No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 326: Chris Kirk

Episode Date: July 1, 2020

Chris Kirk stepped away from the game in 2019 due to alcoholism and anxiety issues. Now sober, he reflects on his personal journey, when he realized he had a problem, how he addressed it, and how he rebounded to win on the Korn Ferry Tour a few weeks ago. We also discuss his 2014 season, not getting a Ryder Cup selection, a tee ball that traveled 55 yards, and a lot more. We sincerely appreciate Chris' openness and willingness to come on the podcast to discuss some difficult topics.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yeah. That's better than most. How about in? That is better than most. Better than most Ladies and gentlemen welcome back to the no laying up podcast Chris Kirk is today's guest It already feels like a long time ago that he won the King and the Bear classic Last week we can a half ago here on the corn fairy tour first start on the corn fairy like a decade, and he wins it. He's got pretty amazing story,

and I'm excited for you guys to hear until I'm not going to take too much of your time. Over the past weekend, the travelers Will Gordon earned himself quite a few more playing opportunities. His T3 finished got a special temporary membership. He had the most birdies in the field with 27, which by my quick math is almost seven per round.

I know it's not the toughest golf course in the world, but you got to hit the shots and we'll did it under supreme pressure, about as much pressure as you can play under as far as trying to get a make a livelihood on the PGA tour. He did that with the Callaway Maverick Max Driver, Apex Pro Irons, JAWS Wedges, and his two-long San Diego Stroke Lab putter.

While we're on the topic of Callaway staffers, they want to let you know that the latest installment of the Hendrick Stenson, almost an hour podcast, is available this week in it. You can hear Hendrick's thoughts on younger players on tour, like Will Gordon, and of those in the new crop, which ones will have the best career of the next 20 years. Also you can hear what he thinks about how the tour is handling the COVID situation, whether he thinks they should pause or not. And in lighter news, who's Hendrix, Hendrix's favorite writer cut partner of all time, all

that and more on the Hendrix Dense and almost an hour podcast. Without any further delay, here is Chris Kirk. So it seems like you kept the game sharp during the layoff. What are games like in Athens and take us to what you've got on your own property as far as golf practice facility? Yeah, in my place, we live in Athens, Georgia, on about 40 acres or so, South of town. I've got a putting green room and a driving range out back where I can hit balls and work on wedges and just do whatever. I think

a lot more baseball gets played on the driving range than golf, but that's how it goes with a bunch of little kids running around here. Do you use a backyard driving range as much? Like I don't have one of these, of course. I'm most people at home don't have one of these. And I in my head, I think, you know, I would be there every single day if it was right there in front of me. But I in my head, I think, you know, I would be there every single day if it was right there in front of me. But is it like that in reality? No, I don't use it as much as you would think. If I'm really going to go try to get some quality practice in or play, obviously, I'm still going to go out to the golf course. But it's,

it is awesome being able to go out, you know, out, go out with the kids after dinner and hit a few balls or if I'm working on something or mess around with a different club, it's awesome to be able to just walk out your door and go hit 10, 3 woods down there or whatever. And yeah, it's been fantastic to have and really a beautiful part of the property. Where do you play your golf when you're home and what are what are the games like there? Who do you play with? Are there other pros in the area that you tee it up with often and kind of take us to what that looks like?

I play mostly at Athens Country Club. There's a few other places in town, Jennings Mill Country Club, I'll play at Eastern Amount and the UGA course as well. I haven't been able to play out there. They've been shut down for a number of months now. During the shutdown over the last few months, Stewart Sink has organized a good many games at TBC Sugarloaf and then Ben Kinney, the owner of Galkovah, Georgia,

had some money games going on out there as well. So I would maybe play one of those a week, something like that, just to try to stay somewhat sharp. Some what sharp I think is a bit of an understatement. You just had your first win first win on the corn fairy tour in 10 years. You haven't played in the corn fairy tour in 10 years. I want to know, you know, we're going to get to kind of all the other things you've had going on in your life here in recent years. But what is it like for a seasoned veteran on the PJ tour to drop down a level to play a corn fairy event?

What is, how do you, you know, what's really different about that and how do you approach that, you know, compared to a PJ tour event? As far as approach, I wouldn't say I approach any differently, but it definitely felt different. You know, you're playing Colonial the Week before, even though there's no fans out there, there's still TV production crews. They still had ropes up for some reason. I'm not really sure why, but, and there's still just kind of feels like a PGA tour event a lot going on with the cornferior tour event.

There's obviously no spectators. There's no TV crews, any of that kind of stuff. So it definitely felt different. I've actually played a few mini tour events this year. So I wouldn't say it felt quite like that, but definitely different, not a whole lot going on. One of the funnier things that happened during the week, you know, we're coming down the stretch

on a Saturday last round, trying to win the golf tournament and knowing we're in pretty good shape, but there's no leaderboards out there at all. So I've always heard people complain that the PGA tour app does not update as fast as they would like for it to. And I got to experience a little bit of that first hand in the 18th fairway with my phone out trying to get the thing to refresh so that I would know if I needed to make par a birdie to win. So we were just kind of laughing, like Katie, Michael and I were just kind of laughing about that, trying to, you know, it shows you how different things are right now that we've got our phones out trying to

look at scores and figure out what we need to make on the last soul of a tournament. But competition-wise, obviously, guys are shooting nothing out there, and everybody that you play with flies at 300 and it's just the future of golf. You got a lot of guys out there that are, you know, mid to early 20s and I was the, the old man out there for sure. Well, it's funny. You, you didn't really help my case that I've, you know, tried to make over the years, which is if you took a top PGA tour player and if they played a season on the Cornfairy tour

and I think I asked JT this, I can't remember if it was on the pod or not, but it's like, hey, if you played a season down there, like, what would you, how many times would you expect to win? And his answer, he was quick to say, like, not as much as you would think. Like, you don't necessarily just drop down and be able to dominate there, especially just because of the way those golf courses play compared to the PGA tour,

they're not as good as separating out the field as PGA tour courses are. So in particular, this course, you shoot 26 under par. What, how are you able to separate out yourself out and know you only one by one, but how are you able to be the low man? What's the difference maker, I guess, on a golf course like that,

where it's just a pure racetrack, and it's just a birdie fest. How does that change anything in like, in the competitive landscape of the event? I think the difference for me this past week was really just avoiding mistakes. I made double bogey on number 10 in the last round, but that had no bogey's the whole rest of the week.

So everybody's going to make some birdies and get it rolling. But I was able to really maintain my momentum almost the entire week. Whenever I did get in a situation where I needed to get up and down for par, I did it a few times. I would have a 10 footer for par and I kept making them. That was the difference for sure.

I think this past week that I was able to keep up with everybody as far as making birdies and then for the majority of the week was able to eliminate mistakes and not ever losing any of that momentum. Well, you're kind of ruining a good storyline that was going, which was that you were first alternate for RBC and that you chose to go play the corn fair instead and went in one, but can you explain kind of how that wasn't necessarily the case? Yeah, that was not the case.

I don't really know what I would have done if I had actually been the first alternate where I would have gone. Because you didn't go up to RBC, right? No, I did not. So the RBC field size was supposed to be 144 players, but there were more more exempt players than that. So they play beyond the field size. They did the same thing in LA earlier this year. I think around the the start of the tournament, there's maybe 150, 151 guys. So in order for an alternate to get in, even though I was

first alternate, in order for an alternate to get in, even though I was first alternate, in order for an alternate to get in, the field size would have to go down below 144. So effectively, I was seventh or eighth alternate or something like that. So there was no real real decision to make. Like I said, if I had been actually first alternate, I'm really not sure what I would have done. Yeah. So what does this win, I swear I don't mean this as directly as I'm gonna ask it. What does this win do for you? Because it of course is great to go out there

and win a corn fairy event, but you're not gonna compete on the corn fairy tour and it doesn't really do a lot for you on the PGA Tourist terms of status. Am I understanding that right? I hope that's a fair question. I just wondered what your big takeaway is from it. Yeah, that's a fair question.

In the short term, my hope is that it gives me a little bit of confidence. In the long term, my situation with my tour status right now, I have 10 more starts on my medical extension, which should carry me through roughly to the end of the calendar year. And then at that point, I will either have regained my full status on the tour, or possibly could end up in the 126th to 15th category,

or possibly the worst case for me would be in the past champion category. So if that were the case, I would probably play pretty good bit on the cornferry tour next year. And so because they have kind of a two-year-long combined season this year and next year to get PGA tour cards for the following year, it'll pretty much just give me a good head start with having a win on that tour to be able to try to finish top 25 there and get back to the PGA tour that way. So it makes my worst case scenario a little bit better.

Okay. That makes sense. That is some good color to add because I'm looking at it. I'm like, man, this is great that he won. But how does he get, he gets no FedEx cup points for this. And it really does it contribute much on the medical front. But, well, I wanna know, from what I've gathered, it's pretty close as far as,

at least from a ball striking perspective, comparing how you're hitting the ball right now, how you're playing right now with, I think you peaked it, I think 16th in the world at one point. Just compare it, it doesn't necessarily have to say as good. What's different or kind of compare your game now and how you feel now compared to as good as you've ever felt? I would say ball striking wise is as good or possibly better than it ever has been. Physically,

I feel very good through some of the different workout stuff that I've done and some swing speed stuff. I'm actually hitting it further than I did previously in my career. I got to say your Instagram videos don't keep up with Bryce. They don't keep up with Bryson. So that's all I can say. No, no, and they never will. That's for sure. But for me, somebody who's, who's typically been someone that's been in the 112-113 mile-prayer

range with their driver to now just a normal cruise control speed of around 116 and the ability to swing 120. That's a big difference for me. It kind of tips me from below average to keeping up with everybody. I'd say my putting has been very inconsistent over the last few years. And a lot of that's probably just confidence. Short game has been good, especially last last two weeks, my short game was excellent. So I'm hoping to be able to continue that trend. And then last week I

potted really great. I found something I was able to get into a groove just trying to, honestly, just trying to be a little bit less perfect. I think I got a little bit too caught up in trying to, I was working on all the right things and working on my stroke and really working hard on my green reading and all that kind of stuff, which is all great stuff in practice, but I was probably bringing it to competitive golf a little bit too much and trying to be too perfect when I was putting in, as opposed to just having it be a little bit more of a reaction and feel based thing. So I was able to do a better job of that last week and thankfully everything came together. But more than that, I would say really just

from my hiatus last year and then having another break this year, it's been difficult at times mentally to just be out there and have the same amount of self-belief that I had when I was playing really well in the top 50 in the world. So hopefully last week will be a step in the right direction as far as that's concerned and we'll be able to continue to build some momentum going forward. A quick break here to check in with our friends at Urban Active. You know Urban Active, they are of course the CBD company of choice for all of us here

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So again, herbalactive.com, use promo code NOU20. Let's get back to Chris Kirk. Yeah, you touched on a lot there as far as, you know, the things that I think would lead up to what you announced on May 7th, 2019, which is when you announced that you were taking a leave of absence from the PGA tour to deal with depression and alcoholism. And I kind of want to get into the timeline of things here. And I think I've read all there is to read, and I know that there's a lot to address in

the segment, but you seem very open and honest about everything, which I really do think that so much good can come from that, and just from the interviews I've watched from you too, it seems like you get a lot of energy from that. But I want to start at that point when you announce that you are going to be stepping away from golf. You've taken the proper steps it seems to address things since then, but what was that like at that moment to announce that to the golf world?

I guess what was, did you have any fear about taking that step? You know, at the time that, you know, a lot had led up to that. And so that was what felt like a real last resort for me, an act of desperation to try to somehow salvage my life, really. You know, I had first tried to stop drinking in November of 2018. That was when I kind of talked to some close friends, family, my inner support group on the tour and told them that, you know, this

is something that I'm struggling with and I'm going to stop out appreciating, you know, support. It didn't go well. Kind of battled it for six months or so, multiple reapses and was just miserable, you know. I think that I definitely struggle more with anxiety than depression can lead to that. But I think my anxiety had kind of been building for a few years and I started drinking more and more as a way to combat that. And then once I took the alcohol,

which was kind of my medicine away, my anxiety just got worse and worse. And so I just wasn't doing well. I was trying to control an uncontrollable situation and was thinking along the lines of, I can do this, I can do this. And then after, there were some episodes in including the last time I drank April 28th, I count April 29th

as my sobriety date. Just a few real wake up calls to like, okay, not only are you not completely in control of this, you have zero control over this. So stopping playing golf, I kind of had to get to the point where I need to get away from this because if I don't do something about this now and if I don't figure this out, then I'm going to lose everything anyway. So what does it matter? I didn't know what was gonna be the result as far as from a tourist status standpoint, and I didn't care.

I called the tour and just said, hey, this is what I'm doing. I understand this is probably not gonna be covered under any type of medical extension, and that's fine. If I decide to play golf again, then I'll address it then. But for right now, I'm gonna just get away from it for an unknown period of time.

And they were very supportive right away and they didn't tell me anything right away. But Andy Pazzer, Rosperlin, Jay Monahan, they were extremely supportive of me, and we're really happy for me that I was doing the right thing and taking some steps to try to get back to a better place in my life. And Jay was great. He called me to check on me every now and then throughout the whole process, Andy Pazzer as well. I definitely felt a lot of love and support from those guys. I was able to find the right people here and Athens people

that are in a similar situation to me and really kind of get some answers as far as what was happening to me and why it was happening and find the right path for me to go down. You touched on a couple of things here. And I guess I'll leave this up to you as to where you think this story starts, but hearing you kind of explain what you mean by anxieties or what your anxieties were and how that contributed to the alcohol. Along those same lines, I just want to kind of understand

what your relationship was like with alcohol, maybe around the time that you really started to feel this uptick in anxiety and how those two work together. And again, that's up to you kind of as to where that starts, which one leads to what? Well, first of all, I had always been someone who really liked to drink and liked to drink socially and it was all for a party whenever. But I think that it changed when my anxiety kind of got worse. And so the way I look at it is that I would, when it started getting bad,

I would take a very rational thought, something that I would be worried about, you know, worried about that I played bad one day or worried about whatever, it doesn't matter. Something, you know, we all worry about stuff. It's very, very natural. So I would take that thought, and then I would, that would change to something else, and then that would change to something

else, and that would change to something else, and it would be sort of a snowball effect. And within the matter of a few hours, I would get to the point where I was like, I've got to sell my house. I need to quit and find another job. I've got to do, you know, I'm not going to be able to afford to pay electricity bill next month and all these things that when, you know, when I look at it now and if you, it looked at it from the outside, then you would say, that makes no sense.

Like, it's completely irrational. But at the time it was it was very, very real, just as real as the first thought was. So as that kind of continued to happen, I just was basically searching for a way to shut my brain off and stop all that. And so that was what I did. And I remember it very well, just like to be able to drink to the point where I could just sit there and stare at the wall if I wanted to and not think about anything. And so it was effective medicine for a while, but then eventually it stops working and it can

make it even worse. And so that kind of touches on where when I did stop drinking the first time and tried to, then a lot of that anxiety was able to kind of flow out without anything to slow it down. And so at what point are you, I guess, is April 29th again, 2019 is when the day you stop drinking or you sobriety date, is this when you finally, I guess, take the step or what triggers you to understand

that you need to actually address the anxiety and then the alcohol kind of is a contributing factor down the road. But if I'm addressing the anxiety, I have a much better chance at addressing the alcohol issue. Well, I didn't see it that clearly at that time. I just basically knew that something is very wrong and I've got to do something about it if I don't want to completely crash and burn here.

So through talking with doctors, psychiatrists, therapists, getting involved with a support group here, kind of a combination of everything, I was able to really gain some mental clarity, especially after, you know, it takes a while. When you stop doing something like that, your body kind of gets used to, I was just kind of, it just felt strange and not good for a while, for weeks. And then a while for weeks. And then after I was kind of my body normalized a little bit, then I was able to, you know, through the various avenues of help that I was getting, was able to just get a lot better picture of what was really going on and kind of learn

about just how powerless I was and what I needed to do to not necessarily regain power because that doesn't happen. But to make the shift from all of this fear, anxiety, and worry about the future and about what's gonna happen next to shift that to fully embracing the complete uncertainty of life, something that I was deathly afraid of, to now where I see it completely from the other side of the mirror,

where I mean, now I think, you know, how awesome is it that I don't have a clue what's gonna happen next, you know? But as long as I do things the right way, as long as I treat people fairly, as long as I make sure that I'm a good husband and a father. And I stay in my program and stay connected with the people that I care about.

It doesn't matter what happens next. It's all good. I'm ready for whatever. And I'm excited about that life is a total mystery. I mean, it'd be boring if we knew it, I already knew what was going to happen. Well, any chance I get to make this point, I do, and I'm sure some people roll their eyes at it, because when you and I say that, tour life isn't necessarily always glitz and glam or where,

you know, you've done quite well with career earnings, and you could play golf for a living, is kind of where the buck stops with a lot of golf fans or they don't want to see it any other way than that. But you're on the road a ton. You're away from your family in your case because we understand that they, once you had kids, they weren't necessarily traveling with you very often. You're in hotel rooms alone. You're in locations for a long period of time.

It's not like an NBA team flying as a team, you know, from city to city. You kind of are in these spots for a long time by yourself. So did that environment that you're in weekend, week out, do that, I mean, how much did that really contribute or double down on some of the issues you were having? I absolutely did. Yeah, so I've kind of changed the way that I do things and I travel now. But yeah, the time away from my family definitely wore on me and just getting to the point where maybe even before, you know, because there's no clear definite point where you go from a social drinker to an alcohol like it doesn't happen overnight. So as I was trending in that direction, my physical fitness

became worse and worse. My mental clarity and judgment became worse. So obviously, my golf game was not keeping up with where it was. So the combination of the time away from my family, which I hated, and then I could feel myself slowly declining. And just the pressure of trying to combat that and still be competitive and be one of the best players in the world, and then on top you know, when you're not playing as well as you used to. And, you know, I don't say this much because I completely understand the golf fans that say, you know, our life is gravy. We make millions of dollars. We travel and play awesome golf courses, and that's all true

But when you're out there and you're getting your brains beat in every week I mean no matter what level you're at failure sucks It's not fun. I mean you got on on the PJ tour and you missed a bunch of cussing around it sucks I'm sorry it you know people may or may not wanna hear that, but it's the truth. And so it was a combination of all those things for me for sure. Yeah, a lot of people roll their eyes whenever I try to compare anything of the pro game to the mid-AM life,

but I has helped me understand so many more things about the day and day out stuff that you guys go through. And I can say that even two day tournaments where I'm staying overnight, if you play bad in round one, you immediately just want to be transported home. Like you don't want to draw, you just like, I just want to be on my couch right now. I can't believe I have to...

Teleport. Yeah, I just want to be done with this. And it was a horrible feeling. And I'm playing for nothing, not my livelihood. It's hard to explain kind of where you're coming from on that. But I do think I understand it to one, maybe one percent of what you guys go through. Yeah, sometimes it can happen around the turn on,

you know, teleport, get me out of here. Well, so how did you, how did this affect your play? I mean, were you ever to the point where you're drinking before or during rounds or was, you know, were you dealing with hangovers, you know, for morning tea times, how did it, you know, tangibly affect the way you were playing professionally? Um, hangover sometimes. It's strange. I'm not sure why this is, but I've never really been much of one to drink while playing golf,

not even at home socially. I just always saw that this is my job. I shouldn't drink while I'm doing my job. I'm thankful that I thought that because who knows what could have gotten to. But yeah, I would say, yeah, I played hungover sometimes, and it typically would have been in that case where you're talking about where you play bad on Thursday, and you're just going through the motions on Friday

to Mr. Cut and get out town. But not, you know, probably not as often as you would think. It was always like a balancing act for me, trying to figure out, okay, how much can I drink tonight where I won't feel terrible tomorrow, but then also like I knew in this probably should have been more of a warning sign than it was. But if I ever did have the occasional off night where I didn't have anything to drink, I felt I felt where

weird the next day from that. It was this juggling act that was just it was exhausting trying to balance all that and then all the other stuff that I had going on of the anxiety and all that that kind of thing. was, yeah, it was exhausting. I think that's the best word for it. And I'm just very hesitant to ask questions about alcoholism mainly because I think about four years ago, or so we had David Farrity on the podcast, and it was supposed to be a 30 minute interview.

It got chopped down to 15 minutes, and I'm rushing through a question. And I honestly think about this almost daily, asking it this way. I said, you know, you've been through some things in the past, those troubles are behind you and I'm trying to get to a question. And he just kind of stops me and says, like, no, that's not how it works. Like every day is, every day is a struggle and I just felt so horrible about that afterwards and so like just that I didn't understand what I was talking about. But as I say that, acceptance is a word

that I hear so often when it comes, you know, to alcoholism and I hear you speak on it and it sounds like acceptance and giving up the, or kind of understanding that you're not in control. Is that, I guess, when did you start to learn that lesson? How did you learn that lesson? And I kind of want to know like what also you're doing, you know, how often you're going to meetings

or what you're doing to treat it on a day-to-day basis? Yeah, I mean, the program of recovery that I've chosen to take has taught me a lot about all that. And I don't necessarily see it as a daily struggle. It is a daily thing. And, you know, I definitely stay very well connected with my support group in various different ways. But yeah, it is definitely something that you don't complete the 12 steps and then say, okay, that was great. I can

just kind of go on with my life now. It definitely doesn't work that way. It's one of the things where you just have to keep in mind and I have to remind myself constantly, is that there's a very clear reason why I'm doing so much better than I was two years ago. So you can't just, it's not like you, if you want to compare it to golf, you can't just practice for a year or so, it goes shoot 65 and then be like, okay, that's it. I'm going to shoot 65 every day from now on. It doesn't work that way. You got to keep practicing and keep working at it.

But I don't see it as a daily struggle and onto the point where I am certainly not ashamed of it and to the point where I would say I don't even regret any of it because look at all the blessings that I've been given over the past year and look at how much happier I am and the mental clarity that I have and how genuine and strong the relationships that I have are with the people that I love. I'm in a better place now than maybe any other time in my adult life. So it sounds crazy, but it's almost a gift, to be honest. And I've learned so much about myself and I'm able to see things for what they are. I think when you hear that, hear me describe it that way,

that kind of gives you a glimpse into why. I'm so comfortable talking about it and why I'm willing to be open about it. Yeah, this is going to be a kind of long win and maybe a two-part question at the end of this. But one thing, just working full-time in golf for three years now, I see just how prevalent alcohol is in general. And I'm not even talking about drinking on the golf course. I mean, it's just, I can safely say, the number of nights I drink per week has gone up just as a function of being around golf for whatever the reason that would be.

So did you hear from anyone in the game of golf maybe that reached out to you, kind of talking about some of the issues, they may be battle with alcohol, and with your new perspective on it, are you able to maybe spot issues that other people out there, either on tour, or caddies, or agents, or anyone that's out there, do you feel like you kind of have a new perspective that might be able to help someone on that,

before they even realize any help? Yeah, I have had a number of people reach out to me, and it's an honor and a privilege to be able to lend any kind of words of encouragement or any advice or anything like that that I can. I'm here to help any other people in any way that I can. But now I wouldn't say I really go looking for it or I'm not going to, you know, people in my situation, if someone has an issue and you just go tell them about it, then they're going to tell you to take a hike pretty quick, you know.

I was definitely that way. You don't really, until you have something slap you in the face, you are the last person to know kind of that you're an alcoholic sometimes, because you've built up this whole system of lying to yourself and denial and justifying crazy things and in your head it all makes sense. I'm never going to put anything on anybody. Obviously, if somebody comes to me and wants advice or wants help, and I'm there no matter what,

but I'm not gonna ever try to tell anybody else what they need to do unless they ask. Yeah, to be clear, I didn't necessarily mean that you would go up to people, but I would just wonder, and if it's easier, something easier to spot, I guess, or something that you would be able to recognize much faster now that you've gone through it.

Yeah, maybe so. But I mean, a lot of people, if they're like me, I don't think that my wife had an idea of what was going on, but I even was able to hide a lot of things from her. I mean, I was very careful about who saw what I was doing when and all that kind of thing. It was all very calculated thing for me because I didn't want, you know, something that I was not obviously not proud of and wanted to keep hidden the best I could. So yeah, you never know, but it's just happy to be a resource for anybody that has questions or wants any advice on anything in that realm.

Well, I think that successfully addresses this issue and I promise we can have some more fun here on the back half of this. But this might not be the best transition to more fun, but it does have a happy ending, I promise. But I was walking out of the memorial tournament in, I think it's 2018. It's a Friday evening, and I stumbled upon your group on the ninth tee. And it was you. I knew it was one of you guys were out there. I thought, I mean, I'll let you go and tell the story. No, you tell the story. All right, all right. The whole thing that kind of blew up on social media,

I thought it was hilarious. The backstory is Friday afternoon, finishing on number nine, Mirfield Village Memorial Tournament. And I'm just kind of scraping it along trying to try and make the cut. I hit a really nice shot and there are two about eight feet or so and made birdie on number eight to get on the cut line, which I don't remember what it was, but that's irrelevant. I get to number nine, part four, pretty straight away T-shirt. And then it's like a three wood

and then a wedge or a nine iron and something like that. And so I like to, I don't like to hit three woods off T's. So I kind of hit my three wood on the ground to kick up a little bit of grass and give myself a good lie. So I remember this really clearly, the grass was so tight, I like hit it and I couldn't get it up very high. And so I felt the ball in there, you know, whatever, I'll just hit it. So it's not sitting that good. And I

cold top it. I mean, it goes, it went, it went pretty far for a top. I think as a turf was nice and firm, I got a lot of spring off the off the tee box. So it went pretty far for a top. I think as a turf was nice and firm, I got a lot of spring off the tee box. So it went like 50 yards. So stat tracker had it 76, if I remember right, and you chugged it on Twitter and said, there's no way it went that far. No. I mean, like I said, it went far for a top of 50 yards. That's about as far as you could possibly top it. And to be clear, we're not talking about a thin like we it was a top. No, it was a top. Yeah, I hit the top of the ball and it went straight into the ground and popped up from there. Yeah, cold top. And so then I go up there and the rough is

rough is a pretty thick 50 yards off the tee box. Not hadn't been a whole lot of visitors to the rough there. And so I chopped a five iron up there, hit a pitching wedge to about 12 feet, made it for par to make the cut. On the number. On the number. Yeah. And so then the, you know, laying up guys, go with the social media. And so yeah, I said, I said, definitely the under on 76 yards and also I think that that was somewhere around my fourth or so career top in PGA tour competition

always with three wood I haven't had one since then, I'm probably about to, but I have, yeah, I've tied. I remember, unfortunately, it wasn't even the first one I've done on a T-box. I remember I topped on a number, so you won two, three, four at the Honda one year, probably about eight years ago. And a few other ones, but yeah, always with three wood,

that's the one for me. I'm not going to top it with any other clubs, but three wood you never know. I just remember standing on that tee box and I was like, I think they can hear my heart beating. My heart started racing when I saw that. I was just like, how is this possible? Like, I was just kind of getting into covering golf full time. And I just, it just blew my mind.

I'm like, if this guy's topping it, how do I have any chance to ever be good at this game? And then you made par, I was like, okay, that's the difference right there. I mean, it wasn't, I'm going crawling in a hole after top of that one, but I do love that sort of, I'm glad we could finally get that one out there. Yeah, I don't know. I had my experience of the previous tops to draw on that Irish table.

I was able to persevere and just keep going. You kind of undersold it too, because you kind of blocked your punch out, and it was in the right, the first cut of the right rough, and yet it had to cut it around the trees to get it on the green, and then you made the par putt. So this is a story I'd source from a mutual friend of ours that I hope I'm allowed to ask about and you can share. But you had a great year in 2014 and I believe you were, you know, talked about being in there for the Ryder Cup

potentially. You played a practice round at the British Open with Tom Watson in 2014 and I'm wondering what that was like and kind of what what that was like and what the conversation was like between you two on potentially being a part of that team. I guess I can tell the story. It's long enough.

I've told the story to some friends and stuff with never in public. Tom asked me to play a practitioner on the British Open. And I kind of thought that it asked me to play a practitioner on with him at the British Open. And, you know, I kind of thought that it was just sort of a, you know, get to know each other a little bit, bit better.

But by halfway through the round, I could kind of tell it was somewhat of a tryout, I guess, in his mind. And so we're playing me and Tom are playing a two-man game against Matt Koocher and Justin Walters, who I don't know if you know, Justin Walters, not I don't know, Justin for a long time,

South African guy, very good guy and good player. I can't really remember why he was the fourth in our group that may have been somewhat random, but irrelevant as far as the story goes. So we've just flown over from the John Deere the day before. I'm still a little bit foggy from the trip and time change and all that kind of stuff. And so I'm just out there playing, getting to see the golf

course. So I think I made two or three bogies and the rest pars on the front nine, no buries. So Tom, we're making the turn and Tom starts giving me a pep talk, but very serious. Come on, let's get going here. And I'm never really one that's responded well to pep talks in general, but I just kind of was like, you know, Tom, it's Tuesday, man. You know, like it's, and I could tell that was not not the answer that he wanted. And I did play, I did play better on, on the back nine, but I think Tom and I, and I have a, I have a

ton of respect for Tom and I, and don't have a bad relationship with him at all, but he's just a very different mentality than me. I'm more laid back just trying to take it as it comes, and Tom's more of a go-getter type of mentality to make it happen. I remember later that week, because I think that's my best finish in a major in my career. I really finished 19th. So I was going to the first tee on Sunday, and Tom was finishing on Sunday, and he walked by me and could tell, we were on one of those little sky-bridge things

that they build out there to go over the crowd. So I'm going, he knows that I'm going to the first tee, and he just looks at me like I've got three heads. Like he, I mean, after my performance on Tuesday, he clearly thought that there was, like where are you lost? Like you can't, you can't be going to tee off now. And then I was said, I didn't get picked

for the Ryder Cup that year. And so who knows if that experience that week had anything to do with it or not, but it's water under the bridge. I'm not worried about it. Well, that year, too, it was, I mean, you finished, you ended up finishing, you win in the the Deutsche Bank in Boston, and it was your second win of the year. That leaps you into first in the FedEx Cup standings, and you end up finishing second, but the picks were made so early that a, you know, Horseshal obviously went on that run, finished second first first, and he didn't make the

team because it was too late. Do you think that things could have potentially changed if the, you know, if they had made picks after the tour championship, which they end up kind of adjusting it after that? Do you think you would have had any better chance? Yeah, I mean, they definitely changed when they made the picks because of that year. And they made the picks right after Boston. And I had had a solid year and just won that week.

But I mean, I understand that Tom's not going to make a pick based off of that one week. Yeah, I think that obviously if they make the picks after the tour championship, I played well finished fourth in the tour championship, Billy won the last two FedEx Cup events. So yeah, I think that if the picks are made after the tour championship,

then certainly Billy and most likely myself would have been picked for that team. There's nothing that any of us can do about it now. Obviously, and not something, you know, obviously I would have loved to have been a part of that team, but it's not something that I really had any control over. So, you know, I was just happy that I've made it, butload of cash those few weeks.

Well, these are my words and not yours, but maybe it's a reflection of how well that team did that some decisions were potentially made off of some text messages that were sent, and also a contributing factor might have been Tuesday, practice round at the British Open. But yeah, I mean whatever. So you said that boatload of cash.

You make $3 million for finishing second. But after you launch yourself into first place in the FedEx, and I asked WebBout this too, because he was in the situation, I think, in 2011, and he admitted like there's just no way to avoid thinking about it. But how different is pressure of playing for potentially $10 million compared

to when you go tee it up in an event? It's more about the competition. The guys are really driven by the competition of a single event. How do you avoid the carry at the end of the rope that is the $10 million prize when you're sitting at the top of the standings? Yeah, I think mentally it was made easier for me to the fact that Billy was playing so well in the Torch Amhert Chip and that he was second going into it. And so once he kind of got out to the lead, it became very clear cut. I had to try to beat him to win.

You know, if the guys that were, he coming in the week, I think he was second, Roy was third. I don't really remember after that, but if those guys are laying an egg and not playing well, then you've got all sorts of different variables and scenarios that can play out. But in that situation, it was very, very clear cut. This is another thing that I've told some people and gives me a much more clear, you know, because it's easy, you know, say Sunday, you've made the cut, you're not playing very well, you just kind of, you can, some guys can kind of pack it in or whatever and not really care. But that year, I was number one going into the tour championship over Billy Horseshal by half of a point after

the BMW III playoff event. So obviously that half of a point and then they reset the point so now I'm ahead by 2.50. So that half of a point can represent any shot in any tournament that I made the cut in that entire season. So because of that half point in me going into the Twitch Amateur Championship as first, I finished fourth in the Twitch Amateur Championship. I think Rory maybe also finished tied for fourth

or maybe tied for second, I can't remember, but I ended up edging him out and finished second and made $3 million whereas finishing third in the FedEx Cup is $2 million. So also if I had finished one shot worse at the tour championship, I would have finished third on the FedEx Cup instead of second. So the way that you can look at that, if I had shot one shot higher in any of the tournaments that I played the entire season, it would have been a million dollar difference.

It seems like you have thought about this, said. I have thought about this, and I'm thankful that I ended up on the right side of it. But yes, one shot difference in any tournament that I played and made the cut in the entire season would have been the difference in a million dollars. Pretty crazy to think about that. Are you adding any of that up coming down the stretch at the Torch Championship? Is it feel different? I know you've played in, you know, you've played in walker cups, you've played in presidents cups, you've played in majors, but that's what I'm trying to get at is like, can you avoid thinking about the money in that situation? Yeah.

Well, obviously, I didn't know that full scenario, but yeah, I didn't know that it was looking like Billy was playing really well. He had gotten off to a decent lead on Sunday. And I didn't know the exact breakdown of how all the fakes kept stuff worked. But yeah, it definitely was in the back of my mind that every one of these shots and every birdie I can make

and every park and save. I knew that they were all going to matter way more than just a normal, normal event. Again, this is going back to my, our mutual friend source here, but he is telling a story about, you know, when you won your first event, what it was called the Viking Classic,

that didn't have the Master's invite attached to it. But when you got, you won the Gladjury, you were exempted into Augusta, and you guys, and he tells a story and you guys were sitting around talking about how, you know, for the first time in your life ever you could go and play Augusta National for, you know, anytime you really wanted to. What was that feeling like? That was, you know, growing up in Georgia, being a golfer, I mean, the Masters is it, you

know, it's everything. And so, yeah, to be able to just call up the pro shop and tell them you're coming, I mean, that's, I mean, who gets to do that? It's incredible. Yeah, I remember going over there at a decent amount. I wouldn't say I wouldn't say I wore out my welcome by any means, but I was able to go over there, you know, three or four times, I think, to go play the golf course and just kind of get a feel for the place a little bit better and try to be somewhat prepared for the shock

of your first masters is a very different experience, for sure. I'm not supposed to get the story about how you met your wife. Yeah, my wife and I met on a blueberry farm in Mississippi, which is where everyone dreams of being their wife. That's why I knew that part, but are you just hanging out in a blueberry farm in your meter? I need to hear the details, so then.

So a good friend, a good friend of mine, Clay Jiles, we went to high school together, and also both went to Georgia. His girlfriend at the time was one of Tony, my wife's really close friend still is. So my friend Clay, his family had a blueberry farm in Mississippi, and so we were all, a bunch of us were all going down to New Orleans for the sugar bowl. And so it's kind of a good halfway point. So we met up there and spent the night and, you know, rode around four wheelers and took pistols out

and shot trees and whatever. Just did a bunch of good old red next stuff and hung out and it was a great time. And that was the first time I met her. And yeah, I remember I was already graduated from Georgia and was about getting ready to start my rookie year on the then nationwide tours and to be web.com tour, corn fairy tour. And yeah, it was a group of people that I was pretty familiar with, but I just remember

being like, whoa, who is she? Why have I not seen her, met her until right now? It was a pretty immediate attraction obviously and we started dating and the rest of history. 10 years of marriage and three kids later. All right, well, the rest of the stories that gave me are definitely off the record stories. So I think that that brings us about to the end. I hear some kids that I think

are ready for you to re-join the family. So Chris, thanks so much for taking the time and being so open about everything and really shining a light on things. I know a lot of people rooting for you and are happy to see you find and success and happiness again. So really appreciate the time. Yep. Thanks for having me. I'm happy to do it. Get a right club. Feed a right club today. Yeah!

That's better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most. Better than most.