No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 404: Chip Beck

Episode Date: February 24, 2021

Chip Beck joins us to chat about his career, shooting 59, his close calls, the 1993 Masters, losing his game, getting it back at the Champions Tour level, and a whole lot in between. This man can tell some stories. Really enjoyed this one, and appreciate Chip's time.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yes! That is better than most. I'm not in. That is better than most. Better than most. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No-Lang Up Podcast, Sully here. We are going to get to our interview here shortly with Chip Beck, obviously the news that came out today about Tiger Woods being involved in a single car accident out in LA. We are not going to cover that until this weekend's

episode. There's still information coming in. Kind of need a little bit of time to digest everything and to see what happens. We're still following the news as it comes out and kind of just taking a wait and see approach here as as the rest of the golf world is. We're going to post this. We debated and you know whether or not we should post the podcast tonight. We decided to post it anyways. If you needed a break from the Tiger Woods news and wanted some help killing some time. Chip Beck is a tremendous, tremendous interview. He said a crazy wild career with some great success and some ups and downs along the way. And he takes you through all of it and tells some great stories along the way. So we were thrilled to have him on. He's been on my list for a while and I'm glad to throw it

in a little champion's tour guide mix. These guys always are the best at telling stories and providing perspective on their career. Last thing before we do get going, one of our mind you about our friends at Pinehurst, 125 years Pinehurst Resort has been the home of American Golf, and there's never honestly been a better time to be there.

You've got, of course, the legacy of Donald Ross's masterpiece, Pioneers Number 2, which just keeps getting better the more times you get to play it. You've of course got the redesigned masterpiece, Pioneers Number 4, by Gil Hans. That's just two of the nine championship courses you can experience at Pioneers. You can check out some of our videos we posted in our Tour of Sauce Season 5. We have a video from Pione ears number three as well. Just so much variety there. And then speaking of variety, when you're done, grab a few wedges and you can go, you know, enjoy a loop at the cradle, 789 yard short course. Some many people are calling it the most fun 10 acres

in all of golf. And then off the course, they've done such a tremendous job expanding their offerings there. You can indulge in a ray of craft beers, brewed on site at the Pinehurst Brewing Company, or you can relax in the fully renovated Manor Inn's hospitality suites or the stylish north south bar. Again, Pinehurst has never been better. So go to Pinehurst.com right now to plan your visit either this year or the coming years. There's no bad time to be at Pinehurst. So without any further delay, here's Chip Beck.

So where do we find you on a Thursday morning in January these days? You know, I'm actually in North Carolina and we were supposed to get snow today, but we didn't, in Fayetteville, North Carolina. I'm taking care of my mother, my wife and I. So we're, it's always good to get back to North Carolina. I'm taking care of my mother, my wife and I. So we're, it's always good to get back to North Carolina for me. That's where I grew up. I spent 30 years in Chicago,

but I'm excited to be here with my mom. During the peak of your PGA tour career, did you live in Chicago and why is it? That seems like something that you don't see a lot these days. You know what was interesting? I'm growing up in Fayetteville. I have 10 brothers and sisters in all my nieces and nephews are around here. It's an extensive family but I live down here with my wife and I in like 1988, 89 and 90 right in there and you know it's an army town and I couldn't get home because if there was any delay in the in the planes or something happened

with weather, they would always delay the soldiers getting in because Fable was a destination for all the soldiers, so they're coming in from Washington, New York. They're coming in from all over the Eastern Seaboard, so I could never get home and it just got frustrating. I could never get home to like Monday at 2 o'clock and then by the, you know, I had to get back to the golf course on Tuesday. So when I'll move to Chicago I

Could get home no matter what I'd get home after the round on Sunday. I'd get home anytime Sunday night But I always got home and then I could leave You know even like Wednesday morning if I had a late starting time play my my practice round or my pro-M and then go. It worked out really great. That was the only reason, because I just, I really, what makes FAMO the great place are the people. I'm always interested when people live in the high-tax states, you know, when you're a professional golfer and you can basically live anywhere

you want it, you choose to live. I'm always interested as to the reasons why people, you know, live in California or live in, you know, New York or Chicago or something like that. That just jumped out of me. Where did you, where did you play in practice in Chicago? And did you go elsewhere during the winter to, you know, to kind of stay sharp on your game? You know, it was really interesting.

I had a really good year in like 88, 89 and I had a play in the Pro-Wam with a guy named Bert Gets. Bert Gets, he did one of the nicest things that's ever happened to me. He said, hey, Chip, I just opened up a golf course. I've had a farm in my family for four generations and I really would love you to be a member and we ended up actually winning that program in Phoenix because that's where he has real estate and he's in the banking business and I said, Mr. Gets, I couldn't afford your club. I don't know why I could even afford to be a member of your club.

He said, no, no, I don't want you to pay any dues. I just want you to come be a part of it and just pay for what you use. And that's what happened. It's been the nicest experience. It's a great club. What is it? What club is it? The Merit Club.

They've actually had lots of tournaments there. They've had the Soul Hymn Cup there. Soul Lexi Thompson play there and all the great young players. You know, Bets King won there. I think it was a US Open in 2000 there. They had a great run up there. A nice club, nice people. And then, so I was an honorary member at Butler National and Rich Harvest Farms, which are two really nice golf courts. So I had the North Middle and then the Southern side of

Chicago. So I can play about anywhere. But people are really friendly there and it kind of the North, Middle, and then the Southern side of Chicago. So I can play about anywhere. But people are really friendly there, and it's a great golfing community. I lived there for six years, and I could never improve my game, because by the time I got, you know, in the flow of things, it was time for Fall and Winter again. So yeah, did you go elsewhere during the winter to stay sharp? Well, you did ask that. I actually started seeing Jim Sutty down in Florida

about 20 years ago. And I just fell in love with Naples, Florida. The weather's just so good that we were actually becoming Florida residents now. It's a great place. And Jim Sutty, I think he's probably the best teacher I've ever known. He's the first guy to actually really teach me and not really learn with me. That's a big difference. He said, hey, Chip,

you can play from now, first lesson, he said, Chip, you can play from now until eternity with your fast hips and your long arm swing. You may never square the club. And I remember Turner and I said, Doc, what did you just say? He said, you can play from now until eternity with your fast hips. And you're long arm swing, you will never square the face. I knew right then and there. I was going to get better. He taught me how to synchronize my swing and how to coordinate the motion. And from then on I started getting better. And he actually really brought me back to where I could play on the Champions Tour. And I really, I thought I'd never played again.

I got broken down so much. My body was hurt, my old swing, I played with a closed face and I was arching my back to get the ball in the air. Man, I had all kinds of physical problems. And it was just too grueling. And I remember asking me, Chip, we can go back to how you once played, he said, I know exactly how you swung and what you did. He said, but, or we can start what I think is more of a neutral swing. And I said, dog, I can't keep playing the way I've been going. So he developed a neutral face and a neutral impact

and where I could actually hit the ball straight and didn't have to just kind of block cut it out there or release cut it, whatever it was always a cut shot and a low cut shot because the face was closed. And so anyways, I learned a lot from him and I've really enjoyed that process. I think it's made me a better teacher today, which is because I've seen the upside

and I've seen the underbelly of it too, and I took off Kim D. You went kind of straight into the downside of your career, but I was ready to talk about, you mentioned 88 and 89 there. You won twice in 88, you're kind of underselling it if I may say, top 10, 11 out of 25 events in 88 and

10 out of 23 events in 89. So you had it really, really humming there for a little while. I just don't want you to breeze over that part. And I want to kind of talk about, you know, your path to the PGA tour and what qualification was like back then. I know you were a standout at UGA as well. But, you know, what was the transition like into professional golf and and then reaching pretty close to the pinnacle of it? Yeah, well, it's changed so dramatically.

I think about it quite often because, like right now, it's so much easier for the young players to come right out of college to keep their confidence and play really great, because that's really at the height of your confidence, your beating everybody in college. You know, you're having a lot of height of your confidence. You're beating everybody in college. You're having a lot of fun. Your confidence is high.

In my day, literally, you had to qualify to qualify. If you didn't make the top 25 in the national qualifying, it was five or six days of golf. You had to go to Europe or Asia to play golf. That was pretty tough. I had some friends of mine and have to go all over the world to make a living. I was so happy to be able to stay in America because I remember like Tim Simpson being in Bangladesh,

you know, getting all his money, and they'd pay you in cash, and he's worried about getting robbed, getting out of the airport. So it's like a whole different ballgame, and then you know, getting out of the airport. So it's like a whole different ball game and then you know getting sick on the food and they played some tough places. And I was always so happy that I was able

to actually play in America. And but what happened with us, like if you look at Curtis Strange, it took you four years to qualify and to get on tour. So you're really, your confidence gets knocked way down. And that happened to me as well because my first year I qualified. I've been a second in the qualifying school. And John Fought beat me.

John Fought came out and won his first two tournaments on tour. He was a really good player. And then he went into golf course architecture. He was a real determined type player and much as a very, I think, it was like a perfectionist, you know, and he couldn't take the ups and downs and all the suffering that goes into playing professional golf and all the travel. So he chose to build golf courses and he's done a really good job with that. But the thing is, my first year, I got an exemption in the Greensboro because I grew up an hour

from the tournament course, and I missed a cut there. But I didn't qualify until July of that year for the Western Open in Chicago. And what was interesting about that is, you know, I went to Dallas. It was the wind was blowing 50 miles an hour, we qualified. I went to Phoenix, we had four golf courses with 150 players, one person per field. I mean, you had to play so great.

And so the guys that had been out there were such an advantage. They weren't afraid of any new kid coming out because they just weren't playing at the same level. So now the kids, if they don't qualify, they can actually play the Corn Fairy Tour. That's a nice convenience if you can finish top 25 on the corn fairy tour. It's pretty much like another golf, another year of college, you know, playing. You probably know a lot of your friends out there playing it. It's you play it in America, mostly and heck, it's the worst scenario for them is they have to go to Canada to play or they have

to go to South America. They have so many other organized tours that it's so much easier. So anyways, I actually qualified. I remember you had to show that you had 50,000 in the bank that you could go all year. So I had to have a sponsor. Oh yeah, you had to have proof that you could afford to stay out there for the year. And so like I qualified, I mean I made my first cut, made about, I finished top 15 and finished, I made, I think I finished 14th something like that and I made just under $1,500.

And I actually played pretty good from there out and I failed keeping my card by like less than $100. And I didn't even make $7,000. So we didn't really play for the money. It was, that was 1979. But that's a whole different ball game than what the kids do today. We didn't have anything.

We were so happy to get golf balls for free. And golf clubs from Tideless, Tideless was the big, they really helped the young kids out at that time. Very, very fortunate to have them where you didn't have to buy your golf balls. I remember when I shot 59, this guy came up and he said, hey Chip, you remember,

when you shot 59 in Las Vegas and you were standing in line to buy some golf balls, some range balls. And I spoke up and I said, hey, this guy just shot 59. You go charge you for those golf balls. He let me buy them. I said, I remember you, because I said, it is kind of funny, though. But that, you know, that was a 91.

So think about it, you know, it's, uh, it's changed quite a bit. The Tiger Woods impact was kind of like the Arnold Palmer impact in the 60s, if not greater than that. So now guys can make enough money in five years that they can't spend it all. Are you buying range balls? This is an ad a PGA tour event, right? This is just, you just wanted to practice somewhere and you're getting ready to buy range

balls? No, I'm at a PGA tour event. They charge us Vegas. Yeah, that was the way it was. It's kind of interesting, isn't it? Well, I've never even heard of that. All right, so I was getting ready to ask you unrelated, just kind of comparing the perks of today's world to what, you know, what it was like then. I had no idea that paying for range balls was on that list.

Oh, gosh, yes. We were lucky to have a good range. But even as it was, we had the best balls and we had the best equipment in the world at that time. So we were happy. If you had the best equipment, you were truly happy. I remember Arnold Palmer. I came in to see Dr. Braley. This is like about 1985 or so. And I said, Dr. Brailey, and he's the guy that started Frequency Match Shaffes. He was actually a veterinarian, very smart

guy. And in his spare time, he developed the algorithms to how to make the shafts flex at the same point for different lengths of shafts and how to make them release at the same point for different lengths of shafts and how to make them release at the same point. So they felt the same and the timing was the same throughout your swing. And I said, Dr. Braley, man, I'm having trouble keeping this ball down with his two iron. He said, let me see it. An honor palm are sitting there. And so Dr. Braley puts it in that frequency machine. You know, where they clamp the grip down. First time I'd seen it and the shaft started going up and down and vibrating. They said, well, my gosh, Chip, you've got a lady's regular shaft in here. And Palmer looked at him and said, I wonder how many

kids come through here with poor equipment that can't make it. And this was the best week, this was the best in the world. So Dr. Braille really changed the world, in my opinion. That guy was from then on, I started playing well. And I had my, when I started playing the frequency match, chefs, they were at 8.0, which is like true temper, X-100s, the most consistent shaft, but man, they were like telephone poles, but I could control it. I was young and strong, and I didn't get any funny looking shots coming off the shaft. You know, like he said, the shaft is the engine of the swing.

You gotta have a good shaft, and he's right. But I finished like 29th and 30th on the money list at that time. And a lot of that was due to the better equipment. Isn't that incredible? I mean, that's actually incredible. Yeah, I mean, just like thinking about all the tweaking and the equipment trucks and everything that goes on these days and how, you know, it would be extremely rare for

somebody to step out on the course with an error as big as having a lady's regular flex shaft in your two iron. But yeah, I mean, do you see just kind of, you know, your career spans generations here that we're talking about and you mentioned the tiger effect and everything? Do you see, just in talking about how little money you guys were playing for in the 80s, was golf? I don't want to say less competitive back then, but just the volume of people that are able to make it in the game, the economics just don't work, right?

I've been stunned the long-gredded of this job, how many professional golfers I meet, either many tours or just the amount of people that are trying to make it out there. Has that evolved greatly in your eyes compared to when you were starting out? Well, I think the first big change was that it became a popular sport, you know, in the 80s, so just the 80s and 90s, where we started getting, you know, the quarterbacks of the football team playing. So you started getting a little bit higher quality player athletically, more of them. I mean, you'll never find a more gifted player

than Jack Nicklaus coming out of Columbus, Ohio, playing maybe four months out of the year, to go to the top of the ranks and to be as great as he was for as little as he played. It's incredible how talented he was. So, you'll see that all with guys coming out of the Midwest and those cold climates, like even a J-Hos. J-Hos is from Bellville, Illinois.

I mean, that guy's gifted, you know, and he's a person that he's always had a consistent game and just athletically gifted. So it doesn't matter Gary Hallberg's another one from Chicago, incredible amount of talent. You can go down the list, but they're truly gifted and they're a little bit, it's like going to Harvard, so to speak, and finding the people there that the top of their class,

well, the DNA is in there, somewhere in their family, they've got a genetic code for intelligence, just like in offers. You look at Nicholas or you look at any of these players. Well, even in my family, I had a first cousin that was a professional wrestler and I had an uncle that played for the Cubs, two years for the Cubs, you know. So my dad's brother.

So they're always athletes in that genetic code. But the thing was, I was playing with Trevino and Chichi Rodriguez and George Archer and Dave Stockton. I was playing with these guys. And you learn so much when you're talking to them and they'll show you shots. I remember Trevino saying, they just came out with that heavenly wood and were playing Westchester Country Club and the rough around the greens, they were small greens and the rough was real thick and deep. And he said, look at this man, if I had this, I'd have made millions of dollars because

you could take that little heaven wood and hit a little putt out of the rough and it would roll right up and go in the cup. It was like, you had controlled the speed. He said, I've never seen anything like it. They were always experimenting with different types of shots and different things, and so they saw real vast improvements. And but I remember Trimino telling me, he said, Chip, you're the dumbest guy I've ever seen.

He said, you teed him all up in the middle of the tee, trying to hit the middle of the fairway. He said, Uncle Buck here's gonna beat you every time. He said, how do you think I win these tournaments? He said, I go to the right side of the tee. I aim down that 25-yard line about a foot inside that left side of the fairway and I cut it across that fairway.

I've got 25 to 30 yards to hit it too. And you've got maybe 15 on each side. He said, I'm gonna across that fairway. I've got 25 to 30 yards you did too. And you got maybe 15 on each side. He said, I'm gonna beat you every time. I said, yeah, you're right, man. You know, they teach you. Yeah. And I really like that about it. I got to know them.

And I just love their company because they were always having a good time playing golf, you know? That's interesting. Yeah, I was gonna ask you what kind of guys you looked up to or or guys that took you under their under their wing when you when you were coming out. I I think I I didn't know the Trevino story but I know one name of guy that kind of took you under his wing. I was wondering if you could tell tell that story that's Raymond Floyd who I'm after. Yeah, Ray Floyd when I was 10 years old. Think about this. A Jack Nichols was 27 years old.

He hadn't had five years in the PJ of America. So he wasn't qualified to play in the rider cup and he had won seven majors in like seven tournaments. I mean, this is a phenom, right? That's unbelievable. Like, I didn't know that was a thing back then. So during that week, I didn't know that was a thing back then.

So during that week, I didn't know it was in September. Early September, Raymond brings Jack Nickless to Fayette with North Carolina to have the grand opening of his father's course there, Cypress Lakes. He built the course. His father had built, he'll be, he'll be Floyd built the course and had a home there,

Raymond had a home there. So they were involved there, part owners and what had you. So I mean, I remember following those guys and it's really interesting because I remember, Raymond gave me 30 brand new Wilson staff golf balls. I got their autographs at state on my Bulls in Borden

until I went to college. And I just always dreamed about. I knew at that time I said to myself, I'm walking into the locker room, following them after the end of the day. I remember shots, Nicholas hit that day. It's clear as seeing them right now, as we can walk right down the fairway.

But I remember thinking to myself, yeah, this is what I want to do, man, I want to be like these guys. I never looked back. That's what I had in my mind. I had it locked in. And I remember going back there 40 years later, I guess Raymond Floyd's dad was having trouble. Mom said, you know, he's not doing well, chip, you need to come say, you last, you last respects to him and pay your last respects. And so I went, I saw LB. One of the things he said to me, he's coming out of his house in Wiltshire and he looked up. He said, hey Chip, the greatest day of my life was when you and Raymond finished one, two in the US open, because LB was, he was coaching me at the time when I almost won that open at Shenakar Kills in 86 and I've always was so appreciative

of what LB did for me because I'd lost my sponsorship and fail. I didn't have any money and LB said, hey Chip, I'll let you play at my golf course. Come on out, I think I can help you. And he really built my confidence. And he said, hey Chip, Raymond can't do this. You do this so well. He'd do it better than Raymond. You need, you need to, he said, and he was a sergeant in the army. And my dad was a real mile pace, and we're all kind like Dennis, you know, from North Carolina. I think he didn't use two cuss words in his whole

life, you know. And LB was cussing me out. I'd play a tournament. I'd come back. He said, I mean, he'd just go into a chip. I can take a horse to water. But man, I can't make him drink. But would you please drink the water? And you know, he's cussing at me. He has a sergeant.

I said, yes, sir, yes, sir. That was really funny, you know? But he really loved me. And he really did a, it was a wonderful time for me to be involved with Raymond at that time. And one of the nice things about it was Raymond started inviting me to his home, down when we played at the Drow tournament, he lived in Miami. And man, I was the only guy there.

My brother and I, my brother was caddy for me. I mean, I met everybody in golf there. It was, you know, all the CBS guys, Trichinny and everybody that was anybody in golf was at Ray's house that night. And he was always so nice to me. I'll never forget it. The first time I played in a US Open,

Sunday I'm playing with Raymond Floyd and I am literally shaking in my boots because Raymond's tough, you know, and I love that toughness about him. You know, I'm hooking the ball out of play. I hit it up next to a tree after about three holes. I'm boogin' every hole and Ray come up. He came up to me and say, Chip, come here son. He put his arm around me and said, Chip, I want you to settle down. He said, just sit close to me and stay close to me. I'm going to carry this thing through and I'm going to win this tournament today. He said, don't worry about a thing. Just settle down. I eat it when we get in it way. But you know what? I love it. I really enjoyed that. That was like in the early 80s. So he was always kind

to me. And the thing that was really cool is when my first rider cup at the Bellfree Raymond was the captain. And I'll never forget, he said, hey, Zinger and Beck, you guys have qualified for this. And you're part of this team, he said, we're counting on you, play hard, we're putting you in.

Man, I always appreciated that, because he knew that you were only as strong as your weakest link. He's definitely a great coach and I'll never forget when Curtis hit that last green with a two iron and You know, it it secured that we would get a tie for the rider cup Raymond job sit right next to him and he jumped up. I've never seen his eyes so engaged and bulging out. He was so happy to get that ball on the green. And you know, that was a hard hole for a guy like Curtis Knuck, because we'd hit driver straight. We couldn't get to the bunker on the corner. It was a dog leg right the left. And I hit

two iron in that day, but you, but Fred Couples was so long, he had nine iron in there. And we should have won that Ryder Cup hands down, but Raymond, at the end of the night, he said, you know, I made a huge mistake. He said, guys, I didn't realize that win was swirling back into our faces. And it was knocking the big hitters balls out of the air,

whether it's paint Stewart was in that creek, all the long hitters, Freddie just crushed it down there. But can you imagine hitting the ball that much farther, you know, hitting nine earn, I'm hitting two earn, Curtis hitting two earn in there, it's a different ball game, he played. Well, that's, I wanted to ask you, I don't know exactly what my question is related to this,

but you know, you've played, you know, with obviously equipment in the 70s, 80s, 90s, and you've played, you know, on the champions tour, especially with, you know, modern equipment. And you know, a lot's been made of drivers and how far they go and all that stuff, but I'm kind of curious, just like comparing the skills you needed with irons, the precision you needed and the way the ball flew through the air. I just wondered if you could kind of compare and contrast, you know, what golf was like in the 80s and 90s compared to like what it was like competitively on your champions tour days and what what what what kind of precision you felt like you needed to have then versus like the more forgiving clubs today at your level.

What what is that what how would you describe that? Well, the one thing that was really a big improvement was I never played more than three holes with a golf ball. And I never pulled a new ball out on a par three, especially it was over water, because you didn't know how good the ball was. But now the quality control is so good. There's a margin of like 3% extra on the initial velocity

of these golf balls. Like I remember playing with this Japanese guy, I think his king Kong was his name, they called him Kong. He drove it. 75 to 100 yards by me every day at August of this particular day I played with him. I remember Tom Meeks was the director of the USGA, all the rules, and I waited for the scoring tent to clear, and I said, hey, Tom, I can't tell you this in any nice way. I said, but the guy I played with the day, his balls were souped up. I said, he had a wedge in the 15 from 150 yards. I've never seen anybody do that.

I said, he outrode me 75 to 80 yards every time today. And I said, I've played with Fred Couples when he hit a 600 yard par 5 with a 3-iron, driver 3-iron. I said, I've been around guys that hit it really long. I said, but these balls, just, there's, and where it really stuck out was on the sixth hole, the par three. He took this smooth little six iron. I could see the speed in his swing and he hit that ball on the back of the green. And I said, well, I'll just hit a nice five iron in there. Well, I did, and it came up short of the green 10 yards. I thought, man, this guy's balls are souped up. And he said, Chip, I got gotta tell you, just last year,

Jack Nicholas said this about Raymond Floyd, because Raymond was playing pre-septice golf balls. And he said, I went and personally got a dozen balls out of Raymond's bag, and I had a thousand cent from the factory. And I was there when we tested him, and he said, you know, there's a 3% margin of error on the high side, that extra velocity said,

you can go to that 3%, but if one ball goes over out of the thousand and twelve, they're all illegal. They're not conforming. He said, but the most amazing thing is every one of those golf balls went to that extra 3% and stopped, not one went over. He said the quality control was unmatched in the world. He's never seen anything like it. So that was a big change. But I will tell you that the thing that happened in golf, and I think the USGA is aware of it, because I talked to one of

my friends who was president of the USGA, and he said, Chip, they got out ahead of us, the manufacturers. One of the first rules in golf, one of the first 15 rules was no spring-like effect in the face. Well, with all this metal, believe it or not, in 2010, the USJ was testing a driver's with, and balls of things like that with a wooden club.

They have a, they call it a COR, Coefficient of Restitution, and how quickly it, it's like a trampoline effect. That changed everything. The ball started going really too far. And then also now they have it in the irons. If you go back and play like the best club in the 80s, like the the the ping I too when that iron came out, for instance, the best one iron that was invented.

It had perimeter waiting, heel toe waiting was the best club in like 1980. And if I played it in the British open and it was 19 degrees, I couldn't get it off the ground. It had to be 20 degrees for me to actually use it. But now your three iron's 19 degrees and it's actually a little bit longer. So the guys are the three iron a day or like our one earns were. But the spring in the face, like I can just you know, in the last year, I was taking a seven iron, I swung it at 84 miles an hour. And I would hit

my, it was a, you know, just the apex pros, Callaway, with before this spring came out, I'd hit it 159. It had the proper amount of spend and what had. But then I would take the their new club, any of their new clubs, the fusion or whatever. And I'm using it now. Swung that seven iron at 84 miles an hour. It went 176 yards. And not only that, it went higher with more spin. It was actually usable. Whereas before this, what would happen was they would just take a six

iron and really it was a five iron. They just changed the number on it. But the problem was, you know, guys would hit a long seven iron, but the ball would be like a five iron and it wouldn't stop when you hit the green. So playing golf is controlling the hike and the spin on the ball and distance. That's what it's all about at the high levels. So, you know, when PXG, when they came out with a seven-hour, and my friends were hitting 210 yards, I mean, it's just going too far. Amateurs like it, but the pros can't play with it because it's just, you know, they got to dial it back. It's all about scoring and controlling the distance. So yeah, the game has changed dramatically. I think it's probably helped the amateur, but the thing that's really interesting, and Mike Reed and I were talking about this because Mike's pretty insightful.

And this was 20 years ago and he said, Chip, the thing that's happening that I find is that I'm kind of maintaining my distance. Like you and I, we're pretty much the same now. But when you start getting the club face and the club speed going up five to 10 miles per hour, it's not a one-to-one relationship. It's an exponential growth of that ball and how that ball responds. How the aerodynamics of the ball keep it in the air. They've got the spin ratios just right. And the landing and the takeoff, 15 degrees, whatever it is, they've organized all that so well.

Because of the spring in the shaft, the lightweight shafts, you know, they started making 50 grams shafts and you take that weight, put it in the head so you had more mass times velocity. And then you add on that with that, especially the spring and the face. They were gaining, you know, 50, 70 to 100 yards. It really is such an advantage now. And like you were saying earlier, that the precision required with the old clubs is just a whole different game. Random question here.

Let's say, if I take you back to a random year in the 80s and let's say you alone have track man technology. It's a secret invention. You are the only player that has it. You don't tell anyone about it, which you seem like a very personable guy that likes to chat a little bit. So I'm going to ask you to be quiet on this, right?

This is your secret. How would that have effect, what kind of advantage would that have given you over other players if, if no one else had that technology? It's really interesting because you definitely could match up your clubs better, which is a big advantage. Like I was saying, you could get your club speed, your ball speed matched up really well. You could test out your drivers better because you could see which faces had more energy in them. Like I remember when I played the Masters, I was playing a laminated driver that was graphite. I hadn't played

much graphite. This was in like 93 and I started hitting a big hook. But the driver was set up. It was weighted for a hook. So I could hook at 25 to 30 yards and normally I hit a low fade, 10 yard fade. And so I had my three wood set up for fade. That was a huge advantage to me at that time just to have a company that could actually do that. That was just starting. And that I had seen, they were the, Ping was probably the best company in the business at that time. I mean, they were pretty much, they had 30% of the market

and were growing. And that's when all that lawsuit and all that happened. Because the other companies put together, didn't even have 2% of the market. And Ping was the first real scientific company to actually come along to my knowledge. We've seen it go through the years now. But to the point where, you know,

Adams Golf invented that slot in the back of the face, you know, and tailor-made and fringe upon that patent and they just bought the company instead of going through lawsuits, they just bought Adam's golf. That was a smart thing because now the three would go farther than the drivers because the three woulds are unregulated and the pros are using five woods now if they're tailor-made, because they go so far.

Makes a lot of sense. I want to get, I can already tell you I'm going to keep you here longer than I was planning to because you're a fantastic storyteller. There's a lot to cover from your career as well, but I imagine you don't ever get sick of talking about 59. But I was more, I guess, maybe stunned to to read about it a little bit last night seeing, I wonder if you could tell us what you shot the day before and how you end up shooting 13 shots better the next day. That's an interesting question because you know that particular week,

we had five new golf courses. I hadn't seen any of the courses. So I couldn't get a practice round on the course where I shot 59. And so my caddy Dave Wusley just said, a chit, hit it about 240 right there, Just on the left side of that tree. I said, Okay, that's good. I'll put it right there. You know, he

just guiding me around and it's like they say you don't really want to think about it until you actually have a chance to do it. And so I didn't really know what was coming at me. I knew I was playing well. I knew

there was a million dollars up, but yet I didn't. I couldn't really be concerned about it because I didn't know if the hardest hole coming or. I didn't know what was going well, I knew there was a million dollars up, but yet I couldn't really be concerned about it because I didn't know if the hardest hole would come in or what was going to happen, you know, if it was a tougher finish than a start, so I couldn't really make any judgments, I couldn't really think about it.

So I tried to just play the best I could and try to keep burning every hole because I knew it was, of course, we knew the night before John Cook and Dick Mass and I were with our caddies on the putting green the night force. The caddies were saying that, hey, this is the course you can shoot 59 on. This is it because you can reach all the par-fives and there's some wedge par-force. And so sure enough, we had it in our mind that it was possibility. But even at that, I never even thought about it until, you know, I'm walking off the ninth green and the marshals said, hey, Chip, that was the best nine by two shots, keep it up.

And you'll shoot for 59. I said, oh, I was like, the kiss of death. So I remember walking, I said, oh, God, thank you so much. And I walked for the next 10. I actually had a driver wedge and made birdie on the tent pole, which I was really happy about. It was very interesting. The weather was good in Las Vegas, but I think not knowing the golf courses, it's always

challenging. So you're just trying to get a feel for the green and how hard you have to, how much, how far the ball will roll once it hits the green? Are they soft or hard? You know, and the weather could get windy one day and calm the next. I went out early the next morning at seven o'clock. The greens were immaculate.

And at that time, we played war metal spikes. And when you, when walk on a green like in the air climate, like Vegas, you know, you'd kick up grass with little dirt clouds on it and they would get hard and they wouldn't release from the grass. So it was like having little landmines all over the place so it knocked your ball around. And I knew it was getting harder to make those putts because of that. And what's interesting on the last hole, I remember I had about a three footer, I was hoping to actually hold it from the fairway because I didn't know how many more putts I could make

that day. I got up there and there were two spike marks right in my line. And I remembered when I was playing my worst golf, I'm thinking, man, how do I shoot 59? I mean, I can't feel I can't break 80 right now. But I remembered two things. The 17th hole was a part three. And I stood there to the wind. I was always hitting a little cut left to right. The wind came up really strong right to left. And I said, Hey, Dave, I think I backed off my shot. I said, I think I need to run two bouts at on the right fringe to keep it on the proper side of the hole. He said, yeah, for sure, the wind, it picked up 20, 25 miles an hour. So that's what I did. And the ball hit, boom, boom, it rolled up underneath the hole. And what's

interesting, I had about a 10 footer underneath the hole. And if I'd gone to the left, I'd been coming over this ridge, the ball would have broke probably two or three feet. I'd have never made birdie. But as it was, my putt broke about six inches to 12 inches and I rolled it right in. And then the last hole I hit a cut off the tee. It was a dog leg right the left. I put it just, you know, in the edge of the fairway past the bunker. And I had a lie that it was like 153 yards, which is usually my seven iron, but the ball was sitting down and I thought, gosh if I hit this eight iron, the flags took so much, I could spin it and maybe get it in the hole. I said, I need to get this ball in the whole day. And so sure enough, I remember seeing that shot come out and I remember seeing it out like windows, like Hogan said, you see it and hitting through the

window, your first side of the ball is like, I could see the spin on the ball. I could feel it. Man, I said, go in as perfect. And when I got up there, I thought it was going to be a tap in, but it was on the upside of the hole. And then those two spike marks. And I remember I was playing with like four amateurs and they said, Chip, what do you want us to do? I said, just relax. Play your game. And, and but anyways they picked up and So I went to the side of the green. I was my nerd my knees were shaking because I'd never had to put for a million dollars

and I said just settle down Give it the best chance you can and get that ball rolling so it can roll hit that first spike mark Kick to the second spike mark, which will kick it into the right side of the hole. And that's what happened. So I think it gave me an opportunity to really stay steady, steady, and see the ball rolling and boom, boom, right in the cup. And that's what I saw.

I was relieved when it went in. And I remember thinking a couple of things that, like, I'd started a foundation that year that year and I knew that was gonna be the best way to fund it So we we started they had actually two scholarships set up at the PGA tour the PGA of America and we put like 48 kids through college to the heaven scholar foundation So that's been one of the great things that happened to them because of that put going in well Can you be back up? Sorry just just backing up the, what is the bonus? I was reading about this last night. I never knew that you got a million dollars for break. What was that ruler?

What was that? How did that happen? You know, it's interesting. I'm sitting, my wife and I are sitting next to Eric Hilton. The year in banquet, I'm sitting next to Eric Hilton. He says, hey, Chip, did you hear? We're gonna give a million dollars away, Hilton Corporation, giving a million dollars away.

The first guy she 59 is coming here. And my wife kind of says, she kind of tapped me on the table and said, Chip, you're gonna get that. And Eric heard it. And I said, Eric, all I know is that when you give a million dollars away, guys will get it out here. I see because I saw Don Pooley make a hole in one at the 17th hole at Bay Hill

when he probably had a diameter of about two feet max to get a one iron in to to make a hole in one for a million dollars and he did it. I said that's incredible. You know, they thought that was an impossible hole to make a hole in one on, and he did it. I said, that's incredible. You know, they thought that was an impossible hole to make a hole in one on, but he did it. And I said, that's the way golfers are. These pros, they know how to get that money, man,

when you lay it out. And so I was really fortunate that it happened to me. I never knew that part of the story. That's wild. I wanna go, you know, all right. So if I mentioned, you know, going going you're runner up at the 1993 masters when I say that does it bring back good memories or bad memories? You know it really actually brings back really good memories and I remember going to bed that night

thinking wow man I know I can win this tournament. I knew for the I played it 13 times or more and I never had a chance to win because I had a low cut. Look at Dervino, look at Hal Irwin, I don't think they ever finished. I think Hill might have had one top 10. He finished. Yeah, one time and that's one of the great players of all time but the course didn't fit him and he wasn't going to change his game to play there. But I'm growing up, you know, I went to University of Georgia, I went and saw the Masters in 75 and I saw Nicholas make that put at 16. And I remember there was a guy put in front of him that had the same put on the same line.

And I'm leaning over the ropes and I said, by George Nicholas is going to make this put, there's no way around it. After seeing that guy roll that ball up there. And sure enough, he ran that thing in there and he ran across that green and I was so excited. Well, George, I always had a chance to go play, but I said, no, I'm going home. I'll play Augusta when I get there is what I thought to myself. I didn't need to see it beforehand. I had an opportunity and I, Hank Haney, I said, Hank, I really want to win this tournament. How do you win Augusta? He said, Chip, everybody that plays great at Augusta plays an open face draw.

You need to have the face open. And when you roll the face in the backswing and you roll it through, you'll get a lot of curvature on the ball. And the ball will always start to the right. So I learned to hit an open face draw, worked on it six months. And I literally had that face rolling open and rolling shut.

I was hicking it 25 to 30 yards off the tee, entirely different game. But it worked so well there. I thought, this is great. And so anyways, I knew that I could do it. And so I had, it was the first time I'd gone around A-Mind Corner with a chance to actually win. And I remember Bernard Langer on the 11th pole hit a five iron across.

It was hooking across the right side of the green. It literally stopped like six inches from going into that little lake there on the left of the green. And I said, man, this is where it's all at right here. And on 12 he got it up and down and I missed it., this is where it's all at right here. And on 12, he got it up and down and I missed it. I hit the ball close. I thought the puck was gonna stay straight.

It went to the right towards the bunker. It was on the very right side of the green. The next hole I hit, full would hit it right over the flag. Langer did the same thing right over the flag. And my ball's about a foot longer than his on the same line. And my ball goes right down to the cup, breaks two inches left, and you know, Langer saw that and made it. And that was a tournament.

So it could have gone my way at that point. So I felt really good about it. When I got up, they were saying they slayed me, Venturi slayed me, you know, about being a coward. That hurts when Venturi calls you a coward, thinking, wow, what is he ever done? You know what I mean? I didn't know him that well. Fortunately, I got to know him a little bit better as time went on.

You know, one of my good friends is one of his best friends. So I got over it. But man, that hurts. You know, when he's calling you a coward on national TV. Set the scene for us. What was the scenario that led to him saying that? Did he use the word coward? I looked at it and watched it last night.

I was kind of flipping through it. And he had a lot to say about it. But I don't remember if he actually said the word coward. Yeah, I think he did. To my knowledge, you did. That's what stuck out to me. I thought, wow, that's really amazing. I put a new three wood in that week because you needed a strong three wood.

I was 10 yards behind my go point. And it was really funny because I was playing the scoff course in Boston, Old Sandwich. And Tim Neer was as an Augusta member. And I said Tim, on that particular year, there was a mound in the fairway. They put these little mounds in the right side of the fairway and I was right behind one. He said, Oh, yeah, the gum drops. I said, you called him that. I said, you're kidding me.

He said, yeah, they were in there. And I said, yeah, they were only in there for that one year. He said, yeah, they were the gum drops. We called them. I said, well, that caused me the tournament because I got behind one, the win was kicking up about 25 miles an hour. I was 10 yards behind my go point. And going at the middle of the greener, at the flag, I had to go right into the teeth of it. So I thought to myself, I could skirt the gum drop because the right bunker's 10 yards shorter, I could get to the right bunker

and I said, well, where's the flag? And the flag was 30 feet back. Normally, if they put that flag like three feet on the front edge, I'd have to go for the right bunker. The flag was a green light flag. It was wide open, right? It was literally 30 feet back from the front edge. So you could hold it with your wedge. And sure enough, a guy in front of me,

a few groups in front of me actually hold it. So anyways, I've actually missed the green, my wedge made a par and Langer made birdie, I think, but they were saying I should have gone for. You know, I just didn't feel like that was the way to go. And that's where I was. So it's interesting.

Yeah, when I was watching it last night, you know, I was kind of trying to, I was trying to view it through very open eyes, right? And I'm watching it, and I'm seeing how you just look uncomfortable with the shot. And every player, and especially ones at your level, know what kind of shots you're comfortable with, right? So I'm watching you kind of go back and forth on it,

and it just doesn't look like, if you're uncomfortable with it, you're not gonna stand up and hit a great shot. Like it just doesn't happen, even at the top uncomfortable with it, you're not gonna stand up and hit a great shot. Like it just doesn't happen even at the top level. And I'm like, okay, this is actually starting to make sense. And then the more time went by and how the announcers were so hard on the decision, I walked away being like, you know what, they're right.

He made a big mistake there, he should have gone for it. And then I started thinking about it more and I thought, is that just a true disconnect between what goes on on the ground and what goes on in the booth and how the viewer reacts to it? Because you did get crushed for it. And I just wonder how much effect what the announcers had to say about it had on the populist. It's viewing it. They were so decisive that we had to go there, had to go there.

But in 1993, a 250 yard shot to on almost island green is a lot different shot than it is today with the technology one. And like it is just a, if you aren't, like I said, if you're not comfortable with the number and the shot, there's no point in trying to hit it and ruining your tournament. And so that was kind of where I came, you know, kind of came to that conclusion and I was curious to hear, you know, your reaction and if you regretted not going for it. You know, knowing what I know now, sure you just go for it and risk it all,

doesn't it? I mean, that just wasn't in my psychology of the way I played golf, you know, for me, I'm trying to make a living playing golf early on and I had to realize that I had to eliminate as much risk as I could on every hole I played to give myself the best opportunity to score. I couldn't throw shots away. I wasn't like a Nicholas where I had 25 extra yards in the bag. I mean, that was the thing. 15 was so long. You're used to seeing people who had irons in there. I mean you saw Sevy get a foreign in the war, you know. And when he lost Nicholas in 86. So these guys are really long-hittered, you know. And that's such an advantage at Augusta,

whereas myself, you know, like even occurred a stranger when he had a chance to win. He drove the ball about the same distances as me. So we had to get hooks. And I think that's why, you know, Khrinshaw played well there and Langer played well there because they're natural hookers of the ball. And that was their go-to shot. But you take a hell of an Irwin or a Lietra Veno with a low cut or me with a low cut.

It, the golf course, I literally had probably a very small percentage chance of actually winning the tournament. You have to hook it. But yeah, it was really hard to get slayed like that. And I think it hurt me emotionally because I'd never been called a coward. And looking back on it, I realized that my personality is one of the things that held me back because I was, my choking was not that I actually choked, but my choking came from trying too hard being too careful. And that's as big a choke as anything. You know, you get it a John Bailey, he just turns it loose. I said, man, that just wouldn't be my style. I wish I had that Cavalier attitude, but I could have never made it on tour that way.

I just, I didn't have the natural gift like that. You know what I'm saying? I didn't have it. And watching again, it wasn't like you weren't hitting extremely ballsy shots, right? I mean, you're shot into 12. Nobody goes at that back right pin and lives to tell the tale.

And you did and you hit that forewood from a hanging lie on 13 right in the middle of the green. And it was very committed. And that's where I was like watching the 13 shot. I was like, you know what, man, if he would have felt comfortable with that shot on 15, he would have swung it just like he did on 13, but it just is not always the case. And I love going back and watching guys play 13 and 15 in the 90s. I think that's like the peak technology era for those holes watching Fowdo and 96 spend three minutes trying to make

a decision between I assume it's like two iron or three wood or four wood or something like that was it's just a totally different part of the game that has been lost and especially going back and watching them, you know, 30 years later, it's impossible to, you know, people lose perspective on what those shots were like in that time period and how difficult they were and how much of a decision it was. So. It never entered my mind that I wouldn't hit a great shot.

When I never, it never entered my mind. I was not afraid of that shot. I wasn't concerned about missing the shot. Nothing. I knew I was going to hit a great shot. The problem was if I could hit of that shot. I wasn't concerned about missing the shot. Nothing. I knew I was going to hit a great shot. The problem was if I could hit a great shot and come up short, that's the part that I was concerned about.

That's why if the flag had been different, I'd probably skirted that gum drop as Tim Near called it, you know, tried to catch that right bunker. I'd had a chance to get it up and down. Those holes were very long, like I said. I mean, it was when I played in 96 that fell a hit of wedge in the 15,

I'd never seen anything like that. The ball was going so far. What happened with your, with your caddy after the 93 masters? Dave and I worked together for many years. And actually the guy that caddy for me in 93 was Pete Bender and Venturi came up in his cart right after I hit that shot and say hey Pete should chip have gone for it and he said

yeah he should have and I said Pete out, man. I already'm telling. And because I thought, you know what, whether you like me or not or whatever you think, your boss, the way I looked at it, and I'm the guy that you know you're their fight in the battle with. So anyways, and Venturi didn't know Pete Bender. He didn't know his weaknesses and his strengths as well. And Pete Bender had always caddyed for the big dogs like Norm and her.

These guys had hit it a country mile. I don't think he ever worked with a player like me. And so I didn't have a lot of confidence that he actually knew what he was talking about in the first place. So that was just my personal opinion. And I love Pete, Pete's a good guy, good caddy, but at that time I had to split with him because I can't have

gone to bag doing that to me, especially at a peak time like that. So yeah, nobody's ever asked that question. Those are tough decisions, but those are the things that make off really interesting. You know, I think that can give you a lot of regret as you get older. But yet I've learned to accept things and really enjoy the process that I've been through and what I've actually been able to accomplish. You mentioned this earlier when we're talking about 59 and you mentioned something there that I think every golfer, literally every golfer that has ever picked up a club has gone through in some way.

Yours is much more public and at the you know the highest level where you know personally I've been struggling with my game this year or the last six months and in April I shot the lowest score I've ever shot and I stand over the ball now I can't break 80 and I'm like how did I shoot blah blah blah six months ago eight months ago nine months ago how did I do that I it's totally gone. It's just not there anymore. And in the mid 90s, or I guess when do you start, when do you start to lose your game and kind of what contributes to some struggles you had

in the mid to late 90s? Yeah, I think the first thing is I started losing my eyesight. And it's like, you know, I was trying contacts. I remember talking to Hillur when I said, hell, how have you done it playing with contacts? He said, Chip, look at my eyes. He said, I finished that 18th poll, I rip them out. He said, they hurt so bad, his eyes are so red.

I said, you've got to be kidding me. I don't know how you do that. That to me was like really a hard thing to do. And I saw I tried playing with glasses. I tried it. I just, you know, it affects your confidence. And another thing that happened was I changed after, after 93, the master's playing well.

I was at the height of my career. I went to talk to John Sohom about, you know, extending my contract. And I wanted some idea of what they were going to pay me because they had an award system that they set up. And I never was too concerned about it, but I was offered a contract with a company for 600,000 for four years. That was like a life's work for me. John could never tell me what he was gonna pay me. And I said, man, John, I'm sorry, I'm gonna have to leave. And so I left, but in the process, I went from the best club maker to the one of the worst

at the time, and literally I couldn't get a driver to fit me into the British open. That really, that was the straw that broke the camel's back. I was pretty much burnt out because I'd gone through a divorce, I'd gone through, you know, playing so hard from the time I was a little kid all the way through. And I'd just gotten to the point where I'd made enough money where I could take a breather. And oh my gosh, I was exhausted and I was burnt out. And then that, when I got to the point where, you know, I got clubs that couldn't fit me,

they were actually making irons with titanium. You couldn't bend it one degree without the neck breaking. So I couldn't get clubs to fit me. And that was a straw that broke the camel's back. And so I actually, after three years, I gave them back the 650,000 for the next year. And I said, do we need to part our ways? Y'all are losing money, I'm losing money.

Let's get on with it. I probably should have kept the money kept it the next year and just worked through it. But I was just so frustrated with it. I couldn't, I had to give it back. I figured I'd make it up with better equipment. And so anyways, those are the kind of things that happened. And I was starting to get some back trouble,

played with a close face like about 40 of us, because we were told to keep flat left wrist. So coming down into the ball, my face was closed. So I had to arch my back to get the ball in the air. And man, I tore up my right side. They're about 40 of us that had the same problem. You're going to see just like these young kids today, they're six or seven kids playing with that bowed left wrist where they have their head drops four to eight inches like Trevino. Well, when they get

in their 40s, they're going to have real back trouble. If not real wrist problems, you can already see Justin Thomas who was taught with a guy my age. He's got his thumb just slightly to the right side of the shaft. And he, he twists the club on the downswing and it puts the right wrist in a real bad position. So, you know, a couple years ago at August, he's got the right wrist bandaged up. So, you play as much golf and you have a little problems with your hands. It's really hard to play your best. And a lot of that's just mechanically driven by how much and how you use your hands. You know, it's like Paula Kramer with a weak grip. She tore up all the tendons in her

thumb. You know, she should have been in the hall of fame, but she couldn't hit it because she couldn't use her hips and thighs because her grip was too weak. If you did it, she used her legs, she'd hit the ball to the right every time. So she was a hands player and'd hit the ball till the right every time. So she was a hands player and didn't know how to use her body. So it's unfortunate. People don't know that even the day.

I think that's where the young players miss out. I see Ricky Fowler just spinning the face with his chip shots. He leaves it in the bunker a couple of times when he's leading majors, once the US open. I saw him do it at the TPC. He's got a lob it on five yards and it rolls five yards into the cup.

Well, he hits it about two feet and then chips it in. These guys are child prodigies, you know, but their techniques just not as good as it could be. I never saw Sevy do that. Even Jason Day makes two double bogies because he's got a real tough chip. Like at 16 he's 10 yards left of the green at the TPC and he leaves it short of the green and chips it up.

Sevy would have never done that. He'd just taken a bigger swing, lobbed the ball higher tiger would have done it. Put it up on that green, just let it land, he'd always get a putt. But you know, Jason Day, they're so good, you know, to make two doubles in the back nine and still win the tournament, I could have never done that. I mean, just this, that's how gifted these players are. That's my story. I'm sticking to it. Yeah. No, it's, I find it very interesting. I was, you know, going through last night, wondering, you know, kind of game planning what we were going to talk about and everything.

And just your, you know, transition, you know, from being a top player in the game to missing a lot of cuts consecutively and going through, I mean, from a professional golf standpoint, I imagine that's as close to, you know, as close to hell as you're going to find in that scale in terms of, you know, how public everything is and everyone wondering probably what's happening and then you go on away from the game for a while and coming back to it, I think it's a fascinating arc. So I'm wondering how you knew, if you could talk to, I believe it was 46 consecutive cuts missed between 97 and 98.

When you knew it was time to walk away from the game, what you did and kind of what that was like. Yeah, that was a real trying time for sure because I was burnt out. I really wasn't playing my best game. I was getting up there in age, but the disciplines that I had developed from working out in the morning, working out at night, and staying in really good shape, I created so many great disciplines to carry me that it really kept me going and kept me pushing. But as I look back on it,

I played the piano and I always thought, you know, the rest and the music is equally as important as the music itself. And if I had to do it over again, I would have taken a rest. When I got to where I literally, I couldn't get the ball in play after I've tried to win the gust of hitting that 30 yard hook. I spent the next year and a half like in the right rough trying to hit my fame. And I mean, I was out of the tournament 99% of the first nine holes. I'd shoot 3940 on the first nine holes I was playing. I'm out of the event. I think I might have had one good top 10 finish watch. shoot 30, 40 in any round, any nine for any 18 holes. Just you can't make it up.

You've got to be an offensive player when you play the tour. It was cost to be $5,000 a week to get there. I had six kids or five, actually six children, but five under the, four under the age of five. I got to where I couldn't play and I called my friend Joel Hirsch. kids are five, actually six children, but five under the, four under the age of five,

I got to where I couldn't play, and I called my friend Joel Hirsch. I said, Joel, man, I'm, I've got six kids to put through college. I really, I don't think I can play golf anymore. I said, I need, I need to make a living. And he said, meet me on Monday morning, he introduced me a guy named John Vitt.

For the next six years, I was playing seven events on the nationwide tour and where I could play on tour. I was selling insurance and I was getting Monday morning, every Monday morning I would have a two hour instructional learning about the insurance business and learning how premium finance insurance, whatever it was, I was taught by this guy.

So I'd bring people in. He went, John Vitt went to every meeting with me and I learned a lot about the business world. And you know, without it, I probably wouldn't have had a chance to work with Jim Sutty. When I came home, I worked with him every chance I had for gosh, 15 years easily. I learned so much from him every time I saw him, I was growing and improving.

And he actually gave me a chance to play again because the hardest thing in golf is when you get a phobic response to your driver, when you know you're going to miss it before you get there, I went to Rotella and Dick Coop. I learned all the tricks on how to, you know, like I remember Dick Coop saying Chip, guys, it drive it poorly. They over-ane, they're jamming thoughts, and they're over-aiming. They're three things that they do, and that jamming thoughts is really your mind's too active. You've got to keep that level of anxiety down to about a four to five level instead of

a ten level. So it takes a while to get over that. So, you know, Stenson is the first guy that I've ever seen in history golf that's actually lost his ability to drive like Marty Fleckman, early on, or in Baker Finch. And I experienced it myself. I said, it's impossible to come back from because there are a thousand different moving parts with a driver and yet you have to really know what you're doing to get the swing and get the ball back in play and then to build the confidence. So Stinson is really a very strong person to be able to come back from that. Nobody in the history of games been able to do it. That's one of the great challenges in life though. How do you actually manage being at the bottom of the barrel

and what goes on in your mind? So I think you learn a lot at that time about yourself and you grow through it. Does it make you appreciate the top golf you played also and maybe at the time you maybe couldn't have perspective on it, but going through the struggles is make you look back and say, man, you know what, I was really, really, really good. Yeah, like I'll never forget, I'm walking to the first tee on Sunday at Shinnocock and

I'm playing with Sevy that day. It's the final round of the US Open and I was hitting the ball. I felt physically so strong. I'd been running for two weeks prior to that Friday of that week and I said, I'm going to stop Friday so I can really feel good Sunday morning. Well, that Sunday morning, I knew I was hitting it on all cylinders. I was hitting it so good. I thought, oh my gosh, I'm really hitting it good today. I feel great. And I remember going to the first 10 I'm thinking, I still have to hit that ball in play. I'm just going to stick that in my bag like the 15th club that I'm really on. But I'm not going

to think about it. I'm just going to feel it. Heck, I shot 65 that day and almost won the tournament. You know, if I could have, if I'd had my putt on the lower side of the cup versus the upper side of the cup at 18, who knows what could have happened. Raymond Floyd might not have birdied 16 and it could have been a different ballgame. It was a great experience.

So yeah, you do appreciate the experiences you had and I think they get highlighted because You know it life goes by really quick like I have really have no regrets about what happened and what I've done I wish I could have played better and I wish I could have made better decisions Early in my life. It probably would have helped me you know being the Hall of Fame for But the thing is, I'm a better man because of it. And I think that I wouldn't change a thing because it was something that I'm actually a better person today than I would have been if everything had gone my way. Well, what are you doing these days? You know, we were talking before we started recording about some of the teaching stuff you've got

going on. And it sounded extremely interesting. I wonder if you could tell us about that. Well, a friend from on Tim Tierney out of Boston, I was teaching with him down in Florida. And he was showing me this app called Perfect Motion. And he said, Chip, this thing will detect 18 different faults in your golf swing. And so it's a really, it's a motion training system is what it is.

And it's a platform that allows you to expand your brand in a very unique way. So every teacher has the ability, like when you go on it, a person can choose you as their coach. They can get your video fixed right on the app. And it was like $6 a month. And then they can, you know, if they like what they're learning through the app,

itself, the perfect motion app, they can hire you as their coach. So it really tests and looks for efficient body motion and eliminating, you know, like your big faults. And so it tracks you on many different levels. Like I have a student that was, you know, like your big faults. And so it tracks you on many different levels. Like I have a student that was, you know, she was a college tennis player at the University of Chicago. So she's smart girl and she's a technology girl.

And she said, man, Chip, I really like this app. And so I said, we'll sit and take some putts and take some swings. And so I noticed that she was her motion map, they call it. That's the technology it shows your address position, top of the swing, and then it impact. And you just put your camera on the ground and the camera detects it all. And I said, Hey, look, this is where you need to set up. So I center a picture of like Paula Kramer and center picture of picture of this LPGA, I think it was Sandra Gals.

She had a white jacket on with a white line showing tilt at a dress. And she said, wow, Chip, I never understood. I couldn't visually, I'm definitely a visual learner. I couldn't figure out what tilt meant. Now I see it. And then I showed her, I said the same thing in putting, set up like this LPGA player. And she texted me back a week later, she said, Chip, I played the best golf on my life.

I broke 100 for the first time. And it was just a couple of real quick lessons and she got better immediately. And I thought, wow, this is a really good technology. So now they have what they call a perfect motion performance index, because it's really, the guy that invented the company, Rich Kuzaski, is a data scientist. And he's got two degrees from MIT.

He's a baker scholar from Harvard. I mean, this guy didn't fall off the turn-up truck yesterday. And so he invented this using data science and the teaching pros like Tim Tierney. And now we have like 16 guys using it. And we've got people all over the world coming into it now.

So we have guys in England teaching guys in Florida and guys in North Carolina teaching guys in England. So it's really a fun thing. And the thing is it's so that I can't pick up what the camera can pick up. And so like for instance, I would always see when I'm teaching like reverse pivot. But the reality is most people never get back. So they're always in front of the ball at impact. Well, the camera picks that up. The perfect motion app picks that up. And so you can, you know, your performance index, now there's competitions like there was a little girl in in Raleigh that was really interested in getting

better at putting. And she jumped on me, she said, hey, Chip, he's one of our coaches, Mike Sullivan in Raleigh. And she wanted me to have a contest with her and see if she can get her PPI's high as mine. So we have a contest going. And she's in Raleigh. I'm in Florida, North Carolina, Chicago. So it's, you know, you get better through using the perfect motion app.

So I think it's gonna really take off. It's something where all these big platforms, these people that have 650,000 followers, they can actually give personal lessons to each and every one of their students, which is pretty cool. Oh, that sounds great. I could tell you you still have a ton of enthusiasm for the game and for teaching and golf swing and everything. So it's, you got me thinking a lot about a lot of things in my swing just through Osmosis there of like, I got like two swing thoughts there.

And now I'm wondering about my club face and the open face draw and the closed face fade and all that stuff. So just go to perfectmotion.io. Sign up, sign chip back 59 as your coach. And I'll start coaching you as a matter of fact, why don't you send me three students and I'll coach them for free just because you're you have a great podcast. How's that? Well, I greatly appreciate that my current coach will be very upset that you're swooning

me here in public. So, uh, that's okay. You can show it to him. He'll probably make a lot of money with it down the road. And it's probably saving a lot of headaches as well. Awesome. Well, Chip, I can't thank you enough for your time. And I hope this isn't the last time. I'd love to have you on some of periodically just to chat golf. You got great stories and really appreciate you sharing your story

and your perspective on a career in golf. So thank you for joining us and hope to chat soon. Absolutely. Thanks for having me. I always enjoy being with you. Thank you, cheers. Good luck with everything. Thank you. Give it a big club. Be the right club today.

That's better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most. Better than most.