No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 280: Paul Azinger

Episode Date: February 12, 2020

Paul Azinger joins to talk about his first year with NBC, replacing Johnny Miller, Tommy Roy, playing under pressure, and the Patrick Reed situation. We also chat Ryder Cup, Anthony Kim, the Presidents Cup, as well as a great Tiger story from the flight to Melbourne.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yeah. That is better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No-Lang Up Podcast. We have a great interview with Paul Azinger coming your way here shortly. I was down in the area and I wanted to hit him up. We were working on some Ryder Cup stuff, so we hit him up to do some video.

It's a hey, while we're down here, we'd like to catch up with you on the pod. It's been a couple years since you were on and he's been covering live golf for NBC in that time period. Want to get his feedback on how that was going and a bunch of other issues in the game of golf. I promise we are going to get eventually get younger with the the guests that we're going to be having with the upcoming Florida swing. I was not not scheduled for us to have this many guys

in their 60s and even 70s consecutively, but it's just how it's worked out and how it usually works out while the big boys are out on the West Coast. So the previous episode, we covered the USGA distance report we talked a lot about. Golf equipment, technology, and as it relates to that, I've been made aware there are clubs that fit in your bag in between fairway woods and your irons. They're apparently called hybrids. I am also, I have to read off

of this sheet that they put in front of me. I am obligated to say that Sully thinks he's a better player than he is and refuses to try the hybrids. I cannot confirm or deny that. That is literally written in the copy. But you won't be surprised to learn that our friends at Calloway Golf have a full family of new Maverick hybrids. Hybrids, see I can't even say the word.

And just like in the Maverick driver lineup, they use artificial intelligence to design unique faces for each Maverick hybrid head. They're each built with specific player types in mind. So there's a Maverick hybrid for just about everyone, the Maverick and the Maverick Pro, which is available all the way down to the two hybrid. Oh, actually, that does sound quite appealing. And there's those who need a bit more help.

There's the max, which goes all the way to the eight hybrid, the Ocho. I bet that's got... I don't know how far in a big Randy's future the eight hybrid is, but it's not as far away as you might think. Artificial intelligence has optimized all of them and they are built for distance. Check out Maverick hybrids today, caligolf.com. That's caligolf.com. Here is Paul Azinger. What's the transition from one week of PJ tour golf a

Year been like to now doing however many weeks you're doing now in PJ tour going from Fox US open being your one PJ tour week Now your NBC a lot of weeks a year. What's that like? Just the broadcasting part of it. Yes Yeah, it's easy enough. I mean, it was just a really completely different dynamic at NBC walking into that trailer and seeing the guys that, you know, I've known all those guys for a long time, Gary and Roger and Noda and God, who am I leaving out?

Doesn't matter, bones. I've known those guys forever, but it was just a weird dynamic to walk in there. You know, I started out at ABC with Mark Lumis as my producer and Fowldo and I started out together doing 20 tournaments a year. We did that for two years. ABC left off in the new big negotiation and I kept my card that year and broadcast 20 events.

It was pretty amazing. I didn't know that. It's 20 events. It was pretty amazing honestly. I didn't know that. Yeah, 20 events with your card. And kept my card. And then Fowldo ended up getting a job at CVS. And I kept playing and kept my contract with ABC turned into ESPN. And we did five a year, a couple of days of the Masters

of US Open the first two days, kept the British. Then eventually, it just became the open championship and that was only one a year with ESPN and when they lost that my contract ended and then Luma called me now working at Fox to ask me about that and it just worked out. The timing was perfect. They moved Greg out of there and brought me in and got to do the US Open in a few other events. So three or four years, you're right. So I was really had a lot of anxiety about the upcoming schedule with NBC. A lot of angst about it because I got to go to Phoenix and let Johnny retire on Saturday

and then I have to start on Sunday. There was a lot of anxiety for that. I have to tell you that. That's a no-win situation, taking over for Johnny Miller. Yeah, that is, you know, it's probably's probably a no win but I didn't look at it like that as much as just the anxiety of waiting for it I felt like I could be myself I'm still trying to be myself in that broadcast booth with NBC is it hard to do yeah it's fast pace why is that it just just fast pace but anyway

just real quick I started out Sunday at Phoenix to do the final round, which was, you know, I'm glad to get that. I got that behind me. Then way to go to Mexico City. I didn't know what Mexico City was like. I haven't been down there in a while. So there were some of that anticipation anxiety. They got through that.

Next thing is the floor to swing up to the players. Got through that. Then six weeks off, US Open. Women's and men's got through that. And six more weeks off, the British Open with NBC got back to seeing those guys again. You know, it's different, but everything I felt like I got through last year and now my rookie year is over. I think I'll be a little bit more myself, maybe be able to contribute a little bit more

idealized. I think I'll be a little bit more myself, maybe be able to contribute a little bit more Ideal eyes. I just kind of wanted to sit back my first year at NBC and see how they do things there The experts Tommy Roy is one 32 Emmys. Tommy Randolph's been there forever. Doug Graver is setting cameras and he's brilliant You know, they've got it put together there Dan Hicks is off the charts. So I didn't want to get in their way and But now I feel like I see some things that I had to adjust to, just like time to get in and say what I'm supposed to say. But it's a fast-paced show. Tommy gets a lot of people in. It's quick and quick out.

He doesn't lolly gag around. And he's a quick decision maker maker and I love working for him. That's what I think I'm starting to gain more and more appreciation for for when announcers are up and that's what I want to compare how that works between Fox and NBC. It seems like with NBC and PJ Torgulf with how tight the coverage windows are in between commercial breaks. There's a lot more commercial breaks. It seems like it it's just fast. It's like hey you're up go up, go, you got eight seconds to do this, and then you're out. You don't have that opportunity to really flesh out a thought, and you're as much as

when things are stuck in a longer shot with Fox or the US open. Am I on to something there, at least a little bit? Absolutely, on to something. Gil Caps, who sits between Dan Hicks and I, and has a bunch of data for us, if we need it, and he holds a scorecard, a scoreboard for Hicks, I and has a bunch of data for us if we need it and he holds a scorecard, a scoreboard for Hicks, I talked to him about it and he thinks, you know, he said to me, you know, sometimes when you don't have a lot of time, you don't get yourself in trouble. I didn't think about it like that, that's brilliant. But the philosophy is to get as many shots in

as you can. Sure. And you know what, it's easier. And, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in But Sunday's the day when you have to peak and really have your thoughts together and know what's happened in the meantime. But the great thing with NBC that I'm not used to is that when we come on air Saturday, Sunday, they're already on the 5th hole, so the story is writing itself at Fox in the US open. We'll be on air two hours before the leaders come off. And I feel more of a burden or a responsibility to almost not an essay, but to just analyze

the how they're thinking when their brain shuts off if it can and when it clicks back. All that stuff that my goal is to let the picture be descriptive and I try to be informative. That's the bottom line because we can watch it with the mute button on, but it is a different style. I get to be informative much faster at NBC. That's what I'm getting at is I love the opportunity to talk to broadcasters and let them. You can see air out all your thoughts here.

There's no air out up against any bumper of any kind. And that's what I think you guys can come under fire from a lot of people and that your job's hard. Like it's hard to be like, A, on, go, be insightful and get out on time. Like that's a hard thing to do. Three things at once once pretty much there. Well, you can hear yourself,

you can hear the producer right in your ear and talking where we're going next. Could be talking why, you know, I'm sure he tries not to, but he could be. And that's part of it, but you get used to it, I think I don't hear it as much. So you think differently, you think in blurts, I think in blurts. Quick little blurbs, maybe blurbs or what's in blur. Quick blurbs.

What's the, I mean, you're not really on Twitter anymore. What's the feedback been like for you since you've been to NBC? What's in what's the medium for which you receive feedback from? Media wise I haven't had like great stories of success or great stories of failure, you know, like I say my rookie years over and that everything from now on is going to be familiar. They're going to be familiar with me. I'm familiar with them. They know me now, Hicks knows me. I know Dan and I just feel like that I'm going to be a lot more relaxed and hope maybe a little bit different this next season, but I forget even what you asked me now. No, that's just, I mean, basically what I'm, what I'm, what I'm, what I'm, what people criticize like on Twitter, I mean, that's what you want Twitter for is to roast people and honestly. I mean, that's the fun of Twitter

It's that what it's all about so I take it with a grain of salt if I get killed on Twitter and the mentions or whatever All I have to do is look to see who else is getting slaughtered that is great Broadcast everyone I'm getting. Yeah, it's not a barometer anymore. You're not going to, it's not, you're not set up with an opportunity for, I'm saying your job is not, it's really hard to have an amazing day. You know what I mean? It's hard to do a part of it.

But how do you even quantify an amazing day? Do you remember when I said this? How about when I said that? You know, now I want credit for saying that at the end of the president's cup, I said, you know, now I want credit for saying that at the end of the president's cup I said, you know, if you're a fantasy golf guy You might want to load up on some of these players because the international team all left with confidence So the American team because they win and in their all in mid-season form at the start of the season

It's sure enough here. They go yet three guys from president's cup in the tournament of champions Justin Thomas, Zander Shoffley, and yeah, all these guys went... Patrick Reed was in the playoffs there. All Presidents Cup players, so... But it's like, I want to say. Does anyone remember when I said that? It's stupid, because you just say it. It just comes out.

It's either... It's remembered when it's wrong, and it's usually not remembered when it's wrong and it's usually not Remembered ones that's that sounds pretty accurate Faxon told a great story on here about the first NBC broadcast he ever did and something that Tommy Roy wrote on a piece of paper for him All it said was no shit. Does that sound familiar at all? Yeah, what's that mean? Do you know what that means that that means Get in get out. It will have time to blather on. Don't tell, we don't wanna know what you did last night.

We don't wanna know who you talk to. Talk about the shot, get in, get out. You know, that job that Faxon has and that Gary Koch has and Ferry McCord was doing it. Now, Aaron Obleholz is doing it at CBS. Those are hard jobs being a hole in house. Or Black Mar was over in Morocco. Sorry, Black Mar was in Morocco.

And was sitting in the analyst's chair. It's, he just said, oh my God, so nice. You're not have to know everything about every player that's coming on your hole. It's a different deal. But that was just basically don't say anything that the viewer at home can see on the screen. Yeah, I don't.

So what I'm just, my lead in there is, what are rules of broadcasting? Are there any other rules that you try to follow? Bacon pointed out some to me, such as, you know, don't try to guess where the ball's gonna go. Like we're gonna find out in two seconds anyway. Those are the rules. There are several rules.

I'll tell you, that's one big one. Don't guess where it's going to go. There's a sequence of order at NBC Tommy Roy doesn't want us to speculate on you know of tiger stretching you speculate maybe is Maybe his hand he's a little tired. He doesn't even want that which is fine. I get it But the sequence of order is Well, you can't talk all the ball what contacts being made Tommy Roy's big sell Gary Koch And I talked about this the other day. I really wasn't aware of it, but being made. Tommy Roy's big sell Gary Koch and I talked about this the other day. I really wasn't aware of it, but his big thing, the producer, is that he wants to hear the ball get hit

because he feels like there's nothing that can bring the viewer in any closer to the telecast and the sound of contact. So that's a big thing and our sequence of order is the whole host, Hicks or Koch or Faredi will go first. They bring in the guy in the ground, if there's a guy on the ground, and then the guy on the ground will set up the shot. If he doesn't stop before impact, I don't say anything, I just lay out. Once impact happens, the guy on the ground has to tell you where it's going. If I jump in there and say something while before the guy tells you where it's going, I get yelled at. So there's a sequence of order, but there's while before the guy tells you where it's going, I get yelled at. So there's a sequence of order, but there's sometimes when the guy in the ground is going to go right up to the shot and I'm just out, there's no big deal.

Unless I'm dying to say something like that. Yeah, but I might jump in on the shot real quick and then get out real quick and I get yelled at. And then whoever's on the ground can describe the shot. So there is a sequence of order. We have rules. The first thing I ever said when Mark Loomis was asking me about the job back in 05 or 06, I said, can I say anything I want?

He says, you could say anything you want once. I said, that's fair. That's pretty good. Well, what's something that you feel like you've learned? The most important thing you've learned about broadcasting from the day when you started that you know now that you feel like is the most important thing you could have learned. Oh, boy. I think as much as anything, let the picture be descriptive.

And just remember, nobody's tuning in to hear you. They're tuning in to watch the golf, whether or not you're doing it. Or if John Grudens called Monday Night Football, or if he's not, I'm still gonna watch it, doesn't matter who it is. And I think the most important thing is to be able to give an insight, you know, and not say too much. Get in, get out,

be distinct, be confident, you know, not wishy washy. I did swings last a couple weeks ago in Hawaii and some of the swings I'd see for the first time ever from behind. And then when we showed the replay, the producers say we're going to do the swing and I'd see it for the first time in my life, because we had so many players in Hawaii. You didn't know who they were. And then they'd show it from face on a different angle. So I tried to, I remember, I asked Peter Cossus one time about how you, why are your conic of Manulta swing visions so good?

And he said, well, I well, if I'm calling swings, I don't even, I get lost. He said, I'll focus on one thing on the backswing and one thing on the downswing. And if I want to throw anything else in there, I will. And so I would watch these guys, and I would randomly just say in Hawaii, I would just say, watch his left knee. Now I didn't know what his left knee was gonna do.

But I said, and it was watch his left knee. Now I didn't know what is left knee was gonna do But I said and it was watches left foot watches right short watches head and Everybody was watching would watch his head and then we're all watching together whether it moved or not And then I would just comment that's so still It's just and it within but being fatic Mm-hmm. Just believe what you're saying. You want to be believable. You know, that's the key. And you want to have credibility. I played 30 years.

So I have an idea what they're dealing with out there emotionally. And then, but then there's other to your players, like a Rory or somebody like Tiger, who's not dealing with the same thing, Brendan Steele. And, you know, those Cameron Smith were dealing with. That's a whole other thing for them. Life-changing. If you are listening to this interview with Paul Azinger, and those Cameron Smith were dealing with. That's a whole another thing for them. Life changing. If you are listening to this interview with Paul Azinger,

then episode three of TaurusSauce is live on our YouTube channel. This season is brought to you by our friends at Original Penguin, a great apparel company that you'll see us wearing throughout the season. I got, and people, the original Penguin guys were actually kind of surprised. We've been, kind of, some pictures have been posted as wearing the gear outside of the

tourist saw season. They're kind of like, wow, huh? Not everyone that we work with does that. It's because we legitimately like it. I wore a hoodie on the golf course the other day with Neil. I don't know how many DMs I got on Instagram asking where the hoodie was from. You know where it's from. It's from original penguin.

They got great styles for both on the golf course and off the golf course. I think that was probably intended to be some of the off the golf course stuff But it goes both ways you can wear it on and off They got styles for everyone they got wild stuff What you're gonna see on TC and Neil this season and they got more conservative stuff Always remember to be an original so go and check out our episode on YouTube and swing by original penguin.com Check out the the cool threads that got there.

Let's get back to our interview with Paul Azinger. Well I think that especially where your experience pays off is coming down the stretch in the pressure situations. And I think we kind of touched on this the last time you were on the podcast, but I didn't dive deep enough in something you mentioned called progressive relaxation. I remember that word, but I don't really remember what it means, but you've always been very open about how you dealt with nerves on the golf course in pressure situations. And I think by the end of Miller's career, people made almost a meme out of, oh, that's just nerves right there. But I really enjoy the way you talk about how pressure affects people.

So I'm wondering if you can tell us about progressive relaxation. What it's like to go down the stretch of a tour event as you're trying to win it. Nerves are the best part of the sport. It's why we watch. It's what you do with when you play for $5 national or club championship. You know, we're all the same. But Michael Phelps doesn't win all those gold medals if he's not nervous ahead of time. If he's just in the pool with his buddies or he's not setting any world records, it takes

pressure to create those moments that are so great, but you have to learn how to cope and deal. First, you have to embrace the want to be. I want to be out there and exposed. That was what I went through. I'm sure Tiger went through it, but he went through it when he was 12 or 14. I went through it.

Maybe when I was 24 or five, when I started to get in contention periodically and you embrace that or you shy off from it. So I tried to embrace it. Bert Jansi told me once you want to be so nervous, you can't spit and it really resonated with me because if you're not, you're back in the middle of the pack and that's not what you want.

So I tried to elevate and I got to where I embraced the pressure then I succeeded in the pressure a few times. and then all of a sudden it just changes. And my perspective changed too. I tried to make history not to make money which was a nice luxury to have, not everybody can have that luxury. When Brett quickly just won I don't think he really needs the money but he needs status and he was choking for status and he got it. Yeah, it's just nerves are part of it.

But you get to a point, it's like giving a speech, you know, at first you can't even imagine getting in front of 600 people and speaking to them. And you're throwing up maybe. I don't know. And then you've done it enough. It's like falling off a log. That's where Tiger and Rory are.

And that maybe is where Keepka has gotten to. Guys like Dustin Johnson, I don't think are freaking out. So when you say nerves then, it's not nerves as in butterflies, it's not nerves and handshaking. It's more nerves in your brain where you let negative stuff jump in there. You know, the swing takes a second and a half. All the things that can jump in your brain in that second and a half emotion, when you're great, nothing jumps in there. You know, the swing takes a second and a half. All the things that can jump in your brain in that second and a half emotion, when you're great, nothing jumps in there

to slow down the fluidity of your motion. You're picturing in a shot or whatever it is. And the nerves are different. But doesn't mean negative thoughts can't come in on Rory. Doesn't mean he's not battling something. It's fascinating. So the mental battle exists even if the butterflies aren't there. And kind of what I wanted to get at there is you touched on it there, but it's impossible to tell somebody, don't be nervous, like hey, don't be nervous. When people get nervous, that's my instinctive advice. Like, oh, just don't be, but I don't know how you address that. You know what I mean? And you mentioned the progressive relaxation. Oh, sorry.

No, I'll get it. I just want to hear kind of, and I remember you talking about breathing, but I was, if you, anybody that gets nervous in their weekend game at any point, what can you teach them that's like, hey, this will potentially help you kind of deal with that. Well, you have to talk to yourself, talk to yourself.

And you have to do certain things. Visualization is huge When I'm in the dentist chair. I just sit there and Create my mouth open a comfortable amount and plague off courses in my head Because it gets me through being at the dentist. I redirected my way right out of there. So you use those kind of You know, I guess skill sets To get yourself in out of tough situations mentally But But if you're at home and you have shaky hands, I really do believe that you can deep-breed your way into a better place mentally and then relax and ask why am I nervous, prioritize

what the heck you're doing. If we're on the course and you're freaking out out there, there are definitely exercises that can calm you down. At this generation's addressed all that. We were learning that sort of thing. Guys were showing up that were sports psychologists sort of. The old adage when Greg Norman was on the tour that the difference with Greg and Jack, because there were no sports psychologists in Jack's generation.

And they said, oh, the difference in Greg and Jack was that the sports Psychologists go to see Jack and Greg goes to see the sports psychologists That's kind of how that went but with sports psychology now to where it is these guys They all know how to approach things mentally and when you see You know look on a guy's face and they say they give the cliche You know one shot at a time, don't get him, I don't get ahead of myself. When we zoom in on that shot,

that's what he's trying to do, right then, and that's what's going on in his head. So there are drills and exercises and they figure out how to do it. We all do. This could be just my childhood, not remembering this right, but I feel like growing up and then maybe even a decade

or even more than that ago, when I tuned into the back night on Sunday, I felt like I had a good grasp that guys were nervous. I felt like I could see that at times and I feel like leads were lost more frequently through poor play coming down the stretch and I just don't get that sense nearly when I'm watching Torgolf now.

I don't watch in to be like, oh, I wonder if this guy's gonna blow it here because it feels like guys have gotten better at closing. Do you think that that is the mental effect kind of that you're speaking to now or am I imagining that conundrum to begin with? No, that's actually probably true. There's so much that goes into playing the tour now

and the whole mental part of it, they've all heard how to apply all these skill sets and practice these certain techniques to get their mind straight. Every one of them that plays at this level has gotten to that point. But then you do, you know, they've got so much to deal with, the analytics, the social media, the social media's pressure, I think, because if you know if you hit a crummy shot, you're going to get two thumbs, fire and at you, and the blink a crummy shot you're gonna get two thumbs fire in at you

In the blink of an eye calling you choker guys like Polter that are really out there How many times has he been called a choker on Twitter? Probably a million I couldn't handle it personally, but these guys can handle it. They just they know how to deal The pressure on Sunday it depends who it is You know when Tiger walks up there on Sunday, he's not feeling the same as Brendan Steele might have been feeling a couple weeks ago. It's just not the same. Even Xander Shoffley's not feeling like Tiger is when Tiger shows up. But it's something you get used to.

We all get used to it. We get used to all of it. And then it becomes something that you just deal with without much issue. Well, you mentioned the presence cup a bit earlier, just wondering what that is like to broadcast. Do you go all the way to Australia to see Roe Melbourne and golf courses? It's very different from anything else you see

and how much fun is that event to broadcast? It was great. Roe Melbourne would have been my all-time favorite golf course except for that it's two courses put together to be one. So that is the only thing. There's very few places I've ever been where every single hole I just walked up on the hole and just said, oh wow look at this look at this hole. The great part about that whole trip we were in the Bahamas and we were able to get on the charter about four of us with NBC, Hicks

was on there, producers were on there and everybody else was coming from different places. And we were on with the team. We stopped in Ocapoca for three hours from the Bahamas to Refuel, it took forever. And there was a killer plane. And I was able to go up, we all did, hang with the players up there in the big round tables like when we were sitting at here, a bar in them, people serving during. It was just unreal.

We were on that plane for 26 hours, but it was just so fun to get to know them and to see what the deal was. When it was wheels up in Ocapoca, there was no more alcohol for that team until they left or until they won. Those guys were pretty relaxed, but also at the same time they were pretty disciplined. And I had a great time up there. Tiger had a couple of drinks and he was having a big time and and Kutra was hilarious. He loves this particular brand at Tequila. He was killer. Tiger was cutting cards for like a hundred dollars a cut high low. I can walk in in there. I haven't

said, you know Tiger and I don't talk. I was one of the guys at ESPN that had to do sports center hits on him when he was going through everything. It was hard because I love Tiger. I've rider cut partners on that, but you know, he looks at me, but we don't really talk that much anymore. I'm TV now, so it's all right. But we still talk. But anyway, I walked into that area, part of the curtains, go up there, and where all the players are hanging, and he's tiger looks at me, he goes, zingy, zingy, come over here, cut me 100 high, low, high, low. I'm not doing that, but he was ready to go.

And you know, he just was one of the guys. His hat was on backwards, he was wearing a t-shirt. Those players love him. It was great to see Tiger look like that, and be that guy to a whole generation of kids that don't even remember one thing about me. I remember the day Tiger showed up. They don't know a squad about me. I've gone that old to where I remember Tiger when he showed up untouchable.

Couldn't get in that inner circle. Couldn't get near him for a practice round. If I wanted to play a practice round, it would have been impossible to play a practice round with Tiger. He was locked up, O'Meara cooked, maybe. It's a different guy, man. He just let his guard down. He went from uncomfortable, if you're comfortable with him,

to more uncomfortable, if you're not comfortable with him, Tiger, and I like this Tiger more. I don't know if he'll ever be, he won't be as good as the other Tiger, but that's the body. But after seeing that and then seeing the comeback, I feel like after striker's president's cup, or rider cup, he's president's cup, yeah, after striker's rider cup, it was constant. I think that the tour and the PJ of America should name tiger all-time captain. If the PJ of America really wants to win, and maybe the win was strict, they need to get rid of that attitude that there's more captains than there are rider cups. That I would have loved to have done several rider

cups. Instead of 18 or 19 living captains, I think it would have been great, you know, if there was 11 living captains. Maybe I would have never been a captain because the captains before me would have capped in for a few years. But the attitude of the PGA America has always been more, we just want to give you the honor of being the captain and also the punishment of what that did for how you're going to be remembered because you got your butt handed to you.

Well, how important is it, I'm realizing I'm asking a former player in this regard, but how important is it? How necessary is it for a player to be the captain of the Ryder Cup team? Oh, you're thinking like bringing... That's an open-ended question. I'm just saying how? Why does that have to be played? Baseball for players. Yeah, you're right. It doesn't. It doesn't. But it should. You know, anybody could do it, I suppose. Ken Venturi, Captain of the President's Cup team, and he didn't know what clubs, players were using all that.

He knew how golf worked, and he knows how personalities work, I think. He knew that. Yeah, I think, I mean, you'll never go outside of the players being the captains. I think the one rule that needed to go away all together was the idea that you had to have won a major to be a Ryder Cup captain is stupid. And it's amazing when you hear people talk about the reasons why people get selected and

that, oh, he's got all this experience. He's got so much experience. Oh, yeah, he's a PGA champion. He was a gutty player. Yeah. Guddy Ryder Cup. He's a all this experience. Oh, he's a PGA champion. He was a gutty player. He was a gutty rider. He's a good match player. Just like, I don't think that's the reason. Some of the teams that have won, I don't think it's because the player won a major 20 years before prior to that. I mean, so that's where, and I know we've talked, we've talked, we've talked, oh, wait with you, I know, and I know we've talked about the philosophy behind that team

you built, but how did you win the cap and see how did you become the captain and how did you present that strategy? I, at the right age, at the right time, I was really a pretty lucky rider cup player. I got great pairings. I could have had obscure rider cups. had obscure rider cups, but because you know you hand in the envelope, the Europe hands in and envelope, we hand in it, I'm open them up and you see what sequence of order they'll go. You're not looking for matches, but I always played all their best players. I suppose I could say I was really unlucky. I drew all their best players, but it made more marquee opportunity for me and I played really well against Sevy and Jose and I you know chip back and I beat Fowl and Wuzdom but to draw Fowl and Wuzdom they'd never been beaten. It's hard luck But it was great a great opportunity

So I had that reputation as a Ryder Cup player then I won the PJ championship I got sick after that, but I had endeared myself to them a little bit So I got offered the opportunity to captain in 06 after pain had passed and I really didn't want to do that. I just didn't and I also wanted to be the Captain in America. You just wanted a homeland. I did want to be yeah that was you know day stocking call me and said don't do it. So it was promised to me oh wait I'd 48 years old. They got slaughtered in 06 and 04, bossed by nine points. Never been never happened before. Two times in a row just wiped out.

And who was a captain? Oh, sick. Layman was the captain. He had other guys. Cory was in there. But Cory apparently was going to be all of a sudden he must have been in there. La Javier or something because I got a call from a past president of the PJ of America said, Zinger. You still want to be the captain for O8?

I said, yeah, I thought I was, I thought that was the case because it's getting ready, you're getting ready to lose it. So I had to call the PJ of America and I talked to the president of the PJ of America at the time Roger Warren and I lobbied. I lobbied my idea, which was to take a large group of twelve and break them into three small groups of four. And then the idea was to put them together. I didn't actually have this at the time, but to put them together by like personalities. But I just told them that I wanted to take that Navy SEAL's concept of team building. Turns out Roger Warren was an ex-b next basketball coach and he loved it and embraced it.

And I ended up getting it, but I had to lob before. It was promised to me and I had to lob before. That's kind of the disconnect between the tour and the PJ of America too. So a real example of how much turnover and change there can be. But I really believe if the PJ of America wants to win these rider cups now, or winning is what matters. You know, European tour owns their Ryder Cup. The PGA of America owns are not the PGA tour.

And I would just make Tiger all-time captain. I like that idea. A couple of big things that have gone on in the world of golf. One that puts you, I believe, as a broadcaster with NBC, that has a partnership with the PGA tour, is put you in a difficult situation. Is the incident that happened with Patrick Reed in the Bahamas, right before the president's cup, and the out, the kind of the backlash that has come from that? Let's start simple with this.

Do you think his punishment, two-shot penalty, and continue on? Do you think that was a just punishment for the violation. It doesn't seem like it because it seems so blatant. The best compliment I got over that whole situation was from a guy named Steve U-Banks who writes for golf, what's it called? Global golf post. He said, you struck the right toe, which was really all we could do. That was a tough situation, but I was so happy to be on the call live. Hicks and I went and talked to Patrick Reed Sunday morning because we kept hearing

what everybody else was saying, but we felt like we wanted to hear it from him. So we approached him and pretty much the question Hicks asked him, I think, was, we've heard from everybody else, what do you want us to say? Brilliant. So he just we asked him you know uh did you know the rule? He said I knew the rule. I didn't feel like I really improved my lie. He went right back to the camera angle thing and then I just asked him or maybe Dan did did you see the sand mover feel it move? And he said no. I mean, I don't know.

I just looked at Dan, I said, I don't know. I said, you know, we'll report what he said to have an opinion about it is different than reporting what he said. I felt like that was our responsibility, but my take on it was that the highest handicap player at your home course knows better than that. And it was a tough situation.

Plus, he's on the plane on that charter going over there to the president's cup, too. So interesting dynamic, I don't know what was going through his head when that happened. He said he knew the rule. There's a part of me in that situation. I wish I would have done something a little different. Because the ball sitting there, you got that lump of sand behind it and he switched it away with his club twice

and threw it out there. He said he never saw it move, never felt it. But what's the difference if he goes down there and picks it up one grain at a time? How far down could he get to the bottom before it becomes a breach? And we remember the official standing over Stuart Sink at Hilton Head when he was down there and he was flicking the thing out of there one at a time. So I almost wanted, I think we almost let the rules of ruling body off the hook by saying, well, what's the difference if you'd have gone down there

with his finger and spent five minutes, three minutes in there doing that? Is saying to loosen pediment. Right, to what point these are to breach the rules? Is it a breach of the rule when you shovel it out the penalties to strokes whether it was a blatant intent to cheat I don't think so I just don't know what he was thinking if you can crawl in that head and figure it out let me know yeah I it almost happened to me in a tournament a couple weeks ago where my ball came to rest against divot sand like

the divot seems on the right of it, and my instinct, honestly, if the Reed situation never happened, I'd have brushed that sand away. I wouldn't even thought, because I just didn't know that rule was interpreted that way, but once the backlash started and I started reading about it, I was like, whoa, if a tour player should know that rule

and should be able to feel that sand move, it's a tough situation. Hey, the tour player knows better than to improve his situation. And that really didn't do enough to improve the situation to where he could hit a good shot. So it's one of the greatest mysteries. You know, there was a college coach one time that was telling his players, I won't say who he was, but if there was a stick under your ball or a pine needle to look away and snatch it, then you can say you never saw the ball move.

Wow. Well, I mean, maybe he was making his practice swings like that. But I really like Patrick Reed. I don't know what's going on. Sometimes you think there maybe he needs an intervention or something, but I just really like him. I love watching him play golf, but I don't think he's capped in America or anything.

No, I don't think he is. Not anymore, I don't think. Was it awkward on the plane with him? Not at all. He was great, just like nothing happened. And when he walked in, he and his wife were a little bit late and to the first big holding area where everybody was. All the caddies were on the flight, all perfectly normal.

And I just don't know that anybody knew quite how to get into his head to know what he was thinking. The camera's sitting there behind him. He's guys holding it. I just can't, I don't know. It's a great mystery. Well, back to what you were talking about with Tiger on the plane and how different that guy is now. Like, well, compare and contrast him, you know, playing $100 high lows on the plane versus

what you experience when you're a writer-cup teammate with him. Is he kind of seclude himself in those? Yeah, he did. He was secluded. More What part of the play with him the right time? I know I was with him in 02. Seems like we're on a president's cup team. He stayed back and kind of observed. Almost the way I was about NBC. I had to just kind of get my words in, do my job, and see how it all worked, and all functions.

And that's kind of what he was doing. And I'm sure through the years he's assessed, you know, kind of what's been great, what hasn't been great, but he didn't come out there like a team leader. And when he came into the team room and those guys were getting waxed after day one, he came in with his hat on backwards, a big smile on his face. So those guys were all nervous, but he wasn't nervous. He just like, hey, I think he said something like, hey, we still got jet lag. We don't even know the course yet. So it's all right.

Let's hang in there. He really did trust his players. My theme there as the week went on became more, Tiger Trust them, and Ernie says trust me. As a captain, he knew the course like the back of his hand. He's got the course record there. He's one tournament at Royal Melbourne, and Ernie said, if you hit driver in this hole,

you're not playing tomorrow. You know, play it the way I tell you to play it. There's a couple guys that went against him on the first T-shot of the golf tournament, actually, on Sunday, but all in all, you know, the Tiger dynamic isn't going to be an inspirational message as much as it's going to be more of a confident kind of, I don't know, I think one of my best qualities at our Ryder Cup was everybody on our team had confidence and my confidence in them. And if I gave them confidence,

imagine what it is when Tiger shows his confidence in them. And if I gave them confidence, imagine what it is when Tiger shows his confidence in them. And I think that's what happened at this president's cup. The more I think about it, he showed that he had confidence in them and that made all the difference in the world. I really do think that he'll be, he should be locked in for a while if he wants to do it. I like that idea. What, you mentioned to kind of, I guess, was there a falling out between you and Tiger at any point? I know you said you were media when you, when things kind of hit the fan for him there in 2009. And the way I understand the way Tiger operates

is just like people just become, nope, like you're out. I don't talk to you anymore. Did you feel like that was the case or? I didn't know. I never had a conversation with them about it. It was just sort of obvious to me that it was just a little different, you know, more side-eye-ish and stuff, which is cool. I get it. I was fair to Tiger it honestly. And always, you know, when I was tweeting, I was always the

naysayers beware guy on Tiger Moon. I remember that. That was it. You keep calling, you know, don't count them out. Now, see, that's another thing I'm right about. He's as good as anybody in the world right now. And they're going to get what they wished for, which is, they're going to get hammered by them. They better sack up if they want to beat that guy because he's not going to beat himself down the stretch very rarely. He's still a clutch putter.

You know, I wish I was playing better when Tiger first showed up in 97. And I was just past my prime got back from all the Treatments to be in sick and all that crap and I missed him. I just missed him I wish I was like the ferocious bulldog that could have tried to see if I had the heart to take him down I had one chance Last group on Sunday at Jack's tournament and he shot the easiest 65 I've ever seen in my life We were going down 17 and I remember I didn't subject to him all day except nice shot and we walked up 17. We're already hit our second

shots and I trotted up to him and all I can think to say was, hey I feel like oh you're an apology today. It was before. I said I don't know, bro. I said I just some reason I felt like maybe you thought I could give you more today and and I just couldn't do it. And he busted out laughing. And that's how I felt. He was at that point in his career, he was like, maybe A'sing or can beat me. Maybe A'sing or can give me a little trouble. I have anything for him.

He shot the easiest 65 you've ever seen. I remember the shot he hit in the number five. I'll never forget it. My neck still hurts from looking at remember the shot he hit in the number five. I'll never forget, my neck still hurts from looking at that ball. He hit a two or three, and I think it was a two iron to this front pen. I hit a three wood earlier, like a dummy, right before him. I should have laid up, because I'd hit a dozen, nine,

pitching wedge or sandwiches within three feet of the hole that week. And for some reason, I hit hit three wood and I thinned it and it was right at it. Hit the bank, rolled in the water. I made bog. But once it went in the water, he got up there and hit. And I looked at my caddy, I was like,

I'm so glad he's going for this. He's gonna follow me right in and you watch. What? He hit that ball at my neck. I was like, oh, I'm looking up like this, my neck. I never seen a ball leave that high in my life and he never moved a blade of grass. Wack, right in there about five feet,

tapped it in for Eagle, three shots swing, I was two up, one down, and from that point on, there was no, he never missed a shot. And I couldn't give him any trouble. And it was killing me, I couldn't give him any trouble because I just wanted to give him some trouble there at the end and I couldn't just to see how he would Handled it well well you know I would have had I know he would have found out you all right

So I got some of your predictions down that you gave golf calm and one of them is that Tiger's gonna win a major this year You've been you've been you've had some good predictions as of late which ones are gonna be are you willing to set a tiger? Yeah, Rory's gonna win a master. Okay, that's all that went on there too. Well, you know what the guy asked me, he asked me for five out rages prediction, give me outrageous predictions, you know, like I could have done anything. Cameron Smith would win a tournament. That's on there. Is it on there? Cameron Smith will be the best Aussie player in the world.

Is what you're. Oh, crap. Well, he is right now. Well, at least, I meant to say he'd win a tournament. So I think he wrote it wrong. I really feel like Tiger's going to win the US Open at Wingfoot because he's so much more in control right now off the tee and he's the best putter by a wide margin. And Wingfoot's a beast. It's a beast. He's been there enough. He missed the cut there last time, but I just think he's gonna win a US open. That's what I think.

You know, you gave another one there that Patrick Cantley will ascend to number one player in the world. I think he's a guy that people don't talk about quite enough. What makes you think, what do you see in him that is number one player in the world? Just watching him flight it in his demeanor the way he gets it up And in I like everything about him and he's got that personality type But you remember these are outrageous predictions I was thinking and I was like oh, I don't I don't have a problem with that at all I think he would be if I pick nobody's gonna think I know no one's gonna call that no I always pick speed to win the masters, but if I was gonna change that pick I would pick

I think he's I think he's gonna win a green card. Before he's winning the Masters, you know what happened? Why is he gonna win? Because when he went to the open championship and he tried to pretend like it was any other tournament and all that, he learned a valuable lesson. They're not all the same, buddy. Not all these tournaments are the same. Some of them are bigger than others.

This is the biggest event, the greatest chance of your life to play in Northern Ireland on this golf course. He tried to blow it off like it, like it was any other event, and it just was fake, and it irritated me. It just irritated me to not just say, I'm gonna be the most nervous I've ever been. I can't wait to hit that first drive. I hope I can keep it between the stakes.

That is real. Not it going to be like any other tournament. He learned his lesson and then he just gutted out the rest of the year, played great. Got all the money, 15 million, you know, now he can tweet back to Elkington how much more money he has and the last time. You remember that one, huh? Oh yeah, that was awesome. I've never been a huge Rory fan or believer. I always loved him when he was Pudgy Rory. You've never been a huge Rory fan or believer. I always loved him when he was Pudgy Roy. You know, Pudgy Roy never got injured either. I said that before, but fit Roy's heard all the time.

I was really glad to hear fit Roy say, I'm not going to go crazy anymore. You know, if you could work on that little tendon in the knee that blows out that keeps these guys from playing or that whatever. I'd work out on these elbows and I'd work out on that little B. Patelate, whatever it is, but they all want to look pretty and they want to build up and all that. And I get it, they want to be strong, but they get injured and I'm just glad Roy hopefully he can play injury free. But it was always, you know, as he got better in the pressure amped up, he got more in that kind of a denial mode about it, but he faced the music after the open, and I believe it helped him to have

a bad week there. I think he's going to masters. Let's hope so. I'd vote for that. All right, so we talked to Peter Jacobs in about this last week about the Premier Golf League, this new proposed world tour I like getting the insight from guys that were at least a part of the conversation when this was Drummed up in the 1990s. What do you remember about that time for the 90s and where do you stand on the possibilities and the likelihood of this tour?

The the thinking immediately is if you're in it You're in for the rest of your life. How do you fall out of that world golf league? How do you get into that world golf league? It's just another tour. It's a joke. It's not going to happen. The PGA tour and the commissioner are, you know, he's going to say, Jay Monhan's going to say, well, choose.

So over before it starts, it makes for good fodder though. I mean, do you think there's no way that guys would whatever leave for just... Some guys might, but I think it has a 0% chance. Okay, see how that prediction plays out. Okay. I'm with you. I think it would, it's too big of a hurdle to clear to ask guys to give up all their chances. The tour is going to say that, and then you have TV contracts in place and all that stuff

that you've got to sign on. When you first qualify for the tour, you sign that stuff. So yeah, I think it's all a lot to do about nothing. What do you remember about the 90s when... Same problem. Yeah. The commissioner at the time could have been beaming his pride. Finch him.

Finch him. He gave us a choice. And you're just not... You're going to choose the tour. time could have been being in his pride. Finch him. Finch him. He gave us a choice. And you're just not, you're going to choose the tour. Once that choice is obvious, that's the end of the nitty-gritty on that. I think it's just, you know, there's not, players are not picketing. They're not, you know, they're not saying we need this, we need this, here's our demands. There's not really, I mean, not serious, serious complaints were serious issues, enough

to like really actually leave Yeah, it's almost like we've just wasted too much time on this topic already Because it is really that much of a non topic. It sounds awesome now Yeah, I'm wrong then I'll be wolfing down a crow. I'm with you And we didn't spend time on it until recently and then the stories came out and the money being you know very real How much money is on the tour, this new contract, on the coming into the PGA tour. I mean, the PERSAT TPC is going to be like 15 million or something.

Yeah, that's, I'm with you. I don't think it's going to happen, but need to get your insight. Oh, there it is. What about the distance report? Yeah, I know you haven't read it yet. We're recording this on the day. The USGA distance report comes out. But we talked about a little bit. Lunch to sum it up. The US We're recording this on the day of the USGA distance report comes out. We talked about a little bit lunch to sum it up.

The USGA appears to be on the path to find the addressing the fact that the ball goes very far. Do you think that's a good idea? Are you surprised it took this long? What do you think? Well, everybody knows the ball goes really, really far. I don't know. I think the USGA said their data didn't show that necessarily.

And, you know, I mean, I talked to those guys, I said, just quit saying that and go get the data and quit saying that because everybody knows it's going farther. It's, but I think it's a great thing. I love the fact that the balls can hang in the air for 10 or 12 seconds. And I just think it's cool. Now, if you're air mail and bunkers and making stuff obsolete, I get that at a bunker. It's not that big a deal. If you're going to play regular events on tour at a bunker, you know, the 80s and 90s, the 2000s, yeah,

back in Orday, par was 72. Well, the ball's going so far now in the 2020s. It's the parser about 71, sometimes 70 now. You don't have to change the ball's going so far now in the 2020s. It's, the cars are about 71, sometimes 70 now. You don't have to change the ball. What the ball do it does. Stop it. I just, I love it. I just love it that, that guys can hit it like that.

Watch standing on the range and watching it. If you've never been to a driving range on a PGA tour, it will blow your mind. Do you think, pick up your game and put you in 2019 in your prime? Do you think that you would have get an advantage by the new technology against your peers or do you think it would have hurt you against your peers? I don't think it would have mattered one better. You know, one way or the other. Bobby Jones would have been good. And you know, if we all use Hickory Sticks, Rory McAroy would still be beating everybody to the ground and so would Tiger.

If we use lady shafts or aluminum shafts, the best players would still be the best. So I just feel like I'm going to go with the idea that nothing's any different, that when it comes to being a player, you got to just get it in the hole, man. You got to chip and putt. Going back to 2008, Radar Cup. I had a bunch of questions I want to ask you about this, but one of which, you, you captain the guy on that team that is almost a mythological figure in the game.

You know who I'm talking about. Captain E. Kim, right. What was it like captain him? What's, what stories do you have of him for that week? He was the team leader at age 21. He might have just turned 22. And he had the AK bling going with the big belt buckle and all that. And he was just really cool to be around. Had that youthful enthusiasm. And he was so cocky. But he's a street kid.

Somebody told me he's all tatted up, you know, grew up in LA playing pickup hoops with guys. And just a stud athlete. His whole thing when he came in, first of all with this whole pod system concept, it was going to be Mikkelsen and Anthony Kim was Justin Leonard and it turned out they picked Hunter Mayhan. All green light personality types, but AK and Mikkelsen wanted to be together. I wasn't sure it was going to be all that great, but it was once that anybody could have gone with anybody in that pot of four. And of course Mikkelsen wanted him because he knew how many birdies he made.

I was laughing. Who really feel? You can go out of limb and take AK. All Anthony Kim wanted to do that week was play Sergio. A Zinger, can you find Sergio for me? I want to kick his ass. I said, bro, it doesn't work that way. I got to do an envelope. They got to do an envelope.

We turn it in. On Sunday, he draws him in the first match out. And he walked up to me on the first tee. And I said, my whole message for those players was you know you're gonna shit let's go show off this week I show off I walked up to AK on the first he's coming up the hill and I said well buddy you gonna show off for me today he says I'm gonna whoop his ass for you today captain and he did he whoop his ass and when he got done he didn't even know he'd beat him turned around starts running off and I come walking.

They say, you want to match. He comes back to me and he hit me three times on the chest. I told you I was gonna whip that ass. I told you I was gonna whip that ass. He just went street kid and then grabbed that flag and took off and it was like never saw him again. I saw him one other time doing an outing somewhere and he was hurt.

He had something on his wrist and I'd never seen him since. And I don't talk to him. He disappeared on me. And you're right, he's a mythological figure, kind of iconnish almost. Well, it's just, it's amazing just how far off the face of the earth he's fallen from the golf world. Without it, I know the injuries that he had were pretty debilitating from a golf standpoint, but it's just, it's amazing. I feel like nobody talks toilitating from a golf standpoint, but it's amazing. Nobody talks to him, nobody has any insight, and it's just this huge, everybody, not a

month goes by where somebody doesn't ask. I was like, hey, did you track down Anthony Kim yet? Where's he at? The only other player I've ever seen do that was Jody Mud. Guys my age, I'm 16 now, people my age remember Jody Mud, he won the players and the tour championship in the same year and a couple years later He just retired and was gone Never to be heard from again. He shows up now at the players past champions dinner

It's really weird to see Jody mud like that, but what a player he was and AK disappeared He got hurt. There's you know rumors are he's collecting on this massive disability insurance, but There's so much money to be had out here on the tour. I mean, you got guys that have, what could it possibly be, disability, 20 million? Well, even if it's 20 million, I mean, you got guys that have won two times on the PGA tour, that 45 million career earnings. Plus sponsors. Because you lose all the sponsors. I don't I have to be more than that. Yeah, there's just that I will be forever curious on that topic, I think. But one thing I wanted to ask about OA, this is I've never seen this at any other Ryder Cup since then. The rally you

guys had before the event. How did that come about? Was that your idea? They were having the pep rally and we just decided to show up. I mean, we wanted to be there the whole time. And we made lapel pins up, had 10,000 lapel pins. We were pitching to the crowd. You know, we invited everybody to the pep rally. We had always intended to go to the pep rally. And then something happened the night of the pep rally. It just ran so late.

It's like, oh, I said, we're out. We teeing off the next morning, we're not going. And all the players came up and said, bulls, shit, we're going. And that's how we're out. We teeing off the next morning, we're not going. And all the players came up and said, oh, shit, we're going. And that's how that worked out. And so all the players wanted to go to the Peppery out. That made me feel good. And it was cool.

We were sneaking through these stores that were connected on the street there in downtown Louisville and went through a library and popped out on that stage that cheerleaders were there from Louisville and University Kentucky, Patino spoke. When we bust on that stage they were going crazy, throwing t-shirts in the crowd. I remember getting blasted for telling the crowd that they were our 13th man, which was really almost, you know, I own the phrase 13th man now with Alex

Masele and Dave Shedlowski, Europe and the United States. We're gonna try to do something with 13th man. Hopefully it'll happen. But I remember telling the crowd that you could cheer when they miss. You can cheer when they miss. European fans understand that, our fans don't. And I got asked about that a little bit.

I heard it was a European media poll. Did you really suggest it? They cheer when we miss Yeah, I did as a matter of fact Because you do it to us they do it. They love to act like they don't and it's totally fine Like I don't think anybody has a problem. It wasn't malicious. It was just about educating and Westwood got really ticked off about that Yeah, we had some good times at that rider cup. JB Holmes was an interesting cat at that rider cup too. How so? Well, we picked him. He knew the hall like the back of his hand. He got there really too early. Thursday, Friday,

Saturday, Sunday, the player showed up on Monday, Sunday night. I'd gotten there early. Saturday, I guess I got there. And I was eating with JB on Sunday in our room. And he just, he gave me the, oops, somebody pisses me off this week's end. He didn't say much. I didn't know what to say to him really. And how come JB, someone pisses me off, I'll kick their ass. I was like, oh man, you're like me, JB. I filed that back into my head there.

And then on day one, JB and Boo went out in the afternoon the first day and they were getting waxed. And Olin Brown was following that redneck pot around. We lovingly called them the redneck group, Kenny Perry and Jim Fjord were in there as well. And he said that JB was blowing it way to the right and they were two down and blah, blah, blah. So I went up to JB.

Oh, I was in the clubhouse. Dan Hicks was showing Lee Westwood who was ticked off at me already. And he was pissed at Booc as Booc was doing, you know, raising his arms up to get the crowd to go crazy. And I had seen that and Hicks had made comment that Westwood was shooting him dirty looks. So we got down there. JB's on nine in the right hand rough.

And I caught him walking up the hill there and I said, slow down a minute. And said, Olam Brown says, you're missing these shots to the right. I just called your coach Matt Kellen. He says, when you're missing it to the right, you're coming down too much from the inside. I said, has he ever told you that before?

And he goes, yeah, he's told me that before. I said, does that make sense to you right now? He goes, yeah, yeah, it makes sense. I said, good, we'll go get him. And I took about three steps and I turned around. I said, oh, hey, one more thing. I said, I don't know to you right now? Yeah, it makes sense. I said, good, we'll go get him. And I took about three steps and I turned around. I said, oh, hey, one more thing. I said, I don't know if you realize this or not, but Westwood shooting you dirty looks.

And boo, daddy's like, or no, JB's like, oh, that's, you know, pissed him off. And anyway. That was it, he got what he asked for. He wanted us a bit of piss him off. He did. And he did a foot on the next hole. He had driver seven hour and over to green on six hundred and a par five.

They came back and tied the match. I should have won the match. But it just such an opportunity to message these guys in those matches. I just love it. What was the, I mean, the atmosphere at home rider cups is usually well documented, but kind of just glossed out. I mean, everyone just love to say how rowdy the crowd was. But it felt like Louisville was different than other US Ryder cups as far as the presence.

Can you talk about the presence on the ground? Yeah, I really felt like that the golf course was set and built for it. They removed two or three thousand trees to make room for spectators and Jack did a great job of creating kind of a stadium look to that golf course. There was miles of corporate tents and you know, again the message really even to the crowd was to match our outfits on Sunday and you know, I think the players made eye contact with those folks and they really loved it and they embraced it and you know gas, we were right in the middle of election, gas prices were

sniffing 450 a gallon. I mean, it was a lot going on emotionally. It's a great escape, that sporting event for a lot of patriots. I didn't think about that. I guess I was like two weeks after. Yeah. We were brothers collapse. Yeah, that was, that was the next, that's interesting. All right, last two. What are some mistakes you see captains of team events make? What are common captency mistakes in your mind? Two huge mistakes. I think trying to motivate them, number one, is the biggest mistake. And then Saturday nights, somehow this tradition got started where we all sit around the table and everybody goes around individually and talks about the

week and what it's meant to them. If you're behind, I can understand that. I remember Ken Green back in the 89 maybe way back then, such a controversial guy back then, and Lanny and Raymond and Watson and all these great players, kite, Floyd, I said Raymond. Anyway, yeah, he just stood up and he said, you know, when I got here, I really, I didn't like any of you guys. Matter of fact, I hated most of you.

But now my feelings have changed. I really like y'all. And you just sat down. It was like, you almost wanted to cry. You know, you almost wanted to cry. We've had great moments. I remember one time Chip Beck stood up in that team room and we've had great moments. But I think if you're ahead, you can't do this. Cooom by on Saturday night.

Davis and M. did it in 2012. They lost their edge. Europe's calling the ghost to savvy over there and End up coming back and winning. But anyway, Chip Beck stood up one time. He and John Cook were not playing that great and they went last match out and I think they drew Monty and Wusy impossible to beat them and they've got them. They beat him and Chip Beck. We were just all so excited for Chip or and Cook to win that match and chip back stood up and I remember it. I'll never forget this. He said, boys, I want you to know that the will to win can overcome a mechanical breakdown like I was having out there today and we just busted out laughing because he was struggling, bro, but they got it done. The will to win can overcome a mechanical

breakdown like I was having out there today. Wow. Put that on a t-shirt. Brilliant. but they got it done. The will to win can overcome a mechanical breakdown like I was having out there today. Wow. Put that on a t-shirt. Brilliant. Well, our Saturday night we were leading, and I had a couple of the wives say, hey, we haven't done our thing yet.

You know, we give the gifts and all that. I said, yeah, you know what, we're not going to do that this year. And we did a Sunday night after we won. I told Davis, don't do that if you're ahead, Davis, but they did it. Well, I don't know what happened Saturday, night, and twenty-sixteen when they won, but I lobbied hard for Davis to get another chance. Dad, member of the PGA of America, Davis

went in a PGA championship. They wanted to go a different direction than Davis, and after twenty-twelf, after twenty-fourteen, the Watson pick. That's when the controversy hit the fan. I really argued and lobbied hard for Davis to get another chance. What was the celebration like after the 91 Ryder Cup? The 91 Ryder Cup. I don't know why do you ask about that. I don't know. We talked a lot of 91 last time,

but I don't I don't think I ever got to that question. You know, the key was so weird. You know, there wasn't even a clubhouse for us it was trailers two temporary trailers so mile walk from nine green to ten T they had take a bus or a car or shuttle something to get us there I think we all left I think it was the worst celebration ever. Honestly I think we just like it was on the beach and oh that was right after the match yeah that was right after the matches. Yeah, that was right after the matches.

So those guys went down to the beach. Kyle could like wreck the last four or five holes and lost his match. So he was going bananas, psychosumware. And those, I felt, I love Bernard Langard at the time. So when he missed, I was more gutted for him and how he would have to deal. He won the next determined, by the way, no big deal.

Of course he did. So I didn't go down to the beach to celebrate because I don't want to rub his nose in it. If you'll notice the 18 whole celebration, you won't see me because I backed out because I love Bernard so much, I backed out of there. I didn't want to be a part of it. Every thought I was such a prick at Ryder Cup's,

but I just was patriotic and did what I had to do, but I had a heart, I had a heart for Bernard and what he was going to feel. I think the greatest celebration was 08, our Ryder Cup. Your opinions come up, they're all wasted. Poddrick was hammered, has this paisley white, iron skin, his shirt on button and gold chains and all that leaned into he was hilarious. It's just great to see those guys like that. Anthony Kim setting up shots on the pool table and we're all toasting to the competition and doing the stuff you do. Boo Weekly's, you know, telling all the both teams he's sharing the story about getting into ring with

the orangutang and it was just awesome. Westwood was drunk and he was over there signing our posters and bootcom over. Hey, hey, these are our, don't be signing our stuff. And you know, Westwood disappear from any slither back over there We had a wall of stuff two walls really of stuff to sign hats posters flags you name it and it takes all week to get through Westwood is over there sabotage, you know Siding our stuff boot atty finally boo gave the whistle stood on a chair Everybody quiet and it scary for a sec. He stood up there and he said hey stuff, the boot addy. Finally Boo gave the whistle, stood on a chair, shh, everybody quiet. And it was scary for a sec. He stood up there and he said, hey, anybody wants to sign

anything in this room? He pulled up his big old bell and he stuck and I just, come sign this right here. And it just was perfect, right? We had the, it was just a great, great celebration. I can tell how excited you always get to talk about it. Yeah, thanks for having me. I started with that. Oh, thanks for asking. I don't know.

Yeah. It's really a treat. So, all right, well Paul, thanks again for coming on the podcast and all the tremendous stories and all the insight and best of luck with the rest of the year. Keep up the good work, guys. All right club today. Yeah. That is better than most.

How about in? That is better than most. Better than most. Better than most. Expect anything different. I Expect anything different