No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 321: Stuart Appleby

Episode Date: June 17, 2020

From a dairy farm in Australia to the PGA Tour, Stuart Appleby takes us on a journey that spans how he learned to play American golf, what it was like being in Isleworth with Tiger, Cat's trophy room, and the bizarre playoff at the 2002 Open Championship. He also discusses tragically losing his wife in 1998, almost quitting golf as a result, to finding happiness years later, and sustained success on the PGA Tour. He also discusses how much the depth of professional golf has changed, his back injury, the Champions Tour, and so much more. I could have talked to Stuart for hours and he will definitely be back. Easily one of my favorite eps of the year! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yeah! That's better than most. How about it? That is better than most. Better than most. and it's honestly one of my favorite interviews, maybe of all time, I maybe need a little time, might be on a bit of a high after recording this one with him, but he just has a way of telling stories and he just came prepared and ready to talk some golf. Nothing that's gonna be click baity, nothing salacious,

nothing too wild or stuff that you're gonna see aggregated tomorrow, but just good golf talk and some amazing perspective on his career, the game, and a lot of ups and downs that he's had. We're gonna get to that in a minute. If you're a gear head, you might know he is a long-time Odyssey putter user himself, Mr. Applebee. An Odyssey has just introduced a new version of their most popular head shape on tour. That's the number seven. The one you probably see Hendrick Stenson using, you see Kevin Kisner using it. They've been in that seven shape forever.

Zander had it in play this past weekend at Colonial. What's new about this seven, it features the triple track technology that Odyssey debuted this year, helps age your alignment. As you know, if you're not aligned properly, you just can't make any puns. Neil, this is addressed to you.

Callaway wanted to personally call you out, saying that you need to get the triple track alignment on your putter as being the resident triple track fan among the no laying up family. As you guys know, I am in love with my number seven, the grip is completely worn on it. I refuse to take it out of the bag, but if they had a nice sexy triple track one

when the number seven head, I will take a look. I will do some testing. That's why they call it testing. So you can take a look at the new Odyssey triple track seven putter today at Odyssey Golf .com. That's the new number seven and the full triple track lineup at Odyssey Golf .com. Here is Stuart Applebee.

The listeners can't see what's behind you, but what, how do you decide who gets up on your wall what are the jerseys that uh... that are up behind you well actually they're not my jersey this is the clubhouse my house is too dang noisy to do a podcast of this high-statua i cannot have it done in my house this is a quiet place and uh... we've got for anyone who's listening we've got uh... some basketballers, we've got some basketballers Nelson, we've got William, and we've got, well, he's not a basketballer,

baseball, a Kenny Griffey, Jr. He's a very regular ranger at, out here at Iowa. That's exactly why I had a feeling you were at, at Iowa, can you get the listeners an idea of what it's like at a club like Iowa, the place, I, as I understand it's essentially designed for pros who are the guys that you would see there currently uh... what would members act like when tiger woods was there like when he's around the people leave you alone to do

your thing in practice uh... it's very interesting because some of the players you know i'll be a bit of a range rat i spent most of my career on the range uh... doing all my hitting not a lot of play uh... garlic I spent most of my career on the range doing all my hitting, not a lot of play, a guy like Bubba Watson and Bubba was here, Bubba, you would never saw him on the range. He was always out on the course playing. Tiger was a bit of both. I think the club's idea was to be respectful of the pros doing their thing. We probably had a couple of dozen pros over the years, some of

come of gone, when we had Tabestock, which was a great event, in those early years, it was just a fantastic thing against like, no, no, but it was, I mean, you're talking about five star golf clubs, you know, when I came from Australia, from a small club that costs about three or four hundred, three hundred dollars a year, US to be a member, no, monthly two, nothing. We've got one green keeper, you know, to come here with. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, He would be there on a Monday, right after a win. He might take a day off. And my first real experience with him, because I remember I came from Australia, didn't really know Tiger Woods, the amateur,

didn't know how good he was. And I remember late 90s watching him, he was good friends, obviously, with Mark Amera, and he's on the range. And I'm sort of back, fairway away, and I'm watching the body language, and he's turning from Mark, and he's just hit a four-iron to about 30 feet, 40 feet right of the hole on the range. And he's looking at Mark and the body language was, see Mark, that's just crap.

Huh? That's just, I mean, that's crap. I'm like, oh, okay. So it's another one, it's the same shot, maybe 30 feet. See Mark, I told you, that's just shit, what am I going to do? I'm like, wow, he seems to be pushing it a bit. I mean, that's not bad. See Mark, I told you, that's just shit, what am I going to do? I'm like, wow, he seems to be pushing it a bit. I mean, that's not bad. I mean, it's on the green half the time. I thought, I just, he's just having a bad week. Well, guess who won that week? It was a Disney week, Tiger wins. I'm like, you know what? This is something special about this guy. Like, he wasn't happy with a 30 foot forearm. And it was just a run fest from there holding trophies. I went to each house not long,

oh, probably five years after that and my coach walked in there, we noticed there was trophies everywhere and we noticed there was very few spots left, you know, for a new trophy and we walked out and sort of chuckled to each other and said, see, that's things like he's not got a lot of wins left or something, I don't understand, there's only three or four spots left in the recess part. And he goes, you idiot, he just gives them away. And well, he was right. My coach was right. He must have given away another 40 after that.

You get to see him practice. You get to see him at our worth. You get to see these things. Is that, did that give you any insight as to how you can be that much better than the rest of the field? I mean, that, it's something I still just struggle with because the gap between number one and two can, it should be tight, right? So how can one guy be that much better than the next best guy?

How can one guy be that much better? That is a great question. How much talent does it take to be successful? Now, what does that mean on the PJTL? Does it mean winning more than five too? Does it mean winning more than five times? Does it mean winning once? Does it mean having a tour card not... I don't know what the answer to that is. To keep your card and be top 125 out of the tens of thousands of good players in America that would die for a chance. You know, when I was playing color,

it felt pretty easy to do, you know? And then when I went up and caught more difficult, it was a real sweat fest. And to have been as good as he is, it is hard to imagine, but I certainly was reading a book a few months ago now, for the name of it, lost me, but really talking about tigers, really everything, right up to

his upbringing you know what was what were the things that made him this elite you know and obviously in the end a lot of the things that he learned as a young boy going into being a man really you know ruined his career the final portion of his career made it extremely difficult you know just got lost but I can only imagine I always thought to myself you know, just got lost. But I can only imagine, I always thought to myself, you know, he can't go anywhere. He can't go anywhere and do anything. He can't go and buy a hamburger. And I think the one thing that I, if I could have waved my magic wand over anybody who ever spoke to Tiger as someone as a fan or someone who wanted to

tell a story. Tiger only ever got, people come up to him and say, hey, Tiger, well done last week. Congratulations. Have a good Christmas. Well done, Tiger, last week. A good luck at your next event. If that was it, I think a lot of this wouldn't have happened. There's just so many people wanting to tell a story, wanting to get a piece of Tiger.

Not always in a superficial, negative way, but this constant, every time someone makes eye contact with tiger, he would have been thinking, what do they want? And he just becomes very insular. It's not just well wishes. I got well wishes all the time, because no one really gave a hoot. He was like, hey, good luck. Well done.

I saw you play this. I saw you do that. But tiger, it was a whole different level. It was just, it's the lead. It's what Jordan would have had. What really can drive you crazy at the ultimate end? All you want to do is just compete. And I said to Tiger, I want this to do him.

Mate, you should go and play this tournament. You should go and do this. It's a great tournament. You love that golf course. And he'd say to me, I'm lucky to play two weeks. It's two weeks I'm like toast. I'm mentally undone. And no one had more on the ground field on the

sea, on the range anywhere present. And like blinkers on like Kentucky Derby. He was like no one else. Eyes down. Get me to the first two. Let me go. And I saw it, everyone saw it. Oh, that time he could not look out because if he did, someone wanted a piece of him. I always wondered if he heard the gap. Like, you know, attending the memorial tournament as a kid, every time he walked by,

it was just 50 people, like tiger or tiger. And I always wondered if he got to a certain point where he never, he didn't even hear that anymore because he had made a, it seemed like he made a conscious decision to say like, I can't acknowledge people in this way because if I give one person this gratification, it's going to happen for, I have to do it for everyone, almost what Phil has decided to do. But I was wondering if he ever, if you ever thought like he hears that anymore or was

able to like actually tune it out. I think he was brilliant at tuning out all sorts of stuff. I don't know. I played a lot within the earlier mid-parts in my career, and at Augusta, and all the photography, and the flashes going off from the practice rounds at the Ecclady day, and just nonstop. And he was just, and that's what made it really hard to play with him, and Phil at the cloudy day, it was just non-stop. And he was just, and that's what made it really hard to play with him and fill at the same time.

Fill was a different energy in the sense of the crowd. If you weren't really used to it, they were such a different feeling. Now, most of that's internal, but at the same time, there is an energy, like you get to any sporting event. There was an energy that's in the air, whether it's at a major or we're playing with people, that's status. The Tiger, I think, got really good at isolating

his golf and his personal life, but ultimately those two did not merge well in the end, but how he managed both through that period was, well, I say managed, but did that was mind blowing. He could compartmentalize and he was, Cutthroat mentioned Jordan's name before. He was the same ruthless, this is what I am going to do. And that is the hardest thing as an athlete is to want something, but then not get in your way. And that is the biggest stumbling block for any mere mortal. But for Tiger, here at an elite level of going to do this, and this is how I'm going to

do it. And his recipe, and the thing is too, is like for me, I didn't realize he was doing this since he was 15 years old. He's just dominating. So Betami was 25. He had more experience at professional golf than probably 50% of anyone else in the last 50 years. He had dominant.

I mean, he is the reason why we see the Ricky Fowler's at Jordan's feet that go on. There's another six now. And you go back to Sergio 20 years ago, he's the reason why you have these guys playing so good as they just see Tiger. And it's Osmosis. You just transform into, hey, I'm 22. I don't give a hoot, I'm going to go and play and if I do these things, I'm going to win comfortably in the next year or two.

Well, that, you go back 40 years, you didn't talk like that, you didn't think like that. Tiger Root was really the catalyst for this gun level of young golfer's being in their mid-early 20s to what used to be, you know, mid 20s minimum to late 20s, you know, Justin Leonard and someone like that. It's just a different field. I was a president, it was Cup Captain for the international team late last year and Justin Leonard was the US Captain and I walked around with my boys and I was just gobs making. These kids are in high school. Look what skill level they had. I was breaking, I was probably shooting mid-80s, at 15 I started when I was 14 so I was probably mid-80s minimum at 15, I'm like, oh these guys are

cleaning like clock, you know, I just even wonder whether they've been a student at all, if I had turned up now, just a different, different landscape. Well, you touched on about like four different things that I was planning to ask you about. So remind me to ask you if I don't about about how different it would be to come up in golf versus when you came up. But I promise I don't only wanted to ask about Tiger, but you might have a unique, you know, perspective on this one being Australian and you being in living in Orlando in the Iowa, the area in the fall of two thousand nine

what was that like to be around and i don't know how much you saw of tiger during that time but that was kind of the weirdly the center of the sports world uh... what do you remember about that time okay so we were in a striad and uh... we being family and actually tiger was at the same time right and it was the stride open at Kingston Heath. And I remember I was on the Pro Am, I was first group off on whatever was a 10th tee, at like six something in the morning, you know, it's a little bit daylight, beautiful

day. And the crowds, because Tiger's the second group off on IT, the crowds already, basically like Dave Bray, there's thousands of people already there. I mean, this tournament ended up being like a major. This isn't a little, this isn't one I'll let a little, three and a half four million people, but one city in Australia, it was packed, it was helicopter flying overhead, but there was the torque of something going on in his personal life was floating around back a week. Now, cut along through shore, I think it ends up winning

that week and you know what hits the fan, at the end of that tournament around there and by the next week, I think, sorry, the next week we were going to Sydney to play another tournament, he'd shot off and gone home and that's when it hit the fan and then we'd heard stories about our worth, the security was basically checking every car coming in and out. There was trains of media vans out across the road,

you know, 50 yards from the front gate. And it was, I'm sort of glad I wasn't here to be honest. It was very hard to believe. I had no idea, you know, I had no idea. This was all going on. And obviously, the preceding years were quite ugly for himself and obviously Ewan and the kids. So I really unfortunately, I thought he was the post-the-child of, I thought he was a man. I mean, yes, he could interview a little bit more like Phil and be a bit more honest, but he just, he did feel like to me, we've got the right guy at the top. Now we have in a professional sense, it was obviously, you know, we've got the right guy at the top. Now we have in a professional

sense it was obviously, you know, and most people would never clue what it's like to be resembling a tiger woods or something like that. But after sort of digesting a lot of his life a little bit in the sense through print, it would be hard not to go off the rails when you know, he sort of had the recipe that he'd had. But it it was all worth unfortunately got a lot of attention over that next 12 months plus. Yeah, just, I promise to wrap up the tiger part. I think if you're like you touched on, if you're getting this much attention

from the time you're age 15, you're not gonna ever really have a chance to fully mature on your own. I mean, it honestly took me at least I would say into my late 20s until I fully matured. And if you get that, you know, that everyone looking at you the way you were talking about from the time you're 15,

it's bound to have some kind of effect on you. And I think, you know, we learned a lot about that at a later point. But again, back to what we were just discussing and what you mentioned. And I look at, I promise I don't mean this in any way as a slight on your career, but I just wanted to ask you

if you felt like you were coming up and coming of age into this generation of golf, how different would your career have been? And how different do you see the golf landscape currently compared to when you came out on tour? Well, good question. Pottyme says, you know what I'd been fine. Why I think that is because golf has got the widest goalposts for success.

There's any sport, right, for longevity, but also for skill level and body shape and size and you could have someone like Dustin Johnson who's just a physical athlete or Gary Woodland and there's another whole handful of those guys. But then you got someone like Jim Fury who you go, wow, what a terrible look and swing, what an amazing mind, what a beautiful hand. Is that Johnson the same way? Brilliant mind, great hand. Who have both all of those have had phenomenal careers that in another sport you go, well,

could you have a guy in basketball that was not so tall, not so quick? But that's the beautiful thing about golf, is it is you and the golf ball, or you and your brain, that thing above your shoulder. That's really it in the end. So there's a lot of ways to skin the cat. Would have I had, I mean, I had some elite training, I was in a, I think, all the Victorian Institute,

a state-based institute of athletes, of golfers, and we were sort of the first around the world to really push what we need to do in the body and the mind and things like that. Now it's certainly gone to a level now that's phenomenal with crackman and gym stuff and science and all this. So maybe I would have become more powerful or a different type of athlete. So I think I would have been fine. I don't know whether I would have won as much who knows. I don't really know. I know the top 100 golfers who have spent five years or ten years at top hundred or

the same top 25 and well are better than the top 25 or 50 years ago. That's just in all the measurements that I think are measurable because we have different equipment. The brain power has never changed. Tiger, the race, the lights and the like. Those guys are strong powerful minds and Nick Feldos. Any of the guys that dominated and did well in majors are strong powerful minds and Nick Feldos any of the guys that dominated and did well in major were powerful minded people and that has probably got no better,

fairly marginally better in the last 25 years for the equipment and the bodies of players and the size of the players has totally changed from decades ago. Yeah, I was watching the golf this past weekend and watching Jordan's beef kind of trying to regain form that he had maybe as the most recent time he had it was really like 2017. And I'm watching, he's paired with Colin Moore, Cala. And I'm like, man, when he was at the top of his game in 2017, he didn't have to deal with a guy like Moore, Cala. He wasn't there yet.

And it just kind of feels like the new guys are coming into the game faster than the quote unquote old guys are leaving it. And I don't know if that has to do with technology is that, you know, what elongates guys careers or just seems to give this volume of extremely good players that I don't know if the game has ever really seen. I think that's going to lead to guys not necessarily racking up as many individual wins. Does that make sense? I reckon if nothing there, I disagree with you with.

I think that I think more young guys are coming in squeezing older guys out. I mean, I've had an injury or two, but I think that if you looked at, and I spoke to the tour about this, and I'm coming up on 50 and let's say 11 months from now and you know I'm right now I'm just I'm not ready to play check I haven't played golf in over a year on the tour and struggle even play 18 holes now.

So I would say if you went back 30 years there was a lot of people keeping their cards in 40 years of age and more. Now that number going 125, it's very rare that guys go from the regular to 49, step to the champions to who haven't got 20 wins over their belt of Davis Love, Fred Couples, BJ Singh. You know, a guy like Rod Pampling, Jim Furek, Steve Stricker, you know, there are very few out of the many hundreds that are rolling over through a cycle. And I might, if we also tamed about the one thing you didn't mention was, how are you going to get a more Akara, a speed, a Johnson, a Woodland, to the champs to a 50.

I just cannot see how that engine is going to last that long. Bernard Lang is probably the greatest freak show around. He's been playing high level world class golf now for over 35 years, basically. And I just, I'm just, you know, I think you need on the champions too. I think you really need to have at least a David Tom's, Steve Stricker, and obviously if you want to go a notch, you go to Fred Couples and the Davis. I think once those guys there, you want that sort of competition. I just, you know, I know it's the long way, but how are you going to get any of these guys?

I can't seem playing past 40. Right. Yeah, and the money is so different now too that it's, you know, where does the motivation come from? And it seems to me, the Champions Tour guys, you know, it's still part of that group. You're starting to get some guys like yourself that were a part of this tiger era that have maybe made more money compared to their careers than say a hailer when has or somebody that played for a long time on the Champions Tour. But yeah, how do you, one, I think you've now got this buffer zone

that I think you're talking about, this age 45 to 49, that you're kind of just in between almost like golf purgatory. And yeah, where does, where does, where do you get, what is the motivation, I guess, for the champion's tour? And I'm talking to Jim Furek about that. And it's for him. I mean, he's like, what, third in career earnings on the tour, it'd be super easy for him to, you know, hang back and, and, you know, hang with his family. But for him, it'd be super easy for him to hang back and hang with his family. But for him, it was immediately just about the competition.

It really doesn't seem to be about the money for him in any way, but there's this competitive itch for him. For God, I can't. I'm wondering how strong is where would you assess your competitive itch at the age of 49? I think the competitive itch is a really strong thing. I think if someone, there's a lot of players on the Champions Tour that, you know, they love the friendship, the camaraderie that we really do.

And people underestimate how much of a traveling family it is. And, you know, if I have an opportunity to get healthy enough to go out there, I'll see guys that I play with Duffy Waldorf a couple of years ago at an opposite field event. And I remember Duffy in my early part of my career. So I know Duffy and then there'll be guys that you know Jerry Callie and someone who I spent my corn fairy years and then he stuck out on the championship self catch up with Jerry. So that family thing I get, the very competitive but much more relaxed. It's almost like the Egos have, egos there, but it's quite subdued now versus strutting around and just trying to rip trophies off shelves like you were,

you know, in your 20-somethings, the 30-somethings. I think a lot of players still need to buck out there. It's still competition, but hey, you know, there's some great money to have be had out there. You know, I can do this. I can make X. I can, you know, how could you not go out and give that a shot? Touching upon how you're, Marikal. And we're assuming the Jordan's peace, the Dutton Johnson going with all these guys are going to have pretty healthy careers in the sense of body.

That, you know, the only thing that's going to keep them going is do they have enough genficiure, enough results that still compete? the money is irrelevant. And that's what ultimately is going to make a champion to it. To see, they'll have to bring the age down, but by the time, you know, 10, whatever, 15 years, they're going to have to bring it down to 45, maybe even less. And that is a contentious number to even talk about to anybody on the two and now. The number is just a number, but it would be certainly great to see a good dosing

of those players out there. I just love to get healthy enough right now. I, I, I don't have, I don't know. I just, I love to get out there. I just have not been healthy enough to even resemble playing all with Country Club Golf, you know. What is your, what is your current health situation? How long you've been dealing with it?

I'm actually back really, really all back. I sort of, it was on the Fritz, probably around 2011, and then it really went cock-eyed. After I blew it out maybe early 15, had surgery, and sort of really haven't had many weeks where I felt pretty awesome. You know, I don't mind hitting a bad shot. Like, I don't mind hitting playing bad golf when I can work it out. But when your body pretty much says screw you and you're a passenger in your performance,

you're like, well, what's the point? You're basically a race car driver with some idiot behind the wheel. You know, trying to find the, I feel a little bit like, for me right now, it's like, I feel like a hundred keys in my hand trying to stick it in the mall and the lock, trying to find something that gets me going.

I probably have a, maybe, I don't know if I have a silver bullet left in the gun yet to give it a shot, but I love the sport and I love, well I probably lost a lot of love from it the last handful of years to be honest because it's not, I don't mind the game when you go through cycles, ups and downs, but when it's just pretty much all down and there's no up and it's not about winning, it's actually just about feeling like you're involved in your own game and your own progress and there is no progress, golf sucks. I mean, that's what it feels like. I've got to be honest, had a hard time finding a time to take a break in this episode, but

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You can of course get hand sanitizing spray there, all kinds of options that they have there on the website. And I promise it's, it is a very quality good stuff and we have had a great time both partnering with them and using their products. So thank you very much to them for our sponsorship and let's get back to Stuart Applebee. Gosh, back injuries in golf, I don't know if there is a cure, right? I mean, we all thought

Tiger was done because of all the issues he'd had and the spinal fusion, no one really expected. Do you see a path to res—is more surgery an option or is it just something that you feel like you're almost sort of resigned to? I was talking a little bit down around a couple of years ago, I'm in a chat with you know, what do you think the odds are, I'm talking coming back and winning and I said look, I think it's the very best, there'd be 50, 50 just to win a tour event. Major, not likely. Well, we know what happened. So, I was wrong now. I think most people were really wrong. I certainly just, you know, speaking to enough people in the back business, you know,

I think Tiger's really trying to whip the horses hard as he can to get the last few furlongs out of it before he out for a collapse. I think I think I'd love to think I'm wrong, but I would say that any time now it could pull this, pull it up and just go, I'm done. Yep, I'm done. I mean, it's a lot of stress to put on. Of course, he doesn't get 125 miles an hour if he used to, but it is a lot of stress to put on the body, and I think he's a very driven man, and he's going to get shit done.

I don't care what the cost is long term. I want majors, I want the competition. And I think Greg Norma was a great example of he found some way to put his energy outside of golf. He really had that thirst for, I guess, that adrenaline in the boardroom. You know, I think that is a secret for someone like Tiger. What do I do when I'm not playing golf? What can I be good at? He can't just sit down and drink cocktail, but I think he's just going to whip that horse until he, and at any moment, I could expect the release of the target done. It could be six months, six weeks, I don't think you'd see more than a couple of years out of him. If he's not out there competing at a high level,

feeling a juices flow, knowing he has predominantly control of the golf ball, you know, kind of thing. Well, backtracking a lot here, usually this is a place we start, but we got kind of going down some more holes. But what was golf like for you growing up? Where in Australia did you grow up? And what's what's the golf like? I feel like a lot of people assume when they hear some bits from Australia, they grew up just playing on the sand about the whole time, but I understand your golf backgrounds a little bit different than that. If you hang out with me, I will take you down wormholes. I can guarantee you that. I love it.

No, I could promise you right now I'm going to keep you for longer than we then we that I told you I would because this is awesome. That's fine. That's fine. So my mum and dad started playing golf. Jeez, I guess that was, they were probably around 40, 45. They actually drove hours to get a lesson because we had no one around.

And Dad was a leftist, so he was sort of useless for me. Mum was a right-handed and really Mum would come back and say, Mum, what did you learn today? She goes, oh, they taught us about, you know, you gotta try and make the club go this way. As they manage to go up, it goes this way. And I was 14, as I said before.

So Mum was about the same height as me. go this way as the manager go up it goes this way and and I was 14 as I said before so Mum was about the same height as me and so you know literally I grabbed Mum's clubs and we'd go out and play you know I had no I had played cricket at that time I played Aussie Rills football and a little bit of tennis so I just got out there and I love ball sports as you know if you just love a ball flying through the air that was just perfect seeing golf ball go that far And I just got I think I shot 120 something in my first round of golf and it's only a short golf course 72 probably you know 6 and a half thousand yard 60 maybe late sixes and And then pretty much within two or less than 12 months. I was addicted like I mean

I could not go a day without chipping in the backyard I even used to get now right out mower because we lived in, we had a couple of, I think 250 acres of land. So I'd go out in the nearer sort of paddock and mower spot, you know, a little six by 10 foot spot in this sort of, well, past balance, not like the stuff you see on the golf courses. And I'd hit into the backyard. Well dad made the backyard bigger.

Mum said, don't break a window, so I had no motivation, no window breaking. And I just pitch back and forward and do that for years. And I just got addicted by so by the time I was about 16 so a couple of years later I was getting better. I still know when near the elite level of even my state goal. I ultimately got good enough where I got picked in that Victorian Institute as for what got to represent my state in our interstate competition. I never got to represent Australia and really I guess had dreams of wondering how good I could be. Started playing the odd pro tournament, had managers looking at me and got to play a few pro tournaments and would have made a check, so check service speaking I would have made $5,000, $2,000 you know could that be enough to run like expenses could I should I turn pro I certainly had no illusions that I was

going to be a world leader I'm like I'm not not once did I have a thing I just thought you know what just go about my business much like my mom and dad did being dairy farmers just get it done. And long behold, I turned prao and chip away in Australia and handfully years later, a few mini tours around. I thought, you know what, I want to go to the US. That's where I wanted to be. A lot of us, he's went to Europe. I had no family connections in Europe. And that was a pretty scary time. But you know, that brought me to Q school in 1994. I think I

shot the worst school the first round, Q-school and eventually got what was the consolation prize. The Nike tour, the Corn Ferry card, and that was the best thing ever happened to me and went out there with the likes of Chris Smith and Jerry Calley. Alan Doyle was playing there. Alan Doyle, I mean, went out the champions tour out there, but that was a real wake up. They had damn good American players were. But I mean, that feels like a million years ago.

Cool. There has to be, you know, a time when you've, you said you'd never, never believed you were a world beater, but there had to be a time when you realized, hey, I actually am that good at it. And I want to get to kind of win that is. But was your success immediate on the Nike tour? And I've read a story, I think, of a golf digest interview

about some particular equipment limitations that you may have had right when you immediately when you started your pro career. Do you remember that story? Um, limitations. Well, I did win my first year out, the first week out. Sorry, it was in Monoray, Mexico. There was a bit, I was running a bit short on balls that week. Yeah. And I really looked all, all I had, like, I can't, I had like, maybe not even a dozen balls for the week. And like, I'll practice rounds. I mean, I can't really have like maybe not even a dozen balls for the week and like I practice rounds I mean I can't yeah in Mexico you're not going to get anything shipped in quickly so I'm like super budgeting and I remember nothing or half knifing a ball out of

the bunker after the first round I went one ball that whole round and that's when balls when you half knifes and they were cut right back. Now you can't even cut a ball now. And I ended up beating Raffle A. Alicon, who's a Mexican guy in a seven-hole playoff. And I remember I think I remember made about 40 grand and I mean 40 grand. I don't even know what the exchange rate was back then. But I was like, holy cow. But I got to tell you, it was a real struggle. I mean, that was a great way to start,

but it was a real struggle because when I got to the main, when I got to the US, I'd never seen rough before, proper American rough, the right country club rough, whatever you want to call it. I mean, I grew up in, practically no rough. So I'm watching the thing I really remember was, I'd go out and shoot three or four under. I'd be like, man, I played good today.

Eight under nine under's leading. I go, what? There's no way you can shoot eight and nine under around here. Because I used to, I was, you mentioned the sand belt. I'd go and play my shots into the fat part of the green, turn my seven iron into kick back to the flag. But there was no kick.

The greens are soft and pretty slow. And I'm watching all these Americans just go bam bam Just stuffing it right in there. I'm like who are these guys like a shootout and I later found out After trying to watch the six months how to get out of the rough because I had no idea I really worked out man. You've got to be aggressive. You got a you know It's nothing like a strangle the sand belt golf and I've got a win I think late that year in Sonoma County open.

And I'm a Jerry Kelly and John McGinnis and their partners and my partner, my wife Renee. We had a great tour through this. And actually it was around the Johnny Cochrane time, the OJ trial. Actually we saw him the next morning, because he went missing. Really?

And we found him at, we found him at Opus. I think it was the Opus thing. You know, that was some of the coolest years of my life, because, or that portion, because I got to meet so many people, I got to see how professional twoers are run long term, versus how small it's trying to. But, you know, America's just been, I just can't, honestly, I still look and can't believe I was ever a two-a-player,

that played on two or one on two. I look back and go, how the hell did that happen? Really, sometimes I can't put my finger on it. Well, you touched on this, and I was hoping we could talk some about this, because I remember reading some stuff where you talked about the competition level in Australia just wasn't there compared to America. And I've seen this in the last few years. I've been fortunate enough to just play pretty frequently with many tour pros and stuff like that. There's been no better medication for my game than to actually see good golf, like to

see that level. And you just mentioned that there where, you know, in your mind, for under is a great day, but you didn't see the path to eight or nine under until you saw it up close and personal. So is it safe to say, you know, during that time period on Nike tour that you are learning what it takes to actually play at the most elite level from the other players? Yeah, I mean, you look at like Jerry Kelly plays all this sort of swagger and you know, Jerry's like, what's me do this and Jerry's got that sort of thing about him. You have someone like Chris Smith that we're going back to when I played on the Nike slash quandary.

You know, Chris Smith was just a ball striking Jesse and just so humble, calm, just relaxed sort of guy. And it was a lot more cockiness in America. There was just a lot more cockiness. And it was like I was, I was not that person. I wasn't a rarer, fist bumper. I was just a tip your hat, a quiet sort of guy that golf suited my personality a lot. I think noticing the Jerry Callett and those guys do those sort of, you know, the way they play it, I'm like, okay, I think

I need a bit more of that. I can still be me, but this is sort of, you want to get in the ring, you better start, you better start, you know, not just shadow boxing, you better start getting going. And I just, you know, again, like I said, I don't quite know how it all worked out for me, because I never really thought so myself as I get it in a sense, like, I would look at another flanger. She's, I'd love to have that action in the downswing or that. And don't you love how he, whatever. I think probably my best asset was just being really blinkers on, like I really got absorbed into what I was doing.

And I think that's the one thing as you get older, not as good at. And I think the guys that are still good older, the guys I mentioned before, the Fioriqs, Zach Johnson and Jerry Talley, those guys are very good at being older players with small scarts issue, but are able to single a couple of minutes out to do their golf shot and play like young guys. Even though they hate campaign, that beautiful mind, that youthful mind that I had was ultimately the greatest asset

I have. It wasn't skills, physical skills. That is it. As you get older, it is the asset. I think I have inspired a lot of guys, but I think the greatest tool in the bag once you get past 35 on one. So you go from winning on the Nike Tour,

you transition onto the PGA Tour, your first run at the Tour was not successful, and if I'm gathering right, you go back to the Nike Tour. What was kind of this time period in your golf life like? Well, I mentioned earlier that I got the consolation prize, you know, I got from, I think I should, like I said, last in the qualifying school, I ended up playing a bunch of sixty-nine to get almost to the getting my card and you know

I'm like, oh dang it. I miss that guy. Well, we'll go play this this cornberry tour and so I had some success there I got the last and this is this is how dumb I am You ready? Jerry Kelly comes up to me at the end of the the last tournament of the first year of playing on the cornberry tour And he comes up all wound up, Jerry. He goes, hey Stu, mate, I think you've got the fifth card. I think you've got enough money. I think you've got the fifth card, mate. You'll go under the tour.

Like, they're only had five cards back then. And I'm like, what, Jerry, but really, you think, come on, come on, come on. We're going to go do the presentation. I'm like, oh, where are we going? Just follow me. You know, we over and we get out, you know, I get my last card. And I'm like, how oblivious does it? Am I to this? You know, I'm just doing my thing and you know, just hopeless and Jerry Kelly's like dragging me along to get you know

Basically collect my ID my tour ID and out we go to the to the tour and I go out that year and holy cow Was it a was it a step up on playing? I had a great year, like I made something like 18 cups, made most of my cups. You know, as a percentage, I made quite a lot of think I missed the handful, but I just never had any good event. And it was definitely a real sort of wake up. I'm in a way, I'm sort of glad I never got out

on the tour straight away. You just sort of got cleaned up. And I made about 120, 30, 20 odd grand. How's that? 120 odd grand, and I almost got my card that year. I think I had the 30th and the last call, a Disney in that year to keep my card. No, I got back to Q school, Q school gets delayed the final day. We don't have to play. I've got my card. I go back to the 2 and 99 and have a win my first to win in the Honda Classic really ninety seven that was that was the sort of start of the holy calme here

on one of the biggest sides. Yeah, you won a million dollars in ninety seven which it was a lot harder to win a million dollars back then than it then it then it currently is. Alright, so you win you had nine PGA Torbans you win ninety seven Honda Classic ninety eight Kemper ninety nine Shell Houston Open. But I want to go to the 2002 Open Championship. Take us to first question I have and we're going to get to the playoff here in a second that you found yourself in. But take us to that Saturday. What happened that Saturday and how did it affect your round? I don't know

exactly when you teed off, but did you get hit by the weather or take us to what that day was like? So I'll take you to this the whole week whole week of most of that week up till then i was hitting the ball fantastic i could not make a part everything was just looked in never went in obviously when it's doing that i'm not dropping shots of dot just playing well doing the right things uh... i think i'll sort of

you know what's up there by no means but i remember finishing up later early Saturday so obviously wasn't in the tournament so much. And I came in at lunchtime, we went to the big massive marquee out in the middle of sort of off to the side of the course, had this beautiful piece. I thought, you know, as I, like I mentioned earlier, I love practicing so I go to the range and I remember walking outside the tent. So it must have been around lunchtime early afternoon and I looked over the tent and went holy shit, hell's coming. And I went, well there goes my practice, nothing happening.

So I remember just, I'm out of there, I'm going to go back to the house we rented. And I just remember, it just was one of the worst days of the whole, you could ever imagine. I remember, I think it was, um, Chigekin Mary Armer maybe was hiding behind one of the Rolex sign boards or whatever behind it. He just sitting there crying like a schoolboy, just like here with the Cumberland Tiger Shot, what, 80, maybe more than 80? It was amazed. So you can imagine where my score went, where I was in the field, like I can't tell you

where I was, but how much I left up. And I think earning might have shot. Oh, just over par, which has got to be one of the greatest rounds of golf that didn't win him a major, but ultimately it did. So that really left me up a long way up, and I had a... And my coach said to me, how did they know it said, you know, we'll see how you got him all right. Look, maybe they'll drop tomorrow because nothing had dropped all week. And I think I played with Patty Harrington on Sunday and they did.

I played really, really well. And remember, sitting in the locker room, one of those old, old, old, old, old locker rooms. And I'm packing up. I'm getting out of here and someone just me, hey, hey apples, you might be in a playoff here, mate. And he's only, you know, whatever it's tied or or he's, you know, one in front of you. I'm like, ah, ah, don't worry about it. Now, where you're going to be fine and I'll be home for a man playoff and shoot.

Well, how in the world did they come to the conclusion with this four-man playoff? It's you, Steve Elkington, Thomas LeVay, and Ernie L's, to send you guys off in two groups of two. I don't think about it at all, but when guys like you bring it up, it really pisses me off. And I mean that just in a mild sense. I don't get angry, but I'm like, I look back and go, how the F did they come up with that? Now, I actually know the answer, but it's a ship answer. The ship answer is we've been paying in twos all weekend, so we'll continue paying in twos. So then all of a sudden, this is how they're trying to tell us as if it is, and I'm like,

well, how the heck are we going to do this? And explain it to us. We're going to have you two go, I go here and you two, and I'm going, this is a comedy score. I mean, I'm hoping, I'm thinking, why can't I, why can't Steve Alkington, a more senior place than me go screw it, you stuck the old bastard from the A&R, you don't know what you're doing. We are going to play in a four, this is my livelihood. This is basically our tournament right now, four guys tournament.

And no one wanted to drive through adrenaline through the roof, but it was, we just unfortunately accepted it. And I look back and look, I'm not bitching that I should have won the British because I believe the bright guy won't. I mean, that guy did it. But it was the weirdest feeling. It was I almost like to me a dream like I'm floating above the golf course watching this happen. But at the same time though to be honest I was very grateful that I got into the playoff. You know because I sort of really wasn't in the tournament. I was like holy cow, I got a chance to win the British opening. I had 25th-century chance here.

This is real. I think as a year's roll by, I've sort of looked and went, holy cow, Stuart, you didn't get many chances to win a major, very few in the context of my career. It was my dream tournament to win. And I sort of, I don't know, part of me is like, man, one shot, Stuart, one shot, it's all you needed, one shot and there wasn't even a playoff.

I think that's the torture this game can do. You're trying to break out and win a major, because that was a dream tournament for us as always, he's watching that three and four in the morning before going to school on a Monday, watching majors in the US and so on. Look, I would have been very fortunate to have won that, I would have come out of nowhere. But what a strange wrap up to a tournament well i i was hoping the answer wasn't going to be that you know they have some weird rules there about you know not being able to play four balls

uh... at merefield or only on certain days you can and i was hope when you would you would you would the british accent was like oh no they're gonna say you know we don't we don't do that on weekends at merefield and i was like oh my goodness if you're going to decide that you know, we don't do that on weekends at Muirfield. And I was like, oh my goodness, if you're going to decide the championship on that, yeah, I'm not saying I decided to change it, but I can't imagine any sense in that because in 99, there was a three-man playoff. They didn't, the take wasn't, yeah, we've been playing in twos all weekends, so we can't send you off in threes, but that's a little different scenario. But I always found that so bizarre. I can't, I don't remember what that vibe was like, what I had to be just be an odd, odd feeling.

It's funny because you've sort of reminded me of another thing, like, if I ever see this happen again, I'll be home. You might even hear me yell through the TV. Like, no, you're not doing this, you bunch of, you know what? Because it's almost the same thing happened in me yelling through the TV when Dustin Johnson at the PGA at Wistling Strikes when he hit that ball in the, can you call it a bunker? Because only I think the last appearance we were before that, I'd gone and played there in a commissioners cup I think it was called.

They invite a bunch of players, we go play with all the top CEOs of the tour and we three months before the PGA, the first version, maybe something like that, we go out and play and the rule was the bunkers were going to be waste bunkers, that's what they were told. Well, me being an idiot, I didn't read the rules for the week of the PGA. So I go out all week and I haven't hit it in a fairway bunker and I think on a Saturday I hit it in the fairway bunker on this one hole and it was over on where the spectators walked so it was you know broken straw grass footprints everywhere and it was a fake rope going right through the bunker so I go over there I start grabbing dead grass and couple practice swings what have you I come in the rules to me. Stuart, let's have a chat about the

session and such on the session and such. I go, what are you talking about? Do you remember how many times you had any practice swing? I go, oh shit. Why are we talking about this? He goes, Stuart, that was a bunker. And I go, I said a few words. My caddy nearly jumped over the scorecard table. I had to pull him away. And I go, what are you trying to tell me, because Stuart, that's a hazard. You were having a practice swing, grounding a club, and pulling away debris in the bunker. And I'm like, mate, there's 7,000 footprint in the bunker. I'm supposed to play. Well, they're going to hit me with a four-shop penalty, I think it was. I end up getting him down to, I don't know, two or three or something like this.

So that was a big deal. You know, that cost me a long way into the tournament down the leaderboard. But why I saved it was I think I was the only guy who got pinged that week is when I saw Dustin Johnson in that thing. I'm just going, don't touch, don't you dare. And when I saw it really when it unfolded and they were talking about the rules got my just got sick for the guy I felt sick going this guy's just done it on national television nobody knew about mine and I just got awful seeing him basically cost him major yeah wow I never knew I never heard that story I'm sure if that was on television well I don't know if Dustin would have been watching that or that would have gotten

to him but yeah I definitely never heard that story. One thing I want to ask you about, of course, is what's now the century tournament of Champions League is, the Mercedes back then. You won that event three years in a row. And my favorite part about that is you didn't have any wins in between on the tour between that. So that was your ticket into the event, each of the following years. What was it about that tournament and that course that set up very well for you.

Boy, you're wrecking my brain now. So let me think, okay, so four, five, and six. So, those three, I think I won by a good set of late in the year. October, yeah, October 23. Yeah, right. Okay, so they went to Australia not long after that. So you made your most Americans that sort of winding things down,

after the two-inch things that sort of, yeah, and I think early November was a tour champ, maybe. So pretty much Americans have shut down, you know, they're doing their thing, and Australia was still going. So we're going back to summer, we're going back to golf. I was pretty much still engine up the temperature. I'd been working on a couple of good things and I'd go into play fans that actually I started with a bogey on the first hole and already had a pissy attitude. I'm like, it's snap-walk, into the big long like cane grass, took a drop like, oh this is great, great start to the tournament. I think I make a 15 footer and lo and behold off I go and I don't know who I beat or how what I won by whatever but I'm like okay. I think that's the one

I mean I did that and that would have been oh Was that a force again like I said you have to start did nothing that year or even that where I finished But the cool thing that really that I remember was the next year I was we're basically Preset we're set to have a C-section. I'll watch over first-aid. And that was going to happen like Wednesday after Capelua. So she's super pregnant and she's back in a tryer and I'm just like so chuffed and we've had to be like a dad first on dad. And I just I was playing well. I just had a beautiful attitude. Like honestly I look back and go man that was the greatest asset to have

is that beautiful mind, that calm mind, playing well, but you don't give a shit. You're dangerous when you're like that. And I was like, oh, life's awesome. You know, life's amazing. I literally flew out that Sunday night after the winning, landed her Tuesday, had the baby, the 20-karles later after landing.

And so come back to the 24 hours later after landing. So come back to the tournament a year later. I've got my one year old baby with you. And I'm like, how good is it? You know, here ago I'd won two years ago and now come back. I've got my little one year old, I like it great. My wife's already about to drop another kid in a couple of months' time in March. And I remember thinking, you know, I love this place.

I know this place and I just like it was something about it and look I had form I had good vibes and I what I did really well there was apart from having a great mindset and feeling very comfortable with I just seem to pull the right club in a pretty tough off course from from the hills and the lies and the wind and the angles but I read the eyeballs out of the greens. I had a real thing going on you every break and people you say, oh, you know, you won't cup a lure again. Why don't you do that somewhere else?

And I go, no shit, Sherlock. I mean, that's the secret. How do you take something there and move it 4,000 miles east? You know, that was a great stretch and I had a lot of great fond memories there. You touched on some of the amazing times of your life there. It's a topic that I can't imagine that is pleasant to talk about, but you had an unspeakable tragedy in 1998 that was tied. It happened at the Open Championship when your wife tragically passed away suddenly.

I'm sure you've been asked about this a ton, but I just want to know how that really affected your golf career. How did you come back from that and how that directly relates to your golf career? I'm wondering if you could expand on that. Yeah. You know, my brother and I passed away a bit over a month ago now and past the way a bit over a month ago now and one of the championship guys you could have a meet to marry my sister and he was taken about he was a little bit younger than me not much. It's rock to a world and she's got two boys and I certainly made me look back and think about 98

for me and I look back as a lot of it I don't remember. I honestly think the brain has elated to some of the side what goes in the trash bin. I remember the day, I was going, we're going to go on a tunnel trip across the Paris. And what felt like, you know, literally having breakfast, you know, videotaping, things we've been doing and stuff, having breakfast to having breakfast to me being rushed off in an ambulance in London to be told, you know, my wife had passed away in what literally was only Alice from breakfast still being told that. And I had some friends in Frames and Friends of ours and I and myself who were in London who who I got in contact with and to be told that I had obviously my management use so they were on top of a lot of stuff my coach and my dad you know they were heading to London you know and a lot of all of that was a bit of a blur.

I remember pretty much straight away thinking I I'm done, golf's done. F this, this is done, I'm done. I've gone from Absorbed into it, I want to win, I want to play golf, I want to compete, I want to measure myself through F it, I'm done. This is bullshit, this is not worth shit. And I went back to Australia obviously, you know, I was living up with my in-laws there and, you know, it's like, I don't, you know, I just, you know, I was gutted. I don't know what to do. And I don't know where in the story and that portion of the days and weeks

immediately following Renee's passing that I thought, you know what, I got to go back to go. I got to go back to go. I got to do something that I know. And I don't remember doing any practice. I remember going to the PGA. I think it was in Sahali out where. I felt like only a handful weeks later. I'm not quite sure on that. I think it was three weeks later. Was it three weeks? I I'm not quite sure on that. I think it was three weeks later. Was it three weeks? I remember doing a media conference that week. I don't remember, I sort of remember a little bit of it.

I don't remember much goal. I can only imagine a stranger would have been for everybody else, the other players and so on, there to see this guy on the range. You know, I was in whatever fairy land I don't know. I mean, losing my wife was I mean, I was crying myself this week every night for months and months and months and the one thing was, you know, if anyone's lost someone dear to them, whatever age it might be, I would be like, what if I could have been with her for 30, 40, 50 years of marriage? Is it harder to lose somebody?

Then, or is it harder to lose somebody now? You're trying to measure things. I remember thinking, you've lost a great friend, your wife, your caddy, someone you laughed with, who was a golfer, who was a funny, funny person. And I was like, you know what, just people out there doing it worse than you. There's people out there that have lost whole family, however it might have been, quickly. And part of me made me feel like, you know what, this is awful, but shit, it's not as

bad as it can get. And I don't know when I started to feel better. I certainly felt better when I met Ashley, met my wife, and sort of lateish summer 2000. I was like, no, it was so not felt different. And she was a champion, is a champion that what I say was, was through that period of me not knowing to take a shittle, you know, get off the pot.

I really didn't know what to do. And it was tough. I honestly, I can hardly give people advice, but just know that when people talk about this, you know, there's someone special out here, that's bullshit. There's bullshit. There are hundreds of people in the world special for you. And's not one person don't ever let anyone give you that bullshit because

It really is just a connection and there's so many people you can connect with that you can fall in love with them and whatever story You want to tell and I definitely gave myself a second chance and being a parent now. I look and go man That must have been hard for a nice parents to have lost a child in their 20 mid 20s, late 20s. I don't know. I said, actually, I said, I don't know if I could go through losing a kid. I mean, I don't think I'd have the strength. I don't even know how I did it the first time, but I think this would be 10 times worth. Yeah.

Well, you answered every question I could have possibly had about that, but I do want to, you told a great story again in this golf digest article that I keep, keep citing about your first date with with your wife Ashley. I'm wondering if you could relay that story. Well, she would do a better job than me, but I remember, I mean, we were so I met her actually was a guy that only passed away recently. Guido, Guido was a guy. If anyone's listening to podcasting, those Guido who's probably around my age, Guido used to have these old antique golf clubs at five

at a country club for what was the bridge stone and old NEC, bridge stones, change to me sponsors. And Guido basically said to me, you should meet this girl. And I'm like, I had the odd person like that. And I was very, like I mentioned, gun shy. I don't know about other, you know, I didn't play the field at all, you know, I was never that in America or I was at a partner. But and then she got the same group. No, she made this Aussie guy, you know, blah blah blah. And so I met her and you know, she

walks away and I'm like, holy crap, she really got my attention. She's gorgeous and massive smile. We just exchanged phone numbers and started chatting and we chat two, three, four hours or not. On a phone, like a hotel phone. Can you believe that? Anyone does that now though. And so we have this dinner later in the week and I'm a pretty chill that person, but I think I was a little bit bit nervous but we're in this restaurant. I honestly I think I must have gone to the toilet like seven times in the night. I had like a bladder the size of a sleeve of golf hold and it was it was great and I and I think she you know I think there was something going on there and I flew out of town and called her up later

and we hooked up a handful of weeks later. It was actually a vagus and that sort of went a bit more serious. I think that we've had four kids since then and I guess I don't know, closing it on, I don't know, even though it's maybe 20 years of marriage. So, you know, a great thing came from a shitty thing and I think that's how golf is a bit like that too. You know, so much shitty golf that no one's people don't see, but somewhere in there, there's a diamond in the rough, the sure. Yeah. Well, one other topic that we couldn't let slide by is you were shooting 59 before

shooting 59 was cool. I mean, you were the fifth player to do it. I know there's been a lot since then but final round 59 to win by one. Is it only you and devolved it? Did that is that right? I think so but I'm not a stat. I'm not a big guy on stats and all that. I'm not a, you know, I never really paid attention to what stats specs I had in my golf equipment. I'm sort of like a, yeah, that feels good. Give me that and regroup it when it wears out, you know. But I, again, I mentioned before about Kappa Lua. I remember, you know, that beautiful mind that, that balance I had, you know, when I had it that week, well, I had it that Sunday. I must have had it that week, but I had it that Sunday.

I had my 11th week straight, I was just beat, I was done. Green, actually, let me rewind. I got asked to do the media day for the Green Bright Classic only because the player that was supposed to turn up, because no, normally winners turn up to do it. There was no winner. And I got called like the day or two days before the thing, hey, could you come, they're going to send you a jet, they'll take you to the green bride of stay there, blah, blah, blah. Why not? I'll do it.

So I go up there, I meet with Mr. Justice and the team and I'm like, holy cow, this is pretty cool. Do the media. I can't wait to have the tournament. blah, blah, blah. And go there on a Sunday and tied beat up. Just want to just I want to get out of there. It's my 11th week straight. I'm a blithering idiot. Although I'm playing well, my energy levels will low, my expectations will low and I think that's sort of that's that's the the sweet bit when you don't the expectations are quite subdued, but your skill level is quite high and your focus is still there. And that's how it, and maybe having Jeff Ovid and being the leader and me sort of getting up against him was a distractor. I had so many balls in

the juggling pile that I had no time to think about or worry about a 59 potentially, although it, 58 entered my mind at the turn. I thought, you know, if I come home with, if I come home like the front nine, which felt easy, I'll shoot a 58. Yep, that'll get it done. I'll do, let's shoot for that. That was easy. Let's do another one. And long behold, in the last three hours, I needed three birdies and,

and you know, I panned out and that was enough to escape with a victory. Yeah. Well, what's funny is you look at your wins and a lot of them are taking it deep, 31 under at Las Vegas and that's five rounds, but 22 under, 21 under. But what stuck out to me the most is eight of your nine wins were either playoff or by one stroke.

Did you consider, I guess, what doesn't list on your Wikipedia page is like how many other close calls you have, but would you consider, I guess, what doesn't list on your Wikipedia page is like how many other close calls you have, but would you consider your success like a very successful player in closing tournaments? I can't measure that. I don't even have an opinion. And I have an opinion on those things. Oh man, I feel like I probably should have caught should of.

Is that where it should have. I should have all over myself. I should have closed out probably two three four more events you know let them get away I mean easily but I mean Tiger would tell you he let 10 or 20 go away I don't know maybe more I would not say on the closer now I really actually I don't know I honestly don't know I can't even answer that by the you know Gary play I'll tell, I was three shots behind with four holes to go and I did this and I did that.

I can't tell you how I finished. I know I had a great hustle with painsture at Honda, my first win, with like 30, really, 30 something holes on Sunday and I was never a big leaderboard watcher. I always found the leaderboard. I was never probably, I was never probably good enough to handle the pressure of deciding what looking at the leaderboard would mean

to me. I always felt like I was better to shut up and get internal and just do my thing and know that if I control my mind, I can potentially control the golf ball and once I control the golf ball, I control the scorecard. That's how I get hold of a trophy. I was never a jack necklace who could stare up or a tiger or many others. So, like I mentioned, I put the blinkers on as what I was good at. And whether it equal closing form, that's up for you sporty guy. Oh, I think that answers the question right there. I think that's a successful formula that worked for you.

You mentioned pain, Stuart, there. You guys were close personal friends. When did that relationship start and kind of what was the nature of your guys relationship? You know, I hate to play sentimental, but man, he would have been an awesome neighbor to have. The amount of times that I could have turned on him and said, dude, what do you think? What's your advice? Like, I would never beg on that, but I think he would have been the guy that I would have gone to.

He would have been brilliant, because he's so honest. He was such an honest character. And I struck up a friendship with him because he spent a lot of time around Aussie being that he's white to Australian, he's been in Australia, played that Asia. He pretty much, hey, come on, let's go play a practice round.

And he was always like that. I remember seeing off in San Diego, it totally pined in pea soup fog. Like, you know, that's what he was like. And I remember once scraping my spike. Remember them spike? I had all this debris on the bottom of my shoe and I scraped it off, I went up to the green.

And he looks at me and goes, what are you doing, R goes, what are you doing rookie? What are you doing? I remember looking down and going, you're an idiot, I believe you don't clean your spikes on the green like that's how honesty was. He made a mean margarita, invited me around many times for margaritas and I don't even bell even, drunk and he boozed then. He was great and unfortunately we had to a championship over in Houston. And we were playing very quiet, no one out there. And my caddy, Joe Damiano, my caddy, long time caddy Joe wasn't on.

His buddy was walking around, big Eric, and he said, he was telling us, I think there's an issue, I think there's a problem, I think, you know, the story. And we're like, no, really no. And then when we get in the clubhouse, we all find out. And lo and behold, it was for real. And the weird thing was I just signed a private plane contract for whatever a small share of a small jet. And I flew back to Orlando by myself.

And it's not hard to make your mind wonder about, you know, a pain situation. And it was a really strange week. I think we all dressed up. I wore some of the pain's actual plus four clothes that week, which Tracy gave me. And I don't remember much about that week, to be honest, except me wearing his clothes a little bit.

And being a tough, tough, tough place. And luckily enough, Tracy has done an amazing job with Chelsea and Aaron. They're now big, big girls, big boys and grown up in the world. And as a father, a parent, I couldn't be proud of what she's done. And that some of the most dueling, tough circumstances. And you've had a relationship with their kids, Chelsea and Aaron, for quite some time, as I understand it.

Yeah, Chelsea, not so much. much Aaron a little bit on and off. I just played golf with Aaron the other day actually. It's so much further than me now. I remember playing with him when he was just a kid. Now, you know, he smokes a great person. Great people again as a parent. That's all you're looking for is just get my kids to be good people in society. And they'll find their way.

And he's just like his dad so much dad so much joke and so much fun NEM. Sometimes it sucks when someone like that and you know we obviously Kobe you know it feels like yesterday and it'll feel like 10 years yesterday when he's gone and you think oh if you know sporting athlete that people can act with gone and you think, oh, if you know sporting athlete, the people can act with and it's just not always fair, but unfortunately this stuff's going on that a lot of people don't hear about. It's, uh, aren't with us anymore and by short, and, uh, you know, I love Tracy, she's a champion and my wife actually plays tennis and she loves tennis and I just sort of wonder where the, where the late 90s is going to now and uh...

that pain he would have been an asset for us and really would have been out on to it have been absolutely a great leader uh... for the generations before well few more here in a promise will let you go but uh... you said in this two thousand seven the golf digest interview quote if i have ten or 15 more good years of golf, I'd go back and stay, meaning Australia.

Fortunately, my American wife Ashley fell in love with Australia the first time she saw it. So America's my physical home and Australia is my spiritual home. That was 13 years ago. So we're in that between 10 or 15 more years. Any thoughts to going back to Australia then? Well Jeff, I was able to move a little even be two years ago in January I think,

I mean, I'm not quite me, but Ashley, she's American, Akron, Ohio, or Canton, North Canton, Ohio, where she's from. She loves Australia more than me maybe. I love the US. I mean, I've got, here I am talking to you on a podcast. You think that's going to happen in Australia? You think that the Champions Tour in Australia, is there any, you know, I like to get out of Ed and do stuff. And probably I don't think I can sit on a beach and sit cocktails or

just think around and plant my daffodils in the backyard. So don't you question, no, I think I'm here. I think maybe, maybe, maybe the chance where my kids go up and bite his when I was sort of in my mid 20s and be up and down left and left. I think there's a chance, but you know my youngest is only 910, you know, so you're, oh easy eight, I can't even remember now, that's just too many kids. You know, I'm going to be with, they're going to be here for a good 20 odd years and I love the US, I love Australia, I don't like their flies, I can tell you, I'm giving you a warning, you don't look Australian summer, there's sons of bitches who are driving crazy. And I just, I'm not gonna get it. And there's so much opportunity here. The people are so into their game

and golf. But I think my wife could up and leave air and heart, and her sister lives there too, which is even more of a little flaw. This is a question we love to ask, basically, players of your generation. So we had this thing we call the Tiger Tax, which basically one of our guys, he did a study that estimated how much money that Tiger put in in the wallets of other players. And we love to ask players this number,

which is if you were to get taxed, if you were to pay a Tiger Tax for what he has kind is added into the game, what would you estimate of your earnings that would be? What percentage? Oh, how much of a difference he made? Yeah. Oh, look, the tools that say you, approximately in the mid-90s, onwards that they were growing

exponentially, they were growing. You go talk to the TV guys, I'm sure they say there small kick whatever the tiger changed the dynamics the ratings. Yes, how much? Seeing I was in the thick of it. I'd say three quarters, half the three quarters of my earnings. I think we're target related, but I mean the growth, the growth from the 80s to the 2000s, so 20-year chunks has been a massive. And the last 10 years is ridiculous now. So yeah, I think substantial, I think substantial. I was aware of that probably within the first 10 years

of my career going holy cow. I think when I won Honda I won 200 and something thousand and then I think that then maybe within the at last of my victories might have been over a million. So that's a big change in 20 years. Big. No, the answer we usually. That big deal. Yeah. No, the answer we usually get around half from most guys. So I haven't heard as much as three quarters.

But last one, I'll let you out on this. What are your favorite courses to play in Australia? I think any other sandal courses are probably my favorite. I know that you turn gets used loosely, but it is a being that I was at the president's cup. I just walking around rural Melbourne or the president's cup. I just walk around, Royal Melbourne, or the president's cup lay out of Royal Melbourne, and I'm like, holy cow, she's like the bowdarek.

I mean, she's still got it. I mean, I just wanted to be out there so bad, but I was such a, you know, I played golf like a total re-read now, and I just can't, and I'm like, I'm jealous, I just love to have those skills of bunkering and little Melbourne, since then he, those are some of the two greatest

metropolitan Sydney courses are pretty good. They're not as maybe a quiet, I mean, you shout whales, they've got, of course, no one's a lot of peruse in most people, but not hurt off. It's like a real rough and ready pebble beach on the ocean, probably too short today, but oh my god, blows 20 to 40 miles an hour every day. Yeah, I'd say the Sandberg courses are romantic side for me, but

I love, I'm probably missing a good 25 top courses in America, then I hear about people saying, you're playing here, I get no, oh man, you've got to play. So to be honest, I've played a lot of great majors and tournaments and British Open and those, but there's so much in the US that I've not played that I'd love to get out, but it's been a cool adventure to go to, I've played a lot of these great courses, I go to tell you. Yeah, that's great. We'll have to have you back on here to talk more. I was trailing golf in about 50 other topics, but I am gonna let you go now,

but really, really appreciate the time. This was an absolute blast, and we will have you back absolutely any time that you're available. Well, I'm glad we didn't drop down the wormhole. How's that? I'll do that another. There's 80 different wormholes I would gladly go down with you,

but Mr. Applebee, thank you very much for joining. Hopefully we'll be catch up soon, and thanks so much for your time. Anytime, thanks for chatting with us. Cheers. very much for joining hopefully be catch up soon and thanks thanks so much for your time Anytime thanks with chat love that cheers Be the right club today That's better than most How about him? That is better than most Better than most.