No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 382: Scottie Scheffler

Episode Date: December 3, 2020

After an eventful rookie season, Scottie Scheffler joins us to talk about playing with Tiger at Augusta, shooting 59, his big payout from the Tour Championship, what he's learned from other players, why he spent 4 years at Texas, and a ton more.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yeah. That is better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No-Lang Up Podcast. Sully here, apologies, this interview is going up a day later than they usually go up during the week. We try to aim for Tuesday nights, but scheduling push this to Wednesday interview with

Scotty Sheffler. Always great to talk to one of the top 30 players in the world. He has not been on before. He's had a very very busy rookie season, which we talk a lot about. Some good tiger stories in there, basically all of his experiences and his golf career today, which I think you're going to enjoy hearing about. I want to give a shout out to our friends at whoop if you don't know what it is yet. It is a fitness wearable providing personalized insights on the performance of your sleep, how well recovered you are, how much stress you put on your body throughout the day.

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works and why that's different than a lot of people? My coach calls it the United Nations of for manufacturers. I don't know exactly how it happened, but I played Nike golf clubs my whole life. And when Nike stopped making clubs, I was kind of lost. I mean, I didn't really know what I wanted to play. I hadn't really tried too much other stuff. Just because the Nike equipment works so well for me.

So when they stopped making clubs, I was scattered. I was all over the place. And eventually I kind of settled in to some tailor made irons, some Nike clubs stuck around. But I think I'm just kind of real particular about my my setup. I don't love switching golf clubs a lot. And so kind of when something goes in the bag and it works for a while, I kind of just get used to it. And I don't really love changing. And once it's drastically better than what I had before. And so everything just kind of kind of morphed into place.

And I think I had at one point last year, seven club manufacturers in my bag at a 14 club. So it was that's hard to do. Yeah. Because I'm assuming your iron set is not mixed between between different club manufacturers. But I read somewhere too that I credit to Jonathan Wall at golf.com, but he was saying that you use the Nike three wood because which is a dated three wood, almost 10 years old, maybe something like that, because the modern ones go too far. Like what a what that's such a relatable issue that many people have to listen to, you

can understand. Yeah, very relatable. Now, what I actually discovered with my three wood was a lot of the newer throats they do go really far. And so in order for me to hit it the correct distance I need to hit it. I have to add loft and then I add loft. I just hit it. The club way too high. And with my three would have a lot of different shots that I can hit with it and I know it so well that. Like if I need to hit it really far off the tee. I'll just teet up higher. I'll catch it a little higher on the face and it'll go far. If I need to hit it shorter, I'll tee down real low and kind of pinch one, so it starts spinning and it won't go as far. And it's just a club that I know well and you got to hit a lot of different shots at the three

woods. So just switching into a different one would be very difficult. I'm hoping this doesn't break for a very long time. All right, that actually does make a little a little more sense than I was giving you credit for. I want to get I I wanna get this next part out of the way, and it's kind of, it's become one of your little thing. I always say when somebody comes on the screen, the announcers have like three different things they say about them. One of the things they say about you,

but it sticks out to me as well, the back foot, and the way it kind of slides through impact. Have you ever, I guess were you surprised that what your foot looks like in your golf swing? Have you ever tried to change it? Does it ever actually slip? Can you explain that at all guys? I don't understand it.

Yeah, I mean, I would say I don't completely understand it either. I'm sure my if we had my swing instructor on here, he would say the same thing. But my foot action. To be honest, I don't know how to explain it. My roommates say that my roommates, you know, the Oklahoma guys, the Corn Fairy guys, they say instead of saving swings with my hands, I save't know how to explain it. My roommates say that my roommates, you know, the Oklahoma guys, the Corn Fairy guys, they say instead of saving swings with my hands, I save them with my feet. And so like if I'm not swinging well,

my feet will usually move a little bit more because I'm having to do more to get the club face back to square. And it's definitely something that I would say we're actively trying to fix, but it's so natural to me that we're basically just trying to calm it down versus kind of letting it go wild. So the foot action, sometimes it can look pretty wonky when you're seeing it on TV.

And so we're definitely trying to calm it down a little bit. And yeah, I did slip all the time. And so I had to switch. I switched right before Memphis this year. We were playing at Memorial and it cost me a couple shots late on the back nine because I slipped multiple times on the wet vent grass, using regular spikes. And so I switched over to metal and the slipping has actually been a lot better traction with the metal spikes.

Okay, because sometimes I watch, I'm like, okay, that one he slips, like that was an actual slip. That's good to know that I'm not just imagining that when I see that. No, no, you sometimes I watch, I'm like, okay, that one he slips, like that was an actual slip. That's good to know that I'm not just imagining that when I see that. No, no, you're not just imagining that. There's definitely some slippage in there. I would like to describe it more of this as a slide, but definitely can morph into a slip sometimes. Well, you had, I mean, we've got a lot to cover. You had a very, very eventful. I think it's eventful is a good word to use for your opening first rookie year on the PGA tour, but a lot of success. How would you assess? Like if I'd have said,

going back to beginning of 2019, 2020 season, hey, this is what your year is going to look like these results, this finish in the tour championship and this run at the PGA, all that stuff. What would your reaction have been? Yeah, I would have been very pleased with it. I mean, I was very happy with the way the year turned out. I mean, the only thing I was missing was a win, but overall rookie year going from, you know, where I was coming out of college two and a half years ago

to where I am now is awesome. I'm very happy with the results. I feel like, you know, there's a lot I can improve on, but overall last year, I'm very pleased without win. I've kind of had some time at home now to reflect on it and I'm very happy with that one. So when you kind of, you know, this being your rookie season, I had kind of, I had heard about you from your amateur days and it felt like such a long time ago that I don't fall the amateur game that closely. It felt like you'd kind of, I kind of lost track of you. And then when you pop back up in the professional scene, I was like, oh, this is like a post-hype sleeper kind of,

you know, coming back into it. But in reality, you were just, you, you went to college for four years in Excel at Texas. When I, I think it's fair to say you had the game to have possibly left early and gotten into the professional scene earlier, one, I, would you agree with that? And two, what was kind of your,

your rationale and reasoning for, for staying in school for years? Yeah, so I would say I felt like I was good enough at certain points in college to turn pro, but it never really came to a tough decision for me. I always wanted to stay in school. Finishing at Texas was important to me. I was in the business school. I wanted to get a degree.

And for me, that was kind of my main goal. And really, I was having so much fun at school, playing college events, hanging out in Austin. I was having so much fun. I never really considered leaving. I kind of wanted to take advantage of that time, going to a big university being in school and having fun with all the guys on the team

and certain social organizations. I was having so much fun. I never really wanted to leave. I mean, after four years, I was very excited to turn pro. And, you know, I enjoyed my time in college, but I never really, I never really got to the point where, you know, I was talking to my parents and coaches being like, should I do this, should I not?

I was always on board with Stain in school. Looking back on it, I feel like I could have turned pro earlier and maybe got on the tour shooter, but I wouldn't trade those years in college for anything. Those are a lot of fun. I made, I met some of my best friends in the world and really grateful for that time. Yeah, there's two sides of every coin, right? You don't know how you would have actually matured. You don't know what off the golf course experiences you had that are contributing to either a happy

life or a successful golf career or all those things, but I just, I found it interesting because you had played, you made the cut at the Byron Nelson in 2014 as a 17 year old. So that's why that's kind of like your game, obviously you weren't ready at age 17 to compete week in a week on PGA tour, but your game, you've shown signs so often over the course of many of your years of your amateur career that you had the game.

And I was just, I was curious how you treated that transition. But I want to hear about that, playing in a tour event at age 17. First of all, you got to tell us who your, who your caddy was and what you remember about that week. So my caddy was my older sister, Callie. She, when I was playing amateur stuff, and she was, she was two years older than me,

and she played college golf at A&M. During the summer, she would just caddy for me all the time. You know, a bunch of amateur events, all my professional events that I played in as an amateur, she was cadding for me. I mean, she was a great caddy. She caddy for me all the time. Did a great job. As someone that has a sister, I cannot picture my sister cadding for me.

Is the reason why I'm asking. Yeah, I mean, I felt like Callie did a great job. She was always really focused. She took care of a lot of things that professional caddies really take care of. Like she would be writing down, you know, numbers on certain shots and remembering. If I wanted to, you know, let's say we're playing hole 17, I got a similar yardish to what I had on hole three yesterday. And I remember the shot, I'd be like, Hey, Callie, what do we have on on three yesterday?

And she just opened her book. This is what you had. I'd be like, Hey, Callie, what do we have on on three yesterday? And she just opened her book. This is what you had. This is what we have now. I mean, she took care of a bunch of stuff. And that's not the say we didn't butt heads plenty of times on my golf course. But she did a great job for me just keeping me in the right front of mind and taking care of a lot of stuff. I mean, she learned a lot when she caddy for me at the at the Nelson. Well, it wasn't, you know, you didn't have a lot of PGA Tour starts, you know, in years

2014 to whatever 2018, but you had a few here and there, but I'm kind of more curious. You know, you have this time frame, right? You get the tour experience in 2014 and then you have all of these years to kind of continue your development. Did you feel like you kind of had almost a leg up in experience when it came time for you to fully start your PGA tour experience. I don't know if that question makes sense. No, no, that makes sense. I would say, yes, like playing in those two US Open gave me a bunch of experience. And it's really hard to describe

what you actually learned when you play one of those events, but you know, kind of moving up the levels too. Like I started off at the at the bar and which at the time wasn't, you know, kind of moving up the levels too. Like I started off at the, at the buyer in which at the time, wasn't, you know, a major tournament. And then my next start was, like I played Memphis as well. And then, you know, three years, I think it was two years later. I was playing the US Open at Oakmont. And so I kind of had two years to develop and then also move up a step in the ranks from just regular tournaments and majors. And, you know, you learn a lot about your game because you have to be so much more

precise on tour and you kind of see what guys are really good at and why they succeed and why some don't. And so it was kind of interesting. Well that's what I was kind of getting at there is you know you can even amateur golfers can play with you know amateur golfers that are around their skill level and you don't see the golf that you need that you know you need to get to. You know, that's what I'm saying. If you if you get to go out there, play next to some of these guys, see how they play it. Now you know like, oh man, I got to go get to this level and that you go get in the lab and get to it a lot easier than just like, you know, showing up your you're rookie year and being like, holy crap, these guys are good. Yeah, exactly. You're exactly right. I mean, just just

knowing what those guys are able to do versus what I was able to do at the time was really helpful for me. You know, when I'm practicing freshman sophomore year college, I know I need to get to here in order to make it to the PJ tour and exactly what were some of those things. I mean, a lot of it. So when I played, I played that bar in Nelson, I played with Kevin Kisner and Hudson Swoffer the first two rounds. And I remember watching kids, he used to play, I remember it specifically, he always hit a draw when we were at the bar and Nelson. Every shot was a draw. And I, at the time,

you know, if I'm paired with him in the first two rounds, he was probably, you know, one of the last guys in the field, a sponsor's exemption. And I mean, super consistent. Always hit a great draw. And I'm like watching him at the age. I'm like, man, if he could start working the ball both ways, he would start winning immediately. And sure enough, I think it was a few months later. I'm watching the coverage. And he's working in both ways, hitting different shots.

And I think he won Seattle in that year. That could be very wrong. But going looking at from where I played with him then to now, you know, where how his career has taken off with all the different shots he plays and hits. You know, it's really cool. And that was one of the things that I learned was immediately was I need to learn how to play all different kinds of shots and stay consistent working on those shots. Oh, that makes us.

He won C.I. on the 2015. So you do remember that. Okay. So the next year, the next year, yeah. Remember that decently well. What is, you know, coming from you you spent a year on the Cornfairy tour, you know, coming out from Cornfairy to PGA tour, how different is the test and what is, what are the differences, you know, the way I view it, PGA tour golf courses, there's not that many of them, right, and you're not going to them every week on the Cornfairy tour.

I'm guessing you're hitting a lot more wedges, but did the test of golf each week feel different than anything else you'd experienced? Going from corn ferry to PGA tour? Yeah, corn ferry and also just your amateur career as well. Yeah, I mean, I would say the mistakes are just magnified on PGA tour courses. The greens are faster. They're usually firmer. There's usually a little bit more rough, and a lot of the courses on the corn freight tour are just kind of a birdie fest. You can kind of, you know, hit it, find it, hit it again, and you can kind of just work the angles on these courses versus on the PGA Tour, there's a lot of golf courses where you get on a T-box, you're like, I just have to hit a really good shot here.

Like Rivier is a great example, there's a lot of holes in that golf course where you get on a T-box, you're like, I just have to hit a really good shot here. Like Rivier is a great example. There's a lot of holes in that golf course where you get on the T-box, you're like, well, I just have to hit a great T-shot and then you get in the fairway and it's like, well, now I just have to hit a really good shot. On the corn fairy tour, I feel like it was a lot simpler to kind of manage your misses and do all that kind of stuff.

On tour, it's still extremely important, but you can win on the corn fairy tour, just managing your mistakes and playing from the correct side of the holes on the PJ tour, you got to do that and make birdies. And so it's just a little bit more of a precise level of golf. So let's say like cornferry tour, we get to the whole number 10 and the misses left. I probably have 50 yards left where I can hit it and still get on the green and have a good look at birdie. On the PJ tour, there's probably have 50 yards left where I can hit it and still get on the green and have a good look at birdie. On the PJ tour, there's probably only 10 yards left of the fair where I can hit it. So the misses are smaller and you just have to be more precise, I would say.

Yeah, I guess that probably explains why you get a lot of bunch to scoring on the corn fairy tour, right? As you know, the misses aren't getting punished nearly to the same extent. Whereas, you know, if you're super dialed up, you're still not able to separate yourself nearly as well as, say, someone on the PJ tour, because if you're missing in the wrong spots on PJ tour, you're shooting over par and missing cuts. So is that fair to say?

I was sitting there. Yeah. Have you gotten into analytics at all? And has that evolved over your career? I mean, now you have like a full year's worth of data. I'm curious if you have any big takeaways. So biggest takeaways for me last year was just looking at my, my putting. I felt like last year, I put it really poorly and the stats kind of showed it.

And so that's basically the main area of my game where I'm like, I thought going into the tour season that I would be much, much higher in putting. And I think I learned I was a better ball striker than I thought I was. And maybe it was putter. I don't know if it was just a year that was off or something but advanced analytics, I would say not so much just because I think the way I felt about my game was what the stats showed and so going into deep analytics I wouldn't say there's too much there but definitely just looking at the stats overall. I would say they aligned with how I felt my game was, you know, pretty close, but there's got to be some, I don't fully understand this, but there's

got to be some kind of inverse relationship between like Stroke's game putting and Stroke's game T degree, right? Because in theory, if you're hitting the ball great, you probably are leaving yourself a lot of puts from 10 to 15, you know, 10 to 20 feet, that, you know, it just kind of can chip up, you got to make a ton of those to really separate yourselves in stroke, game, putting. If you're hitting it that good and draining all those puts, like you are winning a bunch of golf tournaments, you know what I mean?

Like, there's something to hitting it really good, making it harder to, I don't know if it's an anomaly in the stats, but harder to make it up the charts in Stroke's game putting. Does that make sense? Yeah, that would make sense. I mean, I'm sure that would take a deep dive into the analytics, but that's a good, a good little like research project to see if, you know, the bottom half and ball striking is higher in putting because like you said, it's easier to make a bunch of puts

from five to 10 feet and start gaining gradually strokes gained versus if you're sitting at 20 feet all day and you know you don't make a bunch of pots you're kind of just gradually losing strokes gained over the round. And if you're missing greens, if you're missing greens you can in theory kind of you know leave yourself the best putt right a lot in a lot better control than you can from 175 yards. Yeah, yeah, for instance, yeah. So if you're hitting a seven iron into a green and you're chipping, you're like, Hey, I know this six footer is a lot easier than the six footer on the other side of the hole. So I'm just going to put it down there and make that one. Yeah, there's definitely something to that. All right, don't beat yourself up then. If you don't know,

if you're putting your putting wrecking stuff. A quick break to check in with our friends at Precision Pro. No, laying up is brought to you by Precision Pro. Hopefully you have seen If you're putting your putting rakey quick break to check in with our friends at Precision Pro no laying up is brought to you by precision pro Hopefully you have seen on this season of Taurus sauce that everyone here at no laying up trust precision pro golf Range finders to help us swing with confidence and hit more greens as I'm saying this last night Band and crossings episode episode nine of our 12 episode season aired on our YouTube channel. If you haven't gone and check those out, please do. The next nine helped us hit a lot of greens on the very cool part three's abandoned crossings

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Again, precisionprogolf.com promo code NoLangup for $40 off. Swing with confidence, hit more greens with precision progolf. Let's get back to Scottie Shephler. What's it like being in contention of tour events compared to your amateur career? You had a lot of chances at wins this year. What, obviously you mentioned that you wanted to win. Of course, that's obvious, but do you, are you beating yourself up at all at the chances you had

or any particular chance or kind of what's your reaction to winning on the PJ Tour after a full season? I wouldn't say I'm beating myself up at all. I'm very happy with how the year went. And I felt like I was given away too many shots at the beginning of the week. And I was just someone on the outside looking in, like I didn't have any 54 whole leads

other than American Express and the PGA. And both of those events, like the PGA Championship leaderboard was super bunched up. And American Express, I think there was, that was the only event where I really kind of separated myself with anger and I just struggled on Sunday and you know that happens. I gave it, I gave it a good run at the end,

but other than that, I wouldn't say I'm beat myself that much. I just, I feel like I have to be more focused throughout the entire week. Just more focused and more committed to each shot. I felt like I'm just giving away some shots early in the week. And when I'm playing my best golf, I'm not extending myself far enough from the pack early in the week as I could.

That would be kind of my main goal just being more committed and processed oriented to where I can save more shots in the beginning of the week and kind of extend myself further towards the weekend. Well, you shouldn't be beating yourself up. I didn't mean to imply that, but I would think especially, no, especially considering what came at the end of the year

at the Tor Championship or playoff finale or whatever that was. I think if I remember right, I did the math that you were the biggest, the biggest gainer from where you started the week to where you finished it. So I'm hoping this is the case. You're a rookie on the tour, listen, I know you're to make a lot of money,

but at least humor me and tell me you were thinking about the huge payout near the end of that tournament. Yeah, I mean, it obviously creeps into your mind. Just because I went into the week, I mean, you go into the playoffs, I was mid-20s going into the playoffs or low-20s and I think I needed one good week and I would have been fine. And so my goal going into the first playoff event was get as close to the

lead as I can as quickly as I can. So I'm not thinking about just having a decent week so I can make the playoffs, which I was able to do. And then we get to that last event. And I can't remember what I was going into it, but probably still low 20s. And I start kind of gradually moving up the leaderboard. We go into Sunday and me and my fiance are driving to the course and it's like, wow,

this is what's on the line today. And I'm glad she was there. Does she give me a nice reminder? That's not why I'm playing. And so while I was on the course, I was not thinking about it, which was awesome. I was just trying to move up the leaderboard. But that kind of money is,

it's some life changing money, especially for someone who's a rookie on the tour. So I did look, but my fiancee did a great job of reminding me that's not why I'm out here playing. And so props to her for that. Ha, ha, ha. Were you following,

I was kind of amazed at how many people were talking about the 72-hole tournament, you know, with the non-handicap version of the tour championship. Were you, were guys following that at all? You finished second on that 72-hole result. Did that matter to you at all? Was that a thing out there? I mean, yeah, I would say it's kind of one of those things where you just got to stay aggressive. And so I got to a point where it definitely crossed my mind. Just because, you know, there's a lot of stuff that goes into that as well with, you know, world-ranking points and stuff like that. So I'm still kind of just trying to crawl my way up the world rankings as well.

And at least like there's a lot of those points available too. So just trying to stay aggressive and be like, okay, I got the fifth on the list. And even though, you know, I may be three shots out of fourth, I might only be, you know, one or two shots out of first or whatever it was in the, the four day tournament. So that definitely kind of stay aggressive and keep pushing even though I may not have been able to move further up the FedEx cup points list, but I could have moved more up the four day tournament. Yeah. And the, I mean, you got second, you got a lot of world ranking,

but like 34 world ranking points came with that. So that's what, you know, it is interesting that it's not covered really at all on the on the telecaster. Yeah, and I'll say it's probably not covered too much because a lot of guys in that field, like, for instance, those guys you were competing for the FedEx Cup probably couldn't care less about 30 FedEx Cup or 30 world ranking points. But you know, a guy like me who's a rookie on the tour trying to kind of gain traction,

30 world ranking points is huge. I think that was probably the most points I got all last year in one event. So, I mean, it was important for me. And the reason it's not cars is probably because a lot of those guys in the field, it probably wasn't important to spend at the time. Yeah, no, it was your biggest gainer, uh, gainer that that for the season. That's that is interesting. But well, take me to, you know, you touched on the PJ championship. You were in second place going to the final round. You finished in a tie for fourth.

And you're one of the guys that I guess I could get one of the guys most qualified to answer this question, but a lot's been made, of course, of the lack of fans. How it's contributed to, you know, Colin more, Kyle winning winning the PGA, Matthew Wolves made a run at two majors. You obviously made your run and it's not at all to say like you guys don't have the game to compete. But a lot's been made at that lack of fans. Does it have any effect to these championships and what that effect, you know, what would that affect be to someone who doesn't have the experience of coming down a major championship with fans screaming in their ear?

Is there anything to that? Yeah, I would say there's definitely something to that. You know, you get into those events where there's a ton of fans around. And when they're hootin' and hollerin' and screaming at you from five feet away, it kind of gets your heart rate up because we'll be walking through the ropes. And some guy, you know, six, seven feet away, we'll yell, come on Scotty, let's go, and I'm like, whoa, whoa, take it easy. It's kind of You know, for someone who's not used to it, it's kind of shocking at first And so I would say there's maybe a slight advantage from from the younger guys coming out on tour or not used to that at amateur events

That don't really happens when people are getting rowdy at tour events and so I'll say there's definitely a slight advantage towards us Just because we may not be used to it as much as the other guys I'd say there's definitely a slight advantage towards us just because we may not be used to it as much as the other guys. Yeah, it looks it probably just looks and feels like your amateur tournaments too, you know, just a couple people here and there and and whatnot. But you know, this season it feels like an ages ago that there were fans at PGA tour events, you know, in the beginning of this season. Do you ever get to a point where you stop seeing the fans? You know what I mean? I guess your first time doing it, where you kind of amazed at how many people were watching you and then as it has evolved, do you see them less and less? Yeah, I would say for sure.

So like, for me, the one I remember the most was I got paired Saturday at Bay Hill with Ricky. And we were maybe four through fifth of last group. So I wasn't expecting very many people to be out there watching us, but it's Ricky Fowler, so there was a boatload of people out there. There was a ton of fans. And for me, I remember noticing walking down the first couple of holes.

I was like, man, I looked at Scottie Mikeadios. Like, man, there's a lot of fans out here. And I noticed it then. And then as the round kind of gradually went on, I started to not notice them. And so for me, that was really the first experience where there being kind of a bunch of people around. And just as the round went on,

they kind of just blended in and got used to it. And so I would say the more us young guys are playing in front of big crowds, the you'll just stop noticing. Well, moving ahead a bit, you know, from the PGA, you ended up missing this year's, the US Open at Wingfoot. You had a positive COVID test.

Can you give us kind of the timeline of how that unfolded, what your COVID experience was? Yeah, my COVID experience is pretty strange. I did the saliva test to go to the US Open. So you had to take a, it was some sort of test, you had to take the travel to New York State. And so I take the same test, we take, when we're traveling for all the PGA tour events, we get the same email back from the testing lab.

And I get the email back, I'm sitting there, I just walked into my parents' house like two minutes before that. I was about to show my little sister something on my iPad. I saw the email, I'm like, I'll check the email. And I look at it and the email looks exactly the same as it always does. It's the same little blue box, the same questions and everything except this time it's positive.

And I'm sitting there, I feel great. I'm not thinking anything about it. I've been laying super low. I think that didn't think there was any chance I'd get it. And that was shocking. So I immediately walked out of my parents house, started to do more testing and every other test came back positive. So I had it. And I just went home, called the USGA, withdrew from the tournament. And I didn't feel anything

for my my 10 days at home. It was really strange. I just stayed in my room. I watched a lot of football. And I think it was basketball's on at the time as well. So I just watched, I basically just count down the minutes until sports came on at night and just hung out. Luckily, I only knew one other person. I was around that week that tested positive. And other than that, I mean, it was just strange. I just sat at home. I did my 10 days. I didn't feel anything. And that was it. It was extremely strange. Yeah, there's enough of those stories that, you know, it's just such a, what a weird year.

But like I hear that and I'm just like, my next door neighbor was in the hospital for eight days and I'm like, wow, that was right on our doorstep. And then you have your story where it's like, yeah, nothing really affected me. It's just a, it's an insane, weird dynamic to this. This goes first. But do you, did you at least, I guess, oh, looking at it optimistically,

did you feel at least freed up heading into Augusta? Because I know it sucks to have gone through, but you had to at least have some, the fear being released of that happening at the masters. Yeah, honestly, that was kind of a huge relief not having to test going to each event because testing at the beginning of the week is stressful. You're sitting weight, right? You got to sit and wait for your result and you're kind of, it's definitely some anxiety because you can have it and not know like I did. And so going into these events, especially going into my first master's, I would have been probably pretty worried about the test just because you don't know. And so

it was nice to have some freedom after that to where I know I wasn't gonna test positive. So that was nice, but to definitely stonk missing the US Open. Yeah, they have you've already played in a bunch of those two. You're like, how do you how many sectionals have you gotten through sectionals three times? Is that right? Uh, yes. Are you just like an expert at getting through this? I mean, the math doesn't even check out for that on, you know, the top perfect, those were all as amateurs. Is that right? And the top professionals don't

get through that frequently. Yeah, I mean, I guess for a lot of professionals, it may not be that big of a deal just because they, you know, if they don't get in like, I'll go home for a week. Maybe that's how some of them are. I don't know. That's not how I would be because I know going into those, those were a huge deal for me at the time. And so being able to get into the open was a huge deal. And so I was showing up for my 730 T-Time ready to go. And a lot of guys may be traveling, they may have just finished an event the night before and maybe not as amped up to play that.

And so I would say that probably attributes to a little bit of it. But I did get through two of them. My first two I got through, I think they're both playoffs, which was pretty nerve racking at the time. That's, I was gonna say that's got to be, you know, even for a top, top amateur, like the knowing what's at your doorstep or what the, what that possibility is going to be. I can't imagine that kind of pressure into playoff.

Oh, yeah, it was. So my first one that I got through, we were playing, I went up to Ohio and played the sectional there because I had more spots. And we got a randula with like five holds left. And both of the guys in my group pulled out. So I go back out after the randula. It's like six, seven o'clock at night.

I'm playing by myself. There's just a walking score with me. And there's a three-sem in front of me. So I go out there, I check the scores. I'm like, all I have to do is, you know, par the last four or whatever it is. And I bogey the first hole. So the par five, I three-potted, I make a bogey.

And then I'll just sit on there and just sitting out there waiting. And all I'm thinking about is like, man, first you I'm so open all the stuff. There's nobody out there to talk to. There's nothing to distract me. It's just me and my pull cart with like three holes left and I ended up having to get up and down on the last hole to get into a playoff. Come back the next morning and got through the playoff and that was it, but it was just

a really strange feeling being out there by myself, trying to qualify and just like basically pacing back and forth just thinking about the results. It was so strange. Well, it's got to be weird too to I guess, you know, one of this was Aaron Hills, which was not set up too difficult, but one of these was Oakmont as well that like getting kind of helicoptering in or parachuting into a, you know, a professional golf event that is the most difficult setup of the year. What was it like, competing at Oakmont? Oakmont was awesome.

I remember that week, I played some practice rounds with some guys. I think I played with Dustin and Brooks and then another practice round with Jordan. I got my feet wet a little bit at the beginning of the week and the course at the beginning of the week was so firm and so fast. It was going to play so difficult. And then Wednesday night we got a ton of rain and it's off in the course up a bunch. I would have really had loved to have seen it the way it was in the practice rounds. Because I think Dustin won that tournament like four or five under.

And I just couldn't imagine what the scores were like if it would have stayed firm like that. But that was a cool experience getting to play practice jobs with those guys. Saturday prepare for events, especially a major like that. And that was another great example of what I needed to work on after that week, just because you play such a difficult golf course like that that it exposes you in certain areas.

And that was really cool for me to learn being, I think it was a sophomore in college at the time. Yeah, I had imagined too. It's gotta be as good as the top players are. They all do things in different ways. Like seeing all the different ways that guys play shots or get to certain spots, it can be kind of eye-opening. I would imagine in terms of, hey, it doesn't have to be

this formulaic approach that I've am currently trying to employ. Does that make sense? Oh, does that make sense for have to be this formulaic approach that I've am currently, you know, trying to employ. Does that make sense? Oh, that makes sense for sure. I saw that that week because I played, I think on, I don't remember what day it was, but I definitely, I played one practice round with Dustin. I played another one with Jordan and Zach Johnson.

And watching Zach Johnson work his way around the course in a practice round was the polar opposite of watching Dustin Johnson go around the course in a practice round. And so what I learned was I got to figure out what works for me because I could be on either end of the spectrum here. That was pretty out of being for like, for instance, Dustin would basically just play the course and figure out how he's just going to play shots out of the rough and the fringe and these different areas real quickly and then you get Zach Johnson. He go on on the green. He'd look find where all four pins were going to be and look at all the spots around each pin play different shots to each one and was more of a grinder in the practice round at Destiny kind of just showed up and was like

this is how I'm playing the shot from the rough. This is how I'm playing it from the first cut and I think I'm good. Wow. Yeah, that's that kind of speaks to you know how they're both of those guys approach to the game. That's interesting. Fast forwarding again to Masters, your Masters debut. It sounds like you had had several chances to play a Gusta either in college or when you're in Amateur. How does a Gusta national compare when you're playing a practice round in previous iterations versus Masters week?

How much that golf course change? This year is a little different just with it being in November. The greens actually were fairly similar to how I'd played the course before. And they were a lot slower than they usually are for the masters. And so balls were stopping in spots where they weren't supposed to stop. There was definitely a lot or a much different year than usual. But the course started to firm up a little bit, get a little bit more quick on Saturday and Sunday,

but still it was, it actually was not too much different from how I had played it before. And I'm sure this April, they're probably going to be a little bit ticked off. It's going to be a little bit more eye-opening for me. But to see how much that course can actually change. But as far as this year goes, it wasn't too crazy. A lot of people were expecting it to get pretty, pretty wild, but

nothing really changed too much as the week went on. Did you get to play with anyone cool that week? I don't, I don't remember how that, how that ended up playing out. So, practice rounds, no. I played, I played Sunday with Tiger and Shane Lowry. That was really the... That's what I was getting at there to be cooler. Yeah. Okay. You were evening a joke. The best jokes are the ones you got to explain, right? Yeah, I'm on a little slow this morning. I'm sorry. Well, it wasn't like playing with the big cat at Augusta. Callie, it was wild. It was so wild because I'd seen it hit balls before and I mean,

I've watched countless hours of that guy on YouTube. So, watching an Imperson was eye-opening and it was kind of weird, you know, I'm driving to the golf course and it's COVID year. It's the COVID Masters. I'm like driving the course on Sunday and this is just an experience I will never, ever forget playing with Tiger Sunday at the Masters COVID year with no fans. And so, I mean, it was awesome. Watching that guy hit the golf ball. I mean, he hits it so solid and so precise. It is really cool to watch. It was awesome. You were witness to the, you know, what was your reaction,

I guess, when he made a 10? Did you realize when this is going on, you know, do you, I guess it's not pretty hard to avoid something like that, but how into your own round are you while playing with Tiger Woods at the same time? So I usually watch the guys in my group play anyways. And so for me, I would just kind of doing the same thing

just because I'm usually kind of trying to pay attention to stuff like that as well, just to see if I can pick up anything with a wind or how firm the green is, the green is. And so for me, I'm usually paying attention to what's going on around me anyways. And so playing with Tiger, it was kind of natural just for me to watch.

I did pay a lot closer attention to him than I usually do my other playing competitors, but it was really cool to just see how he prepares for each shot, how focused he is. And then when he made the 10, that was crazy. I mean, that was wild. It's even crazier what happened after it though. Oh, I know.

So he makes the 10. When he's making the 10, I actually hit in the water too. And so we're both kind of going up to the creek, figure out where we're going to drop, he ended up dropping off, dropping his ball a little further back than I did. And I see him spin the first one in the water. And I'm like, wow, like green soft.

And so I hit mine up there on the green. And then I didn't see his next shot go over. But he's standing in the bunker. And he's got that awful stance, can barely stand where his ball is. And me and Shane are kind of standing there and I think to myself I'm like man he could easily get this thing in the water and sure enough he caught it a hair thing and went right in the water. And then the next one he chunked out. I mean I mean we're just kind of sitting there in shock like I didn't know what to think. Then all of a sudden he clipped the switch and he didn't miss many iron shots after that.

He missed one on 14 about seven feet right of the pin, but other than that, I mean, he hit one of the most spectacular shots I've ever seen in my life on 16s, just because of the way the wind was swirling. You know, we get on the T-Box, we got like 175, 10. The wind is blowing 10 different directions on the T-bikes. You have no idea where the wind is blowing. He hits this little chip punch cut, seven iron. And the wind had no chance of touching this golf ball.

Landed it out of foot from the pin and just stayed there. And I mean, it was kind of cool to see Tiger struggle. Like he did at the beginning there round. And to see Tiger pretty close to I would say at his best Brady in five the last six at Augusta. I mean that's that was pretty cool. Did you have any relationship with him prior to you know this pairing? Yeah so I had met him a couple times I'd seen him in the training room and we'd had a few conversations so we knew each other from before so that was

definitely a lot easier to start in the round and yeah it was a lot easier being that way. Any particular memorable moments moments you touch on a couple of them there But anything he said during the round or how talkative is he on a on a Sunday at Augusta? Not too talkative, you know, we had a few conversations here and there. He's really nice You know ask ask me a few questions. I didn't want to approach him first You know just because I didn't know if we were going to get the tiger that is just locked in Sunday at the Masters, if he was going to be kind of loose because we were in, you know, 25th place or whatever going into the last day.

So I didn't really know what to expect. He definitely, when it came time to hit his shot and, you know, the couple of minutes before and after didn't say a word, but if we're walking out the fairways, he's having conversations doing, doing normal stuff. Were you, I guess, as soon as play finished on Saturday, where you follow in the leaderboard, trying to guess us to what the pairings were going to be knowing this was a possibility? Yeah, so we're actually next to each other Saturday as well on the list. We finished Saturday morning and so we go inside and marathon, I were beaten, breakfast on

the patio, just kind of waiting around. I look at the leaderboard and like, oh, I might get the tiger pairing today. And then I'm not happening. And we go, we finish that round. I go inside, I practice a little bit, I get on the training table, I get off, and I look at the leaderboard and I start counting. I'm like, well, there's almost no way I don't play with them tomorrow.

And so obviously, it was very excited and looking forward to the next day for sure. Well, you know, as I mentioned, you had an eventful year and there's something I breeze past before we got to Augusta, but you shot 59, of course, in the playoffs this year as well. When, uh, easiest question ever, I'm sure you've been asked this,

when, when did you become aware of that? And was it just something that was, like, completely impossible to avoid once you kind of started thinking about it? Yeah, I mean, once that once that crosses your head, it's impossible to get out just because it's such a historic number. And for me, I didn't think about it until late in the round just because I started so far back in that round. I was outside the cut line starting the day.

And so my approach to that day was, let's get out, let's get after it, make as many as birdies as I can early to where I'm not thinking about the cut line on the back nine because you know I'm sitting, let's ending the cut line was going to be four under that week and I started that day like even or one under. I didn't want to be three or four under with five holes to play kind of having to be a touch careful with hazards and trouble because you know a double could take me out of the tournament. And so for me I was just trying to get out there, make as many birdies as I can, and get as far away from the cut line, which I did.

And then all of a sudden, you know, the leaderboard was so bunched up, I'm like, oh, I'm near the lead now. Let's try and keep making more birdies so I can get in front of the lead. And so all I was thinking about most of the day was just making birdies. And I got into his own where that was what I was doing for a while. And a crimson in my head, I think I missed a birdie putt, sort of from you to remember now, but I missed a birdie putt on 14 or 13. And I was like, man, that would have been nice.

That would have got me a little closer. And then I kind of started sitting there thinking and like, dang, I'm, I got a chance, I've birdied the next three holes, I believe. And then all of a sudden, I'm like, man, I got to make one more birdie and I shoot 59. And so going down 18, it was unavoidable thinking about it. I actually had to make a nice parpeau on 17 as well, but definitely very unavoidable to think about. What is the zone like that feel like?

Is it, I'm guessing it's not a lot of swing thoughts or very technical stuff. You know, compare that to, whatever a normal round of golf is. What is the difference? So usually for me when I'm playing my best, I have one little feel that kind of helps me hit a bunch of shots. And that day I just got into a place where I was just feeling really good and I had a good feel for the where the wind was coming from. And it's weird to say, but sometimes it just feels a lot easier.

Like, when you're in the zone, you see a shot so much differently sometimes than when you're struggling, I would say. And when you're in the zone, you know, the whole looks bigger, the targets look bigger. And sometimes when you're struggling, they can look a lot smaller just because golf is like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's way of like, hey, don't think about it, just do all feel. And it never seems to work unless you are actually in that state. You can't, it's not something you can channel, it's just something that has to happen, but you're in almost no control of when it does happen. Yeah, exactly.

So like, for instance, I had a terrible round on Thursday and I had a horrible, horrible warm up Friday morning before that round. And so I'm going into the round. I'm like, this can be a tough day. Like I need to make a lot of birdies. This is going to be tough. And I got to a good start. I hit a really good iron shot into my third hole. And all of a sudden it was something clicked. And I just got that that feel that little technical thought and things just started happening. I just started making a lot of birdies. It's really strange. You don't know when it's gonna come,

and I wish I could channeled all the time, but it seems like kind of an impossible dream. Well, yeah, not one person in the history of the world has figured that out, which is like, what is scary about golf to me? We've all had those days where you come home, and you're like, I got it. I got to figure it out.

And then two days later, it's just not there, and you can't capture whatever that thought was that you had go on, even if it's a driver's swing thought or a putter swing thought or something like that but You're in a unique position where like Your your world golf rankings trying to catch up with where all the advanced analytics say you are in terms of I always I always go to data golf.com was guys have great metrics and they've got you as the 17th best player in the world right now. The odds makers, you are near the top pretty much every time you tee it up, of course, depending on the field and whatnot. But without a win yet, you find yourself

like amongst these guys that you beat very, very often. I'm kind of, I'm not sure what my question is related to that. More so like, how do you feel entering a week? Like, do you feel very much like I am better than most people in this field? Or do you still feel like you have a ways to go where you can feel that? Yeah, that's a loaded question. I would say going into the week,

I'm not looking around too much. I'm just trying to get prepared for the week. And I would say sometimes I definitely feel like I have a lot more firepower than a lot of guys out there. And so going into the weeks, I'm usually very confident. I feel like I can win each week. There's very rarely a week where there hasn't been a week on tour where I look at the leaderboard

and be like, man, I just couldn't have done that this week. And so for me, that's a really comfortable feeling that I know when I play my best, I will have a chance to win. And I don't know. Sometimes I feel like I'm not playing great and I'm near the lead. And sometimes I feel like I'm playing great. And I'm a few shots back. It's really just kind of a silly game.

And I would say, a lot of that is, I really don't know how to explain it. To be honest, but like you said, it's just kind of a weird place to be, but every week I feel like I can win. And I would say some courses should be better, some don't, but no matter where we're playing, I feel like I have a good chance to win. That's interesting. I feel like I should have a follow-up to that. I feel like I'm near the top when I'm not playing great,

but I think that, I think I just speaks to, you know, you'd be very comfortable with where you rank in the game, you know, if even if you're not playing great and you see yourself up there, that's gotta be a good sign to come that you're gonna give yourself plenty, plenty of chances. Couple, go ahead. I was gonna say, I feel like one of my best skills

is playing good when I'm not playing well. I think that's why I had a pretty consistent year last year. There's a lot of times my game wouldn't feel like it was in a good place. And then all of a sudden, a little something would click and I'd be able to play well. And so for me, just kind of looking at that, just knowing that no matter how I feel going into the beginning of the week or where I'm at or how much I've practiced or if I'm tired or not, I feel like I can still go out and play well. See, I feel like that's something that a lot of guys chase

is making their quote unquote bad golf or average golf, elevating that. You know, it's something that I feel like I hear a lot of guys talk about. I'm trying to raise my floor. I'm trying to get more consistent. Like pretty much everyone seems very comfortable with how good their good is.

You know what I mean? Like, you guys, everybody out there can take it deep, but how do you find that more than 10% or 15% of the time and make the remaining 85% extremely valuable? Seems to be like, even Tiger has seemingly tried to pursue that over his career. Yeah, for sure. I think that's what we're all chasing is consistency.

No one, I mean golf is such an imperfect game and we're constantly chasing it. And I would say, I think one of the greatest skills a lot of the best players have is managing their way around the golf courses. And I think that's something that I really and focused on is managing your way around the golf course. So like what I was saying about Cornfairy Tour versus PGA Tour, like how the misses are just a lot smaller. And on these tour courses, the major championship courses, guys are still making a ton of mistakes when they win. And it's just managing your mistakes

and your misses and putting the ball in the correct spots. And like, for instance, when Jordan was playing his best golf, I think that's what he was tremendous at. Was just putting the ball in the correct spots and just being able to play from there, just using his talent. I mean, it was awesome to watch. Well, I got a couple of grab bag queer questions

before we let you go here, but one thing I found interesting just kind of been in researching your amateur career and whatnot was, I don't know what age this was or how what the actual growth was, but you hit a enormous growth spurt at a certain point of your junior career and it seemed to really helped your golf.

What was that time period and what was the growth spurt? So I don't remember exactly what it was. My swinging instructor Randy, he likes to exaggerate a little bit, but it was something crazy. Just going into my freshman year of high school, I didn't weigh 100 pounds. I was like five foot two. And by the time I graduated, I was like six foot two

and weighed a lot more. But it was somewhere around my sophomore year of high school, I just sprouted up like seven or eight inches in a year. Something like that. It was it was wild. At the time. It did not help my golf game. I was swimming at all walkie and I took me a little while to grow into it. But it helped my basketball game. So that was nice at the time.

What was your basketball game like? Were you more of a multi sport athlete than just a straight golfer? Yeah, so I played basketball all through high school. Mostly just gives us what my buddies were playing. But I was like, I'm not going to be a big fan of basketball. I'm not going to be a big fan of basketball. I'm not you more of a multi-sport athlete than just a straight golfer? Yeah, so I played basketball all through high school Mostly just gives us what my buddies are playing, but I had a ton of fun. I love basketball and a grocery definitely helped that because we're going into high school I was a lot smaller than everybody else. Well, we'll get you out of here on this one Everyone's got one shot. It may be there's more than one

But one that if you were to go back at shot tracker You can't even explain it something like the worst shot you hit or the funniest shot tracker that you have from this past year. What is it? Oh my goodness, worst shot. That's a touchy. Let me think. Any cold shags, any just anything that, you know, went backwards. I had a cold shank in a practice round. I had a cold shank at a practice round at Bayhalla. I was playing a money game. I think it was with Cameron Chan. And we get on this T-Box.

There's like 40, 50 people in the T-Box. And I had this cold shank off of number seven. And it goes across number six, almost into the pond on the right. The pond that's on the left on number six, I almost hit it into that pond off of 17. That was, it didn't show up on shot tracker, but that's on the left on number six, I almost hit it into that pond off of 17. That was, it didn't show up on shot tracker, but that was definitely the worst

shot of it all year. Oh, guy, we need something from an actual tournament. There's got to be one that you're just like, if, uh, thank God, this wasn't on camera or, you know, this got to be one. I got to think. I couldn't tell you. All right. That means you got it. That means you got to come back for a future episode because we got we got to get some. I'm trying to think I definitely I definitely cold-bladed a couple of bunker shots, but I can't remember exactly where they were. That's good. You're able to you know whitewash these things from your memory. That's probably probably a good quality. So yeah, I'm sorry, so I can't. I can't think of one. All right man, we're gonna let you go. I know you got a busy week ahead of you.

So best of luck with everything and thanks so much for your time and look forward to doing this again sometime. Yeah, thanks a lot. Appreciate it. Cheers. It's getting right club. Be the right club today.

Yes. Yeah. That's better than most. How about in? That is better than most. How about in? That is better than most. Better than most. you