No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 349: Mike Lorenzo-Vera

Episode Date: September 2, 2020

Success came to Mike Lorenzo-Vera quickly, but it was fleeting. Now it's back, and he walks us through a wild ride of tax issues, 400K of debt, from being #1 on the Challenge Tour to near the bottom, where the money went, how he got back, and now being in contention in major championships.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yeah. That's better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No Laying Up Podcast. Sully here. We have an episode coming to you shortly. Interview we did last week with Mike Lorenzo Vera.

You may have, may remember him from his run he made of the PGA a couple of weeks ago. He has been a common fixture on the European tour. We go deep on his career. Some ups and downs. There was some great stories kind of circulating during the PGA championship week about some of the things he's been through, some of the things he's done. He goes through all of it in pretty good detail of losing a bunch of money, being $400,000 in debt, some expensive habits he had, tax issues. It's got it all. It's really fascinating. Listen, I think you guys are going to really enjoy it.

You guys know we are big supporters of the women's game, ranging from a member of our young hitters program, our regular recaps, and conversations we have about LPGA tournament action, and a whole lot more. Also supportive of the women's game, our friends at Calaway today. September 1st is women's golf day, of which Callaway is an official sponsor. Callaway took this opportunity to launch a new Women's Focus website. CallawayGolf.com slash Women's Golf, which has a ton of golf content created by women, for women. For example, we hear how Tina, not Phil, but Tina Mickelson hits her bombs and learn about the women's version of the Big Birth of B21

clubs that you've heard a little bit about. From us, the driver has been in trance. Lefty Bag for a while now. It's helped him a lot with the slice. And there'll be more on that in the weeks to come. The women's version of the B21 is called the Big Birth of Riva, REVA, kind of short for revolution. There's a full family of Riva clubs, drivers, fairways,

hybrids, and irons visit calwaygolf.com slash women's golf for more about the Big Bertha Riva line of clubs and calways support the women's game. Calwaygolf.com slash women's golf, without any further delay, here is Mike Lorenzo Vera. So let's have a little bit of fun with your name on Twitter during the PGA. Can you tell us how you did it and up going

by the name of Mike? You don't get too many French guys that just go by Mike. Is that right in saying? Yeah, true, true, because my parents called me Michael. The thing is in France, like the teachers at school, some friends, some new people you need, or sometimes you win a little amateur tournament and the director of the golf course gives you the trophy,

calling you Mikael. And I was like, come on guys, it's Michael Michael and I was like, oh, we are in France. So it's Mikael. I was like, sorry, but my parents called me Michael. We're going into an argument there. So after 33 years or 34 years of always fixing it, I was like, okay, I'm going to Mike, then everybody, when they're going to see that, they're going to say then everybody when they're gonna see that They're gonna say Mike and not meek it Except maybe the Finnish guys or Swedish guys. That's why I went to Mike because I was really bothered to

Not hear my name well, so yeah So you gave me proper troubles on Twitter That's what we do that's what we do So I do want to dive into your background a little bit. Of course, I've seen your name on leaderboards for years, but you know, it didn't know much of anything about you until PGA Championship week. But what is your golf background like? Where did you grow up? And what was your path to professional golf? And kind of what the, take us to the junior golf scene in France and what that's like.

Okay, I grew up in Gerritz, which is the points, House West of France, right near to Spain and the Spanish border on the Atlantic coast. Only less than half an hour from Jose Maria, Ola Saban. So it's always good to have no legends, not too far from you to inspire you. And well, so yeah, I grew up there. My parents just had a food shop, pretty good in Gerrits, but you, but in that place, a lot of people play golf, so they managed to put my brother and I to the golf school. And that's how we started, just giving each other a little contest, because my brother was really good as well. He turned blue and he's been pulling me up always. And then sometime I called, I cadded for him at Q school and then after he cadded for me at Q school so you know

we've been pulling each other really really high and well he turned to be a golf teacher so on European tour as well and me I was really I was kind of the kind of best players amateurs in France Then I turned pro in 2006. In 2006, I finished top five of the Alps tour, which gave me a spot to the challenge tour. The challenge tour, 2007, finished number one on the year, and then I went to the European tour. So I spent three years on the European tour,

then went down like really big troubles in my game in my life and then back up to in 2014 on Challenge Tour and up again in 2015 on European tour and it looks like I'm handling things much more better now. All right, that's it. That's the end of the podcast. That's your whole career right there. That's it. Okay, so I want to hear about the Alps Tour.

I don't know if I've ever really asked anyone about the Alps Tour on this podcast, but kind of what the competition levels like, what the golf courses are like and what the scene is like on the Alps Tour and what your best memories are from that. My best memory is when I was invited as an amateur to play an Alps Tour in France and then I won it. It was in May, so Norse, East, or France. And a year after I came back as a pro and I won it again. So that was kind of a little good moments on Alp store.

But you know, it's like third division in Europe. So you cannot expect like Harding Park courses, you know, or Best Bed, you know, it's really open courses. The guys are doing what they can with the budget they have, so it's already very interesting that actually the Alps store exists, because I'm not sure anybody makes money from that. So it's really cool to give, you know, like opportunities to the players to jump on the channel store. So yeah, it's it's kind of small courses scoring really low. And yeah, just try to earn your, your spots.

And we kind of race past this because you said you went straight to the challenge tour and you finished number one on the challenge tour in 2007. Did you, did you have an idea that you were that good at that point? I mean, did you, did you, did you, uh, I guess, yeah, was that a surprise to you at all? No, no idea. I had big dreams because of Tiger. Tiger put my mind somewhere in the sky, in the sky. So I was playing hard, practicing hours in that night,

bringing the cars on the green to have some light and make shipping contests with the friends and stuff. But I really hadn't had no idea I was that good go and go. But I had no idea I was so bad at organizing things and be fit and be mentally prepared. So I was really good at go. But the rest was really wrong. Well, I know I've read a lot about your relationship with sports psychology and mental health and everything, and I want to get into that on the back half. But when did you, I guess, when did you start to realize that you had, you have all this talent,

but all the pieces of the puzzle aren't there because you go to the European tour in 2008, 2009. I think you made something around 483,000 euros, but then things changed for you. So I guess when did you start to realize that you know things were not all adding up for you and kind of take us to that time period? Well, I think, you know, I'm French or sometimes the French wait to be really, really, really low to understand that you need to do something else that works. Like we're really trying to dig deeper than to check if really we are in really deep shit

or not. We are really insisting in that. So yeah, I was actually understood things when I was almost last on Challenger Shore in 2013. I was like, okay. Now you need to do something because in Kazakhstan I played the front line on the first day of 2013 and I'm leading by 203 playing pure and then the switch of button and you miss the cut by 4 or 5.

And I was like, what's going on there? That's a moment where I was like, okay, something is really, really, really wrong. And my wife insisted on the fact that I was not that good anymore. That was pretty fair to her to say that. But it was really true. And from there, I kind of stepped and jumped and had plenty of good decisions, worked hard. And here we are, back where it looks like good golf.

Yeah, well, so take us, you know, you're success immediately on the European tour, and then I obviously read your blog that you had on the European tour website, which was just fantastic, but, you know, you kind of, things are probably moving pretty fast for you in 2008, 2009, and you know, you're kind of having a lot of success all at once, and you say you made a lot of things are probably moving pretty fast for you in two thousand eight two thousand nine and you know you're kind of having a lot of success all at once and you say you made a lot of mistakes along the way kind of take us to that what were some of the mistakes that you made along the way and uh... kind of yeah how all that worked yeah the i believe that uh... the first mistake was

to think that playing golf is in performing golf is only practicing your golf. So that was a first mistake. So it's so much more than that. I think I gave way too much to people as well. Like, you know, you give back to your family and friends, that's fine. But like, I was giving way too much time to journalists, way too much time to,

you know, people you don't really know. New friends, you know, like new friends. have a beer here, have a beer there, lose your, you know, waste your time speaking, explaining things that I didn't even know. It was nice because, you know, in France, people thought I was really going to be like, the player in France. And I almost believed it, you know, because like the journalists were like, okay, Mike, here, Mike there, the new star, blah blah blah blah blah. But everybody was wrong there. They were wrong, and I was wrong as well.

So, yeah, that was one of the biggest mistakes. I gave way too much time and what gave too many things to too many people at this time. And so you talked about, I guess this was maybe later in the challenge story years, maybe in around 2013 that you kind of looked up one day and realized that you were much more in debt than you realized. Can you, I'm wondering if you could tell that story? Yeah, well, I had a little trouble with the tax department in France, let's say that. And one day, so how the meeting there, and they're like, do you know how much you owe us? I was like, I have no idea. They're like, you're the guy that owes the most in the southwest of France. It's like, fuck. That's going because I know some people that

have had some debts already. And I was like, oh, so it means that I have much more in that. some people that had some debts already and I was like, oh, so it means that I have much more than that. And so they're like, you're about 400,000 euros. And I was like, I can't even buy a beer with my credit card. I was like, where am I going there? Well, what happened there? How did you, did you have someone managing your taxes or how did you end up as a poor citizen yourself?

You were trying to do it. And well, do you have an accountancy license of any kind? So if I had one I should not take any customer, you know So yeah, yeah, well, I was just on a different planet So they told me this and I was and my best friend was like Man, you're in deep shit there. I was like come come on, nobody's gonna put me in jail for that. Or I will not be able to pay back. And he was like, yeah, you're right, but you're fucking crazy

to be still relaxed in that situation. So were you relaxed on the interior, though? On the moment, I was really relaxed. I was like, okay, so that's a lot of money. But if I play Good Gof, I'll be able to pay back. The thing is that, when you don't play good, it's pretty hard, you know, to pay back. So it took a lot of time, but the thing is that the more time

I was taking, the more important things I had in my life, like kids and wife, and you still see the bills coming, you know, and I was like, oh, that's where it gets really nervous, you know? Like getting in that, you know, I was getting adults for the first time. And that's all these taxes thing that were coming to me. So yeah, I think beginning I was not stressed after I was really stressed.

And that's the thing though about earnings as well. And I imagine this is even more so in the European tour than the US tour, but you know, people look at like someone's career earnings or their season earnings and they don't really think about the taxes that come out of that and the expenses that come with it. I mean, there's a lot that goes, you know, you know, if you make 480,000 euros in a couple of years, you're not taking

home anywhere close to that, is that fair to say? Yeah, even less in France, which is one of the highest country texts in the world. So you said in the blog too, you said, and trust me, I spent it really badly. So how did you spend your money badly? So for an example, it took me time to pass my driving license because I was always saying that I didn't have time for it

because I was practicing too much. And honestly, it was not that wrong because I was spending ages at the golf course. And when I really had a bit of cash in my account, I went to Ferrari. I wanted to buy a 360 Modena. Okay, all right, no problem. Okay, once you won it, I was like, okay, just let me pass the license. And then I'll just come pick it up. And the guy was like, are you wanted was like, okay, just let me pass the license and then I'll just come pick it up and the guy was like Are you joking? I was like no?

You don't have your license. It's like no, I don't say can you get out of here, please? So yeah, he kicked me out So that was the this kind of you know, stupid move and after I was you know paying the drinks to everybody like proper rounds of drinks Big rounds of drinks, big rounds of drinks. So take us there. What are big rounds of drinks? Because, yeah, you specifically cited, you know, bad decisions, partying and being very

generous to everybody around me for, you know, part of the reasons it contributed to be being a debt. There's got to be some good party stories in there along the way, at least. Yeah, sometimes with some players, sometimes with my friends, and I don't know, I could go like three times in a week out for like 10,000 euros to the party. Because... Yeah, that'll do it. Yeah, that will, that's already 30,000. And yeah, plus maybe this maybe five, six times in the year, plus all the other parties.

And actually, I didn't win that much money either. I mean, now it could work. Cause, you know, I do a few millions and, you know, a year or so. But at the time, it was, I don't know, how many did you say? 400,000, into yours. Yeah, you made 483, I think, in 08, 09, come on. So take the taxes out, take all the expenses from the coach to Caddy Brabhara, not much

left at the end. Oh yeah, that's because so you had you not done like this analysis, I guess, because that just seemed like a ton of ton of money to you. Yep. And that it would never run out. And yeah, that's, I mean, that's not an unusual story. It's maybe a little bit unusual in golf, but I mean, you hear that about athletes all over the world, you know, that aren't used to having that income and they don't know how to financially plan.

And- At the end of the day, it's pretty easy. Give money to someone which is not very mature. Nobody helping him to, how do you say? To take care of it and then done. Bye-bye. Money's gone, let me talk. How different is your money management system now?

Not much more different, actually. I might just manage to win more money. No, no, I'm just trying to be careful. Just a bit more careful than usually. I just partied much less. I drank much better wine than before, that's all. And the cars I'm buying, I'm trying to not lose too much money on it, and my watches normally are good investments. So yeah.

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No laying up is brought to you by Elijah Craig. Kentucky, straight bourbon whiskey, barred down Kentucky. 47% alcohol by volume Elijah Craig reminds you to straight bourbon whiskey, barred down Kentucky, 47% alcohol by volume. Elijah Craig reminds you to think wisely and drink wisely. Let's get back to Mike Lorenzovara. Well, what's it like, I guess, translating this back to golf, right? So you have this situation where you're far in debt,

that I guess where does your competitive spirit come from, right? I get the feeling that most people don't, you know, you don't set out in golf trying to play it for money, right? And if you did, if you really just played, like saying, I've got to earn all this money, it has to be the ten times the pressure that you put on yourself. So once you figure out like kind of this, your situation, what is it like going back to

the golf course? Is how much extra pressure are you feeling trying to earn back the money that you know you need to pay it was not you know as I said before it was not like direct pressure you know it was growing the more I was getting older and then you know girlfriend that's asking you know a bit a guy which is more serious and more you know relaxing or plus the kids you know so it was like building of the pressure. What changed? I mean, what changed in your golf game? And because things end up working out very well for you

as well, one way I feel very comfortable asking. I'm very stubborn, man. Very stubborn. You know, I failed at the first time, and I will succeed at the second time. There is no other option than that. No other option. So I was like, OK, I missed the first time. Okay now. I need to pay back my debts

But I still want to perform and you know, I've been bull how'd you say that in English bullied at school, you know Because I was the golfer and it was not cool some guys were like really Tough to me because I was the golfer And I was like that that's gonna be the perfect revenge. So I'm gonna one day, and it happened, okay? I was like one day I'm gonna see them in Beiris. I'm gonna be in my Ferrari or in my Lamborghini and I'm gonna pass them when they're gonna have a shit job because they gave me shit. And it happened man, it was one of the best moments of my life.

Just to see the guys that's kicking your ass for nothing at school, and you pass them in your Ferrari, man. This is so good. So yeah, I can get really stubborn, and I love revenge when they unfair things happen to you. Well, what's golf viewed as, like, then, if you were bullied for being a golfer in school, is it viewed as kind of a lead-a-sport or what is the, what's the viewpoint mostly in golf in France? It's at school, what they're telling me, which is unreal now when you hear that. It's like, oh, you play golf, you're gay. Oh, yeah. Fantastic.

Great education, you know. And then like proper, like they were catching my legs and breaking my testicles against the tree, like proper troubles. And in France, playing golf outside the stupid people that say it's for gay or for women or for all people. It's just that it comes from if you play golf it means that you're rich and being rich in France it's wrong. Success is wrong in France. That's, I lived in the Netherlands for a few years and I would tell people that I was a golfer and it was a different reaction than what I would get in the States. I don't know if it's a Western Europe thing, but it was definitely even, which is kind of crazy because it is a rich man's sport in the US even, but it was definitely kind of

like a, oh, so you're kind of like that. You know, would you say that that is a Western European thing? Is that fair? Yeah, maybe, maybe. But is it true? Yeah, there is some very private club for very rich people. OK, but there is still, you know, you can still play golf for not so much in France.

You know, I think it's worse in France. Really, it's really bad to just have money in France because you don't give everything back. The way you guys think in US is fantastic. Oh yeah? I think there's a lot of people still have some issues with the class system around golf in the US. But what about US golf in particular impresses you? Man, I've played only three PGA championships.

But every time the welcome, you know, and people joke with you, you know, it's not too passionate, the public is fun. Well, they say there was nobody. The two other years, it was like really fun to play. I mean, the public gives you shit, you can give back the respect to your, it's like a show. And in Europe, it's sometimes it's too, you say conventional. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, too rigid, too proper, and not as relaxed, I see what you're saying, yeah. Yeah, that's what I love doing. I love coming back to US, it's fantastic. Well, I want to get, there's a story you wrote in the blog as well about, you know, a particular moment when things turned around and it was, it came from you watching some golf on TV I'm wondering if you could relay that story for us. Yeah, I was playing really wrong at the time and that was 2013

I think you know just after this season and I see What's his name Dave or see? He was leading the tournament And I say to my wife, she was my girlfriend at the time, wife now, I was like, wow, how is he leading? I was beating this guy. I mean, he's nothing impressive about him. And she was like, she looks at me, turn around in the sofa, she was like, who's leading

now? Who's on the TV and who's on the sofa? Is that, yeah, what do you mean? He's on TV, just plays better gold than you. Is that, yeah, that's pretty simple but very true. So yeah, that was kind of, you know, one of the first push to be back. And I feel like this is the part of the movie where the montage kicks in, the music starts, and the training starts. So, like, how did, is that, was that really the moment you look back at and say something needed to change for you?

And then I guess what did change? Yes. What change is, I remember coming back my brother and I was like, man, I'm going to go to tour school, I need your help, because you know me, that we went to tour school, we just made it, just made it to have a category on Charne store and After that I was like, do you want would you like to have a look at my swing? It was again sure and then we went to Paris National in the winter, which is not the easiest Course ever. I remember he prepared like three huge baskets of balls, okay, and he told me

one thing And he of balls, okay? And it told me one thing, and he was like, okay, let's start hitting shots. So it was like, keep your weight left and just feel like you're hitting from outside to inside. So I go, okay, let's try that. And then I started to hit really good shots. So, okay, let's go on the course. Maybe after 30 balls.

And then I shot one under on the back nine at Paris National. And then honestly from there I was like, okay, I can't play golf. All right. And then if we ended the day, he told me you are allowed to take only three words from the lesson. And you keep that three words for 2014. Actually, it worked. What were the three words? It was something left, fade, aggressive or stuff like that and then made it through a challenge tour. Well, I watched the video of you and Hayden Portius hitting some shots of the European tour video. And it was in that little short video it became, it was very evident that you were in love

with hitting a fade. Was that always the case and why is that the case? Because speaking selfishly, I want to learn how to hit a fade because it seems like every golfer, I don't know what the actual phrase is, but there's some phrase along the lines of like every golfer gets good hitting a draw and gets great hitting a fade But why is that? Honestly, my fade is a different shot because No, my swing, you know, I guess you saw my swing and it looks good. It looks very good. It looks like almost elegant

But if you look you take any any coach that look at slow-mo Down the line, they're gonna say oh oh shit, it's not that good. I have so much hand action that if I don't play a fade, I can hit the ball anywhere because I'm really not a good draw player. I mean, you give me the driver and tell me to hit the draw? Shit, I'm in trouble now. So, yeah, so that's the biggest work I'm doing for the last two years now. We're able to, you know, to have a much less hand action through impact.

But to heat a good faith, normally you just put the ball a bit left in the stance and heat it strong. That's all I think about. That's what, it's funny because we always make fun of Dustin Johnson. He did this instructional video a long time ago and he said, you know, the key when you fade it is to make sure it fades. And that's what it seems like. Even in the video, you say something like, I can tell you're having a hard time explaining

it, but it's a feeling you have. And I think you even address that. and I think you even address that you say like yeah it's not going to make sense when I say this but here is how I hit the fade and that's what I feel like people describe hitting a fade that's what I get the sense that it's really hard for people to describe it. Actually you know what? Just aim left and make sure your club face is right to where you swing and contrary for the draw. If you look at recently, I think Golf TV has put a video of Jack Nichols explaining the draw and he says, like, just put the aim

right and put the face left of your body and swing your body. I need to learn some of that. So it seems like you've put a lot of emphasis on sports psychology and psychology in general. And I want to know when did that really enter the picture for you and you've you've mentioned that you were very mentally weak prior to that i want to know what what that means and i was wondering if you could expand on that well it did be no turning my psychologist uh... was playing open the spaniard two thousand

sixteen i think and i lost my dad in 2015 and my dad was Spanish so yeah you know where I'm coming so I want I want that tournament absolutely so I'm leading after three rounds in Valderama and from the moment I woke up on the Sunday to the moment to see you that you're you cannot win anymore. So that was somewhere like 14 or so. I was so weak, but so weak. And I was like, okay, so I finished the tournament and I called my best friend, which was my agent at the time. I was like, come on man, just please find me the best mental coach in France. And he's been good because he found her. So she's like a great

psychologist and she has maybe all the best sportsmen in France. And so yeah, I went to see her and then from there I, well, there was a lot of work and still a lot of work. But yeah, I'm getting stronger and stronger. So yeah, that's where I started my mental work. Well, when you say you're weak, you're so weak, what is it? Is it just negative self-talk throughout around or, you know, kind of take us to some of the things you've learned about? You probably didn't know it at the time, what you, what was holding you back, but I'm sure you have better perspective on it now, you've gone through some training.

Yeah, but it's not, you know, sometimes it feels like you are two inside your brain. And you know, when I'm telling you like, weak, it's like I was almost, you know, very little shaky, but deep inside my bones, you know, like all the body was like a little leaf in the trees, you know, with a little, the very light wind, you know, like just moving a bit. And from there, you're like, okay, you're gonna be fine. You play well, you know, with a little, a very light wind, you know, just moving a bit.

And from there you're like, okay, you're going to be fine, you play well, you're going to be fine, you play well, you know, you like very positive thoughts that you tell yourself, but deep inside you, you know, you're not strong because you feel your body. So you know, all these positive talks were just making it worse actually, because if you say to yourself like, man, you are in a very bad place now, okay, you're gonna struggle like a lot on the go, of course, today. Then there's no surprise, there's no lie. Then you're gonna be able to find the solutions, you know?

Because I was speaking to me the wrong way. I was just lying to me. So let's be honest, like, okay, it's going to be really hard. You're going to struggle. You're going to hit bat shots or just, you know, you're going to be able to fix that. That's interesting, because I think a lot of people think, you know, sports psychology and psychology and golf is just mostly positive reinforcement telling yourself you are capable of something but you're saying

the opposite of you need to be aware when it really isn't there because then you're more mentally prepared to be able to handle it i do believe that uh... psychology mental work you know is to very big different things. I'm psychotic.

When you build a house, the mental preparation is the house, but the psychology is what you build the house on. So if you just put a house on grass and it rains, the house is going to move, you know, and it's going to get fragile. So you need a really strong base to be able after to speak positively to yourself. So what have you improved on then, I guess, you know, so much in that. You sound way more confident in all of that and your understanding has improved. How does that directly relate to golf? What are the things you tell yourself or what are specific improvements you've made? Actually, it's about anxiety. Anxiety in life, the anxiety in life that I have

has been down, like I managed to with the work with my psychological work, I managed to take my anxiety level really lower than what it was. So then I have more room for the golf stress to kick in, and I can handle that. It's like imagine a glass of water. Imagine anxiety is the water and then you feel the glass up.

There's no more room to add, you know, to add anything on it or the glass is going to, everything is going to go over it and it's not going to look good. So if you put the water really low, you will have anxiety, no problem, but if it's like really low, you can still pour more things on it, and the glass is going to still look good. So this is mostly how I have been working for the last four years. Yeah, and you wrote something that I was pretty profound. I thought you said, for everybody, as soon as we do something that we like for a job and you win some cash. In the mind of everybody and even yourself, you are not allowed to be sad. You have to be happy.

I hate to say it, but life's more vicious than that. Is that kind of along the same lines of what you're talking about there? Yeah, I mean, I think that you need to understand when you're a professional golf player or football player or a successful person, you need to understand that you're a professional golf player or football player or a successful person, you need to understand that you're looking like, okay, so you started lucky because if you look at the planet, to be born in France, you know, almost a lottery ticket, you're lucky man here, okay, if you understand that, that's great. But after life is hard to everybody. Of course, I'm going to have less hard things that if I was living in Lebanon or Iraq, but you know your brain cannot handle

everything. And when people are about to you, or if you lose someone, if you struggle with, I don't know, just struggle with your face. It goes into your mind and your mind needs to be clean to perform. So if you respect people and understand that you're lucky at the first time, then you're still allowed to be saddened. Yeah, no, that makes, I just had never really thought of it that way until I read how you phrase it that way. But I can't believe we're this far into it. We haven't even talked about Harding Park. I think that, yeah, what was that like? Being in contention there, did that feel different than anything you'd experienced? And I guess, you know, you're kind of being in contention in a major right there with no fans, I'm sure that was kind of an odd feeling as well.

Well, I have to admit that no fans helped me in terms of pressure, because it might be really hard to restart after four months without any tournament and with a full gallery it might be a bit harder. But yeah it was really cool to be in contention. I mean I played really good golf the first two days and after I got a bit tired physically and mentally, and then here you go. Major course. Do not allow that. Yeah. It's ironic, maybe a little bit, I guess, I wonder if you can compare and contrast this to Beth Page, right? Because you had a great week in at Beth Page and ended up with a

great finish, whereas you didn't have a great week at Harding Park. And people probably remember your performance more at Harding Park than Beth Page. But I wondered if you could compare and contrast the two years kind of going in opposite directions. But it's so much easier to play from, you know, to come from behind. So much easier than I was like, oh shit, I finished my first run and I had my psychologist and she was like, how are you? I was like, it's gonna be long now.

It's gonna be three days that's gonna feel like two weeks. It's gonna be a long moment because then everybody's kicking in your phone. Everybody's like, come on, go take that one. I was like, yeah, yeah. So I got brooks just in those, everybody behind me and I still have three days to play. So how am I gonna do that? So it was too long for me for the moment. But it's good experience. Now I know that I need to maybe start

major championships without giving 100% on the first round. Just go play your golf and then play it like if it was a Sunday. Yeah, that's what, as fans watching on TV, every, you can't tell what's going through someone's head. Like, you almost know professional golfers really wear their emotions on their sleeve to the point where, you know, it looks very, all very routine.

So I'm always refreshed when I hear someone say, like, you know, as soon as you play a great first round in a major that you, you look at the calendar and say, this is going to, that we have a long ways to go. And this is going to feel pretty stressful going forward. Yeah Yeah, honestly, I don't know how tired you know of it without dying a 31 years old Great hair and stuff, you know, I I don't know. I don't know it takes too much energy It's turning them a golf that stressful majors. Yeah. Yeah. What's so different about majors? Well, of course, the field.

You know that the guys are, you know, we are great players. But there is like big guns that can come from anywhere, like TJ, Brooks, Justin Thomas. All these guys can come from nowhere and win. And the course doesn't allow you, if you hit the driver in the rough, you need luck to have a shot for the green or huge arms like Brooks.

Well, the European tour has undergone a lot of changes in recent years, tried a lot of different formats. I'm wondering what you think on the direction and future of the European tour. And if you've enjoyed some of the quirks and fun things they've done last few years. I've played the golf sixes. It was so cool. Honestly, I was playing with Roman Vatel for France. The only unlucky thing is that there was no like big stars. Because you put a team with John Ram and Sergio, that would be awesome. Bring me a lot of crowd playing with music.

But only once a year is great. After I like normal tournals. So one thing I read about as well that you were working particularly hard on your driving. I'm curious as to what maybe was your weakness there? Where are things you're working on? I can't imagine it's something that easily translates to things that listeners could improve on, but everyone could use some driving tips I would have to say. So when

you go to say you get in the lab and you really go work on your driving, what does that look like and what are you trying to improve? Well, it looks like I'm trying to raise my early extension from the, you know, from the hips. So try to really keep my angles really well because when I have my hips that's coming under you know under me That's where I have a lot of hand actually and with the speed that we hit now It's almost luck to arrive square into the ball So that's why I've been fading it a lot because I can you know relate on the shape but if there is a wind left to right and I need to draw it in I mean trouble so yeah

So I'm really trying to keep my angles really well. And I'm actually trying as well to keep a much lower shaft through impact, you know, because with the speed that we're putting in, the club wants to go really totally out of the line, you know, in front of you. And you cannot keep the square club anymore. So if you keep a low shaft, that's where the club is gonna come back really much more square. That could be interesting for people. So just do your normal swing, but just keep the shaft low through impact.

When you say the shaft low, do you just, do you mostly mean your hands are lower, like the angle between the angle between the shaft and the ground is lower? Yes. Yes. So, normally there is an angle between your forearms and your shaft in the posture, okay? And then with the speed that you give, that angle is going to almost disappear through impact.

So, if you can keep that angle, shaft and forearms from the posture to impact, normally you should improve your driving. And I believe that helps promote a fade as well then, right? That helps promote fairways. Fairways. I don't care which way. We just fairway. A couple more things here. We'll let you get out of here. But you dropped a wonderful F-bomb live on the air when you were with sky did you realize that at

all when you did that? I didn't expect that one okay I'm gonna be very clear with you I do not understand what's going on with TV and social media with how people speak okay I prefer to hear my daughter say fuck, okay? Then have fun of a gay or a racial person, you know? I think that everything is really getting too serious there, okay? You can say bad words, there's nothing wrong about that, you know? It's, I'm French, so maybe that's why I'm a... But I see people taking the piece for just a bad word, like if it's the end of the world. I've seen them Twitter But people getting crazy about it. Still maybe these guys are gonna be back to another person the same day

Just you know relax guys, okay? I hate all this I almost tweeted one thing two or three days ago It's good that you speak about that. I just cannot stand anymore what's going on with the image of sportsmen. I can, it's just, there is no more character. Luis Aniton is the best formula one player. It's awesome, okay? It's fantastic. It is such a great athlete, okay?

No problem. But if you look at his Instagram, okay? And you look at it, man, you're going to show like you terrible person. The image of the guy is so perfect. Okay. That can give you, you know, but thoughts about yourself. Just be normal guys.

That's why I love guys like Balesteros, Balesteros, Maradona, all these guys. I mean, there's nobody like this anymore. That's very true. I think that you know the bigger the more famous you get the more success as an athlete or anyone you have you're just expected to fall in line inside this perfect little box in this image that you know the agents are going to form you into and you know TV's going to want to try to form you into that TV and TV and sponsors and one the absolute perfect things because maybe of insurance or whatever and that's I just I just do not look sports anymore I just don't highly corporatized that's for sure so it's

always nice to hear some refreshing perspective from someone like yourself but I'm curious are you are you a game of thrones fan at all I was it until season eight did anybody does anybody ever tell you with your kind of the long hair long hair You've had going that you look like bra on Honestly, I'm so happy because he's one of my favorite characters, so I was so happy to see that Somebody somebody did that on Twitter during the pga I was working hard to try to figure out a bronze joke that would go in there But I couldn't really make it work, but That was definitely definitely one of the things that the lasting images I have in the PGA

All right, Mike. We're gonna let you go man. We have to do this again sometime This was fantastic insight really appreciate your time and perspective and hope we hope we cross pass sooner rather than later Sure, thank you very much, man. Take care. You bet. Cheers. Be the right club. Be the right club today. That is better than most. How about it? That is better than most. Better than most. How about in? That is better than most. Better than most.