No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 342: Jason Bohn

Episode Date: August 12, 2020

He's back ! Jason Bohn joins to take us through the harrowing tale of surviving a heart attack, why he was concerned about his pension at the time, how pensions work on the tour, what the PAC does, some inner workings of the tour, an absolutely epic Tiger story, and so much more. Could talk to these guy for hours and hours.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yes! That is better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most! Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No Laying Up podcast, Sully here. I've got to start bi-apologizing. It is taking me way too long to get Jason Bone back on the horn. I wanted to do it in person. I've always wanted to do interviews in person.

Things aren't really that conducive for that in this current environment, if you will. I hate doing interviews over the phone, but this was flames. It's flames, it's everything you would hope it to be. I'm just sorry that it's taken this long. We need to have them back, I'll say it now. I'm vowing to have them back on before another year passes.

It's just, it's got everything. It's funny stories, some serious stories. It's a hybrid of many different things, and I promise you're going to enjoy it. And speaking of hybrids, how about that? There is a Callaway hybrid for just about everyone. There's for better players, the Maverick Pro. It's this shaping and trajectory could be right up your alley.

I'm thinking about trying one of these things. I've recently put an X-Force driving iron in the bag. I really liked it. But seeing a couple pros that I wouldn't have expected to have hybrids make me kind of wonder if I'm not, I'm definitely not too good for a hybrid. Mavic Pro and Apex hybrids are available all the way down to the two hybrid. But what about the people who need more help for these golfers? The Mavic Max has a larger footprint, higher launch trajectory.

Even goes all the way to the eight hybrid. I hope you're handy can hear me in the other room because it's about time that he starts looking to some of these hybrid options. The Ocho. If you're one of these people that just can't make a fairway work, the Callaway super hybrid could be the answer to your prayers. It was even in a club professionals bag at the PGH Championship last week. It's the hybrid that will make your fairway woods nervous about their place and your set makeup. So on top of all these options, there's a standard Maverick which is an all an all-out distance machine with a medium launch trajectory. So no matter what style of game you play, Caloay's got a hybrid that can work for you.

Check out their full arsenal of hybrids today at Caloagolf.com. That's Caloagolf.com. Without any further delay, here is Jason Bone. All right, we're recording this PGA Championship week. It's coming out at a later date, so we're not gonna pick your brain on you know too many predictions But is this your live golf TV debut? This is one of my live golf TV debut. Yes. This is my first time working with ESPN So I've done some Sky Sports golf, which was a ton of fun

I just I enjoy the British humor. I gotta say that all the producers it was awesome And it's really unique because of the whole coronavirus. I mean, I'm in my house doing it. So it's gonna be a really unique situation. Oh, I don't think I realize, yeah, you were gonna be, how's that work? I mean, people buzzing in your ear the whole time, how are you even gonna be able to kind of navigate

all that from home? I mean, like I said, I'm a complete rookie at this experience. So I'm just gonna be watching a screen. I'm going to be, I'm going to have people bugging me in my ear, kind of feed me as to what's coming and where we're going. I will do featured groups. So my first group is I've got Thursday. I'll have Dustin Johnson, Jordan Speeth, and Justin Rose.

Is it hard for you to dial back and be professional on the air and not let out any curse words or anything like that? I will have to watch my tongue a little bit. Yeah, I'll be honest with that, but no, I think it's, yeah, I mean, it's all kind of the part of the environment you're in, right? Like, and you gotta know when you can let go and when you, and I'll understand that.

Now, I think being a home, this could present maybe some challenges, so I'm gonna have home, this could present maybe some challenges. So I'm gonna have to be cautious as to what I say. All right, well, I know, I just listened back to our episode from last year. We ended it with saying, I think we left some good stories on the table. Most notably in my mind,

we talked about your million dollar ace and I advised people to go back and listen to last year's episode first as well. But you made it an ace as an amateur. You won a million dollars. You turned professional. Had this great celebration at the bar that night. But you told me a story later that night after the mics were already off.

What did you guys do after that trip? Where did you go in and what kind of vehicle? Oh man, you want the Madagrah story. So, yes, so I've never been to Mad Grau. It was, I hit the whole in one November and you know, after I kind of figured out what I was doing and where I was going with all this, I told all my buddies, I was like, hey, you know, I'll take y'all to Monte Grau. I'll pay for the rooms. You guys just buy the cocktails and we'll, you know, we'll call it all even. So I started to make some phone calls. This

is back, you know, early 90s. I mean, nobody has cell phone. I mean, you're just picking up. I mean, I honestly can't even remember to tell you how I got telephone numbers other than calling directories and asking for like the Hilton. And so I'm calling all these numbers in New Orleans. And I am like, I'm maybe a month out, maybe three weeks out from Montagral. And I'm like, hey, I just need a couple of rooms and people are just laughing. I mean, on the phone, they're like, you gotta be nuts, man.

I mean, this is the biggest celebration. Maybe in the United States, and you're calling three weeks, thinking you're gonna get a prime hotel room. So, I need us to say I come to find out, like there's no chance. I mean, the closest place I think I could have gotten would have been like 40 minutes away. You know, we're 19 years old. We would have been legal at that time to consume alcohol. And so, I was like, there's no way.

We wouldn't be, we couldn't drive. So I was like, all right, well, we can't do it. So I'm sitting in this finance class one day and like this big light bulb goes off in my head And I'm just like oh man. I got a great idea what I'm gonna do is I want to pack everybody in a you haul And I'm gonna drive the you haul down there and we're gonna go to Monty girl out of the back of this you haul And I just was like this is brilliant. So I I'm just thinking you know 19 years old Wasn't really thinking but I was kind of thinking and This is brilliant. I'm just thinking, 19 years old, wasn't really thinking, but I was kind of thinking.

So I had a friend of mine who, he was kind of partial mechanic that I met in the dorm. He was always tinkering on cars and stuff. I came up with the idea, well, I'll go rent this in town, the biggest U-Haul I could possibly rent in town rental, which was at that time, it was like 29, 95 a day. I'm like, I will put all of my apartment furniture in the back of the shoe hall, and we will just, I'll take all my buddies and go. And I asked the guy, I was like, can you unhook the odometer

on this shoe hall? And he's like, absolutely, I can do that. So, I'm thinking like, you know, we're gonna put like six miles in the shoe hall, but I actually go to New Orleans and back. And so I round up all, I round up the few guys that I told him, we're going to go to Montagrol. And one of the gentlemen was a Swedish guy,

and he didn't drink at all. And I asked him, I was like, hey, would you like to go with us to Montagrol? Because he was like, I would love to see this experience coming from Sweden. He was like, but I rule number one, the only rule is I drive and nobody else is allowed in the front. And we are like, but I rule number one, the only rule is I drive and nobody else is allowed in the front.

And we are like, loser. Oh, yeah. I mean, you got it, buddy. This is getting out. Now we got a designated driver to the body ground. And so he piles in the front of the shoe hall. We all get in there. I got like these bunk beds and we had a battery operated lanterns.

We had a keg in just a tub of ice, and we had fans battery operated fan. I was like, I'm a flat, absolute genius right now, because I said, we're gonna go to Mari Girl for 29.95 a day. You know, I was like, this is brilliant. Split how many ways, too. Yeah, I mean, I told him I'd take care of the U-Haul. You know, they just, so we got in this car. Everybody was so excited. And, you know, we started partying on the

way out of Tuscaloosa and our my sweetest friend, Freddie, just decided he was absolutely going to slam on the brakes and just toy with us. And we just go bouncing around the back of this U-Haul. Maybe, like, not very bright, but we were just dying laughing, having a ton of fun. And at no point, so we go down to Montagral. And to this day, or all the years that I played in New Orleans, which is kind of ironic that that was one of my victories was in New Orleans, was dessert classic. But I would stay downtown. I would drive over the bridge, which we parked this U-Haul underneath, which we were able

to talk in to one of the parking attendance and just pay this guy off and just let us park our U-Haul underneath, which we were able to talk in to one of the parking attendance and just pay this guy off and just let us park our U-Haul there. And he was awesome. He kind of helped us look out for it so nobody would break in and take anything. And we get down there and we're just, I mean, it's nuts. We're partying, we're having so much fun.

I mean, as you've seen in all pictures and anybody can possibly imagine, I mean, it is just your shoulder, shoulder, everywhere you go down in Bourbon Street. And we're having just an absolute blast at no point during the whole ride down there, which is a good six and a half hours. Probably took us eight in the way,

and how many times we had to stop? Because the back of the door had to be cracked, right? So that we could get any sort of sunlight in there. And mainly the main reason why, so we could use the sort of sunlight in there. And mainly the main reason why, so we could use the bathroom. Oh my God. And so we just had to kind of pee out the back corner and it was just flying out.

Because we would be pounding. I mean, we didn't have cell phone. We had no way to communicate. So every now and then we'd stop and we'd open the door and get out. But that was the only method of ways to use the bathroom was to kind of go out the back corner of the little door. So we're down in there. We're just having a great time at no point. None of us, not one of us, was smart enough to think, where are we going to shower?

Like where are we going to use the bathroom? How are we going to brush our teeth? I mean, none of that ever hit us. And so it was a ton of fun for three days. We slept in this U-Haul, we were just nasty. I mean, it was, but going down, we thought, that everybody thought it was a genius. Coming back, everybody thought it was the biggest idiot on the face of the planet. Everybody was just disgusted, we were just sick, we were, you know, we had, oh, it was just awful. We had thrown up in the U-Haul.

I mean, it was just, it was awful. The U-Haul was just absolutely trashed. So I get back to the Tuscola, and we drive this U-Haul to a dump. I take all of my furniture that was in that U-Haul. I just dumped it out into this dump, and we sprayed the back over that, and we re-hooked the odometer,

and turned it in for a four-day rental. So I mean, to think that I did, you know, monograph for 150 bucks for four days was pretty impressive. So that was- It cost you the furniture though. It did cost me the furniture, which if you would have seen this furniture and anything around this furniture, you would not have wanted it. So after five guys had spent, you know, four days in the back of a UR,

it was pretty nasty. Well, you know, the story you told again about having to give up your Amateur status and whatnot. If I'm reading it right on your Wikipedia page, it now says that the USGA has exemptions for whole-in-ones in terms of accepting prizes. Do you know about this? I do know about this, yes, and it is absolutely true. So Mrs. Smith can hit a home one in the 15th hole collector catalog and still play in the ladies club championship, which makes a lot of sense because it is completely potluck. And at the time, had this rule been this, my situation would have been different.

I would have been able to compete and play college golf. I would not have had to turn pro. But at that time that I hit the home one, it was anything that exceeded $500 in value. Right. Then you had lost your amateur status. Well, how would that have affected you? I mean, I wouldn't have gone to Monty Grouge.

I could tell you that. Ha, ha, ha, ha. No, I probably, it would have been a massive effect, to be honest. I just think it would have been a massive effect, to be honest. I just think it would have been the student athlete, right? And I went from being a student athlete to just a student, and that was a pretty really cool experience for me. I mean, I'm so grateful that I had that opportunity because I think I enjoyed things at a level

that I might not have been able to enjoy them as a student athlete. Now, as a student athlete, I really enjoyed things that I would have never been able to enjoy as just a student also. So I mean it was a great, I had a great combination. I wish it might have been a little bit longer as the student athlete part, but that's just the way it panned out. Well, part of me hates wasting, not wasting, but spending any of the time we get to chat about anything serious, but somehow we miss, time we get to chat about anything serious. But somehow we totally missed a huge life event that happened for you basically on the golf course a few years ago,

and you had a heart attack. So I wondered if you can fill the audience in kind of on the details of the story because rereading it honestly kind of scared the hell out of me because it sounds like you didn't even know what was happening or that it was happening. And so kind of take us through that timeline and what that experience was like. Yeah, that was, it was a pretty crazy experience in my life to be honest. I just never thought. And I mean, I'll be flat out honest with you. And honest with myself, I may not have taken care of

myself in a situation that others would or, but I did everything pretty much in moderation, I would say. You know what I mean? If I had alcohol or if I had nicotine or if I did those things, they were kind of all in moderation. It wasn't I wasn't. I didn't do anything in my opinion that was just fully excessive. But I'm playing at the Honda Classic. This was four years ago, so it had been 16. I I mean, the Honda, we're playing down there. It's probably the Bears trap, it's probably one of the most difficult stretches of golf we play.

The whole golf course is just hard. I mean, you can hit it in the water at any point, make a double bogey and you're missing the cut. And I just wasn't feeling that great. A couple of weeks earlier, I had the flu, and I took a week off, and I got the flu out in Pebble Beach, and I flew home, and I kind of sat in my basement and just kind of, I really literally like quarantined myself from my family.

And then I felt better, I went down in the Honda Classic and this was Friday morning I woke up and I was kind of, I wasn't feeling great but I wasn't feeling awful and I was like, all right, I just, I gotta get through today. I was kind of right around the cut line and I can't remember exactly what I shot, but I know that coming in to the last four holes, I had to play them in even part to make the cut. And the whole day as I walked, I just kind of felt like, all right, you know, when you're grandma, when she tries to hug you,

but she just doesn't have anything and she's just squeezing you and you just get this little ton of squeeze. Well that's kind of what it felt like every time I would take a really deep breath. It wasn't anything painful, it wasn't anything like strong, it was just like my grandma was just trying to give me a little bit of a hug. And I did that the whole day, you know, kind of as I got through. And then the last few holes, I had some stress going in and just, I made some great pars

and anyhow, I get done with the round and I'm like you know I don't really feel that good and so I'm in the scoring trailer and I know we have access on tour to you know all kinds of doctors and things and I was like hey look I probably just got to get a Z pack I get me some arithmetic and something inside of me and to knock out whatever's going on in my body so I can get through this weekend on tour. And so I asked the scoring official, I was like, hey, can you call some doctors, paramedics, whatever.

I just need some, I'm not feeling great, I'm going to go in the locker room, I'll just be sitting in there. If you could just call somebody and have them come down and meet me, that'd be great. So I'm sitting in the locker room and these paramedics come in and they're like, hey, how you doing? I'm like, yeah, I'm pretty good. I just have, you know, kind of every time I take a deep breath, you know, I just kind of feel like my grandma's giving me a hug. Not, I just don't feel like myself.

I just know something's just a little bit off and I just was kind of open to get maybe, you know, prescription to get, you know, some sort of antibiotic and let me knock this thing out. And so these guys, you know, they're doing their job. They're really diligent. They're great at what they do and they kind're doing their job. They're really diligent. They're great at what they do.

And they kind of hook me up. They listen to my chest and then they listen to my heart. And then they're like, okay, we're gonna hook up to like this little EKG. And so they did. And while I'm hooked up with this EKG, the guy says, hey, listen, I think you probably need, you know, I think we'd like you to go to the hospital.

And I'm like, okay. I'm like, I appreciate you guys are maybe a little bit overreacting. And I said, all right, I'll tell you what, I'll go, but I'm staying right on site. So let me go take shower, get rested, and then I'll go check myself in or whatever. And he's like, I don't think you understand.

He goes, we're gonna put you in the back of the stretcher, and we're gonna take you to the ER. And I'm like, really? I like, man, I just want a Z-pack. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not looking for anything. And so they do, they strap me into this gurney or whatever they call it. They they wheel me in the back of the ambulance. And on all my friends and everybody, I'm right out in the middle of the club and they're just kind of looking me okay. I'm like, I'm fine, man. You know what I said? I said, I think this is an overreaction. And I'm in the middle of the club and they're just kind of looking at me, okay? I'm like, I'm fine, man. You know what I said? I said, I think this is an overreaction. And I'm in the back of this ambulance

and the paramedic is talking over a walkie-talkie to, I guess I'm assuming the hospital. And all of a sudden they said, hey, we won an IV in both of his arms. And I just looked at this guy and I was like, what the fuck? I mean, come on, dude. I just want a Z-pack. You know what I mean? I'm just like, yo, when I at this guy and I was like, what the fuck? I mean, come on, dude. I just want a Z-pack.

You know what I mean? I'm just like, yelling at this guy. I'm like, I said, I know we got great insurance on tour, but come on. This is ridiculous. So at no point did they ever tell me anything that was going on. They really were great. They were like, hey, the hospital, you know,

they kept me very calm. So I go in, we're wheeled in the ER, and I hear on the loud speaker above out in this emergency room, they said cardiac arrest in room six. And as I'm wielding, I look up, and they're wielding me in room six. And that is how I found out that I was having a heart attack.

I mean, as I just, it was amazing. Like it was so subtle that I just would have never thought that, you know, that was what a heart attack. I would think you have an heart attack, like, I mean, it's Sanford and Son, you know, like, I'm coming to you, weasier. I mean, you're grabbing your heart, you know, you're just screaming, like your body's just screaming at you,

like, shut down, just stop doing what you're doing. Nothing like that at all. So. Well, the reason why it scared the hell out of me is this something not too similar, but somewhat similar happened to me like two years ago. I had like been experiencing some dizzy spells and went to a doctor and they gave me an EKG.

And the guy I looked at, he's like, all right, this doesn't look right. And then gave me another EKG and then came in and said, I'm sending an ambulance for you. Like, I'm sending you to the hospital right now. And I was like drove myself there and I wasn't even feeling the pains that you were feeling, but I ended up, I was like, no dude,

like I can drive myself there. And I drove there and they thought I was on drugs. The guy had called ahead and said, you know, we have a potential heart attack for the victim driving himself to the hospital. And I feel totally fine. And so they like, as soon as I get there, they wheel me in, there's doctors everywhere,

hook him up to all this stuff. And I'm afraid I actually might be having a heart attack, but I don't feel like I am. And it's kind of almost like it eerily similar to your story of like you were actually having it. They thought I was having one, and I was, they ended up, they explained it away later kind of what the issue was, but gosh man,

it just like scares the crap out of me to hear it. I believe what's the, the artery called, is it the, or what you went through it was called the widomaker? Yeah, my widomaker was 99% blocked. Oh my God. So yeah, it was just, it was a weird, I guess to your point in your experiences, like anything that you just feel

is different, you just kind of kinda went when it comes to that, you just kinda gotta get it checked out because my doctor basically told me I was the story of you're an app away from never waking up. And that's just kinda what happens and you hear that story all the time with like, he just didn't feel well when he went and laid down. And basically when your heart can't eject,

your ejection fraction of like how fast and how hard it can push your blood back out It goes backwards and it goes up into your brain and you're taking a nap and then whoo, you know, you're just you're done On your way into the emergency room I understand that there was you were concerned about your status in the tournament You were placing phone calls trying to figure some things out. Do you remember this part of the story? I certainly do, yeah. It was pretty amazing because I remember that, so at the time, they had a rule that if 78 players or more

made the cut, then there was a secondary cut on Saturday. And so then, you know, people would be eliminated. And now currently, those rules have changed. But I kind of didn't like that rule because I was one of those guys that like, if I just could play, maybe I could pick up something. You know, even if I was in last place, I might get the sensation of this feel that I could carry him in the next week. So I wanted to play all four days.

I made a cut. I want to play all four days. I don't care whether I'm in last place. There are some guys who didn't have that philosophy. And I understand why the tour needed to change those rules. But anyhow, that's a whole other story. But I am right at, I'm looking at the cut line. I'm like, hey, I'm gonna be like the 78th guy.

And then I'm like, okay, if I withdraw, then before the cut is made, well, I might not get my pension credit, which the PGA tour is a phenomenal pension. And every time you make a cut, you got a cut's plan credit. And I was like, but I made the cut. Just because I'm an architect, I'm not going to be able to play tomorrow. It doesn't mean I didn't deserve to get that. So I'm like, I don't know what to do. I know there's no way I'm going to be able to play golf tomorrow because the doctor, like, I'm going to have a stint in me and I'm probably gonna have surgery that night or the next day and I'm like so I'm like, but if I withdraw now then

That could change the whole numbers of the cut and I said I'm not really sure how to do this so I pick up the phone and I call Slegger White who is our main rules official that week and I'm like slugger I'm having a heart attack and I'm in this ER and I'm on the cut line but I don't know whether it was draw not withdrawal. I mean what do I do? And so I'm like he goes well you know he tried to explain the same scenario to me if you withdraw before the cut is officially made then you know you might and I'm like okay well here's deal. I'm 99% sure I'm not gonna play tomorrow, but I won't know that until the cut's made.

So, and so I just, and I said, I just want you to kind of know that if I'm the 78th guy that there's only 77 guys now gonna play, they might not have to have a secondary cut. And I'm like, so I'm looking at also for my other competitors because I know there are some guys who would love to just, you know, play one more round and go home. You know, get their money, their last place,

get their, you know, their one FedEx point or whatever it might be, accumulate to be, and then just, you know, they get home a day or they're a family, but I wasn't that guy and I also know there are guys out there that are like, hey, you know what? This gives me an opportunity to try a new putter, new driver, new equipment that I've been wanting to put in the bag, and now I can test it in competition.

And so, anyhow, it worked out. I withdrew after the cut line. I got my pension credit, and only 77 guys played that weekend, so they didn't have a secondary cut. A quick break here, checking in with our friends at Precision Pro. You guys have been buying up all the range finders they have I continue to get great feedback from them and they're actually going to be the presenting sponsor of Taurus saw season six Which we're off filming right now Right now the next seven pro slope on sale for $219 our listeners can receive an extra 20 off using promo code no laying up That means a brand new rangefinderer with slope for $199.

One of the best deals on the market. You know precision pro golf is the only range finder that offers free battery replacement services you're getting. Not just a range finder, you're signing up for a lifetime service. Everyone needs a range finder. They can trust to know the precise distance to their target. You never want to be the guy asking the other guys

in the group if you can use their rangefinder. They can gun a number for you. Just, you need, everyone needs their own rangefinder. They've also got a brand new NX 9 slope. We just got our hands on these. I'm actually on my way to go test it out for the first time here today. Very excited about this. A lot more to come with precision pro in terms of their app development. And it's, it's a company you're going to want to be involved with.

And we are thrilled to have them as a sponsor and moving forward as well. So go to precisiongolf.com, use coupon code no laying up at checkout for $20 off our favorite range finders. Swing with confidence, hit more greens with precision pro golf. Let's get back to Jason Bohn. All right, you got to break down how good this pension is. I honestly couldn't even begin to explain

how the PJ Tour pension works. So let us let even begin to explain how the PGA Tour of Pension works. So let us let the listeners in on how some are all that works. Okay, so the PGA Tour of Pension is like maybe one of the most phenomenal pensions ever put together in sports and maybe in business. And I give so much credit to Commissioner Tim Fincheng for doing this. He pulled some strings and he worked his tail off

to get us an opportunity to know that we're going to be able to survive post when we lose our tour card because of the pension that we're going to end up collecting. And a lot of it comes from your performance of like FedEx Cup. So at the end of the FedEx Cup season, you'll see a guy initially, he was winning $10 million and he would only get paid one million of that in out in cash initially and nine million of it would go into his pension. So all the FedExCup payout all went into your pension. So you're accumulating and the tour is managing this pension which is now well over a billion dollars and that's a

B for all of this players which is amazing to me that all of this money, because it's a non-profits, coming from televisions, coming from the FedEx Cup plan, and then every single cut you make on the PGA tour is worth X amount of dollars. And like, I could get this number wrong, so I'm just gonna say, we're gonna say, let's just round it up and say it's $5,000. So they're gonna put $5,000 in your pension every single

cut you make. And after that, which I think that number is probably a little bit high, might be around $3,500. But like I said, I could get it wrong. So after you make 15 cuts on the PGA touring the same season, that number doubles. So you could potentially, if the number is five, it's now 10 grand. And that's every single cut you make the rest of the season. So you add up all those cuts that you've made throughout your career. And those things are just compiling and drawing interest on a yearly basis. And it's, I mean, when you look at your pension at the end of your career, I mean, it's amazing the amount of money that the

tour is going to give you after you play golf. And it's really enabling us and helping people so that you don't hear, in my opinion, of the story where the guy, hey, you know, he's making a lot of money, he's making a few million bucks a year, but he's spending his paying his taxes, he's getting out. And then he comes out, he loses his tour card when he's 44 years old. And all of a sudden you see him like selling stuff on the street. And like I don't think that will happen on the PGA tour because of the pension. Starting when you're 45 years old, if you don't play 15 full events of the year, you start pulling your pension.

So. So you've started pulling your pension? I've been pulling my pension, yes. And it's a phenomenal draw and it's great. It comes in on a monthly basis. And then it's for me to do what I decide to do with it, which is great. And it's just, I don't know, for any PGA tour guy who's out there

and to receive your full pension, you need to be vested over a five year period. So it is a difficult task. It's not like, you know, you just go out there for a year and you become fully vested. That's not how it works. You need to, you know, produce and show that you've been a part of the tour in the organization and you've added value to that organization for multiple years in a row. So I think it's a great setup. But I also just, I mean, I just know that guys, like you hear sad stories of guys,

you know, they didn't spend their money wisely, they didn't invest wisely. And I just, I don't know that you're gonna see too many of the PJ tour guys, once they kind of reach into that 45 zone. Really, you're not gonna see them out. You're not gonna hear the sad news. They're gonna be able to take care of themselves and their families

well what what happens if you if it's not fully vested what i guess what happens with it you're partially vested on every cuts that you make is fully vested but like your fettics cut money you need to play five years without losing your tour card for consecutive for more than two years consecutive that makes sense so uh... but in, that money would then just be kicked back into the pension. I couldn't taste specifically where it goes, but I do know that the Tiger Woods is pension.

I mean, not the Tiger Woods is ever gonna have to worry about money, but what he's done, his pension, I mean, people will be blown away by if, I mean, I personally don't know his numbers, but only seeing what my numbers might be and then correlating to what his numbers, I just, I can't even imagine what that guy's pension is. Well, how does like your pension amount compare to your career earnings? I'm saying for you personally, like, is that kind of what we're, kind of money we're talking

about here, less more around the same? I would say, you know, I would say anywhere by the probably the end of the time, based on how well you play in the FedEx Cup, you could be anywhere between 40, where I don't know, say 30 and 50% of your earnings. Okay. I guess that would be kind of how your pension comes out, which is, you know, I mean, it's basically to me, it's just basically just free money. You know, I mean, like you just, you've already, you're out there earning and grinding

it, and then somebody's stacking it behind you, you know, and then not, and you're just like, oh, wow, you get these statements in the mail, you're like, oh, that's nice, you know, whatever, you never think you're going to need it. And then all of a sudden, you start powing, you're like, wow, this is great. That's kind of nice. So yeah. So we have huge lifestyle changes for you after that? Yes, medications are awesome. I mean, I will probably be on medication. I didn't have very high cholesterol, so I'm not on like a cholesterol.

I am on a very small dose of it, but blood thinners, that type of thing, I'll probably be on the rest of my life. The foods that I eat are more cautious, I would say, I pay more attention. Now, look, do I still eat red meat? Do I say, oh, hell yeah. I mean, like, you still got to live your life, right? But I just, I would notice that like, okay, if we were out on tour, you know, we might go out to a restaurant, I might eat red meat, you know, three times a week or two times a week. And now, you know, it might be once every couple weeks or, you know, so it's those kind of things.

I mean, you just kind of, I pay a little bit more attention, you know, and I just think as a golfer, we're all, we're pretty active. We do a lot of walking, you know, we're not with exception to lumpy. I'm just kidding. These are one of my best buddies in the world. So, but we're all fairly fit, you know, I mean, and we are kind of fit in a walking shape, you know, I should say maybe not in a, you know, running shape, but I think our heart, I think it, mainly we just carry a lot of stress. And if you don't get rid of that stress, so I think that was the biggest thing for me, probably from a lifestyle changes, hey, just eliminated. You know what I mean? If something stresses you out, I really, I don't really care anymore about a lot of things that I think I used to get really

wound up about. At first, I got really irritated, even right after the heart attack, and I think it took me some time to evaluate myself and be like, hey, it doesn't matter. That guy in front of me just because he's not going at that light, it doesn't matter. You know, not to get all worked up and not to do those things, because I think all those little things in life just add up and that Probably caused a lot of my issues with stress Well, I you know any chance I get in any situations to ask the question of what what you would have done differently or what people

You know if it helps someone down the line at some point that's what I feel like I'm doing my job So what could you have done to have prevented that happening? Or is there anything that you learned as a part of that, say, man, I really wish I'd have got this checked out earlier, or blah, blah, blah. Is there anything you could have done to prepare for that? Yes, 100%. I think I could have been more on top of my yearly physicals. I think I could have paid more attention to that.

We think, hey, we're out there, we're athletes, we're walking, we're fairly fit, and I was young. So to be 43 years old, I was pretty young to be experiencing a heart attack, I thought. I just think that if you've ever heard of it in your family history, no matter what everyone has stresses and it's how you deal with them, and I just think that probably the major cause of most of the heart attacks. And the fact that, I mean, there are women and men who eat biscuits and gravy and smoke two and a half packs of cigarettes every day that will never have a heart attack.

And then there are people who run to Atholons that will. It's a genetic thing. I strongly believe in that. So I just think that once you get that 30, 35 mark, hey, you just do your yearlies, and you just pay attention to it, you just stay on top of it, and you'll listen to what your doctor has to say, and I think you can prevent a lot. What was it like coming back to golf after that? A little bit scary, I'll be honest, like I came back maybe eight weeks later, something

I came back in, I played Hilton Head, which was one of my all-time favorite places to go on tour. It was a good golf course because it's not super long and powerful and I could just kind of dink it around and keep it in the fairway. But yeah, I was pretty nervous as to how am I going to handle myself. Like, am I going to get really stressed out? Am I going to have another heart attack? Those things were kind of all kind of slipped in the back of the mind, but not really,

like kind of forefront. So I think after a couple of weeks and, you know, a couple, like, I told myself, I remember specifically telling myself, do not get upset. It does not matter. Obogi is not gonna affect you. And I'm like, I'm gonna do this.

I don't care about any shot. And on the third hole, I was already cussing myself. So I mean, like it did to me any good. The game's inside of you. You can't get it out. You're just grinding and fighting the whole time anyhow. So I mean, like, but I think I, I was 15th on the FedEx Cup when it happened.

I mean, you were off to a great start that year. And that's where I'm just curious as to how it really related to your golf game going from that point forward. I think it kind of, that was the best golf I ever played in my life. And from that point on, I never really recovered in the golf world. I don't think I ever played to the level

that I was capable of from that point on. And I can't tell you whether that's physical or psychological. I really don't know. I do know that I learned a lot that life is a lot more important than your job and that golf itself. And so maybe that, maybe I kind of subconsciously gave in a little bit and was like hey look, I don't I don't want to work that hard anymore I want to see my kids grow up. I want to spend the you know the rest of my life with my wife. I just I don't know that I can't I can't be honest and tell you that but I can know that my game was never the same after

Mm-hmm. Yeah, and it doesn't sound like there's you don't say that with regret You know, it almost seems like an important perspective, you know I guess you are you made $16 million in your career at any point did that I don't know it was her diminishing returns as far as really working hard to keep playing golf as compared to like a balance towards family home life I don't know. I've always overachieved in everything I did. And coming from a small town in Pennsylvania, going to college, hitting a home, my life just like in all honesty, I couldn't be more blessed in the way that it happened in the roads and the turns that I took. If I would ever go back, I would never change one thing. I am super grateful for every opportunity and every start I

ever got on the PGA tour. All the start I ever got on the PGA tour. All the people I've met from the PGA tour and I mean to be a hundred percent lost at the end of the road, I know that I'm going to look back and just be like, hey, I'm okay, how many trophies I got? I don't care how much money I have. It's going to be about all the relationships that I've made and all those friends that I made over those years about their grind and plan and to me like you can't you can't you can't ever take any of that away from me you can take all my money you can take my trophies you can take all that can be nothing but you can't ever take those relationships and I've had I mean I just I can't express to you I can't tell any kid that wants to go do it I just

tell him go chase it it is it one of the greatest, if not the greatest lifestyles you could ever imagine. So, I super blessed, I wouldn't change a thing. So. That's great to hear, because I guess a fair amount of people on here will come and say, hey, the lifestyles not always what people think it is.

There's a lot of travel, it's hard, it's stressful and all that. So, I honestly don't get to be many people that come on here and say the lifestyles, the greatest thing about the job. I can't imagine, I mean like, my thing is that I could probably argue that with anybody is that yes, okay, are there problems like you're checking your hotel room

and they don't have your room or you get the wrong bed or your flight has been canceled or, I mean, but you are playing a game for a living and you are chasing this little white ball around in maybe the most difficult game that's ever been created in my opinion and just and the challenges of that you're doing it with somebody who you're trying to beat their guts out right beside you and then you're having a beer with them right afterwards. I mean, I just don't know that there's any other sport or any other lifestyle that I could even imagine doing that in. So I mean, like I just, I get it, like everybody has their struggles in their jobs or their

occupations and I just, I don't know, I always think to myself, I could have potentially done something different. I could have been something else, but I'm super grateful that I was able to do this like in glad and like anytime I have an opportunity to talk to a youngster, is like, hey, I really wanna, you know, chase the tour, but I don't know if I'm good enough. I'm like, I sucked.

I wasn't even close to being good enough. But I chased it and I believed in it and I did it and I surrounded myself with people who believed in me and that's why I was able to do it. So I mean, I'm like, yeah, I mean, I don't know, I just think everybody's got this mold and they think, okay, if I don't swing like this,

if I don't have this kind of clubhead speed, if I don't do this, if I don't do this, I'm not gonna make it in a tour and I just call BS on all of that. Well, how do you go from sucking to winning twice on the PGA tour? I know that's relative, but I mean, I'm sure you're saying that in terms of you're competing against people a lot and getting defeated a lot. But what change? How do you go from sucking to being a having a very long and

successful PGA tour career? I mean, I guess when I say that is, okay, I couldn't make, I barely could make the traveling squad on a University of Alabama golf team. And I look at that and I say, okay, everybody's terms of what suck is relative, right? But like, our star player at the time was Dickie Pride, okay? So like, and I look at that and I'm like,

and don't get me right, I love Dickey, we're very close friends, but like I'm like, this was all we were trying to do is achieve and beat this guy. And so I couldn't even be a part of that team, like I had trouble qualifying and struggling to get on these teams. And so I'm looking at that, like, all right,

so I wasn't very good and I knew that but if you were to say that I think the only reason why I continued to do it is because every single year I loved it and I got just a smidge better I mean I went out in the mini tours after I hit after I graduated college once I hit this home one I turned pro but I stayed in school and once I got my degree I was like I'm gonna go chase down the mini tours. I was what they call a donator. I just gave him my thousand bucks and I played, I didn't get a lot out of it, I didn't win a lot, and it took a long time until I kind of won some events. I got played on the Canadian PGA and the PGA Tour of Canada

and I had a little bit of success out there and it just kind of just kept saying, hey, I think I can do this, I think I can do this. I'm getting a little bit of success out there, and it just kept saying, hey, I think I can do this. I think I can do this. I'm getting a little bit better, I'm improving, and I was enjoying the hell out of it. I was having so much fun doing it, so it was easy to get up and go try to get better. Well, you might be a good guy to ask about this,

just because you were on the pack, and you were on the board, and I want to talk to you about all that, and the positives of that and the benefits of that but what what kind of I don't know if you follow the pgl discussion at all or how close you have but I'm curious as to what kind of cards the tour has regarding pension or anything like that that it can play against some of these top players that may be flirting with this alternative golf league. I think that the tour would totally have, I don't think that they can go back and take anything away from somebody who would decide to go on if they were decide to do this league. I've been following it a little bit, I know it's come back up in discussions recently

about the new player league and and just I can't imagine how substantial it is. I can understand that it could be really good for potentially a couple years. But the thing that I think the tour would have total option and total controllers because you basically sign over your media rights to the tour. And I would believe that if this, if the only way to get onto this league would be potentially world rankings or through the tour itself, the tour could potentially say, hey, you want to play our tour, that's great, but it's kind of like, if you do, you have, you also sign a non-compete, right? Like for the newcomers that come in, they could be like, all right,

hey, look, you can play our tour, but if you lose your tour card, you're unable to compete in this league for X amount of years. And I think that it's potentially that they could drop something legally that would allow guys, you know, initially you could get this thing going, but I think the feeder to get more people into it, I just don't see how it could be successful. I think the tour could stop that at some point.

Well, how does that work? If players are independent contractors and considered independent contractors, and the PGA tour is a charitable, nonprofit organization, how do those two elements get combined? I guess how do they lock you in? By the way, I understand it is how the tour is providing playing opportunities for the players and the charitable aspect means that they're not paying taxes on it.

But how can they have a form of non-compete, I guess, is the question. And does the charitable organization status legally prevent them from any of that? I know you're not a lawyer, but having been on the board and on the pack, I'm wondering if that discussion has ever been had. I don't know. I do know this as an independent contract that plays a tour. I'm an independent contractor, but I still have to follow the rules and the guidelines

that I signed when I agreed to be an independent contractor on the tour. That makes any sense. I still have to follow their stipulation and their rules. Like I've required to wear pants during the tournament rounds. If I show up in shorts, I'm not allowed to play. It doesn't matter how independent I am, I still have to follow those guidelines. So I'm not saying that they could cross that boundary of, and I don't know that from a standpoint of being a charitable organization and what those lines cross from a legal standpoint of how much you are able to control your entities involved in that.

I don't know that, but I do know that there are rules and regulations in which I have to abide by to be a part of the organization. And I think that's really smart. And I think that they can modify those rules and regulations to help protect themselves and to help protect that charitable component. Because I believe if you were to lose your star power, which I hope that we don't see that happen, because if you're to lose your star power, then ultimately who is lost behind this, and which I think that people really truly don't understand

is when the tour goes to town, the amount of charities that are affected in that local community is astronomical. So during this whole COVID, where we lost all of that, the amount of charitable dollars that was lost in those communities was devastating because that's what they bank on every year when the tour is coming to town.

So I mean they budget for those numbers and they really rely on that PGA tour to show up and in those charitable donations to help those small charities in those local towns. And so ultimately those are the ones who are truly affected by it. And I hope that a few people making a decision aren't going to, I hope that they realize that if they do decide to choose and leave and go play a premier league. Well, on that note, do you find it bizarre? I don't really know how all this works with regard to the charter and all that stuff on player purses.

But since golf has returned and you mentioned these charities that are getting really set back in terms of all the money that they're not able to make from these tournaments, are you surprised that purse money has stayed the same and that the players are going on as normal and making the same amount of money they normally make while the charities aren't. Do you find that balance to be a little bit weird? Well, 100%. I find it extremely weird. And I find it weird from a business perspective.

And I don't quite understand at all. I did have some opportunities as a board member to see a few of the details, but not a tremendous amount because even as a board member, we really do rules and regulations. Or we do anything that's player-related. We have nothing to do with the business side of any of those decisions that are made from television to corporate contracts, which makes sense because we're players. We understand competition-related

items, but not necessarily business-related items. But when I'm shocked at what I'm surprised of, and I don't know, maybe this is going on, but like the term sponsors are still putting up the same amount of money, where I would have loved to see them say, okay, look, we're going to reduce some of the purses, we're going to throw more charitable dollars into these communities right now and help the communities that were less,

or that were more affected, I guess, during COVID. And the tour would subsidize some of this income for these organizations and then kind of back in them in like 10 years. So when the things kind of turned around, like if the title sponsor was required to pay $7 million, if the tour were to say, okay, look, why don't you know, you, this time you're only required to pay 4 million, it's a tour where to say, okay, look, why don't, you know, you, this time, you're only required to pay four million,

we'll subsidize the other three, two of that's gonna go to charity, and then in our next initial contract, or if you're down $3 million and you have six years coming, we're just gonna tack on, you know, a million bucks for the next three years, and you'll be paid back. Does that make sense?

And I kind of like, I think if they wrote it in the back end and figured out this thing, I think it could have made a pretty big statement to some of these financial companies, just do the fact that, to be a sponsor of the PGA tour, it's very difficult. I mean, with everything that's involved, I mean, your demographics, how much money you spend in the US, how much money you spend marketing dollars worldwide, all these kind of issues. I mean, you're really limited if you really are supportive of the PGA tour, or if your company is a good fit for the tour.

And I think the tour is kind of exhausted, potentially a lot of these companies. And so if you lose one, you just don't have a massive pool to pool from. No, that's exactly right. And that's where I'm wondering if all this stuff kind of works together with the threat of another league coming on with first substantial amount of money. This will be the worst time ever to stop paying some of your top players large amounts of money, which could potentially severely damage the PJ Tora in the long term. So I'm not even saying necessarily, you need to short-term cover these charities and focus on that.

Like I said, it could hurt them greatly, greatly in the long term. It's just fine. It seemed like J-Mont-Hans job got significantly harder very, very quickly as of the beginning of 2020. Absolutely. No question, Jay Monthance job got way more difficult. I mean, I look at it as like how difficult a golf professional's job is. You know, he's got four, five, six, seven, hundred, maybe even a thousand members. And you got to try to please all these people, which is absolutely impossible.

Well, Jay Monthance in a situation where he's got a please 40, you know, some odd title sponsors, and which is even in a more incredible task in my opinion and then he's got you know the whole COVID thing coming and now the premier league kind of bouncing back in his face and so like I just I hope that Jay settles into a couple of nice glasses of wine every night and just calms himself down. But I will tell you this, that Jay Monahan is a phenomenal human being and I think his presence amongst the tour everyone loves him. I think he's done a phenomenal job in his initial years.

The best part about him is he's a marketing guy. He understands that I think to a degree that maybe some of our past commissioners may not have and understanding the marketing aspect of the tour and of the companies its relationships with. Well, I'd like to pick your brain on that because we are in the last year of this, I don't know, I can't even keep track anymore, when the new TV deal really strikes up. But it seems like we've been in this antiquated TV contract for quite some time.

And it seems at times it's hard to watch golf on TV. I don't know how much golf you watch on TV, but it does seem like there is this big marketing push. And I keep seeing commercials for the PGA tour when I'm trying to watch the PGA tour. I'm wondering what you as a player kind of think of what you think the golf on TV experience should be like and if you think that it needs to change

and will change in the coming years. Okay, I have maybe a slightly different perspective of this because if this is your business and you play on the PGA tour, everyone used to always tell me, oh, I got to see was every shot Tiger Hit. I never got seen anybody else. I'm like, well, that's good because if all anybody ever saw was Tiger hit woods, hit

shots. And all those corporate dollars went to because they knew I was wanting to watch Tiger Woods play golf. I personally, being the little fish in the sea, don't care. I just want to play for $10 million every week. So I can understand where Tiger could be offended that like, hey man, you're showing every shot, you're saying every word I say, like, hey, ease up here or pay me more. Like I get that. But being the little guy who's just in this massive pool and trying to dip my hand in the cookie jar every few weeks,

I mean, it's a great scenario for me. So like, it's a different perspective. It's a completely different perspective than. So like, it's a different perspective. It's a completely different perspective than maybe somebody on the top end. And so it's hard for me to answer that question from their opinion, but from my opinion, I mean, yes, I understand you need the commercials.

We need to show, because we need those dollars to be behind there, to be able to play for the amount of money, because I truly believe at the end of a because I truly believe at the end of a season when a guy goes out in place and I don't know a high-end season would be 28-30 events a year and if he's the top earner and he's able to pull in say 30 to 40 million dollars in a top professional sport, I think that's relative. I think that, you know, when you look at what other athletes and sports, their top guys are making compared to our

sport, I mean, like, I think it's very difficult to do what these guys do. And so I actually know how difficult it is. Now, I don't, I haven't played in the NFL, so I can't comment on that. And I know that's a difficult occupation. I wouldn't want to get hit by some 350 pound lineman. I can tell you that. But so I guess I would like to see that the tours becoming more relative in sport. I can say that. Yeah, and that's where I knit out on.

I understand the need for the volume of commercials and all that. But it's more kind of a all boats rise, potentially kind of thing, whereas it's not even necessarily just the commercials, but, you know, Bryson and Brooks are kind of going back and forth at each other, right? Why do we have to beg for those two to get paired together? Like, if this is an entertainment product, like we should, they should, the controversy

of that should be embraced. And the strategy seems to be whitewash, everything that's possible to whitewash and present this squeaky, clean image where I'm wondering how big golf's fan base and maybe the answer is like look we know that golf's fan base is never going to really grow so we're going to appease the sponsors and do all that but I would at least want to entertain the question of like can we actually get make this product way more exciting to watch and kind of embrace some of this chaos of that comes up at. And in that situation, do all boats rise and do more sponsorship dollars flow into the sport and all this stuff.

I might have been maybe watching too much for me the one lately, but that's kind of where I would love to see the game go. Okay, me too. I love the fact that we've got some controversy. I love the fact that there's some rivalries. I love the fact that these guys are able to say things in the media. I also think that if I also know both of those players

and have been, not too personally, but have been fortunate enough to be around both of them, that if they're paired together, they could present a more cordial atmosphere than if they're not paired together. So they still have room to create some controversy when they're not paired together. So they still have room to create some controversy when they're not paired together. When they get paired together and you kind of watch,

you're like, oh, these guys are gentlemen. They're nice. Like, he's, you know, anymore, like, I mean, I don't know. So I kind of, I like that both things are happening. You know what I mean? Like, there is some separation and they let them jab at one another and that, you know, they can kind of go back and forth. And last week I thought it was absolutely brilliant. Brooks you know stepping aside saying hey there's

ants you know with the whole Bryson D. Shembo ant debacle. So like I love that. I totally get that. And I too would like to see a little bit more entertainment. I don't know that the tours there yet. I do believe that it will come in the future though. I can totally see that because the it's evolved from the beginning, right? Like all the way from when Jack and Arnie played to now. I mean like it's becoming a little bit more yappy and kind of, so yeah, I think more of that is better. You're right. I totally do.

Well, all right. So we kind of danced around some pack stuff and some board stuff, but I honestly, if I had to explain the way, you know, all that stuff works, I don't think I could. So I'm hoping you can kind of help just lay that out for listeners. And for one, just kind of, what's the benefit or Why would you you know as a player want to be on the pack or the board and kind of what roles do both of those? You know committees or whatever you want to call them. What do they what do they what do they what's the purpose? Okay, so the pack is 16 players that are voted by

Your peers and you're put into different groups and that's based on where you your peers and you're put into different groups and that's based on where you whether you're a rookie this current year whether and where you finished on the FedEx Cup or the money list in previous years. So you're broken down into these categories and out of those categories you pick one as a vote every year and you put 16 people on the pack together. Out of the pack you will have a chairman of the pack who will then eventually go on to the board and on the pack together. Out of the pack you will have a chairman of the pack who will then eventually go on to the board and on the board there are four player directors so that you will serve a three-year term and so they're constantly rotating all sometimes there'll be two people that

will go on the board sometimes just one. You must serve on the pack to be able to be eligible to go on the board for more than one year on the pack. On the pack, you serve every year. And you have to do it more than one time to be eligible to go on the board. Now the pack, it's interesting, what the pack does is there's no real voting. There's no, it's, you get together maybe every quarter and the tour brings up ideas to you saying, okay, here's some things that we've gotten from our sponsors, here's some things

that they would like to, what do you guys think? And they try to get their feedback from that. And then that, whatever the pack presents to say, so I'll tell you, when Zurich class it, because it's determined, it it was a regular tour event, and they said, hey, we need to spice this up. What can we do? How can we do this? Well, they came to the tour with the idea of, can we do a team event? And so the tour then presented that to the pack, and the pack was like, hey, that sounds like a great idea. It sounds like some really cool things could happen from this. So then the pack would go to the board, the

four player directors on the board and say, hey, this is what we'd like to do. The board would look at it, potentially modify it. However, that might be to what the format is or how to fill the categories or who gets to play, who doesn't. And then they would send it back to the pack and the pack would review it and then they would send it back to the board. And during a board meeting, it would have to be a pass and approved. Does that make sense? Yep, no, it makes sense. So, it's a very, it is a process.

And so, to be on the pack, you do have a say. The problem with some of the pack is that, so the rest of the membership is asked, hey, if you have an issue, take it to a PAC member. And then that PAC member would bring that issue up at a board meeting, or at a PAC meeting, and then potentially how far that could go, it would go into the board. Now, I will tell you this,

these are all guys who are currently playing. So their number one focus is playing. It's not on all these rules, and they listen, they talk about it, but they don't want to sit in meetings for hours and hours. They want to go back to practice, and they want to go to dinner, they want to do their thing. So they kind of move these meetings along.

So the tour initiates the majority of information, which could come from players outside. And there's a lot of instances that you might not ever think about, whether it be a medical situation or something that affected you personally, whereas, you know, 90% of the people are 99% of the people never get, they're never affected by it. So there could be a rule or a potential thing that needs to be changed, because, oh, well, we never thought that could happen. Or that scenario never happened before. And so, it's things like that that get changed and policies like that.

But it's really only competition-related items. We have no idea what these television contracts are going to be. We have no idea how these schedules are going to pan out. And we have absolutely no say or anything to do with it. What, so you've got to have some good examples, I'd imagine, of some really dumb silly stuff that has come through the pack, and the kind of also maybe, you can go either

reaction with this of some of the more serious items that you kind of dealt with or kind of saw go through during your time on the pack. I mean, some, 90% of it was just dumb shit. I mean, to be honest, it was just, none of it was really that super relevant to any of us. The big things, which recently happens, like cut size, going to 65 and ties.

They've tried to do that every year. Now, you gotta understand the tour is the business side of it. So the tour is saying, and they're getting information from their tournament staff or the rules official is saying, hey, we got too many guys playing. We can't fit all these players in to squeeze it in from TV. We got to cut the amount of guys that make the cut or we got to cut the amount of guys

that are going to get starts on so that we can do this for television. Well, every tour member is like, no, you know, we don't want you to cut anything. We want you to get more. So, you know, they oppose and fight a lot of that. So, though like, while I was on the board and while I was on the pack, they tried to get the reduced the cut size to 65 and ties. And we adamantly said no.

For some reason, they started the number with 70. We just believed it was a fine number, work around it. You know, figure some things out and make it happen. And obviously, when the board changes work around it, figure some things out and make it happen. And obviously when the board changes and they get a board that's more conducive to doing making change, they're going to bring it up again. And obviously that's what happened and they changed it to 65 and ties. Now I only think that affects pension.

And so we go all the way back to the pension thing. So the guy who's grindin' to make that cut, it finishes, you know, time for 69th versus time for 64th. I mean, that's a big difference. You know, it's a small number as far as the shot or half a shot or a quarter shot or whatever you break down to me. But it's a big number when you talk about a 15 year career. It could potentially change those numbers drastically.

We won't know that until 15 years from now. For sure. I hear guys talk about this a lot and you're someone that has kept their card for a long, long period of time. How real is the threat of losing your card in ProGolf? I mean, at least see other sports, there's obviously a lot of short-term contracts and a lot of sports but there's obviously a lot of long-term ones as well. Yet in golf, it really can go away very, very quickly. How often is that something that you thought about during the, you know, the big parts of your career and how real is that threat for a lot of people? It's, it is so real. It's amazing how real it is. And especially for a guy like myself, you know,

who I only won twice. So only two times that I think, oh, I don't have to worry about my card. I mean, like, you think about that. In every other year, I'm thinking, oh, gotta grind this thing out. Gotta play harder, gotta play more, gotta do whatever I can just to kinda grind it out

and hang in there. And to a guy who we go all the way back, that wasn't very good. That just was trying to get better and better. I mean, that's a hard thing to do. And I think that now golf, the guys who are playing the tour, at least when I played the tour, there was quite a bit of separation.

I mean, Tiger Woods was so dominant. He was so much better than anybody else. And now you look at the world number one, and it changes every, it seems like every six minutes. I mean, so everybody is tighter. So I think that it's probably more real for the guy who's getting out on tour now that's like, oh, I mean, everybody's super good.

And everybody's really close. And technology's allowed that to happen. And so I think that technology's allowed that to happen. And so, I think that, you know, it's probably more prevalent and more real now than it was for me, but still, it is stressful. I mean, you gotta think like, I don't know how many people go to job and go to work.

I guess they do, but, and it's all 100% totally based on performance every single year. And if you don't perform, you're done. I think what makes it especially hard for these guys is the fact that there is before when I played, I had Q-school. So if I finished outside, you know, the top 125 and the 150, I could go back to the final stage of Q-school and it was just six rounds of golf. Well now you gotta go spend a whole another year on the corn fairy tour, which is a whole another topic. I mean, what are we calling the corn fairy tour for? I mean, like I love the tour,

I mean, and I understand sponsors, but I think the tour missed about a long time ago, and even more so recently, when the king passed away, I think we should have called the tours, the Arnold Palmer tour, the Palmer tour, the AP tour presented by. So we always had a legend or the Nicholas or the Hogan. You know, it used to be called the Hogan tour. I don't understand why we ever got away from that, but, you know, anyhow, hold another

subject. We could talk hours on that too. So and I think that's what makes it really difficult for these guys keeping their car, just because not only is it the stress of the whole year long, but now you gotta go back and you gotta downgrade for another year, and I can tell you last year, I went out and I played a couple of cornferrey tour events, and I probably will play some in the future,

you know, to get paired to play the Champions Tour, but it's very difficult. It's really hard to go from, when you're in the big circus, it's hard to go back down and travel around to the carnivals from town to town. I mean, it's just, it's a completely different atmosphere and environment. I don't know, I feel for, I really do. I feel like I played in a great generation. I played with the greatest player to ever play the PGA tour,

in my opinion. And, you know, I'm kind of glad that my time is not over, but my time is transitioning maybe into something else. Well, I can't tell if this is something that I'm just learning more and more the more years I do this. But, or if it's something that is truly evolving in the game of golf, you might be able to answer this, or you definitely will be able to answer much better than I can.

But is the volume of professional golfers slash really amazing players bigger and bigger every year? I mean, it seems to me and some of the guys I play with down here that can't and don't have status anywhere and can go out and post 61s. It just blows my mind as the actual number of capable professional golfers that are out there that don't have status. So, does that, does something that also kind of contributes to how difficult it is to keep a car for this long? And, is that actually the reality that it has expanded that much?

Well, 100% is totally the reality. And we see that in the world rankings, right? Because, like we said earlier, I mean, we see it, it's transitioning. I mean, these guys are so close and they're so good. And that depth goes all the way down into the local country club where they're like, I mean, we got a, you know, we got a member of the club, everybody's like, well, this guy's going to, you know, make it on tour. And I'm like, it's so difficult. It's so, it's amazing how difficult it is.

Just like you said, you've known guys that can just go post the low numbers and they just have nowhere to play and they have nowhere to showcase their talent. And it's really, really difficult. And yeah, I totally think that I believe it's that lots of different reasons, but technology and the athlete, the athlete is better today. There's no question the athlete better.

And so, and the athlete enjoys the game golf and loves the game and loves the challenge of it. So, you're not only getting technologies helping everyone, you know, you kind of bridge that gap to get closer and closer, but the athlete is so much better and closer and closer than it is. And so, that just makes everything just even tighten up even more. And I see this even at Amhergolf, like at my level, the tournaments I'll go play, I, it's not good, it's not even close to good enough to just be as good as other people. Like you gotta go beat them.

And that is, and if there's like nine, 10, 20 guys in a field, maybe 50 guys in a field that are just better players than you, you know how hard it is to beat like a huge volume of those guys, like that's just what, it's just like immediately I get in there and I'm like, oh gosh, if I had to do this for a living. And of course, I'm not even talking about talent level.

I'm just saying like, if I had to go out and just beat a ton of people for a living, that would wear me out. I think it does. I think it wears people out. And I think that the longevity of careers were able to do that for 25 years because the separation between number one and one 50 on the money list was so much greater. And then it is now. Therefore, those guys could, you know, not play well for a week and still be in the top 10 or 15 or 20

or whatever it is. And they still feel like they beat a lot of the majorities. That's not going to happen anymore. And so I think that wearing of it out will just wear out the career a little bit quicker. Yep. All right. Last one we're going to get out of here on this. Usually you don't wait until the last question asks somebody about Tiger. But do you ever play with Tiger? You ever play the Praxed Round or Tournament or what of your Tiger experience has been

like? I have played with Tiger multiple times on the PGA tour and I have some great Tiger Woods stories. And and and and for your podcast because I'm gonna start with the very first time I'm gonna tell you two. The very first time I ever played with Tiger Woods Bay Hill I get paired with them on Thursday Friday and it's 8.40 in the morning on a Thursday morning routine off number one at Bay Hill and you know obviously first time you're playing with Tiger you've jack jacked up, you're nervous,

you're like, man, what's he gonna say? How is it, you know, you have no idea. You just read everything, you're like, he's, I mean, like, seriously, you know, like, I don't know, I mean, he's so big in the game. And it's, I would've said, this probably would've been 06.

So really, it had a pretty good time in his career. And we get up on the first tee at Mayhill. I mean, there are, I can't count people, but I'm gonna exaggerate and say there's 8,000 people on the whole hole, just lined up 10 deep all the way down. And I'm like, it's 9 o'clock. I said, what the hell would these people do? I mean, they do nothing.

I mean, like, do they don't have jobs? I mean, why are they here? And Tiger walks up and I'm like, ooh, nervous is all get out. And I'm like, hey, Tiger, Jason mean like, do they have jobs? I mean, why are they here? And Tiger walks up and I'm like, oh, nervous is all get out. And I'm like, hey, Tiger, Jason Bone, I just wanna let you know, I brought a few of my friends out I hope it doesn't bother you. And he just got a chuckle, then was like,

as long as they keep it down, I'm fine. And so that was my introduction to Tiger. And, you know, he is an awesome person on the golf course. I can't give him enough credit. He is super professional, super cordial, and appreciates a great golf shot, a good shot. I mean, he will compliment you and just like, I can't praise him enough at the way his actions

and the way he, how professional he is as an athlete. I love that. Every time I had the opportunity to play with Tiger, I thoroughly enjoyed that opportunity. And my next Tiger Witch story is not maybe as good a one. But we are, this is when Tiger is coming back from all of his misfortunes in his life, his bad decisions.

And this might have been maybe the second event back after the incident with his wife in the car and We're at the players championship and I get paired with Tiger and it's Sunday and it's probably 10 30 in the morning and once again those grandstands behind the players, I mean, you know, it's a major championship in my opinion and we're staying up there and I mean I'm nervous as I'll get out again just because it's tiger, you know, and I just and the whole situation, you know, he hasn't been he hasn't been playing. I mean, there's been, you know, there's so much stress on this man and and all these and everything, you know, and so we tee off and the golf course is playing extremely tough. I mean, it's bouncy, it's rock hard, it's. And we kind of hit some squarely shots

and we get off to kind of a rough start and maybe a bogey here and then we birdie the second. And we are, and he starts talking to me about the golf course and like how great it is. And he's like, I wish we could play this from Thursday on. He said, this would be the true Test of a champion and I just I just was absorbing all this because I didn't look at I don't it's so funny when you You think you think well and you think you're thinking right and then you're listening to the like the great talk and you're like

Holy cow, he like I'm like this is hard to shit I don't want to play like this. I want to make birdies and make it kind of stress-free. I don't want to be hitting good shots in the middle of the green and then bouncing off and me having to chip. I'm like, that's, that's, that, that, that, so it's funny the difference in mentality. So anyhow, I managed to hack up the third hole, make a double bogey and I just left a shot in the bunker

and it was just, I was just like, oh, and then you're doing it in front of Tiger, you know, and like, and you're just like, I mean, you just look at it before Trump came in, a bunker shot, you know? And you're like, oh shit. So we go the next hole, number four, and we tee off, and we both hit it down there,

and we're walking down the fairway. Now I got, and we use the same words, and he looks at me, he says, fuck you, bone. And I'm like, whoa. I'm like, where'd that come from? Because we've had like all these great discussions. And I was like, did I say something? And I think, I don't know, but I think he was just like,

okay, he just saw, I was, yeah, I made double bogey. I was, you know, and maybe he was just trying to break the ice and call the conversation. And I had no idea how to react to the situation. So I just kind of looked at him and I was like, well buddy, from what I read, you might like to. So I don't really know how to handle that. And I mean, he absolutely lost it. I mean, he just absolutely lost it. And it was, it was pretty, it was great. Like he kind of chuckled laughed at it. And then you know, he said it again to me and just kind of punched me in the shoulder

and I was just like, we kind of laughed. Three holes later, around the seventh tee, he blocks it way to the right, out in the trees. And all of a sudden, he comes walking out in the trees and he's like, I'm done. And I'm like, what? He reached out to shake my hand, and I shook his hand, he kind of flinch, and I was like, oh no, it's just wrist. And I'm like, is it your wrist? He goes, no, it's my neck. He said, I'm in so much pain, I can't play.

And he said, I'm sorry, you know. And so he had called, well, actually he had security. And the security had the cart and they put them in the cart and all he goes. And if you've never watched 8,000 people leave a green so fast in their life because I couldn't believe like I had hit the green and I'm saying that I'm lying up my putt when I looked up, everybody was gone. There were two people left and it was my mom and my dad and that is no lie and I just thought how the hell can they get out of here so fast I don't

take that long to read a putt I mean so it's just it's kind of a little bit demoralizing the same well there wasn't really that many people there to watch me so other than mom and dad and I proceeded later that day to hit my mom and the ankle. So I let Tiger have it in the future when we got paired together again. I joke with him and said, I hope you're going to finish because, you know, I mean, the last time I hit my mom and the ankle after you left. And, you know, and but he, I think he's got a good sense of humor. I think, you know, he understood, I think that he understood. I was just trying to joke with him and say, hey, look, man, I feel for you.

I hate it. I hate it for him. We had a conversation about him one time and his children and my children. We were playing at the memorial and I said, hey, I said, man, there's a great playground right across the street in this mall. You ought to take the kids over there. And he looked at me and said, I wish I could. And I'm just, that stuff like that just breaks my heart, you know, because I'm like, of all the things, like all the money and all the trophies and all, like I looked at that and I was like, you know, this is the one time that all those majors and all of that fame and all, I wouldn't have wanted it because I mean, you know, like it's, you know, I just, sometimes you can't comprehend that, you know, you can never think of it. So, but's you know, I just sometimes you can't comprehend that you know

You can never think of it. So but I respect him. I love that he's back I hope that he continues to play well. I hope he continues to win majors. I hope that he can break records He's done so much for me and my family indirectly that I can't thank him enough Well, did you ever find out what the source of the original fuck you bone was? I never did, never did. I have no clue. I honestly, I keep thinking about that. And I think to myself, he was just really trying

to like settle me down. He was trying because I had just made a double and I was struggling and the golf course was hard and I think he was just trying to get my mind in a place. So I he was doing that for me, which maybe not maybe if we had this conversation and Tiger was on the other end He'd be like, ah, you know, I was just whatever. I mean, so I don't know But I honestly believe in my heart that I think that's what he was trying to do and I think he would do that I think he I think he's Cordial enough and professional enough

to say, I want this guy to perform well too. I just want to beat the shit out of him in the end. I don't want him to beat me, but I want him to play well. I don't think Tiger ever wanted to win anything where somebody didn't play well. I think he always wanted them to be at their A game and then him just thump him because that just made him more confident.

Well, I like because I do have one last question. I just thought of this. I had, I hadn't, I honestly can't remember who told me this. I think it was definitely before I knew you at all. But somebody had asked you the quote, like a rookie had asked you a question or something they were playing with you and said, you know, how often are you aiming at flags versus aiming at the center of the green? And I could, I'm hoping I remember this right, but you said something along the lines of, are you kidding me? I got two kids to feed. I'm aiming center of the green every time. One, does that sound like something you would say, and two, if so, why? Okay, so it sounds like something I would've said, yeah, for sure.

Definitely, and it also sounds like that's the kind of the mentality that I had with the game of golf as far as the business side of things. I played golf like I would play poker. Whatever I was dealt with is kind of how I just played the game and so lots of times for me and my strike and the way that things are going I couldn't fire that many flag sticks because if I did I'd short side myself my short game wasn't maybe tidy enough that week and so and then there were times when I was kind of on and so I did I definitely fired at flag sticks but it sounds like something I could have said and something I could have said in a lightweight but with some meaning you know what I mean like I

mean like I could totally see myself like, yeah, aiming at the... But I also would tell you this, if I had a chance to win, I would never aim at the center of the grain, ever. I would always take the chance because I would be... If I go on, I would go all in, Ace King suited every time. I mean, I just would. I just would take my chances. So that's... Well, the more I learn about competitive golf,

the more I understand playing to fat sides of greens. That's why I ask that. I think there's a ton to that as far as how that all works out stat wise, but no, that all makes sense. So, all right, man, I know you got a crazy, busy week. We appreciate the time. I know listeners are gonna love this and we will have you back sooner than a year. I'm not waiting a year again before you come back as long as you're up for it. No know listeners are gonna love this and we will have you back sooner than a year

I'm not waiting a year again before you come back as long as you're up for it. No, man I love this. I absolutely love chatting about golf and I love sharing my opinions even though 90% of them are worthless, but I don't care. I really enjoy it And I just want I mean I enjoy everything you guys do I mean you really are putting a spin on golf that needs to be out there you really I love it. I love listening to all your stuff. I love hearing all the opinions. Everybody's the sources and you guys definitely do your research so I appreciate that very much. Well thanks man and enjoy the week this week and

we'll chat soon. All right you two safe travels. Cheers. I'm going to give it a right club. Be the right club today. Yes! That is better than most. How about in? That is better than most. Better than most. Expect anything different.