No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 318: Olin Browne

Episode Date: June 8, 2020

Olin Browne is dusting off his plaid jacket and playing the Charles Schwab Challenge this as a former champion of the event. We talked to Olin about why he decided to play, what Colonial is like, golf's return, technology, the PGA Tour Champions, picking up the game at the age of 19, lessons he's learned along the way, shooting 59, and a lot more.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yeah! That is better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most! Expect anything different! Better than most! Really quickly before we get started here, just a heads up, there is. This isn't our best audio, this is a casualty of doing a lot of these over the phone over the last three months.

We have performed some CPR to this file, we had to cut some sections out, but just didn't buffer properly, as you can tell, our phone connection wasn't the strongest ever. Probably maybe didn't need to send this warning, but just bear with us throughout this episode on the connection and whatnot. I promise the material within it is well worth it. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No-Langup Podcast.

Usually we'll do an intro where I'll kind of update you on what's going on in the world of Cali. But we have, Olin Brown is with us today and he has been with Cali. I don't even know how long you've been with him, but you can maybe start us with that, Olin, and tell us what's currently in your bag. Well, Chris, thanks for having me on your show.

It's a pleasure to be with you today. It's kind of rainy, crummy day here in South Florida, so you caught me at a good time. We'll have a good chat, but I've been in Calaway since January of 92, which makes it by 29th year with the company, which is really great. And that's not normal, right? Well, I don't know if that's not normal or it is normal or whatever, but all I know is that I got in with Calaway just as it was breaking on at the scene and it's been I don't know if that's not normal or it is normal or whatever, but all I know is that I got in with Callaway just as it was breaking on to the scene and it's been fun to be part of that ride for as long as we've been doing it.

So what is currently, what are you gaming these days? What's in your bag, what kind of ball are you playing, what's the full rundown? Yeah, I got the Chrome Soft X ball in the bag. I've got 14 Callaway, well 13owick clubs in an Odyssey putter. I got the mallet 330 putter that I've had in there for about six years. I don't change my clubs too often. I do put the new driver and fairway was in play when I get the chance. I've got, you know, the Maverick Sub-Zero driver 10.5 degrees single diamond. I've got three and five which 15 and 18 degrees. I've got an old razor hybrid in the bag but I'm trying to work in one of the new hybrids. I think the face

has finally had it after 12 or 14 years of that dessert. And I've got the X-Port's irons and the new MAC-85 wedges 56 and a 60. So I figure I've got all my bases covered with that stuff and you know the The new drivers are really impressive the Maverick has a great look The look isn't a lot different than they had last year with the epic flash It seems to go really really well and I just think that you know the innovations were coming so fast and so furious that it was hard to improve on the product before Callaway has really ever since Chip Brewer came back, came into the fold and came on board, has really made it a point to put marketly improved product on the market and into our hands and the proof is kind of in that. So it's great, it's great stuff.

Well, that's where I am. People are probably sick of me talking here and me talking about it and probably roll their eyes, of course, that we are very clearly an upfront sponsor by Callaway, but every year it's like by the end of the year. I'm like, you know, I, guys, I don't need a new driver. I don't need one. I don't want one.

I'm good. I hit this one great. I did not want to give up my epic flash. And as soon as I hit the maverick, I was like, wait, how, like, how is it better? I don't understand how it's better. But my question in relation to that, and we can conclude the ad portion of, of this. But what would it be like for someone like you, who, you know, but the same equipment company, specifically is why I'm asking, if you had to go back to

playing what you played in 1992, and you were using that right now on the PGA tour champions, what would you, what would you have to change what would that be like and what what what kind of the with how different were the challenges of golf be you know that's really a funny question but one of the one of the things that that attracted me to callaways it it was the mantra pleasingly different demonstra and we better right and i was shocked when i saw the

the war bird Clubhead or the first iteration of those clubs because they were remarkably different. I mean whereas Clubheads had a certain shape and size to them. These things were wide and they had longer faces and thinner heels atop or you know sold atop. They just looked different and they were more playable and, or you know, sold the top, they just looked different and they were more playable and they were, you know, all of a sudden you could hit a driver off off the deck with much more ease than I could with the club that I had been playing up until that point. So if I had to go back to that stuff, I could survive it because that was really a revolutionary product.

Well, I think we'll get back into some technology stuff as it relates to your career and how you've progressed through the PGA tour champions when we get to that. But I want to first touch on a couple, one of recent item in the golf world and one that's new and in the future, I guess, the very near future from when this episode's going to come out. But you're a medalist guy. And you had some involvement in the match, the recent match that was down there. Take us through what your role was down there. My role was to flip on the TV and watch it on Sunday like six million other eyeballs. Look, I've known Slogger White and Steve Rintool for 40 years and they came down to kind

of preview the golf course and get there. They hadn't been here in a long while. They both played the course a number of years ago with Greg Norman, who's the original architect, and along with Pete Dye. And, you know, I went out with them and offered, you know, my 20 plus years of playing there as a resource that they wanted to ask any questions. Basically, that was where we left it. I drove around with them. They asked questions about wind direction, all locations, how shots play from certain angles. Listen to that thing, and that was where we left it. I drove around with them. They asked questions about wind direction, all locations, how shots play from certain angles. This is the thing, and that was the extent of my input. So they set up the golf course. Those guys are pros.

They know exactly what they're doing. And they, I was just, you know, it was kind of fun to put on an official's hat for a day and walk around the golf course and look at the things that they look at and see as potential issues, you know, where do we draw has blinds or they're called penalty area lines now.

Do we need a ball drop here or whatever? And so I just basically, for one of the few times in my life, kept my mouth shut, stayed out of the way and tried to learn something. Hmm. Transitioning a bit from that, you are gonna be playing the Charles Schwab challenge for the first time since I believe 2014. What made you kind of decide to take up, so tell us how you're able

to play it, you know, of course, being a past champion of that one. And what made you decide that this was a good year to revisit Colonial? Well, I won Colonial in 99 and everybody up through my year of victory received a lifetime invitation to come back and play and everybody from 2004 gets the normal five years. And I don't know why that is, but it's just something to do with the way the tour functions and the way the tournament is a special event. It's an invitation, so that's part of its legacy. And so I've always had the option of

Coming back and playing and I did in 2014, but it was opposite our senior PGA and as much as I love Colonial It's really hard to miss a senior major championship, right and so After having done it in 2014, I really felt like I should focus my attention on the champions tour. Now, having said that because of all this stuff that we're dealing with, this COVID and all this, all the stuff associated with it, this senior PGA was canceled this year and colonial as a matter of fact was rescheduled to a later date. There's no conflicting event on the DJ tour champions and as a past champion, I being invited back and I don't take up a spot in the feeling. I'm an add-on to the tournament. So if they have 140 man field, I'm 141. I don't feel bad

about playing because I'm not affecting anybody else's access. That's what I was getting ready to. I was going to pose it that way as a, hey, I'm a hater from the outside. Why you taking up a spot from the field? So I'm glad you help explain kind of what those, what those bonus spots are because it's you, it'll be you and I think gosh, is it Keith Clearwater that plays in it a lot too? Clear plays in it. I think Tom Laman's playing this year, David Frost. There are a number of us playing. And by the way, I think virtually every guy who's in my category, our category, would come back and play it if it were an open day

on our tour. So that's how much affection we have for the event and the people who have run the event. And it's going to be great to go back and see some old friends and stop around on some old grounds albeit with a whole different generation of players. back and see some old friends and you know stop around on some old grounds. I'll be it with a whole different generation of players. Many young players are so good. It's just going to be really enjoyable to go back and be a part of that again.

Yeah, I mean, it's just a sporting event that I would think is amazing to be a part of. And you're in such a unique position where you know, you are you are you playing like you said, you're playing in a spot that's not, not you know in no way taking up any other spot and it's going to be the greatest field in tournament history it has to be based on all the guys that are primed up and ready to play after a few months off. Yeah I think everybody's everybody's ready to go back to work. There's an awful lot of craziness happening in this day and age right now around this country and whatever the reasons and whatever the motivations of all this kind of stuff that just I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that people have

been like they're responding to an event that occurred that's really dark but it's also the fact that people have been locked away for a better part of three months with nowhere to go nothing to do jobs have disappeared. People are really at odds with what's happening in life right now. And so I think we're all anxious and excited to have an opportunity to do something that represents anything remotely normal. Well, what's the process been like for you in terms of preparation from a safety standpoint? I mean, have you, have you versed yourself deeply in the, I don't know if you call it a handbook that I think players have been provided regarding

regarding safety and protocols responding to COVID-19? I mean, is that something you're well versed on and ready to talk about? Is that something you're going to be doing as a crash course on the way to the tournament? Well, I think that we've been, you know, we've been sent information on what's going to happen. We're undergoing some testing currently. When we get on site, I think that the first week or on what's going to happen. We're undergoing some testing currently. When we get on site, I think that the first week or two people are going to start in with the process

and we're going to learn how that happens and what has to be done. But I don't think that it's going to be any more than additional testing and so forth. But in extension, what we've already been doing, which is a lot of people have been practicing social distancing. And I wear a mask when I go to the store to go out public. I do it as much as the courtesy of the people that are concerned about their health as I do for my own. I think, you know, I'm on the borderline of the one of the at-risk groups right up to 61 years old, you got to be in your mid 60s, you're one of the at-risk groups, I don't have any underlying conditions. And I walk around the store sometimes, I go and grab some hamburger or something like

that, and I see some older people with bass and wearing gloves, and they're plenty concerned, and I think rightly so. And so, you know, we need to kind of look around and be as accommodating as possible everywhere we can and go from there. And I think these next few weeks starting next week, what's going to be interesting to me is, hey, we'll get on the airplane. What's going to be like going through the airport? What's going to be the engine plane? What happens if somebody on the plane is sick, you know, or appears to be sick? All these things are things that those of us who haven't been out and about and

haven't traveled are going to discover it. It's going to be an ongoing education. Well, on a different note, what is, you know, I haven't been back to colonial, I think, since we mentioned 2014. But what makes that golf course a good course for someone like you to go back to? I think to a large extent that the course is, it's an old style course. So it's a little bit in the vein of of a harbor town or a TBC Cromwell or you know one of the older stop Pebble Beach. Let's say an older style golf course where the guys who first of all they're only two par five. So that's two fewer par days per day, it's eight fewer per tournament for Eagle and Chief Birdie opportunities.

So it's kind of neutralized, not just didn't neutralize, but it mitigates to some extent their advantage when they hit at 350 and 360 off the tee, which you see at a place like Colonial, when it plays fast, right? If you don't hit the fairway there, you're in flyer rough, from uter rough, and coming into really small green,

very difficult to control the golf ball. The wind tends to blow, although look we're gonna be three or four weeks later than normal. It's usually the third week of May and this is gonna be the second week of June. So I don't know if the weather's gonna be a lot different. I do kind of remember that colonial can be

like the first really hot weather of the year, right? It can get to be in a cookout. So you look at the guys with one there, and it's a wide range of styles of play. It's older guys, Tom Watson, one in one, I think, 49 years old. It's Hall of Famer, there's Tom Watson. You know, you got Bill Mickelson is one there.

You got Justin Rose is one there. You got Ben Crenshaw, one a couple times You got Ben Crenshaw won a couple times there. Cory Paveon won a couple times there. It's guys who could control their golf ball, make good decisions on the golf course, and capitalize when they hit good shots into these really small greens with these tight hole locations. So it's an old style golf course.

It's a brilliant design. It's got an incredible legacy with being known as Hogan's Alley, Ben Hogan won it five times. He used to hang his hat there quite a bit, best buddies with Marvin Leonard before he went and hung out at Shady Oaks. So it's one of those courses that has a connection to the history of our game and the legacy of the PGA Tour. And it's just really great to give him back and play it like that. Well, usually I do like some research and whatnot on a player's background and career and whatnot and usually have guys explain parts of their amateur career and usually it's kind of the same story.

Good junior player grew up, you know, with college blah blah blah. And I'm picking up some nuggets and I just need to hear from you tell the story exactly when you started playing the game of golf period and when you started playing the game competitively. Yeah, I really didn't pick up the game. I mean, I had some experiences with my dad play the game and there were always golf clubs lying around the house and we used to go out and bash them around the backyard or my grandparents house, they lived in the country so we go out and play from one tree to another tree when I was a kid, but I really didn't play golf until I got to college and got a summer job after freshman year working in a bag room. I picked up the game and really from that point it took me about I guess I was 19 years old. I became a PGH tour rookie in 1992, 32 years old. So I was actually thinking about retiring in the late 80s,

and then the Ben Hogan tour came around 1991. I was able to stay in the game. I just couldn't justify playing many tours any longer. My wife and I had our son, and I'm very thankful for the Ben Hogan tour, because now the cornberry tour kept me in the game for long enough until I could get out tour. And then I without the cornberry tour. Kept me in the game for long enough to feel like you get out tour. And then I did the rookie year mistakes.

I lost my card and had to go back. It was then the Nike tour and went back and finally made it back out to the PGA tour. 94, 96 were good. A quick break here. I don't need to remind you on this as we are discussing it here with Owen Brown. But golf is back.

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nine with it let's get back to olen brown well before we get too far into the pj tour career i guess there's something we got a cover between yet picked up the game at nineteen and started playing professionally so i mean did it come to you just rapidly? I mean, how do you determine and when did you determine that you had the skill to play, even if it was just many tours, but had the skill to play professionally? It's such a, I don't know if there's enough time in the show for me to go to the whole

thing, to be honest. You know, these kids are so good, so early, but it it takes 15 to 15 years to learn how to play the game. Any right minded person anybody thinking clearly would have chosen something else because I had started so late. It just wasn't really reasonable approach, career wise and somehow it panned out and for that I'm eternally grateful. I had a lot of support along the way. My wife was very, very supportive. I had to talk my folks into it. They thought I was cracked. And I think they're probably right.

But I think the lesson there is that you can never underestimate somebody's commitment when they've got the bit in their mouth. And so if something really excites somebody and you have the opportunity to turn your advocate into your vocation, I think it's a blessing and you never feel like you have to go to work. And as long as you maintain that kind of enthusiasm, I think it makes the road a little bit less wearing, if you will. I still have the same enthusiasm as I did when I was 25 years old. I don't have the same stamina at 61, but I still love the game and I still think I can get better.

I have such admiration for a guy like Tom Kite, 70 years old and I see him banging out balls on the range because he thinks he's going to get better. That's a marvel to me. And like I said, I have great admiration for that. Yeah, I'm always amazed at the people that the desire for exactly that, which is to get better, it never leaves you. You're right. I mean, all of the other sports, basically every other sport, you know, has a finite

end to it. Whereas golf in theory can go until you can't walk 18 holes anymore. Yeah, that's exactly right. And the real blessing of it is, you know, the way the tour is structured and the PGA tour champions is if you have a reasonable career on the PGA tour, you can transition onto the championship tour and get another 10 years out of it. And the idea that players can be 50 plus years old and competing at the highest level at their level in the sport is extraordinary. And you know, think about the idea that if you go, you've come to one of our events,

you can watch all of the famous actively competing at the highest level in their sport. And it's proven out by the fact that Tom Watson, Hall of Famer, almost won the Open Championship at Turnberry at 59. And just the year or two earlier than that, Greg Norman almost won the Open Championship that was won by Todd Hamilton. So guys' skills don't diminish. Their acuity may and their ability to sustain it over a long period of time may, but Hall of Famers are Hall of Famers.

And you can come to any one of our tournaments and watch sticks or eight of them play on any given week. And that's what, you know, and the one that I go that people don't ever talk about as much and he wasn't that, that close, but gave it a run is Jack Nicholas in 98 at the Masters, which, you know, when, you know, they're coming on the air, he's making a birdie run and it's that there's no, like Peyton Manning can't spring up out of nowhere and potentially lead a game-winning drive. Right?

Because when he's retired, he's done. But golf is, you know, even guys like around VJ's age, I can pop up on a leaderboard and make big runs in actual real, you know, PGA Tour major events and the big boy events. It's just crazy how that works. You're point about other sports. It's just about how big and how fast

and how resilient you are with your body, right? Football is particular. How much abuse can you dish out? There comes a point where the human body just unable to sustain that kind of trauma. And engulfed the trauma is a repetitive motion. It's a different kind of injury that everybody deals with. I mean, there's nobody engulfed. Who's injury free? Everybody's got shoulder, wrist, back, knee, neck, all this kind of thing. But it's more of a loss of skill by attrition as opposed to a single blow that ends a guy's career. Like, you know, basically Tom Brady's, Tom Brady, because Drew Bludts will almost lost his life when they got hit on the sidelines there. And that one famous game against the jet.

In golf, it's a slower burn. One thing I wanted to ask you about, and you kind of touched on it already, was 92. You're a rookie on tour. You're 32 years old, and you kind of just, you mentioned all the mistakes you make when you're rookie. I'm curious as to what you learned from that rookie or what of the mistakes you come out and make, and you know, you make it back pretty quickly. But what are some examples there? I think it's different for everybody. I mean, I just think it's degrees. I finished second on the bedhogan money list, a couple of victories in the 91 season,

a bunch of top 10s and top 5s. So I expected my play to transition to the PGA tour, and it's a whole different world. The courses are bigger. The competition is better. The greens are faster and firmer, and these are things that you have to learn along the way. I didn't play any junior golf.

I was a little bug-eyed about it. No, my first time I got parried with Deng Crenshaw or the first time I got parried with Jack Nicholas. I mean, those kinds of things, they're exciting for young players. And when I say young, I use the firm relatively, right? I was 32, but I was young in terms of experience. And so there's a learning curve for everyone,

whereas you could take a risk with certain shots at the lower level. At the PGA tour level, you pay the bigger price. Those are the things that you have to learn. You have to learn how to manage expectations. You have to learn, you know, in those days on the Hogan tour, it was a three-ever event, was a three-round event. I got in the now transition every week to a four round event. You know, the three round events are more

sprints and your mentality changes in that environment. It's something that a lot of guys learn when they come up to the PGA tour champions and they're used to having a bad nine, if they have a bad nine hole, there's room to make up for that because there's an entire extra round of golf. I mean, you have a bad nine holes in the PGA tour champions. You've taken yourself out of the running for the championship. So these are all things that everybody learns at every level. And Billy Andre gave me some very good advice by rookie year. And he said, you know what, the next time you come back, you'll be better prepared, not

because you'll be a better golfer, but because you'll understand your situation a little better. And he's right. You know when you come out initially you have to learn how to manage your expectations, the manage the situation, manage where you are. Sometimes you know you got lucky with a great shot or you had a great final round or you see it all the time players who shoot a great a great final round and win the tournament and then then they disappear because they can't they struggle to live up to the expectation of that victory. Yeah, the way I kind of look at it is almost like,

the way you're describing it is, there are lessons you're gonna have to learn along the way, whether you realize you have to learn them or not yet, and it's just a matter of time before you encounter that. It might, you know, if you come out and have a lot of success, it might be until year three that you learn blah, blah, blah, or, you know, if the success doesn't come right away, you might accelerate that learning curve and you might learn in year one.

Is that kind of what you're getting at? That is exactly what I'm getting at. It's a better way of saying it. It's the old adage experience is something you get when you don't get what you want. Well, there's a lot of truth in that. It rubs you wrong at the moment. But the reality of it is that there's nobody who plays this game, who has ever played perfectly. I mean, let's take an example of a guy who's already probably played his way into

the Hall of Fame in Jordan's speech. He had a run that was just unbelievable, wasn't it? And now he's had a couple of years where he hasn't had the same type of success, and everybody's looking around going, what's going on with Jordan's speech? Speedful. You know what he's hit one of those lulls that he's got to you know he's got to fight his way back to his older form and he will. He's a great player. He's obviously a student of the game and an extraordinary competitor and so there are cycles you know Jack Nicholas disappeared for years and years and years and they came storming back and won the 86 masters.

Look what happened to Tiger Woods. He went winless for a number of years and fought a bunch of injuries and then ended up coming back and winning the masters last year. So nobody's immune, nobody's exempt and everybody has to deal with the size of situation. Well, I'm curious, you know, when you came out on tour, this can be kind of really when you're a rookie or even through the 90s or any of this time period, two part question, who was the man, like the guy when you came out on tour that either you were most star struck by or most in all of, and is there any one player that you kind of played with along the way that kind of made you stop and watch

or something you marveled at a particular skill that a particular player had such as, you know, one guy's driving ability, some certain guy's putting ability, is there anything that was just kind of a shock to you in any way? You know, I don't think anything was a shock, but it was it was the realization that all of a sudden you were in it with them. And you know, I've cited a couple of them already Ben Crenshaw, the putting that Ben could come up with was just it was marvelous. His control of his speed and his line and his ability to deliver the club head so consistently

time and time again. I mean, he was just, I mean, it's why he was famed as such a great putter. And it's why, you know, I would gravitate towards playing around a golf with him and ask him repeatedly, Ben, help me with my punting. What is it that you know, and he would give you the typical kind of answer like, you ask him the question, Ben, so tell me about punting, aw, shocks, you go,

I just try and hit it solid, you know, or, aw, I just try and roll the ball. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, it's coming from, but this is really, you know, when you're gifted that way, when you're kind of a subat in that regard, that's the kind of answer that you might expect from somebody who's so accomplished and so much better. And so, you know, I just tried to open up my ears and listen to as much as I could

from people like that. Jack Nicholas playing a practice round with Jack, you know. And living near him down here in South Florida, he'd step up on a tee and he'd go, now old one, how would you play this hole? And I would say, well, Jack, if there's water on the left, I'm going to aim it down that side, I'm going to play this kind of shot, pop up on and you go, that's exactly right. And then he'd get up there and do the exact opposite, right? Aim at the water and cut it back by, and then he'd come and wink at me, go, but you know, sometimes you've got to challenge the whole. So, but there's a lesson there.

And the lesson there is that everybody has to learn to do it his own way. Steve Pate, one of my great buddies on the PGA, or PGA for champions, you know, he likes playing a lot of holds backwards and I laugh at him about it. We kid about it all the time. So like a lot of guys get up there and try and hit a, a cut shot on a certain hole and he play a draw on vice versa.

You know, and it's just the way he saw the hole. The lesson there again is how do you, Cory Pave, it's so much fun playing with Cory because he plays these shots and he just doesn't care. Like sometimes he'll take two or three clubs more than you think he needs and plays some kind of shot that bends like Bubble Watson does and Execute this incredible shot and get it in there to five or six feet when you didn't think it was possible and that's called playing golf It's one of the things that that you know, there's this long argument to be made that we're losing touch with because Because golf ball technology is so extraordinary and so's golf club technology the guys are just rearing back and ripping it and they don't have to stand in the in the fairway with the

wind a certain direction and you know take two clubs extra and kind of shape some kind of lows wheeling cut shot in there to get it close. The lessons that I've come away with are that everybody has to find his all the way to do it and and you you see a lot of people with brilliant talent who can't understand that. And you know what, pretty soon, they might have some success, they might stick around for a year or two, pretty soon they're gone.

And the guys who have the 20, 25, 30-year careers that move onto the PGA for champions, they've found a way to identify what it is they do best and live by it and present themselves in that opportunity to play great golf and win golf. Yeah, there's a lot of brilliance in there to react to. Like the first thing I thought of there when you're talking about Crenshaw trying to explain his putting was almost if I'm in his shoes, I'm almost like, I mean, I can't really teach you this.

I don't like think about all this stuff. It's so natural to me that I couldn't begin to explain it to someone else. Is that kind of what the feeling you get in some ways? Yeah, but now right on the head, I mean people who have special talent, the definition of genius is being able to do something other people can't do. And genius doesn't always understand its own genius, right? And by the way, that word is used loosely in a lot of different ways, but we're talking about a particular aptitude for a very specific action.

And when we're talking about a guy like Ben Crenshaw putting, or Brad Fax and putting, you know, there's a reason that when Tiger struggles with his putting, he asks Steve Stricker to keep an eye on him, because Strick has developed this technique and this ability, and you know know there are all these things that go into the simple act of making a putt and yet here are a couple of guys who have redefined you know the level of success with it and they are tangibly better at it than other people and the rest of us sit there and watch them.

It's like when Tiger first came out, guys would stop and watch him hit balls on the range. And you know what, the first time I played golf with him, my jaw hit the deck, because there are things that he can do that other people just couldn't do. John Daly had that also, you know? And there are a lot of really accomplished players

who do a lot of things really well, but the ones that always picked my attention got my eyeballs on them were the guys who could do stuff that maybe I couldn't do. Or that most other guys couldn't even. Yeah, another thing you touched on there, which I've been on this trip, you know, watching a bunch of old masters and old highlights and stuff like that. And we did a podcast last week where talking about just one of the topics we covered was the 96 Masters, which is of course the collapse of Greg Norman and kind of the duel that ends up happening between him and Nick Fowdo. And it was the whole summary of the technology debate or discussion was it was epitomized

in that 13th hole where Norman is 213 yards away and on the pine straw and debating whether to go for it. And you fast forward like 15 years and Phil Mickelson is just like, oh yeah, it's exciting right to the middle of the green. And it just is, and I'm wondering if you can kind of speak to how much the challenge has changed in terms of what golf was like in the 90s versus what it's like today and how where the edges are, I guess the corners are cut and the true edge to the top competitors is earned

because I watched those two guys debate whether or not to lay up on that hole and just thought, like, whoa, golf has changed so, so, so much and not that long of a period of time. Well, it goes hand in hand with the technological revolution for sure and this is part and parcel of constant change. Like we had the industrial revolution in this country, it changed everything.

Then we had the information revolution, that changed everything. And there are periods of time or in time where life changed as we know it. And as it pertains to golf, for example, there are quantifiable identifiable moments in the history of this sport that have changed the way people play it. I mean, I remember playing Cypress Point one time and I'm one of the shortest hitters on

the PGH2 or and I hit a five-iron in it at the end screen and made a three. It's par five. And they were talking about how during the match I believe Ben Hogan who had one of the fastest clubhead speeds ever recorded had to hit forward in there. So that tells you you need to know. There are people who understand this and they're people who don't and it has a lot to do with their era. You go find a guy like Jackie Burke or Gary Player or somebody like that and ask them about playing golf in the 40s and 50s and they'll give you an Entirely different story than I would right?

Having said all that it's also still a game of strategy and control emotional control You can you hit the shot that you need to hit when it matters and under fire and that's you know great Chambers from one ear to the next would still be great champions I mean Ben Hogan would still be a great ball striker in this day and age and he probably, he probably wear out the competition just like he did in the 50s and 60s. Well, a couple, you know, gosh, we've been talking about a lot of different things in there. So I want to get to the, we really haven't even talked that much. PJ Torch Champions yet. Or and I got to ask you about the Ryder Cup as well and some other, some other grab bag stuff here. But you won the 2011 US senior open shortly after you joined the

PGA tour champions. I'm just hoping you can, there's not a lot of guys that I can ask this question too of, how do you compare, or I'm guessing it's two different things, but how do you compare winning like a major on the PGA tour champions towards any of your other wins in your PGA tour career? I'm not asking you to rank them, but like I would kind of ask you to rank them, just where do they fall in the spectrum, you know?

Well, I think everything has a different perspective before and or after. So if you look at something as a goal, or if you look at something on the PGA tour before it happens, and then you look at it in retrospect, has has more definition in retrospect than it is in the moment so every tournament win I think you know look I haven't won that many tournaments I won I won nine professional tournaments for on the what's now the cornberry three on the PGA tour and two on the campus so they all have special me I don't have 82 wins

like Tiger or Santa or whoever it is the act of pulling off a win is such an in-the-moment event that you don't have time to consider all the ramifications of until you're able to step back and review it in retrospect. And I think, you know, my first win was special because it was my first win. My second win was special because it backed up my first win. My third one was special because I'd lost my stat at my exempt status and I'd reestablished myself on the tour and then transitioning to the championship store winning the senior US Open. It's the preeminent event on our tour and I won it wire to wire and that at the time, you know, like people ask me, what time was that one? When in wire to wire and I go the first three days, what a great, the Sunday was awesome.

I sleepin' on a lead every night, so each night's attention grew a little bit. By Sunday, I didn't sleep. Wide awake at 2.30 in the morning and I got a 3.45 t time, or whatever it is. And so the anxiety builds and the stress level builds and then you go out there and you have to actually perform. And hey, if you don't win the tournament, you'll let it for three days and you finish

wherever top 10, top 5, you had a nice week or whatever, but really you're a adult for not winning the tournament. Right. All these things come into play and you don't necessarily think about it because you're trying to channel your energy in one direction. And I would have to say that, look, I value all of my wins. I try not to separate them because as i said i didn't win all that much but you know how can you argue with winning a usg event playing the the final thirty

six with the hall of favor mark amera it was great competition and uh... he's a big part of y-o-one because because it was a comfortable pairing to you know well jumping around a bit i i got to ask about the 2005 US Open, which was at Pinehurst, but the story as it relates to you, related to that, US Open starts before you arrive there. Take the listeners to how hot you got going into that and how it all unfolded at Pinehurst.

Yeah, I'm doing the US Open Qualifier at Woodmont and I had one of those days where it's 36 holes in one day to qualify for the US Open for the your listeners who don't know. And it was in early June in Washington, DC. It was really high and I had a morning round Of 73 one over par I hit 17 greens I did not get up and down on the only green I missed and I had a free putt in 130 and I was just Mattered hell. I mean it was one of those, you know, you couldn't do it I felt like I was doing everything I needed to do I could could not shake in a pot. And I just couldn't get any more vitamin. I should be filming because if you make anything at the 68, you're right in the thick of it.

You're going to cruise into the tournament and qualify for the US Open. So what we all want to do, right? So I was bent and tried to withdraw. And I asked the guy at the scoring table, how do I withdraw? He says, well, you tell us and we tell them. And I just got all right. I'm going to have some lunch to think about it. But I just don't see

it's too hot. And I've got the tournament here. Tiger ears tournament at Congressional. I want to play that. And so I went over and had a sandwich and thinking about it. I go, you know, I play so great. It's so frustrating. But I tell my kids all the time, you know, just because things are hard doesn't mean you get to quit trying, right? And I didn't think I could call them up. And if they asked me why I would do, I could explain to them that I just felt like quitting. So I looked at my caddy and I go, I just can't do this. I got to, I can't look my kids in the eye. And it was their motivation really that made me go out and play again.

And I shot 30 on the front line and I looked at Buck and I said, said man we can't quit now he says, no we can't. I ended up birding I made a bunch of birdies early in the back now there are a few birdies early in the back nine and then I had a little drought there for three or four holes and there was a reachable par five 16 a par four and another par five 17 and I knew I had to birdie at least two of them to get in. And I made this really tough about six footer that broke, maybe two, two and a half cups on 16. It just curled in the bottom lip

and went halfway around the hole and dropped in. And then 17 was this blind second shot to an elevated green. There was a guy up there, but the problem is that the pin was in the back of the green. If I hit it over the green, it went down to hill into a hazard. So I hit my shot it was a pretty good looking shot and the guy watches it and then he gets in his cart and drives down towards me and I'm figuring he's going to

come tell me I got a reload or whatever. And he said did you see the shot I go no it's elevated I can't say anything but the flag and he he just takes two fingers and licks him and gives the down sign you know like a bucket. Like, I hooped it. So now I'm starting to do the math and I go, well, if I'm going to take birch on 18, it's 59. You know, I can shop on 17. I need to make an equal of a validate shooting in the 50. So get up on 18, there's this one brown patch.

I flew my ball on it, got an extra like 15 yards at it and I got 270 to the pin and I hit it on the grain and I've got this 25 footer that breaks about two and a half feet. Woodbond, it's a wonderful old style golf. That greens that have a lot of swayals and movement on. Anyway, I hit this putt. And it probably hit it, I don't know, probably.

If it hadn't gone in, it was gonna end up four and a half feet past the hole. But it went in the dead center of the hole. And I went to pick up my ball. My caddy lifts him, he says, what did you shoot? And I go 58. He goes, to pick up my ball, my caddy left some aces. What did you shoot? And I go 58, he goes, no you didn't. I go, yes I did, I shot 58. Well, I went to sign my scorecard

and that son of a gun added up to 59. And I go, no, that's just not right. I'm just sure I was gonna take. Long story short, it really is dragon. But I just, I got so lost on what I was doing, I didn't even know I was shooting. And I ended up finishing birdie Eagle for 59. Oh my God. I just all I knew was that you shot 59. I didn't know the whole story behind the behind almost quitting it all that. And then so I did you stay hot for the coming weeks because you're leading the US open through two rounds. Yeah, I was tied with the Ritef Kusin play with him on Saturday and I played I played really good golf the first day I shot 67 Rocco mediate and I retired for the lead and then my play kind of black into

Rubberman and I shot a I think 71-72 the next few days and then I got parry with Michael Campbell on Sunday And I played what I felt like was a better teetig green game and I just got overwhelmed by being there You know, I'm pretty soon. He's winning the US Open and I'm sitting there watching him shooting an 80 and I'm the idiot that's hugging him on the 72nd green. One of those kind of things where I just got I got swamped. I got US Opened on Sunday at the US Open ended up shooting my miserable score finished 20th or 22nd or something like that but later in the year I got the lead at Deutsche Bank and I ended up winning Deutsche Bank, leading it, coming into the house the last three days.

So you learn lessons the hard way and this goes back to something we touched on earlier about, you know, experience as something you get when you don't get you, what you want, well, like I said, I'm the fool, it's hugging Michael Campbell on Sunday, but if I hadn't gone through that experience on Sunday, I don't think I would have handled Deutsche Bank nearly as well

and was able to win that one in September, local Labor Day that same year. Well, I mean, I can't imagine, and I don't want to put these words directly in your head here, but for a golf course, I can't imagine a harder golf course for when you're even slightly off than Pinehurst, because the punishment is so severe for an OK shot is never OK there.

Like you have to hit a very good to great shot on all of your approaches. And if you're slightly off, you can just be like absolutely be funneled as to how you just shot 80. Is that sound pretty accurate? Actually, right. I mean, it's the greens are rejective greens. And on the first, I knew it was in trouble on the first hole. I hit it, I striped it off the tee, hit driver,

and had 89 yards to the hole. And my pitchmark was less than two feet from the cup, and I made bogey. And then I three putted number two, and all of a sudden my head was spinning, and it was just one of those type of things where, at the moment, you're just trying to batten down the hatches and survive it.

But the reality of it is, is that one of the things they talk about is momentum, right? You want to capitalize the momentum, but nobody has ever figured out how to stop negative momentum. You touched on it earlier, what happened with Greg Norman and Nike Sticks, and it's happened to everybody. Nobody's exempt. You know, Arnold Palmer, Arnold Palmer, the same thing that at where was it? That's a little bit. Yeah. Nobody, if it's a half-pactic徒, that happened to Ben Hogan and Cherry Hills. You know, these guys, those kinds of situations,

those kinds of events teach you something about how to survive bad things. Like Mike Tyson said, everybody has a plan to get hit in the mouth. That's just part of the learning process, part of the learning curve. Well, I have a question in, you need either one of your buddies or someone's playing a prank on you or something.

I don't know how familiar you are with your Wikipedia page, but it starts very normal. It says, you know, American professional golfer born in DC one three times on tour assistant captain, the fourth line on your Wikipedia pages at the 98 masters, brown and Scott Simpson both carted at quadruple bogey on the opening hole of the first round. I struggled to I struggled to understand how that is a career Wikipedia defining moment in your career. I guess because it happened at Augusta but I gotta say that I'm a little disappointed that Ernie also stole my thumb because I was in the

record books at Augusta for a long time and The performance on number one there took both Scott and me out of the equation. It's certainly an unfortunate event But things can happen to you to Augusta that are unexplainable and that was one of those things I'm gonna have to I'm gonna have to Address that with Wikipedia, I guess I don't know. The stuff. Hey tough on the computer is crazy anyway Well, well, what is the story? I mean, this is, was this your first masters? Yeah, it was my first masters. Is it just take us to that first tee? The S-sevy, how he made a seven on one hole, or four part, he goes, I mean, send me, send me, send me, send me, send me, send me, send me, and that's what,

that's what happened at Augusta, you know, I hit my T-shot in the fairway. I kind of fan my second shot, and I hit a pretty good chip. The pin was on the front left of the green. I had a pretty good chip that kept, and then released. And I go get up a little bit. And then I go, OK, settle there a little bit. And then I go, whoa, Nelly. And then it goes over the green the other side.

Three feet below the level of the green. Four feet below the level of the green. And two a tight pin. And if I put it up on the green, it's going to go off the front. So I hit it a few times and kept coming back to my feet. I looked at my caddy, my carman, I go, what am I supposed to do now? I said, just keep doing what you're doing.

Only hit a little hard. So I finally got the next one on the green and made the putt for an eight. Oh, well, what, what, what is it like? I guess what was it like for you to play in the masters and look, kind of zooming past the first hole of that experience? But was that situation that much different than anything else you'd experienced? Well, Augusta is one of those places. It's one of those very special golf courses that are special in that regard because we've

been watching the tournament for so long. I mean, I can remember, everybody remembers where they were in 1986 when Jack made that charge on Sunday. And I was in a hotel playing a mini tour and we were rained out. And so everybody in the tournament was in the same hotel and you could hear the screen guffin' down, you know, the hollering. And it's tied into the great legacy of the game, you know, Alistair McKenzie and Bobby Jones and you know all of the great champions Jack Nicholas six times and Tiger Woods

Five times now and Arnold Palmer and Ben Hogan and Firenab everybody, right? Everybody who's ever played the game at the highest level always wants to win that tournament. And so to be invited is a very special thing to play three times and I wish I'd played it three hundred times. You know what I mean? Well, one thing I wanted to make sure we talked about before we let you go was the, how you got tasked with the assistant captain chip at the 2008 Ryder Cup. Are you never played in a Ryder Cup before? Are you especially close with Azinger and kind of how did you fit into his

overall plan for pod systems? Yeah, you know, you should really ask Paul about that. We played a lot of golf together, like a lot of the same things. We're fishing nuts. We go fishing together. We used to talk about his playing for the Ryder Cup. And I don't want to speak too much out of school here because it's really his story, it's not my story. But he invited me to be on the team and it was such an incredible

honor. And there's all kinds of stuff that happens behind the scenes. For example, if I be a situation where you're on that team, somebody who you're not particularly good friends with, but there's a bond that forms and a friendship that develops out of that because of the experience that you endured during that. And it goes back to when we were all kids, you know, playing football or playing baseball place. The joy and the agony and the pressure and the inflation, they're all different. They're in their experience differently than they are when you're just flying by yourself. So it was a great experience, a forever indebted call for the invitation. Not only that, but he hung me with the Redneck Pog, gooey clea, and baby homes, and Kenny Perry, and Jim Fier, and people ask me all the time, how did you get that Pog? And I could say, early Christmas present,

so much fun to watch those guys play at the level at which they played, and for the flag, you know, I mean, you're playing for your country, until the Olympics came around, this is the only way to do that was beyond the president's cup team or the writer's cup team. And to be able to be a part of that and to witness those great players playing at the level at which they played is just almost inexplicable. No, it's the, I will ask on this podcast for eternity, anyone who's ever been involved in one of those things, we'll at minimum be at least one question

about the Radar Cup because everyone's just got only the highest praise for what that means to them in terms of their golf career. So with that being said, we're gonna let you go. All in thanks so much for the time and best of luck as you go to reboot your professional golf career shortly. And we'll be looking forward to watching you here at the Charles Schwab challenge this coming week.

Absolutely great spending some time with you. Thanks for the invitation and hope we get a chance to do it again sometime. Sounds great. Thanks, Owen. See you up. Get a right club. Be the right club today. Yes! today. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's better than most.

How about in? That is better than most. Better than most. Expect anything different. you