No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 387: Holiday Medley, Part I

Episode Date: December 21, 2020

Part I of our 2020 highlights is live, with stories from Peter Kostis, Paul McGinley, Justin Thomas, Joe Buck, Rob Collins, Webb Simpson, Patrick Cantlay, Joseph Bramlett, Sophia Popov, Jason Bohn, Mike Lorenzo-Vera iHarry Higgs, Gil Hanse, Matty Kelly, Chris Kirk, Stuart Appleby, Brad Faxon, and Lanny Wadkins. Thanks everyone for the support this past year and in many others. Part II to follow shortly.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yeah! That's better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most! Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No-Lang Up Podcast. Final couple episodes of the year. This has become a bit of a tradition. Like a lot of podcasts, too. We didn't invent this, but a bit of a holiday, medley, kind of some highlights from the past year. A couple of goals out of this one is that, you know, maybe you skipped an episode that

the name wasn't appealing to you. You hear a clip from this and make sure you want to go back and listen to it. Or just something you may have heard earlier in the year, may have forgotten about and are entertained by the story a second time. I know that happens to me and I am sitting in for 99% of these interviews and I go back and hear it and think, wow, I kind of forgot about that story. So it serves a couple of purposes and it lets us kind of step away for a little bit.

We're going to take some downtime during the holidays, spend some time with our significant others and whatnot. And just want to take this time, I guess, to say my annual thank you to everyone that has listened to this show for the past, however many years from a little old podcast I used to record in the middle of the night when I lived in Amsterdam, talking on my iPhone and playing it on my iPhone and recording it on to from speaker phone, recording it back into my iPhone to somehow this being a full-time job. I also have no idea how you guys ever made it through listening to that level of audio

quality, but learn to finger too along the way. I hope we we are up this year to 120 episodes from I believe 82 last year. quarantine had a little bit to do with that, but you know, really stuck to a twice a week schedule this past year, sometimes three times a week. And we're not gonna continue to expand it much past that. I think we got a nice little rhythm to it, but definitely our busiest year ever for the podcast, which made putting these two holiday and medley episodes together quite a challenge,

because there is a lot, lot there. I didn't include anything in these from our little round table discussions. We had our wrap-up pods, you know, on Sunday nights, or any of the quarantine pods we did. That felt a little bit vain. More so wanted to highlight the brilliant guests that we had this past year that volunteer their time to share some stories, which is, of course, greatly appreciated. Those episodes we did do during that quarantine period are evergreen though.

Greg Norman deep dive, Phil Mickelson deep dive. Some of our better received episodes of the year, so you can always go back and listen to those at your own peril, I guess. So one hope we do have with this episode as well as tell people at the end of every year. I think it's a great representation for what this podcast is. I think there's a lot of great stories told hoping that people will pass this along to someone that you know, you think might like the podcast. It's a great sample of that and and it helps bring in new listeners,

which we're of course always looking to do, but at the same time, we dedicate our time and energy towards making content that we believe to be interesting for the listeners that we do have. We don't try to make stuff go viral. It's very much just kind of focused on the quality and hopeful people come over the years. So of course, want to give an enormous shout out

to our primary sponsor of the podcast and our primary sponsor. Basically, since the beginning, when we decided to make this a full-time job, that is of course, Callaway Golf. They make almost everything, you know, have from the beginning made everything possible. And I've been so great to work with, we're excited to continue the relationship yet again for another year. And they wanted to say, thank you as well. They appreciate all the shout outs of listeners have given the stories that they've shared about people and their friends using the clubs, using the ball,

whatever it is, feedback on some of the things we say about the products and how you've experienced it. Of course, we've seen all of our handicaps go down quite significantly. I'm sure of course there's some correlation with we're playing a lot more golf these days, but we've had a great, great time using their equipment and we definitely always give you very honest

and authentic reviews of the products and how they've helped us along the way. Of course, I should have obligatory mention that only DJ's handicap hasn't really fallen over the years, but that's a subject for another day. Once a year, I do ask that our listeners, that, you know, are loyal listeners of this show, go in and leave us a rating in iTunes or Spotify, I don't even know if you can do it in Spotify. Wherever you listen to podcasts, if you can leave us a review, hopefully five stars, if

you like it. That helps us out a lot in the ratings and the store and, you know, whatever, or in the, in the, whatever, the charts or whatever you want to call it. And yeah, I don't like begging for it, but don't, don't make me beg. Just go and leave us a review. If you appreciate the effort that goes into this. And of course, if you are just a podcast listener, we do a lot of other stuff. We have a robust YouTube channel with golf videos from all around the world.

We have a website that we're going to be working a lot harder on in 2021. We have a great merchandise shop store.noLangup.com. I mean, we've gotten, it's been a huge year in the shop. Let me just say what Neil and Tron have done with that has been just absolutely incredible. And I know that a lot of you out there that are shopping in the store store.noLangup.. Are doing that to help support the content as well. It's great merchandise. Listen, it's fantastic stuff, but I know that, you know, we feel your support, I guess, in that regard that we know that you guys are shopping with us

to help support us and our small shop that does seem to be growing a little bit year over year. So that is enough for my soapbox. We're gonna get right into the highlights here. First up is our kind of, geez, this guy made some wavelengths. This is a highlight clip of the year for me. Peter Costis talking about the quality of telecast, you know, PGA tour broadcasts and talking his stories.

We're going to hear from Peter and more than one occasion in this little holiday medley. But we're going to kick it off with him. Thanks everyone for tuning in and all of the support. Let's just say that you know if you go back and check there was a couple tournaments and this is where the contrarian would be surfaces. I don't remember the first tournament but it was a rookie who won and I did the interview on the 18th green and, you know, I said to him, you know, congratulations. You're no longer a rookie, now you're a tour winner. And with that, you have a job secured for two years and you're going to go to Augusta. You're going to play in the Masters. How does that make you feel? That was roughly my question to the player. And then I got a phone call the next day from New York

and they had gotten a phone call from the commissioner and the commissioner was upset that I didn't say first off that he had one 500 FedEx cup points. And he didn't want me talking about majors. And so I said, well, you know what, I would be willing to bet my entire self worth, whatever that is, that the first thought that crossed that kid's mind wasn't,

wow, I've just won 500 FedEx Cup Points. You know, he knows he's got a job secured for two years and he's going to play in the masters. That's what everybody thinks, right? So I'm not going to be disingenuous and just pump up FedEx and be a spokesman for the tour. I don't work for the tour. So that started and then I did it again because they told me not to do it. So that's what I do.

And and if you notice towards the middle the end of last year, I stopped doing interviews for the winners. Even though I was walking with a group, they shifted it over to Amanda. Amanda does a great job. Don't get me wrong, but it was kind of like me being told that I wasn't listening correctly. This is what we're going to do. How does it work then in that scenario? So there's a partnership deal between CBS and the PGA tour.

So from a legal perspective or anything, are you contractually obliged to check any of the boxes here that we're talking about from FedEx to any of this stuff? I mean, what kind of actual power does the tour have in that regard to say that to you? Well, they don't have any power to say it to me, but they have power to say it to CBS, or NBC, or whomever.

Is this a common thing that they're dictating what is being said and how it works on the air? I think this is a common thread through this whole thing that the tour wants more control over what's being said. I think they want more cheerleaders on the telecast, more people who are going to quote unquote promote the tour's product, which, okay, now we're bridging into the stuff that people are really upset about, the quality of the telecast. And I will say this, from the bottom of my heart, I believe this, that no one in management of a network or

at the leadership of the PGA tour gives a rat's ass about the quality of the telecast. They don't care about the quality of the viewer experience. They don't care about anything other than promotion. You know, and I learned this, I listened to it, and I listened to it like twice a year. The lost interview with Steve Jobs. If you haven't watched it, go watch it. Because it had to do with the time when he left Apple and they brought in John Scully from Pepsi Cola. He ran Apple as the CEO and they kicked Jobs out. Scully was Pepsi Cola. That's your product. You market

it. He tried to market Apple and it went in the tank because, as Steve Jobs said, they took their eye off the ball. They took their eye off of content. They took their eye off of product development that people want. They took their eye off of innovation. I don't think anybody at the tour cares about the product, vis-a-vis the viewer, and at CBS, they have to turn a profit. They're a publicly traded company.

When the tour keeps upping and upping and upping, the rights fees, CBS has to get that money back somehow, hence a Gajillion commercials. Right? Yep. And then the tour, the tour goes to, you know, the Cornfairy tour and they say, okay, we're going to, you give us this much money to run the Cornfairy tour, we're going to give you so many pops on our tour telecast. You know, they go to FedEx, you give us the much money to run the cornferry tour. We're going to give you so many pops on our tour telecast You know they go to FedEx that you give us the money for the FedEx cup and then we're going to mention FedEx X number of times We're going to have FedEx updates FedEx this FedEx that and and so they use the telecast to pay off if you will

people who bring money into the tour and It clutteres up the telecast to know in I mean pay off if you will, people who bring money into the tour. And it clutters up the telecast to no end. I mean, we have to show a corn fairy highlight that with as three people in the gallery, and it takes, I don't know what, takes a minute, minute and a half. I mean, that's a bunch of golf shots you could show. And so they are interested in marketing the product.

They're not interested in the quality of the product. And I believe that from the bottom of my heart. Underrated episode in my eyes is Lanny Watkins. This was from January, episode 272, talking Ryder Cup, Sevy, a bunch of other stuff. Lanny Watkins episode 272. Well, I mean, I've always, you know, because he was such an integral part of it,

it's probably always Sevy. You had to get back in his face. You could not let him intimidate you. I was gonna say, did you ever have any personal run-ins? Yeah. First hole, 1985, I think, when I'm playing with Marco Mira in the morning, the second day, at the Belfry. Second day at the Belfry in the morning the second day at the Belfri.

Playing the second day at the Belfri in the morning, Marco Mira and I are playing Sevi and I think Manuel Penairel, going on the first toll, best ball. We get on the green and I've got about a 20, 25 footer for birdie Sevi's about 12 feet. His coin's in my line, I had him move it. I pulled my put, it hit his coin, bounce right, it went in the line I had him move it I pulled my put it hit his coin bounce right went in the hole He was living you had me you had me do that on purpose you get me move my coin so you can make that put I said yes

I got right in his face. I said yes, I mean I'm that blanking good. Don't forget it First hole this is on mirrors first router cup ever. He gets his white as a sheep standing on the first Green light. What's going on? I said, I love it. Let's go kick the we had him six down and six to play. Oh my god. That's amazing. But I mean, the first hole I pull a butt hit his coin goes and he just I did it on purpose. That's the only I can make the putt was aim at a dime. You know, over here 15 feet from me, I'm gonna try and bank it off this dime to get it in the hole here right. I'm that good. So I can't buy a shit.

Yeah, I'm that good. Don't forget it. You know, just writing this face. Well, Zinger tells the story too of at the bell free, I forget who was, who was, somebody came up to him before, he's getting ready to play Sevy. And before the match, somebody comes up to him and he's getting ready to play Sevy and before the match somebody comes up to him and says don't let him pull any stuff on you and so like the second hole he has a scuff on his ball

and Sevy is like I'm taking this ball out of play and Zinger wouldn't let him do it. When he's like looking back at his fingers like I probably should have let him but I had this mindset of like I'm not letting him get away with anything so I mean how I mean where does it start I mean how much of a reputation do you you already have to have. He had a he had it back from day one I mean, how, where does it start? I mean, how much of a reputation do you, do you already have to have? He had a, he had it back from day one. I mean, I played him, I played him four times in a row to count. I was four and no against him. So that was a good start. So Larry Nelson, I beat he in Antonio Garrito, three straight matches in 79. So, you know, and then Larry beat him in singles. So,

Sevy is very first rider cup ever. He lost four matches to start. So, but you had to, you, you know, he just was, I know when I was captain, Tom Laman was going on first against him, and Curtis Strangler and I both got Laman and we told him he's, he is going to pull something. Go right back at him. Don't let him get the upper hand. It won't make sense what are you trying to do, but just go right back after him. He did on the 12th hole, and layman went right back after him, layman beat him.

I was gonna say, it's always just weird to me how that approach almost gets celebrated. And it sounds like from your perspective, it's not something that should be praised nearly as much as this. No, not at all. I think it's I think a lot of the antagonism in the Ryder Cup came from from Savius behavior, you know, being in everybody's business. I think, you know, he what the things he did would probably take us off so much that, you know, we would get more upset at what was happening and you get more defensive on stuff.

So there's no question. I mean, I think he was, if there had to be an antagonist going back and all the ride of cups and when everything started, I think the arrow points directly at Sevy and no one else. First time that he played in 79 Larry Nelson, I played him. And each time we played he and Garedo, we beat him worse each time. We beat him two and one, then we beat him a hank three and two, then.

When we beat him five and four in Austin shot, that was a day I'll never forget, because we're playing in the afternoon. And I birdied the first five holes. Larry birdies six, I birdies seven, Larry equaled eight, we were nine under through eight holes. We ended up birdie six, I buried seven, Larry equal to eight. We were nine under through eight holes. We ended up, you know, I had a two footer,

I had to two putt from two feet to close them out five and three or five and four, whatever it was. Well, seven didn't give it to me, so I just, I just backhanded it in. You did it back then. Oh yeah, 100%. Next up from episode 371, Maddie Kelly, who

caddies from Mark Leashman came over to Kill House to help us preview the Masters. Total bunch of great stories. And this one from the 15th hole is one of my favorites. And we're going to hear again from Maddie later this week as well, because he shared some gems with us. Episode 371, Matty Kelly. Flamengo Tiger and Tommy Fleetwood.

We were on the left side of the 15th fairway, and we'd actually talked about it, maybe not that week, that year, but the year before, because the grandstand right of the grain is perfectly such like it, that's where you wanna hit it, but they've got the grandstand there. So we always said, if we're on the far left, you could almost just hit it out on the 7th, 8th,

and you're gonna get your drop either side of the grandstand and then you got a pretty easy chip. Not easy chip, but it's going to be. See these are things that guys think about. Feed down to the pin. So sure enough, we didn't left side and we got a far line. Mark does this sort of stuff on the range too where he can hit a 50, he does bubber stuff where he hits 50 yard cuts and hooks. Doesn't really do it on the golf course, but this was the perfect chance. And we're like, mate, if it goes on the golf course, but this was the perfect chance. And we're like, mate, if it goes straight, that's fine.

So I was like, all right, and then he hit this unbelievable looking shot, but it sort of dips in the animal, oh, that's gotta go. And you can see on the coverage it lands right in the upslope and takes all the heat off it and just trickles around to five feet. And then Marko Selsa's story that he hit his shot

and he's kind of running around to see it where it is and so that it landed, it's on land and then Togger is, well I guess I ain't fucking lying up now. He's like battling to make the Cod, he's maybe one inside the cut-on and I can't remember where he hit it, but yeah, that's tight. That was a, I'm like, great shot. Just a long land off.

Just a long land off. Oh, fuck it. So yeah. I never heard that part of the story. That's pretty cool. What's it like to play with Tiger at a Master's? Yeah, I mean, it's always. I mean, I said we played with him the last round

of the US opening up Pebble. And I remember him walking off the first tee. It's just like no matter what happens today, it's gonna be a cool day. Because he's my hero. Like golf hero, it's, so it's hard to beat any day with him. But then, you know, he's singing play like golf course

and tons of success obviously in the way. like golf hero, it's, that's hard to beat any day with him, but then you know, he's seen him play that golf course and times of success obviously in the way he But he does it at every golf course, he hits the right or whatever the shot calls for he tries to hit up and tries to pull it off. And the way he places his ball around there, it's cool to watch. You guys play with him a lot. A lot. Yeah, we did. Yeah, we went through a stretch there. It hasn't been as much lately, but yeah, we we went through a stretch.

Whatever year that was, it was the 17 or 18, him and Tommy. And then that year, we just happened to get both of them at the same event. But yeah, Tommy Floyd wouldn't target. It was every other week. Because it doesn't seem to bother Leish playing with around that mayhem. I know, obviously, there's no crowds this year. But like, it doesn't, he seems to just be unflavable. Yeah, I don't know if it's because he's done it so much now, or, but he's always kind

of just throbbing that. He's rookie year. We play with Tiger in the last round of the BMW and that's what got us in the two-inch amg ship and effectively won in the rookie the year and shot a Berge free 69 or two or three under whatever it was. So he likes it. He chats to him the whole time and tries to get comfortable that way and and now that I mean it must be 20 or 30 times I play together now. So, you know, Tigers donated to Mark's foundation, start for auctions and so they somewhat friends. Yeah so cool doesn't bother me at all. Next up episode 349 this is Mike Lorenzo Vera sharing the story about some old spending habits he had when he initially came into professional golf how he basically ran out of money and yeah I'll let him tell the story. Yeah, I believe that the first mistake was to think that playing golf is, in-performing

golf, is only practicing your golf, so that was a first mistake. So it's so much more than that. I think I gave way too much to people as well. You give back to your family and friends, that's fine. But I was giving way too much time to journalists, way too much time to people who don't really know. New friends, have a beer here, have a beer there, lose your time, speaking, explaining things that I didn't even know. It was nice because you know in France people thought I was really gonna be like the player in France. I almost believed it you know because like the journalist was like okay Mike here Mike there the new star bro bro bro bro bro bro. But everybody was wrong there. They were wrong and I was wrong as well. So yeah that was the one of the biggest mistake i gave way too much time and what

gave too many things to too many people at this time and so you you talked about you know i guess this was maybe later in the challenge story years maybe in around twenty thirteen that uh... you kind of looked up one day and and realize that you were you were uh... much more in debt than you realize can you i wondering if you could tell that story. Yeah, well, I had a little trouble with the tax department in France. Let's say that. And one day, so how the meeting there, and they're like,

do you know how much you owe us? I was like, I have no idea. They're like, you are the guy that owes the most in the southwest of France. It's like fuck. Oh, that's going because I know some people that have had some debts already and I was like, oh, so it means that I have much more than that. And so they're like, you're you're about 400,000 euros. And I was like, shit, I can't even buy a beer with my credit card. I'm like, where am I going there?

Well, what happened there? How did you did you have someone managing your taxes or how did you end up exploring everything I remember? You were trying to do it. And well... Do you have an accountancy license of any kind? So if I had one, I should not take an ecosystemer. So yeah, I was just on a different planet. So

that's all it is. And my best friend was like, man, you're in deep shit there. I was like, come on, nobody's gonna put me in jail for that. Or I will not be able to pay back. And he was like, yeah, you're right, but you're fucking crazy to be still relaxed in that situation. So were you relaxed on the interior though? On the moment I was really relaxed. I was like okay so that's a lot of money but if I play good golf I'll be able to pay back. The thing is that when you don't play good it's pretty hard to not pay back. So it took a lot of time but the thing is that the more time I was taking the more important things I had in my life,

like kids and wife, and you still see the bills coming, and I was like, oh, that's where it gets really nervous, you know. Like, getting a nut, you know, I was getting adults for the first time, and that's all this taxes thing that were coming to me. So yeah, at the think I was not stressed after I was really stressed? And that's the thing though about earnings as well. And I imagine

this is even more so in the European tour than the US tour, but you know, people look at like someone's career earnings or their season earnings and they don't really think about the taxes that come out of that and the expenses that come with it. I mean, there's a lot that goes, you know, you know, if you make 480,000 euros in a couple of years, you're not taking home anywhere close to that, is that fair to say? Yeah, even less in France, which is one of the highest country texts in the world. You said in the blog too, you said, and trust me, I spent it really badly. So how did you spend your money badly? So for an example, it took me time to pass my driving license

because I was always saying that I didn't have time for it because I was practicing too much. And honestly, it was not that wrong because I was spending ages at the golf course. And when I really had a bit of cash in my account, I went to Ferrari. I wanted to buy a 360 Modena. Okay, all right, no problem. Okay, when you wanted, I was like, okay, just let me pass the license. And then I'll just come pick it up. And the guy was like, are you joking?

I was like, no. You don't have your license. I was like, no, I don't. I was like, can you get out of here, please? So, yeah, he kicked me out. So that was this kind of, you know, stupid move. And after I was, you know, paying the drinks to everybody, like, proper rounds of drinks, big rounds of drinks.

So take us there. What are big rounds of drinks? Because yeah, you specifically cited, you know, bad decisions, partying and being very generous to everybody around me for, you know, part of the reasons I contribute to be being a debt there's got to be some good party stories in there along the way at least. Yeah, sometimes with some players, sometimes with my friends and you know I don't know if I could go like three times in a week out for like 10,000 euros the party. Yeah, that'll do it. Yeah, that's already 30,000 and yeah,, plus maybe this may be five, six

time in the year, plus all the other parties. And actually, I didn't win that much money either. I mean, now it could work. Because, you know, I do a few millions and, you know, a year or so. But at the time, it was, I don't know know how many did you say, 400,000, into yours. Yeah, you made 483, I think, in 08, no nine combined. So take the taxes out, take all the expenses from the coach to Caddie Brabara, not much left at the end. A quick break here to give a shout out to another new sponsor of ours this year.

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how much strain you're putting on your body, what are some of the habits that you have, what kind of effect they actually have on your body? Listen I enjoy a drink from time to time, but yes I see in the data that it hurts my recovery the next day, whereas you know, if I'm getting to bed, if I'm hydrating properly, if I'm on an intermittent fasting diet or something like that, I can see that my recovery is, you know, appreciably better. It is very noticeable trends and it's great to have this information. Lister's of this podcast can get 15% off their order at Woop.com.

That's WHOOP.com. If you use promo code NoLayingUp, again, that's Woop.com. promo code NoLayingUp for 15% off your Woop band. As I say this, I realized I needed to charge my, I slept great last night and let my Woot Die overnight. I really wanted to see my recovery score. Woot.com promo code no laying up. Let's continue on with the holiday medley.

This is episode 359 Paul McGinley from September, telling a story at the 2004 Ryder Cup. He told a lot, a lot of great stories in that episode. One, I highly suggest you go back and listen to it if you can, but again, episode 359, Paul McGinley. It was a different vibe. I mean, the captain brings the vibe, Chris. And you know, it was a different vibe.

Bern was a lot more serious guy than you certainly wouldn't be playing music in the team room the way we were with Sam. But that was OK. We all had a huge amount of respect for Bernad Langa, a real statesman of the tour, a stateman of the team, very dramatic in how he was going to captain. We knew that. You know, we're meeting at 7 o'clock, for Bernard Langer, a real statesman of the tour, a stateman of the team, very Germanic in how he was going to captain.

We knew that. We're meeting at 7 o'clock, meant to meeting at 7, not one minute past 7. We all knew to be early. He would wait even though we all be sitting down at 5 minutes to 7. He wouldn't come into the meeting room until it was 7 o'clock. I remember with a big long table, like a big board room table, in this mario hotel, I think we stayed in and outside of Detroit. It was just a generic boardroom table in this Maryville tower. I think we stayed in and outside of Detroit. You know, it was just a generic boardroom table. I remember looking around before when the meetings

and going, wow, this should be alive. We should have images on the wall here. This should be alive. We need to make, you know, if I'm ever captain one day or if I'm, you know, I'm going to have a team room that's alive. This is, you know, this is can't be just another Mary at boardroom that anybody uses. This should have images on the wall, it should have curtains, it should have carpet. And I started dream of all these things, which I ultimately put in place in 14. So Bernard was very, he was a lot more hands-on than me

as I evolved into B because I was formulating my ideas all the time. He was a lot more hands-on. He was gut-involved in what the players were doing on the course, something I didn't do. In fact, I did the opposite. I stayed away from the players when I was on the golf course. I didn't see my role as Talon Rory McElroy. It's a five iron rod and a six iron.

Be careful with the wind here. Or you need to do this. He impulsed or whatever the case may be. Watch the reading of this, put the guys in front, missed it by it, by over reading and or whatever. So what Bernard did, what was very interesting was he stayed on the par threes in generally pinpointed a few the par threes and there's one really good story here myself and party played Tiger and Davis on the afternoon of the second day. We were two down after two and we got ourselves back to maybe all square.

I think 13 in the open hills is the par threes. I'm pretty sure it's 13. It's about 140 yards or so. It's a two-tiered green, really narrow tier on top and a bunker behind the green. It's all of a distance control. We were all square and maybe one up at that stage playing it. No, we definitely had the honor. So it was Pawdick's T-shirt. This was the ForSums. And the crowd behind the T-box in a stand.

So Berne comes over in his very Germanic way and kind of gets it to was to get on his part of Quackluby going ahead. So the product said, Kadi, what is his Kadi, says whatever 143. He said, he said, what cluby going to hit in part of, says, oh 143, nice nine arm. He said, no, he said, I want you to hit wedge. And then product says to the Kadi, what's the curry? What's the curry for the top tier? The caddy says 135. He says, Bernard, I can't hit a wedge, 135. I won't get it on the top tier.

And Bernard said, I don't care. I want you to hit it into the slope and come back down to the bottom of the hill. He said, but that's going to leave a really tough body. He said, yeah, I want you to hit it into the hill and come back down to bottom of the hill. Make it look like you've hit a good shot. So, product being the beautiful player that he was,

I said, that stage. I don't know if you did. Don't have a ladenist career. He stood all over. He had a good shot. So, Patrick being the beautiful player that he was at that stage, don't know if he did it on a laterness career, he stood over, he hit his 135 shot, pitched into the slope, ball came running down the hill and all the crowd went oo behind and all of that and kind of, Patrick finished all of the discussed, but he kind of looked like he was disappointed and in fact he probably was, he was mad at Bernard even though he'd never admitted. And he picked up the tee and he kind of walked over the me. He looked at me with this really looked like I knew I was never going to do that. What's this guy doing? Next of all Tiger stands up, it's his shot and he plays

the most beautiful nine iron three quarter spin up, you know, loads of spin up in the air. This thing coming down really, really soft. It pitches two feet from the pin hard bounce into the back bunker. And he looks at Davis, he got crazy, so I hit that beautifully. So Davis goes into the bunker and he's got no shot. And he plays an unbelievable shot out. Just misses the flag, catches the tear, back down to where I was putting. I rolled a pot up to two feet, part of it knocks it in, we win the hole. The point being Bernad had stood on that tee. He saw the top tier with rock hard, he saw that nobody could keep it on the top tier. And he get part of the information

he hit on the bottom tier. And there's the value of a captain getting involved in what the players do. Next up, Justin Thomas from episode 294 talking about Tiger Woods and the President's Cup at Role Melbourne. So meticulous and how he went about everything, and pairings and what he wanted to do.

I mean, there was a chance we were gonna play together in Paris, so we'd done some practice with each other's softballs, and like that part I knew. And I mean, once we kinda both were on the team, or after he won Japan, we pretty much knew he was gonna be on the team anyway, but that kinda locked it up, and we were talking about it probably more after that He's like, well, what do you think about us? Do going out first?

It's present stuff on On Thursday and I'm like, dude, that's like that would be unbelievable and things like all right. Well, let's do it And you know, we kind of went back and forth He's like, what do you want to do this and you know, look in it? What he needs to do is a captain was the hardest part about when he could play because there were unfortunately a lot of obligations he had to do. And also with those obligations, his body wasn't going to be in the shape it needed to be in the play as much as we all wanted to.

So I was like, dude, I'm going to play with you whenever you want to go. I would take us against anybody and be happy about it. But you need to listen to your body. You need to listen, like don't be stubborn here. Like I know you wanna play. I want you to play. I'm like, but this is a team event. And like we need to win this thing. And I wanna win it for you,

just like all of us wanna win it for you. So if you need to swallow your pride and play two or three matches as opposed to four or five, like you need to do that. And he was great about it. We wanted to go out Saturday afternoon, but he was like, I can't do it. It was cold that day, he's sitting on a cart.

He's like, it just, he's like, I can't play. And you and Raker Rowan, you guys go back out. So it was really cool. Obviously, I'll never forget it since just the fun times we had. But for me, I don't know what it was. You know, it's like that. I don't know how much everybody remembers when they watched it. It's just the fun times we had. But for me, I don't know what it was, you know, it's like this. I don't know how much everybody remembers when they watched it. But just walk into the tee. You kind of, it's a lot of times it gets on camera, but it was a pretty long walk. And the putting your into the first tee, I don't know if you remember that. And often you're with your

partner. So you kind of wait for him or the he's putting him, putting up for chipping and you guys watch the tee together. And my dad always kind of fences up or the heat pot and since potting out for chipping and and then you guys watch the sea together and my dad always kind of fences up with me because he always says you know you need anything or have any questions and I'm I usually say no and he just says go get him and then he goes on his way so we're walking to the sea and kind of no one's really either tiger or talking with us on Thursday and he's like you ready to go get him? I'm like yeah and then I don't know why I didn't even think about saying it the night before, the week before, or anything, but it just kind of hit me and I just I kind of put my arm on a shoulder and I was like, hey dude, he's like, what's up? I'm like, I want to see that player that I looked up to my entire life thrown up. I was like, that's the target that I want to see this week. And he just kind of like, smile to wink at me and he just said, let's go. And I'm like, that was, I don't know why I said it. I don't know what it like into my mind, but it was a pretty cool moment.

And one, and I'll remember. Next up, Patrick Cantlay from episode 304, talking about a very difficult time in his life and reflecting on that another episode that was during quarantine that I think is a great insight to somebody who's going to be around the game of golf for a long, long time. And a lot of people don't really understand what he's been through the last three or four years, both with injury and personal tragedy. So here's Patrick Cantley, episode 304. Well, Kim had a really, I mean, I want to say I'm a little selfish here, but Kim had a really bad time as well. You know, I had just been told by a doctor you got to take a year off. This was like in January

and unfortunately the accident happened in February. And so I was already extremely low and this just blew whatever lows I was feeling completely out of the water and I was at a different low that I didn't even know really existed. That really made one of the darkest times in my life even darker. And I just, I really, it felt like, it felt like I didn't, it felt like everything was totally worthless in meaningless because it was just such a tragic point in my life

where it felt like everything was a complete nightmare, almost to the point where it isn't real. And so, it was hard to experience that and accept it, and then try and grow from it or try and like build yourself out of it. And ultimately just took time, not only from my back, but also to kind of accept and get to a place where Chris's death doesn't actively disrupt my daily life and my ability to connect with other people. I'm always gonna carry it with me and it's always gonna be a defining moment in my life. And that is how it should be. He was a defining character, a defining friend of my life.

And he meant a lot to me. You know, it was really hard. And the, I'm still learning lessons from it. I'm still dealing with it, I think, but as time goes on, it becomes time is the greatest here. It just becomes less and less of a disruptor in my life. And so, it's been difficult, but it definitely has made me who I am today. Next up, episode 321 was Stuart Applebee, a very underrated episode, if I may say so. It was kind of the same week as the Jim Nance interview.

And I think it kind of got pushed to the back burner, just a little bit, but incredible storyteller, incredible story. Someone I definitely want to have back on, but highlight here is him talking about the O2 British Open. Again, this episode, 321 was Stewart Applebee. I don't think about it at all, but when guys like you bring it up,

it really pisses me off. And I mean that just in a mild sense. I don't get angry, but I'm like, I look back and go, how the F did they come up with that? Now, I actually know the answer, but it's a ship answer. The ship answer is, we've been paying in twos all we can, so we'll continue, we're paying in twos. So then all of a sudden, this is how they're trying

to tell us just as how it is, and I'm like, well, how the heck are we going to do this and explain it to us we're gonna we're gonna have you two go I go here and you two and I'm going how this is a comedy score how I mean it's I'm I'm hoping I'm thinking why can't Ernie why can't Steve Elkington it's more senior place than me go screw it you stuck your old bastard from the A&R and you don't know what you're doing. We are going to play in a four. This is my livelihood.

This is basically our tournament right now, four guys tournament. And no one wanted to drive the adrenaline through the roof, but it was, we just unfortunately accepted it. And I look back and look, I'm not bitching that I should have won the British because I believe the bright guy won't. I mean, that guy did it. But it was the weirdest feeling. It was almost like to me a dream,

like I'm floating above the golf course, watching this happen. But at the same time though, to be honest, I was very grateful that I got into the playoff, because I sort of really wasn't in the tournament. I was like, Holy cow, I got a chance to win the British opening, 25th Sense chance here. This is real. I think as a year's roll by, I sort of looked and went, holy cow, Stuart, you didn't get

many chances to win a major, very, very few in the context of my career. It was my dream tournament to win. And I sort of, I don't know, part of me is like, man, one shot, Stu, one shot, it's all you needed. One shot, there wasn't even a playoff. And I think that's the torture this game can do. You're trying to break out and win a major, because that was a dream tournament for us,

as always, he's watching that at 3 and 4 in the morning, before going to school on a Monday, or watching majors in the US and so on. You know, look, I would have been very fortunate to have won that. I would have come out of nowhere. But what a strange wrap up to a tournament. Well, I was hoping the answer wasn't going to be that, you know, they have some weird rules there about, you know, not being able to play four balls at Mirfield or only on certain

days you can. And I was hoping when you went to the British accent, I was like, oh, no, they're going to say, you know, we don't do that on weekends at Mirfield. And I was like, oh my goodness, if you're going to decide that championship on that, yeah, I'm not saying I decided to change it, but I can't imagine any sense in that. Because in 99, there was a three-man playoff. They didn't, the take wasn't, yeah, we've been playing in twos all weekend, so we can't send you off in threes.

But that's a little different scenario. But I always found that so bizarre and I can't, I don't remember what that vibe was like what I had to be just be an odd, odd feeling. Oh. It's funny, because you've still reminded me of another thing, like if I ever see this happen again,

I'll be home, you might even hear me yell through the TV, like, no, you're not doing this, you bunch of, you know what? Because it's almost the same thing happened in me yelling through the TV when Dustin Johnson at the PGA at Wistling Strait, so when he hit that ball, in the, can you call it a bunker?

Because only think the last appearance we were before that, I'd gone and played there in a commission, commissioners cup, I think it was called, where they invite a bunch of players, we go play with all the top CEOs of the tour, and we three months before the PGA, the first version of the pool, maybe something like that, we go out and play and the rule was the bunkers were going to be waste bunkers, that's what they were

told. Well, me being an idiot, I didn't read the rules for the week of the PGA. So I go out all week and I haven't hit it in a fairway bunker and I think on a Saturday I hit it in the fairway bunker on this one hole and it was over on where the spectators walked. So it was broken straw grass, put pranks everywhere and it was a fake rope going right through the bunker. So I go over there, I start grabbing dead grass and couple practice swings. What have you? I come in. The rules guy says to me, Stuart, let's have a chat about the stuff and such on the stuff and that's all. I go, what are you talking about? Do you remember any times you had a practice

swing? I go, oh shit. Why are we talking about this? He goes, Stuart, that was a bunker. And I go, I said a few words. My caddy nearly jumped over the scorecard table, I had to pull him away. I go, what are you trying to tell me, because Stuart S. A has it. You were having a practice swing, grounding a club, and pulling away debris in the bunker. And I'm like, mate, there's 7,000 footprint in the bunker. I'm supposed to play. Well, they're going to hit me with a four-shop penalty, I think it was. I end up getting him down to, I don't know, two or three or something like this. So that was a big deal. I end up, you know, that cost me a long way into the tournament down the leaderboard. But

why I saved it was I think I was the only guy who got pinged that week is when I saw Dustin Johnson in that thing. I'm just going, don't touch, don't you dare when I saw it really when it out unfolded and they were talking about the rules. I just felt sick for the guy. Next up is Jason Bone episode 342 telling the harrowing story of a heart attack he had during an actual PGA tour event, living to tell the tale and kind of all of the things that came from that. So episode 342, Jason Bohn. Yeah, that was a pretty crazy experience in my life to be honest.

I just never thought, and I'll be flat out honest with you, and honest with myself. I may not have taken care of myself in a situation that others would or, but I did everything pretty much in moderation, I would say. You know what I mean? If I had alcohol or if I had nicotine or if I did those things They were kind of all in moderation. It wasn't I wasn't I didn't do anything in my opinion that was just fully excessive

But I'm playing at the Honda classic. This was four years ago. So it had been 16 I mean the Honda were playing down there It's probably the Bears trap, it's probably one of the most difficult stretches of golf we play. The whole golf course is just hard. I mean, you can hit it in the water at any point, make a double bogey, and you're missing the cut.

And I just wasn't feeling that great. A couple weeks earlier, I had the flu, and I took a week off, and I got the flu out in Pebble Beach, and I flew home, and I kind of sat in my basement, and just kind of, I really literally, like quarantine myself from my family. And then I felt better, I went down to the Honda Classic

and this was Friday morning, I woke up and I was kind of, I wasn't feeling great but I wasn't feeling awful and I was like, all right, I just, I gotta get through today, I was kind of right around the cut line and I can't remember exactly what I shot but I know that coming in to the last four holes, I had to play them in even part right around the cut line and I can't remember exactly what I shot But I know that coming in to the last four holes I had to play them in even part to make the cut and the whole day as I walked

I just kind of felt like all right You know when like when your grandma when she tries to hug you But she just doesn't have anything and she's just squeezing you and you just get this little time to squeeze Well, that's kind of what it felt like every time I would take a really deep breath. It wasn't anything painful, it wasn't anything like strong. It was just like my grandma was just trying to give me a little bit of a hug. And I did that the whole day, you know,

kind of as I got through. And then the last few holes, I had some stress going in and just I made some great parts. And anyhow, I get done with the round and I'm like, you know, I don't really feel that good. And so I'm in the scoring trailer and I know we have access on tour to, you know, all kinds of doctors and things.

And I was like, hey, look, I probably just got to get a Z pack. I get to get me some rhythm. I sent something inside of me and to knock out whatever is going on in my body so I can get through this weekend on tour. And so I asked the scoring official, I was like, hey, can you call some doctors, paramedics, whatever, I just need some, I'm not feeling great, I'm gonna go in the locker room,

I'll just be sitting in there, if you could just call somebody and have them come down and meet me, that'd be great. So I'm sitting in the locker room, and these paramedics come in and they're like, hey, how you doing? I'm like, yeah, I'm pretty good. I just have, every time I take a deep breath,

I just kind of feel like my grandma's giving me pretty good. I just have, you know, kind of, every time I take a deep breath, you know, I just kind of feel like my grandma has given me a hug. I just don't feel like myself. I just know something's just a little bit off and I just was kind of open to get maybe, you know, prescription to get, you know, some sort of antibiotic and let me knock this thing out. And so these guys, you know, they're doing their job.

They're really diligent. They're great at what they do. And they kind of hook me up. They listen to my chest and then they listen to my heart. And then they're like, okay, we're going to hook up to like this little EKG. And so they did. And while I'm hooked up with this EKG, the guy says, hey, listen, I think you probably need, you know, I think we'd like you to go to the hospital. And I'm like, okay, I'm like, I appreciate you guys are, you know, maybe a little bit overreacting. I said, all right, I'll tell you what, I'll go,

but I'm staying right on site. So let me go take shower, you know, get rested, and then I'll go, you know, I'll go check myself in or whatever, and he's like, I don't think you understand. He goes, we're gonna put you in the back of the stretcher, and we're gonna take you to the ER. And I'm like, really? And I'm like, man, I just want a Z-pack.

You know what I mean? Like, I'm not looking for anything. And so they do, they strap me into this gurney or whatever they call it. They wheel me in the back of the ambulance. And on all my friends and everybody, I'm right out in the middle of the club and they're just gonna look at me, okay?

I'm like, I'm fine, man. You know what I said? I said, I think this is an overreaction. And I'm in the back of the ambulance, and the paramedic is talking over a walkie-talkie to, I guess I'm assuming the hospital. And all of a sudden, they said, hey, we want an IV in both of his arms.

And I just looked at this guy, and I was like, what the fuck? I mean, come on, dude. I just want a Z-pack. You know what I mean? I'm just like, yeah, when I'm at this guy, I'm like, I said, come on, dude. I just want a Z-pack. You know what I mean? I'm just like, yo, not this guy. I'm like, I said, I know we got great insurance on tour, but come on, this is ridiculous.

So at no point did they ever tell me anything that was going on? They really were great. They were like, hey, the hospital, you know, they kept me very calm. So I go in, we're wheeled in the ER, and I hear on the loud speaker above, out in this emergency room, wheeled in the ER and I hear on the loud speaker above out in this emergency room, they said,

cardiac arrest in room six. And as I'm wheeling, I look up and they're wheeling me in the room six. And that is how I found out that I was having a heart attack. I mean, as I just, it was amazing. Like it was so subtle that I just would have never thought that, you know, that was what a heart attack. I would think you have an heart attack like, I mean, it's Sanford and Son, you know, like,

I'm coming to you, weasier. I mean, you're grabbing your heart, you know, you're just screaming, like your body's just screaming at you, like, shut down. Just stop doing what you're doing. Nothing like that at all. So. Well, the reason why it scared the hell out of me is this, this something not too similar, but somewhat similar happened to me like two years ago. I had been experiencing some dizzy spells and went to a doctor and they gave me an EKG. And the guy looked at me and he's like, all right, this doesn't look right.

And then gave me another EKG and then came in and said, I'm sending an ambulance for you. Like I'm sending you to the hospital right now. And I was like drove myself there and I wasn't even feeling the pains that you were feeling, but I was like, no dude, I can drive myself there. And I drove there, and they thought I was on drugs. The guy had called ahead and said,

you know, we have a potential heart attack for the victim driving himself to the hospital. And I feel totally fine. And so they, as soon as I get there, they like wheel me in, there's doctors everywhere, hook him up to all this stuff. And I'm afraid I actually might be having a heart attack, but I don't feel like I am. And it's kind of almost like it eerily similar

to your story of like you were actually having it, they thought I was having one. And I was, they ended up, they explained it away later kind of what the issue was, but gosh, man, it just like scares the crap out of me to hear it. And I believe, what's the, the artery called, is it the, or what you went through, it was called the widow maker?

Yeah, my widow maker was 99% blocked. Oh my God. So yeah, it was just, it was a rear, it was weird. I guess to your point in your experience is like, anything that you just feel is different, you just kind of went, when it comes to that, you just kind of got to get it checked out because my doctor basically told me I was the story of You're a nap away from never waking up and that's just kind of what happens

And you hear that story all the time with like he just didn't feel well and he went and laid down And basically when your heart can't eject your ejection fraction of like how fast and how hard it can push your blood back out It goes backwards and it goes up into your brain and you're taking a nap and then you're just, you're done. On your way into the emergency room, I understand that there was, you were concerned about your status in the tournament. You were placing phone calls trying to figure some things out. Do you remember this part of the story?

I certainly do, yeah. It was pretty amazing because I remember that, so at the time, they had a rule that if 78 players or more made the cut, then there was a secondary cut on Saturday. And so then people would be eliminated. And now currently those rules have changed, but I kind of didn't like that rule because I was one of those guys that like

If I just could play maybe I could pick up something You know even if I was in last place I might get the sensation of this feel that I could carry him in the next week So I wanted to play all four days. I made a cut. I want to play all four days I don't care whether I'm in last place. There are some guys who didn't have that Philosophy and I understand why the tour needed to change those roles. But anyhow, that's a whole other story. But I am right at, I'm looking at the cut line. I'm like, hey, I'm gonna be like the 78th guy. And then I'm like, okay, if I withdraw,

then before the cut is made, well, I might not get my pension credit, which the PGA tour is a phenomenal pension. And every time you make a cut, you got a cuts plan credit. And I was like, but I made the cut. And just because I'm having an artifact, I'm not gonna be able to play tomorrow,

doesn't mean I didn't deserve to get that. So I'm like, I don't know what to do. I know there's no way I'm gonna be able to play golf tomorrow because the doctor, like I'm gonna have a stint in me, and I'm probably gonna have surgery that night or the next day. And I'm like, so I'm like, but if I withdraw now, then that could change

the whole numbers of the cut and I said, I'm not really sure how to do this. So I pick up the phone and I call Slugger White who's our main rules official that week and I'm like Slugger. I'm having a heart attack and I'm in this ER and I'm on the cut line but I don't know whether it was draw, not withdrawal. I mean, what do I do?

And so I'm like, he goes, well, you know, he tried to explain the same scenario to me if you withdraw before the cut is officially made, then, you know, you might, and I'm like, okay, well, here's a deal. I'm 99% sure I'm not going to play tomorrow, but I won't know that until the cut's made. So, I just, I said, I just want you to kind of know that if I'm the 78th guy,

that there's only 77 guys now going to play, they might not have to have a secondary cut. And I'm like, so I'm looking at also for my other competitors, because I know there are some guys who would love to just play one more round to go home. You know, get their, get their money, their last place, get their, you know, their one FedEx point or whatever it might be, accumulate to be, and then just, you know, they get home a day or their family. But I wasn't that guy, and I also know there are guys out there that are like, hey, you know what? This gives me an opportunity to try a new putter, a new driver, new equipment that I've been wanting to put in the bag and now I can test it in competition and so Anyhow it worked out I Which drew after the cut line?

I got my pension credit and only 77 guys played that weekend so they didn't have a secondary cut up Next one of the stories of the year the 394th ranked player in the world So Fia Popov wins the AIG women's Open. This is episode 347 the week after the championship talking about the emotions coming down the 18th and how she was able to enjoy it. I definitely did. I think especially after I hit the fairway. I needed to hit the fair.

So actually that tee shot on 18, I was super nervous. And I said, I'm not gonna hit driver just in case I, for some reason, totally vomit and get into that bunker. I'm just gonna hit three wood, we should be fine. And I just hit, it was so weird. I love hitting my three wood off the tee because it was always kind of a club that reminded me a little bit of, I'm a big Henrik Stenson fan

and I love how he hits his three wood off the tee. And all I could think of was like, just could think of was, just pull a hand right. Just pull a hand right. Just smooth as three-wood off the tee. And it's all good. And I hit a good tee shot. And after that, it was kind of like, let's just look around. And let's look out on the ocean, kind of all the scenery.

Everything you can usually really not see, because the grandstands are around and everything. So just take that moment in, because you can usually really not see, because the grandstands are around and everything. So just take that moment in, because you don't know when it's going to happen again. So just walking off that tee, I started really getting super excited and honestly pretty emotional, actually. I was going to say, you lag your put up to a couple inches. That's one of the best, my favorite moves ever

is when you mark the easy gimme to win a major championship. But I, it's rare to see it really cool as a golf fan to see somebody break down before they've even finished. It was unavoidable at that point for you. It felt like it was all this build up, but I don't, I can't recall seeing someone kind of break down emotionally before they've actually finished out.

Now I'm watching this like, oh my gosh, you're going to be able to put it like she's crying. What happens now? I was stable yet. It was, it was funny because I had put it in. I mean, I put it it so close that I knew even if I'm absolutely bawling and you know, you see everything ten times, it's like when you're like way beyond drunk, and you see everything like a million times because you have so many tears, I can still put this, like this is, I'm not going to miss this ball, like even if I, if I almost miss the face of my potter, this is still

going to go in, this is way too short. So then I was just, I couldn't even, I couldn't stop it because it was, it almost came out after I hit that putt onto the green. I was like, get it together, get it together. Like hit that first putt. If it goes in, obviously amazing. If not, you can just collect yourself again. And then I hit it that, you know, to that whatever, two, three inches, short of the hole and and it just automatically everything came out I

couldn't even I couldn't stop it like it was almost like my like the last six years just kind of started the pictures from the last six years coming up in my head and and you know everything everything that happened and I've been through and I just couldn't even stop it and And it was such a relief. It was kind of like finally I can just, you know, the there's so much tension for so long and you can just let it go and it's okay. And it's fine and you can cry because no one cares. You're in a spot where it's okay to cry. And yeah, just everything at the same time just came together

and the emotions were unreal at that point. Up next episode 326, this is with Chris Kirk reflecting on some, his struggles he's had with alcoholism and anxiety and returning to professional golf to win on the corn fairy tour this past year and just talking about some of the things he went through I found this interview to be especially captivating and appreciate how open he was about the struggles and the hope city Might be able to help someone else along the along the road episode three twenty six Chris Kirk You know at the time that you know a lot had led up to that and so that that was what felt like a real last resort for me,

an act of desperation to try to somehow salvage my life really. You know, I had first tried to stop drinking in November of 2018. That was when I kind of talked to some close friends, family, my inner support group on the tour and told them that this is something I'm struggling with and I'm gonna stop out appreciating support. It didn't go well. Kind of battled it for six months or so, multiple reapses and was just miserable.

I think that I definitely struggle more with anxiety than depression can lead to that. But I think my anxiety had kind of been building for a few years and I started drinking more and more as a way to combat that. And then once I took the alcohol, which was kind of my medicine away, my anxiety just got worse and worse. And so I just wasn't doing well. I was trying to control an uncontrollable situation. And I was thinking along the lines of, I can do this, I can do this.

And then, yeah, after, there were some F-sodes, and including the last time I drank April, April 28th, I count April 29th is my sobriety date. Just a few real wake up calls to like, okay, not only are you not completely in control of this, you have zero control over this. So, stopping playing golf, I kind of had to get to the point where I need to get away from

this because if I don't do something about this now and if I don't figure this out, then I'm going to lose everything anyway. So what does it matter? I didn't know what was going to be the result as far as from a tourist status standpoint. I didn't care. I called the tour and just said, hey, this is what I'm doing. I understand this is probably not going to be covered under any type of medical extension, and that's fine. You know, if I decide to play golf again, then I'll address it then. But for right now, I'm going to just get away from it

for an unknown period of time. And they were very supportive right away, and they didn't tell me anything right away. Andy Pascher, Ross Berlin, Jay Monahan, they were extremely supportive of me. We're really happy for me that I was doing the right thing and taking some steps to try to get back to a better place in my life. And Jay was great. He called me to check on me every now and then throughout the whole process, Andy Pazzer as well.

I definitely felt a lot of love and support from those guys. I was able to find the right people here and Athens people that are in a similar situation to me and really kind of get some answers as far as what was happening to me and why it was happening and find the right path for me to go down. Up next, Gillhance reflecting on the US Open at Wingfoot and the basically the future of golf. This is episode 358, Gillhance.

Yeah, it's difficult because we've had these times and maybe not to this extreme in golf where can we tiger proof golf courses. Now, can we Bryson proof them? We're ultimately talking you know about one guy and but of all of a sudden You start to see every kid that comes out of college trying to do this or this becomes I mean Matt Wolf Obviously hit it a long way and as you mentioned his Saturday round was you know it was pretty epic I Honestly don't know I mean I followed Bryson's group around on Thursday and Friday because

you know, he had these proclamations that I wanted to see if he could do it. And like I said, I doubted it, but he did. And congratulations to him. So it's not a beautiful way to play golf. It's not shot-making. It's kind of just bludgeoning. I feel sad about that, that that's really the way the game of golf is going, but also, like I said, it was impressive to watch that. I don't know. I think it's still a little too early. Hopefully we don't overreact. I still think there are some arrows in the quiver for the governing bodies. If all of a sudden we start to see this style of golf or ender architecture and strategy obsolete, then I don't.

I think the thing we've got to really, like I said, is I think it's still too early, but we've got to be careful not to overreact because at the end of the day he did what he did, but he put it beautifully. Yeah. I mean, he put it the crazy good. And he has shorted it. Well, and he had a good iron blood. Yeah.

Exactly. And you could see, I mean, for people who think that there's somehow or some way dumbs down the game, if you watch him, he's as smart as anybody. He's trying to figure out every single advantage that he can get. And he's thinking his way. You see, we talk about architecture and strategy and thinking your way around a golf course. He still did that. His thinking is in a completely different direction.

But when you look at the way he analyzed every single putty, he analyzed every single shot. And he, in theory, I haven't heard him say this directly, but he knew, single putty, analyzed every single shot. And he in theory, you know, I haven't heard him say this directly, but he knew like we said to miss if his if he was going to miss, it was going to be here. You know, he still is a very, very cerebral golfer, even though he's gone in the direction of just trying to overpower a golf course. Next up is episode three 28 with Joseph Bramlett. We had a great discussion this past July about race relations in the game of golf

as well as spanning, of course, his career as the national conversation around race increased. And we looked internally a bit to say, what can we do to help with golf reputation and race? We had Joseph on to chat about some of those things and share his insights. It's a great episode. Again, it's episode 328 and this is Joseph Bramlett. In your mind, like for two-part question, for someone like me, what can I do? What can we do as a group, you know, to help this movement forward? And what can people listening to this, you know, do to help

help encourage more black people and African-Americans in the game of golf. Yeah, that's a fantastic question. And I think what you guys can do and are doing is great because I think you have a great voice in golf. And I think that simply raising the conversation is a great avenue for you guys to help increase the word, increase the conversation, and increase people's awareness about it. What can the average person do? I think a lot of it comes with golf,

comes down to access and availability, and I think a lot of the young kids of color simply don't have the access to learn golf, to play golf. Most people's first interactions with golf is through their family and either their grandpa takes them out to their country club or or their dad takes them to play or their mom, but like this it's more of a familial thing and a lot of families of color don't have a history with the game of golf and some of that has to do with Access some of that has to do with just history and being welcome at the golf course

And so I think that if people can channel their efforts towards Trying to increase opportunity for for people to be introduced to golf People that historically would not have been introduced to golf. I think that's a really big step I mean, I think the first he's done a great job to a certain extent. I think there's a lot of organizations that are trying to bring golf to more inner-city youth. And I think that, I think that is where the change starts. And then I think 15, 20 years from now is when you really start to see the effect of that. Up next, Brad Faxx in episode 276 talking about getting into television, working television in a great Tommy Roy story. So it's funny you

said that because Jeff Slumman's a great friend of mine. He's just turned 60, played on the Champions League very successfully, had him made as many cuts as almost anybody and he got asked to do an event for Tommy Roy and you get thrown into the fire. Nobody gives you any instruction at all. And my one story about Tommy Roy giving me instructions is really funny, but Jeff was going to be on course, which is hard to do because you get the backpads the head so you can't see really what the viewers see. You don't have a monitor. And he got fired after the first day. And I thought Jeff Sloman would be an unbelievable guy on TV. Well, it's, you know, we've, we try to touch on this every time that we get an opportunity to talk to you guys.

Like, we don't, people at home don't understand all the things that are going on before it gets turned to you. Like, there's someone in your ear talking and you don't have as long as you want to talk. Like, you have a window. You don't really know how long that window's gonna be. At all. And you gotta talk, and hey, you gotta be, like,

insightful, entertaining, you gotta have kind of the characteristics of speech that you're talking about right here and say the right thing. Like it's a lot to balance. I work critical of a lot of things in TV. It's never like hey I want to do that job because it looks really hard to me. Did I ever, did I tell you on the first show about the first time I worked for NBC on the no shit story? No, I've not heard of it. This is pretty good.

And I was going to work for NBC in 2010. So I wasn't 50 yet. For seven events, high profile events, the World Golf Championship, a players' championship, the US Open, and some of the FedEx events. And I thought this was a great transition for me, getting ready to turn 50. So my first event, the World Golf Championship in D'Arral,

which was a newly renovated Gill Hance course, and it was one of those events where the players really didn't play much of a practice round, there's no program. So all of them showed up on Wednesday to play. You know, it was only 70 of you guys at field. So I showed up Tuesday didn't see anybody. On their all day Wednesday, we go to production meeting Wednesday night. And I'm like, I'm an outside tower.

Now I didn't know that the farther your tower was away from 18, the more you are lower on the Poptotum pole. And I was a peon. And I said to Tommy Roy afterwards, I said, okay, listen, I don't know what I'm doing. I had four monitors in my tower on 14. I had the fourth of fifth, the 13th and the 14th. What am I supposed to do? So he's kind of like mad that I'm asking him. He takes out this scratch piece of paper. He writes down number one in pencil and writes no shit rule.

I go, what's that mean? He goes, don't ever say anything on TV that's gonna make the viewer go no shit. And I'm like, okay, so what do you mean by that? He goes, well, Frank Nobolo does this all the time. I go, what does he do? He goes, well, he'll say, Ernie L's is sitting in chip, he's chipped, and it's rolling, it's stopped. The picture shows you that. Don't ever say that. Fair enough. And then he says a few other things. Like, you can't say, sand trap, you have to say bunker, you can't say pin place, you have to say, whole location, you can't say, three, some you have to say, grouping, and he kind of goes through a couple of the USGA rules. He goes, you'll be fine, he passed me in the back,

he kicks me out. So the next day, first day, it's golf channel. And novel is actually an attire with Kelly Tillman. And the first 10 minutes, they don't show a shot on any of my holes. So he says to me, Tommy Roy, we're coming out of break, he goes, hey, okay, we're gonna come back. You're gonna say, while we're away,

Ian Polter on number nine, that was the par three over the water. So I had five, nine, 13 and 14. So as he's counted, I hear this one woman's voice on my head, said, go, 30 back, and like that was a TV show or something, right? 30 back, and then I hear 20 back, and then at 15, Tommy Roy starts counting down.

He goes, make sure you get the name of the tournament, where we are, who's leading and give us a big welcome back. And he says all this in the countdown to 15. So I'm like, okay, we're back to you. Polter number nine. I go, big welcome back. We're at the WGCCA Championship, A& Polters T-Shot here at number nine. And he's going, make sure you stop talking before he hits.

So he's saying all this stuff at once. So now this is on tape, and I had to say it was while we were away. So Poulter hits his five iron, the balls in flight, and it lands like this, and I go a beautiful shot to three feet. No shit! You can see that on TV, it's three feet! Now live, Poulter for Birdie, I go, now live, Poulter for Birdie. I was so messed up and that that's how I started and I tell this a lot of like corporate outings because people have no

idea how hard it is and the funniest part was there's certain times when you're allowed to say that this is on tape and there's certain times where he plays like this is live. So on the 13th hole, which is one of the most difficult par threes on the tour, Robert Allenby was getting ready to hit his tee shot. And it was on tape. I didn't know, but I was playing as if it was live. And I hadn't seen my monitor to see that this shot had already been hit. So he goes, Allenby tee shot 13 cycle, Robert Allenby here with his five wood. And I had this one

nugget on the hole. You always had to have a nugget This is the least hit hole on tour and regulation and The wind was blowing you can see any well to the left here allowing for the wind Well, he hits this shot lands on the green goes in the hole for a one and I go crazy and I'm like My gosh, so then we go to break and the whole team's like in my head second Oh my god You played it like you didn't know that sounded so good. And I'm like, I didn't want to say, I had no idea.

That wasn't live, but I learned a lot. Next up, this is Rob Collins, the architect, of course, of Sweetens Cove from episode 315, talking about all the things that that place has been through and how they ended up getting Peyton Manning and Andy Brottick involved with a little nine hole course in South Pittsburgh, Tennessee, episode 315 Rob Collins. We knew we needed the right group and the conversation and the tenor, the negotiations with Mark and Skip and were completely different than anything I'd ever encountered. For the first three years, it was always just total dismissal from people.

Like, oh, they'll never work here, basically an idiot for doing this. And then it was like, oh yeah, this place is amazing. We want to steal it from you. Mark and Skip were like, we want to be partners and we want to give you the rocket fuel that this place needs to really take off. And as it turned out, we cut a deal with them.

And Mark was really good friends with Andy Roddick. And Andy was part of the group. And another guy named Tom Nolan, who is really well connected in the golf industry, used to run the golf's Ralph Lauren division and is very well connected. He's part of the ownership group. And it was just a dream scenario.

And that all came about right around the time of the ringer. And I believe it was in March of 19. We were kind of sealing that deal up. Sealing the deal up. And so you go out to dinner with Mark, I believe. That's right. Yeah. To settle it. Yeah, we actually, Mark and I, we had a deal in place and I was going to get to go meet Tom Nolan for the first time. I'd never met Tom. Mark said, let's go. We're going to go out to dinner and Tom's coming in town and we're going to meet him.

And I'm like, okay, great. That's awesome. So we went to this Ruse Chris steakhouse and I'm sitting at the bar with Mark and my back's to the door and Mark goes, oh hey they're here and I thought, they, that's kind of weird. I thought we were only meeting Tom and I turn around and walking towards me is this guy that's one guy that I assume was Tom Nolin. The other guy definitely wasn't Tom Nolin, it was Peyton Man. And Peyton walks up to him and goes, hey, I'm Peyton Manning and I'm sure. I said, hey, I'm Rob Collins. And Mark

goes and he's your fifth partner. And I just, it's like holy shit, unbelievable. And walking through a crowded restaurant on a Thursday night and chatting nigga to a back room behind Peyton Manning and looking at the lookstone people's faces. It's the funniest thing I've ever seen. I mean, how do you go from... I mean, he's, you know, people just like, oh my God, that's Peyton Manning, you know. Yeah, he has a way in the States to go for sure, but it's like, how do you go from everything you're talking about from 2013 to that moment?

It was insane. I mean, I texted Denise and I said, you'll never guess who the fifth partner is and she texted back and she goes, Peyton question mark. And I was in that center of this gift of one of Peyton and that one of those commercials where he's nodding his head. And then I texted Brent, Brent's a huge Tennessee fan. I said, you'll never guess who the fifth partner is and he goes, oh shit, I'm gonna shit.

Is it Peyton? And I was like, just wait till tomorrow, you'll see. And you know. And I believe you relate the story of you calling Patrick. Didn't you give Patrick a call and say, ask him the question like, who's the? Yeah, I said Patrick, who's the one guy we want? Peyton?

Yep, Chapman. It was just unbelievable. It was just, I mean, every time I read Will's piece, I get choked up in the restaurant scene. I mean, it gets me every single time. I just can't believe that it happened. We were so close to dying so many times and then to like hit a walkoff grand slam in the bottom of the night for the World Series like out of the stadium

Bat Flip. It was insane. Next up episode 333 this is Joe Buck shortly after the Fox US Open Deal ended up getting blown up, reflecting on some time spent covering golf and bringing the end of an era that hopefully changed golf coverage for the extended future. So episode 333, Joe Buck. I think that's the best compliment that Fox golf can get is that, you know, we jumped in. We were in it for five years and a lot of the stuff that

we tried and I say we had nothing to do with it. People, you know, that we're working in the technology and the things tried have been picked up by other networks that have been doing it forever. So that's that's part of it. I don't know about the polls. I don't know, you know, the online stuff. I don't really, I don't know. I don't really care about it. I do know that people that I talk to get it because I do know that they understand how hard it is to do golf. You know, I remember back when Fox got the rights and Johnny Miller, you know, everybody at NBC, they were so mad and bitter. And I get it. It took a big chunk of their golf calendar away, or at least one of the crown jewel events away. And he said, you know, you just can't fall out of a tree and do the US open. And I remember reading that going, well, how dare he, you know, but, but he was right, you know, you can't do it and get better at it until you do it.

And that's just kind of how TV is. You have to get in there. You have to find out what works. You have to find out what doesn't. And you have to get reps in and improve. And I would say that from where we started and how we want about things to where we ended, It was a great five year run. How it's judged or what average fans think or whatever.

Until you've sat there and done it, and I didn't know before I did it. Until you've sat there and done it, you have no clue. So it is not easy to do. And I'm proud of the progress we made. And everybody on that crew, I mean mean they're going to be friends of I for the rest of my life. I mean I made some of the best friends in this business doing this golf package from Mark Luma's on down. So I don't know, it's got a good feeling to me. And I say that knowing that

it was not ideal to lose the package for a lot of people on our golf coverage, but man, it was a hell of a lot of fun. Next up, Harry Higgs, episode 351, talking about one of the hot topics of the year, which is of course Bryson, the distance he gained, and I always like getting other pros' perspective on how it's happening, how he's able to do this, and how freaking far it's going. Episode 351 hairy higs. I mean, I'm pretty sure I could go to Corey and say, hey, I want to swing it two, three, four mile an hour faster with every club. And we could probably accomplish that in an hour, you know, in the hitting day.

Relatively easily, I would assume. But then to be able to do it day in and day out, and then he also made a jump of like 10 to 12 mile an hour different, you know, that's freakish. That's like, whoa, that's not that's truly not normal. Everybody, I mean, I'm sure if you looked at people's like average clubhead speeds, I'm sure over the last three or four or five years, almost everybody goes up a mile an hour to every year. And then at some point you'll plateau, and that's as fast as you're gonna move a golf club. Bryson just blew it out of the water. Like he made the jump to the top, like way up to the top.

And I know he said he's kind of, the last couple of weeks he's kind of plateaued a bit. He's not seeing the same words, even once started playing he started still was able week after week to add a mile an hour or two or to add a couple miles an hour in ball speed and he's not quite doing that right now. Maybe he did plateau maybe he is as fast as he's going to be but I would not put it past him to break through that ceiling of speed and then start doing you know hitting the ball even further Yeah, which is just it's just ridiculous to me. I mean it goes so far

It's unbelievable the last clip we're gonna share here in part one is from web Simpson This is episode 308. I've watched golf for a long long period of time And I don't think I've ever heard Web Simpson talk for more than 30 seconds. I found this interview, especially enlightening some of his stuff that we're about to get to on the anchor band and how it had an effect on his putting and his career was very interesting. So I highly recommend that this episode, and stay tuned for later this week. We'll have part two of our holiday medley. Really appreciate everyone listening and your support on one final time. Episode three, oh eight, Web Simpson.

So, I went to Wake in 04, Wake Forest freshman year, and I go to Pinehurst for Thanksgiving break, and I'm going out to play with my dad. And at the time, like I had grown up being a great putter, but I had become a very streaky putter. And in the pro shop there, at Country Club North Carolina in Pinehurst, they had a big ping-billy putter but I'd become a very streaky putter and in the pro shop there at Country Club North Carolina and Pinehurst they had a pink belly putter and I putted it to one of those little things that spits the ball back out and I'm like man this thing feels amazing like it feels awkward but like

I like it and so I asked the guys in the shop and said hey can I take this out for nine holes they said sure well I go out for nine holes and I made everything and I ended up buying it and I went back to wake and honestly, like my teammates kind of made fun of me, like why are you using a belly putter? Like, it wasn't that common in 04, but I started putting a lot more consistently. You know, I don't know how different it made my stroke,

but for no other reason than I became, you know, more confident, I switched for good. And then I used that same putter that I bought in that pro shop for 11 years until it was banned. I've had anxiety in the past, like I've struggled with that with putting. And then when I switched to the short putter, which was I switched the end of 14. So Ryder Cup 2014 at Glenn Eagles, we're packing up our locker after we lost and Paulie says, Hey, we're going to Dunlop Phoenix in a couple weeks or whatever, a couple months in November. Why don't we go ahead and switch the short putter, get a year under

our belt. That way we're not the focus come January 1, 2016 when it's going to come illegal. And we just go ahead and start working with it. And I said great. So, Dunk Not Phoenix 2014 was my first professional tournament with a short putter. And my first tournament with a short putter in like 12 years. And so, it was a struggle. I mean, those first few months were pretty good, but then it got bad. And then, you know, I was one of the worst putters

on the PJ tour for two years. Well, what is the struggle? What's the struggle? I mean, are you just, is it face path? Is it just a pure confidence issue? What is it? What changes in you from the belly putter to the short putter? Well, I think my stroke with the belly putter was naturally better.

For whatever reason mechanically, it just was better. And so when I went to the short putter up and my putting got really bad, I realized, okay, I don't know anything about putting. Like, I know nothing about putting. I'm gonna become a student of putting. So I started talking to guys who are great putters like brand, battle, great charmers.

And I started trying to figure out what they do well and why do they do it? Because, I mean, brand stroke looks a lot different than air battle, but they must do some things very similarly. So I started learning how do they put, how am I going to put and put well, and that led me to really researching the best putty method for me. And once I found the arm lock, I realized my stroke is better. My aim is better. I started a line and 2016 is when I switched to the arm lock putter. And honestly, Chris, like I got to a point with putting where I never thought, if you told

me, hey, you're going to become one of the best putters on a PGA tour, I would have said you're crazy. But I've had two years now where I've been like you know top 10 in Stroke's Game Clothing and so I'm just amazed that you know that's happened. It's getting right club. Be the right club today. That's better than most. How about in? That is better than most. Better than most.