No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 279: AT&T Recap with Kevin Van Valkenburg

Episode Date: February 10, 2020

Kevin Van Valkenburg from ESPN The Magazine and ESPN.com joins to chat about Nick Taylor's win at the AT&T, Phil, Spieth, the Vic Open, Bryson, and a bunch more. We also dive deep into the USGA + R&A's recent distance report (36:40), the key elements of it, what it means for the future of golf, why it took so long, and why it matters. Thanks a ton to KVV for the time as always.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yes! That is better than most. I'm not in. That is better than most. Better than most. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No-Lang Up Podcast. DJ and Tron are out on the West Coast. Big Randy, I believe, is back in Ohio. Neil has gone back to Brooklyn.

The snow bird has gone back north, although it's probably pretty snowy still up there. So I'm joined by our trusted friend from ESPN, the magazine, and ESPN.com, Mr. Kevin Van Volkenberg. Thank you for being here on a Sunday night. Chris, good morning! Yeah. So excited. It is morning in the UK, so yeah, that works. I'm so excited to continue my role as the fifth beetle here. The sixth beetle, or whatever it is now.

Something like that. How much golf did you get to watch this week? It's a little bit here and there. Bunch on Saturday, a little bit today. So I feel, I felt like it was enough, you know, and when you don't want to watch too much of the program, lest you take a driver and bounce it off your head, an frustration, but you know, for you, probably someone who watched a lot of it,

I'm excited to hear your thoughts as well. Hey, guess what I did this weekend? I watched way too much golf, but I'm ready to bang a driver off my head. Just to give a quick run of show, we're gonna talk AT&T, we're gonna talk Vic Open and then the back half of this, we're gonna talk in great length about the recent distance report from the USGA

and then a couple other grab bag things here at the end, but not to put the cart in front of the horse. I'm not going to go straight to Phil. We're going to mention who won the golf tournament of course first. Nick Taylor, a sincerely impressive performance. Conditions got really, really, really tough on the back nine today. Had a very big scare, played a stretch of holes in four over par. He was up by five and that lead shrunk all the way down to two. But he shot, like it looked ugly, but he shot 69 today, 200 in crazy tough conditions. So hats off to him. Congratulations. First, wire to wire, Canadian winner on the PGA Tours in his

1960. I don't know what that means, but that's a stat apparently. It means Canadians can be real proud of someone other than Mike Weir. So there you go. They have that. I gotta say I love Canadians. My grandfather basically grew up in Canada. He's spent like most of his youth in Montreal. So I have like special kinship for him. But Canadians are so proud of Canadian athletes. Like we joke about this sometimes with our buddy Sarsson. And Canadians like like he was starting to say now how his dad is just always really like, well, how'd Mike weird do? You know, how, you know, how's Gratsky doing? You know, that kind of thing.

It's like Canadians love Canadians. You got to respect it. There's no country that rides harder for their countrymen than Canadians. I just literally just did a hit on the Canadian television show because they wanted to talk Nick Taylor at 830 on a Sunday night. And they could tell us what you know about Nick Taylor.

I was like, oh, man. I don't know if I'm here for that, which to be honest, I swear this is gonna be all a coverage thing. I didn't really learn a whole lot about Nick Taylor today for watching him for five and a half hours on television. I was listening to the live radio feed of much of the day, and I was checking out stuff on my phone.

And it wasn't until literally on the 17th hole where they were talking about, oh, Nick Taylor, you know, when he was here last year, he posted a picture on Instagram of, you know, his wife was expecting at the US Open. And now they have a kid and they're here, and I was like, oh, that would have been like, fun to know on the second hole. Basically heater. I was like, oh, that would have been like fun to like know on like the second hole.

Like it basically like Nick Taylor was a blank canvas, which to sort of, you know, throughout the day to not really have anything to say about. So that would have been at least something. Nick Taylor, new father. I know he can teach his kid how to play Mario Kart. Because it's apparently really good at Mario Kart. It's the other thing I know about. Yeah, that's going to be now the thing is the Mario Kart, which I have a feeling.

Uh, soft shank spinner wrote in. He said that the Nick Taylor plays out of a public golf course in British Columbia. That is the hardest damn greens you'll ever see. He has three or four 59s. And Adam Hadamon's dad is the pro there. So if they mentioned that on the broadcast, I glossed everything basically. They say kind of just because just glosses right over me. So I apologize if I missed that, but that's kind of a cool little cool little nugget to know about about him. But in a like someone probably should have had like some poor intern like scrambling and checking doing whatever he could to like figure out some tidbits about Nick Taylor, but you know, it's possible

that that doesn't happen at CBS that they just sort of check the Wikipedia page, which I imagine is not very extensive in Nick Taylor's case. It is not, because that's exactly what I did. But anyways, here's a dog's butthole here on the beach. Let's uh, we'll be right back. My kids when we were watching it, it was very excited to see the sea otters. So I know that's maybe the target demo of the... There you go.

Ten year old girl. Yeah, I don't look a see-honor. I fully admit that there is probably a big, on large amount of people that enjoy the AT&T Pebble Beach Pro Am watching it on television every week. I think it's also fair to say, not a lot of those people are the ones tuning into this podcast.

So I get it, I get why they do it, I just hate it. So that's just pretty much where we net out. I know it's what's gonna they do it, I just hate it. So that's just pretty much it. Where we net out, I know it's what's gonna happen and I still need to watch it because this is my job and I don't have to hate it any less because I can't. I kind of wonder how much that is, I mean, I'm sure that's what CBS would say, is like, oh, you guys are the, you know,

the elitist sort of snotty 2%. But I kind of wonder like anymore, is it one of those sort of old relics that's basically like, there's just no public information about like how much people kind of are tired of the whole thing? I mean, I do, I keep, I always try to keep in mind, I think it's DJ's take where he was like, you know, when you're there,

it's actually like fun. It's actually you buy into the sort of campiness of it and Bill Murray doing the same kind of jokes that he's been doing for 20 years and like on the ground, like great event, but as a broadcast thing, like horrendous. And I wonder if that's true at large, like if we're really actually in the minority

or if there's a lot of really people who are like, man, this is pretty tired. I mean, I was making a joke about it on Twitter about how, oh, man, this is like what it would be like if during the NBA season, there were an actual NBA jams, like rock and jock thing that counted towards the standings, whatever. And I think Joel Beale was making a joke of like, man, this event wishes it had the celebrities that MTV had back in the day. And it's true. Other than Bill Murray, you're really starting to scrape the bottom of the

barrel if Timberlake's not there and you're getting, this is a lot of B-level celebrities. When Ray Romano was in it, this year I was like, oh, Ray Romano is probably relevant because I just watched the Irishman and he's plays a big role in that. All of a sudden, Ray Romano's celebrity is relevant again, but we were joking about Gary Mulder, but he was a big part of the broadcast for a long time. I don't know, Gary Mulder's 80 years old, I looked it up.

I don't know if he was actually in this event, but if he was, I wouldn't be surprised. It wouldn't be like, oh yeah, that doesn't make any sense. I mean, yeah, Gary Mildere is definitely in here. I'm going to ask you a question that's just going to blow your mind about all this, okay? Please do. I am going to concede the point that showing some of the celebrities makes sense.

It makes sense. Why in the world would any of that need to be live? Like why would you need to be? If you don't know what's going to happen with? Like, why would you need to be, if you don't know what's gonna happen with an AM, why would you need to show it live? Like, hey, yeah, if it's a beautiful shank, like tape that and then bring it. Roll it right in, is with like a segment that shows

who's here, what's going on around here. Like that segment they did on Macklemore, on 17, you took about, about 98 seconds standing over the ball and then top it about 30 feet. Which if you're going to do that, you've got to laugh at him. If you're going to play this entertainment factor of it, let us make fun of the guy, I don't know. Oh absolutely.

There's just no reason. Again, separating out the celebrities versus the board member of the Pebble Beach Company and the CEO of blah, blah, blah. And they actually literally, Lance, like, sits with a yellow legal pad that has names on it. And he goes through and crosses people off as they show them on TV. That's their goal for the day, we own Saturday, which, again, I don't know why I watch it. I don't know why.

I should say, I know why I watch it. I don't know why I should say I know why I watch it I don't know why anybody listening would watch that but I just think it's it's got to be a relic of an older time Like it used to be maybe sort of like oh, man like we get to see this fun event We're like sure people you know golf with like the pros and stuff and now I just think like it's like one of those things that Represents how golf is sort of behind the times in so many ways, where it's like nobody is really clamoring other than Bill Murray for any of this stuff. Like it's just, there's no huge like

Mackelmore Ray Romano contingent out there that's like, oh gosh, I gotta see, you know. Yes, I mean, I could see like, it's mildly interesting if the Manning Brothers are involved in whatever, because they're famous in a way that sort of transcends Sports but man just like I like that part show me the Eli and Peyton. I asked show me some Steve young like I'm fine with that

I think there's a balance to be had. I just don't know if they're really meeting that balance I mean, I guess I get the I get why they would show like the FedEx chairman whatever is FedEx is paying Sure, yeah, I think money whatever but like you know golf digest Jerry Tarty like why is that relevant to me at all? Like I just do not care. Yeah, I'm then all due respect to Jeremy's a fine player like I hear this story Multiple times on several broadcasts, but I played went all through Scotland trip in one ball Why is a viewer that is interesting to me, I don't know. I can help you there, it's not. Can we talk about, I really thought that, you know,

how many times have we seen it for Phil, that, you know, coming back after crossing the Red Sea, that he's just ready to roll in the West Coast swing? I thought it was gonna be his time. He's, he's, he's, it seemed a little bit sundrained there at the end of the uh... the restorative week that he spent in the kingdom didn't quite uh... get get into the cross the finish line i forty nine years old four straight

weeks and including a trip to saudi arabia i guess impressive performance considering all those factors heat look all due respect to him he's maybe one of the most interesting athletes of my entire life and i have gone

like through various periods where i love them and various periods where i thought like man i i'm a little bit weary of this uh... routine i can't is still like always interesting you know you know you know you know literally he's missing greens today by forty yards on some shots. It's just like what are you doing? Any good? No.

No. Behind poor parties and such. You know, it's just I don't it's so amazing that he is still this kind of vaudevillian character who's just, you know, constantly hustling and gambling and almost went to prison a few years ago. And it just lived this amazing American life and continues to, he knows exactly how to feed the media just enough to sort of buy it to his stick every week. And so, hey man, I thought it was totally insane and a total vanity play. This whole, like, just swing it, the shit out of the ball every time.

And it was like, oh, this is like guy who's really struggling in the fact that he's getting older. And it's a vanity thing that makes him feel like I can still drive it really far. And it's awesome. And it basically ruined the rest of this game. But you know, he's now suddenly sort of figured out, like, he's finished second and finished third this week and probably back inside the top 50 or close to it. So he'll get into the WGC and get into match play and maybe that'll get him into the open. You won't have to take the thing.

So I'm not going to take it anyway. into the US open. I will say before we sort of like move on from Nick Taylor and that when he's chipped in and basically like snatched Phil's soul out of his body, like that was a pretty big stone's movement. Yeah. And moment right there because if he hits that 10 feet by and Phil makes a puddle whatever and all of a sudden it's down to one or they're tied like maybe totally different ball game. But as it was like all of a sudden he chips that in and feel like

his hangs his head and then he ends up winning by four and it's like you realize like oh you mean Phil wasn't going to close by hitting two out of the last twelve greens. Oh my god. That wasn't going to be a productive way to finish this out. Well I kind of pointed out I made that joke on Twitter about like he's probably worn out he's losing steam here and he made that putt, after that ridiculous up and down on 13, I think it was. Everyone's like, oh, hmm, do I delete that one?

I'm like, no, dude, the guy can't find a club face right now. I don't think he's gonna win this. People think that, and we're gonna hear a lot about this if he does get into Wingfoot, that like, he really blew it at Wingfoot or whatever. And yeah, like, he stood on the 72nd tee, you know, with the one-stroke lead. So he can certainly have some regrets about that was he was so open. But I've always felt that like Marion was a much worse sort of collapse

because he actually played like okay that day. And he was probably like just needed to play a little bit better. Whereas at Wingfoot, he played like garbage all Sunday. He had two of 14 fairways on the fucking Sunday of the US Open and was still somehow like wobbling to the 18th tee with a one stroke lead. Like he had no business being in that tournament and was just like short gaming as but off.

And so like I always felt like that was sort of an inevitable collapse. Like there was almost no way that he was gonna ride that pony into the into the whole you know station But whereas Marion like he just was he was there He was there. He was there. He was actually like made that eagle and he just needed to play a little bit better And he just kept making like kind of dumb mental errors as opposed to like he couldn't find the face That shot on 13. I still think about how going long on that with like a gap wedge or whatever that was.

But yeah, I think either he has said this or he would say it that, you know, he considers Mary in the biggest sting because like wing foot that day, he just didn't have it, you know, and he didn't have it before the round and knew going into the round that he just didn't have it. And it was a miracle that he was that close. But, you know, I definitely haven't written, fill off at any point. I think the future of his, I think I made the comment on recent positive.

It might be gone. And you know, some people were kind of coming around this week and I'm like, oh, looks like it's not gone. It's like, well, I mean, he won this event last year and nothing happened after that. So he really is a horse for course for this event. I know there's three courses, but like he thrives in this event.

Obviously, he had a great finish in Saudi Arabia as well. He's definitely not done, but this doesn't change any projection that I have for the rest of the year for Phil. Does it for you? I don't think so. I just think that he's not a, I mean, today it sort of showed up and it kind of showed up on Saturday too, but he kind of short game to around it. But he's lost what made him a truly great player, which was his iron play. And so, you know, that's where I think, like if I had total control of the Phil's career, if I was like his coach or someone and could say, what are we going to focus on, I'd be like,

let's just lean on your strengths, man. Like, you're really great from mid-Iarns in or even long-Iarns. Let's stop trying to fricking scramble from all over hell and get the ball in the fairway. And there was a time in his career, I think was you know time when he around when he won the British where he was kind of like oh yeah like I'm gonna hit this two wood off the teeth is frankenwood or whatever and I'm just gonna basically rely on my irons to to hang in there and when it was putting was good enough like he was a I'm you know probably either the third or second best player in the world and I wish that he would sort of focus on that But I just think he likes too much the idea of like oh, yeah, I can still hit a pasty boy

It's like I'm still you know mashing it out here, and that's just to me like you know That's that's not gonna be a long-term strategy. Yeah, he'll still here's what's gonna have a fill So he's gonna be 54 or 55 and he's going to have some ridiculous Friday at Augusta reshoots 67 and he's like sunburnt and wrinkled and like looking and he's just going to have that sort of twinkle in his eye and he's going to be like, you know, I think I'm in this and they don't follow it up with 78. But there will be a moment in a major still where I think he will come flying up the leaderboard and it will probably be in his 50s and it'll be at a place like Gusto or could be a British.

But I just don't think like anybody who thinks he's got a chance to use open. I mean, you are talking to the guy who said the Tigers should go coach instead of playing. So I'll be happy to provide the motivation for Phil that I'm jinxing into happening. That would be the best way to do it. I'd call the credit. It almost sounds like when I hear him talk about the US open now it comes from like a source of like resignation.

Like yeah, it's like I give him my best effort. Like if it happens happens, but just what happened to Shinnecock and running and hitting the putt, like, I'd be stunned stunned if that happened. But Tiger Woods also won the Master's last year, so quite literally anything could happen. A couple of questions we got about Pebble before we move on. These are two, one and the same.

I'm going to ask them both. M Wearsy asked, is Pebble overrated? Never seemed to have that exciting of a finish here. He's an exclude broadcasting and the scenic views. I think, let's get on. I'll ask this next one too. This is a really good one from at Variety Packs. How would you reroute Pebble to make the back nine more interesting? And so this this was going around on Twitter during the US open the Gulf Architect, Jay Blassey shared some images of a potential rerouting. And I about lost my shit when I saw this routing for how cool it looked. And kind of what I've always felt from that stretch from 11 to 16, like there's some nuance in there, there's some good holes in there.

I'm not saying they're completely blah, but it's also sitting on some of the most crazy land in the world for golf and in relation to that, yeah, they're a bit blah. So he rerouts kind of once you come off eight green, you actually go inward on the ninth and this something you see at like Pacific dunes or some of the the band in courses where you touch the touch the water for a while, you go away from it for a while, and then come back the opposite direction on the water to really kind of give a different varied look to it. And the knock, I guess, on that amazing stretch from Pebble is, you know, holes four through ten all have the ocean to the right. And so his rerouting was to make number nine a long, long par five.

It is inland. And then you play, you basically play it all the way back to that top right corner. I forget what direction that is of the property. But then you play the 10th straight downhill back towards the ocean with a green on the ocean. So that's what that 11th tee is. Your back towards the water. And it kind of doesn't really take advantage of all the ocean. So that's what that 11th tee is. You're backs towards the water, and it kind of doesn't really take advantage of all the view. And then you come play 10 and 11 alongside the water, with the water to your left, which is a really cool little wrinkle as well.

So, sorry, his 11th and 12th would be, you know, dog legs to the left with water, to the cliffs to the left. And it's like, whoa, once you see this, and it's just triggering. 13 becomes a part three, and then 14 is a part four up to the actual green side for 14. So I think, Pebble, we've had a lot of conversations

on here, Pebble, I think was overrated for a long time, and then the conversation became, is it overrated, and it somehow became underrated. There's a lot of nuance to it. There is really cool to see it playing as firm as it was and in those conditions, I thought that made for a fastening test. You could tell by all the separation at the top that it was a good tournament, especially,

if you're able to clear yourself in the field that far, as much as even the top 10 was able to kind of clear themselves, I think that's a good sign of a good golf tournament. So where do you stand on, Pebble being overrated and the potential re-wra, it's not gonna happen, but the proposed on Twitter rerouting of pebble. The magical rerouting of pebble.

What would I do to Augusta? If I could change the rerouting of Augusta? I was wondering, I remember this seeing it during Usoapin and the sort of theoretical bouncing around. And I'm actually looking at it now because I sort of pull it up. And it does look pretty awesome. And it's like something that is a total pipe dream. Because I remember the discussion.

Part of the discussion is you'd have to shut down Pebble for a year, something to do it, which is basically willing to eat $20 million in lost revenue, or whatever it is. Is it the resort that owns the, or is it the, what exactly, who's the owner of technology? The Pebble Beach Company, which is, yeah, the resort and they own several other courses too. I don't know which one's exactly.

I'm honestly not that well versed in the region. Right. I mean, what I think it was great about Pebble is that it's creative golf in the sense of like there's not really that many flat lies out there. You can't just pound driver. The greens are small, so you have to be super precise. And the wind is almost always sort of factor. So it's golf in a way that's unlike most of the rest of the PGA tour golf. It's not that different than Band-In or my guess, like Cypress or some of the rest of the PGA tour golf. It's not that different than Band-In or my guess, Cypress or some of the other coastal great golf courses.

I don't think I would pay honestly $600 to play it, but I think as a tournament golf course, it's still really neat and unique kind of hollowed ground when it comes to American golf just because, you know, I mean, this is where Tom Watson chipped in and it's, one thing that doesn't, it's irrelevant now, thinking back, but like I always remember Tiger hitting a big sweeping slice around the tree when he was dressed as the animal in all 10 on the Saturday and thinking like, I think that was on ESPN. And he was playing with those big ugly Nike clubs back then. And so he hit that bomb three wood

and sort of spun out of there. And I remember whoever it was, was a announcer was like, Tigers back. And that was 2010. And so everyone was kind of waiting for him to become tiger again. And God, the fact that it didn't happen for another decade is kind of crazy.

Because in that moment, it felt like, oh, this is what tiger used to do. It's like he used to hit balls under that tree, and then pull off these amazing creative shots that I think he made to go there to shoot 65 or 66 or something that day and be within whatever it was a few shots of DJ and you're thinking like, oh this is finally like we're going to get the tiger come back and it's iconic course and so like yeah there's been like

some good finishes there. It just gets really hard so it's that's why some guys end up separating a lot you know like it's I don't know, should there be dramatic, I mean Watson shipped in on 17 and that kind of changed, that was like a huge iconic moment in the history of the tournament. So I don't know if it's like, there hasn't been, there's been some dramatic things, but I mean, I don't know. Yeah, they've kind of chipped away at some issues with the course in recent years. They've redone the 17th green, they've redone the 14th green. I think there's still a couple more that could probably add, that could add some intrigue to.

Personally, even at a place like Pebble, I don't love the small greens. I think it, it becomes less of a test at a certain point when it's like this firm. And if you're going to have rough around the greens, anyways, and the ball's just going to stop shortly off the green, it's not much of a challenge, I think. I mean, with that much undulation in the greens, I'd like to see them just a bit bigger, just because there's still a ton of strategy and how much you want to go at pins, because as of right now, especially when the winds blow in that hard, you're just holding on for dear life trying to find a putting service, even pros, even at the top level. And there's not that much strategy, not as much strategy that comes into, you know,

how, do I want to go at this pin? Do I want to leave it below it? Because the slope does this, blah, blah, blah. You're just kind of holding on for dear life. So that's kind of a nitpicking pebble. I know it's, it's a often ridicule thing of woke golf to ridicule or to pick a part pebble. But a couple of things before we move on from this speed, back in the top 50, top 10, low round of the day, which like he is sucked on every weekend, basically forever, since like for the last two years or last year and so to have that round, it was, that's hopefully a side of things to come.

We're looking for anything, but you don't want to be too late to the party if it does get this thing turned around jordan if you're listening thanks for for valedict and me and solid continuing belief in you uh... we're too the few of dying not continuing undying believe undying excuse me we are not going anywhere alright it is gonna happen uh... i was saying i was like man just like go back and listen to the pod me he talks about close

you as a like oh, we recorded that last March. It's been 11 months. We're ready for some results. But hopefully this is a sign of things to come. It just needs one. Just needs one. And it's going to like, it won't maybe cure every ill, but it's going to give such a shot of confidence when it happens. And he's too good to not get one that just kind of restores some of the magic. Jason Brand asked what was the best part of CBS coverage? Truly, there must have been something on here for the negative coverage takes. Don't get me wrong, but I want one positive.

I thought they really like made an effort to mix up some camera views this week. I mean, Phil picked up one of the cameras and threw it to the side. One of those new cameras that might not stick around. He said it was moving. It makes a noise when it's moving, but the ground, I like that you're doing some different stuff with some of the handhelds, some different panning. They look at there was at least an effort there.

So yeah, we'll give a little credit where credit's due. I'll defer to you on that one. I guess I was, this goes against the question, but how come they can do the drone shots that like they did it to the Fox did? Like, is it just laziness? Like what? I thought that the drone thing was such a neat thing that Fox did or new soap and I thought CBS might be like, oh, yeah, let's do that too. Oh, God, no. Oh, no. Oh, I think I dove your joke here. Not like they're not going to do the drill. I will give them

a pass on that because that is Fox's ability to come in once a year and flex muscles. When they move this ship from week to week, it doesn't, they're not gonna do that and they can't do that. They're not capable. You can get a drone, a target for like $3,000. Yeah, the live feed and stuff and how they do that is not as simple as Fox made it look, I think. I'll give them a pass

on it. I don't know it's basically the same thing. Did you see that floating leaderboard out over the water for some reason that no one was asking for? I, I, I, I, hey, I got an idea in this production meeting. What do you think we should do this year? Show more golfers? No, let's do a hologram leaderboard in the middle of the, what about a weird kind of protracer red line thing for a shot that happened five minutes ago? Yeah, no, no, we don't need to see that. No, no, like not not even a little bit. All right. Now here's this dog's ass That's basically how it goes. So okay, we're done. We're done CBS. We're done moving on moving on from PGA tour talk I I want to talk about how much fun it was to watch professional golf again in Australia

Did you watch much of the Vic open this week? I had it on Saturday night. We'll just to sort of support the game and do a full time laundry and sit around and watch. I mean, I love golf, and I wish that there was just more of it in the United States where you cannot just hit it to a number and then the ball stops. Like, it's just so much fun to

Watch people have to chase shots in or have to think about the elements and I Just you know, I think why it's such a fun sort of like a little event to have all this going on at the same time Why wouldn't this work in the US like why couldn't the sort of LPGA and the PG tour get together and be like, yeah, let's totally have like two tournaments in one spot and just sort of help it benefit the game in general. I think it'll be so fun to watch Lexi Thompson and Jordan Speeth playing the same hole within a couple of hours of one another. My kids would love that. My girls freaking absolutely are golf nerds and You know, so they would like they they have a better idea of like who brand-centered is in broad James And so like they would love to see that girls could do that

I don't know why like it's so hard to put together in the US We're gonna put that aside for one second. Just put a pin in that all right. We're gonna get to that first We have to give a hearty congratulations to Calaway staffer Min Woo Lee. He's the brother of LPGA standout Minji Lee. He won the European tour side of the trophy at the Vic Open. He is first European tour win bag full of Calaway clubs, a Calaway Chrome soft X golf ball, and an Odyssey Stroke Lab 10 putter. I don't. The rumor was that he heard about my FSGA winner series win with the Stroke Lab 10 putter. I don't, the rumor was that he heard about my FSGA winner series win with the Stroke Lab 10 putter and after I switched to it, he gained 6.54 strokes putting on the weak.

I had, I gained seven with it, but it's not that big of a deal. Good job. That wasn't in the copy either. It's amazing they have strokes game. I know, the winner series. It is. Golf Genius is really bucket of Ted. Let me tell you also in the bag for Leah set of Calaway jaws MD five wedges.

Tron is telling me that he would actually like to call on investigation to the legality of these wedges because of how hard they spin. Rounding out the bag was artificial intelligence enabled driver and fairway would along the set of a set of apex muscle back irons for more on men who's equipment check out Calloway Golf dot com and and Odyssey golf dot com again that's Calloway Golf dot com and Odyssey golf dot com back to what you said honestly I watched I really only watched it on on Saturday night as well as a wild Saturday night here at the at the Solomon household I honestly I kind of forgot as I'm watching it,

forgot might not be the right word, that it was two different tournaments going on at once. It was so seamless. I just, you know what I mean? Honestly, I was laughing at, I promised I was done with CBS, but laughing at CBS's inability to cover one tournament and sky's ability to just cover two

simultaneously and me not even realize that it was two different tournaments. You know what I mean? I don't know how it's done. The shout out to sky that just understands that golf nerd junkies like us just want to watch golf. Like we truly don't care about this sort of branding or whatever, the various slow motion kind of cutaways. They're just going to show you the golf. Maybe it's easier when that's what your priorities are.

They do these great. The win was such a dictating factor. They do these great graphics. They show an overhead vision of the whole and the win direction. The win mattered so much because of how firm the conditions were. There were so many short par fours that, you know, you would just look at them and be like, all these guys are just going to bully this whole, but it just wasn't the case. The bunkers were so well placed. The golf course is called

13th Beach. It's another Melbourne sand belt course. It's kind of near, it's on the southern coast, just south west of Melbourne, I believe. And I just want to give the proper, proper props, if you will, for, I don't know, with the courage, I guess, it takes to do an event like that. European tours obviously willing to try anything. And it was, it made for great viewing. It was really cool to watch how the women and the men handle the same conditions, same day, just different teas.

And it just didn't feel that different. The T-Markers did not feel important. The distance of the hole did not feel important. And when we get to the back half of this, when we're gonna talk about the distance and golf, I just watched that whole thing, and I was like, you know what, golf, this is, distance is not an issue in this golf tournament

that I'm watching right now, is 100% not an issue, and that goes to tournament setup. I love how in general, like bipolar we feel about the air pan tour. Like sometimes I'm like, you know what, so it's how dare you get in bed with these murderous dictators? And then sometimes I'm like, man, I love the shock locks.

You got, you really guys, I love you just how inventive you are. Like, hey, two tournaments at once, bring it on. I do appreciate their willingness to try anything. I also will reserve the right to disagree with some of the decisions they make. Because they don't make it very, very far in the meetings of like the half baked ideas before it just becomes final done, done deal, we're doing it. I mean, they're social media is so good and yet here they are getting in bed with some

of the worst people. Yeah, I mean, as many, look, as fans, we can come up with all these ideas and encourage them for all this, you know, they put a t-Box on top of a pool house in Turkey and they do all this stuff, but it doesn't necessarily mean you're going to make money. And the European tour doesn't really make money, unfortunately, aside from the Ryder Cup. So, like that's part of what is fun for fans to dream about, but the answer to every question, you put, what we just put a pin in, why don't the PGA tour and LPGA tour do a co-ho a joint event and the answer is money

I mean, it's just I you got to give up basically Half of the spots to LPGA players or I don't I don't know exactly how it would work I just know the the PJ Taurus not incentivized to do it and I don't think that that's really anywhere close to being to I've not heard anything that makes me think that's gonna happen anytime soon All right, cool, but that'd be fun. I agree. I would watch that um But solid maybe what they can do is reroute pebble and then have the tournament there So We get all of our wishes could come true

Keith Pell is busing through that door. Oh, you want me to reroute pebble? I'll reroute pebble I'll give a damn um LPGA has canceled their Asian swing due to the coronavirus. This just came out, I think, today. Yeah, I think that is the, I'd be hard-pressed to find any one of the things that disagrees with that decision. I don't have enough information to say, like, oh,

there's nothing to fear. And obviously, there is fear and putting the health and safety of the players and And everyone involved as a top priority is probably the right decision. I would have to imagine so I'm on that. All right. Go ahead. Have you ever read the stand by Stephen King? I have can't say that I have Okay, so like the first 250 pages of the book are like about like this bacterial virus that basically like kills 90% of the world's population and sometimes I wonder like

it sort of slowly takes place over like six months or something and like every time one of these things whether it's bird flu or coronavirus or Ebola or whatever comes up I'm like huh I wonder if this is like the beginning of the stand, like six months from now, it's like it's just gonna be, you know, like there's gonna be like 10 people in my neighborhood, we're gonna be fighting over the same rotted apples at the Crochet Store, because that's all there is to eat. Anyway, it's time to bring it down. Yeah, anyway, there was always memes going around the internet about, oh, like excited for the 20s and then you remember the 1920s had a plague the 18 20s had a plague the 17 20s had a plague and It hits within the first month of the year, but anyways, we're not Health advisors here or experts, but Speak for yourself

Someone needs to just rest hold this coronavirus to the ground. Oh well on that note Antifalto asked do you think mr. Player is upset that we didn't learn more about global warming in the 70s? Not because we could have taken more strenuous measures earlier, but because they could have scheduled a tournament in Antarctica and he could have claimed to have won on all seven continents. I want a tournament there. It was just me and a guide. I want it shirtless. Like, global warming would have been great for everyone because it would have swept off some of the more fatty news

of the fatty's out there. It was a lot easier to keep it cheap. Oh, it's never going to get, I promise, it's never going to get old. All right, it's time to tackle the most important topic I would say in the game of golf, or the most important news in the game of golf this past week. I'm just gonna start this discussion on the distance report

by saying I'm gonna contradict myself right off the bat and probably throughout the rest of this conversation as well, but I sincerely appreciate when people or companies in this case governing bodies are willing to put their hand up and admit when they are wrong, okay? Just because you've said something for every year, for 15 years, just pulling a random number out of my hat, that doesn't mean you should say it forever, they could have carried on forever, but it appears that there is a stop in our future for the ball going as far as it does in the game

golf. So kudos for that. Now at the same exact time, what in the hell could have possibly taken so long? Like people have been screaming this from the rooftops for decades and they're just now telling us that distance is an issue in 2020. A lot of the damage is done. I am fascinated to see how much toothpaste three able to get back in the tube. What do you say to that? I guess, you know, similar, like better late than not at all. But I don't know, like it's really hard to go backwards in time with sports. It's funny, like I actually covered swimming for many years because I was the Baltimore Suns Michael Phelps reporter and so I watched some of this happen in swimming where like they had these suits were essentially like you know made swimmers into missiles and the swimming

governing body was like when I think I remember I covered a meat in Australia where Michael Phelps broke like seven world records and after the Olympics in08 the swimming governing body was like you know what we kind of remember maybe a sleep of the wheel on this we're going to roll things back and most of the swimmers were like okay okay like I get it like you know it's this is this is how it's going to be like this is not going to be and obviously it's different because you have so much of golf's economy. I guess it probably runs on equipment, money, whatever. But I don't know.

I was thinking about this today. It just seems like there is a marketing opportunity here for equipment companies that maybe they're not kind of seeing. Essentially marketing half of this stuff to seeing, like essentially marketing, you know, half of those stuff to say like, hey, look, like we're gonna, if you're an amateur, we're gonna be the best possible equipment. You're gonna be able to be awesome, whatever.

But if you wanna play like the pros, like if you wanna test your game the way they do, here's the equipment for you too. And maybe you should buy a little bit of each, like maybe so, you know, you can sort of decide. And yeah, like at the highest level of like, what do you do about the US Amner or whatever, what do you do about you know the what a gold horn fairy tour or college kids or whatever fine we'll figure all that out. But at least to me now like there's a line kind of being drawn where it's like hey we have to fix this one way or another because they're

just not going to watch people like maybe take it over the dog leg every time and hit the ball, you know, 325, 400 yards, and kind of basically render some of the best pieces of property irrelevant. Okay, it would be super fun. I think, and I've always said, I probably on this pod several times, the best way for this to happen is for Augusta to say,

hey, you wanna play our tournament? You're gonna use our ball. Yeah. And you don't like it, goodbye. We don't care because they're happy to invite another person to take your spot. And they're the only ones with enough power to do it right now. And if they did it, then I think a lot of other like the USJ or some of the individual tournaments would say, like, yeah, we're going to do that too. And the players, because the players wouldn't skip Augusta, they wouldn't pow and say, we're not, I'm not playing the

masters. If I don't get to play my Provi won or my Kromosov Fax or whatever, they would say, all right, like, we'll do the masters important enough and we're not going to go against them. Just emptying, emptying the tank, right off the bat. He's coming. Here's what, like, hey, can you think of any other sports where at a certain level, the amateur level, the collegiant level, they use a device to hit a small white ball really far, yet it's crazy to do that at the professional level.

So they use a totally different material and the ball goes significantly less distance. There's so many more elements that balls that are hit closer to the heel of this device go less far and balls that are way off the toe of it go less far. Is there any example of that in sports? I can't think of any. Do you have any? No, I never, I'm definitely not the beer league softball. So what's the, why would we care about the blurred line between the top level of Amritor Golf

and then professional golf in golf? If we don't care about it in baseball, I mean, people, how long does it take to adjust to? And I know it's not apples to apples, but that's a pretty damn good comparison of, like, hey, yeah, you wanna go play like professional ball? Okay, now you're a pro, go use the wooden bat. I go to go ride, go to rookie ball

and go use the wooden bat and see how you do. And that's I think that yeah, I think you just have to have your governing body take a stand and what's part of what's hard is that the governing body for golf isn't the best players, whatever, it's the USGA, whatever. And so play the best players in the world obviously like hate the USGA in some ways. And so you're you're asking fractured different things to kind of help get together and rule on one different thing or another. I just think if they draw the line and say it and they basically say this is how it's going to be and they are able to sort of fight off whatever inevitable loss it is, people

will get used to it and they'll be okay with it in a few years time like it isn't going to bring about the collapse of the whole you know industry there isn't going to be thousands of people laid off it's all these doomsday scenarios about you know we'll never adjust to this this was you're growing a ruin the game like the economics of the game like I just don't buy the police for my cold dead hands yeah those are scare tactics. Like this isn't the second amendment. You know, this isn't this doesn't try to take it this seriously. And just and what I think too would help in some ways is if they sort of explain some of this. Well, why don't we go that why don't we go let's go into the report and let's let's try to explain some of this point by point and then we can mix in some commentary. So we have some notes here.

I've pulled some nuggets from the report that I think are most relevant to the overall conversation. If you have the agenda in front of you, I'll read A, you read B, and then I'll read C. Does that work? That's work, perfect. All right, so from the report, the USGA is noted, an enduring foundation of golf is that success

in getting a ball from the T to the whole in the fewest strokes should depend on using many different skills and judgments rather than be dominated by only one or a few. In our view, it is essential for this to remain true for play at the diverse golf courses across the world without the need for them to keep getting longer. In summary, we believe that golf will best thrive over the next decade and beyond if this continuing cycle of ever increasing hitting distances and golf course lengths is brought to an end. Longer distances, longer courses, playing from longer tees and longer times to play are taking golf in the wrong direction and are not necessary to make golf challenging and enjoyable or sustainable in the future. Yeah, so off the bat here, kind of similar to what I said at the top of this, a little bit

of, you know, golf clap P in the potty, like you did it, like you said, all the things that we've said for quite some time are going on with the game of golf. And I will admit to it not being, I am definitely not a leader in this conversation. When I first got into, you know, working in golf, I thought it was really cool how far people headed. I did not understand. I remember seeing Ricky Fowler hit a nine iron from like 198 of Valhalla. And people like commenting on that being bad.

And I was like, you're an old fart, you're an idiot. Like that's so cool. All the young guys just hit it really far. You don't understand it yet. And like a couple years later, I learned pretty quickly, like, oh, this is not good. This is really, really, really, really, really not good for the game of golf.

So the conversation can often get, we've in and out of this, how much should distance be rewarded as a skill? And I think we can all agree that it is a skill, but what we've seen is that skill being rewarded more and more. And I think that's what the USGA is admitting here, that that distance is a skill, but what we've seen is that skill being rewarded more and more. I think that's what the USGA is admitting here that distance is pretty much over weighing and kind of limiting the other skills that you need because of how important it's become.

So correlation in the data is there to prove it. And basically they finally had to ask themselves, why is that the skill the most important one? It became the most important one, and I think they basically were like, that's not, I don't think the most exciting shot of a golf or the most important shot should be the tee shot. So why should that be the one that gets rewarded the most? So for them, Kudos on that one. Why don't you take us to the next one

because the next nugget here? So I think this is the big one and the most important kind of development from this. And then we're gonna get to kind of what's gonna happen over the next couple of months. But what are they proposing here? The big one here, this proposes, will assess the potential use of a local rule option that would specify the use of clubs and or balls intended to result in short or hitting distances. This is what I was started talking about with Augusta. The concept is the equipment meeting a

particular set of reduced distance specifications. For example, a ball that does not travel as far or a club that will not hit it as far might be defined subset of an overall category of conforming equipment. This could allow committees that conduct golf competitions or oversee individual courses to choose by a local rule authorized under the rules of golf, whether and when to require that such equipment be used. Such a local rule option could be available for use at all levels of play and golfers playing outside a competition could also have the option to make the choice for themselves. Which I think that's great. It's great. It is. I worry about this a little bit though right off the bat and I don't know this. I don't know what the PGA

Tourist stance on this is currently or what it's going to be. But it seems a little bit like passing the buck. And that I would have to think in doing this study that they've been in communication with the tour, I would hope that they're at least somewhat aligned. But it kind of seems a little bit like, hey, it's going to be up to the PGA Tour. Like, we're making a local rule. And if the tour says, no, no, we like advertising how far these guys hit it. We're going to keep it that way. Like Finchham said, when the USGA kind of kicked around this

conversation, you know, within the last decade, there was at least one point that the USGA came to the tour and said, hey, will you support us if we, you know, try to limit this? And Finchham's answer was no. Obviously, it's a new regime, new regime with the PGA tour under Jay Monahan. I don't know what the response is gonna be. I liked that they're at least opening up this possibility, but I would hope that this all gets rolled together with a mission in mind that says and professional golf were rolling back the equipment.

You know what I kind of wish that we could sort of, one of the things that I think is sort of missing in the sort of, one of the things that I think is sort of missing in the sort of discussion here is that it would be okay if you could still, to me, if you could still hit the ball really far, but that the misses were more severe if you miss it. It's a huge, huge, huge, huge element of all of this. Because look, Jack Nicholas could always hit it really far, like farther than anybody on tour.

Like he was the big Kahuna back then, whatever. But when you missed the dime size sweet spot with those clubs, the ball was going way offline and you were screwed. And that's what made Jack so good. He was not only really powerful, but he was really accurate and consistent. And so there was guys back then who could hit it as far as him sometimes, but they couldn't do it as consistently. So like if you change the ball and said like it's gonna spin a lot more,

and you'd still probably see Rory and DJ and guys hit it really far. But of sometimes when they missed it, when they decided to really ramp it up, the ball would go way off the planet, and that's what I think would make it fair again. It would make it interesting. I was like say like if you you're so against limiting distance, then and the other thing that I think that we don't really talk about enough is so you're like a scratch player, right? That's really good. But it's a good thing. But even even shout out to our man Tom coin, even a plus two is shit compared to like a pg tour player corn very tour player Just not even you're not even the same you know, sorry

The benefits that Tour players get from the equipment being optimized or whatever in the ball being optimized this level is something that most Almost I would say 0.5% of amateurs are not going to really take advantage of. Like you might be able to as a plus two, like hit the ball farther or whatever, but even me as like a 7 or an 8 or like someone as a 10, they're just not going to be able to compress the ball enough to make it, make a difference. So they're probably not going to lose any distance even if they play with these reduced flight balls because they're going to go the same amount they went before because their swings aren't good enough to make a difference. So they're probably not going to lose any distance even if they play with these reduced fight balls because they're going to go the same map they went before

because their swings aren't good enough to make a difference. And so that's where like the fear tactics I think are sort of silly is because you can sit there and tell me like, oh well if you reduce the how far the ball goes like then so and so is not going to buy a $500 dryer because he's going to feel like, he can't do it anyway. He gets all frickin' smoking mirrors. He can't swing the ball like on an upward angle that's gonna launch it, frickin' at 120 miles an hour anyway. So it's not benefiting him. It's just all fake.

It's all marketing, right? Well, it's, this is where my, I hope this is probably gonna come off as a conflict of interest with our, of course, our Callaway sponsorship. I think you're definitely on the right path. For sure, it is not a one-to-one benefit. The tour players are maxing out the benefits of these drivers way more than anyone that, you know, walks into a dick sporting goods and buys a Callaway or titleist or tailor-made driver. That's, I don't think there's anyone out there that's going to argue that.

I do think that the current technology without any doubt helps the mid-handicap Amateur player so much because this is why I argue for bifurcation. I've always argued for bifurcation is it eliminates some of the, not eliminates, but it diminishes those misses that you're talking about. You know, if Rory swinging a 280 CC driver instead of 460 CC driver, he's going to hit a couple ones a little bit more squirrely. There's just not enough space on that head, you know, like these guys hit balls off the toe sometimes and it curves right to left, right down the fairway. Amateur players are going to hit balls not on the center of the face and I have absolutely

no problem with them getting the benefit of the current technology to make that ball go straight. That means they're going to find more balls, have more fun. The whole point of us playing this game, it isn't about, it is partially about getting the ball in the hole in a short amount of strokes But we do it for fun like the end of the day This is why like the best argument for sweetens is you know some people say that's not real golf It's kind of like miniature golf and it's really easy. It's like, okay, what the what the hell are we doing out there? We're doing this to have fun. Why would we why would we take this away from people off the streets?

I love the equipment. I think it's great But I think it's great, but I think it'd be very reasonable if it was like, oh, hey dude, if you wanna compete at this level, you can't use that, because that is almost cheating, how good of equipment that stuff is. It really is that good, and it's been proven by pros and by amateurs, just how freaking good this stuff is.

And I just think that from an entertainment standpoint, at the top level, it's gotten to be where it's not that entertaining anymore. And it would be way more fun if the guys had different challenges they had to face other than just hitting it really far. Yeah, I just think it would be more fun if there's more variety in the terms of kind of player that could exist. You know, if you're a Corey Pavan type who's trying to make it as a professional golfer, and maybe that's the boobin

and Zach Blair, it's just really hard for you to be able to do that. And I don't think Cory Pavan's winning a major like this in this era, just because it's just, unless you can get it out there 300 yards, it's like you're really, unless they're gonna start holding majors at Rome and Albert where distances sort of taken away because of the firmness.

It's just not going to work. And I think it would be more fun if like that was what was kind of always neat about golf. And it's what still kind of exists over in the British open. It's like Ben Curtis could win, you know, a British open. Like if you just, you don't have to whack it down as far as you can because there's too many like quirky elements in play, right? And so I just wish that there was more of that because it's kind of fun when that's what made golf special.

It wasn't always the biggest, bronious guy. It was the guy who could sort of think as we around or learn how to take on less risk, but be more accurate. That's what made the Vic open such great viewing. Is some of the tee shots, which is like, oh, I wonder if he's going to play this up the left or right. I mean, I don't really, so he's got two iron. This guy's hitting driver.

That's interesting, because that's gonna bring that bunker in play. But it wasn't, these dumb ass holes, and this is where, you know, we're mixing so many things with architecture and design, but these dumb ass PGA tour holes that are 475 yards with a slight dog leg, that's really just like, hey, there's two bunkers on each side of the fairway.

Hit it far and straight between those bunkers, is not interesting. That's what golf has on each side of the fairway. Hit it far and straight between those bunkers is not interesting. That's what golf has become because of all the synthesis on driving. But got, okay, that's a lot of things. There's a couple more points in the report that I want to get to and then we can round out our conversation.

So what also the USDA and RNA are announcing that they plan to do, we will also review the overall conformance specifications for both clubs and balls, including specifications that both directly and indirectly affect hitting distances. So a point in that is both clubs and balls. I think a lot of people will need to say roll back the ball. People assume you are just talking about the golf

ball, which personally when I say that, I am not, but we're going to get to that. Back to the report, the intended purpose of this review is to consider whether any existing specifications should be adjusted or any new specifications should be created to help mitigate the continuing distance increases. It is not currently intended to consider revising the overall specifications in a way that

would produce substantial reductions in hitting distances at all levels of the game. The last part is really important, because and hitting distances at all levels of the game. Now, last part is really important because I think that at all levels of the game is definitely a very noteworthy part. I don't think anything from this report is really affecting Ambers too greatly. If it is, it's not gonna be great.

And I don't think it's gonna, the substantial reductions we're not gonna see a 20% rollback. Even we're not even gonna see a 10% rollback. I don't even know if it's gonna be a rollback. I just think they're finally gonna be like, we're not getting longer. I guess the at minimum threshold that they need to clear and I just don't think it's gonna be like,

hey, we're going back to balladas and persimmons. I don't think that's a reality. No, I don't think so either. And I think like, I also think that the companies, the human companies can sort of learn how to sort of remarket themselves or adjust within whatever limitations we have on it. In some ways, they already did it when they basically said, hey, you can't have driver heads that are bigger than

four or six DCCs, whatever. That wasn't that long ago that they kind of drew that line in the sand. And so then it was like well, okay We're gonna focus on ball speed or whatever and that's how like you know Callie came up with the jailbreak technology and like the tailor made came up with that everything and stuff and so The companies are gonna just like it there isn't all this r&d money isn't being poured into this stuff You know for us just on a whim like there they have all kinds of like MIT's ties scientists work on this stuff for us just on a whim. Like they have all kinds of like MIT's ties, scientists work on this stuff. So they're going to find different ways to sort of say, like, all right, now this science

will help you be more accurate. That's the best way for you to get better at golf and whatever. That's just going to create new opportunities for me. You can't just all be about distance because it's kind of the point where so much about distance that some companies are marketing clubs that are like, you know, a six iron is what used to be a four iron. You know, if they're just changing the lofts on it and saying like, oh, it's,

it actually still works his way because of the way that we'd launch us at higher in the air and stuff. And like, not really. Like it's just, there's so, again, like if you aren't gonna pick up 13 yards of distance every single year. So, you know, what, what ways are're gonna get better at golf? Like, okay,

you know, this will make you more accurate at least. That might be the next really way to sort of get people to buy stuff. That would help me a lot. I think the biggest, the biggest thing, if honestly if I was to put it in one sentence, it would be reintroducing risk with the driver. I think when I am, this happened to me in my tournament last week, when I was coming down the stretch, I was feeling just a little off with my swing. I didn't feel great. And I honestly started hitting bunch drivers

because I didn't feel great about getting a three wood head out. Like the driver heads are just so big that it feels like the safest club in the world to hit. And that's where I think a lot of, you know, it's become very safe to hit driver in that some of the longest players in the world to hit. And that's where I think a lot of, you know, it's become very safe to hit driver and that some of the longest players in the game can hit driver to get past all of the trouble. And that's the safest possible play that the shot DJ hit in the playoff of the Northern Trust against spieth.

He was like, oh, so ballsie hit driver over all that. No, no, he had an 80 yard wide fairway once that wind shifted because that was the, there was no risk in that shot. And that's where there should never be a shot where even the longest hitters, I know they're skill in hitting it really long, but there should not be a shot that those guys can hit on the PGA tour that is super safe to swing as hard as you can. Like that should not be where the balance in the risk is. So, a more things from the report. We believe that a continuing trend of increased hitting distances leading to two undesirable outcomes over time.

An altered, skilled challenge for the longest hitting golfers when playing the same length courses as in the past. And two, many golf courses continuing to become longer to offset the increased distance. I mean, honestly, even in the notes, I haven't even noted all of the environmental concerns, all the dollar and sense reasons why it makes no sense for all of these golf courses.

Just have a T-box that is, you know, Augusta National bought a road and moved it. I mean, like, what the hell? Augusta National, the most famed golf course in the world, at minimum, top three golf course in the world. We're moving roads. Why does it make sense to do this to the works of art that are existing in this world in golf?

I just has never made sense to like, hey, could we get either control the equipment or we could change all the ball parks? I don't understand how they never control the equipment. Well, I'm getting worked on. 25 million minimum at least. I think that was the estimate cost 25 million to buy that extra land from the, I guess to country. And just do like the argument. Yeah. Like, yeah, keep moving. I love it. Move the T's back. Okay, you're not the one paying for it.

Like you're spending someone else's money and I and we do that a lot on this podcast, but that's a lot to say what there's 33,000 golf clubs, I think they said in the report in the world. Hey, keep telling them, keep moving, keep moving tees back, keep buying houses, bulldoze them and keep building tees. It just doesn't make sense. It's funny, sometimes you hear the argument about, like who cares what par is? Like why would it, you know, why not just have 13 in Augusta play as essentially a long par four anymore? And I think like what, you know, that was neat to see Tiger, like tear up Augusta in 1987, hitting, you know, nothing less than 8 iron into every single green, because it had never been done before. And so it was like this awe-inspiring, like, oh my god, this is a rare athlete who's like,

now it happens all the time. And so it's lost its sort of specialness. And so you could sit there and say, oh, yeah, well, why would you care? Well, look, if we get to the point where guys are hitting flip wedge into 13 every time and making an eagle's not that special, then that's where it kind of doesn't matter. Part of what makes the master special is that you're comparing it to every other year that you've watched it growing up.

If suddenly an eagle on 13 is regular routine, then of course then that's what sort of why an argument for sort of taking it back. Because part of what makes 13 one of the best golf balls in the world is its risk Reward it's like do you want to take a four iron often uneven lie and go for that green try to get close That's what my mickle son going fit and six iron out of the trees is such a sort of iconic thing because it was like He brought in so much trouble He could have easily chipped it down there But he went for it and if you're taking out the element of risk to it because you're just flying it down

when Bubba hit it, what, 370 when he beat speed that year. And he took it left over the top of the trees. And Jordan was like, yeah, I thought he hit it 30 yards out of bounds. And all of a sudden, he's got a flip wedge into that green. Like that wasn't, that wasn't special. That was just like, oh man, like what, this has got, something's got to change.

Yeah, something's not right. I mean, when you've, when you've defeated the purpose of the challenge and again, it's an eye rolling thing for a lot of people to be like, how the architect intended it, but the point is exactly what you said for the 13th Augusta is, you know, hey, if you want to take more risk, this is what Bernard Longer has always done. He was so accurate with the driver that he could, he would tug that driver to the left side and which is taking on way more risk, getting close to that hazard,

but he would get a flatter lie into the 13th with that shot. And a lot of other people just wanted to see their ball in the fairway and they'd get up there and they'd have the ball hanging above their feet and they would do the brand sennacher thing where they hit in the water every time. And it's just, there was so much shot value in that drive and now when you can bomb it over the corner with driver,

some guys even hit three wood around the corner, you've defeated the whole purpose of the hole. Why even have the hole there? I've always hated the idea of moving that tee back, but now I'm kinda like, you know what? Reintroduce trying to hug it close to that corner and bring in a ton more risk with that second shot, because now it is a par four and a half, but they're skipping past the challenge. And that is again

where I keep ending up at is so many of the shots now just skip past the challenge. It's not that hard to hit it far and straight. And that's where they're eliminating most of the difficulty in a golf hole. So, yeah. So again, back to the report. For golfers playing from the longest T's, the inherent strategic challenge presented by such a course and its individual holes can eventually be compromised when, in there's a list of three things. When whole playing length gets relatively shorter, golfers are more often able to play higher

lofted approaches or to use shorter clubs off the tee Which can make it easier to reach the green regulation or to hit a fairway than it once was the case So it's a long hole like today Phil hit iron and both Nick Taylor and Phil hit iron off the 6t a par 5 at Pebble Beach and he hit 6 iron under the green. So that's exactly what they're talking about there The second thing bunkers dog legs changes, or other features intended to create strategic obstacles on holes may be more easily avoided or become out of play, reducing the need for creative recovery shots and risk reward choices directly relates to the 13th hold of gusts like we were just discussing. And the third thing overall, the increased

hitting distance with driver may allow some holes to effectively, to be effectively overpowered, rewarding an emphasis on sheer distance at the expense of accuracy and other long standing skills. So at this point, this is the point where I just want to give absolute praise to the USDA for the thoroughness of this report. For basically, I can't nitpick the report. I can't say, hey, you missed the boat on this. I'm sure there are, there's a lot of people out there that have studied it closer than I have,

but they are flat out saying all the things and elements that we've said for years on this podcast and in many other places that say, hey guys, something's out of balance here, and here's why, and they stayed it in there. So I encourage people, I know we're reading some highlights, but go read it, just if in case you still are on the other side of this argument, I'm like,

yeah, I don't see what the big deal is. I let him, let him, let him whale on it. It's like, no, no, no. Here's why. Here's why it's important. And it's probably the most important aspect of the game today. Didn't you tell me like this is a year ago

so that you played like an old Seth Reiner course somewhere in Florida, where you could just take it over the dog leg every time and you shot like 69 and you were kind of like, yeah, I mean, it was nice, but it was like, I felt dirty. Yeah, I shot, it was 68 just to be clear, but yeah, it was just kind of like, yeah, the greens were cool, but man, I was like, man, I hit like nine iron wedges and pitches into every hole. And I don't think that's how that was supposed to be.

It was really cool to play. It was mountain lake in down south of Orlando. I think that's where it's located. And it just felt unfulfilled after it. I mean, I felt great about playing in a good round, but I also felt just dirty about some of the corners I was cutting, and the fairways are wide, but they're just we're not designed for people

of that aren't professionals to hit it as far as I'm able to hit it with a wonderful Callaway driver. So, there's that. Okay, the last couple of things from the report and then we can get back to just going hard on this. Even beyond the specific issues discussed above the long term cycle of hitting distance and course length increases has helped

to create a degree of emphasis on distance that we believe is unnecessary and untimely at odds with golf's long term best interest. So this part right here, I wanted to emphasize because even though there's not a pure mission statement that came out of this, you cannot put that in a report and do nothing. Like they have made their bed, they are going to sleep in it, you cannot put that sentence in this last part. For the reasons stated above, we believe that it is time to break the cycle of increasingly longer hitting distances and golf courses and to work to build a long-term future that reinforces golf's essential challenge and enhances the viability of both existing

courses and courses yet to be built. There's a war coming Chris. There's a war coming which side did it come from? So let's get to that. What's the war? If I'm coming off the street, I'm just kind of learning about this history of golf distance space. What's the war? Who's going to war here? Well, I would suppose that, I mean, obviously, the equipment companies are going to fight this. But why explain to me why? Because even I would like to consider myself someone expert on this, but I still struggle with this concept. Why are the equipment companies gonna be freaked out about this? I would say that they probably would argue,

we've put a ton of R&D into our products, and you kind of making up rules that says, we have to limit that sort of message with our intellectual property. And what right do you have, I guess, to sort of... I always said they would maybe challenge the legitimacy of the role that the USDA plays as the sort of rules making governing body over professional golf. So that's where I think it has the potential to get ugly and dirty is, you know, in some

ways, the fact that golf kind of allows the USGA to essentially set its rules professional golf, I kind of wonder if they, if this might lead to essentially them saying, like, you know what, we no longer feel like the USJ should rule over us and the PGA tour is going to make its own rules. And, you know, then that's going to be kind of interesting because that's where the tours frustration in that it doesn't control any of the majors is going to be. And what if the tour says, oh, you know what, you know what, the majors are now, they're Riviera and Sawgrass and Tori Pines and, you know, I don't know, the Northern Tri, whatever,

something the fourth one. Like they could, there's nothing really saying what the majors are. So that's where like, I think it can be it fascinating and it's sort of like, ugliness, it's how ugly do you want it to be? Do you want to essentially say like, hey, don't make Davis like, thanks, peace out,

but you don't like make the rules for. This is deepest take of, hey, I didn't vote for the USGA. Who am I saying that they gutford me? Exactly, yes. That's what makes me nervous about the local rule. Like that right there, what you're just saying. I mean, if the tour says, nah, now we're good. Like what can the USGA really actually do?

I don't know, I guess it sort of, you know, it sort of goes that to the prestige of the US Open, right? If that's the one thing that they control and they're gonna say, this is what we say the rules are and you don't wanna follow them, we're still gonna stand by this. Will professional players boycott the US Open? You know, there's, there's this talk of whatever boycott in the OS open that golf digest got all these, you know, 32 players to say

they were going to do it. I think Rory confirmed later. He was one of them that was sort of contemplating it because they thought the USG was sort of a clown show. Like, there's a real situation where if the USG says this is what it's going to be, we're going to allow tournaments to have a local rule and guess what's going to be one of those tournaments is the US Open and the PGA Tour players, the associations, says we're not buying that, we'll a bunch of them basically punt on playing the US Open and what will that mean for pressure golf? You could get real ugly. You know, that's why we joke as there's a war coming.

I think it is. It's not going to go away because when you write this stuff down and you put it out there, you better be ready to fight. That's why it's probably taken this long. We asked about what took so long because they knew that when it did, when they laid down the gauntlet, that it was going to get ugly. I don't know that there's a back room sort of like compromise here that's going to make you know all the equipment companies in the players happy because the players they don't want the call to be harder man they don't want to miss more with driver they love being able to just rip it and bomb it. Yeah no that's you're convincing me slowly that there is going to be a war.

I guess so this is where I'll be completely honest to everyone listening. If you think there's any, like I said, conflict of interest with us having an equipment sponsor, they have never dictated or even asked, dictate or, you know, questioned us, you know, suggested to us to say anything of any stature, both against or for any rollback, anything. Legitimately, we are opinions are our own. So there is, and this is quite almost to the opposite, there is another equipment company that has been the leader of the conversation that has been against any kind of rollback and has essentially promoted against at all costs, you know, made presentations to say, hey, it's just firmer, and the athletes are better. And hey, look over here, yet still advertising that their golf ball goes really far and is really

good. And you will get no argument for me that their golf ball is really good. But that is where I sense that people believe that there's to be a war to come and that a cushionet would be the one that is forcing the issue from a legal perspective. Is that, is that what you think is gonna happen? I just, I don't know, I still don't know why this would, so the argument there is that they have such a huge market share with their golf ball, that the only thing

that could come from this is to lose market share. And I don't quite fully see the logic in it. I'm not saying that it's a poor logic. I just personally don't see how at the top level they've used a little different ball that it really changes how amateurs buy golf balls. But do you see it differently? balls, but do you see it differently? Well, I think it's just kind of an example of how if you are the kind of winner in capitalism, then you don't want anything to change. Like even if you could sort of say, you'll look like in the long run, this will be better and you'll do fine.

You might not do like, you know, 75% of the ball market fine. You might do 65% or whatever. Like if I'm a business, if I'm a CEO and I have shareholders to please or whatever, I might be like, scream, man, like we're not going it with that. Like it's every company for itself. And so we're gonna fight this to the death essentially.

So, I mean, I don't, you know, titles makes great golf balls. And I don't know that, like, I don't, you know, titles makes great golf balls. And I don't know that like, I don't know how it's going to dramatically change their market share if all golf balls are at the professional level limited, but they feel like, why would we not risk that? Why would we want to introduce that variable, I think. So I don't know. It's kind of eye rolling though.

You can tell which of their players just are reading straight from the propaganda. Paul Casey and Billy Horsel had some tough takes on a Twitter this past week. Paul Casey said the golf courses became longer because the golf developers said if we can make the courses longer We can get four more holes on that four more houses on that hole and two more on that hole That's more money and that's when the manufacturers and the players Including the amateurs rose to the challenge. They had to start hitting the ball longer I don't like us players and the manufacturers getting the blame. We're not the only ones to blame Thank you for the history lesson, Mr. Casey. I don't think that's really what happened

First of all, this is Paul play a lot of tournaments that are lined with houses. Doubting that, that's accurate. I don't think, yeah, I don't think that it's like, hey, let's make golf holes really long now so we could bell houses on them. It might have been, the horse might have been in front of the cart, man, on this one. I don't know, maybe, just maybe, man.

So the logic of that is so wack because it's like, the amount of land is fixed, man. You're not like, no developers being like, all right, well, we should buy a little bit more land so that we can put a lot more. The designer comes in and it's like, all right, what do we got here? Like, oh, we got 500 yards to work with.

Okay, like, how many houses you want to put in? All right, I'll tell you where I want the tees to be. Like, it doesn't work the way in reverse. Why wouldn't they just make every whole apart five if all they were trying to do was build, sell houses. Oh, man, Rory would be so good at that. Billy Horshull, he says, I agree the Provi won made a massive difference, but probably the thing that has the same effect, the same effect as the ball over the last 10 years or so would be radar measuring devices, track man or products similar to track man. Mr. Horshull, may ask you a question. If I'm going to take away

one of these things, one being the combination of your driver and your golf ball or your track man, which one would you prefer that I take away? Which one are you going to let me take away? See, this is an opportunity for Billy to get on board with my take, which is that we should limit the height of T. I've always loved this one no big There's so as those are not familiar with those who are not frequent members of the NLU message board There's no big T lobby to push back against right? That's the I don't think big T has a lot of power So to me like as you understand a little bit about the golf swing which I only understand like a little bit

But like part of what makes them be able to Hit it so far is that they launched the ball up and off. When guys learned how to essentially increase their launch angle, that's what it led to a lot of huge gains and distance. So if you limited the height to tease to say two inches or three inches or whatever, most guys would still kind of have to hit down on the ball.

And that would naturally reduce distance. You can have the same clubs, you can have the same ball. You might just hit it 15, 20 yard shorter because you just aren't able to sort of like sky it as much as you used to. And I feel like who's gonna fight back against this? So maybe Billy should be get on board with the KV take the same golf by just saying,

we're gonna instead of taking away your R&D, whatever man, like a lot more people are gonna have to have three without fatigue because you're just not gonna be able to launch it in here. He teased it kind of little, I think, if I remember right anyways, this would be great for him. I just love your arguments from the people that are using all the technology that the technology is not that big of a

difference yet. They're also trying to sell you on the technology being amazing for your game. It's like, what you got to pick one, guys, this goes to title is two guys like guys your golf ball goes far, like the Calaway Cromesoft, it goes far. Like the Taylor and the Ball, it goes far. They all go far. They're all great golf balls. Don't try to give us a study that shows, oh, it's just, you know, the turf conditions in the athletes are what's making it go far. Your golf balls go far. It's what you're selling us on. That's why it's why people buy them. I mean, come on. You can't talk

out of both ends of your mouth. Whenever I think about it in terms of baseball, I think like, if, when you ever see, like a baseball player hit a home run that goes like into the upper deck, if you're into baseball, you're like, wow, that ball was mashed. Now imagine every home run goes into the upper deck. You'd be like, eh, well, I want to see one go out of the stadium because that's the only thing that's going to excite me. And in golf, what is that essentially happening? Is that every other drive goes into the upper deck? And so it's not that special anymore. And so that's what I don't think like the players are sort of grasping. Is it like, it doesn't seem to be a particularly like great skill for people who follow golf that closely,

because I've, there's no drive that someone could hit right now that would make me like like oh my god like I think Bubba the last time it happened was Bubba hit that shot 13 just because he took it at such an insane angle that no one had ever really seen someone do it's just like I'm just like I move past two more Billy Horses who tweets which one was was, where am I blaming the course designer, Sully? I do think that course design over the last 20 years isn't anywhere as good as the designs from McKenzie, Ross, Rainer, and many other old-school architects that I love. Yeah, man, you can't play those courses anymore

because the bulk of those stuff. And then, so this goes back to the housing thing and he says, he was responding to somebody. He said, I was presented with vast research a few years ago that showed in the 90s courses that started being built, were being built dramatically longer than before. Developers wanted championship courses.

It was believed a championship course you had to have length also developers. It's like, okay. Developers. Developers fault. Yeah, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, It's like,

It's like, It's like, It's like, It's like, It's like, It's like, It's like, It's like, It's like,

It's like, It's like, It's like, It's like, It's like, It's like, It's like, It's like, It's like, It's like,

It's like, It's like, It's like, It's like, It's like, It's like, It's like, It's like, It's like, It's like, very strongly for distance because we can be a little bit echo chamber here with how we think that distance the game is not as good when the ball goes this far. But anything else from this conversation that we that we need to cover. No, I think we pretty much have beaten this horse to a bloody pulp, but I mean, I just I don't know. I do wonder like in our lifetime, are we going to see

it change or is it, you know, is the USDA going to sort of throw up its hands and say, all right, fine. Like we tried and there's just, we're, that's too much toothpaste out of the two. I don't know what's going to happen. I'm just, again, want to congratulate the USGA on this, on coming to this conclusion. It was a long time coming, but, and I get why you haven't done it, despite us making fun of you for not doing it, but here we are It's here and golf is going to change. This is a landmark moment. I'd be hard pressed to I will argue with anyone the things It's not

Two the one thing I wanted to get out before we left Bryson was named to size top 50 fittest athletes name to Si's top 50 fittest athletes. Yeah, I've actually did that in the top 5,000 athletes in the world. I mean, look, I think, first of all, I just want to say, if Bryson's listening, Bryson, I think you're great for the game, even though you're weirdo, because I love different personalities. But that, that gift, whatever that he tweeted out of himself, he just looks kind of like a chunky boy. He's like, you didn't look like that.

He's like, you didn't look like that. He's like, you didn't look like that. He's like, you didn't look like that. He's like, you didn't look like that. He's like, you didn't look like that. I mean, look, God bless S.I. like, I hope they hang in there. But it's just sort of evidence to me of like, just kind of pandering to someone who they know would sort of tweet out their link or whatever because I don't even think Bryson's probably one of the top 25 fitness golfers and he certainly like he would be like the

I mean look we there's a great example of this is it like we talked all the for years about what we'll all kept us such a leave that athlete man kept this so like He's a linebacker man, and then when we had him post for it Yes, we had a magazine for the body issue. He looked like a pretty much no I mean he was fit sure, but like I mean I've been in a lot of NFL locker rooms and like I think Brooks would probably fit in with like the punter. Yes in the NFL locker room man like and in the NBA fit in with like the punter. Yes.

In the NFL locker room, man. And in the NBA locker room, where those guys are 6'8 and they're like, sinewy and ripped and have to run all night. No, I mean, have you ever seen Christiana Ronaldo with his shirt off? Like, that's a fit athlete. That's not like a thick boy who hits it, you know, 3'20. Like, I still think it's funny too,

that like, Bryson thinks that this is like a good strategy for him so far when the results have been pretty disastrous as far I hope so because I like having him around even though he's like an easy guy to kind of How big is Brooks gonna get is the only question I have Another chip on the shoulder also TC has been hearing that there's gonna be a big premier golf league pitch This week out in LA to the players. So our years will be to the street about how that goes Do you think it'll be like in the like secret back room like in the Copa band? Absolutely no ideas the first I'm hearing this was tonight. So let's let's see what happens

Anything else we're missing from this this past week in golf. I think so I mean, I you know I Feel ready for RIV. I love RIV, man. The RIV is so great. RIV is kind of like my fifth major. I've been the last two years, not going this year. Kind of sad about it. But of course, that's a lot of different people compete, a lot of fun history.

Would it be neat if Tiger got 83 here at RIV where he's never won? Like that would be kind of a neat. Yeah, it would. He was pretty lights out for a while for a stretch last year, like that Saturday when he was going nuts. Yeah, I got to tell you too, we did the players media day this past week. I'm weirdly amped for the players this year.

I know we tease the tour about the players, but I'm excited for it. I'm really excited for it. I kind of jacks and bill. Having been here for three years now. It's kind of got a little rhythm for the week and I'm excited for it. So I'm in on the players too.

I got to say like I used to be sort of skeptical and like joke like, oh man, like they're trying to make this the fifth major or whatever. Man, it's fun. It's always, the players is great. I've actually rewatched the other day when Ricky and Kevin Kysner are going at it and that playoff and that, man that, I wish we could get that version of Rick back.

Guy was freaking throwing darts at pins and making like, you know, Eagle Birdie birdie to get into a playoff. That was really awesome. And that's, you know, it was awesome watch worry last year too. There's one thing we know, there's one thing we know that walk from 16 T to 17 17 16 green to 17 T is just about 50 to 100 yards too long. So 50 to 100 yards. Got. Did you read Roy's I haven't read part two yet. No, I will hopefully get to it here soon. But I just want to be Roy's buddy. He's just such a There's just so many things in him that I'm like, God, what a real person. What a great example for how a professional athlete,

I wish they all were like this, because it's just, he's the real one. So KVB, thank you for joining us on your Sunday night and for your contributions here, as always, we greatly, greatly appreciate them. But we needed a journalist for this very important conversation in today's game, so. Well, you know, sometimes I play the role journalists.

Sometimes I play the role of bad Gary Player in person. I would. Yes. Well, let me say goodnight to Mr. Player then as well and wish you a happy rest of the month and happy black history month to Mr. Gary Player. Because of a never ever bring that up again. That was a long time ago. I did not write those things. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Andela, didn't you, Mr. Player? I did, it's true! I was responsible. I don't want to take all the credits just most of you. All right, sir.

Thank you so much for joining, and thank you, everybody, for tuning in. Good night. It's going to be the right club. Be the right club today. Yes! Be the right club! That's better than most. How about it? That is better than most.

How about in? That is better than most. Better than most.