No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 304: Patrick Cantlay

Episode Date: April 20, 2020

Patrick Cantlay rose quickly through the amateur ranks, and burst onto the professional golf scene as a young amateur before leaving UCLA. He then encountered adversity on top of adversity with injury and personal tragedy, and has clawed his way back inside the top-10 in the world. He takes us through the near career-ending back injury, how he's still dealing with that today, Augusta National, the Presidents Cup at Royal Melbourne, playing for Tiger Woods, his comments that were caught by hot mics at Kapalua, and so much more.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yes! That is better than most. I'm not in. That is better than most. Better than most. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No-Lang Up Podcast. Sully here had a chance to chat with Patrick Cantlay on Friday of last week. First time he's been on the podcast, somebody we've wanted to have on for quite some time. I hope he comes back on.

I feel like we could do three or four of these a year. He speaks so well on a number of different topics. We really just kind of scratch the service. We didn't even talk about either of his two PGA Tour wins just because we got in really deep on his injury history and kind of what his what his path to to you know success on the PGA tour and the world golf scene has looked like. So excited for you guys to get to that. We have strapped rolling on episode two of the Southern California series, featuring Max Holma, Max Holma is gonna make his debut in episode two, which comes out as premiering on Tuesday,

8 o'clock PM Eastern. I promise we are continuing to pump out the content, but we are going to run out of it. We are going to empty the coffers at some point. And if you're looking for more, I'm still kind of trying to wrap my head around what I watched in the Callaway education video. It showed Wesley Bryan, showing how to hit

like a low spinner around the green and how he does it with an open club face. I know, I've seen stuff like in, you know, about Tiger Woods, in like draw chips and I just don't understand how any of this stuff works and it makes me, it's kind of, it's a weird Pandora's box to open and I'm wondering if I want to do it but you can see it for yourself on the Calaway YouTube channel how some of these guys hit golf shots and while you're there, you might enjoy some of their latest video podcasts. They had Will Gordon and Kevin

Kizner on their show lately and for those equipment geeks, you might want to watch their fitting room episode with the folks from TXG where they talk about how the Maverick driver dominated the TXG driver bracket challenge. And as well, they got a many documentary coming out this week about you and LV standout Shantero ban, how the COVID-19 situation is wreaking havoc on his efforts to make it to the tour. So all this is available at the Callaway Golf YouTube channel. You can of course follow Callaway Golf on Twitter and Instagram for the latest on equipment plus entertaining and educational golf content. Without any further delay, here is our interview with Patrick Cantlay. What do you, how you been spending your time? What do you been up to?

And how sharp is the game in this, in this time period. Yeah well I've just been in a jukehead hanging out at home pretty much all day. Fortunately I finished a gym here a few months ago so I've just been working out. Six days a week in the morning and other than that not a lot just reading and hanging out. The game is not particularly sharp right now. I have a hit balls. I haven't actually really played since players on Thursday. So I'm going to wait till we get like a confirmed tournament out and then I'll probably practice about a month before that. And so hopefully this season can start, you know, middle of June like they came out a couple of days ago and stuff. can start, you know, middle of June, like they came out a couple of days ago and stuff. Yeah, are you banking on that actually coming to fruition when you saw middle of June, what was your initial reaction?

The best thing to do would be just to prepare as if that is what's going to happen, but know that it's possible that it won't. I obviously, as well as a bunch of other people, hope that it does come to fruition. But if anything I've learned about this over the last, a bunch or so is that it's very uncertain. And it wouldn't surprise me if something happened and it got more time to miss back canceled or the start date got pushed back further.

How long have you been in Jupiter? And was that kind of an immediate thing that you knew as soon as you were turning pro? You were, take a step, you grew up in Southern California and can you explain to us why why Jupiter becomes such a haven for people? Sure, so yeah, I grew up near Long Beach and last year I met us in California.

And I went to UCLA for a couple of years. And then I lived in Long Beach for like a year, a year or so, when I first turned three. And then I moved to Jupiter actually after I healed the stress fraction of my back for the first time, like in 14. But I re-entered myself maybe four or five months into moving to Jupiter the first time.

And so then after that, I moved back to California until I wanna say 17 or 17 or 18, I think 18, start of 18, I moved back to Jupiter. I like it here, it's a lot easier for travel. There's live events that are around the East Coast. And when we do travel back to the west coast, it's nicer at the beginning of the week to gain the hours when you travel. Opposed to when you're in on the west coast and you have to go to the east coast, if you travel on let's say a Monday for

a tournament, you lose the entire Monday. Not to mention taxes are much better. And the advantage of learning the metagrass or getting really comfortable on the metagrass, which in California, I didn't really grow up on. That's a lot of interesting things. I never thought about the West Coast East Coast. I always say it's no matter what the distance, whenever you're traveling east, it always makes it difficult, especially if you're going at least three time zones West to East so what you mentioned Bermuda there how much of a Learning curve is something like learning a new grass type when did you learn Bermuda or what what explain like it? People that are from California what their relationship is like with that kind of grass

Well, I think especially younger being younger and and playing junior buff, you don't really have you don't really have a good idea of like when you're changing grasses, it's just as grass, right? Because you're not sophisticated enough in what you're doing, until you get maybe to a back high school when you start realizing what the air different types of grasses and that can dictate the technique you use. So growing up in California, you know, we have cacuia grass out there and that's probably the technique you use. So growing up in California, we have cacura grass out there, and that's probably the one native grass

we have there that they don't have in the rest of the country. So I feel really comfortable on that. The mutagrass I probably got introduced to it middle of high school when I first started traveling for tournaments out of state. That's probably 15 or so. And definitely there's an initial shock factor when you get an into the grain from you to chip shot because your technique has to completely change and you have to hit a lot more golf

buff first. I like to get more shaft lean and really took the buff first. But the first time you see it, the tendency is to just chunk it about a foot in front of you, and that's really startling when you're just starting to get to the age where you're used to hitting chips really bad at the time, you know? Yeah, that's what I'm interested just to hear kind of what your considerations are.

Pros considerations are like, because I know for like a lot of people from the North, like amateur golfers, when they go travel south, they just pull immediately, say like, I hate Bermuda, I hate Bermuda. And I was just curious if you had a, if it was, if something you felt like you needed to learn and how well that skill plays on the PGA tour, for just for the listeners to say, how often are you guys playing on Bermuda grass? And is it something that you felt like you definitely needed to have that skill to be competitive out there. We kind of didn't address a lot of the floor to swing and there's actually a lot of golf courses I think that are going to some of these new strains of Bermuda because they're healthier for you

around with less headache as far as the maintenance or ground we go. For example, even my golf club that I grew up at in Long Beach, Virginia Country Club, has gone to Bermuda in the last three or four years. They used to oversee it with Rye, but then in August September, when it was start to get hot, the Rye would basically burn up and they had to keep the golf course really wet to try and hold on to the ragrass. So instead of having a bad golf course, I guess September, they decided to get a permuda and the golf course is way healthier year round and the surface is much better, but it misses that green look. But playing them tour, being able to play all the different types of grasses, whether it's permida, or cacuia, ryegrass, or sometimes you play on Zoyzha, and then even if you want

to get even more particular, there's even different strains of each, like bluegrass is similar to rye, but it's not exactly the same. We travel so often and we play so many different places and so many different climates that we get used to playing in all those grasses and we almost change our technique to suit the grasses and the lies, shot to shot, week to week without thinking about it. It's almost secondhand. It's almost like natural now, but at the start it is definitely on the fourth line of your mind that, oh, I'm on Bermuda, and it's into the green. I need the shaft lean more. I need to make sure I put the ball maybe a little farther back in my stance

and catch ball first, which is going to make it come out lower. And you have to get used to seeing and computing the shots that way. That's interesting. I think a lot of listeners at home and viewers on TV when they watch TV, they hear the broadcasters talk about different grass types, but not a ton of them on the considerations of the different shots you need. Before we get kind of into the nuts and bolts of your back injury and the time you spend away from the game on a somewhat more lighthearted note, does this quarantine period, hearken back at all to the considerable time you spent away from the game in your early 20s. Have you learned any skills for passing time in that period that are paying off in this time period? Yeah, it's similar, except, obviously, the biggest difference was it got to a point before

where I was curious how it would be if I weren't able to get back. And, you know, some days there was a question, well, I ever even be able to get back to play. It's a lot easier to have time off when that's not a big question looming in your head every day. But I noticed that it is difficult to find, like, meaning or motivation throughout the day. And I feel when I have a bunch of time off, I feel more accomplished if I'm reading. It feels like I can absorb information and learn a little more and broaden my horizons a little bit.

So I try and read some every day and some days I'm more motivated than others and I get further along in my book than others but I definitely feel like I at least did a little something for self-improvement if I can knock out some pages every day. Yeah, I would imagine this is a lot different in a lot of ways to what you went through back. Back and I want to what you went through back. And I want to go through the timeline before I start saying too many dates here. But I think for a lot of hardcore golf fans, they're familiar with your amateur career and work ready for your arrival in the professional scene.

And your injury, I'm not saying you became the forgotten man, but for a lot of casual fans that maybe weren't as tuned in for you yet, they probably weren't following your progress as closely as maybe as some people that were much more familiar with your amateur career. So why don't we kind of go back into some of your amateur career and it's always hard for me to get people to brag about themselves, but you spent two years at UCLA before turning pro. Can you kind of set the scene for the success you had there and in your amateur career and what made you decide to turn pro? Let's see, well I picked UCLA, I got some really good advice from my coach Jamie Mulligan who has taught me since I was 9 and continues to be my swing coach today. And he basically said you should go to all the schools that you're visiting. This is when I was in high school.

And imagine where you would feel like you would like to live for a couple years. Which I thought was really good advice and different from a lot of advice that I got from others. As far as people wanted to say which coach do you like or which program do you like or where do they play their golf etc. So once I got to UCLA I realized that it would be a really cool place to live and so I enjoyed my two years that I had there. And going there in high school definitely when I committed and even when I was as a freshman, I really believed that I'd be there for four years and I'd get a degree. It didn't really enter my mind as a thought

that I would turn to early. After my freshman year, maybe because the end of my freshman year, that sense started to change a little bit, and then it really started to change in that summer when I played well in a lot of professional events, the summer after the freshman year of college. And I realized that the guys on tour and not as good as I thought they were compared to me and that I can play out on tour.

It's just a matter of when I decided I want to play out on tour, to play. And that was really eye-opening. And I don't think I would have, I was very fortunate to have had the experiences to play in those three or four PGA tournaments that summer. And it gave me a lot of confidence, whether it was, you know, your regular assessment was real or not,

like it was really the case that I could play with those guys, or I was just very naive. And I, and, and I was a young kid with lots of confidence. And I felt like I could either way it gave me a lot of confidence and I felt very self assured that I could make it out on tour when I turned pro. And so I stayed one more year and then decided it was the best opportunity for me to turn pro.

I'd get seven sponsors exemptions into tour events and I was able to get some sponsors together and I felt like if it's what I wanted to do for a career now was a good time as any. Yeah, there's a lot to unpack there. I think one you're being a bit modest by saying you had success on the PGA tour that year. I was pulling it up and you made five starts on the tour that year as an amateur and you made four top 25s. I believe including a 60 at the travelers. But I'm curious. You said the guys on tour weren't as good as you thought they were. I'm what did you, I guess, what was your impression of what they were before you

got there and what changed? What did you see that changed kind of how you visioned the top level of golf? Well, I think there's a couple of things that were at play there. One of the things being when you watch golf on TV, you're watching the guys in the lead, and you're watching Tiger, and you're watching Phil, and you're watching the greats of the game. And when you qualify for the US Open as a 19-year-old and they pair you with, who you're paired with, you go out last in the wave and you're not playing with Tiger and you're not playing

under the scrutiny of cameras everywhere. And the guys at the bottom level of the PJ Tour are not on the same level as the great so the game. And so I grew up imagining everyone striping it and hitting it really, really far and hitting it really, really high and hitting it way better than the guys in college. And that's just not really the case for the majority of PGA tour players.

The majority of PGA tour players are just masters at getting the ball in the hole and positioning their golf ball around and making a good score, getting up and down a lot, getting the easy ones up and down almost every time and getting a few up and down that, you know, a college player would never get up and down. And so playing with some of the guys that summer that I was, you know, paired with, I have, I think when an expectation was so high for how they would hit the golf ball and how they would strategize around the golf course, that it was just lower than my expectation because growing up you watch all that amazing golf and you watch the greats of the game and you just imagine that being so far away from where you are.

And a lot of development happens in your body and your mind between ages 15 and 19 or 15 and 20 and I had made a lot of progress between 15 and 20. A quick break here to check in with our friends at Raycon. You guys have heard me talk about this. I got a lot of messages after we mentioned in the last time on the podcast, R-A-Y-C-O-N, that's Raycon. Everyone needs a pair of wireless headphones,

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for 15% off Raycon wireless earbuds buyraycon.com slash no laying up. Let's get back to Patrick Cantley. How would you describe your game? I know people listening to this are familiar and have watched you on television. I'm sure that much smaller percentage have gone out and followed you at tour events. But I spend at least a decent amount of time trying to piece together what makes the top players in the world, the top players, where they're gaining a true advantage over other top players in the world. The answer is often rooted in distance. And also I think in stroke's game to approach with Ironplay. But as someone that you're not a bomber, you hit it far, but you're not DJ type link. But how would you describe where

you gain an advantage over a run of the mill or average tor pro. I think it's hard to gain consistently in less its ball striking which I think was not really the, wasn't the consensus before shots gained so I think that has a large majority to do with it. And then also I'm fairly consistent, not only in play, but I'm consistent in off-the-daff course things as well, and preparation for tournaments. So I'm a phone believer to that.

Basically, by the time you get to the first year on Thursday, it's almost entirely already decided how you're going to play based on the work that you've done leading up to it and all your experiences leading up to it. You don't slip a switch on Thursday on the first T and go, aw, now I'm going to turn it on. So I think my preparation and the way I go about preparing for tournaments is probably my biggest asset and my ability to be consistent in getting my work done and staying to a to a game plan or a strategy for getting

ready for an event is is a big part of me being able to perform consistently on tour. Well coming out as your turning pro coming out of college and you had mentioned you you hadn't planned on turning pro that quickly with at least when you started college. So what was the hype level like? I mean were you starting to feel any sort of outside pressure? The expectations for you I think changed with the success you had both in amateur events and as an amateur in pro events. Did that have any kind of material effect on you? Definitely. Definitely, my sophomore year going back to playing college golf was a let down after playing

so many PGA tour events. Right. And that's, I think that's just human nature. You play in some huge events and that becomes exciting and the level of play is so much higher that you kind of raise your play or raise your focus level to compete on that level. And going back to college events wasn't just wasn't as exciting as it was the previous year and not only that I realized that I could play at the PGA tour level and that I really enjoyed it and I realized that it is exactly what

I want to do and so knowing all that and having had some success out there, I just wanted to go out and do that as quick as possible. And so my sophomore year of college was a little like, like, I really wanted, I really wanted to be playing out there professionally, but I don't think I was quite ready right after my freshman summer to kind of turn for all. So I think it actually worked out well and I was able to play the Masters as an amateur that sophomore year. And so I think it all worked out for the best. But definitely by the time June rolled around June of 2012, I was pumped to go out and

play and I was excited to compete on the highest level. So take us through the timeline then of your injury, your back injury. I want to know if did you have any back problems in your life, in your career leading up to that point, and what triggered was a specific incident that just triggered an injury and kind of how that all played out. I don't think I was particularly well informed about the body and what you could do for the body growing up as far as feeling good. And I kind of had it in my brain that, yeah, my back might be a little stiff or it might be a little sore, but that's normal.

And there's nothing that's really the matter. You just kind of, fight through it and maybe I won't hit as many balls today, but tomorrow I'll feel better. And I think that was a very uninformed young person's approach to it. And so thinking back on it, there were some warning signs as far as my back goes, but at the time I wasn't clicked in enough to realize that they were warning signs. I just figured you know playing golf and hitting a lot of golf balls. Yeah everyone's gonna be a little sore and my idea was to kind of just manage it as best I could and play So, when I actually did have the injury in 13, I believe, at Colonial, warming up on the range.

It was so much, it was such a different pain than what I'd realized or what I dealt with before at all. I mean, before it was just kind of sore or tight. This was actually really, really painful. But I was still so naive and young. I figured, I'll be able to play next week in the US Open Cloud Fire and Monday. I'll be able to go play those 36 Huls.

And I flew to Washington, DC. And I figured, the next Monday, I'd be good to go. It's just, I feel better soon. It's just some muscles in there. And it took me a while before I found a doctor who actually identified that it was a stress fracture and I actually had a broken bone. I posed to just muscle weakness or soreness or a stringed ligament or something. And so how, you get the diagnosis, do you have a broken bone?

What's next? Where do you go? Is it immediately like, I know I'm on the shelf for quite some time? Because it basically, from what I gather, it was almost a starting stop at least during this time period of thinking you were kind of close to being back and then realizing

that things were much more serious. That's right. So for a stress-ratcher, you need to rest. And the doctor basically described it as, I'm like, how long do I need to rest. And the doctor basically described it as, you know, I'm like, how long do I need to rest? He's like, well, I can heal as soon as six weeks and it can take up to a year to heal. And that's really, really hard to hear when you're just starting and you want to play all the time. That was really difficult to swallow, especially the unknown of what could be six weeks or it could be a year. I mean, that's a big discrepancy in town.

And when I did get heard at Colonial, I think at the time I was leading or close to the lead of the web.com money list. So I felt like I had already wrapped up a tour card, you know, for the following season, following a win in Columbia. And so I was in a difficult spot because I didn't know how long it would take to heal, but obviously I wanted it to heal quicker than it probably was going to. And I wanted to make sure I at least stayed in the top 25 on the web.com money list.

And I thought I might be able to do it without playing any events the rest of the season. And so I watched it really closely. And I think with, you know, three weeks left and three tournaments left, I went to the doctor again and asked him, you know, how much damage could I do if I play? And, you know, what are the long-term effects? And what's your opinion? Here's my situation. You know, if I could make a cutter too, I'm probably going to get my tour card for next year. If I don't make any cuts, I may not have a tour card next year.

And so I talked with him and he basically said, listen, I don't think you're going to do any long-term damage. It's not like that. It's not a disc problem. I don't you can't make it worse. If it's not crazy, you know, if you can tolerate the pain to play, he's like, I don't think it's going to long-term affect your your back health. It may delay your healing slightly, but it's not going to be anything that You can't necessarily make it worse. The damage is already done. So I decided to play the last two Web.com regular season events and I went out the first week and missed the cut and

I was not swinging a hundred percent and I was trying to tie that down my back and I went and played the last event in Omaha of the regular season and I was like number 24 on the money list or something and I needed to basically make cut just make any type of money. So I heard my top 25 position and I came to the 36 hole on Friday on the cut line and I drove it in the rough and didn't get up and down and missed the cut by a shot and ended up falling to like 26 on the money list. And so that was a real love. And I was in lots of pain, manageable, but in pain.

And I went back to the hotel room and I was talking with my buddy Chris who was counting for me at the time. And I asked him what he thought, and he goes, you know, you played these last two weeks, you almost made the cut this week with obviously in pain and having not really played at all because I had been out for four months or whatever before these events started.

And he goes, the web.com, I think it was the first year of the new web.com finals. He goes, come on, I know you can do it, let's go play next week in the web finals in Fort Wayne, Indiana. And I went to Fort Wayne early, played a practice round. I probably took like Monday off or something. And then I basically just decided, however much it hurts, I mean if it's time like it doesn't hurt. And I'm going to do my best to block out all the pain entirely. And it actually worked. I felt way better than I did the last couple of weeks just by adopting that mindset and swinging like normal, that feels straight than everything. And I played well that week.

I missed a short putt on the last hold to force a playoff. And that ended up getting me my tour paired. And then I showed it down for six months after that to see on my back. And so how, okay, so after this, you know, you're shutting it back down for a while. Are you seeing progress though, with all the downtime away from the game, I'm sure you're doing tons of rehab. What does the rehab look like and what is the actual progress because this is not the last time that this would, you don't know this at the time, but you're a long ways from getting past this.

That's right. So I worked with a PT in LA, he's become a good friend of mine, his name's John Meyer, and we worked all the time, like, I think three, four days a week at that time doing physical therapy to get back to playing. And I was seeing progress, basically every couple of weeks, my good progress. I felt stronger and better and my back felt better. And the first time around, it was actually pretty straightforward to what the doctor said. Rest in rehab and somewhere between six weeks and a year. And the rehabs as fast as you can go without making your symptoms in your back worse.

And I started to feel better. And after about six months, I felt pretty darn good. I didn't really have any pain in my back when I practiced. And I felt like I was actually hitting a little farther. And everything was going really well. I started to play I think my first event back at this point I had my tour card but I was on a medical and hadn't played any events and I came back at I think Byron Nelson in middle of May and felt good. I was really excited to kind of like start out on chair as a wiki and my

back felt good and everything. I played by Rene Aston. We had a couple weeks off. I don't think I was like into any of those events. And then I came back and played some events in the summer and you know got my legs under me and made a couple cuts and then I went to join deer to play and my back was I like woke up on Tuesday that week and my back was just out of nowhere pain pain was back like something was out of whack and the pain was back or part of the pain was back and I warmed up to play on Thursday of join deerere and the pain was not good and I couldn't play. And I withdrew and then that kind of, that was really, that's kind of like a really bad cycle where I really wanted to play and I would feel good for, you know, I'd feel good leading up into the tournament, but if I started to play too often,

it would just slowly get worse and get to the point where I couldn't play. And then I had that time where I'd try and play an event, and then I would not be able to play event for a couple months and then I'd try and play again. And that was really hard, and I was just trying to, I was trying to manage the pain and do as best I could, but occasionally there were just days where my back was in so much pain that I just couldn't swim at all. Do you, is it still a fracture at this point that's driving you,

that's causing all these issues or has it evolved into other issues? And I mean, what are you, I guess, to also do you regret anything that happened during this time period, right? I mean, I can hear in your voice how anxious you are and hunger you are to get back out in the golf course, but was that holding you back at all?

I mean, it seems like you're doing everything you can from a PT standpoint, but were you coming back too soon is that what was driving? And then this next layoff is what ends up being the big one. Well, I still don't think I was careless. I think I know if Dan backs the back there and the back there said, listen, your stress records healed on the skin. And I think what your body does after a stress,

that lays down, it doesn't necessarily totally prepare the bone. From what I was told, it lays down kind of like a gelatinous material where the stress fracture was, so you don't re-break that area. But I was still putting lots of stress on that area and it was painful. And I don't know if it was, that something was still wrong and I needed to rest it for longer time

or I had such a, the way that your body gets input for pain is related to like pain memory almost. Like you can sometimes associate a certain action to being painful. And so I don't know if that was also playing a certain component involved where my body just would almost like protect me from re-injuring

by getting a pain response when I would hit golf bars, even if they were structurally, even if the problem structurally was fixed, I was still experiencing lots of pain. And I don't think anybody on my team or any of the people that I saw at the time can really identify exactly what was giving me pain. I just know that when I went to go hit golf bars, I was occasionally would be under so much pain I couldn't swing. And it ended up being a long layoff, basically, basically like close to a year of no golf,

no padding, no hitting bars, no chipping, and just physical therapy that eventually got me to a place where I could come back and play. Well, what's that time like? Because I know you're away from PGA Tour professional golf or all of 2015 and all of 2016. And as you just said there, you're going a year without touching a club. So what's that time period like? In this time period, some of your peers are winning on the PGA Tour.

And I just can't imagine how like how hard that was to go through both from a pain perspective and just somewhat of an antsy perspective. So what did you do to pass the time and what was that like? Yeah, it was a time when JT and Jordan especially, especially Jordan was planning on having really really really high level golf and winning lots of tournaments and so growing up with those guys playing junior golf and winning lots of tournaments. And so growing up with those guys playing junior golf and college golf with them and feeling like I turned pro before them and theoretically should be ahead of them. You know, that was difficult to watch, but at the same time really

inspiring because you know, these are guys that I know I can compete with and they're out there winning a lot. So that was like, you know, if I can get back to playing, you know, I'll be in a good spot These are guys that I know really well and I know how good they are, but I can play with them So it was kind of you know, it was good and bad seeing that But I mean there's there's so much downtime. I did physical therapy every day and I read a lot, probably way too much TV. And there's just not a lot to do.

I tried to stay busy, but my head was, always looking towards, always looking towards the future. When am I gonna to get back? How is my back feel? When am I doing the right thing for my back? Do you think I'm ready to go? How long should I take off? What should I do when I get back to scurry of hitballs?

When I come back to hitballs, a couple days a week, I went up to Virginia Country Club and I had watched John Manger hit balls with Jamie and then I played cards with some of the members there in the evening. And those were like the most exciting days during that year off because I wasn't doing a lot of them and my mind was just waiting for the future to happen. Well, take us to what's the age demographic of the guys you're playing cards with and what's your game of choice? For some fun stories about that.

Yeah, we played generally a couple of days a week like on Wednesdays and Fridays. And there's some guys in their Wednesdays and Fridays. And you know, there's, there's some guys, you know, in their therries and forties and then there's guys in their 70s and 80s. And they, you know, it's a wide range and a bunch of really good guys and we guys to this day that, you know, I talked to a lot, I talked to weekly and as some of my best things. Do you feel, skipping ahead, do you feel like you're all the way back?

Like, do you feel you are currently like the best golfer you've been or do you feel like anything was lost in this whole injury and time period? You've won twice on the PGA tour since you've come back, but I'm just curious as to where, where you feel like you currently stand versus how you felt before you got injured? Sure. I think there's a last time component as far as there's basically three years there where

I was in the prime age to play golf and play on tier and I think obviously my path or my Obviously, my path or my who I am as a person is different. Having gone through that, then it would have been if I didn't go through that and I had just been playing on tour all those years. But if there were any negatives that happened for me, there's a bunch of positives as well. And I feel like I'm very grateful for being able to play out on tour and I've done a lot of hard work to get back out playing on tour so I appreciate it a lot. I think anytime anybody is able to overcome something that was really difficult, they're better for it and they can take some of those experiences from those trials and tribulations and really have that helped

them whenever other bad things or difficult times come ahead and have gone through some tough times, but for sure it won't be the last time and I'll be able to reflect back and kind of pull from those experiences and hopefully it helps me down the road. I'm sure this is a topic that, you know, you've been asked about a lot, but also during this time period, you mentioned your friend Chris Roth, who was your caddy.

What, this was in 2016, can you, he died tragically and you were there for it? Is that kind of more, you're referring to as well when you say some of the things that you've been through? I mean, in looking at all this, sounds like you, if somebody didn't know who you were, it'd be like, all right, this guy's gotta be like 45 with all the things you've been through. I mean, in looking at all of this, it sounds like if somebody didn't know who you were, it'd be like, all right, this guy's got to be like 45 with all the things he's been through.

You're 28 years old and you went through an awful lot in a short period of time. I thought your perspective on it in the first person golf digest article you wrote was extremely interesting. And I'm wondering if you could touch on some of that. Sure. Well, Kim had a really, when I went to sound

over the surface, you're going to come in a really bad time Sure, well it came out of really, I don't want to sound overly selfish, but it came in a really bad time as well. I had just been told by a doctor you got to take a year off. This was like in January and then unfortunately the accident happened in February. And so I was already extremely low and this just blew whatever lows I was feeling completely out of the water and I was at a different low that I didn't even know really existed. That really made one of the darkest times in my life even darker and I just I really it felt like it felt

like I didn't it felt like everything was totally worthless in meaningless because it was just such a tragic point in my life where it felt like everything was a complete nightmare, almost to the point where it isn't real. And so it was hard to experience that and accept it and then try and grow from it or try and like build yourself out of it. And ultimately it just took time, not only from my back, but also to kind of accept and get to a place where Chris's death doesn't actively disrupt my daily life and my ability to connect with other people. I'm always going to carry it with me and it's always going to be a defining moment in my life.

And that is how it should be. He was a defining character, defining friend in my life. And he meant a lot to me. It was really hard. And I'm still learning lessons from it. I'm still dealing with it, I think, but as time goes on, it becomes time is the greatest thrill.

It just, it becomes less and less of a disruptor in my life. And so, you know, it's been, it's been difficult, but it definitely has made me who I am today. Well, that is more than enough time on a very difficult time period in your life because it does end up changing for you here in the fall of 17. So you come back very quickly in 17 and you are under a decent amount of pressure to get your car just because there's a lot of uncertainty. Well, let me just ask that. Was there uncertainty in kind of what the status of your game

when you come back in 17 having been away for so long? You've got how many starts to get your card based on your medical? You take care of it rather quickly, but how confident were you that that would happen? Well, I'd say the practical side of my brain knew that I was good enough to still play out until I took a while to come back. And I was playing some rounds at home, pin-free or pretty close to pin-free and played really well. I just shot some low rounds over Junior and some low rounds at Street E Canyon in Irvine. And so I knew practically that my game was still really good. But there is that little tiny voice, you know, when you get out there on Thursday, I came back at

Pelabitch. You know, there's a little tiny voice on Thursday that says, you know, how are you going to shoot 80? You haven't played a tournament in three years. You know, it's very small, but it's definitely better. And fortunately,. Fortunately, I got off to a good start. I like buried the first hole and played pretty good that day. After that day, I just never bit back in that voice. I went away pretty quickly and I was able to play well and the fact that I started my grand, one day I was able to play well and the best to start my grand kind of won the day and I was able to play

well and played really well that first year back despite having not played any tournament after three or so years. And just for people to set the scene here for as well, the back injury, we've talked in great, great detail about that, but it's not over. So take us through what you go through on a week to week basis still to this day on the PGA tour to prepare your body for a day of practice and actual round. What time you got to get to the course? How are there your tea time category? You know, how all that works together? So take us there. When I first came back, I should say, when I before that hood, I would just

kind of feel so that first back now for my time. And I just straight to the range and just warm up a little bit and play since having the back injury. I realize how important it is to be to get your body warm back and get your body ready to play and ready for activity every day, even if that's practice. So every day I go through at least a warm up in the gym before and that's probably at least a couple hours before. And then for tournament days, I get there three hours before and start to work with my physical therapist three hours before and then I go over to the gym. You know, I find that actually it's a give-the-team to get my body in mind ready to go. So by the time I'm on the first tee,

I'm totally ready. And there's no like lag time. There's no like, well, I'm just getting the day started and I'll be ready on the third or fourth hole. I'm totally there in present on the first tee, even if it's a seven o'clock two time because I've been starting my morning routine three hours before, so four o'clock that morning and for the most part it doesn't

matter if I two F at seven. If I two F at seven I probably will start you know I try to train magic closer to two and a half but I'm still you know getting started well before and well before my two-ton for the day. God I had no idea that's just just, do you, are you alone there when you're there that early and when you have one of the earlier tea times, is there anybody else that beats you there? You know, there's plenty of days

when the first one of the course or the night before I got asked the locker room attendant to make sure the locker room's open at, you know, the four or five attacks so we can get our work started. Godly. Well, godly. Well, I don't want to get too far into this, and there's a lot from Melbourne I want to ask you about.

So if we can completely change topics here, but just your first team event professionally for the US team, which is kind of seem shocking, take us to Royal Melbourne. I mean, how real just to start off the week, how crazy was it flying from the Bahamas? I should have done this research. I assume you were on the team playing that all went down together. Take

us to what that travel time was like, what the jet lag is like and just how you kicked off the week. Yes, so we actually think I on that, that cataflight, and it was basically a full 24 hours a year, um, to this long time to get there. I don't know if it was quite that long, I can't remember exactly, but it was close to that. And, uh, it was, by far the longest flight I'd ever taken and I think there was a lot of talk about it, but it was a huge factor for the week as far as I know I was extremely tired all week. And it was probably one of the most tired weeks I've ever had. And, you know, I didn't really know the golf course. I definitely didn't know the golf course as well as I would have wanted to before the week started simply from a, you know, not having played the golf course enough because we got there in Monday, but we didn't have enough time to play the golf on Monday. The week was,

the week was, I was really excited for the week, you know, you grow up thinking about what it would be like to play on some of these team events. It's just an exciting week. It's so much different than what we do all the other weeks because you're playing manually for yourself, but for your country, and you're playing for your captain, and you're playing for the rest of your teammates. So there's a different type of importance that you feel throughout the week like you're a part of something bigger than yourself. And because we do it so very little and guess,

it's very exciting. And all those components that I just listed together can feel the need to play well. I swear it feels like I've watched you and Zander as teammates in Ryder cups and Presidents cups for the last five years. I have no idea if you guys were close going into it but it just felt like it was the easiest pairing to put together can you tell us about what your guys

relationship is like how you guys end up being partners and how that partnership worked out yeah so we met for the first time in college when I was UCLA and he was I think it was still when he was at L Laundry's stake. We played a couple times in some tournaments together. And he's just a great dude. I think anybody that sees him from afar and definitely gets to know him in person, he's one of the best guys out there. He's extremely genuine. He's very, very intelligent.

And he's a great player. So being able to play my matches with him was awesome. We played a packed thing together and we got along really well and with things going in but I definitely much better friends now after having gotten through that. And we played really well together and I think I definitely enjoyed my time very much competing with him on the golf course and having him on my team. What's it like adjusting to playing alternate shot? How much, when was the last time you played alternate shot and kind of, how does that affect rhythm wise?

And what's something that, you know, viewers at home maybe don't appreciate about the challenges that come with that format. Ultimate shout is just again, it's so different than what we do. Not only is it match play, but now you're not even hitting all the shots. And I think something that's really important when you're playing with a partner is, you have it in your head kind of that, oh, if I put my guy in a bad position, You have it in your head kind of that, oh, if I put my guy in a bad position, he's going to be pissed at me. Or like, it's even worse that I put him in that bad position because now I'm not the person to get, get us out of it.

He has to get out of it. And so putting that aside and realizing that both of you are going to hit bad shots and kind of not having to deal with that extra part of it is huge. Fortunately, we're good friends and I think we respect each other and I think we both know that's going to happen and it's not a big deal and we're able to go out and just focus on the task at hand. The challenges of the tea events are not just the different formats but like I said like there are so many things going on that week,

and the pressure was so intense that, yeah, I was so tired, and everybody else was also tired, and just drained physically and mentally. We played basketball on Thursday, we played alternate shot on Friday, and we were down big time, and we were fortunate enough, Sandra and I had a win,

I matched in the afternoon on Friday, and that kind of gave us a little momentum. And then JT rolled in that path after I made one on 18. And so now we feel like we're back in a little bit. And then it's really cold and windy of rainy on Saturday morning, and we got a 36 holes and were exhausted, at least I time exhausted. Now it's cold and we're playing our best ball match, we're not getting beat in the morning.

I'm so fried, bummed and upset from losing in the morning and knowing that I'm going back out in the afternoon. And so, like the story is basically, at least for my perspective, you know, Tiger and Rob, his manager, his assistant captain, another assistant captain that need, pick me up after he leaves our best spot in the morning. And I'm like, talking with the guys, I'm like, so I'm being zander going on the afternoon, because yeah, you guys are going out again. I'm like, talking with the guys, I'm like, so beans are going on the afternoon, because yeah, you guys are going on again.

I'm like, okay, great. And he goes, I go, so who else is going on in play? And he lists the rest of the teams that are going on. I go, what are you talking about? Why aren't you playing, you know? I'm thinking, if you're the one, I'm tired of it, was playing the best of anybody on the team and so we're down still It's going in the Saturday after being the fourth session and I'm thinking Tiger for sure is gonna play

And he goes no, no, I'm not playing. I can't go today I'm like what are you talking about? How can you not go? You know like we need you if we need anybody out there We need the guy that's playing the best is like not going. I'm like I'm like, all right, well, we're going to go, you know, get a point for us. Xander and I, and I told Rob, I got Rob, I'm exhausted. I'm going to go try and take a nap on the couch, rest my eyes for about 20 minutes, and then I go and get ready to play. But I need a favor for me. I need you to deliver me like some coffee on the tenth fee box because otherwise I just won't make it and like I had never drink any type of caffeine or anything like that on the bus before

but I kind of got ready to go Got into a dead mental space and then we're walking down like the second hole and I tell Zander They do like I'm right here with you and I'm going to be entirely focused as lacked in as I pass weekend but I may not talk or I may not be super cheery but that doesn't mean I'm like abandoning you, I'm totally here with you, I just need to conserve my energy and we ended up being way down early in that naturally. I think we were like three down, did a first four or five holes, and then we were able to come back and play really, really, really good.

The last, you know, 15 holes or 13 holes, and that coffee on the 10th tee box, you know, carried me through all the way to the end. Unfortunately, we got a point. And, you know, it's very eerie that night, at least what I felt like we were down, that felt like we were in the driver's seat. And if we just went out there and took care of business as usual, the next day we'd get out and win the presents kept on Sunday. What's it like playing for, and I know you don't have a professional team event to compare it against,

but your first team that you get Tiger Woods as your captain, what's it like playing for Tiger, and what's your, like go to or favorite Tiger story, I guess, from that week? First of all, he was great as a captain, and he had, even when we were down and losing early, he had a sense of calmness about him that, that's right, we're just going to go to work every day and things will take care of themselves. There was no panic and there was no added stress from him as far as, hey guys, we need to go in or we need to do something different. And so that was really impressive how he went about it that way. That was really impressive how he went about it that way and

Instra the level of confidence and calmness in the rest of us and just hanging out with him being able to play for one of the greats of Of all time, you know was a cool experience and Getting to know him a little bit on a personal level and hearing the way he would go about the golf course or the mental approach and team meetings and stuff was amazing. And definitely, I'd say my favorite part was, like I said when I asked him if he was going in the afternoon, he was like, no, I'm not ready on Saturday afternoon. You know, my body can't go. He went to him, not being able to play on Saturday, can't go. He went to him, not being able to play on Saturday, but on Sunday morning when he was going out first, he was focused like nobody I'd ever seen a couple hours before his match. He warmed up in the gym beforehand and he was like a different person. He looked

like the terminator. He was just going to go and win his match no matter what happened and seeing that, that question, personal and having invested interest in it was awesome. Well what was your reaction when you saw seeing a course like Royal Melbourne? Do you see anything else similar to that in professional golf and how do you see how that course suits your playing style? Well I love it. I thought it was, I think technically one of the best golf courses I'd ever played or seen is very challenging and fun for us as

praise. And yet I could see a 10 handicap going there and loving a lot of the T shots off the T or down hill. There's a lot of short holes, which for media are almost drivable, but for them would be driver wedge even from the back tees and there's a mix of all different types of holes right to left holes, left to right holes up and down and it feels like a really firm, a best and actionable and it was just it was one of the best golf courses I've ever played and I enjoyed it and

loved it from the minute I got there and actually got to love it more as I learned the golf course throughout the week. Well speaking of Augusta National the 2019 Masters will of of course be forever remembered for Tigers win, but it was almost, I take a replay of watching it to really remember it, but it was almost the Patrick Cantler story. So what the hell changed between Friday and Saturday for you? You make the cut. The cup was plus three. You made it.

You shot two over the first two rounds and you make Eagle on 15 on Sunday to take the lead at the Masters. But the hell happened in between Friday and Saturday? Yeah. I think a little mind-fetched switch and then also just hitting some better shots and building on that confidence. A guess is a place where I feel like good shots are heavily rewarded. You can hit a lot close and you can even birdie some of the most difficult holes out there.

If you really hit great shots. But if you get a little off or you hit some untimely bad shots or average shots, the mistake is really compound, especially if you start leaving yourself above the hole or in the wrong spot where you can't get up and down. They're literally some impossible up and downs and unless you make a 30 or 40 footer. And so I didn't do a good job at all on Thursday or Friday of managing my golf bar and Distinguishing between the this is a green light hole or this is a full red light. You need to make sure you leave it on this side of the hole regardless and I paid the price and then on Thursday and Friday or on Saturday and Sunday I hit the ball extremely well and was able to capitalize on

extremely well and was able to capitalize on all the holes that I should or most of the holes that I should and even birdies some of the more difficult holes like 11. I think I buried on both Saturday and Sunday, which is like gaining a shine half just in one hole. And it's kind of a product of Augusta. You can get on a road there where it feels easy and play to pay for really well and make a bunch of birdies. And it can also, if you get the wrong wind or you hit a bad sharp in the wrong spot, it can feel like one of the hardest best courses in the world. Did it just so it's an amazing separator of talent and you said it right

there. Like you you don't have to play that much better between Saturday and Friday to shoot way way better score, right? Is that sound somewhat right at least? Yeah, I think that's totally right. I think unlike other tough courses, the scoring differences in some of the holes between, like if you strike it on some of the holes, even the hardest holes now become relatively birdy able holes. Like there's almost a golf hole out there where you go, oh this hole is impossible. But on the flip side, there's some really easy holes or in your head they seem like easy

holes that can be totally butchered in a second. And so like you could get a day where you butcher a couple of easy holes, and all of a sudden the course feels impossible. And you're trying to take advantage of a difficult hole, and then you make a mistake there, and now you're shooting, you know, definitely over a path. And so, it just, there's such a contrast between the hard holes and the easy holes, and you've got to do a good job

of taking what the golf course gives you every day. Yeah, I think that the third hole was about the best example of that. Like if you just look at everyone's scores, you'd be like, yeah, that makes sense that he, that he birdied number three. And it also, yeah, I mean, that makes sense that you would bogey number three

because you can be wrong. If you're two yards off your number, to like that left pin, you're probably making five. But you, if you hit that number, exactly, you're probably making five but if you hit that number exactly you're probably making three the line between birdie and bogey at Augusta seems to be drawn very closely. Yeah and changes when they change the hole up. Yep. So like if they put that pin back right on three all of a sudden it's a full green light you're not worried about making bogey to the back right hole location.

Because now all of a sudden most of your pets are going to be relatively flatish. But you can make a bogey just by hitting a bad t-shop to that front left. And if you even make a good bogey, you didn't make a bogey where you have to get up and down to that front left hole location. Because it's so inaccessible from so many different areas, especially if you're not in the middle of the fairway about a, you know, anywhere, some 100, to 130 out of a... So, when did it, did it enter your mind

that you could potentially win the Master's at what point? Was it before Sunday? Was it at some point during the round Sunday? When was that? Yeah, I think on Sunday, playing well in the front line, I realized I would have a chance, but I still realized that I needed to make a lot of buddies. And I even felt like that, I even felt like that after 15 a little bit, I realized that like my work wasn't done because all those guys are behind me and they have the birdie holes to be

played. So I still realized I needed to probably play the last three holes and one under to have a chance. I can't remember if Tiger was it. I think you finished maybe at 13 or 14. He boggyed 18 to finish 13. Yeah. Right. So I still would have, you you know needed at least one or two Maybe makes par to find make Needs to make a par of 18 so I knew my work wasn't done But I definitely realized that if I could those last three holes I'd have a decent chance and That was a sad different feeling than how I felt on Saturday evening All right, well, I've got a couple fun grab bag

ones here to ask you before we let you go. A colleague, a peer of yours, if you will, wanted me to ask. At last year's BMW, there was someone in particular that made a birdie putt, you guys are paired together. Makes a birdie putt in the camera, cuts to you, saying what appears to be some kind of expletif. Can you, do you guys ever talk about that?

Can you take us to what the, and do you know what I'm referencing? Can't think of it. It's exactly. You and JT are going head to head or he's, you know, you're kind of trying to chase him down. He drains a birdie putt and it cuts to you and it just, there is a lot of that, that, by the way.

So like picking out one particular moment wasn't exactly, isn't exactly easier. But I'm sure something like this could have happened. Well, it's, the camera cuts to you and it looks like, it just kind of looks like you just muttered to yourself, like, fucking hey, man, this guy, which I love that. I thought that was just like, you know, at times,

I know you guys are buddies, but at times it's like, you know, like a lot of high five and in fist bumping out there and stuff, but it's kind of like, I like enjoyed seeing you guys are buddies, but at times it's like, you know, like a lot of high five and in fist bumping out there and stuff, but it's kind of like, I like enjoyed seeing you guys just getting into like competing against each other. And I was curious if you guys said that, he had mentioned that to me that maybe you guys had talked about that or referenced that,

but it doesn't sound like it's top of mind for you. Yeah, I mean, he was in conscious that I played really well and I tried to go as much of a fight as I could on Sunday. And I played well on Sunday. I feel like I played well every day. But he played better and he played absolutely incredible that week. And I tried to get it. I tried to get myself as much of a chance as I could, but I just couldn't keep up.

I couldn't make enough burpees. But there, you know, JT's great platter, and a really good friend of mine. And so, it is though, when you're competing like that, him being your friend means basically nothing. You're just out there trying to win. And, you know, he can be your friend next week when he's gonna be in your back up. And one thing that happened, I think it was this year, I'm kind of a lot, this

quarantine is kind of maybe loose track of what time was, but you're on the 18th, I think the 18th tea at Capelua, and you had some audio that got caught by the microphones right there. What was the react, what, can you take us to what, what you were referencing, what was being said and what the reaction was like to that? Yeah, it was not 17. We were in the tee box for a long time and it had been raining. And we were kind of like in a hood and no one was around. And I don't even think like I had my ball tee up at the time and they were talking about how the rain that we were having, this was John Rom in his caddy, was similar to how it was in the British open on Sunday. And the British open on Sunday last year, of course, it was pouring. I had already

finished my ranks. I was near the back, the backs out of the field, like 40 or 50th, but the leaders played in serious, serious ring. And it was similar to that, just a full on downpour. And so they were saying how it was during one of the times when it was, you know, really pouring, one of the rules officials came up to them and said, like, hey guys, like, you guys need to keep playing. Like, you can't hold for this. It's just some rain.

And I was kind of, I was like adding to his story as he was telling me. Like, yeah, that was official. It's probably been waiting his whole life to like tell some of these spoiled brat tour pros to like hurry up and play. And that was his moment, like in the British open on Sunday. And he was gonna be like, punt to get up in your ear and be like hey guys get going and

so I had no idea that you know that was going to be obviously on camera or on camera and and mic'd up but that's my fault like I got to be better about that but yeah I mean it made for a funny moment. And then after all that rain and waiting there forever and it gave a long day, Kapalua feels like a walk that's entirely uphill. And you know, with all the rain and the winds, I was just, you know, I was kind of making a joke to my charity before I hit my t-shirt. Like, man, we got to go get a drink after this. Like, we need a, you're going to need a monotye after carrying this bag up this mountain all day. And the 17th hole got far right. So you know, 70 yards wide. So it's not like, you know, hitting two shots at

Hilton head, you feel like you're just up there swinging as hard as you can to try and get that as far down there as possible. So that's, that's kind of the, the slow isn't the, the best part of the bit about the my tie too is that you don't even drink is that did I hear that right? I don't really drink during turning it so my caddy I told him you know we got two more holes and we can get a my tie Ravi and he said I'll have a my tie you can have a way So And that's just the relationship we have he's a great dude great stuff And he's been on my bag since I came back

so the last like three years. Sweet. All right, Patrick, we're going to let you go, man. I really appreciate you taking our plus with us, taking us through your career and everything. I think a lot of people watch you on TV and maybe don't know the full story. And I feel like I learned a ton just like getting ready

for this as well. I really appreciate the time and best of luck with the quarantine and with the remainder of the season. Thanks, thanks for having me, AJ. Yeah. Yeah. It's getting right club. Be the right club today.

Yes. Yeah. That's better than most. How about it? That is better than most. Better than most. How about in? That is better than most. Better than most.