No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 363: Oregon Trip Recap, Part II

Episode Date: October 6, 2020

Part 2 of the Tourist Sauce, Season Six: Oregon podcast episode. We recap our experiences at Bandon Trails, Bandon Dunes (10:45), Bandon Crossings (27:45), Tetherow (39:00), and Silvies Valley Ranch (53:30). Catch the premiere tonight (Oct 6) on the NLU YouTube channel! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yes! That is better than most. I'm not in. That is better than most. Better than most! Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No-Lang Up Podcast. Tonight is the night we have made it. It is Tuesday, October 6, which means the season 6 debut of Taurusos, Oregon, proudly presented by our friends at Precision Pro Golf,

is debuting tonight on our YouTube channel You might already be it might already be out by the time you're listening to this. This isn't necessarily the most timely episode Hopefully you can listen to this Oregon golf trip Extravaganza podcast or parts one and two whenever you're planning a trip or if you need some inspiration for planning a trip But if you don't know about Precision Pro Golf are makers of premium laser range fighters that help golfers swing with confidence and hit more green. So throughout the season of Tora sauce, we're going to guide you across the Beaver State show you the beauty and the history that is Oregon golf low key, one of the greatest golf states in the entire Tire United States. Without giving too much away, it is a hell of a season. It's not one you're going to want to miss. Well, I'll give him too much of a way. It is a hell of a season.

It's not one you're going to want to miss. On every course throughout the great state of Oregon, it was the precision pro NX9 slope range fighter that guided us to the green. You got to get your hands on one of these. You'll see how crystal clear the picture is through the scope. It's very, what's the word, satisfying, weirdly satisfying, the vibration, the magnetic clip on the side of your cart.

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with precision pro golf. Cheers. All right, from sheep ranch, we went to Bannon trails that afternoon. T.C. take us there. Trails is I loved it the first time we were out there. And then this time I loved it even more. It's incredible.

The kind of eases the end. The first, you know, it will A, it starts with the clubhouse, you know, up there. I was a little bit nervous about playing it. We were in there in August and a little bit nervous about playing it. We were in there in August and a little bit nervous about playing it in the afternoon. It does get hot up there and you're kind of set apart from the ocean, but I still contend it's the best golf course at bandin. I would coast on that. It's not the best, maybe not the most spectacular setting for golf because it's in the forest and up on the hill versus. Which is still a really dope cool setting. I actually prefer that.

And then, you know, like I would say, my ideal day would be what we did. We could go play cheap ranch in the morning in trails in the afternoon. Yep. Yeah, it is the perfect variety. Like we were saying, like I don't need another coastal course there. It is a part, it's what makes, band trails is what makes ranking courses at band and super hard

because it's really difficult to pigeon it in somewhere. Between some of the coastal ones above them, it just makes it very challenging. I go, I mean, I'll come out and say, if I have 10 rounds of split up at band and I'm probably playing four of them on trails. Yeah, that's an interesting exercise. So we can do that towards the end here, but yeah, it's just, you know, like, actually it was the one, other than Pacific, it was one of those most nervous to play left-handed, just because there are some

force carries and there's a lot more elevation change. Some bad spots you can get into. Yeah, and really. It's actually on number one, if the wind is below, and you can just see that, of like merrier grass or whatever. Yeah, we're on, was that five, the, the, uh, par three, we got forced carry over the, you know, that, like, that hole is the closest thing I've seen to like,

Ro Melbourne. Five and 17 both. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Uh, but yeah, just like the, from a, from a aesthetic perspective, from a strategic perspective, from a walk, like it's, it's it's a you feel like you're hiking the Appalachian Trail and all the signage is that they're all paths are mulched. It's just like the detail stuff there's. It's a trail walk. I was gonna say it sounds like such a lame observation, but what a perfect name band in trails is.

Yes. I think that's maybe the most fitting name I've seen and golf. It feels like a trail walk. That little pocket of the property back there where you get the 12. Yeah, that's so cool. And then you go down the hill and then 14's, the only pimple on the course of my opinion. It's just not, it doesn't mar the round for me,

but 98% of shots are gonna end up down in the same spot. I kinda like, I don't know if we wanna do 14 now or later, but 98% of shots are gonna end up down in the same spot. Yeah. I kinda like, I don't know if we wanna do 14 now or later, but I almost like the 14 exists just because, I think band and trails would be, it's really close to a perfect golf course. And I think the fact that you have that, it gives you something to bitch about and argue out

in the clubhouse afterwards, and some people like it, and somebody might have birdied it, and somebody might have tripled it, and like it just gives you, it's a lightning rod for a- I still think it would be polarizing but they can make some very subtle enhancements or tweaks.

Which we should mention, they've wanna quote enhanced it what like three times now since it's been over. It's total low cap privilege to say it's a great hole, I would say. No, I don't think it's a great hole, but I'm glad it exists. Yeah, it's where I'm at. I'm saying I birdied the first two times I played it,

and I, but at the same time I was looking like, yeah, I got kind of lucky to do that, and I can totally see why Caddy's wouldn't hate Caddy in that hole, and a lot of guys would end up in, you're end up in divots, because all the balls collecting the same spot. Not the biggest takeaway from band trails. Let's throw it to Neil.

What are your thoughts on trails? I would say it reminds me of a revenant as we've discussed. You feel like get the belts. It feels like a lamb for time, for a throwback. And I love the feeling of being on a course and not seeing anyone else for 18 holes. There's maybe two spots on that course

where you cross paths with another group. So similar to how I thought about Old Mac, I love the remote feeling. You go to this faraway place and you get the faraway vibe. And the golf just, it's very subtle. I think it's my favorite core and crenshaud joint. I was a little concerned that the sheep ranch was gonna be kind of like a reunion tour, play the hits,

but they released a really good new album. And I really like that. But trails is just like the heavy hitter from the past that you can't stop listening to on a road trip. Like, I got to throw that one on. So I think the GC's always used the abusive lover analogy with Duk and we've said it before, but core and crunch rather tantric, man. They do some funky stuff, it's really subtle, it goes on for a long time.

It's not electric out there, it's much more subtle. I would find to turn that a little bit more, I would say that cheap ranch, this problem is super tantric. And then I would say trails is like, probably the most healthy marriage you could possibly ever, ever have. You got a great, great relationship, you got great kids, your sex life's still good.

Everybody's in shape still. You do activities together. It's awesome. You like to like, you like candles still. You still do the romantic stuff. The better we leave love letters on the, on the bottom of the line. Still madly love, but you're like normal too.

Yeah. I would say look at the way we described our core Crenshaw day versus our Doked day. Like old MacPak tunes were kind of like. Domestic violence. Yeah, we were feeling beat up and then walking off after sheep ranch trails, we were kind of just on this high. Yeah, 14 might be a little bit of a midlife crisis.

You know, every marriage has rough points. Yeah. You're going to have conflict, but you're going to come out better on the other end. So 18 kind of things. I'd see I liked 18 a lot better this time than I did last. I did too. I think there's a lot, there's a lot of subtlety to it. Compared to the rest of the other end. So. 18 kind of things. I'd see I liked 18 a lot better this time than I did last time. I did too. I think there's a lot of subtlety to it.

Compared to the rest of the golf course. Agreed. Yeah, it's a little just let down of a finish, I guess. That's a good point. But I think it's a great part. I think it's a great part. A great part. A great part.

A great part. A great part. A great part. A great part. A great part. A great part. A great part. A great part. A great part. A great part Are they great? The hill is awesome. Take the trees out. Are they great holes?

I don't know. Honestly, I think the trees on those holes are what make them so, that's setting just makes those holes so, so fun to play. When you hear architecture snobs talk about how a golf course should be like a journey, like band and trails is the quintessential example of that. And it sounds like fluff, nothingness

to describe a place that way until you play band and trails. I feel like where you just, you leave and there's a beginning, a middle, and end. You go through all kinds of different circumstances, different landscapes and you kind of end up back where you started. It's, it, God, it's fucking cool. I love doing England a little bit. It feels like you're in Colorado for a little bit. I've never been to Swinley Forest, but it feels like what Swinley Forest would be like in a dream. And there's something about the way the greens sit and face you at Bannon Trails that is so appealing, so sexy.

Like number four. Yeah, that green is just, I just love it. I wish I had a better word to describe it other than I'd just love it. For 11, 15, like the way those sit just so gently in these little nooks. And I think that's, you know, I'm probably speaking about a tournament.

I think that's the architects for sure, but I also think it's like the crew that you have working on that stuff. I mean, it's the shapers and the landscape people that can see that stuff, because, you know, I don't mean to take a pot shout at it, but like, Randy and I just got done playing Pains Valley in the Ozarks, and it was like the opposite

of that, where it's just, it doesn't feel like any of that stuff hits, especially with the corn crenchot across the street. We're like, holy shit, man, like these guys get, they're so much subtlety and restraint and... When the corn crenchot is next to something else, exactly. Exactly. Really highlights the, exactly your point of how that little subtlety and restraint and when they're when the core crunch is next to something else exactly really highlights the exactly your point of how that little subtlety to it. And you can go somewhere random and play a golf course and

back. I really liked it. And then if there's like a core crunch all one next door at the same resort, like it just like you're like, Oh, damn, yeah, that's that's kind of how it should be. It's so engaging at like four, six, 15. They're so engaging off the tee. Where like with like with those ridges and the cross bunkers and all that. I don't know, it's just, to me,

it's like it's such a complete golf course. If I had one hole that doesn't really like stick out, to me, it's probably 10. Yeah, that's fair. Yeah, 10 is a little bit of a weird, weird fit in there, I would say, but I freaking love trails. It gets better and better every time you play it. Are we ready for band and dunes? It depends a little bit of a weird fit in there, I would say. But I freaking love trails. It gets better and better every time you play it.

Are we ready for band and dunes? Are you ready for band and dunes? I am ready for band and. This was my third trip to band and first time went with my dad in 2013. Walked off thinking band and dunes was my favorite golf course there. I just maybe, because that was definitely the era

that if I played good in a course, I loved it. And so when we went back in 2018, I was kind of curious how, how would I think of it? Kind of started to understand a little bit more why people love Pacific, but still felt like Band-In was my favorite, but I wasn't proud to say it.

I was not like, I was still a little on my heels, like, yeah, just kind of like, I am ready to definitively say, Band-In-Dunes is the best golf course at Band-In. I think it's the most fun to play. I think there's like it. I am ready to definitively say, band-a-doons is the best golf course at band-a-don. I think it's the most fun to play. I think there's like legit brilliance in so many places that you wouldn't even look for it. And like some of the holes that come inland,

there's just so much to those golf holes too. And then the holes that hover along the stretch of the ocean are some of the most intriguing and fun golf holes I've ever played anywhere. So the reveal on four coming around, you know, it's a somewhat easy tee shot opening up between dunes coming at the ocean straight on with the positioning of the greenside bunkers and what that does to the lines you have to take and how you have to play the wind is exactly the charting exercise I'm looking for in a golf course. So can I understand why other people would love other golf courses more

absolutely, but for me it is hands down band and doons. My favorite golf course. I think it bears mentioning to go back to trails. The greens of trails were utterly fantastic compared to the past. But and then at band and doons, it's just like the the conditioning was I mean we played with the day after the USAF. I was in the USA.

Green section there. But yeah, I think for me, it was very, very interesting because this was another one I struggled with playing lefty because it's so visually intimidating and you have so much like I didn't realize this the first time that we played it or the first couple of times we played it where I find myself getting a lot more intimidated by stuff that's in front of me that may not even be in play. There's so many of those kind of visual aids

or visual tools that kid uses that's like, all right, you've got a content with this with your you've got to contend with this with your eye, but really not in reality. And there's so much more room up there than it looks like. And so I kind of let myself get spooked on a lot of these holes when I shouldn't have. That was the biggest and playing with you too. I mean, that was the biggest day

where the lefty thing kind of reared its head, I feel like. You didn't play with that Pacific. Well, that's fair. But that was more like wind-based. I think that's actually hard, though. Whereas I think what you're saying is band and just looks hard. And there's a lot more space.

I think I was tired to say there was a third, third or fourth day of band. So, yeah, I would say, I would agree. I mean, that four, five, six is so cool. I mean, seven is a really cool hole. Eight's a cool hole. 10 is cool, nine is cool. Like I mean, seven is really cool. Whole eights a cool hole. Not like 10 is cool. Nine is cool. Like I think that I think it's better.

I mean, it's pretty simple for me. Better coastal holes than Pacific dunes and better in Lennholes. It doesn't have a number six. Like well, it Pacific, which I think is a fantastic hole, but I just am so much more intrigued. The the 14th hole, the par four that wraps like with a green set right under a dune is a total, in a previous life, I would have been, it's a total throwaway hole and it's actually

one of the most interesting holes on the golf course I'd say. I'd say, band and dunes is the biggest like stock up in the stock just shot up for me. I think it marries the seaside enjoyment with like the capital G, capital C golf course in my book. And I was just going to go step further. I think the back nine at band and tunes, I think 11 is probably my least memorable or least favorite hole on that back nine. But it's my favorite nine hole, like it's my favorite side on the property is the back nine at band of dins. 12 that par three is so freaking good. That little pot bunker there just dictates everything.

And then again, we got to play this in the North wind. And I thought the course played so amazing in that wind. You get that wind off the right, which right handers love on both the approach shots into four and the par three, the 12th. You get downwind on 16, which is not necessarily easy, but it's a lot more fun than it would be to play into the wind. Again, I just think it plays, it doesn't like just have that stretch where you get punch, punch, punch going into the wind.

Five and six go into the wind on the coast there, but I think those coals play very well into the wind. The greens are very big on six, the par three, and there's plenty of space, and it's not a long shot to begin with. It's just, all that, and again, I go back to the ranking thing that DOK does. He gave Bannon a doons a seven and Pacific attend. The rating for seven is an excellent course,

worth checking out if you get anywhere within 100 miles. You can't expect to find soundly design, interesting holes, good course conditioning, and a pretty setting, if not necessarily anything unique to the golf world. 100% banan dunes is unique to the golf world. Well, and kid had such an advantage going first. Or your disadvantage going first, versus, you know,

like he's the test case, right? I just don't, like there is no possible way that those two courses are separated out by that much. If you wanna rank Pac-Dunes above Bannon, I'll understand that, but there's no, I will not understand anyone's rankings that have them that far apart. Yeah.

I still struggle, I don't love one, two, and three. I think three is awesome. I think kind of, but like, this time around, like nine's really cool. 13's really cool. 13's really cool. 14's one of my favorite holes at the resort. And then- 17's so cool.

All the holes, Rainy, I'm with you. It just completely shot up in my book and this is I think the third or fourth time I've been there. And so I've played it quite a few times and just had never really, I think a lot of it was due to you solid, like just challenging why I think it was low in my rankings and pushing back on some of the holes and the more you think about them, the more you're like, fuck, there is, there's a lot of it was due to you, so I was like, just challenging why I think it was low in my rankings and pushing back on some of the holes and the more you think about them, the more you're like,

fuck, there is, there's a lot more going on there than it really seemed like on first blush. And so a lot of those, the quote unquote, throw away holes, 13 and 14, I think, especially like that, part five of thirteenth is on like anything else that's really at the property. And it's the whole, I don't even think people think about it. You know, there's a lot going on there.

It's really, really cool. Neil, was it electric? Certain parts of our electric. I mean, it's not slapping you up to face. Well, what about the first time you played it? No, it's not as much. I don't think it has the, it doesn't have the ups and downs, I guess, of Pacific Doons.

But the more you play it, the more it ages well. And I think it definitely went up in my book this time around. I think you guys covered most of the reason that I do talking to Dave McClack, gave me a new appreciation for it too, like designing that in your 20s, you know, as your first golf course or whatever, like that's incredible, You know, that's really, really strong. And I think if you, if it's been there what, over 20 years now, definitely I agree with you, Sal, you need to the golf world. I will say I don't think that era has ended where you like courses you play well on.

I think that era is still going on, but that's, that's a side that I've played very poorly abandoned dunes, many of the most recent times, which is, so I'm gonna push back a little bit on that. But I'll say band and dunes is aged really well from what I've gathered. It was way more difficult when it opened, a lot more gorse, and they've made, McCleik hit his tweet a lot. So maybe Dokes rating comes from an original time seeing it

in 1999 or 2000 and said it was too difficult. I mean, reports are that the fifth hole was a disaster Like just the gorse overflow in that hole and how difficult that was yeah I would I would say that there are some of the What's the phrase like stern but fair like really hard holes but not because you're getting blown off the planet like number five and number 15 to par three I struggle with those two. Like I played it twice now and both those holes are, you know, a bit of a like boogie man.

Looking at bears mentioning, they're like, we've also played with the same pins that they had in the final round, or like the the finals, they sag around in the finals of the USM. Yeah, I mean, so like, it's very easy to say like all those guys had a shitty, windy day at Pacific Doons and hated it and literally USM conditions for banded Doons is why they

loved it. I think we're giving credence to both, like, separating out the conditions from it to be able to say, like, what we actually think on the golf courses. Yeah. It's difficult. Going back to, I'm just looking at the routing here and like, it's so difficult, like it's difficult going back to I'm just looking at the routing here and like it's so difficult like as somebody who's you know At that point I'm probably hitting it 240 240 5 off the tee Still struggling a little bit of a slice and like 8 9 10 11 like there's so many

There's so much there's so many land mines out there that I'm looking at in the fairway and I'm like what the fuck do I Versus you know knowing exactly playing right hand, I know exactly what my miss is, or exactly how far my carry is on something. Like that was really what tested me the most on that one. Yeah, TZI, I definitely agree with you, even for like, you know, playing my dominant right handed. I think there's double bogies waiting on band-in like, you know, playing my dominant, you know, right handed.

I think there's double bogies waiting on bandin in places that aren't obvious, whereas I think like at Pacific, like it's very, like you hit it here, you're gonna, you know, you hit it off the cliff three. Yeah, like that blow out Bukaki bunker, you go in there or you're done, right? But at bandin, you're like, oh no. I'm talking to horny men.

Like I think that's gonna be okay right there. And it's like, nah man, like you're, like you don't know it yet, but that's gonna be like a very, very monotonous double bow you just made. Sorry, still. Folks, there you have it. Should we, uh, do we do rankings? I think we should.

Yeah. Go ahead, Deach. Well, is it, I don't know if this is... Nah, just rank them. Well, there's two different rankings for me. I think we should. Yeah. Go ahead, Deach. Well, I don't know if this is... Nah, just rank them. Well, there's two different rankings for me, I think. There's what I think is the best golf course, and there's what I think are my favorite courses. I don't know what you want.

I don't know what you want. Do favorite. All right, if I was going there tomorrow, this is the order that I would want to play. Sheep Ranch number one, trails number two, band and number three, old Mac number four, Pacific De teams number five Very interesting. Neil. Let's go to you next. I would just say if I had ten rounds. I play them all twice

I love every course out there. I'm not gonna do the extra question We're penning you down got to rank your five favorite. I think they all exist as it as a grouping for me I like them all man. You're everything. I kind of like all no. I'd say I'd play I Think I'd go sheep ranch, trails Pacific, bandin, old Mac. Shepard-Rail's trail, sheep ranch trails Pacific, bandin, old Mac. Okay.

Yeah. You gotta remember that first time you played Pacific. It's electric. It's electric. T.C. Thomas, that is electric. I'm going trails. Trails sheep ranch.

A tie. No, I'm still going Pacific. Doons old Mac. And if I have 10 rounds, I'm going four on trails, two on doons, two on sheep ranch, two on packed doons. No bandin? No, two on packed dunes. No bandin? No, no, no old Mac. No old Mac.

Sorry, I was. So your ranking was the same as Niels, I think. How about that? Okay, Randy. Bandin dunes, sheep ranch, old Mac, trails, Pacific dunes. Old Mac. Tumbling. Down the rankings. It's fair. I'm going. I appreciate your your candor. Sure.

Bannon dunes, sheep ranch, trails, packed dunes, old Mac. That's my fun. There you have it. Put a lot of thought into that and I feel very confident in that. And in terms of like kind of gave it to coin flip test of like all right you're getting transported to Bannon tomorrow and you're gonna play one of these courses what would make you more excited and that's's where I, that's how I rank. We'll do a, on the website sometime, we'll do like a composite course. That would be a lot of that. We try, she branched those a big wrinkle

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Can we rank the food and beverage outlets too? Sure. I think that's an important thing. I haven't put enough thought into this. I'll say trails is obviously number one. I would follow that up with McKee's probably. McKee's pizza is really good in the meatloaf, of course. Well, we didn't get in the main band and dunes lodge.

We've been there before that. Well, that's, I know. It's just gonna say for me, that's a bit of a blind spot, I don't know. So, for me, it's, it's trails one. Trails one, two, three, four, and five. Yeah, I mean, Pac-Dunes good too. I would say Pac-Dunes is probably my number two, and then McKee's, and then, you know, the stuff,

and like, the stuff in the band in Club Alus is great. We didn't get, I like to go in that bunker bar again, with COVID, none of that was really going on, unfortunately. But, well, I'd like to shout out one other thing. I'd never been to the range, excellent practice facility. We took a little personal day on the trip and I got in a spiritual range session. And we were talking about that last night.

I've played like 15 rounds of golf a band and now I've never hit a range ball there. I'm never even thought to though. I'm just like, I know. And that's fine. And I do that on your day off. I just wanted to go check out the practice facility and it turns out it's like, it epic complex.

They got a little par three course over there, good shipping area and just an awesome range. So a little up and down course there, named after Shorty Dow as well, one of the original characters. Yeah, and I just thought it was a really pleasant surprise because I've never had a range ball and still haven't before around, which I, you know, that's fine. And if next time I go, probably be the same thing.

But I think if you do have some time, you know, it's nice to sometimes just go hit ball, you know, put a podcast in and it was great. It was just a nice little personal two hours. What'd you guys do on your day? I had to watch golf. I had to watch the wind them, unfortunately. But I did a lot of interviews. A lot of interviews with people. Randy, we woke up and watched the Formula One. Yeah. It was like 6am.

That was a stinker. And Neil and I went and got a greasy spoon breakfast in town. Yeah. I was kind of doing interviews then. Which was great. Yeah, I forget the rest of it. I'd never been in a town. I'd never been in a bandin' before. Oh, it's awesome. I went two days in a row.

I went to the crab place there, and sat there for like three or four hours, and just ate crab and drank beers, and talked to locals, and it was great. When T.C.'s in bandin' he goes to the crab place. Three times away. Three times away. I only went there once.

I only went there once. The only one there was. We probably should have said this before we started talking about ban and whatnot, but just for disclosure purposes, we are not paid by ban and dunes in any way. Our golf was, I would say, our golf and accommodations are included complimentary when we do travel there,

but in our critiques of the place, obviously come with the context of like, this is like one of the greatest golf destinations in the world. We are nitpicking when we do, I'm not saying that because we owe that to anyone. I just don't want anyone to walk away thinking like we are especially critical of this place

when it is truly one of the great golf destinations in the world, bar none. It's not an imitation of Lynx Golf. It is Lynx Golf and it gets better every time I've gone and I just freaking love the place and I know that's not a bold take in any way because everyone that goes there loves it, but there's a reason why.

So that was coming back to conditioning thing. That's just like it's, if you're ranked in the top 30 in the world, we have expectations, right? So. God, you see, has certain needs. I do keep coming back to 14 on bandin. That's such a, it's a great, awesome, freaking hole, man.

Great, great hole. So, let's go, before we left town, before we left the city, the town of bandin, we checked out bandin crossings, Randy, why don't you take us there? Yeah, it's a Dan Hicks and course, just outside the little town. I mean, I would never tell anybody on a shorter vacation

to leave band-in to go play it, but at the same time, I really loved it. I think it's a course that you could put in Northern Minnesota, Northern Michigan. That was what was reminiscent about it for me. Some funky, funky holes. And I know some of them might not be great, but there were two separate occasions where I hit like driver wedge, like hybrid on part five. Like I was laying up, my second shot was a wedge on a part five. So you just get some quirkiness out there.

The conditioning was exceptional. It's really the course that we were told time and again, like the caddies love to go out there and play, right? It's where they can get away from the resort and the guests and really have some fun and recharge the batteries a little bit and reconnect with golf in a much more casual and lighthearted manner. So I'm curious, I loved it. And I thought there were legitimately awesome holes out there.

I don't know if we want to call them out specifically or how much time we want to devote to crossings, but I didn't have high expectations. And I think because of that, I was blown away. Well, a couple of things we should mention, we played with Dan Hicks and the golf course architect and his story is kind of wild in itself in that he was a pro at, I believe, Columbia, Edgewater, I think.

He was like a PGA professional for a long time, got kind of tired of that. Always had kind of been like an amateur amateur golf course architect, sketching holes and ideas and that kind of stuff. And basically just woke up one day and was like, I'm done with being a golf professional. And I'm going to hang up my sign now. And now I'm a golf course architect starting now. And just started doing stuff and like use connections to kind of, you know,

a golf, you know, country clubs replacing a bunker or they want to lengthen a hole or whatever. And they don't maybe have the money to hire a bigger name architect like Dan kind of made his chops, uh, doing that kind of stuff. And then eventually this job came up and someone reached out to him and said, Hey, we've got a client who's looking to build a course in bandin' and he's like, head explodes. He's like, oh my God, this is a big, and of course, it puts on the other side of the course. And he's like, no, no, no, it's not like there.

It's in tough. So he found out this was going on. And he reached out to the people doing the job, basically said, here's, I'm very interested. They sent him kind of like an almost an application type thing by his admission, like, he's like, yeah, I couldn't check yes to like any of the questions on the application. I hadn't done anything,

but I basically just wore these people down and called him and said, hey, let me, I'm up in, I forget where he was, Portland or Eugene. And he said, I'm gonna drive down and I'll meet you later today. And we can talk about it. He said, by the time he left that lunch,

he had gotten the job. And so then it was kind of time to design his first golf course. And so all of that is a prelude to, we're out there with him. And I had heard this story. I was like really excited to see the golf course. And we got in and I thought the first,

like maybe two, three, four holes. I'm kind of like, that's right, I thought the first like, you know, maybe two, three, four holes. I'm kind of like, that's right, it's the first three. I was kind of like, yeah, this is. It's okay. Pretty, whatever. Pretty blonde. Like this, you know, it's a great shape, whatever.

And I'm kind of looking at, you know, skipping ahead, I had already been to Sylvie's Valley Ranch, which is a wild ass reversible golf course that Dan also did. And I think it was his third big project. And so I'm looking at these first two or three holes and playing with Dan and I'm like, man, there's the same guy did like these two golf courses. Like this is nuts. And then you get to four up by the turn,

the, you know, not halfway house, but the little like food check that's up there. And the whole place just like completely turns and gets wild and really cool and super imaginative. And I loved it after that. I thought it was, I thought it was awesome. Yeah, five like this downhill, par five to this green that's probably 40, 50 feet below. And then yeah, I mean like from from from their onwards, it's just a it's just just, and it's cool too, because like, listening to him talk about building it and everything like that, he's like, yeah, I don't know,

I just thought that was cool, man. Like, he's just like, I just, He's not overly prideful about it. He's, you know, he's, he's, There's like, there's like a certain rusticism about it. He's some host like, yeah, I don't like this whole. Well, I think there's a lot of probably, you know, rules that other architects would have been defined by

or stuff that people would have said, like, well, you can't do that. It's not a walking golf course. No, and I think you just saw, I was like, I don't know, I didn't know about that rule. So I just, I did this. It's, it's, it is jarring. It's really cool to not have forced carries like you go play band and we played five rounds of band and look like no, basically no forced carries.

And then you hit get it with something like the mega forced care. Yeah, it's a pretty, like it's not a perfect piece of land. There's some great stuff on it, but like you're, there's a massive, massive kind of fall off, you know, down to these creeks and this damned up river. And he had all sorts of environmental stuff that he had to follow, because it's in the watershed and there's wetlands and all that.

But part three is really, really cool. And then like I thought, just going through, I think eight was awesome. My favorite. Ten was fantastic. Ten is like almost how I feel like, like I've never played Pine Valley, but it almost was like, man,

like this seems like something Pine Valley would be, just this kind of, you know, like really demanding. I would say it's kind of all over the map. Like it doesn't, I would not say it flows great because it's got ups and downs to it. But some holes that I'm just like, oh my God, this is like being in England right now. That's the one.

And that's how they build themselves on their website. It's, it's healing golf. Yes. And like that eighth hole back into that corner is exactly, that's where I felt like I was in England all over again. And so you're living? The redan might be the best redan in bandin. Yeah. It's better than one of the old Mac, I'll tell you that. To Braini's point, the redan might be the best redan in bandin.

Yeah, it's better than one of the old Mac, I'll tell you that. To Braini's point, the way you started it was perfect. I think we were kind of, I was hopeful that the course would be like, hey, if you go to bandin, please don't miss this. I struggled to give it that recommendation. I think it's like, yeah, if you're there for a long period of time and you wanna get off the property,

you wanna go inland, play some, you know, a different style of golf, like that's a real thing. You can wear yourself out. Yeah, I would say go, like, sleep in one day, have lunch in town, and then go play this place, like, made the late afternoon. Yeah. And it's gorgeous.

And then, like, I would say it's inherently interesting. Yeah. Like, it's a very interesting golf course. I think it has bar none, it has the worst finishing hole I've ever played before. And I told Dan that. It was like, yeah, you know, like, we had some constraints and they weren't a par five finishing hole on this. But it's so...

It's an A.T.'s a tough scene. But just for context sake, if I would say, I'm curious you guys take on this too, is if I'm throwing crossings in among 10 rounds in bandin, it's not getting one for me. Unless I'm sure somewhere in the world there's the luckiest people who get to go to bandin and just stay there for two weeks. And in those people like, yeah, maybe like sprinkle it in.

That's what I would play it if I had two weeks for sure. But if I'm there for four days, I don't think so. Right. 10 rounds would you take, would you use one on crossings? Sure. Yeah, I'd almost rather play crossings and like if the winds whip in, like I don't need to go play Pacific Doons, no thanks.

If I was playing each course of banded twice, I would skip Old Mac a second time and can play this. Okay. That's kind of where it lands for me. I would say the same thing, but with Pacific Doons probably. Okay. Neil, even though it is, as mentioned, electric.

What are your thoughts on crossings? Well, some people can't handle the electricity for long periods of time. It's bad for them. I would say, I loved it. I played with Squid, so it was awesome to play golf with. It was Squid the Cady. And if you go to Bannon, you know, strike up a friendship with your Cady. Go out and treat him to a round of golf and make sure you take a cart. You know, because they don't with your caddy, go out and treat him around a golf

and make sure you take a cart, you know, because they don't wanna walk on their day off. Meal Cup is also good for distances and lines too. You did, yeah. Is that what took you guys a lot of time? You guys played both shows and the precision pro. Which is weird, because we played under the allotted pace. We had these, we had like two groups.

I was gonna point that out, because I don't think it's gonna make the footage, but if you've seen Strap Peoria, I want the record to state here that I'm not the only NLU member that gets rattled by somebody pushing the pace behind them. DJ, Sally, and Tron were getting absolutely smooth. It's tough when it's your group ahead that's clogging up the worse. We haven't used that and then it's closing closing that on somebody else. We're going slow. Oh my god.

But if we were playing under the allotted time for the course, like how are we clogging stuff? And you should just let it play through. But we were playing faster than pace, I guess, is my point. So listen, we'll take this offline. I believe as Neil said and strapped,

you're going 85, but the guy behind you wants to go 90. You should let us play through. You should let us play through. You should let us play through. You should let us play through. We were waiting on every single hole. We should, you guys could have won, you could have played through.

And two, you could have offered that. All right, go ahead. We can take this off. You guys just kept saying, you just kept telling us to speed the fuck up. We were like, why don't you play through it? Like, no, just speed up. Oh, oh, oh, oh.

Thank you, I think that's conjecture. You all right. I think the part three, I was kind of blown away by the part threes. The part threes were really interesting, varied, and then the greens, they were so pure. They really were. Anything else you wanna add on crossings?

I think lastly, we just need to say, just give a shout out to Squid again for, he was our caddy last year, or a couple of years ago when we went, and then there was obvious choice this time. out to squid again for, he was our caddy last year, a couple years ago when we went, and then there was obvious choice this time. I was like, he's the best, he's become a good friend. And somebody that, even more so than a caddy,

somebody you just wanna go out and spend a whole day with, four days, five days in a row out there. He's just a companion and a wise sage. And I want to give a shout out to James as well, who was, he carried, he carried for me several different times. And I played poorly and he like went to bed, like upset about his, dude, I've really let you down there. No, you didn't, man, like I didn't do my job here.

He was an excellent, excellent caddy. The program there is off the charts. And, uh... Yeah, Squid was referencing shots that I had hit three years prior. And he's like, yeah, I mean, I remember what we did. You know, I've kind of, that kind of pissed me off that we did that last time. So let's think about this differently, because that kind of derailed you last time. I'm like, dude, I didn't even remember that, you know.

But yeah, I mean, definitely request him, but only if you're going to take care of him. Like... Yeah. Take him for your whole trip, because that's kind of how this stuff works. You wanna take care of these guys, tip-wise, take care of them, whatever they want out on the course, drink-wise, and then, yeah, just really like, take him every day. If you're gonna take him, take him for your whole trip.

Yeah, they're there to make your experience better, and they'll definitely do it. So, are we ready to move on to Ben Tethero? Should we try pie? Yeah, absolutely. I think, well, first of all, we got very lucky to play with the golf course architect of both Ben and Dunes. They should offer that all the time.

And Tethero. Yeah, if everybody could play with David McLeod kid, I think they'd, you know, they'd enjoy themselves even more. By, so I don't feel bad quoting him saying that this was his divorce course. He said, quote, I was miserable at the time I, in my life when I built that golf course and I wanted everybody else to be miserable as well. Yeah, I think I think it's worth interesting. It's worth mentioning too.

Like he was kind of at a place where he didn't know what like, hey, how do you follow up band and totals? And like, what's, what's, cause in his own words, he got Americanized. Yeah, it was like, how do I, you know,

what's, what's my calling card? What's my identity? Well, and I think there's a super, you know, I don't know that people really think about golf course architects as artists all that often, but I think similar to other artists who get really, you know,

basically blow up when they're really, really young. You got to do a lot of learning in a very public way after that, you know what I mean? It's like JD Salinger. Yeah, like you got to figure it out in front of everybody. Well, you know, he, he, by his own admission, he's like, man, I got, you know, I got a, I did a really good job at banding, but also I got a little lucky, right? Like I had a perfect piece of land, I had an unbelievable client, I had just all these,

he had a lot of help, I think, from his dad, a lot of input from his dad, and I think a lot of things just fell right to knock Bannon out of the park, completely like 10 out of 10, shout out to the docks go. But after that, it's kind of like, okay, now I need to figure out a bunch of other stuff that I don't really know as a golf course architect.

And I think a lot of architects aren't super young when they design golf courses, right? They work for, you know, you see this almost a apprenticeship type program where people are working for Pete Dyer, they're working for Tom Doak or they're working for, you know, other Bill and Ben, they're working for all these people, and then you go do a golf course yourself,

whereas I feel like DMK has been much more like, okay, I did this first one, and now I've got all the cash A, and I can go do whatever, and I trial by five. Yeah, I've just got to figure it out in front of everybody. And so I think- Plus, he had to have like a chip on his shoulder too,

because he couldn't rely on all those mentors or all those other things. Yeah, and so that's why you see things like, and I'm gonna bring all this around in that, like I actually really liked Tethero, but you see things like Tethero and the Castle Course at St. Andrews and these things that have gotten not the best reviews, I think,

just because they're really hard or they're really just juxtaposed with a lot of what I think he's come to really, really love in golf. And now I think you see stuff that I haven't been to gamble sands, but for everything that we've heard, I haven't played Man with Doons, but from everything we've heard, it's come so much more back around to what was I doing? Like this stuff needs to be so much more playable, it needs to be so much more fun. His attitude about that helps tell that story, too.

He's not too prideful to be like, I went through this. I messed this, this, and this up. Yeah, and I realized I was kind of doing it wrong. And so, and I will say both the Castle Course and Tethero, similar to Band-A-Dunes have grown up a lot over the years as well. And they have been tweaks out the ass to both golf courses, I understand, to salt. Like, he told a story, a club champion,

the first year of the club championship at Tethero, that the guy won it without hitting more than five iron. It was like so penal that it was just like, He thought a story, a club champion the first year of the club championship at Tethero, that the guy won it without hitting more than five iron. It was like so penal that it was just like, no, you don't even reach for driver, just pound five iron off every tee and figure it out from there. But Tethero was completely juxtaposed

with band and where everything you say about sheep ranch where it's like, man, you just show up and this golf course is, man, this golf course might have been here for a thousand years like who knows tetheros. It's totally man-made It's in the middle of the high desert basically and in bend and it just it feels More artificial I would say and I don't say that really in a bad way Just it's as natural as it can be in a setting that's not really made for golf right like the land There's crazy cool undulation and movement and stuff, but it's like Arizona. It's super arid.

Yeah, it feels a lot like Desert Golf. And so the greens are absolutely bananas. The fairways are absolutely insane. There's a lot more thoughtfulness, I think, that has probably been put into the golf course. Like you're saying, I think it's probably grown up a lot more where it's like, okay, let's give you a little bit more space so that you actually can be on this left-hand side

so that you actually can get an angle. Because once I think you start unlocking some of that stuff, like it gets a lot more fun. And I actually thought it was, maybe it was the tease that we played, maybe it was the fact that we didn't really have much wind, but I actually thought it was pretty playable for all the horror stories that we heard about it.

I did too. I was even choosing where to play in band because there's Versaude, there's the two courses at Pronghorn, two of a man, everybody was like, dude, the views are great at TetherObo, you're gonna get punched in the face 18 times in a row. And I didn't really feel like that quite as much. And I think it's certainly been softened over the years and they've taken out, you know, some of that desert brush that was creeping in like right on the greens. But it's certainly a penal golf course, but it's tough off. I think it's really tough off the tee. But, you know, I think

it's it's actually the kind of course that if you played it every day to like it, it can play very different on a day-to-day basis, which is cool, I think, as a member. Well, and that's what David was talking about a ton. And I know every club says this about their members, but like, Tethero, with it being such a demanding golf course, I think the members love, love, love, how much of an advantage they have.

Because he was saying he's like, no, no, no, no. When you come here the first time, like, yes, you're going to be completely overwhelmed. Your senses are going to be overwhelmed. You're going to not know what the fuck you're supposed to do on a lot of these golf holes. And the members love like sitting in their back porch and be like, no, you know what?

There's a way to play all of these golf holes. And I know exactly what it is. And it's not as hard as you think. And you just got a bang one down here up the left side. Hit the middle of the green. And you're, it's going to feed down here and blah, blah, blah. Like the members really, really love having the, having the cheat codes basically.

I thought it was far more. I actually, after playing that, I actually understood bandit dudes a lot more. Just because I was interacting with the course very similarly off the tee at both of these courses. It's a much more extreme piece of property, but yeah, it was like, he was using the same tricks and deception and everything, but when really like, you've got a shitload of room up there.

You're psyching yourself out. See, I thought, I want to be careful with this low cap privilege can come in talking about Tethero, then I didn't find it as hard as I thought it was going to be mostly because there was room off the tee to hit irons and it was firm. So it was like, dude, if you want a pound driver, yeah, that probably looks a little tight, but I could hit that two iron all day long and have very reasonable clubs in playing. So Neil and I played with David himself for nine holes. And it was, if I would have been lost out there without him telling me exactly what kind of shot to hit. And it was really fun in that way.

He's like, all right, you need to hit a your 190 club, but you got to hit it at 170. Like that's the trajectory you need, but it's got to land here and it's got to run up here and do this. And like it was really fun to like try to, I felt like I was, I had like a, my teacher was standing over my shoulders,

I took the test and it was like, I'm gonna show him how smart I am. And how good I am and how I could do it, and sometimes I would execute the shot, and sometimes I wasn't. So I had so much fun doing that. Is that the experience for everyone playing the golf course, of course not?

And you need some of that information to be like, yeah, you don't wanna miss here, can't miss here. And every green being up to, he's like, to what TC said, like, yeah, the Desert Brush was like on the fringe right here, it was so insanely hard that I think now it's not as dumb hard as it's challenging. There's no doubt. I thought I played good. I thought I should, I think I should like 77 and I played a good round of golf.

So yeah, it's difficult still, but it's not. I was expecting it to be lost ball every time you missed a fairway and that was not the experience. It reminded me a little bit of tobacco road in that it was kind of as hard as you would like to make it on yourself. You know what I mean? A lot of that goes into the teas, a lot of that goes into what clubs you're hitting off the tea. There's a hero way to play this hole, and there's a pretty easy way to play this hole.

You decide which one you want to do on each tea box. I thought there were some great, great part fours, like that one on the front nine, that kind of two- two tiered fairway. Was that six, I think? And then, yeah, I mean, the back nine was just exceptional. I thought, like the part fives were interesting the entire day.

There was that really cool part three, 17. It's kind of almost something that's like a little quarry back there, but. Kid was so awesome. We have so much golden on video from him and him just talking about the golf course and everything. There's a good match play course. Yes.

Randy, you kind of, you know, this is, you ruin this because you've gotten so much better at golf, but you used to be like the highest handicap, and I used to be like, okay, well, what is, you know, what was it like for the higher handicap, or T.C. now plays that role left handed, but what did you, what did you think, et cetera?

I kind of agree with you. I had a little, like my driver is probably a kin to your two iron. And like if you hit little fairway finders off the tee, I thought the challenge was certainly in the approach shots and where it could be a little bit unduly penalizing was like, if you're trying to go right out of pin and you miss the pin that's like on the left side of the green, there's probably a big slope

that your ball is gonna hit that slope and go 20 to 25 yards into the brush and you may or may not find it. Like I thought for me it was understanding, like, hey, almost like don't aim at the flag. Like, just try to find the fat part of the green or like, miss on the side where it doesn't look extremely penalizing. And so that was my mindset playing there. I kind of like you though in the same way where, because I was hitting good drives off the tee, I was like, oh, this is much more playable

than I was expecting based on what people had told us. But those approach outs, I'm like, I can definitely see where it's like, oh man, I miss that shot literally by like five yards of where I wanted to and now I can't find my ball because it kicked off the slope and like the sage brush. While playable, you could still lose balls in it. And it's not, if you're not prepared for that,

it's especially like punishing. Whereas if you come in knowing it's gonna be really difficult, it kind of is surprising of like, okay, this is possible at least, it's just punishing. Neil, any thoughts? Yes. Playing with McLeod Kid was, he's a Tour de Force and what a juxtaposition to Hixen.

And not any detriment to either guy, but you talk to Hixen about, hey, why'd you do this? I don't know, because I felt like it. And with David McLeod kid, it was like, so what were you thinking here? And he literally had like a soliloquy about every question, like a complete, like some, it's almost like some artist want to be like, no, it's for you to figure out. And McLeod kid's not that kind of artist. He's like, no, this is exactly what I meant. And this is what I try to do. And this is why it worked. This is why it didn't work.

This is what you should be feeling. I was like, wow, which was enlightening. And it definitely added to the round of golf. I also enjoyed the motorcycle golf golf club. Thanks. I wish for as much as you enjoyed those fuck golf boards. You're out? Yeah. So I, fuck golf boards. You're out?

Yeah, so I could not be more. You're out, they're fun. I think it's a motorcycle. No, I think they're a choice. That was a perfect course for that, right? Some, nobody likes to walk, and they're, they're walk a trollier more than me, but getting on a hog and throwing my bag on there,

room, room, I was, I was vibing with the transportation. and Ben kind of has that kind of fits the vibe of Ben. It's just like, yeah, man, you know, a nice carefree summer, getaway, and winter get like just kind of vacation town is the feeling I get at Tadaro and just in Bend. And we should mention, I know I've said a lot about the members, but it's kind of a cool model, right? Where it's almost like semi-private, I guess, where you can, there is a big membership of people who live there, but also like you can absolutely walk up and play the golf course as well. Yeah. Bizarre architecture too, like. In the houses and stuff.

The houses, like the development around the course, you're like, what? I mean, just some really, what was the neighbors for Clark Rizzwald in Christmas vacation? I don't know if we ever learned their last name. Margot Todd, of course. Yeah, you know, the very modern looking house, like statement houses. That fits the landscape and, you know, the view of the life.

No, no, I think it's interesting. I'd rather that than, you know, the same look in house every, every whole. Like every house we passed by, if you were, it was like a whole family eating together on the back porch at 6 p.m. You know, kind of a dry desert heat. It was cool, but yeah.

It was pretty cool. Like I, and then, you know, squid, squid gave us a bakery to stop by. That's gonna say we have to mention the Sparrow bakery if you ever in bed Just you've have to hit it up multiple times squid city was thinking about driving up there four and a half hour from Ben just to do the sandwich. He loved it that much Neon I stopped at creator Lake on the way yeah one of the wonders of our country I was blown away by crater lake and then yeah on the way out of town

I was thinking all right. Yeah, we'll get gas on the way out of town here and like, it ended up, like, it kind of just drops off out of town and like... Heading east towards Sylvie's Vow Ranch. Yeah, it was like the three hour drive without a single gas station. And it was kind of the last... This is the last out-of-the-seat, baby. Yeah. It is remote.

Eastern Oregon is remote. And I think one thing on Tetherr2 is where there's a little bit of an altitude that, you know, I started, that was where I began air mailing some shots and then Sylvies is the highest course in Oregon and kind of like Colorado. Sometimes I struggle in the thin air, it just starts to, I start second guessing my club selection a lot more.

Especially coming from band-in where you're at sea level and it's not like, I think it's different when you're in Colorado and you're at 5,000, 6,000 feet and obvious the ball's going, you know, a full club club and a half farther. It's different when you're at 3,000 feet and it's kind of a half a club and you don't know exactly how it's gonna affect the shot.

And it's firm too, so like you got a whole other variable there. But, Neil, why don't you take us on the drive some and then out to Silvies Valley Ranch? I don't, this is maybe the most challenging one to describe via words only. Well, it sounds like DJ and I didn't over-hype it because I'm thrilled to hear how I was little concerned before the trip that, I was thrilled we were gonna end

at Silvies, but I was concerned that band-in would be the pinnacle of the trip and then you guys you know would be a little let down, but it was the opposite. It sounds like which is great and it's you know to set the stage Sylvis is three hours from from civilization. I guess the best way to put it. It's three hours from Boise, it's three hours from Ben, three plus hours and then it's what five or six six from Portland. It's not easy to get to.

The cell service drops off pretty quick about an hour outside of Ben and Boise, same thing when we came in from Boise last year. And they even say, don't drive in, they don't want you driving in at night. Like there's nowhere to get help. Like it's in the middle of nowhere. And it's 130,000 acre ranch, cattle and goat.

They have 5,000 cattle. They've got 4,000 goats running around. Fully functioning ranch, big machines, big country. It's just very romantic American West vibe up in these desert hills. But then there's all this, they've done a lot to revitalize the land, beaver dams. If you're curious about that, read DJ's golfers journal piece, and I'm sure we'll touch on some of that in the videos.

But the ranch, it's about a lot more than golf, but the golf, and I hope you guys can speak to this, the golf is really, really interesting. And they're smart, they've done a good job of kind of branding. Oh, that's the goat catty place. And that kind of gets the attention because it's a bit of a novelty. But now playing that that course both ways a couple times. Like I I like it. It's it's a you know, the classic statement, a place you could play every day. Well, I think it takes to the next level because you could play it every day and it plays differently every day. You play a different course.

But playing down the same fairways, you pick up some hints about what you're gonna, where you're gonna play to the next day. So that's an experience that I think gets better. The more you go, it's hard to get to. But I would love to go there multiple times over the coming years. It's worth the trip, 100%.

I think it's just extremely unique, right? From a golf perspective, it's unique from every perspective in that like the resort is unlike anywhere I've ever been because it feels so intimate and so small and welcoming and it feels like you're on a family, a family ranch, which it is, right? Like you, Scott and sandy camel are the owners and they're there usually having dinner with people

and everybody eats dinner together because there's only a handful of people at the resort at a given time. So everybody, there's one dinner bell, everybody comes in together and eats. There's some Thai works there, there's a bunch of, it just, it feels like you're on a family ranch because you are on a family ranch.

So that part is super unique. The the golf perspective it feels super unique as well in that It's not links golf, but it it almost is you know, it's it's like a really cool Almost like an interpretation of links golf. It doesn't play quite as fast It and I think some of that's just like mo heights and that kind of stuff like they keep it it played pretty I would say that's probably more so than anywhere I've played domestically. And it included, anywhere in Nebraska included. That's the closest I've gotten to the conditions we had in Scotland for our tourist offcy. And the best greens we played.

I mean the greens were unreal. I mean, and for a really pretty small crew they got out there, the course doesn't get a ton of play, which probably helps, but they're not slacking on the maintenance. It was, I was blown away by the condition, and it was just a ton of fun. That course is just all fun. If anything, the restraint on the maintenance

in terms of watering the fairway, like they did not water the fairways much, and they were brown, and that's gonna pop on the video, but it was so, so much fun that style of golf of like we had matches you know with varying styles of play and it was like very clear that the no style of play was at an advantage Like you could the widest fairways I literally I've ever seen in my life Which you would think would just you know give advantage to to you on either hit it You know on the further end of the spectrum.

But that is not how those golf courses play. And it was, I keep coming back to the word fun, which sounds like the biggest lame cop out answer. But that was just, I just smile thinking about playing that golf course. It was so much. So, it was so much. So, me, Sally, because I was a little concerned, you know, that you wouldn't like that course as much as the band maybe it doesn't have the strategic aspect.

So coming off the first day, I was like, what do you think? And you were just like, you know, your face is melting. I was like, oh, awesome, okay, good. Yeah, I was kind of, like I had low expectations for the golfers, like, all right, this experience is gonna be awesome, but the golf's gonna be part of that experience. And I came away thinking, it's really two different

experiences, there's the golf experience, which is exceptional in world class. I think you guys did a good job of giving it credit while also under selling it, reading your golf or journal piece or watching the Crash Course video or just listening to you guys talk about it. It's unique.

And I think the reversible nature of it, it's reversible in the best way that it maximizes the best parts of the property without being gimmicky or like having 27 greens and 36 holes is like, there's these ridges and these ridgelines and these little peninsula is that it maximizes from both sides of the green, but then without having to make the sacrifices of having a fully reversible course. And I think you could see reversible course

and see it as a gimmick or as like a marketing ploy for, oh, if it's reversible, then people will stay in extra day. And some of that's true, but it's not. Like that's not why they did it. It's a brilliant, brilliant design. I think it's so cool how they use the land in two different ways.

I will personally say Hankins like blue, Cratic away, the two roundings are Hankins and Cratic and Hankins felt like an incredible golf course like from one to 18. Cratic felt like the reversible version of the course. They were one and two very clear for me yet at the same time, I liked that variance. Like if I was going to stay there, I wouldn't want to play Hankins two days in a row. I'd want to do them both.

And I like, I think the best holes on Cratic were like, you're, you're playing to the same, like, yeah, same greens. They were the reversible ones. I think some of the weaker holes were the, the stand alone was, he stand alone. Yeah. And it's not a, it's not a walking course either. You know, you check in at the resort and it's, they give you a two-way radio golf cart

and a water bottle. It's like all terrain golf cart. Yeah, it's like, yeah, just don't, you know, go do whatever you want but don't get hurt kind of thing. And it's not, but it's nice. It's a really good vibe to have like, you got your rig, you got your all terrain cart and you can just load it up and you feel like you're just Yeah, you're on the adventure. Yeah, we do

Yeah, yeah, you can take that card up in the middle of the night and not tell anyone Yeah, you gotta go check in with Mike and Bruce, you know, we look at the god the stars are unbelievable at night Truly electric mind- blowing, you know? You know what, I've got, I do wanna say, first of all, McVase gauntlet, the seven-hole challenge course. Well, let's stick on the, I'm curious, get Randy Stouts on the golf course here,

and before we get to the challenge courses. I think you nailed it, I'd agree with you. I thought the Hankins, and it's rated higher, so we're not the only people to have this opinion. I thought the Hankins and its rated higher. So, you know, we're not the only people to have this opinion. I thought the Hankins was my preferred routing, but it was great to get to play it both ways, if you will. I will say as somebody who's played the loop up at Forest Dunes in Michigan, which is a true reversible course,

the loop and Sylvie's Valley are the two places. I felt the conditioning most mirrors what we got in dried out Scotland, which is really, really cool. I wasn't, yeah, man, I don't have much original. I didn't know what to expect with the golf and was just completely flabbergasted by how really, really, really good it was.

I think the only thing that won't pop on the videos is just it's a little hazy because it's because of the force fires going all around. Yeah, and then kind of the kuturmonce to the golf where you've got these two challenge courses are just, you know. Like, Vase gauntlet is simultaneously the dumbest and the greatest thing ever.

Like, it is so freaking hard, but that is the point. That might have been my favorite course of the entire trip. It was so fun. Oh, God. It was such a hard part, too. It is like seven holes and it has one part four that's like you could hit a five iron to a dot,

like it's like maybe like two 20 or something, but an elevation up to a dime size green. Or you could hit a wedge into into a dollar bill size fairway and then pitch on it is so hard to describe. We have it on film, but it is kind of, it is a challenge, it is like the goal as hard as possible. And then I will say, I think the goat catty thing

is totally unnecessary and I think it, from a publicity standpoint, it's such a novelty that it detracts from like they don't need to do that. But do I thought about that too? No but it's what we know about it. The goats are awesome animals too. Like it's a goat ranch.

I totally think the goats. I think they think the goats. Once you get there you realize like oh like they're not. You know it's just it's fun. It's like who cares? I don't think it takes away. Like no but it bothers me that that's what's always out front as far as and like, it's just, it's fun. It's, it's like, who cares? I don't think it takes away from the front. Like, no, but it bothers me that that's what's always out front as far as, and like, no, it's like,

you should be talking about like, how fucking good these like two championship golf courses. That's what we're gonna do. Yeah, that's what we're here for. We're gonna be the change, T.C. I thought about that and I wondered, like, would we know about this place to the extent that we did to the point where it was like worth going out there

for your story, DJ, last year, would you have known about it without the goats? That was the first time I heard about it. It's a brilliant marketing play. I think you got to differentiate. It's a little disconcerting to have the goat caddies and then have goat on the menu in the evening.

I'll say that. Shavon. Shavon, I'm with you, Neil. I think it's a fun marketing play. What did I keep calling it? Shavel. Shavel. Shavelavelle the goat like the goats You can listen to them on serious X-X and 41 turbo sucks

That I got these these Peruvian guys that that come up the go up. They're like the goat herders They bring him in from Peru and they got you know the Paxing the branch tour was so freaking cool We had we had the abbreviated Ranch Tour. Yeah. If anybody does go set aside a morning or an afternoon for the full Ranch Tour, because it is fucking unbelievable how that place functions.

And if you love walking through museums and learning stuff, that's, if you watch Yellowstone or like, yeah, or into the Old West at all. I mean, it's unsaid. Because I think it's a good story too. Like Scott and Sandy, like they're from out that, like they're from the kind of the nearest town.

Burns, I believe. Yeah, Burns and the, you know, like the timber industry and logging is kind of evaporated in that part of Oregon and there's just not a whole lot going on out there and it used to be kind of a pretty well well off town And so they're trying to like bring jobs back and all that and Just two super super down to earth Exceptional people and I'll say great place for couples. It is not just golf there. Obviously like it if that was my needy

Media takeaway was told my lady is like yeah, this is a place we need to get back to And for kids too. Like, the other thing I'd say is really, and you know, I may be beaten this to death, but like, the one that remote vibes awesome, but even on a busy day, or if there are, you know, I think max 50 people can stay at the resort at one time. There's going to be maybe four groups on the course on the busiest day. Like how good of a vibe is it when you have a golf course to yourself? Just, you know, especially with the match, we're doing match play and like people are playing

slow, it's just completely your own venue in a way. And that, you don't get that a lot in golf. And I think that's especially public golf. It's just a really, really unique vibe. And the food and beverage program that between the wine list, it's the most extensive scotch collection I've ever seen. So again, to Jeff, as a cable, is Scots Brother. Yeah.

Fascinating guy, he's got his PhD in immunology. So talking to him about COVID. And just, you know, all the kind of pandemic stuff was interesting, the food, you know, it's all coursed out. The lodging, like where you actually stay, the rooms were the attention to detail in those rooms was mind boggling. It's closer to five star than it was,

three star like band-in, but I mean, and gosh, look at the rates on the website and stuff. Like for a two person stay, it's like, with all that comes with it, it is, to no brainer. It is not expensive compared to what you get out of it, I would say, 100%. So.

It's like, it's probably cheaper than going to Kewa, or like it's cheaper than going to Kewa, or going, you know, somewhere like that, where it's like. And then don't goug on the gat on any of the activities. The only drawback, which is also positive, like it's hard to get to. It's hard to get to, but that's like why you go. And also, yeah, that's what I was gonna say is there's,

I think, what are they called? The Sylvie's Valley Ranch Retreat and Links. It is truly a retreat. It is truly a retreat. It's like every other spot. All the other places that we've gone where it always feels like, oh, this is a nice, like off the beaten path destination. Like there's hundreds of people there, right?

And so you're constantly running into people, and that's cool because it has a nice buzz and energy to it. But I don't think you realize this was kind of the crux of my magazine pieces. I don't think you realize how infrequently you actually do unplug until you go to a place like that, where finally the cell phone doesn't work. You're kind of forced to eat with these random people

that you don't really want to eat with at first, but then you settle in and you start talking to people and you're like, holy shit, this is the most relaxing night I've had in five years and I didn't even realize it. It's just awesome. That's the most present I've been. Yeah, yeah. Epic Fire Pit night and it is very rugged in remote

when you're outside but the best accommodations by far on like the you know there's like a hot tub in the cabin like it like I sat in the hot tub every morning and watched the elk run across the property I mean just couldn't have been nicer it was unbelievable easy to get drunk out there as well especially with Hannah your fiancee sends us a bottle of whiskey. Good lord. And we're actually sitting there arguing

with these people about the courses at Bandit. Yeah, that's the Oregon logo. Which is electric, you have to remember. You gotta tell the story, Randy, of what you said to the person. You know, after we shared some of my, some of my cake with them. Oh, right, right, right.

Yeah, we gave him cake. And I think we've given him some of your, some of the whiskey too. Again, just random people. Yeah, you're just kind of just meat. Well, these were a couple of, these were the parents of two girls that we played with in Oregon.

But we were kind of just jarring back and forth with them. But yeah, we were very friendly. And we had had some contentious debate about band-in. And you know how I stand with Old Mac. I'll defend it. And like their whole table just took a dump on Old Mac, couldn't it fifth? Like, yeah, I don't need to play it.

And I said, I forget exactly what I said. Maybe you do, but I was like, man, we should not have given you any of that cake. And the lady goes, oh! She like clutched her pearls literally. And I was joking, but I really don't know if she knew I was joking. Oh God, that radio relayed that story just.

That was the most jarring drive vector reality. Oh God, I had some anxiety. The whoop, that was not a good day for my whoop. That was just, that was a lot going on 12 days of drinking fun drive We're going, you know Max and out the the the beamer see yeah Horsepower the beamer's there's a fucking cattle drive. Oh, yeah We got stopped for a good about 10 15 minutes just as these these cattle come like that was like I never felt like more of a city slicker

just as these cattle come. I was like, I never felt like more of a city slicker. Yeah. There's the gym, it's rolling by dust flying up. What are BMWs with our Callaway clubs? And yeah, that was, that was, so that's it. That's Taurus saw season six. It is coming to YouTube as of Tuesday, October 6th, 12 episodes, and we are gonna to end this podcast because we got

to go get to work on it. Indeed. Cheers. Cheers guys, that was fun. Thank you for working. Yeah. Be the right club today. Yeah.

That is better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most.