No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 284: Erik van Rooyen

Episode Date: February 26, 2020

Fresh off a T3 finish in Mexico, Erik an Rooyen joins to chat about playing at altitude, what makes the Mexico event so fun, the Sunshine Tour, the Challenge Tour, golf in South Africa, and a lot more. He also discusses trying to get a PGA Tour card, when he realized he was one of the top players in the world, how he got there, and a lot more.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm gonna write club, beat a right club today. Yes! That is better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most. Expect anything different. Better than most. Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Expect anything different!

I'm not exaggerating when I say, I want you to tell me absolutely everything you can about golf club, Ditchapulta Pack, because I love watching this golf course. I promise there's not one detail I want you to skip by about playing it. You just come in off a T3 finish. I just want you to kind of walk us through some of the considerations that go into playing that course, because they talk about the altitude of course on the broadcast Right. It's not a direct translation of like, oh now my eight iron goes this far because of all the different heights and stuff So what kind of adjustments do you make before this tournament? It's interesting because usually

So I grew up, I played a lot of golf in China's books in Africa and the difference is about 10 percent So when I play in Johannesburg, I play straight meters, and it works out great. Is that your stock yardage? Like, well, I went out to the other. Well, I'm joking. And when I play here, I play yards. So, same, my nine iron goes 150 meters in Johannesburg.

It goes 155 yards here. Interesting. So, it's pretty close, okay. But then we get to Chipotle to pack, and it's like, okay, balls going even further than John is book. So on the Tuesday we hit every club in the bag just right at Downs straight. How far is it going and trackman? Trackman, exactly. And that's that he had all the numbers in his yarders book and I was like, okay, how far does that nine on go again or the eight on? Well, about 187 here. So, you know.

But then if you are, if you're hitting a 95% nine iron, is it a direct, does that really change how much it's going to fly? Compared to a record of course, like what are those kind of adjustments? Yeah, I try to not ever think too much, you know, because in the favor of it happened on, even on, you know, it's back on on Sunday, I was, I think it was in 16, I was in between, it was either a full wedge, but the breeze is a little into us, I think it was 151 to the pin, and 16's got a massive slope behind it, so you can use a slope if you want, and so we decided on taking a little 9-9, and I was like, okay, but I've got to take a little bit off of this, so how

am I doing that again? So, now they're okay, but yeah, I think think if you can ever think it's going to get quite complicated. Well, yeah, but it's interesting. I don't feel like we see a golf course on tour where we see more guys get more mystified on the distance that balls go. I mean, we're watching the, you're shot into seven on Sunday. I think it was Sunday, right? It was excellent.

We watch guys go long on that all day. We saw people hitting the tree and everything like that. But it just seems like it's a golf course that makes you guys, at least a, maybe not, you finished type of third, maybe not, you may be the guy to ask about this, but makes people uncomfortable a little bit. It does.

It does. Especially if you're not used to it. And it's funny, I think when you get to sort of the mid-eyes, the 7, 6, 8, 9, it almost affects a little bit more because that ball gets up a little bit. And we spoke about when you do want to hit the high one, just account for that little bit extra yardage because it's going to go that extra bit further.

So you just had to get comfortable with it. We see every, almost every year, this tournament guys that hit it really far succeed. And if you adjust for altitude, the course is equivalent of like 6400 yards or 60. It doesn't play that long. It doesn't play that long. But why would long drivers succeed there? I don't know.

It's a good question. I just, I think it's a golf course. Again, it's similar to courses in Johannesburg that I grew up on. So I was, you know, very even lost you year, my first time I played it was quite comfortable. I think it's a golf course. It looks really tight, but take whole four, for example, it's huge dog leg left. If you're going to hit driver, you've got to miss it left, because it's fairly simple punch out to the green.

And every hole has kind of got a side like that. You know, eight, for example, you have to miss it right, doglet right up the hill. If you go left to screw it, you've got to punch out. So if you know which side to miss it, head driver, wherever you want to, you're going to have a chance to at least punch out to the green or get it around the green somewhere so you can up and down for four part.

But, you know, if you're going to play conservatively and you then miss it here in trouble. So, well, I think part of the reason why we love watching so much is it feels a lot like the experiment of if the best players in the world are going to play what of course that kind of looks like our local music. Of course, it's like the overgrown and just kind of weird bunkers around the greens. But guys seem to love playing it. And obviously you've had success there now. What is it about that makes it so fun to play? Oh, I think it's got a mix of everything.

You've got the short holes. You've got one, which is really exciting. You know, guys are hitting two irons on the green or three words and yet, out of bounds, is right there to the left. If you miss it, so it's exciting. You've got long holes like eight, really good par three, seven. It's going to be one of the best par three We play all year. I mean, I have to you hit that great show You're gonna say that if you hit the tree you wouldn't have been saying what I hit the transact So the tree freaking covers like half of the green. So It's a tricky one. So it's it's got a lot of everything it gives you know Sunday

There's a lot of pins where you can use some slopes and get it close to the hole. So a lot of exciting stuff. What's it, I mean, so again, we're talking about a course that you're playing. It plays very differently than the rest of the courses. You've been in pressure situations before. But now you're playing a golf course

that has this weird altitude factor in a high pressure situation Sunday. Did that feel any different than in the other high pressure situations you've been in on Sundays? No, pretty similar. If I think back in Sweden where I won last year, I was probably more nervous on Sunday in Europe

than I was this last week. So on Saturday, I was actually, the adrenaline was all over the place. And then Sunday was quite calm. Funny enough I shot four under Saturday and I think I shot one under on Sunday. So I think I did okay. Yeah. Do you do anything differently at altitude? Do you set out when you start out the week? Are you hydrating better? I mean I know I believe you've got hit with food poisoning. Just that's the ego. That's good. Did he bring that on? Or what do you do with food wise?

Like how do you make sure you don't get hit with what hits a lot of people in Mexico? I don't know. We went to a nice restaurant in the hotel, Tipin Yaki, good Japanese food. He says it was the shrimp that he ate. We always ate the shrimp. I think he went back and had something different maybe afterwards. But yeah, he was out Thursday. He went back to the hotel and slept the whole day. So actually, I had my trainer on the bag and

he did okay. He clubbed me, give me a bad club. I think it was number eight or sixteen of all of the holes. But he gave you a bad club. Yeah. I was like, is it three of it? Is it a driver? And he's like, no, I hit the driver. And I hit it left where I wasn't supposed to go and gave him a stink eye, but we did okay in the end, so it's all good. Well, this is perfect timing, because we teased you before we go, you're gonna do our Callaway ad for you.

And we're gonna make you ad lib it. But the one thing I was suggested to ask you about was the Maverick Threewood. You are using the Maverick Threewood. Yeah. What's your feedback then on like on that? I loved it the minute I got it behind the ball, I think it sits really good.

It's kind of like a classic three-word for me. I'm kind of an old school guy. Like, I don't have any person in clubs, but I'd love to have some one day. I love a good blade iron. So that looks like just a classic looking three-word. I like it. One of our guys is claiming that the jaw's wedges

or it should be or illegal. They should be illegal because the grooves are so good on them. And they're really good. They literally want me to ask you about whether what you think of the grooves on the jaws wedges. Yeah, I spoke to you. Do you think you should have been disqualified for using the legal way?

I don't think so, but I spoke to Roger Cleveland about it and he's not working for Calaway at the Genesis. Obviously he got so much knowledge and they've actually got little miniature grooves in between the actual grooves. I didn't know that part. You do get a lot of spin on them. It was a great context. It was a great context. That was the frightening part for me was sometimes I would get crazy good spin on them.

That concludes the ad portion of this. Are you much of a tinkerer with equipment? I mean, how often will you, like, are you considered, where do you fall in the spectrum, I guess, when it comes to technology? I probably prefer not to change. Obviously, I think like any golf pivot, we all love getting new equipment, love seeing the latest stuff.

But if something works for me, I'm gonna keep it in the bag. I don't really like to change unless I see, you know, significant improvement. Yeah. Yeah. What has been the feedback on the joggers? Somehow I knew this was coming.

Oh, of course. I can't believe I made it this far. It's really all over the ballpark, to be honest. People, it's so polarizing. I don't know what people get so worked up about it. I'm very okay on that, but it's so polarizing. I don't know what people get so worked up about it. I'm very okay. I'm sure it doesn't bother me. People either love it or absolutely hate it.

I've gone some measures for the last few days. I mean, Instagram. So one lady sitting in the messages that says, you surely you've got love money now and to go buy some proper tie for the cough course. And then I get guys that say, I absolutely love it. Where can I get it? So it's absolutely love it where can I get it.

So it's, there's no middle ground. Are they extra comfortable? Like what is they really comfortable about the peel of these? They are really comfy. And then at the same time, you know, I think they're quite classy. I think they look good.

Yes, it's different and people probably don't like that too much. But what engulfed? No way. People love changing golf. The sport is so good at keeping it with the tires. Right, yeah. So, I think, I don't know.

I don't mind the fact that it's a little about like standing out just a little bit, but then again, I'm not like a huge fan of those loud mouthed pants that are all these different kind of colors. So... Were those the two options you were... No, they were not. But I think it's a little different

yet at the same time still neat and clean. So I like it. Well, I honestly do think it's an underrated part of the highest levels of pro golf that you have to wear pants. And it's like when it's 85 and hot, it is not comfortable. It is truly not comfortable to play golf in that.

And like, if you imagine how far pants have come too, I know that sounds stupid to say, but like even looking at some of the weird, with Brad Faxon earlier, looking at some of the old cotton shirts and cotton pants. You're right. I don't know. Yeah, the idea of wearing pants in 85 degree heat,

I know that there's a lot that comes with, you know, that's a minor thing to deal with. That's right. But it is, like when you're playing poorly and you're in pants and you're hot, that has to be very hard. Make a real difference. Yeah, I know. On the European tour they may have a rule now if it gets above a certain temperature, they allow you to wear shorts.

But yeah, I mean just make it across the board. I mean, why not? Yeah, I'm not just quite sure. I kind of want to go back to something you said earlier. I'm not feeling super nervous on Sunday. A couple things. One, I'm curious how to, how it differed from Scandinavia, like you're talking about. And then three, like there's a lot on the line for you personally as far as like where you're gonna be playing, how much you can lock up all that kind of stuff. It's a lot of questions.

You try not to think about all those things. I just stand here over a little for-foot, like the rider that you've got. So like going into the week or going into like a Sunday, like what are those things that are on your mind? I mean, is it like a special time for a membership and that kind of stuff or how? Yeah, it's in the back of your mind.

I'm not gonna try and hide the fact that I'm trying to get my PJ to a card. But, I mean, I've been doing this for quite a while now and if that's going to be the forefront of your mind going down Sunday, you're definitely not going to be ready to go when a major tournament. So, yeah, you've got to kind of put it in the freezer, you know, until you're done. So it's not easy.

Obviously, winning the golf tournament was the forefront of my mind throughout the whole day, but you've got to just go do your job as well as you can. So walk us through kind of that where you're talking about trying to get your PGA tour card, right? So let's catch people up that people that are not as familiar with your career to this point. And I want to go in on the Sunshine Tour. I want to talk about the challenge tour. I want to talk about some of the fun stories I'm sure you have from that. But give us kind of a sort of state of aim. Give us kind of some of the basis of your career to date up until your rise here in the last couple of years. A little background, sure. Yeah, obviously, you know,

I'm waiting two minutes outside for four years. I wouldn't say that's obvious because you gave her a self-assure. Sure, I told her tell from the accident. Loved it. Absolutely loved it. Absolutely positive. How did you end up in this? Got recruited by them in two other schools. Decided quite late in high school that I wanted to come to the US, but obviously it's a really good option if you want to get a degree and then

also play golf, which my dad was like, look, get something behind your name and I was like, okay, well, this is the best place to do it. So what was your degree? Mark I think. So it was pretty simple to be honest, but still have it. So yeah, long story short, ended up going to Minnesota. Had you like visited Minnesota?

I went. I went May of Oh, nine. Had you visited Minnesota? I went May of 09. Had you already committed? No. I went to visit at Kennesaw State, Liberty and Minnesota. Yeah. And I'm just for the coldest place of all of them. Well, I was going to say, I was wondering if they were going to try to trick you in designing before you actually got there. Right. And so I called it actually. Yeah. They told me it was much shorter than what it actually is.

So I can't remember the exact words of the coach at the time, but he made it sound like it's okay, it's gonna be about two months of snow and then it'll be okay. It's more like off the... During the summer there might be the best place on earth. I know, it's beautiful. It's beautiful. It's great. So Minnesota for four years, absolutely loved it. Then went back, played San Tzua to in Pro. Three years out there, finally won

my first tournament, the I have Africa PGA, and decided, oh, let's try and make the move, try and go to Europe. Missed my card at Q school, but I think I finished 30th and the next 25 guys are so get their financial status. I knew that I wasn't going to have enough money to sort of back myself the whole year so I had to go out and play well and luckily I did that. So what's it like? Is it more nerve-wracking to play when you don't have the money to support yourself or more nerve-wracking to play for 1.7 million or whatever that is. When you don't have it. Yeah.

Yeah. It's two different situations and positions to be in. You want both quite badly. But when you know, OK, I've got sort of five more events left, and then I've got to go back home. It's kind of like to fire underneath you. Was that the backup option going back home? It wasn't like, I'm going to go back home. It's kind of like to fire underneath you. Was that the backup option going back home? It wasn't like, I'm going to round up some funding

to kind of get around the challenge tour. Yeah. No, I'm going home. Is that what it came down to, five events? No. I don't know. I don't know. There are a lot of stories like that.

There are. There are three and some marketing books. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. Exactly. Get back to the basics. But the marketing job search might have been

motivated you the best. Google. Exactly. So yeah, I ended up playing OK. And my wife actually got on the bag, which helped. Catties are quite expensive when you're playing in China. So you can also obviously grab a little push card and do your own thing.

But she got on the bag and ended up winning in China into that year. So how's the rate structure work for your wife when she's on the bag? She's sitting over here. She can fill in if you're lying. She has eyes. She's the highest paid caddy that year. I'll stay 100% of her name. Exactly.

So you mentioned kind of potentially going potentially going back to the sunshine tour But take me before you went to Europe. What's the sunshine tour like and I don't I don't think we've ever Dough of into the sunshine tour in this podcast. I mean, I know it's in South Africa But I what's the competition level like where is like where is what how would you describe it? It's really strong Competition-wise Everybody wants to pretty much play somewhere else. So they're all really working hard doing the right stuff.

I encouraged a lot of my old teammates to come back, stay with me. Alex, on my bag at the moment, he came out for you, played Sancho and Tua. Is the money as good as it is here? Or places like the way, but you're not sure? No, it's not. But it's not that kind of tour.

It's just, tour, you used kind of as a stepping stone to then move on. What was great at the time is we had something like five or six cross-section events with Europe, and that was really intriguing to me because you get to play against some of the better players and gain that experience and that's what I did. What, so you've talked about, you made no secret that you want a PGA to work hard. You are in the process of basically trying

to get special temporary membership. Are you taking up sponsors' exemptions to do this? How close are you? I know they touched that if you needed a solo second or better in Mexico to get it right then, but they almost made it sound like that was your chance to get it. Yeah, really.

Yeah, I mean, obviously, I kind of knew, if I did the math, but I didn't know where exactly I had to finish. But you have several stars. So have you been applying for sponsors exemptions here in the States? Yeah. So you're in Honda this week based on the sponsors invite. I mean, Honda this week based off of sponsors invite. Sponsors invite.

Yeah, so I got the invite a couple weeks ago. So I knew I was going to play. And then I forgot a few coming up based off of top 50 ranking. So. Well, do you have to still use your sponsors invite? Because you got top 10 last week. Does that not get you into Honda? I'm not quite sure.

Mitchell. Mitchell doesn't. Is shaking his head? It's already burned then, if you. All the WGCs don't get you in. Gotcha. That's interesting. The heart.

OK. Should have played's interesting. The heart, okay. Should've played Puerto Rico. Yeah. Yeah. The game within the game, right? So then you're not doing that. What are we doing? Michelle, that's on you, man.

I eat good a one Puerto Rico and not made $600,000. So I don't know, I think he did okay. So you have the Puerto Rico curse, though. That's true. Have you heard about the Puerto Rico curse? It's gotta be something to do with Fino or something. It is. It's one of them, but no one has ever won the Puerto Rico curse though. That's true. Have you heard about the Puerto Rico curse? It's got to be something to do with Fino or something. It is. It's one of them, but no one has ever won the Puerto Rico Open

and ever won another tournament after that. You're kidding. Except for Michael Bradley who won the Puerto Rico Open again. No. No. So everyone in it could have been a huge mistake. Yeah. That's so the job.

Well, we'll be praying for a victor. That's for sure. So now you get your top 50 in the world. This first time you've been top 50 in the world, is that right? Oh, it was before. I was in the last year. In the last two.

That's got the Augustine ride from that. So then drop just back out a few weeks ago. And you're back in the day. And now you're in the players. And to play here. So you got to. So you're pumped about, yeah. So you don't sound like you're

doing a lot of math to figure out what how many points you need to get it to get the Kind of where I'm at Again, it comes down to just play golf and just play golf man. It was started this year I was really wrapped around world ranking and what I have to do to move up and What did I do to get there in the first place? I was just play golf and do my thing and Yeah, the rankings and stuff will take care of itself.

So on that note, I've asked this question a lot on this podcast, and I either don't ask it well, or I don't get a lot of good answers to it. Because it's almost asking for you to brag on yourself a little bit, which is hard for people to do. But at a certain point, you had to accept the fact that you are one of the top 50 best players in the world. And I'm sure when you're playing the Sunshine Tour, that's very hard to accept the fact that you are one of the top 50 best players in the world. And that's, I'm sure when you're playing the Sunshine Tour, that's very hard to accept.

And maybe you consider yourself at a very different level now than you were then. But when did you, like, when was the revealing moment for you of like, oh, no, no, I am, I am that good. I don't know. It's a good question. Probably end of the year. End of last year. Yeah, end of 2019.

Because you finished tied for eighth at PGA Championship last year. Yeah, end of 2019. Because you finished tied for 8th at PGA Championship last year. It still wasn't then. Well, I don't know, I think it's obviously a mission to brag on your stuff. So, yes, I know I'm pretty good. You want to go play right now? I'm going to beat the shit out of you. So, I'm not going to run away from the fact that I know I'm like, I'll beat the shit out of you. So I'm not going to run away from the fact that I know I'm decent, but at the same time, it's, you know, I've, we've got to look back to my career thus far. There's these, there's been these little boxes

that I've wanted to tick and things that I've wanted to achieve. Getting my first win on the sunshine tour. And I did that and I felt great for, you know, X amount of time. And then it was like, well, what's the next thing? And so it's as if there's always this next goal that I want to achieve, this next thing I want to push and try and reach.

And I'm not shooting myself down in the process, but that hunger is always there. So do I believe myself? And do I know that I'm really good? Yeah. But at the same time that I'm really good? Yeah, but at the same time, I'm not waking up tomorrow and thinking, I'm not going to go practice today because I got this. Right.

And then there's my ask it is that it's more of a question of telling yourself that. And I don't mean telling the world that. It's like when did you tell your feel comfortable with yourself being like, hey, I am this good of a player every day. That's a good answer. Every day. Every day. Yeah. That's a good answer. Every day. That's a very good answer. And I think that's also, if you look at the base in the world, if they don't think that, then they wouldn't be where they are.

So yeah, every day. All right, we're going to take a quick break here. Let you guys know, as I'm sure you're aware, if you've been listening to the podcast the last couple of weeks, and following us on our YouTube channel, that episode five of TaurusSauce presented by our partner, Original Penguin, is live on our YouTube channel. Tron has gone all in, his entire stack of money

for the season against DJ Pi at Wilmington Municipal Course. Also, we have some news on the Original Penguin front. The guys over there have been thrilled with the partnership so far and on the feedback they've gotten from all of you guys that they're also going to give all NLU fans a 30% discount on their first order. So all you got to do, go to originalpanguine.com slash NLU30. They're going to send you an email gift code to use on originalpanguine.com a one time,

30% use. I'm about to place a very large order with these guys with some of the hoodies that they have. You'll see us wearing the stuff all throughout the season, both the wild stuff and the conservative stuff. So always remember to be original go to originalpanguine.com slash NLU 30 for 30% off your order and we've got like five more episodes of all the sick outfits that gave us for this past season. Thanks again to them for their incredible partnership. Let's get back to our interview with Eric Van Royen and make sure to swing by our YouTube channel and see the latest episode of Taurus Sos.

I want to unpack that a little bit, what you just said, because as I'm starting to learn more about mental side of golf, I feel like a lot of amateurs hold themselves back based on, like if you are uncomfortably, like playing uncomfortably well, if you're a two handicap and you're four under par, inherently in your mind, you are, I've already fallen back.

You know that you are out over your skis and that you're playing above your talent level. Very personal experience, by the way. You just realize I'm way out of my comfort zone. that you're playing above your talent level. Very personal experience. Mother. You just realize I'm way out of my comfort zone. But how, I guess, what is your journey through professional golf been like from a mental side in terms of kind of balancing that comfort level of where you should be in a tournament?

Because I hear a lot of guys say, like, hey, if I'm thinking about the cut line going into the week, I'm hovering around the cut line come Friday. If I'm thinking about the top 10, I'm near the top 10, but if I'm thinking about the cut line going into the week, I'm hovering around the cut line come Friday. If I'm thinking about the top 10, I'm near the top 10, but if I'm thinking about winning, I'm probably winning. You know what I mean? If your game's going to adjust to where you're at mentally, so I'm just curious to hear

got pick guys' brains on how they approach the mental side of the game. Yeah, I started working with sports likeologists in South Africa. What's it? End of 2015? I think it was. I played the Australian PGA. I shot like, I don't know, like 14, 15 over and finished 30th or something, I think, level part one of the event. And I made like a 13 on the one horn, I was just broken and yeah, I just, you made a 13th pause there for a second. Can you tell us about the third two? There's water, you know,

powerful water, right? But you could also carry it if you hit it just a little left of it. There was bunkers left, out of bounds left of that. I must have hit in the water a bunch of times and then finally got on the ferry. Mr. Green shipped it three putted, whatever. And added up to a really high number.

So I went back home and I was like, okay, I'm not where I need to be in my mind. I'm uncomfortable and started addressing those things and saying so, but you made a really good point, guys that think, okay, I just really want to make the cut this week, but you're probably going to be right there on Friday afternoon, try to make the cut this week. But you're probably going to be right there on Friday afternoon trying to make the cuts.

So that's a really good point, guys, that are the best in the world. They don't think that way. Was there a point when you got either to the European tour or some of the PGA tour events you've played where you looked around at players, maybe differently than you do now, right? Having played in a few of these events and competed with them and beaten a lot of these players, do you look around the range and think any differently

than you did when you first got to that? Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. You get there and it's all new. And here's Tiger Woods, the guy that I've been watching on TV my whole life. Guy, who I admired, all these achievements, here he is. And I've got to go competing against him. So your outlook has to change.

I'm not here to look at her and she's pretty swing. I'm here to try and kick his ass. And it goes for all those guys. But that said, that also doesn't happen overnight. It doesn't happen immediately. So I've now played in a few of these events and you get used to it and you get comfortable. And before you know it, Adam Scott comes up to you and he says, dude, go in it tomorrow. I'm rooting for you.

And that's a pretty cool moment. Yeah, at the same time, I'm competing again Sam and next week I'm going to have to go do the same thing and trying to beat him as well So which event was that sorry? That was Sunday. That was Sunday. Oh, there was Saturday night. He's rooting for you I mean, he was then Maybe because he's in the FedEx cup stand You maybe should take it that personally. Right.

Well, what brought you, how long have you been in Jupiter now? I mean, sends Olga Saflostan. So you, this is, where were you before that? Where are you moving from? In South Africa, we've still got an apartment in Channisburg and we're kind of traveling back and forth to Europe from there. So I just wanted a home. Like, so yeah.

The reason I'm asking is you don't have torsed that as yet. You know, this is what you're gunning for. But you said that I'm setting up shop in Jupiter. That's a good place. What makes, I guess, what's the appeal for you to come to here? So many tors, obviously, live here, but what's the appeal for you? With my wife being American, it was time for us to buy a house somewhere and move. We were talking about starting a family and we were going to move back to Americans. We were like, okay, what do you want to be?

We were looking at Phoenix, Alex lives out in Scottsdale, he's got a house there and we were thinking there, well, it's a little far traveling to Europe from Phoenix all the time, so I could tell, well, it's East Coast somewhere and this is just ideal. It's a little golfing heaven down here. Where do you play down here? There's Club, okay.

You get some good games with the guys out there. What's it, yeah, it's on me to do that. I haven't been here for such a long time. I got back from South Africa. When was it off to Saudi and before that I was here, like October lost. So I haven't been here for too long, even though we've had the house for a bit. What can you tell us about Saudi, the event in Saudi Arabia? I mean, we haven't really talked to anyone on the podcast that has played the event, what it's like once you arrive, till the moment you leave, but what can you tell us about that event?

It's different, certainly. I'm sure it's the way people felt when they first went to Dubai, there was nothing out there. Just this golf course in the middle of nowhere, and it's the same way in Saudi. Dubai, I don't know if you guys have been there. It's a sweet city. Really cool golf courses. And I don't know. Saudi sounds like they want to really develop it and turn it into something similar. So obviously the cultures are completely different. There's a difference of opinions about that. But from pure golfing perspective, I'm intrigued to see where it's going to go in the next

sort of 10 to 20 years. Do you get a sense from talking to any of the other players? It's kind of what we've talked about on the podcast. It's more of what we kind of see. And an issue with is a lot of the top American players that don't really play the European tour, taking money from Saudi Arabia to go play that event. I view that very differently than players in the European tour cycle. You've traveled everywhere.

A lot of different places. Is there any, can you talk about what your thought process and planning process is for how you would go to a venue? Are there any considerations around some of the controversy around Saturday that you do think about? Absolutely. It's in the back of my mind. I've got my view and things and other people have their opinions, but it's such a tough

one because at the end of the day I'm an entertainer, right? If people didn't enjoy watching golf, I wouldn't have a job. So, God, I like Phil, he's an entertainer and sorry to say, but he's also back in every his career. So, he's trying to get as much out of this as he possibly can. So, it doesn't mean he agrees with some of the political things that happen in Saudi probably, probably doesn't would be my guess. But he's still selling his product and he's doing really well. So good for him. That's all we're going to try to get away with here with Mitchell Starran. Now we got

a thumbs up. We're all good. It's interesting. And that's kind of what we, kind of what I was saying there again is it's just for people that are making a living on the European tour, it's a very different conversation, I think, in huge appearance fee cash grab. But I want to hear kind of about open and what's the most interesting place you traveled on the challenge tour. Interesting. We love that.

Actually guys about Kazakhstan. I don't know what. Kazakhstan. Look, I've never heard of it. I've never heard of it. I've never heard of it. I've never heard of it. Isn't that Borat thing? No, one exporter.

I was going to say, that's just about the only place I've ever heard about Kazakhstan's Borat. So that was my only sort of point of reference. Yeah, how out of the capture that, that's not the same at all, it's really pretty. I found it to be quite different than I portrayed it. I've loved Eastern Europe. The Eastern countries I've been have been stunning in the town. And everything's really affordable, and the people are really nice.

So I've never been to Kazakhstan. People really friendly. Really weird things that they love horse to eat. Horse, like steaks. So Rose and my wife and I were by the hotel in dinner one night and I didn't have the horse, but there were these local Kazakhstan people having alcohol and they were having a party. And after a bit they started chatting to us, they're like, no, no, come to our house. We'll have some horse steak. And I was like, no, no, come to our house. We'll have some more steak and I was like,

okay, that sounds great, I'll see you there. But yeah, obviously it didn't go, so it's a little odd. But all in all, it was a beautiful country. Yeah, I love the, just kind of how European Tour and Challenge Tour, how much you got to grow up in mature. Because it is an experience going to some of these places. It's not, you're in a bit of a bubble, going and playing golf in these places,

but you're also getting quite a bit of culture shock in a lot of places too. Absolutely, yeah. Another reason why I think guys need to go out and play different tours. There's so many guys here that are good enough to play professionally, but they don't actually go out. And part of it is to learn how to be uncomfortable.

It wasn't easy going leaving South Africa to go play the China surrogate, to European countries, different cultures, go to Kazakhstan, go to China. You got to learn how to travel, where to stay, excuse me. What to eat, what not to eat, you know. And then to be honest, sometimes you plan some shitty golf courses.

Well, you're still playing for your living and you're still trying to get your opinion to a card, so suck it up and go make the 10-foot bumpy put that you've got, you know. So that's just part of getting here. So you kind of lead there with what to eat and what not to eat. So what if you not eat and that you would not eat again then? here. So you kind of led there with what Eden, what Eden, what not to eat. So where, what, what have you not eaten that you would not eat again then? Oh, I'm pretty safe eater to be honest. We were in China playing the Volvo China last year. I had a Chinese team at Edmondo Souten. He lives in, what is it, Chenzhen and took us out to this Chinese market and they had stinky tofu

which it sounds great. It's like, it looks like sort of melted tar, and these chunks of it, and he bought this sort of bucket of it and was eating it, and it smells horrendous. And Alex took a bite of it, but I happily declined. So yeah, we saw some rough stuff. What's it, I mean, what's it like when you go to some random place like this and say, for instance, like you miss the cut, like, and you play poorly and you're really far from home? Yeah.

What's, take me there because that's a side of golf that no normal person on this. Should I ever see, you know what I mean? Yeah, if you're lucky, you can get a flat out, otherwise the hotel and, you know, the room, so slide hotel and, you know, the room, so a slide out, are you going back to South Africa? Are you just on to the next stop? As in, as in China, still, anywhere. I mean, I'm just curious.

Probably next stop. Get there a couple of days early, hopefully they allow you to practice, otherwise you find a place nearby. You know, there was a point on China, still, where I did eight weeks in a row. So I'm not going back to South Africa, I can't afford it and you know jet lag and all that stuff. So yeah, next stop is probably the best option. What is golf in South Africa? Like, I mean,

you were born near Cape Town right? Yeah, in Cape Town. You grew up in near Joeburg. Is that right? Or better both? Okay. Born in Cape Town, partly in Pretoria, which is near Johannesburg, and then small town near George called Otsurink. So, yeah, good luck with that. Oh, sorry. Was that close? That's close enough. Yeah, about 40 minutes from George or fan courts, I used to drive there three times a week during high school and practice there. Golf's, I think, changing a lot into Africa. There's huge efforts being made to develop new players, going to poor areas and get the kids involved.

At the moment, it's still very much an expensive sport, which it's all around the world. For sure. But for some reason, we've always got players coming through. It's going to say, that's what I want to get at, especially with the competitive, like what I was asking about the competitiveness of the sunshine tours. Yeah.

I would imagine for, it can't be an enormous golf population. No, it's not that good. It's really small compared to a place like this. Yeah, and so the amount of competitive players that come out, that's where I just wonder, I would imagine seeing Gary Player and Ernie L's come through that almost everyone competing in golf growing up in South Africa understands that there is a very clear path to success within it. Is that kind of what helps,

like those kind of inspiration, is that drive a lot of the competitive spirit of the South African player? Absolutely, I think so. With being a small country, we're all very patriotic. And small country, how many people live inside Africa? 16 million, 55 million? Okay. So it's not like a small European country, but there's a really small golfing population. So we all look up to people like Gary and Ernie and Trevor, Louis Shaw, and we all see the road that they take, but at the same time it pumps you up because it's like,

well, they did it. I can do it too. Is Ernie the biggest inspiration for people from your generation? I think so. Yeah. Ernie the thief. Those are the guys that I keep naming them. Keep forgetting them.

I'm like, oh, my God, it is amazing. What can you tell us about? What does the president's cup mean to somebody like from South Africa? Is it a bigger deal than probably like American street that the president's got? Yeah, absolutely. It grew up, especially with it going there when you were younger.

Yeah, I went and watched. Really? Yeah, I was there. I wasn't there on this Sunday when they had the playoff, but it's a massive deal. I spoke to her and he about it in Saudi. I missed the cotton. He was there. It was a to her and he about it in Saudi. I missed the card. And he was there.

It was a sat today. And he got done with these rounds. And we had a bit of a chat. And I spoke about the presence cup, because he knows that I was kind of pissed off that I didn't make the team. But it's a big deal for us. And we really want to win.

I think we were all myself included, pretty bleak that they didn't win in Australia. But I think that's part of the hurdle that they've got to get over. It's such a big deal for them that maybe that's why they stumble. But and I think until the international team start winning, I think on you then will it be a bigger deal for the Americans?

Were you lobbying pretty hard for a spot from Canada? How was it? I sent them a text. What's a text like that look like? What did you say? I was just like, pick me, pick me. Pretty much. I was like, dude, this is why I think I need you to be in the team.

I think I'll make a big difference up and playing really well. Pick me. And he gave me a call the next day and I was like, look, I'm really sorry we're going to go with this guy and this guy. And then at the net bank a week or so later, he came and we had a chat about it. So it was, look, it was great. Yeah. There's no like a chat about it. So it was great. Yeah, there's no like ill feelings about it. Absolutely not. And at the same hand, I'm playing for a pick.

You know, it's like, if I did my job earlier in the air, I would have been in the team. So it's kind of up to me to go play the best golf. Do you like in particular playing fast firm golf courses? I'm gonna say no, because last week wasn't firm and fast. The greens were pretty firm a little bit. No, not, not, no.

I played firm. I played my firm greens. It's firm underneath the trees in the rough of the trees. Yes, yes. Well, like on 10, when you just missed the green from the bunker and it goes 50 yards away from the ground. So I'm asking that as in, what kind of playing conditions did you grow up playing? Like Chipotle to pack.

Yeah. Very similar. Never played Ling Skolf my life until the Dunhill links of 2016 I think, fell in love with it. So I was going to say what was your reaction playing that for the first time? That's so cool man. It's so awesome. Not a lot of players seem to love competing on Ling's golf courses, but a lot of them love playing that

is that I have a lot of competing in any scenario with it's some guys don't like them some of the bounces and they think it's unfair in some ways as well. I'm saying that. Well, go play a different sport but I agree with you. Listen, you don't have to explain that to me. Some of these, some of these guys will bitch about those. It's funny. So what about Beth Page that, I guess,

in the early parts of that week, are your eyes lighting up? Are you saying this is a great setup for me or was your success there a surprise to you in any way? And yeah, I wasn't a surprise. I feel like I always expect myself to do okay or to do well, but first time around I was like, whoa. I mean, some of those Paul Fores, like Tain for example,

first tee shot out, they're playing Praxron, and miss the fairway on the right-hand side, and do your land up with the gap wedge here, and he still got 120 yards to the hole. So it was intimidating right off the bat, and then when you go around it again, it's like, okay, hit it here, it's like, okay, hit it here. It's going to be okay.

Hit it here. You figure it out around. How would you, for people that aren't familiar, maybe didn't watch this past weekend? How would you describe your game? Are you a ball striker? Are you a bomber? Are you put the lights out? How would you describe your own game?

I think it's changed over the last couple years. I think I've always been a good ball striker. I think the part that was lacking was my putting. I think it's changed over the last couple of years. I think I've always been a good ball striker. I think the part that was lacking was my putting. I think it's improved tremendously. It's part of the reason why I'm out here. Someone asked me last week what's my favourite two clubs and I said driver and putter. That's absolute truth.

Am I a bummer? No. I hit it probably further than most, but I'm not a DJ or a Brux or a Rory. But yeah, I think ball striking's always been a good part of my game. I think I'm going to steal this one from Brad Faxon, asked me this question earlier. He made me grade each of my games, driving,

approach, chipping, and putting. I've never had to do that. It was a great thought exercise. That is. What grade would you give your driving? A through F. At the moment, B plus. Okay. Yeah, what about your-

Simply because I think I can hit Malfa always. Okay. Your approach game, your iron play. A. A. Yeah. And then your chipping. A.

And your putting. A plus. Wow. All right, that is a good conversation. You weren't talking to me earlier. There's room for- There's room for- There's always, look, we're all wait.

People are so funny, people ask me, what are you working on? Dude, I'm working on everything. It's my job. But there always room for improvement. Who do you work with on your swing? Coach from back home, same as Doug Wood. In Johannesburg, we've been working with him since August of 2018. Is that mostly through video?

Is it some sort of person? No, he comes out. he was at the Genesis. I wasn't supposed to play Genesis and you got a light invite. So we were going to have the week off here at Bez Club and work on stuff and ended up having to mix things about it, but he comes out often, he's back at the players. So yeah, I'll send him videos when I'm practicing here at home and we'll chat about stuff, but I mean, we work on everything together. Is there any temptation just kind of going back to the, whether it's sunshine tour days

to now? Is there any temptation to like overdose on the technology aspects of things? Now, do you have a lot of stuff thrown at you? Try this, try this, let's see these numbers. What's it got to you? Track man on new clubs or? Yeah, I think kind of all of it. I mean, now that you've got kind of every resource that

you're disposal, you're going to need to go down the range and see all the different things that you're using. And you can get so caught up. You can get lost down that rabbit hole of, well, I'm doing this because I'm trying to get beta. Well, is it actually helping you, bud? Like, do you really need to know what your, I don't know, pick a weird number from Trackman? Like, was that number really gonna help you knowing that?

Well, if the answer's not, then why are you looking at it? Yeah, so. It helped me with this too, with South Africa. When I was there, I was there for like a decently extended period of time, and I was like, I wonder where, like if I could jump a flight somewhere and go check out something else in the area, I really realized how isolated South Africa felt from the rest of the world

Did you sense that when you being from there do you sense that and having been around the world? Do you get more of a sense of that having yeah having been around the world now? Yes when you live there You're like, oh, okay. It's we're sensitive the universe meanwhile you're breaking away down there So yeah, absolutely. It's really hard to get to. That was a random side effort question. But what I was getting ready to ask also is having played a few more PGA tour events,

comparing contrast, the playing style of the PGA tour, the at least the events you've played to the European tour. And if you see a difference in the skills that are required. I see here, I see a lot of guys trying really hard to hit it really far as opposed to Europe where I'm not saying guys here aren't trying to do that but you have to be kind of skillful. I don't think the courses are as long in Europe. However, you facing a course that maybe isn't as well manicured. You know, you're facing the elements a little bit more, perhaps. So it's a little

bit different, guys are always focusing on how far can I hit it? So yeah, maybe a little bit of a different. You see that being rewarded on golf courses more on the PGA tour? I think so. I think so. It's obviously a huge talk and point these days as well with how far the ball's flying. It's not like I'm not trying to hit it further, but I think also I think there's a right way and a wrong way to go about that. At the end of the day, golf is still a game

where it's got to be skillful, right? And being creative and having all different kinds of shots, I think that's more important than just being able to hit at 360. Well, that kind of, was that your first time at Riviera this year? Yes, yeah. So that's kind of the thing you're always here in the broadcast or from players, it's just such a great golf course, and like put into perspective why what makes it so great golfers?

It's one of my favorites, absolutely, because first of all, what I love about it, it's old, okay? Which means, look, we don't have to build courses 8,000 yards for it to be difficult. The green complexes probably one of the best in the world, the way it's designed, the greens aren't small, but there's slopes on them, and when they get firm, that makes the landing area is really tiny. They can tuck pins, you've got a combination of long holes, short holes

with really tricky greens. There's almost no rough out there and what 11 under part 1. I think that's what guys love. The course doesn't have to be 8,000 yards with firm greens for it to be difficult. I think you build a tricky little golf course that's got rough and firm greens. It's going to be a test. Where do you, how plugged in are you on the USGA recent distance report that came out? I haven't even read it. What about any kind of insight as a tour player, what you think of any potential limiting on distance

or where you stand on how far the ball goes these days. I think if they wanted to do it, they should have done it 10 years ago. I'm, you know, I think guys are heading it further for more than just one reason. Take a guy like Bryson, for example, he just got freaking jacked in a short space of time and he's hitting it a lot further.

So everybody's working out, maybe an answer is working out and he's a small dude. We're all doing it and that's part of the reason you now see kids like Matthew Wolfe, who's an athlete, they might have gone down to play baseball 30 years ago. Renale, these guys are playing golf. And they grew up playing the equipment that's available to them. So I think it's kind of silly to just let the game go. I think that's the best argument against any kind of adjustment is the toothpaste is out of the tube.

It's gone too far. I think it's gone too far. And the game doesn't change. The game, you're still trying to shoot as low as you possibly can, and you're still trying to win the golf tournament. Take River Error, for example. 11 under one. It wasn't a guy that hits absolute bombs all the time

and has lobbergen everywhere. And it's not that type of course anyway. So I think it's stupid. That's very fair. One thing that by the time this goes up at my already, the whole thing might already be dead. But somebody like in your position, recently into the top 50 in the world, this premier golf league. Have you given any consideration as anybody talked to you? Have you looked at it from afar and thought it's dumb? Thought it's great. What do you where do you stand?

I've had one guy talk to me about it. Hey, just some reporter from Europe asked me what I think about it. At the time, I didn't know much about it at all. I then spoke to Ernie about it and got his opinion on it. I don't really know. It's a really interesting one because I think that the most difficult part is if you are playing and then let's say you have three or four bad weeks in a row and the team manager, captains, whatever you're like, okay, dude, we're going to bring in with someone else. Where do you go? Where are you going to play?

However, at the same hand, I think any kind of competition in any industry is healthy. So has the European tour provided, I haven't followed this close enough, has the European tour provided any feedback for players as to that question? The PGA Tour has said you are playing our tour or you are playing that tour. There's no crossover. Has there been any conversations with the European Taurus to like, you know, any kind of overlap or anything? Looking around the room for an answer here.

I don't believe European Taurus has come out with a strict sort of ban if you're gonna play the PJL. So, I'll actually be interested to see what they say. I think maybe perhaps they're also waiting to see what's going to happen. Because that makes more sense for some kind of overlap there, in my opinion, then the current structure of the European tour and an opportunity like that, I think they're, I don't know. I'm asking because I don't think their position should or would be as harsh as the PGA tours, because you asked the most important question there, where are you going

to go play? Yeah. And I don't know if this league is going to happen or not, but I would have a hard time seeing the European tour and be like, no, you can't come play on our tour at all if you done this. So, at the end of the day, I just love playing golf for living. And I'm sure there's going to be somewhere to play. So the PGL sounds like a really cool idea.

Do I think they've got a lot of hurdles to overcome? Yeah, I think they do. So let's see what happens. When you're coming down the stretch, like the most recent week in in Mexico and you get to a point where you've kind of realized that you're not gonna win the golf tournament, do you, there's your mind turned to cash at any point?

No, but there was a moment where I was like, OK, shit, I can't win this anymore. That really sucks. But this is still my job, and this is still my career, and I do have a lot to play for. So let's go finish this out strong. So I never goes to cash. When did that stop?

Do you think where? Did it never like that? No, it's never like that. Even when you had five events left or a challenge tour, that's where you're going home. Yeah. You're thinking about what position I've got to finish. I'm not like, hey, babe, here's another five grand. Yeah.

You know? So I've never functioned that way. It's never really motivated me to be honest. The successful players all say that. Some guys, I remember Paulie is saying, I wouldn't get that nervous going for a win, but if it's between fourth and fifth place, I'd be more nervous because he'd say, I'm joking for the cash. It's just a different, I would imagine a different thing you're striving for.

Yeah, absolutely. I was, I had the amount of points on the FedEx coupleist in mind, which I guess, translates to money in the end, but I certainly didn't play it for the money. So, yeah. What is the coolest, your favorite, or the coolest golf course you've ever played? Wow. First impressions, the course that stands out to me was Carnus D. If it was my first open championship, what was crazy was I went there three or four

weeks before the tournament to go prep and play and it was lush green, rough was like knee height and I thought it was going to be like the time Paul Laurie won, you know and then I get to the event and it's grey and Fairways are like concrete. I'm hitting four and literally 300 yards So it was all back the ball Where's my ballad, you know? So, what are they going to say? Yes, so what I loved was, holy shit, it's changed overnight. And then again, it comes back to how much I just enjoy Ling's golf. It's so different. So, yeah, Cornusty. What's the anticipation like for your first masters? I'm pumped. Really pumped. I don't know what I'm most excited for. That first T-Shot on Thursday or playing Amin Corner for the first time. I was there in 09 watching the Monday

practice round, so I've been there. But I'm just, yeah, everything driving down my learning lane. Look, obviously, a lot of it's so hyped with, you know, because because of what it is. But yeah, I'm just really excited. What? I'm curious. Do you have any joggers at the masters? Yeah, I'm sorry. Of course. What, uh, what's six hours of your favorite masters memory?

Um, here's to someone who both is from South Africa and also grew up in the Tiger generation. Yeah, I Didn't I was too young. I never I only played but saw playing off on his eight so when Tiger won I was seven Didn't really play and you know, so he won in 97 I didn't really play back then But I remember watching film like that putt to when he's first one. The reason I remember that was because he beat Ernie by one. I was going to guess it. Oh, for wasn't your favorite because of that. Yeah. Charles wins got to be my favorite. I think I almost broke down in tears when he won.

I don't know why. Just because it was so cool for me. Again, fellow countrymen. I was sitting in my now in laws, little then that they've got having a, you know, ham sandwich with my father, no, him winning was just so cool. Who's a guy that you would see, I promise we'll let you go here soon, but who's a guy you would see on your pairing, like you're paired with this guy and you'd get the most excited to go play with, or the most be like, oh cool, what a great pair in this week, Tiger. Tiger's easy answer, I was kind of angling for, who are some of your buddies that you would like really enjoy playing with the most?

Dylan for Tally. Yeah. We're good friends. That'd be cool. I don't know. Goodness me, that's a tough one. Well, that was an easy one. The next one is the tough one.

It's just, who would you get paired with that you wouldn't want to play with? I love waiting till the end to make people really uncomfortable. I'm not going to play that. Three more questions about Saudi before you. I didn't think I'd get you on that. I'm not going to play it. It was worth it tried. I would say that for the end then I shut it off then you tell me who the guy is. And then I can go tell everyone that's not a good guy.

So I think we're good here. We're going to let you get out of your house, I guess I should say, but thanks for letting us come down. Absolutely, thanks guys. Congrats on all the success and looks, hopefully, you got to lock up that tour car to your soon. Absolutely, thank you so much to yourz, cheers guys. It's gonna be a right club.

Be the right club today. Yes! Ready, that's better than most. Be the right club today. Yes. That is better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most. Expect anything different.