motion was so good. I think I looked at stats or I thought about putting when I put it great. If I didn't put, well, I tried to throw those feelings out the window. What, you know, you kind of looking at your stats there as you approach the end of your PGA tour career. What was it, what was it like to essentially end your competitive PGA tour career? How did you know it was time? Was that a difficult thing to process? What was that time period like? So I remember being, I was in a gym in my basement in my house in Rhode Island and I was 42 years old.

I just played a great year in 0203 and I had this kind of meat head trainer, you know, I was paying 45 bucks an hour and he'd come to my gym and we'd do crazy stuff and not crazy stuff, but just, you know, working on whatever we were crazy stuff and not crazy stuff but just you know working on whatever we were lifting weights and doing our stuff and then this particular Monday of Thanksgiving I think I was 11th or 13th in the whatever the world ranking was then and I did this stupid exercise I can't believe I did it. I've never seen anybody do it since but I I was using a six pound medicine boy I had finished the workout. I was in really good shape. I was 42 and he said to me, hey, stand up, squeeze the ball between your ankles. And I want you to jump and throw it to me with your feet. I go, why would I do that? He goes,

this is a lower ab exercise. And I'm like, what? He's like, show me how. So he shows me how it does, because pretty strong guy. It looks like Popeye. And I I Did it a couple times I got it going. I'm like, yeah, that's definitely low abs And I'm like so I did the fifth or six one and he said just do 10 so I did I'm Put it between my ankles jump, but I didn't squeeze hard enough so the ball stayed on the ground But I jumped so my right foot landed on top of the ball and I just went And I felt my knee just turned like a can opener It was just going in slow motion around I'm like, oh my god, I just tore my ACL and I'm you know It didn't hurt as much as I thought it would hurt

But it hurt. Yeah, and I'm grabbing my knee goes come on get up. You go to finish. I'm like what? And he I've never seen him since that day. Yeah, and it was funny I was I used to be a squash player. And I went up to watch the US Open Squash at Harvard. And I saw the entire baseball team doing that exercise. I'm like, no. No. But the long answer to that question about when did I see my career wind?

I didn't know then that that would be, you know, I was playing pretty good. I create corporate deals going. I was making some good money. And I panicked because I tore my ACL. I was in the mass. I was in every tournament. And I didn't know what to do. This was November. I knew from ACLs, from players that played other sports you were out for the year. And I'm thinking, I'm like, I'm going to miss an entire year. And I asked all these doctors called Dr. Andrews and Alabama, the top doctor in Boston at Mass General. And finally, this one guy named George Bert Zarrins,

who worked for Andrews years ago, said, you know, you're a golfer. He didn't know I was a professional at the office. He was like, oh, if you don't need an ACL. Like, what? He was just to rehab you knee a little bit, and just, you know, if you don't need to play other sports, you'll don't need an ACL. Like what? He was just to rehab your knee a little bit and just, you know, if you don't need to play other sports, you'll be fine without an ACL. So that gave me like a little sort of breath, like,

okay, I don't have to play here for, let's take three or four months off and see if I can play without my ACL. And I got to play in that year's Masters, you know, I kind of was limp it a little bit by my leg got strung. He said, by the way, he said, if you do your rehab, it'll make if you end up having surgery, it'll make that rehab better when you get out of surgery

because your leg will be strong. And I waited a couple of years to have the surgery. My right foot went numb and it still felt crappy. So I ended up having the surgery for quality of right foot went numb and it still felt crappy. So I ended up having a surgery for, you know, quality of life. Yeah, I like to ski. I like to play a lot of racquet, racquet sports. So I did it in 2005 and then I had to have it done again in 2007. I had a micro fracture on top of another ACL. So that's kind of when I lost, I was out for 11 months and I kind of liked being away. Then I had that transition from 47 to 50 where I was playing a little bit. No man's plan. No, it was no man's. TV opportunities were coming along. I got snuck into an event

by Tommy Roy at Houston Open on a Thursday Friday when nobody knew what was going on. I said this was kind of fun. Well, so from a competitive standpoint, did you feel like you were leaving anything on the table or were you okay with like, okay, now it's time to step back? I just always wonder what that mindset is like, does golf as a sport you can play for so long? And I can tell, see how much you still love golf. So that's why I'm just curious what that, what that, what that.

Yeah, so I exercise is like, it bugged me and I haven't seen an athlete that played well for a long time where it didn't bother them. Yeah, when they knew it was time, I mean, look at Tom Brady right now. He's struggling at 42. You know, what team am I gonna go to next when he's won six Super Bowls and played better than almost anybody

that's ever played the game. I was nowhere near that, but I, you'll always wonder, what would have happened if I didn't tear my sail? How long would I have been competitive? I won the tournament in Hartford at 2005 as a 44-year-old, maybe 45, because of after August. So, I was in good shape. I could still play, having that ability to chip and putt was great.

But it bugged me, you know, that I didn't. And even playing some senior Turgoff, I played well early out there and then got more involved with TV. It was still one of the few players out there that had a kid at home. And I played for so long. I think we got 708 career BJ players. So that is so, so, so long to be away from home. That's kind of where I'm all getting at.

We started talking about some about the champions tour and everything and what drives guys in this era where people have made money playing golf, keep being on the road so much. And it's just something that I think I kind of struggle with. And it's an interesting topic with, you know, Jim Furik, Ernie L's, Phil Mickelson kind of graduating into this potential champions tour era.

And I'm just curious as to how you handled that time period. And I don't know what the future of that is. Well, Chris, it's interesting. You're saying that now because I had Aiman Lynch on my show yesterday on the Just the Facts Radio show that I do. And Aiman had written the article I don't know if you saw it about Phil Mikkelson and what's up for Phil and how does that effect, does it affect the senior tour. And I said to, I don't know if it was Greg McLaughlin, eight, ten years ago, before I was out

there, I said, you know, you guys ought to think about moving this senior tour age to 55 because as players continue to work out as money continues to grow on the PGA tour, guys are going to be able to be competitive past their 50s. I mean, you see them guys being competitive on the PGA tour at 19 and 20 years old. What's going to say you can't keep them competitive when they're 50? Is it strain on their body? Is it the strain on travel, family, life, intruding, other business opportunities? But I don't think if I'm Phil Mikkelson, I hate to say this because this affects me as a player and as a friend to so many of these guys. I'd stay on the PGA tour. I'd go win your first US Open.

The guys that have straddled both tours, it doesn't work very well. Davis love VJ Singh. I admire the heck out of Bernard Langer. I don't know how he decided, because he was still competitive as a master champion British Open. He was competitive in, and he just took this dive into the Champions Tour and said, I'm going ahead first. I'm never going to play other events

other than the majors. Yeah. What did you know that you wanted to go into broadcasting for a long time? I mean, when did that interest start really getting drummed up and has it really didn't talk much about Fox or anything on the last episode and there's a lot of like pick your brain on with that.

But you know that was something you wanted to do. Two things to answer that question. When I first got my card, the PGA tour offered players some PR help from a woman named Andrea Kirby. She used to work for ESPN, and she interviewed all of us. Not many people showed up. I remember Tom Byram, John Cook, Mark Brooks. There were people that were already good on camera

and good on their feet. And it was a way she said to how to answer questions the right way. How, when a viewer is watching you, maybe this is going to help you, whether it's endorsement income, just your Q rating, whatever. And she asks questions, you know, there were say half a dozen of us at this table, and she had this one single camera, and she'd ask a question like,

what do you expect in your life on the PJ tour? It was a very open-up question. She said, I want a minute long answer. And I rambled on and on and on about what I expected, and I went and on and on. And she goes, congratulations, you just completed the longest sentence in the history of interviews. And I never stopped to talk. I never paused to beat. And then she showed us an interview of a hockey player sound off.

And she told us the body language made the most difference of anything when a player's given an interview. And you saw this guy. He had his talent on his deck, helmet helmet off in the locker room after a game. And you can see him answering the question, see the microphone. And she's after this 30 seconds and so she goes, what do you think just happened? And we're like, his baby just fell out of the crib and died.

Some of his family got dizzy. It was the worst. And she goes, no, he just scored a goal and triple overtime, Stanley Cup to win game seven. I'm like, wow. So that was like a precursor to like, okay, I know how to answer a question better because of this and how to act. And then when I was hurt in 2007, I had had my second ACL repair a micro factor. So I was in a kind of big sling sort of thing, crutches.

And Tommy Roy, who was running the Deutsche Bank, televised in the Deutsche Bank Championship for NBC, asked me as a player consultant to the newly renovated golf course up there with Gil Hans. Would you just come and sit next to Johnny and Dan for a segment? And that tournament ran, remember, Friday to Monday, it was Labor Day finished. And this was a, he asked me to do this on a Sunday. So it was a third round, and I thought he was going to give me a segment.

I stayed up there for two hours. And I didn't just talk about the golf course renovations. They were asking about players and shots. And he kind of said, hey, that was really awesome. Thanks for staying up. I'm like, oh, that was really awesome. You know, thanks for staying up. I'm like, oh, that was cool for me. It was fun to be up there.

And he gave me, I don't know, he wasn't trying to give me an opportunity to see if I was going to be good in television there, but sitting next to Dan Hicks is one of the best in the business in Johnny Miller, who was the best analyst golf's hat. It was kind of cool to me. And then I think that's where I kind of go. Maybe I could do this.

It's amazing some of the stories you hear about how small the opening window is and how something like that. Like Jason Bone is doing some stuff on TV this coming year. And I don't want to take all the credit for it, but like a lot of people didn't know about like how funny he and entertaining was. He was. And he came on our podcast last year.

And now he's doing some stuff with Sky and doing stuff with CB. Like, I haven't seen him TV yet. I can't wait to do it. He's doing, he's doing some stuff with CB. Yes, I think this year as well. Hope that information. So it's funny. You said that because Jeff Slumman's a great friend of mine.

He's just turned 60, played on the Champions. We're very successful. I had him made as many cuts as almost anybody. And he got asked to do an event for Tommy Roy. And you get thrown into the fire. Nobody gives you any instruction at all. And my one story about Tommy Roy giving me instructions is really funny, but Jeff was gonna be on course,

which is hard to do, because you get the back pet the head, so you can't see really what the viewers see, and you don't have a monitor. And he got fired after the first day. And I thought Jeff Sloman would be an unbelievable guy in TV Well, it's and you know We've we try to touch on this every time that we get an opportunity to talk to you guys like we don't people at home

Don't understand all the things that are going on before it gets turned to you like there's someone in your ear talking and You don't you don't have as long as you want to talk like you have a window You don't really know how long that window is gonna be at. And you got to talk and hey, you got to be insightful, entertaining. You got to have kind of the characteristics of speech that you're talking about right here and say the right thing. That's a lot to balance. I work critical of a lot of things in TV. It's never like, hey, I want to do that job because it looks really hard to me. Did I ever tell you on the first show about the first time I worked for NBC and the no shit story?

No, I have not heard of it. This is pretty good. And I was going to work for NBC in 2010. So I wasn't 50 yet for seven events, high profile events, the World Golf Championship, a players championship, the US Open, and some of the FedEx events. And I thought this was a great transition for me getting ready to turn 50. So my first events, the World Golf Championship in Dural which was a newly renovated Gille Hans course and it was one of those events where the players really didn't play much of a practice round. There's no pro-amp so

all of them showed up on Wednesday to play, You know, it was only 70 guys I feel. So I showed up Tuesday didn't see anybody. On their all day Wednesday, we go to production meeting Wednesday night. And I'm like, I'm in the outside tower. Now I didn't know that the farther your tarot was away from 18, the more you are lower on the Poptotum pole. And I was a peon. And I said to Tommy Roy afterwards, I said, okay, listen,

I don't know what I'm doing. I had four monitors in my tower on 14. I had the fourth of fifth, the 13th and the 14th. What am I supposed to do? So he's kind of like mad that I'm asking him. He takes out this scratch piece of paper. He writes down number one in pencil and writes no shit rule. I go, what's that mean? He goes, don't ever say anything on TV that's going to make the viewer go no shit. And I'm like, okay, so what do you mean by that? He goes, don't ever say anything on TV that's gonna make the viewer go no shit. And I'm like, okay, so what do you mean by that? He goes, well Frank Nobolo does this all the time. I go, what does he do?

He goes, well, he'll say, Ernie L's is sitting at Chip, he's chipped it, it's rolling, it's stopped. The picture shows you that. Don't ever say that, fair enough. And then he says a few other things, like you can't say Santa, happy, have to say bunker.

You can't say pin place, we have to say hole location. You can't say threesome, you have to say grouping. And he kind of goes through a couple of the USGA rules. He goes, you'll be fine, he passed me in the back. He kicks me out. So the next day, first day, it's golf channel. And novel is actually in the tower with Kelly Tillman.

And the first 10 minutes, they don't show a shot on any of my holes. So he says to me, Tommy Roy, we're coming out of break, he goes, okay, we're going to come back. You're going to say, while we're away, Ian Polter on number nine, that was the part three over the water. So I had five, nine, 13 and 14. So as he's counted, I hear this one woman's voice on my head, so I go, 30 back, and like that was a TV show or something right 30 back and then I heard 20 back and then at 15 Tommy Roy starts to count down he goes make sure you get the name

of the tournament where we are who's leading and give us a big welcome back and he says all this in the countdown of 15 so I'm like okay we're back to you. Poulter number nine I go big welcome back we're at the WGCCA championship, A& Polters T-Shot here on number nine. And he's going, make sure you stop talking before he hits. So he's saying all this stuff at once. So now this is on tape, and I had to say it was while we were away. So Polter hits his five iron, the balls in flight, and it lands like this, and I go a beautiful shot to three feet.

No shit, you can see that on TV. It's three feet. Now live Polter for Bernie. I shit, you can see that on TV. It's three feet. Now live, Polter for Bernie. I go, now live, Polter for Bernie. I was so messed up. And that's how I started. And I tell this a lot of corporate outings because people have no idea how hard it is.

And the funniest part was there's certain times when you're allowed to say that this is on tape and there's certain times where he plays like this is live. So on the 13th hole which is one of the most difficult part 3s on the tour, Robert Allenby was getting ready to hit his t-shirt and it was on tape I didn't know but I was playing as if it was live and I hadn't seen my monitor to see that this shot had already been hit. So he goes Allenby ti T shot 13, so I go, Robert Alambi here with his five wood, and I had this one nugget on the hole.

You always had to have a nugget. This is the least hit hole on tour and regulation. And the wind was blowing. You can see any well to the left here, allowing for the wind, well he hits this shot, lands on the green, goes in the hole for a one. And I go crazy,

and I'm like, oh my gosh. So then we go to break. And the whole team's like in my head, so I go, oh my god, you played it. Like you didn't know that sounded so good. And I'm like, I didn't want to say, I had no idea. That wasn't a lot. But I learned a lot.

And then Johnny Miller came in on the weekend with Dan Hicks. And it was fun. Is it really, really different? The atmosphere, the vibe and everything when doing it, like, let's say, US Open, Men's US Open for Fox. Like, is it, I think what, what it has helped Fox be so successful, one of the factors is that you're on the air for so long. And that's hard on the broadcasters and the production at times, but you guys are given

a lot more room to roam, I think. Is that fair to say? Yeah, I think it's really fair to say. And because it's only one PGA tour-like event with PGA tour players, the US Open, nobody expects, they're not looking for us, right? All of a sudden we show up and they go, oh, yeah. You guys are here again.

Bucks done countless super balls in world series and he loves golf. I mean, people don't equate Joe Bucks voice with golf sometimes, but he loves to play. I mean, we've gone out hit balls at night, underlights, off mats, sweating shirts on tuked, and have a ball. And he wants to be the best golf announcer, right? He's so driven. And he has people there that are helping him with statistics and stuff. I love being around him.

And he's been a guy that I can bounce some ideas off of. And like you said, Shane Bacon and I work as a team together. And if we're doing 10 or 12 hours live per day for every day, that's a lot of time for anybody beyond camera, but having Azinger be able to work next to Joe is worked. I think the two-man booths are better booths than the three-man booths

which we had for a long time. It's less complicated. And I got to give credit to Shane Bacon because he's out on tour more than anybody at the Fox team. He knows every player, he knows their quirks and I think he, first of all, he's a good looking guy with a great voice. That always helps him. That's not fluff. Thank you too much here. No, no, no, no, I'm kidding. He's very, very talented and I love seeing like how you guys work together, but I think just in

general to turn this around to start ploughing you here, I think your perspective for somebody that appreciates golf courses as much as you do, understands architecture, has obviously all the playing experience in major championships and years on the PGA tour, as well as your work with instruction. I think it's a very unique set of skills

to be able to bring to a broadcast where you are given some room to room was me tying a bunch of points in together there. And I think it goes back to our producer Mark Lumus. Yeah. Lumus worked for ABC in the 90s. He put Fowl to an A's in here together, which was, you know, if you thought about that, those two guys played against each other, Ryder Cup captain against each other. They weren't best of friends, but they made it work.

And in LumaSus, he's kind of low-key, but he's incredibly insightful and sharp. And the Fox technology, you've seen some of the things we've done with a picture and picture screen, the tracer, have more tracer cameras at the US Open at Pebble, which I thought was one of the best US Open's you could ever watch, not just because Gary Woodland and his great finish, but that drone cameras from the sea over the country.

We had, I think Nancy even commented when he came on our set, we had 80 something cameras that week, and Nancy was shaking his head, because when we do this AT&T at CBS, we have eight cameras for the entire week and we had 80 plus for, you know, one course. It did show. It did show. And then the 4K or the 4D technology is beautiful.

Well, I said this to Jeff Newbarth actually, when he was on the podcast last year, but it was right after the US Open. I've been to number seven. I've played number seven at Pebble Beach. I've been there multiple times. I never understood how far downhill it was until I saw the drone shot from off the cliff. And I was just like, whoa. And that's where, and I feel like you could suggest this to Luma's and what happened.

Camera angles and golf can make such a big difference on your appreciation for what players are going through. And I understand you have to have certain cameras in certain spots to cover the whole tournament, but there was a putt that was shown on NBC of Tiger on the front of the green and roll Melbourne that it was a replay and it was just from far away, but it was very zoomed in.

You could see the depth of the green and the challenge that he was handling. I'm like, wow, some different looks in golf would help so much with viewing. Even if it's, I don't have to be every single shot, I'm not saying completely flip the golf coverage upside down, but some different looks seems like something that Fox is willing to embrace.

And that's kind of what I'm getting at is like, you guys gonna pop in for, it's not once a year, you do other, obviously you cover the US women's open, you cover a lot of amateur golf, but it seems like you guys are willing to try pretty much anything. Well, I think the fact that we only do one golf event a year might help. Yeah, because they're willing to experiment, obviously they're strong and football and baseball.

So, they're not used to doing the same thing over and over again. And for us, the venues at a different place every time, so you have to be unique to the venue. And there's really no place quite like Pebble Beach and when you have some sun there and the cliffs. And that's what I think a lot of the flack that Foxes caught one first year being, first year was tough, but it was a brand new venue. It was very different for people to appreciate and get to, it was not very intimate to the viewer. And same two years later with Aaron Hills like there's just a lot of variables and an unfamiliar venue. I mean I think the the US opens that have gone the best.

Shinnecock for the coverage wise was amazing. Pebble was amazing and then going back to Wingfoot. It all has a consistent through line to it. Wingfoot will be amazing because this first of all, it's Winged Foot. There's been some beautiful renovation there. Again, Hans has done some work removing a lot of trees, changed some fairway lines. And Mark Lumis, our producer, is a member there. And he, I don't know if you knew this or not, Lumis was the standard bear in 1984 walking in the last group with Fuzzy's Aller.

No way. Yeah, so he was there when Norman made that big putt across the green that Fuzzy thought was for birdie. It was for par. Fuzzy waved the towel and you can see the pictures. Lumus is standing right there with his little bowl cut and that's great. Next to Fuzzy.

So that's going to make it in the broadcast. Yeah, oh yeah, we will definitely. You got the time for it. Yeah. Well, let's let the viewers infer Wingfoot. Why is, you know, that people that haven't seen it since 06, what is going to look different about it? You made, I'm not sure how many trips you've made up there

if you've been up there recently. But what should we look for with this coming US Open? Well, we did the US Amateur 4 ball there, actually, on the other course. There's the East and the West courses there. And they play both courses, maybe in the qualifier. But we, first of all, I expect this to be a monster. I expect to be no mercy out there. I think the course is going to be what a lot of players, former players, especially like Curtis Stranger works

for us at Fox, they want this to be slugfest. They want you to have to hit the fairway. The rough is coming back. Rough is some USO picks that have not had thick rough and it's coming back this year. If par was always something that was respected at USO and I think you would take par and run here and the variable there is this is going to rain. If it's wet, that always makes it, whether it's a 7,800 yard course or not,

the wet always makes it easier for players. But I think this is going to be a course where the good player is going to have to hit six seven drivers. If you don't hit it in the fair way, you're not going to have a good chance to get it on the greens. And there's been war stories about wing foot going back to Billy Casper in the third hole of the par three there where he laid up short of the green just because he didn't want to make anything worse than a four because if you start hitting across you can play ping-pong and it's been you know one of those every hole there looks like a U.S. open hole where there's a lot of straight holes and you can see I think what makes a

course really intimidating really people don't talk about this a lot is color change so when you see the fairway cut and that might be a lighter green color and then you see the distinct first cut and then the thick, right dark green and you're going oh my gosh. And it makes it look even narrower than it is. Well, it looks a lot different now to I had to be honest I never saw wing foot before they took all the trees out but I was up there two years ago or something. And it looks a lot different now with the trees out and the fairways still narrow. So there's a ton of rough that your eyes will see when you stand up on the tee box.

Is that kind of what you're getting at there? Definitely. And what happens in those situations, I think players will tend to drive better, whether the fairways, if the fairways say 23 or 4 yards across, which would be a typical width for a U.S. open fairway, when there's trees, Medina, maybe, old Medina, old Ockmont, I thought players would drive it better when there were trees there because it gave you a picture. And now when it's more, when there's less corridors, now you can shape it anyway you want. I think it becomes harder. I think players like the whole to tell them what to do. Yeah. Rather than have to decide what to do.

You can definitely see that. Well, I need to, I don't know how much longer of your time we have, and I know we need to get to this story. We talked about it right after we stopped recording last time. You told a great story that involved the bathroom in on the first time. You won another bathroom story. I got out of it. You claimed you had a really good, you told me a really good one and it's maybe my life goal to have tell it on the podcast. About the construction site. Oh no, that's a different one. This is in a former life. The Greater Greensboro Open, the GGO, my first wife, X-Wife, lived in a little town in North Carolina called Arcadia.

And from Arcadia to Fairway Oaks in Greensboro, it was about a 45 to 50 minute drive. And this is way before GPS and my father-in-law at the time loved maps. And he had those spiral notebook maps that were segregated by towns, so they were really dense with roads. And he would show me on this map how to get through these little country roads the whole way quick as, because he was kind of a sales guy, repair guy, and he would be on these roads all the time. And he found a way to get me there, like two minutes quicker

with no traffic lights and bouncing between highways and town roads. And I actually started enjoying it. But I think I may be told you in the first story that I always had an active stomach, right? You can call it whatever you want. But breakfast time, when I had to go somewhere in the morning, I made a lot of pit stops on the way. And this one particular day I had white pants on. What are you laughing at? And they were those light pants that you have to have white underwear because you're going to see the underwear, right? So I'm driving there and then I got that little tug or whatever it

is and I'm like, oh boy, I need a place to go. And I'm in the middle of places where there's you know, if there were cell phones there wouldn't have been reception and I'm like there's no bathroom around here and there's no way to like if there were cell phones, there wouldn't have been reception. And I'm like, there's no bathroom around here. And there's no way to like, hope you're gonna run into a gas station. And I was zippin' by this one house that had like a chain link fence around it and inside the chain link fence was support-alette

because the house was under construction or something. And it was an older house. It wasn't like, it was a new house or the new portalette. This was like one of those ones you kind of had to put a pair of pliers on your nose when you went in there. And as I pulled over my car to the side of the road, and there wasn't even a place to park on the side of the road because they all dropped off into where there was drainage. And I left it running and I think, I got a jump over this fence and I'm climbing up there. You know, there's poles and then really at the top of chain link fences,

they're usually snug. This thing was loose, so it was really a hard fence to, it was tall. So I'm jumping over it and I thought I was pretty agile. I'm sure a lot of people laugh at that. And as I'm going over, the pole starts swinging a little and I catch the top of the chain link and it rips my pants from knee to crotch.

It was 8-10 inches long and I didn't care because it was coming out. I've been running over to this bathroom. I didn't have time to check if there were toilet paper rolls in there and I'm like, thank God, it was like a little bit and I was in there for a little while and now I'm looking down, I'm going, I got to go to the golf course, I'm tee it off in an hour. I have, what am I going to do? So no cell phone, whatever it just was. And I get to the course and the only thing I had was like rain gear.

So I had to take my white pants off, put on rain gear, you know, it was perfect. It was 85 degrees and sunny and everybody was like, what are you doing? And then so the whole world knew I stopped to go to the bathroom, rip my pants. And it's one of many stories that I have. Well, as we say, what was the one that came straight to your mind when I was bringing that to the topic? Oh, the Buick open.

This was an amazing story. I didn't know it at the time, but I had an analogy to kind of like wheat gluten and dairy. And the guy that I used to stay with at the Biogoblin was the tennis pro there at Warrow Hills and he lived out at Lake Fenton and his favorite thing was beer and pizza. And that's what we see in the every night. And he lived in this lake where you could waterscape beer pizza, beer pizza. So I have, obviously, early Thursday, morning, T-time is a 20, 20 minute ride. I'm like, oh my God, I don't feel very good. I had to stop two times on the way from his house

to the court to course, and then get to the course I'm playing. I think I was playing with Andy North, and I was full-fledged, diarrhea. I was losing it, and I'm like, I don't know if I'm going to get to play. I tee off on number 10 and go sprinting back and on the clubhouse, come running out to hit my second shot, get on the 11th tee, hit my tee shot run to another portlet.

I went seven times on the front nine shot. I think I shot 29. I think I was just... You did tell this one on the first podcast, but I love here yet even again. No, and I was taking some med, some low modal or whatever that Emodeum, I was piloting in there. I don't think I'm with the bathroom for two months afterwards. But I did have a doctor tell me, well, you know why you won that

tournament, don't you? Because I ended up winning the tournament. Oh, yes, that part. Oh, wow. I shot 65 the first round. And everybody's shaking head laugh in my group. And it probably had pizza and beer the rest of the week. But the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, He's five the first round and everybody's shaking head laugh in my group and probably at Pete's in beer the rest of the week.

This one doctor was friends with Tom Kite, Ernie Katsuyama. He said, well, you know, when you take a little modal or a modium or whatever, the stronger drug, it's like a beta block. It just relaxes you and that's why you won. And I got insulted by that. I'm like, come and give me a little credit. I just relaxes you, and that's why you won. And I got insulted by that. I go, come and give me a little credit. I didn't have diarrhea all four days.

But everybody like at the Masters used to laugh at me, because part of my pre-game prep was hit balls on the range, go to putt, run into the men's room, and come out, and then go right to the first tee. I was the one that paid for the tee on the men's room on five. Were you a better afternoon player than morning player? Oh, I can see the ass still am. I'm kind of the same way.

I can see where you're coming from there. On that note, I want to talk about the women. Women don't listen to this podcast. No, no, it's just, we're about 4% women. Good. What Augusta, you mentioned it there, you played in the Masters many, many times. You heard the latest Rory McRoy, Jerry Mc McRoy sorry about the masters with me I'm not

sure I have so I was playing at Seminole with Mark Luma's who's a member there and Jerry McRoy and Aiman Lynch and you know Jerry was one of the guys that tried to get Rory to talk to me about putting a couple years ago and Jerry's a good player he's a couple years older than I am and would you say he's a great player in his own right? Yes, that's what broadcasters say about it. In his own minds too. But no, he hates losing money, but he asked me on about the 13th hole,

the great part three up the hill towards the ocean. Brad, have you ever played in the Masters? And I think he knew immediately when he said it that he should have said how many Masters did you play in? And then, Aiman was bust of my balls of my show yesterday because he loved the fact that he saw pain in my face. For like this guy didn't know. For just that one second, and I said, well, I did.

I played in 12 of them. So it was funny. A month later, Brandyl Shamley, Brett Quigley, Aiman was out there, and who was Cateon. We're at the tour school, and Brandel saw the, heard the story, and they made a video, Paul Stankowski was in the video, so hey, Brad, we're out at tour school.

Did you ever play any masters? So I got the video I laughed, and I was in Dallas for some reason, DFW changed in planes, and I got the iPhone, and I'm kind of doing a Tom Brady walking, doing your video, Daniel, tell me that. And I said, well, hey guys, thanks for the call. I did, I did play in 12 masters.

I don't know how, I never had to go to tour school though. So I sent that back at him, which was pretty funny. Well, what did you see throughout the course of your career? How much that golf course changed from the early 90s into the 2000s? I guess I think you did you play the masters at all in the 80s when was your first? No, no, I first was 92. I played the course maybe once in the 80s, but when I was watching the Masters, I loved watching Sevy Player. I mean, he watched Jack. I thought, you know, I was just starting to watch golf in mid 70s and 75, in particular,

but then watching Sevy and Tom Watson kind of dominate for their few years. I loved the fact that there were no trees and there was no rough and you could angles were important then and the distance of all went was significantly less. The way Bacchensia designed the course, there was certainly a strategy for every hole and every hole location. So every day each hole was important it was important where you were, you had to think backwards when you played there.

As, I, singly, I understand, you know, in 97 when Tiger Airmail did over the bunkers on 18 to give himself a little pit shot, the world changed that really, that pre-provy one, the, we, the Masters Committee has to do something to protect the golf, protect the field. But you kind of remember, if you think about Augusta National, and even then, if the course

were 7,000 or 7,100 yards, how many of those holes were severely downhill, a couple of the Part Vs, think about how much downhill number 2 is, how much downhill, 15 second shot was downhill, obviously 10, 9, you know, you're getting an extra 50, 60 yards. So those four holes played 200 yards less than if they were flat. And there weren't many holes like a team that were back up a hill. So even though the course might have presented itself

on the card at 7,100, it played significantly less than that. So I think that if McKenzie came back and Jones came back and saw what's evolved, it looks a lot like a US Open Course with the addition of the trees and the fairways. And even though the grass isn't long and the rough, it makes it much more different shot because you're not spinning a ball out of that rough. You have to allow for roll. Yeah, and you rarely have a clear shot from the taller grab, the second cut, if you will, because the second cut's really just under a lot of the trees.

Almost every hole. Yeah. And you could say, yes, you're correct on one, you're correct on two with that. If you hit it to the right on three, that tree's sneaking under you. There's a lot of holes where that's seven for sure. And you see a lot of guys where that's seven for sure. And you see a lot of guys that when they hit it and they're kind of almost hitting the left on it,

punching around, trying to curve the ball. Yeah, so the rough has made a factor and more difficult approaches, but it also saves some balls, left on 10, it won't roll all the way down the hill, it'll make pitching a little bit easier. Seeing the timeframe of your career playing through that, just how much it had changed.

I thought you might, basically the points you're making there. And I'm transitioning that into talking about what we saw from Royal Melbourne at the President's Cup. I'm not sure how much of that you got to watch. But I kind of struggled with the concepts you're talking about there, about what Tiger did at 97 and how that had to change everything. I feel like Royal Melbourne never really responded to the distance,

the, you know, the, what happened with distance. And it holds up still so, so well today. I mean, it was unbelievable watching the Presidents Cup at that and how much, you know, even a casual fan could learn within like 30 minutes of watching, like, oh, you don't need to crush it on this course. Like that for very first hole hole the further you hit it sometimes the worst spot you were into and I'm just I'm just wondering of like how golf works and that the response to the ball going really far was to make

every hole way longer they were almost better off making keeping it on the short little playgrounds and figuring out ways to challenge guys with the firmness of slopes and how balls roll out and played. It's funny you say that when I was in school at Ferman University which was not a great men's golf program but it was we had a good course on campus and one of the things our coach tried to do to help our players with confidence was have us play one of the qualifiers from the forward teams. Back then we were allowed to say women's teas, but we would never shoot lower from the forward teas

because all of a sudden there was a strategy that we didn't, you know, it wasn't just take the head cover or a friend bash it down there. And if you go play some of the great courses down here, particularly in Palm Beach Everglades, which is an old Seth Reiner course, maybe on 75 acres, maybe, and maybe 6,100 yards.

Holy smokes, does that make you think your way around a golf course? And I agree with you 100 percent, so that there's, today there's got to be the blend of a holes that make you make a decision on the tee immediately, whether it's going to be a driver or not, and what, how close do you want to get? And if you go back to the 1995 US Amateur at Newport Country Club in Rhode Island where the senior US Open is gonna be this year, they don't use irrigation on their fairways only on teasing greens. And this particular year when Tiger Beat Buddy Marucci in the final, Billy Harmon was the

head professional then. And he said it was remarkable to watch some of these holes that were 320 or 30 yards watching players from 50 yards not be able to hit a shot and keep it on the green. And Royal Melbourne has withstood the test of time not only because of its architecture and severe greens around the greens with that bunkering and the Australian bunkering that they have. If you're playing those shots from the wrong spot in the fairway because of the firmness of the greens, you struggle, and I think that's lost a little bit. And if you do miss fairways at Royal Melbourne, there's no guarantee that you're going

to get a good life. No, not at all. I mean, some of the rough there was very bare. I mean, it was kind of more native area than it was rough. And you could hit recovery shots, but like, holy crap, you did not want to be up the left in the rough on that very first hole. I mean, just watching that first hole was just a spectacle. And what I think, and I've not, you know, this is, I hate even using this phrase, but what I think McKenzie and Jones were after with Augusta was like, what we just saw at

Role Melbourne. And that's almost 100 years after Augusta. It was like what we just saw at Roel Melbourne. And that's almost 100 years after Augusta came out. So that's why a lot of people think that golf can't be like it was at Roel Melbourne. And Roel Melbourne is so, so rare. But I just wonder if Augusta decided it had two paths to go down. And they went down this one that I think makes it less interesting to watch. It's still, of course, the greatest tournament in the world. There is.

The Masters was always my favorite tournament to play because you had to be so creative with your shots. I think the fact that you play, watch that on TV, the same course every time, the same time of year. It's in it, it can play firm and fast. and that's when the scores are the highest or the worst. At Royal Melbourne, it was such a compelling event to watch. I think Ernie L's comes away even though he was the losing, he's the losing, but he won a lot there.

His stature improved. His team, which is harder to organize because it's international. He's way down in the depth of field with talent on paper. But to have Sunday and Averyam answer, these guys really answer a bell to come out, come together and give that star-studded team the US had, a real challenge was it was great golf. And boy, could we use some of that every week? Golf, my God, yeah. What just to kind of touch on a recent current event that we have talked at great length

in this podcast on, but I think people are sick of hearing us talk about it. We want to hear from a professional golfer what you thought of the way this Patrick Reed situation has played out over the last couple of months. I think it's really, it's bad for the game. It's certainly bad for Patrick. He's an incredible talent. It's a master's champion obviously.

What's fun to watch Patrick hit shots. He can cut a shot off. He can curve the ball both directions. But there's a lot of selfishness in him. And you know, troubles followed him around in his career in the two colleges that he went to postmasters when there were the incidents with other players, the sadness that he doesn't have a relationship with his family.

It's remarkable to me that he kind of got away with something that every single player, the first thing you know and the first thing you learn about this great game is you play the ball as it lies. Unless there's clear cut, we're playing the ball up because it's reigned or conditions don't allow the ball to be played down. It's in every single player's head, you play the ball as it lies. And there can be confusion when you have waystereas versus bunkers, but we know, everyone knows that you're not allowed to do that. Everyone, there's no exception, there's no player, including Patrick Reed, that didn't know that you can't do that.

The video's resurfaced of a shot that he played similarly to that prior, you know, a couple years before. And, you know, the tour doesn't want to have controversy. They don't want to have slug or white have to go and talk about, here's a player that willingly disobeyed a rule. So, you know, and everybody's trying to avoid the seaworth, aren't they? And I know, even Jay Monahan, who's a close friend and a fantastic man, he's warned people about saying Patrick Reed cheated. There has to be intent in order to accuse somebody, call somebody to be in a cheater.

I don't know how you can watch that video and say he didn't know what he was doing, because he didn't know it once. He did it twice. Clearly created an easier path to the ball from the club. Dubai for one second that he couldn't feel the sand under that club. Not for one second. I don't. I don't, it'll be interesting to see how does Patrick go a year because one of the spectators

shouted out, cheater just recently at the century at the tournament champions. A couple of with the smallest crowd he's going to face all year long. So at least hostile. Well, to that point, but I think, you know, I've tried super hard to flip 180 degrees and see if no side to like how could I not consider this cheating and what we just said there is what makes such a difference in that he came off the course

and said that he didn't know that he touched the sand on the way back, which to me like is a lie. Like I don't know what you just said, how good players touches and all these things. There's no possible way you couldn't have felt that. That right there takes it to an intent, in my mind, of saying, if he came in and said, I had no idea that I touched the sand, I've been like, okay, maybe, I guess I'm saying that wrong because you know. But I know what you're saying because if you look at the speed at which

you made those backswings, there was more speed than you would take to make that normal swing. And you see players make rehearsals when they're over the ball in the bunker. Obviously, you're not supposed to ground your club. And that wasn't a bunker. So that was an area that you could have rounded your club on, but you can't sweep away the sand to improve your line. It would have been like being in the woods and making backswings to get leaves and branches out of your way. We know you can't do that. You can't improve your intended line or stance or your swing. And clearly all those happen.

Yeah. And I think by the letter of the law of the code of conduct, they have to crack down on Cam Smith, who did use the C words and the players and all out to say disparaging things about other players, but it is just like, just step after step feels like they're going out of their way to defend him on this. And it's a weird hill to bail on. I don't don't understand it. In your day and age, if this happened with another player, is there anything that other players are doing saying to that player about this happening? Is he shunned in the locker room?

How would you see this playing out in your day? Well, definitely shunned in the locker room. And I think the irony of all this is, as Reed was on that plane, the private plane that was going to the president's cup from a hero from Tiger's event where it happened. And the players had to, you know, have them as a teammate.

So they couldn't say whatever they wanted to say publicly. They had to live with it. Justin Thomas kind of played a little prank immediately and smiled about it. So I think if you had everybody in a closed room where the word wasn't going to get out, I think the opinions would change, which is, yeah. I just, the fact that the tour has taken no action on it, I think, and we've said this too, it's like the court of public opinion is going to be the ruler. Well, I would say this because I know I could get in trouble too, but I wish more people

would put the onus on Patrick and not on Cam Smith. Oh my God, yeah. That's like the whole point is what we kind of say. I can defend Cam Smith's thinking and saying that I can't defend Patrick really what he did. And Smith has got more, almost more of a crack down than that. Right.

What do you think appropriate punishment would have been in this situation? Well, this is where it becomes really a difficult situation because, like you said, like I said, the rule that we know is you play the ball as it lies in this game. And the other thing is what's the integrity of this game is a really important part of it is that we're always around to guard the game and guard the rules for others. And if I see a rule violation, I'm supposed to report that or I can get penalized.

And it can happen, but it's tough to, you know, to want a willingly turn in an opponent, and you're supposed to protect the field. So it's a tough situation. It's a sad situation that happened. And if it happens a couple times, you know, there's got to be some action. And I would say that him willingly doing something that is conduct unbecoming. Yeah, definitely. All right, we're going to wrap it at that. Then we can just, we got to save some things for part three, four, five, six, and seven.

I love it. Whenever you come back. So, but thank you so much for your time. You're the best Chris. That's love it. Whenever you come back. But thank you so much for your time. You're the best Chris. Enjoy the best. Thank you so much. So, thanks, Brett. It's getting right to the club. Be the right club today.

Yes. That is better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most. Better than most. Better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most.