No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 309: 5 Random Topics, Show and Tell Style

Episode Date: May 6, 2020

We each went our separate ways, researched a topic we wanted to talk about, and presented it to the group, show and tell style. Neil tackled Bryson's alarming weight gain, DJ takes us on a history tour of Pebble Beach, Soly goes deep on the OWGR, Tron explores future possibilities for the European Tour, and Big Randy tells us about the 2010 Crystal Downs Club Championship.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yes. That is better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No-Lang Up Podcast. We are going to be going through and doing a bit of a show and tell in today's episode. We each brought some topics that we're going to discuss. We're going to go around the horn and present those topics to

to the group. Neil is here. Welcome. Thank you, Sally. Happy to be here. T.C. is here. Greetings. The big guys here. Hello, good morning. DJ Pie. Hi. How are you? Before we do get going, we're also going to do a very rapid fire show and tell version of our favorite Calaway products or stories. Any shout out to any Callaway product you wanna do, first thing that came to mind for me, the Odyssey O work seven putter, it's not new, it is an old one, I've flirted with some other ones, but she is my baby and I love her and we have had a great relationship this year.

What's her name? She doesn't have a name, okay. It's a putter, you look at that name. It's disgusting. She's like that, that, well, she goes to a different school. Yeah, she's, she's, she lives in Canada. You guys wouldn't know her. DJ, what do you got?

First thing that comes to mind for me is, on the content side, the video we did with Kevin Napier, the truck driver, looked that up on our YouTube channel, I believe it's just called the driver. Part of the reason we love Calaway, they hire great people, they have, they open their world to us and show us kind of what What they're doing behind the scenes on the PJ tour and

That's one of my favorite pieces. I think we've ever done big guy. I'll shout out to Maverick driver. I don't know if I can shout it out enough it's been Sensational piece of equipment for me and I feel more comfortable and confident off the tee than I ever have. TC. I'm gonna go across the pond, not the pond you're thinking of. We're going to Japan. My friends at Calaway, Japan. The lake.

They're my friends. I don't know if I'm their friend. I don't think they know who I am or that I'm at all affiliated with them. So I've gotten a lot of my stuff from Curtis Luck, but they have some of the most outrageous pieces of clothing and attire. I think you can ever dream off. So thank you for making colorful. Neil, I'm going to shout out Quater Shoes. I guess kind of a sub-brand of Travis Matthew, but all they're rolling up into Callaway. I've struggled with golf shoes and blisters and the ringer shoes and the money makers. Both golf shoes are awesome,

and I would highly recommend them, and they have kind of changed my perspective on the value of having golf shoes. Instead of just wearing basketball shoes out there. A lot of comments in the Instagram asking about your guys shoes. Yes, for you and DJ, I had the Quater. They're super comfortable. No list of doors.

Absolutely. I feel locked in, I feel athletic, I feel lean, your guys shoes yesterday. You and DJ had the Quaterer. They're super comfortable. No list of doors. Absolutely. I feel locked in. I feel athletic. I feel lean. I feel mean, baby. We are going to start this off by talking about Tron Star Wars tweet. Yeah.

I don't think there's anything to talk about. Like I wasn't trying to change anybody's mind. Swoop in and say this. It was a refreshing take. I loved it. DJ didn't sleep last night. No, well, listen, I'm not going ride for anything post really like 1998, but I thought it was a cheap shot in a blanket statement and just shock Jack out of Tron.

I wasn't trying to change him when he's mind. It doesn't sound like Tron at all. No, I love the replies. We're like, God, it's good to have the old Tron back. It's good to see your fastball again, man. So you see what you might need to be rebranded is the contrarian way. That's a good one.

It wasn't even meant as a contrarian take because I feel like there's a big backlash again. There's an undercurrent, a silent majority against Star Wars that thinks it stinks. Well, it's cool of you to speak for that. For that. Does May the fourth be with you?

All that, does that stink? Of course. Do them all the brand. Well, that was brought in it. That was brought it up. but that's where I'm saying you got to have more nuance in your discussion you can't just say this stinks period that is this whole brand he's allowed to do that it that is his right to do that it is but then he you

know he's gonna have some people pushing back on I started the I started the discussion you know tron's not at this best unless he's in the corner just punch it out against the mob kill hell throw in the sock the Pop-Oms out. The Kill House is built brick by brick by this stinks tweets from my truck. So I think the best reply I got was that, it was the embodiment of that, Jiff,

the how could you say something so brave? It's so controversial. I think we're starting to get dialed. Yeah, by take on that would be like, it's just, it's dated. And if you look at it from this lens, if you dove in now, it's like, wow, this is kind of dumb, but like at the time it was probably. And also hard when it's, you know, every what, four years, it's just shoved on your throat once, like, like very violently.

Was it an excellent trilogy for sure? Do we need four trilogies of the same story? Probably not. No, probably not. It's just like something that becomes popular. That's possible. The action figures. Has no chance to do anything bold

with the next one. Exactly, that's what it is. It has to be so safe. And I can. Quick shout out to Ryan Johnson, who was trying to blow up the whole thing with the last trilogy, and then they had fluffer JJ Abrams come back in and like, read, undo all of his stuff.

I told you to get everything that it's provided to. It's like the NASA program, all the technology that's come from that, all the technology that's come from Star Wars, as far as special effects and CGI and all that. Randy, what's your read on all this, even something yet? I've never from Star Wars is for us, special effects and CGI and all that. Randy, what's your read on all this? You haven't seen anything yet. I've never seen a Star Wars in my life, so.

That makes sense. Never seen a Star Wars. Shout out the strap, bless Hell Yes. No opinions. That no opinion. All right, let's get going on, I would say today's topic, but we don't know what today's topic is, but we do know that Neil's gonna start us off,

so you have the mic, you have 15 minutes, or however much time as you want, really, to teach us about something. Tell us about something. What do you want to talk about? Well, first, thanks for having me, guys. It's a pleasure to be here in your company. I would like to talk about Bryson Deschambo, and specifically his wake in, his fitness.

The thick boy. Yeah, I've just been, I've been following from a distance and so I played college football and I, in between my, just personally, like my perspective on it, in between my freshman and sophomore year, I think I gained 20 pounds and in between my sophomore and junior year, I gained like another 15. So I was part of the thick boys there for a little while. All healthy weight or something. Yeah, like just, you know, I was deep in the squat rack,

not skipping leg day, dead lifts, just trying to gain weight for football, right? And like over the years as I've gotten out of football, I've now lost probably since my those days, 25 pounds. And pretty much every pound of loss that felt better. Like physically better. And it's helped my mobility. I I felt better. Like physically better. And it's helped my mobility. I think it's helped my golf game.

I just, I sleep better. Like I don't wake up and feel like I got hit by a train. And during football, I mean, a lot of feeling like you got hit by a train was probably because I was running into people. But I also think it's because, you know, your frame is only supposed to handle so much weight, right? So, I'm just curious what he's thinking.

And I don't want to just blanket and be like, this guy's an idiot. So, I wanted to actually do a little research and see what's the thought process here from Bryson. So, my source is some gold digest. Before we get started, it's worth pointing out Neil has shaved all his hair. He's got a very kind of, you kind of have like the bodybuilder look going back on now. Yeah, but like with 25 pounds less, right, well maybe you're on the upswing though. About 25 pounds less.

I know you've been hitting the floor. Oh, it was 205. What do you weigh now, 180? Well, I weigh, well, 188. So 20 pounds less, right? Seven, seven, seven. I'm just, I'm setting the table for, 1805, not a visual medium.

I'm trying to help the people out. You've been out in the garage gym, you've been, you know. Yeah, but doing a lot of body weight work. Like I haven't lifted a free weight other than maybe a dumbbell in, I don't know, three or four years, and I don't really want to. But I like that, mobility is in. Yeah, for sure, for sure.

And well, I feel like I'm gonna touch a weight. My, I think after doing this, my take away was range mobility is definitely in, but strength is in and mass is out. And Bryson is just, as he tends to do, going completely the opposite. I mean, all right, so first off, my source is golf.js, golf.com articles, they're eating this shit. I just wanna say that.

Well, this is clickbait nation, okay. I wanna say mass, using the word mass is excellent with Bryson, with the physics. Yeah, maybe it's a mass time No, it's a math. I think it really is some of his quotes are like he's and and we'll get to start are you setting baselines for us? Like pre waking like yeah, yeah, yeah, it was a sense. Yeah, okay, so The golf calm golf digest as I said they're loving the stuff muscle activation techniques website So this is the guy's working working with Greg Roscoff. He's been calling him out.

Guy seems like he's got a pretty interesting hashtag process going. So I dove into his stuff a little bit. Bryson's Instagram is probably the primary source. And then I want to start off though, oh yeah, Twitch, but that's, he kind of reposes Twitch stuff. And then a recent bro Bible article, which is what I want to start with.

Quote, even the extremely casual golf fan out there knows Bryson D. Shambo has been bulking up over the past year or so. The 26 year old has been very vocal about the fact that he's transforming his body into what is essentially a human tank. End quote. So as of two weeks ago,

Bryson weighed in at 239 pounds up from 195 pounds in late 2019. Jesus. And he says 270 is not out of the realm of positive. I will be the first to admit when he when he said, Hey, I'm going to gain 40 pounds. I think was the initial thing, not to yeah, I'm to you here, but that I was like, that's absurd. Which, because he said he was gonna do it all in this time off. I'm gonna do it in like the six weeks while off. I'm gonna put on a set of things. He's the biggest and something else.

It was before the president's cut. Yeah. So, how tall was Guy Izzy? I believe he's six too. Like he's kind of a unit. Yeah, he's a, he's a, yeah. In person, he looks, he's tall. I mean, he's got a nice frame. Yes. So can

he carry that weight? I would say, I mean, once you start getting up in the 240 range, like sheesh, I mean, you know, 225. Sure. And to me, there's a little bit of more is not always better here. Like, you know, why not gain 10 to 15 pounds, but when you look at them in these pictures, I mean, he just looks, he looks top heavy, he looks off balance, but that's all, you know, from the casual eye from a distance. So he's going after the Laurent Landry bulk. Now he's chasing, I think the key, the key here is he's, he, what he's doing is chasing distance, right? So, it sounds like he's chasing ball speed. Yeah, he's he what he's doing is chasing distance right so uh it sounds like he's chasing ball speed yeah chase ball speed so he's putting it um he's put on weight uh according to the bro Bible article again quote he's put on weight and was leading the pga tour averaging

321 yards off the tee before the sports world hit pause so he's gained some yardage off the tee and just last, he filmed himself on Twitch, shout out to TC, and Instagram with a 203 mile per hour ball speed. And he did it two times in a row. Now, when I watched that, it looked like a world-long drive champion swing. And it didn't look healthy, and it looked like, dude, you're just gonna get, you're gonna hurt yourself, right?

I will say before the sports world shut down, T5 at the Genesis, 2nd, Solo 2nd in Mexico, and Solo 4th at Arnold Palmer. For sure. No, no. And that's why I'm so into something. I think it's all into something. I'm like, what's going on here? And then a quote from Bryson from Golf.com, I'm moving into unprecedented territory when it comes to the PGA tour. And he thinks that like 210 miles an hour of ball speed is like, you know, on the horizon.

What a just a complete middle finger to governing bodies and professional golf, this is, of like, yeah, I figured, this is the cheat code. Like I just got to bulk up and swing really hard. Like there's no punishment for this. I don't think he's wrong. I don't think he, no, I'd agree. Well, it's like some of the golf books you read

where it's like, the key is distant. Like if you have the opportunity to hit this fairway and it goes through to the whole. Just get a close to the hole. The rough doesn't matter. Just bomb it, right? And he's just, you know, he's playing the numbers. So, I feel like something like,

not that this is gonna happen overnight, like soon, but a governing body or the tour or the setup teams or whatever feels like they can kind of flip a switch to neutralize this. Do they have the balls too? Right, but you know what I mean? Just as far as, okay, now that we're growing the rough out to ass and on levels or what.

That's a tour rule, you can't grow it higher than ball a ball for restrooms. Because you have a restrooms and all that. How right, right, right, I didn't know that. Yeah, so, but yeah, gosh, it's like, I know that the distance report recently came out and that they're getting ready to address this stuff, hopefully, but what a just complete gaming of the system.

I think it all comes back to the ball spinning, right? Like, regardless of how far it goes, it's cool, I can go 400 yards, but if it spins miles offline, then that's something where, you know, like with JT and Ricky playing bull otters the other day and saying God like that was freaking hard. Well it's it's more I think it's spinning in the combination of 460 cc like

you're just not gonna miss hit a driver bad enough. Which swinging it you know 100 whatever miles an hour and ball speed it you know even 190 with the persimmon drivers. A lot different than or even a, you know, a titanium driver or a carbon fiber driver that's 200 CCs versus. So through 2020, Bryson is T122 and driving accuracy. Last year he was T1 or he was 119 last year. So that's not, you know, that's through what,

six tournaments, or I know, I guess, with the wrap-around schedule, that would be... Eight or nine, yeah. Pretty, that's pretty significant number of... Well, wild neighborhood to live in in that stat. You got a brand-snaticer, Bryson, Ted Potter, Mav McNeely, Zander Shoffley. The deck key.

It's just a driving accuracy stat, means essentially nothing. Yeah, I know. I know. That's why I just looked it up just to maybe get a sense of it. If you're two yards offline on the PJ tour, you're not in trouble. If you're 20, you are.

Like you can't live out there. But now with how far the ball goes, fairways have not been widened. Natural dispersion patterns are going to expand out into the rough. So balls roll into the rough. Can we talk about Bryson's diet? Like, like, what else is going into this besides? So he's got it. Yeah. So that that features into it. He's he's been heavy on the sponsor post

on Instagram or gain is his supplement company of choice. So it's, you know, I think very... We're gain. Check it out. I didn't really look into them. I don't, you know, it's a sub-e company, but he's pounded shakes after his workouts, you know. I drink three every day to help keep me strong. You know. Clean, plant-based nutrition. So yeah, I think he's deep in the... Is that the same stuff on which you take, Randy? It is.

There's a quote in the golf... Randy's deep in the muscle milk. So there's a quote in the golf. Randy's deep in the muscle milk. So there's a quote in the golf. I believe it was golf.com about his going to the presence cup. He was eating 6,000 calories a day in Australia. And he said he really had a tough time on the flight because they didn't have any, you know,

they just had like bad. Couldn't get any calories. Couldn't get any calories. They didn't have the right foods for him on the plane. I was like, did he fly private? Like don't you ask for that stuff ahead of time? I've been fasting at what plane they flew down there. Like, do you fly?

There was how many of them? Like, there was 12 plus the assistant captain's plus all that. I know they stopped in Mexico. They refuel. Do you fly a long range G650 or a global? That just blows me away anyway. Cause I'm so lazy. like a long range G650 or a global, that just blows me away anyway. Okay, so I wanna shout,

I wanna, I dove into this guy Greg Roskov. So he is the founder of MAT, muscle activation techniques. And Bryson feels he's like a disciple of this guy, they work on his range of motion and seems to be his personal trainer. I'm not sure who else is on the team with the towel guy and the spritzer guy. There might be like weight disinfectant guy now

on who knows who's in the gym with him, right? The corona guy. Maybe the spritzer guy was ahead of the game and he was disinfecting. Maybe he was. So digging around on his site, his process looked pretty interesting. So he looks for cause and effect

and imbalance within the body and puts a heavy emphasis on range of motion. So an example would be if you have low back pain, most people are like, oh, well, your hamstrings are tight. Like that's the issue. Whereas this guy's like, no, it's actually probably more of an imbalance with the front side of your body

where your hip flexors and your torso flexors are not giving you the range of motion. And you don't have any stability. So then your back's doing all the work to keep you stable with all the little muscles and you don't even realize it. So that's my very, very amateur breakdown of what I'm seeing. So they, you know, from the Instagram videos, he's doing a ton of trunk twisting. He's done, it looks like he's working range of motion, which is good to see. I don't see him in the squat rack, which is what I was concerned about. I am blown away, though, that you can gain 45 pounds without getting in a deadlift trap bar,

without doing bench, without doing Olympic lifts. And I just think that as a golfer, it's one of the few sports where you have to really consider longevity. So a couple of things I'm really curious with Bryson on is, one, you gain 40 pounds. Right now it's easy to keep that weight on. He's working out 30 to 45 minutes, then he's hitting balls, and then he says he goes back

and works out for another 30 to 45 minutes every day. That's his regimen. When the season starts, does that continue? Does he then fight soreness? Because I just remember coming out of workouts in college and just being constantly sore because you're always trying to probably different kinds of workouts though. Yeah, I mean, but sore, because you're always trying to... Probably different kinds of workouts though. Pop-pets, basically. Yeah, I mean, but the reason I think they have to be similar is because how do you put on that much weight, right? Like, you gotta build... When you're joined.

Yeah, so, well, that's my next point. So, but first, it's like, how do you, if you're to build muscle mass, you have to break the muscle down, and then basically eat a much protein, build up the muscles and like rebuild them, right? And so that's what creates soreness is like you're just kind of pushing them to the edge,

basically. To your point, has there been one golfer in the history of this game that we've been like, mm, thank God, he bulked up. Yeah, like gosh, that is what saved you. And that's so it's like, my gut is telling me like, man, this is, sure, you're gonna hit the ball farther, but the injury thing, it's not so much like,

unless he's taking like HGH, then he might get the old pole hamstrings, which always a joke in football when like the guys that were juicing, they could come up with a pole hammy, you'd be like, ah, I knew it. Juice smoking. To be clear, you're not suggesting

that Bryson is juicing. No, I'm not, I'm not suggesting that, but I'm worried about his tendons and his ligaments because when you, you know, when your muscles become like crazy strong, they just start ripping stuff that you can't, you can't strengthen that stuff. Like it doesn't, you can keep it flexible,

which is like your only hope. And if you're trying to chase 210 miles an hour of ball speed, like I gotta think something's gonna pop at some point, right? And he has a swing similar when I watch Jason Day swing, where Jason Day, his fall through everything is so locked into the ground, there's no give, which it just looks like it hurts when he follows through. And Bryson has a similar move to me where it's like,

man, there's no give at the end, there's no- The opposite of Phil. Yeah, exactly, or like JT looks man, there's no give at the end. There's no- The opposite of Phil. Yeah, exactly. Or like, JT looks like, you know, he's up on his toes, like everything's kind of moving around. It's like everything's like 210 miles an hour has to end somewhere. That's what it is.

Yeah, exactly. It's a torque issue, similar. Exactly. So can you imagine how dumb Bryson's going to look at 270 when he does that putting grip? So he- Or he wears a stupid fucking hat. He's been very adamant. And the other thing is touch. He's very adamant in the bro Bible article he said,

I won't lose any touch around the greens. He's like been very adamant that that's locked in. But I remember trying to go and, you know, play pickup basketball after like spending, you know, two months straight working out. It's like, I can't find the rim. You can't find the back for it. Like all my everything is recalibrated.

Like I don't know, my legs are stronger. So some of it in my gut doesn't line up. But I don't, again, I don't wanna just blank it and be like, this guy's an idiot. Like maybe he's onto something. Now, chasing distance as a concept. If we go back to our what if podcast Like the guy you brought up from junior golf I feel like we can all think of guys like how many chase distance and like that's that's what cost him right?

It's like Philip Francis to bring in a deep cat analogy. It's like chasing the longest road in settlers at the time Exactly. It's a blood school. It's not worth it. It's full school. So here's Bryson doing the same thing. Two points, no man. It's just, but the numbers prove out that that's probably what you should be doing. If there's anyone actually that I trust to like chase distance, it's Bryson, honestly, with the way he works experimentally

and calculative and all that stuff. Now I wanna leave you guys with one quote and then I'm done. Wait, are we not gonna get into any of his individual Instagram posts? I can't show the people the Instagram posts. There was one where he broke the net. Yes. Well, I brought up the Twitch one.

It encouraged the class to do some outside reading. He's playing God's Giff, the song. He's like, oh, 203! It is. That's right. It is God's Giff. It's like, oh, my God. The three, it is. That's right. It is God's gift. It's like, oh, the one that he posted the other night, really, but chains of habit are two week to be felt until they're too strong to be broken by Samuel Johnson. The motivational poster right there. So the last quote is quote, the thing is, no, this one was from, I believe this one was from

golf digest. Quote, the thing is people normally say,. No, this one was from, I believe this one was from Golf Digest. Quote, the thing is people normally say, well, you're gonna get injured doing this. You're gonna get hurt doing this. And yeah, there are gonna be some things that pop up, but I'm lucky to know a guy like Greg Roskov. I hurt myself doing a back extension, or probably they are probably two, three weeks ago

before the hero. And within the next three, four days, I was swinging it at 185 ball speed again. and that was pretty much after I completely threw out my back So what he's able to do is incredible So yeah, I'm not worried. Yeah, my take on that was not was like, oh, cool. Not like oh, I have this guy this, you know, Shaman it's dude Like you just threw your back at what what are you doing? You know, like that's gonna happen again.

It's gonna keep happening. So, like, we have a funny story. We won't say who the source of it was in case they didn't want that. But in a tournament somewhat recently, Bryson hit a T-shot and had to hit a provisional. And he hits a provisional and just nuts the second one. And this guy says, yeah, well, you cut that second one good and Bryson goes, yeah, that was probably 185, 187 ball speed.

During an actual tournament. He's dialed it. He's all, as he says, he's all about creating benchmarks for himself. He walks off putts, so he knows that's 30 feet, and then he has a feel for like what that is. That's a 30 foot stroke.

So, I mean, it's a 30 foot stroke. So, I mean, it's a way to play for sure. Wouldn't he have to retrain himself every time he goes up? That's one of these bulking sessions though, that's what I was thinking. What I would push back on is like, look at the last three results after he's been doing this. It's like, clearly, it's figured it out as he's going.

It is working, but I worry the longevity factor. Oh, totally. It's where I'm like, yo, this is a lifetime sport here. Check it out though. What if he doesn't care about the longevity? I mean, he seems like he does, right? And I don't get grab bunk. He's gonna get bored with it at some point.

If you win a major too and get all the money, like why do I need to do this past 45 years old? Good points. Like 35 years old. But then also like, if you do that, why do you wanna feel like shit for the rest? Like why do you wanna have bad joints and like not feel good? Well, that's a good question.

Okay. Well, I might spend the rest of the day on this muscle activation. This is a calm. This is the problem. How would you describe him? Is he a beef cake? Like what's the, what's the, uh...

Well, it's a difference between, and I know we want to move on, but the difference between him, like Brooks lost weight for the body issue, right? He got all jacked and then he got cut. Bryson doesn't give a shit about how he looks like a complete meat stick. Like he looks like not even a linebacker.

He looks like a... Looks like a peaky blinder. Yeah, he, no, he looks like a, kind of like a detackle. Not so much a detackle, but like a second string DN, it's just like a hustle guy. You know, it's like, he's like backside, like, you know, contained. Like, don't lose contained. He's gonna, he's gonna look great when pooreth has a great tweet about what he wears. He's got the hat on it.

It looks like he's got like the velour poster. He looks like Sioux. Like Sioux, yeah. What he's got that go in this year Also all his weight equipment in his garage has his dumb logo on it Which is just like him and his like the profile of his face with his with his hat. It's just it's a tough thing It's right the fall the fall schedule with all these kind of cooler weather events. It's gonna be ripe for all these kind of cooler weather events. It's gonna be ripe for-

Sweatsy season. Dumb outfits. All right, a couple like quick takeaways. I know we're moving on, but the, I have no idea whether this is a good thing a bad thing for him. I couldn't possibly say, but it's fascinating. One, agreed.

Two, if we keep saying all this stuff about distance and like, you know, the game's gonna hit this inflection point where like the ball just goes forever, like that's the only way to play blah, blah, blah. Like this literally could be that. Like he could be on the leading edge. He could be. Of course.

Like so to your point, Tally, like maybe he absolutely is like just the first person who's figured it out, maybe. Well, I think that's the upside of that is, I think I mentioned this like when he first said, like, said he was gonna do this. What if we get to a point like 15 years from now where he just completely falls off Cliff

is totally irrelevant and we're doing this podcast. And like, God, remember, Bryson was like the best player in the world for like a couple months and then he wanted to put on like 70 pounds and he just completely disappeared. Like that would be Anthony Kim level. Where does his end, right? Like this, is it 270?

Like, do you guys remember David Boston? Yeah, well, Randy and I were talking to Andrew Whitworth and he's an offensive tackle. He's like, yeah, I've lost like 15 pounds the last five years. It's like, it's, you know, I play better. I'm quicker. We don't live for that much. Yeah, he's like, it's all about,

it's all about quickness and speed for me. So I know I was probably critical of him. I'm fascinated by it. So I wanted to try to figure it out a little bit. Excellent stuff. Lifting yourself off the PGA tour is that needs to be the goal. The true lift and separate. DJ Pie, you're up next.

All right, well, we're going to be diving into a subject. Both familiar and unfamiliar, I think, slash hope. We're going to be talking about the Pebble Beach golf links, TC. I know much like Star Wars, a place that's very balli-hooed and that you have some strong words about. That's a great, great analogy. I tell you, at least strong.

Might be, yeah. A couple of sources. We're gonna be talking specifically about the history of Pebble Beach. You guys know much about how Pebble Beach came to be. Mm-hmm. Only that Clint East would invent it. He did.

Bill Murray. That's even, he designed the course. He built the hotel by hand. And he told people, he was the house's lawyer. We're gonna talk about the, that's beginning of the middle. Del Monte, the hotel. The company as well. A little bit, a little bit. We're gonna talk about the, that's beginning of the middle and end. Del Monte, the hotel. The company as well.

A little bit, a little bit, we're gonna get in. We're gonna get in. So a couple of sources, golf digest a Ron Witten piece that was absolutely delightful. What you might not know about Pebble Beach, a very colorful, interesting, fun piece. And Neil Hoteling, I believe, is his last name. He had a site on the USJ's website,

the origin of Pebble Beach. So let's just dive in. So much like many of these, these turn-to-the-century golf courses, kind of starts at the intersection of the hotel industry and the railroad industry. You see a lot of these, railroads turns out we're printing money back in these days.

A lot of tycoons and that game. Tycoons, I had a A lot of tycoons in that game. Tycoons. I had a whole note about tycoons in here because the word tycoon has kind of gone away and it's unfortunate. But specifically, we're talking about the Hotel Del Monte, which was opened by tycoons. Charles Crocker, Mark Hopkins, callus Huntington, and Leland Stanford. They were heavyweights with the Central Pacific Railroad. This hotel in particular opened in 1880,

and this is right on the, right on the Monterey Peninsula there, probably about, I don't know, a quarter of a mile, half a mile from where Pebble Beach is now. The hotel opened, like I said, 1880, the Pebble Beach, as we know, it wouldn't open until, but 1919. There were two golf courses attached to the hotel, and for a long time, Pebble Beach was known

as Del Montes' second course. I believe it was a nine hole course when I opened, but I was hard to confirm that in my short amount of research. And I should say tons of books out there about this. This is a very rudimentary course, so if anybody's looking for more info by all means. But the other course that was there was actually pretty heavily celebrated.

It was where the first California amateur was held, and it was the first time the Western AM ever went west of the continental divide was to go play this golf course. So after the aforementioned tycoons died in 1900. Collectively? Together? Yeah, it was a murder suicide. mention tycoons died in 1900. Collectively? Together? No, the last of them died in 1900. The railroad was sold to a guy named E. H.

Hariman along with all of their vast, vast, vast land holdings, which was crazy. So the railroad owned all this land and then when these guys died, they basically had to pass that on to somebody and then just liquidate it. Like figure out like, okay, where's all, let's sell all this stuff off and how are we going to hide the money? How are we going to, yeah, how are we going to hide the money? So this was all held in the name of a company called the Pacific Improvement Company, the PIC.

So shortly after these guys died, that started to lose money this company. And basically, it was Charles Crocker's son who was put in charge of liquidating all of these assets. So he had to find someone to help him do that. The person he turned to was Samuel Finley Brown Morse, Neil carrying on the Ivy League football tradition. He was the captain of the Yale National Championship. Oh, the E-Live.

Yeah. Yes. Get them on the gridiron full of times, yes. Did you guys get any W's? No. The Yale Bowl lost by less than three every year. I don't know if you remember anything about the 1906, maybe you didn't have any more

certificate. So the Pacific Improvement Company has, How do I do remember anything about the 1916 that they did with the National and the National? With more CISC cap? So the Pacific Improvement Company has like holdings all over the peninsula that they're trying to divvy up and morese in after some conversations with a number of amateur and professional golfers was able to convince this committee the best way to split up the Monterey section

was not to do what they did in Pacific Grove and Carmel, which all of us obviously have been there. You see that the sites, the land sites over there are very small, very, very parceled, very tight, very tight, very tight, pieces of property over in Pacific Grove. Instead, what he said was, why don't we have these big sprawling plots of land over in Monterey and we'll build a world-class golf course that will attract it. It was basically, I mean, it's the whole entire Florida blueprint there. It's the real estate golf combo.

Only that land was actually good. Only the land was among the most beautiful in the entire world. Yeah. So, one key difference, though, was that the goal here was not to make an investment property, it was to make a liquidation property. So they had to basically divvy up all these lots and build a golf course and then sell it for a major profit.

And so one trend that we're gonna see here is that Morse, you know, you choose your word, was either very shrewd or cheap or shortsighted on a lot of how he, how he did things. So he was really trying to design the golf course on the cheap. Randy, go ahead. What, I'm, is this all in response? I know Neal's boy, the rough rider Teddy Roosevelt. Is this a response to the trust busting of the at very well to 1800s early, like I said, this is a very overview. But that that offline seems like the timing would dare mighty things

or any. I actually would need a bit of a little. I'm just wondering why, you know, why the sudden need to liquidate these really valuable. It's a very good. You would have thought that the tycoons would have just passed it right down the family tree. Right on down the line.

Yeah. We said lazy kids needed the money because they're not working. Oh, it's interesting. It was the guy son that was in charge of doing it. Well, you understand that the son didn't get into Harvard and then actually passed away. Exactly. I wrote my senior thesis on Vanderbilt, Rockefeller, and Stanford, their differing strategies for philanthropy. Certainly mentors to the C-suite.

So yeah, I was gonna say, sir, you're a bit of a... Those are the founding fathers of the Maris School. You're a bit of a... I can't, like, come on, man. A bit of a tycoons call to yourself. So, like I said like, come on, man. A bit of a tycoon scholar yourself. So, like I said, the point was liquidation. So they're trying to design the golf course

as cheap as they could, which is how they came across the architects that they would eventually use, which was Jack Neville and Douglas Grant, who were amateur golfers. And more importantly, they had explained that they would design the golf course for free. Why would they design the golf course for free? Is because in that time, any professional architects were considered professional golfers

by the USGA because they were being paid for their golf knowledge. So that was the cheapest way to do it. This is from Ron Wittens' piece as well, just another cost saving thing. Among Morse's money saving ideas were the use of sheep to clip the grass. They damaged the greens and soon ended up on the menu. And the use of pelican droppings scraped from the rocks as fertilizer, which killed the grass.

He had to be persuaded to hire a real super intended. But so Neville and Grant's golf course was the same basic routing. A lot of the holes were in the same spots. They aimed to get as many holes on the coast as possible, which is why we see 8, 9, 10, kind of all running. So what are you going to get there? They're long coasts. They're not on the coast.

Thank you. A very important distinction. But the golf course, as they laid it out, was barely 6,000 yards. Bunkers were very unimaginative. A lot of circle squares, kind of cigar-shaped bunkers. And there were a few exceptions in the routing. Nine was a short par four.

Ten was a sharp dog leg par five, kind of around that corner that kind of played over a bit of the ocean, which actually sounded pretty cool. 16 was only 277 yards, I think now it's around like 450. And 18 was a 379 yard par 4. Now I believe it's a par 5. Of course, the other major exception to the routing was the 5th hole, which looked nothing like it did like it does right now. This was as he's trying to find the balance of, you know, how do I raise money for this?

How do I sell this off? What do I keep? The lot that sits right above the Stillwater Cove that is now the 5th hole was one of the first ones that he sold. He sold it for $6,000 to William Beatty. It would go on to be worth much more than that. Once more is realized, oh shit, I need this for the golf course. This guy very understandably refused to sell it back to him.

So Grant and Neville had to design a what was by all accounts very horrible inland part three that kind of you had to squeeze through these big trees. Many people called it golf's only dog leg part three. Which every every part three that has a tree claims to be golf only dog leg part three. So Badeys House eventually he he would pass on. And his house went back on the market in 1941. Morse didn't have the money. We'll get back to why Morse stays in power here.

But he didn't have the money to buy it. So it remained a private residence until 1995 when Pebble Beach bought the land for $8 million from not yet They sold a part of that land that they bought off as two different home sites One of which was bought by Charles Schwab And they used the rest of the land to design the new part three fifth hole designed of course by Mr Jack Nicholas, I think it's an Obomination. The fifth hole, right now, the par-3. That's okay.

It's the best thing. And it's most definitely not abominable. Yeah, I like his seat. It's for sure not the first word that came to mind. Warren Bady, the actor. William Bady. William Bady. So it wasn't what?

Not the actor. Not the actor. Any relation to the actor? I couldn't confirm that right now, but we can set. We can look that up. We can say. Did the article didn't mention that? It seems like they would have.

Sorry. If you go back far enough, we're all right. I'm like, more than 80s. Bucking his head early. So anyways, back to the construction of the golf course. Construction was extremely slow, because they're trying to do everything on a budget as has been mentioned here. And Morse, at the same time, they're building it.

He's trying to convince people to buy it. So one of the people he convinced, I thought was interesting, was Maurice Hexher, son of August Hexher, the builder of Neil. Oh no, Central Park. Oh, I was gonna say Hexher Field said, I was like, I know that name. So he came out to see it. They couldn't agree on a price. Eventually this, I think this happened

a couple times. More is decided, I'll just buy the golf course, or I'll just buy the whole thing myself. I think he needed like a year to secure the funding. The board said, cool, that would be great. And so he became the head honcho, that's why I believe there's, I think there's a statue of him right by the first tee. But question real quick, please. Going back to that store, Kov and the fifth hole, is, did he sell the yacht club off at that point too?

I don't know, that's a good question. Yeah, because basically they just own the strip in the middle. Because that's like one of the most premium parts of the land too. Yeah, I don't know, that's a good question. My research was very golf course focused. So, if you ask a lot of good question. So eventually they got all the pieces together. It opened in March of 1918 and Whitten writes that the opening preview event was a complete disaster.

A dozen pros were invited. The winner shot 79.75 and everyone was very critical of the Candidys. The setting was great, everyone agreed, but there were rocks everywhere, impossible greens, et cetera. So Morse panicked, and this is where anytime you kind of read the history, there's a million architects listed. Over the next 10 years, I think he was kind of just soliciting opinions from everybody who walked by so that's why you had

Ike Mackenzie worked on the eighth and the 13th holes allegedly Donald Ross made one trip to California apparently he weighed in on some stuff The big one. I think it was Herbert Fowler was the one who actually Decided like you know, you need to stretch 18 into a part five. You're not using all like the best parts. Another person you reached out to was Francis McCommus, I believe is the guy's name, a landscape painter who penned the famous line, the greatest meeting of land and sea, which was erroneously attributed to Robert Lewis-Stevensson.

He turns out he was not talking about, that will be, she was talking about point low-bos further down the coast. So Anytime you hear anyone say that you can go ahead and And go ahead and shout at them. That's a coverage take But anyways reopened in 1919 things time has started to slowly get back into shape and then finally The USDA decided to have the 1929 USAM at Pebble Beach.

And before that, to get ready, that was when the USGA believe kind of strong arm them into retaining Chandler, Egan, and Robert Hunter, not the songwriter, the architect, to prepare the golf course and they kind of turned it into what we see today. And then the 1929 USAMM or 19.29 USM, which Bobby Jones, right? I think, you know, Jimmy Johnston.

Okay, never mind. So they had 10 years to get in the shit. They had 10 years to kind of slowly tweak everything, get it ready to go. And then the 19.29 USM was like the big, the big coming out party for it. Bobby Jones won 24 25 27 28 30 Victor hovelin won 29.

So I know the question you're probably all asking what happened to the hotel Del Monte? That's exactly what I was. It burned down. It did burn down. Cause all hotels at this. It burned down. Exactly.

It did burn down what they rebuilt it. And in 1942, it was taken, I don't know if this was like a martial law thing, but it was taken over as, by the US Navy, as a pre-flight school. And so the Navy at this time had a postgraduate school at the Naval Academy at Annapolis, but I think by 1945 everyone was kind of feeling themselves a little bit.

And they decided that that Naval Academy was not sufficient for what they needed. So they decided to buy the hotel Del Monte and its 627 acres of surrounding land for a campus. This is from the Naval postgraduate site. In December of 1951, in a move virtually unparalleled in the history of academia, the postgraduate school moved lock, stock, and wind tunnel across the nation, establishing its current campus in Monterey, California.

The coast to coast move involved 500 students, about 100 faculty, and thousands of pounds of books and research equipment, rear admiral Edward Herman supervised the move that pumped new vitality into the Navy's efforts to advance naval science and technology, the main building of the former hotel del Monte now named Herman Hall, houses principal administrative offices of the Naval Postgraduate School.

So I just thought it was funny that they literally just put the whole thing on trucks and moved it coast to coast. the original PXG troops exactly Is that inside the you know What I don't know what they're on the other side of the peninsula. It is right and now I think the That's where they have the language defense language. Yeah, so there you go and so there's if we are So let me get sorry the hotel del Monte was never like right by a pebble beach correct It was but that's the reason that the reason Monterey

Existed it was right basically built on the railroad. That was the first thing there And then you mentioned a golf course at the beginning was that on I don't know what happened to the other golf course If we do a part two a part two of this book report. There's I want to know what happened to the first course If we do a part two of this book report, there's wanna know what happened to the first course. We gotta get into all the Japanese companies that came in and bought it because that was like the big peak of oh my god, Japanese companies

they're just taking over all these American businesses that was like, people used that as like the lightning rod for a lot of that. There was like some megatized to Japanese organized crime, apparently, with one of the companies. Then you were off and... Yeah, exactly. One of the guys sold, one of the guys bought it.

I haven't get the numbers wrong, but I think he bought it for like $81 million and ended up having to sell it for like 53 or something. It's like one of the worst business deals of all time. So we can get into all that. Or I could, you know, like the Instagram post, I would encourage people to seek out the rest of all time. So we can get in all that. Or I could, you know, like the Instagram post, I would encourage people to seek out the rest of the story. It's all in the next season, a big little lies. Exactly.

Exactly. I will say it's only fitting that Pebble Beach has like 25 architects attached to. I think that's very fitting. It's like the best piece of like American real estate for golf and it's like, yeah, we just can't get it right. Just like, let's get another opinion. You know, it's just like by the masses, right?

Exactly. I think that speaks for itself. You know, I wanted to make that point, but also I thought of like the old course, which has also just been touched by a million people. But I think they got it right from the start. Right, yeah. So going back just to one clarification,

William T. Bady, president of the Austin Manufacturing company in Chicago, what are they manufacturing? I don't know. That's from the president of Prestige Worldwide. So, anyways, that concludes, that's a brief, a bridge history of Beble Beach. Thank you, thank you. Thank you very much.

You may have your seat. I believe I am next in the queue and the topic that I have chosen, slash was kind of chosen for me, I think. It was maybe the reason we wanted to do this. I didn't want to leave with this because this topic is not the most exciting, but it's a little, it's out there, but a lot of golf fans talk about this every single time, you know, every single week, they look at the standings, you know, how does Jordan's speed become number one in the world after missing the cut?

Talking about the FedEx coverage. We're talking about the official world golf rankings. And I think not a lot of people, myself included, don't really know the intricacies of how it all works. So I did some research on it and I'm going to teach the class on how the official world golf rankings work. I'm ready to teach the class on how the official world golf rankings work. I'm ready to learn.

Any acknowledgement of how they started to, are you going to get an answer? I kind of skip past that. So it's basically, there was the PGA tour kind of had their own system and this was kind of the integration of worldwide golf in the 80s. But really it was like Mark McCormick and IMG were creating a ranking system that would basically help identify the best golfers, but help marketability for a lot of players. And they rigged it so that it made,

they rigged it so that they made their players, it favored their players more. And it has been tweaked a million times and there's a history of all the tweaks that have been made to it on the official World Golf Ranking. We can't work down it for a while. Chandler Egan came in, they bought it from Charles Schwab. But the first thing to know,

and this is a quote from John Paul Newport, this is quoted in Mark Brody's thesis paper, which is gonna be a main source for a lot of the information you're gonna hear. But first thing you know about the Fisher World Golf rankings, it's primary purpose is not to identify the world's number one, or even the top 10 is to set fields for golf's major championships and other big tournaments in a fair, transparent manner. Okay, so I always said this at the top, like you can, you know, you can argue who's number four,

where's number five, how did this guy pass? That's not really the point. You know, if you're in the top, if you're ranked 10 in the world, you can argue who's number four versus number five, how did this guy pass? That's not really the point. If you're in the top, if you're ranked 10 in the world, just ranked number one, you have that affects your individual marketability, but if you are number 10 in the world, you're getting into any tournament you want. The big nuance is come around that top 50 ranking,

which gets you in the masters, and of course, I go around the top 60, top 70 in some of the WGCs, and I'm going to talk about how the rankings work, and then we're going to talk about some of the WGCs and how that, and we're gonna get, I'm gonna talk about how the rankings work and then we're gonna talk about some of the biases within them and how those biases. Most certainly affect that range the most.

So at the very top of the world rankings, there's not necessarily biases on any tours, but from spots like 40 to 120, there are extreme biases for a lot of tours. So more than just one tour. So shout out to 120. There are extreme biases for a lot of tours. So more than just one tour. So shout out to Lynn. A truly extreme bias. So again, official tournaments from leading professionals, eligible golf tours from around the world as well as major championships, WGC's, Olympic games, and the World Cup of Golf

are eligible for world ranking points in the hero world challenge, of course. Any players competing in these will receive world ranking points. And then there's a bunch of eligible tours. I think there's 32 or 33 tours that get world ranking points, the Abima TV tour, the all Thailand golf tour, the Alps tour, Asian development tour. I'm not going to read them all, but that you get, you get the idea. Euro pro tour, China tour, European challenge tour, European tour, PGA tour, all that good stuff. PGA tour, Canada, China, all of them get some sense of world ranking points.

So can anyone venture a guess as just to how do you, how do the points work? What are the points? What's the time period and which you earn them any answers from the class? It's like a two year rolling thing and then it gets weighted. Well done. Two year rolling period, points awarded for each tournament are maintained for a 13 week period to place additional emphasis

on recent performances. So anything older than 13 weeks old slowly starts to roll off. You apply a multiplier to it. Say it's if you got 50 points at the farmers and that was three months ago, it might be 0.9 times that 50 and that's what goes into your calculations. After 13 weeks. After 13 weeks it starts to roll off. It's 50 points until the 13 week mark and then it rolls to the 0.9, 0.8, 0.7 over time. Correct. Yes.

Which seems like a good system. It is. It seems well now. It seems well now. I'm trying to separate out the fact from the opinion here. I still think it's a little sticky though. Like I think it lasts a long time. I mean, you can, you can live for like a year

off of a great previous year, which it's okay, but it's also like, for what, and I got, everything goes back to that opening statement. It's for setting fields, right? And a lot of people will say like when it comes Ryder Cup time when it comes into the year or something like oh He's the seventh ranked player in the world. How do you not take him? But you might be the seventh ranked player because of events that happened six months ago, 12 months ago, and for that, but it goes to the point that official world golf rankings are not a power rankings It's not.

If you wanted power rankings, the Saggering rankings, which we'll get into a little bit, are a better glimpse into who is playing the best golf in the world, which is sneaky Web Simpson. So, ranking points again, yeah, decrease in equal decrements for the remaining 91 weeks of the two year ranking period. And then so however many tournaments you play, so you're on a certain amount of points, and it all totals up into one number. That number gets divided by your divisor.

It's the number of tournaments that you've played, but that number is a minimum of 40. So if you've earned 200 points, but only in 20 events, that 200 is going to get divided by 40 and not 20. Basically, it cuts your world ranking in half, basically. Does that make sense? Basically, it's saying you can't live off of just a few good tournaments. You've got to play 40. Well, it cuts your number in half, not your world ranking.

Not your world ranking. Your number of points in half. Correct. So, if you have 20 great tournaments, that's great. You're still getting divided by 40. So you gotta go play 20 more. And that's McCormick and the agent's trying to get guys to play a lot. Not necessarily.

I think we're kind of past the McCormick part. But what is the, they do that to get players to enter more tournament to keep you strong? Yes, essentially. Yeah, plus you just need to make the same samples. Exactly. Yeah. But it also need to make the same sample. Yeah. Exactly.

But it also has to do with why guys will shoot up the rankings early, right? Shoot up early. Like, you'll see a lot of guys like coming out of college will get like the minimum divisor I'm trying to think of how it works. No, it hurts that. It hurts you in that regard. So if you're calling more Kyle, come out and have a bunch of great starts. Like until you get to 40 events, your points still really aren't fully counting.

So it takes a while to get up there. And there's also a maximum divisor of the players last 32, 52 tournaments. So your SungJM, SungJ Patrick Reed, Loki has played 59 tournaments the last two years, but you take, it takes your last 52. Those bottom seven for him do not get counted. Can I back up and ask what's your, what is a decrement? It's opposite of increment. I never heard that word before.

Thanks for learning that too. Yeah, I never heard that word. That's a lot of stuff. It's an opposite of an increment. So it's like going the other way. Decreasing increment. Yeah. All right.

Whoa. I don't know. It was a typo. It looked like a desecration. Is that a two week segment? Like a decade? Wait, what are we talking about? The next part, I learned in doing this.

I never understood how you calculated the strength of field for a tournament. Never knew how it works. Turns out it works in two different ways. There's a world rating and a home tour rating. Let's focus just on the world rating for right now. If the first ranked player in the world enters a tournament, 45 points, 45 strength of field points are added.

Second ranked player, 37, third ranked player, 32, and you basically end up at a number that represents the strength of field. The players championship has a strength of field in the 800s. The Schwab has a strength of field usually in the four hundreds. Some of the small European tour events have strength of fields in like the fifties and nineties basically. If you don't get any top 200 players, you're not getting the strength of field points in this. You say that, no really. You got a certain look on your face. You say that. I'm just giving you the spectrum of how the strength of field works. I would also say that top heavy with like guys can of how the strength of field works. I would also say that top heavy with guys can throw off the strength of field, not throw

it off, but you know, two guys can add a lot. If you give it a beer as fee to DJ to come to Saudi Arabia, that's going to really impact the strength of field. There you go. It's a meal. Don't try to care for later. You know that you got an appearance fee. You might have just wanted to play there.

The home tour. One two red there. The home tour rating. The home tour rating is where I honestly, I get a little confused. It's based on the number of top 30 ranked players using each tour's end of year final ranking with a value allocated to the position in the top 30. So basically, like your top 30, if you have a Euro Tour guy in your top 30, in the top 30,

then like there's also, their points are, there's a rating system that's like worth 15 extra points to get added in off that. It's kind of confusing that one. So is that where a lot of the bias is coming from, you think? Not really. I think that's to keep it from being so lopsided. Yeah, I think so.

It's like at least adding some- Justin Roche has up to your event. You know, your strength field doesn't just shoot up artificially, it's balanced by't just shoot up artificially. It's balanced by the losses in the field. I think so. It doesn't drive the calculation that greatly. The world part is what really drives the calculation.

Now, the next part here, there is an, each eligible golf tour has a minimum first place points level, which comes into effect, should the first place points based on the comes into effect should the first place points based on the strength of field rating be lower than that awarded to each tour in this chart. So based on your strength of field, there's a sliding scale on how many first place points world ranking points you get. So if you are, I'm just going to throw something out like the Schwab in like 2018, something like that, like a 430, here I'll just going to throw something out like the Schwab in like 2018. Something like that. That got like a 430.

Uh, here, I'll just grab a tournament. The DP World Tour Championship in Dubai had a strength to feel to three 67. The winner of that was John Rom. He got 52 points. So it's a sliding scale based on the strength of field. If that strength of field was 700, that winner might get would get a lot more points than that. Is it a, is it the same percentage? It, I don't know exactly how it slides,

but it does, so strength of field, 659, in the Mexico championship, Patrick will get 70 points. Okay. That gives you almost like breaking up the purse. Yeah, essentially, it's like a bigger, almost like a yeah. Bigger, there's more points available here because it strengtheth wrong. It's what drives the strength.

Yeah, because group of Salinas. Our partners are group of Salinas provided more. Yeah, and so like yeah, 338 strength of field max home I got 50 world ranking points for winning that event. There's a lot of companies to

buy world ranking points. Now, here is where it gets video games. How much do we have in the budget? Let's buy 50 world points. That's kind of what they're doing. We're comparing. Yeah. Here is where things get a little wonky.

The European tour and the PGA tour are both treated the same in this regard. Every, there's a minimum number of first place points that you have to give out on the Euro Tour and PGA tour and that's 24. No matter how shitty your field is, so opposite field event, or like opposite

the like the barbersaw. Yes. I'm saying, but I'm saying like even the barbersaw is gonna get like a better field than like the dearest islands open or Sicily or things like that. Don't you dare bring up the dimension data pro. Yeah.

So yeah, if you're European tour event, you're getting 24 first place events points, no matter what. Yeah. Okay. So that's pretty high, no matter what. Yeah, okay. So that's pretty high, pretty high floor. What are some of the other tours? How do they stack up? This is other tour.

The Japan Golf Tour is 16. Corn Fairy is 16. Australasia is 16. Asian Tour is 14. Corn Fairy is actually 14. The hybrid events are 16. Challenge tours 12 and whatnot. So it's not dramatic.

And that's honestly not what drives the biggest variances, but it is just, all these things kind of add up in a way. Well both the PGA tour and the Eurator have a baseline of 24. The minimum of 24. No tour event really threatens, field-wise threatens hitting that floor.

Okay, so major championships, 100 first place points for all of them. So that's a separate thing kind of treated differently from tours because they are co-sanctioned events. How do we treat the players? The players and not a major. But those are like elevated staff. Flagship events. Thank you for bringing us to our next point. The six leading tours, PGA tour, PGA European tour, Japan golf Tour, Australasia Tour and Sunshine Tour and Asian Tour, and the two developmental web.com and European Challenge Tours are awarded a flagship tournament

and allocated a higher minimum points level to reflect their status, okay? So for the PGA Tour, the flagship event is the players championship, which is the standard provided 80, the flagship event is the players championship, which is provided 80, a highest, the minimum is 80 points. So if they don't reach that threshold, they're still going to get 81st place points. European tours, the BMW PGA championship. 64 first place points for that. Lovely, right? It should be, right? It's a flagship event. I thought they'd step down for the player. Yeah, I thought the Euro and the PGA were treated, they're treated equally on regular

events, but not on the flag. You know, that's a great point. What do you mean? Sorry. So on regular events, there's a, there's a low and barrier of 24 for both EGA and Euro tour. But on the flagship event, it's 80 and 64. Correct. I'm just, that's, that's a curious. Well, dude, you want to dive into can dive into the details if you'd like. Well, I'd love to. The BMW championship in 2018 gave 64 points to the winner. The BMW PGA. BMW PGA, yes.

The field strength that week was 283, okay? Not good. Not good. The Schwab, that same week, the field strength was 412. Justin Rose got 56 points for winning that. The winner of the BMW PGA championship in 2018 got 64. So they felt well, well below getting to the 64 point minimum, but they're just awarded that because it's a flagship.

All right, what are the minimums for the pretty damn tour flagship? Japan tour is 32, sunshine tour 32. That's the Japan Open, South African Open. The Australian Open, those are all 32, Asian Tour Indonesian Masters, Corn Fairy Tour Championship is 20, and then the challenge tour of the grand final is 17. Here comes TC riding the horse,

ready to ride for the Australian Open, getting the same amount as the BWPGA. National Open. No. This is bullshit. Basically, what comes down to in a lot of these events on the European tour, if you win them, you get so many points. Okay.

Rory, let's just for example, he finished tied for third with Branson Erika at the farmers this year. He feels drink 398. He got 19 world ranking points for that. Now, if you go play a terrible field European tour event, no top 200 players and you win it, you win 24 points. So, Rory beat several of the top 200 players in the world gets less points because he's playing on the PGA tour than he would have gotten it if he would have won the European tour event. So that's where some of the biases come out.

Anyways, I'd like to see Rory go prove it then. Go win the Euro event. The Mr. Big Shot. So to give you an idea on how the flagship works for the players. So in 2019, they had a strength of field of 882. The winner got 80 points as it is the flagship. The Dell winner got 70, the Dell match by got 76 points off a field strength of 781. So the players ranking lines up very well. So with the WGC's, there's no minimum point or there's no minimum or maximum points for the WGC's. That's just slow.

Yeah, they fluctuate, but it's such good fields that they get a shitload of points anyways. So just a random random nugget thrown out there. This was tweeted on June 16th of 2017, presented without comment. Alex Nore in the eighth ranked player in the world has played the weekend in two majors since 2013. I just randomly copypasted that in there. For all the grief given on the Nore thing, please remember that Alex Rinaldem is once ranked eighth in the world, and he's now outside the top 100. So can you refresh my memory?

You were writing that Norton didn't deserve his world ranking because he got all the points on the Euro tour. I would say, I don't wanna confuse the two, I should not have filmed this in there. Just one of the throw a dig it. It's will confuse the two. That was just like, dude, he dominated the European tour

in that stretch, played great. Looked up, he was eighth in the world, without having proven it on a world stage. I think he should not have been able to elevate in the top 10 in the world without doing anything major on the world stage. He won like three or four times, right? Five. Five times.

Yes. He won the BNWPGA. Yeah, got a lot of points for that. A lot of points for that. On the French open, national open. On the Ned Bank, the Scottish Open. Ned Bank is the Omega European Masters. He's won that twice. He won the Omega Dubai Desert Classic.

Third at the Dell Match Play. So that's a world stage, I would argue. What, when was this? 2018. What went in 2018 in the spring? He was 14. His rank was 14, Dr. that T2 at the farmers insurance open.

My point was I found it very interesting. You could get into the top 10. The world without making the cut at a major, which I thought was pretty damning. So anyways, in the BMW PGA, finished T6 at the open championship. That was after that. That I that I pointed that out to you. That was the next Championship. That was after that. That I pointed that out to you. That was the next one.

The question, BMW PGA is the Euro. That's the European players basically. That's confusing me. Yeah, because there's also a PGA event. So, a new championship. So, question for you. Where is all the Japan tour? Like, how are all these guys getting into WGC's?

We'll get to some of this here. So Mark Brody is the source of basically all this. In a paper, he published in 2012, he asked the question, he is of course the adventurer of Strokes gained, he dove into the question, are the official world golf rankings biased. And I don't wanna get too much in the nerdy stuff with this because you can get really lost. It is a thick thesis, like statistical paper that is not gonna be good radio. I would just say that right now. Like, faces melting.

But he created two, what he would call two unbiased methods for estimating golfer skill and performance. One is the Saggering Rankings, which is a rankings that comes from Jeff Saggering, part of golf week that is, it's a black box. We don't know how that is calculated, but he talks in great detail about how we trust that. I thought the Saggering was just up to Saggering.

It's, but there's a rank, no, it is matchup base, but there's an algorithm within it. It's not straight matchup based. Jeff's not talking. And the, he also comes up with this score-based skill estimation method, which uses scoring data to estimate golfer skill, taking into account difficulty of the course in each tournament round. So basically, world rankings are based on your finish in a tournament. They're not having to do with your individual rounds and they're not having to do. It's, if you are point one shots better than someone on a, on a, in an event, you are

getting exponentially more world ranking points for that. He does not suggest that the skill-based, score-based skill estimation should replace the official world golf rankings. He's just analyzing it for bias, okay? I do think that one potentially could be biased because the European tour objectively plays easier courses. Well, this is what this whole thing factors out. So he lays out several pages of how he accounts for the difficulty of golf courses. It is not straight scoring average,

and that's where you can get really, really lost. But comes to this conclusion. Using data from 2002 to 2010 and comparing the result ranks from the official world golf rankings and score based methods, his method, we find that PGA tour golfers are penalized by an average of 26 to 37 official world golf ranking positions compared to non PGA tour golfers. So basically kind of what I was all setting up there, all the points that are how the points are given out on the main culprits are the Asian tour and the European tour. Basically that's,

if you want to rise in the World Rankings and in that range of like 40th to 120th, that's where you would do it. So, are we gonna officially label them? Manipulate. Oh, WG, I'm Manipulate. Yes, there's a Manipulate. Yeah, they're the Manipulators. He gives a great example.

At the end of 2010, PGA tour player Nick Watney and Utah Akeda of the Japan tour had roughly the same official World Golf rankings. Watney ranked 35th. Akeda ranked 41st. But according to our score-based skill estimation, Watney's mean neutral score was estimated to be 0.98 strokes lower than a cadus. That's huge. That's almost a good full shot.

Watney was ranked 11th on the basis of skill-based score estimation. While Cater was 75th, a difference of 64 ranking points. They had a fish blah, blah, blah. He had a much better sagger in ranking. They teed it up against each other 12 times that year and what need beat him 10 times. And they basically came out with the same ranking. And again, it gets kind of in the weeds

on the actual positions, how there's not that much, at the very top, it's not costing people 26 to 37 spots. It is in that range of 40 to 120. And that is a key spot. That's where the masters has figured out. That's where the top 100 rankings come out. A lot a is decided on within that period. Now, there's also he looks at it from different periods. So like from January to December of the following year to your rolling period and June, July to June. There is another bias that comes in because the bias against the PGA tour players is greater for the January to December estimation periods because the PGA

tour season effectively ends well before December. And there's a lot more European and Asian events that go right up to the end of the year. The end of your rankings play out in several different ways. One main one being that the masters top 50 ranking play the European tour through the fall. All PGA tour player points are critical. Crane for the exam at the last minute. Exactly. Or you can play the hero role challenge.

Yeah. And I don't want to jump to gun, but do you have any recommendations? Would it just be drop the points, drop the floor on the Euro tour? I think 24 to 20. I think hesitant to give recommendations, but over, because I, specific recommendations, no, but overall I would say rankings can do a better job at reflecting

how many and how frequently you are beating the top players in the world. I think it's aesonine that you get 24 points for beating no one in the top 200. Yeah. If you're playing against a ton of top 200 players, you have to win or get second in that tournament to get the equal amount of points. Like that's something's right. So it's that blanket baseline for the board.

The baseline, yes, and just, this isn't gonna be popular. I like, I mean, how golf works, big prizes at the top, big points at the top, et cetera. For determining fields, why should you get exponentially more points, world ranking points for winning a tournament compared to second?

Is that the best representation of your skill? You see what I mean? Yeah, totally. Which is what I'm saying. The saggerings we touched on it briefly, but I know there's an algorithm, like you said, but the crux of it is basically match up You know if you finish second you get one less w than the guy who finished first, but you still get you know

154 W's one thing I think you have to keep in mind is how to you can't Close off the system right where you can't you can't make it so that somebody who's outside the top 200 doesn't get those opportunities outside of, say, sectional qualifying to get into the US open. But if they did, it would seem like it would make the corn fairy tour a lot stronger. It would seem like it would make the PJ Tourist position.

I think that's the other thing that I'm really struggling with is with the corn fairy tour, for instance, it doesn't account for those guys well at all. And even like opposite field events, it doesn't account for those guys well at all. And even like opposite field events, it doesn't account for those guys well at all because the whole intent is to identify players for the majors and for big events. Yeah, the Corn, like honestly,

I have not even ever looked up like world rankings for any corn, like it doesn't matter. Yeah. Legit, all I can think of is if you're in the top 500 in the world, you can skip local qualifying for US Open. There's nothing based, like qualification on any corn fairy event, challenge to our event is not based on your world ranking. It's like you cue school basically.

I think the other problem that I have is there's all sorts of built-in, I call them free crack giveaways. They're like the WGC's, for instance, where you can, you can come in nearly last place, not be a single player in the field and still get world ranking points. You do not get world ranking points. I mean, last place. Like I said, nearly last place. Yeah, they've gotten better with that. They, they're, and they, it talks about some of that in the paper. If you want to read the paper, I do recommend it. If you care at all about this world ranking points, it's just an interesting read. It's just called,

is there bias in the official world golf rankings? And it touches on that. Randy, you're raising your hand. You've been a great student. Thank you, Sally. This is all excellent. I'm something that occurs to me. You know, we've seen Brooks, Capca, Peter, Peter, you line, I've ever sent gone over. Why don't more Americans in this, you know, 80 to 300 range go and arbitrage the world ranking points by playing their 100% shit? Yeah.

They get home. I would close the loophole on that. If I'm the PGA Tour, that's like a disaster situation for me. There's also, there's also some risk in doing that though, where if you do make that jump, but then you don't take advantage of your PGA Tour starts after that, then you're basically, it's like a self-fulfilling process. You're going back over to Europe.

It's a big gamble. You have to be in the top X-Play band. And then you have to take advantage of those starts that are affordable on the PGA Tour because of that. And just to clear, it's not free points over there. The guys on the European tour, like they earn point, like you gotta play well to earn the points, you're still competing

against a ton of top players. It's just the payout is, it's out of balance. I don't know how you could argue otherwise. If you read this paper, you're like, okay, yeah, and he thought of this. Well, yeah, he thought, yeah, he kind of thought of that. Which I totally agree with everything you're saying, but I do think you brought up an interesting point,

Trondit. It's kind of the crux of it is like filling these major fields. And so the organizers of majors, they have to basically decide do we want the literal best players, or do we want like a world- I'm going to represent a sample from the world. I believe that answers the question of, isn't it? No, yes, exactly.

It's very, it's more accurate than you think. It is. They have an incentive to make it more worldwide because they want to penalize people. They need to save us. It's what it pin the crimes on. Can I just stop? Stopwatch fingers, man. I've got a brain buzzer for you guys.

There's an American in the top 70 in the world. Is it Kurt Kittiyama? Kurt Kittiyama, it was good to be my guest. It's not, well, actually he's 68, but there's somebody beyond Kurt Kittiyama. Someone Kim. Chan Kim, 69. Joel Damon 70th, Max Holma 71st.

I guess why, I don't even know who Chan Kim is. It's a manipulator. He's a manipulator. Very manipulative. That'd be a sick two on two match. Joe and Max versus the champion. The manipulators. So do I have everyone on my side

that the official World Golf rankings are biased? I don't think we've ever disputed that. It's just a matter of like, I don't feel personally aggrieved by it, I guess. I think it's a fun, it's just a fun. I don't really either. It's a fun bit. Yeah.

I don't like, I don't like actually those things. I think it's like, all right, what's today? I'm gonna be on the opposite side of something. Yeah. Yeah, of course, everybody say that. I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say,

I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, I want to say, He did a very well sol, how's your norin' take? He got, he could have very well lost his magic on the Euro tour too. I mean, he played well for a three or four-year stretch where he was on a heater. He had a great nine-month stretch. He's also low-key old. That's where I was just kinda like, all right, if you're the A-thranks puttin' the world,

come on over to the PGET. At least he would've stayed in the top 50 if he was that deserving. come on over to the PJ, at least, at least he would have stayed in the top 50 if he was that deserving. He's on top of the top one, right? Catch me on the catch me on the show. Yeah, that's right. It's like, come on, like we're not, this isn't one close.

This wasn't like, oh, he hasn't won on the PJ tour. Like, no, he is outside of the top 100. He had to use his entrance, he got the free entrance, thanks to a top 50 ranking at the end of the previous year, into Memphis to get free world ranking points, second to last week of the year last year to keep his cart. I'm not, I just was very, very much previous,

the two years prior. Nobody's denying that he did win tournaments, though, so try, this is what I believe you're talking about. Yes, yeah, well, this is not a good idea. No, T.C., why don't you? That was excellent, Solid. Yeah, Solid, thank you very much. I learned a lot there.

So mine piggybacks a little bit off of solids. I was gonna do sponsor exemptions. And the more I dug in, A, because the TOR's website stinks, it's impossible to find relevant data on virtually anything you're looking for. It is a disgrace and it has frustrated me so much. Guys, guys, guys, easy.

Lavanchor needs on the websites. Please take it easy. Let us get live with the new address. Let me be clear. Well, like, they're sponsored by the C-Doller organization. They're multi-villainele organization. So I was gonna do that, you know, I think we've dumped on Drew Love and.

We, is this a... Yeah, don't lump us in with you, dog. Which I was actually texting with Andy Johnson yesterday, he said, first of all, fuck all of you for your Westwood takes, especially you, Randy. I'm glad, I, God Westwood. Mm. So who are the fighters me up?

His question was, who's the best active player not to one of major? Keep going with yours. That was his argument. He won't have an answer for that. But it's not, what Westwood didn't come to mind? Best active player to not one of major, John Rom. Yeah.

Rom is a good answer. Okay. Like, but I think the question is almost always framed as like who has played, who has been best for a long time. Best is different than most decorated probably. Yeah, best, best, best, best active career, not to have won a major. I would still put Westwood's career above ROMs at this point.

Yeah, like for total resume, even though ROM might have more PJ Torments. Anyway, I digress. So I was gonna dig deep into field sizes. None of my tournament director friends really wanna go on the record with all these either. So, Trond's coming, don't talk to him. No, they'll talk all day off the record. Basically, the way it works is there's two unrestricted spots. Talking in sponsor exemptions. Yes, sponsor exemptions. So there's two unrestricted spots talking sponsor exemptions Yes, sponsor exemptions. So there's two unrestricted spots. Those are the ones that are kind of the willy-nilly

You know shady shit going on It was very critical of Ryan Raffles back in the day like what when you say shady shit What is that like you know like Testoral that whole positive. I was hoping yeah It's a test oral. That whole process. I saw his hoping. You got to elaborate on that. Yeah, that guy, you know, basically he comes in as a silver sponsor of a tournament or

a gold sponsor of a tournament. Most of the time it's an opposite field event, corn fairy events. I'm really not sure how his business model works or makes sense because like there's no chance this guy's making money off of it. What's his guy's name? Who are we talking about? Joe Testino, I think. It's Joe Testitor, the month of the month of the month. If you see guys with the Testor logo on their shirts.

So, so Jamie McCluein, Wade Benfield, a few other guys, basically they underscore this. So basically they work with this dude. He gets them to toss. He's almost like an agent. Okay. Where he'll say, I'll pay X number of dollars for you to have a spot like to get you a sponsor exemption into this tournament. And like all

sponsor your tournament if you give me you know two exemptions here. And then you get back or out of the earnings but spoiler alert like those guys don't have a lot of earnings so I don't really know how it works. Exactly. But anyway, you know what I was gonna do that. We're not gonna do that though. We're not gonna do that Were you scared the name name? Lamaki You know also I felt like it's commercial didn't get enough You know, also I felt like, you know. It's commercial didn't get enough for that. I know.

Like that was a cost over. Sick. You know, and like ruffles is playing really well on the corn fairy tour now. So I don't want to, I don't want to beat a dead horse with the whole sponsor exemption thing. And then I thought about priority ranking. I'm like, hey, you know, how does this factor

into priority ranking? Because the whole tour priority ranking and reshuffles and structures, the most Byzantine, like, you know, political, gerrymandered thing I think I've ever seen before. But in the midst of all this coronavirus stuff, there is, it's in flux for the foreseeable future. And granted, they are, they're bending over backwards to help the Zach Johnson's of the world keep their card for another year or two,

instead of having to earn it. They've J.M. entered the J.J. Henry Purple Mamba 300 cuts made. Are we gonna get to the point? So anyway, so we're not gonna do that. We're not gonna do that. So what are we gonna do? I wanna talk about the future of the European tour

and how that looks in the next two years. Three years. I think there's four possible outcomes. All right. Got the global golf post. I don't normally get too deep into it. Clicked on it this week, came out Monday, and a bunch of, there was like six articles in there.

Basically focused around this. A couple of them written by John Hopkins. Shout out. the big U. You. You. You know, going into the finances of the European tour, he said, quote, here's a question, does the European tour have any money?

An answer is, it depends on what you mean by money. That's his lead for that one. That's what your definition of is. This is the same guy that came on the 2018 Fox broadcast for the US Open and called Phil Mikkelsen and Ass. He's the best. Yeah, he's awesome. Listen to your podcast.

We met him in Abu Dhabi, and he was on the bus, on the media shuttle, and he was kind of picking our brains. Hey, what do you guys do? Oh, I've heard of you. Okay, and then see you the next day on the bus, on the media shuttle. And he was kind of picking our brains, hey, what do you guys do? Oh, I've heard of you, okay. And then see you the next day on the bus. I listened to your podcast. It's actually quite good. He's the most, like a beautiful British accent.

So the two guys that really dug deep, Ron Green Jr. John Hopkins on this, couple nuggets, PGA tour, digging deep into the reserves. What's the appetite for their expansion right now? As far as like, it seems, they tried to paint the tour and kind of a magnanimous light of saying, hey, we're not gonna go take too much advantage

of this right now. We're gonna try to ride this out and make sure all boats rise with the golf community. The big thing with that is, I don't think they're dipping into their reserves so much right now, we're going to try to ride this out and make sure all boats rise with the golf community. The big thing with that is I don't think they're dipping into their reserve so much right now with to subsidize. I think they're looking to acquire it in the tourism. And everything like that, they've probably cut their reserves in half, if not substantially more than that, just over the last three months. So that's something, your Euro Tour, it sounded like they've had two suitors come along over the last couple months, and they've rebuffed both of them.

Can we talk about before we get into this too deep? Why did they have no money? And the PJ Tour does, like, do we want to dive into that at all? That seems like a starting point. Yeah. And actually, I was shocked by, since Keith Pellie came on, the European tour has more than doubled their top-line revenues.

Now, Granity's increased the staff. They've gone from operating five events, where they're the organizer and they're collecting all sponsorship money and everything like that, instead of going out to a third party organizer. They've gone from operating five events to 15 events in the last three or four years.

They brought IMG used to do EuroTor's productions. They brought that in house. I think that's been fairly lucrative. But yeah, I mean, the big thing has always been the Ryder Cup subsidizes four years worth of, it's basically, they run into loss for three years. They host a rider cup every four years in Europe, and then from there, it is a sweepstakes,

and then that floats them for the next four years until the next rider cup. Which is why you see them go to the most financially viable locations more so than maybe the best golf courses. Same for PJ V American for the second. So to your question, I don't know. My amateur would be like, they just don't have the corporate sponsors, like the FedEx and... So like, I thought an interesting point from one of these articles, Monty was saying how even in continental Europe, he's like during the heyday of his career, he was noticed far less than he is playing champions tour out and about in the States. Like a lot of the, you know, Germany, Spain, there's a lot of countries that they plan that,

you know, golf is just that much farther down the total. Not any of that. I mean, think about also just the logistics of Oman and going to the Middle East. It's like, yes, expanding new markets. Hopefully that is fruitful in years to come, but what a money suck that has to be in the present day. Well, the only reason they've gone there

is because that's where the money is versus, you know, it's very, very, very, I wasn't there for a choice. Yeah, to ask that. But if you think about it, they're Australia, they're in Asia, they're basically everywhere in the world except the US, they're in Africa.

So that was a big. Dumb question here. What, same tax structure? Really is the PGA sort of. Yeah, I can't get a great sense of that. That's probably tough because you're dealing with so many different. Exactly.

It is a member-run organization. Like it is player-driven, like any sort of player vote would have to happen for any sort of change to occur. So that was kind of one of the big things that they went back on when saying like, hey, the top 30 or 40 players on either tour may not care because they're probably going to be playing the same schedule if not even a better schedule.

But if you're like a 50 to 125 player on other tour, I'm probably saying hell no because it's going to consolidate. And I think the big thing too is like on the PGA tour, it was a dirty little secret. Now it's going to come out. It's like there's like two different tours in play, right? You've got the WGC's, the FedEx Cup, players, memorial, colonial, L.A., you've got probably a dozen events there, and then all the opposite field events, all the like 3M and Detroit and all those, like that looks more like a corn fairy event compared to the golf between

those events and the top tier events is wider than that between those events and the corn fairy events. Based on field, that is. I wouldn't say infrastructure. No, yeah, field and probably ratings. And because the top players, these top tournaments are subsidizing the other 75 to 100 players, these top tournaments are subsidizing the other, you know, 75 to 100 players, right? Basically going back to the Euro tour, like they've chosen, all right, we're not going to

go it alone or we're going to try to go it alone right now. They rebuff their suitors. There's no indication of who the suitors are. No, there's not. Sorry, I found a little quote from Bob Harry. If you will. In certain times, the European tour loses money in non-rider cup years. Makes a tidy profit and years the event is played in the US and then hits the lottery and years the tournament is staged in Europe. This is from 2014 Rider Cup article.

Earlier this year, golf week reported that the European tour made more than 14 million pounds in pre-tax profit in 2010 the last time the Ryder Cup was staged in Europe. A year later when there was no Ryder Cup, it lost more than 2.2 million pounds. And I think Part of it going back to your question about why they're not making money. I think part of it is trying to keep up with the Joneses like with the Rolex series for instance and You know all of that is saying they've tried to do that is trying to keep up with the Joneses, like with the Rolex series, for instance, and all of that, if they've tried to do that, they've increased per sizes substantially and

eat to 10 on the events, and they're still half of what the biggest PGA tour events are. Something that occurred to me, and before we go in another direction what I've always wondered why the Euro tour Doesn't try to get more of a presence in South Korea popularity of the women's game. I think Asian like that's that was is like Asian tour Territory. Yeah, I don't know exactly how it was like a natural merge though, wouldn't it? Yeah, like create like a Euro Asia. Yeah. Well, so that was one of the suggestions was basically the apple of the PGA Tour's eye

is the Ryder Cup, right? They're all, they've always been extremely, for lack of a better phrase, but it hurt that they're not involved. So when the PGA of America and the PGA Tour split, basically the PGA tour got what is it? They had the players. The players and I guess like the rest of the competitive game. The torch-and-roll and the PGA retained. The PGA championship, the Ryder Cup and I believe the Grand Slam would go off.

So I would love that to be another research topic. The split. That would be good one. I would love that to be another research topic. This split? This split. Well, and then the PGA of America's basically held the Ryder Cup, or their marketing rights above their head and said, all right, cool, we can just strip away the PGA name because we technically own that. And they have a board seat too on the PGA tour board. So one of the things that was floated was kind of a collaboration where you fold some of the Rolex series into PGA tour, a little bit like the WGC's, kind of expanding those,

but making them even better. Like the fact that there's not a World Golf Championship in mainland Europe would seem, but they were buffed this. That was no. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, would seem, but they were buffed this. That was not a proposal. No, this is just a potential outcome. Okay. So this is kind of the hybrid model of nobody takes over

really, they kind of divvy things up a little bit. You know, they either, in order to get some of these gains, they either cut the PGA Torian on the Ryder Cup say, or something like that. On that end too, the PGA TorianI in on the Ryder Cup, say, or something like that. On that end, too, the PGA TORI seems to have eyes for Asia, much more than the European TOR. Asia and Australia, and then divvy it up so that the European TORI doubles down on Middle East Africa and Europe, which that seems like a logical conclusion.

And then you don't have to, because think about this, if the two tours, like let's say the PGA tour bought the European tour outright, how do you merge the two membership structures? And all the different, like the pensions and how, because the Euro tour guys are always going to be second class citizens in that world, right? You know, the guys that are legacy Euro tour guys. Unless you re-crafted the whole thing into like the world tour in that world, right? The guys that are legacy Euro-Tore guys.

Unless you've re-crafted the whole thing into the world tour that we've talked about, and then you kind of separate it that way. But then all of the, you've got all these guys, like say, JJ Henry, for instance, like you've got all these guys that have made boat loads of money, have massive pension on the PGA tour. They're taking a haircut in that scenario

and you're diluting their share, basically. So that's one thing. The other thing, PGL, Euro Tour, is like the ultimate, no brainer. It seems like, if they wanna, because one of the things that kind of shocked me with Hopkins article, especially was the relationship between Keith Pelley

and Monahan seems to be a lot stronger than their predecessors were. And from a lot of people, I've heard that the two entities really, really do not get along and don't like each other. But I've also heard that Pelley and Monahan, like in his Hopkins base, he said, Pelley and Monahan are actually gotten quite close through all this. Yeah, and then the other thing is piece, he said, Pelian Monahann are actually gotten quite close through all this.

Yeah, and then the other thing is just, you know, kind of an outright takeover. So it's like there's kind of four options. Osteo. Outright takeover, PGA of the Euro Tour. Correct. Or they just go out of business. PGA Tour takes over the Euro Tour.

Yeah, okay. Okay. Tour takes over the Euro Tour. Yeah, no, the PGA. Yes. Words matter. Yeah. Thanks, Dad. Anyway, I just thought it was like, we haven't really talked about it in depth, and I thought it was interesting.

Yeah, no, it is. It is, and it's, but it doesn't really fit into any, no, I just, I struggle so much to picture some of this stuff, how it all works, membership and all that. Because at the end of the day, all the PGA tour execs, and I'm sure the Eurator execs too, they're bonist on, and they're compensated on how many total playing opportunities they're creating

for their membership. And so when you, even with a merger or some sort of thing like that, the more money and the more resources you throw at taking care of the top, say, 20 to 40 players in the world, the more you're probably, like, as sport gets stratified, and this whole pandemic is shining an even bigger light on this of,, hey these guys are subsidizing all of these other tournaments and they want a bigger piece of the pie, well something's gonna have to give, especially now that the pie's getting smaller.

Yeah. Right, so I think it's gonna be interesting over the next, like the current situation is not tenable, it's gonna change drastically over the next 18-24 months. Very good, well done. Good stuff. It'll be interesting to follow. Now to the big guy.

Okay, I wanna talk to you. Now we're out of time for the day. I will be quick, I know I'm... No, no, no, no. I'm standing in the way of you guys in lunch. No. That's one of my favorites, speakers. I wanna talk to you guys about the 2010 club championship at Crystal Downs Country Club

in Frankfurt, Michigan. It's very strapped, of course. Is it semi-pump? This is a story that I have to give a shout out to Don Smith and Dave Trudell to good friends that I got to know while living and working up in Northern Michigan. And has been memorialized in a book that was written by Brian Mulvaney and Jay Lavender. And I will give the full title of the book after the presentation. So what makes the 2010 club championship at Crystal Downs

unique in any way? It was rained out. Let's, was there controversy? No, it's not a controversial story. Let's first of all, let's start with the course itself. Have any of you guys played Crystal Downs? In my mind, hundreds of times. No, I haven't either. It's a, it's a Alistair McKenzie Perry Maxwell design 1931. It's located like I said in Frankfurt, Michigan, which is in the northwest part of the mitt. It sits on a little sliver of land between Crystal Lake

and Lake Michigan, just truly God's country up there. So Crystal Downs is consistently rated one of the 10, maybe at worst 15 best courses in America. It's been as high as number 10 on golf digest ranking. What do you say it's pure Michigan? It's pure Michigan. It is the the epitome of pure Michigan. Yes. Thank you Neil. So what going back to my original question, what makes the 2010 club championship at Crystal Downs in any way remarkable? Well, it was won by a gentleman named Dr. Roy Vomestek, which I hope I'm getting that

last name correct, my sincerest apologies if there's, you know, slightly different. Roy, please reach out if there's a slightly different pronunciation there. Let me tell you a little bit about Roy. He was born in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, but he grew up outside of Detroit. He, after high school, he got a job cadding in his youth, worked at golf clubs, but was not a serious golfer.

After high school, graduated, joined the Army, served overseas. Came back to America, Stateside. While in the Army trained to be a medical technician, came back Stateside, fell in love, got married, started a family, opened up a little medical practice up in Northwest Michigan. And, you know, live to great life. So let's jump forward on the timeline to 2010. I'll tell you a little bit about Roy, but let's dive into the club championship in 2010.

It occurred in July over three days. The club championship starts with an 18-hole stroke play qualifier. Of course, this is no handicaps. This is, you know, scratch golf. Pretty small membership of there, too, right? It's probably pretty small. I don't know the exact number of members. Of course, it's a short golf season. It's a type of place where, you know, maybe you're getting five and a half good months of golf. Is it one of the places where you can always show up and get a game? Well, I can't. That's a great question.

I can't speak to that. I do know a lot of their membership. Yeah, is it a players club? It is a players club. I think it is a players club. I know some of their members. It's the type of club where they have some heavyweight members.

I'm sure they have members that belong to other Alistair McKenzie courses and perhaps as they're summering in Michigan, they play Crystal Downs. So one is one to do. Exactly. I believe the Doki-Tos also a member. So the Doki-To is a member and he was actually,

he was an intern at Crystal Downs. I mean, Crystal Down, is central to Tom doke the architect. He, he touched it up in, in 2018. He's done work there. Don't get a son. I think it would be the doke to be clear. Uh, so, so quickly back to, uh, July 2010, our first day day one is an 18 whole stroke play qualifier. We're looking for the top 15 people and then the defending champion, the defending club championship automatically gets in. So we're setting a match play of 16 people. It's a good feature. It gets into match play. And this is on this is on Friday. The first and second rounds. So the first round and quarter finals are both played on Saturday,

and then the semis and finals are played on Sunday. So this is a three-day event with a maximum of five rounds of golf. So Dr. Roy Vomisdek shoots a 75 to qualify as the third seed into the club championship. It's a comfy 75. He's a sad, he's a side saddle putter to give you a little visual. Is that legal? It was at this time, I think. Wow, does this derail your whole story?

No, 2010, right? I mean, this time it was. And then it wasn't like, didn't Sam Sneak get knocked for it too? Like, what was that? Well, Bryson was doing it a couple of years ago. The USGA said, clarified the rule that it was now loud. I don't know because Bryson was that was only a couple years ago. 2010. I feel very comfortable that that it was it was legal. So he goes into his first round match on Saturday morning, gets a nice comfortable victory

and then breezes through his quarter final match Saturday afternoon. This sets him up on Sunday morning against the number two seed, a guy, a gentleman by the name of Kelly Robinson, who's a three time club champion. Any idea what what Dr. Thomas dad's handicap is or what kind of facing he's working on basically scratch. So it's semi final match against Kelly Robinson, three time club champion, number two seed. Dr. Roy, as we'll call him, smokes him. It rolls in a birdie putt on 14 to win the match five and four.

Goes out to his van in the parking lot, gets a quick nap, and then plays, comes back for the finals Sunday afternoon. In the finals, he's up against the number one seed, the nine time club champion, the defending champion, the course record holder, a guy by the name of Ed Vomisdok. Are they related, you might ask? It's just Jimmy, a doctor and his son, good to go to hospital. Check it out, the doctor's a little bit.

It was the women's club championship the whole time. They are related. So, Dr. Roy, after getting a quick cat nap in his van, rolls out to the first tee. It's a back and forth match. Some of the best golf I'm told that the Crystal Downs membership has ever been treated to. Dr. Roy rolls in a 15 foot par putt on 18 to win the match one up.

He has shot a two over 72. This is his fifth round of golf in three days, competitive round of golf in three days. He has bested his kinship Ed Vomestack. And he has won the 2010 Crystal Downs club championship. Now, I know the question on everybody's mind must be what is so remarkable Dr. Roy Vomestek in 2010 is 78 years old. Well, Ed Vomestek is his son. Now, let's go back in Dr. Roy's life. He's got the last dance chronology going on. He's doing back on the map.

Dr. Roy was born in 1932. I said he grew up in Detroit after graduating high school. He joined the army where he went to Japan. It was after World War II, but at the break out of the Korean War. He served a few years. While in Japan, I thought this tid was was delicious. He befriended a Japanese gentleman named Katsuhaka Matsumoto. I'm probably butchered that name. Cassi, I'll give you a listening. Who? Who? Richard, if that is called. Well, what was so interesting about Mr. Matsumoto, he would become a world champion Kirin bike racer, which is a big sport over in Japan.

Dr. Roy, everybody was using bamboo rim tires up to that point. Dr. Roy had heard about some new metal rim tires in the US, had some delivered over to Japan by a sister presented Mr. Matsumoto with the metal rimmed wheels for his bike. And that helped sperm to become this grand champion, you know, Babe Ruth style of Japanese bike racing.

Unbelievable. Was he really that good? Or was it just the rent? Well, that's a good question. Yeah. The ribs don't spin anymore. That's the issue. As the story goes, you know, Dr. Roy was a bike racer too, but he recognized Matsumoto was superior. So he gifted him the metal rims, the superior technology.

And Matsumoto would send Dr. Roy some of his world championship trophies as a continual thank you for mutual admiration. Exactly. So Dr. Roy comes back to State side. As I said, he gets married, he quickly has a family. He decides to go back to school where he enrolls at the University of Detroit. On a whim, he befriends somebody. He's picked up his golf clubs, dusted them off. Like I said, never a very serious golfer

had cattied, had been around golf courses in his childhood. Pl plays in an intermural tournament at the University of Detroit with his friend at his friend's urging and wins the tournament. And his friend goes, check it out. You should try out for the golf team and they'll give you a scholarship so you don't have to pay for school. And that's exactly what Dr. Roy did. So on a whim,

he's been in the water very often this week. On a whim, unplanned, he makes the University of Detroit golf team. He earns a scholarship. He graduates at 29 years old with a wife and kids, and then over the next couple of years decides he wants to go to med school. And so at age 31, enters med school, becomes an intern up in Sagittall, Michigan. It's not really playing golf at all at this time.

And upon graduating from med school as a 36-year-old, with again, with a family, takes an offer from small, small rural town, McBain, Michigan, to become their, essentially, their community physician. So, he moves up to Northwest Michigan, and that's through friends gets invited out to Crystal Downs, enjoys the course, and eventually joins Crystal Downs

as a member himself at 54 years old in 1986. There's one other character that plays a big part in Dr. Roy's golf life that's Fred Mooler, Mooler who's the head pro at Crystal Downs. He was a college golfer himself, had competed on various tours a little bit upon graduation from college. Fred won the 1981 Michigan Open and Fred and Roy became fast friends. You can imagine. Roy is a middle-age guy in his 50s, kind of a younger head pro, Fred teaches Roy all about the intricacies of game management, how to play competitive golf, something that

besides the flinging college, Roy just hasn't done in 20- 25 years. So Roy falls in love with the game all over again and starts playing competitively in his big break through as a 63 year old comes when Roy wins the 1995 American senior match play in Florida where he defeats along the way that the number three and number six ranked senior amateurs in the country at that time. He qualifies for his first USGA, his first US senior amateur at the age of 66. That was in 1998. He would qualify again in 2004, shooting his age, 72, to qualify as a 72-year-old for the US senior amp. And then again in 2005, he would shoot his age, shooting a 73 to qualify for the US senior am and then again in 2005 he would shoot his age shooting a 73 to qualify for the 2005 US senior am

What was special about the 2005 senior am is he finally broke through and qualified for match play So 73 year old Qualifying for match play he did lose in the first round though on on the 19th hole to an eventual semi-finalist. So he put up a good fight. So in 2010, the only other thing before his magical club championship is a 78 year old, he had entered the 2010 Michigan senior open. And as a 78 year old was the first round leader,

but he withdrew during the second round in 90-degree weather because of heat exhaustion. Out of abundance of caution, he was worried. He had had a heart attack earlier in his life and so had to withdraw from that. But found something in his game that carried him to this memorable club championship. Now, one more thing to mention.

And I don't know, maybe one of you guys were here. He partnered with his son Ed to win the 2013 Renaissance Cup. That's stream song. Really? Dr. Roy was 81 years old at the time. I know, you played in the one in Michigan, right, DJ. I did.

I think that different. This would have been post his victory, I believe, but yeah. Okay. How about that been post his victory, I believe, but yeah. Okay. How about that? That's Doaks tournament? Doekita. Excuse me.

So I mentioned, you know, I got to know the head pro, Dave Trudeau, and one of the big regrets I have is in 2017 Dave was working on one of my summer visits up to Northern Michigan. He was going to try to arrange not only to get me out to Crystal Downs, but it said, I want to try to get us to play with this guy, Dr. Roy Vomisdeck. You'll love him. Great story. And so that was the first time I heard this story. And so that was the first time I heard this story. Now, unfortunately, and sadly,

in September of 2017, Dr. Roy was in an auto accident and passed away. And it is no longer with us, survived by a wife of 63 years, three sons, a daughter. So I think personally, and obviously I was going up in late September and you know, it just was obviously awful, awful timing and I didn't get a chance to do that, but I am grateful for learning this story and there is a book, most all of this information, I don't want to pretend like I'm making it all up, but it's a book called Roy, the 78-year-old champion. It's written by Brian Mulvaney and Jay Lavender. It's available online. It's just a fun little book, memorializing, you know, Dr. Roy's life and this week. So how old was his son when he kicked his ass? I don't know for sure. I want to say like mid 40s. Great stuff man. So that's why it was the moral of the story man.

I think the moral of the story is. No, honestly I think while I was putting this together, I'm 36. I'm the Neil Year, the youngest at 30. I mean imagine in 48 years for you, Neil, 42 years for me, like winning a club championship at a top 15 course in the country. Well putting sides that all. Well putting sides that all. So I think, you know, the golfing moral is,

hey, there's always time. You wanna, you know, you wanna be competitive. You wanna. The flip side of that is there isn't always time. You wanna, you wanna be competitive. You wanna. The flip side of that is there isn't always time because you had a chance to play with them but you weren't able to. True. Life is precious.

I'll do it next year. Ah, that'll come back around. Well, maybe it won't. Life is precious for sure. The only thing is maybe, you know, if Bryson does nuke the whole sport and it turns into a complete just ball speed fiesta. Yeah, maybe the stories go away.

Well, maybe there are more of those stories because all the young guys get hurt. You probably never play again. That's true. So, all right, well that is it for the show and tell podcast. This was a lot of fun. Thank you, everyone, for all your preparations. Please assign us grades for our reports, if you will, in the replies. And we will see you guys again soon, next week.

Cheers. Cheers. Get a right club. Be the right club today. Yes. That is better than most. How about in? That is better than most.

Better than most. Better than most.