No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 36: Amanda Balionis from Callaway Golf

Episode Date: May 1, 2016

Formerly of the PGA Tour, and now newly minted in the Callaway stable, Amanda Balionis joined me to talk about life working for the PGA Tour, what she’ll be doing at Callaway, and a bit... The post NLU Podcast, Episode 36: Amanda Balionis from Callaway Golf appeared first on No Laying Up. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yeah! That's better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most! Expect anything different! Ladies and gentlemen welcome back to a special edition of the No Lange podcast. Two podcasts this week. Do not expect this going forward, but we had to get to her before she got way too corporate. Now that she has made a big move from the PGA tour to Calaway. I'm of course speaking with Amanda Baleonis, Amanda, how is it does it feel to get out of

the wrath of John Swantek over at the PGA tour? I'm gonna say if you didn't consider me to corporate with five years at the tour I think I am good to go. But let's be honest here I have been begging you to be on this for the last year and I finally got you to cave. So that's the only reason why this double podcast is happening this week. I'm just glad you said it. I didn't have to say it because the only reason this is happening. But you're finally here. The microphone has been flipped on you. You are used to interviewing people. I'm not interviewing you. Don't get me wrong. I don't I don't I don't have the town. I don't have the skills you do to you.

But tell us a little bit for those that maybe you don't know who you are, what you were doing with the PGA tour and how it got you to where you are today. Yeah, so I was actually starting, I graduated from Hofstra, a home of Katie Nolan, the famous broadcaster that went to that school, and graduated from there in 2008, and then took a couple jobs in New York from Star with Verizon Channel 1, and then Mudo to MSG Network, the Mass and Spur Garden Network, and was doing sideline reporting there. Literally everything but golf. I mean, I was doing like high school boys wrestling, Ivy League, basketball, football, hockey,

girls, field hockey. I mean, you name it. And then 2011 came around and a mutual friend of John Swanaks and myself Noah Coslog put us in touch and Swant said, all right, why don't you head down to Florida in December and or maybe it's January and you know see if this job could be for you. And I'm like okay, you know, I grew up playing Junior Golf. My parents are golf fanatics, but I've never I was never really super into it, especially being in New York, you're just not around at a ton. I played bet page black a handful of times,

but other than that, just not really around the golf scene all that much since I moved out of the house. So I went down and I flew out of New York and there were about three feet of snow on the ground. It was freezing cold. I fly into Florida. It's 80 degrees in sunny. And I was like, you know, maybe this golf thing.

Maybe there's something to this golf thing. So when over and I was completely honest with everyone, I was like, listen, I know a ton about a lot of sports, but not a ton about golf. And they said, you know what, we can, if you really want to be committed to this, like we can help teach you and You know, I think this could be a great partnership and and it was, you know I kind of just threw myself completely into it and you know, I know I know now more about golf than I ever need to know

You know if you want to talk about you know PJ Tour China players Latino America tour players Any web dot comps players got you covered on all of those facets. So it's been, it was a really, really great five years we created some really fun shows of biomoligan trending on tour, the takeaway. So the last couple of years, PJTorps.com just evolved so much and it was really fun to be a part of that evolution. And then this crazy

opportunity came up with Calaway and you know just like it was a really great opportunity to move out of the freezing cold northeast down the Florida. Equally great opportunity to maybe check out what the West Coast has to offer in San Diego because every time I've been out there for a Tory for the farmers insurance it's been pretty perfect. So, that company of course, I mean, you know, you know, a Gaukauai. They're so forward thinking. They're so into just trying what people haven't tried before and just seeing if it works and that's 100% up my alley. So, I think it's going to be really fun to see the concepts that they

can come up with and, you know, just see where we can take it and see if the fans like it and so yeah it's just going to be onwards and upwards with new fun things. So your Harry Arnett's problem now instead of John Swan text but for the sake of this. I think Swan is probably laughing right now and Harry's probably texting him like so how exactly do I deal with this? I will say Harry already has me figured out because he sent me a picture of my French Bulldog Theresaau. He put a framed picture of her already on my desk. And I've already had multiple people tell me I can bring her in as the office mascot anytime I want.

So like my heart is already 100% with Cal away. We are under six minutes in recording before Theresa was mentioned. I had a little side bet with myself on that one. But for the sake of this, we're not going to talk about PGA Tour China players. I hope that's all right. Because I didn't know there was a PGA Tour China until you said that. But I do want to talk a little eventually about Callaway

But I'm more curious to learn a bit about how like the the daily What goes into the shows the daily what is it? Highlight shows every single after every round of the PGA tour like the the The timing of it, how do you come about the highlights? Who's writing the scripts?

Because I know when they're in Malaysia, you're working till four o'clock in the morning or something like that. So what is the rundown of an after, at the end of a day, Thursday through Sunday, look like for you? Yeah, it's interesting. I actually just did a thing with Mark Crossfield.

When I met him, he said, yeah, I watched your stuff. He was like, you're a really great presenter. Who writes all of that? I do. I write all of that. I don't know the kind of budget that you think we're working on with additional platform, but one person does the majority of it. How it kind of works is my job started right when the broadcast ended. So you come in, you watch the entire broadcast from start to finish,

and I'd be sitting in an edit room with my one editor, and we have another guy as well that kind of helps type up the headlines and descriptions of all the highlights you see on.com. And I'll tell them, you know, it clipped this off guys, you know, or clipped that announce, we're definitely going to want to use that. Anything funny that happens that maybe, you know, the average viewer is going to miss because they're sitting at work or they're just not able to be glued to their television for seven hours of coverage.

You know, we try and bring that into a really short recap every night that we call the take away. We try and bring that into a really short recap every night that we call the takeaway. So the broadcast, once the broadcast concludes, then I can write my script. And for the takeaway, which is a nightly show, the script can go depending on what happens and who the storyline is. The script can be anywhere from a minute 30 to, you know, you always try and keep it under four minutes. You know, so you write that and then we would go down and we'd shoot that in the studio on our green screen, which, you know, that part does not take a ton of time. Writing is, you know, 80% of that job and then presenting it is another 10 and then another

10 is obviously sitting there and producing it, making sure it goes together the way that you wrote it initially. And then after we put all the music on that and make sure that's good to go. And then if there's any other tours going on, like the web.com tour, PGA tour champions, all of that kind of stuff, the other six tours we have, we have shooters on site at all of those events and they will send us a shot sheet and then we go through those shot sheets and I'll pick the shots based off the leaderboard or the storylines and we'll put those together I'll do some research on the players make some notes and then we call all the highlights for that as

well so what makes it my longer is if you know say Latino America tour is three hours behind our time zone We still have to wait those three hours for those shots to come in because they obviously can't send that to us until plays over So, you know, it sometimes it's a killer Yes, sometimes they can be really late nights and then other times the stars align everything works out perfectly and and you're kind of in and out seamlessly but yeah, I would say the the most brutal time of year was when the PGA tour heads to the other side of the world and we're on Malaysia time for about three weeks. And that is you're just a vampire. There's just no way around it. You have a

whole new respect for nurses and doctors and people that work the overnight shifts because you're getting up at 9 o'clock at night, 10 o'clock at night, and you're not getting home until 8 o'clock or maybe 6 o'clock in the morning. So it's, yeah, that's really interesting. But the great thing about that is that you know people are watching those shows because everyone is asleep at those hours. Yeah.

I mean, stateside. So, you know, as much as it sucks to stay up like that, I am someone that needs 12 hours of sleep. I am a child, and I need those 12 hours of sleep. So I'm super dramatic about those nights. But it's great to know that you're actually bringing content to people that really haven't seen it. Because there's some tournaments like the Masters

or any of the majors, you know, there's some tournaments like the Masters or any of the majors, you know, you're pretty much just rehashing stuff that people have already seen, which there's, there's somebody to be said for that as well, but to be able to bring content to people that you know, they just really have no other way of seeing it in a condensed fashion. That was always pretty worthwhile. So you are, I'm like, I'm kind of a big fan of the fall series and like the extended extended PGA tour season you know some people complain it's too many events it's too much on the players I'm guessing with for these

events they've added in the offseason that make you do the late nights I'm missing you're probably not the biggest fan of the extended season. So here's the thing like this is what you people don't understand. You people. Still, yeah, you people, they still existed. Just knowing that about them. You know, it's like we still we still covered all of it. And it was just that because FedEx Cup points weren't applied because it wasn't part of the wraparound season, people just didn't really take notice of it. You know, so the minute the wraparound season started kicking in and all of a sudden we have players top 50 in the world participating in these events, our job went from being like, oh man,

no one's watching this, and now more people are watching this, which is great because we haven't do the work anyway. So yeah, I mean, it's not. For me, I don't mind the wraparound season at all. And for a couple reasons, one, because there's events existed. So it gives more value, not only to the title sponsor and all that stuff. But it does it gives more value to the season itself,

and it gives more opportunities for players that it's just so difficult to get in. You know, when you finish on a certain number in the web.com tour finals, it's really difficult to get into these events if you don't do well early in the season. So it gives these guys a whole nother platform basically to perform well under not so much pressure, you know, it's it. How it used to be previously was it players that didn't have great status, if they didn't do well in the West Coast swing, they really were not seeing any playtime until after the Florida swing.

I mean, really, when you think about the Florida swing, you're not getting into the Arnold Palmer invitation, there's derral, right? I mean, Honda is a pretty limited field as well So it's it's really tough for these guys to get into the fields you know Phoenix open before that They're not getting no one's getting into that field So now all of a sudden you have guys like Emiliano Grillo and smiley Kaufman who are winning early in the season And it's moving them to a different category which means players with blusher status get to move into you know spots that They necessarily maybe wouldn't have gotten into before so I think it was a necessary evil for life which means players with lesser status get to move into spots that they necessarily maybe wouldn't have gotten into before. So I think it was a necessary evil for lack of a better term so that guys that weren't getting into

the fields to compete, that had full status on the PGA tour, could then play as full PGA tour members. Yeah it's kind of almost like spring training with baseball except it counts except you know You're only gonna get maybe one of the top 10 players in each field each week Usually yeah those guys. I think Rory played did he play an event last year in the fall? I know he yeah, they were he was committed to play fries. That's right. Oh, but he did he ended up playing it I don't remember. Oh, he did he did play Yeah, Tiger was supposed to as well rain WD. Yeah, I did. A couple weeks before. So well.

But how often? How often when, like, so let's say you come up with something, how often, like does somebody look at it before, like a prove it before you go to film it? Like, how often did you come up with something and they're like, we can't do that. But that happens all the time. Yeah, I mean, that's the thing. It's such a fine line because we're really trying, the PGA tour especially right now is really trying to ramp up their digital content to keep up with

everyone else's right but there's also this still that fine line because they're still the PGA tour. They still represent the players and the sponsors and the brands so as much as you want to be edgy there's only as you can only take that so far and still protect everyone that you need to protect. Biomolage was a perfect example of this. I pitched it and was like, there is no way they let me do this segment. But 100% never going to happen. And I got a response back and it was like, okay, like give it a shot. And I was like, oh, all right, well let's do this.

So I did my very first one, actually had DJ Piawski come with me and read my questions ahead of time because I'm not even the most corporate minded person when it comes to content. Like I'm like this is cool and funny, we should do it and I need someone to be like stop running through walls. Let's think about this before we do it first. So DJ was always kind of my guy that I had censored me in every way to make sure it was going to be appropriate. And he looked at him and he was like, I think this is great, like give it a shot. So we did our first couple and it didn't have to be really sent for approval. And then I did, you know, it kind of started to pick up steam and we did a bi-emolican with, I forgot what player it was, but we were doing

a bunch of them over at Soggraster in the web.com tour championship. And I phrased the question like, this is a perfect example of how I just don't think through things entirely. I kind of need someone to help soften what I'm thinking. I asked who got the most drunk after the web.com tour heart ceremony. And I thought that was a great question. It is. It is. It is. And I got a great answer. So we said it out for approval and I get the call and it's like you can't know. I mean I can't ask that. Let's go what do you need? And they're like you can ask how the player answered if you want to answer but you got to ask in a different way and I was like huh okay I kind of I kind of see what you're

saying there so we had to go back and I reshoot it in a way where I said you know who had the most fun it was still the same answer so it worked out well but you know it's just stuff like that and there are obviously there are things there are going to be off limits to talk about just because that doesn't do anything for the PGA Tour brand to talk about it. You know, so I think everybody gets that. The most important thing is to protect the players, protect the sponsors that make these tournaments happen.

So you know, I think it'd be unfair to say, you know, nothing should be off limits. Like of course things should be off limits in that way. I mean, just like all of our jobs. But for the most part, I think it'd be unfair to say, you know, nothing should be off limits. Like, of course, things should be off limits in that way. I mean, just like all of our jobs. But for the most part, I mean, the tour has done a 180 on the content that they want to be out there. You know what I mean? I think they're much edgy or they're much more up to date and they're definitely reaching younger demographics with the change that has happened the last few years. Yeah, and that's why next question I wanted to ask you was like

because something yeah you're absolutely right and as far as the highlights they're posting like the gifts they're posting the vines and all this material and but like what's like what you just said though about protecting the players and you can't do this can't do that it surprises me like sometimes I think overall overall the tour definitely does a good job of protecting their players, but there'll be things where there's like a clip of somebody trying to hit a shot out of the water and flopping it and not even going out of the water,

splashing water all over their face. And it'll say like golf is hard. And I like, obviously people know that and people can watch this on TV, and it's not like these things are secret that they happen, but it surprises me a little bit when the tour, like we'll tweet that out or promote that. So like, did you ever have any things

that got through review and approved and were posted or anything, and you had players that did not react well to it or get phone calls from agents or anything like that. You don't have the name names. You don't have the name names. I think as long as it's kept to on course, news, stuff that happens, I think honestly players are fine with it because truthfully and I think you know this just from knowing a couple of the players like these guys can laugh at themselves

pretty quickly after a round. Like Justin Thomas, a perfect example. You know, I mean, he had that shot. I mean, what was he shanked the ball? I think and it went and hit somebody. And like, Justin was one of the first people to post the video and be like, if you want to know how to hit that shot, he's asked me. You know what I mean?

Yeah. These guys can make jokes about things that happen that happen on the course. And I think that's what makes the sport so great is that it's relatable to all of us at home. And like I think that golf is hard hashtag. It makes me laugh every time because it is hard. It's hard for the number one player in the world, just like it's hard for like Joe Schmell who's been playing for three years, halfing it up at his local course. So I think to see the pros be human in that way, I think it's phenomenal.

And I think players get that too. Like hey, yeah, we mess up. We can chunk a shot just like you can at home, even though we practice eight hours a day. It's not gonna happen as often, but when it does, fine. if you wanna laugh at it, like you can do that, I think where players, and rightfully so get upset is when it becomes

the off course stuff, the people wanna talk about or make fun of and stuff like that, and it's always that fine line, right? Well, you're public figures, so you of have to be able to take it but on the other hand it's golf and you know that I don't know I feel like having that integrity of things being off limits of not being able to if not talking about certain things as a gentleman's sport and all that kind of stuff starts to starts to come into play a little bit too so I know I don't think we've ever had players really be upset about high, you know, low

whites, I guess, that we would post like that, but I mean, I'm certain, certainly players don't love it when things are talked about, when it comes to them off the course, just like Roy McAroy, right? I mean, he learned his lesson with Caroline, and now we know nothing about his- Yeah, he did start a lesson. He did start a lesson. So a lesson learned, if you don't want it to be out there, don know nothing about his. Yeah, he did sort of have less of an engagement. So a lesson learned, if you don't want it to be out there, don't talk about it.

Well, that's very true. Let me let the record note that you were first to mention Justin Thomas on this podcast, just anyone out there. There's things we talk about him too much, but who was, so your biomulligan segment for those who haven't seen it where he would take a player and ask them five questions if they answered all of them They would get a t-shirt right big pride. I mean big time prize. I mean I Probably so where is my I never got a shirt by the way

But I have it for you. I have it for you. You need some of your address after this. Okay But what is who was your favorite after this. Okay. But what is, who was your favorite, uh, or two questions? Who was your favorite guest that you had? And also the most surprising that you were that you were like, wow, that guy's got a lot more personality than I thought. Oh my God. I think it's like they're both, I think the same answer. Yeah. Having Kismar. I thought that might be a dude blew me away. He put the show on the map. Like Like, the first one we did was with James Hawn, who is, to me, one of the most underrated players,

fan-wise of anyone on the PJ Trolley. People should love him. Like, James Hawn should have groupies, he should have people following him, and every tournament with matching t-shirts and hats on. Like, he is like the funniest, most down to earth, humble guy you'll ever meet. I really don't know why he's not. Why people haven't picked up on him as much. I thought maybe

after it went at the Northern Trust, everyone's going to get on the Jameson bandwagon. Has not happened yet, but fingers crossed, somewhere down the road it does. We did the first by-a-mall again with him him and he was hilarious as expected, right? And then Kevin Kizner coming off his second playoff loss, the second one coming at the player's championship, playing alongside Ricky Fowler, Sergio Garcia, and people are like, who is this guy? And he kind of has that Jason Duffner-esque component.

He's walking, he always looks like he has a dip in his mouth and I don't think he does I think that's just how it's mouth looks and he just like has no expression You know and you're like who is this guy? So we go to Wells Farger the week after players and I'm like all right Well, let's try and do a biomol again with this guy and I remember saying to my cameraman the best thing about this segment is It's not live. So if he has no personality No one will ever know this happened. Like perfect. We'll just leave it on the edit room floor. It doesn't matter. Sit down with them.

Very first question. What did you do after both of your playoff losses? He looks at me, he goes, Drake. I could see that. Is that a good answer? And I was like, this guy is the best. And his answer's got even better from there. And not only was he like so, he was so happy just to do something fun, which I thought was amazing, because a lot of guys will kind of shy away from that, especially after a huge playoff loss like that. But then he messaged me on Twitter.

And was like, hey, by the way, my wife's brother, my brother-in-law, has a t-shirt company in Sea Island and he will totally hook you up and make these t-shirts for you because I want one. And I was like, are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? Is that where the idea came for giving off the t-shirts or were you already doing that? No, I had no, I hadn't had the t-shirts made yet.

That's what I said to him in the segment. I'm like, you are going to get a t-shirt, I don't have them yet. I don't had the t-shirts made yet. And that's what I said to him in the segment. I'm like, you are gonna get a t-shirt. I don't have them yet. I don't know how to make them. And he was like, message is me. It's like, I want this t-shirt. And my brother-law is gonna make them for you. And I was like, you are just a great human.

Like, he's hilarious. And he is just, every time I've seen him after that, just, hey Amanda, how are you? Like, you know, he just blew me away with how great of a personality he has, even though it doesn't show at all on the golf course. So I mean, he was great. France Netacre was great too though. His story about biting off the quail head was like hands down the most shocking story

I've ever heard. Well, you got to assume that not everyone listen to this has heard this story. So you got to tell the story. You've given that you've given away the the climax of it. I'm pretty sure I mean it doesn't even matter I even if you already know it but the head off the story is I have your jaw on the floor One of the best things that's happened like through this segment is I get to ask You know, I I feel it's such a and rapport with, you know, players and caddies and agents and, you know, and their friends on tour, you know, the work and media that I'm

able to kind of get some dirt on these guys before I interview them. So Ned Michaels, who, you know, obviously does some work with PGA Tour Live and stuff like that, I messaged him as he played on the same team as Brandt Snetaker at Vandy and they hunt together. And I was like, Ned, do you have any dirt for me on Snet? And he was like, you know what I do? He's like, I'm not going to tell you what happens. Just ask him about what the tradition is going quail hunting. And I was like, has Ned ever watched this segment before? Because that sounds super boring. but whatever, I'll ask them. So, we get into the show and I say to Snettaker, like, I hear this great tradition of hunting with your friends.

He's like, yeah, yeah, I do. I'm like, quail hunting. And his face just goes pale. And he's like, oh boy. And I'm like, oh, this is actually, this may be good. And I said, you know, well, why don't you tell me what that tradition is? And he shakes his head and goes, I can't believe he told you this. And the thing was, was Ned didn't tell me this because he thought he was good by his Mulligan.

So he was like, I'm not even going to tell you what happened. So, but Snettaker thinks he thinks I already know. So he's like, I guess I'm just going to tell you on camera. And he tells the story of how his friends convinced him like Ozzy Osborne style to bite the head off of quail's head Because that's a tradition when you kill your first quail So he's like, yes, like so I bit the head off and as I'm biting it off my friends are like, oh my god I can't believe you did that That's not a tradition at all

You like spit the quail head out brand FedEx cupup with her brand sennager. Like what? He like described how crunchy it was and it was the most horrifying like 30 to 45 seconds of my entire life. And I it was so awkward. I didn't know where to go from there because I couldn't get the mental image out of my head. But I'm busted right now because I made you think that I watched all of those and I definitely didn't see that one because I did not know that story. I mean, first of all, rude.

I know. What kind of prep is that before a pop cast? You should absolutely go back right now and watch all the Bible again. I should have done my homework. But so yeah, so we've had some surprising things happen on that show and uh, I think the only the only one that was hilarious was Daniel Berger We did one with him and uh, one of his fellow Tor players told me to ask him how he met his girlfriend and he bought his ball again So none of us will know how they met

There's got you have to know you have to know the story though at this but I know you won't tell it now But do you know the story? I do know the story. Oh, yeah, he's just what it told us. Have you have to know you have to know the story though at this But I know you won't tell it now, but do you know the story? I do know the story Yeah, he's just what it told us if you would have told us it's not nearly as bad as everybody like Makes the story up to be now in their own heads. Is it like how much can you say about it? Is it like internet dating or something or something of some kind? Let's get yeah It's along the lines of something every male in his 20s has done. Oh, wow. That's leaving it wide open.

That's not helping at all. I don't know how you go a lot of different ways with that. By the way, I should have mentioned that it was Taylor Farrell that asked the question about the favorite by a Mulligan answer on Twitter Thank you for the question Taylor. I didn't mean to sell you out there, but Um, thanks for watching. I bet Taylor watched all the segments. Taylor probably did she was she was ready She was she was ready with that question, so I'm like digging myself a hole right now. I still get the t-shirt, right? Maybe we'll talk about it later

All right, so well you kind of already answered it because I wanted to know like what, what underrated personalities you've come across, you know, as a part of your role with the tour. And I think you touched on it about, you mentioned Justin Thomas. I feel like those guys... I actually never said Justin Thomas was underrated. No, no, no. I wanted to say related to Justin Thomas is I feel like those guys that haven't

aren't fully exposed to the full media, I guess, attention at this point are very anxious to do, like, podcasts or random stuff to, I'm not saying it's to get attention, but they're just not as guarded. They're willing to let people kind of see their personality, they're willing to share their opinions. They know that what they say isn't gonna be like, scrutinized the same way,

what's something that Rory or Jordan Speet says. Like, it's not like Jordan Speet probably wouldn't be the best guest on Biomulligan because that guy knows his way around the media and knows how to answer questions and whatnot. But yeah, so like, who, you've already given some good names, but who, like the James Hans story, that's fantastic. I want to hear these people that I don't know about because I think a lot of people,

the people you become fans of and golf are based off such small little things. Like, basically, their mannerisms on TV or how you decide whether or not you like a player, which is, you know, probably unfair. I mean, I'm sure there's guys out there that I just don't like that are awesome. Like, I make fun of Zach Johnson a lot, and DJ always gets all over me. Like, DJ is the man. Like, I'm sure he is. I don't hear it.

Okay, I don't want to hear it. And he is. I mean, Zach Johnson is one of the kindest people. You're not hoping. I know. It's so gracious with this time and all of a sudden, like, you know, I don't know. I, for you, I feel like you need like an edge of your guide in Zach Johnson.

Like, Zach Johnson's not gonna be your guide because he's not edge of your stuff. Yeah. Like, I think James Han could totally be your dude. We should start James Han fan club. Can we just do that? Is that a thing? I mean, if you've got a connection, then I can give me, put me in touch.

So tap them on the podcast. Let's give them a chance. You know about him, right? Like, of course. Yeah, of course. She's salesman, like, wrote, like, after his first win, wrote this incredible letter to himself on the Tribune, on the Tribune, Geter's website. Yeah, yeah. And did you ever, did you read that? I bet you didn't even read that. Probably not. Come on. I got other things going on.

But he was writing how he went out and got absolutely hammered to celebrate his first win. And then his baby daughter was born the next day. He was so hung over the entire day. Like in the delivery room. And it was like the letter to yourself do not get completely hammered the night before your daughter's born even if it's a celebrated PGA tour when it's just heath hilarious. I'm trying to think of other just branding grace. I mean we don't see him a ton but he's a fabulous, fabulous personality, you know, in person out there easy, easy to root for. I don't't know give me some of that Emiliano Grillo. Yeah, I can like he's a great guy to root for One of those young guns that I think he could really do a lot for the game

I always refer Johnny Vegas. I know he's been riddled with injuries and kind of fell off after Becoming the first vent as well into Winnipegator event, but he's fun to watch on the course when he's playing well. Does Grillo, does he speak pretty good English? He does. He does, okay. Yeah, I just, I don't know if we don't hear it from him.

Yeah, I remember watching him and he was speaking Spanish with his caddy. So I just was, so he's not like on hell Cabrera who's been, you know, been here for 20 years and still does his interviews in Spanish. But the funny thing about that is that he chooses to do his Spanish.

I know, he can definitely speak English. He definitely speaks English, it's hilarious. I kind of understand that. I think I have no bigot of a great one now, I think. I think he's a good one. I mean, you've seen him on TV, right? He's hilarious to watch on the course. Yeah, I don't know why.

It's really random, like the group, I've, who I follow on Instagram, like from the No-Lang Up account. It's just a really random group of 69 people. That's all I know, it's all I know about it. And he's one of them. And I have no idea why I've never adjusted it. I don't know when we created that account

or when we started following people, but he's one of them. And I have no idea why. I probably don't even follow Jordan's beef, but I follow Johnny Vegas on Instagram, but that's... Oh, you definitely follow your crush, Jordan's beef. I don't know. I really don't know if I do.

I don't know. Debbie did most big time thing ever. He follows you and you don't follow him back. I don't know if he follows me. I follow him on Twitter. He doesn't get the follow back? I follow him on Twitter. I don't know about Instagram. I don't know if he follows me. I follow him on Twitter. I don't know about Instagram. I don't think he follows the no-bang up Instagram. But that's the thing is ever since he followed us on Twitter, it's so like people are all over me for being just the biggest

speed fanboy, which I accept that. That's fine. But I find it so hard to be I can't say anything negative about anyone that follows me. I can't bring myself to do it. Oh my, so objectivity is out. Oh, let's be honest. I never have claimed to be objective. Okay. Never not once that I ever claim to be objective. But people get on me for that too. Like clearly you're showing your bias here. You don't care for bubble lots. And like, oh really? I don't. Thank you for this observation. This is not straight up journalism this is not how you

reporting right thank you thank you for following along seriously but wait you have never had prom being mean to me and you follow me on Twitter so yeah I'm not as afraid of you that's so real I feel like I can be very intimidating I mean not really I mean you basically you've taught me how to I feel like I can be very intimidating. I mean, not really. I mean, you basically, you've taught me how to make hard boiled eggs. Like, you help me with my recipes. You're not that intimidating.

I'm sorry, it's not like a really strong... You can't do it to self. You cannot be Betty Homeger and still be intimidated. Yes. Unfortunately, that is the case. All right, well on top of that, all of your experience with PGA Tour, can you give us an idea of what to expect

what you'll be doing with Callaway? And I think there's a recent Callaway winner that you may have mentioned to me is kind of also in that category I've really underrated and funny guys to talk to. Yeah, Callaway, this position is going to be really interesting because they just created it. So the official title is Media Correspondent,

but we'll be doing a lot of different things on a lot of different platforms. For instance, we just launched our very first series XM show, so Calaway Live on Series XM, which I'll be hosting once a month, which will be great. So it'll kind of be the best of the best the Callaway Live on serious exam, which I'll be hosting once a month, which will be great. So it'll kind of be the best of the best from our Callaway Live guests. And also a little bit beyond.

So for instance, this past week, we featured Adam Levine when he was on Callaway Live, which was tremendous. Phil Mickelson, bones from the interview I just recently did with him at Augusta in the Callaway Golf Truck, and also Tom Watson. So you know a great kind of array of guests, players, musicians, that kind of stuff. So we'll be doing that once a month. I'll be doing some player interviews as well as maybe you know other caddy interviews, stuff like that that comes up and we did a tremendous sit down with bones that was completely impromptu the last of about 20 minutes and he gave some really really great stories and insight about how he and Phil work and kind of the funny inner

workings of their relationship that people may not know about so I'll be doing stuff like that. And then probably working with Dude Perfect a little bit, the Brian brother's a little bit doing stuff with Hank Hayney. And then of course you know Caloay is involved with Topgolf. So we'll be covering the launches of Topgolf in Las Vegas, maybe doing some media for them as well. And a bunch of other things like that. So we'll be, oh and then obviously hosting the Caloay live segments, the Caloay live Minute stuff like that for the website. So we're kind of gonna be everywhere,

but that's the fun thing about it, is that it'll be different kind of every day. And then there'll be some travel worked into there too. We know we'll be shooting in Pittsburgh, mild stomping grounds for the US Open, and we'll also be back at the players championship. So can I even call these old stomping grounds yet? Since I'm not even out of here,

but they'll be old stomping grounds three weeks from now. And yeah, so we don't stuff like that, but at the masters, after we talked to bones, all that stuff happened, yeah, I guess we won. Callaway guy, Danny Willett. And I like him for kind of a couple reasons. Reason one, he has a pug very close to the French Bulldog family when, and like that's

their, I know they have a human child now, but the last like, he be years, has been their only child, and they treated this dog like their child, which I loved, everything about that. You can go into that. Very cool. Dog lover has a cool dog. And also I interviewed him a couple times last year at St. Andrews during the Open Championship. And I was, this is well before Kelly was ever on my radar and

just talking to him, I was blown away by his confidence. It wasn't a smug confidence at all. He was just so calm, cool and collected while being in the mix at a major. You know, and for a young guy that the very few of us stayed side that had ever heard of, I was just so impressed by how confident he was in himself and in his playing and his preparation. And I remember saying, I remember walking away after interviewing him on Saturday at San Andreas

and just being like, this kid may win the open. And you don't walk away from many young players like that who are in contention and they're in a major for the first time saying that. And I really thought about that when he got into the second nine on Sunday, I remember saying a bunch of people over for a master's party, and I remember saying, this guy isn't the kind of guy who's going to buckle under this pressure. He's just going to be locked in and confident, and everyone's like, whatever, shut up, don't know anything. You're analyzing it at a party, trying to break it down. I maybe the worst person to watch golf with, because it's so... Yeah, analyzing what's going to

happen, everyone's like, we don't care what you think. Let get so into like the, yeah, yeah, analyzing what's gonna happen. I was like, we don't care what you think. Like let Jim Dance talk, like you shut up and have another beer. So I'm like telling them how I think like Danny Will it's gonna do it. I'm texting Harry Arnett and Jeff Newborn. Like guys, we got to get his Pug on Callaway Live.

Like let's make this happen. He's gonna be the master's winner. You went straight for the Pug. Well, I'm straight for the Pug. I was like, this would be the greatest segment of the good. Like, a little green jacket for the dog. It's gonna be awesome. And they're like, you're jinxing it.

This is never gonna happen now. You ruined it. And then daddy will at wins. I'm like, nobody listens to me, but I told you so. I'm bringing the good luck already. Will that? I'm telling you. That at least warms my heart a little bit

that he's likeable guy and that you like him because obviously I was pretty upset with you know, speed blowing it. But I wanted to ask you, you were at the Masters for what were you doing down there this year? I was, I was only there early week. But we did some really fun things. We actually filmed a cocktail party at the Calaway House, which was pretty fun. So we did a big, just cocktail party

that we're guests everywhere, and then I sat down with a bunch of people for like quick one-on-one interviews. So we did Crossfield, who I mentioned earlier. We sat down with Jeff Schackleford with Joe House. By the way, do you know who Joe House is? I obviously listened to Shack House, and I listened to him on Bill Simmons podcast for a long time. I don you know who Joe House is? I obviously listen to Shack House and I listen to him on Bill Simmons podcast for a long time.

I don't know who he is. I don't know who he is. I don't know who he is. I don't know who he is. I don't know who he is. I don't know who he is. I don't know who he is. I don't know who he is.

I don't know who he is. I don't know who he is. I don't know who he is. I don't know who he is. I don't know who he is. I don't know who he is. I don't know who he is. I don't know who he is.

I don't know who he is. I don't know who he is. I don't know who he is. I don't know who he is. I can't even tell you. He's got such a cool. I love their podcast. It's off to a really good start. I know it's Callaway sponsored as well, but I think it's a really good mix. I enjoy Shackleford's take on the game and Joe House brings a nice mix to it as well. It's a different podcast and it's as soon as it goes up, I listen to it every week. I'm pretty excited about it so far. Yeah, I mean, they're a great team, because like you said, they're different, so it's pretty unexpected, but it's phenomenal. And of course, they have that Bill Simmons tie.

So Simmons comes on and just talks whatever you, you know, whatever he wants to talk about. But yeah, they were really, really fun to work with all week. And then who else did we say, oh, we sat down with the girl that caddy for Tom Watson in the part three contest. Claire, I think her name was Claire. I hope I'm not messing that up. Memorable, huh?

She was. She was, she was fabulous. But it was funny. She looked so young. And that's how I know I'm getting so old because I looked at her and was like, oh, what's your golf program you play in? And she was like, I'm a captain of my senior. I'm a senior, I'm a captain of my golf team in high school. And I was like, okay, I'm sorry. That has nothing to do with you. I'm just ancient. Like, that's cool, my fault.

But so, you know, you got to talk to some cool people like that about their experiences at Augusta, how that tournament has impacted their relationship with the game of golf. And, you know, it was a really, really fun night. So, we did that, and then we did a bunch of player interviews, got to interview Pierre Deschappi Barnarat, who I've always wanted to interview. He was tremendous. His dad flew 24 hours to come watch him play in his first masters Wow, you're warming your warming Niels Hart the no are no laying up brother Niel is big happy

Bobby Bonrat fan you're warming it was not an happy partner I'm not saying I'm not I'm just yeah, so that was really great and he's hilarious and Asked us to kind of give him, you know, give us like his best memories. Of course he gives a bunch of these Phil Nicholson Augusta memories and we asked him to give us like his best jumping celebration. You know, I love Phil Nicholson and it was as funny as you thought it would be. Like go on there and watch it.

It was great. It was magical. It's so many levels and yeah. So we, like I mentioned, we did the whole bone sit down who just gave us the best stories about the veto that he gets. Oh yeah that's I I would love I would do anything to sit down with bones and well I think it was Adam Sarson made the joke on Twitter is why didn't uh why didn't bones use his veto for that for the year for that outfit on Friday that Phil had on? I mean because he has to use it wisely. Did you hear the two times he's wanted to use that veto?

I mean one was because Phil was convinced in New Orleans that he was going to get out of trouble by skipping the ball three times over the water. It's going gonna hit the bunker and roll up onto the green. And bones was like, no. No. No. Like, no. I mean, those are the kind of insane ideas that Hollin's favorite film that he'll say comes up with. And bones has to sit there and try to convince him to do something else. There's a clip I think, Brinnett Poorat grabbed once of, it was, Phil, I forget what tournament it was, Phil Klaus. I think I like the driver here, what do you think? And then the vine runs out because bones just

stands there and doesn't say a word. But like he didn't want to use his veto, so he just gave his answer by not saying anything. I mean, it's like, he bones his part in his head, like how do I talk this crazy man? He was, who is this person? Yeah, like and that was the funniest thing and he said the second Vito was he tried to use it in your field Be full well in 2000 was that 2002 Last time it was there before before the last time it was a mere field in 2011 It was there in 13 and it was there in two I think you're right And

Phil was in this bunker you know how deep those bunkers are over in Scotland right and he Wanted to get on his knees and hit this shot out of the bunker on his knees And and bones is like veto And bones is like Vito. And Bill looks at him and he goes, you cannot use your Vito. And bones go, I absolutely can use my Vito. I have not used it this year and I get one. And he goes, the Vito is only good in domestic use. And bones was like, we proceeded to get into the most heated argument.

And if they is like, this sounds like satire, right? He's telling me this story, and I'm like, this just sounds like one huge onion article. And he was like, in their dead serious, like they are so heated about it that they started arguing about who was the commissioner of the veto. And the bones was like, to this day,

Phil thinks that he's the commissioner of the veto, and I have a huge problem with that. And he's like, visibly upset over it. Like it's not a joke. Like we all crack up, but it's real life for them. It is just my blowing. Stories he was telling were my blowing. It would surprise me if Phil would just do something ridiculous early on in the year and

make him use it up. And that way he's got nothing left for the rest of the year. Rekas Phil has to know every time he like whips out some ridiculous idea. The bones, that could be the time he pulls the beetle off his feet. So are you going to Scotland this year? I would love to be going to World Trune. I think we are still trying to figure that out. It is right now 50-50 possibility. All right, Harry, if you're listening, I think Amanda wants to go.

I always want to go. I literally eat fish and chips three times a day, every day, for a week. I am gross, and I love it. All right, I have a question for you. Let's say you were still with the PGA tour. I know PGA tour doesn't run the masters, but let's say you were still with the PGA tour. I know PGA tour doesn't run the masters, but let's say you are in your role as interviewer and you are, let's say you're working for CVS, all right? And Jordan's speed comes off the 18th green after what happened

this past Sunday. What's the first question you ask him in Butler cabin? Oh, God. Not what kind of card you drove? Yeah, okay. That's a good start. Still a little with your parents, Jordan? Yeah, right, how's that going for you, buddy? First question you asked Jordan's fees in Butler cabin after that meltdown. I thought about, if it helps you at all, I thought about this question for like a couple of minutes, like at one point today, and I have absolutely nothing.

I have nothing. I think the only question, because here's the thing, there's no good question, right? There's no good question, because he has not been able to process it yet. No. That's just what it is. He hasn't been able to process it, and I think the question has to be, how do you process what just happened? How do you process what just happened? How do you, how do you process what just happened? I think period.

Yeah. Right? I didn't want to take it from there. Here's what you don't ask. And that's, well, you can be disappointed from about this because that's what pop McAtee asked him. And then which I get, I don't want to get on Bob too much of that because like I said, I don't know what you say in that situation.

Yeah, how do you process it? I mean, I think you got to know that the answer to that is going to be like, I don't want to get on Bob too much of that because like I said that I don't know what you say in that situation Yeah, how do you process it? I mean, I think you got to know that the answer that is gonna be like I don't I don't know I don't have an answer yet, you know, right? But the thing with Jordan is is hey there are certain players that you know are pretty cerebral and they're gonna Theresa stop it Theresa wants to get on the podcast The thing about Jordan is is is he and Jason Deer are kind of similar in the way that, and they're, they're a handful of other guys too, that will think about things as they're talking about it with you, right? So I could see, if

you leave it so open-ended, you know, you don't need to put an adjective on it, you don't need to tell him that he's feeling disappointed or he's feeling a certain way. Like, we all can understand how horrible he's feeling, but for you to just leave it open and then did and just say, listen, how do you, what's going through your mind right now? And let him kind of just talk his way exactly what he's thinking. Like, I think that probably, either it's gonna be a terrible answer, right?

But you're gonna get a terrible answer anyway. Or it could have turned into something pretty cool where he kind of just talks through it almost the way Rory McAroy did after his meltdown to Masters. I mean, do you remember how he just kind of, he talked way more than any of us expected himself? Yeah, I think that meltdown,

I think, I don't, again, I don't know, even how I can substantiate the statement, but I feel like Rory's meltdown would be easier to handle because of how gradual it was. I mean, it kind of exploded there on 10, but he had already, I think, lost the lead by 10, or he was maybe tied for the lead or only up by one at that point. And then he faded from it very, very quickly. Speed was like, it was a five-shot lead on the back nine, like it was

decided. It should have been decided. And just to losing that fashion, I just I don't know how you, if you're as friend or as family, I don't know what you say to him other, I don't know. I just it's, I think, I don't think you say anything. Yeah. You know, I think you just kind of let him process it the way he's going to and talk about when he's ready. Like, maybe it's a different situation between he and Michael. You know, he and Michael Gruller probably do have to talk about it. You know, Michael Gruller probably feels like he has to talk to Jordan about it.

But I think if you're like on the outskirts of, if you're outside of that on-course relationship, like, you would just think like, there's nothing you can say that's gonna make it better, right? So why say anything other than like like what do you want to drink? I think I was I was worried about what How he would bounce back from it and after I've recovered from a couple days So I'm confident that he can do

No, I just I feel like anytime that this guy faces any kind of adversity, he comes back in a way that just kind of supersedes what you think a human would be capable of. And I think he's smart enough to know that he can't sit and sulk about it. I'm not saying he is. I have no idea what he's been up to these last few days. But I remember when Kyle Stanley had his meltdown on the 18th green 72nd hole at Tory Pines in 2012. Yeah, I mean, it was just- It was gonna be next the next week.

Yeah, it was heartbroken and he was crying and he went on the cry and he said he did. And he's like, thank God I had a tournament to play the next week. I needed to play, I needed to get out there and he's like, being out there was just therapeutic. Like, I wasn't, you know, I wasn't reading social media, I wasn't talking to anyone, I was just able to play golf and my mind was just therapeutic. I wasn't reading social media, wasn't talking to anyone, I was just able to play golf and my mind was actually clear. So, I don't, do you know when he comes back, what is his next event? I don't know when his next event is, and that's the, that's a difficult thing with Jordan because even, you know, obviously prior to the Masters, what was the big talk with him? He's completely overextended himself this season, right? That he's tired, he's emotionally drained, you know,

and who wouldn't be after traveling the world, you know, in playing as much as he was in all the demands that come with being Jordan's feet now, right? Because it's not the playing in the tournaments that's exhausting. I think people misunderstand that. I think people are like, oh, please, like I would go and play at all these places, you know,

for free and he's getting paid millions of do it. That's not what's exhausting, what's exhausting are the demands on you and around you outside of, you know, outside of the ropes. And I think that's the biggest challenge, especially the standards that Jordan is held to, you know, the kind of person he is. And I'm sure the way he feels like he has to act and treat people, even when he's having a bad day.

You know, I think that always on someone, especially as young as he is, and it clearly is nice, and as good of a person as he is, I think he probably holds himself even higher standards than everybody else does. So, I mean, that came into play well before the masters, and now something truly emotionally draining has happened for him, you know, inside the ropes, and I don't know what that answer is. But, I mean, you, I don't think any of us doubt the fact that Speed is going to come back better than ever, because he is a guy that you feel like when he has a chip

on his shoulder, he feels like he hasn't performed to the best of his abilities, he comes back and wants to prove himself, you know, prove to himself that he can do it. I don't even think it's for anybody else. I think it's for himself. But we were talking about that earlier this week. I mean, remember after he won the Masters last year and then he won to the RBC Heritage after. And what he, I think he shot over par in his first round right he was in he was in danger of missing the cut and he just won the masters and was furious at himself for playing poor golf. This first round back and came back and I mean what do you see like 63 or something in the second round? I think you were like 74-62 or

something like that. It was insane. What he did and like all he needed was like that little bit of motivation. I'm playing poor golf for one round. Like, imagine what this is going to do, you know? Yeah. No, I think I don't, I think he understands that something broke down in the process that in those three holes where it really slipped away. And he seems to me like the kind of guy that's going to turn around and react

to that situation totally with him, come back with a prepared mind rather than a damaged mind. He's not going to be like, man, remember what happened the last time I had this? He's going to be like, remember what happened last time? You lost your focus a little bit, like you sped up, you didn't commit to this shot blah, blah, blah. Let's commit, let's go execute this shot right now. So I don't, yeah, again, I know I'm anything

to validate or substantiate that, but that's just, that's my estimation as to what we'll see from him. So our guess is that George B. is still gonna be awesome when he comes back. We are bold, we are very bold with this call. This is the, you're only gonna find that here, no laying a podcast, you hear that?

I think the kids these days call it hot tape. I think they do, I think they do. I have a question, I think the kids these days call it hot tape. I think they do. I think they do. I have a question. I didn't receive as many good questions as I'm used to hearing. I think people were intimidated by the Baleonis factor, but Sarah Indicott, friend of the podcast, always sends long great questions. She says none of her girlfriends can understand her Jordan Rory excitement on Saturday. How can she explain it to them? That's a great question. How would you explain? If you have a group of roomful of people who don't care about golf.

How do you explain that to well all right is she asking this from like a girl crush on these guys or in like golf crush what do you think? I don't know but I refuse to go like with the low hanging fruit right now and be like you know it's like two cute boys playing sports that are really good but that's not gonna fly So how do we make them care about these two I don't I think I think you got to go for the Rory angle you got at least sight the previous sight the The he formerly dated a the number one tennis player in the world, right? The celeb watch right you want to know about their cute you want to for girl for somebody that's not paying attention to golf

You want to like that's kind of an interesting backstory about Rory wouldn't it be? I don't know I mean I I'm maybe I'm a bad person to ask about this sorry Sarah I don't think I'm very much help I would go the route of like Rory used to be like the convincing world number one and then he was stupid and broke his ankle, doing it playing soccer, and had a mess like the majority of the season, and then Jordan's speed came in and was like, fine, if you're gonna underperform and be out,

then I'm going to take over your number one spot, and now they are super enemies, like in some sort of superhero movie. From a golf angle, I'm with you on that. The way she asked it, I'm thinking her friends don't follow Goffers. I think her friends know who's feet and Rory are if they do follow golf I could be wrong and be be very be very inappropriate right now So maybe I'll just cut this I will Sarah do us a favor take half of your group of friends and give them my

Superhero angle and then give Give the other half Chris's response and let me know who was more successful in this feed. I think I'm going to lose this battle. I think this one's over. Fingers across. I'm giving these women way more. All right, so it's actually you're giving that. It's execute that so poorly. We're going to end this because I'm now officially embarrassed and I know you have to wait by the way. I think that was a nice way of telling you no one cared about me being on this podcast and nobody sent you questions. That was not what I meant. Um, I meant. I had a guy last night and an event called me Heather Balliones and I was like, oh, I need, I need to be better.

Well, to be honest, I got some questions that were inappropriate that I can't actually say out loud. So that was more of the reason I had to filter through those. I'm not saying we didn't get questions, but I don't think we want to discuss some of the ones that were asked. So that whole female thing, you know? Yeah, it's okay. I have one, then. I want to know what your favorite comment you ever read on any of your PJ tour videos,

Instagram, tweets, or anything like that ever was. Oh, God. I get good ones. Okay. So here's like my dirty little secret. And people are horrified when I get good ones. Okay so here's like my dirty little secret and people are horrified when I tell them this but sometimes when I am like home alone at night I will go get a bottle of wine. No. And I will drink a bottle of wine while reading through all of my comments.

Oh no. On YouTube and Facebook. Yes and then I screen grab them and send them on group chats to my girlfriends and let them on group chats to my girlfriends and let them just like make me feel so much better while I laugh and like try to think of like really witty responses. But I think, I've gotten some gems in the last five years. To be honest, it's a hobby of mine as well because I laugh every single time because it's so funny. It's probably 70, 30, positive, and negative, but it's funny, but people won't make the same comment

like on your post as they would the PJ Tour one. That doesn't have your name in it, right? Oh, yeah. Yes, actually I did, though, the other day, I commented on my personal Instagram account, right? It was just public so it's fine But I just cracked me up. It was on mine. It was on the tours or anything like that. It was my I forget if it was my Yeah, it was my goodbye post So like hey guys like I'm leaving the tour whatever and it was just like so much support like I was blown away by it

Like it was it was so great and then there's this one guy and he's like, God, there's something like good riddance. Like, he is so annoying with her fake accent or fake, you know, her voice, basically saying, I try and put on a fake accent and my voice goes up and fluctuates too much and it was really annoying to him and he just couldn't deal with it anymore.

You know what, I'm actually kind of jealous of that guy's life if that's like something that he cares about. If that's something that he cares about, he must have everything else perfect in his life. Or the complete opposite. Well, and he also tagged it with the fact that I have no bite. And I was like, first of all, is that in the videos?

Well, right, like, I am only ever facing forward, sir. And second of all, what does that a thing to do with my camera presentation of this information? So that guy just had all of his bases covered. He was like, Oh, you are laughing at the fact that I don't like your voice. How about the fact that I also don't like your butt that I've never seen. All right. See, hear that DJ Piaoski stop posting on Amanda's social media post. I try to tell me it doesn't listen. All right, I'll let you out of here.

You've given me an hour of your time. I know you've got yoga and a dog that probably needs to take it out back there. But thank you so much for your time. I look forward to seeing what you have going with Calloway. It sounds pretty exciting. It sounded like the greatest job ever when you gave the full description. I didn't get a chance to say that earlier. But congratulations on the new gig, best of luck with that, and I'm sure we'll be seeing

a lot of you and hearing from you. Thank you, I hope so, and maybe this time next year? Maybe, maybe, and maybe like in the next like year and a half, you can get back on the project. There we go. It's 15, 14 and a half months scheduled for my return to the US, so we'll see. Alright, sounds good. Well, thanks for having me finally. You bet. Thanks Amanda. Everything hoped it would be. Alright, take care. It's gonna be the right club.

Be the right club today. Yes! That is better than most. That is better than most. Better than most. you