No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 394: Mike Whan

Episode Date: January 20, 2021

Mike Whan joins to discuss why he's leaving the LPGA Tour, highlights (and lowlights) of his tenure, TV ratings, mixed events with men and women, what's next for the LPGA Tour, his thoughts on the USGA rumors, and a lot more. Always appreciate Mike's insights on the podcast and greatly appreciate his time.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yes. That is better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No Lang. A podcast, a solid here. We're going to get to our interview with Mike Wahn here shortly. We've got to tell you about a partner.

We've been dying to say something about. We can only talk about it. We've been embargoed until now. Rapps Soto. You may have seen some stuff come across. DJ's Instagram. I don't know if I've put anything up there on mine just yet, but we've been using these little devices from RAPSOTO,

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I just have it right on my bag right next to my rangefinder there. You can use it both indoor and outdoor. You can use it with nets. So go to wrapsodow.com forward slash NLU. That's R-A-P-S-O-D-O. .com forward slash NLU to get $50 off a mobile launch monitor from RAPSODO. Again, wrapsodow.com forward slash NLU for $50 off. Let's get to Mike one.

So I know you've been through a lot of these over the past couple a couple of weeks, but it was a four year plan. You stayed 11. What made you stay that long? I fell in love, you know, I fell in love with the mission, I fell in love with the people, I believe in these athletes and the caddies. And I'm a father of three boys. I raised three boys. I never really worried about the future of any of the sports my boys played. I never, I never as an athlete myself growing up. I know my lot of players by roller eyes that they heard me use my name as an athlete,

but as an athlete growing up, I, I never worried about the future of my sport. And then you, you know, you get involved in women's sports and you realize that these athletes don't take this for granted. It hasn't, it wasn't as good for their moms as it was for them. And it won't be as good for their kids. And they don't leave it better. So it felt important. It felt worthwhile. And the Beyonce, I just felt like I've tried to leave

a few times, I just felt like I couldn't until I got into a situation where I thought that the slope was nothing but up. Well, you were on in April when everything hit and a lot has changed since then. You know, we weren't playing golf at that time and there was just a big question mark as to what was, you know, what the future of that year was going to, you know, entail and what, you know, the future of the game was going to look like and all of that things.

But a lot has changed since then. So I kind of want to pick your brain and not focus just entirely on you moving on, but pick your brain on what the last year has been like and kind of, you know, what you were feeling back then, what sponsors were saying, were they panicking, were you guys panicking and looking back? Do you think it went better or worse than you thought it would have as of maybe March or April?

Yeah, there's a lot packed in that question. I would tell you that the answer is yes to all of that. I mean, we definitely went through a panic. I mean, I would, I want my wife who are sitting here and said I didn't shoot, she'd call BS on that. I mean, yeah, April I want Ladi of my wife who are sitting here and said I didn't shoot she'd call BS on that I mean, yeah April May was a panicky time with June July for me was high anxiety. We were coming back But I certainly didn't want to be responsible for any anybody or any or any company or any

Location that works so hard to get this virus in the control. I didn't want to be I didn't want to be a guy Didn't understand the bigger picture and then it got all the way back to pure, pure respect for my team and to watch my team take over this thing. And, you know, I was involved, but they were leaving it, not me. Anybody who tells you otherwise is just trying to be nice to me because I'm leaving. But I'm in the reality, but it was my team took over. And I had a really great front row seat to watch the team that I built through what they do. But yeah, we went through a period of panic where you know none of our sponsors knew what was next or did we. I mean I definitely had you know some some eye anxiety and then as we got playing and you just had to learn how to kind of work through it. I'm not I'm gifted with a few skills that

the Lord was nice enough to give me but patients wasn't one and I certainly wasn't built for 2020, but I built the team around me that was, and that was pretty gratifying. Well, it seems like in reading and seeing some of your other interviews that this pandemic was, or what you saw out of your team during this,

helped contribute to making this now being the time to move on. Is it safe to say that you just feel like things are in such better hands with the team that you have there that almost like your work is done here? Yeah, I think every leader thinks they're building a good team, whether they are or they aren't, they think they are.

You don't get the answer to that until you're really put under fire, you know? And 2020 was the ultimate stress test. When you reach the stress test, you either have the team or wish you did There's no building it once you get to that moment. Yeah, I wasn't expecting the ultimate stress test But I got it and I remember saying them. I was probably about July and I said You know I struggled with wins the right time to leave right and she said yeah, obviously it's not gonna be now

You were at the middle of that I said it's sooner than think, because I wouldn't want to leave anybody in a bad situation, or you just believe you're more valuable than you are. And I can take my name out of that hat and still make the same statement. It was also, like I said this many times, the worst year, probably in LPGA history, was also one of our most triumphants in the year. This was a great test to see how strong the LPGA really was.

I mean, we've been through some challenges in our 70 year history and usually a solid recession or a major curveball can really stumble the LPGA. But we're back in 21 with a schedule that's bigger than we announced in 20. We actually added sponsors. There were some pretty proud moments in 2020, not just the safety and the sanity of getting us through this, but we were actually growing in the middle of this, you know, in the middle of this fall back, and, you know, not losing a staff member or a player or a caddy in the hospital, you know, never doing that to a local market. We visited it, some seem like proof positive

that that this place was in good hands. And that's, I think that's what a leader is hired to do. Not only help furnish it around and get you going in the right direction, but make sure it can sell without you and but I saw it first and it really it really made leaving something that could be so what's it like to announce your leaving but not actually leave what the last few weeks have been like and what what's this you know time period going to look like and and also

uh... you know when is when do you think the date is gonna be yeah twenty i'm not a big fan of Lane Duck commissioners or leaders. So I mean, I'm not a fan of sort of announcing things. But there was, when I first told my board chair that this was, there's not made and we got through all the back and forth about it. And I think when she realized that, you know, I wasn't trying to get more.

I literally, you know, it was time. And I said, there are only have really one goal. That is any member, tour player, caddy, sponsor, teacher. I just want them to hear it from me. So the risk of that is, it's going to catch people off guard. And she said, I can live with that as long as you can commit to staying with us until we find the next one and help us select the next one. Because I'll tell you the other way, rather not to anybody for a few months while we do some searching. And then so it was kind of a compromise between the two of us.

I wanted to make sure that no player called me and said, hey, I heard a rumor, or some reporter called me to say, isn't true. So we announced earlier than I agreed to stay through the transition of the next commission. So it's not my preference. I always tell people that once you've announced, it's really never the same inside or outside the building. And I certainly don't want to be long goodbye tour, but I think it's the right way. One, I think my members got treated like the members they are and it enables me to make sure and help our board, not only with the selection process, but the onboarding process for the next commissioner.

Let's just say hypothetical for this question that the next commissioner comes from outside the LPGA tour, maybe outside golf, whatever. Let's just say it's, you know, somebody you need to, you know, kind of help the transition. What do your notes look like? What do you lead with? What do you, what do you need to pass on? What are the, what does the next commissioner need to know about things that are ongoing or just about the job in general? This probably won't be my finest moment, but I have a different point of view about transitions. I mean, when I took the job, they told me that the interim commissioner was willing to stay as much as six months,

and I said, how about six days? And I wasn't being difficult, I wasn't being disrespectful, but I think when you walk in the building, you need to be the leader, and you need to be the leader in the beginning, and people need to start coming to you with their problems.

And as opposed to you, you ease dropping on somebody else having a conversation. There's no faster way to learn how to swim than getting the pool. And so I've said the same thing. I'll stay if the new commissioner wants me to stay longer, but my guess is they'll just want me to be available.

So, you know, I'll walk through the people, I'll walk through the different boards, just sit on and, you know, the missions of the different entities, but I think doing too much transition is actually bad for the new person. I don't want the new person to feel like they're adopting Mike Lahn's plans. I want the new person to feel like they're adopting Mike Wands plans.

I want the new person to come in and look at 2021 and go, is this all you got? Come on, we can be better than this. Because that's the way I felt in 2009. I couldn't say it out loud, but that's the way I felt. I want the next one to feel like that, which is, hey, Mike, I've read the articles. That's nice. People like you, but we're better than this. That's the mentality.

I think we want to find for the next commissioner. So yeah, I'll take them through people. I'll take them through processes I've used. I'll take them through budgets that we've laid out. And then I'll encourage that person, male, female, wherever they're from, to not care about everything I just said. I mean, now you've heard my point of view. Now go create your own.

I walked into this building with probably 10. Sure I was right ideas about the LPJ and about 100 days in, five of them were wrong. So you know, you got to come in with your own ideas So I'll be available, but I but I'm gonna try hard to not be in the way sooner than later I just think long transitions the only people that makes happy are board members who don't sit in the business Long transitions to just slow down the transition process. So I want it to be sooner than later Yep, that makes a lot of sense I'm gonna ask you to brag on yourself a little bit with this next one

You've accomplished a lot in the last 11'm going to ask you to brag on yourself a little bit with this next one. You've accomplished a lot in the last 11 years, but what are you most proud of? I can read off the list I have here if you want, but I'm curious to hear as to what was most meaningful to you. Yeah, I've said this in so many player meetings. I've said this in a ton of staff meetings, you know, 20, 5, 30 years, and no one's going to sit down and talk about, you know, the founders cup or your national crown or, you know, how might have got persons from X to the or TV deals and those are nice and those are, those are timely for articles today.

But the reality of it is, you know, when people look back at the time, I always talk about the time we held the baton. I think this is one big relay race and somebody put the baton in my hand in late 2009 and I'm gonna put it in somebody else's hand in 2021 and people are going to say like what happened while they had the baton and it's only going to matter if it's lasting in a person's events those are great I'm proud of them it was fun but what I'm most proud of the fact that this game is going to be more female than ever before over the next 30 years and it doesn't matter if the next commissioner likes that or dislikes that it's coming we've

built that you know when I joined somebody asked me about the future of the game for women, and I thought, well, that's kind of a humorous question. The future of the game is playing. They're just junior golfers go look at them. And junior golfers looked exactly the same as senior golfers for a hundred years, 15% women, 85% men, mostly white male men. If you jump forward to today,

38% of the future golfers are women. There's only about a third of them are white male men. I mean, this game is going to look and feel different. It's going to look and feel more like the rest of the moral. And that's what I'm probably most excited about. I would say that when you ask that question, the two things we jumped in mind is literally changing the face of the future of this game is something this team should take a lot of pride in.

And the other is just the relationships. You know, nothing really matters at the end except the people you meet and work with along the way. And I can, I can think I can leave this job 10 to 11 years later, saying almost everybody I worked with, I'd work with again. And I think they'd work with me. And along the way in 11 years, I'm not sure I would have believed I could have ever say that when it was over.

Cause you know, when you're in the middle of the grind and people are yelling, you and you're yelling at them, you're wondering, gosh, 11 years, I'm not sure I would have believed I could ever say that when it was over. Cause you know, when you're in the middle of the grind and people are yelling at you and you're yelling at them, you're wondering, gosh, I wonder if I'm messing this thing up. But those people I yelled at and yelled back at me are some of my best friends today and will be no matter what my business card says. To that first point you made, what does the LPGA tour do specifically?

To, I would consider that outside of the fabric of the LPGA tour, you know, to that's I would consider that outside of the fabric of, you know, the LPGA tour, you know, just you guys put, you know, put on professional golf tournaments. It's very high level summary of everything you do. But how did you change that, the fabric of, you know, the percentage rate of the people playing the game at a young age? Yeah, it's funny. You say that when I joined back in 2000, beginning in 2000, one of my strategies for the team

is we called it nice three It was a three with a circle around it like you put on a bird I don't get many of them, but when I do the circles the best part of riding it on the card So we had a strategy called nice three which meant we did make sure we built all three elements of the LPJ We had tours at the time LPJ and we had just taken over the semester tour now the LEP as well But we also had teachers about 1800 female professional teachers small over the semester tour, now the LEP as well. But we also had teachers, about 1,800 female professional teachers, small over the world. We needed to grow that business. I mean, that was 1,100 back then. And then it was our foundation. And our foundation was primarily

focused on a program called LPGA, USDA Girls Call. And that focuses to get young girls playing the game early in their lives in an all-girls environment. At the time we introduced about 5,000 girls a year to the program. Now it's about 100,000 a year. So we've totally changed the future in terms of how many young girls are experienced. And that's just a U.S. by the way. And those stats about junior golfing more female are literally true all over the world. Thailand, China, Singapore, Australia, Japan. And so, you know, we believed by putting our emphasis on, by the way, every year, every player on the LPGA, votes to put about $300,000 a year of their monies into the future of the game and the LPGA girls

got. The USGA writes a big check to girls, got a gust of national writes a big check to girls, got. Obviously, PGA,.J. of America does the same. So I feel like we got the rest of the industry as focused on the women's game as we were. And like I've always said, every accomplishment I've always achieved came with somebody bigger, stronger, and wealthier than me. And this is one where the bigger, stronger,

and wealthier than me is all joined us in the initiative. And as a result, this game is going to be pretty female in the next 20 or 30 years. A quick break here to check in with our friends at golf blueprint. You can find their information at golf blueprint.com. You've heard us talk about this. A lot of people, you know, myself included, us included, you know, are not getting a lot out of your golf practice. You don't have a plan. You put too much emphasis on what, you know, just happened in a recent round. You might be misjudging the areas of your game that need work.

Our friends at Golf Blueprint are here to help you with that. I know DJ and I have been grinding hard on these. Neal's got some new blueprint cards he's been working on. I think we're actually going to get Tron working on some of these this year. I'm not going to pretend like Randy's going to be practicing. We've been down that route and we know it doesn't happen. This program is for golfers of all levels. It's not top players.

It's not high-handy capers. They've got their's not top players, it's not high handicapers. They got their whole membership options. They really run the gamut here. So go to golf blueprint.com forward slash our dash members for a lot of information about the membership, the infographics on how many, you know, what how much certain handicap range players have improved and what not.

It's a lot of information. It's algorithm based. And you're going to be really impressed with what these guys have put together to help you with your practice. If you're looking to pass the time, this winner, then go to golf blueprint dot com forward slash join as we, you want to hit the ground running come this spring. Look, if you plenty of stuff to work on while you're shut in indoors, you know, for several months here over the winter.

So again, golf blueprint.com slash join. Let's get back to Mike one. What needs to change in the next 10 years on the LPJ tour? If you were arriving at the LPJ tour right now with a fresh start, you can replace yourself as a 45 year old all over again. What would you change? What do you think, you know,

if you're thinking of a real true long-term plan under your tenure for the next 10 years, what would that look like? Well, probably three things. I mean, first is we've got to move from just being a cable TV entertainment business to a network TV business. Well, when I got here, we had one event on network TV this year, we'll probably have 10. But in a perfect world, if we had 15 to 20 of our 34 events on network TV, there'd be a different dialogue about the LPGA. Our players do worth more money, meaning Lexi Thompson's hat, or Show Young Use hat, would be worth 10 times what it's worth today, because showing up every weekend on CBS versus

showing up every weekend on golf channel is a different price point for the sponsor. So, you know, I think we're a different sport when we start moving. We've got to have the base that we have with golf channel on the cable TV networks. We have in 190 countries, but in a perfect world, we would sprinkle that in with a heavy dose of network TV. Having got there. Second thing is, I think you'll I really do believe in the next 10 years, we'll see purse equality on our majors. If you ask, you ask a thousand tennis fans, do many women play for your say-amount of money? A thousand of them would say yes. That's not really true. That's true four times a year. But no four times a year is when most fans pay attention to purse and size of the event.

If we got to the point where our majors were saying price point as the men, there'd be an equality feeling, not only among the men who play the game, but among the young women who are joining the game. And I think we can get there. The last thing is I think we would be in a perfect world. I've tried a little bit of this, but if I was stand for 10 more years, I'd be even more diligent about it. We've got to be even more bold in moving the game forward in terms of pace and fun. So, you know, to me, it's taken me 11 years to get my, to get my group to really consider seriously, rangefinders on the golf course. You know, for me, I would never play around a golf at that a rangefinder. I'm not walking to a sprinkler head or a tree. I don't know what the front

of the green is and my players would never play around a golf without a rangefinder except four days a week. Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Not in a practice round, not in a pro amp, not in a qualifier, not in a US open qualifier, not on a semester tour event. To me it's just funny. The only time we decide to slow our game down and look at a book at right notes are the four days a week we're on TV. I think we can change that in time, but I'll use Rain's Fighters as a good example of anything we can do to make the game faster and focused on the play and not the arithmetic is going to be good for the game. Well, I want to throw something at you here. I'm curious to pick your brain on this and I've mentioned a couple of times this year and where I'm coming from on this is I truly enjoy watching LPGA tour golf yet frequently.

I find it going up against men's golf, going up against other sports. I don't know why they got rid of picture and picture on televisions, but I used to really enjoy that feature. But and I know you've got stakeholders and viewers all around the world. So it's not like the US market is the only one you're trying to hit. But was there ever any thought given to alternative tournament dates? And I know it kind of is a kind of thing where you need every event and sponsor to buy into it, just the way weeks flow from week to week.

But you know, maybe it's a separate question for the COVID era, but a Friday pro am rounds one and two Saturday Sunday and you finish tournaments on Monday and Tuesdays. Maybe on the West Coast, you're kind of hitting the East Coast prime time windows. So again, it might be a two-part question, you know, with no fans and no programs there for a while, was that ever a thought for this kind of COVID era? And why can't dates like that change? I'm sure there's reasons why, but you, this is the fun of having a commissioner on. I get to play commission for a day and you tell

me why I'm wrong. The real thing is you're not wrong, but to really get the right answer, you probably need to commit to this for multiple years, not multiple events. Somebody wants to hear this, but it's just true. A really great Wednesday. I mean, a really great Wednesday. When I have five hours of live TV competing with nobody, is so much worse than a really crappy Sunday in terms of TV viewership and fan attendance. It's just a reality.

So any kind of ad agency or marketing expert that will look at me and say, hey, Mike, I tried this and you're right. I got a lot of live windows on Wednesday and I gave up a Sunday to do it and I got half the viewers. Now, I killed it for a Wednesday sport because you don't really compete with much, but a really good Wednesday, still pretty bad. So, and here's the other reality too, is when I'm playing 3 to 6 on the golf channel, while the PGA tour is 3 to 6 on CBS or NBC, my number is huge. The reason they're huge is you're watching golf. You've committed a few hours to it.

You probably don't commit a lot of your life to it, but you're about example. But some of the people that watch golf, they go, hey, I'm going to watch golf right now. And let's face it, we've all got the clicker that makes us go back and forth. I get that back and forth for three hours, and that gives me hundreds of thousands of viewers that I wouldn't normally have when I've tried these Tuesday, Monday, Wednesday things, where we really had success

in some of these kind of off-hour things to be asked with you with some of our international leadership. When we finish on a Saturday night in Hawaii, it's Sunday morning in Korea and Japan, and our numbers are through the roof in Korea and Japan, because it's breakfast and Wimbledon for them, watching us, you know, but the, so you're right. I mean, there's two things that have to happen.

One, if I move one or two tournaments, but I gotta move eight, when you start talking about moving eight tournaments, you have to bring them a better value, a better idea. They like it conceptually until they do their homework and then they come back and go, Mike, I wouldn't mind playing these dates, but the price is lower, right?

Like, you're not gonna charge me the same for less viewers, are you? So when somebody asks me to lower the price, so I'm usually done talking about that you need concept. So I will not be the next commissioner of the LPGA tour then based on this idea is what you're telling me. No, that makes sense. Although I hope the next commissioner on the LPGA is willing to try those things is what you're telling me. No, that makes sense. Although I hope the next commissioner on the LPGA

is willing to try those things because I would tell you in COVID times, we had the best Thursday Friday writings we ever had. And if I could have moved more events in COVID to the weekdays, I would have the problem we had with COVID times is by the time it hit us, we already had these golf courses and these TV contracts locked down for the 2020 time.

So moving them in the middle of the year would have been more costly. And the last thing I was doing in 2020 was adding costs. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah, I hadn't really thought of the actual benefit of flipping back between channels more so than, you know, dedicating separate time to it. And I always try to, I mean, I think we always end up thinking of things through our lens in terms of golf fans. And it's hard for us to divide our attention between two events when both

are going on at the same time, but the numbers don't lie. So yeah. I'll give you another good example. Like when we're in a playoff and the PGA course coming on in our hours overlap or vice versa, they're in a playoff and we go to split screen at golf channel. We go to split screen on network or they go back and forth. The fans go crazy. They're upset because either want to see the PGA tour, they want to see our playoff and they can't believe that we're sharing time together. Both tours are winning during that time because the demand for golf at the same location is actually higher and your viewership actually goes up. So we have to sort of say the fans gosh I know that really stinks but in my back of my mind I'm thinking I hope this playoff lasts another three holes and I hope to keep going back and forth

because my viewer my sponsor is winning and all the sponsors that are sponsoring what's on the players' bodies and bags and everything else are winning during that time. So even though the fan reaction is loud and unhappy, the reality of it is it's actually working for the tour and for the players. That is tremendous insight. So all right, I'm hoping you can shoot me down here on the next part too then because or give me kind of reasons why because we love to dream up this stuff but we don't actually have to execute it. But I've always thought the LPGA tour is ripe for, you know, doing things outside the box. European tour has done a great job with that, you know, miking up players, stuff like that. What are some of the challenges that come with thinking

outside the box like that in such a, you know, a sponsor driven sport, you know, what, what, what can LPGA tour golf, how can it differentiate itself and what in its television presentation product, you know, to really help it stand out? Yeah, I think you're right. I can't, I can't judge you down on that because I think the more, I mean, I've said to golf channel many times, let us be your incubator on the stuff you think it's, I don't know. And our players have been really good about like every player Would be mic'd up the reality of it is a lot of our players who are super personal aren't real personal when they're playing golf And I don't mean that in a bad way

I'm just saying the people that would never stop talking being player dining Don't say a word when it's you know when it's Saturday and it's go time and they got to play the game the way they the way They want to play the game one of our challenges obviously is we don't have the wherewithal to put the same number of cameras at an event that the PGA Tour normally does. So while you can watch 30 different people play golf on a Saturday the PGA Tour, you might only be able to watch 13 on the LPGA just in terms of the amount of coverage that we have. But I mean, we've tried to not only throw different approaches to televising it, but different events in

general. I mean, our team event at Dow, the international crown is something nobody ever can cut. I can't remember how many people have said to me in an airport. Why don't you just play the Women's Presidents Cup? And I said, because you'd call it the Women's Presidents Cup. And I don't really need to see the US versus rest of the world in Women's Golf. We're past that. Countries want to play for their own flag, not make up a flag, and an anthem and a color scheme. It's a different animal when your flag is on your cheek,

and the ribbon, your hair is the color of your flag. So we created international crown for that matter. Quite frankly, we created it because we thought the Olympic format, while great, the Olympics is great. We really wish there was a team format as part of the Olympics as well. I wish it was a male female Olympic format. I really am looking forward to when we get to the point where we have male female events between the LPJ and the PGA. I think the fan could benefit by seeing golf played in different ways, just like they could play it in their home for the time.

I think when people watch the Ryder Cup, you end up having all these clubs have Ryder Cup events. I think as people watch the international ground, you can do similar things. When we have mixed events, I think as people watch international ground, you can do similar things. And when we have mixed events, I think there'll be mixed events in clubs. So we can't kid ourselves that we're not a living, breathing example that makes it way back to the regular club or pro shops.

So yeah, we've got to continue to be willing to try different things. And we were early with Mike, we were early, we were the only traveling daycare I think in sports, we were early with Mike that we were, you know, we were early, we were the only traveling daycare, I think in sports, you know, where we were early with retirement programs. Other sports might take them to the next level, but generally we're first there. Well, I'm so glad you brought up mixed events. And I'm curious as to, you know, in your tenure, did this ever come up? Would you ever get close? Is there any, you know, if you

float that idea to the PGA tour, does it gets shot down immediately what what are all the reasons why that hasn't happened or can't happen or won't happen or do you think that's gonna change in the next ten years it will definitely happen it'll happen in the next couple years not in the next ten i mean we're close i work with and at least two significant ideas one one i think is really quite uh... quite large and would be really exciting in terms

of what it would mean for men's and women's and countries and you know television world. And I think we not had 2020 COVID, we'd probably be talking about it about 2021 schedule. Hey, the biggest challenges are the things you're smart enough to figure out. I mean, first is, you know, J-plays 40 weeks a year. So when I say, hey, I got a really cool idea, how do you feel about any time in August? It's like, yeah, August doesn't work. How about any time it's September, can't do September. So, you know, we find ourselves in those challenges. The second thing is, you know, I've had a ton of sponsors coming to me and say, I want to do it. A men's and women's event. And then you get into the detail, right? So if you're going to do a men's and women's

event, very few CEOs would step to the podium and say, we're going to play the women less than the men. So how much does the purse have to be to get quality guys to play? Probably eight and a half minutes. So now you got a seven, eight and a half million dollar women's purse. So we're at 17 million before you put in the three million of TV and now we're at 20,

now we're gonna go to golf course and location. All of a sudden a really cool $10 million PGA tour idea, a really cool $7 million LPG idea, is a $25 million joint event. So it's the real reality of cost is real and making sure somebody feels like they can get their money back for the bottom line. And then last, like I said, you know, is us just finding a time and a kind of event that our players, especially our top players, get excited about and drive the TV number.

But I'd say, for 2016, and really got serious about it in 2017, starting in 2017, myself, J, at the time, Tim, and John Padani was on my crew, really got together and said, let's figure this out. By late 18, early 19, we had a couple of concepts. And by the end of 19, we actually have contractual agreements between the two of us on how to get it done. And now we just got to find the partner that wants to bring it to life.

All that stuff I mentioned in the pregame is the hardest stuff to do. Once you're aware of the stage, we are finding a person to bring it to life is the easiest of the step. So knowing that we've gone nine of the ten yards, I think we're there just a matter of when we come to the podium and tell you about it. That's great. That's exciting news. I think that the Victorian Open a matter of when we come to the podium and tell you about it. That is, that's great. That's exciting news. I think that the Victorian Open was it this past year that was the, the LPJ event that

was woven in with, it was an Australian and European tour event. I forget how that was all sanctioned, but that was one of the most. That was one of the most. That was the LPJ, European, PJ, us and the LET. That's right. So four different tours meant to women. This year, we have two events. We have one in Sweden

together between the LEP and the European tour and we have one that will announce I guess about February 1st so probably should be careful but well the one we're going to announce together between the LPA and the men's European tour that'll take place this summer so another duel event between men and women and like I said I'm pretty sure by this time next year the LPG and the PGA tour will be talking about dual event between the two of us. So yeah, the men's women's thing, like I said, it's no longer a dream. It's a reality and now it's going to pick up some of its own speed. Yeah, I mean, I think it was it was on late at night and you know, just Australian, you know, golf is on late at night here in the US and the way those I was just having a absolute blast watching those two events weave in and out.

I almost kind of lost track that there was two different tournaments going on because in reality, in my opinion, it's a lot to ask for a single golf tournament to deliver drama every week because just some weeks are not dramatic. That's just how golf is. But if you double your chances

that you have some good action coming down, you coming down the stretch, you know, on the same golf course, I think that is a great way to get people to tune in. And yeah, that was a glowing brain moment. I think when I started watching that, just how that was presented on television was just fantastic. But I remember a call on my team and saying, for the practice rest, because I wasn't there,

and I said, for the practice rounds, we've been given adequate time for the players to get on the golf courses, and how are they managing kind of when the men play and when the women play? And my head rules officially said, what are you talking about? I mean, all the practice rounds are next. Like people are just, you know, there's two guys and two girls or a guy and two girls. And they said, you know, they're just totally playing together. And they said, everybody is interested in everybody else's practice routine, what they eat, the learning that was going to remind me a little bit of Rio's practice routine, what they eat, the learning that was going to remind me a little bit of Rio. You know what was really cool about

Rio is that walking and see, you know, one of my players getting therapy next to a swimmer and the two of them are talking about like, how do you taper for a big event? I mean, I remember at Diamond Resort, which is, you know, where we are this week, I remember Ray Allen talking to one of my young Korean players about how to keep your nerves under control when it's really, when it's really the final shot. And she came up to me later and said, who is that? And I said, that's Ray Allen. That guy's the guy who takes the final shot on every final game. So when he talks to you about nerve control, she turned right around, went right back and started talking again. So it's, you know, I think great athletes want to learn from

other great athletes. And that happened at the Vic Open. Yeah. I mean, it's not just lip service when we say, you know, all the LPGA programs and stuff we've played in on how much you learn about the game of golf from somebody who, you know, it's way, way, way easier and more relatable to, you know, how a, how a top LPGA player swings the club compared to like the swing speed of a normal, you know, average, you know, player. Obviously the skill is, the gap is enormous, but how they build that gap, right? I can't watch PGA tour players and say, oh, I need to just do it like that.

You can watch LPGA tour players and be like, oh, they don't hit it really far, but you know what, they're so good at their wedges, their mid-Ions or hybrids, all their shots from 170 to 190. They're just trying to score from that when they have hybrid in from those areas, and that was just eye-opening. You to, you know, hit it, sometimes I hit it pretty far. I hit it 50 yards past some LPGA players, and then they just smoke me. And that was eye opening, I think. And it's just, I'm sure that some of that exists at the pro level too of just how they spin their wedges or how they, you know, flight things and how they get after certain pins a totally different way of thinking it would be really refreshing for a lot of PGA TOUR players

and professional men to see. I think a lot of, you know, a lot of our sponsors, you know, man, I'm going to think about some of my friends that are now sponsors. They're, they're my age and their golf and addicts like me, right? So if you ask me how far do you hit your driver? I'd say 275. I've probably hit it 235, but I'm pretty convinced it's 275. But when you get out there and you're standing next to Stacey Lewis and she's 30 yards past you,

and it's all lined, because you're seeing the actual yard and I can see what it's on the driving hall. And I can't tell how many of us, we'll come up to me and go listen Mike. Stacey Lewis is 115 pounds maybe. And she's 30 yards past you. I'm like yeah, if you're standing on a car three at 175 and Bubba Watson tells you to hit a 58 degree

There's nothing you can grasp from that, but if Stacey Lewis and is hitting a 30 yards past you and she's a hundred pounds less than you You probably want to take a little bit more of attention to pace and turn and and tempo so it's you know There's there's so much to life. I can't find my t-bots as I'll stand on these programs and I'll say the Christopher What do you got? She's like six are not saying me. I'm thinking, hey, we pretty much play the same game. And as you know, I mean, when you get to the final scorecard, you don't play the same game at all. But at least you played a round of golf with them. They're on your key. They're, you know, they're relatable to what you're doing. It's amazing how much better they are than you.

But it is a game that you can relate to. I'll never do other relate to how far Roy Macquarie hits the three wood. I mean, that's history. What is a driver six iron for me? Well, I want to have a little bit of fun with this next question. I'm guessing you may have never been asked this one before, but you're incredibly accessible to the players on the LPGA tour and I may be too accessible, I would say. With that in mind, what's the most ridiculous thing that's been brought to your attention? Something that definitely shouldn't go straight to the commissioner, but people feel really comfortable with you and say, hey, Mike, you know, the soup is cold in the dining room or

something like that. Well, I've definitely had my share of food comments. There's no doubt about that. I've definitely had my share of shuttle bus comments. And like, who was the, why did you order these shuttle buses like I literally wake up in the morning thinking about the shuttle buses for of course I am. My wife finds this funny maybe a maybe commissioner should get this but my wife you know

when we have a rain delay no matter where I am in the world if I'm not at the golf course I know what you're angry because my phone is buzzing you get a hundred players stuck in a clubhouse for an hour and get talking about something. Whatever they don't like, they usually get in the lather about it. I will get 80 text messages within five minutes and I'll go, oh, shoot, we're in a rangelis. I'm not exactly sure, but I don't get this many text messages on the Saturday. But I've definitely had my text messages concerns about pen placements. You know, whose idea was the pen placement on 17?

I mean, I'm sure it depreses them to think that I don't wake up in the morning and try to forget it for 17 on and six from the left. I mean, it's just not what I do. I think the funniest thing I've ever got is after a player meeting, my wife was with me at the tournament. We were at dinner and I read my text and started laughing and she goes, what's the funny? I said, a player just told me that that tie does not go

with that shoe. And my wife goes, ohshit, she grabbed the thing and she goes, I can't believe she. And so for about a year, my wife wouldn't let me leave without putting ties on my suits before I'd back because she was convinced that I was gonna be, that was somehow letting the players down on my plate. Pretty sure it was a joke, but she's right,

that I didn't match the suit. So players are comfortable enough to take clothing shots. I mean, that's for sure. I forget if I asked you this when you were on this spring, but what did you learn about golf on TV from your time as an on-course announcer? That is work. It was really fun for about 15 minutes, and then I realized, they're going to just keep coming to you like every moment. I found myself walking on the fairways, talking to the caddies, because I know them. And we're talking about sports here. In that case, we're talking about Reynolds, because I live at Reynolds some of the year.

And all of a sudden, I didn't even realize how far out it is. And I'm like, I don't know. I've been talking to this guy about Reynolds for the last 15 years. It was fun. I mean, I really enjoyed it. I'm not sure I built for that. But somebody, Jay, Monahan and I were laughing laughing back and forth because he wrote an article about me and I'm like Geez Jay, you're not only a good commissioner, but you're a good writer and it goes we're not just a good commissioner

You're a good commentator. I'm like Jay the job entails talking constantly who is better He goes yet you're right. You had a jumpstart on me on that one So I mean if you any job you requires talking I think I think I'm scared of me on that one. So I mean, any job that requires talking, I think I'm pretty comfortable. Does golf on television look different in the future? What changes, if anything? And I don't mean to limit that just to LPGA tour. We're trying to push some change on golf on television, trying to make it more exciting.

And I'm just wondering if you see actual change coming and what that might look like. I don't know if this is a good analogy, and I don't know if everybody else, but to me, when Fox got involved with baseball, they brought a lot of technology to it. And at the time, as a baseball guy, I was watching, they were just going, hey, that's just too much. Like, I just want to watch it.

Now, I couldn't watch a game without that. You know, when shot tracer first came out, it was nice on a couple of plays, but now I don't want to watch them around a golf without shot tracer. I mean, watching him in a finished position where I don't know where the ball is, isn't exciting anymore. I think that will come at hyper speed over the next 10 years. I think we'll know where the ball lands, we'll have quicker access to exactly how far they have.

I think we'll know the history of how far they hit the seven iron from a rough like this, you know, over the last 10 years. I think betting will push that envelope too because with betting you wanna have more and more stats and data, I think because golf spends that envelope too because with betting you want to have more and more stats and data I think because golf spends so much time on TV and I mean so much time much more so than football right when you're on 16-2 hour two-hour games a year as a football team

We're on 16 hours a week every week on the LPJ So we spend so much time on TV that technology will race itself to golf and when it does I think it will, we'll look back to how we watch golf in 2020 and go, man, that just, that wasn't much information. And it certainly wasn't, it wasn't coming at me at the same speed. I think when you jump to 2030, you'll watch it like an analyst would watch golf because it'll be available to you as an analyst. There'll just be so much more technological advantages to the viewer. You know, that may be available to the player of the category today,

but aren't really available to the viewer yet. You touched on gaming there and betting. And the PGA tour seems to be really embracing the gambling aspect of their tour, and that culture is becoming more and more mainstream across, you know, pretty much all sports. So what's the LPGA's strategy when it comes to gaming? How do you see that playing out across the next decade? Yeah, I mean, we're available to bet on in 2021 and we're in late and we're in late 20.

There's two parts of gaming. Your number one is, so it is an interesting thing, 75% of sports betting comes from Asia. So a lot of times people in America look to me and go, you know, Mike, you've just got, you've got so many Asian players and so much Asian following. Is that bad for your business? And you know, I have to have an, and I'm sitting next to an airplane, I have to explain to somebody why that's a game changer process, in terms of rather than opportunities. If 75% of sports betting comes from Asia, and women's golf in Asia is not as popular as any sport in the world,

then I've got a huge opportunity in the gambling front, on three fronts, a viewer that doesn't use a pay attention to us, sponsors who don't use a pay attention to us, and opportunity for my players to be worth more money because of the first two. If more people are watching you and more and more companies are engaged, then it's actually, then it's, stands the reason that what's on your bag is going to be worth more to you. So it would be, um, it'd be irresponsible of me not to, not to figure that out for the players because I think there's opportunity for my members to have a greater audience and be worth more money,

which is what I'd like to give them. Beyond the flip side of that, we've been woefully behind in terms of our ability to spend tens of million dollars a year to upgrade our stat technology. With betting becoming a reality, I wish I could have put the cart before the horse and said, I'll just go invest all this money and I'll be ready for betting, I'm gonna have to go have some success

with betting and reinvest all that back into technology that comes with it. It's a sad way to get there, I wish I to have to go have some success with that thing and reinvest all that back into technology that comes with it. It's a sad way to get there. I wish I could have done it the other way, but I'm not sitting on the money at the LPG like some of the sports are. But I think I can use the money that will become available to betting to make the game better, more interesting to watch, and more valuable to both the people who play it and the sponsors' response to it. So yeah, it's definitely something I'm chasing.

I know I'm behind stat wise, but I'm way ahead in terms of demand wise, so it's a nice place to be. Yeah, I'd say. Well, you're an insightful guy, and I have a feeling you're gonna probably turn this into a positive, but I do feel comfortable asking you. I wonder, what were some of the low lights of your tenure? What are the things you struggled with or low points or things that you know, I'm sure

you've come out the other end of a lot of them, but I'm curious what comes to mind in that if I ask that. You know, I'm a type A guy. I remember all the bad stuff. My wife said to me one time over Christmas, why do you work so hard to have success when you celebrate it in such a short term increment? Because by the time Christmas is over, it's time for next year and you're into the grind again. If you're going to go this hard and announce a schedule, and everybody says the schedule is great,

and the minute after you announce the schedule, you're struggling on the next thing. Like, can't you just take a week? But that's Taipei, right? You focus on the negative stuff. I can remember multiple times in my life in this job thinking, you know, did I push too far, did I miss the mark we, we introduced the founders cup with no purse, I had a mock purse. And I didn't have enough money to put a purse on the event, but I knew I could get people playing and I know we could make a difference for the future of the game. That was almost the shortest tenure commissioner in the history of sports when I announced that. You know, we've,

I remember being in the Bahamas on a hurricane hit on the pro-amp night and we had 24 inches of rain that night and the ocean wall broke. All the ocean ran under the golf course. We had 12 playable holes. We turned one of the playable holes into a part three and we created the first tournament over with 13 holes a day. Literally my player started completely, you know, I really lost it. Like we were going to end with official, official money,

official stats, but I had a brand new sponsor sitting next to me in that hotel and was like, Mike, you're not telling me, right? That you're going to cash my check and we're all going home. Like that, that's not an option, right? You're not going to pay for me that. And I'd been that guy, I'd been the check writer before. So I said, no, I'm going to figure out something and you're going to get four days of TV. And we're going to crown a champion.

And I remember that night after I told him that there was a thing, I think it was Instagram. It was Brittany Linsichum standing on the bleachers we had built on 18 fishing on the 18th green. I mean, 18th green was literally 10 feet underwater. And I remember thinking, how am I going to pull off? And I just told that guy, you know, I'm going to do. I've made multiple, you know, public mistakes. I've made stupid mistakes in front of people I really respect. I've offended players. I didn't mean to offend. I've find more fathers than I have players in my 11 years,

on which is really kind of strange in a whole other conversation. And I've, you know, I haven't achieved everything I want to achieve, but it doesn't take away to your point. It doesn't go away from the positive experience. I thank goodness, I had the guts to do this because I literally turned this job down twice back in 2009. When I got the first call, I said, no, it interested in getting another name. And then later, when I got involved in the process and I got the offer, I sent a really long heart-felt email, like I've saved to the board saying, thanks, but no thanks. I just can't do this. Not now. I had young kids, I lived in California, and I just thought, I remember saying there's

never going to be a tombstone that says, here lies a great commissioner, husband and father. And I'll be the guy that says, here lies a great commissioner, the husband and father thing will get scratched out of my kids. So I just said I just can't do it. So luckily, I had to change my heart, and I'm really glad that I jumped off off the cliff because I think my kids will be more likely to take a leap when they're faced with a really difficult time and follow their passion as opposed to follow their brain. Hopefully they learned a little something this move. You touched on it there and we may have, you know, kind of talked on some of these topics

with mixed events or things like that. But what is an example of something you want to get done, but didn't. Didn't get range funders on tour, but I believe I still have a shot. I got a couple of months to figure that out. I didn't get to equal persons on at least one major. I thought I'd get to one major. I mean, I believed back in 2010, and the women's masters was a reality, and I just took the right sales guy to keep asking. So I think I asked seven years in a row, but you know, didn't get that sort of over the hump. And I didn't get to my goal of half of our events

being on network TV in the States. I really believe half our, half our events being on network TV and we're a different sport. And I'm most frustrated by the last one because that really could have done the game changer in terms of sport going to the next level. But we're trending in that direction.

I mean, I certainly think it's not only these of sport going to the next level, but we're trending in that direction. I mean, I certainly think it's not only feasible, all of those things are probably likely in the next 10 years. Can you guess what I'm going to, I bet you can. My last question on the way out is, do you, can you guess what it's going to be? I've seen you've had to answer the couple. You've had to answer a couple times. Go ahead.

Can you guess it? There's that one's that watch neck. Yeah, there's the op well there's an opening. There's an opening in in golf at the USGA. I've heard your name floated for that. What what do you have to say about that possibility? That's funny. So I told my parents literally two days before I told everybody else that I was leaving and my dad said, what are you going to go do? And I said, I don't know yet. And he goes, my gosh, Mike, you have to keep walking away from good jobs without having one because this is the third time I've left the job without any place to go. And my oldest son heard him say that on a FaceTime call and he goes, I know, Grandpa, he's two for two, but he's pushing, he's pushing the limit.

And so, air two later after we announced. My dad sends me a note saying, go online and Google your name, which is something only a father would do. And I said, why? And he said, because they've already figured out what your next job is, they're writing about it, to just go read about it. So I went on Google by myself, okay, I get it. I don't know, you've only interviewed me twice, and you and I both know that culturally, I may not really be a good fit for that job. And I'm aware of that, and I'm sure they probably are that culturally I may not really be a good fit for that job and and I'm aware of that and I'm sure they probably are too. I'm not I'm not in a hurry to find the next job and name maybe and I really think for me to be valuable to whoever whoever and where I

go next I need to kind of cleanse myself of this one so I could take a first look at the other one. What I don't want to do is leave here on Tuesday and Friday somebody announces me somewhere else. And I might miss a few good opportunities in doing that. I love this team. If I have an opportunity to stay in this team, I'm gonna take that real serious, but I'm certainly not building out of boundstakes around golf. You know, so that was a brand manager

across toothpaste. I can get just as excited talking about charter control as I can about dog legs. It's embarrassing, but that's true. So part of the excitement for me is I don't really know where the next big leap is going to be. If that turns out to be the next big leap, great, but that only because they want somebody as crazy as me and I want and I want that challenge. But we have to go through that exercise together. I

appreciate people thinking about that as a fit, but I just think that's people saying golf guy at a top position, golf company looking for a top position. I'm not really sure if anybody really sits down and pluses and minuses and says, geez, Mike wanted the head of the U.S. chair, how scary would that be? Because they probably get to that recognition pretty quickly. Yeah, I know, I've heard that conversation and then, you know, he's not a pure golf guy. He's not just a golf guy and that seems to be, you know, I don't know the rules of the game. If you asked me for a ruling, I would call in one of our rules.

But every time I hop on a golf cart, it says rules. My rules of the show is getting nervous. So I'm just being honest, but, you know, to me, when I'm playing golf, I don't know the rules. I just drop on an edit again. So it's not, I'm not a born and raised golf governance guy. That's definitely true. Well, to that, I would say a born and raised golf governance guy. That's definitely true.

Well, to that, I would say though, that might be what they need. That would be a strategic decision from their end. But the people that were dismissing that as, he's not the golf guy, and they're probably looking for, I'd say, maybe they're looking for something different. So who knows? I think you effectively answered the question.

And it wasn't, that was a more detailed answer than I thought you would give. So I really, really appreciate that. But thank you a ton for all the contributions you've made over the years to this podcast and for Women's Golf in general. And we've had a blast following it. And we always have a great time with you.

And hope this doesn't the last time, but congratulations on a great tenure. And can't wait to see what's next for you. Thanks, Laprat. I mean, it's first time we've done it on a FaceTime. At some point, explain to me the wallpaper on the ceiling plan. That is, it's kind of a soundproofing thing in here. It's actually like a blanket of some kind, so we've got kind of soundproofing stuff all

around the house to help reduce the echo, but that's what you get from a low-budget studio like we've got. Thanks for having me. I appreciate you guys and I appreciate what you guys do for the most. Better than most.