No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 307: Overappreciated Players

Episode Date: April 29, 2020

This one is going to be a bit more controversial. Who has gotten more love for resumes that might be a little light? We have a lot of different definitions of "overappreciated", and we fleshed these out over and hour and half, and narrowed it down to five overappreciated guys in golf history. You're not going to like some of the names thrown out.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yes! That is better than most. I'm not in. That is better than most. Better than most. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No Laying Up podcast. We are following up on Sunday's episode, which was what we classified as underappreciated players. It only felt right to follow that up with perhaps overappreciated players, more, probably more

controversial, if I may say. I'm excited to see what you guys have. I know Randy's excited. Take a lot to get Randy excited. He's excited. We're gonna make some out of these today. Randy's here, Neil is here. It was just difficult.

It's hard. Who to flame. But also much harder than I thought it would be. Yes. TC is here. That's his voice you just heard there. And DJ Pies here as well. Good morning, fellas.

How are you? Before we do get rolling here, we had a piece of video content that we're still going to re-releasing, but got a little COVID kind of through a little curveball at us. And I want TC to kind of take us there. We're going to talk about the Callaway Maverick Driver, of course. But what were we working on still working on? And how would you get to just take us there?

We're going to get everybody fit. There's three heads on the new Maverick driver, got the regular Maverick, the sub-zero for higher speed players such as myself, and then the max for those who need a little bit of help, keeping the right miss inside the bounce. You're locking eyes with me, like a dog taking a dump, just looking right at its own reach.

We've already fit DJ in the Maverick max. And I'm thrilled with it. Yeah. So, Ollie, you actually switched from the sub-zero in your Epic Flash to the regular. I'm a regular. I've hit no little higher, a little bit, getting a little bit more launch on it,

which I think I found a little something with the driver in the last couple of weeks. So, I'm really, I'm honestly never driven a bit better than I have last couple of weeks. And yeah, I think that's been something that I've noticed is the Maverick Sub-Zero is even more low spin than the Epic Flash Sub-Zero by a wide margin.

Speaking of low spin players. T.C. calling me the low spin player on Earth. I'm in the regular Maverick. I was a little worried in my old Epic Flash. They have the weight, the adjustable weight in the, or that be the heel or along the toe of the club. No, I mean, the back of the club.

The back of the club, yeah. Which I had set that to help promote and encourage that club face to turn over because I'm coming in so shallow and open. So I was a little apprehensive with the Maverick. They don't have that, but I gotta say, hit the Maverick. I think better than I did the Epic Flash. I love it. You're driving the shit out of the ball.

Thank you. I'm coming from you. Well, what a compliment. Well, yeah, so the regular and the max are both a little bit of draw bias. The sub-zero is pretty straight on. Neil, what are you playing right now? We don't have to talk about it. Neil's actually playing my driver.

Now I have a sub-zero. It's up in the big city, so I've been playing... It's a sub-zero. So I think we're playing the same thing. I usually tweak it down to eight degrees aloft because I tend to hit the ball pretty high. So yours is on nine degrees. Pretty standard. Nine degrees. X-thiff. 75 gram shaft. And I've been the ball pretty high. So yours is on nine degrees, pretty standard. Nine degrees, X, stiff, 75 gram shaft. And I've been hitting it pretty good. I still lose one or two every round, but I think we're working through some stuff off the tee.

I'm hitting it really far. Yeah, well, we've seen that. It's because you're bronny. Yeah, bro. You may have forgotten, because it feels like a long time since professional golf was happening, but it was having a successful start of the year Zander almost repeated with it

Repeat win and Hawaii leash minute sacks from one with it in January and of course the the chip drive and put Win here at Jack's Beach by yours truly That's actually in the copy. I didn't just bring that in and one the driver can at the draft If orange isn't your thing you can can go to Cowboy Customs, design your own scheme. And so yeah, we're in love in the Maverick when we do get out the play. And yeah, we're excited to get in the actual fitting.

I think we kind of fit ourselves a little bit, but I want to see TTC actually getting a lab there. Randy's actually wondering, he thought he got a custom with the orange. But no, that's just the way it goes. I know. It was like, that's what I would have requested. Yeah. Wanted to have made a reality.

Speaking of overappreciated players, all right, does anyone kind of want to introduce what, how they defined overappreciated? Is it different for every guy? Yeah, I put a lot of thought into that. I would say, I don't think it's overrated. You know, you went golf tournaments. It's hard to call someone overrated.

I think over appreciated some of its off-the-course stuff that has led to or labels that they've developed throughout their career that maybe gets them more face time or more air time or they come up in conversation more because they are the considered the best at this. But then you're like, well, but are they that good compared to their peers or are they just excelling one thing?

So that's where I was going with it a little bit, and I'll turn it over to somebody else to define their definition. I think overrated is a component, but it's not the only component. Yeah, I lean similar to the last episode we did. I lean much more on overappreciated, I think, over guys who are maybe celebrated a little bit more than maybe their output dictate.

A common theme is big personalities. I think. Yeah, what I came across. Yeah, that I came across was like, oh yeah, he's that guy. I did struggle with it though. I think I was talking to Neil. Wait a minute, I thought. Yesterday, I think it's, there's so few like stars,

superstars in golf that it's hard enough to be like, basically what I'm getting at is most of the people who are very famous for golf, like are very good. Yeah. You know, there's just not that. You suck. There's not that many. I was just thinking about going and like talking to,

you know, just a very casual golf fan, I mean, like, hey, do you know who this person is? No. All right, well, it's kind of hard for me to say, like they're over appreciated then. But, you know what I mean? Did, hey, do you know who this person is? No. All right, well, it's kind of hard for me to say like they're overappreciated then. But, you know what I mean? Did you struggle with that? I completely agree.

I think there's another factor. I don't want to spoil it yet. Related to personality that I think gets people more buzz than maybe they do. But it's relevant to the person, like, if you're looking at it that way, it's overappreci appreciated golf game due to maybe not under appreciated personality,

but like a wealth of personality, because there's not enough of that in the game, so they get credit, as they're like saying they're like, oh, they're awesome, but it's like, well, maybe they're golf game if they didn't have the personality. Exactly.

That's what we're talking about. Well, why don't we kick off the big grand start? Are we gonna whittle it down as we've been doing? I think we do the same for that. We're gonna find the final five. Obviously T is gonna drop in about 35 options. Probably, probably pee on a bunch of names. Yeah, let's see what happens.

Save your drop-ins till the very end. So you're not peeing on a bunch of different people. I don't like it. So I'm gonna turn it to big range to start us off. To run through the format though, as you brought up, each of us have three. Is that correct? Yes.

We'll get it to 15 and then we'll whittle it down to our five most over appreciated guys. Okay. You know what, I actually have four because I paired. I have three selections, but one of them is a paired selection. Randy, I've done something similar, but... Okay. And I might as well, I'm free to...

How big of a... A bitch will line stuff up. A tasting menu? I have a paired selection for you all. I know it's three, but I actually have nine that I'll be walking through as well, I'll, I'm free to have it again. A bitch will line stuff. A tasting menu. I have a paired selection for you all. I know it's three, but I actually have nine that I'll be walking through as well. We're gonna start, I'll start with my paired selection. A couple of South Africans.

Get a player. No, I think one of them is on my list so we can tag team list if you want. One of them is Louie Ustazin and the other is Charles Schwarzel. Can you make guess right now what Charles Schwarzel's OWGR is? 220. No, he's like 141.

I think he's way higher than that. I think he's in the top 50. Neil, really? Are you abstaining? I'm abstaining. Props of TC is ranked 205 in the world right now. Wow. Really. I was for a bit. Well, Louis was on my list, not Charles. I did no Charles. Sure. Sure. Well, let me make the case real quickly.

My whole thesis is the results do not match the talent. Charles, we know won the Masters in 2011. He birdied the last four holes, complete sweepstakes of a Masters. That was the year that Rory decided to crown everybody. So since that master's win, Charles has four top tens in majors compared to 10 miscuts. The two of them, and I'm bringing in Louis now, the two of them have combined for three PGA tour wins. Oh my God. The only non major was Schwartzful's 2016 Valsbar, which he defeated Bill Haas in a playoff. This is where I make the case

for overrated. So they're combined career earnings on the PJ tour are approaching 40 million. Louis just shive 21 million Schw sales at about 17.5. And then you factor in the Euro Tour as well where they've earned a combined 35 million Euros. And that's with, they've combined the two of them have one six Euro events, non-majors. So just, you're not double counting exactly. It's only six Euro tour events outside the continent of Africa Louis one four Charles one two both in Spain and I was thinking you know

Everybody looks at Ustaz and swing right it might be the best like him and Scott are always among the top two, three, four swings on tour. I think maybe this was my own fault. I thought Schwarzel very much, Ballyhoo, amateur career, seemed to be the next big thing, huge breakthrough at the Masters. And then it's like, guys really since 2015,

like over the last five, they just don't win. They don't do anything. But they keep making a lot of money. So I guess, you know, that's nice. That was a jump in brief. Yeah, please. So that's the thrust of my case. No, that was exactly where my head was at as well.

I had Louis on my list. I did not go after Schwarzel. I kept it to one accusation case here. So how about this Randy takes Schwarzel you take Louie. And I actually started with Schwarzel. And then as I was gone like, how was he at Louie's like, he had an even one another PJ tour event. Let me let me let me let me sit. That happened to me. One guy led me to the next guy yeah, about four times. So I was like, Oh, I think he's already, but actually, he's already. The main sentence I would like to, I would like the jury to take away here is,

Lucio Stason has never won in the United States straight up. And he's a guy that where I was really coming at, and this has been burning for a while, and I love Lucio. I love watching him play golf. I desperately, I think a big part of this is I desperately wish that he did win more because I love watching him play golf. I desperately, I think a big part of this is I desperately wish that he did win more because I love watching him. But there was a good period of time

where he was just like everybody's pick for all these majors like three, four years ago, five years ago where it was like, oh, Louis, he's gonna be the guy. Oh, he's for sure gonna win this week. And of course he had a lot of like some close calls. Dude does not win. Period.

Like hasn't one of the United States. That's 175 starts on the PJ tour. Like they don't really win outside of Africa was the big takeaway. I exactly had 175 starts on the PJ tour. No wins in America. 299 starts on the European tour. And I will give nine wins on the on the European tour for Louis. He finishes in the top 10 25% of the time on the European tour.

And it doesn't win outside Africa. We'd be remiss if we didn't mention he lost in a playoff at the Masters as well. He was like extremely close to Louis. And he's finished runner-up at all four meters. Yes, and it's... Some close to the others, but like losing in a playoff.

Is it Chorzo or Louis that just wants to ride the tractor? Louis. Louis, I think that's underappreciated. That's. Louis, I think that's underappreciated. That's specific. Somebody is at the, one of the best in the world of what they do and all he wants to do is, is, you know, he just wants to hang out on the farm.

But I think it's also probably why he doesn't win. He's getting a bunch of like farm subsidies too, you know? We have to look into that. Maybe he's making more of those. Let me throw some fodder to my associates, Oli. The last time Louis was outside the top 15 in the world was June 2014, even despite a lot of injuries, despite, you know, he is hung on his apathy.

Hasn't left the top 15 in the world in what's going on six years with no wins on the PJ Tours show? I think, I honestly think nobody gets less from more than Louis. Certainly, I'm not sure what it seems like. But still a what if guy, which is so what if guy. If anything, that's maybe underappreciated. I was gonna say, a total respect.

So as of now, the prosecution rests on the South Africa, and I don't know if you had anything else to add. Chorzels also, Opus Day. Yes, he is. We witnessed that in person, actually, at the at the range of the players, it was it was a sight. That was one of the most majestic practice sessions I've ever seen. Am I up next? Yeah, yeah, go for it.

I think, you know, I don't want to I don't want to double steal from DJ here, because I think he's got, you know, I believe we're gonna have some overlap on this one. Possibly. Maybe you didn't make your final three. But I think you, I believe you called him the poster child for over a appreciate or over a year. So I took a book out of, a page out of TC's book. I figured everybody would have him on the list

and I opted out. All right, well, I, I, he's the Billy Casper of, of overrated guys. Okay, well, I've got him on my list. He's got 15 tour wins. Either one or five majors, depending where you look. If you look on the World Golf Hall of Fame site, it's five, but according to what actual majors are, it's one.

Great hair. Great hair. You know, ladies want to be with them. Men want to be him. Does he wear a glove? He does not wear a glove. Who does think of it? Oh, oh, oh. Smove.

I mean, a handsome fella. Is he buddies with Jim Nance? He's buddies with Jim Nance. Buddy's with Michael Jordan and the cat. He is Fred Couples. The big disclaimer here is I still think he's a what if guy. The back injuries, I believe, held him back from winning more than 15 times

in one major, but I just want to kind of point out other resumes of guys with 15 wins in one major or around that ballpark. Cory Pave, 15 tour wins in one major is not in the Hall of Fame. Fred Couples is in the Hall of Fame. Can we just, can we go ahead and let's just do the whole detonation? Decinate the Hall of Fame. Nobody cares about the Hall of Fame, but it's bad, but him winning two players, I think is what I got him into the Hall of Fame. Perusing the website last night in research for this, which say what you will about the

Hall of Fame, but it was the place I started. Granted, it was to look for overrated guys, but that was interesting at least. But yeah, you made an illusion too. He either has one or five majors and straight up listed on the whole of the fucking, like Hall of Fame has the players championship listed as a major. It's like, dude, if you want to be, if you're trying to be like the Hall of Records,

like here's what truly matters, integrity of the game, like you can't just make shit up. That's not, that's so stupid. And adding the senior majors in there. Adding the senior majors. Those are not major. And that just screams to me, like, man, I'm sure there's a lot of awesome people

that work on the Hall of Fame and like they're probably putting a bad spot by dumb executives, but like, are you building this for fans? Are you building this for yourselves? And obviously, the obvious answer is you're building it for yourselves. Because no fan.

Maybe that's why nobody fucking shows up. It's because you've built it like this shrine to like brands and like activations and all these like dumb things that don't pass. Breach it. Breach it. And that, God that pissed me off yesterday looking at that. I don't know why that triggered me so much.

You can't just put guys that are in the whole fame't just hold me. Guys that are in the whole fame. I'm trying. Wait, that guy's in the whole thing. Oh, I got one of those too. So in the bus are terrible too. Just wanted to just throw one more. So yeah, Fred couples. I'm going to say over. I hope it exhibit.

Wait, so one major, he won four. He won two players and two senior majors that they count. I didn't know they were count senior. Yeah. See that? Oh yeah. So Jack Nicholas has like 30 majors or something. Yes.

30 professional majors, but then also they don't count his US Am's, which he counts as majors. So stupid. Well, so Corey, I mentioned Corey Pave and 15 tour wins one major. Same resume. He doesn't have the two players wins, but same resumes for a couple of in his not in the Hall of Fame. Marco Mira, 16 wins and two majors. He is in the Hall of Fame, but if I throw out to a casual fan who's like a who's a More appreciated player. It's Fred couples over Marco Mira. I would guess that they would answer how Sutton 14 wins and a major and a players

No Hall of Fame Tom Wisecoff 16 wins one major no Hall of Fame. Tom Wisecoff, 16 wins, one major, no Hall of Fame. Tom Kai does 19 wins in a major and has never talked about the same way that Freddie is. He is in the Hall of Fame, but he has, I would say, a better career in Fred Couples. Do you have Elk's number of wins? I think he has 17 tour wins. 17 tour wins, two players in a major. Yeah. That sounds literally like better than... Is he in the Hall of Fame? I don't think so. No, I would. I didn't, I should. He's the logo, right?

Not yet. But so anyway, the point is, the point is couples is grouped, I can't, is homogeneous in that category of those guys and yet is celebrated, I think, as being a bigger deal in golf than those guys. It's marketable. He's in a lot of ads, listen,

he's, I can't fall in for any of that, but the Ricky comparison was Yeah, I've got no no objection to that. Yeah, he was on my short list I wasn't gonna bring him in the public consciousness are some of those runs he's made at Augusta. Totally. Which we're gonna get to. I think T.C. is gonna get there.

And I have a quick question. I know I just dumped on a very hyper-specific thing that the Hall of Fame seems to be doing, but when you hear Hall of Fame, like do you think it should factor in how famous you are? Yeah, it should matter. It's not the hall of very good. Exactly.

And so that's why I always kind of like, I never totally minded having Monty or, you know, Fred Couples or those guys in there because, I do think it should be a reflection of, you know, who the most famous players are the most like, what are the biggest factors or biggest things you're getting over. You're being over-appreciated.

Absolutely. So, all right, that's my case. Go ahead, Neil. All right, so I have, actually, I'm in near and dear to Tron and Big Randy. He's a K.A. Really? Kappa Alpha Order, a fraternity man.

19 PGA Tour wins, two majors. Oh, I know. Oh, is it fuzzy? No. I was gonna bring it. Puzzy up next. I, I know. Oh, is it Fuzzy? No. But that's, I was gonna, bring it. Fuzzy up next. I was saving them.

I think it's Gentle Bend. T.C. nailed it. Known as the best putter of all time. Gentle Bend Crenshaw. And I think it goes to what I said earlier. I think certain guys get overappreciated for a specific skill. And Crenshaw specifically was a horse

for the course at Augusta, whichshaw specifically was a horse for the course at Augusta, which I also think a good career at Augusta or a win at Augusta, which will go to my fuzzy take is lets you kind of just ride that for literally 20, 30, 40 years until you say something. Keep going on Crenshaw, because I'm gonna detonate those guys.

Okay, and I can help you detonate them. Crenshaw's PGA tour playoff record. What do you think it is? One in six. Oh and eight. Oh, never want to play off. Other than the two masters, he won Colonial twice, which is a, you know, a big boy golf course.

But otherwise, it's kind of a desert. It's derral, and then a bunch of tournaments that, I don't even know if they exist anymore. Let me give you a couple of examples. Well, you got Buick, Anheuser Bush Golf Classic, you won Byron Nelson, Centel Western Open, so that's legit. That's true. Yeah, that's true.

It was Ohio Kings Island Open. Oh my gosh, and the heart of... Sorry, man. Mason, right? Mason Kings, yeah. He wanted Texas open. He wanted counties. He actually kind of did a ton of damage in Texas at home.

So he won the Texas amateur, I think four times. Had a great amateur career, but I think another thing that goes into over appreciated guys, are guys that kind of fly onto the scene from the start. Had a great career, Texas, played great golf as a junior golfer. Great career, Texas. Great. I know. And that's fair.

And I'm not saying you're under saying it, but like he was amazing. I know, and then you hear that a lot. Like, you know, he's a huge Texas alum. And so all of that credit is due, but the pro career, I think when I went in to look him up, I was like, man, I kind of thought this would be a little bit more impressive.

Like other than, I mean, he's consistently in the top 10 at Augusta throughout the 80s. But the open championship, third, T8, T4, didn't really do a ton in the US open. I guess T4 wants three. I mean, at 16 top 5s and majors, that seems pretty good. So I had Crunch out on my list of people to investigate. He was up. And I also went out and I had that he may be on the over-appreciate side of his current partnership of Corn Crenshaw.

Oh, my goodness. You kind of took the air out of the balloon. I was just filling out there. I think, oh, I was going to sit, no, I was going to say that. Body of work. I took him off the list because he's basically built a arguably even more successful second career for himself, but I can't argue with-

I give him credit, and I would appreciate it. I wanna give him credit for the body of work. He's an impressive individual, if you look at everything, but if we're talking about overappreciated as a golfer, it's basically just like, oh, he's the best putter of all time, just full stop. Like let's not even look into it anymore. I thought, well that's of what they do with Ricky.

Yeah, a little bit. And I think the core gets overlooked. And tell me if I'm going to architecture gang here. Tell me if I'm wrong. Does he get too much credit for the core and Crenshaw partnership? Is he over? Tarty, who gets it?

First of all, who gets it? The team member. Yeah. So that's my nomination. That's a very, it's a compelling case. Yeah. I feel it's partly people appreciate Krenshaw beyond his, and maybe this is the same argument with couples too, but well beyond even his architecture,

he just seems like such a genuinely good guy. Yeah, exactly. I have one more thing to add, there is someone else who thinks that Ben Krenshaw is certainly overappreciated. It is the TSA agent at Hartzfield Jackson International Airport in 2015. The day after the master's Monday, I was in Atlanta for the master's, I wasn't at Augusta. I was leaving to go back to San Francisco. The security line was one of those just righteous scenes where it's like an obstacle course.

It's wrapping around everything, snake and back and forth, switch backs everywhere. And I see Ben Crenshaw and he goes to the pre-check line thinking like, I'm not standing on that thing. Goes up, gets the TSA later, and it was literally a situation of like, come here, come here, get the fuck out of my face. Go, no, you are not pre-checked,

you need to go back there and he stood there. And the TSA lady was taller than him. She was kind of like imposing on him. And he was like, he just kind of put his head down and walked to the back of the security line. And I tried to line up, I was at the back of the line as well. I was like, oh my God, it's Ben Cretch Shaw. He's like, damn, he just got completely backed down.

Like he's gonna get into the regular security line with the omen with me. And I was trying to set it up where we would switch back and I could give him an NLU-cusy, but it didn't work out. He was like not happy, you know? Cause I'm sure a guy that's used to fly in private

and just at Hartfield, Jackson Man, you're just one of the people. So about changes my whole opinion on that. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. So maybe underappreciated by the TSA, but she thought he was overappreciated. He's like, I don't know who you opinion on the whole whole thing. So, maybe under appreciated by the TSA, but she thought he was over appreciate. He's like, I don't know who you are, get out of here. I'm trying to think who maybe does slip through that TSA line.

I don't know. I mean, what's the cutoff? Gentle bends, I don't know. Tom Watson get through there. Maybe. I don't know. All right, next up. Thank you, Dale.

We really had four top tens of the US open. Am I ruined by a K-stammit? I'm kind of in a US open. So mean, I ruined my case. Damn it. I was thinking about Crenshaw. I was like, you know what? This isn't one of my picks. But it was just similar. I was like, Justin Leonard is like the off brand,

store generic version. No as per tape, Ben Crenshaw. Of Crenshaw, Carclin Signature. I like storeied amateur and collegiate career. You won one major instead of two. You won, beat up the Texas open. I think you won the Texas open three times. So, I don't think he's overappreciated.

I just, it was just jarring to see that. First guy is anybody who won the Masters, is there only major? Pre, like, 1995. So then Crenshaw's on the list. No once is there only In Wusna so you got Tommy Aaron gay brewer your ghost T. C's Archer Now you're sad Larry my no I don't know when my is more. And Fred Couples. And I took, or while junior, Claude Harmon

and Hermen Kaiser out of that mix, because they won. You were saying Hermen Kaiser too much. They won pre-1960, and I don't think they got as much run out of it. But think about the guys like a Kudi or a Wuznam, or any of those guys. Every year they've gone back to Augusta

and they get so much more FaceTime because of it. And then, it's like, it's exhausting a little bit. I love where you had that. I would feel a lot better if you'd pick one of those guys and single them out. What's a woozy number one in the world for a long time? Yeah, I don't know about a long time, but you know what? I'll say Craig Stadler because I think his profile is probably the highest of those guys.

And you know, while, and this is not a knock on Craig Stadler at all, it's just his profile is maybe a little bit higher than that definition of what it's. And his accomplishments would indicate, you know? I, the wall risk. That brings up a really good point. I think one thing that goes towards over appreciation is someone with a good nickname. Exactly.

And the wallress is an example of that. I was gonna get to it next time, but Fuzzy's Eller, just the fact that his name is Fuzzy. But his nickname is Fuzzy. Fuzzy Watson. Bubble Watson, I think that goes a mile. Yeah, but I'll appreciate it. In branding and getting a lot more run.

Well, I said there's another common characteristic is, you know, pretty good looking, good head of hair, telegenic, I would say. People are very biased against the bald. Exactly. Exactly. Neil, Neil, you're gonna run into that now that you shaped your head. Listen, I've had some issues. I went to the store the other day and it was just, yeah, it's completely different.

You used to just get waves right through TSA. Couldn't get any service. Well, if that's the case, then Crenshaw would have gotten waves through TSA. He's got a great head ahead. Great head. Yeah, that's true. All right. T.C., that was interesting as well.

Yeah. Big guy. Second nomination. T.C. that was interesting as well. Yeah. Big guy, second nomination. Okay. When I say best player to never win a major, who do you think of in history? Monty. I think of Monty, but it's probably not.

Yeah. Monty. Ernie. Ernie, who? Ernie who? Ernie else. You won with three more. Sorry.

Yeah, what am I thinking? I was thinking of masters, sorry. We can edit that out. Oh, no, it's got to happen. That was just like complete lesson. I like to see if you had masters on the three. No, we were talking about masters. I thought he met Ernie Johnson.

I was like, I don't think he could. No, that's, that's, that's it. I'm gonna own that one. That was a total. I got blown up. All the South Africans were, they're, that's, that's it. I'm gonna own that one. That was a total. I got blown up. The, all the South Africans were, they're like, wait, Tony Jacqueline's not South African dude. And then all these Europeans really, Tron, like Tony Jacqueline was the whole concession thing

with Nicholas, like that was Tony Jacqueline. Oh, which, listen, I think the whole concession thing was mega overblown. I, I think they're appreciated. Definitely make a golf course and name it after. I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I should have said British. That's kind of, and I got some words matter. I got confirmation from folks in the UK that he was, that the weight of the nation was on a shoulder to one Wimbledon. So I heard he's not the British.

When he wins, he's got a strong lose. If you say dumb shit on here, people like you up. Oh, yeah. It's a lot of the deal. Anyway, that was, I just said some dumb shit. So I'm going to get lit up. But I was thinking masters just to, just to put that out there. Sorry. No, it's okay

So Monty of course probably best player who still playing Lee Westwood Lee Westwood Don't do this. He was on my investigation list as well. Don't do this. What do it? We had our people look into it Lee Westwood is so overappreciated hell. Yeah Hell yes homeless man's Monty. Like, shouldn't even be in the same, in the same stress. Most of all, Lee Westwood. As Monty.

Lee Westwood is one, he drew a tour of it. Well, that's the only chink in my honor. But, he's out here to, uh, Robert Gargis, right? Did he win the, the FedEx the year that Robert Gargas should pay us? Yes, he beat Robert Garagas in big, big Bob Carlson. Yeah.

He also won the freeport McDermott Classic. Which we know you love events like that. Which is great. That's the Zary. That's the Zary. That's New Orleans. Okay, so Westwood, 25 Euro Tour wins very good. Honestly, I thought it would be way more than that.

Right? I thought it was like 40. But gentlemen, like Monty has 131 on the Euro Tour. Monty won the Euro Tour player the year four times. The order of merit eight times Westwood, three time player the year on the Euro Tour, only two time order of merit winner. And this is where I think the comparison really

bifurcates, if you will, Monty, five major runner-ups and heart breaks. We're talking 94 US Open loss in a playoff, 95 PGA loss in a playoff. We're gonna be able to do it in 94. He'll, already out. The 97 US Open, he loses by one shot. The 2006 US Open US open of course makes double and loses by one shot Westwood three major runner-ups in his whole career three major runner-ups So none of them so just two less than Monty none of them was he within three shots of the winner

Non-competitive runner-ups you hate backdoor backdoor moves He sounds like the backdoor in some of them he could have some of him. He could have just a lot of time. She was in the front door and then he kind of slowly backed out the door. Westwood has was ranked number one in the world for 22 weeks. Total in his career. He's something Monty never comes. He's one of two players, along with Luke Donald, your boy TC,

to be ranked number one and never win a major. Lee Westwood has spent 354 weeks in the official World Golf ranking top 10, 354 weeks. And what does he have to show for it? Two PGA tour wins. You know, three major runner ups, but you know, ready? I can't put. I like the way you're going about it though,

you've defined over appreciated as dudes that people consider excellent golfers, but they don't win. That's what I'm getting here. He's been a part of seven Ryder Cup teams. Um, and his singles record is two and five. And those Ryder cups, guys, this is four. This is record is seven, two and four. This is chicken soup. He's like, he's just be leaning on his partners in that.

He goes, I can't win a singles match. I think my thesis for Lee Westwood is he is very good, not great. I don't think he deserves to be in the conversation for best player to never win a major. I think, you know, I think. Oh, no, best current player to never win a major. I think, you know, I think. Oh, no best current player to that one a major. Who else would be in that conversation? Like, I don't even know. I don't know, but it's it.

Ricky. Ricky. Ricky for sure. Yeah. Like pick anybody. Like Bryson. All right, I'm going to poke some holes here. Okay.

He has four to pan golf tour wins. We all, I'm gonna I'm gonna poke some holes here. Okay. He has four Japan golf tour winds. We all I appreciate people to play worldwide. He's gonna give the air horn. He's one the Sumitomo visa Taihei O Masters three times. Forget about that. Anyone the Dunlop Phoenix once which is a three times essentially is like a WGC to me. Yeah, he went back to back to back. He went to you first of all. Oh, man, no, it is not. Yeah. He's a Hall of Fame. I mean, that's he won the he won the Sumi Tomo Masters 96 97 and 98. He wins like the Gilbert gop and shit like that all the time. The fact that you're leading with leading with that. Hold on. Yeah.

He won the Ned bank. Ned balance. That's the one I'm thinking. Are you just running his Wikipedia? I went through it all myself. Like 14 people in the net bank. He's one of like sick time. Hold on. Hold on.

Like I read it all last night. He's got eight Asian tour wins. Uh, this is the point. I think you're making the point. You're, you're, you're self running yourself. Is there a point? What are we? He has 19 top 10s and majors.

Again, he has five, five top 10s and players like he's an exceptional player. His longevity has been has been, you know, I mean, he's been on the block since like 97. He's not exceptional. He's been on the block for 20 years. If he was a great guy, that was my whole thesis. Good, not great. It's all longevity. It's counting stats. Is he that appreciated though? Yes. And this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is,

and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this is, and this same thing. Tuesdays of majors, Wednesdays of majors. He's gonna win. Lee Westwood's gonna win. Have you guys not been watching? No, he's not. Are you kidding me?

He's the basketball player that chasing the triple doubles. Chase in the triple trouble. I mean, he's the baseball player who had a 21 year career and hit 280. He's just compiled a lot of numbers. He's Fred. He's Fred. He's out of longevity.

To be clear, he's obviously played most of his golf in the European tour, but he's made. He's Fred McClure. Out of longevity. To be clear, he's obviously played most with golf in the European tour, but he's made 239 career PGA tour starts. That's not a small amount also. That's a lot. Yeah. He's one, A, he won the FedEx Synchute Classic, wearing a UPS logo.

That's sick too. That was sick. That's sick. He's one of my dissimovere appreciation. But he might be overappreciated. Robert Carlson also won that event, I believe, right? I know he had his runner up. Maybe he's the him and Lee Westwood around similar footing.

No, because Robert Carlson hasn't won 25 times on the Euro tour. To your point, Randy, I think obviously the Westwood and Monty thing of their dominance on the European tour and inability to win on the PGA tour is glaring. It's glaring. You can't be that dominant on the Euro Tour and tell me that means that much if you also can't win on the US tour.

Yes. Thank you. You won twice on the US tour. In 239 starts, like, that's a lot of starts. A lot of starts. How many? Do you want to get on Fee now for winning once in 146? How many of those are majors over a, over a, he's got half as many.

Many three years span. That's, that's almost a hundred of those are majors. Half as many wins as Ben Curtis and infinitely less majors than Ben Curtis. The limit does not exist. So compelling case. You're sick. All right. We're going way off the reservation on this one. You're sick. You're sick, I. All right.

We're going way off the reservation on this one. Free your mind. Just gonna love my next one. Not to be constrained by any labels that we're talking about here. It is a golf person. Born February 10th, 1945, near Philadelphia. Got into the game, his uncle was a golf course architect. His uncle, George. The Faws. got into the game his uncle was a golf course architect.

His uncle George. The Fuzz. The Fuzz. The Fuzz is exactly correct. Of course TC notes. Oh, the Fuzz. That's the Fuzz for sure. Tom Fazio is on my list.

Let's figure out where to, let's set up the bonafides here first of all. More than 200 courses to his name. That doesn't, I don't even believe, include all the Redoos. Thrice been named golf digest best modern day golf architect. In the, that's not like a yearly thing. That's just best modern architect. They just made it.

No, I'm clearly they gave it to him three times. Yeah, I've listened to that. We're going to, we're going to maybe poke some holes in some of the golf digest methodologies. Let's go into the golf digest 2019-20 best golf courses in the United States. How many courses do we think the FAS originals? In the United States? What year?

This year? 2019-2020, best in the United States, top 100. 14. Yeah, I was gonna guess in the teens I'll 16 Fantastic guys. I'll it's 13 13 that the Fahs has to his name in the United States as Many golf wonks will know golf magazine just completely revamped its Process of how it names its it's world top 100 anyone cared a guest granted that 13 was in the United States. But how many in the world does in the golf magazine rankings does the FAS have? That's that's kind of apples and oranges. It is very much apple oranges, but I would think that I would say three

in the world. Two. Four. Zero. Zero. The FAS is highest rankings in the new golf magazine. He has two, which are listed in alphabetical order, not even the... Why is it Apple's oranges? Once the world and one is the US. What are those two? And Shadow Creek. Shadow Creek or no, Wade Hampton and Congaree both made the the next best 50. But in alphabetical order. In alphabetical order. That's when you know they're, you know, now maybe if you want you know they're, you know. Now maybe if you want to get cheeky, you can list him as a co-designer of places like Pine Valley in Augusta National.

I think that would be disingenuous at best. But golf mag really cleaned it up. Golf mag had a travel window. Whereas golf digest on this, I didn't look at their world top 100. It was hard to find or navigate the website. But on their world top 100. It was hard to find or navigate the website. But on their US top 100, they had, they had him listed as an architect on Pine Valley,

Augusta, Oakmont, Riviera, Oak Hill, Spyglass, and Monorite Peninsula, Shore Course, which I know he's the name that comes to mind when you think of all of those places. He's just pissing on everything. They had him Wade Hampton at number 25, Shadow Creek at 26, Vialotion Club at number 31, Gauze Ranch 32, Victoria National 43,

Butler National, which he did with his uncle George, at 47, Dallas National 65, the Estonsea Club at 70, the Quarry at Lakinta, 77, Hudson National, 81, Diamond Creek, 90 Spring Hill golf course. I believe it was 91 and the Preserve golf course, 96. None of those carried over into the new revamped golf magazine list, which I thought was. I suppose. Again, it's apples and oranges, but you would think that, you know, where I'm getting that to tie a bow on this is, when you really, if you gave people a list of names, casual

golf fans, a list of random names, and you said, circle the golf course architect, Tom Fasio, I gotta believe, is going to be the name that gets circled the most. And I feel like I have this conversation, many, many, many times with people, TC yourself included, where it's kind of like, okay, the FAS is, you know, he's prolific. No one can deny that. And his golf courses are like very good,

but what's his best one? And it's always turns into like, ugh, yeah, I don't really know. Why are you looking at me? I'm the one who, I talk about this whole time. No, I know, like from the other, from like your standpoint. Yeah, yeah, no, I don't really know. Why are you looking at me? I'm the one who, I talk about this whole time. No, I know, like from the other, from like your stamp. Yeah, yeah, I'm not.

I'm looking for one after you get detonated by Randi. Exactly, I thought, I thought, I'm looking for humanity here. I thought you were saying I was saying, the exact opposite. I mean, I just wrote an article in golfers journal about how Fazio is like the proprietor of the cheesecake factory. Exactly.

And do you want to unpack that at all? Well, I, you know, if you're an art person, he's like the Thomas King Cade. Oh. Of golf course architecture. Sure. So just kind of a period piece. Nobody's better at growing grass.

And doing like growing grass, drainage, the technical elements of the job. And probably giving clients what they want. Exactly. Part of it is like, you know, like these clients didn't know any better. Yeah. They gave them exactly what they want. Exactly. Part of it is like, you know, like these clients didn't know any better. Yeah. Um, they gave them exactly what they wanted and, you know,

and did it probably over budget. Which is. Which is where I think he's most overappreciated. Which is it. Is there is a group of guys where this thing actually matters and Fosio's not in this group, which is, hey, do you want wanna go play blah, blah, blah? It's a Fos.

Like, and people will say that as like, hey, that's a great thing, that's a Fosio question. Like, you should play all of them. It's a good one though. It's a good, no, not even that. It's like, oh yeah, it's a Fosio, like they got a new Fosio course there. Ooh, that's what it means.

Absolutely nothing to me. Like, there might be some okay ones, but like, if you said there's a new core Crenshaw course there, I'd be like, let's go play it. I want to see what they did there. I'm another guy that I think is benefited from an interesting name.

I think that's exactly right. Oh, Fosio, Tom Fosio. Sounds very, very exotic kind of neat. Sounds a little bit like. I'll give Fosio about, I think Fosio is a far better architect than Rhys Jones. Oh yeah. He didn't unpack the cheesecake take though.

Well, it's not. It's not bad. I wouldn't even call Fosio bad. You're never gonna have a bad meal there. I know. No, no, I'm saying Reese Jones, I would say. But like two months later, you're not gonna remember what you had. It's like, I can go over Pablo Creek next week.

Can you? I can't. I can't. I can go over there. I can rave about the conditioning. There, I can remember three or four holes every time I can't. I can go over there, I can rave about the conditioning. I can remember three or four holes every time I play it. I can't remember the rest of the course. It's just a bunch of medium length par fours

that run together with a bunch of big menu. Drainage basins. That's exactly where I'm at. This is not meant to be woke architecture guy. It's not meant to be any of that. It's the point is I, Mr. Nicholas and Mr. Fasio have to your points, I'll be benefited more from the like quote unquote signature design than anybody else. Right. Right. Don't think that the the output, as you're seeing a

lot of them, you know, be redone or blown up or whatever. Yeah, I just don't think the output really matches the the Pnash. But the comfort whatever. Yeah, I just don't think the output really matches the penache. But the comfort stations. Yeah. We can debate that on another pod. Very good one. That was good.

I didn't know we were going outside of players, but that's what that's well done. It works. I did, then I realized it was overappreciated golfers. So it's a little disingenuous, maybe? But he plays golf, though. White fast, exactly. And he loves Shabli. So it's a little disingenuous, but he plays golf though. What? Exactly.

And he loves Shabli. I am expecting to gain no fans with my next one. Mm. It pains me. It hurt. It was more and more damning the more I uncovered. Okay. You're a real beauty.

Yeah. I am. 3PGA Tour wins. 22 career top 10s. He only had 122 career starts. He's remembered very fan-today. Anthony Kim. It's Anthony Kim. Wow.

He's remembered very fondly by American belt fans. I think it, because of the Ryder Cup situation, you think that has a lot to do? Ryder Cup, the swag, Colin Tiger T-Dub, the belt buckles, the Nike sponsorship. He was, he was more. He was more. Yeah.

He was marketed, he won twice in 2008, and then won once more in 2010. 22 career top 10s. Remember that number as we get kind of go through. So after he comes out hot, he only has nine total top tens his next three years after the two win season. He never made the torch championship after 2008.

So it was never in the top 30 before the last event of the year, other than the year he won twice. That could have been a protest of the FedEx kind of. So we're going to do a quick little comparison. Okay. 122 career starts, again, 22 top tens. Okay. This person had, in his first 126 starts had 33 top 10s. Who might that be, a young American player? Well, you're staring.

So intently at me. So I think it's Ricky. How many wins in that period? Ricky had in his first 147 starts. He had as many wins as AK had in 122. So 25 extra starts, but that's how long it took him to get to three wins. And JT's first 113 starts, which is less than AK's whole career.

He won nine times. That's a lot. JT has 12 wins and 145 starts. But how many full fields? Only 23 more starts than AK and nine more wins. Speed 11 of his first 119. Speeds a good though. You got to remember. Bryson won five of his first 100.

Bryson. Oh God. Right. I almost put Bryson in the over appreciated. Would not. I would have to. Yeah. There would be some fight to go. So here's another one. A guy still playing still a top player in the game. He won three times in his first 114 starts and had 25 top 10s. He's in American.

He's in his mid 30s now. Played on several Ryder Cup teams. How do you do that? He's one major. Web Simpson. My case, Anthony Kim is essentially web Simpson with swagger. My call. Nobody has ever like, oh God, have we still had web Simpson? No one would say that about web Simpson,

but their records are extremely similar. I think that might even be offensive to web Simpson. I was gonna say, I think you're giving them way to my credit. I'm talking about start to the career. I'm not even talking about once you get to a major. I mean, this is pre-web winning a major. But yeah, his first 114, 25 top 10s and three wins. So. I love the case. I mean, this is pre-web winning a major. But yeah, his first 114, 25 top 10s, three wins.

So. I love the case. I mean, listen, nobody love the guy more than me. I don't even really actually remember him that well. I just, the idea of him is great. And the record doesn't match up. He was not speed, he was not JT, he was not Bryson. He was not even Ricky, he was essentially Webb coming out.

And Webb's had an excellent career, but I think people think of Anthony Kim Moore in the speed and JT bucket. I would say overappreciated could go along with what if? Because Anthony Kim was the great what if. The great what if. But it speaks to the problem that he can come and coming on the scene hot is really a factor in the over there's two sides to the what if also true every you know

Exactly, it's the guy thing, but it could have got a lot worse You know the what if was not just like oh if you want to say healthy would have done all these things like that maybe not Maybe what his game wasn't it was not extremely I mean, what is his game was, it was not extremely, extremely polished. Yeah, I mean, it was explosive. Yes, very explosive, that's a great term. He's like one of those, those wide receivers that, you know, he's raw,

but he ran, he just ran a 427 at the combo. Stereo's, he would bet. Artabious Brian. That's pretty good. Ted Ginn. Ted Ginn had a long career though. Ted Ginn's stings. Right.

Teggins College Highlight Teggins. Teggins, Pastic. Teggins College Highlight Teggins. Pastic. Pastic. Pastic. Pastic. Pastic.

Pastic. Pastic. Pastic. Pastic. Pastic. Pastic. Pastic. Pastic. Pastic. Pastic. Pastic. We feel like I'm gonna feel out the room a little bit, okay? I'm gonna stick with what I mentioned earlier, just because I brought up Fuzzy's Ele.

In the case is, he was two-time major winner. Both majors were one in a playoff. And he was crowned a bit. He won the 1984 US Open in the playoff over who? We don't know who the guy is yet, so I don't know. Oh, I said Fuzzy's Ele. Oh, sorry. What year was it?

I think it's because you said two. Oh, 77. That, sorry. What year was it? Sorry? I think it's because you said oh 77 1984 US open. Where was it played? I think it was played at wing foot or shinnokok. I don't know. I can't I have to look it up But we went over it in a past podcast Ray Floyd. No Shark. Oh right the shark sure So the shark kind of came back to the field, kind of crowned him. He was the, he was the Saturday leader. And then at Augusta, 1979, it was the Ed Sneed incident. Exactly.

So he was six strokes behind. It was also a fuzzy, it was always first master's appearance. I think another guy who got a lot of run out of coming back to Augusta, you're after your career. So that's what I'm getting at. One, he kind of got crowned with the majors. So he's kind of right place, right time. Really interesting name. Seem like, oh, fuzzies on the leaderboard. You know, definitely got some burn out of that. Turn to do a Vod Camo Google. Yes. Also, you know, known for his one liners, known as person. I would

rate a scripted comedy career. Yeah, I'd say that. I was gonna say, I was gonna say, how would you rate his scripted comedy career? Yeah, I'd say, but I would also say, got some run out of that. Like, oh, that's fuzzy being fuzzy, but he's great. He's a great play. You gotta understand, like,

he's one of the best guys out here. He's not as a fun. He just missed judges in the room there. He thought he was safe and agusted and make blatantly racist comments. Total of 10 PGA tour wins. I just thought a lot. That's not a lot.

It's not a lot. And I think that he comes onto the scene wins his first masters and again, kind of just rides that into maybe not a great sunset. Technically, he won three majors because he won the senior PGA. Oh, okay. Is he in the Hall of Fame? Uh, good question. He also won the skins game. What's the criteria when you had a second major? Is there, I know it's like, I thought it was supposed to be like 15 wins and one major. One major. I also were on his Wikipedia page. I need to watch myself.

I need to watch my self. He filed a defamation lawsuit against Joseph Sinnelly and associates. Look like somebody put something in his Wikipedia page that wasn't true coming from their computers. Associates look like somebody put something in his Wikipedia page that wasn't true coming from their computers It suggested that he committed acts of Alcohol drug and domestic abuse and Yeah, they settled out a court I know you can sue someone for that. So hopefully I'm just saying over appreciated nothing more nothing less

That's you get sued That's a good idea. I would not have know, I, that's a good, I would not have guessed that. I caution all of you to agree with me. I've heard some good story, like, that go beyond the, oh, this guy used to just get shit-faced and tell jokes, like some good, interesting stories about fuzzying. All right, next up, TC. Oh man, there's a lot of different directions I can go

with this one. Um, aren't there just two? Yeah, I still don't understand how you, how do you come up with these lists? Oh, there's many, many directions. He's a thematic guy. There's eight different kids from the 14 to 15 year old

drive chip and putt thing that I want to talk about. Well, yeah, that, I didn't even get, I didn't even think about that, DJ. All right, we're gonna do the 15 year old drive chip and put the good I wanna talk about. Well, yeah, I didn't even get in, I didn't even think about that, DJ. All right, we're gonna do it here. This guy was born in 1950 in Evanston, Illinois. He was a greenskeeper for a while. Gonna need a little more. He's won the 18T Pebble Beach Pro Am.

It's a Bill Murray. Bill Murray. Just on the pro or the Amps side. Has anybody ever gotten more fucking mileage out of golf before a Bill Murray? I love this. That's so good. That is really good.

I'm so here. He's a golfer. He is 100% over appreciated. I wanna end the golf world. That's a good. That is really good. I'm so here. He's a golfer. He is 100% over-appreciated. I wanna end the golf world. That's a fantastic take as long as we're talking about Bill Murray, the golfer. Yeah. I think Bill Murray, the actor, is still underrated.

Yeah, I agree. I agree. Yeah, I think he's become so over-appreciating his golf stuff that is over-shadowed. He's like, the zany clown on the golf course. I think that might be the best case we've heard so far. That's say no more TC. I think you get really, really good from the squad've heard so far. That's... Say no more TC. I think you get four-by-it from the squad.

That is great. That's great. I've said this a bunch on the pod I know, but when you're at Pebble and he's going around doing his thing, like people are so into it. I know how nails on the chalkboard is on the telecast and how like grading it is, but people legitimately love it.

I get why tournament directors love having them out. I don't know if you guys saw any of that. I guess that was just immediate day in Charleston, but like, oh, solid solid firsthand. Oh, he just detonated me. Well, that was sick. But people lose their shit when he's around.

I do. Yeah, which, like if you go through that for your whole life, I think it kind of turned you into something. Definitely. And he was just not up for it. I wanted to ask him some questions on camera. Which is a question. It's immediate.

Yeah, you have to be on. Yeah, it was, I'm, yeah. Well then he did the same thing to the local news station, like 15 minutes after. He did that to me once when I was working at the tour as well. I was asking him for just like a dumb like Instagram. Do you think it's a test? Do you think he's looking for somebody to punch back

or alpha him a little bit? In the moment, I'm like, God, that sucks. He's like my favorite actor and he just like, bodied me. And then I looked at it again and I was like, man, imagine being super famous. Would you want to be on someone you don't know as Instagram? Like, no, probably not.

So, okay. I understand. I understand how to get that. I 100% think he's over there. But weren't you doing it on behalf of the PGA tour? For sure. I don't know that he really was interested in grasping the context of the request. All right.

Final round, big Randy. Oh, final round. Okay. My final guy is a green skipper, by the way, or a caddy. I was a caddy, he was a caddy. He was a caddy. I thought he was an actual green skipper, for example. What a world. I thought he was an actual greenskeeper for the entire world.

I thought he was a caddy. My final guy is a 35 year old American. It's been ranked number one in the world for 91 cumulative weeks, fifth all time, only trailing Tiger, Greg Norman, Rory, and Nick Fowdo. DJ? DJ. Mm. White thesis. I'm ready. How could the greatest player of all time yield?

That's the picture. I'm so glad you said that, because that's my exact thesis, is if we're to accept that DJ at one time, on this one shot. I'm one shot in a singular moment in time as the greatest player of all time. I would say one person has, I wouldn't say if we are to accept that. Well my whole case is right now at this incident right now DJ's most over appreciated golfer maybe of all time. Based on what?

Based on one major four runner ups three of those pretty non competitive runner-ups. You have the 2011 British The 2019 masters and PGA where you know, it was just to be kind of backdoor 11 British was competitive He had a ball OB on 14 that basically cost in the tournament. I think yeah, okay. I'll give you that Guy feasts on only a handful of courses, which TC TC I know you don't like that in your golfers You'd like to see him win on a wide variety of raps. He'd like to say when it fits his argument He also plays internationally agreed played well, you know one in Saudi Arabia TC's a globalist But the the the thrust of my case comes down to you know if we look at his company

I found the rank number one in the world for 91 weeks. Like, let's just look at his company. Nick Fowldo is directly ahead of him. Fowldo was rank number one in the world for 97 weeks. He of course has six majors. Rory has been ranked number one in the world for 101 weeks in his career. Of course, has four majors. I think, honestly, I think DJ is heading if there's like, he's the Greg Norman. You know, Norman was ranked number one for 331 weeks in his career.

Why are you saying Greg Norman was, I mean, if we're talking about this, Greg Norman's got his own line label and design business. I don't see dust and Johnson having any of that. No, no, I mean, I think, you know, he just done now. He's gonna have, again, he's a guy that's gotten less out of maybe the most talent. You wanted to make this personal.

No. I just think if we're gonna keep harping on him being the greatest player of all time, again, not we. We need to accept that he's also probably the most over If we're gonna keep harping on him being the greatest player of all time, again, not we. We need to accept that he's also probably the most over-appreciated guy, maybe of all time as well. So, I thought about that one. I couldn't, I didn't know where I landed on that other than like, I think we almost underpriced his talent, but also, yeah, his, the fact he's only one one majors.

So, there's an argument to be made on both sides of that coin. Because I think we brought him up as underappreciated, like he said, solid for just the sheer amount of talent he has and you almost forget about it. Yeah. And as long as you have to do that. But I think, Ray makes a strong case for overappreciated. I mean, 22 top five, sorry, 22 top 25s in majors out of 42.

Seems pretty good. I'm looking for more wins though. Like at some point you got a win. Hey, he's only, talking only majors because he does win elsewhere. He's only 35. What about your boy? Old on select tracks.

What about your boy, Mikkelson? He didn't win his first major until he was how old? 33. 33. So DJs, you know, DJ, because they're right there behind him. That's, and I still kind of went on a tarot. And if we want to do this pot again in three years, I will happily, you know, walk

back my take if he wins three or four more majors. Do you have anything to say about the 18th hole, the 72nd hole at Oakland? That's where I would give him not, I don't think it's necessarily one shot. It could be one shot many different times, but I think over that one hole, for sure, you give him that whole hole. Yeah. You've degraded. That's the greatest hole I've ever played. Which, you know, no response.

He's closed. It's a bit anymore. I'm like, what the? No, that's cool. I mean, one of maybe the most talented guy of all time. That's what he can point to he played one really exceptional hole golf That's you know, I want a tournament too. Well, yeah played 72 exceptional. Yeah, 71 exceptional holes and that's cool Outstanding he won one tournament. So I think he's a little over-appreciated next topic. You're sick guy No, it's a good one.

All right. Stick with me on this one. I'm gonna have some explaining to do. But, he was born May 27th, 1912. In Ashwood, Virginia. Is he still with us? Sam's need. Sam's need.

It is. I know where you're going with it. It is going. It's the major, or no, sorry, it's the PGA Tour wins record is what we're really going after here. And the reason we're fighting on behalf of my client Tiger Woods who has been put into a unfair race for the last five years of his career here trying to catch this Sam Sneed wins record, which is a tough scene. The Tiger Guinness shit about that though. No, but the point is like that's what's kept Sam Sneed kind of in the appreciated context.

Sam Sneed, fantastic player. 141 professional wins, including seven majors. And Randy Steeces, he's the best player of all time. Nothing to lose. I just wins. Nothing to sneeze at, certainly. Always looking for a game. He's a fantastic player.

What were hyper focused on? He stood during wartime, though. Well, we're hyper focused on here. Much like Bill Murray, the golfer, instead of Bill Murray, the actor is this P.J. Tour wins record, which it's really through no fault of his own that he's been attributed to these victories. But in his 82 PGA Tour wins that has stood

for the last however many years since they kind of cooked this up as the gold standard on the PGA Tour, included in those are five four ball wins, where he just had a partner. Uh, three 36 hole wins. One 18 hole win. And four, uh, wins at the Palm Beach round robin. What is the Palm Beach round robin?

You may ask. Let me, uh, pull up that Wikipedia page. The field consisted of 15 players. They would play, they would play. That's not the hero world check. They would play seven rounds in the most don't count for Tiger. They would play seven rounds in five three sums, a total of 126 holes. A player earned or lost points on each hole in match play style based on his

score versus two opponents for that round. So you got a plus one for every hole you want and a minus one for every hole you lost. And I guess after 126 holes, he added up who had the most pluses and minuses. And that was your champion. So anyways, four of his wins were those. And so that's just a very cursory glance

at the events that were included in this. But Tigers, you can only play the schedule, you can play though. For sure, but. But he's over-appreciated because of it. Due to some people in a research room, who I, you can dig into this, but I think the tour has been pretty open about like, yeah, when we had to, a lot of these weren't official PJ tour victories because the PJ tour didn't exist back then. So we had to just kind of go through the records and pick like, I guess that one's good,

that one's not good, that one counts, that one doesn't count. Which of the Palm Beach round robin counted? What didn't count? Exactly. And that's where my whole thesis here is, like, we need to just call cat the winningest player in the history of the PJ tour and be done with it. And until that happens, I won't rest. Sneat also has a food and beverage establishment at our local Jacksonville airport.

Exactly. Yeah, I guess that, you know, that could affect our people. And you design Jack's Peach. And he possibly designed parts of Jack another example of the masters. The first T shot kept him. Yeah, you know, his name very top of I mean, you said seven made a very young golfer though. Like I think all this play to win on the PJs or maybe the best swing. Not to say it wasn't. Well, I'm not saying it wasn't deserved.

Did he got the honorary first T shot, but it kept him top of mind. Yeah, definitely. So is he one of the all-time greats? Absolutely. Is the wins record kind of bullshit? Yes. Love it. All right, I'm just gonna name this next one

and I'm gonna ask a question along with it. It's Chichi Rodriguez. Oh, you took my last one. Dammit. We're on the same wavelength here. Yeah, we all know. Never mind, I'm changing mine. How many to get it?

You can't answer this. Then how many PGA tour wins for Hall of Famer? Cheechy Rousy. Yes. He's a Hall of Famer. And this is eight. Close. He has eight. No majors. Seven other wins worldwide. It wasn't even like a worldwide win thing. He has 15 champions tour wins. He got in the Hall of Fame when he was 57. Laney didn't get into his 59 for top 10s and majors, total. That's finishes T6 and T10. Laney won 21 times and a major and didn't get into his 59. Chichi Rodriguez got in when he was 57. So, we're putting the fame in Hall of Fame here.

I honestly don't know. Like, they don't, on the website, they don't like profile as to why somebody, the records is why they got in. I, I would like to add to that. Okay. He's the first Puerto Rican to be putting the PGA to our Hall of Fame and it fits the rags to riches story for the PGA.

Guy grew up with absolutely nothing. One of the arm services, we used to play golf as much as he could whenever he got days off. Just, you know, the whole storyline for the PGA is just, you couldn't, it's like made for TV. Plus, he was on a Divo record as well. Yeah, plus the nickname. So feeds into my nickname theory.

Yep. And it feeds in like, he was, you know, always the sword. He's always jousting on the greens. So it's, it's, I was gonna say, no disrespect to Mr. Rodriguez. Though, disrespect to his aunties about to disrespect him. There's a lot of people that if you ask like, who's a golfer from the 70s or the 60s, they'd be like, what was that guy?

Cheechy, Cheechy Rodriguez, you know, like they would know who he was because of the antics and not because of the golf game. I think that's, Cheechy's like one of the antics and not because of the golf game. I think that's it. Chi Chi is like one of the first golfers I ever knew. Exactly. Because he was on TV in the, you know, late 80s, early 90s.

I would have guessed he won 28 times based on his profile. So that was what he did. He won 22 times on the senior tour. Like that's, I thought it was 15 times on the senior tour. 15 champion store wins. What I have. I mean, his 19, I got 72 senior PGA tour with. 15 champion tour wins, what I have. I mean, his 1982 senior PGA tour win. Oh, I got that wrong.

You're right. His 1987 campaign on the senior tour was incredible. Just incredible. You know what his senior tour playoff record was? 1 and 7. Yeah. Sound killer. Anyways, that's a really good one.

That's my case. Luckily, I have a backup. Okay. So you ever see the video of him getting hit and the crotch by that ricochet? That's the greatest. It's an all-timer. We'll share that.

We'll share that. And listen, it is Hall of Fame and famous golf, like so. Yeah, cool, but over appreciate it. Over appreciate it. Okay. Currently, number 71 in the official world golf rankings of other players that are below at in the top 100. How many other people have their own podcast?

Whoa. Actually more than you think because like pepper will has one Tony Fino has one. I thought it was just roaring. I should have done some research. Max Homa. Lower Christian. Everybody in this room as well. You know who you are. You know who you are. Starring in the claimed NLU series strapped. Has his own podcast, getting just blown up all the time on social media. Cover up on my feed all the time.

All the time, I just. Come and get cover of this. I'm gonna get it. I'm gonna get it. I'm gonna get it. I'm gonna get it. I'm gonna get it. I'm gonna get it. He's very strapped. Has his own podcast, getting just blown up all the time on social media. Cover up on my feed all the time. All the time. Come and get cover of golf dodges, come up on my feed, roasting people's swings.

What, he's won once? He's won one time, one time. Geez. Lost his tour car, he's won one time. Talk about getting some mileage. It's unbelievable. Over a pre-sheep. Three wins on the corn fairy tour.

He's over a pre-CWA champion. Pack's unbelievable. Over three wins on the corn fairy tour. He's over three. And the WHA champion. Pack 12 champion. Listen, amateur career. We're talking professional careers here. So if anything, he's under it. She versus this talent. That's what I'm saying.

It goes to Randy's theory as well. He's completely over appreciated. And we're guilty of it. And we need to knock it off. Max Homa. Thank you, Neil. I can't believe you go there. That's disgusting.

I'm trying to do a absolutely detonate our podcast rival. Did see that one coming. All right. A couple different directions. I can go with this one. TC, I want you to take the most of your unpopular stance you possibly can. I thought about a way to say, like, his cat overrated is, you know, overappreciated all that kind of stuff.

He's not. I looked, tried to blow up a woman. I couldn't, I couldn't find any, because none of the females are overappreciated. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which she's binders full of women, he went so. Um, you know, like I was like, all right, like Lexi,

let's dive in there. Lexi's one. She's good. A lot. She's one of major, all the women in the Hall of Fame, like they're, they're all pretty deserving and, and, um, you know, they actually go back to the what if. I, I, I didn't realize Lorena Ocho only won two majors.

Maybe I'm overappreciating her. Kind of in that AK vein. I kind of wanted to go thought about doing great Norman. Thought about doing Sergio. I did as well. But the guy that I just keep coming back to, because I think he stinks, is Hunter Mayan. Like I wanted to do, didn't see that.

Okay, I thought about Ken Venturi too. Because Ken Venturi, one major, got a ton of mileage out. He was kind of the reverse of the Johnny Miller. People forgot how good Johnny was. People really looked more fondly upon Venturi's career. You know, I wanted to do Ricky, and then the more I kept coming at Ricky, I was like, man, like, yeah.

Hunter Mayhan is, he's made so much money. All the money. Golf boy, friendly fire. He was a golf boy, he had all these sponsorships and all that for what? Monster age. Did you drink, I believe? Why?

Why? Oh, oh, oh. So that's, you know. So what? Well, it's his resume. Yeah, the resume. So he's 37 years old now, too. His career's getting to be pretty fully baked.

Wait, DJ's 35 and we're saying. Who do you think is? It's convenient, we're saying who do you think? It's convenient. Come on. Do you think trending in the world? Like here in the last 24 months, I would say with T.C. That I think Hunter Mayan and Dustin's careers are trending in opposite directions right now. I will have you know DJ hasn't won in the United States

since June of 2018. Okay. That's like under two years. Yeah. All right. He was a Texas State high school golf champion, 1999 US junior AM champion went to USC, transferred to Oklahoma State. I didn't know that.

I think a lot of these Oklahoma State guys, there's a there's a there's a a whiff of overratedness permeating from Oklahoma State. They come out with a lot of cash. They're like Ohio State quarterbacks. You could say Peter, Peter, you line, potentially overrated. Maybe they're like Wisconsin running backs. You know? Mayhands turn professional in 2003.

His first PGA tour victory was in 2007 at the Travelers Championship. I lifted him in the top 100. He has top 10s and all four major championships. So, give him credit for that. His sponsors include Under Armour, Titleist, Ping, Bio Steel, NetJets, FootJoy, Clubface Golf, RBC, and Ace Hardware. Like, you guys remember those Ace Hardware courses? That was tough, man. And it was right as his career, just like tanked that Ace was the worst thing he ever did

was didn't he, WD, as a 36-hole leader one time, because it wasn't open. I feel like he's never been the same since then. That's true. Why did he WD? I think his wife was going to deliver. Yeah, which I don't knock him,

but I feel like since then, he was on such a heater. He was a world-beater then. Yeah, like I don't knock him, but I feel like since then he was on such a heater, he was a world beater then. Not in the majors necessarily, but he was a prolific winner. He made Ryder Cup teams, all that. I don't know. He was so counted as this top 10 marketable player in the world. I just don't think he had, I don't think he had the resume. That's a huge, I thought about Mayhan also for the reason where maybe the worst sunglass game. Tough luck.

Of all time. I mean, do ball. But it was for sweet. But like Mayhan's, he had like the white haired blockers where it tough look. As some of the war white haired blockers in this time period, I have to say big influence on me yet also still tough look as some of the war white haired blockers in this time period. I have to say big influence on me yet also still tough look.

All of us. It's all raising his hand. I'll own that. That's on me. Not proud of it, but there's a lot of pictures of white haired blockers. Whatever you're going to say, yes, on the white belt. Oh, yeah. For sure. For sure. Well, before we whittle down, does anybody want to throw out any I would like to nominate one? Yeah, I think it's going to be unpopular at this table.

Can we talk about speed? He's one three majors. Three majors? What has he done for me lately? Is he running the credit card bill up without putting any money in the bank? Do we have to talk about it? He put a lot of money in the bank. I think that account's going gonna be flush for a while.

I won't be having any of this. Yeah, no thanks. I thought, listen, it would be remiss if we didn't, at least, everyone is. You guys are all, I get it. I love speed. Everyone is as much you can know. Everyone's properly appreciating how far he's fallen.

Like nobody's still like, he's still great. Like everyone's, you know what I mean? Like it's not, that's fair. He's not skating by on a... That's the dialogue I'm looking for. He's not skating by on a pass. I mean, I got an unpopular one. Please. Two majors is where I'm going with this. 42 European tour wins. Just the two majors. When you look at the guy, the list of guys with two majors, his name sticks out. I was like, gosh, you had to have had more. They were at the same course, Augusta National.

Oh, is it Maria Althauble? No. Damn it. I'm gonna say that's a lot of Eurowins. A lot of Eurowins. Like over 40 Champions Tourwins. It's very hard longer. I would say.

I would say. 40 Champions Tour wins. Which is. Bernhard Longer. Bernhard Longer. I would say. Very appreciated because of the and his longevity. I guess played great in British Opens and Masters still in. So recently he's got a lot of burn, a lot of appreciation.

He's feeling the burn. He's feeling the burn. He's feeling the burn. You look that list of two type. Like come on, Patrick Harrington's got more majors than you. Like that. That hurts a little., Patrick Harrington's got more majors than you, like that, that hurts a little.

Which Patrick Harrington garnered some shadows and underappreciated from people. Yeah, I don't fully buy that. They were asterisk majors. That's right, no cat. I'm kind of kidding, but kind of not. They were catless majors. Do you have a short spur

than you win majors? That's different than my. He's coming in for a question. I have questions about what Bernhard's doing with his putter too. I'm just going to say it for sure. Also, Polter, that was three wins and 276 career PGA Tour starts. If you're going to close off the postman, then do that. I'm going to need more than that.

He's also lived like rent-free in your head for the last decade. He shouldn't be there. He shouldn't because that's why things overappreciated. Randy brought up Sergio. No, I didn't. You brought up Sergio, didn't that. I brought up Sergio. Excuse me, Trondid.

I think Sergio makes a case for being overrated. One major. Overappreciated overrated. Sorry. Well, I would say over, yeah, maybe overrated, one major. Over, over, appreciated overrated. Sorry. Well, I would say over, yeah, maybe overrated. I think he's, no, I guess I would say the both, right? Like, let's look at the, so I wouldn't say over a, I wouldn't say over a,

35 professional wins, 10 PGA Tour victories, one major, 23 top 10s and majors. I would've thought more. The passion and vivaciousness, I don't think it's aged all that well with incidents in recent years. Haven't seen much from them after the Masters, but like, you know, if you asked somebody

that doesn't play golf to name a international golfer, he probably would be him or Rory, I think, would be one and two. Yeah, I think so. Because that, you know, I think he's definitely a little bit of a sprinting on the scene and everybody was like ready to crown him. It's Tiger versus Surgeon for the next decade. I think he's definitely on the long list.

I think he's done enough on the Euro tour and he's won on the PJ tour. He's won a major. He's done a bunch in the Ryder Cup. I think he falls outside the top 15. But I had, doing you talk about old Tom Morris. I looked long and hard, only four majors compared to his son. Like he got just crop dusted by his son, but you got to look at the architecture stuff.

On popular one possibly. Who would you say is the most popular player in the world outside attacker and fill? The Macrib, I looked at the Macrib. We need to talk about the Macrib. Who would you say is the most popular player in the world outside of Tiger and Phil? The McRibb? I looked at the McRibb. See, we need to talk about the McRibb. Guys, first two of his majors shouldn't count as majors. Why is that? Congressional is.

That was disgusting. Yeah. Kiowa. And then, yeah, you know, Kiowa. Kiowa, you know, Kiowa was not a good situation either. It worries in my crosshairs, but this is much really in the last couple of years. You know, it's Rory, it's DJ.

I think as much as the pain to me, spieth, but I still maintain spieth, it's like he's the goat, he's gonna figure it out. One other guy I'd like to nominate, based on Randy's underappreciated submission and Ben Curtis, I'd like to nominate Graham McDowell. With the same amount of wins as someone like Ben Curtis who doesn't get any burn.

Someone like McDowell gets, you know, it's like, oh god, you know, GMACs back baby, like he's so suave, you know, like this guy, Irish, yeah. Lots of be said for the personality. Lots of be said. And for the, you know, rock and pink all the time and just always, you know, look in dapper. That's an interesting take.

Yeah. Paul Casey's a guy that's, ooh, that's a good one. Yeah. I, can we acknowledge that like Ricky, I'm very proud everybody. I think it's just obvious. I don't think we really, I'm, the whole world is gonna be in a state of pain.

We all leave it into you. No, it's quarantine, he's not gonna get it. I've said my piece and, that's your block. I didn't want we really, I'm, we're all leaving it to you. No, it's quarantine. He's not going to get allowed to. I've said my piece and, that's your block. I didn't want to get out. I think Fienaou is really overappreciated right now, which we've, we've argued in the past. Are you guys going to win this year? Zero in the last half. How's that?

Six weeks. Seven weeks. In this, I got a lot bigger window now if we get forget the mega season Hey, I'd like to I'd like to point out just going back to some of the Accusations being thrown around about guys not winning stateside How many non majors Did Nick Fowdo win stateside? Four three

really It's a different era the heritage to, Dural, and how many stars. How many stars? Who can say? Still more than Westwood. Should we go to the town? Let's go to the town. We're just one quick shout out in doing all this research.

Just one, just, I don't know, this probably doesn't need to be said, but any chance we get to acknowledge the PGA tour website is a complete trash. It's done to find the tour. And also shout out to Wikipedia. It's the strap boys in cycle, pd. And just being a lack of golf database,

just continues to confound me. Yeah, it's because the PJ Torre doesn't want to play nice with others. Yeah, let's whittle it down. All right, we're going around the list. As I believe the order was Charles Schwarzel and Louis Ustazen from Randy and round one. Tron, who'd you have in round one?

It's a good question. I had all the masters. All the masters. But you whittled it down to Stadler, I believe. Craig Stadler. Neil, you had Ben Crenshaw. I had Gentleman. I had Fred Couples.

Fred Couples. But just note for posterity sake that Stadler Plus Stadler is a figurehead, he's a representative. Got it, okay, cool. Randy and round two was Lee Westwood. Lee Westwood? That was my favorite moment from the pod. Don't do this.

Tron, Bill Murray. Oh, God, That's of course. You had the Fuzz. I had Tom Fuzzio. I had Fuzzie. I had Anthony Kim. Uh, Randy had Dustin. I had DJ at this specific point in time.

In, in accord with TC's theory of relativity, it was the, it was the yang to his, uh, if, if we were picturing the universe as TC does, then I had to check. Tron, you had a hundred mayhem. Correct. So I was at that specific point in time, 15 minutes ago. What about this specific point in time?

I can be talked into Rory right now. Neil had Max Homa in the final round. I think that's true. I think that's true. Yes. Solly had. You hear that Max? Neil had Max Homa in the final Sure did yes Max And I had Sam Sneed's winter record I also just want to say in full disclosure the the shot I just lobbed at the tour website

We this is coming from a place of a website of a terrible website. We have an updated Listen, it's changing. It's gonna change, but. Yeah, why do you have to do that, man? I want to own it. I want to own that. All right, well, let's start whittling down. As you guys know, the drill by now,

I need to just hear short list or not short list. Candidly, don't need to hear much more than that. Okay. Ah, Charles Schwarzel. Yes or no, short list, no short list. No for me. no for me. No, no. Schwarzel doesn't have the votes.

What I paired him with, Louie, I think. Louie is stays in. Short list, sure. Has a yes for me. Sure. See, I think the opposite, guys, I think Schwarzel doesn't have the votes. You don't have the votes.

Good to know, you don't have the votes. Statler as a figurehead, plus others. Yes. Honestly, for debate, I'm gonna say yes because it kind of helps set up a couplehead plus others. Yes. Honestly. For debate, they say yes because it kind of helps set up a couple of my guys. Because I think it'll be a fun debate. I would just say yes.

I would just say I'll throw you. Stadler as a figurehead plus others. Crenshaw is a no from me. No. I like Niels' presentation. I'll say yes. It's a yes from me. I'll say yes to the shortlist.

He's on the shortlist. I don't know if he's gonna win out, but Fred Couples gotta be unanimous. Yes. He's yes. Lee Westwood, an emphatic all caps, yes for me. Yes. You know I have a yes.

TC, I'm gonna abstain to support the Carter Brothers for remain united. I didn't vote. Bill Murray, the golfer. Yes. The golfer? Yes. Yes.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. I would say yes too. Yes. Fosios on the list.

God, we're going to have to do some whittling here, fellas. Is it Fosio the golfer though? No. No. Because I don't know. And I don't feel comfortable voting yes without without more information. I think it's the architect. Okay. Fazio Zelli doesn't fit the criteria. Yeah. I'm saying that. Fazio is NA. I think Fazio I wouldn't feel

comfortable putting on my list of top five overrated golfers. I don't know what it's gays. I don't know what it's got. Maybe he's a good wet player Foszy isn't he's been removed from the consideration, but it's noted. Yeah, it is noted that you can relate a late Some of the Mark Burke from pipe That guy is a golfer actually He's a what if guy though Fuzzy Zeller I'm saying no. He's a no for me.

I say yes. Why is he a no for you? I just, we have a lot of names on there. I don't think he's making the final five. I'm gonna say no. Doesn't have the vote. I'm sorry, Neil. Anthony Kim, big time yes for me.

I'm gonna say yes. Yes. Dustin Johnson. Right now. Absolutely not. Right now. No. I'm gonna say yes. Yes. Dustin Johnson. Right now. Absolutely not. Right now. No.

I'm gonna say no. Jerry's still out. Jerry's gonna say yes. I would like your vote on record, was he? I am present for the vote and I would like to vote yes, but it doesn't matter. Okay, thank you. Hunter Mayhan feels like kind of a random shot.

I'm gonna say no. I mean, TC made it. He kind of a random shot. I'm gonna say no. I mean, TC made it, he's got a compelling case. Do you hear a lot of people, well listen, I don't wanna do that. I think we recorded this in 2012, or like 2014, I'm with you. I'm saying he might be under-appreciated. That's true, that's why too close.

Maybe like 2016. He's not an ace commercial. I think he's, I think he's, he's already been buried kind of yeah, he's not at this point It's like no man. What happened to that guy? So it's gonna be a no for me dog Max Homa. Yes. Yes, yeah Max has a golfer the diner boys Absolutely, I've got to even present that to the jury

He lost he lost it and match the dire boys Too much it's actually He lost the match, the dire boys. Too match, actually. Damning evidence. Gigi Rodriguez, I think an absolute yes for me. Yes. Yes. Yes. With the nature of the exercise we're doing. Sam Sneeds win record.

If we're thrown out the fuzz, I'm going to throw this out. Yeah, because it's the golfer. Sam Sneeds win record, the golfer. I don't know the record way in. You didn't really play by the rules, so well. I didn't, no, I'll hand up on that one. All right, we've got one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10. We only, we only knocked out five.

Okay. A lot of work to do. So we have a lot of work to do. I don't know if you guys have any particular order you'd like to go in. I don't know if we will. Maybe we can. Should we induct a lot of work to do. I don't know if you guys have any particular order you'd like to go in. I don't know if we will. Well, we start with the- Should we induct a couple that I think seems to be-

That's right. That's where our fried couples is in. Fried couples is in. I think he's definitely in. I think Bill Murray's in. Do we have a unanimous quorum on fried couples in Bill Murray? I don't know if we don't- You unanimous on Bill Murray yet.

Because we may end up with kind of like, you know what? Let's stick with professionals. Could be kind of the same vein of how you're playing it. I think we could vote for right couples. Like, yeah, yeah. Like we're not saying like, yes, I think so. I don't think we're saying Bill Murray sucks at golf, which is what we just put it down to with Fazio. Interesting.

Let's go back to Bill Murray. No, but we're saying he's over a pre-shoot in the game of golf for his play for his participation in golf. Okay. Well, let's come back to Bill Murray. Okay. I'm looking at this list and and I'm calculating the votes that that we've had and I'm looking for someone we can knock out. I think we can I think we can rally the votes to knock out Stadler plus others. Yes. I'll vote for that. No, I think all those guys were overrated because of their one master's victory. What was the time frame again before I vote?

Like 1960 to, you know, like 90, like 90, right before cat. 95, yeah, pre-cat. And again, before you vote, I believe the criteria was guys who won the masters in that time frame as their only career major. I mean, couples. And they also got a lot of run out of it.

Couples has gotten 20 extra years of... T.C. how long the list? I'm gonna vote yes, T.C. He's on the list. So couples is on the list. You don't get to claim couples. No, I know, but I'm saying, yeah, yeah, oh, hey, I guess you get to claim couples.

And B, like, it's helped all these guys bluff. I think that I, you have me. I'm with you. I'm a no. I'm a no. I'm a hard no. Sorry. That all these guys. Love. I think that I, you have me. I'm with you. I'm a no. I'm a no. I'm a hard no. Sorry. That's bad guys.

Those guys got more out of one win. If it would have been distilled down to one person, I think they deserve to make the short list. Their place in history on the short list has been noted. Okay. Again, I'm just trying to knock guys out. I feel like can anybody vote no with me? I'm Ben Crenshaw.

Crenshaw. Oh, possibly over appreciated in his little current career. Real quick. Two majors. Two majors. 19 career PGA Tour wins. And a thriving industry changing golf design company.

All right, going back. Going back. If he may get more credit than he's do. I want to switch it from Stadler, Charles Cudi, is the poster child. Is that it? Does that, would anybody like to change their vote? No.

No. Dude, Cudi won the Masters. That's great. That's awesome. Yeah, you made that case. You won the Cleveland Open. Sloppy Loaring. Sloppy Loaring.

Shit else. Sloppy Loaring. I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go know on Crenshaw. Do we have the votes on Crenshaw? To eliminate Crenshaw, yes. He's out. All you woke architecture, guys.

Ah, all right. I don't know who else we're knocking out. I, oh. Do we have the votes? Where do people stand on Louis Tason? I get it, if it's Schwarzenegger, what did it guess? But it's Louis, I'm voting no. I think, I think Louis is, I kind of,

I don't know, appreciate that. I'd like to nominate to eliminate Max Homa. It was fun, we got him to the short list. I would say before this year, you can make that case, but he legit has played some incredible golf this year. Yeah, but has he won? He hasn't won, but I wouldn't narrow it down to that. I think you...

He was well on his way. Yeah. Guys I appreciate it. I'm gonna, you cannot go off the horse. Well, we're talking about the history of the entire history of the game, I'm gonna vote no with you. I'm gonna go out solid. Okay.

It was fun. But the dinerboy is no. The dinerboy is well off. Bacon, with the bacon on the list. We currently have six people for four spots. Which means we need to knock out two Let's let's cement another one. I've I'm feeling a lot of support a lot of patronizing of Chi Chi Rodriguez and his entire his entire existence to we have a quorum to move him to Yeah, yeah on Chi Chi to the

Finalist yes, yes, Yes. The yes is having. I would say it's even a stronger case for AK. I would vote yes with the on AK. Yes. To cement AK. Overperishable. Yeah, I'll put AK on. AK. So on the list. So what we have left, we've got four for two.

Four for two. Current four for two situation. Louis O'Saise and Lee Lee Westwood, Bill Murray, and Dustin Johnson. I thought DJ got eliminated. Uh, not yet. Yeah, no DJ was eliminated. I thought, yeah, I thought I was just you and I that voted.

Yes, I think you're right. You're right. Three for two. Westwood, Bill Murray. So I think it's more dramatic to do one by one here. So let's, I think it was Tazins. Well, let's back into it. Can I get any more yeses for Lee Westwood?

I know I got two Firmlands. I think it was a compelling case. Westwood's on there. Westwood is on it. Hell yeah. Hell yeah. I do want to make clear that my Westwood annoyance aside for the last 15 years, I've greatly enjoyed his entire stick over the last two or three years.

I think it can't be appreciated enough that he was going to skip the players to go to a horse race. Yes, so that let the record... Great guys. No reflection of him personally. Yeah. Same with gentle Ben. I have no no ill will. I was just trying to make my case that potentially. So for the final spot on the most over appreciated golfers of all time, we have a toss up a coin flip between Louis Ustazen and

Bill Murray. Where would we like to start? I'll say Bill Murray because I just don't think overall I would say in Louis Ustazen's over appreciated. I agree. I'm voting Bill Murray, because I just don't think overall I would say in the U.S. Tazans over appreciated. I agree. Bill Murray. I'm voting Bill Murray as well. Bill Murray. Okay. I think it's the Murray habit. The Murray habit.

Yeah. That's what you get for, you know, dick to me on the range in Country Country most Charleston, Bill Murray. You guys, you guys just got bodied. I think that's, you guys are just a little vindictive. Well, yeah, they did steal our logo too for his golf collection. So that's probably, there's, there's an access all over this table to grind. I don't, I don't, I don't begrudge them that because it's an actual photograph.

Sure. So it's not like they, we're not created in our studio. I understand that, but I think they, the spirit of the law and the letter of the law are two different things. I just think a lot of their stuff stinks. That's that too. We gotta say a lot of good things about Rushmore though, it's a great movie.

I would like to say, yeah, Bill Murray, the actor, I enjoy. I have no issue with Bill Murray the actor. All right, so our final list, Fred Couples, Chi Chi Rodriguez, Anthony Kim, Lee Westwood, Bill Murray, the most over appreciated golfers. Men and golf, golfers. And I would say even for Bill Murray, the most over appreciated golfers, men and golf, golfers. And I would say even for Bill Murray and for Chi Chi, I think they're over appreciated to no fault of their own.

And what I mean by that is like, the, the, you know, to make the kids proud of Chi, it's just like they shove the Bill Murray stuff in my face. Like he's not asking for that, but he's, I think you say that with, with Fred Couples as well. I think he Yeah, I think any of these guys are asking for any of this, you know, we go back to all of fame. Like, like, like, like, how's Tommy bolt in the whole fame? You won 15 times one major. That's literally the criteria. That's that's couples. You automatically get in. That's the low love of yeah, I think something like that. Yeah, so what a disgrace

Okay, I guess that's what we're leaving. We are wrapping it at that. Thank you for listening to overappreciated players We'll be back with an interview podcast on Sunday night and some more fun stuff next week as well. Cheers It's gonna be the right club. Be the right club today. Yeah. Yeah. That's better than most. How about in? That is better than most. Better than most.

Expect anything different. Expect anything different.