No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 308: Webb Simpson

Episode Date: May 4, 2020

Webb Simpson joins for the first time, and we go deep on his golf swing, the Birdman, texting Tom Watson, his golf swing, the belly putter, and a ton more. Webb talks about how different it is trying to close out tournaments now compared to a decade ago, some of the other highlights and lowlights of his career, playing with Bubba in Ryder Cups, playing with Reed at Royal Melbourne, and what his games are like at home. Thanks a ton to Webb for the time.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yes! That is better than most. I'm not in. That is better than most. Better than most! Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No-Lang. A podcast we're going to get to our interview here shortly with Web Simpson. I think I realized in the process of preparing for this interview that I don't think I've ever heard Web Simpson speak for more than 30 seconds on any topic.

So it was good to actually get them to flesh out some thoughts and talk to them about its career. A lot of hot topic items, writer cup items, you know, when in a major, the birdman of course, we're gonna get to all that. So I'm really excited for you guys to hear this interview before we do get going. If you've exhausted your home improvement project list

or you've run out of ways, creative ways to entertain your kids. If you're wearing a groove in your indoor putting that, the folks at Odyssey have some help for you. Over the last few weeks, they've been running this thing called Home Course. They post these little mini golf hold designs on Instagram. They show a few examples and then they ask you

to recreate it in your own way at home and share your video for a chance to win some Odyssey prizes. So some of the submissions have been pretty awesome. Thomas Bjorn had a frustrating but very strong flex last week, posting himself making a putt between two actual rider cups. I don't know how he has, how he gets to keep two of them. I'd have to research that one potentially, but probably because Europe has just so many

that they've won, they don't know what to do with them. This week is the bank shot. There's already been some great entries. You can check that out on the Odyssey Golf Instagram or Odyssey Golf dot com. While you're there, you can learn more about the Odyssey 10. I've flirted with the Odyssey 10 for a while. I'm personally back to the number seven.

You can learn more about the Toulon design, which is the fastest growing milled putter on tour. Again, visit odysigolf.com. That's odysigolf.com. Here is our interview with web simpson Saturday mornings are now good times for interviews huh yeah my my worst times are now Monday Tuesday Wednesday in the morning which does used to be the best but now that's virtual school so

oh wow for five kids or how many kids are in school uh... three kids are in school our other two it's kind of tough because the three are in school, but the other two need full time attention. So, my wife's a lot smarter than me, so she's doing school. I'm the babysitter, basically. The only real way that life looks a lot different right now besides me not traveling is school at home.

But, I live in Kuala Halle, right by the golf course. And so there's still a lot to do. Right now, like, we can go in the course. The course is open. Like we can bike rides, golf cart rides. Like, so it's, we're definitely not bored. Because five kids, nine and under,

you'll never be bored. But yeah, we're doing good. I mean, I'm playing golf twice a week right now. There's there's a bunch of guys who live in Charlotte, PJ tour, corn fairy mini tours, you name it. There's a lot of guys here that are playing. So I'm still playing some, which is nice. What what are the games like at Quail? Who do you play with there? And is are there a lot of pros that play there and what kind of games do you get there? So there's there's a group of members their board members their long-time Quail Hall of Members their nickname the most Short for morons which I don't know the story behind it

But there's a game with them every day. I don't play with them I feel like I'm gonna lose all my money if I play with them They're so dialed in they'll play six or seven guys and six or seven carts even you know non-coronavirus rules But Johnson Wagner's the only other guy who's a member and quail on tour But David Coker who just won on corn fairy right before the quarantine He lives in Charlottes I've been playing a lot of golf with him and Jonathan Deonney and a few other guys who are, you know, PJ tour Latin America or just mini tours.

And so, you know, the games we've been doing these two days, 36 hole buy-in for 100 bucks and just some trash on the side. So it's been, you know, low-key, having a putt for 300 bucks is a little different than a PJ tour, but it's, you still feel the juice is a little. So that's, that's been nice. I swear you guys, when you, those putts for 300 bucks, if it involves losing 300, it's, it, has more of an effect on you than if you have a putt on the PGA tour that is the difference in 50,000. Is that fair to say? No, it's super fair to say. I can be honest and say that I've never had a putt where on the PGA tour where I've thought about money over like where I'm finishing like and I've talked to other guys they feel the same way like if you're 12 you want to make it

for a top 10 you're not thinking 150 grand or 120 grand 150 but you're right 300 dollars I feel more pressure because there's no FedEx cut points. It's just money. So you're like really thinking about it. What if you're playing with AMS at coil. What do they make you play off of? I'm floating around a plus seven right now. Do you keep a handicap? My caddy does. So he poly records all my scores because we do a guys trip every year to Eagle Point in Wellington, North Carolina, and everybody. Like it's pretty official. The games we play. So they make me have one. So probably just keeps mine. And it's like a plus eight right now. So I'm giving up seven as at the moment.

Well, what is how do you adjust in this is a, I'm not sure how relevant this is to Eddie Wood, but how do you adjust, what would you say? So you're playing quail, backties right now during a normal period of time. That golf course looks different during the tournament. What kind of, what like slope or rating adjustment in your mind, do you think it needs for like a normal PGA tour setup? What does a normal compare a normal PGA Tour setup to how a course would normally play? Yeah, so it's actually like a look,

like some parts are easier, some are harder. So one way it's easier in a Tour event is it's more firm. So the course plays a lot shorter, but with that the greens are a lot more firm and fast. So you're gonna hit shorter clubs in the greens, but you're gonna pay for it around the greens and on the greens. So like right now, old 17 at Quill,

everybody knows the Green Mile, 17 to par three, I'm hitting a five iron right now, and I'm able to get it to only release seven or eight yards. In the tournament, it might release 15 or 16 yards. And so when it gets firm, your greens actually become a lot smaller and harder to hit. So I think it's a wash, honestly. I would say the hardest time to play in Quill Hollow is in the winter because the ball's

going nowhere. They over seated in September. You're hitting a lot longer clubs in. But I think it's that kind of in between right before the tournament, it plays the easiest because it is firming out, but the greens aren't quite there yet and tournament ready When you guys got a Wilmington do you play the Wilmington municipal course ever? I used to grow it up actually really I grew up in Wilmington in the summers But we don't we just stick to we play landfall Porter's neck and eagle point

Have you played it since they read it? I think they redid it in 2014. We were there in the fall. It's awesome. It is so good. Yeah, the greens are like they're 10 out of 10 greens. I mean, it's a little scruffy. The rest of the course, I'm sure you could really you can remember that. But honestly, you know, as a golfer, all you all we really care about is good greens. Right. As long as you're not playing on mud and if the greens are good, then it's a fun course. I ran into Paul a couple times in the Florida winner series and came out the wrong end of that battle more frequently. How did you guys end up, uh, end up partnering up and what can you talk about what kind of influence he's been on your game? Yeah. So,

uh, my, my best friend growing up, William Kane, Caddy for me, my first two years on tour, and he left the Caddy world to go be a pastor in Savannah. And right about that time, Nick Watney called me because Nick and our buddies, and at the time Chad Reynolds, who Caddy's for Keegan Bradley, Chad is Caddy for Nick, and Chad and Paul happen to be best friends. And Nick goes, hey, Paul and Sean O'Hare just split up. I know William was thinking about leaving. Just give him a call. Give him a call if you want to, Cady. And it was weird, like the whole timing of it,

because Nick didn't know that my Cady William actually already decided that day to leave and go move to Savannah. So anyways, I call Paul to interview him, you know, ask him some questions. And I joke with him that by the end of the phone call I got off the phone and I looked him a life I said, well, I just got interviewed So Paul had some questions for me and he brought up a great one of his questions that kind of sold him on Us working together was he knew my Christian faith and

him on us working together was he knew my Christian faith and he had seen in sports how sometimes Christians will kind of settle and really not go after and try to be the best they can possibly be. So he just asked me what are your goals and aspirations? I said I want to be the best player that I can possibly be. And we had a great conversation and we ended up starting out January of 2011 at Sony and 2011, you know, was arguably my best year on tour. And we just hit it off. I think like-minded and faith were great friends, we're into the same stuff. And honestly, as you know, I mean, we're together seven or eight hours a day at a tournament. And so you need a great caddy, but you also need a caddy that you can get along with really well and I have that with Paul. And so it's been a great ride for nine or 10 years. And that's something I was curious about

with somebody who has the experience like he has, he caddyed for VJ Singh for, I don't know how many years you can maybe tell. Five and a half years. Five and a half you could speak to that, but it's great to have the experience of someone like that on the bag, but does that in any way also kind of add some pressure to you, right?

I mean, I've talked to someone like Bones, who obviously cared for Phil for so long. He was kind of like, yeah, it would take like, if I went back to Cading, it would take up really amazing bag for me to do it because I'm so spoiled. Did you, what was the kind of transition period like to working with Paul after he, you know, he's coming off a bag, at least in somewhat recent memory of VJs? Yeah, so I mean, he's with VJ. He's got a number of, I mean, 15 wins maybe at the time, I don't know, 13 wins. Katy for Sean O'Hare, who got to top 10 in the world.

Jerry Kelly, he got to the President's Cup team for the first time for Jerry. So yeah, all those things, I felt it. I felt nervous, but also it just felt right. I had had a decent rookie year on Torno, nine, finishing seven, the it's on the federal, I forgot, everybody left it. 2010 was kind of sophomore slump, barely kept my card. And I was kind of ready to make a leap in terms of performance.

And I knew that having a caddy like Paul is only going to be a bonus. So I think I'll let that influence me more than being nervous or feeling like I had a perform. But we had an OK West Coast swing. And then I almost won a Tampa in March with Paul. I lost by one to Gary Woodland. And it was like the more I played and the more he

catty formed the more comfortable I got with him and so that that kind of early nervousness you know having an elite caddy win away I think pretty quickly and I mean like I said earlier because we hit it off with our personality and friendship like that made it a lot easier like if we if we weren't friends off the golf course I think that would have been a little harder for me. Yeah. Well compare, you know, I remember 2011 very vividly. It felt like you were just you were there every single week. And I just want to kind of compare what it's like to be in contention now. You it felt like I was watching a totally different guy like at the at the waste management this year under the most pressure situations.

You're you're still a young guy on tour in 2011. You have an amazing season. What's it like you had the close call with Gary Woodland of the transitions and then I believe you lost in a playoff to Bubba at the Zurich and then you won later that year. But what's it like being in contention then first now? Yeah, so I think there's two types of nervousness

that I've experienced and one of them is a nervousness when you're not very confident, and it's kind of a place you don't wanna be in, and then there's another where you're very confident, but you still feel a little nervous, and it's exactly where you wanna be. And I think 2011, things were new, I'm experiencing playoffs for the first time,

how to try to close a tournament for the first time. And I feel like now, it's not like I've won a ton, but when I get in contention on a Sunday, especially on a back nine, it's right where I wanna be, and you feel the moment, and you feel that it's a big moment, but now I think of it as, man, this is exactly where I'm trying to be, and I wanna be here, I don't wanna be anywhere else.

And so, I think early on you kinda, you don't really wish it away, but you're like, kinda wanting to get out of it pretty quick. And now it's like, man, I'm settled in, this is where I belong. And so that's a good feeling now compared to how it was then. Well, is it fair to say that in 2011, you might feel more like in a situation like that,

that you have something to lose, whereas in 2018 or 2020, it's like an opportunity. It's just like, is that, is that, yeah, okay? No, that's fair to say. I mean, I haven't, I hadn't won in 2011 on the PGA Tour until August. So, each time I had a chance to win, it, there was an added pressure to get it done. And once I won, I remember thinking that it's going to be a lot easier to win the next time. And two weeks later, I'm going to play off in Boston. And I didn't feel like it was any easier to win, except for the fact that I did not have that pressure of having to win for the first time, which was a nice feeling compared to, you know, the previous experiences. Well, if you're going to tell me you didn't feel any pressure going into the

Torch Championship, I'm not going to believe you because you're in the lead of the FedEx Cup. You have a $10 million. This is the FedEx Cup is kind of new at this point. It's only maybe it's fourth or fifth year. How do you, is there any possible way to ignore what's at the end of that rope? No, I don't think so. I think for some guys, maybe it is, Rory or Tiger, where winning the FedEx Cup monetarily won't change much for them.

But for most other guys, I think it is. I think it's an amazing thing. And I think when you look at it as an opportunity, it'll help you. And 2011, again, it was still new to me. My first time in contention to win the FedEx Cup. And so I remember I tested some drivers in Atlanta. And I think my big mistake there was I hit too many drivers on Wednesday. And it threw me off a little bit. It was my own fault. I think I was

just, you know, you've seen it before. And we sometimes golfers sound insane, because I'm playing the best golf in my life, but yet I'm testing driver shafts. I think we have this sickness where we always feel like we can get better. And maybe sometimes it helps us and serves us. Other times it hurts us. And that Wednesday, I remember hitting 50 to 60 drivers.

And I just, I hit it really poorly that week when I had been hitting it really well. So as I look back, that's my big regret. And Paulie and I, we talked about it. But again, a good experience to learn from. A quick break here to check in with our friends at Precision Pro. We've talked about this. Every golfer needs a rangefinder that they can trust to know the precise distance to their target.

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That's not good, Juju. I don't know what is. So go to precisionprogolf.com. Use coupon code, no laying up at checkout for $20 off our favorite rangefinder. Swing with confidence, hit more greens with precision pro golf. Let's get back to Web Simpson. Your golf swing, it looks a little different than a lot of swings on tour. Your game is different on tour.

Is it self-taught? I mean, how did you learn the golf swing. It looks a little different than a lot of swings on tour. Your game is different. Is it self-taught? I mean, how did you learn the golf swing? So I grew up having like not a lot of technical instruction in my golf swing. Like I had a long time coach from my home club, Ted Kiegel, who was an amazing head pro, great teacher. But I loved short game. I loved to play. So anytime I was practicing, I was in a short game area. Like I just loved chipping. And so I think I developed like a lot of hands in my game. So that's why I think I've always been

a really good chipper pitcher and wedge player because I use a lot of hands. But it's also hurt me when it's come to having a technically sound golf swing. And so I think like the funny finishes, the helicopter follow-throughs, that comes from being such a feel player that it starts influencing the way it looks. And I tell people quite a lot, like not many guys curve it anymore. I think Bubba obviously is kind of in a category of a zone.

He curves the ball. It's hard to curve it now with the technology of the golf ball and the driver and even our grooves now, they're not square grooves. But all that to say, I still see shots like I'm hitting a tour ball out of the 90s. I still see curves right to left to right depending on where the pin is. And so when you see kind of a funny finish, it's probably me trying to curve it or try to help the ball. So yeah, it's kind of unique. It doesn't look that pretty, but it's kind of how I've always been. Yeah, it's interesting that the finishes are related to the ball flight.

I'm curious, is there, now I'm trying to think back at it, is there one that looks like a draw and one that looks like a fade? Do you feel like it? But do you feel like it worth? I'm just trying to piece this together. Yeah, so you'll probably never see it much with my cut swings, but it's more of a draw because it's through impact. My right hand is turning over.

I'm trying to shut the face as I go through impact. And if I have a funny finish, it's either because I turned it over too much or not enough. And I'm saving it or I'm trying to correct it after the ball exits. And so, yeah, I don't know. I would say my best, the best ball striking I have though, you'll see less of those funny finishes because, you know, I just feel like a lot of times it's me saving something that went technically wrong in the downswing and so when I'm when I'm swinging well you'll see less of it. I want to be very clear here that you're talking to a guy who lives extremely close to the Hossel and hits a disproportionate amount of shanks for Benny Shudd.

Would you say your swing in any way contributes to potentially hitting more shanks than some other tour players? That's a great question. And I actually don't know the answer. Pauli Wood, Pauli's like the swing guru for me. It's funny, the shanks, I've hit so, I'm probably leading the PJ Tour in shanks for my career.

But Pauli reminds me that when I do hit a shank that usually comes in a really good ball striking face. Right. That's what I, your own TV, when you do it usually. Yeah. Like masters, I had one. I was hitting it great around that time. 2012 was like the fall was one of my better ball striking

times. And I had a shank at the, at Cog Hill, the BMW, I shot 65 the first round, I shanked it on 18 May par, cold shank, like in the grandstands shank, and then I shanked it a few weeks later of the Ryder Cup against Ian Polter. So my most embarrassing moment for sure

on tour have been following a shank. Well, do you, I still don't understand what it is, like how it happens, you know, I feel like I'll make a golf stand, like that looks, that that felt totally fine how the hell did I hit the hosle I know why mine happens like mine happens because I have a lot of face rotation going back and so if you look it if you freeze my back swing halfway back my face will be a little more open than the average tour player and so add that mixed in with my being a hands-y player. I'm going to come into the ball, heel-leaping a lot, because I'm a drawer. And so, if that face gets too open, and my backswing doesn't complete, then I'm going

to start heeling the ball. But I got a great drill for you. All right, so you need to set up, like you're normally going to hit it, put a golf ball, like, one inch or maybe half an inch from the toe of your club and just hit like 10, 15 shots, you'll start hitting the closer to the center of the face. That's what I do when I'm healing it and it works. I've got a wear pattern on the hosel of my nine iron at this point. So I'll try anything, but I want to go ahead from to 2012, US Open, of course, your first title. The most important question I can ask about that though is, of, of course, the Birdman. Have you had any contact with the Birdman since the ceremony?

No. So Birdman, I loved it. I think he thought I was upset, but I wasn't. I thought it was a great story. Everybody wanted to ask me about it. So, you know, people think of 2012, US Open Olympic. I think they think of Birdman before anything. So he like, he didn't official apology on YouTube that somebody sent me, but he didn't need to, because I rather enjoyed it. But no, I haven't seen him. I mean, I'd love to see him come out.

I mean, especially if I was able to win another US Open, I would expect for him to be there. We've tried to get him on the podcast. He kind of flakes out. I think the redeeming quality of that was that it was for a cause that he believed in and not just somebody that was a drunken hooligan. But I got to admit, I have very few memories of that week

and I don't know if it's, you know, the highlights are scarce online. Yeah. The story lines were kind of, you know, GMAC and Fureklines were kind of G-Mac and Furek and you kind of snuck up and wanted from a television presentation perspective. But when did you at what point are you thinking about winning that golf tournament? I imagine it's probably not after 36 holes, but you had such a great weekend and kind of take us through that.

Yeah, so on Saturday when I went out, I shot two under and I went from like 29th to eighth place, I think. And so I got done and I was just excited about the round. I didn't care what place I was in. I just remember thinking, man, I played really solid smart golf today. And when I realized I was in eighth place, I'm like, wow, I moved a lot more than I thought.

And then that was kind of the first time the light bulb went off like I have a chance to win. I'm still four back, I moved a lot more than I thought. And then that was kind of the first time the light bulb went off, like I have a chance to win. I'm still four back, but as we all know, anything can happen in a US open. And I still wasn't really thinking, like, man, I have it, like on Sunday morning, I wasn't really like, I got a great chance to win that. It was just, man, it was my first time having a chance

to win a major, like I want to go out, capitalize, have a strong day, we'll see what happens. And I was two over through five and Six is another really hard hole, but I was able to make birdie on six Seven the short hole and then eight to par three and When I made the turn I'm like, okay, I know I'm only a couple back probably no matter what they're doing back there Then when I birdie ten I made like a two footer for birdie and the crowd really cheered like louder than they should for a two footer and I realized at that point,

okay, I'm probably right there. And that's when I started really having fun because I'm like, man, and honestly, to your question earlier about 2011 and kind of not wanting to be in those moments in a way, like almost being too nervous, 2012, I felt like I've won twice. I had a great year. Like, I know this is a major, I know this is new,

but I really embraced it and I really enjoyed it. Yeah, I mean, it's just the, I think it's something that only comes from experience, you know? Yeah, I do too. What do you, when you think back to that week as to what you did better than everyone else? What contributed to your win? Was your game, was that the best you've ever played in a major?

Up until that point, yes. You know what's funny is I go to Memorial two weeks prior and I shoot or I miss a cup by eight shots. I think it was six shots, eight shots. It was a terrible week. I go to the US open I had a terrible Monday Tuesday Wednesday morning like hitting it everywhere We go to the range Wednesday afternoon the far right side of the Olympic all by ourselves people are gone reps are gone

No one's inside. It's just me and Paul and I remember hitting balls for about an hour and a half and Paul found something early in that session and I started flushing it and You know I go out and I don't I don't have a great first two days. I'm just like I said I'm in like 28-29th But I think what I did on the weekend is I played the US Open Golf Course How you're supposed to play it I avoided big numbers I made the 8 to 10 flitters when I needed to to keep momentum and I just kind of kept plotting. I really didn't do anything special but you know it was just it was kind of what I needed to do

and I needed a little help from Fieryck McDowell who ever else on Sunday and they did they helped me out a little bit. If they had gone out and shot a couple under it was ball game over. And so the why Tiger's record and Jack's record is so impressive. And even Brooks, this early in his career, is that for us to play only four of these majors a year, to win, unless you blow a field away, like you gotta, there are a lot of things have to happen in your favor, like you gotta go out and play well

and play solid, but any given round as you know, because you're in golf, somebody can shoot six, seven, eight under even in a major. And I got to tell people all the time, I could have a three shot lead at Augusta, go out, play a great final round of three under. And around that golf course, somebody can touch and shoot seven, eight under. I lose. Nobody ever remembers that I finished second. But yet I played great. And so that's why I win in, these guys win in majors multiple times is even more impressive to me.

That's right, I think about fill it, 2016 it truned all the time. It was 11 shots clear of third place and didn't win. It's gotta just be absolutely, absolutely maddening. So take me through that 18th, so like for example, how, take me through that your second shot into 18, where that ball ends up, because I mean that, if that goes, if it goes a foot further left, you're on the, you're on the green and in great shape. If it goes a couple feet further right, you're may not able to get

up and down. So kind of what are some of the things that went your way on that day? That, that birdie stretch in the middle of the round, 6, 7, 8, and 10, that was kind of the main birdie burst that got me the US open, I think. And then the rest of the round is really solid. I hit, I might have hit every fairway and every green coming in except 18. So 18 for people who haven't played Olympic,

the fairway is kind of, really tight the holes only like 350 But when you lay up if you lay up down the right it kicks right if you lay up down the left it kicks left So I hit five on off the tee left center kicks left goes in the kind of First cut of rough and Mike Davis is the one responsible for this graduated rough So when the ball goes in the rough three yards you're gonna have a better lie than if you're in the rough eight yard So I was in that first cut of rough. I had a decent lie. I had nine iron and we knew that anything left of the pin was was going to be a bogey. And so we were kind of looking right center, right edge of the green, knowing

that right was going to be fine to that pin. Not easy up and down, but doable. So when I hit the shot, I was leaning because it came out of hair right, I knew it was gonna be close. And because the greens elevated, we can't see. And so you're relying on the crowd to tell you where the ball is. And the crowd kinda made this weird like moan of a noise. And I looked at Paul, I'm like, whoa, what does that mean?

Like if they're like upset, the crowd, they'll let you know it probably went in the bunker or if the clap is on the green. But this reaction, we had no idea. So we get up there and then US opens, they take all the sprinkler heads around the green, they cut out astroturf and put it over it normally. But this one was an old sprinkler head that just remained grass. They had removed the plastic. I tried to get a ruling to say, hey, because this is an old sprinkler head, do I get relief?

And he said no. So I had to play it. And Chris, this is actually funny. Nobody knows this unless you play Olympic. But when I go walk around the pin to look just to assess my chip. I noticed that if I hit this chip about 10 feet too hard and left of the pin, there's this little area of fringe and fairway that will take the ball 30 to 40 yards down the hill.

And so I'm like, holy cow. So all that maybe do is aim a little further right. It's a right to left chip. The lie was funky. I didn't really know how to hit it. I asked Paul, so what do you think I need to do here? He basically said, just hinge and unhinge really fast. No fall through it. And just kind of a little chop shot. And that's what I did. I was hoping for eight feet and it came out and it was just one of those. It comes out and you know it's going to be pretty good. It went down about four

feet. My mind wandered a little bit where it shouldn't have, you know, while I'm waiting for Nicholas Colesarts to put out, but I kind of got control of my mind and just told myself, hey, read this putt, you know, aim this putt, start it online just like you have done all week. It's another four footer. And that really helped me kind of regain focus. It was a left-edge putt and when it went in It was a big sigh relief, but I knew I still had 20 minutes to wait for the guys behind me You're looking back at those highlights your body type is a little different now

Then what then what what happened like how did you how did you what what talk about that progress? Oh, man Yeah, I was I'm the same weight now, but I think I look different now. But that was my soft drink days. I used to drink a lot of soda like four or five a day. Oh yeah. No offense to the, to the, all the soda manufacturers, but that's, that was the main contributor.

So yeah, my face was a bit more round then. And so you go that, that win is gonna help you get on the Ryder Cup team, 2012. You guys come out at Medina, you and Bubba are paired up and those, I was there those first couple of days, man, that was just a clinic. I mean, it was, you guys were killing it, it was so fun to watch.

Do you, what do you, when I mentioned the 2012 Ryder Cup, do you look back with fond memories of your first Ryder Cup and playing well or do you remember what happens on Sunday? Josh, I remember both. I mean, it's a very, of all the team events I've played, it's probably the most vivid team event.

And it's, you know, it was, eight years ago. Davis was an amazing captain all week. We had Michael Jordan come in, give us a free cup pub pub speech which was amazing. So we had a 10-6 lead we're feeling great we're playing great. Our whole team is incredibly confident when we go to bed Saturday night and Davis he did an amazing job even Saturday night you know short and sweet told us to keep doing what we're doing and you know, he's sent out I think he kind of front loaded it and back loaded it and you know, he's I've heard him say before like he wishes he did done stuff differently but I think he did as as best he knew he could do in that moment and

so it was humiliating I think to lose a lead like that in my first rider cup and honestly we're just as sad after that we didn't win for Davis as anything because he's a goon tour that I think you can say this only about a few guys that everyone loves Davis. And everyone's got huge respect for him, his career, you name it. And so that was hard, but being my first rider cup, I experienced things that I've never experienced in the game with golf. Like, the most nervous you'll ever be as a golfer, I'm convinced, is in a rider cup. But the most fun you'll ever have as

a golfer, I think, is winning a point in the rider cup. I mean, it is so fun. You're winning it for your country, your team. And what's cool, Chris Chris is like PJ tour players like everybody's got I don't want to say ego, but everybody's got confidence like everybody walks around these tournaments They believe in themselves and that's probably why they made it the PJ tour and that's great But these team events all that goes away and like You know everybody talks about you play for your team play for your country play for each other But it's kind of cool to experience guys in a team environment because team, play for your country, play for each other, but it's kind of cool to experience guys in a team environment because all that, all the self accomplishments goes away for that few days of golf, which is really fun to experience.

That's interesting. Yeah, it's like, yeah, you, you, you can dominate each other, you know, week and week out, but now you owe it to the rest of the team to play what, play good golf this week. Exactly. And it kind of just humbles you at least a little bit. It does. Yeah, you forget about yourself. Well, on a, on a different topic here, I wanted to make sure we got to this because I know there's a lot to cover with it. But the progress, the timeline of the

anchor band. And I want to know when you kind of first heard Rumblings, when you, what your reaction was when the ruling came out, personally, it's like the ball's going very, very far and this did not feel like a huge priority item. Did you guys feel that there was a target on the backs of guys that were anchoring or using a long putter, and did you feel it was necessary? What was your initial reaction to it? Yeah, I think it was, I felt like it was targeted because you get kicking Bradley winning the PJ championship. And then I win the US Open and then RDL's wins the British Open and then Adam Scott wins the Masters all with those style

putters. So I think we did feel like it was targeted and we didn't feel like the evidence was there to support a band because I think evidence would say if you look at the top 30 putters on the PJ tour, how many guys use Anchor put? And I don't even know if any of us were in the top 30 at the time. I don't know how it happened. My guess is the governing bodies got together. Maybe they didn't like that these these types of putters that guys were using when in their tournaments. Maybe they didn't like that. You know we have seen that I think that they can sometimes be old school in their thinking, wanting the game to be the way it was 20, 40, 50 years ago, when the

game's evolving. I mean, Jack Nicholas, nobody talks about this distance report, that Jack Nicholas would have flown Ben Hogan by 30 yards. And so Jack Nicholas's technology was a lot better than Ben Hogan's, but I don't remember hearing problems then when he was playing and dominating. And so I just, my whole thing with these governing bodies is, I want there to be more emphasis from PJ Tour players and rules officials when these decisions are being made. I really do, and I don't feel like our opinions have been validated by these governing bodies and our rules officials are seeing PJ tour tournaments 45 weeks a year and so they know better than anybody what needs to be happening and I don't feel like their voice is loud enough to be honest.

Well when did you start with the belly putter and what what does it do for you? I got it I've tried it it does nothing for me but but what it clearly does things for you know some some people and they they love it What did it do for you and how long did you use it? so I went to wake in 04 wake forest fresh from here and I go to pine hers for Thanksgiving break and I'm going out to play with my dad and At the time like I had grown up being a great putter But I'd become a very streaky putter.

And in the pro shop there at Country Club in North Carolina and Pinehurst, they had a big ping-billy putter. And I putted it to one of those little things that spits the ball back out. And I'm like, man, this thing feels amazing. Like, it feels awkward, but like, I like it. And so I asked the guys in the shop, I said, hey, can I take this out for nine holes? They said, sure. Well, I go out for nine holes and I made everything and I ended up buying it and I went back to wake. And honestly, like my teammates kind of made fun of me, like, why are you using a belly

putter? Like, it wasn't that common in 04, but I started putting a lot more consistently. You know, I don't know how different it made my stroke, but for no other reason than I became more confident, I switched for good. Then I used that same putter that I bought in that pro shop for 11 years until it was banned. I've had anxiety in the past, like I've struggled with that with putting. When I switched to the short putter, which was I switched to the end of 14.

So Ryder Cup 2014 at Glen Eagles we're packing up our locker after we lost and Paulie says hey we're gonna done not Phoenix in a couple weeks or whatever a couple months in November. Why don't we go ahead and switch the short putter get a year under our belt that way we're not the focus come January 1 2016 when it's gonna become illegal and we just go ahead and start working with it. And I said great. So, Dunlop Phoenix 2014 was my first professional tournament, the short putter. And my first tournament was short putter in like 12 years. And so, it was a struggle. I mean, those first few months were pretty good, but then it got bad. And

then, you know, I was one of the worst putters on the PJ tour for two years. Well what is the struggle? What's the struggle? I mean are you just is it face path? Is it just a pure confidence issue? What is it? What changes in you from the belly putter to the short putter? Well I think my stroke with the belly putter was naturally better for for whatever reason mechanically it just was better and so when I went to the short putter up and my putting got really bad I realized okay. I don't know anything about putting like I know nothing about putting I'm gonna become a student of putting so I started talking to guys who are great putters like grant badly great Chalmers and I started trying to figure out what they do

Well and why do they do it. Because the, I mean, Brent Stroke looks a lot different than Air Battleies. But they must do some things very similarly. So I started learning how do they put, how am I going to put and put well. And that led me to really researching the best putty method for me. And once I found the arm lock lock I realized my stroke is better my aim is better. I started a line and 2016 is when I switched to the arm lock putter and

Honestly, Chris like I got to a point with putting where I never thought if you tell me hey You're gonna become one of the best putters in the PJ tour. I Would have said you're crazy, but I've had two years now where I've been like, you know, top 10 in Struxy and putting. And so I'm just amazed that, you know, that's happened. Well, you went from one 74th in 2015, one 77th in 16 to 5th in 18 and 11th in 19. That's that's that's a that doesn't get talked about enough is not only like you're putting better now. I was a say I guess is is's not only like you're putting better now.

I was a say, I guess is, is it safe to say you're putting better now with arm lock than you were, even with the belly putter? Yeah, I mean, I was never, I was never a great putter with the belly putter. I was always like 30th to maybe 80th. So I call it average. But yeah, the arm lock putter. I mean, I, I thank God all the time for giving me a couple years. I think the other thing that I'm learning too is like, golf is a funny game. And

when you go through struggle, you realize that golf is very fleeting and right when you think you're going to be at the top of your game for a while. It seems like inevitably you'll hit another speed bump or two. And so I've learned from the struggle to appreciate the good play knowing it's not gonna last forever. I want it to last for a while, but hey, I'm gonna enjoy it while I can and just be thankful for it.

A couple of good years of putting. Hopefully it keeps up. Well, when you're struggling with putting in 15, 16, does it bleed into other parts of your game? Does it add a ton more pressure to other parts of your game? And it just kind of felt like for at least a period of time that you kind of became a forgotten man on tour. Does that have any kind of psychological effect on you?

Yeah, I mean, I think when you go from making the team events from 2011 to 2014 and the tour championship each year to no team events, no Atlanta, you feel it. I mean, you question what you're doing. Motivation is actually harder. It's harder to be motivated when you're not playing well. But thanks to my boss strikes during those couple of years, I was really solid and was able to keep me, at least competing into the playoffs.

But there was many a dark night where I thought, hey, if I don't figure out this putting, I'm never gonna be able to really compete again on the tour like I want to. But my dad, I mean, he was the biggest influencer in my life in the game of golf. And from day one of golf, his one of his biggest things he taught me

and over and over was to never quit and never give up. I mean, I remember asking him when I was like 10 years old, I'm like, Hey, what if I shoot 50 on the front nine of a golf tournament? Like, do I have to go play the bat? And he's like, I don't care if you shoot a hundred on the front nine. You got to finish around and turn your scorecard unless you're hurt or sick. And so he, you know, he got a Louis body dementia at the end of his life. And so through my struggle, we weren't able to talk a ton about putting. But man, I heard his voice louder and clearer than ever through those dark times. I'm just, you know, don't throw in the towel.

That's never even an option. You got to keep going and you got to keep trying to figure out something. It'll turn around at some point. So, my dad was a huge help during that time, even though we weren't like talking about it a lot. Well, what ended up happening to the actual belly butter that you, the pink belly butter? Yeah, so it's funny. So back to Dunlop Phoenix, I got a little nervous on the way to, or the day before I was supposed to leave

for Tokyo. And I call Paul and my headbutt. Let's just go one more term with the belly putter. I'll switch after Dunlop Phoenix going into, you know, the first term in January, Sony Open. He's like, buddy, I really think we should take the short putter. I think we start working with it now. And I hung up the phone and Paul, I thought about it, talked to my wife for a second, and

then I saw my golf bag in the garage. And something just came over me. Chris, I literally walk over to the bag and I snap the belly putter over my knee. Like, it was the most non-emotional club snap in the history of club snaps. I wasn't mad. I wasn't frustrated I just had a moment where I'm like, hey if I don't break this putter then I'm not switching and I snapped it and I'm walking to the trash can to throw it away and my wife's like sweetie That putter's been so good to you. You need to save it like at least put it in the trophy case I'm like you're right. So it's since in my trophy case now in two pieces. But I felt like it was one of those moments in my life

where I had to do something drastic in order to change. And yeah, so I still have it, but it's not usable. What did the 2018 players feel like? I mean, you'd had a lot of success because kind of since you switched to the arm lock, but I mean, you'd had a lot of success kind of since you switched to the arm lock, but I mean, that was dominant. That was that was just felt like a statement of some kind of like I'm I'm back here. I am. What did what did that win really feel like after all you'd kind of been through? That win was the most meaningful win of all of them because it had been four and a half

years since I won because my punting putting struggles and because we lost my dad in 2017 in November and so you know fast-forward six seven months I I'm at the you know our kind of fifth major Polly my caddy Polly grew up there It's a home tournament for him like you put all that together and it's Mother's Day. You know, my wife and I, she's a mom of five. And my mom lost, you know, obviously her husband. And so there's just, there's so much emotional pieces

to that Sunday. And that's why, you know, like I said with putty, I didn't know if I would ever win again. I doubted it like I never gave up on the fact that I could win But I had serious doubt and so that that that experience of shooting 63 on Friday with a double and then you know Seven shot league going to Sunday. It was kind of one of those storybook Weeks that you dream about as a kid and it was it was a relief It kind of felt like the first win again getting the monkey off your back of winning that you know that long drought of four and a half years Finally was over is coming into a round with a seven shot lead different nerve-wires than coming in with a one or two shot lead and how so if so Yeah, it is different

You can't blow a seven shot lead. That's exactly the thing. If you have a one shot lead and you lose, well, people don't really care and they'll forget about it. If you have a seven shot lead, you will long be remembered. But yeah, starting out my game plan was I'm going to go out and I'm going to play the same golf I've been playing. And you know, my, my, when I was 11 under on Friday, I didn't think I wasn't trying to play aggressive it just happened that way And so I reminded myself on Sunday ham. Let go play the same golf pretty conservative, you know for tour averages

I am I had a good start. I was one under through seven and when I birdied seven That was my first birdie that was kind of a sigh of relief like going into the middle part of the round. So very different experience than anything I had played him before, but a lot harder than I had thought it'd be. Well, I just remember it as a big American golf fan going into France in the fall of 2018 with a completely different confidence level in you in that team event. That golf course was a great, great fit to you. What did you, when you first saw the golf national, what did you, what did you think and how that fit to your game? Yeah, I loved it. I realized, you know, I had heard from Justin Thomas who played in the French Open that it was really hard, really tight. And so I just, I remember thinking,

okay, it sounds like a good golf course for me We get there and the rough on both sides they mode it Towards us on the tea so everything was into the grain. It's our else man. This is like a US open like it's tight And if you hit in the rough, it's incredibly penal. I mean, this is how hard it was the tent hole there I hit it in the right rough playing with Bubba Bubba's arguably our greatest there. I hit it in the right rough playing with Bubba. Bubba's arguably our greatest rough player on the PJ tour. With how steep his shaft comes down, how much power he has, he can literally hit it out of any lie. And we had 115 yards to the hole and he pulled out a seven wood. Like he and and he hit like an amazing shot just over the grain. But that's how tall the rough was and

So yeah going into it I'd come off a good weekend at land. I'll finish fourth and I was confident I actually didn't it's kind of us up and I actually had a terrible Tuesday Wednesday Thursday practice Bob and I didn't play we played okay against macro and polter, but then against Norton and Sergio We played really well and and Bob and Polter, but then against Norton and Sergio, we played really well. And Bother is kind of a dream alternate shot partner. He gets talked a lot about in the forebomb

because everybody thinks like he's long, he makes bunch of parties, but alternate shot, he's an amazing partner because if you drive him in the rough, like he's super comfortable there. And so you don't feel pressure. And then lag putting, he's the greatest lag putter on tour. So you're never gonna have three or four footers playing with Bubba.

So I love playing with him in ultra shot. Well, I was gonna say, Bubba's got, you know, I know he's good friend of yours and he's got to definitely say to say a different personality and it seems like you guys are, when you are on the same teams together that it's just a foregone conclusion that you're gonna play together.

Is that something you or he asks for? And is it, you know, do you guys feel like that's going to be a thing continuing going forward? I think so. I mean, he's arguably my closest friend on the PGA tour. And so that helps in these rider cups, these high intensity, high emotional environments. You need to be with someone that you're comfortable with. And that seems obvious. But when you're out there and you're playing with a friend like it's it feels great and I do think Bubba and I's games although they're so

different they compliment each other well because neither of us are that opinionated on like what holds we tell from I mean France, Madina, even Royal Melbourne, it was just kind of we talked about it and like, if there was one hole we didn't like, you know, the other one of us would take that those holes. And so, we're comfortable with each other and we have, like, he makes me laugh. I'm probably too serious. He's probably too funny and we kind of level each other out. And so, I think that's why our record, I would say, is not great, but it's not bad. It's decent. And so we're a pretty good team, I think.

Well, we always joke that it seems like you get the babysitting roles in some of these events. And so fast forwarding to the 2019 Presidents Cup, when did you learn you were going to get paired with Patrick Reed? This is again, extremely shortly after the incident that happened in the Bahamas. And did you have any idea what that kind of fan reaction was going to be like? So usually captains will get you to see in like a short list of guys that you want to play

with. They take that information and they try to figure out kind of the practice rounds of the pods who guys might play with. And they try to let us know as much as they can. Hey, these are the guys you'll probably play with. So Patrick, he was on my short list. He and I play the same golf ball. Patrick, I would say of all the guys on tour who play most similar to me, I would say is Patrick Reed. We shape it the same. We, we just see the game from the same lens.

I just thought man, I'll turn a shot. I want to play with Patrick. So we actually decided on Tuesday, we had a conversation. Tuesday of Bahamas, that is that we're is, that we'd love to play together. I mean, we talked about it and we basically said, hey, let's both tell Tiger, we want to play together in Australia. And so we did, and so we had to understand and go in that we were going to be paired together.

We go out in the practice rounds, we had a great couple of days together. We're playing matches and we just felt like we got the right holes. He's going off one, I'm going off two, or he's going off odds, I'm going off evens. And we just felt dialed in. Now the fan reaction was way more than I anticipated. I knew it was going to be a little bit rough, but I did not know it was going to be that rough.

And so honestly, I know we were on three, but we go out of the first match, we played really nice. We just got beat. The second match, all sort of shot, was our best match to the entire week. We got beat by a leash from an answer. And what's crazy is, you never know these team events, are you gonna go against the team that plays great,

or okay, or flat, and that day we just got beat. So we go into the team room, we talk to Tiger and the captains, they're like, hey, what do y'all want to do tomorrow? And they, the reason they're asking us because they looked at our scorecard, they know we're playing well, even though we were open to, and they just want to see like, what do we want to go out again together? And I said, 100%. Like, I want to go out.

Like, I don't think we're going to get beat three times because we're playing great. Well, we go out and that was our worst match. We may one bird, we may one birdie between us. So anybody's going to beat us. So it is just unfortunate like to end that way with a guy that I really wanted to play with who we were playing great, but we just, you know,

oh and three. That doesn't matter how good you play, we're over three. Well, that's the thing about the team matches is we don't get to see enough of the matches at home to know how great people are playing. We just see three down and we say, Oh, God, how can they put these guys back out there and all that? So I'm sure there definitely is some nuance to it. You spoke out like there was, you guys didn't interview together afterwards. And and got to just spoke out against some of the heckling he was receiving.

You mentioned it being undeserved. You guys were in such a crazy, uninviable position that week of being a teammate of somebody that was under a huge amount of scorn. But as a fellow professional, did you got did you have an issue at all with what happened in the Bahamas? Again, I know it's a different thing for having to be a teammate with the guy the next week, but as a, as a professional, if that happened in any other time period, did that bother you at all? You know, when things like that happen, I always try to give the player the benefit of the doubt. Like knowing that cameras are everywhere, I try to just be fair and say, Hey, listen, whatever happened that's between you and the guys you're playing with and, you know, the rules official.

And he's going to assess what he thinks and the rules official looked at it and thought, you know, there needs to be a penalty. But I mean, I know Patrick Reed, I consider him a friend of mine. And so if I'm in that situation, here's how I'll say it. If I'm in that situation, and something happens, where something looks like something went wrong, I want other guys to give me the benefit of the doubt if I say that my intention was not to do that. And that's why we have rules. I mean, he stated his intentions were not to improve the lie. The rules official assessed the penalty and that was that. And so that's, you know, the

way the game is and we're going to see situations that And so that's, you know, it's the way the game is and we're gonna we're gonna see situations that are hard to determine, you know, what the right thing is or isn't to do. But yeah, I mean my opinion of Patrick Reed did not change, you know, I still consider him a friend. What's it like? You've played on a lot of teams, you know, with a lot of different captains. What's it like playing for Tiger-freaking Woods in the president's Cup at Royal Melbert? It was a dream. I mean, honestly, all week, I kept thinking, you know, tell myself as a kid, if I had told,

somebody told me as a kid that I get to play in a president's Cup captain by the greatest player of all time, I would have said, man, that sounds amazing. And it was. I mean, he was an incredible captain He said just enough and not too much in the team rooms You could tell as a captain how much he cared about us and he cared about winning and nothing surprised me that week

except I mean I was honestly surprised like How involved he was like I knew he would be involved, but man, he, I'd never seen him as happy as he was on Sunday when we won. I mean, that was, and I remember even talking to Mark Steinberg, and Mark, I mean, I told Mark I said, Mark, man, I'd never seen Tiger smile that big. And Mark just kind of said, yeah, I know. I mean, he's as happy as I've seen him. So I think it was good to be around Tiger that week. He played amazing golf, 3-0.

And that week, it did not look good for us all week, but we were just had a special Sunday, but it was weird. I had this looking back. I never, none of us ever really panicked. And I never really thought, we're gonna lose the presents cup. It was kinda that quiet, like, calm, they're like, hey, I think we're gonna play really well tomorrow.

And we did. Well, you could just see as the week went along, how much better you guys got at playing that golf course. It looked like you guys got punched in the face by it a little bit early in the week. There was jet lag, there was just a lot going on with it. And it was day by day, it was like, okay, they're figuring out how to get to some of these pins

and how to chart around this place. And by that final day, it was like, okay, here they come, here come the floodgates. Yeah, yeah, and I mean, after the presence, I actually realized how much we had to win on Sunday. And I was kind of surprised, because going into it, I didn't really think about how many matches we got to win. I was trying to just stay in my match,

but looking back, I'm like, man, we had to do a lot of work on Sunday more than maybe I thought. And maybe that was good, I didn't know that. Well, there's a couple more things I got to shoehorn in here before we go. I skipped past 2014 Ryder Cup. We, so a lot was made out of you basically, sending text messages to Tom Watson

that influenced the final decision of that. Was that how well reported was all of that and was it accurate and how how how did that all actually play out? So I wanted to make the team so bad. I mean, I always do. I want to make these team events and I was sitting there one day and I thought like if it comes down to it and he he, Tom's trying to decide between me and another guy, I at least want him to know how bad I wanna make this team. The sour taste left in my mouth in 2012, losing that rider cup, I wanted to play another one so badly. And so I just thought, hey, it can't hurt. I mean, he's not gonna pick the other guy because I've texted him that I wanna be on the team.

So, it can't hurt. So I texted him and I just said, man, listen, I want to be on that team. I know you're going to make the best decision for the team, but I really want to be on it. And I don't know how much it really did influence them, but I thought if I'm the captain and I got a text from a player telling me how bad they want to be on the team,

I wouldn't see it as a negative. I would see it as man who really wants to play for America. Last thing, before you go, there was a video circulating before the 2018 Ryder Cup that I believe you're familiar with. At least your family was familiar with about the commentary on your appearance as you walked off the plane.

Do you know what I'm talking about? No. Oh, oh yeah, I know what you're talking about. Yeah. That's my future sister-in-law that made that video, by the way. No way. Yeah, my mom, she made my mom really happy. So you can tell her my mom's a big fan of her. And I think they actually connected. I think my mom knows her mom.

They did. They definitely did. And I had to make sure I asked you about that. So yeah, my mom's a proud mom. She, anytime somebody says something good about me, she thinks that they're her best friend. she loves them and anytime somebody says something negative She tries to like take up for me, which is funny But I said mom they're gonna be people always saying good and bad as long as I'm you know in the public right

So it's alright right well Hey, man, appreciate you taking the time on a Saturday morning and this was absolutely awesome really appreciate it They've got a great time the listeners are gonna love it. Yeah, thanks for having me Chris I appreciate it buddy anytime. Cheers. All right Be the right club today That's better than most That is better than most. How about him? That is better than most.

Better than most.