No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 331: Tom Watson, Padraig Harrington, and Iain Carter (The Open Championship for the Ages)

Episode Date: July 17, 2020

Tom Watson, Padraig Harrington, Iain Carter, and (for some reason) Soly spent an hour talking about The Open Championship, the Old Course, and "The Open for the Ages" which is airing this coming weekend. The R&A was kind enough to provide us with the audio from the conversation to put on our feed, so we're adding it as a bonus episode this week. It was a thrill to hear these two share their memories and perspective on the historic championship. They also break down how they play the Old Course, holes they can't crack, and what makes the Old Course great.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yeah. That's better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to sort of the no-lang-up podcast. I hate to take any credit really for this, this episode, true bonus episode, I got to part take in a round table discussion with Ian Carter from the BBC, Tom Watson and Patrick Harrington as they are promoting

and talking about the open for the ages, which is going to be on golf channel this coming Sunday, which is an interactive. We mentioned a couple of times, but basically they've gone through all these highlights from the old course and are stitching together a tournament. This would have been open championship week and they are stitching it together to create some drama and see legends playing side by side in a bunch of golf. Basically, you're going to get to see a bunch of golf being played at the old course over the years. And I'm really excited to watch it. I am not sure how I ended up on this

panel. I do not speak a lot during this. I speak when called upon. You and Carter did a great job of trying to involve me, but you'll see pretty quickly. My presence was not really necessary. Podrick does a great job facilitating the discussion. Tom obviously has great insight on the Open Championship over the years. And Podrick has equally great insight from his two wins. And all the experience he has competing in that championship. So this was super fun. What a thrill to do to sit with these guys, ask them questions, talk to them, and hear

them just talk about one of my favorite golf tournaments in the world. And it made me hit me in the field. It's pretty hard. It made me miss having Open Championship that much more. So celebrate it this week and watch it on Sunday. These guys put a lot of work into it and we really appreciate with them giving us the audio to play. This is their production.

They gave us the permission to share it on our channels. And we thought you guys would enjoy here in the discussion. And I would have hated for you not to have heard it. So glad thank you for tuning in. Of course, presented commercial for you today. And we appreciate the RNA and the open reach and out on this one. So enjoy the conversation.

Cheers. Yes, hello. This is Ian Carter. And it is fantastic to be with you, even though I'm sure we would all love to be elsewhere this week taking in what should have been the 149th Open Championship at Royal St George's of course current conditions mean that that's not possible. The good news though is that the RNA have come up with a pioneering idea that should give us our open fix this Sunday with the open for the ages, which will be accessible from various platforms, most notably at the Open.com, all the details there. Now there's already been plenty of action coming through

on social media channels showing iconic shots from great players on the most famous golf course in the world. The project is a reimagined version of the championship, the past meeting the present, great champions from so many different eras fighting it out over the old course at St Andrews. It really is a fascinating prospect. No one knows who's going to emerge as the winner. Could it be Tiger? Could it be Sevy, Jack, Sennick Fowdo, or any number of the other great names who've graced the open down the years. And they include two of our very special guests right now, the legendary

Tom Watson, a five times champion and twice winner, Pordrick Harrington. Great to have you both along for this discussion. I suspect though, both of you presumably would like to be elsewhere this week in all honesty. I'd love to be playing. It's strange times have gone through for sure. And obviously to miss an open championship is, when they canceled it, I was kind of gutted, but then you realize there's bigger things going on

and we can handle it for one year as players. But I am looking forward to this idea. I want to see who actually wins the Open for the Agis. And what's interesting from my perspective, I don't believe I'd be in contention, but clearly Tom would be right at the top of the list there. And Tom, one thing I have to say is, and you would notice, even though I spent a little bit of time with Tom. My brothers are one of my brothers, it's nearly 10 years old or 9 years older, so they grew up in Tom Watson's era. So they were hit Tom with their hero. So I was going through the different opens and I know a lot of the opens that Tom was

warning. I didn't see them, but I actually believed like I lived through them because I heard so many stories from my brothers. And it's amazing. I'm guaranteed I didn't see them but I think I did and that's the great thing about the open championship and I suppose sport and everything. You live a truehood of people as much as your own experiences and certainly when it comes to Tom's five wins you were a big hero in my family as I grew up. Well, thanks, Patrick. And I started as a total rookie in 1975,

not knowing anything about Link's golf. I came over to Carnegie Nosty. I had a cat even in the Alfie Files from Southport, who was a crusty old character. I love to smoke his cigarettes and drink his famous grouse, whiskey. And he had caddy for dairy player at Carnegie Mk. When Gary won the championship there, but Gary had rabbit as caddy.

So we started off the championship there. And as golfers, we know sometimes when he goes into championships, we were hoping we're playing our best. I wasn't playing particularly my best, but then during my practice session on Tuesday night there, I found something that worked with my golf swing and I carried that on throughout the championship there. And obviously it worked for me. But again, I was in total,

I was wet behind the ears. I didn't know anything about LYNX golf. Didn't particularly care for me. But again, I was told, you know, it was wet behind the years. I didn't know anything about links golf. Didn't particularly care for it. I didn't like the luck of the bounce or the way the ball rolled. You know, links golf is different than the American golf we play over here. Where the ball stops quicker in American golf than it does in LYNX. You have to judge how far the ball's going to roll as well as how far it carries on LYNX golf. And that's the element of feel that a LYNX golfer has to have to be successful. So I didn't really cherish that way of playing for about four years until I finally told myself, you know, you got to embrace this game the way it's played on, like, golf courses. So, but it, you know, the open championship,

I remember going back in time when I was a youngster. You didn't see much of it on TV, but I knew the history of it, especially the history through the eyes of Bob Jones. Bobby Jones, our great amateur player, back then, the Grand Slam in 1930. Bob, he had an incident at Jan Andrews, which was pretty amazing to me that when he was a young man, I think he was 20, in his early 20s, he's playing them in the open championship there. And he got so frustrated. The eleventh hole, he put it in the bunker to the left of the par three green.

And he, I don't know, he took three or four or five swings to get out. He couldn't get out. And he just picked his ball up and walked in to the clubhouse, quit the tournament right there. That was the tournament right there. That was the great Bob Jones. So there are a lot of stories about Bob Jones, of course, when he was a champion, but growing up the game, as you and I well know, there are times in our lives that the game becomes very frustrating. And that was an indicator to me that we're all human.

The great Bob Jones was human. Tell us this Tom, you said there in your thing that there wasn't much of the Open Championship show on television as you were grown up. That was a completely different experience than for me. Sort of by the 80s, the only girls that we really got to see each year was the Open Championship show and all day. Like they started 7 o'clock and they seemed like they started 7 o'clock in the morning and oh we seemed like it was sunny at the open.

Any member I have is a sunny burnt out gull of course playing trueling sculls. So when you were growing up and you were getting to love the game, was there much golf on television, or did you see it on TV, or how did you build up your love for the game? Well, I saw Arnold Plummer. Arnold Plummer was my hero. When he won the Masters in 58, 60, 62, and 64, it was all Arnie. And then Jack came along, of course, in 61 beat him in the US Open Championship Championship. And the playoff, and I hated Jack. And I made Jack was the villain. My hero got beat by this guy about him, a fat Jack, you know, they were disparaging Jack the way he wore his clothes and his weight and all that. The problem was that Jack was better than Arnie.

He was just, he was better than Arnie. You know, when I was a kid, I really had, I had a great privilege of playing with both Arnie and Jack and exhibitions when I was 15 and 17 years old respectively. And I got a chance to see him up close and personal. And it really gave me the dream to become a professional golfer by playing with these great players. I was lucky when I grew up because I had a dad who had a great passion for the game, Stan Thurs, who was the pro at the club

that my dad belonged to. He had a tremendous passion for the game and took me under his arm. You know, we played so many rounds ago off together and he helped me with a lot of things of my golf swing and over the years, but the passion that these people had and I'm sure Padre you had people in your life that had that passion that you looked up to. I people in your life that had that passion that you looked up to. I looked up to my dad and Stan and then subsequently Arnie and then Jack and yes it was on TV. You watched TV at the Masters especially. You watched the Masters and then the US Open came on. You watched the US Open. and the open championship was not that prominent of a telecast over here. I'm not sure exactly

when I first saw it over here, but I watched it there. It always looked kind of funny. The golf course was brown and these guys were wearing sweaters in the middle of the summer and I couldn't quite understand it. Once I started playing there, I started to get a true understanding of what it was about. I was sorry to interrupt you there Tom, but in the portrait just before you jump in on that point about your influences, we should also introduce the fourth member of our panel. also introduced the fourth member of our panel because we've got Chris Solomon here, better known as Sully from the No Laying Up podcast. Great to have you along with us, Sully. I think we're probably going to struggle together word in edgeways, which frankly is absolutely

fine. I mean, I'm sitting here on this Zoom call with you. I'm just thinking to myself, here we are four of us all together, seven claret jugs between us. I mean, we're in good shape. I thought about just logging off here for a second, because I truly don't know what my role here is, because these two can just kind of facilitate their own discussion. I'll have a bit to say.

I do want to ask a question, kind of, I guess, more towards Tom, because you brought up Bobby Jones, and there's an alleged quote from Bobby, and I honestly, I can't track down the source of it. I'm not even sure it's real, but I think you'll understand the spirit of it. But it was something along the lines of if you say you love the old course and you've played it less than 10 times, you're lying.

So I want to know your first, your true and honest impression of the old course, the first time you played it and how that relationship may have evolved over the years. Hey, is too strong a word because when I first played it I did not like the golf course. I didn't like the blindness of the shots off the tease and being as precise as I wanted to be to try, you know, where you had the bunker on the left and the bunker on the right, try to hit the ball inside that goal post, if you will. You had to walk through the gorse and try to put your club down and get the right line.

Now they've got the Stroke Saver, a Yardies book, and they had the photograph at the bottom and it shows you the exact line over that piece of gorse right there is the left, there's the right edge of the left bunker and that piece of gorse right there is the left edge of the right bunker. So you don't have to do all that stuff anymore but I didn't like the blindness of it, didn't like the firmness of it, but I love the history of it. Honestly, standing on the tee there, it gave his shivers in the sense that all the grates stood on that little tiny box right underneath the clubhouse there, the old course clubhouse. It gave you the shivers that, yep, I'm standing in the same tee that the greats, all the greats have stood on, the history of the game. So I had a kind of love

hate relationship with the golf course, but I finally over the years of playing it, I finally over the years of playing it, I finally got to get to love the golf course. Even though it's a Ling's golf course, it's not that exposed in terms of it's a warm and of course to play in general, you don't feel as you go out and in, it feels pretty good, onto you get out into that little peninsula right out there in the corner and you don't want to spend any more time out there than you have. That's right. And if you... I always fear on those holes. How you're playing on the golf course, and this is my one, well, a couple of experiences with St. Andrews. First of all, I went as a student to play the St. Andrews trophy as an amateur, so I love the experience, the town, everything about the

history. I'm still nervous standing on the first tee and the AGMT every time I go back. Every time I still get the hair standing up on the back of my neck, I love that experience. So first time was great, but I always found the golf course much tougher than what people said. I think people, I don't know if they see enough, but like people just hit it left. Well, you can't just hit it left. There's bokers up the left and a lot of holes. And then for me, the fear was you hit it in the wrong place and it only gets worse. So it's not like, yeah, yeah, you have a go for the next shot and you just put yourself worse into a hole further in and you're going, well, I can't, I don't even can go backwards. I don't want to go backwards. And it's just getting deeper and deeper. So for a competitive course, I know the scoring can be good now, but there's always a fear in the back of your mind that your whole round could finish

on one bad shot that you just put yourself in an in its drivable place that you just can't get out of and more so when we go play the open championship because the bunkers you know we I played the don't hear there every year and the bunkers are reasonable not the left-hand bunker on 12 who you must have the name of a please I I shouldn't know the name of the bunker left on 12 11 I made a mistake there. It's a good question I'll get that for you in one second. Okay. Because that is the worst bunker on the golf course. I've got the strokes over here. I've got a part.

I can't see it. The hill on the left is where Bobby Jones did it. Yeah, on the left is the left. There's the Strathbunk on the left. And that's the super deep one on the right. I know that one intimately. And you've got a hill on the left, which I know extremely well. I left. Yeah.

When you go into that bunker, you're going in at the wrong angle. So you go in straight on, but you have to play out to the right. So you actually really can be stuck against a face that's 10 feet high. So what do you do? And I think that pressure and intimidation, I have always found that St. Andrews has that. And I know people would say, oh, well, look, you can make birdies on the golf course, but not if they don't want you to. That's the great trick of a, not a trick, but the beauty of the golf courses, they, they still can manage to use pin positions at different, I know it's got a little bit short over time, but they have ways of making sure that the

holes can play to the true difficulty that they want them to play in any given time. So it's, for me, it's a fascinating golf course. Just that it changes all the time. And there is a level of intimidation. I know they brought the tee box back on 17 and 14 now, which brings back in what I would have imagined Tom would have gone through back at Euroday Tom. Those T-T shots back in the day must have been like incredibly intimidating with the old equipment. Well, yeah, you have 14 with the out of bounds of the right there. You had to

you had to you had to fit that that drive in there and I actually you know I learned how to play that. you know, you actually played it up, up the out of bounds because normally you had a right to left wind there and, you know, you, you know, you had to challenge the out of bounds there. But, you know, one of the key shots there that really goes unsung is the, is the shot to the 11th, the par three. That green, the sloping green there, the back right pin position, that green, you know, with you, I always, you know, that was, you know, it's 17 fine, you know, you play 17, you make a bogey, who cares? Everybody makes bogey at 17. But 11, you can, you can

go for a big number of 11 so quickly make your heads wet. I just want to jump in on this because the two reasons one, just to give a perspective for the recreational golfer because the great thing about St Andrews is that while you guys can play great championships there and Portrick, you know, you've won two Dunhill links there, you were in contention for a good while of the last open championship to be played there. For the likes of Solian, we have the chance if we come out the ballot or we know the right people to be able to play as well, the point being that it's public land. And as someone who is a recreational golfer, I have to say it is the most fun golf

course. You can go and play. It doesn't beat you up, but you have to play really well to score well. I'm sitting here in my office right now, and I've got one of those brass score cards that you can buy from like Octolone's shop or the open shop in the town of St. Andrews. And it's from October 1993. At the time I was a 15 handicap and I shot 84 15 handicap net 69 now that is just the most perfect days golf isn't it and the fact that it happens to be on the most famous golf course in the world And I think it's because the greens are so massive obviously Ordinarily the pins are not going to be as challenging for us as they are for you guys But if we can go and play it, that's the, that, that is the point.

It's, it's there for everybody to play whatever you stand in. I don't know what, what you think solely on that. To, to your point there, Ian and, and Padre as well, and Tom, what you said about, you know, the first two times I played it, go left. Just go, there's all kinds of room for an amateur golfer. You can play left all you want. And I kept ending up with these 75 yard lob wedges, like you're saying.

And I'm realizing, hey, there's a bunker right in my way, or hey, there's a huge mound right in my way. And it took my third time playing it, where I had a caddy who charted me around the course the right way. And said, look, you can play left, but you're gonna be in a bad spot. You gotta take on the course on the right if you want an angle into it.

And just the way he charted me around, it opened my eyes to the game of golf. I'm not even exaggerating when I say that. And we got to 16 T and he tells me he's like, he looks at the, the pin sheet and he charts. And he says, all right, we're going up number three. And it blew my mind. That's when the, the, the genius of the old course just unlocked of like, that's why you're, there's double wide fairways. On a certain day, it might be the right play to go down this fairway, but a certain day

with a different wind, you know, you don't want to take that on. So the options just become so overwhelming and I've never valued a caddy so much and that he truly unlocked the genius of the golf course, but it took three times to get it. That's kind of going back to the Bobby Jones quote, you might look at a bunker one day and be like, why that's 205 carry, why is that even there? And then the wind shifts back into you the next day and you're wondering if you can even cover that bunker. I would say the sign of a great golf course is a golf course that's very playable for amateur's, but when the pros come along, it can be made challenging. And St Andrews is definitely that.

I know the first toll in 2010, I've hit a nice t-shirt down there. I've got lav wedge in to the front pin, hit it little heavy, hit it in the water, take six, and feel like my open championship is ended right there. How could you take a double bulge with a lav wedge? So, when it's a championship venue, there is a lot of bias in the golf course. And yet, as I said, I'd love to see all golf courses designed like that that would give

the amateurs more of a chance. And then because the pros played them so little, you know, why would you design your golf course for the pros? Keeping it at St Andrews, because that is the venue for the open for the ages but just moving on to the concept guys of trying to pit golfers from different eras against each other. I mean I'm going to fascinate it to see how this goes because certainly whenever I mass that question you know would tiger of beaten jack or whatever It's almost impossible to answer. And yet this whole project is looking to do that.

How do we feel about that as a concept, pitting the ears, never mind the players against each other? Well, we're in the virtual age now that it can be done. That's the beauty of this open for the ages, event we're going to see. The ability to actually show players together and show them with their swings and the way they play the old course. And that's going to be wonderful to watch.

We know it's a fantasy, but the other hand, the fans are obviously the fans are going to be involved with this because they're going to determine who's going to be the champion. That's going to be interesting to see, but I think I know who the champion is going to be, but it's not me. I know that. But I know that the types of events that happen to us in Andrews, and I hope they show Jack's put it to the 18th hole when he beat Doug Sanders, when he threw the putter up in the air and ducked, both of them ducked. I hope that's part of the telecast. I'm sure it will be, that's,

that was one of the iconic moments in Open Championship Groph, I think. Yeah, are you gonna have a, Ian is there gonna be like a best dress competition as well? Because if we're going back through 50 years of different styles of the golf course. Well, maybe that'll be the points in which Doug Sond is actually eventually wins.

Yes, indeed. the golf course. Well, maybe that'll be the points in which Doug Sarn does actually eventually wins. Indeed. You know, I'm surprised if Tom with your five open championship wins, if you're not at the very top of the list, because for me, I would put Tom Watson's career when you think of Tom Watson, you think of Tom Watson as an open champion. So it's amazing how much your name is now synonymous with open golf, links golf, you know, coming from the States, you really did. I don't know what you would you say, you broke down barriers as much as maybe Europe and the right of Copa's now, don't that, you did it with the open championship, you know, just you made it yours. So, you know, it is interesting. I think you're being humble saying you haven't won or you're not in contention, but I definitely think I would have put you at the top of the list. There's others who are who are equally there, but what I like to think

about all the players over the last 50 years or more, whatever era the player came from, he was a winner in that era and he would player came from, he was a winner in that era and he would have figured out how to be a winner in the modern day with modern equipment, just as much as winners nowadays would have figured out how to use the old equipment. So it's much more to do with what was inside them and their passion than the outward golf swing. They just knew how to get a dome of what they had and what was in front of them. They knew how to beat the person standing beside them and that's all they had to do at that time. So it would be, it's crazy to think that somebody couldn't use equipment or couldn't go backwards or couldn't go forwards because all they've proved by their success is whatever is put in front of them,

they can succeed at that level. That's where there's sports psychologists on the golf tour now. They're trying to get inside the people's minds to see what that intangible, to determine what that intangible is, the differentiates between the also-orans and the winners. And are the qualities to do that? Are they are they mental as you as you hint towards their Tom or is there a a technical thread that runs through all of these great players because you know St Andrews as much as any venue has identified the very best golfers at the top of their game at that particular time as it's champions. Well there is a thread that goes through I think all the greats in the sense that they have they have the understanding the innate understanding

how to play the game with field they play with field they're not mechanical they play with field and they get they get in a rhythm and that feel takes over and they succeed. I'm going to dive. I'm going to go in a little bit different direction right here. If they ask Padrig a question. Padrig at the 17th hole at Berkdale. You had the lead in the tournament and you were sitting there after the drive. You're on the down slope going into that bar five off a bare dirt line. You got that cross bunker in your way and that's death. You don't want to be in that cross bunker and you take that five wood and you blast that thing over

the bunker there. What in the hell were you thinking about there? You know, it's a Bob Tarn's quote. It's easy. It's difficult. It's easy to hit a great shot when you're feeling good. It's difficult to hit a great, hit a good shot when you're feeling bad. So I was feeling great at that stage. I was on right and top. I was my favourite club in the bag. I just hit three word onto 15. I'd hit five word a couple of times. I loved the club. I loved the shot. And I knew if I hit it, it took everything out of the equation. If I hit a good shot. So you know, it was my chance to win right there,

whereas if I kick the can down the road and lay it up, which I could have laid off, I was distinctly afraid of Greg Norm because I had bought into the story that this was the last hurray for for Greg Norm and the media or all that. it's the sympathy, the sentimental win. And Greg was, I think Greg was about four shots behind but he'd hit dry, remore aggressive than me after tea. And I just really felt he was going to make an eagle. And I just said, look, if I hit my shot, that's it. Nobody else can do anything if I hit my shot. Where if I lay up, and if you lay it up, it was difficult to get it on the back here with a pitch. There wasn't like, it wasn't like it was that simple

a shot with a lay-up, but the fact is, I took a shot on when I was feeling good, and we know as players, Tom, look, you don't take a shot on when you're feeling bad, unless you're absolutely half-d it, but when you're feeling good, that's when you start chasing pins, do and things. And I've gotta say, I know it worked out as well as it did.

It was about 2.45 hour carry-over to bunker. I felt I had that, ran up there, a whole day of freedom. It did give me the luxury, which is one of the greatest pleasures in competitive golf, is to walk down the 18-told, widow-lead, that you can enjoy it. So if you're coming down the last and your level one ahead, or even two, you have to knuckle down and finish the job, where I was walking down the last with a four-shot lead. I got that one experience in life

where you can absorb it and wave at the crowds and enjoy. By the time I did a potty 70 second hole, I actually had a 15-foot, and I really didn't physically know what I was doing or mentally know what I'd all over that pot. I was so excited because I'd won the tournament 20 minutes earlier. And I will say that's the greatest thing about it. I know it was a great shot.

The fact is I got to enjoy aging. And I'm sure to tell us yourself Tom, you had the different experiences, you have had playoff wins, you've had to write down the end. How have you felt about the crowds? Because it's one time it's like an amphitheater down the A.G. Most open championships, grandstands, everybody is swelled there right at the end. And it's the one time you get to feel like a football star hero as you come down Asian. Well, I had the luxury only once in my victories there, but at near field 1980, I had a foreshot

lead coming in the last hole to have that luxury. All the other victories were tooth and nail. I didn't have the luxury of really experiencing that, that letting go so to speak, you know, coming down there. You know, I just on the intangible, and she said right there, the intangible part of that, you were feeling good enough about your swing at that time to take a difficult lie. I'm the off their dirt that you had to carry and you knew that you could do it and and There wasn't any question in your mind that that was that was the that was the play And that's the intangible and sometimes we

We can't describe we can't you know, we can't describe, but I thought you describe that very well right there but I thought you described that very well right there. Solly, it's amazing. We're getting such an insight into a champion's mindset, aren't we? That carpet DM, that sees the moment intangible, that only a very, very few people are genuinely blessed with the very highest level. Yeah, I'm curious. And this question may be more for Tom than Patrick,

having grown up playing much more Ling Skolf, I'm sure sure that Tom did, but I've always been really impressed by at least especially in your in your later years, how much you embrace playing just casual linked golf. I remember seeing pictures on Twitter of you up at Brawra with the sheep rolling out there and stuff like that, but did you how would you transition into open championship week in your prime? Did you come over and play, did you go play casually, play tournaments leading up to the Open Championship? How did you get yourself in the mindset of Lynx Golf and how long does that kind of mindset change take?

Well, I always came over early and for one reason, I wanted to get used to the time lag, the time change. And I always felt that I had to be over there, at least five or six days prior to Thursday's T-Off, or as it was in 1975, it was a Wednesday T-Off. So I had to get over there early, and what else could I do? I could play golf. And I tied that in with playing golf at various locations.

And especially after coming over with Sandy Taylor in 1981, we came over and we played Bali Bunyan for the first time. The old course of value, which I just truly fell in love with. And then we were going up to play Port Russian and County Down, but we had to nix that because of the troubles, unfortunately. And ended up going over and played Prestwick and Trune and then up to Dornock and had just a great trip, playing courses that I hadn't played before. And that is really the accelerated and subsequent years where I came over and played a variety of golf courses prior to the Open Championship.

But basically, it was to get my body in tune with the time change. But there's a difference in turf in Patrick. You will agree to this. The turf in America, you hear that squish. On thef in America, you hear that squish. On Lynx Golf, you hear that fump. There's a difference in the sound and the feel when you come over here. I think it doesn't take long, once you've played it, it doesn't take long to get readjusted to it. But just the fun of playing lengths and trying to measure how far the ball is going to roll when you hit many Instagram, those sorts of things I think really help you get ready for the open venue when you're playing lengths off outside the open venue.

Portrick, how different is it playing an open championship compared with any other event? I mean, I know that you have always worked very hard on playing Link's Golf before going into it, into an open, that kind of level of preparation, which kind of speaks to what Tom talks about there as well. But just in terms of the environment of an open, the sounds, the smells, the feel of it as a championship compared with other tournaments, it is unique, isn't it? It's totally unique because the sound travels right across the golf course. So there's always an ambience sound on an open championship, so there could be a group six holes away and the crowd are clapping for them and that sounds there's nothing to stop But there's no trees the wind brushes through the grass. So it's it's a very comfortable

Experience playing an open champion. I definitely think in terms of there's I suppose there's a bit more space The crowds there's a nice the crowds seem to enjoy it get close to you, you get some funny comments from the crowds at times, I think it's a more personable experience as a major, you just seem to be, let's just take St. Andrews, like you are teeing off and finishing in the town of St. Andrews, so it doesn't necessarily have to be people who are there for the open, they could be locals even though they would be interested in the Gulf, but people are just there living the Gulf. And you get that sense when you're on a Lingx Gulf course, that the Gulf course itself is part of the community.

And a huge part of the economic driver of that community. Karnu's tea is a perfect example of that. And you feel that when you're out in the Gulf course, you can feel an atmosphere on a Lingx Gulf course. You haven't just the people are very proud of their course. They take ownership of the course. Everybody in the village that that golf course is in takes ownership and you definitely even when you're out in between rounds in the open championship where you're out having a meal or or beforehand you can get that sense. People are actually, what do you think of the golf course?

Is our course the toughest? Is ours the best? There's that comparison. And that brings leads into the atmosphere for the player. They know there's a bit of heritage should have got to the site that they're at, that there's more to it than just how they're playing. And I think players respect an open

championship more for that. They understand that people involved in that golf course are living golf, living the whole idea of that open championship. Like again we go back to Carnusity, the fact that they went back to Carnus or even came back to Royal Port Roche, what that meant for the local community. The players understand that and feel that and it does make the event special on the golf course. But I would say crowds wise again, for some reason, I can never remember it raining at an open.

I only remember a nice sweater. I can remember, I think in 99's ice creams and things like that at an open championship. It's interesting, Tom's coming obviously from nice warm weather out there in Texas and places like that. I'm thinking to myself, I always remember T-shirts at the old, or back 20, 30 years ago, you'd always see the guy sleep with no shirt on in one of the sand dunes. You know, we see the guy sleeping with no shirt on in one of the sand dunes Let me let me interject here for a second because you say about taking ownership and in

In the tournament in the open championship, you know the fans Really take ownership in it and they're the greatest fans in golf and And up a memory that's always will be etched in my mind is the Saturday at Royal St. George's, the last time I played there. It was raining like hell. Cats and dogs, and we're out there, and we got the umbrellas out there like this in front of us. Yeah, forget the umbrellas. Just wear the rain suits and get wet. Now, the umbrellas were useless. It was blown like hell and it was raining cats and dogs. And going around that golf course,

playing that golf course in those conditions, it was enjoyable to me. But the thing I remember, you know, really, probably the most poignant memory I had were the stands. The stands were full of fans. They were there in their rain suits, getting rained on, now maybe an occasional umbrella, they're just getting soaked in there that they wanted a seat, and they were in the stands watching golf. You wouldn't find that anywhere else and that you know that that to me

always epitomizes the Love the game that the fans at an open championship have. It's an event. They come and they watch it You know with a passion unlike any other loss of them Solly did you feel that way about the open championship? I'm so glad you asked that because I can only speak from a fans perspective of watching on television But we get up in the States at 4 a.m. Whatever it is and turn on the TV and you're kind of groggy, you get your coffee, whatever, but as soon as you flip it on You hear that

applause that you don't hear in the States when somebody hits an eight iron From 175 to the center of the green. And it's 30 feet from the hole. You hear a strong applause from everyone in the gallery. And that just immediately transports you to the open championship. And that the fans there appreciate that shot as much as one that hits five feet from the hole and backspins, which those are the shots

that get the biggest ovation in the states. But they appreciate exactly, and they know that's the proper golf shot. And that I'd always rings true to me. And that just puts me right in that open shape. It's here in that applause for the first time when you flip it on that Thursday morning. And now you guys got me really missing the fact that we're not going to see a brand new open though.

We are excited for the open for the ages. Yeah. And let's consider some of the great players that people are going to be watching and viewing in this open for the ages. I mean, you famously call in the big cat on the laying up Tiger. Given the command performances for his three Claret jugs, obviously a huge candidate for this, but Tiger at the Open, what, I mean, Pordrick, you played an awful other golf with him at the height of his power. He is, he was a phenomenon in terms of the Open. I had a conversation with Colin Montgomery. He was talking about 2005, and he finished second, he was playing with Tiger but actually his prime

concern was Gousson and Olethorbal behind and not being overtaken by them rather than hunting down Tiger because he was just such a presence he wasn't someone who would who would basically screw up down the stretch so actually he was playing for second place. Yeah I think there was an element with that, for as you said, you know, he didn't win every year either. Well, I think for me, like, they experienced a hoi like, you know, the way he dominated that golf course, the way he played the golf course, nobody else was capable of playing.

The golf course was so burned out that week. It was so firm and fast that you could, you struggled so hard to get the ball on the green that you were forced to take the t-shats on to make the second shot short and that course does need to go up because you're always going through bunkers and it's like dog leg and you're missing tiger plate conservatively laid back up and everybody saw that was genius he laid up of all the trouble all the bunkers none of us could have played from where he hit the second shot. Oh, if you added up his second shot, every second shot he was hitting was 180 to 220 yards

into rock hard greens, baked out in sunny weather. We just weren't capable of hitting playing from there. Even if I placed my ball every hole in the perfectly where tiger did, I wouldn't have been competitive against him. He put us on the pressure tiger that a lot of people, and this happened to a lot of people in the whole of tiger's career. He put you under so much pressure you didn't play your own game. And then you've got pushed into trying to do more than you could, and then obviously if you try and do more than you can you generally fail miserably and tiger then gets to walk away with it. I do say that highlight was a supply

experience. I suppose it was very similar to his 2000 win at the US Open. He was so far ahead in quality compared to the field that you get the impression with Tiger and I think it is what Monty was was alluding to there. He wasn't he could have won by more if he had to. Now that was the impression maybe that wasn't true and maybe that's why players backed off at times or pushed too hard and failed against him. But you know you would have said Ling's golf was the one great leveler that, you know, Ling's, the great thing about Ling's golf, great thing about the Open Championship. It tests every part of your game. It's not, golf was never meant to be a fair game. It's meant to test your

mental fortitude and you know, you can go bad, go bad bounces and you have to deal with it and accept it. Ling's does that. So the Open was the best chance you ever had a beaten tire but he definitely had a little bit of air. He had a leap in ability on the rest of the field and then obviously that mental, just that little step up that people definitely didn't do the wrong thing. You look back, you'd say play your own game and see what happens but sometimes it just wasn't even close. So I mean Tom, you're going back an era or two. Jack Nicholas was a similarly dominant figure. You weren't someone who was intimidated by him.

You had the great jewel in the sun with him. You were able to beat him at Open Championships, but did he have that kind of influence over a great many of the field at an Open Championship because of who he was in his force of personality? Without a doubt, you know, just like Tiger of today, Jack was the same in his prime. When you looked at the leaderboard, that big yellow leaderboard of the open championship. Back in those days, you only look for one name, Jack Nicholas. Just the same thing today. You look at that big yellow leaderboard.

You look for one name, Woods. That's, and Jack had that, he had that aura about him, but he backed it up. Jack was the best at hitting the proper shot at the right time, I think, of anybody in my era. He was really good at the risk reward elements of each shot. He understood the game of how it should be played. His strategy playing golf courses,

I always wanted to play practice rounds with him because I wanted to see how he managed to go around the golf course. And I learned a lot from it and they helped me. They helped me win. And that's invaluable. Now it seems like our caddies tell us how to play the golf course. No, you look at the players.

What's the player? How does the player want to play this whole? You know, Padre alluded to, you know, Woods laying back. He didn't hit in a single fairway bunker the whole week when he played at Hoi Lake. But he's hitting four irons into these rock hard greens and hitting at 10 feet and 12 feet and 20 feet. And as Patrick said, nobody else could do that. And that's what, but he knew his talent that week. Similarly, in 1980, at Murafield, when I played there, going into the tournament, I had a game plan. I was putting my absolute best in my career any time at any time and the only thing I Figured out I said, you know, I don't have to play all that well because I'm gonna make every put I look at

all I have to do is keep it out of the bunkers and You know all the fairy bunkers and the bunkers at the 13th of the short part three up the hill you can't get in those bunkers. And I hit that green four days in a row and I hit it in only one fairway bunker the whole week and that was a cross-bunker at 17 and I hit it, tried to hit it over from an awkward lie in the rough and made bogey. But the rest of the week it was, I ran the tables with the putter and so I had a game plan there it worked for me That tiger had a game plan or hoi lake and work for him and Then you can have someone like Sevy, solly who you know just seems the game plan was flare wasn't it and and

extraordinary short game but happy to and an extraordinary short game, but happy to smash the ball far and wide and recover from car parks and create his own open folklore in that way. Well, and that's what I'm so excited about to watch this is a lot of, you know, the moments of from Tom's career and Sevy were before my time and I never got, I mean, we've seen the highlights, but you don't get to see the shots that didn't even make the highlight real. And I find those to be as interesting, you know, as the highlights are because, you know, you're not going to put it like I was talking about earlier, the proper shot to 30 feet,

whatever. That's not going to make the highlight reel. But I enjoy seeing guys play those kind of shots. And you know, we're talking about about Tiger. And I was reminded of, I think it was there's press conference, you know, they asked him about, you know, the bunkers at St. Andrews in 2000 and he said, you know, I was in a bunker every day on the practice screen. And he, I just, I wanted to ask you guys,

if you can comprehend how somebody can play in four days of open shape and chip golf at the old course and not hit it in one single bunker. Sorry to spoil what's gonna come on Sunday, but you're not gonna see Tiger and any bunkers that don't think. It's called talent. And touch, you know, the remarkable thing

about Tiger when he won there at St. Andrews was that I was watching, was his distance control when he was putting. He hit the ball 60 feet from the hole, 40 feet from the hole, At times outside of 60 feet, he putted the ball, stone dead. Every putt. You never saw him run at three feet by or leave at three feet short. He was equal distance to the hole.

There's a touch to that, too, as remarkable. That's one of the things that You know, it's safe shots obviously, but that touch and feel You can't practice that you've got to have it innately It saves a lot of stress as well Tom Yeah, just like you said 1980 like if you if you're feeling good going in on the greens It takes so much pressure and stress off the rest of your game if you're hitting your long puts up to you know give me distance just less work and wanting any tournament is the same but

wanting you really know when it comes to a major it's a stressful week and Sunday is gonna be twice the stress of the first three days you've got to be fresh and ready it's it's the less butter It's the less butter you have, the less drama you'll have on the first three days coming into that sun, the fresh and stronger you're going to be. So that's the thing about a Ling's golf course, an open champion. It causes a lot of drama. And you really want to avoid it. Like even as you said, you're avoiding cross bonkers or bonkers on the golf course. Yeah, you know, sometimes you end up making powers because you

didn't go for it in a par five. Sometimes you, you know, but you're avoiding the idea that you could get stuck in a bunker and take a double bogey. You're you're reducing the whole level of what could go wrong and make sure they do so much. It might be the most aggressive tactic at times, but it just makes your day that much easier and that means an easier week. And I, from my experience anyway, you know, if you're in contention on a Sunday at the open, it is so exciting that you've got to be ready for it and that means, and we've seen a habit, how many players have we seen played well the first three days in Fallout Pirate and Sunday? Well if their first

three days were you know a bit of a wing and a prayer of their strategy they got away with a strategy you've got to be sensible by the time you get to Sunday because if you've been as I said going on a wing and a prayer all the time, it does beat you up. Now, Sevy looks like he was at times, but Sevy was a genius. And I think Sevy might have got bored if he tried to avoid all the bunkers on the golf course. I think he needed that little bit of emphasis every day. But for me, I would have grown up

as I said, Sevy was a big influence on the open chapter for me because I would have started watching golf. Like my biggest memory, it's heavy was a big influence on the open chapter for me because I would start watching golf. Like my biggest memory, as I said, I have memories of the open that I don't know I didn't actually watch but I somehow know them. But 84 would have been when I would have started. I would have been 13 years of age and that's when I would have started watching Blanket Club coverage all day every day of the open when it was on. So you'd have gone to the golf club, sat there with other people. The minute the telecast

came on, you started watching. And you really enjoyed on Thursday and Friday. You enjoyed watching the stragglers coming in who were trying to make the course, the unknown, and it always seemed with the open championship. This is great thing. There always seemed to be a qualifier, or an unharrowed player lead after they won. Here we grow there and shoot eight on the par. Now, the sensible are the experienced players with no not to worry about them, but everybody gets so excited that this local qualifier has got to the top of the leaderboard and added to the drama. Now, as I said, with experience, you realize he's had his day, but I think that's why people watch as well. It's because of the broad spectrum. It's an open. That means anybody can qualify and play in it. It's not invitation only.

You can play in the open championship. You can work your way through the system, get out there, and they seem to have their day in the sun when they do qualify. So for the excitement level, I think my first memory is heavy. So heavy at the opening to 84 and I think after that, I would have watched every minute of the coverage certainly for the next. I probably still do actually watch every minute of the coverage. I still like watching the open. Even when I'm at an open and playing, I still like to watch what's going on. It's the best coverage, the fact that it's walls of wall all day, and you do get the chance to see just anybody play, anybody. I think another thing with Open Champions of Garbleings Garth, there's always an element of expectation. You don't

know what's going to happen next. You really don't. You don't know, you know, a guy could make eagles and birdies have this tremendous run, but you also, there's always that element of worry that you're going to find a place that you just don't want to be, that you get stuck in and you see that great round and you just like like saying to Andrews like nobody ever has ever been happier settled with their round under the plate 17 because of the fear that it's all just going to go completely wrong on 17 that you're I'm not saying I have nightmares about this but I'm sure people that would be waking up the night before it's on day at the open chapter of 118.

Can they ever get off the 17th hole that they get stuck in it maybe in the road hole bunker or worse than the road hole bunker? I think at times, I know you, Tom, you've had that hit onto the road and things like that when it mattered, but you've got to take the shot on. So, you know, that's the way it is. How do you guys play the 17th hole? What's your line off the tee and has your strategy evolved over the years as you've played it more and more? I make my part five and I go on.

There's a lot to be said for that. If you know, it's not the worst five in the world. If you had a 15 for power on it every day, you wouldn't, you know, you'd probably hold it two or three times so you wouldn't be losing out to the field. Is it still the challenge that it was? Because if you think back to 1984, Tom, sorry to do this to you. And the poor drink is sort of, I brought it up.

You brought it up. You brought it into the conversation, but you were hitting two iron in there at the height of your game. Portrait because it's sort of I brought up Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Br Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Brick Br back to what it was. I played with Mark Leishman who I was in contention in 2015. I played with Mark Leishman and then 17 when we got to it on the Sunday the opening 2015 and that's not with the new back date. It was a golf hole. It like it was a drive and a ward or a long iron even which we haven't seen. I haven't seen that in professional golf. I just haven't seen a golf hole. I can't tell you except seen a golf hole. I can't tell you, except for that one hole. I can't tell you when I was potentially hitting a ward to a par

four. And you have to go left, even going down the middle, even the left half, you had to hit a good strike to get over the other bound. So it does like as much as it can play easy and you can hit a driving away to it, if it gets firm and fast it has a bit of bite to it when you have to play it on the pressure and like there was people going up the second fairway on 17 that day you hit it in the roof you weren't getting to the green at all you had hit two a good driving along iron now a two iron back in time today that's probably four iron left for us now but you know it's it's still has the potential of being a big hole. Clearly if you get nice Sony weather the one of the issues with modern equipment and that and we'll see this

the better the weather the better the equipment performs so if you get a Sony warm day you know players can hit the ball 300 yards plus in the air and then on a Lingx golf course that can be you know 30 40 can hit the ball, 300 yards plus in the air. And then on a Lingx golf course, that can be, you know, 30, 40 yards a room. But you get Lingx on a tough day. It all comes back down, you know, the ball starts carrying 240. And you're not carrying those bunkers and any miss here is,

yeah, that's the beauty of Lingx. I would say, I have great memories of Sony weather, but I know when I played in Murphield in 2002 I played for an hour in that storm that came in. I have never seen weather as bad in my entire life to be on the golf course. But again the course didn't flood, there was no lightning, play on and I've never seen conditions as bad but the open championship you get what you get there's no I think that the R&A and the open pride themselves in the fact that look we're not doing anything to the

golf course if you've got heavy rough it's because the weather was that way we're gonna set the course up but if the rain comes in, we didn't decide that. It's just going to play difficult. And okay, maybe the afternoon guys are going to get a beautiful afternoon, but we're not controlling it. And I love the fact that the open, they don't try and control it. They let nature take its course. And if we get a sunny one and some of our best opens are to burn out ones where the ball

is running. And we do get 20 on the par. That's okay. We're not gonna trick it up to give to make people shoot level par because nobody likes that but the weather can make sure you can Tom which word for you you must have some bad weather tournaments where I remember I remember good weather but which ones for you now was there Was there any particular bad weeks for you? Well, the toughest day I played in Open Championship Goffit. Not 2002. I wasn't, didn't play that day, I missed the cut.

That was that Saturday, I believe. Yeah. And, but, yeah, near field. But I do remember opening around at Near Field in 1980. And that was, didn't know whether they're going to play or not. It was raining sideways, the wind was blowing 30. It was cold, the harvester Scottish harvester was covering the golf course.

I remember that was the toughest day. Maybe the best round I ever played in the open championship that day. I shot 68 and ended win in the tournament, but again, that was the term of the time. It's putting so well And you know, as you said it takes a little bit of pressure off you when you've been you know, we're gonna make every putt I have to say sorry. I was just gonna chip in on that Mulefield story Poor drink and just to say I mean I the thing I love about covering the open for BBC Radio is that I'm out on the golf course I'm able to be watching the golf first hand and I just love that part of my job It is the best week of my working life every year

And that day I'd been confined to the commentary box and normally I'd be really really upset That I'd be stuck in the commentary box and not out on the course But that particular day I've never been so happy with the roger. I win say to Tom's commentator, right? He also, we're professional golfers and you're a commentator. We're soft because we travel and we follow the sun. It's quite naive of us or foolish of us to actually think they're gonna call it off because that was the same in 2008 with the first day as a Royal Berkton. People are standing there, they're not going to make us go out, they're going to call it off the weather so bad, they never call it

off, just go and play. That's the attitude. Because we're a pros, we're so used to, it's not great, I don't want to go out in that. Not when it comes to the open championship. You're going to play, it doesn't matter, what the conditions travel, you're out there playing. And that is going to happen in a virtual sense over the weekend, over the coming days, the highlights, the big denouement from 11 o'clock on Saturday, British summertime, just before we let you go, because we've, British summer time, just before we let you go because we've gone

way over time, guys. A quick thought, who would be your open champion for the ages? Let's go. A solid one. We've not heard from you for ages. It's a great question. I've convinced myself I'm not going to get worked up as to who wins or who loses because that's golf isn't necessarily so and so should win. That's what should happen here,

guys, is if if if if it was a surprising winner, I would be totally okay with that because sometimes that happens in golf. So that's a great point. I, you know, I'd be not, I don't know, I'm of the tiger era. So it seems weird to me if anybody other than tiger would win. But if, you know, if it was sevy, if it was Fowdo, if it would, if it was Jack Nicholas, it would all make sense. And that's what is, you know, it doesn't mean that that player is the, is better than that player or anything like that. It's just, we're going to watch some, some golf across different areas at the old course. And that's what I'm most excited for. So I'll, I'll cop out with an answer to say, anybody that wins, I can understand it. I'm excited to see it. Okay, so that's one on the fence.

Okay, I like Sully's attitude. I've gotta say that, you know, anybody thrown in with add to the excitement and the open is about excitement. I can't go past Tom. I think Tom should win it. You know, as far as I'm concerned, not just he's won five open champ chips, the styly won those open champ chips, the drama that he created in those open champs, but also the fact that he is synonymous with the open championship. Like there are, there's orders, and you know, Jack is the greatest player we've ever had in the game of golf in terms of wins, and maybe you could see, to be fair, Tiger Woods could be the greatest player in the Game of Golf, you know, who knows. But their career is anti-s closely tied to the open, and Tom is an open, is a Link's

Golfer, is an open-champion player. I just, simply, not my sympathy, my, I'm pretty disposed to go and look, Tom Watson is the links man, he's the open man. I would actually go Tom Watson, Sevy, and then probably, you know, who could decide between Jack and Tiger at different times, but I've gone Tom Watson's Sevy. I'd even like the idea of maybe you know, just for sheer flair, I just like maybe Tronin a bit of Trevino there as well. Maybe he's is he an outside bet maybe, but I'm going Tom Watson's Sevy as my one two. See I didn't I didn't go for Tom because he wasn't so confident he was going to win. I didn't seem like the right pick. Now you're making out that the results all important.

I'm with you, I'm with you, Paul Drick. Tom, every step of the way, five times a champion and don't forget 2009, where obviously at the age of 59, he called the lowest round of the week over 72 holes. So, you know, and if you want to hear lots and lots about that, then check out the open conversation from the RNA because Tom and I had a massive chat about that just a couple of weeks ago and that's out there.

But Tom, the final word to you as a five time champion, who would you plump for and you don't have to be modest? You seriously don't have to be modest you seriously don't have to be modest Harry Varden Last 50 years last 50 years dammit I think you have to go with I think you have to go I think I have to go with Tiger probably.

Jack is there and Sevy is there. I'm there in a certain respect. I won more tournaments, but I didn't win at St Andrews. Since this virtual tournament is open championship at St Andrews, I think you have to discount my five wins to those people who have won on that St Andrews. I think you have to discount my five wins to those people who have won on that St Andrews. So I think when all of a sudden done, I think you're gonna see Tiger winning it

and Jack are close second. Well, we shall see. It's a fascinating debate. We could have talked on and on and on about the Open Championship. It is a big shame that we're not able to be at one this year or being well, we will next year for the 149th Open at Wilson George's. Listen, it's been fantastic. Listening to all your stories. Sully, thanks so much for joining us from the United States. Portrigue to you to

and to you, Tom Watson, a reminder for me and Carter. The final round 11 o'clock, Sunday, British summer time, all the details will be available for the open for the ages on theopen.com, so check that out for more of those. It's for life. Bye bye. It's been a right club. Be the right club today. Yeah. That's better than most. How about him?

That is better than most. Better than most. I Expect anything different