No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - NLU Podcast, Episode 410: Hunter Mahan

Episode Date: March 17, 2021

Tremendous insight from Hunter Mahan on his recent struggles, his relationship with the game of golf, his ridiculously good run on tour, what changed, some insights into how decisions have been made in past Ryder Cups, the fallout from the 2010 Ryder Cup, his path back to playing great golf, and so much more. This one goes straight to the NLU podcast hall of fame. Thanks a ton to Hunter for the time.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm going to be the right club today. Yes! That is better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the No-Lang, a podcast, Sully here. I am stoked, absolutely stoked about today's interview with Hunter Mayhan, chatted with him last week about pretty much everything under the sun. I really tried to start with all the good stuff and then leading into some

of the struggles of late, but he steered right into talking about the struggles, so much rider cup stuff in this. Some really, really great perspective. I can't wait for you guys to listen to it. Want to give a shout out to our friends at woopwhop.com. You can use promo code No Laying Up, all one word for 15% off at checkout. I got to be honest. I've let my woop die last week and I couldn't find the charger for it. I finally found it today, got it rebooted. And I'll admit the time that I was, you know,

where my whoop was dead, I let things slip. I didn't have that thing there to hold me responsible for getting to bed on time, getting enough sleep, not drinking as much, you know, actually, you know, learning when to put strain on my body, knowing what my body was gonna be doing on a certain day based on how well recovered I was, I let it slip and I'm back, I'm plugged in,

I'm back in the game and it goes to show that, one, I just need some accountability, I need something to hold me responsible. It gives you great data on how often you're waking up during the course of the night, what your resting heart rate is overnight, your heart rate variability. If you want your body to perform well, you need a whoop. Go to whoop.com, WHOOP.

It's a fitness wearable. You wear it all day. You can shower with it. It is way easier to charge than I would lead you to believe. whoop.com. Use promo code NoLangUp for 15% off at checkout. Let's get to Hunter Mayhem. So I did a little research as I want to do,

and I hear you're a huge gear head. When I heard that, I was like, oh, okay, I mean, whatever, he's into golf equipment, whatever. But I hear it's actual, it's not golf equipment. It's in the actual garage. Where does that passion come from? Yeah, you know, it became a little bit of a thing when I joined the tour, I got a little bit of a thing when I joined the tour, got a little bit of money

and then I started buying some cars and my dad is really into that stuff and we would go to car shows when I was a kid. I wouldn't buy any means coming to the for gear head. I think I just like cars and when I was single and had some money, I would spend some money on them and have all kinds of different ones. I kind of liked having like a variety more than I liked maybe say having a super nice one.

You know, it's just something that I kind of enjoyed at the time. I'm definitely not as into now. I just don't have the time for it. But, but I do like it. I think it's just it's something that's so the mechanical engineering perspective of it and how things work and it I think it's just so it's something that's so the mechanical engineering perspective of it and how things work and, and I think it's just so neat and so cool to see. And we built a couple cars years ago to see it kind of transform. I think it's so neat and I think I always liked, I almost liked the process of seeing it grow

and then driving. And then I'd be like, okay, I want to do something else. So it was, you know, I just, I just like seeing it kind of go from these guys would make it from parts. And I like kind of the designing aspect of it, maybe more so than the actual, you know, getting under a hood and actually do anything, but I think anything with design,

I've always kind of liked. That's interesting. You mentioned money there a couple times and being single and starting to get some money. So I want to ask, I always want to ask, well, what's it like to be young and just kind of have it? You just have a big influx of money come in very quickly due to successes you have on the golf course as well. But it sounds like, you know, you have some spending habits with that money. But what's that like to kind of, you know, have that happen at a young age?

Oh my gosh, I wish I could go back in time and tell my give myself an advice. But when you're when you're young, the only person you think about is yourself and that's not in a selfish standpoint, that's just what you know. Yeah, I'm 23. I'm a and only child as well. So, you know, 23, 24, 25, I really was just focused on getting my career going and feeling stabilized in that. So that's the only thing I really was just focused on getting my career going and feeling stabilized in that. So that's the only thing I really thought about. I got a great opportunity with pain coming right out of college and I just was living by myself and I didn't even know what I wanted, right?

And I just practiced and played all the time and I guess I had money, but I really had no sense of scope of how much and what I could spend and how long it last me if I couldn't play golf anymore. You know, it's clearly I just I didn't know what I didn't know at the time and I wish I could go back and tell myself, listen, you're going to like this, but you're really not going to enjoy it as much as you think you would. But, you know, it was, I feel pretty lucky to have the opportunities that I had as a young person. And to be where I am today, I feel extremely lucky to be sitting here today. Well, two things I want to unpack from that. One, you said you're not going to enjoy it

as much as you think you would. I'd like to know kind of what that means, one and two. What you would have told yourself, what else you would have told yourself, what to do with money or, because from what I gather, I don't, at least I'm not aware of the tour, it doesn't do any financial training

or anything like that, which I think some of the other sports leagues have started doing in somewhat recent years, but when you're coming out of college, even if you're coming with a college education, everything, it's not like you walk into a young career knowing exactly what to do when you do have money.

So I leave college sign a contract with paying and then I'm like, okay, now I've got to get I'm playing a few tour events. I go to Q school, get my car. I really was only focused about just getting my golf going and really figuring out how am I going to do this on tour because it's a daunting thing to go from college. And then I was suddenly you're on your own, and you're traveling, and you're trying to figure out where to stay and where to eat, how to live, and really becoming the best golfer you can be,

and what that means. I kind of just moved around a little bit. I was kind of like, I kind of liked it over here, but I didn't know if this golf course was the best for me, and I kind of lived kind of away from Dallas, probably 45 minutes outside. I kind of played in Bacero at the time, but it was, I was just kind of all by myself. My folks were much more in MacKaney at the time. So I was just kind of, you know, in this kind of smaller town.

And I wish I just kind of would have found a golf course, got an apartment, and just kind of stayed there for a while until I needed to upgrade and get a little bit something bigger with, you know, if I had a girlfriend or my wife, and then we'd go from there. I kind of just jumped around all the time, not really knowing what I was doing. You need to figure out what you wanted, take some time to figure out what you wanted. You don't even know what you want at that age. You're just kind of like, that sounds fun. I'll do that all of there. It's just, I was just kind of scatterbrained a little bit. But I really was only focused just on myself and in my golf

and sort of training and figuring out how I could be a good golfer. And luckily, like I said, luckily, I actually got around a lot of good people. My financial guy, I had back then I still have the day, having someone you really trust. You hear so many sad stories about guys who do so much in their sport and make so much money.

And then a bad financial guy takes it all from them. And it's so sad and ridiculous. And it's an overwhelming thing to think of. A 19, 2020 old kid get a bunch of money. He actually doesn't understand that. Golf is great because you can have a long career. But a lot of guys have such short careers making the money last for a long, long time.

That's a really hard challenge and to change your spending habits from when you're 24 to when you're 44 is a big deal. And it's I think it's very daunting for those young guys who in different sports who maybe didn't really open up anything. And then all of a sudden they have all this money and all this access. It's it's very overwhelming for a young person. Yeah. And is that what you mean by you're not going to enjoy it really as much as you thought you would as well? Does that cover that as well? Yeah, things come and go, right?

Like it's just, you know, the things I enjoyed, maybe I thought I enjoyed when I was 25, and now I'm, you know, almost 40. My life is just so much simpler than it was back then. But you're in your young young and you don't know anything you're thinking about is yourself and your golf. And oh, that sounds cool. Can I get that?

And it's like, yeah, you can. You can get that car or whatever. And like, oh, that's fun. That's cool. But you're just kind of moving off from the next term to the next term with all this energy and excitement. So it's just maturing and it's just growing like any person

and your likes change. And what makes you happy and what makes you stabilized changes through time. Yeah, we started doing this podcast about seven years ago and I would cringe to go back and listen to what I was kind of important at age 27 versus now I'm married and at age 34 like life really does change I think we're gonna get into gonna get into some of that in the back half But we're gonna talk a lot of golf and I do want to kind of start with a lot of the a lot of the fun stuff of your career But I want to start kind of the golf conversation with what is your relationship with golf right now? How would you describe your relationship with golf? You know, it's been definitely challenging for the last few years. It's just I still enjoy practicing and in sort of the grinding aspect of figuring it out and figuring out like who I

The challenge of who I was and who I am moving forward and how those are gonna sort of cross paths You know, I'm working with Sean Foley of cross paths. I'm working with Sean Foley right now and Sean was with me during the best years of my career and I'm trying to figure out how to get back to that. I think we've been kind of piecing it together over the past couple of months. But every person, just like a fingerprint, has their own sort of identity and their own move in a way and what they feel comfortable doing and what they can do without thinking and under pressure and Figure out kind of what that is and kind of holding that and sticking to that is really really challenging and One of the parts that's been super challenging is figuring out what the actual problem is and

To fix that because it kind of feels like is that the problem or is that what's kind of helping me hit a good shot with that feel is it'll golf is very challenging in that aspect that it's you know it takes a long time to go down the wrong path it doesn't happen overnight it's like, real slow bleed. And you don't really know what happened until it's like, man, I just don't feel the same way I did when I was hitting it pure. And I would just stand up in the tee and I look at my target. My caddy would say, right at that tree, and I would just look at it and I would do it. And then when you look at that tree, five years down the road, and all right, I'm going to hit it right there and you don't hit it there. And then when you look at that tree, five years down the road and, all right, I'm gonna hit it right there

and you don't hit it there and it goes left of it and then it goes right of it. You're like, huh, that's different. I'm not quite sure how to fix that. It's challenging, but I still, you know, I wake up today and I'm excited to go figure it out and I do feel like I am piecing it together to work off. I can look at it, I can trust what I'm doing and just do it and see where I want to go and it does that and I can feel it when it's good and I can feel when it's not good,

but no why it's not good. Well, you just answered like 18 of the questions I think I had for further down the road there, but I'd say answer it. You know, what I was really after there is, do you wake up still wanting with the energy that you've always had to get better and go chase it and go get it, or is it with malaise that you go through the route of trying to figure it out? And that answers the question very well.

I'm encouraged to hear that you still enjoy that aspect of it and going out and go get it. It sounds like I don't want to generalize this to say you were young and dumb because you had 8, 9, 10 years of sustained success in professional golf and a time goes into that. You've got to play for a long period of time without having to doubt anything in your process. You talked about seeing that tree and hitting it right there.

Now, when you, I don't wanna say admit that there is a problem, but now that you know, you have that problem word in there, that's what you're trying to overcome more than you are trying to hit it right at that tree. I don't know if that, how I said that makes sense. Well, yeah, you can't be scared to say, man, I've got, you know, it's a vulnerability is a good thing.

You gotta tell yourself, man, I've got, you know, it's a vulnerability is a good thing. You got to tell yourself, man, I don't get it. You know, I told, I called Sean after Pebble and it was even after the first round and I was like, you know, I shot 60, say, and I was like, I don't get it. I'm not feeling it or understanding it. I need, I need help. I need, you know, we're, I'm missing something. And so there was a few years where I was like going to the golf course going I got no idea what's going on like I just don't feel it. I don't I don't have a trust I don't quite understand and so that's really hard and that's a very very Uncontroll feeling to go out there and play golf and feel like I'm not really sure what it's gonna do today And I don't know if it's gonna miss left or miss right.

That was very tough time where I was like, I just don't really wanna be out here because there is no hope because I don't really know what the problem is. And so that was hard and I was definitely a struggle. And like I said, it's a slow bleed. Like when you see with, it's great to see Jordan Spees come out of it.

But did anyone ever think in Jordan Spees 20 said he would struggle to the point where he falls out of the top 15 of the world? And it's like, that's just assing I think the guys just that he's a grinder and he's a boss of what he does. But it's a slow bleed. It's not something that happens quickly. And so it's really hard to see the problem because it would just kind of happen overnight,

but it took a while to get there. And that's the challenge that golf is, you could be, you know, it's almost kind of, when you look at Tiger's time with Hank, it was really, I mean, it was just higher normal. And then all of a sudden it just kind of, it just stopped and you're like, it just doesn higher, normal. And then almost suddenly, it just stopped. And you're like, it just doesn't look the same anymore. Something's off.

And then he grinded away, got with Foley, and got it backing in quickly. That's, it's really hard to find your DNA and understanding of, what do I do? And how do I get better at doing that? That's a hard question to ask because everyone's trying to get better, but it's a fine line between doing that

and still keeping your DNA in what you do and why you are great at it and you can repeat it when you need to. Well, and it's also when you're, let's look at a, you know, a five-year sustained success period of time, right? Within that period of time, you're going to have troughs. You're going to have times when you're not as sharp. And when you're in that moment, it's impossible to know

if that is the beginning of a downturn, or if it's just variance within, you know, otherwise good fundamentals and sustained success, right? You don't know that it's going all the way down. You know, you could have two great weeks and then miss a cut and you don't know if that's what little blip on the radar or if that is the signifying thing that things are about to go down. And I'm wondering with you, you know, having that seven to eight straight years of just pure success, did you appreciate how special that was at the time? And is your perspective on, you know, what that stretch means,

changed it all in the last few years? A little bit, I mean, I think the rise of going from college, a couple years on tour, kind of, I went actually, you know, kind of back and forth on tour, and then I started to gain momentum and some confidence and then I've got with Sean and things started to really go to where I was really strong and what I was doing and it was consistent even though I felt like I could get better and so I was still okay in some areas but I was so consistent with my ball striking day and then day out.

Ball striking is the most important thing in golf. So that's that being my strength and my driving, my iron plays, what kind of propelled me for such a long time. For such a long time, when you're in it, you're just doing it and you're just playing and you're just a part of it. I don't know if you do. I definitely did. I mean, all the team events to me are those moments where you feel like,

wow, I am in the company of greatness. I was thinking about the playing with Justin Leonard who is someone I grew up watching and practicing next to Endales and now I'm playing in a Ryder Cup with him. Jack Nicholas calling me and saying, hey, I'm gonna be a part of the Presidents Cup team. Tiger Woods happening me on the shoulder at

Harding Park on the bus on Saturday afternoon when we came up with our singles matches. And I was first off and he's like, hey, you're the first man out there. We've got to keep the momentum. You're the biggest part of that. You need to go out there and win tomorrow. Those things and those moments I look back on, I think, wow, I was a part of that. I was a part of history in a way. And I think of I think look back on, I think, wow, I was a part of that. I was a part of history in a way. And I think of my career and I think, man, I'm so proud of that because that is so cool

and awesome to have been in those moments and had those experiences with those guys that I grew up watching. With success, too, that's the thing that, you know, you go flip, you were on, I think every presence cup and rider cup team between like, oh, seven and 2011 and then you were on the 2013 presence cup, 2014 Ryder Cup. Like you were on so many of those teams and had a crazy good record. And you obviously you won the WGC match play. You've done world match play

stuff. You had an incredible match play record. What at the top level? What makes a great match play player versus you know a 72-hole stroke play tournament? You know you've won five of those events as well, but what made you excel in the match play? I don't know. I mean all the players are good. It's a little bit of luck. You know I played really well at that golf course. You know I don't know. I think it's you know I enjoy I think you just have to enjoy it for one. You have to enjoy it, Max. Well, I know some guys don't, but I just enjoyed it. I enjoyed the competition, the head-on head. You're just trying to beat that guy and you're just trying to figure it out.

I think my game lended itself to good success because I would just be so consistent, fairway and green. I think I always made the other players think that he's not going to make a mistake. And there's a reason, you know, Tiger always played well on those events because he just fairways and greens. I'm just going to bore you to death almost in a way and I'm just going to keep putting the pressure on you and making you think I'm going to do something great, even though I might not, I might just hit a good shot, but I'm never going to be in trouble. And so when you play these great, great players, it's just a little mistake and getting one down at the wrong moments, you know, could end the match.

So I just, I enjoyed it and my ball striking always just felt like it put pressure on the other guys over and over again. A quick break here to check in with our friends at Original Penguin. I can save you the Instagram DM. I get so many questions about what kind of hoodie I'm wearing, where are those shorts from, where are those pants from? They are so crispy.

Sully, you are the best dresser of all of the, okay, maybe that part is a little bit of a stretch. They're all from Original Penguin. I wear Original Penguin stuff every day of my life. I sleep in their shorts at night. I wear their sweat pants. I wear their hoodies on a near daily basis. I wear their golf shorts.

I wear some of the, I've been kind of getting into the little shorter shorts. I feel like those are about to make a big comeback. Can't quite execute them. The look I'm after on the golf course yet, but we're working on it. I need to fill out my quads a little bit more with that. It's got everything from, you everything from casual wear, dress wear,

golf wear, they got a great section of what's new on their website. They got great stuff on sale. Cameron Smith is a heavily featured athlete of theirs and we're going to have some content coming out in relation to the original Penguin. It's partnered with us on in relation to camsmith as well. So go to originalpenguin.com, always remember to be

an original and now let's get back to 100 Mayhand. Well, I want to go to originalpenguin.com, always remember to be an original, and now let's get back to Hunter Mayhem. Well, I want to go to that 2008 Ryder Cup team, you know, how you got onto that team, you know, you don't see many captains picks going all five matches, and how A'singer went about, you know, going about, you know, getting input from players into how they were put into pods, and we can talk some about how the teams in your later part of your career were formed as well, because that one seems to stick out to me and how that was done So how would you compare it compare it to you know later years how teams were put together and how that team worked versus the your first year in

2008 I Remember getting talking about Paul a couple times beforehand I was just you know in and out in and out of the team for a while and he gave me great advice I remember because I talked to him and I said, you know, probably just want you, I really, I want to be on this team more than anything. I mean, I grew up watching the Ryder Cup. I love the passion and I, I mean, I understand.

I got great experience from the president's cup. I can't tell you how much it would mean to me to be a part of the team and any tell me, you know, I want, he's like, I, I believe in you and I, and I, and I want you to be a part of this. and any tell me, you know, I want you, he's like, I believe in you and I want you to be a part of this and I want you to, I don't want you to want it the right amount. I don't want you to want it too much and for pressure on yourself. And I don't want you to just kind of hope you make it, you know, but you know, I want you to

live in that great space of of of of wanting it just the right amount and and and be good to yourself and just keep doing what you're doing because you're on the right path. So that gave me a lot of confidence that he just told me that whether I made it to or not. When he did, he did so many amazing things very subtly. He gave a lot of ownership to the team because the pod said, hey, we want Hunter Man on the stage. And so that little group, he gave ownership to me,

he said, hey, who do you guys want? And so that's how I made the team with our pod was AK, Phil, and Justin. And a lot was made of these personality tests, but he was just trying to get the right people together to play their very best. And the hardest part of it, and what always seemed to, a few guys made some captains, made some comments like,

hey, he's like, I don't want, I want 12 guys to bond, not just a couple in a pod. They were very like adamant about, we have to be a 12 guys. It'sant about we have to be a unit 12 guys. It's like we're not a unit of 12 guys. We're 12 individuals trying to figure it out this week. Let's get to know who we're going to play with on an intimate level and play for the next three, four days to understand maybe the nuances of each other and understand how each other

is going to play each whole. There's nothing wrong with that. There's no point in trying to figure out me, a player trying to figure out 11 other guys and how they're going to play. We know each other, but we're not going to play with everybody, and we shouldn't have the option to play with everybody. There's going to be a small group of us that needs to know each other and play well. We had a rough run and there was a going into that Ryder Cup. There was so much success of the presence cup. For some reason, the Ryder Cup had a lot of the guys who have been on some tough teams that you know, some of the pressure you're going to have, you're going to be on so much stress.

It's like they were kind of creating a snowball, whether they knew it or not. And we just, it just, you know, we got there. And it was just such a fun group. And Paul was so energetic. And he was just so excited for us. He was like, he was just so like, he's like, guys, you are, he's like, I am just so proud of you and I'm just so excited in it and I cannot wait to get out there and play the crown. I was excited. The crown is pumped. This is just, you know, it was,

it was just an amazing thing to be a part of and it just kind of quite hasn't, you know, I think when the US is one, they've just been so talented. I mean, there's been, you know, I got to do a little bit of the BBC in Hazeltein. And that team was just unbelievably talented. That was just tough to buy on the team. It was a joke how good they were and they just kind of overwhelmed Europe. But that 18 was just so fun. And they were, I mean, it was just so fun to be a part of and it felt like we were, even though we were in pods, man, we were a unit and we were so excited to go out there and play and play in front of those fans. And we just had so much fun.

Yeah, the more you describe that, the more I'm just like, man, the atmosphere, it almost like is a tight, wound tight promoted atmosphere, other than that year, you look back. You know, like almost every, everyone talks about the pressure, you're never gonna feel so much pressure, like the you are in your whole life, blah, blah, blah, all this and what you're saying about Paul,

you guys did look like you were having fun out there. And like what is more likely to promote good golf, going out having fun and being yourself or this expectation that you are going to be under the most pressure that you've ever been under in your whole life? Like, just, I've never seen it more clearly than that. You describing that of like, why these really talented teams have struggled to come up with writer cup wins. And what he did, too, I thought it was brilliant.

It was that he sort of laid everything out before we got there. He's like, this is your pod, this is your group, this is how we're going to play the course and we're going to, he's like, I want birdies, I want loud, I want energy, I want noise. So we're going to make it a little bit easier, we're going to take the rough down. He laid everything out there for everybody. So when we got there on Monday, everything was set in stone. We just had to go play. We just had to go figure out

how we're going to play the golf course. We just had to go. We didn't have to worry about anything. Everything was already done. Like he had the matches all set up throughout the week. I was and then he would make little changes, right? Like, A.K. and I were supposed to play a Saturday afternoon, but A.K. had a tough Saturday morning. And so it feels like, I'm good to go. I'm going to go play. And Justin's like, Hunter's playing great. Just keep him out there. And so he, everything was already set up. And sometimes you get to these events and it felt like, we're figuring out Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday about who we're going to play with and I remember In whale it wasn't whales, but it was

I was with it was with Watson Cleaning of Scythneos He said you're gonna go out with Jim Jim Furek now. I was like all right I had to play with Jim all week ahead and we're playing alternate shot. I had hit his ball all week It was like, all right, I had to play with Jim all week. I had him replaying all through a shot. I had to hit his ball all week. It was like, okay, we ran out to the range and we're like, Jim, what do you use? And it was just kind of like, you know, that's, you know, that was a little frustrating and it was tough about that week. But I love Jim Fierrick and I couldn't wait to play with him,

but I was just like, I wish I kind of played a little bit more with him than we to know that that was going to happen. And that's prepared for that. Right. And that's what Paul did. He just set everything up to where he's like, you guys just go out and play and just enjoy the crap about what you're going to experience. Because I want this to be so much fun for you. Because the fact is you made it.

You made it on the team. The hard work's done. You work two years to get to this point, go have fun and enjoy it. And that's what we felt that all week every day. Tell me you have a framed picture or something from your putt on 17 and a circles. Okay.

Oh yeah. I've got a different, there's a few pictures. Yeah, I've got one frame like that for sure. Golf celebrations never look cool and I can confidently say that's one of the best golf celebrations I think I've ever seen. Well, it's hilarious that how much emotion comes out in those events now, I felt like that kind of started it. You know, there was other times when you'd win. But it was, man,

it was just so hyped up. And I was, you know, it was cool because I was at, I put the junior rider cup and during Brookline, and we got to go on Thursday, Friday. They invited us out there. So it was cool to be a part of it as a young kid to see that. And I just, you know, Justin making that put up the hill. We weren't there that day, but I remember watching on TV and that celebration. People are running on the green and he's just, it's just bonkers about what's going on. And that's what the Ryder Cup is about. Those team events, it's just, you get to just lay it all out there and just have fun.

What they we love to joke about is you were you were sitting next to fill at those team events, it's just you get to just lay it all out there and just have fun. One thing we love to joke about is you were you were sitting next to Phil at that press conference in the 2014 Ryder Cup win. And your face is just as priceless as Phil, you know, Tom Watson is up there on the on the, you know, the ledge as well, sitting with you guys and he basically just challenges the whole US process, right? And I'm wondering, you know, what you're thinking at that time as it's happening, it seemed to be the sentiment of the team, you know, that he was representing. And wondering if, you know, Phil,

you thought Phil needed to do that publicly or, you know, it seemed like change came after that moment. And I am back and forth on whether that needed to be publicly done, but what are you sitting there thinking as Phil is doing that in the press conference? Yeah, I mean, I think Phil, I think those events are so personal to us

because we're in it when we're playing or trying, but sometimes we just don't have control over certain things. And that's a little frustrating, and it's frustrating for a guy like Phil who's been a part of every team since the early 90s, right and He knows kind of what works and and there's no in the world. I respect more than that Phil looks. I absolutely adore the guy He's someone I look up to and I and I call a great great friend We've talked about many different things and he's someone I take great advice from

in all sorts of areas. And I deeply respect his opinion on all kinds of things. And I think he just came to a head and he was like, you know, some changes need to be made. Every year we hear about Europe has like this process, right? And they've had this process for a long time about the captains being assistant captains. Like they had a beautiful process about what they were doing and how they were doing things.

And it was showing up because they were kicking our butt. And I just think he thought he just sort of had enough. And I promise you, he talked to the P.D. of America numerous times. Phil would not have done that unless he thought it was a last resort. And he talked to them over and over again about creating some sort of process and being a part of it and saying, hey, we kind of understand who we are and what we need. And let's create a pathway for each captain to be a part of it beforehand because it is a daunting thing to be a captain of of a rider-cruple like that or any team event. I mean there was so much that goes into it

to just be to do it one time and to get it right would be so hard and you know I mean I think Phil just said you know what I got to do it I got it and I know he told us and told me he's like, I'm going to do it. And it could be uncomfortable, but sometimes uncomfortable is exactly what you need in a lot of different situations. And that's just what we need to make a little bit of a change. In no way did I think he meant any disrespect to Tom Watson, because I think all of us deeply respect Tom for the kind of person he is and the player he is and a guy. I mean, it wasn't, it was more about the process than it was really about the individual. Yeah, it's almost like it was directed at the PJ of America in a way of like the time came in and did what Tom was going to do, right?

I mean, that's what he was brought in to do. So it's not his fault in any way, but like, hey, looking at this from, you know, just in talking with even some people that are involved in the process of, you know, I'm like, hey, why did this decision get made in the answer is, well, he just, you know, he had the most experience.

And I just wanna challenge that. I wanna be like, man, I don't, is that, is that what is constitutes a great leader, or the right process or the person that's going to be the best in touch with these players and all these things that, you know, for a long time, it was you had to be a major champion to be a captain of one of these teams. And I just, I do even have to be a golf guy to be a captain of one of these teams. And I just, I, I find the US's process improved, but still I don't know if it's all the way there in terms of

Setting the team up to play their best possible golf because it still seems like a very ceremonial You know honor that's given to people to be captains of these teams But if we're really trying to win them, are we following the process that leads to the most success? Yeah, and I think that's what Phil's message was at that time was your has a plan, and they have a plan of attack. And that's what we were, it felt like, and what it really seemed like we were sort of lacking was they have a process in what they're doing. And you can't tell me that they're just better than us and they're beating us, but they feel so comfortable with what they're doing.

And it's just you can see in their play, they just have no doubt about what they're doing when they get there. Like it's already done. And I think the hardest part for us as players was, we didn't know what still was going on who we were playing with. Going into like I said I didn't know I was playing with Jim until Saturday afternoon and I was like you know that's a frustrating thing for a player and changes need to be made and at some point

someone's got to speak up and it's okay to be uncomfortable as I sound that's how things to speak up and it's okay to be uncomfortable. As I sound, that's how things get done. And Phil's, and Phil's, the great thing with Phil is he has so much respect with all the players and the PJ of America and the PJ of Tore that when he said something, it has weight. And we all supported him in that way. And he has the guts, you know, and we've seen it through time. He has the guts to go out there and put himself out there and I think we all really respected him for that because he wants to win and he wants to compete. So let's go to the 2010 rider cup and we're not going to zoom straight to the end. I think everything from that week can kind of get dumbed down into how it ended, but what was that week like? A lot of, I really, weirdly enjoyed going back and watching the highlights from that, not

to see the lavender sweaters or whatever those were. But, I mean, it was a wild week, whether wise, starts and stops, just pure delays. They changed the whole format of the event, mid event, and you finished on a Monday. What do you remember about all that? Yeah, chaos. It felt a little bit like chaos. mid event and you finish on a Monday. What do you remember about all that? Yeah, chaos. It felt a little bit like chaos. Yeah, there was no flow to the week at all, right? The weather was so rough.

I remember, gosh, remember the start, like it was just pouring down rain and it was like, what do we do? Like this is just a disaster. This is no energy of what you think of a rider cup is gonna be like. It was a pretty cool course, but it was, you know, it was just a mess. It just felt chaotic all week.

And it was hard to get a hold of what we were doing. And the course was just completely soaked. And I felt like we played it up all week. It was just kind of wild. It just, it definitely didn't have a great flow to it. So it was just kind of challenging that way. And so when singles pairings come out, how do you end up in the spot that you're in?

Do you know immediately like, hey, this could come down to me? When did you start to realize that things were kind of bubbling up to potentially come down to, your match being the deciding match. And then I want to set the scene for how we get to the very end as well. But before we get there, you know, how did you, how did you end up in that spot? I can't say I remember how, I just remember that we were down and we needed to

front load the team and we really needed a lot of points early because it could get away from us. The first probably six or eight matches. I don't know. I think I was maybe second to last. I definitely wasn't last, but somewhere around there. And so it was really strange playing because everybody was already like all the fans are out there. There's like not many people really following us because everyone's watching, you know, the big names or whatever. But even even then like the match,

you don't really know when the match is going to end and how things are going to turn out. And so it was, you're just kind of playing in that way by ourselves, but it was, it was not a whole lot of like fanfare. You were just sort of in the background for a really long time, and then almost sudden it was like, bang, here it is. You look at the scoreboard and it's coming down to this match. You were out last. You were the 12th. I was. I pulled out. You and you and G Mac were 12th. And so, well, I think this is extremely important. And almost, I'm wondering if you think this has lost to history that, you know, when you guys get to the 17th hole, you needed to win the last two holes. You know, it wasn't, yeah, it would, I would say we're looking at maybe

a 15% probability here at the highest. I don't, I didn't do the math on that, but that's my estimation. I just want that noted because I feel like, I guess, do you feel like that part gets lost to history? And I know it doesn't make what happened after that probably any easier, but, does that, does that, you know, do you take any solace in that to say like you were battling an uphill climb at that moment to begin with? Yeah, I remember he made a great birdie on 16. Right.

16 was a pretty good challenging hole. And, um, GMAC, the, you know, the gamer and the putter that he is rolled in a beautiful pod. I remember it crept in on the low end. Like it could have gone the other way. Yeah, it was um it was a good old good bird. I knew I was in trouble at that point. So um yeah, we were not we were not in good position at going into 17 for sure. It's not I remember getting a ton of texts from people you know, A'singer texted me right after that ad and Peter Jackson people

I knew and they were like, hey, this happens to you because you've got big shoulders and you can take it. And what you forget is that being in that situation means you did something right. And you did something right for a long time. So I felt proud. I love, it was so great to be in that. It was so fun even though as emotionally draining it was and as hard as it was

G-Mac is such a gentleman. I have so much love for that guy. It's so much respect for him to go in a battle with him in that situation was was a lot of fun and You know, it was it was a sad moment and it was tough, but I was playing the president's cup with a runner cup in front of millions of people. That's pretty cool. That's not an experience that losing something doesn't mean you lost. It just meant it wasn't your day. And I don't know. I just felt like I said, you put so much work into that to leave upset or sad about it would be of complete,

it would be missing the point. Did you feel like you, how do you feel like you were treated after that? Did you feel like most people were understanding in terms of golf fans? I'm sure your peers were obviously understanding. I just look at that image before you hit that chip of all those people on that hill. You're the only match out there and a, a, a, a pressure that you cannot simulate in anything that you do ever in your

life. And I'm just wondering kind of what you, if you felt more support or blame after that from, from golf fans or whatnot, and how you, how you, how you dealt with all that, it sounds like it sounds like very well from what you just said, but I'm wondering what you remember feeling in those moments. No, I think there's always going to be a small percentage of people who can't wait to. I'm just going to Twitter wasn't around, and social media wasn't around as prevalent back then, but no, I think everyone, I know the team. Yes, I remember getting into the locker room, and I'm just like, I know the team,

yes, I remember getting into the locker room, and I'm just like, it's so heavy. That week is, I remember Jeff Olgovie said, about playing the president's cup, he said, it's the most fun you're gonna have, ever gonna have until you realize you're gonna lose. And then he said, then it just gets so heavy on you. You're like, oh crap, we lost.

And so those weeks are so fun. You're amongst the best players in the world and when you lose and lose in such a dramatic way, it's so heavy. It felt like it just like an avalanche. But the guys on the team were so great. And they, everyone on the them came up to me afterwards and it was like, hey, we lost it. We came here as a team. We lost this team. This is not something,

this is not a burden you carry around. So, you know, and I think guys always took so much offense to the fact that Europe was a better team than us. And we never really joined up together. And it was that bothered us. And that was so ridiculous. We were just as much a unit as they were. And we bonded so incredibly well that week that it's, it I never felt like any shame or anything out there because I think people know that it's a game.

And it's, you know, it goes your way and sometimes it doesn't. And not only that, after it happens, you are, the wound is so incredibly fresh and you're asked to go up, you know, and face the media and discuss what just happened. And I remember, I remember watching that, and I don't know how you look back on that moment, but as a sports fan, I remember just being like,

honestly, everything about this moment is what I love about golf, I remember just being like, honestly, everything about this moment is what I love about golf and sports. Like that, you know, that this person had to be, be asked this question and put on this world stage and it didn't go his way. And it means a ton to him to it, for it to have not gone his way. And he is showing that in front of the world. And I, did you, did you feel that sentiment from a lot of people that you know, obviously it's a, I don't know, what do you feel when you go back or whenever you see highlights

or think about that moment of having to kind of display that emotion in front of the world? Yeah, I think the courage you, you know, you have to do the, the courage you have to show and play golf for a living and do anything in front of people and expose yourself and be vulnerable like that is really challenging. Not a lot of people want to be exposed like that. And it was very humbling for me to be a part of that. And those are the moments that make you stronger, right? It might be a cliche, but it's so true. When you get under us like that in a way, it does make you stronger. And it does make you realize

how great it was. And like I said, you work so hard to be a part of that team. And to have a great, to have a struggle and a fight and a great, to compete against a great, a bunch of great players. You can't leave there being feeling sad or sorry for yourself because that's just missing the point. And you can't let it define you either, which you definitely, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, like that and think that was a bad thing, right? That's where you want to be. That's an opportunity to be a part, to have great success, you're

going to have to risk failure. If you never really put it out there, then you have nowhere to fall. But it was all, I just enjoyed the team event so much as everyone says, once you become part of one, you want to become a part of all of them, just because it's so fun to be in a group like that. And for that many days that you are one event, one common goal, and it's just so much fun. Well, Pro Golf is lonely, and team golf is the opposite of lonely. It's the one time where you are on the same team as a lot of people. That's obvious, but you're all together on the same mission.

Whereas you play a major championship and you're out there with your buddies in that major championship, but when you all go separate ways that night and you're all going out trying to accomplish different goals the next day. So to get the one week a year that you get a totally different goal and energy around it, there's a reason why guys rave about it so much I would have to imagine. It's so fun, it's so cool, it's a throwback to being in college and not being thinking about yourself and you're really thinking about each other and having a common goal. It's really cool.

This is a tricky question and always tough to, this is one that's put on the spot and hard to come up with an answer with something like this. But if I was to come up with a career comp for you, who would it be? Six PGA Tour wins, a bunch of US team events, seven straight tour championships, two WGCs, no majors. What's your career comp would you say? Oh wow. I came up with one name last night that it kind of surprised me when I came up with it, you see is no majors. What's your career comp would you say? Oh wow. I came up with one name last night that it kind of surprised me when I came up with it,

but I'm wondering if you have one that comes up to top of your head. I can't, I can't. I can't want to hear yours. I said Ricky Fowler. And I know Ricky's got a lot of golf ahead of him and whatnot, but the records are kind of surprisingly similar there. Yeah, I think that's a lot of top 10s, a lot of top 25s. Yeah, I think,

yeah, I was thinking, I was probably thinking further back than that when I joined the tour. Well, that'd be a question I really have to think about. Yeah, it's getting back to me on that one, but that's an interesting, it's an's an interesting kind of game to play. It is. It is. So you talked about being in pressure situations and wanting to be there and whatnot. What's it like playing a playoff, 2011 Torch Championship, a playoff for essentially $10 million.

How does that compare to other pressure you've played under, both Ryder Cup and other tour events. And, you know, is that an amount of money that, you know, changes that's almost like kind of impossible to ignore as you're playing? Yeah, it's that, you know, at that time the FedEx Cup was, you know, it's it's mold over time. Yeah, and it was, because I remember playing the final round and I just kind of I gave myself a thought and a feeling that that day was like, you know what? I'm going to go out there and play golf and I'm just not going to react to anything.

I'm well, anything negative. I'm just going to go out there and whatever happens happens when it's positive, I'm going to enjoy it, but I'm just going to be in the moment. I'm going to do everything I can just to be in the moment because there's so much that could happen with where you finish and where you finish in the, in the tournament and where you finish in the FedEx. It was so, it was just all over the place in, because were you finished,

you know, I could have won that week, but not win FedEx. And so it was just so inconsistent and it was all over the place. And so when I was playing, I just was playing to win the tournament and play the best I could. And until we, you know, I remember, I remember after it was over and Bill won. He didn't even know he was playing for the FedExCAP,

was what he said. He was like, I didn't even, I thought we were just playing for the tournament because that's all complicated it was. And it was kind of hard to understand how each of us, because I remember I didn't win, lost the playup, and I finished like seventh in the FedEx Cup points. But if I won the tournament, I would have won the FedEx. So it was, had that big a drastic change to it.

So it was, it was very difficult to figure out and at the time, so it was, luckily, it was so out there, you just didn't even worry about it. You were really, I knew, I knew about it when we were in the playoffs, but before and I didn't, I, it was hard to keep track of. Well, you know, I meant to ask this when you mentioned you were going to maybe play, you talked about AK with a 2018. Do you see AK around Dallas? Do you have a much relationship

with him and what's, we try to get any info we can on them and there's just not much out there. No, I saw, you know, it's kind of like an alien. And he's kind of like a UFO. You think you saw it, but you're not really quite sure. You hear stories, but you can't quite confirm. But I know I saw Ryan Hibble, who's the Oklahoma and it's golf coach and he saw him not too long ago. I know he spends a little time in Dallas, but he spends a lot of time in LA.

So I don't know. I have not talked to him or heard of him. My agent was his agent when he played and he kind of hears whispers about worries, but he's just living life at this point. Well, I wanna talk a little bit about Sean Foley and kind of set the scene for the listeners for the timeline of you guys working together, the successes you had together

and why he works so well for you. Because I feel like his reputation among golf fans, it's mixed, but I, there has to be a disconnect between, you know, the perception, you know, that some people have of him as a coach and why so many pros have trusted him with their swing. So how would you describe your, your experience working with Sean Foley? Well, it's, it's fantastic. I, I've always enjoyed being around him and talking to him and, uh, we've had incredible success and, you know, I think we'll have more.

Um, you know, he's, he's, he's, he is a he is a true student of the swing. He spent hours and hours and hours in Canada giving lessons over and over and over again in trying to find it, you know, find the answer, find the reasons. And he spent a ton of time with guys from Trackman and the biomechanics people. He goes above and beyond to try to figure out how he can be the best golf coach he can be from a swing perspective, from a psychological perspective and figure out how can I best help the players be their very best. It's a very challenging thing to be a golf coach because it's very hard to get in the mind of a player and what they feel. He can see it. Any golf coach can kind of see things, but it is truly amazing that one player can go to five different

coaches, get different opinions about what to do, but they can all show you the same image and say, this is what I want, but they'll all show you different ways to get there. I think it's interesting when I haven't been to a golf coach who hasn't had a picture of Hogan swing somewhere in their house and where they teach, they're like, this is the swing we want to, this is the goat right here, Ben Hogan. Every swing teacher looks at that and sees something different. Teaching is very, very challenging. I think Sean came out as like the biomechanic guy and the technology guy. Big words, but that's just him. That's just kind of who he is and how he works.

But he sees it very, very well and it's worked tirelessly at trying to figure out how to make the swing simple and almost come up with a method that isn't really a method, but be able to manipulate it to where the swing is instinctive and as you know, we've talked about a lot is almost reactive and not trying to put it somewhere, but it's reacting the right way and you're incentivized to do the right things and then how do we get to these certain positions? So It's it's very challenging being a golf coach, but he put the ton of work in to be the very best

that he can be at multiple disciplines to help the player just play his very, very best. I'm not sure how to ask this question, but the balance between being technical and trusting a golf swing, How do you find that? And I imagine the more you're kind of struggling with a golf swing, the harder it is to not get technical, you're trying to, and almost all, you know,

guarantee, there's a technical issue when things are not going right, that you need to get in touch with, you need to figure it out, yet your best golf is gonna be played when you're probably not thinking technically on the golf course. How is that kind of relationship between, you know, trusting a swing and getting very technical, best golf is going to be played when you're probably not thinking technically on the golf course. How is that kind of relationship between trusting a swing and getting very technical, evolved

over the course of your career and how are you dealing with that now? Usually, anyone that I've talked to about playing my best, they always talk about the zone. How do you get in the zone? How do you just be quiet, sort of have a quiet mind and see just what you want to do? There's always a lot of steps to that. Every player has a different pre-shot routine and a different methods to how they feel comfortable, right?

Because you're trying to get comfortable with what you're doing. And sometimes like a lot of swing thoughts, sometimes don't have very many, you know. I think you look at Bryson how he goes about it and you look at Dustin, how he goes about it. Dustin, you can just tell it's very fluid. He sees it, he reacts to it. Bryce, and I don't know what he's thinking when he's hitting a shot, but I think he loves to think about it

and take out variables on every swing. And he wants to know everything about everything, and it's kind of fun playing with different players because you can see that how they go about it is so different. As I talked about with Sean, I have to get my swing to a place where I'm incentivized and it's very reactionary

to where I just do it. And so for me, getting the backswing into a good position to where the downswing, which takes no time at all, it's just my body and the club are completely synced and doing the right thing to where when I hit the shot, I don't really feel too much in my hands. And I just go through it.

And I feel like there's very, very little happening. But I have a really good backswing. I have to have a lot of time. I can't be in a hurry to get to the right place. And then from there, the downswing takes no time at all. So there's no time to think or fix anything. It's amazing when I've ever talked to Ty here, when he's picking with Sean, how much he feels in the hands.

I don't consider him a real hazy player, but he feels everything with his hands. And then that's this connection between his body and the club, right? It's obvious, but he can really, it's amazing what he can do with just that little feel. Like, he's so feeling oriented. It's really, it feels like you're talking to an artist. Like he can just, he has another sense when it comes to the swing. And so he can really feel it and understand it and does a lot through his hands, even though it doesn't really look like it.

So anytime a player is not thinking, and it can just react, especially in press or situations, that's a great thing. I think I have the answer to this based on the passion in which you've answered pretty much every question I've asked so far. But after a few years of struggling, I'm wondering, does golf still bring you joy? If I just asked it, open like that, does golf bring you joy? Does it, if I just asked it, open like that, does golf bring you joy? What would your answer be?

I mean, I enjoy it. I wish I was playing better. But you mentioned that you enjoying the pursuit and that you're on, right? You go on working on things, you still enjoy that. So I think I took that to say that you do, it does still bring you joy, even if the results on the course aren't great.

I do enjoy the feeling of a good shot and feeling like you're gaining on it, but it is still a result-based business. Like I go out to practice to go play well. And when you don't play well, it's still a kick in the teeth. It doesn't feel good. And so it's still very challenging some tournament weeks,

especially when you play a bunch in a row, it is daunting to go into the next day because the only experience you have is a little bit of frustration. So it's very hard to, every day. The challenge for me is to just it today has nothing to do with yesterday in terms of results and what's going to happen because today is brand new and I don't know what's going to happen. But if I don't think that good things are going to happen, then they won't. So it's that's tournament golf and that's the challenge of a career

when it's not going great, turning that around because I do feel like physically, I can do anything. You know, Preston De Chambre put on 30 pounds and he's hitting it like a long drive guy. Physically you can do anything. You really can, but you can't lose that belief because once you lose that, the physical part really is irrelevant. And you really got to start putting in that mental time of, I can do this. I can, you know, it's like looking in the mirror as silly as the sounds, but you've got to pump that into your brain, into your body.

Hey, I can do anything. I really can't. This isn't Tiger Woods and Bryson. They're not magicians. They're not waving their wand. They just put in the work and they've found a way to where they feel they're very best and they go out and do it and they play with complete confidence and without fear. So there's nothing stopping me.

I just got to keep doing it and keep grinding and take, it's definitely a transition from taking all the good swing stuff that I'm doing that do feel like it's getting better. And I've gotta start turning that into on the core success. And I believe I can do it because I don't think that there's anything

stopping me except myself. Hmm. Wow. That, my next question was gonna be, like do you honestly and truly believe that you can be as good as you once were? And it sounds like if you look in the mid, you really truly, and you're not just telling yourself that you actually really do believe that. I 100% do.

I really, really do. I do feel like I can, I look, I've looked a lot of like old swings of mind because it isn't, you know, I want to find what I did well back then and still improve off of that. And I was, I had an okay short game, but I want to be better than that. I want it to be better and it's challenging. But I'm like, you know, I can do that. It's just a physical thing. There's nothing stopping you from being great.

It's like Steph Curry. There's nothing stopping him from being a two, six, three guy in a sport where size and physical talent and prowess matter. And he's doing it with skills and work and shooting a bunch of threes and changing the game. There's nothing stopping any player from doing that, you know, like everyone talks about golfers getting bigger and stronger. And Colin and Mark Kala, he's not six four. He's not bombing at 330 yards, even though he hits it playing far, but he plays golf his way and it's super successful

and he's gonna be successful. So you gotta believe and you gotta know what you can do well and go out and try to do that every day. I found a particular quote from you interesting. It was a 2018 interview and I forget where I pulled this from the apologies for that, but you said that you hadn't had many struggles in your life and this was foreign territory to you. I just found that interesting because you're a fast success in the game of golf and didn't sound like there was much turmoil off the course

really in your life to this point. I I just found that perspective interesting of, you know, you know, not having had struggles in your life until your golf game was kind of wandering in a different direction. Yeah, I said, I'm an only child. I've got two amazing parents who were divorced. I was supported from a young age into anything I wanted to do. I had great lessons. I was supported from a young age into anything I wanted to do. I had great lessons. I was able to see Tom Sargent in California when I was just starting to play golf. I moved to Texas and I saw Randy Smith who's an incredible teacher. In Dallas, stability at home, really anything my dad and mom would do anything I

didn't even ask for they would just do it because they thought it would help me become a better golfer Traveled all around with tournaments like you couldn't have a better life than I did as a kid and it better opportunities I mean just I'm sure there is but like you know, it was pretty awesome. It was pretty flawless Strong a little bit from college kind kind of like my freshman second semester to my when I transferred to Oklahoma State. There was a little tough time there. I just wasn't comfortable at USC and I transferred it and all of a sudden being around coach holder in the Oklahoma State program

really shifting me into high gear to being a great player. And he, you know, holder was a huge part of my success there and turning me into a gear to being a great player. And he, you know, hold there was a huge part of my success there and turning me into a better PJ tour player. And then like I said, it's, you know, when you talk about, when I think what I was talking about was real struggle and real turmoil,

like I had everything you had won in life. There's no, and I think what I was getting at was like, no one needs to feel sad for me that my career hasn't gone great. That's, I'm like, no one needs to feel sad for me that my career hasn't gone great. That's, I'm not, no one needs to worry about me. I don't think anyone is, but I just, I think I was just making the point was, I've had a great life and a great career.

And I do believe that I can still go play great golf, moving forward in this time that it's just a reality that golf is hard. And any of the successes that I've had and these players have had today is earned. It is 100% earned and everything those guys get is because they work their butt off to get it and that's for anyone's successes

in any sport or anything in life. Yeah, well, doing interviews, I kind of listen for the little one to two minute clips that we'll share on social to try to get people to listen. You gave them like 10 of them. I don't even know what we're gonna pick for this, but I were gonna let you out because I'm gonna demand that you come back

on the pod at some point in the future. But we got, I think we've covered pretty much everything except for, you're the first one from this group that we've ever had on the podcast. So I finally get to ask about it. Oh boy. The golf boys. What the hell was that?

It's a great question. I just remember it manifested from, it was fun, I think it manifested from Ben Crane and Roy Savitini having their, their slow place spat, a teeny, having their, you know, slow place spat, a congressional, honestly. I think that people were like, you know, they kind of rallied around Ben a little bit

and because they felt so bad for him, that Roy did that and then it led, I think Ben did some little videos online at the time and got some fun feedback. I could be wrong, I don't want it, but I just remember Ben gaining some notoriety and if you know Ben, he's got, she is the most positive fun guy you'd ever want to meet. I love him so much. And it just kind of like started to grow a little bit and then Bababa Ricky just came on tour and Bubba was kind of Becoming a name and you know, I was like yeah, I do something and so we were all kind of buddies and played a lot and it was like

We'll do something musical. I don't know how the music thing came about, but it just You know, we did the first one and I'm so ridiculous and silly and I just remember doing it like, this is like Thomas could be, I don't know what's happening. And then we did a second one for some silly reason. But, you know, we tried to create a charity aspect to it and it, and we did and it was kind of fun that way. I think farmers the first time don't, I mean, they had so many views that, you know, a lot went to the, I think Framers charity and then we try to do it another time and like any bands, it's for, you know, separate entities trying to figure out how to make this work the best way and it

just became like too much to handle, but it was fun at the time and it created a following, oh my gosh, for the time everywhere we went, golf boys, golf boys, man, it's a golf boy. It was so funny. We were like, this is crazy. I mean, for something so silly and ridiculous to everything that happened since for quite a few years afterwards was pretty funny.

Even on Twitter today, people are like, during the pandemic, they were like, golf boys threw it, perfect time to go. Got to get that. Release it, they were like, golf boys through it, perfect time to go. Got to get that together. Release it, and we were like, oh, and nobody, none of us have any interest in doing it. Just funny, it was kind of that. That was like social media before social media, right?

Like some weird video craze that has taken off, right? So that's just kind of what happens. Awesome. Well, hey, man, really, really appreciate the time and insights. This has been fascinating. It's lived up to everything I'd hoped it would be, but would love to have you back sometime.

And I know a lot of people will be following your journey. You're come back here, round by round. And we really, really appreciate the time and insight. Hey, I love what you guys do. It's an absolute pleasure for me. Keep doing what you guys are doing. It's it's it's fun and fascinating. I think you guys add something to golf that is sorely needed.

You know, golf is a great game. It's fun. It should be fun. And I just I love what you guys do. And I know you guys are going to or keep pressuring it. Awesome. Thanks. I don't really appreciate the time. Thank you. It's a great club.

Be the right club today. That's better than most. How about him? That is better than most. Better than most. Better than most. Better than most.