No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 365: Rocco Mediate

Episode Date: October 14, 2020

Rocco! The story telling legend joins the show to talk about the '06 Masters, '08 US Open, dealing with back pain, knowing he didn't have what it took to compete on the PGA Tour, figuring out what it takes, and so much more.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yeah. That is better than most. I'm not in. That is better than most. Better than most. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No Laying Up podcast. We've got a long requested guest finally arriving on today's show. Rocco Media is here to talk of course about the 2008 US Open, but we're going to talk about a lot of other things as well.

Worth noting Rocco, big fan of bio wave. This episode is brought to you by our friends at BioWave. This is a TC special. So he told me that in high school, he used to have bad hip flexors and he would get stem treatment on those, which is basically just shooting electric pulses through the muscle to get it activated,

get blood going. These are the take home version of that. BioWave is a take home version of that. You can use them on the rhomboids and he's been using it on his lower back. He's been had a little trouble thanks to the lefty golf. So a little bit of detail on BioWave. It is FDA-cleared, 100% drug-free.

It is pro-athlete proven and trusted. Pro-athlete himself, Rocco Mediate uses it, as I mentioned. It's for chronic and acute pain and recovery. You can use it to warm up before golf during a round of golf for recovery after treating any kind of acute or chronic pain. And one 30-minute treatment can provide long-lasting pain relief for hours. I'm lucky enough right now, I don't have a lot of pain going on, so I haven't tried this personally, but again, TC is swearing by this.

You may have even heard it going off in beeps on one of the live shows. He uses this sometimes while we are recording. It's made in the USA. It's comfortable and it feels like a deep tissue massage. You can go to biowave.com slash Rocco, use promo code NLU for 15% off. Again, that's biowave.com slash Rocco, use promo code NLU for 15% off. Let's get to our interview with RoccoMedia. I promise I don't want to start here. I want to say this for later, but at least answer this

one for me, as honest as you can. Do you ever get tired of talking about the 2008? No, I don't even get it out. No, I do not. Okay, good. We are going to get there. I promise we're going to build up to it, though, but your game is something I've always had trouble placing, and it might be because I could never, ever, ever make a full golf swing without a golf glove. Right. How did you get into golf? How did you get into golf? What, what, what, where your, your swing looks a little homemade and for people that you know,

No way. No, I got into golf. I didn't like golf when I was a young girl. You know, I grew up in the Greensburg, five miles from Mr. Palmer. And I really didn't know, I knew who he was. I was in my dad's play, he was a nice player. My dad's just retired a couple of years ago. He cut hair for 60 years, 62 years.

But he played every weekend with his buddies right at the street of the course. He played with the Hanna's Town Golf Club, which is, it was a quarter mile from my front door. Nine holes, Now it's 18. It's really nice now, but we played it then. I'd go up and he'd have me caddy for and I get tired. I didn't like it after like two holes. I just say, I'm done and walk home. You know, it's five minute walk. So I didn't really like it. I played baseball. It's skateboarded. Not a skateboarding when we were kids. Believe it or not. I love baseball. It was a reasonable ballpark.

I could always hit a ball with a stick. Always, any ball with any stick, that no matter what it is. And I was always able to hit it. So I was a good hitter in a reasonable pitch. I love baseball, but when I got to high school, I wasn't as good as my arm was messed up because my dad had my dad was on the farm league

for the Pittsburgh Pirates as a pitcher. My dad was good. My dad was really good. And he taught me how to throw a lot of different pitches at 12, 13, and not good for the Pittsburgh Pirates as a picture. My dad was good. My dad was really good. And he taught me how to throw a lot of different pitches at 12, 13 and not good for your arm. So I was a rack doing that. And I wasn't good enough to play in the high-end high school ball. So, but then my, all my buddies started playing golf.

So I went with them. Who knew? Well, 15. Yes, give it a take. Well, it's always so frustrating when you talk to a pro that, you know, has had a lot of success in golf and they tell you how late in the game that they picked it up in their life. And that seems late to me.

And it always seems. It is nowadays, yeah. I've done enough of these interviews. I know the next part is where you zoom to being, you know, on the PGA tour and great at it. So like, how do you get, how do you go from, you know know picking up golf at a later age as far as probably most professional golfers to you know eventually breaking through and then making a professional golf. Well I didn't have any I didn't have any plans to be a professional golfer when I started

playing golf I just like golf and I liked the aspect of solitude really. I like hitting things with with with stick so I had a lot to balls and I was younger, um, thousands of balls a day. I mean, I would just hit them all day. Um, and Jim Feree who who played the PJ tour and earned here in the 60s and then champions tour in Jimmy's 90, 90 now. He would give me my basically one of my first pretty much my first true golf lesson when I was in 1980. When I graduated high school, the first thing he said to my dad was he watched me hit some balls and he goes, you sure you want to spend 50 bucks an hour? Yeah, I was expensive back then.

I said, yeah, he wants to learn to play. And he was, all right, first thing Jim said to me, he goes, son, we laughed about this all the time to go, son, you can, he was looking at my grip because your hands look like two crabs fighting on a stick. We gotta fix that. So he changed my grip to where it is now in 1980. I never moved it a centimeter. That neutral, no leverage, just neutral. And so that's what we started with.

And then my graduation present was lessons with him once every couple of weeks. And I was there pretty much every day for the whole summer. Well, it seems like you, you know, you were an athlete that picked up golf and you had like a dedication to it that it made the, the timeline go somewhat quickly as far as getting, getting good at it, playing in college and then go into the PGA tour that what was the path to the PGA tour like in that day? Did you, you know, after, during college,

after college, did you think that, you know, you would be on the PGA tour for a long time? No, no, no, no. No, no, no. Actually, no chance. I was not a good high school player. I was a mediocre at best college player. I won two events in college and I won the Florida Southern.

My teammates were Janssen, who's one of my dearest friends and Marco Dawson, who's always been a good friend. We had a pretty good team for division two school in Lakeland, Florida. So I got there. I was in California, stayed in Pennsylvania. My freshman year, I didn't decide to go to college until my senior year of high school. It was going to work for my dad and cut hair and sweep hair. You know, I didn't have any plans. So I decided to go to school you know just to go because I'm what you're supposed to. Right? So I went to school and I after about a year and a half, about a year and a year and a half and I was sitting balls up with the football field at Cal State. It was sleeping in 35 degrees and blowing them

you know I'm sick and tired of this crap. So I said to my dad I want to to go to Florida, go to school, excuse me. How are we going to do that? Well, one of our buddies, new coach Matt Locket, Florida's father and a couple phone calls are made. Yeah, bring them down. My grades were, you know, C's basically, but I got into school and I went down there to play and that was the end of that. So I got down there and I got to practice and play every day like all year. There was no winter, obviously, I was down there in the winter. So I got better fast, striking, striking, striking,

striking, striking. I drive up to Hilton at every weekend, well, every other weekend, six hour drive from Lakeland, Hilton at CGM, play at Longve, drive back every other weekend, basically. So I do that throughout two and a half years of school, sort of Southern. It is amazing how, you know, I've lived in Florida enough for three years.

The year round thing, how stark that difference is, like you don't have seasons, like summers where you don't play golf down here. Yeah, right, so it was like, I still, I still, I loved, I wanted to be like Jim. Jim never, well, basically never missed the middle of the face. Never. I mean, we go on flayed hit a pinner to a day. It was ridiculous.

It was ridiculous. So how good this guy was. Still hits a good 90. So I wanted to be him. I use the same grips on, he used a glove, because he didn't use a glove. I used a glove at high school for like a minute. And so I did everything he did, or knickers for a lot for sometimes when I was playing Ammoner events. You know, I got a lot of heat for that, but I didn't care. You know, I did everything he did. I wanted to be him

as far as hitting a golf ball. And he told me something way back then, like in the mid-early 80s when I was in high college, he said, listen to me son. Great strikers will always outlast great parts for a career, they'll outlast them. They're going to get beat up some, but they'll still be there in 30 years. And he was right because this isn't my 35th year in 27 on the PGA tour. And I always, I didn't hit it better I'm not but I hit it solid a lot. So I survived as a good putter, not a great putter, a good putter. Great putters win great big tournaments. Good putters don't. And that was me. So but I survived and I loved what I do. I mean, I never expected to win anything on the PGA tour and I got

there. And the way the only reason I tried tour school was because I didn't want to look back when I was 30 and I went if I was good enough to get on tour. And you made it through first try? Yeah, I did. Yeah. 85. And then that's just what's unbelievable, maybe not

unbelievable, but that path is not there. It's completely unbelievable. Was that a pathis and there? Was that a pathis and there? Was that a pathis and there? Well, six years. I was I've been playing golf for five years. Yeah. Well, six years, six years I was playing golf for Davis. I played with Davis in the qualifying. I had known Davis and you know Davis was one of those college kids.

But he got you still I still do. You just watch him play because he was so good and he hit it so far and so straight because when did you start playing golf? I went and when I was 15 and we were going through tour school together. We made it to the same school in 85 green leaf. And he goes, so let me get this right. You were playing at 15 and now you just got your card at 21. I'm like, yep.

And I had no business. But the problem, the beauty of that is if you get a week, you make it through. But if you don't, you have a year to go do something else. See, it was hard. I think it was way hard, not because I did it. It was way harder, Beth. You didn't have 20 some events to play in.

You had one. Yeah, I hadn't thought it that way, I guess. Yeah, it's breeding good trust me. It's breeding great players now. There's no question. I'm not downplaying what they do now. It's cool how golf's gotten bigger. I'm not downplaying what they do now. It's cool how golf's gotten bigger.

And now the college kids are getting an opportunity. If they play great, they can play some of the tours, which is great. That's what we're doing. It's like a farm system, right? But we didn't have that. And that was okay, because we didn't know that that was gonna ever come.

So we knew once a year, if you played good, you could actually maybe get on the PJ tour. And if you didn't, the game was over for a year. So there was some serious heat. A quick break here to remind you that if you're listening to this episode, that means Taurus sauce, our second episode of season six, the Oregon season is live on our YouTube channel. This episode takes us to the seaside town of Geerhart to an 1892 golf course.

They claim to be the oldest golf course west of the Mississippi. TC went up here last year and came back and told us we had to make it back. And we did. It's an awesome episode. Really excited people to see us go ahead and check that out. The season is brought to you by our friends at precision pro at every course in the great state of Oregon. We used our Precision Pro NX-9 slope range finders guiding us to the greens.

I love the NX-9. It has got a crystal clear image in it. It got a very kind of satisfying vibration when you gun the flag or gun. It's really good at gunning whatever you want to gun. It gets slopes, it gets trees, it gets bunkers, anything you want. The sea sweet, strap boys, and the dark. We all trust Precision Pro Golf to get slopes, it gets trees, it gets bunkers, anything you want. The sea sweet, strat boys, and the NARC, we all trust precision pro golf to get us there. So go in head to precisionprogolf.com. Use promo code no laying up at checkout for $20 off.

Our favorite range finder, the NX9 slope. Swing with confidence, hit more greens with precision pro golf. Get to the YouTube channel. Once you're done with this podcast episode, cheers. You get out to the PJ tour, you know, how do you feel, you know, walking down the range? What do you go? Oh, no, this is a great, no, this is perfect story because you just left the intro. I might have known the answer to this. I might have led you right into it. Well, I get my tour card in December of 85. I'm, I'm about turn 22 in December 17.

And I'm a PJ tour player now. I am the greatest player in the history of golf already. I haven't hit a shot in the PJ tour. I got my card. I am, it's just ridiculous how you feel, right? I'm like, on the PJ tour. So my first event is Pebble Beach, 18T. That was the first year 18T took it over in 86.

And I go out there and I get off the air playing with my little vinyl PJ tour briefcase that give us at tour school and I get out there and I said to my caddy I want now I'm going to go and walk up and down the range. That was at the polo fields, you know, they didn't have the range like they do now. I said I'll be back in like half hour. Why I walked up and down the range and I watched Norman and Watson, who's my idol still is And I watched Norman and Watson who's my idol still is Nicholas Turvino Floyd Wadkins and as I walked by all these guys I'm like now I can't do that and I go over the other guy not certainly can't do that and I keep walking up And down I couldn't find anything that they did that I can do I did a shot yet

So Rick Smith who's still work with as a teacher, I go inside and I get on the phone and I call him. I need a shot. I need to hit a warm-up shot. And by the way, it was three hours later. I was like, what the hell, where are you? I don't understand, anyway. I go in and I call Rick.

Yeah, Rick is rock. Yeah, I know everything's here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, no, I've been up and down the range. I have no chance, none None to survive on here. We have to change everything now. I'd hit a shot because I watch what these guys, these great players did. And I'm like, I got nothing compared to these guys. Nothing. That's why, you know, so I took it that way to where I, this is going to be a learning year. 99% chance I'm not going to have my card at dinner here.

I knew it before I hit a shot. I was going to say was that accurate or were you psyching yourself out? 100% accurate. Okay, because you went and changed things from there and got infinitely better. Well, we really didn't start them because Rick's, you know, back then he didn't travel as much and I was out there. I make the cut. It probably to my forehead. I was out there. I make the cut

they probably reach my four. I don't know how I made the cut then they rained out Sunday because the worst storm ever came. Fuzzy ended up winning that tournament. But um, so as the as you know, then I started we started nice change and change and change and the homemade thing he saw is what we built to last. Very different, very athletic, very much motion back to the right up to the left. We started that in 86. People laughed at us. They laughed. What's he doing? He's moving his head really? No shit. Move my head. I'm gonna move it forever back to and back and up, just like any other athlete does. So that's how I started. I knew it. I had no prayer. And as the year went, I missed the next cut I made was May. May. That was January when I went out the couple. I kept grinding. And I made the last seven cuts of the year. Finish like 30th, 50th, last made every cut coming in. And I have to go back to tour school totally new I was finished third and the story. At this point, you're you're you have the confidence to say I can do things

out here on the door. I knew I had a chance because now all of a sudden I can make my ball go where I was looking with a little more authority and the little different curve. I went from a high a soft kind of weak fade to a draw. It changed the whole ball of wax. And so where in the timeline, this might be jumping too far ahead here, but where in the timeline do back injuries start to play a role in your career?

No, no, the only thing reason I hurt my back is in 93, I pulled the clubs out of the car of the wrong land, that was the end of that. Not golf swing, not a catastasia, just pulled the clubs out boom, I felt it, and I went, oh, and about three months later, it was the end of the game, boom I felt it and I went oh and about three months later it was the end of the game and the year later I had surgery. So that was all because of that and nothing nothing weird happened really just you know

tell you how you do it. And it's something you're still dealing with to this day did it ever it got better it got worse a lot. It's absolutely perfect now I'm so I'm in such I'm in some so fit now. It's stupid. I am I'm high school weight now 170 pounds. I'm 170 pounds in four years. Hmm. All right. You told a great story And I listened to your your interview on the club club pro guy pro podcast as I was there for this You told a story about playing in the US open a bit unexpectedly in 94 and the reason why you ended up playing in that and maybe you weren't planning to and how that may have also

set you back a little bit of money if you could relay that story. Yeah, I was at the USJ call and I don't remember what month it was, but I was, that was 94. I was bad. I played it Tucson. I played actually pretty good at Tucson, but I was a mess. You know, I hadn't had the surgery yet, and I was trying to not have the surgery. And I wasn't in great shape, and I was decent.

Now, I just, I was decent at best, actually. I just won a 93 at Greensboro. So I had an exemption, and I was just, you know, I tried to play a 94 some, and I get a call, I'm exempt for the US Open, so I get a call, and I figured who, US Open, so I get a call and I figured who I don't know if it was Tom Meeks, I'm not sure I remember who called. He said, hey, we're going to pair you with Mr. Palmer in his last open because you both are from here in the next 30

minutes away, blah, blah, blah, excuse me. He goes, yeah, you're still going to play. I went, oh, I'll be there. It was, and I went and played Westchester, made the cut some, I have no idea, because I couldn't walk hardly. It was joke. And I get to Okamont, how, you know, I'm 30 minutes from 35 minutes where I grew up. And I got the boss playing with the boss. It was remarkable. After 27 holes, I was like, two out of the lead with him. It was crazy. It was a mess, though. I was just putting together a mess. That's what I was doing, because I couldn't hardly do anything. I remember he said to me, we're coming to the 35th hole and he played great those two days. He should have made the cut. He put it just terrible. He played good enough to make the cut. It was remarkable what he did. We come to 17 and I hit a four on off the team.

And he kind of will walk up and he goes, well, what did you do that for? I said, because I can't hardly swing my driver. He had no idea what was going on. I never said a word to him. He was, what do you mean? I said, I'll tell you someday. And anyway, I said, but coming out the last, it was the most coolest thing ever, ever engulfed.

But cooler than no, wait, just that one whole playing with him and the whole world stopped. he you know, we it was unbelievable Well, because you guys had a relationship, you know Prior to that go dating back and and you know kind of yeah, how did that? Yeah, tell it can you tell us about like meeting the king and what that was like for a nineteen year ago? Yeah, I had I had buddies. I played at Greensburg Country Club, which is about five six months from a show And I had buddy Chris Adams, Danny Bonard, dear friends, taught me how to gamble

and I'm gonna golf course and stuff. And we had a great time, they're really good, the guys, still good guys. And they always promised me to play with Mr. Palmer. And I was very, very, very, very shy. I mean, I couldn't even look up, I was so shy. Some bought the tee off with my buddies at Greensburg and I get a call on the pro shop and Gloria that my few signatures, uh, wife who's, uh, who's our head pro. So yeah, um, Chris Adams, I said, yeah,

I, I, I, I, I, I got a game at the show. You got to come out. It's big money. You can make some money for yourself, blah, blah, you're playing with me. Well, there's no, I had no, they didn't say anything about Mr. Palmer. So I looked at David Lucas. I went, Dave, I'm playing with me. Well, there's no, I had no, they didn't say anything about Mr. Palmer. So I looked at David Lucas, I went, Dave, I'm outta here. He goes, what? I said, I gotta go. I just blew my body. So, because it was a money, right? I'm 19, so I go, I'm gonna go play with these guys. I think Dave still mad at me for that.

But so I get out there and you go, I park, you know, it's 12-minute ride. I drive out, drive out there and you boom, pulling the drum, get out, clubs on the back, walking around and you go around the corner by the pro shop in the locker room. The first tee, there's a putting green and I walk around the corner and I see him hitting balls on the first tee. There's no range left turn. He'd take a shag back, it balls and warm up and guys would pick him up. We go play, he, you know, he go play. He'd take a shag back. It falls warm up and guys would pick him up. We go play. He got play

Was I walk around the corner and see him? I'm about 99% sure I'm gonna turn around and leave Because I know what's happening one Fortunately or fortunately for me Dan to go say rock come on over here. He sees me. I'm like oh shit So I walk over now. I'm not I can't talk Because I don't want to play because I'm gonna barist, I just don't want to do this. But I have to now. Because he sees me.

Mr. Palmer doesn't see me, because he's never met me. So I walk over and they introduce me to him. And from that moment on, it felt like he was my father. And he was basically like a second dad to me, especially over the years. He really did a lot for me and not even in golf just as a person. I've tried to listen to most of it. And then we played. And I remember I shot 69. He shot 70 and I got I took 20 bucks from him and it was the greatest day ever. He was not happy. He was not happy. $20 bill. No, I didn't. I have it. Okay.

Good. But he just was very complimentary, told me some things. You know, I still wasn't thinking about being a professional, but he was very cool that day and very complimentary. I was nervous and that we had a really good time. It's just it was one. It was great. And then we played a lot. I played hundreds of times with them over the years. I was going to say it is amazing. The people hundreds of times for the moment of the year. Well, it's gonna say, it is amazing the people that were close to him or even the people that were not close to him that all will just speak to how,

if he was talking to you, you felt like the most important person in the world. Somehow, everyone has this story. And I was curious to get your perspective on that and how you saw him treat other people and how he was able to build this legend. So he tried to teach me and he did. I mean, I became, you have to look people in the eye son,

you have to look people in the eye. So I learned to do that. Took a while. Because if I'd look at you, I wouldn't be looking you in the eyes, I was too embarrassed, I was too shy. So he taught me that, I did that. He goes, and you also have to do this.

When someone comes out and you're in a, you know, this is, this is later when I got my card and everything. And he said, when someone comes out and they're watching you, and they say something to you, give them something back for their money. Don't blow them off. I don't give a shit if it's the last run of the tournament. I don't care. One, it is. Say, hi here? Why you watching me? I say this why you watching me? There's plenty of better players I want you to meet I give them a bunch of crap and he said give them something back for their money It's all you got to do. It's not hard So because they're he said if they're foolish enough to pay money to what you play you better give them something for He would just kill me busted my butt all the time.

But he was tough, he was tough as nails, and he made you a better person. But I've tried to do that my whole career. And have I been perfect? Absolutely not. But I've been as good as I could be with people and talking to them. That doesn't matter what it is.

And so that's one of the main things. Because we're in an entertainment business. We're making a living, of course, but people could touch you. It's not like they're in stands, mostly. You can walk around with you and they want to know. It's okay. It's okay. And a lot of guys don't like that. And that's fine too, but nowadays, it's a little different, but it shouldn't be because it's the same game. Well, all right, I'm ready to talk about a close call. You had a major championship, some heart breaks, some tough breaks, of course. Your mind immediately goes to the 2006 masters, of course, right? Yeah, I'll go. I'm a good lord. Oh, my god. That was a bad one. I think people,

you know, remember that year for Phil, and you made a very, very, very serious run despite dealing with some major back issues that week, I believe. So take us to that week, kind of what unfolded there on that Sunday and through that week. Well, I had a bunch of my buddies with me to be replaying, and I was still not good.

I was still hurting pretty good in O6. And I was in really good shape too then. I really got myself back to playing order. And I'd finished fifth in the US Open at fifth or sixth at Pinehurst year before that's how I got into the Masters. It was like, what's he doing here? He said, well, he earned his way in. I had to look up how you got in, actually.

Yeah, exactly. I earned my way. And I had a chance to win at Pine in, actually. Yeah, exactly. I earned my weigh-in. I had a chance to win at Pynars. I mean, Toggin, I played last round there, too. I shot 71, he shot 70. I loved playing with that guy. I loved playing with him because you had to come with it, obviously. So I played really good that week.

I had decent, and I've still hurt in the whole time. I was piecing it together. Then in 2006, I get to Augusta and I love the Goss, they hadn't made it 12,000 yards long yet. There was only about 8,000 yards long then. But so yeah, I started to play good. I was putting it good. I was driving good and I was hitting a lot of good

iron shots, but I was hurting bad. And it was cool, really cool that year. You know, coming to Saturday, I was right there. I was like tied for the lead going to 15 or I was right around the lead. I don't remember. I was right around the lead somewhere. I drove perfect. I got a three iron in my hand. Perfect shot. Slight hook lie to a back left pin. It was absolutely. If you can say this, the easiest three iron you shot you've ever seen, because I liked it in three-iron. I didn't care. I loved it, especially this little hook-ly

downhill kind of sitting up a little bit. It was perfect. And when I took the, I was going to hit this big high sweeping hook into that back left pin. And I was ready and I was playing good. I had no, I didn't even see the water. That's how good I felt. I'm laughing because if you stand in that fair way that looks like an island green. It looks like an island green. But it just was one of those things. You're like, Oh my God, it was the perfect number. I mean, I couldn't screw it up. I couldn't screw it up because I had a lot of cloth in my hand, but I was going to tie, we're going to curve it 30 yards. So it's not a big deal,

because that back then you could actually curve it 30 yards if you wanted to. I was going to land at middle of green and whatever happened. I didn't care if it went to the whole fine. I went a little long fine. It didn't matter. One coming up short. It was a perfect club. Well, I took it back. I remember taking it back and as soon as I changed transition when that split second, she went. Right foot went straight backwards. I hit a foot behind it. Maybe more. The club bounced into the ball and the ball came up short of the water. Think about that for just a second. It went about 90 yards, 100 yards. Now I'm on my right knee, I'm going, what just, you know, I knew what happened, it's happened before. But I mean, everybody sees me.

How am I going to fit it? How am I going to get in? So I remember kind of getting down to the hole, getting down to my second, third shot, which was in the rough, well, I guess you'd say rough, the higher grass in the fairway there. Second cut, be careful, yeah. Yeah, I was only like 70 yards to the hole. Why hit a nine iron? I just took a nine iron and chipped it

and onto the backs for engine two putter for par and got in, I double bugged the last hole, I couldn't finish. I had a five wood in, hit in the front bunker, couldn't, anyway, blocks very short. And I still parred 16, I parred 17, I double bugged 18. And I was like a few back of the lead, but this was all one day, we had to finish. part 17, I double book 18. And I was like a few back of the lead, but this was all one day, we had to finish. That was this was Sunday,

because we had to finish the third round Sunday. So I did the fitness trail and I went, what help? Can you get me five more hours and I kind of start laughing? And like, I don't know. I mean, I mean, I couldn't, I literally couldn't walk. I couldn't put any stress on the right foot on my right side, because the right side was where the surgery was.

So anyway, I go out warm up, I warm up a little bit, it's the new afternoon now, and I come out and I'm like, I'm playing literally perfect golf. Perfect golf. A couple under par coming down nine. And as I think then I was either around the lead. I don't think I was leading. I think I was right there.

But still, and the guys are like four holes behind me. Yeah, you birdied six, seven, and eight coming into that. There you go. There you go. See, I knew I did something stupid, right? So I come to nine and I drive perfect. And you know nine, you stand on on your head middle of the fairway both below your feet you had about a 9000 degree angle straight down shooting up at this

green I got eight on my hand and Brandon's getting for my buddy from home and I said B if I hit this like I want we could be done here because I got to get down on this thing because it's an eight iron and I got to get it up in the air and I got to and it depends on that front left pin. Do you know what happens now? Oh, yeah. There you go. Okay. So I hit this A-dion and I hit it right, perfect.

It's right at the flag, but I'm on my knees again. I'm on the ground. And Brandon's looking up. The small flies in the hole. It flies in the hole. Comes back out, goes down, comes off the green, goes down around the bunker, short of the green, dead. I'm still on my knees going, you got to be kidding. How am I going to pitch it to like three feet, make part? So it's not even, I'm

winning the tournament. I'm going to win this tournament now. Anything but that result is what you needed. Yeah. It's, yeah, it's, it's, I'm, I'm gonna win this tournament now. Anything but that result is what you needed. Yeah, it's, yeah, it's, I'm, it's, I'm, I'm gonna take this thing apart and stuff. I'm gonna, if I can do this, I'm gonna do this. I go 10, I par 10. Remember, I hit a driver laid up with a forearm just on the front edge, pitch its dough foot. 11, I drive perfect, hit it just to the right of the green.

Don't get that one up and down. Hit a really pretty pitch. It's about a four footer, lip it out. So I'm on to 12 and I'm okay, I'm just get this ball somewhere left to the flag, who cares, make three or four and let's get the hell out of this hole and let's go. Well, here we go again, so I'm over it, just an eight iron, it's an easy eight iron shot, smooth eight, you're going to hit a left to the flag, well, same thing. Got it back, I've I've watched this shot. I haven't watched it years But after they're after I'd watch and see because we were trying to fix this back or seeing what was causing it

And as soon as I made the transition it happened again Right side went backwards because it wouldn't let it go and I just I almost caught I hit it about a groove low Just a groove pretty looking shot Right up until it about a groove low, just a groove, pretty looking shot right up until I hit about a yard short of the front fringe. Then it wasn't pretty. And I knew it, you know, and, you know, people can say what they want, but my body failed. Yeah, it looked like you were trying to save it almost. I watched the song again.

Oh, I tried to, oh, I tried to, I tried to, I almost did. It was a two yards from being okay. Actually, it was two yards from being stiff. But I wasn't aiming there. See, that's what would happen. It would, the club would fall down, get underneath it, get under, Rick and I called it get under a little bit

and I'd kinda wipe it to the right. But this one, I got pretty good, but it was too late. And then I made monumental mistakes after that because now I couldn't move and I made a mistake on the drop I learned that later on that I could have dropped that ball up way up there and just pitched it up over And made a five right not 10 to five No, or four maybe four, but I dropped it back at 60 or 70 yards

You know where you're supposed to drop it back apparently, but it apparently it wasn't. And I almost ran out of balls. Because I couldn't get the ball to go. I couldn't hit it. I kept hitting behind it, behind it, behind it, behind it, but just they were going into the middle of the lake. They didn't even hit the bank. So anyway, my life had two balls left.

I said, be on my balls. I was starting to, because you know, it was so sad. I was playing with Miguel, and he was in tears when we finished. Because he saw what happened. I somehow parred the next five, anyway, I hit it on the ground, I make 10, make about a six foot of a 10. So now we're done, right?

It's over. So I get in, I might even have birdied 13. I don't remember. You parred 13, you bogeed 14, bogeed 18, and parred the rest. Okay, so that was pretty good for me. It's that 80, I don't remember. You parred 13, you bogeyed 14, bogeyed 18, and parred the rest. Okay, so that was pretty good for me. It's that 80, I think. Yep.

So yeah, that was one of the worst, but anyway, so I get done, and here's what I get done, and they're under the tree, right? You know, I was under the tree waiting for them, because I want to see you hear about the car rack, because I had a major car accident out there. So they want to talk about the car accident.

So I get up there and go, here we go. So I said, guys, I only have one question for you. Then you can take me apart. What's that? What's the highest score ever made on 12? And they said, 12, I went, so I did all that. I don't even have a record here. They lost their minds.

They brought the ground laughing. It was really funny actually, because I was like, what else am I going to say? Yeah. I'd like to say I got up there and choked my guts out and fatted it in the lake. Why didn't my body failed? And unfortunately, it failed.

I'd rather it have failed on Thursday, and I missed the cut. You know what I mean? Well, it's like, yeah, you wouldn't have been out there playing in a normal circumstances, right? But you're in it. You're like, I'm not as I mean? Well, it's like, yeah, you wouldn't have been out there playing in a normal circumstances, right? But you're in it. You're like, I'm not as well finished. Yeah, it was so much fun because I felt that if I could just stay upright, I could

have a chance and I was I going to win probably not. But in my head, I'm like, you know, if I can keep doing this crazy stuff that I'm doing, I can beat these guys today. And you know, obviously obviously I'll never know. Well, what amazes me? This is on your Wikipedia page at least, but between 06 and obviously we have 08, the US open, but you worked for golf channel in 2007 in between that. Yeah, 2007.

I worked for three weeks. Just didn't the decided you wanted to keep playing. What was your thinking going into broadcasting? Well, because I was hurt. Okay. So, you know, they asked me and I said, I'll try it. By the way, it's way harder than people think. Yeah.

On course stuff. And I was with Rawl thing as the greatest. I mean, we had such a good time for those three weeks, but I'm calling these shots before these kids are hitting them because they're my, I'm still like, they're still my guys. I know exactly what they're going to do before they do it. And on the golf with capitol

I've played there I played there a million times but I always played good at capitol and the next week at Why lie I always love why I knew it was going on When I told Faldo that Gordos was going to win on Saturday and he laughed at me because what I said just watch him dry it tomorrow And he did he won I knew it was going on, but I also knew that if I'm healthy I can do the same thing. They're doing I'm not even concerned My career wasn't over, but sometimes you feel like it is You know what I mean sometimes you're like oh my god. I can't do this. This is ridiculous You know and every I'm not the only one obviously a lot of us have suffered from it golf the freaky sport

When you stand in sideways, been over with a crooked stick, trying to hit a ball that's looking at, well, come on, let's go. Come on, make me go where you're looking. And either, there's so much weird stuff going on. And my golf swing over 30 years has been very non-confrontational for my body. I have no, nothing weird happens.

It's a very simple big motion. There's not a lot of tilt, there's not a lot of, you know, crazy stuff happening. Don't hit the ground much. You know, one of those things. So, one of the golf swing issues, just back was no good for a while. Now, fast forwarding to the, the, the crescendo, if you will. I want to set the scene prior, prior to the US Open. What was your relationship with Tiger Lake?

Had you gone toe to toe with him prior to that and then kind of did you have a good first experience with him? Tell me about it. Well, Tiger, I lived at TPC and from 93 to 93 to 2005, 10 or 12, whatever it was. I don't remember what it was. A lot of years.

When Tiger won the amateur at TPC, I went out and watched. No one saw me. He didn't see me. he didn't know how I was But I watched him play and I remember going out to the tour going boys Something's common and you ain't gonna like it And this is what I mean, you know, is it he's gonna? It was that obvious. Oh, oh, there was a ridiculous. It was stupid. How good this kid was You obviously I call him a kid because he is a kid still to me. But I met him in 96. We played, I think we played a little bit at the rhythm. I think it

was a little bit, I met his dad and I fell in love with his dad. His dad was just like, here's what he's going to do, here's what he does, it's the way it's going to be. And you look at him going like, what? But I'm like, yeah, I can see that. Yep, I can see that happen, because he's a once in a lifetime player. Okay, and you could see that when he was 20. You could see that, obviously,

what he did in Augusta in 1997. But yeah, so I knew him. I, we weren't close, I knew him. I was, I tried to help him a little bit, and not that I could help, but I was nice to him. I liked how you're, I still do. And then in 99, I'm coming out, you know,

I have, I got my card back. I lost my, I didn't really lose my card, I just couldn't play. But I'm still exempt, and I got my exemption back in 96, 16X, I finished third or fourth, and got my card back. I had like two, like five events to get my car back I got it back the first event which is good because I didn't have anything no no pressure so I was back Then 99 in Phoenix. Phoenix was a big deal a lot of good things happen there. Um

I get there and I'm playing good. I'm in really good shape. Worked hard in the winter and back is good as it's gonna be and it feels good And I go out and I'm leaving the golf tournament after the first two rounds. And I get paired with the man, the third round. And I went out and shot 65, caught him seven shots, playing with him. So I have a six shot lead going to Sunday. And he's in the same group again. Because on the last toll, we finished on nine. We had to start on 10 because he's in the group and they need him on TV. How about that?

Which is cool. We had fog delays. It doesn't happen. I mean, if it was me, it just me, we wouldn't have started on nine. I mean, on 10. So we're coming up nine and I'm like six or I'm I shut 60. I shut 65 600 on on Saturday. And I hit it in the front bunker on nine,

he'd pitch it out of foot. He's got a eight footer to get in the last group on Sunday. Well, I want to play with him on Sunday because I must be crazy, right? I'm completely off my off my off my off. So I walked by before I said knock this in, let's play tomorrow just like that. I said knock this in let's play tomorrow Just like that Not a knock this in I want your ass tomorrow. I said knock into this play tomorrow

Well Apparently, I don't know if I don't think it made a mad, but it he at he hit it And about three feet short he looked over he goes you got me right in the middle right? What the fuck did I just say? I mean, it was a nice, I want to play with him tomorrow. I didn't want to, I didn't say I'm going to kick your ass tomorrow. I want to play with you tomorrow. So, no, so he, we say, can, is nothing said, right?

And I'm like, what? I didn't say anything wrong. It was kind of a fun, I want to play with you tomorrow, not get it. That's what I'd say to you if you were on the last screen, right? Well, now I can't sleep. Ha, ha, ha. Now, mind you, I got a six shot lead. It's not like a one shot lead. I got a six shot lead.

For me to lose has to be something catastrophic has to happen to me. Okay? Because I'm playing too good to shoot a bad score. So now I get there like eight hours before the tea time. Sitting in a locker room, I'm getting ready to go and I find a good op, go out, go out on the range and Pete Bender, who's one of the greatest caddies in the history of our sport, says to me, goes, what's your plan today, kid? Because I only have one plan, Pete.

Because what's that? So if I hit 14 fairways and 18 greens, he can beat me. And I hit like 13 and 16 greens he can beat me. And I like 13 and 16 can beat me shot 70. Okay, he shot 67 or eight or not, and it's not 69. I'm a beaten by three or four and Justin Leonard had a hot round and he I'm going to beat him by two, but no, it was it was, but then you saw what it was about. The crowds were remarkable that day.

I'm Sunday. You know, Phoenix is crazy as it is. Well, that's still on the top grossing people showing up days in the history of that event. That was 21 years ago. So he brings it and and he was great. He was, you know, I played really good. I mean, I hit it, hit it good.

I didn't make anything the last day because I just didn't. But people were all over me. You're gonna choke like everybody else does. And he had to stop me from going after guys twice. Really? He stopped me. That's dude, dude. Get it done out here.

Stop it. Leave him alone. And this is, he's telling me this. That's the kind of guy, know he's like let's go. We're gonna we're gonna be meeting me. Let's do it out here. No, not to go kill him. You know, so yeah, it was really cool. So anyway, I get done. I finish. I win the golf tournament. Tap on an AT and he comes up to me and he says this. He says congratulations. Good to see you back. See, so why, how did he know what I've gone through?

Because you had gone through five years of ventures. Yeah, hell, yeah. But he knew something. But the fact that he said that, it didn't matter why I said it. The fact that he said it was unbelievable to me. I'm not, I'd never forgot that. So, but so playing against him and winning that those, like I said, if I play Tiger 10 days in a row when I was playing on the PGA tour, he's gonna beat me nine. It always seemed like to me with Tiger that he genuinely appreciated when somebody

gave him a great run in talent. Yeah, and you're darn right, you do. Yeah. And it, you almost just went up a notch in his book by being able to, you know, give him a great run in talent. You're darn right. Yeah. And you almost just went up a notch in his book by being able to give him a good run or even beat you. It just was kind of like, you know what? It wasn't like he got bitter if he got beat by somebody. No, no, no.

He was like that jack was. If he lost, he was gracious. If he won, he was gracious. I mean, obviously, everybody's happier when they win But but the point was I want toe to toe against the number one player in the world for two straight rays in front of four billion people at this golf course in one So that was good And then you could so are you pulling on that then in 2008 like everyone else again in this time period is Yeah, and I played with him a bunch before that. And I've always played good with him.

I always played good with him because I like the noise. I didn't care. People were moving. I didn't tell people to stop. I didn't go. Oh my God. Look at these people. They was I didn't care. I didn't care. I like noise. It didn't bother me one single bit. And a lot of people said, Oh my God, what tiger brings I can't deal with Guess what you're gonna lose Because he brings it not only does he bring it with a game But people come to watch the greatest plan in the world. I watch him when I play with him

Okay, I'm not not paying attention I'm just gonna stick them on game and not watch him. That's horse shit. It's horse shit. Okay, it is You pay attention to what's going on. I do. Not that I was anything special, but I never, like, it never scared me because I always expected the unexpected with him. Phil's the same way.

You know, you always expect them to do things that you're not supposed to do because they are the greatest players that ever lived. We are just players. It's very simple. So going into the US Open, I was playing good. You know, I played good at Memorial, finished fifth or six at Memorial, and I was playing good. I was driving a good US Open. You got to drive a good. Well, I'm both of us still. Some guys that don't still win that year, but anyway. I said, don't still win that year, but anyway. And he knows exactly what I'm talking about. But so I knew I was playing good,

that I know I was gonna be in contention. I thought I could play good there, because I liked Tori because it was firm. You know, it was a mile long, it was miles long, but it was firm, so I could play fine there. Because we drive in a fairly long role. And I drove it a lot of fairly,

and I think I drove in most of the fairly ways that we could. I was up there in the stats. I don't know what exactly I was, but I was probably in the top. I might have been leading a lot of the hitting stats. We'll call them. So as the week played out, I saw what was happening. I was playing good and I don't think I ever got over par in the event. I don't think I ever got over par.

Well, when you think back on that week, and I had this question down and now it kind of seems kind of silly with the enthusiasm you talk about it, but we think back on it or get asked about it, is it happy memories? 100% happy. Good. Yeah. 100% happy because I say this a lot of people ask the same question. Sometimes US open playoffs or US Open finishes will say, even if it's not a plaque, because there hasn't been many plaques. There will never be another one to give basically like this, as far as 18 holes.

He can either make somebody or destroy their career, depending on what happens. Now, if I would have came up to the last hole in regulation and made a seven from middle of fairway and ended up losing by one to him, that could ruin the career forever. But that didn't happen. He made an amazing birdie and he got in the, you know, we tied. So okay, that's fine. Yeah, what I like, I hit a putt on 17 on Sunday that I can't, I just hit it a little too hard.

So, number telling Matthew, I said, if this goes in, we're done here. It's over. And I hit it just a breath too hard and caught the, anyway, it was a really good fight. If that goes in, we're done. But I didn't, but I knew I had the chance, couple times. And on Sunday, I had a chance, I had the chance on Sunday and last whole, which is all you can ask for. But that day was, everybody in the press room, if you go back and look at that press room thing,

it was pretty funny because everybody's wanting to know how I'm not gonna get embarrassed. You're a hundred million rank player in the world, he's number one player in the world. You are 150 years old. He's 30 years old. You, unlike guys, I've had enough here. I said, I'm just going to tell you, he was standing there waiting to come in after me. And I said, I'm going to tell you something right now.

We're going to give you a show tomorrow that I can tell you. I said, I don't know what's going to happen, but I'll be there at nine o'clock So the people are they act like you can't get into first of all you can't almost win the open on Sunday and get into a playoff on Monday Because you got lucky Yeah, you're it's not you've proven you can compete with them. It's not like you can't last a month. Yeah. Thomas asked questions, but you know, and that's just, you know, it, so it was like, I know for a fact that I'm better through the air than pretty much the field this week. So that's a huge advantage. So when I woke up on Monday morning, I knew for a fact in my heart, he ain't going to

beat me. It's not going to happen because I'm. Because I'm driving it too straight. I'm hitting on the greens a lot. Puttin' okay. Actually, I didn't really put that. I'm honestly, if you look at some of the ones I missed all week, it was, well, everybody did, but my point is, when I woke up,

there's no question my mind was gonna win this golf term. Well, none. Did he feel, did it feel, for somebody that had gone through so many injuries like you had, and you can see the entries that he's dealing with, did that help, did that make him feel any more vulnerable to you? Do you know, was it like, I know I'm going up against Tiger, but this is not 100% tight now. A vulnerable one that you play this man.

The only thing I knew would be vulnerable to him was the fairway. If I keep it in fairways in green, it's going to, I don't care who you are. It's like, what, really? If I keep doing that and the US open, that brings home the silverware used to. OK? But so I, there was no, I felt no, I expected no weakness from him.

And if you notice, if, you know, one thing no one noticed, I did the last day in the playoffs, there was no fist pumps. He had ample opportunities for them, not one, not one. Go back and look at it. Any reason for that? I don't know the reason. We haven't, Tiger and I've never sat down and talked about it,

which makes me sad. That's crazy. I'm just going to talk a couple of times with it and then someday I just laugh and go, what were you thinking about there? I mean, come on, on can't make that again So you know, I want to you buses balls a little bit, but it's not gonna happen, but What was the question before I

I'm losing track. I'm getting so lost in this story. It's good But that to that point I want to go on that like you guys have never what your relationship has been like since then you guys have never I know there's the the autograph story oh you're oh yeah you asked why the fist punch yeah I think this is what I think I think he knew that I knew that he knew that I did not care that it was him I he didn't have an advantage because it was him when I played with him that day. There was no advantage. He just had to advance because he's better. You see, and that's okay to admit too. Guys are like, well, I didn't play. No, he's better. Okay. The greatest

part in the world is better than all of you. And still is, by the way, just saying. So, if you look at that, I didn't care that it was him, but I was so happy it was. Because I wanted, before that open, I'm gonna tell him some of the people I was around, after Phoenix, that was about 10, 11, whatever, nine years before, right? Now yeah, I wanted one more shot at him in any tournament,

just before I'm done, because I'm 45, you know, I'm 45 at the time. I want one more shot and see if I can do this again. You know, and I got it, I got the shot. I didn't want anybody else. I was glad I was just him and I, Westwood had a plethora. He just missed.

I was happy that I had this chance. Yeah, that I want to win. Of course, I tried my ass off on Sunday. I mean, I would be ridiculous. I'd never been in that situation. It was so much fun. It couldn't stand it. Couldn't feel anything nervous.

Shots kept coming off. Most of them. But so I was ecstatic that I got a chance in front of the world. Couldn't hide, you know, here we go. Yeah, God. The only thing I thought about Monday morning was how in the blessed heart of Christ, can I drive my ball in this first fairway again?

Because I drove it. I pretty much every day. And I hit I was up first and I hit it right down the middle of the fair one. Okay, we're okay now. So I want to unpack this what you just said that you couldn't feel anything like your body was just you were just riding on a high and the nerves were there. No, I was just reacting. I was just reacting.

I was going through my routine that I had, which is simple, it's a quick one. And I was trusting what I was doing. I didn't remember some of the shots I hit on Sunday. I, you know, the shot I hit into 17. It was one of the prettiest seven times I've ever hit to this day ever. I'm probably ever will be.

I looked up and I went, good, Lord and heaven, look at this one. You know, it was so nervy. It was just so much fun. I wish I could do. And those guys do it every, you know, way more than I do. I do it every so often. They do it all the time. It's amazing.

Is there anything, I'm kind of aiming for some things that you may not have told over the years. But was there anything that Tiger said at any point Saturday, Sunday, Monday that you found you've, you know, is etched in your memory? Anything he said to you that was just kind of like, wow, I don't know. I'm looking for something there that, you know, may have gotten lost to history. No, he didn't say, no, we talk when we play, I remember he had his t-shirt You played the first hole like seven over something stupid right crazy that he's still and that he's still here I remember he hit it kind of hit it. I didn't hit it terrible But you kind of blocked it to the right of course because he hit it 50,000 yards left every other day

And it hit off the right left edge of the right bunker and kick back in the fairway I remember I looked back on oh sure today you driving We lost it. He's laughing his ass off. You see that in the thing. Because it's just another round of golf. It's the biggest, it's the most prized thing and my, you know, is the most cherished thing I would ever wanted. I'm sure that he's still the same way. But it's just another round of golf. We're going to go on try to kill each other and try to show the world how good we can play. That's what we're trying to do and what they I wanted to ask you is on the

91st hole the the the last hole He's got a he's got a put to win and he misses just short and they cut to you and you're laughing before you hit your put It what was the reasoning behind that laugh if there's one because because I thought he won the tournament right there You know now I got to make this 15 footer to tie. And I really thought I was going to make it. I'm like, all right, I'll say I'll do some pace and it's going to go in. Because I wanted to keep playing.

It was too much fun. I want to still be playing that event. You know, but I hit the tee shot. I blinked. I blinked first. And everyone said, well, why did I pick seven? Is a dog like right? Had nothing to do with it.

Mike Thomas picked seven, six months before that, because it's right by 18. Okay, and there's not going to be a 19th hole in a, it's not going to happen. Okay, but so I blinked. I tried to hold it off that bunker and didn't. I didn't try to hook it to the right, like I usually do. I was trying to hit it inside that bunker

and by the fall of the right, it didn't. And it got in a bad place because I hit it in a to the right like I usually do. I was trying to hit it inside that bunker, but it followed the right. It didn't. And it got in a bad place because I hit it in a bad place. And then I was dead. Then I had a pretty good pitch. I, you know, I didn't stand. I couldn't get it over the lip. I was just right. If it's a foot to the right, I might could have got it on the green,

but it wasn't. And I had nothing. I mean, not with the six iron. It was an eight iron. I had, but I had six iron. So I couldn't, and I, and I hit it there, dropped it. And I had a pretty good pitch out of a an eight iron, I had six iron, so I couldn't. And I hit it there, dropped it, and I had a pretty good pitch out of a horrible place, which I deserved to be in. And then I had a pretty good plot too, just a little high.

In Tiger's press conference afterward, and he's getting interviewed on the 18th green, and he referred to your guy's friendship. He said a great friendship, something like, would you describe it that way? Because from what I've heard from the autograph story, which I'm gonna ask you to tell as well afterward, that, and the fact you guys have never sat and talked about the US open, that I just wonder if that was kind of, like, that comment just kind of surprised me

with everything I've heard, it's happened. Yeah, we were, we talked a little bit over the years, we played a bunch over the years, and we always had a good time playing. He was always good to me, he was always nice to me. You know, I don't know what happened With the autographs I'll tell you the autograph story. It's stupid. You know people last bottle But it kind of bothered me because I'm like really I mean really I always I wanted it was something I could put in the wall and share the kids. That's it

You know, I don't want anything special. I'll just say rock. You got lucky to even be there Can you tell the story real quick for those that haven't heard it? Yeah, I asked him to sign. I said, hey, sign this for me. I'm going to put your locker. I got the pinch sheet, only four of them made. I got the picture him and I have both laughing. He got the trophy and we're both laughing.

It's great picture. Great picture. So I'm like personalized for me. Say something stupid on there. I don't care what you say. You know, you're lucky or what you're old old how'd you get here? You know anything? So I'm putting a wall so I can look boys look at I did in 2008 and that cold I lost but damn I had a good time Well, I get the picture back. It's got his

Signature on the bottom right. I'm like really? There's no nothing I mean Did nothing There's no nothing. I mean, did nothing to rock a great week or you got lucky? Something. Bust my balls, do anything. I don't care what you write on there. I put it on a wall.

I ain't got nothing on a wall. Makes it be mad. Didn't even sign a pinch sheet. So I'm like, really, you're treating me like the other people. We had something special for like six hours. Okay. It was really cool to me. Another notch in his belt, one of the funnest days I've ever had my life.

Still to this day. I'm an off course. And I think that's what made it, you know, the story that it is is that the fun you were having was evident to everyone. Oh God, I'm having it. It was a joke. It was hilarious. I mean, you could have handled that two ways.

You could have been super nervous and competitive or you could have had fun. Oh, I was very, very nervous, but you have to. Of course you are. You're doing right in nervous. You're nervous as a tech out there, but it's a good nervous. I would have been really, well, I wouldn't have been there. If I wasn't playing good in the nut position,

then you're really nervous, but you can't be not playing good in that position. I mean, you can't be. So it's just the way it was, but you know, that bothered me. I mean, I'm over it now. I love the guy. I love my watching every time I can watch him.

You know, I was mad at him for years because he kept messing with his golf swing with the wrong people and you see what happened. And I was a little vocal about that, maybe a little too much, but it was because I cared. I wasn't trying to be mean because, you know, he's probably mad at me. I don't

really know. I've talked to him in years, but I still love it. I'm not surprised that he won the Master's and I won't be surprised if he wins a couple of majors at all. I mean his golf swings back were belongs, but you know it was fun for me, but it didn't hurt me. That term, yeah, it hurt for a couple of months after it hurt a lot because it just hurt. But I lost in a way where I lost. I didn't get, I got beat, I should say. I didn't do something bad. No one talks about this. Think about this 90th hole.

The only way I can drive far enough to get to that green is it a big low, like a nasty hook. So it rolls. I did it the first day and knocked it on the first day. But I couldn't hit a pretty one because it wouldn't go anywhere. Like he had a pretty one. He had a five-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds-hundreds And I would of if I tried to hook that in the left rough again because that's where it was going to go. And I laid up and he hit it on the green, which I knew he would. I had a pretty good nervy wedge about 15 feet left of the old pin high.

So it wasn't bad. You know, it's nervy, you're nervy. It was like one to full wedge. It was, I couldn't get the other one there and I had to kind of chip it. Hard to do in that situation. So I hit a good shot. So here's what no one talks about. So he's got a 34 or 40 for some footer for eagle.

I got a 15, 18 footer for birdie. If he makes an I miss, I lose. If he misses and I make, I win. Neither one of those things happen. He knocks at four feet by. I hit mine a little too hard, but at least that pace. And it never really broke much. Even if I hit it where I wanted, I think I missed it.

We'll never know. It goes three feet by. So now we both have these pots. Now the greeners, good as there are because it's just us, right? He's got a four footer. I got a three footer. If he makes and I miss, I lose. If he misses and I make, I win.

Same scenario. The genius of Tiger Woods is this. The putty hit slammed into the back of the hole. It didn't just go in. It's, if it misses, it's 10 feet by. That's what he, that's why he was great. You know, he hit it absolutely perfect right in the middle Well no one talks about this. I got three feet. I

Messed we're done here three feet on any on a perfect green or a pog green. I don't care what it is It's not it's not just go up and hit it But that's what I had to take it as and And that's what I did. That's the perfect length of like enough to be nervous, way enough to be nervous enough, like the perfect length of, like, I'm an idiot if I miss this. Of course it is. And that's, well, I'm not only am I an idiot, the career's over.

That's one of those times where when you look back, you know, if I miss that, I might have been done forever. Could you imagine? What? All of a sudden, I got a pot to win and now I just lost. Do you have any regrets from that week? Anything you look back at said, I just wish I'd have done this and maybe I would have won. No, I wish I'd have been the putter, the putter I am now. You know, I missed a lot of pots.

I mean, we can all say it. You know, you go, we can all say what happens doing a week, any week. But, you know, I hit that pot on the 71st hole really good. I thought I made it when it left the face. It was just a little dream of so fast back there. But, you know, I had to, you know, one five feet by,, made that one, you know, for par, but after that. But no, I wish I'd have been a little better putter because everything else I did really, really, really good on week. The golf swing worked.

I hit it really good. I pitched it good in my bucket game. All that crap was good. I just, if I was a little bit better putter, I might have won the golf tournament. It might have. Southern Hills and O1, if I was a little better putter, I would have won that golf tournament. It might have. Southern Hills know one, if I was a little better putter, I would have won that golf tournament. I know I finished fourth or so, but I was right, three putter, three times in a back night. And

so, I look at it that way, but no, the regrets, no, I learned a lot about what I've done my career and how it would hold up against. So you don't get that test. It's test. You don't get the world watching the world. And then you don't get him. I don't care if you had one leg, you don't get him. He never wins done Monday. He never went down on Monday. You never did anything on Monday. You did the rest of the week. What did you do the night, the Monday night after, uh, after the playoff? I went off to some my buddies place in, um, uh, LA just outside of LA and we had dinner and stuff and hung around and I did the Leno show. And that's day. And I got a lot of crap for that. Was a loser get the Leno show? Well, because Tiger couldn't, okay? They asked me to do it. So I said, yeah, who would say no to the

Leno's right? Yeah, like, like, like it was it was me like I'm some kind of ass that I did a little on it was so much fun. I was so talk about nervous. Holy crap was I nervous, put you in something you never did, then you're really nervous. But he was great. I had a great time. It was fantastic. You know, I told the people stick it in your, you know, shove it up your ass, you know, like don't watch. What my fault? I didn't ask to be on the show. They they asked me. Letterman wanted me to do the show but I couldn't get there I was in LA so I mean I wasn't my fault they called

tiger couldn't do say he wasn't doing stories need to be told like there shouldn't be yeah tiger couldn't build I did a couple things for him and I did one thing for him at his event and in a congressional that year he asked asked me, hey, can you cover for me because he's not playing, you know? I said, of course I can. I did a little thing for him there. It was great. It's what it's about.

It's just, you know, like I said, it's what it's about. And yeah, I don't know why we never talked. I don't know why he didn't sign my personalize my thing. People think it's petty, but for on my part, I'm like, it's not. I wanted him to personalize my picture. One last time you were in the US open playoff with all, you were like, oh, never. Sorry, then you don't get to talk. I'm in agreement with you there. Yeah, I mean, it was just something I

wanted. That's all. It's like I said, I harbor no. I love the guy. Love him. I love what he's up to. I mean, I remember we're talking after we went through that hell, you know, back when all the crap happened at the house, you know, whenever that was. And I was going through, I was separated and going through, you know, all this other stuff. And I remember a news somebody, I think it was ESPN call, I mean, they said, so what do you think about what's going to say? First of all, we don't really know what's going on because we weren't there. And I said, second of all, if you're perfect, I mean, we're not, we all do things that we're not supposed to do. And no one's perfect. Okay. So I take from this, this things, these things happen.

Okay. We don't know what happened. We weren't there. Whatever we're hearing is probably not true. weren't there. Whatever we're hearing is probably not true. Well, the next thing, another keater talks good about another keater. That's what you get back from trying to do the right thing, you know, because I was separated and he would ever happen. We don't know what happened. Still, we don't know what happened. And we who cares? But my point is that that's what happens. You back someone up because you that's what you do and you get barbecued for it. It's hilarious I just laughed my bonafid. Yeah, whatever. Yeah, you're gonna get if you want to answer asking I'll give it to you You look at that and you know people try to take people down They think everything's perfect, you know Camelot. It's perfect. No one he's the greatest. He doesn't make mistakes

Well, of course he does of course everybody, everybody in the world does, okay? But when he makes a mistake, everybody gets to know about it nowadays. When I make a mistake, nobody knows about it really because no one's watching. So you've got that going for you. Well, one thing I know I'm keeping you a long time here but one thing I definitely had on my list here

to talk about and I didn't want to rush through because I do think it's a very important topic. But in a golf channel interview, a couple of years ago, you detailed some of the struggles you've had with alcohol over the years and that you've no longer drink alcohol. I'm wondering if you could kind of describe what you've gone through in that front and you know, you being sober for several years now. Yeah, alcohol, it'll be three years, not tell. But see, people think it was a struggle.

It wasn't. I just liked it. There's no struggling. It was just a matter of what do I want the rest of my life. You know, the five-year-old daughter, I have an unbelievably fantastic wife. I have three older boys that are fantastic. You know, do I want to keep doing this because I like it and it's fun or really, you know, do I want to keep doing this because I like it and it's fun or really? You know my golf everything was suffering

And I didn't do it on I it took me a lot of convinced myself this needs to be done It took me a while. I had people around me telling me but you it doesn't matter What people around you tell you if you to if I tell you got gotta stop doing something because it's bad for you to go, yeah, I already know that, I already know. Unless you wanna stop, you're not gonna stop. I made a decision, I'm like, you know what, I'm tired of this crap. I've had my, I guess fun, you could say,

I really know if it was fun. And so when I decided on, I think it's October 23rd. One of those days I haven't had from an article I read. A couple of years, three years in October, that was enough. And that was it. Not even sniff. I had no miss it. I don't crave it.

I don't, you go out with people. Do you mind if I have a drink? I'm like, what? If it's going to bother me that you're drinking something, I got a serious problem. I had a habitual problem. What does that mean? Habitual is a habit. An addiction is not a habit.

This is my talking, not a doctor, not a scientist. This is what I call myself. I was, oh, I still am, I guess you would say, but because once you are an alcoholic, you are an alcoholic. It doesn't go away, right? So a body of mine goes, well, no, I still am, I guess you would say, but because once you are an alcoholic, you are an alcoholic. They don't, it doesn't go away, right? So like a body of mine goes, well, no, since you start drinking, are you not an alcoholic? I said, no, I think I still would be considered one because I had to quit something because I kept doing it too much.

So that would be, so, but I habitual is it was a habit. I started with pain. You know, it took the pain away. Didn't take many pills. I did some, but not nothing, that never affected me, which is amazingly good. But, you know, I took some for pain, you know, I, of course you do. But the alcohol took it away immediately. vodka takes it out fast, and that's what I wanted. I kind of had to, I wanted to play. Okay, but I knew it was going to be an issue down the right. I knew it. I mean, I'm dumb, but I'm not stupid. So as I kept getting better and I could play quite fine drinking for a while. So this is going on during tournaments on the PGA tour? Well, how yeah it is. Well, not necessarily a PGA tour. Very little there, mostly started a champion's tour and I was starting to work again.

I weighed 276 pounds too. But no, not much on the PGA tour. Some, yes, yes. The pain would be gone. See, I was a morning guy because when I woke up, it hurt. Okay, I didn't drink at night because I was too tired too. See, where I'm going? So the pain would go away and I'd be able to play.

Great, not all the time, but sometimes. Well, then when the pain would go away and I'd be able to play great not all time, but sometimes Well, then when the pain was gone forever when I you know, but by the back, back up good. I still like that feeling There's where the danger lies It was already danger before, but now it's big time and I knew it. I'm like, dude This is gonna cause an issue and it did almost a bit nothing bad happened But it could have. I was very fortunate that didn't hurt anybody, didn't wreck anything, didn't, didn't, you know, I probably said a lot of really stupid things, but, you know, that's fine. But so, yeah, that's how it all started. And it was a pain thing. And that's all it was. And it was a habit. So how do you get rid of a habit?

If I'm making a move, if I'm making a bad move of my golf swing and I want to get rid of that bad habit, I get rid of it. Period. At least I tried to. That's how I handle alcohol. It wasn't in my blood yet. Let me put it that way.

If it gets in your blood, you got issues, you got rehab. I don't want that. And I didn't know if I was that guy yet or not, so I woke up the next morning. And I went, oh, this is no big deal. I can do this. So I did. So I had their children, same with I, you know, I quit chewing tobacco for three or four years, you know, same thing. Have it. Now I've addicted. If I'm addicted, I'm still chewing. That's how I got lucky to beat that was because it wasn't in my blood. It wasn't a part.

It wasn't a part of my body chemistry because once it gets there, you're done. You had an interesting quote about when Tiger had his DUI in that you, I wonder if you could, you could relay your reaction to that. Yeah, my reaction was, yeah, totally get it. You'll do anything. You'll do anything to be able to do what you got to do. Anything. And then you're the best player of all time

and you'll do anything. It doesn't matter who you are. The part that I found interesting though was you said that you never got caught. Oh no, I never got caught. Oh, I could have got caught a million times. And who couldn't of name one person you know that drove home when they should have drove home and didn't get caught everybody. Yes, never got never got pulled

over, never did anything weird or hit anything or nothing like that. Not that happened a lot, but it happened. It happened for sure it happened. Like I said, people listen when I came, well, guess what you did it to. Okay, so calm down. It happens all of us. So, just because we're, I shouldn't say we, but when you look at Tiger, what happened with Tiger, well, just because he's Tiger, what he's not human, of course we didn't think he was human for quite some time. You know, the way he played the game, it wasn't human. It was completely not human, what he used to do to golf courses. But, but oh, so he can't do

that. He's not allowed to make a mistake because he's Tiger Woods horse, yet. Of course he does. And but the only, the only weird, the only bad thing about that is everybody knows. Because he's Tiger Woods. He's the number one guy in the world. He's this. He's the most recognized person on earth. Basically, one of them. So, yeah, he gets way more heat for that than normal people would get. And then the normal people go, well, that's ridiculous. He can't act like that. Well, why? He's a human being. I did an HBO thing that's coming out, I think I talked with them, and they tried their hard out to get a lot of us to say terrible things about what what's happened to him. Where's Creator Michael? What? If he's the only guy on earth that does this,

then yeah, that's a terrible thing, but guess what? He ain't. Everybody does. There's no perfection in this world. Not one person. And when those things happen to people, people like to take a shot at them because he's the best and they're jealous or they're this or that. Well, guess what? How do they like them now? See? He's back in the norm. See what I'm saying? That's what that's what happens. Yeah, people love you on your way up and when you're at the top, they're ready to tear you down for for anything. They can't stand it. They can't stand it. And now the sudden, now, you know, he was, the comeback he made will go down to one of the greatest in sports history, period. But people love that. They're back on board. See, back on board. You know, we don't know

what he's up to. We don't know if he hurts. He looks great. He's swinging great. You know, he's the only thing Tigers are not doing now that he always used to is making more pots. That's what's stopping him. If he starts putting half as good as he did before, he'll win more golf term. It's simple. So those times are fun. One of the best things that ever happened after the year so it was to win the prize. That's right. In no ten. See, because I didn't want the open to be my last anything. It was fine. If I wouldn't have one fries, I still would have been, but that was it. I got to win again against the PJ Torfield on a great golf course at 47, almost 48,

and it put me right on the champion's tour. Boom, right on the tour. I never stopped playing for 27 years. And I played the champion's tour. So that was huge. You weren't qualified for the champion store, but before you won that? Well, yeah, yeah, but I'm saying I, I, I was told to qualify forever, but, but my point is that I played through the PJ tour up right to the champion store, which is great because I never lost any, you know, I didn't really play great after I won in 2010, but I was still a mess here and there, and a lot of things happened in a personal crap. But otherwise, it was the greatest thing that ever happened. Well, you did dramatically too.

You hold out. Yeah, it was super. It was pretty destined, apparently. Hold in one on Thursday. You hold out from 160 on Friday, from 11 on Saturday, and then on the 71st hole. One 17. You hold it up from, yeah.

Yeah, and when you say it was dumb, it was awesome. You know, they said, well, no one's ever dumbed out before it. No kitten. Who's going to do that stupid things that just happened? It was stupid. I mean, how do you ask a guy on the 71st hole when you're standing 117 yards out and he

hits a driver from the tee because I couldn't reach you and I had to lay up to three feet to mark his ball. How do you do that? I remember I said to Alex Prula, it was a wonderful guy, Alex, would you mark that? He goes, what? I said, I know, I know, but things are weird, things are going on. And he marked it in. You know, it was, it was, it was absolutely ridiculous.

Wow. I never heard the marking the ball story. Oh, God. Yeah. I asked him to mark the ball. Yeah. I asked him to mark the ball. Yeah. Who does that? I said to Matthew, I went Matthew, I got to have him mark that ball. He goes, why do I want to land? Well, as I said, he's got to tell that story either way.

If you stuck this asshole asked me to mark the ball, I'm like, you call me whatever you want. I just, he's going to tell that story either way. If you stuck this ass hole, ask me to mark the ball. I'm like, you call me the whatever you want. I just, I'm sorry. Plus it gave me a few seconds to kind of gather myself. Yeah. In fact, I went in with stupid, but you know, I just had to fight a little left of the hole and I did. It wouldn't hit it because I looked at it a few times, but it just missed it.

Well, are you, uh, are you it to come to Jacksonville next fall for the Fiery event? Oh, yeah, oh, yeah, awesome. Yeah, yeah, that's good. That's good to have Jimmy out there. I just kind of what she's saying to PJ Twenton. Yeah, he's kind of, he's kind of being a little bit of a bully down there so far. Yeah, being a hundred percent so far, I'm going to just tell you right now, he can't sustain that for the next five years. You can tell when I said that. Rock said, you can't win every tournament. No, you can't sustain that for the next five years. You can tell him I said that. Rox said you can't win every tournament. No, you can't.

But I'll tell you what, if he wants to be one of the greatest or the greatest champion's tour player of all time, he can be. He can be a lot of golf tournaments that boy. He's one of them. Well, I'm asking that because we, you know, we're 75 minutes in and that didn't talk any champions tour, but I bet I think that's part two. When you come you know, we're 75 minutes in and that didn't talk any champions tour But I bet I think that's part two when you come down here We're in Jackson. We'll be there out out there all week and we can sit down in person and just do a whole champions tour podcast If you're up for it because I know you got some stories whatever you need awesome

We'll let you go for now, but thank you so much for the stories and the perspective and great great chat I was fun. I love it. Take care, Rocco. We'll talk to you soon. Cheers. Thanks. Be the right club. Be the right club today. Yeah. Yeah.

That's better than most. How about it? That is better than most. Better than most. Better than most.